Stand up – for an inclusive, caring & sharing NZ

57 comments on “Stand up – for an inclusive, caring & sharing NZ ”

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1. Harriet 1

   19 June 2014 at 7:34 am

   ‘……We can see the ruthless, divisive, dirty tricks and bag of smears that the supporters of the status quo of inequality, and oligarchical power, are going to throw at those who support left wing values….”

   Well if they arn’t already doing that – then can you explain the low polling for Labour?

   Labour simply doesn’t have it’s act together to govern. Even by itself. There’s been no change at all from the last Labour government. How can you sell that?

   Old as Hillary comes to mind! [ and that’s oligarchical too btw]
   • karol 1.1

     19 June 2014 at 7:39 am

     The left has the means to take NZ back for Kiwis. Cunliffe has been under attack from the right and it’s shills in the MSM since before he became leader. They have been trying to knee cap him from the get go, with the help of some traitors within.

     He’s never been given the chance, or the endless ass-licking that Key has always had from those with the most power.

     The people will prevail, not the corporate media and its self-serving, slanted poll-narratives.
     • Intrinsicvalue 1.1.1

       19 June 2014 at 8:46 am

       Karol you are deluded. ‘The people’ are prevailing; over 50% of them support one single party, an unprecedented level of support in the MMP environment. And despite the best efforts of the left to smear Key from the moment he became National Party leader, he remains the most popular PM in the history of polling.
       • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1

         19 June 2014 at 9:37 am

         If you are right, then you have nothing to worry about eh?

         But since around 2/3 of people live under the median wage of $44K pa, I am sensing that you’re missing something here.
         • Anthony Bull 1.1.1.1.1

           19 June 2014 at 11:08 am

           Dude, learn the difference between median and average. You have nothing at all to back up that 2/3 of people live under the median wage – just making massive assumptions.

           1/2 of workers will be earning less than the median wage, and that will never change regardless of how high the median wage is.
           • Colonial Viper 1.1.1.1.1.1

             19 June 2014 at 11:12 am

             You’re quite correct, but I’m also pretty sure that roughly 2/3 of people in NZ live on less than the median wage of $44K pa. Its massively fertile ground for real left wing economic policy.
             • Blackcap …

               19 June 2014 at 11:49 am

               Hi Viper, it is impossible that 2/3 of people live under the median wage. It has to be half, purely by definition.
               • Shrubbery …

                 19 June 2014 at 1:00 pm

                 Yes it is possible – wage is not the same as income.
                 • Anthony Bull …

                   19 June 2014 at 4:17 pm

                   Thats just twisting semantics to make up for his brain-fart. You can’t say median wage and then try and include tax rebates, benefits, allowances etc – they are not part of a wage.
       • Tracey 1.1.1.2

         19 June 2014 at 9:40 am

         cigarettes are popular, so is alcohol. Potato chips and chocolate are cheaper than broccoli but very popular.
       • Mike the Savage One 1.1.1.3

         19 June 2014 at 1:19 pm

         “‘The people’ are prevailing; over 50% of them support one single party, an unprecedented level of support in the MMP environment. And despite the best efforts of the left to smear Key from the moment he became National Party leader, he remains the most popular PM in the history of polling.”

         Well, what a bizarrely “qualified” degree of stupidity, of one blinkered individual with also short sight and deaf ears, I fear.

         The poll results may have more to do with the REGULAR rants one hears on radio and TV stations, by one Mike Hosking, a Duncan Garner, Paddy Gower, Paul Henry and at times also one Sean Plunket and a few others, all so openly biased and pro Key and government, whenever a Nat MP or Minister says or does something stupid or wrong, that is swiftly forgiven and forgotten, but when there is just the slightest bit of stuff to question about Labour politicians, and also Green politicians, they are endlessly running them down, ridiculing them and whatever else they can do.

         With a mainstream media so blatantly biased, also where TVNZ was chastised for one sad incident with a former program manager or editor, who stood for a Labour candidacy, their reporters and moderators dare to say nothing much anymore, due to overly applied political correctness, we have little hope that any other results may be “bred”. And where a guy like the rather opportunistic and emotions exploiting John Campbell is considered “left”, how can common sense and any balance be found. The New Zealand media is clearly right of centre, almost across the board.

         Only if people get true, balanced and relevant information in news, reports and other programs, will they even know what the election is really all about. But when you get almost none of that, a lot of drivel, distraction, scandal reporting, personal attacks and slime or dirt campaigns, the public get tired, and too many follow the self fulfilling misguidance by unreliable polls, of which the latest is such a rogue one, you would have have an IQ below 60, to believe that it is representative of the true sentiment out there.

         The polls cannot surprise, as this election campaign is ending up very much as the last two, being determined by biased media and “opinion shapers”, and of course also by highly paid key spin experts working for the government.
     • Tracey 1.1.2

       19 June 2014 at 9:38 am

       peolle have to believe they will prevail.

       Many feel life is out of their hands so,

       Why care
       Why vote

       We need new messages with new actions. People have a right to thrive. A person born disabled us limited to tge benefit we give them. Their right to thrive is gone.

       A child born into domestic violence will not thrive.

       A child constantly ill from a cold and under heated home will not thrive
     • Chooky 1.1.3

       19 June 2014 at 1:55 pm

       +100 karol
2. Tiger Mountain 2

   19 June 2014 at 7:49 am

   Agree Karol. The torys squawking around The Standard yesterday shows they will do anything to try and stall progress. New lows are the job description of paid/unpaid tory commenters where ever they may infest.

   Amongst the heat of the current rhetoric one positive thing anyone can do is join the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions “Get out and vote” campaign. If you get just one more person to enrol and vote you will have played a positive role. It is party agnostic (though people often seek your opinion on parties and share theirs once engaged) and importantly emphasises actually voting.
   http://www.getoutandvote.org.nz
   it is easy to get a pack for neighbourhood and work.
   • Harriet 2.1

     19 June 2014 at 8:05 am

     “……one positive thing anyone can do is join the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions “Get out and vote” campaign. If you get just one more person to enrol and vote you will have played a positive role…..”

     yep. It’s a big role alright……..bigger than the role the Unions themselves have been playing inside Labour. They should’ve taken charge earlier…….about the time Helen left actually – as everything else in Labour was to small to fill that void – as we’ve all seen.
     • Tiger Mountain 2.1.1

       19 June 2014 at 8:32 am

       Harriet, your comments are partly incoherent and at major distance from the facts. I do work for unions and know in detail how unions interact with the NZ Labour Party. You are talking out your rear end.
   • Tracey 2.2

     19 June 2014 at 8:42 am

     i have bought two tickets for my nephews to a rockenrol concert. I wanted to donate and to raise their awareness… They use social like nobodys business so thought it might be a good way to try and do my bit. With me not working money is tight but i know many many people way worse off than me so consider this a effort on behalf of many
     • Colonial Viper 2.2.1

       19 June 2014 at 8:45 am

       thank you Tracey
     • Ad 2.2.2

       19 June 2014 at 9:24 am

       That is fantastic and good on you.
   • lprent 2.3

     19 June 2014 at 8:56 am

     Yesterday I was dumping the first timers who couldn’t manage to write a coherent comment, and passing others through on probation who could write a coherent comment. In the latter case, two deteriorated to munters and got changed to spam.

     But on the whole we seem to have managed to get reasonably literate righties. After nearly 7 years running this site, it looks like we have finally managed some genetic changes through natural selection.
     • Harriet 2.3.1

       19 June 2014 at 10:52 am

       Yeah I know what you mean – some fool over at the right wing Kiwi Blog called me a ‘defective loser with a small dick’ – just last week actually.

       Coathanger from the gene pool that fellow.
       • lprent 2.3.1.1

         19 June 2014 at 11:14 am

         Probably me. I was stirring the mindless mass of sewage last week to see if there were any signs of intelligence. I tend to use dick metaphors whenever I see people whose brains have been starved of oxygen because of sustained personal massaging of other small organs. I find that if you get them angry then they tend to return from their self-induced vegetative state.

         Were you one of those?

         I afraid that, unlike karol, I really can’t be bothered being a nice person. Takes all kinds to make a world eh?

         But you get used to this kind of thing on the net. Politeness tends to be minimal, as does claiming authority without skills and knowledge, and all those other things so beloved by the right.
3. miravox 3

   19 June 2014 at 7:53 am

   Agree Karol. Just this week we have our foreign policy rolled back by decree and a marine sanctuary opened for oil exploration.

   Instead of talking about state funding for political parties and discussing what the foreign policy changes mean to how New Zealander’s see their place in the world the talk is about spew from National’s mini Karl Rove and his side kick. It’s as if they think politics is a game of rugby rather than the setting for people’s lives.

   I hope Labour is expressing incredulity at the shallowness of the discource rather than going on the defensive. There’s nothing that needs defending on their side.
4. mickysavage 4

   19 June 2014 at 8:17 am

   Hear hear. Well said Karol.
5. Tracey 5

   19 June 2014 at 8:38 am

   Well said. All anyone can do is keep speaking up. Keep challenging the status quo.

   I saw collins commenting on the glenn report. She looked tired but was saying there would be no change to the burden of proof. First off, the glenn report contained no recommendations. Second had she read had time to rad it and if not say so instead of dismissing something not recommended in it.

   Third someone needs to repeat over and over and over that issues involving children, violence, poverty need to be round table with all parties discussing solutions. Not point scoring, not ideology but cross party.

   Yesterday on prime and tv 3 news mr liu’s name was mentioned three times per report. Not once was his guilty plea to violence on his partner and her mother.
6. Lefty 6

   19 June 2014 at 8:48 am

   Karol is so right.

   But Labour has to give us something to rally around. Just defending them against the attacks of the right is not enough. They have to stop pissing around with policies to lift the retirement age and line the pockets of financial institutions through compulsory savings and come out with policies that will actually benefit the working class they profess to represent.

   And they show no sign of doing that.

   For example they could:

   Starting to build a shit load of houses and finance people into them the day after they take government.

   An overhaul of employment legislation that give workers some real protection against bullying and exploitation and unions the ability to organise effectively.

   Restore benefit cuts of the Ruth Richardson era, end beneficiary bashing and start work on implementing a universal basic income.

   Scrap university fees and introduce large scale practically based apprenticeships so we can put an end to the nonsense of constantly having to import skilled workers.

   Scrap the Reserve Bank Act and start behaving like a proper government and take control over its functions.

   Sack everybody in treasury and start again.

   Bring the SOEs under direct government control – they have been a failure as has the mad idea they should be returning a financial dividend rather than a social one.

   Ban the use and production of unnecessary products that are emitting carbon instead of silly emissions trading schemes and carbon taxes.

   Reform the police force to make them accountable.

   And so it goes. The choices are endless.

   All that is lacking is enough courage to step boldly forward and ask New Zealanders to follow.
   • Tiger Mountain 6.1

     19 June 2014 at 9:25 am

     Totally agree with Lefty’s list, however Labour needs conditionally defending right now whether we like it or not because the absolute requirement is denying the Key lot a third term if forward progress is to be made.

     There is a high likelihood of security force involvement in digging the ‘recent old’ letter up. The supply chain of the info is kept secret or deniable and passed through the corporate right networks which may include ’nomes still in or associated with Labour.

     Luckily there are now parties to the left of Labour to vote for. LP have dragged their heels for too long on bold measures that might attract mass support so Greens, Mana and IMP are taking the lead like the Alliance did previously.

     Ultimately things will be tackled more head on like in Venezuela but New Zealand needs a circuit breaker and some fired up political leadership around policies like Lefty’s suggestions.
     • Colonial Viper 6.1.1

       19 June 2014 at 9:41 am

       Labour doesn’t get many more chances. If it doesn’t quickly undertake its historical mission to make NZ the place it needs to be in what will otherwise become a very difficult and tenuous future, then there isn’t much need for it.
   • Tracey 6.2

     19 June 2014 at 9:42 am

     you can vote green or mana to get these policies.
     • Lefty 6.2.1

       19 June 2014 at 10:10 am

       You can get those policies from Greens of Mana but until/unless there is a massive transfer in voter loyalty it will take a Labour led government to deliver on them.
       And that is the problem – Labour is still showing no desire to lead a progressive coalition with radical policies of its own to forge a left consensus around.
       Until they do it doesn’t matter how bad National is, it is going to be difficult for people to believe things will be much better by getting rid of them.
       • Tracey 6.2.1.1

         19 June 2014 at 12:57 pm

         so, until others vote in big enough numbers for greens or mana you will stick with labour? That is your choice, just tryingto understand.
         • Lefty 6.2.1.1.1

           19 June 2014 at 2:06 pm

           No Tracey I am will not vote for labour. I will be looking to the left of them but I am trying to point out that National will not be defeated this election unless Labour is able to pull its weight and get its traditional supporters out to vote for it.
           • Anthony Bull 6.2.1.1.1.1

             19 June 2014 at 4:22 pm

             What is a traditional Labour supporter though?

             They used to be the working class – however that crowd has well and truly shifted to National as they have shifted to the center.
           • Tracey 6.2.1.1.1.2

             19 June 2014 at 4:31 pm

             the undecided in the polls and tge numbers that want a change of govt is a pointer to national going dirty through their great unwashed, slater. Labour may not be a big worry to them, but the left is.

             The enrolment drive and the imp advertising is a wildcard this govt didnt count on, and nothing scares money, like money that isnt under their control.
7. geoff 7

   19 June 2014 at 8:53 am

   Well said, karol. The media are blood-thirsty for something like a repeat of the conference where gower nagged at cunliffe. Gives them a chance at the front page of the paper instead of buried in the middle, see the herald online this morning for example.
8. vto 8

   19 June 2014 at 9:04 am

   I agree with the sentiment and importance of what this post says. Unfortunately though, given the number of decades now that we have suffered under the individualism, greed is good, money is the driver, neoliberal mantra, I suspect it will be a generational change that is required to bring us back to the values of community. Or perhaps something more extreme aka revolutionary ..

   There are simply too many people now who have spent too much of their lives under this umbrella. They think it has some sort of natural order about it, which of course is complete bunkum and nothing could be further from the truth about how humanity operates and has done since day dot.

   But this great glob of people don’t know that – they are too busy worrying about whether their house prices are keeping up with the Joneses. And that focuses the entire issue back to the big problem facing the left now today. Rising house prices. You simply cannot beat it in an election year – everyone thinks things are rosy as all hell……. they don’t realise that it is a form of hell (picture evil banksters smiling in the background).

   I had an awful exchange with a poster john on the James Dann Rebuild Christchurch post yesterday which imo encapsulates this entire issue, namely the drivers that should be driving society and community. Poster john focussed entirely on the money with not a jot of acknowledgement of the issue under discussion, namely the wellbeing of the children of east Chch and their schools. To him it was all about the money and nothing else got a look in. I reacted very badly to his approach, having lived and living through it all and seen the effects…

   It is truly appalling. Unfortunately I don’t see it changing quickly, and I tend to be a cup half full type …..
   • Tracey 8.1

     19 June 2014 at 9:33 am

     slylands answer to everything is look to the market… Same attitude that says economy and money rank higher than people while chattering that if there is money the peolle will benefit despite little evidence.

     People have a right to thrive not just survive
     • Colonial Viper 8.1.1

       19 June 2014 at 9:47 am

       Moneybags Logic (Dmitry Orlov)

       …If this sort of public policy seems self-destructive to you, that’s probably because it is. Whenever it is allowed to run its course, the results are abysmal—especially for the rich who continued to get richer, whose corpses end up festooning lampposts and whose arterial spray adds a touch of color to city squares.

       Now, you’d think that at least a few rich people here and there might realize this and do something about it; after all, they can’t all be completely stupid. Well, I think that it’s not a question of intelligence; it’s a question of sentience. These people are not people, they are moneybags. And moneybags have a logic of their own: I call it “moneybag logic.” This logic says that having more money is always good, having less money is always bad, and that therefore everyone should do everything possible to make sure that there is always more money. If that requires turning the Earth into a polluted, radioactive, lifeless desert, so be it.

       As the author Victor Pelevin once observed, “Everything has deadlocked on money, and money has deadlocked on itself.”

       http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/moneybag-logic.html
       • Tracey 8.1.1.1

         19 June 2014 at 1:01 pm

         oppression and feudalism went white collar, with firms like crosby texter etc making the message palatable. That is where the next breakthrough has to come, imo. I have no idea how you pierce that veil. Was it hooton exposed inollow men who made the comment about the truth? And he remains a cheerleader.
   • Mike the Savage One 8.2

     19 June 2014 at 1:40 pm

     “There are simply too many people now who have spent too much of their lives under this umbrella. They think it has some sort of natural order about it, which of course is complete bunkum and nothing could be further from the truth about how humanity operates and has done since day dot.”

     People do not get taught, encouraged and do not learn anymore, that they have rights, power and can make things change and move. I see this daily, and I hear it daily and it distresses me often. Once people talked face to face, but go out and about now, most walk around gazing at tiny screens of smart phones and tablets, not even noticing what happens around them.

     They are mesmerised almost 24/7, from the time they rise in the morning, until they drop into bed. In private and at work, it is channeled communication and functioning along modeled, clearly defined ways, leaving little individual freedom to express yourself and to do things.

     Apart from that it is all about getting money earned, which means working, after a while working more, after yet more time working even more than ever before, and otherwise try and get study and training opportunities to compete with others for education, that you need to get a “privilege” to work (or rather “slave”) and keep up with the Jones’. Daily or even hourly stock exchange, interest rate and currency exchange reports, trivial or scandal type news bits, with little real information contents, they keep people focused on core messages, work, earn, pay and buy. Slave and shop, and otherwise shut up and go away, are so many messages.

     Try to reach your bank or a government agency, you wait in endless waiting lines for 0800 numbers to access automated services, or you go online and do the same via websites.

     An over mechanised, over digitalised, overly normed, numbered, de-humanised lifestyle and mentality is everywhere, and so people are just little tiny wheels or components in the system, not humans anymore. Is it any wonder they behave as they are?

     Society is screwed in that sense, and to change it, something major may need to happen.
9. vto 9

   19 June 2014 at 9:07 am

   And how is it that the media is owned by big business corporations yet don’t have to acknowledge their extreme conflict of interest in operating in the media.

   Every single media outlet should be required by law to state on their front page who they are owned by, and what stance those owners politics has taken over the years. By law.
10. Ad 10

    19 June 2014 at 9:25 am

    Totally.

    And to guy in the photograph expresses it pretty well for me as well.

    Motivation if any more needed for thenext 90 days.
11. blue leopard 11

    19 June 2014 at 9:31 am

    Thank you Karol.

    This is such a perfect and sane response to the insanity yesterday.
    What a lovely thing to have something positive and affirming to read, excellent, thanks again.
    • Tracey 11.1

      19 June 2014 at 9:45 am

      yesterday, imo, was all about the right shutting down discourse on honesty in politics. Thereby making it a non topic, a non issue. Acceptable.

      People need to keep speaking truth to power or we are sunk far deeper than we are now.
      • blue leopard 11.1.1

        19 June 2014 at 10:13 am

        Yes so true.
12. Rob 12

    19 June 2014 at 10:57 am

    I really fail to see how you can claim that your side is more uniting and inclusive than the other side. Lets face reality, you hate them as much as they hate you. I find these types of statements similar to the “we have god on our side , that is why we are just and right” jingoisms that accompany war.

    You should state that we are inclusive and caring as long as your politcal beliefs are the same as us, otherwise you are a scab tory etc. etc and we sill set Felix, Draco, OAB and others to sort you out.
    • vto 12.1

      19 June 2014 at 11:49 am

      don’t be an egg Rob… “I really fail to see how you can claim that your side is more uniting and inclusive than the other side”

      The left is about cooperatives and the like – that is uniting and inclusive by its very nature

      The right is about individualism and the like – that is neither uniting nor inclusive. by its very nature

      sheesh

      and just a bit further, perhaps you could dwell on the manner of human existence since day dot – has it been cooperative, or has it been individualistic?…
    • Tracey 12.2

      19 June 2014 at 1:06 pm

      hate is pretty strong. I dont hate the right. I dont think key is evil. I do think he lies and deliberately misleads and that the right uses money to pay people to help them massage their message and lies.
      • vto 12.2.1

        19 June 2014 at 1:23 pm

        Hate and other strong terms are interesting … and often I think they are entirely justified…

        As Tana Umaga famously put it once – this aint tiddly winks. This is real life and the decisions politicians and their supporters make have immediate, direct and real impacts on people’s lives.

        For example, the decisions made around the schools of East Christchurch and the effect that has had on our children, already heavily traumatised by spending a huge chunk of their lives in life-threatening times with 14,000 earthquakes over three years… I genuinely have very strong and negative feelings towards people who dumped this on our children, and hate is a very apt description. It is entirely justified… (see the James Dann Rebuild Chch thread from yesterday)

        … if someone came along and dumped on your home and your children would you hate them? Especially in light of the fact that it is deliberate, unnecessary, and there is no genuine compassion?

        Hate is justified. So is anger. So are other strong emotive terms (of course they need to be kept relatively under control lest things spiral completely out of control). I loathe these people at times and see no reason why I should back away from it. It aint tiddly winks, it is our children’s lives. They can fuck off as far as I am concerned.

        I would be interested in others views on the extent to which such strength of emotion etc is justified in such circumstances.
        • Rob 12.2.1.1

          19 June 2014 at 3:00 pm

          So VTO you hate, I got that. Not a very inclusive and caring trait is it.

          I understand your comments about school closures, so tell me that no left focussed caring and guiding Govt ever closed down schools.

          Point proven I think.
        • Tracey 12.2.1.2

          19 June 2014 at 4:35 pm

          yes but tana and mealamu were doing a spear tackle on the lions sjipper, so be careful with your analogy. Unless you agree with that kind of violence cos its done by your team?
          • Rob 12.2.1.2.1

            19 June 2014 at 4:56 pm

            Tracey I think Tana said that in a Super 14 game, not as a result of that opening tackle in the Lions series. Anyway point taken.
13. Frank Underwood 13

    19 June 2014 at 12:59 pm

    And of course you Karol, would never do any sort of personal attacks or negative campaigning or posts against National and John Key.

    [lprent: No she doesn’t. She just posts her viewpoint clearly and with meticulous research. I suggest before you comment here again, that you read the policy and research the authors. At present your comment appears to be too stupid to get past the first comment censor (ie me) except as comedic relief. ]
    • Tracey 13.1

      19 June 2014 at 1:08 pm

      got some links there frank?
    • fender 13.2

      19 June 2014 at 1:36 pm

      haha

      Underwood sounds like another word for a slater..
14. Tel 14

    19 June 2014 at 1:47 pm

    Well summarized Karol.

    National is running its election campaign and it’s a tired ugly joke. There is no policy, and I’ll be surprised if anything of any value ever gets announced. The intention seems clear; dis-credit David Cunliffe, and National policy will be replaced with a broad brush “if you agree with our policies for the past 6 years and want stable govt vote for us” Any village idiot can see this will clear the way for more asset sales, crown land disposal and plundering, education for sale, and worse, a continuation on the war on the poor.

    It staggers me New Zealanders (and especially some of the media) buy into our Prime Minister who is possibly one of the least trust worthy people in NZ politics ever. It horrifies me that we’re sleepwalking to another three years of continued child poverty as a fearful middle class feather their housing retirement nest eggs in the form of untaxed income as though this was in any way sustainable.

    I’d like to say it would be good for all New Zealanders to be able to sit down and make a considered choice between all the parties at election time based on inclusive meritorious policies, but voters seem more interested in the watching the weird titillation in the form of John Key masquerading as Benny Hill being chased by large bouncing breasted women hither and tither.

    Chin up David Cunliffe, and stay the course.
15. philj 15

    20 June 2014 at 10:19 pm

    xox
    JK has the power, the contacts and the will. He can dump on Cunliffe indirectly. He knows. I wonder how?

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