The Press Debate – tonight, livestreamed on Stuff

Written By: - Date published: 2:00 pm, September 2nd, 2014 - 227 comments
Categories: david cunliffe, election 2014, john key - Tags: ,

The second big head-to-head between David Cunliffe and John Key will be livestreamed on Stuff from 7pm!

The Press leaders’ debate is where Key pulled his “show me the money” quote in 2011. And he’s going to be taking this far more seriously than the last debate where he tried to play it casual and snarky and got hammered, even with Hosking trying to help him out and asking hard-hitting questions about perfect date nights.

Since then he’s lost a Cabinet Minister, the Dirty Politics saga has stayed high in the news, and his campaign has just been negative, negative, negative. His office are going to be pulling out all the stops to bring the political narrative back under control.

Cunliffe still has a lot to prove here – you could even argue the pressure’s going to be worse after he’s proved he can take the fight to Key. But he’s got strong positive policies to talk about and a real plan to make New Zealand a better place, and I reckon he can do it.

I plan to livetweet it on the #KeyvCunliffe hashtag – are you tuning in?

227 comments on “The Press Debate – tonight, livestreamed on Stuff ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Tony 1
    2 September 2014 at 2:10 pm

    Im looking forward to seeing the $lime Minister dripping with unease tonight.

    • aerobubble 1.1
      2 September 2014 at 2:39 pm

      Cunliffe should just come right and say what we all think. Key, why are you such a shit PM? Style won’t cut it.

      • Puckish Rogue 1.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 2:53 pm

        Which is funny as even Cunliffe praised Keys performane as leader during the debate

        • Enough is Enough 1.1.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 3:10 pm

          Would be funny if it was true

        • Matthew Whitehead 1.1.1.2
          2 September 2014 at 6:38 pm

          It’s almost as if he has a disadvantage with the public’s trend of anti-intellectualism and the media working so hard for the National Party, and wanted to talk up his opponent to remind people of that fact, even though his opponent is not the reason he’s actually at a disadvantage.

  2. Enough is Enough 2
    2 September 2014 at 2:31 pm

    Key is on the ropes.

    As I predicted before the last debate, Key would be found wanting by the far superior debater and orator Cunliffe. People actually thought a Cunliffe draw would be a win, which was silly talk.

    Tonight Cunliffe must maintain his superiority and really show Key for the fraud he is. Its time to provide the media with the narrative that Cunliffe is better than Key.

    We know it. Now lets show it.

    • Rose 2.1
      2 September 2014 at 2:48 pm

      I hope Cunliffe doesn’t interrupt Key. David doesn’t need to. Just let Key tell lies. They will be refuted later in the media.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 2.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 3:00 pm

        Disagree: Key has very little to say apart from telling lies about the Left. When he starts that routine it’s John Campbell’s responsibility to shut him down; there’s no reason Cunliffe can’t draw attention to it.

        • framu 2.1.2.1
          2 September 2014 at 3:49 pm

          considering that its one sided and the first “fact check” is actually an exercise in semantics i think you should just stick to link whoring whale oil

          christ PR – why do you make it so easy?

          • Puckish Rogue 2.1.2.1.1
            2 September 2014 at 3:54 pm

            christ PR

            I like that, I was going to change my name to that but it put me in moderation…maybe later

            • framu 2.1.2.1.1.1
              2 September 2014 at 4:42 pm

              problem is – jesus wasnt scared about answering a question (according to oral repetitions of ancient history)

              – completely the opposite of what youve just done

      • Kiwiri 2.1.3
        2 September 2014 at 3:07 pm

        When Key attempts to misrepresent Labour’s (or scaremonger with Greens’) policies, Cunliffe should graciously and politely point out right away that Cunliffe himself will clarify/put forward Labour’s policies or explain how the way forward will be developed with the Greens.

      • Crunchtime 2.1.4
        2 September 2014 at 4:00 pm

        Why shouldn’t Cunliffe interrupt Key? Cunliffe was interrupted countless times during that first debate, cut off by both Key and his lackey doing the “mediating”, Mr Hosking.

        It was disgusting the number of times all 3 of them were speaking at once..

  3. disturbed 3
    2 September 2014 at 2:32 pm

    Yes we will watch gone key, opps I mean jone key.

    he s truly a pathetic hollow man.

    [Stephanie: Comment edited. Please keep conspiracy theories to Open Mike, and be advised I am keen to avoid any anti-Semitic implications in this thread.]

  4. Tigger 4
    2 September 2014 at 2:56 pm

    Drinking game around Key’s spin lines/crutches anyone?

    Left wing smear campaign.
    Everyone does it.
    Does it matter?
    At the end of the day.

    • Kiwiri 4.1
      2 September 2014 at 3:00 pm

      I can’t recall.

      I don’t have the details.

    • Rosie 4.2
      2 September 2014 at 4:11 pm

      You mean have a drink every time Key drops one of his lines?

      No thanks! I value my liver!

      Not to mention getting in peak physical condition for celebrating on 20th September where there will be more than a trickle of bubbles šŸ˜€

  5. venezia 5
    2 September 2014 at 3:01 pm

    So livestreamed only – not on TV! That excludes a good section of the population.

  6. marty mars 6
    2 September 2014 at 3:47 pm

    It may be time for cunliffe to really try and get up keys nose – he could do that by just smiling and shaking his head in a statesmanlike manner – key won’t like that, not even slightly.

    Repeating the word ‘dirty’ numerous times would work too imo

    • Puckish Rogue 6.1
      2 September 2014 at 3:59 pm

      The more Key talks the better for Key, the more Cunliffe stops Key by interrupting the better it is for Cunliffe and the more they try to talk over each other the worse it is for the viewing public

  7. anker 7
    2 September 2014 at 3:55 pm

    I think we need a strategy for local candidates meetings. It looks like the strategy from the right is to refuse to disguise DP, left wing smear campaign, etc, etc.

    I wonder if any one has any thoughts about this, or just let it happen and concentrate on the bigger picture?

  8. sabine 8
    2 September 2014 at 3:57 pm

    I am somewhat confused by this debate. Why is it not on TV?
    what is the point of a debate that only those with Computers and decent Internet Connection can access?
    What am I missing?

    • Rosie 8.1
      2 September 2014 at 4:16 pm

      You have a point sabine. I know some folks who don’t have a computer, and use the ones at the library, and also some folks that only have a dial up connection. I guess the assumption is that “everyone has a computer, laptop or tablet”

    • cogito 8.2
      2 September 2014 at 4:16 pm

      Agreed.

      Should be on tv to reach maximum numbers of voters…. or is this another sneaky way of REDUCING voter turnout?

      Anyone know if it is at least being broadcast on radio, like the finance debate from Queenstown last week?

    • weka 8.3
      2 September 2014 at 6:45 pm

      “I am somewhat confused by this debate. Why is it not on TV?”

      Stuff, who are organising the debate, are not broadcasters except on the internet. I assume that if they wanted to broadcast it on TV they’d have to pay.

  9. hoom 9
    2 September 2014 at 4:20 pm

    Interesting batch of policy out today in time for this debate
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/policies/10451013/Labour-backs-national-flag-review

    And Key conceding that Brownlee has failed at running CERA
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11317909

    • Tracey 9.1
      2 September 2014 at 4:32 pm

      Brownlee, Brownlee? Rings a bell…

      Formerly shadow minister for political correctness, minister at the opening of Pike River but strangely absent when a resignation was needed at same…threw someone down the stairs at a national party conference

    • crocodill 9.2
      2 September 2014 at 7:51 pm

      Now finally a Labour policy that caters to my needs. If they change the NZ flag to a yellow turnip on a pink background, I’ll vote for them.

  10. Tracey 10
    2 September 2014 at 5:50 pm

    8 ministers resigned or disciplined. This isnt a man in control, its a Cabinet running amok. Cunliffe could tell him under his leadership the Cabinet behaviour has been appalling… He has lost control…

    List them
    Worth
    Wong
    Williamson
    Heatley
    Power
    Collins ( eventually but allowed back in cos she controls him
    Dunne

    So many its hard to recall

    • Liberal Realist 10.1
      2 September 2014 at 6:10 pm

      You can include all of the Act nut jobs /criminals since Act is effectively a proxy of National.

      • Tracey 10.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 6:25 pm

        Ah yes, John Banks..

        So BOTH coalition parties were resigned out portfolios.

        Maori Party retained some integrity….

    • crocodill 10.2
      2 September 2014 at 7:57 pm

      Amok… now there is a fascinating word. It details an interesting cultural behaviour in Malay/Indonesian men (women don’t do it apparently) where they grab anything nearby that approximates a weapon and try to kill either themselves or people around them. If they aren’t killed by bystanders, or succeed in committing suicide, they faint and when they awake they have amnesia. This could explain National’s inability to take responsibility for any of their actions while in government.

  11. feijoa 11
    2 September 2014 at 5:57 pm

    Rather than admitting Dirty Politics contains the truth, John Key is saying the left are just as bad and they do it too.
    That’s pretty offensive for the left to be tarred with that brush, but sadly a lot of the public seem to be sucked in to this lie.
    David , please don’t let yourself be dragged down to his level in the mudpond of filth and lies

  12. Matthew Hooton 12
    2 September 2014 at 6:24 pm

    I think Key won.

    • Tracey 12.1
      2 September 2014 at 6:26 pm

      Oh you are SO funny. Completely lacking any moral compass but so funny.

    • dv 12.2
      2 September 2014 at 6:29 pm

      What did he win Matthew?

    • Ffloyd 12.3
      2 September 2014 at 9:03 pm

      Matt. Didn’t see it all but think again. Key is an embarrassment to the whole country.

    • Rich 12.4
      2 September 2014 at 11:32 pm

      Nice street you live on in Parnell, Matthew, drove down it a few months ago.

      You thought Key was having a go at your decision to stop drinking based on your statement of a few weeks ago. That’s not how they work, I guess you don’t encrypt your emails?

      And you have already found out that the club is small, very small. You’re not a member as you should be able to figure out. I guess that means you’re one of (the rest of) us. So welcome.

    • tricledrown 12.5
      3 September 2014 at 12:41 am

      Machiavellian Henchman!
      Your OCD is out of controlll
      Over Confidence Disorder
      LOL
      Love of Obsessive Liars

  13. Phil Williams 13
    2 September 2014 at 6:27 pm

    Key will be primed for this, if he manages even an adequate showing he will be reported to have won. This is the best the red faced Blues can hope for from Key, Make or break for him. If he has, or is given, enough wiggle he may put in a credible (where credible may be defined as palatable to the right) performance. Cullen can not afford to let that happen tonight and should go for any weakness evident.

  14. disturbed 14
    2 September 2014 at 7:12 pm

    David clapped for Key, with crowd.

    key scowled back afterwards only.

    Key says we delivered strong Government.

    DC said he wants your vote to make NZ a fairer better place to bring a family up in.

    We will bring more jobs and develop our economy with a better policy with a stronger voice in your own area

    Liked that bit

  15. geoff 15
    2 September 2014 at 7:29 pm

    Key is going full oik

  16. jimekus 16
    2 September 2014 at 7:32 pm

    Key sounds like he is drunk.

  17. Weepus beard 17
    2 September 2014 at 7:35 pm

    Key is so short. Much shorter than I expected.

  18. Kevin Welsh 18
    2 September 2014 at 7:36 pm

    Looks like we got shouty John tonight.

  19. weka 19
    2 September 2014 at 7:39 pm

    “I lived in cardboard box…”

  20. DS 20
    2 September 2014 at 7:40 pm

    Someone needs to start a drinking game.

    Take a shot every time Key mentions his mother.

  21. Adrian 21
    2 September 2014 at 7:45 pm

    Key is a rambling incoherent boofhead, he is very very nervous drinking like a fish andconstantly licking his lips.

  22. KPC 22
    2 September 2014 at 7:46 pm

    Interesting…I can only access the live feed when shonkey is holding court, the rest goes to black screen and nothingness. I’m absolutely horrified to say that I think there may be tampering of the feed. Is that possible?

    The other concern is the obvious bias in the room, by paid or party political attendees, and keys obvious delight in having the stage managed his way by the ‘owned’ press.

    Why do the MSN still feed at this trough? Were they not taught in the modern era to think laterally/vertically and for themselves?

    • SpaceMonkey 22.1
      2 September 2014 at 7:50 pm

      It was doing same for me on laptop but is working fine on the tablet. Video and audio are still not sync’ed.

  23. Sanctuary 23
    2 September 2014 at 7:46 pm

    my stuff feed has crashed.

  24. ScottGN 24
    2 September 2014 at 7:47 pm

    Guess who looks like a prime minister out of those two?

  25. Dont worry. Be happy 25
    2 September 2014 at 7:50 pm

    Keys mike is turned up. Cunliffes one is down….

  26. blue leopard 26
    2 September 2014 at 7:53 pm

    Key is boring, I just switch off to what he is saying because it sounds like he is making it up.

  27. SpaceMonkey 27
    2 September 2014 at 7:58 pm

    Sounds like Key is itching to leak from his top draw…

  28. weka 28
    2 September 2014 at 7:58 pm

    re DP, Key named 3 things that Labour did, did anyone catch what they were?

    Williams going to Australia

    Taping of the cocktail party

    ??

  29. KPC 29
    2 September 2014 at 8:00 pm

    Fek…Key is still playing Filthy Politics on The Press debate tonight and please God he doesn’t get away with this.

  30. weka 30
    2 September 2014 at 8:03 pm

    This whole blogging, ‘the left are just as bad’ thing really needs sorting out.

    • blue leopard 30.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:07 pm

      +1

      • Colonial Viper 30.1.1
        3 September 2014 at 12:17 am

        “Political blogs are a part of modern day life. We all know that. The difference is that John Key’s office has used state power and tax payers money to play this game of dirty politics. He’s personally played it through disgusting, disreputable blogs like Whaleoil. That’s behaviour which undermines NZ democracy, it’s the kind of behaviour that the Prime Minister has been a central party to, and it’s the kind of dirty attack politics Labour is going to put an end to.”

        [Cue hard core Inquiry and criminal investigation measures].

  31. Paul 31
    2 September 2014 at 8:04 pm

    Another Keyism
    “I’ll tell you what.”

  32. disturbed 32
    2 September 2014 at 8:05 pm

    Strange sound as Key’s voice screaming while David’s voice was calm and firm.

    Education argument was side-lined to health, and David was better with his policies of preventive treatments before people die.

    Housing plan was put forward by David while Key just tried to make folly of how David’s model house stuff up last week.

    No Positive approach from Key at all.

    Key just hashes over the past history of housing and says Government shouldn’t be the sole provider of rental housing.

    David will fix housing and stop the destruction of state housing.

    Key says next week we will speak of tax cuts, but Labour will bring five new taxes but he will if they have the room give some tax relief.

    The sound is crap stuff. and Key’s microphone was up high and David’s was very low.

    Key sounded like a loon screaming.

    On economics Key was non specific while Cunliffe was coming up with a lot of specifics.

    Key was screaming at David and David said rightly, look John I didn’t talk over you.

    Key said we need to lift peoples wages,? didn’t we hear this six years ago.

    David said John we are always using borrowed money to get by, for foreign tax speculators.

    Capitol gains tax is good but Key says no I know its not.

    Key says tax inspectors will hound you all.

    Dirty Politics.
    David what would you do.
    David say’s John Key is setting an investigation that wont be any of Slater’s emails??.

    Key said he will fix the issue himself. Non specific.

    Question from the floor to John Key,
    What confidence can you give us no dirty politics is not going on?
    Key said I received an email Friday night, and will deal with it.
    Cunliffe asked Key;
    If a member of his office was found anyone who has stepped over the line will you sort it?
    How did Slater know he was receiving IOA early?
    No answers from Key.

    Break time; – and feel this debate was not a good experience so far.

  33. TheContrarian 33
    2 September 2014 at 8:07 pm

    Is it just my aging modem or is the stream really shit?

  34. Dialey 34
    2 September 2014 at 8:08 pm

    Key is certainly scoring points in a smart alec snide way. Cunliffe has more gravitas but is a little ponderous tonight

    • blue leopard 34.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:10 pm

      Agree, hope he gets told to lighten up – Cunliffe that is, if Key was any lighter he might end up floating off.

    • Ant 34.2
      2 September 2014 at 8:16 pm

      Key is just speaking in soundbites, he’s figured he can act like he does in parliament because everyone watching is partisan.

      It’s all for tomorrows paper.

      • emergency mike 34.2.1
        2 September 2014 at 8:22 pm

        Good point Ant, and all the NAct hacks will report that Key was confident and took control. I also thought he looked like the smarmy snarky soundbite jester he does in parliament.

  35. ScottGN 35
    2 September 2014 at 8:09 pm

    Cunliffe should have straight out asked Key if all his houses were in trusts and was designed to avoid tax.

    • alwyn 35.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:30 pm

      That would be a crazy question unless he could guarantee two things.
      1. That all Key’s properties were in a trust
      and
      2. That nothing the Cunliffes owned was in a trust.
      Any lawyer will tell you never to ask a question when you don’t know the answer.
      Remember when Cunliffe tried to make some brownie points by talking about Key living in a big house in a leafy suburb?
      Didn’t work out to well when he had to admit that he lived in a $2.5 million dollar house in Herne Bay did it?
      Now when you want him to ask about this can you guarantee what the answers would be?

      • yeshe 35.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 8:37 pm

        still trolling alwyn ? have fun do you ?

        • alwyn 35.1.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 9:38 pm

          Actually, yeshe, this question interested me so I looked a little further.

          Cunliffe cannot afford to ask this question can he?
          The return of pecuniary interests clearly states that his home is owned by a family trust.
          Key lists his properties but doesn’t say that they are owned by a trust. Whether they are or not I have no way of knowing.

          However if ScottGN regards this as being important he will have to accept that Cunliffe IS taking advantage of trusts, won’t he/she?
          Trolling? I didn’t bring the topic up did I. Surely if it is irrelevant then you will have to call ScottGN a troll.

          • alwyn 35.1.1.1.1
            2 September 2014 at 9:45 pm

            Out of curiosity can I ask why the comment above went into moderation?
            If it is something in the comment I may be able to avoid it in the future and save you the time of looking at it.
            It doesn’t seem to be everything by me as this one shows up.

            • weka 35.1.1.1.1.1
              2 September 2014 at 9:52 pm

              Some words will do it eg trole spelt right. Sometimes it’s random. AFAIK if you get moderated for content the moderator will put up a visible comment.

              Edit: something weird just happened with the threading though.

              • alwyn …
                2 September 2014 at 9:57 pm

                Thank you. I didn’t think of that.
                It wasn’t really needed of course. It was just an afterthought in response to the accusation by yeshe, and didn’t add anything to the gist of my comment.

          • lprent 35.1.1.1.2
            2 September 2014 at 10:11 pm

            His wife is a lawyer. You will find that most lawyers hold their homes in trusts. That is because partnerships are not limited liability and therefore don’t have the separation of liability that employees, stockholders, or owners of limited liability companies have.

            Perhaps you should use your brain and think about who else lives in the house – you misogynist fool

            • alwyn 35.1.1.1.2.1
              2 September 2014 at 11:46 pm

              Yes, and they are very sensible to do so.
              However it was ScottGN who seemed to think that this was a killing question for David Cunliffe to ask of John Key.
              I was simply pointing out that it would be a very silly question to ask IF he thought that using trusts was in some way something that Key should be attacked for.
              Your explanation of why the Cunliffe family would do it is entirely reasonable. Many of the reasons people use trusts are reasonable, but in some way the “left”, in general, seem to feel they are automatically disreputable.
              I think your description of me as being a misogynist is rather harsh. My wife says you are wrong. I hope that that isn’t simply misguided loyalty on her part.

    • Murray Olsen 35.2
      3 September 2014 at 2:51 am

      When Key asked him the question about CGT on houses owned by trusts, Cunliffe should have just replied that he wasn’t au fait with Hawaiian tax law.

  36. anker 36
    2 September 2014 at 8:09 pm

    Really pretty ghastly……..

    Key talking quickly, yap, yap yap. I am sure its a sign of anxiety.

    Surely people don’t like him playing the funny guy? Clown Key

  37. DS 37
    2 September 2014 at 8:09 pm

    You know, I remember seeing Bolger, Shipley, English, and Brash in TV debates. I disagreed with them, but I never wanted to throw something at them. John Key is a bloody disgrace.

  38. Dan1 38
    2 September 2014 at 8:10 pm

    Key’s mike was definitely up. That is bias. Overall, I don’t think too many opinions would have changed tonight. Not a win for Cunliffe, but Key I find awful!!!!

    • cogito 38.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:21 pm

      AWFUL is the word. Sickening as well. Key is not a PM – he is a schoolyard bully. He has no class. He is FILTH.

  39. gobsmacked 39
    2 September 2014 at 8:10 pm

    When people compare Key with Muldoon, I thought they meant arrogance and abuse of power. Didn’t realize it was a reference to their drinking habits.

    Key’s next line: “It doesshhnt give my opponentsh much time either …”

    This is not pretty to watch, the man is embarrassing himself before the nation.

  40. infused 40
    2 September 2014 at 8:11 pm

    I love how the attitude has changed here. You guys are hilarious.

    • ScottGN 40.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:13 pm

      Yeah we’ve been having a great laugh. You guys, not so much, in the last couple of weeks.

    • gobsmacked 40.2
      2 September 2014 at 8:14 pm

      No, John Key is hilarious .. !111111!!!

      It’s a shame primary school kids can’t vote. Fart poo pee!

    • Lanthanide 40.3
      2 September 2014 at 8:21 pm

      Have a look at #keyvcunliffe on twitter and you’ll find the vast majority are knocking Key for behaving like a child.

      • Hanswurst 40.3.1
        2 September 2014 at 10:03 pm

        Yes, so much so that I had to check whether I hadn’t clicked through to a feed for left-wing commentary. If #keyvcunliffe is indicative of how people generally thought, that’s a good sign.

  41. kiwigunner 41
    2 September 2014 at 8:11 pm

    Right at the start when the background video didn’t work was classic.

    Key turns and says ‘A picture of me!’ Cunliffe says “Actually, it’s a picture of us John” – revealing.

    Also just loved Key blaming poor state housing on those who live in them being lazy. Summed up his world view perfectly.

  42. Tangled_up 42
    2 September 2014 at 8:22 pm

    having trouble voting in the poll also:

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/election/

    • gobsmacked 42.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:26 pm

      The poll asks us “Who won the debate?”.

      Of the options available, I couldn’t see “I haven’t got a bloody time machine, you fools”.

  43. karol 43
    2 September 2014 at 8:25 pm

    The hands man – like a used car salesman – trying too hard.

  44. ianmac 44
    2 September 2014 at 8:26 pm

    Much better picture and sound not lagging. Picture spoiled by Mr Key being there.

  45. weka 45
    2 September 2014 at 8:32 pm

    Have they turned up Cunliffe’s mike?

  46. blue leopard 46
    2 September 2014 at 8:32 pm

    Ah good Cunliffe is warming up (thank gudness) šŸ™‚

  47. emergency mike 47
    2 September 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Key got totally hammered over Chch earthquake insurance issues.

  48. infused 48
    2 September 2014 at 8:33 pm

    Well considering he didn’t let Key talk at all on that question.

    • gobsmacked 48.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:38 pm

      He would let him talk, if he wanted to. But he only wants to shout.

      Act like a kid, you get treated like you deserve.

    • emergency mike 48.2
      2 September 2014 at 8:40 pm

      Considering anything you like, he got totally hammered and looked like a gimp.

  49. sabine 49
    2 September 2014 at 8:38 pm

    this is most tedious.

    ack
    ack
    ack

  50. anker 50
    2 September 2014 at 8:38 pm

    Cunliffe concise, Key nothing to offer, rabbiting on. He might as well be saying “suck it up”

    • blue leopard 50.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:41 pm

      It seems to me that National don’t have any policies – Key always talking about the past, what they have done, not what they will do. It is strange.

      • Blue 50.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 9:19 pm

        Exactly. Key refuses to say what National will do with a third term. Their entire campaign is focused on their past record and the assurance of ‘more of the same’. No new ideas at all. There are two options here:

        1. They are hiding their policy because they know Kiwis won’t like it.
        2. They really don’t have any ideas.

        I often wonder what National supporters think. Not the ones who come on here who only care about National ‘winning’ and don’t seem to much care about anything beyond that. But the real National supporters who actually believe in right-wing ideals.

        Are they happy for Key to be a sit-on-his-arse PM who does nothing? If National won this election it would likely be their final term, so it’s their last chance to get some right-wing policies in before they get kicked out. So what’s the deal?

        • Frankie and Benjy Mouse 50.1.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 10:21 pm

          May be both one and two. No new ideas, so trying some old ones again. I caught a mention of cutting ACC when asked what was the Nat tax policy. Deja vu.

  51. Kat 51
    2 September 2014 at 8:42 pm

    This is Stuff!!! what a sham of a debate, stacked audience, poor feed, terrible sound quality and the moderators are….well…..awful.

    Stuffed for me.

  52. infused 52
    2 September 2014 at 8:43 pm

    This second half is basically Cunliffe shouting over the top of everything.

    • SpaceMonkey 52.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:45 pm

      At least he can speak English.

    • ScottGN 52.2
      2 September 2014 at 8:45 pm

      The second half is basically Key getting nailed on National’s failure for Christchurch.

    • weka 52.3
      2 September 2014 at 8:48 pm

      It’s called balance infused.

      JK: “yeah, whatever, yeah whatever”

      DC: “Look John, you can play the school yard larrikin all you like…”

    • mickysavage 52.4
      2 September 2014 at 9:17 pm

      Interesting that in the second half the mike levels were equal. In the first half Key was way, way louder. This needs to be addressed because it had a significant effect on things.

  53. karol 53
    2 September 2014 at 8:45 pm

    Cunliffe: “You can play the schoolyard larrikin all you like, John”

    Key: “Rhetoric is sheep”.

  54. gobsmacked 54
    2 September 2014 at 8:46 pm

    Another brilliant Key one-liner … “Whatever!”

    It’s like listening to Oscar Wilde.

  55. Tracey 55
    2 September 2014 at 8:46 pm

    if i went to kiwiblog would i find key is commanding and owned cunliffe?

  56. Weepus beard 56
    2 September 2014 at 8:48 pm

    In the break Cosgrove brought up the Nats’ link to the poisonous blogger who refers to Christchurch residents as scum. Has DC managed to slip that in anywhere?

  57. ScottGN 57
    2 September 2014 at 8:48 pm

    Jerry Brownlee does not look like a happy man tonight.

  58. blue leopard 58
    2 September 2014 at 8:50 pm

    Labour is going to deliver more than ‘one-liners’
    Woo hoo, Right on target!

  59. Tangled_up 59
    2 September 2014 at 8:58 pm

    A lot closer this time. The format (not moderated) suited Key and he was able to use humour to work the crowd and he got a pretty good shot in with CGT and family trusts. Cunliffe held his ground and got some good shots in and it was fortunate for him that it was in chch because all he had to do was disagree with Key and point out he would do it better!

    1st half Key – 2nd half Cunliffe – overall about even.

    • Anne 59.1
      2 September 2014 at 8:59 pm

      Nope, Cunliffe won – again.

      His final words were superb. Go David!!!

      • infused 59.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 9:08 pm

        Cunliffe was all fluff. Key nailed him first half. Cunliffe bought it back second half because, well, Christchurch.

        • Lanthanide 59.1.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 9:16 pm

          “Cunliffe bought it back second half because, well, Christchurch.”

          Yes. National only managed to scrap together their 1 seat majority on right-wing policy at the last election because of the swing to the right in Christchurch.

          Food for thought, I should think.

      • ScottGN 59.1.2
        2 September 2014 at 9:10 pm

        I agree Anne. Cunliffe won tonight. After last week Key needed to win big tonight and that didn’t happen. He was shrill and frankly kind of bizarre. Of the two of them I reckon Cunliffe managed to look like the the PM that we want.

    • blue leopard 59.2
      2 September 2014 at 9:17 pm

      Tend to agree with you Tangled_up. Good summary.

  60. Liberal Realist 60
    2 September 2014 at 8:59 pm

    Yuk! What a terrible event. Moderation was none existent. Key behaving like a snide child. Cunliffe did okay but no big hits. Key acted like a complete dick,

    • mickysavage 60.1
      2 September 2014 at 9:15 pm

      Well summed up. Who would have thought that the left would be thinking that Hosking was not too bad …

      • Hanswurst 60.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 10:26 pm

        To be fair, Tracey Watkins has demonstrated for years now that she’s in even deeper thrall to the Prime Minister’s Orifice than Hosking.

  61. ExStatic 61
    2 September 2014 at 9:01 pm

    DC would do a lot better if he could just shut up from time to time. Is it me or does he just come across as pompous and self important. A great pity the Greens were not included in this debate.

    • infused 61.1
      2 September 2014 at 9:06 pm

      Yep. Was my point above. He started doing that the whole second part through.

    • karol 61.2
      2 September 2014 at 9:08 pm

      It’s probably you. I thought he was quite prime ministerial.

      • infused 61.2.1
        2 September 2014 at 9:10 pm

        Depends what side of the fence you are on Karol. he talked over everything second half.

        • weka 61.2.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 9:15 pm

          Did you miss the first half?

        • lprent 61.2.1.2
          2 September 2014 at 11:14 pm

          Good that low volume mike that they gave Cunliffe in the first 20 minutes was rather disgusting. And John Key was full of shit at the end of the first section when he started attacking this site and its former author.

          I’m kind of irritated about that.

          Really shows you why young bloggers and commenters should use pseudonyms when you have a Cameron Slater wannabe as PM trying to attack someones job because they used to blog.

          • Colonial Viper 61.2.1.2.1
            2 September 2014 at 11:39 pm

            Yep I got on the Twittersphere and started bitching about Cunliffe’s mike volume problem nice and early…eventually got sorted

          • weka 61.2.1.2.2
            3 September 2014 at 12:02 am

            “And John Key was full of shit at the end of the first section when he started attacking this site and its former author.”

            I missed that. What did he say?

      • ScottGN 61.2.2
        2 September 2014 at 9:11 pm

        Me too.

      • ExStatic 61.2.3
        2 September 2014 at 9:17 pm

        We need a strong voice for the left that we can unite behind and the voters like. Cunliffe ain’t it. Sounds loud and bombastic, Shane Jones without the baggage would have done it, failing that Russel should be the spokesman for the left.

    • ScottGN 61.3
      2 September 2014 at 9:14 pm

      It’s just you I reckon and your lack of realpolitik.

    • mickysavage 61.4
      2 September 2014 at 9:14 pm

      I don’t know which debate you were watching ExStatic but Key was the one who was interrupting incessantly. Cunliffe had way less air time yet still managed to make his points. With Key he kept talking about the importance of policy yet I did not hear any.

      This is a line the right are running in social media right now. Sure you are a green?

      • ExStatic 61.4.1
        2 September 2014 at 9:28 pm

        I am 90% sure I am. I was labour but cannot stand DC, he just seems to be so pompous. I like the Greens leadership because they are sincere and what you see is what you get. Russel is very under rated and I think it is arrogant of Labour to expect the Greens to be the minor party in the next government.

        • lprent 61.4.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 9:30 pm

          They will probably be as much a part of the next government as their voting power enables them to be. That will almost certainly be a lesser vote than Labour.

          Live with reality will you…

          (incidentally, this election I will be party voting green as well. My vote is up for a worthy party in 2017 – my decision will be in early 2016).

        • Lanthanide 61.4.1.2
          2 September 2014 at 9:30 pm

          “I think it is arrogant of Labour to expect the Greens to be the minor party in the next government.”

          Er, no, it’s not “arrogant”, it’s realistic, because Labour are, and always have, polled twice (or more) what the Greens have polled.

          @Lynn: Snap!

        • weka 61.4.1.3
          2 September 2014 at 9:31 pm

          Labour on 30%, GP on 13%.

          Snap, Lanth.

        • Rodel 61.4.1.4
          2 September 2014 at 11:22 pm

          ExSt
          The tired old mantra…’I was Labour but now etc etc’ is such a poor attempt at an obvious ploy. It really is boring and simple minded. Do you really think anyone believes it?

      • lprent 61.4.2
        2 September 2014 at 9:37 pm

        He does sound like the usual gormless diversion troll. If so he may find me when I’m in moderator mode and feeling sarcastic.

      • Colonial Viper 61.4.3
        2 September 2014 at 11:42 pm

        I donā€™t know which debate you were watching ExStatic but Key was the one who was interrupting incessantly.

        And the “moderators” were helping him by constantly breaking into Cunliffe and saying that they were moving on topics.

        They NEVER did that to John Key, who was allowed a clear run.

    • Rodel 61.5
      2 September 2014 at 11:13 pm

      ExStatic.. Yes, it is you.Sorry.

    • lprent 61.6
      2 September 2014 at 11:18 pm

      Is it me or does he just come across as pompous and self important.

      It is your poor judgement. He is trying to be PM. What do you think he should be like? A doormat?

      You really do sound like a dumbass troll, concern variant…

  62. Weepus beard 62
    2 September 2014 at 9:02 pm

    You know what? I didn’t get anything out of that and I don’t think I’d get anything out of any stand up debate because they just talk marketing speak the whole time.

    What would really be revealing to a voter is if they released their emails sent and received for the last month.

  63. Dont worry. Be happy 63
    2 September 2014 at 9:05 pm

    “Key acted like a complete dick” eh? He wasn’t acting.

  64. ianmac 64
    2 September 2014 at 9:06 pm

    About even. But doesn’t Key sort of whine and shrilly try the put down when on the defense. Not used to being disagreed with. Schoolyard bully is true. Small man complex?
    Sugar with Nigel at 9:30.

  65. Kat 65
    2 September 2014 at 9:10 pm

    What must worry the Nats is Cunliffe looks like the Prime Minister after a cup of tea, Key looks like a cornered rodent on a mix of fear and adrenalin. Whats with all the water John!!

  66. Leanne 66
    2 September 2014 at 9:12 pm

    Just watched the full debate and think the choice could not be clearer. The continuation of negative, flippant, throw away comments by Key (and he was the only one who still kept referring to smear tactics which is so laughable when it’s his office, ministers & supporters up to their necks in it not Labour’s) while Cunliffe gave considered, balanced and reasoned statements, even acknowledging the efforts of the government and people of Christchurch where appropriate. Good to know there are still some decent politicians to vote for ….

  67. Dialey 67
    2 September 2014 at 9:16 pm

    Is it just me being suspicious, or is the Newstalk ZB poll the same result as the TVNZ debate, 61% to Key, 38% to Cunliffe?

    • adam 67.1
      2 September 2014 at 9:19 pm

      The trick with lying for propaganda purposes , it to mix it up a little.

    • Anne 67.2
      2 September 2014 at 9:44 pm

      Same Nats who are linked to the Tory email/text hotline. Doing their duty. Most probably recorded their vote before the debate even started. šŸ™‚

  68. Jrobin 68
    2 September 2014 at 9:16 pm

    Key looking hyped and jerky. Certainly more even but wont change anyone’s vote, depending on temperament you would find Key dominant and funny or a jumped up little smart arse. So what’s new. I know who I wouldn’t trust though. The maniacal laughter a strange echo of Joyce in the famous set to with Robertson. These guys are rattled.

  69. North 69
    2 September 2014 at 9:18 pm

    Best comment above – “Who looked the leader ?”

    If, variously, waving the arms around like an East End market vendor, diction to match, smartarse interruptive wisecracks, cocktail party grimace harshly divided by ‘that nose’, resemblance to an animated chihuahua demanding attention, if that’s “leader” – well yeah…… Key.

    “Leader” according to the age old and settled meaning of the word ? We all know whom looked the leader.

    I am however seriously concerned that the audience was stacked……the imbalance pumped full of replicant Hekia Paratas and Louise Upstons present to stamp their feet for TheGodKey’s Question Time parliamentary sideshow.

    I hear Bill English yawning at the poor attempt at ‘barnstorming’ by his soon-not-to-be boss.

    That did not qualify as a leaders’ debate. Any connection to that characterisation did reside principally in Cunliffe however.

  70. anker 70
    2 September 2014 at 9:19 pm

    Water’s what you drink when you get a dry throat cause your anxious. Also you talk quicker…………….

    Hey what was Cunliffe’s killer last line? I missed it.

  71. Dont worry. Be happy 71
    2 September 2014 at 9:26 pm

    Did I smell a trap? Did Labour know about Hager’s book? Key looked very happy to get the answer he got. Surely not. ABC anyone?

    • Lanthanide 71.1
      2 September 2014 at 9:34 pm

      Good point. It seems like a tactic National would want, get Cunliffe to answer something and then go out guns-blazing the next day to say he lied.

      Bomber apparently had an advance copy of it. So it’s possible others could have well, or for National to spin it that way.

      • Richard Christie 71.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 9:43 pm

        Bomber apparently had an advance copy of it.

        Care to give your source for this claim? because, apparently, Bomber rejects that.

      • karol 71.1.2
        2 September 2014 at 9:46 pm

        Bomber didn’t have an advance copy of it. He asked…erm, whichever news outlet said he knew the subject in advance, for a retraction. He said he guessed the topic because someone…. Hager I think, had asked him some questions last year.

      • Puddleglum 71.1.3
        2 September 2014 at 10:09 pm

        Possibly, though the point of the question was to imply that the ‘Vote Positive’ slogan was deliberately chosen because they ‘knew’ that Dirty Politics was coming out.

        Given all the printing, branding, planning, decision-making, etc. behind the ‘Vote Positive’ message they would just about have had to know about the book coming out before Hager had started work on it, wouldn’t they?

        At a minimum Labour would have needed far more ‘pre-warning’ than simply getting an advanced copy a few days before the release.

    • lprent 71.2
      2 September 2014 at 9:34 pm

      Nope. I know a few details about how Nicky Hager did his book because I got asked for data. He wasn’t telling any of us in the blogging community what he was doing or what he had and we’re a tight mouthed bunch.

      He certainly wasn’t talking to any politicians – they leak like sieves.

  72. weka 72
    2 September 2014 at 9:55 pm

    So what is the answer to the question about CGT and trusts?

    • Puddleglum 72.1
      2 September 2014 at 10:12 pm

      If it’s the family home there’s no CGT.

      According to Stuff (in the second to last comment by reporter Janine Fenwick):

      “Cunliffe and Key just held a post-debate presser and addressed comments in the debate on the family home being subject to CGT if it is owned by a trust.

      Cunliffe couldn’t answer that in the debate but told reporters afterwards that he was caught out. He said Key was wrong and regardless of who owns it, if it’s your home it won’t be subject to CGT.“

      • weka 72.1.1
        2 September 2014 at 10:53 pm

        How will they know it’s your home?

        • TA 72.1.1.1
          2 September 2014 at 11:36 pm

          There might need to be a new register with trustees, settlors and beneficiaries listed and if you don’t register then you get charged CGT.

          I checked the Companies’ Office but can only see a charitable trust register.

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