Tuwhera mike 23/07/2014

Written By: - Date published: 6:30 am, July 23rd, 2014 - 238 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

openmike Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

238 comments on “Tuwhera mike 23/07/2014 ”

  • Comments are now closed

  1. Tautoko Viper 1
    23 July 2014 at 6:31 am

    The Herald are push-polling for National. Just LOOK at the question on education
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11297568

    It is framed as smaller classes/more teachers OR improving teacher quality

    This is deliberate push polling based on John Key’s soundbite which gives a totally incorrect view of Labour’s policy.

    Can this comment be transferred into Open Mike today if possible???

    [Done – MS]

    • felix 1.1
      23 July 2014 at 7:48 am

      That’s a very leading question. It’s phrased as:

      Labour = smaller classes
      vs
      National = higher teaching standards

      What absolute bollocks. What do they think the point of smaller classes is if not higher teaching standards? ffs.

      Surely higher teaching standards is the desired result of both approaches. But they’re comparing the method on Labour’s part with the desired goal on National’s. Why wasn’t the question phrased as:

      Labour = smaller classes
      vs
      National = more money for some teachers

      Or better still, because “smaller classes” actually means “more teachers”, a more honest phrasing would be:

      Labour = more teachers
      vs
      National = more money for some teachers

      Ok so that’s a crazy dream to expect that from the herald, I know. My next crazy dream is that Labour MPs will be all over the radio and tv and interwebs spelling this out, starting a hour ago.

      • Tracey 1.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 8:13 am

        god forbid we could have both!

      • Draco T Bastard 1.1.2
        23 July 2014 at 8:17 am

        Surely higher teaching standards is the desired result of both approaches.

        Nope. Lower teaching standards is what you get from National’s approach. This is a fairly obvious result of throwing ever more work at the teachers so that they don’t actually have time to teach and thus we must assume that National’s desired result is worse teaching.

      • Gosman 1.1.3
        23 July 2014 at 9:03 am

        Essentially you won’t be happy unless the Herald did a poll asking whether voters prefered Labour’s plan to inprove education out of sight ot National’s plan to screw over our children.

        It is at least good to see that the issue many leftists have with the media is not bias. Just that they aren’t biased towards the left of the political spectrum.

        • You_Fool 1.1.3.1
          23 July 2014 at 10:26 am

          Actually I would have been happy with the following question

          Is it better to improve teacher quality by

          Offering incentives to teachers to perform better
          Or
          Training more teachers to reduce class size (or maybe Training more teachers to reduce teacher work load)

          • logie97 1.1.3.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 4:27 pm

            The problem is that National has set a false agenda. For the last 6 years the mantra has been, New Zealand schools failing our children. First it was the introduction of “Standards” – and then the quality of teaching.

            The premise is wrong. Whilst there can always be room for up-skilling of the educators, ERO and robust in-school assessment of teaching practice, ensured that best practice was happening. Schools were offered brilliant in-school professional development through ” Team Solutions”, but the ministry saw fit to disband that group by privatising it and reducing the courses and expert personnel accordingly.

            The journalists have swallowed the meme and consistently look for opportunities to bash the teachers and the profession.

            Any half professional journalist should be examining closely what the National prescription for raising achievement is compared with what was in place. They might also be asking
            (1) How are they going to identify these bushy tailed, blue eyed experts (surely not the ones with all the stars in their planning folders)?
            (2) How are they going to ensure that the classroom programme of this “expert” is going to continue to run smoothly while the “expert” is away mentoring 40% of the week?
            (3) Have they consulted the parents of the children in these “buzzing” classrooms if they want a job-share going on.

        • felix 1.1.3.2
          23 July 2014 at 6:29 pm

          “Essentially you won’t be happy unless blah blah blah”

          You could assume that Gosman. Or alternately you could read what I wrote which was the exact opposite of that.

          I’ll type more slowly this time: Two methods have been proposed, both with the stated goal of improving the quality of teaching. In the question posed, one of those methods was described by referring only to the proposed method, the other by referring to both the proposed method and the stated goal.

          That is called loading the question.

          An unloaded question would either refer to both by describing the method and the goal, or to both by describing only the method.

          This is really simple stuff Gosman. You have no excuse for not following it.

    • Saarbo 1.2
      23 July 2014 at 7:54 am

      Agree. National policy is probably unworkable for a start. Additional teachers is only one of the improvement that Labour is proposing, add in funding of Reading Recovery (which is critical but has been cut in many schools in my area over the last few years) , increased funding per student (which could be used for Professional Deveopment…so will directly improve Teacher Standards), Funding of school donations and Computers for kids.

      So the biased piece of shit called The New Zealand Herald keeps pushing National, oh well, their days are numbered anyway (National and NZH).

    • vto 1.3
      23 July 2014 at 8:21 am

      At the risk of repetition…..

      The Herald is owned by big business multi-national corporations – as such the Herald has a built-in bias and is incapable of independent and objective reporting.

      Legislation should be passed requiring all media to outline on their front page who owns them.

      The Herald is conflicted to all hell and in accordance with its ownership has a far right bias.

      • Colonial Viper 1.3.1
        23 July 2014 at 8:45 am

        critical points – mass media standards and reform is a must – one good way of holding corporate media to account is by setting up powerful public interest broadcasting.

        • vto 1.3.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 8:54 am

          that too, but clear and simple disclosure to the public of the ownership interests on the front page, with links to further detail online about ownership actions and political leanings over time would have a greater effect.

          • Colonial Viper 1.3.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 10:01 am

            transparency of ownership etc is an important element – but people still believe what they read and see. So best to make it quality as well as doing all the transparency stuff.

        • bad12 1.3.1.2
          23 July 2014 at 9:36 am

          The Fairfux arm of the New Zealand newspaper industry maybe in for a major shake-up in the next little while,

          Listening to the bloke that does commentary of ‘the media’ on my wireless, RadioNZ National, yesterday, He seemed to think that there is in the next 12-18 months a big chance that the current ‘owners’ of that particular chain will be looking to sell,

          It would be nice to think that any new owner/owners would address the ugly biased ‘opinion’ that has now virtually subsumed ‘political journalism’ as the discourse put forward by the major print media, but, such a thought isn’t one i would hold my breath waiting for…

          • Gosman 1.3.1.2.1
            23 July 2014 at 10:01 am

            Here’s an idea. How about a bunch of you lefties get together some funding and purchase the media assets of Fairfax in NZ. I am sure you could find some left leaning investors to help out. Kim Dotcom might even be convinced to contribute. I am sure he is interested in getting a favourable press.

            • vto 1.3.1.2.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 10:08 am

              That’s not an idea.

              How about you face up to the reality of distorted reporting due to the ownership of the Herald. You are such a stuck-in-a-rut partisan hack.

              • Gosman …
                23 July 2014 at 10:46 am

                It’s an idea alright just one that lefties like you won’t ever take up the challenge to bring in to reality because you enjoy whining about how unfair it is that the media is against you too much.

                As for me facing up to reality on the media bias, I have constantly asked for how this control from on high actually works in practical terms in relation to getting a biased report. All I get is vague generalisations and comments along the line that I am ignoring reality. If it is reality then tell me how it works in this reality. How does the corporate bosses pass on down their instructions to the journalists on the front line?

                • vto …
                  23 July 2014 at 10:54 am

                  same way bosses everywhere pass down their requirements to the front line, what do you expect? do you not get out much?

                  • Gosman …
                    23 July 2014 at 12:18 pm

                    Thanks for proving my point about using vague generalisations as evidence of right wing control of the media vto.

                    Btw when my boss passes on his/her requirements they tend to do so in a manner that is traceable (e.g. e-mail). Is the media so dominated by right wingers there is not a single whistleblower who can provide the evidence of this sort of directive from on high?

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      23 July 2014 at 12:29 pm

                      Btw when my boss passes on his/her requirements they tend to do so in a manner that is traceable (e.g. e-mail).

                      Really, most bosses just talk and talk is untraceable unless rare conditions, such as witnesses, apply.

                    • Gosman …
                      23 July 2014 at 12:53 pm

                      It is a foolish person who does only what he is told and doesn’t ask for it in writing.

                    • phillip ure …
                      23 July 2014 at 2:32 pm

                      you can’t be that thick/simplistic..gossie..

                      ..the person owns the media..

                      ..the person hires an editor whose jib-cut he/she likes..

                      ..said editor hires sub-editors etc..

                      ..that also reflect that corporate ethos..

                      ..which brings us down to the reporters..

                      ..and the reports they have to file to ‘get past’ their subeditor/censor..

                      ..are you seeing a pattern here..?..at all..?

                    • phillip ure …
                      23 July 2014 at 2:48 pm

                      and why would anyone want to invest in the uber-polluting/dead-duck/sunset-industry that is the dead-tree-media..?

                      ..and have you seen the quality of what they produce..?

                      ..whoar..!

                      ..one of the main reasons i started my news-thang is because we were so ill-served by our corporate-media..

                      ..and we are still ‘so ill-served’..by those dinosaurs teetering towards extinction..

                      ..invest in them..?

                      ..you must be mad man…!

                    • Murray Olsen …
                      24 July 2014 at 2:30 am

                      Fox News people in the US already have gone public about interference in stories. In Aotearoa, the papers are more likely to just hire right wingers who understand what’s required. It doesn’t need written directives, but you knew that anyway.

                • Draco T Bastard …
                  23 July 2014 at 12:21 pm

                  How does the corporate bosses pass on down their instructions to the journalists on the front line?

                  Several ways:

                  1. They hire editors that think the same way they do with a publishing history to match
                  2. The editors then hire journalists with the same thought patterns
                  3. Editorial direction and the inherent biases in the journalists result in inherent bias in the organisation
                  4. Owners can, and do, give the editors direct instructions on how to address certain issues as well as indirect pressure.
                  • Gosman …
                    23 July 2014 at 12:35 pm

                    Undoubtably owners can and do give instructions. These tend to be traceable hence why you can link to an article showing such a situation. Now all you need to do is link to an article showing it occuring in NZ.

                    BTW how did John Campbell get employed given his obvious left leanings?

                    • Shut up Gosman …
                      23 July 2014 at 1:13 pm

                      Draco answers your question above in enough detail, but on you blabber anyway. The underlying claim of your question is Culture Doesn’t Exist. Stop boring us with your cotton-in-ears arm waving. Only someone dumb enough to think John Campbell is left leaning could muster the audacity to claim culture doesn’t exist.

                    • vto …
                      23 July 2014 at 10:03 pm

                      bullshit gosman. you most definitely don’t get out much

                • framu …
                  23 July 2014 at 12:41 pm

                  “Here’s an idea. How about a bunch of you lefties get together some funding ”

                  heres a better idea – come up with something new for a change

                  ohh – wait for it, i here a zimbabwe coming

                  and since when have you ever given a shit about what gets said back to you – you wont accept anything anyway so why do you ask?

            • alex 1.3.1.2.1.2
              23 July 2014 at 11:06 am

              Gosman…the paper would go under so fast..not enough people would read it..all negative news..you can only write so many good news stories about David C…Anyway isn’t this blog doing the job anyway..

              • McFlock …
                23 July 2014 at 1:51 pm

                lol
                As opposed to the success of having a tory liar as editor of “Truth”?

        • Gosman 1.3.1.3
          23 July 2014 at 1:31 pm

          You mean like they have in say the UK with the BBC.

          How does that influence the rest of the media there?

  2. SPC 2
    23 July 2014 at 7:01 am

    Why oh why say a ‘three’ day holiday with the family was too long, when the polls show most people had no problem with it …. indicative of support for politicians taking time out to be with family.

    • Ad 2.1
      23 July 2014 at 7:04 am

      Pretty rich when the PM had a couple of weeks.

      Everyone at work thought it was a ridiculous beatup and had wry sympathy for DC.

      • phillip ure 2.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 7:24 am

        why the f… did he issue a public apology

        ..for it..?

        ..and for his scarf..?

        ..i don’t like those yellow socks he affects..

        ..where’s my apology..?

        ..and he could/.should apologise for that poor-ignoring clark-govt..

        ..that he and all his compatriots were part of..

        • You_Fool 2.1.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 8:26 am

          I would not be surprised to find that the apology by Cunliffe was heavily edited to take out all the bits where he is blatantly mocking the media for the beat up.

          My favourite bit was with TV3 then bashing Cunliffe for apologising for “minor” issues, after they spent a day with everyone else going on about these “minor” issues

          • Ant 2.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 8:46 am

            He shouldn’t have said anything that sounded like an apology then. He seems to do it all the time, adds in something along the lines of “I’m learning”, “I need to do better on that”, “its not helpful”, “I’ll try to do better in the future” the media then take those and turn them into bites that authorize and give substance to the smears.

            I’ve been disappointed on his performance in that regard, he’s under heaps of pressure, more than I’ve seen any other leader be under, but… he needs a better script and needs to bloody stick to that script.

            • Tom Jackson 2.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 9:53 am

              Perhaps he’s privately given up. I would not blame him.

              I’m not sure how it would be possible to portray a positive image when the media are hell bent on editing and spinning everything you say.

              New Zealand is in a strange place at the moment.

        • The Al1en 2.1.1.2
          23 July 2014 at 8:45 am

          “he could/.should apologise for that poor-ignoring clark-govt”

          The Clark government that provided night classes, interest free loans for further education, Kiwi bank 100% start up mortgages, working for families to come off the dole in to part time work for a full weeks wage, free child care with trained teachers etc..

          What did Clark ever do for the poor of NZ. 🙄

          You should apologise for being totally maliciously disingenuous.

          • bad12 2.1.1.2.1
            23 July 2014 at 9:55 am

            Alien, a positively glowing recommendation of the Clark Government, so where then did the 280,000 kids living in poverty come from,

            Did the whole demographic of such children just ‘pop up’ in the time of the Slippery lead National Government???…

            • The Al1en 2.1.1.2.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 9:59 am

              The underlying point being Bad, that the poor were not really ignored at all, and though it wasn’t a left wing utopia by any standards, compared to the Shipley government before and the Key government after, it was a world away.

              If you could choose a third term for Key or have back Clark, what would be better for the poor of NZ?

              • Chooky …
                23 July 2014 at 10:12 am

                The Allen +100…the poor originate from the Rogernomics Labour govt ( some of whom still have positions of power both in and outside of the Labour Party ) ….where many hundreds of thousands of Maori and Pakeha New Zealanders were laid off work to become the generational beginnings of unemployed families in poverty

                …Nactional continued with the Neolib start made by Rogernomics

                …to blame Helen Clark who was one of the few, along with Jim Anderton , to NOT endorse Rogernomics and to oppose it at her peril, is disingenuous imo and possibly misogynist ….i question the real motives and agendas of such people

                ….it was also Helen Clark that kept the subsequent wreck of the Labour Party afloat ( when many former Labour Party activists just wished it would sink)

                • The Al1en …
                  23 July 2014 at 10:22 am

                  @Chooky

                  You have a realistic grasp of it.

                  It’s bad enough having history rewritten by the nats, let alone 1% loony left minorities like PU getting disproportionate air time on an issue they clearly have ulterior motives over.

                • phillip ure …
                  23 July 2014 at 10:54 am

                  u r talking shite chooky..

                  ..the clark years were just more neo-lib/rogernomics..

                  ..she had nine years of boomtimes..to make things right..

                  ..and she completely and utterly failed at that task/responsibility..

                  ..and a new question ..which i am gagging to find out the answer to….

                  .(.and which will be answered by the dotcom-data drop..with greenwald..)

                  ..is just who opened the door..and let the americans spy all over us?
                  ..was it key..or clark…?

                  ..i feel that many in labour are dreading those revelations as much as key/national are..

              • bad12 …
                23 July 2014 at 10:25 am

                Alien, my opinion, on the question you pose, Key/Clark Governments vis a vis ‘the poor’,

                Pretty much even, there’s little difference down at the Bene level where on the day the money hits the bank account its all gone and the only way to survive is to make another trip to WINZ for a special needs grant which at the time of the Clark Government were quite freely being okayed by that office,

                And, on the day that the Bene hits the bank account and its all gone and the only way to survive is to make another trip down to the local hall to access the food bank which is the ‘norm’ for those who cannot manage under the auspices of the toughened WINZ regime of the Slippery National Government,

                Of course the Clark Government could have, as the Ministry of Social Development have belatedly advised Slippery’s Government to do, devised the family tax credit to include beneficiary reliant families with children…

            • Tom Jackson 2.1.1.2.1.2
              23 July 2014 at 10:12 am

              Who knows.

              On the other hand, National’s policy for helping poor people is essentially cribbed from an Amway seminar.

            • Te Reo Putake 2.1.1.2.1.3
              23 July 2014 at 10:13 am

              No, it really started with the Bolger government. The proportion of kids living below the income poverty threshold in 1990 was around 7%. By the end of the nineties the figure was 3 times as high. The Clark governments bought the figure down by about a third, but it has risen under Key back to the Bolger era levels. The main driver appears to be housing costs, including the brutality of market rents for public housing.

              Clark can take credit for taking 80-90,000 kids out of poverty in her time. Key has revered that in less than 5 years.

              • phillip ure …
                23 July 2014 at 10:43 am

                but clark and that govt can take no credit for ignoring the poorest children of all..

                ..the children of the unemployed/benificiaries..

                ..she did nothing to undo the evils wrought by richardson..

                ..for nine long fucken years..and in boom-times…

                ..and of course..by also doing nothing..

                ..clark /that govt also so well prepared the ground for paula benny-basher..

                ..and her ensuing pogrom on those poorest/weakest..

                ..and guess what..?

                ..labour still are not promising to put that right…

                ..and have still not acknowledged/owned just how ‘wrong’ that was…

                ..and they wonder why those people they most fucked over still don’t trust them..

                ..that’s my ‘wonder’..their ‘wonder’..

        • Kiwiri 2.1.1.3
          23 July 2014 at 10:10 am

          If a few Labour supporters can get together and quickly organise the mass production and knitting of some Red Labour scarves (made with NZ wool and knitted locally), those scarves can fundraise and publicise Labour’s campaign and can be worn by many.
          I would wear them all this winter!
          And also when I make my trip to the polling booth (surely wearing a coloured scarf would be ok with electoral laws about not campaigning on polling day?).

          • Jenny Kirk 2.1.1.3.1
            23 July 2014 at 12:48 pm

            Yes Kiwiri – you can wear your colours to the polling booth. You are just not allowed to have the words Vote, Labour on your colours – so a red scarf is a great idea !!

      • Rodel 2.1.2
        23 July 2014 at 7:42 am

        Ad
        ‘Everyone at work thought it was a ridiculous beatup and had wry sympathy for DC.’
        Yes-Talked to a relative last night who went with daughter to listen to DC in spite of leaning toward national.
        They are not especially political but are so sick of the media bias against DC and sycophantic to JK that they are seriously considering vote Labour.
        Was good to hear.

      • Gosman 2.1.3
        23 July 2014 at 8:55 am

        Funnily enough all my work colleagues (men and women) were just having a laugh at Cunliffe’s expense. That ‘I’m sorry for being a man’ comment has impacted his reputation.

        • fender 2.1.3.1
          23 July 2014 at 9:31 am

          My bet is your colleagues are actually laughing at you, and want to see you take some much needed sick leave..

          • phillip ure 2.1.3.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 9:37 am

            r u not well there..gossie..?..

            ..self-induced..?..

            ..lifestyle outcomes..?

            • phillip ure 2.1.3.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 9:39 am

              as a distraction from cunnliffe..

              ..they should get ‘ducky’ to don the lycra again..

              ..and to strut about..and say stupid things..

              ..for the amusement of the media..

          • Gosman 2.1.3.1.2
            23 July 2014 at 10:56 am

            Yes I suppose when one of my colleagues mentioned the failings of males and I responded by asking her if she wanted me to apologise for being a man like David Cunliffe that her response and the associated laughter about Cunliffe being a wet blanket and rather pathetic was actually directed at me. However I’m not trying to be in position to become PM in less than two months so I don’t care. David Cunliffe on the other hand should care how people perceive him.

            • fender 2.1.3.1.2.1
              23 July 2014 at 11:11 am

              I’m not surprised your female colleague mentioned the failings of males in your presence, shame you didn’t take it seriously like David does.

            • Banjo 2.1.3.1.2.2
              23 July 2014 at 12:36 pm

              A man showing emotion and empathy for victims of domestic abuse is derided as a “wet blanket” and “rather pathetic” at Gosmans workplace? Doesn’t sound like a very healthy workplace culture. It’s sad how Cunliffe has been attacked for a human reaction, but the fact that Paula Bennett, who reportedly sat on stage playing on her phone after she gave her speech – giving the impression that she doesn’t give a shit, doesn’t rate a mention.

        • dv 2.1.3.2
          23 July 2014 at 12:45 pm

          I am interested that you work and can spend a lot of time commenting on the standard.
          Your boss must very very tolerant.

    • Tracey 2.2
      23 July 2014 at 8:15 am

      crazy… Why not say i mixed work with family and wont apologise for putting my children first in a year they have and will see so little of me. Politicians families give up enough already so i gave up three days for them.

    • Chooky 2.3
      23 July 2014 at 8:28 am

      ‘A brief word on Cunliffe saying sorry for a 3 day holiday’

      By Martyn Bradbury / July 22, 2014 / 14 Comments

      I’m not sure who the bloody hell is advising Cunliffe to apologise about a 3 day holiday, but it’s stupid. If you want to know what angry white reactionary NZ thinks about anything, go to a stuff.co.nz poll. Here’s their latest sideswipe at Cunliffe…

      • ianmac 2.3.1
        23 July 2014 at 10:01 am

        Actually it might be quite clever to say you are sorry for taking a 3 day holiday. It highlights that it was 3 days and not a week and most people would say only a 3 day holiday? So what!

        • Chooky 2.3.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 10:20 am

          @ ianmac ….good point…i think many NZers are beginning to see the ridiculousness of these criticisms

          ….and the concerted attacks on Winston just served to make him more popular.

          Most NZers do have a sense of fair play and most are not dumb!

      • greywarbler 2.3.2
        23 July 2014 at 10:53 am

        Cunliffe apologising again!
        FFS stop! People will think that you really mean that you are sorry you are a man.
        Man up and put carpers and journalists in their place like Winston does. Now there is a man who can come from a low point and win votes.

        We have journalists like hyenas, and really they speak for the shallow money-seekers in our country. But there are a lot of good NZs who aren’t down there that David should be directing his thoughts to. If he doesn’t think the questions that are being asked are relevant or fair, a short dismissive comment, a move to what the current important thing is, and a Winston-type query about why the journalist is not discussing this important matter.

        edited

    • Anne 2.4
      23 July 2014 at 9:59 am

      My guess is, the senior ABCers made a big song and dance about it in Caucus yesterday and he felt compelled to appease them by apologising.

      The public were on your side David – STOP APOLOGISING!

      I want to know who was the brat who whined to the SST? If anyone has any inside knowledge would they share it with us please? The sooner he’s outed the better. We know there’s more than one of these tittlle-tattlers in Caucus but until someone is made an example of… then it will happen again and again.

      • bad12 2.4.1
        23 July 2014 at 10:11 am

        There was an intimation on this subject made on my wireless,RadioNZ National, this morning, sorry i cant even remember the context of what was being discussed nor who was discussing it,

        However, mentioned as ‘the culprits’ were ”the candidate for Napier” and ”the candidate for Te Tai Tokerau”

        My pick for the ‘leaker’ is ”the candidate for making shit up” and i cannot quite understand how so many can take an unattributed piece of Jonolism from the mass media as ‘gospel’ when we all are fully aware that these media have for quite some time now happily been quoting ”the candidate for making shit up” in their efforts to rake muck…

        • Anne 2.4.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 10:28 am

          They have both denied it bad12 and we have to believe them unless there’s proof to the contrary. Some insider talked that’s obvious but there’s every likely-hood whatever they said was embellished upon by the journo.

        • veutoviper 2.4.1.2
          23 July 2014 at 10:48 am

          However, mentioned as ‘the culprits’ were ”the candidate for Napier” and ”the candidate for Te Tai Tokerau”

          As Anne said, both have denied this BUT it was Key who suggested these two as the possible culprit(s) in Question Time yesterday. So, Key again stirring the pot ….

          http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11297740

          PS – this has gone into moderation as I misspelled my name.

          [lprent: And that means you generally have to wait for me to have a break as I’ve started a new job and it is a bit busy at present. ]

        • Jenny Kirk 2.4.1.3
          23 July 2014 at 12:52 pm

          It wouldn’t have been Kelvin Davis, Bad 12 – he’s not that sort of person.

          • bad12 2.4.1.3.1
            23 July 2014 at 4:20 pm

            Aha Jenny Kirk, as i say above my belief is that the story came directly from ”the candidate for making shit up”, also known in some circles as the journalist interviewing Her/His computer screen…

      • Chooky 2.4.2
        23 July 2014 at 10:24 am

        +100 Anne…deserves to go!…i note Shearer has not ruled out another go at being leader….if this were to become a reality this really would sink the Labour Party ( Shearer is most popular with the Nacts and Hooton for obvious reasons)

      • greywarbler 2.4.3
        23 July 2014 at 10:32 am

        @Anne 9.59
        +100
        Every breath you take
        Every move you make
        Every bond you break
        Every step you take
        I’ll be watching you

        Every single day
        Every word you say
        Every game you play
        Every night you stay
        I’ll be watching you

        • Anne 2.4.3.1
          23 July 2014 at 10:49 am

          Thanks greywarbler. Enjoyed that. Ooohoo… if only I was young again. 😉

          • greywarbler 2.4.3.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 10:59 am

            @Anne 10.49
            Your thoughts are still young. And anyway youth isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. While you’ve got it you don’t know how to appreciate it. You need some years on, to get to that understanding.

      • Hami Shearlie 2.4.4
        23 July 2014 at 11:10 am

        This morning Annette King said the person was not one of the Caucus – John Key alluded to it being someone in Napier – That got me thinking hard!! Like to know how Key knows the person is from Napier?

        • Clemgeopin 2.4.4.1
          23 July 2014 at 11:37 am

          If Key said that it shows the depth of gutter type of politics that Key, a nation’s Prime Minister, practices while exhibiting a calculated veneer of respectability in his public image. I lost any respect I had for Key when he admitted that he keeps a dirt file on Labour MPs in his top drawer but said he “doesn’t do anything with it”!

          [ Tuesday 22 Oct 2013 6:31a.m. TV News:

          John Key says “plenty of people” call him with information about misbehaving Labour MPs but he doesn’t do anything with it.

          “I’ve always done the same thing – written it down and put it in my top drawer,” he told reporters.

          “Maybe I’ll write a book one day, it’ll be fascinating.”

          The Prime Minister isn’t getting involved in any of the gossip and speculation about Auckland’s Mayor Len Brown either.

          Mr Brown last week admitted he had a two-year affair with Bevan Chuang, who unsuccessfully stood for a seat in this month’s local body elections.

          Ms Chuang ran on a right-wing ticket alongside Mr Brown’s main rival John Palino, whose campaign manager was former National Party president John Slater.

          The affair was revealed on a blog run by Mr Slater’s son, Cameron.

          John Slater has denied any knowledge of the affair.

          Mr Key says the National Party didn’t have anything to do with it.

          “The first I knew about it was when I read it on that blog,” he said.

          Read more: http://www.3news.co.nz/John-Key-reveals-top-drawer-secrets/tabid/1607/articleID/318203/Default.aspx#ixzz38F90r444 ]

        • Tracey 2.4.4.2
          23 July 2014 at 12:07 pm

          sorry? Key took time to comment on who might have squealed to the press about cunliffes break, but cant apologise to the victim of an alleged sexual assault, an alleged criminial allowed to leave NZ by his govts incompetence? Is this the new definition of a man down at the rugby clubs?

      • Clemgeopin 2.4.5
        23 July 2014 at 11:19 am

        Cunliffe was reported to having a fairly good idea who it was, though he said he does not think it was any of the MPs.

      • felix 2.4.6
        23 July 2014 at 6:42 pm

        Anne, if I recall correctly, the squealer was only ever referred to as a “senior party insider”.

        What makes you think it’s anyone connected to the Labour party?

        • Anne 2.4.6.1
          23 July 2014 at 6:59 pm

          Right you are felix. My comment re- tittle-tattlers in Caucus was misleading. What I meant was someone in the Caucus couldn’t resist tittle-tattling and it was the recipient who passed it on to the HoS journo. Don’t know if that is exactly what happened but it looks that way to me.

          I can tell you that sort of thing rarely happened pre -1984. The Caucus members in those days remained loyal to the Party hierarchy at all times. It wasn’t until years later that odd bits and pieces came out and then only when they could do no longer do any damage.

          • felix 2.4.6.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 8:32 pm

            That’s if there was ever a caucus tittle-tattler at all in this instance. The story could well have begun and ended between the senior (national) party insider and the willfully gullible journo.

    • The Al1en 3.1
      23 July 2014 at 8:39 am

      Could you manage an increase of four days?

    • Paupial 3.2
      23 July 2014 at 9:45 am

      PU

      Not that I disagree entirely, but our present labour market is geared to; having many working long days with an unemployed reserve driving wages down – and acting as a threat to workers of being discarded onto that same scrapheap if they dare complain about working conditions or safety.

      Also, there are skill shortages in some areas of employment, but a surplus of unskilled (or rather; those untrained for a specific job). Going to a one size fits all 32-hr/ 4 day work week might just lead to people being expected to “do more with less” and effectively working; unpaid, undeclared, and unnotified overtime (even more so than at present). I personally like the idea of a; central government apportioned work-hour bank (a bit like the proposed kiwipower scheme), where skills are matched up to available employment with the aim of eradicating unemployment – however, I can’t see it flying in the present business environment.

      Thanks for the link though, it was interesting to see that there is a bit of momentum in this area.

      • phillip ure 3.2.1
        23 July 2014 at 9:50 am

        re 4 day wk..

        ..i actually think a 3.5 day working week wd be best..

        ..and wd be a much more efficient uses of resources..

        ..as a seven day wk wd become standard…for most businesses..

        ..with those seven days split in two..

        ..what’s not to love about that..?

        ..and carlos sim has come out with a 3 day 10 hr day working week. plan/idea..

        http://www.alternet.org/labor/mexican-billionaire-carlos-slim-calls-three-day-workweek-improve-quality-life

        ..which is another viable option..

        ..and arbeit doesn’t make you frei..

        ..frei-time makes you frei..eh..?

        • Colonial Viper 3.2.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 9:54 am

          3.5d/wk is ideal, with the remaining time devoted to family, learning, hobbies and community volunteer work. And politics of course! Which is what the Tories would hate…

          • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 12:44 pm

            And politics of course! Which is what the Tories would hate…

            I think that that’s why they like decreasing wages so much – it means people have to work longer and thus have less time to think about their position and how it could be improved.

        • The Al1en 3.2.1.2
          23 July 2014 at 9:54 am

          Could you manage the increase to a three and a half day working week?

          • Paupial 3.2.1.2.1
            23 July 2014 at 10:03 am

            T Allen

            If you regard commenting on TS as community work (as I do), then our phillip would work way more than a 3.5 day week! Especially if you include his website (though I’ve only glanced at it the once; all those dots just made my eyes glaze over, I scroll past them often enough here to not have to search out more of his idiosyncratic punctuation).

            • The Al1en 3.2.1.2.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 10:08 am

              But for real work with wages and paye, it’s not really work at all, no matter how community spirited or self serving it is.
              It’s easy to go on about solutions to ending poverty and those poor people going without, but if you’re not prepared to get stuck in and help then you’re part of the problem.

              And the website …fucken…who(a)re…eyes..glazed… over… alright… eh?
              Needs more smilies.

              • Pasupial …
                23 July 2014 at 10:39 am

                T Allen

                If you regard wages & PAYE as the sine qua non of work, then you must also regard the much-vaunted (almost mythical) Entrepreneur and other self-employed types as being unemployed. I don’t get paid for the effort I put into raising my son, but it is sure enough work!

                If we had a UBI, then the forms of work which have no immediate monetary reward for the individual, yet contribute to the well being of society would flourish (there are entire posts about this if you care to scroll back through TS’s history).

                Also agree with PU & CV that a 3.5 day work week would be optimal, but I’m not holding out much hope for the immediate future.

                • The Al1en …
                  23 July 2014 at 11:16 am

                  @Pasupial
                  To be fair, writing crap on the blogs isn’t a job, it’s something any of us can do, but end child poverty or help the poor it won’t.

                  @ Fender

                  Presently unemployed and struggling to find work, so not saying what Bennett is at all.
                  PU is not anger inducing to me, but his comments need checks and balances as many of them are wrong, insincere or blatant politicking.

              • fender …
                23 July 2014 at 10:55 am

                T Allen

                1) Like Bennett you seem to be suggesting there are ample situations vacant to go around.

                2) I once had a run-in with Phillip, we got over it soon after and prefer to concentrate on directing hostilities at the right wingers now. I know you have been suffering from the actions of your creepy ex boss but if your residue anger is now being directed towards Phillip it’s unfair and unhealthy.

                • phillip ure …
                  23 July 2014 at 11:53 am

                  to be honest fender..i don’t recall it at all..

                  ..and i don’t even recall having a falling-out with you..

                  ..but i don’t..usually..remember/hang onto those things..

                  ..i think the essence of healthy political-debate/dialogue..

                  .. is to be able disagree vigorously with an individuals arguments/ideas on one day..

                  ..and then the next to be able to honestly murmur agreement at an idea/argument from that same individual ..that you agree with..

                  ..to sit and sulk..forever more..is the essence of unhealthy political-dialogue/debate..

                  ..and in my case any ‘feud’ is very one-sided..as i clearly don’t remember..

              • Draco T Bastard …
                23 July 2014 at 12:47 pm

                It’s easy to go on about solutions to ending poverty and those poor people going without, but if you’re not prepared to get stuck in and help then you’re part of the problem.

                Coming up with those solutions takes work – often without pay – and you’re not going to have any solutions unless someone is doing that work.

  4. amirite 4
    23 July 2014 at 7:57 am

    I’m getting really sick and tired of the anti-Cunliffe barrage in the media, and even though everyone deserves some degree of criticism, what’s going on there is overkill.
    Meanwhile, short of being found out to be a paedophile or a murderer, John Key can do no wrong.
    Disgusting!

    • Tom Jackson 4.1
      23 July 2014 at 8:15 am

      It’s all right. The UK establishment covered up for paedophiles, and nothing’s going to happen to them, so it wouldn’t be any different here.

      After all, a conservative run paedophile ring pales in comparison to David Cunliffe signing a form letter 10 years ago for a constituent.

      • You_Fool 4.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 8:33 am

        Or how about that time he wore a red scarf! I mean even John Key eating live babies whilst molesting them would not be as bad as that, and then Cunliffe appolisiged for wearing it. You wouldn’t hear John Key apologise about eating and molesting babies, because he knows how to lead!

    • Tracey 4.2
      23 July 2014 at 8:17 am

      in his soundbite on tv3 he said something like he was going to focus on the issues “you” guys say are important to nzers…

      Why direct it to the media, look at them but speak to us.

  5. phillip ure 5
    23 July 2014 at 8:02 am

    the emoji-backlash has begun..!

    ..yay..!

    ..and not before bloody time..!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/emojidaydream_n_5592597.html

    • The Al1en 5.1
      23 July 2014 at 8:49 am

      A literary standards critique by Philip 🙄 😆 😉

      • McFlock 5.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 2:02 pm

        🙂

        • phillip ure 5.1.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 3:16 pm

          emoji stands for:

          excluding
          measurement
          or
          joining
          ideas..

          ..(not many people know that..)

          • phillip ure 5.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 3:25 pm

            now there’s a new meme..

            ..make up new meanings for known acronyms..

            ..i’ll go first..

            ..seeing as the spca signs-off on/approves all of the vivisectors’ experiments on animals..

            ..in the interests of accuracy..

            ..should we re-name the spca..as the society for the protection (promotion?) of cruelty to animals..?

            ..how about the auckland regional council..?

            ..the a.r.c..

            ..you could go with the obvious/vulgar auckland region ((ladyparts)

            ..or u cd try a bit harder..auckland region careerists…

            • bad12 5.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 5:06 pm

              As 10 year old’s we used to do exactly what you are suggesting via all the acronyms in the back of the dictionary,

              Our rules allowed the addition of the odd extra letter here and there, thus the BBC became the BBCC,(you can guess the wording, the last two being cleaning company),

              Of course being ‘bad’ and also having an inquiring mind the new addition to our home, the telephone, got a good workout in conjunction with such adulterated acronyms,

              my favorite of course was to ring the local manse, brothers and sisters gathered round, putting on the best accent i could muster to indulge His Reverence of the BBCC,

              As a call once to the right Rev concerning the BBCC didn’t produce any reaction of great note, a series of calls at odd times, day and night, depending where at the time the parent was, certainly resulted in the desired results being achieved,

              The poor old Rev, if you think that was pretty ‘bad’, he was i think the Presbytarian one in the hood, He got off lightly from my machinations, not so the right Rev attached to the C of E, He was made to suffer on a weekly basis, His ability for forgiveness tested over and over and found wanting on a number of ocassions…

          • McFlock 5.1.1.1.2
            23 July 2014 at 3:25 pm

            not many people know that

            Mostly because it’s a bullshit backronym

  6. Rick Rowling 6
    23 July 2014 at 9:20 am

    So what’s up with Kim Dotcom joking about killing sex workers?

    Disgusting.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1
      23 July 2014 at 9:52 am

      Yeah, it was rubbish. Good on Laila Harre for slapping him down on that and making him pull his gameboy head in.

      • The Al1en 6.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 9:55 am

        So that’s Hone and DC in the mip alliance that don’t have a very good opinion of women.

        • bad12 6.1.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 10:01 am

          Alien, i am sure that Hone’s Mrs would have a far different view on that subject than the one you express…

          (PS, when i attend ‘the road show’ here in Wellington i will be sure to do a scan of the hall to make a quick assessment of the support vis a vis male/female numbers)…

          • The Al1en 6.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 10:04 am

            Forget scanning for the gender split, go and ask Hone why he said what he said on Backbenchers in the first place.
            As my mate Marty on here said at the time, shit comment and shit apology.

            • marty mars 6.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 10:43 am

              Yes allen I said that at the time – you appear to not want to move on – probably because of your dislike of both Hone and Kim – your comments used to be amusing now they come across as a broken record – lift your game mate.

              • The Al1en …
                23 July 2014 at 11:19 am

                “you appear to not want to move on”

                Come now Marty, first thing I’ve said about it since the issue came up. I didn’t even write anything when kdc was making sex worker killing jokes. That’s hardly not letting it go, by any standards.

                “your comments used to be amusing now they come across as a broken record – lift your game mate.”

                I haven’t posted much here for bit, but thanks for the critique, I’ll bear it in mind 😉

            • Pasupial 6.1.1.1.1.2
              23 July 2014 at 10:57 am

              T Allen

              The comment was:

              The country was facing more pressing matters such as “kids starving”, he said. Harawira added: “Let’s just keep it there, it’s allegedly, and so until such time that this sorts its self out, let’s get on with running the country in the best interests of all off the citizens.”

              The apology:

              “I have reviewed the tape and I accept that my comments were not helpful at all.
              “Sexual assault IS a big deal, and I applaud Tania Rose Billingsley for her brave and courageous appearance on television last night.”

              http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10252967/Harawira-U-turn-in-diplomat-sex-case

              Though the part of the comment that (perhaps deservedly) drew criticism was:

              calling the row over a sexual assault charge against a diplomat “bugger all.”… “I think all of the media, their heads should roll for making a big fuss about bugger all.”

              But considering that; he had no involvement with MFaT or the case itself, and at the time the alleged offender was in the process of being returned to NZ to face questioning, and Billingsley had not yet waived her privacy right; I consider that the question was inappropriately directed. If he’d been asked about the existence of rape culture, or the violence all too frequently meted out to woman (and yes; men) by the often drunk thugs of the country (who are disproportionately male), and said that issue was; “bugger all”, then I might be less incline to support the IMP as I do.

              • bad12 …
                23 July 2014 at 11:08 am

                Pasupial, thanks for that, i had given up on watching Backbencher’s, it was beginning to bore me, of course the week that i don’t watch it Hone is on and ‘flames’ the conversation,

                That puts the comment the ‘bugger all’ bit of which i had seen into context as well as the well thought through apology from Hone later…

              • greywarbler …
                23 July 2014 at 12:45 pm

                @Pasupial
                I hadn’t heard what Hone Harawira said, which I read commented on unfavourably.

                I guess that Hone was despairing at other issues constantly cropping up that detract from urgent attention and consideration to those serious structural ones we have of poverty, disease, anomie and sinking living standards. When you think we might be getting into low caste slum territory as in India it does make you anxious. And this without the explicit Indian caste system that has developed and embedded in the culture to isolate and deprive a group of people from humane treatment and respect.

                No wonder Harawira was dismissive. Except that individual people can’t get pushed aside in the major drive forward to change conditions for all. That just perpetuates in a small way the lack of humanity being protested.

                Charlie Brown voiced the situation:
                I love mankind … it’s people I can’t stand!!”
                ― Charles M. Schulz, The Complete Peanuts, Vol. 5: 1959-1960

            • bad12 6.1.1.1.1.3
              23 July 2014 at 11:17 am

              Alien, i personally have way more positive things to try and discuss with Hone as opposed to raking over the ashes of one inappropriate comment for which He has already issued an apology,

              Tell you what tho, feel free to turn up at all ‘the roadshow’ venues and demand of Hone whatever it is you are after,(of course my saying ‘all the roadshow venues’ is obviously tongue in cheek as i am sure that InternetMana supporters would make you aware of their feelings surrounding such an intrusion even if this required ‘sign language’,

              The positive i hope to take out of the Wellington leg of the InternetMana roadshow is the pulling together of the various thin strands of IntrnetMana support in the Wellington region with a view to furthering the aims of the party far past the September contest…

              • The Al1en …
                23 July 2014 at 11:44 am

                I’d never demand, but I have no problem with asking why he thought Ms Billingsley’s affair were “bugger all”. It’s a fair question of a party leader, there was enough information available to see it as anything but “bugger all”.
                I would also say to him at least he made an attempt at an apology, unlike our looking bored prime minister, who didn’t and won’t, so at least I think he’s better than John Key”, who I believe Hone coincidentally once photobombed, saying he didn’t respect him or something.

                If met with sigh language, as you allude, I would call that as saying more about those supporters than me.

          • Pasupial 6.1.1.1.2
            23 July 2014 at 11:11 am

            bad12

            Why not just look at the probable IMP MPs:

            1 Harawira
            2 Harre
            3 Sykes
            4 Minto
            5 Chris Yong
            6 Miriam Pierard

            Now it may be a bit overoptimistic of me to suggest that the IMP alliance will garner 6 seats, but that gender balance is as good as the Greens. I don’t suggest that Dotcom is without faults, but he is only; founder (and primary donor) of the IP, while he does have significant input into the party at this startup phase (though Kumar is CEO & Harre leader), he will not be able to dictate the actions of the MPs once elected. He can’t even get his cash back if we do ignore him, as it’s in a dedicated fund that would be distributed to other political parties who share similar ideals to those central to the IP (NZ independence, Internet expansion and privacy, environment etc…) if the party was to be disbanded.

            But yeah, I agree with CV that it was a rubbish comment from the gamer space where the way to deal with prostitutes is to kill and loot them (eg GTA); that’s the kind of policy announcement I’d expect from ACT! Fortunately; Kim Dotcom and the IMP alliance are different things.

            • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1.2.1
              23 July 2014 at 12:25 pm

              The inside joke was that Batman/Bruce Wayne would never actually do anything to a prostitute. Other than perhaps tip big.

      • Tracey 6.1.2
        23 July 2014 at 12:11 pm

        +1

  7. The Al1en 7
    23 July 2014 at 9:41 am

    I thought the Greens have had a couple of good policy releases in the past week, but still not seeing much in my community.
    We don’t have any Green billboards in Hamilton West that I’m aware of, and as the Greens are a party that represents most of the voters here more so than the others combined, even if they remain unaware they’re being represented, a bit of coordination wouldn’t go amiss.

    Divisive 1% parties will do nothing for the electorate here, and as most of their policy is culled from the Greens and Labour, a bit more of a concerted effort is needed to encourage a higher turnout than in 11′

    I’d suggest a Green tea bag mailed to homes with a Green party message ensuring everyone gets a share of the cup of tea deals going on. Party vote Green, electorate vote for the candidate most likely to beat the nats. Simple as.
    Certainly negates having to get criminal millionaires involved in NZ politics. Like the right has had them for years, and now the left have them too. 🙄

    Clean and green. What a message.

    • karol 7.1
      23 July 2014 at 10:54 am

      As I understand it, The Greens are trying to encourage a lot of volunteers from the flax roots to help mobilise their campaign. I get the impression they working towards more grassroots involvement. They are having some Saturday meetings for volunteers around Auckland.

      If you think there’s not being enough done in your area, I suggest you sign up, and then make some suggestions to your local party/co-ordinator.

      Sign up as a volunteer here.

      Get involved web page here.

      • The Al1en 7.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 11:20 am

        I’ll certainly request a billboard for the front fence as a minimum.

        • bad12 7.1.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 12:04 pm

          The latest Green Party policy Alien???, i have actually been trying not to comment on that,”unity of the left leading into the election and all that”,

          But,

          i got the form email from Metiria yesterday explaining how the latest is a child poverty busting one because research has shown(pity there was no www which linked to this research), that children who attend early learning from age 2 have better outcomes later in life,

          That was the gist of the message which had me laughing sadly, i cannot quite imagine the stressed Mum down the end of the street, four kids, reliant on a benefit, no car, falling about with glee at the prospect of getting 3 of the kids off to the local primary school AND getting the youngest into the pushchair at the same time for a trudge in the opposite direction to the local Kindy,

          The real beneficiaries of that particular policy i would suggest will be , as usual, the middle class who have the means to get their 2 year olds to a Kindy, much as it distresses me i am starting to form the same opinion of where the Green party is now ‘at’ as Phillip holds…

          • The Al1en 7.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 12:16 pm

            Different cultures Bad, but I’m familiar with the example.
            The mum should take the four of them to school as normal, or if lucky enough, let the kids go on the walking bus if the school has one like our nearest primary does, and make the extra effort to reach the kindy so when she finally gets home she’ll have three and a half to four hours time to herself at the same time her kids are getting educated and cared for for free.
            And if those kids, going by the uncited statistics are getting better outcomes later in life, then that should put a bit of a smile on her dial as it does mine.

            I wouldn’t know if it’s policy, but even as unintended consequence, an inch is worth a mile.

            • Tracey 7.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 12:26 pm

              the greens also prpose school community hubs which wld see primary and preschool, health and so forth all on one site.

              • The Al1en …
                23 July 2014 at 12:48 pm

                Good work. I know the children of Melville would benefit greatly from that. The community house is well run does good work, but underfunded.

                Playing fantasy politics, I’d be happier still if adult education and green tech job training/work experience schemes were available at those hubs, then before too long, anyone in the community would have all the help they needed to be part of the green revolution, as part of the workforce for the new green tech industry jobs that will be attracted here, or more ideally set up here by kiwi companies.

              • bad12 …
                23 July 2014 at 12:51 pm

                Absolutely right Tracey, the Green Party does propose exactly that, ”identify and treat the overt signs of ongoing poverty”, would that be a fair comment of the intention of such school hubs???,

                ”Then send the kids straight back into the overt poverty which is the root cause of the original maladies identified and treated at the school hubs”, which is in my opinion where the policy falls over for want of a better expression,

                Treating the diseases of poverty at a school ‘hub’ does exactly nothing to treat the root cause which is the poverty of the families from which these kids come, so, once treated what becomes of the kids,

                Back into poverty where in a month or 3 they are back at the school hub being treated for the diseases of poverty perhaps???…

            • bad12 7.1.1.1.1.2
              23 July 2014 at 12:42 pm

              Alien, you could get a business start grant from Winz, you would do well manufacturing ‘smoothies’, although i suggest you brand your product ‘soothies’,

              So, the magic wand so waved by the present policy being discussed will in 18–20 years have removed these children from poverty???,

              We could address here the fact that the stressed Mum down the street aint got the finances to afford school lunches nor the basics of wet weather gear for the kids or herself on that trudge to the Kindy, but as Metiria didn’t address those issues in Her recent email i assume we are supposed to just ignore these peripheral issues,

              Sure the Party has the ‘policy’ of raising benefit levels, but, as another peripheral issue shall we ask or not ask just how likely in % terms is this likely to occur, my thought 0%,

              My view is that until such time as child poverty is addressed either directly through raising the actual income of the parents, or, by removing from the parents certain costs which in effect raises their disposable incomes, nothing, and i mean NOTHING will change in terms of outcomes for those children…

              • The Al1en …
                23 July 2014 at 1:09 pm

                “So, the magic wand so waved by the present policy being discussed will in 18–20 years have removed these children from poverty???,”

                Well just by attending school and nursery, the kids would have had a nutritious free breakfast and lunch, so that’s an immediate plus for some of those kids, no need to wait 18 to 20 years. Then those well fed kids would be in a fit and proper state for learning, and as we know, those kids do better, so double whammy for them.
                Mum and/or dad or both, then have a chance to use those four hours free to recharge, maybe do polytech or uni, maybe work if they can find a part time job, which opens up wff, so they benefit financially which immediately lifts them out of poverty if they’re on benefits, like I am.

                Knock on effect for having those two year olds at playschool could be huge in the fight against poverty in our community. And it isn’t spin if it’s true, not that you’ve said nor implied any other way…. Though of course it is a bit, it is election year.

                • bad12 …
                  23 July 2014 at 1:40 pm

                  Ummm, ???? @ ”nutritious breakfast and lunch” haven’t seen that among Green party policy so far, have i missed something???,

                  There is a lot of IF’s in this the latest of your Soothies Alien, the neo-liberal paradigm within which the economy is structured SAYS that NO there will not be any more work in the economy than the present amount,

                  i see nothing in Green Party policy,(or for that matter any other parties policy), which suggests that we structure the Taskforce Green Program to offer all beneficiaries a chance to have enough hours of work so as to be able to avail themselves of the tax credit portion of Working for Families,

                  It is obvious that the private sector will not EVER supply the amount of work required, so, it would cost the Government purse a hell of a lot of coin to first provide the necessary hours of work and secondly come up with the coin to pay for the additional tax credits for those families with children,

                  it would cost that Government purse one hell of a lot less to simply re-arrange the stupidity of the tax credit portion of the Working for Families program so that beneficiary reliant families with children were given the full tax credit…

                  • The Al1en …
                    23 July 2014 at 1:49 pm

                    I was assuming that to have the kindy would have to be from a left government, and admittedly not knowing if it’s part of policy, I couldn’t see the greens opposing free food in schools, so take them as coming one another.

                    I’m not surprised you don’t see those as green policy, that’s me.
                    The extra jobs thing is from the fantasy politics thing, as stated, based on the notion if there is to be a green tech industry boost, the jobs have to come from somewhere. No reason it can’t (or shouldn’t be made to as part of the deal) come from our poor communities.

                • bad12 …
                  23 July 2014 at 1:57 pm

                  Another ummm ???? @ Mum and/or Dad maybe doing Polytech or Uni Alien, you may be at present in a bottom of the heap position, but, you appear to have no real grip upon the whole demographic which make up the bottom of the heap,

                  A large part of the bottom of the heap are in fact the 20% who yearly get to leave our education system as basically functional illiterates to suggest that they will be attending Uni or Polytech would suggest that you see everything through the lens of the middle class which you are temporarily excluded from,

                  In reality the Green Party policy differs from that of Labour in that the Greens are saying ‘education will set you free’ while Labour are saying ‘work will set you free’

                  Both of course in an ideal world where everyone was and could be educated to the same standard would be lofty ideals to uphold,

                  Given the current economic paradigm tho, should such worthy and lofty ideals ever be attained, what we would have is a large demographic of highly intelligent, educated people parked up reliant upon a benefit as their source of income…

                  • The Al1en …
                    23 July 2014 at 2:09 pm

                    Bottom of the heap and from a large, extended whanau of my own, from which one of my four brothers daughter, now mid twenties was the first in our family to attend uni, and myself later in life, retraining here in the 00’s.
                    I know the demographic, the struggles of the working class, I’m still living in it. I know how hard it can be from a practical and personal experience, just like most do. I know of middle class and I’m far from it. That should be obvious, but if it isn’t, there it is.

                    As for those two messages, combined they’re onto a winner. Work life balance it to 30 hours a week like suggested and they are win.
                    Doesn’t mean one size fits all, so if one didn’t want to take advantage, there should be a penalty free way to opt out of a good thing.

                  • The Al1en …
                    23 July 2014 at 2:34 pm

                    “Given the current economic paradigm tho, should such worthy and lofty ideals ever be attained, what we would have is a large demographic of highly intelligent, educated people parked up reliant upon a benefit as their source of income”

                    Replace benefit with ubi (as I have also seen suggested), then a large demographic of highly intelligent, educated people out of poverty with happy healthy children is what you get. It’s what revolution is made from.

                    • bad12 …
                      23 July 2014 at 4:06 pm

                      Aaah Alien, you are tripping off into naked idealism now, the discussion being about ‘election policy’ i would have to ask what Parties are directly campaigning on a UBI as part of the ticket,

                      What % of a chance is there that a UBI will be part of the Legislation of the next incoming Government of the left, going out on my little limb again i would have to suggest the chances are 0%,

                      The 20% who escape the education system yearly with barely the education to read or write???,

                      Here again you wave the magic wand of education will set them free simply ignoring that the statistic, the 20% year in year out, who leave the education system barely able to read or write after having been engaged, well presumably engaged, with that education system for many many years,

                      That statistic, simply says that you can’t, educate them that is, you either cannot educate that 20% which is the statistic, or, there is something really really seriously wrong with the education system that the political parties are all willfully ignoring which happily turns out 20% of school leavers annually with barely the skills of reading and writing…

                    • The Al1en …
                      23 July 2014 at 4:56 pm

                      I don’t deny the charge of waving a wand, after all, I did say it was fantasy politicks, but even if all the greens achieved was a nation of intelligent, well educated but reliant on the state, that’s not a bad start and a vast improvement of what we currently have or are likely to have under a third Key government.

                      No one to my knowledge is campaigning on a ubi, but a few here advocate for one. If we had that and a well educated populace, that’s a win win in the fight against poverty. But yes, that’s the fantasy bit kicking in.

                      As for educating I dispute your point. I accept the difficulties, but believe there are many ways to reach and educate. It doesn’t have to be black boards and eyes front.

                    • bad12 …
                      23 July 2014 at 5:26 pm

                      Alien, you dispute my point about education, does such a disputing of this point include disputing the 20% figure i put forward,(just asking so as to know if i need to dig those figures out of the ether as i do not have them at hand),

                      However, as far as primary/secondary education goes that is all we do have, by the vast majority education is eyes front and blackboards,

                      Which simply brings us again full circle to election policy and i have yet to see any political party put forward a policy which directly targets that 20% who for whatever reason are turned out of the system barely able to read and write,

                      Ok, i have to give a nod in the direction of Labour, while i doubt the smaller class sizes will be any sort of magic bullet, its a small movement of a toenail in the right direction…

              • Shut up Gosman …
                23 July 2014 at 1:24 pm

                If you refuse to stop thinking sensibly, you’ll never be able to follow politics without inducing some kind of stroke. Though I suspect you’ll be beaten to death by your friends before that.

                • bad12 …
                  24 July 2014 at 3:02 pm

                  Pfft, another one with a violence fantasy running through ‘its’ psyche, i am tempted to respond but being mindful of a certain exchange the other night wont…

  8. Ffloyd 8
    23 July 2014 at 10:09 am

    Very briefly looked at Armstrong’s latest offering at the altar of #teamkey. As per usual. Same old doddery rhetoric, and that was just the first paragraph Couldn’t stomach much more.. But imbedded in his column is the ‘little blue bus’ with the gurning ugly mug of the little man himself. Is it my imagination or has his head got bigger. And it looks like he polishes it. Or maybe that’s Bronagh’s job.
    I am getting bloody tired of all these screaming LARGE headlines abusing Cunliffe for trying to address all the merde that they INCESSANTLY print about him without once acknowledging that it is THEM presenting all the bad imagery that when you look beyond the headlines is usually a ‘summat or nowt’ situation, but the general population gets sucked in because of the large print headlines which is all they usually read. I know this because that is what I used to do.
    Anyway. Cunliffe, DO NOT apologise for anything else that you done that you truly believe to be right, and do not apologise for anything you might wear, or eat, or drink or think or..or..or ad infinitum.
    We need Labour to get back in.

  9. greywarbler 9
    23 July 2014 at 10:12 am

    Here is a link to a really good comic, exciting, frightening, humorous, well drawn, provided by Gareth. http://economixcomix.com/home/tpp/

    Gareth put this up to illustrate literally, what our economic system (dysfucktional) is doing to us, and why TPPA is needed to totally screw us up. The piece of no resistance sorta!
    http://thestandard.org.nz/exchange-rate-hikes-killing-nz-industry-and-jobs/#comment-853300

    edited

    • adam 9.1
      23 July 2014 at 8:15 pm

      Great comic greywarbler, very good for people who have a limited understanding of international trade and economics. And a great wee explanation why the ttp is hell for working people

      • greywarbler 9.1.1
        24 July 2014 at 9:21 am

        @adam
        Agree. It’s palatable and understandable too for people who really want to put it in the round to it and too hard basket. Just another thing overlayered the list of all the other things to worry about. And I can’t resist passing on that other type of comic delivery – in music. Got to laugh sometimes. Often I’m so Worried!

  10. Puckish rogue 10
    23 July 2014 at 10:15 am

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10296677/Cunliffe-I-m-going-to-let-people-in

    As a right-wing voter take these comments however you like but it seems to me Cunliffe is getting extemely poor advice

    He fishes, shoots, plays rugby and has strong support from a successful wife all ingredients that should equal an easy (as easy as you can get in this game) yet its not happening

    I think its his media people and advisors letting him down

    • freedom 10.1
      23 July 2014 at 10:37 am

      Yeah, it’s all the fault of Cunliffe’s people!
      The MSM have no say in how they themselves present the stories 🙄

    • karol 10.2
      23 July 2014 at 10:59 am

      It’s quite a good piece by Andrea Vance – until last section. And the opening section focuses on the negatives – some good bits in the middle.

      She says this:

      By polling day, he will have been Labour’s leader for just over a year. His rise to the top saw his reputation take a beating. Colleagues painted him as untrustworthy, destabilising the tenure of predecessors Phil Goff and David Shearer as he clawed his way into the top job.

      Another common narrative – driven largely by National opponents – is that he is “tricky” or fake.

      Over a breakfast of eggs, salmon and coffee at Legends cafe, old mates Tony Morton, Ivon Hurst and Steven say this just isn’t so. All but Cunliffe have stayed locally – and they now see more of their old friend on television than in the flesh. ”Character just doesn’t change. When I see him on TV, he is exactly the same,” Steven says.

      • Mainlander 10.2.1
        23 July 2014 at 11:42 am

        Rick pricks and their fancy breaky at Legends eh-Joking but seriously that will now probably be spun as DC’s m8’s confirm he has always been they way he is (or as the msm portray him) or Cunliffes friends confirm he has always been an apologist for wearing red scarves taking holidays and being a man, either way im sure it wont be ralayed as “his friends think hes the same good bloke he used to be”

    • Mainlander 10.3
      23 July 2014 at 11:19 am

      DC seemed to be doing ok until McCarten joined the team, thinking back, to me thats about the time things started going pear shaped, personally i think he should ditch the so-called advisors and go it alone, its like they have put him through some sort of bad acting class

      • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1
        23 July 2014 at 12:30 pm

        He couldn’t do any worse but thinking back someone messed up his CV, didn’t give him the information about the baby bonus, didn’t talk him out of attacking John Keys house, didn’t check up on Liu

        these are all things that his people should be doing but arn’t…so why arn’t they?

        • One Anonymous Bloke 10.3.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 12:39 pm

          Way to prove Freedom’s point.

          Key attacks the Sallies, media reports Cunliffe’s rightly contemptuous response out-of-context. Right wing parrots pretend ad nauseam makes it true.

          Don’t worry, the solution is to privatise Hansard.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.3.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 12:42 pm

            Not really, all the stuff ups are because someone on Cunliffes team dropped the ball, maybe he does need to get rid of his advisors and do what his gut tells him?

            I mean it can’t be any worse then railing against trusts and having one yourself

            • One Anonymous Bloke 10.3.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 12:49 pm

              Yes, really, the full exchange is in Hansard, and was distorted by media framing, and since you’ve got nothing to rebut that point, you’re flailing around introducing red herrings as fast as you can.

              Your natural gutter instincts will be to destroy Hansard by privatising it to make it more efficient and remove left wing bias, otherwise known as reality.

    • Clemgeopin 10.4
      23 July 2014 at 12:57 pm

      From the article :

      ”I have a fantastic caucus. I think that as the leader of the party my duty is to be the leader for the whole party. So, for me, it’s not about friends and not friends, it’s about doing the best I can to bring the best out of each and every colleagues. I have personal friends and family of my own and those relationships sustain me.”

      The criticism and pressure does take a toll. ”It’s a test of character because you do sometimes ask yourself are the critics right? And there are nights when you ask yourself all of those hard questions.

      ”But at the end of the day you fall back on why. And I know that the only reason that makes it worthwhile is service.”

      Foe me personally these two points are very clear:

      [1] I trust Cunliffe any day over Key.
      [2] The Labour party is any day far better for a broad proportion of the people and the good of this country than the pro wealthy National can ever be.

      • Puckish Rogue 10.4.1
        23 July 2014 at 1:05 pm

        Unfortunately for you (but fortunately for the rest of us) the rest of NZ appears to disagree with you

        • Colonial Viper 10.4.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 1:10 pm

          Sorry mate no one appointed you spokesperson of Kiwi Land.

        • Clemgeopin 10.4.1.2
          23 July 2014 at 1:15 pm

          We will see how the public will vote on Sept 20.
          My prediction is on a Labour led progressive government.

          • Puckish Rogue 10.4.1.2.1
            23 July 2014 at 1:17 pm

            Mines a National leg positive government

            • fender 10.4.1.2.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 1:25 pm

              “Mines a National leg….”

              Yes ok, can you stop with your leg humping fantasies already..

              • Puckish Rogue …
                23 July 2014 at 2:41 pm

                Fat fingers syndrome strike again

              • Murray Olsen …
                24 July 2014 at 2:55 am

                Dogs have to have that trained out of them.

                Calling the NAct government positive is delusional. They attack Cunliffe, they attack beneficiaries, they attack dolphins, they attack the homeless…Overall I’d say they’re the worst government we’ve ever seen.

  11. Kiwiri 11
    23 July 2014 at 10:17 am

    Tuwhera Mike!

    I like the Te Reo touch!

    Keep up the good work.

    Btw, what would ‘The Standard’ be in Te Reo?

    • Rosie 11.1
      23 July 2014 at 11:38 am

      +1 I like it too Kiwiri.

      I was wondering what the microphone part of Open Mike would translate to in Te Reo, a microphone being a device that amplifies the voice. Is there a comparison in Te Reo I wonder?

    • Te Reo Putake 11.2
      23 July 2014 at 11:45 am

      te paerewa, I think, Kiwiri. Though that is a literal translation and doesn’t quite fit the meaning of the standard as a flag for labour to rally around.

      And my suggestion, Rosie, would be two noses in a hongi, symbolising the exchange of air (communication).

  12. phillip ure 12
    23 July 2014 at 11:01 am

    a longform dotcom interview..(41 mins..)

    ..it is on newstalkzb and he calls them out as ‘the fox news of nz radio’…

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/national/news/video.cfm?c_id=1503075&gal_cid=1503075&gallery_id=144347

    • Tiger Mountain 12.1
      23 July 2014 at 11:14 am

      Well worth a watch for those that have not experienced Kim Dotcom talking at length, which would be most people. Kim ‘asks ze qvestions’ right back at the twin interviewers.

      Steam bursts and anguished howls emanated all over good’ol boy Veitchieland during this one.

      • bad12 12.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 1:27 pm

        Lolz @ ”asks ze questions”, i am waiting in anticipation the day that DotCom does a full on ”Sergeant Shultz” lampoon tin ‘lid’ included…

    • ianmac 12.2
      23 July 2014 at 12:51 pm

      Kim Dotcom’s interview was wow! I thought I would watch the first few minutes and felt compelled to watch to the end of 41 minutes, because he was authentic and clear and credible. You know how when listening to Mr Key your antenna is twitching all the time watching out for spin and deception? Not so for Kim. He is credible in dismissing the “criminal” label and the “all about me” label put up by the Right Wing. No wonder they are scared of him.

      My loyalty to Labour or Green stands, but I can sure see how not only the young but an awful lot of open minded others will be attracted. 5%+ ? I reckon so.

      • Tiger Mountain 12.2.1
        23 July 2014 at 2:07 pm

        Internet Mana may just do it ianmac. The combination of new voters, experienced activists and a few left swayers is a niche but it may just be enough. It is not all about Dotcom; Hone, Sykes and Minto will carry on regardless after the election. This opportunity is understandably being relished by them and Laila Harré.

        Hone had to ration signage severely it was that tight last election. This time there is a budget.
        Anette has been campaigning hard too. Dotcom has now seen the Far North first hand and been in Māori protocol meeting situations, both of which a lot of Pākehā avoid like the proverbial. He has definitely learnt something out of all this going on the interview.

        John Mintos dad died yesterday too according to John on fb, at 97!

        • idlegus 12.2.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 2:25 pm

          yeah that was good, what an engaging speaker. i liked how he reframed the questions, when asked ‘what surprised you about greenwald?’ (what a stupid question!!!!) & he just answered right back ‘surprised? ill tell you what i liked about greenwald…’, i think (dare i say it) cunliffe can learn a lot from how kdc kicks right wing media arse, especially when kdc happily calls them out for their bias & they can’t really reply other than to say ‘we are the most popular radio station in nz’ which reminds me of what a few right wing posters say here on the standard. & yep, kdc even says ‘i’m a terrible politician, i say the most awful things’…

          • ianmac 12.2.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 4:04 pm

            Exactly idlegus. Wasn’t it refreshing to listen to a fluent speaker?
            I figure that Helen Clark was so good because her personal philosophy was so well grounded that she could respond to any question in a flash.
            I had the same feeling that Kim Dotcom was sure of his philosophy and could respond so well.
            John Key is fuzzy and calculating a response to suit his audience and if that doesn’t go down well he jokes his way to distract.

        • Kiwiri 12.2.1.2
          25 July 2014 at 12:19 pm

          John Mintos dad died yesterday too according to John on fb, at 97!

          My condolences to John Minto.

  13. phillip ure 13
    23 July 2014 at 11:17 am

    shit..!..irma thomas on nat-rad doing ‘time is on my side’..way back when..

    ..and totally blowing out of the water the beery/bleary version later released by the rolling stones..

    ..the stones just copied thomas’ take..and badly..

    andrew loog oldham was clearly a plagiarist..

    • swordfish 13.1
      23 July 2014 at 12:23 pm

      well…yeah, phil…but isn’t it always the way ?..

      ..elvis…nicking black R&B…and…gospel/soul…

      ..and sugar-coating it..

      ..the stones not even coming close…

      ..to the great bluesman…howlin wolf…

      …in their early/mid 60s blues phase…

      …with jagger doing a ludicrous impression…

      …of a black American man…

      …sounding thin and reedy by comparison…

  14. freedom 14
    23 July 2014 at 11:20 am

    Why do things need to change ?
    Here is an excellent image that spells it out.
    http://i.imgur.com/qmfm9CD.jpg?1

  15. Rosie 15
    23 July 2014 at 11:47 am

    Helix Personas. I first heard this term used in conjunction with the “return of the worm” and googled Roy Morgan to find out more about but they only had a very vague inadequate over corporatised definition. But now this:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1407/S00811/helix-personas-the-future-of-customer-profiling-in-nz.htm

    This sounds very creepy and invasive to me. Is there nothing left of our lives that is private?

    I sometimes wonder if an old workmate of mine who was retiring had the right idea to sell everything and take up travelling around NZ in a caravan, off the radar so to speak. No address and no bills apart from pre pay cell phone and internet. Voting via a special vote. Away from prying eyes and ears that are greedy for data on your life.

  16. Rosie 16
    23 July 2014 at 12:45 pm

    An update on this sign:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sideswipe/news/article.cfm?c_id=702&objectid=11292803

    (Thanks for the image karol)

    I’ve been in touch with the manager at ITM Tawa via email about their sign. The aim was to educate them on the context of Cunliffe’s talk and highlight the seriousness of domestic violence.

    We had an interesting and amicable dialogue. I was heartened that the manager was willing to be open and engage. I won’t put any of the email content up here as there were personal stories of rape on both sides of the discussion.

    Just to let those of you who read the discussion about it on Open Mike on Saturday, that the sign was removed today.

    • Tiger Mountain 16.1
      23 July 2014 at 2:15 pm

      Good on you Rosie, I enjoy reports like yours here as it shows that at least some people on political blogs are about action as well as words.

      • Rosie 16.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 4:17 pm

        Lols, ta Tiger Mountain. I’m way more gobby off site than I am on site. I’m a right little busy body and if I feel that something is wrong I see what I can do about it.

  17. Bearded Git 17
    23 July 2014 at 12:56 pm

    This is copied from Imperator Fish today:

    If David Cunliffe decided one day to redecorate his kitchen, they would call it a décor flip-flop.
    If David Cunliffe chose tea yesterday and coffee today, he would be accused of inconsistency.
    If John Key announced a major policy u-turn tomorrow, the New Zealand Herald would laud his pragmatic and decisive leadership.
    If David Cunliffe works 18 hour days, then takes a three day break to be with his family, he is lazy and unfocused.
    If David Cunliffe worked 18 hour days and never took a break, they would say he works too hard and needs to learn to relax.
    If John Key goes on holiday for eleven days, nobody minds.
    If David Cunliffe fails to memorise every standard form letter he ever writes, he is either incompetent or corrupt, and John Armstrong will say he should resign.
    If a senior National Party minister’s incompetence and ineptitude embarrasses his leader and the entire nation and allows a suspected sex offender to flee the country, John Armstrong will say it’s not a resignation offence.
    If David Cunliffe cannot instantly state to the last cent the exact cost of a Labour Party policy when asked, he is indecisive, dithering and inept.
    If John Key can’t be bothered to find out how much taxpayer money his own disgraced MP spent, it’s because he’s focused on the issues that matter.
    If David Cunliffe apologises for something he shouldn’t really have to apologise for, it’s weakness.
    If John Key refuses to apologise for something he should apologise for, it’s strength.
    If David Cunliffe decided one day not to wear his red scarf to work, some person claiming to be a party insider would probably say he’d been pressured by his caucus to remove it.
    If a Labour MP says anything remotely unusual or off-topic, it undermines David Cunliffe’s leadership and brings Labour to the point of crisis.
    If a National MP uses taxpayer money to buy herself nice things, it’s forgotten the next day.

    • Rosie 17.1
      23 July 2014 at 1:23 pm

      +1 Ain’t that the truth. A prefect summary of the blatant media bias and spin supported by the rabid comments sections in such media, in our country.

      Let’s not forget the comparison of the treatment of Cunliffe during this campaign to the embarrassing grovelling and dribbling at Key’s feet during the’ 08 and ’11 campaigns.

    • ianmac 17.2
      23 July 2014 at 4:14 pm

      A breath of sanity BG and now what do we do about it.

      I just struggled through a Bryce Edwards column where as usual he highlights all the negative blogs and columns that he can find. And all those, as usual fill the top 9 tenths of his column.
      Then maybe right at the end, a little bit of brighter news. Balanced writing? Hardly.

      • Bearded Git 17.2.1
        23 July 2014 at 4:50 pm

        ianmac-I just read that Bryce Edwards crap. Not a hint of balance (I don’t count quoting Pagani as balance). Not a hint of policy, except to criticise how Labour launches policy.

        It is as I said above-the Herald has an agenda to pound Labour with criticism with at least 3 articles each day. Edwards seems only able to follow the right-wing MSM herd and not have a single independent thought-he will be a worthy successor to John Armstrong.

        Solution? I think Cunliffe’s media advisers should get him on Campbell Live to set out policies and talk about his background. Then he should go on Wallace Chapman’s Sunday programme to set out policies and talk about his background.

        Maybe Labour should run a couple of party political broadcasts NOW with Cunliffe fronting and talking policy (assuming this allowed under the rules).

        At least with Campbell/Chapman he will get something of a fair hearing and early PPB’s would seize the initiative.

        Some brainstorming from contributors to TS would help here. But Cunliffe needs to come out fighting; show them what he is made of. Seize the initiative from the MSM.

  18. Puckish Rogue 18
    23 July 2014 at 3:03 pm

    and in the battle of the headline National wins again

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11297568

    • McFlock 18.1
      23 July 2014 at 3:13 pm

      wow, call me surprised.
      Not so much a “battle” as a game where the referee is the blue side’s best player.

      • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 3:49 pm

        Best game to play is one where you’ve already won

        • McFlock 18.1.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 3:59 pm

          Was that an admission that the media has a gross tory bias?

          The other point is that the best game to play is the one where the outcome is unknown and you have to use your brain in order to achieve the objective.

          I’ve never seen the point to games that you’ve won before starting. There’s no achievement or victory in it. It’s just a waste of time.

          • Puckish Rogue 18.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 4:04 pm

            See you in 2017 then if thats the attitude of the left

            • McFlock 18.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 4:22 pm

              Helping the 260,000 kids in poverty in NZ isn’t a game, though.

              I brought up games because “battles” don’t normally have referees, biased or otherwise.

              But then it’s not even a battle, because nobody will be shot – even if you do want to be all butch with macho language.

              The fact is that it’s the old story of people with money and power wanting to exploit the poor, to the point of death if needs be. In a democracy, the moneyed class uses the media to spread propaganda for its preferred candidates. Been like that for hundreds of years.

              So your wanking about National winning the “battle of the headline” is simply stating that the moneyed class has supported National.
              I’m shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here…

      • idlegus 18.1.2
        24 July 2014 at 5:46 am

        ha! yes, thats why mike hoskings will be hosting the tvnz political debates, john key will be needing all the help he can get.

  19. Hami Shearlie 19
    23 July 2014 at 4:03 pm

    Just heard Stephen Joyce on the General Debate, as usual taking pot shots at David Cunliffe and laughing at him for apologising etc. Strange thing is, the Nats hardly mention Labour’s Policies. If they are staying away from that subject it must surely be that they know the policies are sound!! I think still harping on over David Cunliffe’s speech to the Women’s Refuge, is wayyy overegging the pudding, and I think it’s going to backfire – the general public will get very tired of hearing the same old one-liners! Once you’ve heard a joke once, it sure gets old fast!! And no-one likes a person who constantly laughs at their own jokes. I would think that the subject of the dodgy Claudette Hauiti was far more relevant today, only there for a few months and two major dodgy incidents, and suddenly she’s disappearing Stage Right and lying low, with the media not investigating any further – maybe they would if she wore a blue scarf two days running??. And to think she will be getting full pay for another FIVE MONTHS!!!

    • ianmac 19.1
      23 July 2014 at 4:18 pm

      Winston raised Hauiti in the General debate. Funny that Key doesn’t know and won’t ask just how much money was involved and how come Hauiti doesn’t resign now as a list MP and not collect her pay. That makes 17 Nat MPs gone by lunchtime!

    • Gosman 19.2
      23 July 2014 at 5:00 pm

      I think you will find they are going after the weakest link like a predator targets the weakest members of a group of prey. That doesn’t mean the predator fears the prey just that it is easiest to take down something already on the way out.

  20. Clemgeopin 20
    23 July 2014 at 5:32 pm

    Interesting info re education in today’s question time:

    Chris Hipkins : What confidence can parents have that national standards data represents an accurate picture of student achievement when the Ministry of Education is advising schools in writing to arbitrarily adjust their results from below standard to above standard in order to make their schools data add up?
    Hon HEKIA PARATA : That is absolute rubbish. That is not what is happening. What is happening is that the Ministry of Education is checking totals with schools, is checking whether the data would disclose privacy issues, and is reporting exactly what schools are telling it with those results.
    Chris Hipkins : I seek leave to table an email from the Ministry of Education to Valley School in Pukekohe, advising it to manipulate its data. It is dated 9 May. I have removed the name of the official who sent it.
    Mr SPEAKER : Leave is sought to table that particular email. Is there any objection? There is none. It can be tabled.
    • Document, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.

    [Continued]
    Chris Hipkins : Why should parents have confidence in the national standards data when the principal involved has stated “What they are suggesting I do is in fact manipulate my data to make it fit. In this case it would make my data look better, as I would now have no Asian students in the ‘below’ category and three more Asian students in the ‘above’ category.”, and that principal further went on to say “I feel sorry for all parents and communities who look at the 2013 national standards data and make assumptions about school performance based on manipulated data, and I am appalled at the thought that schools will be judged and ranked based on such data.”?
    Hon HEKIA PARATA : The answer to the member’s question is in the very quote he read out. He is talking about four Asian students. In a school they would be identifiable if those numbers were used.
    Chris Hipkins : Does it paint an accurate picture of a school’s student achievement if the Ministry of Education is advising schools to adjust the results of students that the school has ranked as being below the standard to be above the standard?
    Hon HEKIA PARATA : It seems that the member is unable to process the answers I have been giving him. There is—
    Hon Members : Ha, ha!
    Hon HEKIA PARATA : Yes, I agree. I agree that it is extremely funny. The conflict here is the balance of managing the privacy of students where the numbers are so low in a school that the students would be recognised. The member’s own evidence was that we were talking—
    Chris Hipkins : Make the numbers up.
    Hon HEKIA PARATA : Perhaps the member would like to listen. We were talking about four students—four students of a particular ethnicity being disclosed. That is not manipulation. That is in accordance with the 1993 Privacy Act.
    Chris Hipkins : How does it accurately represent student achievement at a school when a school is being advised by the Ministry of Education to change data so that students whom the school has assessed as being below the standard are now reflected in the school’s data as being above the standard?
    Hon HEKIA PARATA : I absolutely reject the assertion that the ministry is adjusting its reporting. The ministry is certainly working in terms of protecting privacy. The information that is provided by schools is what is reported. Therefore parents, the public, and everyone can look at that information, and it will be available to them. Actually, it provides a systematic report to parents about what is happening, unlike Labour, which is promising to replace—
    Mr SPEAKER : Order! [Interruption] Order! That answer is now sufficient.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1407/S00441.htm

  21. TeWhareWhero 21
    23 July 2014 at 6:43 pm

    “Some journalists have asked: “Who is giving John Key all this good advice?” But they have merely been pointed to the crew in his parliamentary office. Asked last year if he was getting media training, Key replied: “No. Should I be? I guess there’s part of me that says I’ve got my own natural personality and it’s served me well over the last 45 years. I’m not convinced I should try and make myself into something that I’m not.”
    But Key has not been disclosing an important secret about his leadership: that each step of his campaign to become prime minister has been overseen and directed by the same professional manipulators used (and also kept secret) by his predecessor, Don Brash. They are the Australian political tacticians, Crosby/Textor. Their role advising Key is known to National Party staff, including some who are uneasy about Crosby/Textor’s involvement, but has been kept secret from the public.”

    Note how an outright lie from Key is described as him ‘not disclosing an important secret”…….

    Do read this article – it is incredibly revealing.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/510500/Nats-secret-advisers-accused-of-dirty-tricks-in-Aussie

    • Puddleglum 21.1
      23 July 2014 at 6:58 pm

      Thanks TeWhareWhero. Very interesting and good to be reminded how planned and ‘bought’ Key’s career has been.

      Here’s a particularly interesting quote:

      “The report’s “strategic opportunities” section concluded that the research revealed “an emerging perception that Helen Clark is too busy with minorities' andother people’ to worry about the concerns and the pressures on `working families’.” They developed a “mantra” about an arrogant and out-of-touch prime minister. “It must be stressed that this sentiment is embryonic and must be consistently demonstrated and leveraged if it is to be effective,” Textor wrote. “These perceptions will not exist and mature on their own.”“

      • Draco T Bastard 21.1.1
        23 July 2014 at 7:04 pm

        “These perceptions will not exist and mature on their own.”

        Back when I was young that was called lying.

        • TeWhareWhero 21.1.1.1
          23 July 2014 at 7:10 pm

          It’s still called lying by people of conscience – the unethical call it ‘spin’.

          • Anne 21.1.1.1.1
            23 July 2014 at 7:13 pm

            – the unethical call it ‘spin’.

            Think Matthew Hooton.

            • Ben Adam 21.1.1.1.1.1
              23 July 2014 at 7:57 pm

              ..And think English, Joyce, Parata, Collins, JamieLee, Tolley, McCully, Bennet, Bridges, Boag, Slater and Key…..Different shades of dirty.

      • TeWhareWhero 21.1.2
        23 July 2014 at 7:07 pm

        As apposite today as it was in 2008.

      • Clemgeopin 21.1.3
        23 July 2014 at 8:28 pm

        Another interesting bit :

        “The second strand of the London mayoralty strategy was relentlessly attacking Livingstone’s [Insert Helen, Goff, Shearer, Cunliffe’s] reputation. He [Insert Labour] had introduced some innovative and popular policies, so they concentrated on personal attacks. News stories appeared (never directly from Johnson) claiming Livingstone had three “secret children” [Insert all the silly planted/exaggerated scandals against Cunliffe] and that he’d hired a Muslim extremist in his office [Insert appropriate parallels]. The major newspapers did not run such stories but giveaway tabloids[insert W.Oil and sadly MSM and TV and Blogs in NZ !] did.”

        We have a huge gutter media and government here!
        Welcome to the land of the long while clouds and evil dark government and nasty biased unfair political media lies!

        Kick the dirty buggers masquerading as a ‘Government’!

    • karol 21.2
      23 July 2014 at 7:38 pm

      Asked last year if he was getting media training, Key replied: “No. Should I be? I guess there’s part of me that says I’ve got my own natural personality and it’s served me well over the last 45 years. I’m not convinced I should try and make myself into something that I’m not.”

      This is the guy that was kept well away from doing very many interviews for the first year or so of his Nat leadership. he’s the guy who turned down doing the tougher interviews on RNZ endlessly, while doing the soft fluff radio and TV appearances.

      May not exactly have been media training, but it sure as hell has involved a lot of media management.

    • Clemgeopin 21.3
      23 July 2014 at 7:48 pm

      From the article :
      ” Their reputation for dirty tactics includes Textor being caught conducting `push polling’ against Labor candidate Sue Robinson in a 1995 Canberra by-election. Australia’s Radio National obtained a tape of a telephone pollster asking a householder if they’d be more or less likely to vote for Robinson if they knew she had publicly supported abortion up to the ninth month of pregnancy. Following a lawsuit, Textor had to apologise to Robinson in writing and pay her $A80,000 (she’d said nothing of the kind). But she had lost the election.

      Working for the Conservative Party in the 2005 British elections, Crosby/Textor used attacks on gypsies and immigrants under the sly campaign slogan “Are you thinking what we’re thinking?” They tightly controlled the public image of Conservative candidate Boris Johnson to help him win the London mayoralty last month. The previous mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, complained that Crosby/Textor had orchestrated a stream of negative rumour and innuendo against him in tabloid newspapers. “You clearly don’t employ Lynton Crosby if you want a clean and uplifting campaign,” he said.

      Oh, dear! What a set of nasty bastards infused with such an evil corrupted conscience!

  22. feijoa 22
    23 July 2014 at 6:56 pm

    Wow
    Hekia is mind boggling..
    She says the MINISTRY isn’t manipulating their data – er – well, no ,, they’re asking the SCHOOL to manipulate the data
    Wow
    This is an absolute disgrace

    • freedom 22.1
      23 July 2014 at 8:06 pm

      I saw Stuff had posted an article earlier and made a mental note to go read it later
      later duly arrived
      but it has vanished !

      Do you have a link to it feijoa?

  23. Clemgeopin 23
    23 July 2014 at 8:39 pm

    Hi Karol, Can only see Hekia’s spin and BS, but not Labour’s press release.

  24. Clemgeopin 24
    23 July 2014 at 9:20 pm

    Tonight on Prime TV:

    Back Benches – 23 Jul 14, 10:45PM

    Google CEO Larry Page proposed a four-day work week to increase productivity, should NZ to get on board? Plus, tonight’s MPs debate if water fluoridation should become a government decision. PGR

    P.S :
    Such a late slot for this programme! Just shows how little interest people have in political issues. People seem to take democracy/poltics-some what like oxygen, Di hydrogen Oxide and mom- for granted!

  25. ianmac 25
    23 July 2014 at 9:56 pm

    Oops for Winston I think. Today in General Debate Winston used most of his time to accuse the Christchurch man who has been challenging EQC on behalf of ruined house owners. He accused him of fraud, non GST returns, fraudulent import of Asian workers complete with emails and notes. Very emphatic and assertive

    It appears that the man Winston accused took his accusers (Headhunters Gang) to court as they had apparently been trying to extort big money from the man. Now before the Court.
    Remember when Winston wrongly delared a very very expensive estate in Hawke Bay had been sold to a Chinese investor. Proved to be wrong.

    Possible that Winston has been suckered by someone in the dirty tricks brigade. Credibility challenge for Winston? (I thought that some of the NZF MPs looked a bit surprised/uncertain?

    • Clemgeopin 25.1
      23 July 2014 at 10:39 pm

      I was perturbed that for a seasoned polly, Winston did not bother to call the man he accused first! Pretty shoddy !

  26. freedom 26
    23 July 2014 at 10:52 pm

    Meet John Key and his All Blacks. Cover image for this week’s Rugby News apparently.
    https://www.facebook.com/pmjohnkey/photos/a.10150162547855429.346317.12635800428/10152606072995429/?type=1&fref=nf

    Here is the image alone for those not wanting to read the comments
    https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t31.0-8/p600x600/10541396_10152606072995429_4979096729614657622_o.jpg

    Gotta be said, the lighting does not look like they were all photographed together.
    There are some comments that Rugby News have confirmed it as real, but I cannot find any reference to it on their site at this time. Odd that the magazine would release a cover image to a personal political page before publication.

    Does this make the All Blacks third party promoters of the PM?
    Wonder if the Electoral commission will be asked for comment on this? The TeamKey hashtag is in the PM’s comment under the photo, thus directly linking the image to the campaign.

    John Key

    Richie is looking a little bemused, but it’s all in the spirit of backing the boys. Catch Rugby News this week. #teamkey, I wish.

  27. North 27
    23 July 2014 at 11:15 pm

    Laila Harre on TV3 tonight from the PartyParty on K Road……sat the garrulous fool Henry square on his arse. Cheap naggy comments after Laila whirled away served only to underline it. Excellent !

The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.