Turnbull out, Morrison In?

Written By: - Date published: 2:29 pm, August 23rd, 2018 - 100 comments
Categories: australian politics, class war, International, leadership - Tags:

It’s all turned to custard for Australian Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull. Despite winning a leadership ballot earlier in the week, the vultures of the hard right kept circling and this morning several Cabinet Ministers announced that they had changed their minds and now believed Turnbull has to go.

It now looks as if Turnbull has accepted that he no longer has the numbers and ally, Treasurer Scott Morrison, is being primed to replace him. Morrison will likely face off against Australia’s nastiest politician, Peter Dutton, who will be looking to pick up the 8 further caucus votes he needs to take the reigns.

Whoever wins, Australia will probably end the day with a PM who has not been given a mandate to lead by Aussie voters. Weirdly, this is the eleventh time this has happened in 60 years and the third time in a decade.

In the last hour Parliament has been closed early, just before Question Time was due to be held.  Labor leader Bill Shorten was quick to point out what this means:

“Australia no longer has a functioning government. This is the ultimate admission of surrender, of a bankrupt government, of a failed government”.

 

UPDATE: Malcolm Turnbull calls press conference at 1PM AEST (3PM in NZ).

UPDATE: Turnbull expects a ballot tomorrow, will not stand.

UPDATE: Julie Bishop is doing the numbers, expected to run.

UPDATE (Friday arvo) Scott Morrison is PM.

 

 

100 comments on “Turnbull out, Morrison In? ”

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  1. Ad 1
    23 August 2018 at 2:40 pm

    Why Morrison not Bishop?
    She’s staunch and electable.

    • ScottGN 1.1
      23 August 2018 at 2:45 pm

      Maybe she noted what they did to Gillard?
      At any rate she’s been staunch in saying that she won’t stand for the leaders job.

    • Exkiwiforces 1.2
      23 August 2018 at 3:41 pm

      Old Julie doesn’t want the job, she is more of moderate Liberal than her female peers on the right.

      • Ad 1.2.1
        23 August 2018 at 3:57 pm

        It’s the smart play for Bishop.

        Wait out the next election when they get done like a dinner by Labor, then go for leadership then.

        • Exkiwiforces 1.2.1.1
          23 August 2018 at 4:04 pm

          I really don’t think she well make move the Libs top job now or after the next election as they have a few wee issues with the WA Libs atm.

    • One Two 1.3
      23 August 2018 at 3:58 pm

      Perpetual #2’s like to retain the ability to knife whats head of them in the back…

      Bishop is a coward…not staunch or electable…

      If being a coward and lacking integrity are requirements for PM in the modern era….Bishops credentials are as solid as any other…

      Politics has failed in the anglo nations…those who vote for its continuation are are the problem…

  2. Morrissey 2
    23 August 2018 at 2:50 pm

    Julie Bishop is one of the most disgraceful and reprehensible politicians in Australia. And that’s about as low and disgusting as anyone could be.

    In Canberra last week I met some Australian members of parliament. It gave me hope, because until I heard them speak I had always thought that Israel’s right wing politicians were the worst. —-(LAUGHTER)— I’ve never heard any Israeli politician speak about the Palestinian people the way that those Australian politicians did. But they are Australia’s problem, not mine. (LAUGHTER) I spoke with the Australian foreign minister; she talked and she was very nice but we could not agree on anything. (LAUGHTER)”

    —-Gideon Levy, speaking in Auckland, Dec. 3, 2017

    https://morrisseybreen.blogspot.com/2017/12/unbelievable-brutality-day-after-day.html

  3. thechangeling 3
    23 August 2018 at 3:14 pm

    What are the ramifications for us?

    • te reo putake 3.1
      23 August 2018 at 3:26 pm

      Morrison is pretty pro-kiwi. He even worked here as director of Tourism NZ under the Clark government. He’s very matey with Murray McCully, though that doesn’t count for much these days.

      • WILD KATIPO 3.1.1
        23 August 2018 at 3:59 pm

        Pretty pro Kiwi, eh?

        Hmmm….

        • greywarshark 3.1.1.1
          23 August 2018 at 5:42 pm

          He’ll probably have to come down rwice as hard on us then, to show he is a lreal Ozzie.

          I have said they despise us as they have been able to pull a lot of wool over our eyes. But then I was forgetting that Key led the way to antipathy when he said he was going to drop our wages and encourage Oz business to come over here because of the lower costs. Australians didn’t appreciate that idea of competition; after all they have been staunch and kept their unions and wouldn’t want to limit their prosperity. So businesses would cop flak if they gave up on Oz workers to come here. And they all turn and give us the thumbs down.

      • Morrissey 3.1.2
        23 August 2018 at 6:01 pm

        Morrison is pretty pro-kiwi.

        He is? Could you direct us to an instance of him speaking out against the rogue Australian regime’s brutal crackdown on “Kiwis”, i.e. Maori domiciled in Australia?

    • Exkiwiforces 3.2
      23 August 2018 at 3:46 pm

      I think NZ will do rather well if SCO MO does become PM, but I’m really unsure of Buttons/ Cone Head atm, but my gut feeling is it maybe a frosty relationship as the right wing Liberals don’t really understand MMP and the effects of the Neo-Con/ Lib economic theory has had on little old NZ.

  4. Dennis Frank 4
    23 August 2018 at 3:35 pm

    “Malcolm Turnbull says his intention is to call a Liberal party room meeting at midday tomorrow, if he sees the letter with a majority of MPs supporting Peter Dutton. The PM says it’s important to get the solicitor-general’s advice on his rival’s eligibility to sit in Parliament.” (ABC News)

    • Dennis Frank 4.1
      23 August 2018 at 5:03 pm

      “Sydney University constitutional law professor Anne Twomey had earlier told Fairfax the case was “borderline”. “I do think there is a danger for him,” Professor Twomey said. “I think there is a reasonable case for his disqualification but he also has a reasonable defence.”” [from Stuff]

      So, in a battle between Dutton & Morrison, centrists have a choice between a rightist and a moderate? And the rightist has a 50-50 chance of being ineligible? Why would any centrist go for Dutton on that basis? Unless Morrison has alienated some centrists in the past, he should beat Dutton easily.

      “With Mr Dutton appearing set to become Prime Minister, Labor unsuccessfully tried to refer him to the High Court over his eligibility to sit in Parliament. The vote to send Mr Dutton to the High Court failed by the narrowest possible margin, 68 for and 69 against. Mr Turnbull voted with the rest of the Coalition against sending Mr Dutton to the High Court.”

      So when Turnbull resigns as PM, Labour ought to try that ploy again on the basis that Turnbull could switch his vote to secure that High Court verdict. [2nd quote from ABC]

      • dukeofurl 4.1.1
        23 August 2018 at 5:12 pm

        Turnbull has referred Duttons eligibility to the Commonwealth Solicitor general, for ‘an opinion’

        I think thats seen as a way to run out the clock, but Duttons case in not exactly clear cut, as they said that Joyce was safe too ( and dint need to stand down) until Court said he was out.

      • Exkiwiforces 4.1.2
        23 August 2018 at 5:43 pm

        I was listening to the ABC News Radio this afternoon around lunchtime and they did a piece on Buttons Child care centre with the reporter from the ABC who was working in co-junction with CH10.

        That the information they have gather of the last couple of weeks and Buttons reply which is dated back to around Apr of this yr saying he is in the clear, is fact wrong as child care subsidies came in force in Jul and are directly paided into the child care centres therefore Buttons is receiving income from the Commonwealth and in breach of Section 44 of the Constitution which was further backed up legal advice from a independent SC which then backed up from CH10’s SC as they were to run the story early this week before all this shenanigans started.

        So it’s looks like old Buttons might be on the long walk home back to Bis Vegas.

        • dukeofurl 4.1.2.1
          23 August 2018 at 7:03 pm

          yes. Some 20 yrs ago a secondary school teacher who won a by election as an independent was rules as invalidly election as he as a school teacher at the time of nominations closed was considered to have a financial relationship with the Commonwealth. The weird bit was he was actually employed by the State of Victoria. Up till then ,it was thought only commonwealth employees had to resign before contesting.
          The Court seems to take a long bow on the financial connection, looking beyond who is actually getting the payment.
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_44_of_the_Constitution_of_Australia#Sykes_v_Cleary_(1992)

          • Exkiwiforces 4.1.2.1.1
            23 August 2018 at 8:30 pm

            The courts here are very strict IRT to the constitution, as there is some stories coming out from WA IRT to the current leader of the WA Liberal leader a chap named Nahan who was born in the US and has a unpaid US tax bill I believe, hence why I didn’t think Julie will run the top job atm.

            • dukeofurl 4.1.2.1.1.1
              23 August 2018 at 8:43 pm

              State parliament’s are not affected by the federal constitution rules for federal parliament only

              • Exkiwiforces …
                23 August 2018 at 9:05 pm

                Might be why that story has gone quite then and thank you for that wee bit of the constitution which I didn’t know about.

    • dukeofurl 4.2
      23 August 2018 at 5:05 pm

      Interesting that he wants ‘the signed letter’ in his hand.
      In one of the Rudd -Gillard scraps there was supposed to be a similar ‘letter’ but it never turned up.

      I thought this part was interesting:
      ‘”[If a spill motion] is carried and there is a new leader of the Liberal Party, that person will have to obviously satisfy the Governor-General that they can command a majority on the floor of the House of Representatives,”

      So its counted as a new government not just a quick change of the name of the PM.

      I think Turnbull is threatening that in a coalition that has a 1 seat majority they might
      be a teensy – weensy bit short. That the GG might not accept say Dutton as PM and maybe , in delicious irony, offer the job to Shorten as caretaker while a new election is called toute suite.
      Maybe the Shorten part is unlikely, but a snap election is looking more likely

      • RedLogix 4.2.1
        23 August 2018 at 5:26 pm

        Agreed. Turnbull is playing this as well as he can with the crap cards he’s been dealt. Almost feel a bit sorry for him.

        I think it’s clear that Turnbull is not going to sit on the backbench and he will likely resign Parliament as a matter of personal principle. He’s got no stomach to even loosely associate himself with the path Abbott has taken.

        But yes, demanding to see the letter is a smart move, while at the same time putting some pressure on via the Section 44c question. He may survive yet, or at least last long enough to see a more orderly transition to Morrison take place.

        In the end I suspect a lot of Australians will be sorry to see Turnbull pushed out like this, and the Liberal Party is in for a huge spanking come an election. Which given the Liberals seem fatally split and dysfunctional, looks increasingly necessary. If for no other reason that to avoid proroguing Parliament until sometime next year.

        Next crux looks like a caucus meeting tomorrow midday.

      • Exkiwiforces 4.2.2
        23 August 2018 at 5:52 pm

        This is classic old Mal the inner lawyer coming out of him, which made him famous during the Spy Catcher Court case where he took on Brits and won.

        Yes it will be sad to see him go, but he is going out swinging as a good Aussie battler does when the chips are down. Some say Mal is toosmart for the Liberal Party when you look at some of the knuckle daggers in the Libs and he even a lot smarter than Shiffy Shorten if it wasn’t for the white anting by right wing of the Libs.

  6. dukeofurl 6
    23 August 2018 at 4:11 pm

    Doesnt look like they are confident with a new leader that they can win a vote of confidence, so going to proroge parliament to avoid that happening.

    Do they even realise the hiding they are going to get at an election now, which ‘must’ be held by mid may next year. Doesnt sound like they can last till Xmas

  7. McFlock 7
    23 August 2018 at 4:51 pm

    Please can we honour Dutton with a special and unrenouncable citizenship of NZ for one year?

    • dukeofurl 7.1
      23 August 2018 at 4:58 pm

      That wont work.
      However his family company may be at risk for in receipt of money from the Commonwealth for childcare.
      A year or so back one Senator was removed because he owned an office building but then sold it to a business associate ,but loaned the money for that deal and that same building was leasing electorate office space for the Senator. It wasnt a direct ownership but you can see they did a deal to try and get around the rules but the court found the loan still meant a financial relationship existed.

      • McFlock 7.1.1
        23 August 2018 at 5:18 pm

        lol why not?

        Worked on Joyce.

        • dukeofurl 7.1.1.1
          23 August 2018 at 6:46 pm

          he had citizenship by descent from natural means. That sort of instant citizenship gambit was raised back then and was rubbished then.

          • McFlock 7.1.1.1.1
            23 August 2018 at 7:31 pm

            Mostly on the grounds that it would be quite obvious interference in the Aussie electoral system – not that it wouldn’t work.

            And if Dutton takes command, I’m not sure our ANZAC relationship would be any worse.

            • dukeofurl 7.1.1.1.1.1
              23 August 2018 at 8:40 pm

              No the high court rulings have excluded such artificial methods of being a citizen of a a foreign power. It has to be a ‘normal’ mthod of gaining citizenship. What you have described is abnormal

    • mickysavage 7.2
      23 August 2018 at 9:31 pm

      Please can we honour Dutton with a special and unrenouncable citizenship of NZ for one year?

      How about refugee status 😀

  8. SPC 8
    23 August 2018 at 5:19 pm

    There appears to be a curse on those in the office of PM of Australia, and as they bear responsibility for the treatment of New Zealanders in Oz there is a form of natural justice in play.

    It speaks to how Australians treat other people and following on from this, how they treat each other.

    The lack of civility and decency becomes a downward spiral. Or is that upward spiral, leading to the very top of their government.

    • RedLogix 8.1
      23 August 2018 at 5:30 pm

      Yeah the karma is kinda appealing.

      But the cause is plain enough, extremists on both sides playing hyper-partisanship games over both illegal immigration and climate change. That’s the real lesson we should all take-away from this.

    • Ad 10.1
      23 August 2018 at 6:34 pm

      I’d replace Mal Turnbull with Mal Meninga

      • AB 10.1.1
        23 August 2018 at 10:22 pm

        Yep- but OTOH, unlike Goldman Sachs, the Canberra Raiders are not a criminal organisation. (Well probably not, maybe, er…)
        Certainly however, Peter (creep me out) Dutton wouldn’t mess with Mal M.

  11. Anne 11
    23 August 2018 at 6:41 pm

    Hold on to your hat:

    Aussie may be about to have their second female Prime Minister?

    Bet she won’t have to cope with the crap the first female PM was forced to endure.

    I wonder if Jacinda and Julie will get along? They ain’t peas in a pod that’s for sure. 🙂

  12. Muttonbird 12
    23 August 2018 at 6:45 pm

    What the fudge is wrong with Australians? Whinging racist backstabbers to a man. Hard to believe they are our mates. I don’t want anything to do with them myself.

    • Draco T Bastard 12.1
      23 August 2018 at 6:51 pm

      I don’t want anything to do with them myself.

      They continually prove that they don’t want anything to do with us so why do we as a nation hold on to the idea that they’re our mates.

      • RedLogix 12.1.1
        23 August 2018 at 6:56 pm

        So much for caring and inclusive then.

        The crazy making circus we are witnessing (and trust me most Australians find it equally batshit nuts) is the consequence of knuckledragging extremists at both ends of the political spectrum blocking any sane compromises on both immigration and climate change for over a decade.

        Ultimately a lot of blame has to be levelled at the Australian Greens who obdurately blocked Kevin Rudds first carbon pricing/taxation scheme over a decade ago. It’s been pretty much downhill ever since.

        • Anne 12.1.1.1
          23 August 2018 at 7:10 pm

          It has always been my belief that the extremists at both ends of the political spectrum play an important role in a democratic society. They have the tendency to eventually isolate themselves far from the main body of opinion and we inevitably end up with what most people want… a moderate and relatively sane government be they a tad to the left or the right. It plays out at national and international levels.

          Look at Trump. There’s a way to go yet, but he is becoming increasingly isolated from the main body of voter opinion.

          • RedLogix 12.1.1.1.1
            23 August 2018 at 7:25 pm

            Yeah I get that. Extreme views are not always wrong, but it can take time to sort out the good ideas from the mass of bad ones.

            There is also a more pragmatic reason in favour of a moderate position. If say Labour want to find another 10 -15% more votes; are there more potential voters to the radically to left of them, or moderately just to the right?

            I know that doesn’t give a satisfying answer to most of the politically engaged activists here. Don’t shoot me because normal distribution.

            • KJT 12.1.1.1.1.1
              28 August 2018 at 9:13 am

              80% are known to prefer more socialist solutions than Labours.

              Which is why both Labour and National pretend to be more socialist and caring, in election year.

              The problem is Labour echos the right wing framing. Instead of showing it for the rubbish it is.

        • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.2
          23 August 2018 at 7:35 pm

          The crazy making circus we are witnessing (and trust me most Australians find it equally batshit nuts) is the consequence of knuckledragging extremists at both ends of the political spectrum blocking any sane compromises on both immigration and climate change for over a decade.

          Is it the extremists or the hierarchy?

          Ultimately a lot of blame has to be levelled at the Australian Greens who obdurately blocked Kevin Rudds first carbon pricing/taxation scheme over a decade ago.

          Citation needed for cause and effect.

          And, finally, WTF has this got to do with Australian policies that fuck over NZers and NZ?

          • RedLogix 12.1.1.2.1
            23 August 2018 at 7:50 pm

            If MP’s from all sides of the House and Senate were free to vote as they wished, passing sane and moderate legislation on contentious issues would be easily passed by a majority of members.

            The problem is that hyper-partisan politics has derailed the old conventions, the idea of agreeing to disagree, setting aside differences and working towards the common national interest has been killed off.

            And now we are seeing a relatively small minority on extremist members, aided and abetted by an activist media, holding centrist policies and Prime Ministers to ransom. Repeatedly.

            As for policies that fuck over kiwis. Well yes, the political dysfunction has enabled execrable pollies like Button brain to do their worst, but ultimately NZ only has itself to blame for taking the relationship with Australia for granted. If we really wanted to retain freedom of movement and equal rights on both sides of the Tasman we should have been a lot more proactive in getting the terms written down long before Howard took a knife to them … and we should have not have pretended we could run an independent immigration policy while retaining an open border with Australia. The two ideas were never compatible.

            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.2.1.1
              23 August 2018 at 8:07 pm

              If MP’s from all sides of the House and Senate were free to vote as they wished, passing sane and moderate legislation on contentious issues would be easily passed by a majority of members.

              Bollocks.

              The US actually has that system you know. Their party’s are not whipped to vote the same way.

              The problem is that hyper-partisan politics has derailed the old conventions, the idea of agreeing to disagree, setting aside differences and working towards the common national interest has been killed off.

              Although true that’s not, strictly speaking, the problem.

              The problem is that the policies that the parties and their members put forward and support are based upon ideology and often ignore facts.

              And now we are seeing a relatively small minority on extremist members, aided and abetted by an activist media, holding centrist policies and Prime Ministers to ransom.

              This assumes that centrist policies are viable and simply should go through.

              Yeah, no.

              If we really wanted to retain freedom of movement and equal rights on both sides of the Tasman we should have been a lot more proactive in getting the terms written down long before Howard took a knife to them … and we should have not have pretended we could run an independent immigration policy while retaining an open border with Australia. The two ideas were never compatible.

              Now that I can agree with.

              Of course, I don’t believe in open borders anyway.

          • Ad 12.1.1.2.2
            23 August 2018 at 7:56 pm

            Plenty of literature on how the Greens fucked over Labor on the carbon tax in 2009. Naturally, the Greens argued that it didn’t go far enough. To kill the bill they sided with Tony Abbott and the Opposition.

            In that 2009 Senate vote, two Liberals crossed the floor and voted with Labor. Meaning the scheme could have narrowly passed if the Greens were on board.

            So if the Greens want to look like they can responsibily be in a government and enact actual policy, this is it right now.

            Now would be a great time for the Greens to unite with Labor toward the policy area that is right now wrecking yet another Australian Federal government: climate change.

            Because of course, it’s Australian climate policy that really fucks New Zealand over big time.

            • Draco T Bastard 12.1.1.2.2.1
              23 August 2018 at 8:08 pm

              Thanks.

            • Exkiwiforces 12.1.1.2.2.2
              23 August 2018 at 9:21 pm

              It was the dumbest move the Greens have ever made in a long time and I agree Australia won’t be in this mess atm and it has put Australia back by 10yrs in terms green power investment, technology, industry and manufacturing. When you consider all the rare earths, base metals in the ground here in Oz and they could’ve been world leader in this.

        • Muttonbird 12.1.1.3
          23 August 2018 at 8:22 pm

          This is Greens’ fault? What planet are you living on?

          • RedLogix 12.1.1.3.1
            23 August 2018 at 8:31 pm

            The same one Ad describes above, the one where in 2009 refused to support Rudds carbon tax (now widely regarded as a huge missed opportunity) because ‘it wasn’t good enough’.

            Well of course it wasn’t good enough, but it was achievable and would have been an initial step in the correct direction. Once accepted and entrenched it could have been improved on latter. But nope … Rudd’s signature policy was scuttled and this triggered the succession of leadership instability ever since. It hugely damaged the ALP and they still languish with that stigma, and most certainly it would not have handed Abbott all the ammunition he used to win the 2013 election.

            It could have been all so different.

            • RedLogix 12.1.1.3.1.1
              23 August 2018 at 9:01 pm

              Just to correct the obvious omission:

              … “the one where in 2009 the Greens refused ” …

    • Exkiwiforces 12.2
      23 August 2018 at 7:48 pm

      It’s the inner Australian Royalty (convict) in them coming out atm which I have convict from my Australia Grandmother side which is Irish which explains my Spanish looks along few other traits and we Red Coat on the other side.

      • RedLogix 12.2.1
        23 August 2018 at 8:08 pm

        Only the toughest survived those very early days. We easily forget just what a brute and difficult life it was in Australia until almost the 60’s. The harsh climate, dangerous wildlife, poor transport, huge distances and small isolated communities could be pretty rough places to live. Especially for many women.

        And the cities were no better, an entrenched drinking culture, ready resort to fists, a fairly corrupt and brutal police force, combined with deeply conservative religious divisions and class snobbery was not pretty at all.

        And not forgetting the appalling position of the Aboriginal people.

        Yet the remarkable thing is that since roughly the time of Goff Whitlam (increasingly recognised as a transformative figure) the nation has changed very much for the better. There is still plenty to criticise if you look, and that tough convict legacy still shows its ugly head from time to time, but overall progress in the past 40 – 50 years has been extraordinary. I rate Australia as one of the two best countries in the world to live in. (The other being Canada.)

        • Muttonbird 12.2.1.1
          23 August 2018 at 8:31 pm

          I rate Australia as one of the two best countries in the world to live in. (The other being Canada.)

          If you ignore the treatment of indigenous people in those two countries. Or perhaps that is a requirement on your rating system?

          • RedLogix 12.2.1.1.1
            23 August 2018 at 8:56 pm

            If you want to make that your primary criterion then feel free to do so. The position and treatment of the indigenous peoples is certainly an important aspect of the story (and no I didn’t ignore it, my third para speaks directly to it) … but it would take a special kind of selectivity to make it the whole narrative.

            I spent a fair period of time working in the Canadian Arctic in 2016/7. Not many people, even Canadians get to visit Nunavut, the homeland of the Innuit peoples. Formed around 2000 its a state bigger than Western Europe with a population of around 34,000 across 17 settlements. I got to spend a week at Christmas in Cambridge Bay which is the administrative centre and the seat of their independent government.

            It was a challenging week. Absolutely in that short time I could only gather the most superficial of impressions and I’ve refrained from writing about it until now. There are a lot of obvious problems, the cultural dilution of television being one of the worst, closely followed by alcohol and the loss of talented young people to the south. But equally there is are plenty of optimistic signs and reasons to think these people will grasp and wrestle successfully their own destiny in years to come.

            As I type this I can look over at the inukshuk that was made for me, sitting rather spookily on my desk shelf. I’ve not a lot more to say, much of my time was spent resting, eating and listening to conversations in a very exotic location I never imagined in a million years I have the privilege to visit.

            • Muttonbird 12.2.1.1.1.1
              23 August 2018 at 9:30 pm

              Thanks for your holiday journal but your third para about the plight of indigenous people in Australia 60 years ago was an afterthought rather than ‘speaking directly’.

              And has anything really changed for them the way you claim Australia has been transformed post Gough Whitlam?

              Relatively, I think not.

              I get a lot of stick for my position on the embedded racism indicated in centrist and mainstream Australia. The casual stuff they seem to produce and accept every single day.

              I don’t buy the claims that they are ‘working on it’. They’ve had enough time on this. I think they are quite happy ignoring it quite frankly, and to your suggestion that the extremes in Australia are the problem I’d also call bullshit. Because in the case of Aboriginal Australia, it has always been the centre doing the real damage.

              • RedLogix …
                23 August 2018 at 9:39 pm

                Well you accused me of ‘ignoring the plight of indigenous peoples’ even though that was not what I was addressing. Still I responded in good faith. Clearly you aren’t willing to reciprocate. Good night.

                • Muttonbird …
                  23 August 2018 at 9:42 pm

                  Aussies (like yourself) never address the plight of indigenous people.

                  That’s the problem.

                  • RedLogix …
                    23 August 2018 at 9:50 pm

                    Last I looked my passport still had New Zealand on the cover (so your snide dig in brackets is utterly wrong). And I’m not obliged to pretend I know anything more about how to solve the issue that you or pretty much anyone else does.

                    Ultimately it’s the Aboriginal people themselves who are the only people who can know what they want for themselves and I’m not inclined to try and speak for a people I barely know.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      23 August 2018 at 9:57 pm

                      Fascinating. First you claim the current leadership crisis in the Aussie parliament is the fault of the Greens, and now you say the ball is the court of the Aboriginals.

                      Somehow they are in charge of their destiny?

                      I’d say you don’t have a clue but then you just display the same benighted position that mainstream Australia does. That the ‘Aboriginal problem’ is impossible to solve.

                      Australia seems so bewildered by this and paralysed by the guilt of the past.

                • Muttonbird …
                  23 August 2018 at 9:46 pm

                  And if ‘responding in good faith’ means regaling the events from your last bus-tour in Canada then I’d hate to be a tenant of yours.

                  • RedLogix …
                    23 August 2018 at 9:55 pm

                    You accused me of being unaware of the plight of indigenous peoples, and I responded with a small snapshot from an eight month period working in that area. If you knew anything at all about Cambridge Bay you would know that no-one gets there by bus trip. Its actually about a 4 hour flight north of Edmonton (itself well north) and you pretty much only get to stay there by invitation and arrangement with some locals.

                    But none of that is pertinent to what you are doing here, and I’m not participating any more.

        • Exkiwiforces 12.2.1.2
          23 August 2018 at 8:59 pm

          Yeah, dad comes from Broken Hill and before that a little place called Condobolin when was he born in house with a dirt floor in the early 50’s. Broken Hill was a very tough and rough place in 50’ to 70’s to grow up in, let alone work and I’m only starting understand what dad went through. hell even my Australian grandfather because he an out of towner working in the Zinc Corporation Mine could be re-trench anytime as he carried a white or green card as he wasn’t from the Hill where as dad couldn’t be re- trench until the week- mth- yr he started at the Broken Hill Con Ltd Mine.

          • RedLogix 12.2.1.2.1
            23 August 2018 at 9:11 pm

            Heh … my first big project here in Aus was at Nymagee about 50k north of Condobolin. Exactly the kind of place I had in mind when I wrote above. Unless you’ve lived there a while most kiwis have no idea just how hostile and different that sort of country is.

            Our best night at the Nymagee pub was when one disgruntled patron ( rock monkey of course) came back into the bar revving a running chainsaw. The bar manager whips out a shotgun and unloaded it through the roof. The deafening silence is the main thing I remember.

            • Exkiwiforces 12.2.1.2.1.1
              23 August 2018 at 11:55 pm

              There are still some rough towns/ pubs around especially in the far outback where the pub is a one stop place and the nearest cop or services is half day or days drive to.

              We once drove to the Hill from Sydney in the mid 80’s and most dangerous place we stop out was Wilcannia and even dad was a wee bit worried as it a Government payday.

  13. Ad 13
    23 August 2018 at 7:20 pm

    If Bishop gets the PM job she will dismiss Ardern’s refugee immigration sop like a Soprano.

  14. Exkiwiforces 14
    23 August 2018 at 8:07 pm

    Well I go off to walk the jack and come to find the cougar (couple of chicken stragglers I know from I job I did in MER with her give her that nickname) from the West is now in running. WTF

    Hope she wins and gives the general election the fair crack at the whip against old shifty.

  15. Exkiwiforces 15
    24 August 2018 at 12:22 am

    Watch the ABC’s 730 Report tonight and they had two former Lib Party members one Amanda Vanstone and Andrew Hewson and jez did they rip into the Right wing of the Lib Party. Amanda even said a few things about the mad monk while under the
    leadership of old rat eyes Howard and she didn’t how back on her views about the mad monk even poor old Hewson couldn’t get a word as she went of a run away .50 cal HMG or belt fed 40mm AGL.

    Both of them want Buttons to win the leadership spill if does happen (from the sounds of it they stuck on 40 names atm), so the public can kick the Liberal Party where it hurts and force the right of the party to wake up to itself this is not the 1950’s or the 60’s but the 21st century and the people want to see action CC.

  16. Jackel 16
    24 August 2018 at 12:53 am

    I believe it’s a case of Australians not knowing how to spell, especially the word politic(s), possibly due to their nasal twang.

  17. millsy 17
    24 August 2018 at 8:41 am

    A key takeaway from all this is that the government doesn’t control Australia. The bankers do. As well as the miners. And Murdoch.

  18. Exkiwiforces 18
    24 August 2018 at 11:51 am

    Old Buttons has got the ok from the Solicitor General and now we wait for the 43 names on the petition.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-08-24/dutton-legal-advice-clears-path-for-pm-bid/10159702

  19. CHCOff 19
    24 August 2018 at 1:33 pm

    As long as the political elite are in a state of constant jockeying for ‘influence’ and deals over one another, the more does the expansionist dragon claim as it’s own?

    Rocket science to any neo-liberal rorter worth his or her salt no doubt.

    “Former Trade Minister Andrew Robb walked out of the Cabinet and Parliament after negotiating the China-Australia Free Trade Agreement and into a $880,000-a-year job with a Chinese billionaire who has a 99-year-lease on the Port of Darwin. ”

    I don’t agree with the author’s association to lobbying by the way but what is described may have some relevance to the situation:

    https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/jamming-the-revolving-door-we-need-to-curb-rent-seekers-and-lobbyists,10892

  20. Dennis Frank 20
    24 August 2018 at 2:13 pm

    Liberals meeting in ten minutes, watch ABC live here: http://www.abc.net.au/news/newschannel/

  21. Dennis Frank 21
    24 August 2018 at 2:48 pm

    Julie Bishop eliminated in first ballot. Turnbull not yet resigned from parliament.

  22. Dennis Frank 22
    24 August 2018 at 2:54 pm

    Scott Morrison elected Liberal Leader & Oz PM! 45-40, Dutton got the numbers wrong. Maybe set up by a few centrists…

  23. Timeforacupoftea 23
    24 August 2018 at 6:57 pm

    Haaaa
    I heard on radio live tonight that Morrison is a Maori.

    Australia beats New Zealand to have a Maori Prime Minister to lead a country !

    Oh well we are very used to being beaten by Australia in every thing.