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Some men just want to see the World burn

Written By: - Date published: 8:24 am, November 12th, 2020 - 58 comments
Categories: Donald Trump, politicans, uncategorized, us politics - Tags: ,

Normally when you lose an election you say nice things about the winner and make way for them.

But is Trump doing this in the US of A? No sirree.

The last thing that was seen of him publicly was his playing golf as the election result was finally called by media.  How appropriate.

But yesterday was rather disturbing.  The election result is pretty clear.  For Biden to lose there would have to be significant upheavals in a number of States’s results.   The convention is that the existing regime makes sure that Biden and Harris have sufficient resources to start putting their team together and getting ready to lead.

But something happened.  Like everything imaginable.

The funding for Biden to start to prepare has not been released and Biden has had to seek private donations to support organising the transition.  I cannot imagine anything more petty, obstructive or destructive of America’s interests.  Why am I not surprised.  From Gene Maddaus at Variety:

Major donors to President-elect Joe Biden’s campaign are being asked this week to contribute to his transition effort, as the Trump administration has refused to turn over millions in federal funding.

The Biden-Harris transition is holding a Zoom event for donors on Thursday with Evan Ryan, a Biden adviser and former assistant secretary of state. Donors are being asked to contribute $5,000, the legal maximum.

Chris Korge, national finance chair for the Democratic National Committee, and Heather Murren, finance chair of the Biden campaign, sent an email on Monday to donors thanking them for their help in getting Biden elected.

“Unfortunately what we have seen from President Trump since he clearly and undisputably lost his bid for reelection as President of the United States is nothing less than total obstruction,” they wrote. “He has refused to accept defeat like Hillary Clinton, Mitt Romney, John McCain, John Kerry, Al Gore and every other person who has lost the race for president in our lifetime. To make matters worse the Trump administration has also refused to date to give the Biden Harris Transition Team the federal dollars that are supposed to be given for the transition. Quite frankly this is just flat out WRONG and the American people will be the big losers if we don’t immediately step up and do something about it!”

As if this was not enough the Trump White House has instructed senior Government leaders not to cooperate.  From the Washington Post:

The Trump White House on Monday instructed senior government leaders to block cooperation with President-elect Joe Biden’s transition team, escalating a standoff that threatens to impede the transfer of power and prompting the Biden team to consider legal action.

Officials at agencies across the government who had prepared briefing books and carved out office space for the incoming Biden team to use as soon as this week were told instead that the transition would not be recognized until the Democrat’s election was confirmed by the General Services Administration, the low-profile agency that officially starts the transition.

While media outlets on Saturday projected Biden as the winner, President Trump has not conceded the election.

“We have been told: Ignore the media, wait for it to be official from the government,” said a senior administration official, who like others spoke on the condition of anonymity because the person was not authorized to speak publicly.

Of even more concern is the firing of the Defense Secretary Mark Esper as well as a number of senior Defense officials. From CNN:

The Trump administration has carried out sweeping changes atop the Defense Department’s civilian leadership structure, removing several of its most senior officials and replacing them with perceived loyalists to the President.

The flurry of changes, announced by the Department of Defense in a statement roughly 24 hours after President Donald Trump fired Defense Secretary Mark Esper, have put officials inside the Pentagon on edge and fueled a growing sense of alarm among military and civilian officials, who are concerned about what could come next.

Four senior civilian officials have been fired or have resigned since Monday, including Esper, his chief of staff and the top officials overseeing policy and intelligence. They were replaced by perceived Trump loyalists, including a controversial figure who promoted fringe conspiracy theories and called former President Barack Obama a terrorist.

A senior defense official told CNN late Tuesday that “it appears we are done with the beheadings for now,” referring to the wave of ousted civilian leaders, including Esper.

Esper’s crime?  Resisting the deployment of troops on US streets to oppose Black Lives Matter protesters.  The reasons offered for these changes could be anything from spiting Biden to ensuring that Trump can return all soldiers from Afghanistan before he leaves to getting the Military ready to handle protests should Trump stay.  These are dark times …

Meanwhile in Court Trump’s voter fraud theatrics are not working.  As various cases are heard they are being shown up as lacking that one particular feature which is pretty important, hard evidence.

It is not as if Trump is a stranger to legal matters.  USA Today estimated in 2016 that Trump or Trump entities had been involved in 3,500 law suits, everything from conventional real estate litigation to settling fraud claims relating to Trump University or paying off a porn star.  From the USA Today article:

As he campaigns, Trump often touts his skills as a negotiator. The analysis shows that lawsuits are one of his primary negotiating tools. He turns to litigation to distance himself from failing projects that relied on the Trump brand to secure investments. As USA TODAY previously reported, he also uses the legal system to haggle over his property tax bills. His companies have been involved in more than 100 tax disputes, and the New York State Department of Finance has obtained liens on Trump properties for unpaid tax bills at least three dozen times.

The latest batch of litigation has not gone well with Trump 0-6 so far.  From the Murdoch owned Washington Post:

Since Election Day, President Trump has repeatedly claimed that a broad conspiracy of misdeeds — apparently committed in both Republican and Democratic states — had cost him the election.

“WATCH FOR MASSIVE BALLOT COUNTING ABUSE,” Trump tweeted Tuesday, the latest in a series of missives in which he has made misleading claims about the vote. Trump’s campaign has encouraged donors to contribute to a legal-defense fund so he can fight the cases in court.

But in the lawsuits themselves, even Trump’s campaign and allies do not allege widespread fraud or an election-changing conspiracy.

Instead, GOP groups for the most part have focused on smaller-bore complaints in an effort to delay the counting of ballots or claims that would affect a small fraction of votes, at best.

And, even then, they have largely lost in court.

The reason: Judges have said the Republicans did not provide evidence to back up their assertions — just speculation, rumors or hearsay. Or in one case, hearsay written on a sticky note.

The cases have been bizarre, like the claim that Republican observers had been barred from witnessing the vote count in Philadelphia which suffered from the fatal flaw that this was not actually true.  Again from the Washington Post:

Republican observers were there, after all. Trump had “a nonzero number of people in the room,” one of his attorneys conceded in federal court Thursday evening.

“I’m sorry, then what’s your problem?” asked U.S. District Judge Paul S. Diamond, who denied the request to halt the count.

And to top off the sense of foreboding Secretary of State Mike Pompeo said publicly that there will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration.  He may have been joking.  Time will tell.

The only rational conclusion I can draw from all that is happening is this:

58 comments on “Some men just want to see the World burn ”

  1. Tricledrown 1

    Trump is a spoilt entitled brat money = power and power corrupts absolute power = more corruption.

    Trump knows this so he is sending a message to all the prosecutors lining up when he leaves office that he is going to make as difficult as possible.

    People as powerful as Trump don't face the consequences of their actions as every day people ,That's why he gets away with predatory sexual behaviour,Tax fraud,treason,associating with the mafias.

  2. Ad 2

    There's plenty who still call for revolution from the hard left.

    But the revolution is already here from the right. Trump is but one name for it.

    The result is chaos and anomie – no matter who does it.

    The golfers who finished their round while a forest burned - BBC Culture

    Small countries, weaker groups in society, the poorer, the small business owner, the renter: these are the things that need rules that the rest of society abide by. They are rules that only states banding together can sustain.

    The super-rich don't need order; they game crisis. Nor do the top handful of countries. They make the rules. Witness China crushing Hong Kong's Parliament yesterday through arrests.

    As Robert Putnam argued recently, small and non-aligned states need to work harder together if a rules-based order to the world is to survive.

    And Prime Minister Ardern has a place to play in that if she can start conceiving of New Zealand as less a minor state and more a small power with Pacific influence.

    This chaos about to hit the United States over two months needs voices of conscience from good states to stand up and be heard loud.

    • Anne 2.1

      And Prime Minister Ardern has a place to play in that if she can start conceiving of New Zealand as less a minor state and more a small power with Pacific influence.

      Actually its my perception that is exactly what she is doing. For example, only yesterday she made it clear that any decisions on a Covid vaccine would take into account the needs of our Pacific neighbours.

      Yes, it is time for the good states to stand up and be heard aloud. Too much bowing and scraping towards the current regime and a scaredy-cat attitude has allowed the US situation to deteriorate to an alarming level.

      It's also time for other western governments to do likewise because the antics of Trump and his lackeys affects all of us and will continue to do so if they are not reined in.

      • Ad 2.1.1

        She's required to take into account New Zealand Realm countries.

        Remember in the previous term she stood in the UN and made some actual global noise?

        Now's the time to start again.

    • SPC 2.2

      The US of A is not a democracy – but an order of rule over the people. A constitutional republic.

      The GOP takes this to heart, it regards popular democracy as a form of socialism, something to be suppresssed. They probably view the increased voter turnout with alarm, so we can expect to see them leverage Trump's charges to obstruct future voting.

  3. Dennis Frank 3

    Remember that Trump got elected on an anti-establishment platform four years ago. No surprise that he keeps recycling that stance. Time to moderate was mid-term but he surprised me by not being that sensible. He's likely to tough it out now.

    So the question is the extent to which the establishment permits his stone-walling. If the Republicans stay onside & litigate to the max with him, that will test the resilience of the establishment. Believers of the principles of democracy will be sidelined by those who think democracy is won by whoever games the system best.

    So you, as a lawyer, wonder why he's using his lawyers now. You feel he ought to defer to convention and admit defeat already. That's not in his nature. He self-identified as a winner by being unconventional long ago & too late to stop now. He's providing us with excellent case analysis of why political psychology is a key frame to use.

    • Tricledrown 3.1

      The republicans can't afford to be negative like Trump as there are 2 Senate seats up for grabs in run offs in Georgia.

      Bob Dylan the rich man who does a crime he does no time.

  4. Andre 4

    Err, WaPo is owned by Bezos, not Murdoch. Which is the probable basis for The $750 Man's vendetta against Amazon.

    [Right you are Andre. Now corrected – MS]

    • SPC 4.1

      And the goon hired by Trump to run down the US mail service, his original job was to reduce the speed of delivery for Amazon.

  5. Stephen D 5


    This week in dystopia – or the United States of America

    Coup or conniption? That’s the question over Donald Trump replacing the civilian leadership of the Pentagon as he pushes the idea a “rigged” election robbed him of a second term.

    A historian of totalitarianism at Yale, Timothy Snyder, went there this week, tweeting: ‘What Donald Trump is attempting to do has a name: coup d'état. Poorly organized though it might seem, it is not bound to fail. It must be made to fail.’

  6. greywarshark 6

    A Radionz report.


    What powers does Trump still have? US law expert explains
    University of Wisconsin-Madison law school professor Robert Yablon told Checkpoint that Trump has the same power he always has had as president and can do what he wants, “within the standard bounds of the US Constitution and the law”.

    "… but in terms of running the government, issuing executive orders, issuing pardons, any of that kind of thing. He can do the day after the election what he could do the day before the election.

    "Executive orders can be fairly significant. The president has quite a bit of leeway to act unilaterally. When we're creating law in the United States, Congress needs to be involved. But the president, in the interstices of the law, can do a lot to direct how the government functions….

    "By law in the United States, there is a presidential transition process. Now, the current president has to facilitate that process and so far President Trump has refused to do so.

    "But normally as soon as the election is over the incoming president will form a transition team. That transition team will have access to the existing government and this is meant to facilitate a smooth transfer of power, so we do have that legal device.

  7. woodart 7

    maybe some on this site forget piggy muldoon doing the same sort of thing.

  8. Andre 8

    If you're looking for rational explanations for the refusal to concede, well, conceding would cut off one of the grifts he's currently got going. As always, follow the money.

    He's duping his cultists to donate to a PAC called Save America, which is being sold as fighting against fraud in this election. But the fine print says most of the money is going elsewhere, basically to a CovidCamacho slush fund.

    Save America, however, gets an early cut of the funds raised. The fine print shows that 60% of the funds go first to Save America — up to the $5,000 legal donation limit — and then to the Trump campaign's recount account. Forty percent will go to the Republican National Committee's operating account.

    Campaign finance experts say Trump is engaging in a bait-and-switch tactic with his supporters.

    "He's saying that he needs donors' money for election-challenge litigation, but he's putting the money into an account to be used for his political future," said Paul Ryan, the vice president for policy and litigation at Common Cause.


    The rules on spending by leadership PACs also are far more relaxed than those for campaign committees and do not restrict politicians from using donors' funds for personal expenses — a use forbidden in a presidential campaign account.

    "Leadership PACs are notoriously abused by politicians as slush funds without violating any laws," Ryan said.



    • Dennis Frank 8.1

      Yes, I saw news of that con too. Implementation of the Barnum theory (one born every minute). Rational self-interest perhaps, however clinging to power if no viable evidence of electoral fraud is available to fuel court cases isn't rational.

      Incidentally I reported the Georgia recount decision on OM whereas I probably ought to have put it here. It's due to Republican infighting.

    • mickysavage 8.2

      Fark that is such a brutal comment but with the background so accurate …

  9. velcro 9

    Its very clear there was industrial scale electoral fraud – sufficient to swing the result in Trump's favour. He is perfectly entitled to legally challenge the vote in the key swing states. After all, Al Gore did against Bush. Having said that, the legal hurdles are very high, and personally I don't think Trump will be successful. Just have patience and stop wild suppositions – it will work out in Biden's favour in due course

    • Andre 9.1

      It's not that the hurdles are high, particularly for cases in front of a Repug judge. It's that even the most partisan judges still need a teeny-tiny bit of evidence to hang a prejudgement onto, and precisely zero evidence for dodgy votes, or dodgy vote processing and counting, has been forthcoming. Except for a couple of Repug munters, one of whom tried to submit a ballot for his dead mother IIRC.

      Because even though judges get lifetime appointments, they're still subject to impeachment. And handing down an electorally significant judgement with absolutely no evidence to back it up would certainly be grounds for impeachment.

  10. ianmac 10

    The Inquiry into the 9/11 attack found that a major problem was that the long delay in settling the 2000 Election meant that the Transition being halted, caused big gaps in US security. There wasn't a proper connection between those who knew stuff and the ones who were supposed to be finding out and dealing to threats.

    Now the Federal funds have been with-held and the lack of exchange of info again poses the threat of another 9/11.

  11. Gyrogearloose 11

    Since the democrats and MSM are so adamant there was no fraud in the election process they should move fully to support Trumps efforts to find any….

    Going hard out trying to play down any irregularities plays into trumps hands…

    Like Twitter and MSM trying to censor the Hunter Biden hard drive revelations, it just made them look guilty and enraged Trump supporters.

    • Andre 11.1

      Nobody is trying to play down any irregularities or impede idiot Repug efforts to take their allegations to court.

      Quite the contrary. The sooner the allegations get to court, the sooner a Repug lawyer has to admit in front of a judge there is zero evidence for the allegation, and admit they are just blowing smoke and wasting everybody's time.

      Nobody censored the allegations around Hunter Biden's hard drive. The allegations were looked into, and were concluded to be a laughably inept attempt at a smear by bumbling idiot Palputin stooges (ie Ghouliani and Bannon) after Ghouliani refused to provide copies for anyone else to examine.

      Even funnier, even if the worst allegations (which have zero credibility, remember) were taken completely at face value, they didn't show anything dodgy on Joe Biden's part. They merely allegedly showed what everybody already knew – that Hunter sometimes traded on his surname for easy money and didn't actually deliver anything in return.


      • mickysavage 11.1.1

        "Quite the contrary. The sooner the allegations get to court, the sooner a Repug lawyer has to admit in front of a judge there is zero evidence for the allegation, and admit they are just blowing smoke and wasting everybody's time."

        I dream of these sorts of cases in court. If it was a local Court with local Judges they would hand you your arse on a plate and tell you to stop wasting their time.

        • Dennis Frank

          You might like the legal manoeuvres explored here: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/11/can-donald-trump-stay-in-office-second-term-president-coup

          “There will be a smooth transition to a second Trump administration,” Mike Pompeo, the secretary of state, said on Tuesday.

          Just joking? So the

          certification timeline is important because federal law says that as long as election results are finalized by 8 December this year, the result is “conclusive”. That provides a safeguard against Congress, which is responsible for counting the electoral college votes, from second-guessing election results. By dragging out the process, the Trump campaign may be seeking to blow past that deadline and create more wiggle room to second-guess the results.

          Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Nevada all have Democratic governors who would refuse to approve a set of Trump electors with the popular vote clearly showing Biden winning their state. Instead, they would submit the electors Biden is entitled to as the winner of the popular vote.

          It would then fall to Congress, which is charged with counting the votes from the electoral college, to decide what to do. The law that outlines the process for how Congress should handle a dispute in electors from a state is extremely confusing, but experts believe the slate backed by a state’s governor is the legally sound one. There is a rival theory that the president of the Senate, Mike Pence, could have control over the process. A dispute over electors between the US House and Senate is a worst-case scenario and the US supreme court would probably be asked to step in.

      • Gyrogearloose 11.1.2

        "Nobody censored the allegations around Hunter Biden's hard drive. The allegations were looked into, and were concluded to be a laughably inept attempt at a smear by bumbling idiot Palputin stooges"

        Guess you must live in one of those echo chambers…

        "Its the russians"…….. what more to say….

        NZ msm media shows similar biases as USA msm

        From your link " should be confirmed before they’re splashed on the front page. "

        I guess The Washington post never got the memo…. and wrote an arricle with headline

        "Postal worker recanted allegations of ballot tampering"

        In reply to that headline this was published

        "Veritas posted a video of Hopkins explicitly saying "I do not recant."


        Read from both the MSM and the alternative media, and somewhere between is more likely where the true story lies.

        [Fixed typo in user name]

        • Macro

          Guess you must live in one of those echo chambers…

          And you're not??

          • Gyrogearloose

            What echo chamber am I supposedly in?

            Does my questioning of the 'its Russia' narrative make you belive I live in an echo chamber.

            If so, how ironic as I see blaming Russia as proof you live in an ech chamber.

            If not how am i in an echo chamber.

            Please let me know as I am philosophically against echo chambers, and if I could not see I was in one I would like to know.

            • Incognito

              How would we know? How could we tell?

              Interestingly, the only two times you linked here were to the same site that is not known for being un-biased, balanced, non-partisan, or politically neutral and objective. What is that telling us?

              • Gyrogearloose

                Yes I read zerohedge.

                Yes it has clear biases in the opposite direction, and some of the articles come across as pure conspiracy theory.

                And sometimes articles in the msm are pure bulshit.

                Is the motherjones.com website linked by Andre is given as example objectivity?

                As i specifically mentioned, I read both msm and alternative…..

            • Macro

              Well, some one on this thread keeps repeating the phrase "it's Russia". And it's not me, and it's not Andre, and it's not incognito. So someone who claims to be "philosophically opposed to echo chambers" continues to echo an accusation that no one else on here has made.

              BTW, Hunter Biden was in Ukraine not Russia.

              • Gyrogearloose

                Quote Andre "laughably inept attempt at a smear by bumbling idiot Palputin stooges"

                I read that as 'its tussian interfretence"

                If it is something else please explain what it was supposed to mean.

                • Andre

                  "Palputin" refers to the rotting halloween pumpkin currently rage-tweeting with stubby thumbs from the White Supremacist House.

                  Of the hundreds of nicknames I could have used, choosing that one was bait to draw out your background views on some of the various disinformation efforts flying around. The way you took the bait successfully clarified that for me, thank you.

    • Andre 11.2

      BTW, if anyone's interested in a brief summary of the various lawsuits, Associated Press has put together a good one:


    • joe90 11.3

      When you've lost Bush's brain…

      edit: and you’re too toxic to handle..

      The largest law firm representing the Trump campaign or its allies in post-election litigation challenging votes in key states has withdrawn from an election lawsuit in Maricopa County, Arizona.

      Associate Presiding Civil Judge Daniel Kiley on Tuesday granted Snell & Wilmer’s request to withdraw as counsel of record for the Republican National Committee. The RNC had teamed-up with the Trump campaign and the Arizona Republican Party in the case, which alleges that Maricopa County incorrectly rejected some votes cast on Election Day.

    • Dick Michaels 11.4

      Ironic that it's now the right exposing election irregularities and fighting for democracy, while the left couldn't care less and just wants to install their new dictator.

      • Stuart Munro 11.4.1

        Nothing ironic about systematic fraud.

        And the Right never have and never will fight for democracy.

      • Wensleydale 11.4.2

        You kind of have to 'prove' the alleged irregularities though. That's the crux of the matter. They've yet to produce any evidence that hasn't been laughed out of a courtroom. It's all crap someone's cousin's neighbour's dog-walker's best friend read on Facebook. Meanwhile, the Orange Toddler continues skulking about the White House, randomly firing people he feels aren't sufficiently loyal. He's finally discovered what it's like to be told "No!", and his malignant narcissism impedes his ability to accept it.

  12. Maurice 12

    "Light touchpaper"

    "Stand well clear"

    70 million rednecks with Pickup Trucks may attend the inauguration …. but will they have their guns with them?

    • Velcro 12.1

      Virtually all the rioting and mayhem so far has been from the left – Antifa, BLM and the like. So far your 'rednecks' have been pretty restrained. And if Biden had won fair and square they would continue to be so

      • NZJester 12.1.1

        So running over people with vehicles and shooting people is "pretty restrained"?

        Did you know that Antifa is just a shortened form of the words "Anti Fascist". If you are not Anti Fascist then you are one. The only formal Antifa organization was the Allies during WW2 who fought against them.

        Antifa = Anti Nazi / Anti Neo Nazi.

        Most of the so called rioting and mayhem was declared that by the police while peaceful demonstrations where taking place and only became violent after the police started shooting tear-gas and rubber bullets. And most of that violence was by the police themselves.

  13. Velcro 13

    In their violent tactics against anyone who remotely disagrees with their extremist views Antifa resembles nothing so much as the Nazi Brownshirts. No big surprise there, national socialism and communism are just two sides of the same totalitarian coin – controlling the populace through intimidation, lies and brainwashing. Socialism used to be the Kinder version of communism. Today, as the cancel culture demonstrates – not so much.

    the two tragic incidents you refer to have back details which you should familiarise yourself with, which put a different perspective on them than that which you are trying to impose. They were sad individual events, and in no way counterbalance the indiscriminate mob violence of Antifa and BLM

    • joe90 13.1

      Antifa resembles nothing so much as the Nazi Brownshirts

      And self titled patriots resemble nothing so much as the barbaric Daesh.

      New filings claim there was a Plan B the militiamen had drawn up, that involved a takeover of the Michigan capitol building by 200 combatants who would stage a week-long series of televised executions of public officials.

      And, according to government documents now on file in lower Michigan court, there was also a Plan C — burning down the state house, leaving no survivors.


      Despite the violent nature of the charges, including an alleged plan to hold a mock treason trial for the governor of Michigan once she was kidnapped, several of the defendants have had bond reductions and are now free.


  14. Velcro 14

    The plot never occurred – it was foiled by the FBI. The anti government anarchists concerned were most akin to parts of the BLM movement

    • joe90 14.1

      Foiled or not, their motives were clear. At least four of the 13 suspects had turned up at the state capitol armed with AR-15s in an attempt to intimidate the state legislature and the Governor. When that failed, they escalated by plotting to emulate the murderous thugs they admired. And your attempt to minimise their actions leads one to think that you agree with them.

      btw, use the fucking reply function.

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