We have an obligation to act on Manus Island

Written By: - Date published: 6:20 am, November 2nd, 2017 - 229 comments
Categories: australian politics, jacinda ardern - Tags: , ,

While I wouldn’t go so far as suggesting gunboat diplomacy as a first resort, we have to do something about the situation on Manus Island. Australia has illegally kept these refugees in Papua New Guinea to avoid processing them, the local government is trying to compromise between sucking up to Australia and their own citizens being aggressively opposed to the refugees’ presence. The detainees fear the proposed new solution of resettlement into open communities in PNG will leave them vulnerable to theft or violence from the locals, (not without evidence) so under the circumstances it’s no surprise that they’re refusing to leave the detention centre even though Australia is threatening to starve them out.

If you haven’t been following this situation, Idiot/Savant at No Right Turn has been dutifully cataloguing the events.

We should make a better offer to take them as refugees and consider whether there’s a solution where we assure Malcolm Turnball that these people have no further intention to move to Australia. Contrary to his prior comments, the only “marketing opportunity” here is for New Zealand to once again show refugees in the region that if they want to come to a Pacific democracy, we’re the one to pick, and they shouldn’t even bother considering Australia.

Honestly, it also takes a fair amount of… shall we say boldness, to claim that a group of people who have been denied their human rights and potentially tortured under Australian custody would use the opportunity of New Zealand citizenship as a backdoor into Australia. Why would they want to go back to a country that imprisoned them for daring to be refugees? Australia has already proven it’s the wrong destination for refugees travelling by boat.

This situation will be the first real test of Ardern’s claim that she can stand up to Australia and get better outcomes than the National government did, and is a good way to show the rest of the world that despite her coalition with New Zealand First, Ardern doesn’t intend to be “like Trump on immigration.” These people are in crisis and need urgent help, and all John Key and Bill English would do is keep our long-standing offer to Australia “on the table,” a polite way of saying they couldn’t think of anything better to do than to keep being told no by Australia. Ardern should try taking the offer to Papua New Guinea, or seeing what she can do to address Australia’s concerns, and maybe she should even consider what her options are with the UN or resorting to gunboat diplomacy if everything else does fail, but the one thing she can’t do is nothing.

If you’d like to stress the importance of this to the Minister of Immigration and the Prime Minister, there is a petition up at Action Station.

229 comments on “We have an obligation to act on Manus Island”

  1. Carolyn_nth 1

    On October 25 RNZ reported:

    Incoming prime minister Jacinda Ardern says New Zealand’s offer to take refugees from Australia’s offshore detention centres remains on the table.


    Ms Ardern said her government was committed to the offer to take 150 refugees from offshore detention, but she said she needed to study the proposal.

    “I want to look at the detail of the offer that was made and the obligations that we’ve set out that we would take on,” she said.

    “Of course that would be within our (refugee) quota, and within existing intent that we’ve shared with the UN around taking UN mandated refugees.”

    New Zealand’s annual refugee quota is due to be hiked from 750 to 1000 in 2018.

    Checkpoint last night played an audio of an Ardern interview with CNN in which she said she was aiming for NZ to do it’s bit in taking climate change refugees from the Pacific region. At about 1 hour 23-4 mins into the video.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018620069/checkpoint-with-john-campbell-wednesday-1-november-2017

    Checkpoint then played an ABC (Aussie) report on Manus Island.

    • Matthew Whitehead 1.1

      The offer remaining on the table isn’t good enough because Australia are refusing to take it. Ardern needs to figure out if there is some way to make it work, or to side-step Australia, or to strongarm them into taking the deal. Just telling Australia something they obviously don’t want to hear isn’t working, and it was Ardern herself who thought she could navigate the Australian Government’s intransigence better than English. This is her first chance to prove it.

      • Wairua 1.1.1

        Jess might not have much of a chance with Malcolm – but Tainui might if their waka cruised into Nohang on Manus via Tasman/Coral/Bismarck seas, earning respect and bringing highly motivated people back home. It might have to be accompanied by a frigate for safety.

  2. Honestly, it also takes a fair amount of… shall we say boldness, to claim that a group of people who have been denied their human rights and potentially tortured under Australian custody would use the opportunity of New Zealand citizenship as a backdoor into Australia.

    Ever seen that guy Dutton? He’s a swivel-eyed loon and a low-rent gauleiter. This is exactly the kind of “boldness” that he and his fellow Aus conservatives would value. Their assumption is that of course these people would look on NZ as a stepping-stone to the superior country, Australia.

    • Matthew Whitehead 2.1

      Oh, I believe it of Australia’s frankly mendacious and stupid government. I’m just pointing out how illogical it is for all to see.

  3. Antoine 3

    The Australian boat refugee policy is based on deterrence. The idea is to leave prospective migrants in no doubt that they will not get a good outcome by entering the country by boat. The Aussies will not want to let these people enter NZ as it would undermine the deterrence strategy and lead to a further influx.

    A.

    • Antoine 3.1

      I’m not sure the Manus refugees would be great additions to NZ anyway as they would have been messed up by their terrible experiences. From a NZ perspective, it would be better to bring in people who are more likely to be healthy, happy and well integrated.

      A.

      • weka 3.1.1

        Said without a trace of irony.

      • Cinny 3.1.2

        We helped a mum and her kids come to NZ in the 80’s as refugees.

        She had endured some horrific experiences, they would run through the jungle at night and hide during the day. Her husband had been murdered by the military, what she lived through would mess anyone up.

        When they came here, they hardly spoke any english, everything was so strange for them. She cried all night the first night in NZ, it wasn’t because she was sad, it was because she was so happy, her kids had somewhere safe to sleep, she was safe. It had been years since she felt that kind of safety

        Her kids went on to gain university degrees, their lives all changed for the better.

        Refugees don’t come to NZ healthy, happy and well integrated, but once they arrive we can help them to be healthy, happy and integrated.

        The refugee mum is now one of the happiest women I have ever met, every day she is thankful for being here with her kids. And I feel so blessed to know her and her family, she recently came down from Auckland for a visit, I so enjoyed cuddling up with her and laughing, looking at photos of her kids and their families all grown up and contributing to NZ society. Love that lady so much.

        Massively supportive of any refugees that come here, we could do with more of them, they are fantastic people that have suffered greatly due to the decisions of others. Refugees have suffered enough without us turning our backs on them.

        • Antoine 3.1.2.1

          Well done

          • Tracey 3.1.2.1.1

            Pretty sure the point is that you assume bad experience = bad migrant.

            • Matthew Whitehead 3.1.2.1.1.1

              Again, these aren’t migrants. They’re refugees- people who have been politically persecuted for blogging, or for being queer, or other arbitrary reasons, and have fled for their own safety. (or have simply been displaced by or are fleeing from war) Refugees have a more protected status than migrants, so it’s really important to differentiate them.

              We are obliged under the Convention Relating to the Status of Refugees (and therefore, the UNHCR) to take refugees, that’s what the whole quote raising discussion was about. Technically, Australia is too, which is why I have referred to the detention of these refugees in PNG as illegal several times.

              • KJT

                My experience of refugees is the make a infinitely more valuable contribution, to New Zealand, than house speculating millionaires.

          • tracey 3.1.2.1.2

            The point I took from Cinny’s anecdote is that your assumption that bad experience = bad migrant is flawed.

            • Antoine 3.1.2.1.2.1

              I certainly would never assert that _all_ refugees were bad migrants!

              A.

              • tracey

                No but your comments appear to have to be rid with more riders than the Grand National.

              • weka

                “I certainly would never assert that _all_ refugees were bad migrants!”

                No, but you said that refugees that have have had bad experiences shouldn’t come here.

                You do understand how people end up refugees right?

              • Matthew Whitehead

                They’re not migrants at all. As refugees they have additional rights that migrants don’t, and Australia was actually legally obliged to take them in.

            • Cinny 3.1.2.1.2.2

              Yes you know it Tracey 🙂

              Antoine, this bit…..

              “it would be better to bring in people who are more likely to be healthy, happy and well integrated.”

              Refugees don’t come to NZ healthy and happy, but living in NZ we can help them become healthy and happy, we can change and improve lives, that’s the kind of NZ i want to be a part of.

              • Antoine

                Well spoken

                (Edit: I know 2 people who help refugees in NZ and they are both amazing)

                • Cinny

                  Good stuff A. Kudos to those amazing people that you know.

                  Antoine, Seeing as 3 is the magic number, maybe you could know 3 amazing refugee helpers, you could be the third 🙂

                • greywarshark

                  Hey people aren’t amazing because they do something selfless for others. You don’t have to be someone out of the ordinary. The praise should go to the refugees really – they are amazing and many are so strong in their minds, good people despite all, that they look forward and remain positive, and stay sane and regain balance, and reach out and help others when they are on their feet. Now that’s amazing.

                  Paula Bennett turned tough on single parents after being one. John Key was brought up in a state house and then was party to his Party ensuring this government resource was dropped to far below the need. Not all people are amazing in that way thank goodness.

                • Matthew Whitehead

                  So why are you opposing his work by advocating to keep refugees out of NZ, when we already take less per capita than other democratic, developed countries?

                  • Antoine

                    I actually don’t aim to ‘keep refugees out of NZ’: I would be happy to keep or slightly increase our current quota – while preferring to fill it with ‘high functioning’ refugees. I appreciate you disagree with this.

                    I doubt however that we will see an increase in refugee numbers while Peters has the ability to veto it.

                    A.

                    • Matthew Whitehead

                      Some refugees are high functioning, sure, but if we’re gonna limit spots for refugees and provide the heavy support service we currently do, we should prioritize those that aren’t, because not everyone handles refugees with higher needs as well as New Zealand does.

                      It’s not entirely self-interested, (at least not in the traditional sense) sure, but it shows we mean it when we talk about our values on the world stage. It’s precisely our commitment on issues like this that lends credibility to our claim to be straight-talkers in international negotiations and pursue independent foreign policy that’s not always based on political realism- or at least, to do so when National’s not in power.

                      I’m pretty sure Ardern will be savvy and package any increase of refugee numbers together with other initiatives that Peters does want. 😉

                    • Antoine

                      > I’m pretty sure Ardern will be savvy and package any increase of refugee numbers together with other initiatives that Peters does want.

                      I’m pretty sure she would be unsuccessful in such endeavour. We shall see.

                      I’m also pretty sure that she won’t push Aussie too hard on Manus, preferring to save what diplomatic credit we have to try to better the lot of NZers in Australia.

                      A.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      About as successful as billy was at putting together a coalition agreement together eh?

                    • Antoine []

                      Yes, exactly.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      Well that’s just a stupid argument because it’s labour 2 (coalitions with Winston) to Nationals 1. And Nationals only got Seymour left. And nobody likes Seymour.

                    • Antoine

                      > nobody likes Seymour

                      I like him. Thousands of people must like him, otherwise he wouldn’t have got elected.

                      A.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      Bruh. I’m trying to say National have a really shit track record at maintaining coalition agreements. And Labour have a far better track record. And you in total denial.

                    • Antoine []

                      I didnt deny it!!

      • Psycho Milt 3.1.3

        I’m not sure the Manus refugees would be great additions to NZ anyway as they would have been messed up by their terrible experiences.

        Their terrible experiences at the hands of what claims to be a liberal western democracy, yes. Or as OAB put it down-thread re Turnbull:

        “they aren’t genuine refugees…”.

        Well they bloody well are now you’ve finished with them, ‘mate’.

        • Antoine 3.1.3.1

          > Their terrible experiences at the hands of what claims to be a liberal western democracy, yes.

          Yes, those are the terrible experiences I mean.

          A.

          • tracey 3.1.3.1.1

            Do you deliberately post short, easily misconstrued comments to which you then come back multiple times to reply? It just seems if you were clearer about what you mean in your first comment… but maybe that is not as much fun for you?

            • Antoine 3.1.3.1.1.1

              I thought my comments were perfectly clear??

              • weka

                Yes, you want NZ to exclude people from living here that have bad experiences so that NZ can be all sunny and rosy. Really clear.

            • greywarshark 3.1.3.1.1.2

              tracey
              To Antoine Do you deliberately post short, easily misconstrued comments to which you then come back multiple times to reply?

              Answer Yes. And she/he can create a long thread and take up other people’s time interacting with her (why) in this way. Perhaps this person, he or she, enjoys playing the part of the cool intellectual to the hot-headed lefties who react so quickly to her essays into blogging. They aren’t really comments are they, just a long way of saying ‘I don’t care to think about this.’

      • OnceWasTim 3.1.4

        “I’m not sure [insert 3rd World Nationality here] would be great additions to NZ anyway as they would have been messed up by their terrible experiences”. From a NZ perspective, it would be better to bring in [White Anglo Saxon Protestant/Catholic] people who are more likely to be wealthy, privileged and assimilated.

        (/sarc)

        • Antoine 3.1.4.1

          > From a NZ perspective, it would be better to bring in [White Anglo Saxon Protestant/Catholic] people who are more likely to be wealthy, privileged and assimilated.

          Exactly! Why the /sarc?

          A.

          • DoublePlusGood 3.1.4.1.1

            Because that is idiotic racism. You’re a racist.

            • marty mars 3.1.4.1.1.1

              + 1 and thick but then I’ve never met an intelligent racist – oxymoronic.

              • DoublePlusGood

                I’ve met some blatant racists who are at least quite intelligent in terms of cognitive ability, they just choose to use that to be awful people. Which isn’t very smart, but…they could be smart if they wanted to, I guess?

                • Yep a few racists can drive and hold down jobs and appear to be able to function within society – just a cover though – their seething mass of personal insecurity dulls their synapses and blurs the sharp edge of their critical thinking and analysis – thus they think and often blurt out racist rhetoric which is equally pathetic and funny. ☺

          • Andrea 3.1.4.1.2

            “Why the /sarc?” Because that’s a trait of this particular blog.

            Immigrants may well fit your preferred profile – although colour and ethnicity aren’t as importance as adaptability and open -mindedness (because this country has a LONG history of patronising and damning people from other continents – just on accents.) And they can usually leave for other places if the locals are difficult.

            Refugees are not the same – as Cinny as pointed out.

            I just hope that your proffered profile is not matched by opportunists from North America – however many boxes they can tick on the list. 😉 We’ve got enough golf courses, thanks.

      • Matthew Whitehead 3.1.5

        All refugees have experiences like that, Antoine. That’s why we have an acclimatization project that helps them adjust to life in NZ.

        If you’re bringing in people who are healthy, happy, and likely to integrate easily, those are immigrants, not refugees.

        • Antoine 3.1.5.1

          Exactly! We should have more immigrants rather than more refugees.

          • Draco T Bastard 3.1.5.1.1

            We presently have far too many immigrants.

            • marty mars 3.1.5.1.1.1

              Citation needed please

                • In the stuff one – They asked the question whether immigration was to blame and the answer from the treasury report was interpreted as, ‘seems to suggest’ – hardly definitive.

                  Anyway your original statement was subjective so all good.

                  • In the stuff one – They asked the question whether immigration was to blame and the answer from the treasury report was interpreted as, ‘seems to suggest’ – hardly definitive.

                    Which means more data is needed but indications are that immigration has costs – as anyone who can do logic would know.

                    Anyway your original statement was subjective so all good.

                    Only in your delusional world where immigration doesn’t have a large number of costs associated with it.

              • weka

                Where I live they keep building new suburbs, and all the infrastructure that goes with that. I don’t know how to explain this because I think it’s self evident, but we live in a finite world, so the issue is about how many people we want and how many we can support ecologically.

                My preference is we increase the number of refugee people we give a home to, and lessen/stabilise the number of immigrants from wealthy countries where the people are already doing well. There will also be a case to be made for people immigrating to improve their lives where that is substantially below our standard of living.

                I also think NZers need to drop their standard of living, or at last get real that increasing our standard of living comes at the cost of other people.

                At the moment we are looking at immigration in terms of the economy. I want us to look at it in terms of ecology, of which the economy is but a subset.

            • tracey 3.1.5.1.1.2

              I think the last immigrant to go to parliament was a former trainer of chinese spies. Whereas the last refugee is an International lawyer

            • Matthew Whitehead 3.1.5.1.1.3

              Arguably long term we will need to reduce our population, maybe even below current numbers, this is true, however all indications are that we are already on track for global population stabilisation and even some decline in the future, (although likely not below current population numbers- estimates are that at peak we will reach 11b) which means that countries like New Zealand will likely end up with smaller populations given that immigration demand will go down in the long-term, given that our birth rate, even with heavy immigration, (this is relevant because immigrants and refugees tend to have larger families than citizens born in New Zealand) is still below 2 children per woman.

              That means any immigration “problems” we have are short or medium term ones, about exploitation of immigrants, or immigration outstripping infrastructure development. Neither of these situations are the fault of immigrants, and while it might not be bad to slow down immigration from a short-term perspective, we should be very careful about the implications for a diverse, open, and inclusive New Zealand in discussing that in the abstract, because it has very real effects on both the immigrants that want to come in, but also the ones that are already here.

              • …given that our birth rate, (this is relevant because immigrants and refugees tend to have larger families than citizens born in New Zealand) is still below 2 children per woman.

                Which probably shows a major problem with our socialisation.

                That means any immigration “problems” we have are short or medium term ones, about exploitation of immigrants, or immigration outstripping infrastructure development. Neither of these situations are the fault of immigrants

                Correct but doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t do something about those problems.

                …because it has very real effects on both the immigrants that want to come in, but also the ones that are already here.

                Neither of those are our concerns as a nation. If some potential immigrants decide they don’t want to come here then that’s their choice. Our choice is how many and who we let in.

                • Matthew Whitehead

                  1) No it doesn’t. This is a norm around the developed world. Living our lifestyle makes you not want to replace the population. It’s not a long-term problem, as most likely it will still take a large workforce to support a lifestyle like in modern New Zealand into the future, so likely any population decline will cause the very social changes needed to reverse the trend.

                  2) Yes, we should do something, we should invest in more infrastructure and labour inspectors. We need them anyway to deal with the people already here, so why not just a little bit more?

                  3) It damn well is our problem as a nation. If our own citizens, no matter how new they are, are feeling alienated by our political rhetoric in any significant number, (and they are, trust me, part of the malaise that was happening before the Green reboot was about the immigration rhetoric in all three remaining left-of-national parties being unwelcoming to liberals who wanted a pro-immigration stance) that is in fact a national issue just as much as white middle class men in Auckland feeling crowded by immigration, or rural people who mostly don’t even see the results of migration feeling like we have “too many immigrants” for some inexplicable reason. I’m glad that our choices this election weren’t between, to exaggerate slightly, “exploit migrants” and “no migrants.”

                  I don’t recall you saying you were an immigrant to New Zealand, DTB. Unless you were, ruling out their concerns from political discourse really isn’t your prerogative.

                  • Unless you were, ruling out their concerns from political discourse really isn’t your prerogative.

                    My parents were and a lot of what new immigrants are asking for just weren’t available and still shouldn’t be. New immigrants should be aware that they’ve left their old life behind and not try to drag it with them. I.e, if the parents want to immigrate then fine, they go through the immigration procedure as normal. They shouldn’t get a free pass just because their children have already immigrated.

                    These people are now trying to bring their son here despite purposefully having left him off their immigration because having him on it would have prevented them getting their permanent residence. It’s a rort that’s been going on for some time and is getting worse. We actually don’t want such corrupt people here.

                    There’s a difference between pro-immigration and thinking we should just let anybody in.

                    • Matthew Whitehead

                      Sure, I’m a second generation kiwi on my father’s side too. I’m sure you’ll agree that doesn’t make me an immigrant, btw, even if it makes my connection to that experience a little fresher than most kiwis because I heard my dad’s stories about immigrating here directly, rather than having them passed down or even forgotten. I will remember him telling me what it was like to grow up working class in Manchester, before they left. These influenced my political values deeply.

                      I agree that we have to have limits, I’m just troubled by some of your rhetoric about them and find it going too far in some areas. For instance, sure, I agree with you that people shouldn’t lie about their situation when trying to obtain residency, but saying that people “should leave their old life behind” is simply wrong. What they need to accept is that if anyone else in their family who wasn’t listed on their application or isn’t their partner, is going to have to apply separately to move here, and that they may not be successful. That’s not the same thing as “leaving your old life behind.”

                      I still want them to have family and cultural connections to their old life, but I want those connections to be by visiting or calling if those people can’t legally immigrate here. I want them to bring the best of their life before they came to New Zealand to their life here. I want them to help forge a bridge between countries, but one where we all only cross as much as each of us are comfortable with. I hope that’s the case with you too, but I honestly find it hard to tell with how anti you get on immigration in general sometimes, rather than simply talking about flouting the rules like you did in the latter part of your post, which I think is absolutely within the reasonable bounds of rhetoric, at least where the rules are humane. (some of them, such as chucking people out because of disabilities or medical conditions that weren’t even ommitted during the immigration process, are simply absurd)

                    • (some of them, such as chucking people out because of disabilities or medical conditions that weren’t even omitted during the immigration process, are simply absurd)

                      That would be absurd. It’s a legal requirement to state them after all and if a potential immigrant does have such conditions they don’t get residency at that point because they fail the medical reasons.

                      In other words, if they did have such conditions they’re out of the running to get residency and thus no citizenship or immigration to NZ which means that the condition you mention couldn’t possibly happen – unless they lied on their application.

                      …but saying that people “should leave their old life behind” is simply wrong.

                      But they are leaving their old life behind. Their new life in NZ will not be the same even if NZ does adopt some of the culture that they bring with them.

                      I still want them to have family and cultural connections to their old life, but I want those connections to be by visiting or calling if those people can’t legally immigrate here.

                      And those visits and connections are up to them. It’s got nothing to do with the government and they should have no influence on the immigration process as doing so is motivation for corruption.

              • Zorb6

                You are well intentioned but naive,altruism does not go down well with voters.This Govt has the opportunity to incrementally reintroduce some much needed moral virtue to policy.We have had 9 years of expediency,lies and neglect of social issues.Your soapbox ,hand wringing ,demand to cater to non core issues is counter productive.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Oh noes! It’s just not the right time! Again!

                  I’d just like to say, Zorb, that I’ve had a gutsful of incompetent fearful can’t-do drivel; I’m well over the cowardice your rhetoric betrays.

                  If you don’t want to play, go home. No-one will notice.

                  • Zorb6

                    Wow you must be a tough guy hiding inside a …mouse.The ultimate keyboard damsel in a dress.

                    • McFlock

                      Now you’ve absolutely, positively, without a shred of a doubt persuaded us all that you have been blessed with a substantive and reliably rigid penis and thus established your intellectual dominance over everyone else, could you explain again why you’re happy to do nothing for seven hundred people in thirty degree (centigrade) heat without supplies?

                    • Really?
                      Sexism is all you’ve got?

                      How truly pathetic.

                  • greywarshark

                    OAB 7.17pm
                    +100

                • Matthew Whitehead

                  Here we go. You don’t know how to take me down in an argument, and your usual level of trolling isn’t working, so you’re going to try turn me into a stereotype.

                  Well, too bad for you, as you’d know if you’d remove your head from the rest of your anatomy, my hands aren’t wringing. 😉 And just because I talk from a position of strongly held values doesn’t mean I’m on my soapbox. This is just how I talk to people all the time, and you’ll get the same level of principles and analysis on say, universal basic income, as you will on refugees, it’s just we’ve leaned heavily on values and the law here because there are a fair amount of people who don’t understand our legal obligations to refugees in this thread, and a fair amount who seem idealogically opposed to the whole idea of welcoming new people to our country from time to time. (people doing so from an indigenous perspective I can understand, but not from stuff like “it’s not the right time”)

                  Welcoming refugees isn’t “expediency,” it’s “values,” and it’s a big part of what we’ve been missing these nine long years of National government. Showing people that we can be kind and strong at the same time on issues. If we “do it later” or pretend not to have the values we really have, we’re in for another nine long years starting in 2020. We need to be different where we’re different, and for Labour and the Greens, part of that is that we support welcoming refugees. Grow some courage and be willing to take a risk to save some people’s lives.

          • Matthew Whitehead 3.1.5.1.2

            We already bring in below our share of refugees, Antoine, and even with Labour’s changes we are still likely to be behind both Australia and the USA per capita. (although we do support them better afaik) Please stop saying stupid things just to provoke a reaction, it doesn’t work on me.

        • Zorb6 3.1.5.2

          Taking up your recommendations would guarantee a one term government.So adopting them would do more long term harm than good.

          • Matthew Whitehead 3.1.5.2.1

            Oh, I’m sure that concerns you greatly.

            The government already plans to take up “my recommendations” around taking a fairer share of the world’s refugees, it’s both Labour and Green policy, and both the Labour and Green parties want to do something about the Manus Island Refugees, (although whether Ardern has gotten further than simply renewing National’s empty offer isn’t clear) so we’ll get a chance to see whether you’re right or wrong.

            I believe that most New Zealanders believe in openness, inclusivity, fairness, and taking responsibility for our place in the wider world, when they’re treated with respect and given a chance to open themselves up to those possibilities. These are the types of values we’re proud of when we tell national stories about being nuclear free, or opposing the Springbok tour, but those things are historical, and it’s time to activate those values in 2017 and translate them into better policy, and new brave stories that Gen X, Millenials, and Gen Z can tell about why they’re proud to be New Zealanders today.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.5.2.1.1

              Pride comes before a fall. Nationalism is a mistake. If you’re going to cite values be sure of your ground.

              • Matthew Whitehead

                Did anything I say, at all, that came even close to nationalism?

                Nationalism is being proud in your country, right or wrong, and either wanting a closed, xenophobic policy with respect to the rest of the world, or in more benign cases, wanting an emphasis on indigenous culture, language, and other local customs. The only type of nationalism that you’ll ever hear come out of my mouth (or see me write down, I guess) is that second type, and I generally leave that for Māori to do on their own behalf and simply agree with them loudly.

                What I was talking about was (social) liberalism, prosocial behaviour, and inclusiveness, and its relevance to New Zealanders’ self-conception. We have a myth of ourselves as those things, a sort of liberal pop patriotism, but we’ve not been living up to them on the world stage for quite a while- the closest we got was the Clark government dipping its toes back into the water. It’s time to bring them back, and by people power if necessary.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  “Patriotic feelings, principles, or efforts…”

                  The values you ascribe to national identity are neither innate nor universally held. In short, they aren’t New Zealand values they’re humanist values (or some other label, but the category isn’t the point).

                  When we assert that x y or z are New Zealand values, we automatically exclude anyone who doesn’t share them.

                  Quick, grab the flag! 🙂

                  • Matthew Whitehead

                    Sure, I agree they’re values that belong to those ideologies first and foremost. But to say they can’t be New Zealand values because telling political stories about our country is always a lie, or propaganda, or pick your poison- well that’s just as rubbish as those more nationalist types who see any criticism of our country as an insult to them personally.

                    We have to tell stories about politics to connect with people. Some of those stories will be about how they see New Zealand, (not because it’s Being A Kiwi that’s important, but because their associations of similar actions with their identity as kiwis is a more powerful emotional resonance than simply saying empty facts like “hey, economically, migrants are great”) and whether we as a country are living up to their values as New Zealanders. And yes, some of our stories won’t sit well with certain people, so it’s important we be careful in picking who we oppose with our stories.

                    And the only people opposing immigration I have any sympathy at all for are those who are worried about not having enough of their own country left for themselves, especially those coming from an indigenous perspective. (I won’t address worries about Taking Our Jobs here in detail, because I think we both agree they’re simply not factual?) I think it’s important that any political narratives we have about immigration are sensitive to Māori and how damaging colonialism has been culturally, economically, and socially to our treaty partners who have welcomed immigrants into this country into the past and been hurt by it, which is part of why immigration has to be tied into honouring Te Tiriti, and also honouring other, later treaties New Zealand entered into, like the one establishing that we are responsible to take a fair share of the world’s refugees. We are currently not doing our part, and even doubling the quota and hitting the new quota every year, will still see us behind per capita.

      • Wairua 3.1.6

        That would drastically reconfigure the inclusive dynamics of this country.

        Would you extend that to people who historically arrived in waka, and those who fought in Land Wars popularised by an eccentric professor at Department of History, Oxford, in a disunited kingdom ?

      • Ian 3.1.7

        you are a beacon of light in the darkness that has slid over this country.A slither of common sense shines out of the madness

        • Sam aka clump 3.1.7.1

          For all you non resident, non citizen types out there thinking immigration is an open door to people who look like you, and talk like you, and think like you. You are wrong. This is how it is.

          New Zealanders do not yield to fascist. And we don’t yield to tyrants. In fact New Zealand has a fine tradition of reeducating fascists and tyrants in the value of small failings leading to huge consequences. While hundreds and thousands of refugees fleeing persecution and death may not seem small to some. The route that they travel along is essential to New Zealands living standards, exporting billions of goods and services along our vast sea lanes of communication transmiting communications (SLoC) And there are millions of potential refugees that would strain those vital routes simply by taking undue time and resources off those leaders who should be focused on other things. There are plenty of reports circulating that the vast majority of refugees seeking asylum are coming from war ravaged Iraq, Afghanistan and other Middle East territory where western lust for land, minerals, resources and water, and western exceptionalism is generating even more refugees than can be handled.

          Indonesia has the Largest Muslim population in the world. Also located along New Zealand’s SLoC. Indonesia has had some success integrating middle eastern Muslims into there populations. Except for very recently when ISIS reared its ugly head and got stomped. But what change? When Muslims started traveling to the pacific in the 1800’s and before. There was no need for oil at that time. Pretty much all they had to worry about was the local war lord pinching all there camals, and then fighting about that mainly with swords. They could still generate a harvest. And so they sailed in ships with commerce. Now the Middle East is in turmoil over what to do with dwindling oil supplies and an America bombing the shit out of it or funding local fundamentalist monarchies to do it for them. So now they travel with the sword.

          Until that exceptional mentality is cured. New Zealand’s SLoC will continue to be put under strain. It is far better we trade with these refugees now, with kindness than by the sword.

        • Antoine 3.1.7.2

          > you are a beacon of light in the darkness that has slid over this country

          Who is? Matthew or me??

          A.

        • One Anonymous Bloke 3.1.7.3

          The sky is falling the sky is falling.

          “Going to be a pretty sad day for you on Thursday”. Do you recall telling me that in your arrogant certainty? Might be an opportunity for some quiet introspection.

          Chin up, dry your tears. Change is coming.

    • Matthew Whitehead 3.2

      Except there is absolutely no evidence that the “deterrence” of being tough on “boat people,” aka. desperate refugees who resort to people smugglers to leave war zones, is working. They keep getting more. Wouldn’t it make more sense to both countries for each of us to say “come to NZ instead, we will consider whether you qualify for our refugee problem?” It gets the discouragement to come to Aussie that those bigots want, and it gets the humane treatment of refugees that governments both Left and Right in New Zealand have agreed on. As I pointed out in the main post, this is the solution that both John Key and Bill English wanted, too.

      • Antoine 3.2.1

        Quite wrong! The deterrence policy resulted in a large decrease in the rate of asylum seekers arriving by boat, see eg http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-28189608

        • Matthew Whitehead 3.2.1.1

          That article doesn’t say the number arriving decreased. It says the number allowed into Australia has decreased.

          It also says that the policy is racially motivated, and considered illegal in PNG and under international law. Care to comment on either of those?

          • Wairua 3.2.1.1.1

            Matthew, I strongly recommend you read “The Other Side Of The Frontier” by Henry Reynolds
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side_of_the_Frontier
            develop a broader grasp of *australasian* history, and spend some time in an Australian intellectual milieu .. before commenting further.

            • Matthew Whitehead 3.2.1.1.1.1

              Well that’s incredibly rude.

              Firstly, I’m the author of this piece, so it’s essentially my thread, so no, I’m not leaving on your say-so, especially not on your first ever reply to me.

              Secondly, I’m not reading a book without any synopsis of its relevance to this thread, especially with my time commitments and budget right now.

              Thirdly, this is not actually a piece about Australia per se. It is about the Manus Island refugees, and while the history of Australia and its aboriginal movement and historical resistance to colonialism is likely highly relevant to the politics of Australian refugees and in a wider sense, immigration into Australia, it doesn’t undo the practical reality that not only Australia, but also New Zealand, have a legal obligation to take refugees that make it to their country, and a humanitarian obligation to take refugees in dire situations even if they haven’t made it to their shores. No amount of Australian (not Australasian, because that’s an even wider context again) history will change that fact, or the contemporary political environment, no matter how unjustly it was established- that’s work for the future.

              If you have specific feedback about the relevance of this book, then feel welcome to enlighten me. But I can’t read a book for every single piece I write, and I did in fact heavily research the context of refugees in Australia and New Zealand before writing even this very small (at least by my standards) piece, because I do take my obligation to offer you researched, fair, and informed opinion pieces seriously.

          • greywarshark 3.2.1.1.2

            Matthew W
            Thanks for putting us right on this. These RW trolls play footsie with the facts and present themselves as knowledgable and accurate.

          • Antoine 3.2.1.1.3

            > That article doesn’t say the number arriving decreased. It says the number allowed into Australia has decreased.That article doesn’t say the number arriving decreased. It says the number allowed into Australia has decreased.

            I am referring to the quote “At its peak, 18,000 people arrived in Australia illegally by sea. However the numbers plummeted after the government introduced tough new policies to “stop the boats”.”

            It’s not an ideal reference because it doesn’t quantify the ‘plummeting’, I chose it because it is the BBC and very reputable. I could find official sources showing the rate of plummeting, if you wanted.

            > It also says that the policy is racially motivated, and considered illegal in PNG and under international law. Care to comment on either of those?

            I don’t have a strong view about those things

            A.

            • Sam aka clump 3.2.1.1.3.1

              A friend of mine processed refugees on Christmas Island for a time. She was on good money and said she was on even better money processing refugees when Christmas Island was first built. And she claimed, and I’ll claim here that 99% of the applications she processed where legitimate. Meaning if they where to be sent back to there homelands they’ll likely face persecutions or worse. Death. And you can check Australian immigration literature around this yourself. There’s enough publicly available information. Some of which your are keenly aware. And some you simply ignore.

  4. Bill 4

    Well, we know Winston’s preferred solution…

    If there are men who are escaping a war zone, they should be tooled up and sent back.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/283619/send-refugee-men-back-to-fight-is-peters

    • tracey 4.1

      And that is quite reflective of NZF Law and Order policy too.

    • james 4.2

      Thats the Joys of going into coalition with Winston. Will be interesting just how much he shapes the Jacinda led government.

    • And to a large degree I agree with him. If people are having problems in their country then they should probably try to sort out their country rather than run to another which can’t afford to take them.

  5. One Anonymous Bloke 5

    …a solution where we assure Malcolm Turnball that these people have no further intention to move to Australia…

    No thanks. Why should we lift a finger to appease Malcolm Turnbull or anyone who sails in him?

    The gas that bubbles up from that cesspool forms rhetoric that he faithfully expels, “they aren’t genuine refugees…”.

    Well they bloody well are now you’ve finished with them, ‘mate’.

    Get him over here and ship him off to the Hague to face justice.

    • Matthew Whitehead 5.1

      But not lifting a finger to “appease” Turnball, while playing well to people who want us to be “tough” on Aussie, has obviously done nothing to help the refugees whose asylum claims deserve processing. Allaying Australia’s concerns or offering them something to appease their bad-boy image on immigration may be the price of rescuing these people, and savvy leaders sometimes realize that the best you’ll get is a trade. I’m not above trading to get a better outcome for the Manus detainees.

      • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1

        I’m not suggesting that we don’t help the refugees: I’m suggesting that we offer Australia no guarantees about their future citizenship status or (legally guaranteed by the UDoHR and BoRA) freedom of movement.

        • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.1.1

          You’ll notice that I also suggested we don’t compromise on their citizenship status or right to immigrate to Australia. (we can’t compromise the rights of potential residents or citizens just to appease Australia) Just consider providing a statement that any people resettled intend to reside in New Zealand, not Australia. 🙂

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.1.1

            Nope. Deal directly with the PNG authorities. Inform the Australians when the operation to clean up their mess will commence, as a courtesy.

            Offer them nothing.

            • Sam aka clump 5.1.1.1.1.1

              You know America and Australia actual pay PnG and Indonesia and Mexico and others to take unprocessed refuges. That shouldn’t be ignored. But there are 10’s of millions more refugees right behind them in equally desperate need. So some one will eventually have to go to those place where refugees are fleeing from and give the people doing all the tormenting the ‘what’s up? Why are you so angry? So your a tough fulla.’

              • One Anonymous Bloke

                There’s strong evidence that eg: the civil war in Syria was at least in part driven by climate change, in which case, the people doing the tormenting are you and I and everyone else, dependent on our personal carbon footprint.

                The 5-eyes desire for control over (more) oil reserves (than fascists and other human rights abusers – and some innocent parties who get in the way) is in part paid for by our tax dollars. Again, this is a source of global conflict.

                It’s said that the supply chain of raw materials is so infested with slavery and human trafficking that we’re all complicit in that too.

                Australia’s wingnuts are pretending that being tough human rights abuse is the solution, when in fact human rights abuse is the problem.

            • Matthew Whitehead 5.1.1.1.1.2

              That is certainly my preferred course of action, if it’s available. It would require some trust be extended both by PNG and by the refugees, though.

        • Sam aka clump 5.1.1.2

          There’s APEC soon. Every one will be there including the Trump. I only see these types of regional instability bolstering New Zealand’s negotiating positions.

          • One Anonymous Bloke 5.1.1.2.1

            Because we can use our ability/desire/obligation/duty/basic human kindness to offer shelter and support as a bargaining chip?

            • Sam aka clump 5.1.1.2.1.1

              Well. Late one night Trump said he was going to “blow ISIS up.” I’m quoting from his Twitter feed. And these orders actually went down the pipe. Eventually leading days latter to the Mother of All Bombs (MOAB) being dropped on Afghanistan and a missile strike on a Russian airfield in Syria killing 54/55 people. But if you take a second look at Trumps Twitter feed there is a huge reaction to all this, and because Trump treats the Clinton news network (CNN) and others with disgust. MSM has little choice but to report these shannanigins. And this is completely different to the reactions of Obamas drone policy, or Bush Jr escapades in Iraq, and you can go back as far as you want to look to see any number of world leaders trying to hide from the fact that they’ve approved all this. But this is the stuff we ought to focus on.

  6. Johnr 6

    Yes,I agree that we should do what we can to help the Manus Island refugees.
    But, it utterly galls me that in doing so Australia’s objectives would be achieved.
    It is time that Australia discovers some serious diplomatic consequences for this atrocious behaviour.
    They have become a detestable race of people

    • tracey 6.1

      Hearing you… and all the CER bandwagoning is galling when the Aussies run roughshod over

      Kiwi students
      Kiwis qualifying for citizenship
      Kiwis getting healthcare…

      But we cant stop any aussie interactions her, cos CER

  7. Shona 7

    Why are Aussies still allowed into our schools universities and health system without being charged full fees? why aren’t they taxed upon either entry or departure at a special guest rate when visiting? They have treated Kiwis like shit for as long as I can remember. I lived there for quite a while children and grandchildren still do for economic reasons( our wages and salaries are crap). Great people in many ways their history is filled with wonderful migrant communities who have made Australia the country of well managed wealth that it is. Their ignorance of and lack of respect for NZ needs to be pointed out in no uncertain terms . They need to be penalised every step of the way . If they access any of our health and welfare and education systems at any time during residence here they need to be taxed or charge full fees. No exceptions including diplomats.And if they apply for citizenship new barriers to their applications need to be created every step of the way whenever we feel inclined. No reasons given. they need to know how it feels. Repeat and rinse repeat and rinseetc.

    • tracey 7.1

      Apparently the invisible ink in CER says they do what they like and we do what they like.

    • RedLogix 7.2

      As a kiwi expat in Australia I can keenly appreciate your sentiment, however more effective than hitting ordinary people would be a special tax on their banks that operate here.

      The problem is the original CER, while quite specific about the movement of goods and capital, pre-1973 it was much less clear on the question of people. There was already a customary arrangement (the TransTasman Travel Agreement) in place that allowed New Zealanders and Australians to travel freely, and everyone more or less assumed this would continue to apply.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Tasman_Travel_Arrangement

      Over time this agreement has been modified substantially, and I think much of this was inevitable. Part of the blame lies with a succession of NZ govts quite happy to export our chronic employment problems to Australia, with little thought to the long-term relationship or consequences.

      Indeed while it is true that Australia treats us pretty much as disposable guest workers; full-time residents for tax purposes and temporary ones for all others … the NZ govt pretty much ignores us totally. There are roughly 650,000 of us here in Australia, yet typically less than 20,000 of us are engaged enough to vote. And if you haven’t traveled back to NZ within the last 3 years you can’t even do that. Effectively disenfrachised in both countries.

      Literally the only politician to pay us any attention within recent memory has been Kelvin Davis. It would be good to see him keep up some momentum in this area.
      The way forward with Australians is persistent, up front messaging. Subtlety is largely wasted on them. 🙂

      • veutoviper 7.2.1

        Well said, RedLogix. An excellent summary of the history etc of the Trans Tasman Travel Arrangement and CER – regrettably I suspect it will be ignored by, or go over the heads of, some here.

      • tracey 7.2.2

        Thanks for being so articulate here.

      • OnceWasTim 7.2.3

        I have to say Australia has become one of the most hideous, racist, feral countries on Earth in the past 10-15 years. Possibly with the exception of Victoria, and small parts of other states.
        After the fall of the last Labour government, (I sensed what was to come), I considered moving back there after 40+ years (I was once actually an Australian passport holder in the days when going from Wellington to Melbourne was simply a matter of jumping on the next Flotta Lauro ship or TEAL Electra).
        Thank Christ! I didn’t – Tarn Yabbit, Corman, Dutton and a raft of others – and that’s just at federale level.
        So much for all that ‘ANZAC spirit’ shit that gets trotted out every year. It was once a ‘spirit’ that applied to all, but now only exists amongst the military, or when we all pay respect to them, or in times of disaster (like some sort of obligation – probably born out of guilt). They have a patronising attitude to their ‘little brother Koiwois who just have to learn to stand on their own two feet.
        The whole Immigrant/Refugee policies must be the world’s worst. The hypocrisy, the double standards!. Antoine (here) would be having a wet dream! Their policies – complete with language – that have gradually wormed their ugly way across the Tezzie too.

        Labeling people as “low quality” or “economic migrants” seems especially hypocritical to me, as does the whole ‘don’t come by boat, but we’ll deign to look at you as a legit refugee if you’ve conjured up the money to come by air. Even IF you’ve flushed your documents down the dunny on the inbound flight.

        We seem to have an attitude that it’s OK for ‘US’ to seek better fortunes elsewhere when times get tough in Anzacistan,
        BUT!!! woe betide ‘THEM’ if they’re any shade of black and they have the very same ambition.
        Their only out is if they have lots of filthy lucre, then they’re welcome. Very very welcome. We won’t ask questions even if it’s black money (after all, it just matches your skin colour and who are we to judge, eh? eh? eh? Skoi City, Skoi City, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, real estate, real estate, knowing look, knowing look, Todd Barclay, Steven Choice, Judith Collins, kauri tabletop, eh? eh? know what I mean? eh? eh?).

  8. Karsten 8

    The ActionStation petition seems to have been taken down just now… It was still up half an hour ago.

  9. Zorb6 9

    We seem to have a big problem with housing and homelessness right here ,right now.Solving that should be the priority.In the meantime the offer to take 150 is generous enough.

    • tracey 9.1

      Maybe we could just send the homeless to an island?

      • Zorb6 9.1.1

        That seems like a stupid idea.Millions of refugees in the world.Can NZ save them all?

        • weka 9.1.1.1

          No-one has suggested that NZ take millions of refugees.

          We could do much more to help people in other countries have good lives too.

          • Zorb6 9.1.1.1.1

            Someone suggested sending NZ’s homeless to an island.I don’t think thats a good idea.Charity begins at home.

            • weka 9.1.1.1.1.1

              She was being sarcastic to make a point. The point was that the refugees are homeless too and abandoned on an island. There’s not that many of them, NZ could easily take some or all.

              • Zorb6

                Surely the point is-its not NZ’s problem or responsibility to address it.The Rohingya refugee crisis in Bangladesh is chronic right now ,should NZ get involved here too,or is it just because Manaus is closer?

                • weka

                  I think we have an obligation to make sure that other people in the world have access to human rights. That includes a place to live, but also water, food, security. Those human rights are being denied 700 people right now. We can do something about that pretty easily.

                  I’m sure there are things we can do to help with Bangladesh too. We have an increasing quota, but actually I think we should be changing expectations around globalisation and internationalism. At the moment developed countries contribute to problems in poorer places and we (you and I) directly benefit from that. So even if you don’t have compassion for people in general, there is a moral obligation to not live off other people’s misery.

                  I wrote a post about it once. Maybe I need to write a new one about what it would like if we stopped outsourcing poverty. I have no problem with controlled borders, I do have a problem with us sitting in our castle and saying that the peasants outside can fend for themselves.

                  This is the face of the failure of globalisation

                  • weka

                    and yes, I do think we have a primary responsibility to our closer neighbours, because acting local builds resiliency and sustainability.

                • McFlock

                  We have a responsibility to try to address all problems and crises.

                  However, our efforts must be proportionate to our power to do anything about it: most of our responsibilities internationally are to actively participate and support international efforts and organisations. But as problems approach us, our ability to directly intervene effectively increases.

                  In this case, we can literally send a ship or two to pick up a few hundred people.

                • greywarshark

                  Zorb6
                  Song to go with your attitude.

                  ‘Do Nothing Till you Hear from me …
                  And you never will.’
                  Nina Simone

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.1.1.1.2

              Charity is an obscenity. This, on the other hand is a moral and legal obligation. Yes, I know you don’t understand that.

      • Zorb6 9.1.2

        Catriona Maclennan NZH-‘About 305,000 – or 29 per cent – of our children live in poverty.’What island did you have in mind?

        • tracey 9.1.2.1

          Where do you live? I suggested the homelss could go to an island not poor children.

          • Zorb6 9.1.2.1.1

            I have been told you are sarcastic.The point is we have enough problems to address here in NZ before we solve all the worlds problems.

            • McFlock 9.1.2.1.1.1

              What’s this “we”? I’m not sure you have any inclination to do either.

              And it’s not like we can’t do our part for both.

              • Zorb6

                What exactly is ‘our part’?As you don’t understand ‘we’ how do you define ‘our’?

                • McFlock

                  I understand “we”. I’m just not sure you should be lumping yourself in with the rest of us – the “our”.

                  Given our part (“our” referring to people who genuinely would like to do something to help others, rather than use one group’s misery as an excuse to not do anything to help another group) changes according to the specific circumstances and complications of any given problem and the varying logistical, practical, and opportunity costs in the spectrum of possible ways we could respond to each individual problem, your request for an exact definition of a generalised “our part” is naive to the point of incompetence.

                  However, in the case of Manus Island refugees, we can at relatively trivial cost to ourselves send a ship or two, pick up 700 people, house them in some (probably ex-NZDF) state land and provide them medical, social, language and integration/cultural support until they become contributing members of society. It’s not a systemic problem. It doesn’t require us to redesign an economy. It’s a few hundred families, who’ll love NZ for it.

                  Probably be some bloody good cricketers or rugby players in ’em and all. Having one of them or their kids in a Bledisloe cup victory would have the aussies spewing tacks. Talk about “enlightened self interest” 😉

                  • Zorb6

                    ‘our’ ‘we’-whats in it for ‘us’.I don’t like cricket…

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      I love it! Or am I just showing my age?

                    • McFlock

                      So, basically, you’re happy to leave the refugees in a hostile environment without food, water or support, because you can’t see anything in it for you.

                      Yeah, please don’t use “we” – I hate the thought that I’m in the same group as you.

                      edit: I’m not a huge cricket fan, either. But a “one up on Ausssie” fan, most definitely lol

                    • Zorb6

                      McFlock.We live in the real world whether you accept that or not.Get off your high horse.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      @McFlock, I hate the thought that I’m in the same group as you.

                      C’mon, you don’t really mean that. We’re not going to stand by and just let the fucker drown.

                    • McFlock

                      @zorb6 – and in the real world, for a trivial expenditure, we can relieve the suffering and insecurity of 700 people within a few days.

                      Quicker than solving the homeless problem, which we can do at the same time.

                      Why shouldn’t we?

                      edit: @oab – but we have bigger problems, closer to home, than some entitled idiot/sociopath…

                  • Zorb6

                    And after that precedent.i.e saving those 700-what then?You are blinded by altruism.If the Govt does what you want,they will be lucky to last a term

                    • McFlock

                      What then?

                      Then we don’t have a problem practically on our doorstep that we can literally solve with one prime ministerial order, two ships, and a modest expansion of existing service provisions.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Meanwhile, on another planet, net migration to New Zealand is ~70k per annum.

                      Oh noes, but 700! The sky is falling the sky is falling!

                      The stupid! It burns.

                    • Zorb6

                      How old are you Mcflock, 16?You don’t seem to understand reality.This Govt has been in power 5 minutes and you want it to deal with asides instead of tackling real problems at home.

                    • Zorb6

                      @OAB.Why stop there!Over 200,000 work visas are issued each year.Give queue jumping immigrants another incentive.

                    • McFlock

                      Not “instead of”. “As well as”.

                      Compared with most aid efforts, it’s a simple task, with minimal logistics and a clear exit. Civil defence were helping thousands of people within hours of the earthquakes. We can handle a few hundred people. We have contingency plans for improvised shelter camps in the case of emergency, we know how to do this. We’ve had people doing it overseas for years.

                      Hell, if PNG is cool with it we don’t even need to send ships – we have C130s and other aircraft if they have a runway.

                      You talk about the optics of it to the NZ public? It goes straight to the idea of a new, caring government.

                      This is exactly the time and the task to change the conversation from your “what’s in it for me” to a more human “what’s the right thing to do”.

                    • McFlock

                      Over 200,000 work visas are issued each year.Give queue jumping immigrants another incentive.

                      Why not, if they’ve got the same skills as the work visa recipients?

                      It’s not “queue-jumping” if that’s how the queue is arranged.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      If I’m reading this right MFAT is supposed to spend $70 million on P&G aid over 3 years since 2015. From what I can gather we’ve only spent about $800k of those allocated funds. So IMHO we could quite easily casually resettle 700 refugees from West Papua… https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/aid-and-development/our-approach-to-aid/where-our-funding-goes/our-planned-aid-expenditure/

                    • Zorb6

                      @Sam Clump.That is not the point.Setting precedents and alienating Australia is what is important.

                    • Sam aka clump

                      Im sorry Zorb. You lost me at precedence, alienating, and important. But good luck with it. I’m sure some one will be willing you on.

                • greywarshark

                  In NZ we have accepted globalisation and free trade with the rest of the world. We have been part of the UN from the beginning. We can’t withdraw from world problems and say we are too small and too distant, but send troops to fight in overseas wars. We are in the soup too and are part of the problems that cause refugees. It is only Australia can refuses to think of strategies. They probably can’t sit straight in their seats in their parliament.

                  We need to have some integrity even if they are paranoid about brown skin. It is a wonder they don’t do raids in summer on Bondi and drag all those sun-tinted people away to send to an island in another galaxy.

            • One Anonymous Bloke 9.1.2.1.1.2

              Pretending something’s impossible because you didn’t want to try in the first place.

              Even “all the world’s problems” get solved one at a time. This is one we can help with, and sooth your fevered brow, have a little lie down and a sedative, sweetheart, we can walk and chew gum at the same time.

              In other words, I reject your suggestion that we divert funds away from cleaning up the National Party’s mess in order to do the right thing on Manus Island.

              • Zorb6

                I am not your sweetheart.You appear to be a member of the queer mafia,and to be clear I am not advocating diverting funds to the Manus Is situation.It is not NZ’s problem.

                • One Anonymous Bloke

                  Sorry poppet, don’t get all het up about it; you’ll let the side down.

                  While I have your flaccid and rather gross attention though, I’d just like to point out that we have other funds available for this purpose, so chill, sister.

                  • Zorb6

                    Don’t get your panties in a bunch.You are probably in need of a stiff talking to.Tell me about these ‘other’ funds seeing as you know so much.

                    • One Anonymous Bloke

                      Our “government” is divided into “ministries”. Each of these “ministries” “ministers” to particular aspects of “New Zealand Aotearoa’s interests”.

                      In practical terms that means that our government can (unless it’s run by the National Party who are incompetent and very shit at this stuff, because they cleave to drivel not facts) look outwards and inwards at the same time, and not only that, they can prioritise.

                      It’s a small step for us, and impossible for wingnuts.

                • McFlock

                  “queer mafia”?

                  Ah, La Cosa Fan Tutte. I saw a movie about them. Wonderful quotes:

                  “Leave the gun. Take the fabulous pocketsquare”
                  “Luca Brasi sleeps with any rent boy around”
                  “You took Freddie in because the Corleone Family bankrolled your fashion outlet, and the Polari Family on the Coast guaranteed his safety. Now we’re talking business, let’s talk business, luvvy. “

    • Cinny 9.2

      Zorb6, Yes we need to help the homeless, but the don’t let in refugees because we have a homeless problem is an anti refugee, pro wealthy foreign buyers narrative in my books. It’s just spin

      I’d rather let in 150 refugees than 150 foreign home buyers any day of the week. Refugees are not to blame for the housing situation in many NZ towns. Letting in more refugees would not create more homeless people.

      Was under the understanding that refugees spend time at the centre in Auckland where they learn about and adjust to NZ, then housing is found for them. Refugees don’t care that much which town they live in they are just so happy to feel safe. There are towns in NZ where homelessness isn’t a issue compared to say Auckland etc.

      A rental in small town NZ would cost far less to the tax payer than a motel in Auckland.

      And refugees are so grateful, because in a way their lives have been saved by coming here, and as a result they want to be involved and become amazing members of communities, as do their families.

      • solkta 9.2.1

        “become amazing members of communities,”

        Well not all of them. I had a Somali refugee neighbor who was a total self entitled and self absorbed prick. I agree that your statement is generally true, but being a refugee does not automatically make someone a good person or a good citizen.

    • Matthew Whitehead 9.3

      Except the “offer” isn’t being taken up so it’s useless and needs rethinking.

      We have to fill our refugee quote, which is expanding, somehow, so why not start with worthy cases like the Manus refugees?

      As for unemployment, you know that this is barely an extra drop in the bucket, and that governments can multi-task pretty well, what with having at least 61 people in them and all? I’m pretty sure they’ve got some good ideas on unemployment, will make John Key and Bill English look like the absolute hands-off losers they have been, in fact.

      • Antoine 9.3.1

        > I’m pretty sure they’ve got some good ideas on unemployment

        I’m pretty sure they’ve got some bad ones as well (work for the dole anyone?)

        A.

        • Matthew Whitehead 9.3.1.1

          Mate, even work-for-the-dole under Labour and New Zealand First (which won’t happen, it’s just Jones mouthing off IMO) looks better than kicked-off-the-dole under National and ACT.

  10. Chris 10

    Stop all sporting relations with Australia. It’s the only way Australians will understand.

    • james 10.1

      Any other countries that you would like us to stop sporting events with?

      • Chris 10.1.1

        There is, but probably not many where it’d be so effective as when it involves Australia. But apart from reminding you of the old adage that evil prevails when good people do nothing, what I find most entertaining from your question is the idea that for so many people interfering with sporting relations isn’t cricket. I would’ve thought, for so many reasons, that curtailing people’s *right* to sport is by far one of the more preferable options, especially when it’s aimed at Australia.

    • Cinny 10.2

      Nah they won’t care, instead lets move all the government banking out of the Aussie Banks, I’d be so down with that.

      • Chris 10.2.1

        Both then, because no matter what there are a heck of a lot of Australians who live for nothing else but sport. As soon as that’s taken away there’s bound to be at least some who might take the time to ask why it’s happening to them.

        • garibaldi 10.2.1.1

          Chris there are a heck of a lot of NZers who live for nothing else but sport too. They aren’t exactly enlightened people and would be more than upset at your suggestion, taking great delight in blaming that “pretty communist”. I think your scheme would backfire badly.

          • Chris 10.2.1.1.1

            Maybe they’d be enlightened by the boycott, like what happened to lot of pro-tour people in 1981. And we’re only talking about one country. Those who remain unenlightened would still get a whole bunch of sport from everywhere else. And just look what would happen in Australia if a stack of countries did the same thing? We could easily withstand axing one country from our list of sporting opponents, but how would Australia handle losing a whole bunch of them? That would be potent.

      • Actually, that was part of NZ1st’ policy platform. Wonder what’s happening with that. I do hope that Labour are working with them to actually achieve it.

  11. RedLogix 11

    Everyone I speak to here is aware of how contentious and troublesome this issue is. This is one of those problems that literally has no good answers. People smuggling is an ugly, vicious and dangerous business that has no merit whatsoever. Tolerating it amounts to abandoning the integrity of your borders and de-legitimising the legal immigration processes everyone else has to go through.

    Yes Manus Island is a disaster and Turnbull’s govt has handled it badly. But it is a disaster on a small scale compared to virtually all other proximate alternatives.

    The challenge for countries like Australia and NZ, is that literally there are hundreds of millions of people who would like to emigrate here if they could. Some because they are political refugees who clearly need shelter from awful persecution. Most because life here is far better than the poverty ridden shit-holes they live in. Allow 1000 people to arrive illegally, and there really is a million others queuing up behind them.

    No country can tolerate open borders, nor for that matter totally closed ones. Every nation on earth legitimately seeks to control the movement of people and maintain the integrity of it’s citizenship.

    The best solution long term is to reduce or eliminate the reasons why people want to take these desperate journeys. Stop the persecution, eliminate the poverty and corruption. Our collective human failure to achieve this is manifest in the shame that is Manus Island.

    • weka 11.2

      What you just said doesn’t apply to NZ though, we’re too far away. Immigration and refugee needs are two different things. It’s possible to manage the refugee situation without opening borders. I support borders and controlling them, and we need to do much more to help people in other countries to also have good lives.

      And in the meantime there are 600 odd people abandoned in a shitty and unsafe situation. That Australia doesn’t know how to manage its borders is one thing, that it won’t let those refugees who are in acute need come to NZ is unconscionable and requires the international community to condemn the Australian govt in the strongest terms and then to take action.

      • marty mars 11.2.1

        I like this comment because it maintains its positional integrity as well as compassion.

        Yes the amount of border is the issue not whether there should be a border – I hope we can move on from that point within the discussion. Immigration and refugees are seperate issues. We have a group of people who need help. I hope we help them.

      • RedLogix 11.2.2

        You are quite right about the geography. It is only the happy accident of distance that means NZ does not face the exact same issue, we certainly have no grounds to be morally smug about it. There is already plenty of condemnation of Manus Is here in Australia; we don’t need to add our voice to that if we also want to be part of the solution.

        Manus Is has no good solutions in the short term. Aus has sought ways to return or relocate these people to other countries but all attempts have failed. It’s not going to allow them to the Australian mainland period. Letting them go to NZ creates an obvious backdoor entry that will not be acceptable. Put simply, the Australian govt, regardless of whether it’s Turnbull or Shorten running it, will never allow these people to enter. As much as most people here loath Abbott, they all grudgingly concede his policy has stopped the boats.

        I really cannot think of any other good alternatives. Perhaps this really is a case for the UN to step up and find a way to get these 600 people off Manus, safely process them via an existing UN refugee program.

        • weka 11.2.2.1

          “You are quite right about the geography. It is only the happy accident of distance that means NZ does not face the exact same issue, we certainly have no grounds to be morally smug about it.”

          There’s geography, and then there’s policy and values. We’re luck in NZ that for now we have a centre-left govt, so it makes sense to push for NZ to do something useful and expect that might work. If FJK was still PM, we’d be having a different conversation.

          “Letting them go to NZ creates an obvious backdoor entry that will not be acceptable.”

          I don’t see how. It’s not like people arrive on boats and then get sent to NZ. There is a whole process of incarceration, ill treatment, and seriously ill treatment that goes on for years, then the Australian govt abandons you without food, water or security, and then refuses to send you to another country. I wouldn’t call that a doorway so much as a minefield and barbed wire.

          Not sure that the Australia govt should get to decide where the people on Manus go, given it’s not even their country.

          And yes, the UN should step in.

          “There is already plenty of condemnation of Manus Is here in Australia; we don’t need to add our voice to that if we also want to be part of the solution.”

          The point of nation states making statements about other nation states isn’t to be mean to them, it’s to let them know that there are limits to what will be tolerated. IMO we’re at that point with Australia now.

          • Draco T Bastard 11.2.2.1.1

            I don’t see how. It’s not like people arrive on boats and then get sent to NZ.

            They come to NZ, become NZ citizens and then freely go to Australia under our existing agreements.

            It’s probably a massively over-blown fear but it’s one that they do have.

            • Wayne 11.2.2.1.1.1

              What if Australia says no.
              The previous government offered the same deal and the Australian government said no.
              New Zealand is not about to damage the Aussie relationship by doing anything in response.
              They will just put up with it, agreeing to disagree.

              • Don’t see that as a reply to me as I was explaining why Australia didn’t like the deal that the previous government made.

              • tracey

                Yes we wouldnt want australia charging kiwis international fees… refusing them health care and the like… oh wait

              • KJT

                Once we stood up to France over Nuclear weapons.

                Surely we can stand up to Australia, over refugee concentration camps.

            • weka 11.2.2.1.1.2

              Sure but that all takes time, and by then they’re settled in NZ with jobs and friends etc. Plus Australia treated them like shit for all those years before they come to NZ, why would they want to go there? And, by that stage they’re not refugees anymore, they’re NZ citizens. If Oz really want to they can pass a law that prohibits NZ citizens who used to be refugees from being able to live in Oz. Yes, this is getting ridiculous.

              I don’t think it’s a fear, I think they’re being arseholes as part of their general inability to manage their borders humanely.

            • RedLogix 11.2.2.1.1.3

              You are correct DtB, it’s not the absolute numbers who might take that route, but the optics of it. Even if just one Manus Is refugee finished up in Australia via NZ, this would be very badly perceived.

              And if this subsequently prompted just one more illegal boat to leave Indonesia, no matter how tenuous the link or irrational the reasoning, it would become NZ’s fault. We really don’t need that.

              • And I’m pretty sure that we would see more boats leaving in short order with the smugglers promising that the people being shifted will make it to NZ and can move on to Australia from there.

              • David Mac

                Yes, it is Australia’s intention to entirely remove the ‘How about Aussie?’ offer from the smugglers’ list of destinations. A few backdoor into Aussie via NZ and regardless of the numbers or obstacles, smugglers have a newspaper clipping and an Aussie or Kiwi story of luxury freedom to sell again.

                I agree with you Red re: Ultimately we need to help others where they live. I find Roy Beck’s famous gumball stage show convincing.

    • Matthew Whitehead 11.3

      These are refugees, not immigrants, and even if they started as immigrants, arguably they’d be refugees after their treatment on Manus Island, anyway.

      Nobody is arguing for open borders. Just to put these refugees through our existing refugee program, because of the humanitarian disaster caused both by the shutdown of the detention centre and the proposed “resettlement” solution that leaves them in fear of their lives.

      I understand the point about “people smuggling,” but are you really suggesting we should turn away people who actually are refugees? I’d say they should come to NZ if they possibly can, instead of Australia, where we have a reasonable record of making a decision in a timely manner, and will simply fly you home if we don’t think you qualify, rather than lock you up because we’re obliged to say yes to you by law but don’t want to because we’re bigots.

      • I understand the point about “people smuggling,” but are you really suggesting we should turn away people who actually are refugees?

        I’d say that we take what we can.

        I’d say they should come to NZ if they possibly can, instead of Australia, where we have a reasonable record of making a decision in a timely manner, and will simply fly you home if we don’t think you qualify, rather than lock you up because we’re obliged to say yes to you by law but don’t want to because we’re bigots.

        We cannot take all the refugees that will arrive (25000+/year). So, what do we do with them after they get here?

        • Matthew Whitehead 11.3.1.1

          Ideally I’d say given the humanitarian situation in PNG, we take them all even if it exceeds our quota, but I know the government will be under pressure from a lot of directions and would settle for them managaging to take the 150 they’d offered to.

          • Matthew Whitehead 11.3.1.1.1

            Sorry missed that you were talking about the general problem of “too many refugees heading for Australia for NZ to take.” in the second part of your post because I ended up realising I was under time pressure halfway through replying.

            Yes, I agree this would be a problem if we volunteered to take every refugee that ever made it to Australia, but fortunately we don’t have to, especially as Australia is running out of client states willing to run their gulags for refugees. I also expect that even if we do give a plea for more refugees to come to New Zealand as opposed to Australia, we wouldn’t divert more than a small fraction of those arrivals, especially given that it takes more fuel, and is a longer trip to New Zealand than to Australia. I’m not sure we’d even need to further increase our refugee quote beyond Labour’s proposed doubling in order to take any arrivals through people smuggling that actually did make it to New Zealand, tbqh, and we’d probably still have room to take more refugees from other sources than Key’s government did.

            But we can, and should, do more than we are, and that’s simply not arguable. We are legally obligated to do our best to care for refugees under UN treaty, and we aren’t even carrying our weight on that front yet. We already take less people per capita than Australia or the US, and still will even with Labour’s proposed refugee quota changes. The very least we can do is try to find a solution to the Manus problem, and if we’re feeling daring, we could look at finding a way to get New Zealand First or National to support the Greens’ refugee policy, which would offer even more places to refugees through NGOs as well as upscaling the government program.

    • Antoine 11.4

      +1 RL

    • stunned mullet 11.5

      Well said RL.

    • The challenge for countries like Australia and NZ, is that literally there are hundreds of millions of people who would like to emigrate here if they could. Some because they are political refugees who clearly need shelter from awful persecution. Most because life here is far better than the poverty ridden shit-holes they live in. Allow 1000 people to arrive illegally, and there really is a million others queuing up behind them.

      yep. That is the problem I have with all these Goody-two-shoes who seem to think we should just take all refugees that turn up. If we do that though the number of arriving refugees will multiply exponentially.

      The best solution long term is to reduce or eliminate the reasons why people want to take these desperate journeys. Stop the persecution, eliminate the poverty and corruption. Our collective human failure to achieve this is manifest in the shame that is Manus Island.

      QFT

      Unfortunately, getting dictatorial and oppressive governments to act better is, well, a losing proposition.

    • Zorb6 11.7

      well said/explained Redlogix.So many cause celebres for some,and so little time.

  12. greywarshark 12

    What about us dealing with PNG and by-passing Australia? I think PNG wold decide that would be acceptable. Whatever Australia is paying them it isn’t enough to help them with the cost of this intractable problem. They can apply to go to he US or Cambodia. Why not give them the opportunity to come here? If Australia is afraid of them eventually ending up there, tough. They might be just given residency here rather than citizenship and that could become a limiting factor for the Australian border.

    Latest –
    1/11/2017
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/national/manus-island-asylum-seekers-on-move-says-png-military/news-story/cfd0b764e5e0949495fe23d49dfb25ae
    Today, construction workers employed to finish the Ward 1 accommodation centre said they had been told it would take about two months to complete the complex.
    Security guards refused to let media near the site and threatened to confiscate cameras if any photos were taken.

    Mother of five Philomena Sulai who lives almost next door to the half finished centre said she was concerned about security and the fact the land involved was part of a “community block” which was subject to competing claims of ownership….

    During Senate Estimates last month, the Immigration Department said that three housing sites had been set up and rooms were booked at local hotels to deal with any shortfall.
    The Department said the cost of housing the asylum seekers would be about $150 to $250 million.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-41798681
    Monday 30 October 2017
    Refugees at the centre can apply for permanent resettlement in PNG, apply to live in the US or Cambodia, or request a transfer to Australia’s other offshore detention centre in the Pacific nation of Nauru.
    Human Rights Watch has estimated about 770 men – most of whom have been classified as refugees – remain on Manus Island. It say a majority do not want to stay in PNG.

    The Australian government has set up temporary accommodation on Manus Island, but hundreds of detainees are refusing to move there, citing fears for their safety. The detainees have been attacked by locals, rights groups say.

    In a statement, PNG Immigration Minister Petrus Thomas said his nation was under no obligation to support:
    Refugees who had declined to settle permanently in PNG;
    Asylum seekers whose refugee claims had been rejected.
    Mr Thomas said “these two cohorts … remain the responsibility of Australia to pursue third-country options and liaise with respective governments of the non-refugees for their voluntary or involuntary return”.

    “There must be a review of the arrangement to clarify these international obligations and officials will be discussing the details of a revised agreement in the next few days,” he said.

    Refugees have suggested coming to NZ. May 2017
    http://www.pireport.org/articles/2017/05/25/detainees-manus-seek-asylum-new-zealand-calling-png-unsafe

    John Key in 2016
    http://www.radionz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/302950/nz-unlikely-to-approach-png-to-take-manus-refugees

    • Matthew Whitehead 12.1

      Dealing with PNG directly is an excellent idea (iirc I mentioned it in the main post?) and I hope that Peters, Lees-Galloway, and Ardern are seriously considering it, although it may involve convincing the refugees to accept resettlement to Papua New Guinea temporarily before we offer them while we arrange to pick them up, or us providing security to PNG before the refugees can leave the compound.

  13. McFlock 13

    Fuck it, sending a ship to pick ’em up is a bloody good idea. At the very least, it makes it obvious we’re willing to help and the aussies are dicks – “look, we’ll take them, the boat is right there!”.

    Make it additional to our regular refugee quota.

    Cut migration by 700 if it’s such a big deal.

    We could send ships to Muroroa Atoll, we can send them to PNG.

    • DoublePlusGood 13.1

      We could always send a boat to go an pick them up from Manus Island….and then sail it straight to Australia and unload them.

      • McFlock 13.1.1

        out of the frying pan into the fire? That’d be more cruel than leaving them on Manus.

    • Matthew Whitehead 13.2

      Sending a ship would at least require consent from PNG I would expect, so it’s essentially part of the option discussed directly above your comment at (12).

      • McFlock 13.2.1

        Well, we wouldn’t need explicit consent to park it outside territorial waters. It would provide a bit of public shaming for either PNG or Aus to sort that shit out, or take up our offer.

        • Matthew Whitehead 13.2.1.1

          Well, that’s generally interpreted as a very hostile act, especially as PNG would probably welcome our help with a peaceful resolution to this situation. It might be a possibility if for some reason they don’t want to work together. *shrug*

          • McFlock 13.2.1.1.1

            Call it an impromptu goodwill visit on its way to Singapore, but seeing as we’re in the area – we’ll park up in case you need a hand…

          • Sam aka clump 13.2.1.1.2

            The people on Manus Island are very intolerant to outsiders. Tony Abott had to give them millions in aid and even still they want the refugees gone. The entire work force had to be flown in. Everything from labourers, plumbers, aircon techs, electricians. That’s before you start looking at the people responsible for the asylums. And I’m saying they ran 2 or 3 flights a day some times more, they even chartered flight for just one detainee. All back to mainland Austraila. And that’s the reason the Australian immigration control budget blew out from $100 million to 1 billion a year, some times more. $10 billion some times. So I think there is significant scoop for cooler heads.

  14. greywarshark 14

    I thought this was a good quote for this Manus Island situation.

    Why do we love the idea that people might be secretly working together to control and organise the world?
    Because we don’t like to face the fact that our world runs on a combination of
    chaos, incompetence and confusion.
    Jonathan Cainer

  15. Matthew Whitehead 15

    By the way, for those of you who didn’t attend the impromptu picnic event with Golriz, she is holding a vigil for the Manus refugees outside Parliament at 5pm if you’re in Wellington and interested. Know it’s short notice, sorry, only just got back home. 🙂

  16. KJT 16

    Anyone who objects to refugees, should stop supporting Governments that bomb their countries.

  17. Richard McGrath 17

    Go for it then, guys! Everybody here take a Manus Island refugee into your home and act as a sponsor for them until they have been taxpaying New Zealanders for a year.

    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1

      What’s the matter? Will closing the concentration camps mean you’ll be out of a job?

  18. Redge 18

    If these so called refugees wanted to come to Australia then they should have done it the correct way.

    Instead they try to circumvent the rules to skip ahead.

    Send them back to where they came from, we certainly dont want or need them here in NZ.

Recent Comments

Recent Posts

  • Is Simon’s Smile Sustainable?
    A Sustainable Proposition: With as much as 18 percent of the electorate declaring itself “undecided” about who to vote for, there is obviously plenty of space for a party like former Green Party member, Vernon Tava's, about-to-be-launched "Sustainable NZ Party" to move into. The most hospitable political territory for such ...
    7 mins ago
  • What the actual Hell?
    Keir Starmer has hinted that Labour might vote in favour of the Johnson government's shoddy deal, with the proviso that a second referendum is attached:Speaking to BBC One’s The Andrew Marr Show, he said: “We will see what that looks like but it makes sense to say that by whatever ...
    4 hours ago
  • Hard News: Dealer’s Choice, an oral history from Planet 1994
    In 1994, I was the editor for an issue of Planet magazine focused on cannabis, its culture and the prospects for the end of its prohibition. Part of that issue was an interview with 'Ringo', an experienced cannabis dealer.I recently posted my essay from that issue, and I figured it ...
    2 days ago
  • The invasion of women’s sports by men: some facts
    Dr Helen Waite, sports sociologist and former elite athlete, on the invasion of women’s sport by men and the anti-scientific and misogynist ideology used to rationalise it.   ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 days ago
  • Remainers starting to sound like fascists
    As Brexit comes to a grisly conclusion (perhaps) people on all sides are saying intemperate and uwise things.  Some, like the Daly Mail, have been doing it for years.People as normally level headed as Jon Lansman are calling for automatic deselection of MPs who vote against a (likely) Labour three ...
    2 days ago
  • Labour MPs supporting Johnson’s turd-sandwich deal?
    I find this unbelievable:
    I've got one source saying more Labour MPs than expected are mulling whether to vote for the deal - including names who were not on the letter to Juncker and Tusk— Emilio Casalicchio (@e_casalicchio) 17 October 2019 I've compiled a list of possible reasons why Labour ...
    3 days ago
  • Why do we need control orders again?
    On Wednesday, the government was loudly telling us that it needed to legislate to allow it to impose "control orders" - effectively a parole regime, but imposed without charge, prosecution, conviction or real evidence - on suspected terrorists because they couldn't be prosecuted for their supposed crimes. Today, it turns ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Bullshitting the Minister
    On Monday, the Hit and Run inquiry heard from NZDF's former director of special operations, who claimed that the defence Minister knew everything about the Operation Burnham raid. Today, the inquiry heard from that (former) Minister - and it turns out that he didn't know nearly as much as NZDF ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • Speaker: Extinction Rebellion is not a cult (but ecstasy for the people)
    Yoga gurus and cult leaders – I’ve seen a few. Two weeks ago, I unknowingly joined an alleged new-age cult at the Kāpiti coast, together with a giant kraken and some neatly dressed pensioners who would make any book club proud.They were among the two hundred people of all ages ...
    3 days ago
  • We need to bring the police under control
    The last decade has seen a trend of increasing weapons availability to police. Assault rifles. Tasers on every hip. Guns in cars. And following the march 15 massacre, pistols on every hip, all over the country. At the same time, its also seen an increase in the abuse of force: ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    3 days ago
  • If you can’t measure it, does it exist?
    In the last couple of weeks, I’ve been busy preparing for our summer paper on Science Communication. Looking for something amusing about ‘risk’ in science, I came across this neat xkcd.com cartoon about why so many people come knocking on my door (or phoning me, or emailing me) desperately wanting ...
    SciBlogsBy Marcus Wilson
    3 days ago
  • Swinson’s swithering
    Jo Swinson is doing even worse at this Being Sensible lark that I'd thought.  I've just become aware of the following utterance
    .@KayBurley presses Lib Dem leader @joswinson on whether she would agree to a #Brexit deal 'no matter how bad a deal it is' as long as it had ...
    4 days ago
  • Women’s rights, trans ideology and Gramsci’s morbid symptoms
    by John Edmundson The International Socialist Organisation (ISO) have recently reposted a February article, by Romany Tasker-Poland, explaining ISO’s position in the “trans rights” debate.  It is available on their website and on their Facebook Page.  The article sets out to explain why “socialists support trans rights”.  It reads more ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    4 days ago
  • We need to take guns off police
    Today's IPCA report of police criminality: a police officer unalwfully tasered a fleeing suspect who posed no threat to anyone:The police watchdog has found an officer unlawfully tasered an Auckland man who broke his ankle jumping off a balcony to escape arrest. [...] To avoid arrest, the man jumped over ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • “Bringing kindness back”
    "Auckland City Mission: 10% of Kiwis experiencing food insecurity", RNZ, 16 October 2019:About half a million people are experiencing food insecurity, according to new research from the Auckland City Mission. Food insecurity, or food poverty, is defined as not having enough appropriate food. The City Mission said over the last ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Press Release: “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance b...
    Media Statement for Immediate Release 16th October 2019 “Fake News” from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers Despite comments from Auckland City Council CCOs Board Chairs re pay and performance bonuses for top managers—Herald Newspaper Tuesday Oct 15th–there is very little evidence ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    4 days ago
  • Ever-So-Slightly Bonkers: Simon Bridges Plays To His Base.
    Would You Buy A Used Propaganda Video From This Man? Bridges and the National Party’s strategists have discovered that the ideas and attitudes considered acceptable by today’s editors and journalists are no longer enforceable. The rise and rise of the Internet and the social media platforms it spawned means that ...
    4 days ago
  • Asking for food
    There is plenty of evidence of the way the business mentality has permeated every level of society since the recrudescence of market liberalism 35 years ago. You only need to think of how citizens in need of help from their government, their state, their country, are now routinely described as ...
    Opposable ThumbBy Unknown
    4 days ago
  • Forty years of change in the jobs Kiwi do and the places they call home
    John MacCormick Over the last 40 years, New Zealanders – and people in other countries – have experienced big changes in the jobs they do and where they live and work. These changes include: a decline in manufacturing jobs an increase in jobs in ‘information-intensive’ industries (which are better paid ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    4 days ago
  • Protecting Fresh Waterways in Aotearoa/NZ: The Strong Public Health Case
    Nick Wilson, Leah Grout, Mereana Wilson, Anja Mizdrak, Phil Shoemack, Michael Baker Protecting waterways has the benefits of: (1) protecting water from hazardous microbes; (2) minimising cancer risk and other problems from nitrates in water; (3) avoiding algal blooms that are hazardous to health; (4) protecting mahinga kai uses (cultural ...
    SciBlogsBy Public Health Expert
    4 days ago
  • Massey University triggered to rebrand
    by The Council of Disobedient Women In a press release today Massey University announced it has decided to rebrand and reorientate after struggling to be a University for grown-ups. For some time the University has wanted to be a safe play space for wee-woke-misogynists who have been really badly triggered ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    5 days ago
  • Swinson backing calls for a second referendum (again)
    After a brief dalliance with 'hard Revoke' it looks like the Lib Dems are changing ground on on Brexit, with leader Jo Swinson reverting to calling for a second referendum on Johnson's deal.The party has tabled an amendment to the Queen’s speech requesting that any deal brought back from Brussels ...
    5 days ago
  • An odious bill
    The government has decided that someone has done Something Bad. But despite their belief, there seems to be no evidence that they have actually broken the law. So the government's solution is to pass a retrospective law allowing them to be punished anyway, on a lower standard of proof. If ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • National is now the party of climate arson
    So, Judith Collins has done a Facebook rant about climate change, peddling the same shit National has been shovelling for the past twenty years: the impacts are overstated, there's no need to do anything about it, and its too hard anyway (oh, and its so unfair that people who peddle ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • The environmental footprint of electric versus fossil car
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz There is a lot of discussion on the benefits of ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    5 days ago
  • “Manifest” by Andrew Bird – A Song For The Times.
    I came across this song quite by accident. If it isn't one of Greta Thunberg's favourites - it should be.Video courtesy of YouTube.This post is exclusive to Bowalley Road. ...
    5 days ago
  • Passing the buck
    Last month, NZDF's shoddy coverup of what it knew about civilian casualties in Operation Burnham began to fall apart, with the revelation that a report on the matter, which NZDF claimed not to have, had been sitting in an NZDF safe for the past nine years. Yesterday, the man responsible ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • India a major player in Earth observation satellites
    While many imagine that countries like the USA and Europe dominate space activities, in fact India is now a major player on this stage. It launches satellites for its own purposes and also commercially, and has constellations orbiting our planet and returning data of vital importance to that nation in ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    6 days ago
  • The rot at the top (2).
    Thanks to a report from the Acting Inspector General of Intelligence and Security following a complaint by Nicky Hager, we have come to find out that the SIS illegally spied on Mr. Hager on behalf of the NZDF after publication of Hager’s 2011 book, Other People’s Wars. The NZDF justified ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    6 days ago
  • Common misconceptions about “Global Warming”
    COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING MYTH 1: Global temperatures are rising at a rapid, unprecedented rate. FACT: The HadCRUT3 surface temperature index, produced by the Hadley Centre of the UK Met Office and the Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia, shows warming to 1878, cooling to 1911, ...
    An average kiwiBy admin@averagekiwi.com
    6 days ago
  • A climate of tyranny
    For the past week, Extinction Rebellion has been peacefully protesting in London to demand action on climate change. The British government's response? Ban their protests:Police have banned Extinction Rebellion protests from continuing anywhere in London, as they moved in almost without warning to clear protesters who remained at the movement’s ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • Collins crushes climate
    An essay by Judith Collins MP reported on Carbon News yesterday seems to show an alarming shift in attitude within the National Party. Collins argues against the Zero Carbon Bill, the Paris Agreement, and downplays the magnitude of climate impacts. The Paris Agreement was adopted in December 2015 and ratified ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert McLachlan
    6 days ago
  • More disappointment
    When they were running for election, Labour promised to overhaul the Employment Relations Act and introduce fair pay agreements to set basic pay and conditions on an industry level, preventing bad employers from undercutting good ones. They followed this up by establishing a working group, which reported back in January ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago
  • What do these mother-child studies really say about fluoridation?
    A list of indicators of bad science – many of these are found in articles promoted by anti-fluoride activists. Anti-fluoride activists have been pouring money into a scaremongering campaign warning pregnant women not to drink fluoridated water. They claim fluoride will lower the IQ of their future child. Fluoride ...
    6 days ago
  • Losing Labour’s Mills-Tone.
    Nothing Left To Say: Labour's pollster, Stephen Mills, remains swaddled-up in the comforting myths of the 1980s. As if the experience of Roger Douglas’s genuinely radical post-Muldoon policy agenda was literally a once-in-a-lifetime thing – as much as the party could possibly absorb for at least the next 50 years.MEMO ...
    6 days ago
  • Speaker: Disability and the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Historical Abuse
    The Royal Commission on abuse in care is very significant for the disability community. For many decades last century, thousands of disabled children, and adults who managed to survive, were locked away from families and communities. This was not for anything they had done, but for the perceived threat their ...
    6 days ago
  • Spain is not a democracy
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • UK Conservatives hate democracy
    With an unfair voting system, uneven electorates and an un-elected upper house, the UK's "democracy" is barely worthy of the name. But now the government wants to make it worse:The government has been accused of suppressing voters’ rights with the potential disenfranchisement of tens of thousands of people after plans ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    7 days ago
  • What is wrong with our building industry?
    Back in the 90's and early 2000's, the building industry was building leaky homes which should never have been granted consent. Now it turns out they've been building dodgy office blocks as well:New imaging technology has revealed hundreds of major buildings nationwide have defective or missing concrete or reinforcing steel. ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Local bodies
    Local body election results were released over the weekend, to joy or despair depending on where you live. In Auckland, Phil Goff trounced John Tamihere, who is muttering darkly about running for Parliament again (but which party would want him?) Wellington is now a wholly-owned subsidiary of Weta Workshop, except ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • A future of government
      How could government evolve over the next decades? Reports of democracy’s imminent demise are greatly exaggerated.  However, satisfaction with political systems in many countries is low, so there is much to do for governments of all political stripes to improve relevance and trust. Digital technologies are seen as one ...
    SciBlogsBy Robert Hickson
    1 week ago
  • Speaker: Catalonia, interrupted
    Two years have now gone by since the Friday afternoon when my university-student son and I headed out of our Barcelona flat to a nearby primary school, designated as a polling station for the vote that was to be held the following Sunday: the referendum on Catalonia’s independence from Spain ...
    1 week ago
  • Sage Decisions Unwisely Over-Ruled.
    Overruled: The joint decision of Finance Minister, Grant Robertson (Labour) and his Associate Minister, David Parker (Labour) arguably the two most powerful ministers in Jacinda Ardern’s government, to grant OceanaGold the consents which Land Information Minister, Eugenie Sage (Greens) had earlier denied them, offers bitter proof of how hard fighting ...
    1 week ago
  • Government may ban voting in effort to get more people to do it
    More than double the number of people who will vote in this year’s local body elections have tried marijuana or urinated somewhere they shouldn’t have. As local elections look set for the lowest turnout in decades, with many regions falling well short of 40%, the Government is exploring a number ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    1 week ago
  • Woman: Deleted.
    A Statement on Abortion Law Reform by the Council of Disobedient Women   On the eve of bringing an end to antiquated, anti-women abortion laws Green MP Jan Logie intends to write women out of the Bill. With a stroke of the pen, the woke are aiming for total erasure ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    1 week ago
  • The Hollowest of Men Ride Again… SURPRISE!
    Musings continue apace about “the experienced businessman!” soon to be taking up a National Party MP position. Or to be more accurate, being parachuted into a seat to shut down their former MP Jamie-Lee Ross, who despite his own shortcomings shed at least some more light on the inner workings ...
    exhALANtBy exhalantblog
    1 week ago
  • Barbaric
    The Ugandan government wants to murder gay people:Uganda has announced plans to impose the death penalty on homosexuals. The bill, colloquially known as “Kill the Gays” in Uganda, was nullified five years ago on a technicality, but the government said on Thursday it plans to resurrect it within weeks. The ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    1 week ago
  • Is this study legit? 5 questions to ask when reading news stories of medical research
    Hassan Vally, La Trobe University Who doesn’t want to know if drinking that second or third cup of coffee a day will improve your memory, or if sleeping too much increases your risk of a heart attack? We’re invested in staying healthy and many of us are interested in reading ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    1 week ago
  • Fighting Monsters.
    Freedom Of Speech? The Säuberung (cleansing by fire) was the work of the German Student Union which, on 10 May 1933, under the watchful eye of the Nazi Reichminister for Propaganda, Joseph Goebbels, consigned 25,000 books to the flames in a ritual exorcism of “un-German thought”. According to the logic of the ...
    1 week ago
  • The next wave of kaupapa Māori politics: its constitutional, it must be.
      “There can be no such thing as kaupapa Māori political parties or politics in Aotearoa” (Willie Jackson, Labour Party (2017). Māori TV, General/List Election Special) I begin with that claim because at the time, I was confounded at first that it fell out of Willie Jackson’s mouth, and then ...
    EllipsisterBy Ellipsister
    2 weeks ago
  • Night lights of NZ from orbit
    New Zealand has prided itself for decades with regard to its lack of pollution, and all will be aware that the ‘100% Pure New Zealand‘ meme is under threat through land, water and air pollution of various causes. There is another type of contamination that the country also faces: light ...
    SciBlogsBy Duncan Steel
    2 weeks ago
  • Reporters deliver uplifting news to fleeing Japanese residents: they won’t miss any rugby
    New Zealand’s media is doing its part in Japan, reassuring those in the path of the storm that they won’t miss any rugby while away from their flooded homes. New Zealand sports reporters stationed in Japan for the Rugby World Cup have had the rare and heartwarming opportunity to inform ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government in contentious discussions about whether to put surplus on red or black
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones is the only Cabinet member in favour of putting it all on green. As Finance Minister Grant Robertson finds himself with an enormous $7.5 billion surplus, the Government has begun intense, at times contentious conversations about whether to put the money on red or black at ...
    The CivilianBy admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Jordanian teachers’ successful strike has lessons for here
    by Susanne Kemp At the start of September close to 100,000 school teachers went on strike in Jordan.  They demanded a 50% pay rise.  A pay rise actually agreed to by the regime back in 2014. In early October, however, in the face of government repression and threats, the teachers’ ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Why some people still think climate change isn’t real
    Climate Explained is a collaboration between The Conversation, Stuff and the New Zealand Science Media Centre to answer your questions about climate change. If you have a question you’d like an expert to answer, please send it to climate.change@stuff.co.nz Why do people still think climate change isn’t real? David ...
    SciBlogsBy Guest Author
    2 weeks ago
  • The SIS unlawfully spied on Nicky Hager
    Back in 2011, journalist Nicky Hager published Other People's Wars, an expose on NZDF's activities over the previous decade of the "war on terror". NZDF didn't like this, and especially didn't like the fact that it was base don leaks from their own. So, they had the SIS investigate him ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • October 2019 – Newsletter
    https://mailchi.mp/7d9133add053/closing-the-gap-october-2019-newsletter ...
    Closing the GapBy Tracey Sharp
    2 weeks ago
  • And they wonder why we think they’re environmental vandals…
    The Zero Carbon Bill is due back from select committee in two weeks, and will likely pass its final stages in November. So naturally, farmers are planning a hate-march against it. But they're not just demanding lower methane targets so they can keep on destroying the planet; they're also demanding ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Climate Change: Paying the price in California
    Last year, California burned. This year, to stop it happening again (or rather, to stop themselves from being found liable if it happens again), Pacific Gas and Electric is cutting power to half the state for a week:Schools are closed. Traffic lights down. Tunnels dark. Businesses unopened. Hospitals running on ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Let’s Hear It For Up-Close-And-Personal, Hard-Copy Democracy!
    The Best Way: Missing from the on-line voting debate is any reference to the voting system that produces turn-out figures ranging from 77 to 93 percent of registered voters. The voting system used to collect and count the votes cast in our parliamentary elections. The system that involves citizens making ...
    2 weeks ago
  • 10/10: World Day Against the Death Penalty
    Today, October 10, is the world day against the death penalty. Out of 195 UN member states, 84 still permit capital punishment. Today is the day we work to change that. This year's theme is children. Having a parent sentenced to death or executed causes long-term trauma and stigmatization which ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Talking Freer Lives: a Marxist gender-critical perspective from Australia
    Among the great new bunch of political friends we have been making recently is the excellent Australian-based Marxist gender-critical site, Freer Lives.  So we asked the comrade who set up that blog to write something for Redline on the blog, himself, his analysis of the rise of gender politics and ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Government spin accepted by union leadership
    by Don Franks  The Auckland City Mission is struggling with a 40 percent increase in demand for food parcels this year. A total of 23,020 were needed by June. Last month Missioner Chris Farrelly told the Herald the “cupboards are bare” and without an emergency food drive, he can’t see ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Forbidden Thoughts
    by The Council of Disobedient Women   Massey Wellington Student Association had a sit-in today. Imagine a sit-in. On a campus. Against a women’s rights meeting. Did the ’60s really happen or did we fucking dream it? They gathered in the student square, an echo chamber. Sitting on soft pillows ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • Much love to my loyal Ukrainian readership
    For some reasons, my post about the mystery message from inside the Downing Street bunker seemed to catch people's attention.  Quite a lot of hits from NZ (unsurprisingly) and the USA (a bit more puzzlingly, but hi there, USAians!!) and 76 views from the Ukraine.I've celebrated my Ukrainian readers in ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Another day of bonkers GNUmours (again, sorry)
    First, almost a score of Labour MPs seem to have sent a letter to the EU basically begging them to accept a deal - any deal - just so Britain can get the Heck on with Brexiting instead of being trapped in limbo:
    To avoid no deal, deliver on the ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Labour vs working class immigrants – again!
    by Phil Duncan In 2016 the National-led government suspended the Parent Visa Category, through which migrants were able to bring their parents into New Zealand.  Since then over 5,700 people have been in immigration limbo, stuck on the visa wait list. Labour is now bringing back the scheme.  Well, sort ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Speak Up for Women press statement: on Massey University and Feminism 2020
    The following was released yesterday (Tues, October 8) by the women’s liberation organisation Speak Up for Women. On 23 September Speak Up For Women announced that we would be holding an event at the Massey University Theaterette in Wellington. The event is called Feminism 2020. The intention of the event ...
    RedlineBy Admin
    2 weeks ago
  • Farmers support dirty rivers
    The government is currently consulting on plans to improve freshwater quality. So naturally, farmers oppose it:South Taranaki farmers are preparing to fight proposed national freshwater changes that some fear will bankrupt them. The Government's proposed National Environment Standard on Freshwater Management, released in September, rated the Waingongoro River as one ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • No-one cares about local government
    Yesterday was the last day for (reliably) posting your vote away in local body elections. Turnouts are mostly much lower than the equivalent time last year (Palmerston North is down 2.3%), and so naturally people are pushing their online-voting snake oil again. Because the online census worked so well, lets ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • The political ghosts of eugenics may matter more than the genetic
    This essay, on the political legacy of the eugenics movement, by Kenan Malik was originally published in the Observer on 6 October 2019, under the headline ‘The spirit of eugenics is still with us, as immigrants know to their cost’. Birth control. Intelligence tests. Town planning. Immigration controls. It’s striking how ...
    RedlineBy Daphna
    2 weeks ago
  • “Surplus” again
    Another year, and the government has announced another enormous government "surplus". And just like last year, its nothing of the sort. When we have people homeless and sick and hungry, when we have schools and hospitals still falling down, when we have underpaid public servants and infrastucture unmaintained or unbuilt, ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    2 weeks ago
  • Inside the Downing Street bunker
    James Forsyth at The Spectator (I know, I know) has tapped one of his contacts inside Number Ten for an insight into the Johnson administration's thinking and strategy.It is fascinating, unsettling and quite, quite mad.  Some key points:Negotiations have stalled and the Johnson administration are keen to blame the EU: ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Taking Control Of The Nation’s Story.
    Fatal Contact: With the arrival of captain James Cook in October 1769, the islands of what would become New Zealand ceased to be the preserve of Polynesian navigators and settlers and became a part of both the world’s map and the world’s history.THE MAORI NATIONALIST assault upon the historical meaning ...
    2 weeks ago
  • Are GNUs extinct?
    Another round of tactical talks about forming a Government of National Unity have come to nothing with the Liberal Democrats still refusing countenance putting Jeremy Corbyn into Downing Street:Opposition talks on Monday made little headway over when to try and vote down Boris Johnson's government and who might succeed him as ...
    2 weeks ago

  • Government announces 27 percent increase in Trades Academy places
    Two secondary-school initiatives are being expanded as part of the Government’s plan to see more young New Zealanders take up a trade to help close the skills gap.   This includes the largest single increase in Trades Academy places in recent years. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Education Minister Chris ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 hour ago
  • Methane reducing cattle feed one step closer
    The Government today announced its support for a project that could substantially reduce agricultural greenhouse gas emissions from cattle. The announcement was made as part of Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s and Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor’s visit to Nelson’s Cawthron Aquaculture Park. The Cawthron Institute will receive $100,000 from the Government’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Bill to refresh superannuation system passes first reading
    Social Development Minister Carmel Sepuloni has welcomed the first reading of the New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension Legislation Amendment Bill. “Every New Zealander has a stake in New Zealand Superannuation and Veteran’s Pension,” says Carmel Sepuloni. “They are our most common form of social assistance – nearly 800,000 New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Government announces next steps in fight against measles
    Babies in Auckland aged six months and over can receive a free vaccination and children will all have access to vaccines, Associate Minister of Health Julie Anne Genter announced today at Papatoetoe High School.   The move comes as part of Government efforts to step up the fight against measles. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Pacific Futures: Connections, Identity...
    ***Check against delivery*** Good morning. It is a pleasure to be here, and to have the honour of opening this important conference on behalf of the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. Let us take the opportunity to acknowledge all the people who have helped make today possible, including our special ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Police trial new response to high risk events
    Police Minister Stuart Nash says the safety of frontline officers and members of the public will be the focus of a new trial of specialist Police response teams in three of our largest urban centres. Police have this morning released details of an initiative to be trialled in Counties Manukau, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • New awards celebrate fisheries sustainability
    The Minister of Fisheries is calling for entries for a new public award to celebrate innovation in our seafood sector. “I have established the Seafood Sustainability Awards to recognise and celebrate those throughout industry, tangata whenua and communities who demonstrate outstanding dedication and innovation towards the sustainability of New Zealand’s ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • More progress for women and we can do more
    Minister for Women Julie Anne Genter welcomes leaders in the private sector taking action on closing their gender pay gaps to ensure a fairer workplace for all New Zealanders. Ms Genter today launched a new report, Addressing the gender pay gap and driving women’s representation in senior leadership, from the Champions for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Proposals to curb environmental damage help our coasts and the oceans
    Government Ministers today welcomed the release of a marine environment report highlighting the four key issues affecting our oceans, estuaries and coastlines.  The release underlines the importance of government proposals to combat climate pollution, ensure clean freshwater, protect biodiversity, make land use more sustainable, and reduce waste and plastic.    Environment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New mental health facility for Waikato
    The Government has approved funding for a new acute mental health facility for Waikato which will provide better care and support to people with mental health and addiction issues. Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and Health Minister Dr David Clark announced the $100 million project to replace the aging Henry Rongomau ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • 500 new te reo Māori champions in our classrooms
    The Government is making progress on its goal to integrate te reo Māori into education by 2025, with over 500 teachers and support staff already graduating from Te Ahu o te Reo Māori,  Associate Education Minister Kelvin Davis announced today. Kelvin Davis made the announcement at an awards ceremony in Waikanae today, for ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister James Shaw welcomes 2018 Census first release
    Statistics Minister James Shaw has welcomed the first release of 2018 Census data. The first release of data today, 23 September, includes key data on population, regional growth, the number of homes and the size of different ethnic groups in New Zealand. Data from the 2018 Census will support the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Driving transparency, ethics and accountability in government use of algorithms
    Minister for Statistics James Shaw today announced a public consultation on a proposed algorithm charter for government agencies. The charter has been developed by the Government Chief Data Steward in response to growing calls for more transparency in government use of data. Computer algorithms – procedures or formulas for solving ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • New Zealand and the Netherlands working together on climate change
    Agriculture Minister Damien O’Connor, Climate Change Minister James Shaw and visiting Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte co-hosted a business roundtable in Auckland this morning focused on working together to address climate change.  “The Netherlands is an important partner for New Zealand. We share a strong agricultural history. Sustainable agribusiness and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Protecting fairness for workers and businesses
    The Government is taking action to build an inclusive economy where more of us receive our fair share at work and businesses can compete on great products and services, not undercutting wages and conditions, Immigration and Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Iain Lees-Galloway says. Two consultations launched today seek feedback ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Indigenous Freshwater Fish Bill Passes
    The future for New Zealand’s threatened indigenous freshwater fish looks brighter with the passing of the Conservation (Indigenous Freshwater Fish) Amendment Bill in Parliament today said Minister of Conservation, Eugenie Sage. “Until now, our freshwater fish legislation has been 20 years out of date. We have lacked effective tools to ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Kiwis to take part in world’s biggest earthquake drill
    At 1.30pm tomorrow, hundreds of thousands of Kiwis will join about 65 million people around the globe in ShakeOut, the world’s biggest earthquake drill. The annual drill is to remind people of the right action to take during an earthquake which is to Drop, Cover, Hold, and to practise their ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Rising wages and low inflation supporting Kiwis
    Kiwis are benefiting from higher wage growth and low inflation under the Coalition Government. Stats NZ data out today shows the rise in the cost of living remains low, as annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation fell to 1.5% in September from 1.7% in June. “The low inflation comes as ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ economy strong amid global headwinds
    New Zealand’s economic strength and resilience has been recognised in a major update on the state of the global economy. The IMF’s latest World Economic Outlook released overnight shows a reduced global growth forecast over the next two years as issues like the US-China trade war and Brexit take hold. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Keeping New Zealanders safer with better counter-terrorism laws
    Justice Minister Andrew Little has today introduced a new Bill to prevent terrorism and support the de-radicalisation of New Zealanders returning from overseas. The Terrorism Suppression (Control Orders) Bill gives the New Zealand Police the ability to apply to the High Court to impose control orders on New Zealanders who ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Improved succession and dispute resolution core of Ture Whenua changes
    A Bill that proposes targeted changes to simplify the processes for Māori land owners when engaging with the Māori Land Court has had its First Reading today. “The approach taken by the Government is to ensure that the protection of Māori land remains a priority as we seek to improve ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Speech to CTU Biennial Conference
    Let me first thank all the new unionists and members in the room. There is nothing more important to improving people’s working lives than people making the decision to care, to get on board and help, to take up the reins and get involved. Congratulations to you. You bring the ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Minister ensures continued Whenuapai flight operations
    Minister of Defence Ron Mark has signed a certificate exempting the activity of engine testing at Whenuapai Airbase from the Resource Management Act 1991. The Act gives the Minister of Defence the power to exempt activities for the purposes of national security.  The certificate will mean the recent Environment Court ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • NZ joins Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson has announced New Zealand will join the Coalition of Finance Ministers for Climate Action while attending APEC meetings in Chile. The objective of the 39 member Coalition is to share information and promote action to tackle climate change. It was formed in April this year, in ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Lyttelton Parking
    Feedback sought– Lyttelton commercial zone parking  The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal to remove on-site car parking requirements for new developments in the Lyttelton commercial zone.  The proposal, by Christchurch City Council, asks that powers under section 71 of the Greater ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Feedback Sought – Section 71 – Hagley Oval
    Hon Minister Poto Williams Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration   MEDIA STATEMENT       Tuesday 15 October 2019 Feedback sought – Hagley Oval The Associate Minister for Greater Christchurch Regeneration, Poto Williams, is seeking feedback on a proposal about Hagley Oval. The proposal was developed by Regenerate Christchurch ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • CTU speech – DPM
    Ladies and gentlemen, NZCTU President Richard Wagstaff, members of respective unions – thank you for the invitation to speak to you today. This might be preaching to the choir, but the importance of trade unions in New Zealand’s historical arch is difficult to understate. And it is my belief that ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Police Association Annual Conference
    "Let’s start by acknowledging that it has been a huge year. " Police Association Annual Conference James Cook Grand Chancellor Hotel Wellington Nau mai, haere mai. Tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, ka nui te mihi, ki a koutou katoa. President of the Police Association, Chris Cahill; Members of the Association and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand announces a further P-3 deployment in support of UN sanctions
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters and Minister of Defence Ron Mark have announced the New Zealand Government’s decision to again deploy a Royal New Zealand Air Force P-3K2 (P-3) maritime patrol aircraft to support the implementation of United Nations Security Council (UNSC) resolutions imposing sanctions against North Korea. New ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • New Zealand deeply concerned at developments in north-east Syria
    Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters says New Zealand continues to have serious concerns for peace and stability in north-east Syria. “Recent reports that hundreds of ISIS-affiliated families have fled from a camp are deeply concerning from a humanitarian and security perspective”, Mr Peters says. “While we acknowledge Turkey’s domestic security ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Government on high alert for stink bugs
    Biosecurity Minister Damien O’Connor is warning travelling Kiwis to be vigilant as the high-season for the crop-eating brown marmorated stink bug (BMSB) is under way. “We’re on high alert to stop BMSB arriving in NZ. The high season runs until April 30 and we’ve strengthened our measures to stop stink ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago
  • Better protections for students in halls of residence
    The Government is moving swiftly to change the law to improve the welfare and pastoral care of students living in university halls of residence and other tertiary hostels. Cabinet has agreed to several changes, including creating a new mandatory Code of Practice that sets out the duty of pastoral care ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • New trapping guide for community and expert trappers alike
    The Minister for Conservation Eugenie Sage has launched a new comprehensive trapping guide for community trappers to help them protect our native birds, plants and other wildlife, at Zealandia in Wellington today. ‘A practical guide to trapping’, has been developed by the Department of Conservation (DOC), and was launched during ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    7 days ago
  • Widening Access to Contraceptives Welcomed
    Associate Health Minister Julie Anne Genter welcomes PHARMAC’s move to improve access to long-acting reversible contraception (LARCs). PHARMAC has today announced it will fund the full cost of Mirena and Jaydess for anyone seeking long term contraception, lifting previous restrictions on access to Mirena. “I welcome women having greater choices ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major upgrade for Taranaki Base Hospital
    The Government has approved the next stage of a major redevelopment of Taranaki Base Hospital, which will deliver new and improved facilities for patients. Health Minister Dr David Clark has announced details of a $300 million dollar project to build a new East Wing at the New Plymouth hospital. It ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Extra support for rural families
    Extra funding will allow Rural Support Trusts to help farming families, says Minister for Rural Communities and Agriculture Damien O’Connor. “I know that rural families are worried about some of the challenges facing them, including the ongoing uncertainty created by the Mycoplasma bovis outbreak. “Those concerns sit alongside ongoing worries ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Howard Leaque Beekeeper programme graduation
    Thank you for the opportunity to be here to present certificates to the 16 graduates who have completed a beekeeping course delivered by the Howard League.  Let us start by acknowledging Auckland Prison’s Deputy Prison Director Tom Sherlock, and Acting Assistant Regional Commissioner of Corrections Northern Region Scott Walker - ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Finance Minister to attend APEC meetings
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson leaves this weekend to attend the APEC Finance Ministers meeting in Santiago, Chile. Discussions between APEC Finance Ministers at the meeting will include the effects of the current global economic uncertainty, risks for APEC economies and sustainable development of the region. While at APEC Grant Robertson ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Pacific languages are a source of strength, they ground us and build confidence
    The Minister for Pacific Peoples Aupito William Sio says for Pacific people, language can be a source of strength. It can help ground us and give us confidence. When we speak them, our languages provide us with an immediate and intimate access to our identity and our story - and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago
  • Major boost to support disabled people in sport and recreation
    The Coalition Government has announced an action plan to improve the wellbeing of disabled New Zealanders by addressing inequalities in play, active recreation and sport. The initiative includes training to develop a workforce that understands the needs of children and young people with a range of impairments, advocacy for fit ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago