Should Parents and Teachers Defy the Government?
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- Date published:
4:02 pm, May 16th, 2020 - 66 comments
Categories: business, capitalism, child welfare, class, class war, covid-19, culture, Economy, Ethics, quality of life, schools, Social issues -
Tags: capitalism, children, covid-19, health
Why are parents being told to send their children back to school this Monday? Is it because the health and welfare of children is upper most in the governments mind? Maybe the psychological impact of a child losing social contact during their formative years is a thing the government’s worried about? Or maybe the government’s wringing its hands over children being denied the opportunity of an education?
No. I think not.
For weeks we’ve been fed the line that children are somehow magically equipped, such that the coronavirus will by pass them, or barely affect them, or/and anyway, they’re not really infectious.
When New Zealand’s Siouxie Wiles was asked whether children ought to be tested before returning to school a few weeks back, she responded that testing was
“…not a good use of our resources when there is so little evidence that children play a big role in the spread of Covid-19.”
Now. I’m guessing that Siouxie Wiles has become somewhat the unofficial official spokesperson or authority for New Zealand when it comes to Covid 19 – ie, she isn’t going to say a damned thing that contradicts or upsets government’s thinking.
That came at the end of an article in The Spin Off that essentially propagated the “magical children” myth – children rarely got infected and even if infected, would likely have only mild symptoms. There was a lot of numbers picked from various testing regimes that were presented at face value to underscore that comforting message.
Fast forward a few weeks, and reports of children being infected, but displaying symptoms different to “the norm” are bubbling to the surface. Pediatric multi-system inflammatory syndrome (PMIS), as the symptoms in children have been labeled, take, according to The Atlantic, “many weeks to manifest”.
In line with what has gone before, The Atlantic article goes on to reassure its readers that cases of PMIS are rare and that the effects tend to be mild (except for the children that die).
All of the above may be accurate enough, and there really may be very little cause for concern around covid 19 and children. Or, as a piece in The Guardian points out –
“…it is not yet clear whether [children] have a lower chance of catching Covid-19. Although fewer children have been picked up in national testing programmes, this could be due to fewer being tested. During the early phase of the epidemic in Europe, adult travellers played a dominant role in seeding infections, which also meant, purely for circumstantial reasons, that children would have played a less significant role in spreading infections.”
I think it’s entirely reasonable to harbour elements of doubt around the story we’re being told about children, their likelihood of infection and the odds that they can be infectious.
New Zealand remains at a level of lock-down. But what are we to make of ourselves as a society when we’re willing to expose our children to a potential threat in the wider environment before anyone else?
Last week, schools opened and parents could send their children if they chose to. One local school I know of normally has around 200 pupils and there has been one child in attendance. In other words, if the attendance rate at that school is even close to being indicative of attendance rates across the country, parents aren’t happy about sending their children to school yet. Regardless, this coming week, they’re being told to send their children back.
Why? Isn’t it normal to shield children from unnecessary danger or, out of all of us, expose them to potential risk last of all?
Well no. As Helen Clark might say “It’s about the economy stupid!”
Our politicians’ relationship with the idea of liberal capitalism is not unlike how a devotee might present offerings to their deity in the hope or belief that things will then be alright. The difference is that a devotee would not normally have to get the children “out of the way” and possibly into harms way to go about satisfying their religious wonts.
Just to be clear. Jacinda Ardern’s government did not, as popular belief would have it, act fast to shut down New Zealand in the face of coronavirus. They followed along somewhere around the middle of the herd, and as announced by Jacinda, would have allowed cruise ships to keep berthing at New Zealand ports until the end of March… if other countries hadn’t begun to lock down and so given them tacit permission to do what should already have been done. Luckily enough for all of us, the number of infected people in New Zealand at that time was less than in other countries.
And now with an idea of economy still at the forefront of their mind, are there those who shrug at the potential for a little human sacrifice when the prize is to be a place towards the front of the herd? There’s obviously been some thought put into calculating what potential price would be worth it – otherwise our children would not be being sent back into the wider environment first, so that the working class can get back to their jobs that essentially service the needs of white collar wallahs who are going to continue working from home for now.
The way I’m seeing it is, that in the event New Zealand sees no further deaths from Covid 19, this mind set that has seen fit to elevate the integrity of a liberal capitalist economy above the potential risk to children’s life and well-being becomes no less toxic and misanthropic for all of that.
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The Green Party is calling on the public to support the Ngutu Pare Wrybill not just in this year’s Bird of the Year competition but also in pushing back against policies that could lead to the destruction of its habitat and accelerate its extinction. ...1 week ago
- Building consents data bad news for construction
News that the annual number of building consents granted for new homes fell by more than 20 percent for the year ended July 2024, is bad news for the construction industry. ...1 week ago
- Te Pāti Māori Pay Tribute to Kiingi Tūheitia Pōtatau Te Wherowhero VII
Papā te whatitiri, hikohiko te uira, i kanapu ki te rangi, i whētuki i raro rā, rū ana te whenua e. Uea te pou o tōku whare kia tū tangata he kapua whakairi nāku nā runga o Taupiri. Ko taku kiri ka tōkia ki te anu mātao. E te iwi ...1 week ago
- Release: Gaps still to be addressed in callouts response
The Government must guarantee New Zealanders will not be at risk after making changes to the way mental health callouts are handled. ...2 weeks ago
- Poroporoaki: Kiingi Tuheitia passing
Haere e te Kīngi o te kotahitangi Haere ki o nui, ki o rahi I te pō ...2 weeks ago
- Green Party pays respects to Kiingi Tuuheitia
The Green Party is paying tribute to the Māori King, Kiingi Tuuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero XVII, after he passed away earlier this morning. ...2 weeks ago
- Potaka Brings Whakaata Māori to its Knees
Today’s Whakaata Māori announcement is yet another colossal failure from Minister Potaka, who has turned his back on te reo Māori, forcing a channel offline, putting whānau out of jobs, and cutting Māori content, says Te Pāti Māori. “A Senior Māori Minister has turned his back on Te Reo Māori. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: National restricts access to disability care homes
With disability communities still reeling from the diminishing of Whaikaha, a leaked document now reveals another blow with National restricting access to residential care homes. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt must help save 230 manufacturing jobs
Labour is calling on the Government and Mercury Energy to find a solution to the proposed Winstone Pulp mill closure and save 230 manufacturing jobs. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt shirks its responsibility to Whakaata Māori
The Green Party has called out the Government for allowing Whakaata Māori to effectively collapse to a shell of its former self as job cuts and programming cuts were announced at the broadcaster today. ...2 weeks ago
- NZ First Member’s Bill To Disestablish Auckland Transport
Today New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill that will restore democratic control over transport management in Auckland City by disestablishing Auckland Transport (AT) and returning control to Auckland Council. The ‘Local Government (Auckland Council) (Disestablishment of Auckland Transport) Amendment Bill’ intends to restore democratic oversight, control, and accountability ...2 weeks ago - Release: PM fails in constitutional role and leadership
The failure of the Prime Minister to condemn his Minister for personally attacking the judiciary is another example of this Government riding roughshod over important constitutional rules. ...2 weeks ago
- Waititi urges Rotorua Lakes Council to immediately stop works at Lake Rotokākahi
Te Pāti Māori co-leader and Member of Parliament for Waiariki, which includes Rotorua, has written to Rotorua Lakes Councillors requesting they immediately stop sewerage piping works at Lake Rotokākahi in Rotorua. “Mana whenua have been urging Rotorua Lakes Council to stop works and look at alternative plans to protect the ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Patient care at risk from redundancies
Patient care could suffer as a result of further cuts to the health system, which could lose thousands of staff who keep our hospitals and clinics running. ...2 weeks ago
- Greens call on Govt to wake up on child poverty
The Green Party says the latest statistics on child poverty in this country highlight the callous approach that the Government is taking on this issue of national shame. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Police are off the beat under National
Foot patrols around the country have decreased 15 percent since National took office, despite National’s Mark Mitchell claiming otherwise. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Climate denial is an insult to Pacific leaders
Winston Peters’ climate denialism at the Pacific Islands’ Forum is an embarrassing new low. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt must end solitary confinement
The Green Party is urging the Government to end the use of solitary confinement within our prisons after new research revealed some prisoners have been held in confinement for more than 900 days. ...2 weeks ago
- Fossil fuels never the answer in climate crisis
The Government’s moves to enable the import of Liquefied Natural Gas is another step away from the sustainable and affordable energy network that this country needs. ...2 weeks ago
- Government must respect Court’s Uber employee decision
Today’s court ruling upholding the rights of Uber drivers is a message to the Government that it must not tamper with employment protections. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Uber court decision recognises workers’ rights
The Court of Appeal decision that Uber drivers are entitled to employee rights such as minimum wage, sick leave, holiday pay and collective bargaining is welcome news for the drivers involved and their unions. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour calls on Govt to divest from illegal settlements
The Labour Party is calling on the Government to tell the two major wealth funds, the NZ Super Fund and ACC, to withdraw investments from companies listed by the United Nations as complicit in Israel’s illegal settlements in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Govt backtrack on fast-track still not enough
Labour welcomes news that the National Government is backing down on its reckless proposal to give Ministers final sign-off on significant projects, but it’s still not enough. ...2 weeks ago
- Fast track still on track to environmental destruction
Our environment remains at risk despite the Government's proposed changes to its controversial fast-track legislation. ...2 weeks ago
- Ohinemuri River pollution highlights mining risks
The harrowing images of the severely polluted Ohinemuri River caused by an old mining shaft could become a more common occurrence under the mining regime the Government is looking to roll out. ...2 weeks ago
- Action to grow the rural health workforce
Scholarships awarded to 27 health care students is another positive step forward to boost the future rural health workforce, Associate Health Minister Matt Doocey says. “All New Zealanders deserve timely access to quality health care and this Government is committed to improving health outcomes, particularly for the one in five ...13 hours ago - Pharmac delivering more for Kiwis following major funding boost
Associate Health Minister with responsibility for Pharmac David Seymour has welcomed the increased availability of medicines for Kiwis resulting from the Government’s increased investment in Pharmac. “Pharmac operates independently, but it must work within the budget constraints set by the Government,” says Mr Seymour. “When our Government assumed office, New ...14 hours ago
- Sport Minister congratulates NZ’s Paralympians
Sport & Recreation Minister Chris Bishop has congratulated New Zealand's Paralympic Team at the conclusion of the Paralympic Games in Paris. “The NZ Paralympic Team's success in Paris included fantastic performances, personal best times, New Zealand records and Oceania records all being smashed - and of course, many Kiwis on ...15 hours ago
- Government progresses response to Abuse in Care recommendations
A Crown Response Office is being established within the Public Service Commission to drive the Government’s response to the Royal Commission into Abuse in Care. “The creation of an Office within a central Government agency was a key recommendation by the Royal Commission’s final report. “It will have the mandate ...4 days ago
- Passport wait times back on-track
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden says passport processing has returned to normal, and the Department of Internal Affairs [Department] is now advising customers to allow up to two weeks to receive their passport. “I am pleased that passport processing is back at target service levels and the Department ...4 days ago
- New appointments to the FMA board
Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister has today announced three new appointments and one reappointment to the Financial Markets Authority (FMA) board. Tracey Berry, Nicholas Hegan and Mariette van Ryn have been appointed for a five-year term ending in August 2029, while Chris Swasbrook, who has served as a board member ...4 days ago
- District Court judges appointed
Attorney-General Hon Judith Collins today announced the appointment of two new District Court judges. The appointees, who will take up their roles at the Manukau Court and the Auckland Court in the Accident Compensation Appeal Jurisdiction, are: Jacqui Clark Judge Clark was admitted to the bar in 1988 after graduating ...4 days ago
- Government makes it faster and easier to invest in New Zealand
Associate Minister of Finance David Seymour is encouraged by significant improvements to overseas investment decision timeframes, and the enhanced interest from investors as the Government continues to reform overseas investment. “There were about as many foreign direct investment applications in July and August as there was across the six months ...4 days ago
- New Zealand to join Operation Olympic Defender
New Zealand has accepted an invitation to join US-led multi-national space initiative Operation Olympic Defender, Defence Minister Judith Collins announced today. Operation Olympic Defender is designed to coordinate the space capabilities of member nations, enhance the resilience of space-based systems, deter hostile actions in space and reduce the spread of ...5 days ago
- Government commits to ‘stamping out’ foot and mouth disease
Biosecurity Minister Andrew Hoggard says that a new economic impact analysis report reinforces this government’s commitment to ‘stamp out’ any New Zealand foot and mouth disease incursion. “The new analysis, produced by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research, shows an incursion of the disease in New Zealand would have ...5 days ago
- Improving access to finance for Kiwis
5 September 2024 The Government is progressing further reforms to financial services to make it easier for Kiwis to access finance when they need it, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Financial services are foundational for economic success and are woven throughout our lives. Without access to finance our ...5 days ago
- Prime Minister pays tribute to Kiingi Tuheitia
As Kiingi Tuheitia Pootatau Te Wherowhero VII is laid to rest today, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has paid tribute to a leader whose commitment to Kotahitanga will have a lasting impact on our country. “Kiingi Tuheitia was a humble leader who served his people with wisdom, mana and an unwavering ...5 days ago
- Resource Management reform to make forestry rules clearer
Forestry Minister Todd McClay today announced proposals to reform the resource management system that will provide greater certainty for the forestry sector and help them meet environmental obligations. “The Government has committed to restoring confidence and certainty across the sector by removing unworkable regulatory burden created by the previous ...5 days ago
- More choice and competition in building products
A major shake-up of building products which will make it easier and more affordable to build is on the way, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “Today we have introduced legislation that will improve access to a wider variety of quality building products from overseas, giving Kiwis more choice and ...5 days ago
- Joint Statement between the Republic of Korea and New Zealand 4 September 2024, Seoul
On the occasion of the official visit by the Right Honourable Prime Minister Christopher Luxon of New Zealand to the Republic of Korea from 4 to 5 September 2024, a summit meeting was held between His Excellency President Yoon Suk Yeol of the Republic of Korea (hereinafter referred to as ...5 days ago
- Comprehensive Strategic Partnership the goal for New Zealand and Korea
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon held a bilateral meeting today with the President of the Republic of Korea, Yoon Suk Yeol. “Korea and New Zealand are likeminded democracies and natural partners in the Indo Pacific. As such, we have decided to advance discussions on elevating the bilateral relationship to a Comprehensive ...5 days ago
- International tourism continuing to bounce back
Results released today from the International Visitor Survey (IVS) confirm international tourism is continuing to bounce back, Tourism and Hospitality Minister Matt Doocey says. The IVS results show that in the June quarter, international tourism contributed $2.6 billion to New Zealand’s economy, an increase of 17 per cent on last ...6 days ago
- Government confirms RMA reforms to drive primary sector efficiency
The Government is moving to review and update national level policy directives that impact the primary sector, as part of its work to get Wellington out of farming. “The primary sector has been weighed down by unworkable and costly regulation for too long,” Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. “That is ...6 days ago
- Weak grocery competition underscores importance of cutting red tape
The first annual grocery report underscores the need for reforms to cut red tape and promote competition, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “The report paints a concerning picture of the $25 billion grocery sector and reinforces the need for stronger regulatory action, coupled with an ambitious, economy-wide ...6 days ago
- Government moves to lessen burden of reliever costs on ECE services
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says the Government has listened to the early childhood education sector’s calls to simplify paying ECE relief teachers. Today two simple changes that will reduce red tape for ECEs are being announced, in the run-up to larger changes that will come in time from the ...6 days ago
- Over 2,320 people engage with first sector regulatory review
Regulation Minister David Seymour says there has been a strong response to the Ministry for Regulation’s public consultation on the early childhood education regulatory review, affirming the need for action in reducing regulatory burden. “Over 2,320 submissions have been received from parents, teachers, centre owners, child advocacy groups, unions, research ...6 days ago
- Government backs women in horticulture
“The Government is empowering women in the horticulture industry by funding an initiative that will support networking and career progression,” Associate Minister of Agriculture, Nicola Grigg says. “Women currently make up around half of the horticulture workforce, but only 20 per cent of leadership roles which is why initiatives like this ...6 days ago
- Government to pause freshwater farm plan rollout
The Government will pause the rollout of freshwater farm plans until system improvements are finalised, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard announced today. “Improving the freshwater farm plan system to make it more cost-effective and practical for farmers is a priority for this ...7 days ago
- Milestone reached for fixing the Holidays Act 2003
Minister for Workplace Relations and Safety Brooke van Velden says yesterday Cabinet reached another milestone on fixing the Holidays Act with approval of the consultation exposure draft of the Bill ready for release next week to participants. “This Government will improve the Holidays Act with the help of businesses, workers, and ...7 days ago
- New priorities to protect future of conservation
Toitū te marae a Tāne Mahuta me Hineahuone, toitū te marae a Tangaroa me Hinemoana, toitū te taiao, toitū te tangata. The Government has introduced clear priorities to modernise Te Papa Atawhai - The Department of Conservation’s protection of our natural taonga. “Te Papa Atawhai manages nearly a third of our ...7 days ago
- Faster 110km/h speed limit to accelerate Kāpiti
A new 110km/h speed limit for the Kāpiti Expressway Road of National Significance (RoNS) has been approved to reduce travel times for Kiwis travelling in and out of Wellington, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Boosting economic growth and productivity is a key part of the Government’s plan to rebuild the economy. ...7 days ago
- IVL increase to ensure visitors contribute more to New Zealand
The International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy (IVL) will be raised to $100 to ensure visitors contribute to public services and high-quality experiences while visiting New Zealand, Minister for Tourism and Hospitality Matt Doocey and Minister of Conservation Tama Potaka say. “The Government is serious about enabling the tourism sector ...7 days ago
- Delivering priority connections for the West Coast
A record $255 million for transport investment on the West Coast through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will strengthen the region’s road and rail links to keep people connected and support the region’s economy, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “The Government is committed to making sure that every ...1 week ago
- Road and rail reliability a focus for Wellington
A record $3.3 billion of transport investment in Greater Wellington through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will increase productivity and reduce travel times, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Delivering infrastructure to increase productivity and economic growth is a priority for our Government. We're focused on delivering transport projects ...1 week ago
- Record investment to boost economic and housing growth in the Waikato
A record $1.9 billion for transport investment in the Waikato through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will create a more efficient, safe, and resilient roading network that supports economic growth and productivity, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “With almost a third of the country’s freight travelling into, out ...1 week ago
- Building reliable and efficient roading for Taranaki
A record $808 million for transport investment in Taranaki through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will support economic growth and productivity, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Taranaki’s roads carry a high volume of freight from primary industries and it’s critical we maintain efficient connections across the region to ...1 week ago
- Supporting growth and resilience in Otago and Southland
A record $1.4 billion for transport investment in Otago and Southland through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will create a more resilient and efficient network that supports economic growth and productivity, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Transport is a critical enabler for economic growth and productivity in Otago ...1 week ago
- Delivering connected and resilient roading for Northland
A record $991 million for transport investment in Northland through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will strengthen the region’s connections and support economic growth and productivity, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “We are committed to making sure that every transport dollar is spent wisely on the projects and ...1 week ago
- Top of the South to benefit from reliable transport infrastructure
A record $479 million for transport investment across the top of the South Island through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will build a stronger road network that supports primary industries and grows the economy, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “We’re committed to making sure that every dollar is ...1 week ago
- Government delivering reliable roads for Manawatū-Whanganui
A record $1.6 billion for transport investment in Manawatū-Whanganui through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will strengthen the region’s importance as a strategic freight hub that boosts economic growth, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Delivering infrastructure to increase productivity and economic growth is a priority for our Government. ...1 week ago
- Restoring connections in Hawke’s Bay
A record $657 million for transport investment in the Hawke’s Bay through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will support recovery from cyclone damage and build greater resilience into the network to support economic growth and productivity, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “We are committed to making sure that ...1 week ago
- Transport resilience a priority for Gisborne
A record $255 million for transport investment in Gisborne through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will support economic growth and restore the cyclone-damaged network, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “With $255 million of investment over the next three years, we are committed to making sure that every transport ...1 week ago
- Prioritising growth and reduced travel times in Canterbury
A record $1.8 billion for transport investment Canterbury through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will boost economic growth and productivity and reduce travel times, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Christchurch is the economic powerhouse of the South Island, and transport is a critical enabler for economic growth and ...1 week ago
- Supporting growth and freight in the Bay of Plenty
A record $1.9 billion for transport investment in the Bay of Plenty through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will boost economic growth and unlock land for thousands of houses, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Transport is a critical enabler for economic growth and productivity in the Bay of ...1 week ago
- Getting transport back on track in Auckland
A record $8.4 billion for transport investment in Auckland through the 2024-27 National Land Transport Programme (NLTP) will deliver the infrastructure our rapidly growing region needs to support economic growth and reduce travel times, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Aucklanders rejected the previous government’s transport policies which resulted in non-delivery, phantoms projects, ...1 week ago
- Albanese promises to legislate minimum age for kids’ access to social media
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra The Albanese government will introduce legislation this term to enforce a minimum age for children to access social media. Prime Minister Anthony Albanese will make the formal announcement on Tuesday. This follows a discussion at ...2 hours ago - Pro-Palestinian activists hold protests to disrupt defense expo in Australia
By Efe Özkan Pro-Palestinian anti-war activists in Australia have protested in Melbourne, disrupting a defence expo set to open on Wednesday. Protesters gathered yesterday in front of companies connected to weapons manufacturing across Melbourne as police were called to prevent an escalation of the events, according to 7News Melbourne. Many ...4 hours ago
- ‘Didn’t care enough’: here’s what the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide foun...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ben Wadham, Professor, Director, Open Door: Understanding and Supporting Service Personnel and their Families, Flinders University After three years of investigations, the Royal Commission into Defence and Veteran Suicide has delivered its final report with 122 recommendations. The commission has carried much ...7 hours ago
- What is 3-phase power? And how do I know if my house needs it?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Asma Aziz, Senior Lecturer in Power Engineering, Edith Cowan University If you’re building, renovating or planning to install a solar battery, your builder or installer might ask whether you’ve considered upgrading from single-phase to three-phase power. This upgrade often comes with a ...8 hours ago
- MSG is back. Is the idea it’s bad for us just a myth or food science?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Evangeline Mantzioris, Program Director of Nutrition and Food Sciences, Accredited Practising Dietitian, University of South Australia Dr. Victor Wong/Shutterstock MSG is making a comeback. The internet’s favourite cucumber salad recipe includes fish sauce, cucumber, garlic and – as the video’s creator ...8 hours ago
- South Australia is proposing a law to ban kids under 14 from social media. How would it work?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lisa M. Given, Professor of Information Sciences & Director, Social Change Enabling Impact Platform, RMIT University Artie Medvedev/Shutterstock The South Australian government is moving ahead with plans to ban children under 14 from social media. Under the proposal, teens aged 14 ...9 hours ago
- Australia’s construction industry needs more hands on deck – so why is it ignoring skilled migra...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Martin Loosemore, Professor of Construction Management, University of Technology Sydney Shutterstock Australia’s construction industry is facing a perfect storm: enormous targets for building – 1.2 million new homes and A$230 billion worth of infrastructure over the next five years – at ...9 hours ago
- At Melaka Art & Performance Festival I watched dancers overcome by a trance in the rain, and the...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonathan W. Marshall, Associate Professor & Postgraduate Research Coordinator, Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts, Edith Cowan University Feifei Liao performing in the village ruins. Photo by and courtesy of Teo Swee An. Melbourne-based Tony Yap is a leading figure in ...9 hours ago
- Google is facing another crucial court case in the US – and it could have major consequences for o...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Barbora Jedlickova, Senior Lecturer, School of Law, The University of Queensland One month after a US court ruled Google had illegally maintained its monopoly on internet search, the tech giant will this week face the start of yet another important antitrust case. ...10 hours ago
- Christopher Luxon refuses to speak about Treaty Principles Bill after it was handed to Cabinet
The Prime Minister says ACT leader David Seymour will have more to say on the Bill soon. ...10 hours ago - Jesus’s vision fulfilled: David Seymour restores unity to the church
The Christian church has had quite a few dust-ups with itself over the last 20 centuries. This week, the Act Party brought it together. Since Jesus prayed that his followers may all be one (John 17:20-21), Christians have barely stopped fighting. Yes, they’ve occasionally broken off to slaughter people in ...11 hours ago - PODCAST: The Politics of Desperation – Trump, Netanyahu, Maduro, Ortega
Podcast: A View from Afar with Paul G Buchanan and Selwyn Manning. Building upon recent episodes of A View from Afar, Political Scientist Paul G Buchanan and journalist Selwyn Manning discuss The Politics of Desperation. This episode flows on from our discussions about long transitions and the moment ...11 hours ago
- Pope Francis’ visit to Timor-Leste is powerful and symbolic, but also political
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shannon Brincat, Senior Lecturer in Politics and International Relations, University of the Sunshine Coast Author provided, Author provided Timor-Leste has had much to celebrate recently. August 30 marked 25 years since the Popular Consultation – or “The Referendum”, as many call ...11 hours ago
- What’s the difference between a heart attack and cardiac arrest? One’s about plumbing, the other...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Todorovic, Associate Professor of Medicine, Bond University Explode/Shutterstock In July 2023, rising US basketball star Bronny James collapsed on the court during practice and was sent to hospital. The 18-year-old athlete, son of famous LA Lakers’ veteran LeBron James, had ...12 hours ago
- If we truly want our Paralympic athletes to shine, their coaches need more support
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Bennie, Associate Professor, Health and Physical Education/Sport Development, Western Sydney University The 2024 Paris Paralympics delivered heightened attention and awareness of a pinnacle sporting event for para athletes. Australia has often set the standard for para sport, consistently achieving top ...12 hours ago
- New to streaming: What to watch on Netflix NZ, Neon and more this week
We round up everything coming to streaming services this week, including Netflix, Amazon Prime, Disney+, Apple TV+, ThreeNow, Neon and TVNZ+. If you love celebs out of their comfort zone: Celebrity Treasure Island (TVNZ+, starting September 9) We’re back on the beach for a new season of celebrity ...13 hours ago
- Harris’ lead dips in national US polls and it’s very close in the key states
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Adrian Beaumont, Election Analyst (Psephologist) at The Conversation; and Honorary Associate, School of Mathematics and Statistics, The University of Melbourne The United States presidential election will be held on November 5. In analyst Nate Silver’s aggregate of national polls, Democrat Kamala Harris ...14 hours ago
- Rewriting history: how the Treaty ‘principles’ evolved and why they don’t stand up to scrutiny
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jane Kelsey, Emeritus Professor of Law, University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau Getty Images ACT Party leader David Seymour has said the goal of his Treaty Principles Bill is to stimulate an overdue conversation on te Tiriti o Waitangi/Treaty of Waitangi. ...14 hours ago
- Surge in non-disclosure agreements at Health NZ sparks Labour complaint
Nearly 70 staff at Te Whatu Ora have signed non-disclosure agreements since the end of November. ...15 hours ago
- ‘Numerous questions’, but Fiji govt sticks with new anti-corruption chief
By Caleb Fotheringham, RNZ Pacific journalist The Fiji government is backing the appointment of the country’s new anti-corruption chief who was under investigation by the office she now heads, which has left Fijians asking questions. Barbara Malimali — who was also the Electoral Commission chairperson — was revealed as the ...15 hours ago
- Pope Francis calls for end to tribal ‘spiral of violence’ in PNG visit
Inside PNG reports that Papua New Guinea is blessed with an abundance of natural resources, a proclamation even Pope Francis acknowledges. But Papua New Guinea is also challenged with socio-economic developments that do not reach the rural majority despite the presence of numerous extractive industries. The Pontiff in his remarks ...15 hours ago
- Anne Salmond: A Cabinet of principles?
The effrontery of David Seymour’s riposte to Church leaders over his Treaty Principles Bill is breathtaking. He accuses them of being undemocratic. When the Act Party took the idea of a referendum on Te Tiriti to a general election in 2023, it won just 8.6 percent of the vote. The other ...15 hours ago - Public feedback sought on new tolls for lower North Island
Consultation on the proposed tolling schemes for the Manawatū Tararua Highway and the Ōtaki to north of Levin highway is now open. ...15 hours ago
- A new festival celebrates the art of the picture book
Picture Me is a brand new book festival happening in Wellington and Christchurch between 11–28 September. Here’s the inside scoop on the international headliners and what they’ll be doing while in Aotearoa. A good picture book has a timeless quality: a story you don’t mind reading over, and over and ...15 hours ago
- Minister tried to hide NZDF criticism of boot camp comments
The criticism was revealed to RNZ in an official information act response, but new documents show Judith Collins asked for them to be redacted. ...16 hours ago
- LIVE@12:45pm – The Politics of Desperation – Trump, Netanyahu, Maduro, Ortega
The LIVE Recording of A View from Afar podcast will begin today at 12:45pm September 9, 2024 (NZST) which is Sunday evening, 8:45pm (USEDT). Building upon recent episodes of A View from Afar, Political Scientist Paul G Buchanan and journalist Selwyn Manning will discuss The Politics of Desperation. ...16 hours ago
- David Seymour hits out at church leaders over Treaty Principles Bill
The ACT leader says churches are abandoning their core beliefs, after 400 Christian leaders condemned his controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...17 hours ago
- Some home truths about gene technologies
In response to criticism of proposed changes to our GM settings, scientist Revel Drummond says we should discuss the issue of regulatory change from a position of educated debate, not fear-mongering. New technologies often get pushback from sectors of society. In the 19th century people feared the unknown effects on ...17 hours ago
- Dane and Stacey on making travel a business, owning half a dog, and finding balance
Earning money while you travel sounds like a dream to many of us – so how hard is it to make the dream a reality? Travel content creators Dane and Stacey joined Kiwibank’s This is Kiwi podcast to talk about documenting their adventures online, and remembering to sometimes put the ...17 hours ago
- Councils’ credit ratings downgraded over debt, rising costs
A reduced rating will mean higher borrowing costs for two major city councils. ...17 hours ago
- Is America ready to elect a Black woman president?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Emma Shortis, Adjunct Senior Fellow, School of Global, Urban and Social Studies, RMIT University It’s the big question that has loomed over Kamala Harris’ presidential campaign from the start: is the United States ready for a Black woman president? I get ...18 hours ago
- Murdoch to Musk: how global media power has shifted from the moguls to the big tech bros
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matthew Ricketson, Professor of Communication, Deakin University Until recently, Elon Musk was just a wildly successful electric car tycoon and space pioneer. Sure, he was erratic and outspoken, but his global influence was contained and seemingly under control. But add the ...18 hours ago
- Africa desperately needs mpox vaccines. But donations from rich countries won’t fix this or the ne...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Joel Lexchin, Professor Emeritus of Health Policy and Management, York University, Canada Africa says it needs an estimated ten million doses of mpox vaccine to control this public health emergency. The situation is particularly concerning in the Democratic Republic of the Congo, ...18 hours ago
- Plot twist: how giving old graveyards new life as parks can improve our cities
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rob Stokes, Industry Professor, Environment and Sustainability, Macquarie University Camperdown Cemetery in Newtown, Sydney Rose Marinelli/Shutterstock Old graveyards are a forgotten land asset that can find new life as urban parks in crowded cities. As the density of our cities increases, efficient ...18 hours ago
- 91% of Australian teens have a phone – but many are not keeping their identity and location secure
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yeslam Al-Saggaf, Professor in Computing, Charles Sturt University Halfpoint/ Shutterstock , CC BY Most Australian teenagers have their own smartphone. According to a 2023 survey, 91% of young people between 14 and 17 owned a phone. At the same time, ...18 hours ago
- Pay-by-weight airfares are an ethical minefield. We asked travellers what they actually think
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News flash bill ,nz is on top of covid ,I'm sure if numbers rise this excellent government of ours will act.
My kids are going back to school on Mon. The schools have been communicating with us parents and kept us informed with the new policies in place. So short answer, "no".
Mine spent most of 5 weeks at my work ,chilling in the ute or cruising on the bike ( very laid back kid) so the 2nd week of l3 I decided the coast was clear enough for school.
I was just talking to two relatives who are teachers. As far as I could tell they were more outraged at the doubling of teacher registration costs from the teaching council this week.
In essence they said that the Teaching Council does bugger all, that the PPTA (in their case) does all of the work and that it appeared to them that the TC was raising money from teachers to provide some kind of training.Something that was already being done through multiple other channels especially down at the school level. In particular that it was raising from the lower paid teachers to pay to train the better paid teachers and principals for their future development.
I haven’t looked into it yet.
https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/15-05-2020/teachers-outraged-as-registration-fees-more-than-double/
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/121521657/teachers-fume-after-council-doubles-registration-fee
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/05/petition-to-stop-teaching-council-doubling-teacher-registration-fees-attracts-nearly-14-000-signatures.html
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/education/news/article.cfm?c_id=35&objectid=12305918
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/fears-proposed-teacher-registration-fee-increase-could-worsen-current-shortage
Interesting. I wonder what the legislative requirements are. If there are 100k teachers paying $157 per year, then that is 15.7 million. Which is way too much for a registration service, and way too little to provide much training and development. It also sounds like a pittance compared to the ongoing training and development that I know that many if not most teachers already do for themselves or through their school boards.
It would pay a ceo and cfo handsomely.
Hey, be fair, Gabby. I am still in the 'profession', and back in 2007 that illustrious Teachers' Council (for a fee of $200+ over 3 years) gave me a lovely, glossy Registration Certificate!!
I believe there are no actual teachers on the Teaching Council ; can that be confirmed ?
And that recent communication from the Teaching Council (re the increase) occurred at the same time Lockdown was starting. Most teachers were sorting out on line provision of education services at that stage.
Patricia 2 – I decided not to pointlessly respond to their questionnaire. It would only have raised my blood pressure, and I am sure that they would have binned my offerings.
Looking at the summary of input they recently sent out, I think a lot of teacher discontent was euphemised…
Worse than that the letter came during the budget. Very poor timing. There are two teacher reps on the council now thanks to this govt. Unfortunately the rest, including the ceo are not.
The reason that it arrived at the budget was because the budget had an amount in it for the teaching council to effectively tide them over until the increased payments from teachers came through. That was in the articles I linked.
The problem is that it doesn't look like a lot of the teachers perceive that they're going to get value from the increased amount that they were from what they were already paying – which they also don't perceive much value it.
You have to remember that the professional development that this is meant to be in part paid for, is already being down by the teachers themselves or the schools they're at. The teacher advocacy is largely being done by unions like the PPTA, NZEI etc – that they usually paying for as well. The teachers themselves did their degrees and teacher training by paying for student loans.
So as I heard it – what use is the teaching council apart from just being a registration body for teachers? Something that could be done a whole lot cheaper than ever the $220 they have had to pay every three years previously? What in the hell are they paying $157 per year for?
Especially as this is a flat fee across all teachers – thereby hitting new teachers and the poorest paid harder as a percentage than the ones paid more.
As a general rule work related costs like Professional body fees, plumbers registration and indeed my own registration costs, which are not cheap, are tax deductible, and paid by your company, sole trade entity or partnership, or employer.
Why are Teachers paying it directly, from after tax income.
Thanks LPrent. It is worse than just fees. The teachers council in its current form is the brain child of Hekua Parata. She didn't listen to teachers when she pushed the legislation to disestablish our council and replace it with govt. Appointed beauraucrats who don't give a rats about teachers but are empire building. We are not happy. No one asked for what the council has done. They don't represent us they are nasty parasites.
My license fees are $90 each for my plumbing and drainage total $180. The PGBD does Professional Development, complaints etc.
https://teachingcouncil.nz/content/teaching-council-board-elections
Where's the evidence that children in NZ will be at risk from covid?
I didn't look at it in depth, but the pandemic response in NZ is about managing risk across the population, and I see the position on kids and covid being part of that. It's not saying no children can get covid, it's saying that if a child does, that the infection can be contained (kids in schools are relatively easy to contact trace), and that the risk is low of increasing the R0 value in NZ at this time. The chances of a child contracting covid now is pretty low. Obviously kids with immune issues will need to take precautions, like they do with other contagious outbreaks (measles, whooping cough).
Also not seeing any evidence that Wiles would go against her own science-based understanding in order to uphold government lines.
NZers do seem to have this thing about kids not being in school is really bad. I don't get it myself, especially primary school kids. But yeah, I think people are wanting kids to be in school because it's seen as important.
The other issue here, and a real one, is that of childcare if kids aren't in school.
Where's the evidence that children in NZ will be at risk from covid?
As The Atlantic article points out, PMIS manifests after some weeks. Meanwhile The Guardian article alludes to children having slipped through testing nets because they weren't seen as carriers and would also have tended to be untested unless displaying symptoms…which they wouldn't have because "some weeks" Meanwhile we've been fed a narrative as an article of faith, that children are low risk (from being infected, from getting seriously ill, from being vectors)
It may be the case that NZ is, to all practical purposes, clear of Covid. It could also be that infection is in the community but not yet apparent.
Obviously, in the first instance, there is no risk.
But insofar as there's a lack of certainty, to my way of thinking, applying the precautionary principle would have been the human thing to do. And never shove children out in front first.
"Meanwhile we've been fed a narrative as an article of faith, that children are low risk (from being infected, from getting seriously ill, from being vectors)"
That's because the science is showing they appear to be at low risk. PMIS also appears to be rare, death from PMIS very rare. If we were in New York, there would obviously be a much higher risk. Here, where we have contained transmission along with good isolation strategies, the chances of a child getting covid are quite low. Of those that do get covid the chances of getting PMIS are much lower, and death from that even lower still.
There might be a case for the DHB areas that are still getting new cases to be more cautious, but the SDHB for instance hasn't had any new cases for 27 days. There is still much we don't know, but I assume this means that there is no latent community transmission, or that if there is it is minimal and will be contained when it appears.
We could get really unlucky and find that covid can transmit asymptomatically and cause active cases months after the last known case. I'm not sure there is any evidence to support that though. Given that, using the precautionary principle, how long should kids stay home from school, with all the consequences of that if it is long term?
(repeating, the MoH approaches to public health are always going to be about how best to manage situations from their perspective. It's rare for single individuals to be the priority).
I think the chance or risk rather of latent community transmission is becoming lower as time goes by. During weekdays, they’re conducting about 7,000 tests every day and about half that in the weekends.
That's because the science is showing they appear to be at low risk.
See my replies elsewhere in this thread that link to reputable sources (ie -UK Office of National Statistics) calling that conclusion into serious question.
I can't see the basis for saying PMIS is rare. If symptoms are generally mild and not thought to warrant medical attention, then the incidence of PMIS will be underestimated.
And the point about PMIS is whether a person with it is infectious, and if so, at what point – ie, before they exhibit symptoms or only when they exhibit symptoms…and back around to mild symptoms slipping under the radar because a) person doesn't seek medical attention and b) children are assumed to be at low risk of infection and so possibly less likely to be tested than would be the case if they were an adult.
Parents could have been given a choice about sending their children back to school, secure in the knowledge that government was ensuring they would not face possible recrimination from employers if they had kept their children away.
I'm sending my kids back to school on Monday. There are no active cases in Wellington or the Hutt Valley where I live… what exactly is the risk?
I have noticed a big difference between level 2 from level 3 compared to from level 4 to level 3. People are now able to travel to any region so a case in one region could go to another region.
As long as teachers can access a test and children who are unwell can access a test and some testing is carried out among children who are not showing symptoms this will help to detect a case when there is one.
I would have liked to have seen a 2.5 for a month. The .5 keeping school children home. This would have been able to determine if community transmission was occurring in the adult population without great numbers of children being grouped together. I am waiting to see how things go at Marist College in Auckland with attendance and cases.
What action will be taken when there is a case at a school needs to be swift and known. I would also like to see teachers being tested. If a child has any symptoms I expect that they will be sent home immediately and the child will require supervision.
How understanding is an employer going to be if you have a unwell child and the number of children also could matter?
Is it going to be a step backward for women with children not being hired?
Sadly that's nothing new and Covid won't change that narrow minded approach from some old fashioned sexist employers.
Schools have the advantage that they have a very good idea who is there at any time. Makes contact tracing easy.
The best current evidence is that children are not so badly affected as older groups. There are some that get it bad, and some die of odd causes, but the percentage is very small (still not nice for the parents of the exceptions).
Some children are coping very well at home and learning all sorts of stuff, but the ones who aren't are mostly the ones who are already at a disadvantage. The less educational time lost the better. It seems at least as important as keeping a barista employed.
So if professional league players can play and other people can go to work in places where distancing is theoretical, it seems that children should be able to go to school. I don't think the truancy police are going to be looking for those whose parents are afraid to send them to school. I think the school is going to want to know who they are, so they can make arrangements for them.
Good post. Schools are inherently traceable entities. Parents can't go to schools in normal times without permission. No student is allowed out of school unless authorised.
The principal of Massey High School, Glen Denham, made the point a few weeks ago that his Y12 and Y13 students are already difficult to engage so the reality is the longer they are kept away from school, fewer will come back at all.
I was very sad at his summation that there will be a significant number of late teens in lower income communities all over the country who will not finish school.
Yes, schools are taking contact tracing very seriously, parents have been sent information about which gates will be open, if we go on school grounds we have to register at the office.
If kids are sick that's what my sick days are for, I'm a solo father and taking days off for sick kids has never been an issue.
I took my children out of school before lockdown, I am confident enough to send my kids back.
So you're a government, you're pretty sure there's no more community transmission and your active cases are approaching zero, and even your "new" cases seem to have been cases that were missed a week or more ago – when do you open everything up?
Because it's not just schools being reopened, it's bars, cinemas, theatres, museums, offices, etc. There's no point staying in lockdown if it ain't here.
You really do have some odd takes sometimes.
I agree lock-down can't last forever. What I disagree with is children being among the first to be put back into a potentially hazardous environment on the basis of "pretty sure" or some such. There is a lot about covid 19 we simply don't know or understand. For example, we had been progressing under the notion that incubation times were no more than 14 days. But that's just been blown out of the water with PMIS cases. We also thought children were less susceptible to infection, but that's now being reappraised. And I haven't heard dicky on PMIS and infectiousness – when is a person with PMIS infectious, if at all?
Anyway. Yes, bars, cinemas and such like are open. But those are spaces anyone can choose to enter or avoid. There's no choice around the school reopening – yes, a parent could keep their child away from school if the parent isn't being leveraged back into the workplace regardless.
Why weren't single, white collar workers the first people called on to venture back into whatever this new normality might be? Why do children get to go first? (That's rhetorical – I've given my answer in the post)
Children aren’t going first.
Schools weren't kept open at L4.
They weren't reopened for L3.
They were alongside pretty much everyone else reopening at L2. Including this single white collar worker.
School was voluntary at level 3. Is there a compelling reason to have made it mandatory at level 2 given our understanding of even some of the basics about Covid are in a state of flux?
ie – now being suggested that children are not less susceptible after all, and it seems PMIS presents a whole new ball game in terms of incubation periods ( and possibly infectiousness).
School wasn't "voluntary" at L3.
At L2, the compelling reason to reopen schools is that there isn't the isolation imperative or personal risk involved in resuming normal routines (for most people – those with reason to be in isolation or whatevs still do distance learning).
Your rhetoric makes it sound like white collar workers are making schoolkids walk through a minefield to clear it, while taking bets on which kid goes 'splody first.
In fact, it's a considered assessment of the situation by people and organisations who have spent years and careers preparing for this event. Maybe we'll have to walk it back, maybe not. But it will be based on more solid information than your tilting at neoliberal windmills.
A government putting children in the front line at this time when new information that pertains to them and their health is just emerging, and just so workers get back to their jobs and get the economy moving, is unconscionable.
You want to dismiss that as "tilting at neoliberal windmills", then fine.
There's always new information coming in. Should we stay in lockdown forever, the first generation of bunkerbabies?
It's not just so people can get back to work. It's about restoring some semblance of a normal life, with community and interaction and even, fuckmedead, jobs. Purpose. Dating. Meeting people. Seeing something other than the same four walls all day. The simple act of a fucking conversation.
There's no "front line". There's no area more dangerous that we can throw kids into and laugh maniacally. What you regard as an unconscionable risk to children is a simple act of stepping outside when the storm has (according to firsthand observation, satellite imagery, and the calculations of trained professionals) passed. Which we all have to do sometime lest we turn into morlocks.
Should we stay in lockdown forever, the first generation of bunkerbabies?
I've already addressed that in my first response to your comment on this thread.
It's not just so people can get back to work.
I agree, but it's the government's motivation I'm talking to – not a list of impacts on social dynamics that coming out from lock-down will have.
I also said it was the government's decision that was unconscionable – not that the potential hazard in an environment was unconscionable.
A better analogy than your storm would be one referring to the potential for multiple tsunamis after an earthquake and the timing of a decision hit the beach again (children being among the first).
Reports on PMIS over coming days and weeks might prove to be "interesting" (though I hope they're not).
Oh, they'll be very interesting.
But not so much here. Because once we understand the main parameters of transmission (which we do now), it really is more like forecasting weather rather than predicting earthquakes. There are basic mathematical variables that can be assessed and your models confirmed via multiple observable thresholds. We are nowhere near that with earthquake prediction.
Your interpretation of government motivations is surreal. If you can only imagine unconscionable motives from government then every one's an aresehole, I guess.
If you can only imagine unconscionable motives from government ..
McFlock. Are you experiencing severe reading comprehension problems? I haven't said the government's motivation is unconscionable, and I've been quite straight forward on what I think the principle motivation for the government's decision has been.
You said you were talking to the government's motivation and that their decision was unconscionable.
Pray excuse me for thinking that one might be related to the other. 🙄
There has been far too much contradictory advice about "social distancing".
Apparently we all have to keep two metres apart when in the open air, or large enough gathering places.
None of the above applies to classrooms or school buses?
Why bother having a rule with those exemptions?
Non school children need an explanation from the "medical experts".
Basically, schools are now larger bubbles. Public transport is not.
Define "bubble".
Tauranga to Wellington?
I would love to see what science was involved.
Define bubble? Have you not been paying attention over the past couple of months?
I think most universities have courses in epidemiology if you really would like to know more than what's been rather exhaustively described in the daily pressers.
School classrooms have seating spread apart, assemblies look a bit odd with all the kids sitting apart, (they did all this before lockdown), of course it's not gonna be perfect, much like the tradies, shoppers, bar drinkers, footpath walkers, etc …
There are large numbers of schools now which have been altered, or built, to open plan classrooms. (Sorry, Modern Learning Environments).
Some of the newer secondary schools, which used to have 3 classes in a "space", ie around 90 kids plus teachers and teacher aides, have not been kept up to roll increases and now have 4 classes ie around 120 kids plus teachers etc. Students do not have spaced, individual desks, but group around tables and sprawl around on benches.
So assemblies can be cancelled, but what about the teaching time and space?
Here’s a link to the very recent WHO Scientific Brief Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children and adolescents with COVID-19.
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/multisystem-inflammatory-syndrome-in-children-and-adolescents-with-covid-19
That is more a link about how to report than anything else. But an interesting link none-the-less. Gotta love how you can see full-text on almost all covid-19 reports.
They have recognised an issue and now they're trying to standardise the reporting back to a central point based on observed symptoms so that it can be mapped and analysed.
The things that they do have data on (refs 13-15 in the link)
13: Italy 10 children with kawasaki across of whole province.
14: Washington DC 177 children with confirmed covid-19. 39% with pre-existing conditions. Most with the usual covid-19 presentations. 1 with kawasaki disease type symptoms
15: Detailed diagnostic of a single case with kawasaki disease type symptoms
It looks like the under-20 make up about 2% of all known cases in a US analysis in Ref 15. But Ref 14 also says that a reanalysis of the Wuhan epicenter data gave 12%. I'd hazard a guess that when the environmental load goes up high, then so does the younger infection rate.
The thing is the "1001" unknowns…still trying to figure out who's infectious, how long a person may be infectious, possible asymptomatic infection, symptoms and how they differ across ages and back to unknowns around infectiousness…
ONS date from the UK contradicts other studies that have been cited to suggest children are more in the clear than adults and reportedly shows children were as likely to catch coronavirus as adults
Further down he same article…(bold added)
Azeem Majeed, a professor of primary care at Imperial College London, said the data suggest some previous studies, based on hospital admissions, may have underestimated the rates of infection in children.
“Children usually have mild symptoms and therefore may not often need medical care. The next step will be to try to determine whether children are as likely as adults to infect other people,” he said.
I'd be curious to know the age of the Maris College case from the other day. And to know what symptoms they had when they tested negative, and what symptoms they have now ( -eg -more in line with PMIS?) that they have tested "weak positive", as well as what "weak positive" is known to mean in the case of covid 19 and infectiousness (ie – not a punt on probabilities).
Aged between 15-19.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases/covid-19-current-cases-details
As far as I’m aware there is no clear or at least no clearly articulated definition of “weak positive”.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-16-05-2020/#comment-1712338
They were “not considered infectious now”.
The number of known active cases is dropping every day.
Make of that what you will.
So you think the reasons being given by medical professionals as to a) why young people will not have been as widely tested among as other age groups, and b) why they are underrepresented in data sets…you think those reasons are bogus?
Weak positive merely signals that low levels of the virus were found. But given the uncertainty around infectiousness and what not, it doesn't really mean anything very much.
Nope.
Do I think it is safe to send children back to school under current Level 2 in New Zealand?
Yup.
If we knew what a ‘weak positive’ really means, we wouldn’t have to speculate as much. My speculation (https://thestandard.org.nz/covid-19-may-be-endemic/#comment-1712132) was close to that of Professor David Murdoch, Dean of the University of Otago, Christchurch. Based on that and the particular case history, I think it is safe to assume it means that that case was indeed “not considered infectious now”.
If children were infecting adults, it would have shown up in cluster tracing and random community testing. The level of confidence with which our public health experts are advising government reflects that.
Indeed, I think we safely can rule out children being a major vector of COVID-19 in New Zealand. Hopefully, it stays that way. So far, there have been 157 reported cases in the 0-19 age group of which four are still active. No deaths and no other reported complications or delayed symptoms yet, as far as we know.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-current-situation/covid-19-current-cases
Indeed, I think we safely can rule out children being a major vector of COVID-19 in New Zealand.
If there are any young people who were exposed to covid 19, they will not develop any signs of PMIS for weeks. I have no idea (and I don;t think it's known at this stage) if a person with PMIS is contagious and so able to transmit Covid 19 onto anyone.
But if those two factors (exposure and contagion) exist, then ruling out children as a potential major vector is going to have quite the teeth on it.
That’s a fair comment but it doesn’t change the view that children are currently not a major vector of COVID-19. We might see delayed symptoms but in all likelihood, the numbers will be small if not zero.
Why are there so many definitions of bubbles?
Where is the science?
A "bubble" is an illustrative description of a concept designed to help people understand the principle. The concept it illustrates is that of lowering the transmission of an infection throughout the population via the use of physical distancing between the most practicably-atomic social units (nuclear families, households, etc). The lower transmission is reflected in a lower R0, which in turn reflects itself in flatter and wider infection curves, where the area under the curve corresponds to the total infected population.
To use another analogy, it's a fire-break. The flames of infection hit the fire-break and don't spread to the next forestry block (or at least the spread is slowed).
Here's an article about the math, if you want. But the size of bubbles isn't based on any line in the sand, it's based on practical group sizes: households, offices, classes, schools.
If you need prescriptive rules enumerated to the tenth significant figure, this is not your friend. It's a science, not an art, but it's practical engineering rather than lab work in a controlled environment.
I'm reminded of the old Lotsa Noodles Soup ad, the kid saying over & over again, "but what's it called?" = "but what's a bubble?" A brilliant description McFlock.
Cheers.
I don't have much truck with the eternally morose, but some people do just regularly have intense difficulty with gray areas and blurred lines.
The fun bit is with things like confidence intervals – one variable might be "within the interval" and the other "significant", when really there's a 1-point difference at the third significant digit between the two of them. In reality, both of them are sort of "meh… maybe, maybe not, but kinda interesting". Whereas I tend toward the "do we really give a shit" about whether one total should be grouped with another, when the clinicians are like "yeah, actually they're fundamentally different both in treatment and in diagnosis, even though the sound the same".
Takes a village, sort of thing.
We received detailed emails from both of my children's schools. Here's an example of some of their important new rules.
Children that do not adhere to Level 2 rules will be sent home.
Parents are not encouraged not to enter school grounds. Parents of year 1-3 students will have to sign a contract tracing book and will need to use the hand santiser upon entry to the classroom.
School sports shed and gym will be closed, student leaders will be preparing activities for students that allow for physical distancing.
All lunch passes will be cancelled.
When students return to school their well being will be the number one priority ahead of any academic learning or any assessments.
I’m back at work and my kids will be back at school on Monday. And they are looking forward to it so very much.
Interesting to learn this morning that the confirmed case yesterday was a pre-schooler (between 1 and 4 years old). That little tidbit got a bit buried in all the level 2 self-satisfaction.
What’s your point?
Just reinforces the point that young children are susceptible and potential spreaders, which is not the messaging that the government was putting across at the time schools and ECE's were reopening at level 3 and not what they'd want in focus as things return to "normal" today .
To me the statements around children have been the biggest misstep of the otherwise excellent government communications, where the messaging has crossed the line from factual to spin. Hopefully they've got the spread of the virus under control to the point that it will not now matter in practice – the next three or four weeks will tell the story.
You and others seem to be operating under the misconception that our Government has stated in no uncertain terms that children are not susceptible to COVID-19 and (therefore?) no potential spreaders. The Marist cluster is a case in point, but a child at school did apparently not start this outbreak. You’re free to believe that they have been spinning the facts but that is certainly not my view in this regard. What we know now and what we’ll know in four weeks are likely to be very different.
You're right that they did not categorically state it in no uncertain terms (that would have been an outright lie rather than just spin) but Dr Bloomfield's statements in April that the virus "doesn't infect or affect children and teens in the same way it does adults" and "Children and teens … don't tend to pass the virus on to adults," seemed to be based on anecdotal evidence rather than reliable research. I remember that at the same time as he was saying this, there was a study by John Hopkins University in the US saying that there was insufficient information to draw any conclusions about the risk of children spreading it. It just stood out to me as a very optimistic/she'll be right approach when in all other respects the government had (and still has) proceeded with caution.
I thought all along that Bloomfield’s statements and language were careful and cautious and never for a moment thought there had “crossed the line from factual to spin” as you suggested earlier. Bloomfield was aware of the inherent uncertainties in the information at hand. The messaging was sometimes a little unclear and even confusing but they seemed to be keen to correct and update and be as clear, open, and honest with the NZ public as possible under the circumstances. I’d say that it was excellent communication and PR but not spin. In any case, we were in Level 4 lockdown, not re-opening schools in L2 and what applied then does not apply now and vice versa. Lastly, as bill has pointed out, there are still many questions particularly around children.
Both kids went back to school today. They loved it. We as parents loved it too. Not because we didn't enjoy the time with them but because we can't do the job of teachers and schools.