Robber’s charter

Written By: - Date published: 10:17 am, August 3rd, 2012 - 117 comments
Categories: education - Tags:

So, the Nats want unqualified teachers teaching the country’s most disadvantaged kids in charter schools. This is meant to close the gap with rich kids. Oddly, private schools opt for trained teachers. Also, oddly, it was only 2 months ago that the Nats were saying they wanted all teachers to have post-grad qualifications. Why the back-flip? It’s all about that well known route to economic and social success: driving down teachers’ wages.

Corrupt minister John Banks oddly talked about retired maths university professors and SAS veterans playing at being teacher. As if, you know, simultaneously managing 30 children and somehow getting them to learn is something that anyone can do without any training if they have a crack.

It’s part of a long history of the Right denigrating teaching.

There’s only really one reason why the Right is constantly attacking the status of teachers. It’s that education is a major area of government spending and teachers’ wages are the lion’s share of the education budget. If the fat elite want to pay less tax, then they need less government spending. Paying teachers less is one route to that (kicking poor families off benefits is another). Unqualified teachers in charter schools, which have the power to set their own pay rates and to run for a profit, is all part of driving teachers’ pay down.

Viewed through this prism, the move to make teachers gain post-grad qualifications has a twisted logic. See, most of us saw that and said ‘ah, that’ll raise the quality and status of teachers a la Finland, the best education system in the world – a surprisingly good move from National’. But we were confused when National simultaneously made getting a post-graduate qualification harder by making it so you can’t get a student allowance.

Now, it all makes sense. Raise the bar for teachers to get qualified, make it more expensive. Allow profit-taking private operators of charter schools to hire unqualified staff on the cheap. Juke the stats so that the charter schools appear to be doing well (typically, they cherry-pick students from the state system). And bingo! You’ve got fewer wannabe teachers getting qualified and, instead, heading into charter schools at lower wages.

Next step: replacing surgeons with tradies.

117 comments on “Robber’s charter ”

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  1. Tom Gould 1
    3 August 2012 at 10:37 am

    Who needs qualified registered teachers to educated poor kids anyway? Isn’t it all a waste of money, really? How else will we expand our ‘low wage’ competitive advantage? It’s just common sense, to a Tory.

    • aerobubble 1.1
      6 August 2012 at 10:14 am

      I think this misses the point. National Standards are a hot issue, that’s why right wing governments
      choose to elevate the issue. Second, post-grads teachers I believe was in a response to a glut of new
      teaching graduates despite a drop off in student numbers. Third, attacking the tail is worthy, even if
      we all know National prescription won’t work and is merely welfare for the freak fringe of right wing
      politics. The problem is most people don’t believe it will effect them, and are taught from an early
      age to accept authority when they don’t have the facts, even when its so obvious just politics to
      anyone who watches this crap play out. If parents are beating their kids, starving them, then why wouldn’t they also want them to go to one of these Charter Schools, some parent just believe that
      life is hard and their kids should suck it up. One things for sure, Key isn’t finished laying the
      education card, messing with your kids education, because it gets him votes.

      For me education disestablishment, with technology the way it is, schools are so costly, why we
      don’t just end the whole industry, and remove the duty of government to force kids into
      institutionalize state hands, Charter Schools are premised on poor performance, and so
      justify every parent look to removing the state from the process entirely.

  2. Carol 2
    3 August 2012 at 10:39 am

    I think driving down teacher’s wages, and undermining the unions are all part of the NAct education agenda. But also, as I’ve argued here:

    http://thestandard.org.nz/incoherent-education-policy/comment-page-1/#comment-501876

    I think it’s part of a broader philosophy to develop an authoritarian education system that stifles critical thinking, and teachers to a narrow range of skills on tests. It includes increasing the numbers of teachers who have little in-depth understanding of education that helps democracy to thrive. It increases the numbers of submissive teachers who will follow orders, and teach to tests in an authoritarian regime.

    It replaces a broad education with a narrow training in skills.

    • Dr Terry 2.1
      3 August 2012 at 12:06 pm

      The Tories dread creating an intelligent populace (as people might be disobedient, and dare to think for themselves. Somewhat like the Vatican).

      • Gosman 2.1.1
        3 August 2012 at 12:14 pm

        I suggest you have no evidence for this and it is merely your extremely biased opinion.

        • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1
          3 August 2012 at 12:59 pm

          Charter schools with unqualified teachers is the evidence.

        • mike e 2.1.1.2
          3 August 2012 at 1:08 pm

          Loading teachers up with more irrelevant paper work so they have less time to teach.
          National standards.

        • OneTrack 2.1.1.3
          3 August 2012 at 8:22 pm

          We are happy with the current 20% failure rate so there is no need to try anything different. We’re teachers, trust us, we know what we are doing.

          • Colonial Viper 2.1.1.3.1
            3 August 2012 at 10:03 pm

            Yes OneTrack, because using unqualified teachers can’t possibly bring in worse results than your made up statistics.

            Hey dude, did you know that 50% of students are below average? It’s a travesty.

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.3.2
            3 August 2012 at 10:14 pm

            I’m more likely to trust the teachers than this government.

            BTW, it’s not a 20% failure rate. Please stop spreading NACTs lies.

          • Georgecom 2.1.1.3.3
            3 August 2012 at 10:51 pm

            Trust teachers to know something about education, or John Banks?

            Teachers don’t know everything about education, but they do know more than John Banks.

            Know who’d I’d go to for advice on education.

    • often puzzled 2.2
      3 August 2012 at 8:14 pm

      You are possibly right but it seems like this mad Govt is saying ‘we despise the poor, bludgers, unemployed anybody that makes ‘choices contrary to our view of the world’ . ‘these people’ are a blot on our landscape! Let’s get ride of them. Let’s play the ‘Pilate Game’ and wash our hands of any responsibility to these ‘dreadful people’. Does it really matter if their education is poor as they are underachievers anyway. And what does it matter if the family breaks up they don’t need any counselling or legal advice, they are already disfunctional. They just need to ring an 0800 number for Community Law advice, in fact they can spend all day on the phone ringing 0800 numbers waiting for help from numerous agencies until there’s no more money to top up their phones. Oh what bliss the Govt says! We can cut call centres because the number of users is so greatly reduced. And oh yes many are fading away to nothing because of the poor quality food packets from supermarkets, but that’s OK certain people have no value anyway.

      This government is in cuckoo land! I dispise its ideological nonsense, we must work together to be rid of them.

  3. Steve 3
    3 August 2012 at 10:40 am

    Just been discussing this same issue over a cup of warm sick this morning, conclusion after heated ranting. Seeing the far Right has enabled it, we begin work on the Karl Marx Primary school charter this afternoon, wide range of class options, economics, polity, ideology.Fitness classes for the class war,hand to hand combat, bush survival skills. We won’t waste time with intermediate, but just a senior school, load of course options here. We think the right think it’s just their spectrum that will bother with charter schools. They got another thing coming. We are even prepared to set up in a Teepee with a dirt floor, but will have power and computers….mmm well done John Banks…thanks buddy.

    • Gosman 3.1
      3 August 2012 at 11:28 am

      Good idea. I look forward to this coming to fruition. It will be interesting, (and informative), to see who sends their kids to such a school. I suspect not many.

  4. Anne 4
    3 August 2012 at 10:56 am

    There’s only really one reason why the Right is constantly attacking the status of teachers. It’s that education is a major area of government spending and teachers’ wages are the lion’s share of the education budget.

    Nope, there’s two reasons.

    The second reason is: to reduce the overall standard of teaching in this country (they claim the opposite of course) and ultimately produce a dumbed down, acquiescent population – a majority underclass of poorly educated workers if you like – who will work for peanuts and do as they’re told.

    Both reasons tied into each other of course.

    Edit: it won’t work. There will be more violence, bloodshed from disaffected workers – just as has happened elsewhere in the world when this type of thinking has prevailed.

    • Pete George 4.1
      3 August 2012 at 11:10 am

      No, there’s a third reason – by dumbing down children more of them will grow up to be criminals, thus creating more business for private prisons.

      And a fourth reason – with bad education kids will grow up unable to work hard to make money for themselves so will have to resort to gambling, which will pay back Sky City for their donations.

      And in a cunning double whammy poorly educated people suffer from poor health – and they’re not smart enough to realise what hospitals can do to help them so the Government saves there too.

      • Gosman 4.1.1
        3 August 2012 at 11:13 am

        This is satirical I presume, unless someone has stolen your identity.

      • Gosman 4.1.2
        3 August 2012 at 11:15 am

        BTW this is starting to read like Monty Python’s Spanish inquisition sketch.

        “There is only one reason why the right is constantly attacking teachers. No, there are two reasons, Actually three reasons.”

        • Hayden 4.1.2.1
          3 August 2012 at 1:35 pm

          Actually, it’s not. The Spanish Inquisition lines are delivered solely by Michael Palin. the humour of the situation derives from his one-upping of himself, e.g., “Our chief weapon is surprise!… Surprise and fear… fear and surprise… Our two weapons are fear and surprise… and ruthless efficiency! Our three weapons are fear, and surprise, and ruthless efficiency…”

          Inversely, the reasons given above are suggested by EDD1E, Carol, Anne and Pete George trying to be funny.

          I bet you’re one of those people who pronounces “Python” with “on” rhyming with “john”. Aren’t you?

    • Gosman 4.2
      3 August 2012 at 11:12 am

      Where does the right formulate these polices in your mind? I have never seen any right wing think tank and or person advocating for the dumbing down of education.

      • Colonial Viper 4.2.1
        3 August 2012 at 11:22 am

        I have never seen any right wing think tank and or person advocating for the dumbing down of education.

        No, just advocating for the changes which will lead to the dumbing down of education

        • Gosman 4.2.1.1
          3 August 2012 at 11:26 am

          In your opinion. There is little evidence backing this view up. But you are entitled to believe in wacky conspiracy theories I suppose. Perhaps the right wing are secretly controlled by reptilian invaders from out of space and they are wanting to turn these schools in to fast food joints where the kids will be processed into human hamburgers.

          • Draco T Bastard 4.2.1.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 1:02 pm

            It’s not opinion. The research shows that the educational policies that NACT are putting in place make education worse.

          • Colonial Viper 4.2.1.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 1:07 pm

            gosman you really hate the children of the poor don’t you?

            Why don’t you advocate for what every Private School offers? Small class sizes, specialist teachers in music, drama, art. Highly qualified staff from top to bottom.

            Did you really think it would escape notice that the rich want the best education for their kids while serving up shit to the poor?

          • urban rascal 4.2.1.1.3
            3 August 2012 at 1:30 pm

            Quick, I’m running out of content to back my position. Better bring out the conspiracy theory/alien comparison to divert the debate. People will never pick up the complete curve ball it is and question the sanity of the commenter…….ffs.

      • Pascal's bookie 4.2.2
        3 August 2012 at 11:30 am

        Yep. Never ever seen right wingers denigrate academics, or teaching; or suggest that broadening the mind is a bad thing. Nope.

        It’s the lefties that hate on book learnin, and think that intellectuals aren’t part of the ‘real world’. No right winger would even countenance such a bizzare idea.

        • Gosman 4.2.2.1
          3 August 2012 at 12:16 pm

          Please provide evidence then of Right wingers stating broadening the mind is a bad thing.

          • Pascal's bookie 4.2.2.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 12:31 pm

            There is an entire industry of ‘universities’ in the US established so that right wingers can send their offspring to ‘higher learning’ institutions that will not expose them to ideas that might challenge their world view.

            It’s not secret Gos.

            Read all the illiterate crap that gets spouted about ‘cultural marxists’ indocrtinating the youth. What’s that all about?

            • McFlock 4.2.2.1.1.1
              3 August 2012 at 2:01 pm

              not to mention the focus on education as a source of “skills for the job market” rather than, oh, just thinking about shit. All that anti-intellectualist shite on e.g. fox, where “academic” is spat as an insult.

            • Gosman 4.2.2.1.1.2
              3 August 2012 at 2:12 pm

              So no evidence of anyone pushing this idea. This is just your interpretation of what these institutes are trying to do is it?

              • Pascal's bookie …
                3 August 2012 at 3:37 pm

                The existence of these outfits is evidence for the interpretation Gos. If you’ve got a better explanation for universities that require staff to sign agreements that they will not teach certain things, I’m all ears.

      • Macro 4.2.3
        3 August 2012 at 12:12 pm

        Then you obviously haven’t been looking very far. There are numerous examples of right wing propaganda for schools being published by so called “experts”. The Heartland efforts and Plimmers “Primary” on climate change being obvious examples of misinformation and anti – science aimed at fooling school children.

        • Gosman 4.2.3.1
          3 August 2012 at 12:19 pm

          Where is the evidence that Right wingers have decided to dumb down people? You might not like them giving what you regard as incorrect information, (heck even I will agree that some of the information provided by the Heartland institute is suspect), but that is not the same as stating they have a policy of dumbing down.

          • Colonial Viper 4.2.3.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 12:25 pm

            Dumb uninformed misinformed populace easy to control, appeal to their prejudices and base instincts. Fox news/Rupert Murdoch strategy.

          • Frank Macskasy 4.2.3.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 12:49 pm

            You mean, like, having untrained people teaching our children, Gosman?

            What do you think will happen? Honest answer, please.

            • Colonial Viper 4.2.3.1.2.1
              3 August 2012 at 1:00 pm

              There’s no evidence that teachers who know less will end up passing on less to their pupils. Or something.

            • Gosman 4.2.3.1.2.2
              3 August 2012 at 2:13 pm

              I can’yt be bothered answering your questions anymore Frank considering you don’t reciprocate. I will therefore be ignoring future questions from you.

          • Kotahi Tāne Huna 4.2.3.1.3
            3 August 2012 at 1:06 pm

            Gosman, the evidence isn’t that right wing people have decided to dumb people down. The evidence shows that low IQ is a gateway to right wing beliefs.

            • McFlock 4.2.3.1.3.1
              3 August 2012 at 2:07 pm

              Traditional right-wing thought is a marriage between one [defective] braincell and a brick. The liberal agenda of using multiple braincells to form a coherent thought is an attack on the institutions we hold dear, like child beating or guys wearing dresses who incite homophobia.

            • Gosman 4.2.3.1.3.2
              3 August 2012 at 2:14 pm

              That’s very poor evidence then.

              • Colonial Viper …
                3 August 2012 at 9:57 pm

                Gosman isn’t interested in evidence, he’s interested in sidelining discussion.

          • Macro 4.2.3.1.4
            3 August 2012 at 3:17 pm

            You really are incredibly thick Gosman, or are you just plain stupid!!! I’ve given you prime examples of attempts by the ultra right wing think tanks to misinform students. You don’t have to look very far to find them for yourself. If spreading deliberate misinformation and propaganda (especially propaganda based on anti-science) is not a deliberate attempt to dumb down the students, I don’t know what is..

            • Gosman 4.2.3.1.4.1
              3 August 2012 at 3:21 pm

              Yes, it is clear you don’t know what is. Glad we cleared that up.

              • Macro …
                3 August 2012 at 7:27 pm

                Hahaha
                What I can say with certainty is, that you don’t know what constitutes dumbing down, but that was obvious right from the start.

      • OneTrack 4.2.4
        3 August 2012 at 8:25 pm

        Gosman, this is obviously Crosby-Textor working with Simon Lush.

  5. captain hook 5
    3 August 2012 at 11:08 am

    and never forget the cadre inside the National Party who believe that they and only they know whats good for anyone else.
    Charter schools are now a vehicle for these deviants to wok out their kinks on kidz who can’t get away from them.

    • Gosman 5.1
      3 August 2012 at 11:10 am

      Why wouldn’t the kids be able to get away from them? Is there some sort of compulsion aspect to Charter Schools that has not been publicised?

      • Te Reo Putake 5.1.1
        3 August 2012 at 11:19 am

        Well, Pope Brian wants to run one, so yeah, I can see some compulsion there. I guess it’s also compulsory for me to fund them through my taxes, so yeah, again.

        • Gosman 5.1.1.1
          3 August 2012 at 11:24 am

          The point is no kids will be compelled to attend these schools by the Government. If Mr Tamaki decides to make this a condition of membership of his church then take it up with him. I see this as being no different though that the Catholic Church’s position in the past in regard to Catholic Schools.

          • Te Reo Putake 5.1.1.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 11:34 am

            So compulsion’s Ok, as long as it’s not the Government doing it? And I note you don’t make any comment about the compulsion of my (and your) taxes being used for this hairbrained scheme. Care to elaborate?

          • bbfloyd 5.1.1.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 12:49 pm

            young gossomar…. your ignorance of this subject is only surpassed by your supreme bigotry towards anything that you havn’t the intellect to grasp…. which seems to be just about anything that isn’t standing in a line going “rah rah rah”, and waving your pom poms every time a tory says something stupid….

            You must be getting very sore arms from all that pom pom waving, considering that tories hardly ever say anything sensible….

            Today is no exception…

          • mike e 5.1.1.1.3
            3 August 2012 at 1:00 pm

            Goose Catholic church schools had to offer religious free education when they all came into the state system .Religious study and prayer is voluntary now in integrated schools.
            I don’t see pyramid scheming Tamaki doing this as its part of his cult!
            Cultism is child abuse.

      • prism 5.1.2
        3 August 2012 at 11:41 am

        We can’t get away from you Gosman. ‘ Is there some sort of compulsion aspect ‘ to your constant contest of every thought that occurs here?

      • Frank Macskasy 5.1.3
        3 August 2012 at 12:46 pm

        Yes; they will be compulsorily using our taxes to pay for Charter Schools.

        Next question?

        • Gosman 5.1.3.1
          3 August 2012 at 1:59 pm

          The State cumpulsory uses my money for a number of things I don’t agree with. I’m sure it also uses your money for things you don’t believe in as well. Every three years we get to vote to try and alter this. It is called democracy Frank. It certainly isn’t an argument against funding Charter Schools.

          • mike e 5.1.3.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 2:12 pm

            It wouldn’t be so bad if Banks had come clean and put that policy forward at election time.
            But as Act has only <than 1% of the vote as a democracy we have the right to protest against a money wasting policy thats purely designed to break the teachers union.
            As in the US where political lackies promote these retarded policies such as Michelle Lee
            who was brought to the UK to promote such policies.
            She was outed and found to be part of a network who bullied and put false evidence in favour of charter schools.
            After a closer look at her dodgy figures she has been found to be corrupt.

          • OneTrack 5.1.3.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 8:29 pm

            We need to get beyond limited concepts like democracy.

    • OneTrack 5.2
      3 August 2012 at 8:46 pm

      And never forget the cadre inside the teacher’s unions, Labour and the Greens, who believe that they and only they know whats good for anyone else.
      Public schools are now a vehicle for these deviants to wok out their kinks on kidz who can’t get away from them.

      • Colonial Viper 5.2.1
        3 August 2012 at 10:07 pm

        How do you feel being so active in undermining education for NZ children? Is this what you dreamed your life to be? A parasite whose only real use is to dumb down the next generation?

        I want to see elite private schools pushed to take on unqualified teachers.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.2
        3 August 2012 at 10:22 pm

        And never forget the cadre inside the teacher’s unions, Labour and the Greens, who believe that they and only they know whats good for anyone else.

        Well, actually, that would be the ministry who do the research to find the best ways to teach and then propagate them out to the schools.

        Public schools are now a vehicle for these deviants to wok out their kinks on kidz who can’t get away from them.

        The real deviants are presently in government.

      • mike e 5.2.3
        3 August 2012 at 10:46 pm

        1track The education board is not frightened of closing school’s in NZ !
        No4 no4
        USA
        No 18 no18
        Rorte by rote of the right
        You’ll need a calculator to figure that out.

      • North 5.2.4
        4 August 2012 at 8:22 am

        Thanks for the contents of your RectalTrack OneTrack.

  6. prism 6
    3 August 2012 at 11:28 am

    Just a thought – politicians should all have done a full degree in political studies incorporating certain papers from social work, social policy and social history, and functional economics of the people if there is such a thing. I’m sick of these half-educated loonies with no vision going forward getting into parliament.

    And I’m not being sarcastic here. We need better educated leaders and by God we need to fight for them or we will only have God left as our hope. And I believe that God made us and gave us our attributes with some guidance about using them well, and then he/she said that we had to get on and live our lives using that God-given intelligence and guidance and wonder that we got to live at all!

    • Gosman 6.1
      3 August 2012 at 11:30 am

      How about you push for a group of people to be set up who will vet anybody who runs for political office to ensure they meet your ‘standards’. It could be like a centralised party beuracracy like the Chinese Communist party. Then elections can be held just to confirm the appointments of ‘right’ minded individuals.

      • mike e 6.1.1
        3 August 2012 at 1:04 pm

        You mean bribery and corruption that takes place in the Nactuf coalition is exactly what happens in the National party .
        The lobbiests and Donors have a bigger say than the general publics opinion National.
        Friends of the CCP Shipleys buses.

        • Gosman 6.1.1.1
          3 August 2012 at 2:00 pm

          I suggest you have no hard evidence for this view.

          • mike e 6.1.1.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 2:04 pm

            sorry wrong minded individuals

          • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 3:44 pm

            Gossie do you feel dirty running interference for elitist scum trying to dumb down the education of poor people?

            Did you notice they aren’t pushing rich private schools to take on unqualified teachers, but its ok for the poor kids to have unqualified teachers?

      • OneTrack 6.1.2
        3 August 2012 at 8:31 pm

        Sounds good doesn’t it. Train them to think the approved way.

        • Colonial Viper 6.1.2.1
          3 August 2012 at 10:00 pm

          At least training will be by suitably qualified individuals not Destiny Church disciples.

    • Draco T Bastard 6.2
      3 August 2012 at 12:00 pm

      …and functional economics of the people if there is such a thing.

      There isn’t. The only choice for economics at uni is the RWNJ BS of neo-liberalism and, as the GFC proved once again, that doesn’t work.

      We need better educated leaders

      No, we need a better educated populace that’s capable of making their own decisions based upon facts and a political system that then puts those decisions into play.

  7. Dr Terry 7
    3 August 2012 at 12:12 pm

    The country might never recover from the damage caused by this government or from what it is doing and intends still to do.

  8. indiana 8
    3 August 2012 at 12:44 pm

    OMG, there’s a guy outside my door right now with a gun and sign that says I MUST send my kids to the newly built charter school in my suburb…what happened to my freedom of choice?!!!

    • Frank Macskasy 8.1
      3 August 2012 at 12:47 pm

      What happened to your freedom of choice, Indiana, is that your taxes will be paying for Charter Schools. You have no choice in this matter.

      • indiana 8.1.1
        3 August 2012 at 1:06 pm

        I’m paying less taxes now, so how the government spends what they collect is of no consequence to me…its a bit like when I was taxed so heavily and the then government spent my taxes on a train set that I felt was a bad purchase…I had no say in that either.

        • mike e 8.1.1.1
          3 August 2012 at 1:18 pm

          Idiotana The train set cost less than one lane of an over priced motorway.
          So if the rail system went to the wall traffic jams in Auckland would bring it to a halt economic output would decline.
          Then around the country Milk processing would have to be cut severly more economic decline
          our roading network would cost many times more to maintain which we are already subsidizing.
          The road toll would go up.
          Naive is your thinking.
          We spend less on public transport than any other country in the OECD.
          Melbourne spends more than 10 times what we do.
          Perth spends more than 4 times what we do.

          • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 1:22 pm

            Its not like we want to catch up with Australia

          • indiana 8.1.1.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 1:40 pm

            mike e, you seem to have simply reacted to my comment.

            The question is about compulsion to send your kids to charter schools…I argue that you don’t have to…Frank argues that your taxes will spent compulsorly on charter schools without you having a say so…I countered by saying that was the same as the government buying assets, irrespective of their merit, where you don’t have say either.

            Take a deep breath dude.

            • mike e 8.1.1.1.2.1
              3 August 2012 at 2:30 pm

              The school system is the 4th best in the world a liitle more tweaking would make it the best if we follow the best and not the worst like your espousing.
              Air NZ was going bust so was kiwirail because of being asset stripped by rogues, that money could have been used to upgrade our rail network instead its made its way to Switzerland and the US.
              And us tax payers are having to find money to modernize it.Thanks to former minister of rail on John Banks,who also sold off a large chunk of Auckland airport for $300 million dollars that same chunk is now worth ! $1.5 billion.
              Now this same tosser is trying to foist another Fuck up on us.
              Banks is a compulsive liar saying 1 in 5 children are leaving school with no Qualification.
              Thats a lie its 1 in 7 that was ten years ago when it was 1 in 5 .
              Why try and fix something thats alright and replace it with a model that is failing.
              Banks is a total fuckwit.
              The only thing he can do is fuck things up.

          • OneTrack 8.1.1.1.3
            3 August 2012 at 8:49 pm

            The problem is the train set keeps costing more taxpayers money each year and still nobody wants to actually use it.

            • Colonial Viper 8.1.1.1.3.1
              3 August 2012 at 10:01 pm

              Rail is one of the most powerful civilising technologies of the western world, and it will be here long after the personal motor vehicle is ancient history.

  9. Pascal's bookie 9
    3 August 2012 at 1:01 pm

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/1028588777-majority-against-charter-schools-hiring-unqualified-teachers

    The UMR Research survey of 1000 New Zealanders found that 86 percent think that just like state schools, Charter schools should only be allowed to hire teachers who are properly qualified.

    It also found that 60 percent of people strongly agreed that if private companies are allowed to set up charter schools, there is a real risk that they will put making a profit ahead of children’s education.

    • Frank Macskasy 9.1
      3 August 2012 at 1:06 pm

      Hmmm, common sense beginning to prevail, Pascal…

      I can sense another back down imminent…

    • indiana 9.2
      3 August 2012 at 1:07 pm

      Fine, so don’t enrol your kids there.

      • mike e 9.2.1
        3 August 2012 at 1:20 pm

        The public schools my children attend have a better academic record than all of the private schools.
        Which wouldn’t be open if not for state funding.

      • Kotahi Tāne Huna 9.2.2
        3 August 2012 at 2:52 pm

        No, Indiana. What gives libertarian nitwits the right to deny their kids a first class education? We prosecute Christians who refuse to take their kids to the doctor; what’s the difference between that and forcing children into a second-rate education model to suit Mummy and Daddy’s brainless delusions?

        • Gosman 9.2.2.1
          3 August 2012 at 2:56 pm

          Ahhhhh…. scratch the surface and now we see the true colour of your totalitarian communitarian self. At least you are being honest about it.

          • McFlock 9.2.2.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 3:13 pm

            So education shouldn’t be compulsory for children then, Gos?
                   
            Because if it should be compulsory, you’re just as totalitarian and communitarian  as kth – it’s just a matter of flavour.
               
             

        • OneTrack 9.2.2.2
          3 August 2012 at 8:39 pm

          We already have 2nd rate non-public schools funded by the taxpayer – we just call them full-immersion schools. I don’t think they get the same education as a normal public school.

          • Colonial Viper 9.2.2.2.1
            3 August 2012 at 10:05 pm

            Then its time to give all public schools the same great pupil-student ratios as top private schools.

    • SomeSuch 9.3
      3 August 2012 at 1:11 pm

      Propaganda is working. Kudos Ian Leckie.

  10. Frank Macskasy 10
    3 August 2012 at 1:20 pm

    That’s a libertarian response, Indiana. It does not serve community interests. You may wish to have a look at this; fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2012/08/02/charter-schools-another-lie-from-john-banks/

    The evidence against Charter Schools is compelling.

    • Gosman 10.1
      3 August 2012 at 2:03 pm

      No it is not, as pointed out by The Economist article I provided and which you misrepresented.

      • McFlock 10.1.1
        3 August 2012 at 2:24 pm

        You mean the Economist article that you failed to read in detail?
                 
        Your support for this policy rests on two planks: charter schools work (massively varying results on that); and that they will be regulated and supervised competently by people who bungled asset sales so badly, or let privately-managed prisons fail to meet 50% of their targets and keep their contracts.
             
        Good luck with that.l  

        • Gosman 10.1.1.1
          3 August 2012 at 2:34 pm

          No, The Economist article that supports Charter Schools. Do you disagree that it supports Charter Schools?

          • Carol 10.1.1.1.1
            3 August 2012 at 3:00 pm

            🙄

            It’s like chatting with Eliza. Is there a human intelligence behind these posts?

            The Economist article has been critiqued, the gos_chat claims to be unsupported, and still you keep referring to it.

          • McFlock 10.1.1.1.2
            3 August 2012 at 3:03 pm

            I believe it is somewhat equivocal on the matter, if generally upbeat. Much more equivocal than you on the matter, anyway.
               
            It does point out that things can go horribly wrong if the implementing legislation is ill-considered. I therefore think you are particularly bold in your assertion that charter schools are a good idea, given who’s got the job of legislating them.
                   
            I await the graduate class of Tamaki’s density-school. It will probably end up teaching creationism and advanced witch-finding. 

      • mike e 10.1.2
        3 August 2012 at 2:41 pm

        Goose 17% of charter schools doing worse than public schools in the US thats 1in 5 doing worse goose your figures!
        Own goal again go to jail.

  11. outofbed 11
    3 August 2012 at 1:40 pm

    So a new ground breaking policy announced by those bright honest ministers Perata and Banks
    Fuck me their having a larf aren’t they? Have they changed April fools day to 3 Aug?
    It has zero chance of success ZERO

  12. tc 12
    3 August 2012 at 2:17 pm

    The thought that a cult like Destiny Church can grab taxpayers money to ‘educate’ their faithful is quite disturbing.

    Tamaki’s a nasty, homophobic bigot so pretty much ideal NACT party demographic so once again the targeting is clever and designed to shore up more support from the ideal NACT sycophant.

    No coincidence that the education ministers in both terms are some of the dimmest material available in Shonkeys dealing room only just capable of parrotting the slogans.

  13. the pink postman 13
    3 August 2012 at 3:44 pm

    I bet all the weirdos and child abusers are rubbing their hands with joy.
    And just watch the religious loonies getting into the queue..Then there is Bishop Brian. Those poor kids whose deluded parents will send tham to such places.

  14. Mel 14
    3 August 2012 at 6:09 pm

    In a confused daze the Nacts have gone from ranting about quality teachers as the ONLY factor in a child’s education to …….

    “Oh well its okay to pay unqualified people to do a teacher’s job – but only in poor areas.”

    On what planet is it okay to:

    a. Pay unqualified people to do a job they are not qualified for?

    b. Give public money to private enterprise to profit from children?

    The irony will be of course that the electrician called to fix the lighting will be required to be trained and registered.

    I find it unbelievable, incomprehensible, as well as indefensible. Has the Nact Government gone mad?

  15. captain hook 15
    3 August 2012 at 9:35 pm

    they have always been mad.
    this is just the latest manifestation of sublimated megalomania threatening to get out of control.