Today in schadenfreude

Written By: - Date published: 2:57 pm, April 23rd, 2018 - 39 comments
Categories: gay rights, religion - Tags: ,

Many of you may have noticed there has been another recent upsurge in counter-culture and attacking queer people, including recent salvos from a certain fellow known to claim natural disasters are punishments for queerness.

Some of us Requested A Sign From God as to whose side He was on. It appears today the verdict is in, and God Loves Gays.

Repent and change your ways, bigots, lest you too shall be burned most ironically.

Naturally, social media is alight with jokes:

https://twitter.com/corigm/status/988190430792581121

(In all seriousness, I hope Brian Tamaki recovers well. Despite preaching from odium, I don’t actually want him hurt, no matter how ironic it is. Even if this is totally God punishing him for failing to love his neighbours as himself.

On a completely unrelated note, don’t throw an accelerant onto a fire, you might hurt yourself)

39 comments on “Today in schadenfreude ”

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  1. Matthew Whitehead 1
    23 April 2018 at 3:01 pm

    Note: I obviously don’t believe God is punishing Brian Tamaki. It’s just a joke.

    Besides, we all know people that don’t exist can’t punish anyone. *shrug*

  2. McFlock 2
    23 April 2018 at 3:14 pm

    If half of what Tamaki says is true, he’d best get used to the sensation.

  3. Puckish Rogue 3
    23 April 2018 at 3:16 pm

    So for no good reason:

  4. Michelle 4
    23 April 2018 at 3:28 pm

    what goes around comes around Mr Tamaki

  5. mac1 5
    23 April 2018 at 3:51 pm

    “Schadenfreude”

    Interesting that we have to borrow into English a word for “pleasure derived by someone from another person’s misfortune.”

    Did this concept not exist in earlier English-speaking times?

    We have “just desserts” and “getting your comeuppance” but “schadenfreude” seems to be darker and different to those.

    I’ve been thinking about the ‘Golden Rule’ lately.

    Would we act as we do if we knew, categorically and unfailingly, that we would get back what we dish out?

    Instead of an ethical consideration, it would be a question of individual and personal consequences.

    • Matthew Whitehead 5.1
      23 April 2018 at 4:11 pm

      Just desserts is about deservedness, Schadenfreude is about the glee you feel at someone else’s pain. The latter is arguably appropriate here, I would argue that the former isn’t- just desserts for Tamaki is being villified and excluded from society like he has preached queer people should be.

      • mac1 5.1.1
        23 April 2018 at 4:44 pm

        I note when checking that my spelling is wrong- it should be ‘just deserts’. A ‘desert’ is something deserved or merited, for good or bad, whatever is deserved.

        Whilst I too don’t wish pain and suffering upon Bishop Brian, I do hope that his brush with a burn might ameliorate his views upon the eternal fires of hell.

        Can’t expect him to not believe in Hell though, eh? Somehow I prefer Pope Francis’ take on the wicked- that they just cease to exist. “There is no hell, there is the disappearance of sinful souls.” Much more appropriate- extinction, eternal non-recognition, the worst result for a narcissist………

        • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.1.1
          23 April 2018 at 4:59 pm

          Ah, the perils of following pronounciation*. 😉 Yeah, looks like an arcane term that’s only survived in the form of that phrase.

          *that’s deliberate.

        • McFlock 5.1.1.2
          23 April 2018 at 5:03 pm

          Well, that’s another new thing I learned today: the only “just dessert” is when you get a free sundae for doing something nice, and even then it’s a desert 🙂

          • Tricledrown 5.1.1.2.1
            25 April 2018 at 9:53 am

            Brian Tamaki is the religious equivalent of those rip off retail loan shark trucks.

    • McFlock 5.2
      23 April 2018 at 4:15 pm

      In English we have the antonym “confelicity” – pleasure from another’s happiness.

      Like most reasonably good ideas, the Golden Rule breaks down on closer examination. The sadist who meets the masochist, for example 🙂

      • In Vino 5.2.1
        23 April 2018 at 4:19 pm

        Strange how very few people know or use that word ‘confelicity’… Sad that even spellcheck does not recognise it! On this occasion, I feel confelicity with those feeling schadenfreude.

      • mac1 5.2.2
        23 April 2018 at 4:30 pm

        I am a complete newbie to the “schady” world of the darker passions, McFlock.

        Though Rabbi Hillel’s version seems to cover the sadism/masochism ‘interface’.

        “That which is hateful to you, do not do to another” would tend to ameliorate the behaviour to within safe limits, at least.

        But ‘confelicity”- I like that, however it’s Latin based, and had to have come into the language at a later stage.

        • McFlock 5.2.2.1
          23 April 2018 at 4:56 pm

          Hmm. Confelicity not even in OED, but I’ve seen it around a wee bit. Must be a pretty recent construct. Good word, though.

          The sadist doesn’t want to experience physical pain, yet that would be desirable for the masochist. So either the masochist inflicts pain on the sadist in order to receive it back, or the sadist refrains from spanking the masochist in order to avoid reciprocation.

          And then of course Plato came up with scenarios like returning property to people (good) where the property is a sword and the person in question is violently insane (whoops, bad).

          The entire Golden Rule criticism field is a fun playroom for first or second year philosophy students. In my experience, a more effective version is just “chillax, and try not to be a dick in whatever situation you are in – unless that’s the least-wrong thing you can do”. 🙂

    • Draco T Bastard 5.3
      23 April 2018 at 5:09 pm

      Who’s borrowing what now?

      English is a West Germanic language that was first spoken in early medieval England and is now a global lingua franca.[4][5] Named after the Angles, one of the Germanic tribes that migrated to England, it ultimately derives its name from the Anglia (Angeln) peninsula in the Baltic Sea. It is closely related to the Frisian languages, but its vocabulary has been significantly influenced by other Germanic languages, particularly Norse (a North Germanic language), as well as by Latin and Romance languages, especially French.

      😛

      • mac1 5.3.1
        23 April 2018 at 5:29 pm

        Yes, true, Draco T. I remember now my stage one English lecture where Miss Osmers said that there were only six words that come through from the original British language- one being the word ‘barrow’.

        I also remember a Professor of German at the graduation from Teacher’s College in 1970 who weighed into those proposing the acceptance of Maori as an official language. I was even then thinking that English, too, was a language of borrowed vocabulary, the fault he was criticising in Maori.

        • Matthew Whitehead 5.3.1.1
          24 April 2018 at 5:45 pm

          The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don’t just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary.

          From James Nicoll, (or stolen by Terry Pratchett, if you prefer 😉 ) with apologies to sexworkers who are obviously far more pure than the English Language, lol.

          • mac1 5.3.1.1.1
            25 April 2018 at 12:23 am

            And its strength, for in borrowing so many words, there is an extremely large vocabulary, for writers especially. Half a million words I recall, with Shakespeare using a vocab of 80,000 words, and the average English graduate having some 20,000 words.

            Look at what is available for “crib house”- bordello, brothel, knocking shop, House of the Rising Sun, whore house, house of ill repute; for sex worker we have prostitute, whore, lady of the night, street worker, madam, mistress, girls, good-time gal,

            For stolen we have purloined, nicked, half-inched, pinched, lifted, fell off the back of a truck, whipped, etc etc etc. For all these synonyms I bet there are many more.

            A rich and colourful language, tongue, lingo, dialect, indeed.

      • In Vino 5.3.2
        23 April 2018 at 6:18 pm

        Indeed. The Norman invasion in 1066 was very important – the Normans imported French. For over 200 years the Norman aristocracy (they took over all the castles) spoke French, and the poor English peasants out in the pig-stys spoke old Anglo-Saxon. When the two languages merged, that is when words of Latin derivation came into English – through French. (eg – sweat – Germanic word. Perspiration – from Latin.) That is the last time England got invaded, unless you count American influence..

        • Carolyn_Nth 5.3.2.1
          23 April 2018 at 6:34 pm

          Normans were descendants of Vikings who went to France. Vikings/Norsemen (north people), were descended from northern Germanic people. Hence the Germanic influence. Saxons were Germanic people who came from further to the south and west of the Nordic/Norse people.

          • dukeofurl 5.3.2.1.1
            24 April 2018 at 4:45 pm

            Saxons were northern coastal Germanic too, thats why the German state is called Lower Saxony . The other ( upper ) Saxony is misnamed but is called that for historical reasons.

        • mac1 5.3.2.2
          25 April 2018 at 12:31 am

          deer/venison, cow/beef, pig/pork, hen/pullet, sheep/mutton, goat/chevre. The Anglo-Saxon peasants raised them and the Norman overlords ate them.

  6. dukeofurl 6
    23 April 2018 at 4:01 pm

    Well Bishop Tamaki, it could get worse

    Fire is just ONE of the pains of hell… well most of them

    1. BEHOLD! the final doom of sinners who abuse the divine mercy is, to burn in the fire of hell.
    2.Sinners shall be condemned to suffer the everlasting chastisement reserved for them in hell. [Radio NZ is only station in hell]
    3.They have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and have digged to themselves cisterns broken cisterns that can hold no water. [I think we call them septic tanks now]
    4. ”The vengeance on the flesh of the ungodly is fire and worms.”

    and lots more fire
    8. This fire shall torment the damned not only externally, but also internally. It will burn the bowels, the heart, the brains, the blood within the veins, and the marrow within the bones.

    and smoke
    11. The fire itself will bring with it the pain of darkness; for, by its smoke it will, according to St. John, produce a storm of darkness which shall blind the damned.

    all that burning will make you thirsty
    12. To suffer a parching thirst, without having a drop of water to quench it, is intolerably painful.

    13. The reprobate shall be likewise tormented by the stench which pervades hell. The stench shall arise from the very bodies of the damned. “Out of their carcasses shall arise a stink.

    and noisy
    14. They are tormented not only by the stench of their companions, but also by their shrieks and lamentations.

    and crowded
    15 In whatever position the damned shall fall into hell after the general judgment, whether on the side, or on the back, or with the head downwards, in that they must remain for eternity, without being ever able to move foot or hand or finger

    • ianmac 6.1
      23 April 2018 at 5:17 pm

      Wasn’t it Zeus who was outraged by Prometheus’ theft of fire and so punished the Titan by having him taken far to the east, perhaps the Caucasus. Here Prometheus was chained to a rock (or pillar) and Zeus sent an eagle to eat the Titan’s liver. and have it grow again the eaten again and again and again…

      Must have been Hell.

  7. Ad 7
    23 April 2018 at 5:02 pm

    I fell in to a burning ring of fire…

    Burns burns burns
    The ring of fire.

    – Johnnie Cash

    Last used on a haemmorroid cream ad.

  8. AsleepWhileWalking 8
    23 April 2018 at 5:14 pm

    I don’t want anyone burned (though I hope it shuts him up for a short time, duct tape would do the trick). I don’t want people vilified for consentual sex preference either.

    Why must we be subjected to his fringe views in the first place? Religion shouldn’t be inflicted upon the public.

    • bwaghorn 8.1
      23 April 2018 at 5:18 pm

      ”Religion shouldn’t be inflicted upon the public.”
      do you feel the same about maori culture?

      • mac1 8.1.1
        23 April 2018 at 5:34 pm

        Do you feel the same about English/Judaeo-Christian culture? Or American culture?

        How do we develop, and own, our culture?

        • bwaghorn 8.1.1.1
          23 April 2018 at 6:49 pm

          have us honkies got a culture ? i havn’t noticed one .
          i’m not into any of it , it’s just a question around were we draw a line

          • mac1 8.1.1.1.1
            23 April 2018 at 7:13 pm

            Yes, we have a culture. It’s all around us. Go overseas and discover your own culture, by finding out about another’s culture. It’s a fun journey.

            It’s like being a fish. You are surrounded by water, but you know nothing else so you’re not aware of it.

            I never knew we really had a NZ accent until being out of NZ for a month and then hearing a Hamiltonian speaking in a Greek city.

            And being Kiwis, among the first questions was “So, do you know so and so in Hamilton?”

            How did we develop this culture? By absorbing, modifying, learning from others’ cultures as well as the one we were born into or emigrated with.

            How do we own it? Respect what we are and how we got here to where we are.

            Because that culture is there.

          • Matthew Whitehead 8.1.1.1.2
            24 April 2018 at 6:00 pm

            Eating meat pies is culture. Sunday roast is culture. Attending church is culture. How we educate is culture. How our workplaces function is culture, including 9-5 five days a week. What we buy as takeaways is culture. Poetry is culture. Watching the Avengers is culture. Dropping Māori words into conversation in English is culture. Friday drinks are culture. Farewell gifts are culture. Etc…

            Mac is right, but he’s being too figurative. You are literally immersed in it.

            I think we should be respectful of Māori culture and keep in mind that scientists coming from a European cultural tradition have found a lot of “new” scientific discoveries in medicine, chemistry, and physics by investigating the traditional knowledge of other cultures. (in fact, both Arabic and East Asian cultures were far more advanced in a number of ways when Europe first re-established contact with them) And even where it’s superstition, we should still be at least as respectful to it as we are to Christian superstitions, or to say, the horoscope, which we regularly put into our print publications despite knowing it has no factual basis.

            I would certainly rather people didn’t try to ward off monsters, but hey, I don’t correct someone every time they bless me or someone else in public. 😉 I just tend to say gesundheit instead myself as an alternative, and leave it at that.

    • Matthew Whitehead 8.2
      24 April 2018 at 5:49 pm

      In any sane culture this man would be a fringe figure.

      I don’t mind religion being brought into the public arena, what it doesn’t belong in is politics, or human rights decisions. We should make our policy decisions on secular grounds, even if for some of our politicians their religious values inform their secular opinions.

  9. North 9
    23 April 2018 at 6:11 pm

    Public expression of Maori culture (tikanga) is not the same as public expression of a blind religiosity which commends dispatch to the Fires of Hell for a specific and significant section of our community. False equivalence cannot conceal the foulness of the latter.

  10. UncookedSelachimorpha 10
    23 April 2018 at 7:28 pm

    If heaven has Brian Tamaki in it….then Hell sounds not so bad.

    ‘Go to heaven for the climate, and to hell for the company’
    (Mark Twain)

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