What if we let the wilding pines grow?

Written By: - Date published: 1:03 pm, August 7th, 2019 - 129 comments
Categories: climate change, Conservation, Environment, uncategorized - Tags: ,

A conversation in Daily Review last night about transitioning marginal farmland away from stock prompted this post about the values of wilding pines.

This is a 20 year difference:

Photo by Grahame Sydney

 

Robert Guyton made these points,

… the way ahead is forward into trees, not back into livestock. Pinus radiate and its brutal management is the worst of choices and doesn’t represent the model I’m promoting, but neither does livestock farming. Foresters have a long way to go to up-grade their practices to something appropriate for the situation we find ourselves in now, but at least they are planting trees; moving them from monocultural thinking to multi-faceted, forest-based thinking will be aided by circumstance, in my view; the climate and the change in thinking resulting from that will force changes rapidly and that’s what I’m banking on and that’s why I cheer-on the planting of trees. Wilding pines reclaiming high country sheep stations is a good example of marginal land being turned into forestry, wouldn’t you say?

Robert then laid down a challenge,

Wilding pines are not useful in the conventional sense; they don’t produce straight timber for a start, but we are not thinking deeply or strategically enough about them. If we regard them as an enemy that has to be destroyed, we will lose the battle we’ve set ourselves. Better to harness the irrepressible force that they are and use them for our benefit, somehow. It’s that “somehow” we have to explore.

… I’m suggesting taking a different approach and looking at all the “weeds” of the world, not as enemies, but as allies. It’s not immediately apparent how this would work, in specific situations such as wilding pines, but that’s because we haven’t applied our clever minds to the problem using that lens; we’ve just stuck with the “bash our way through” mentality and that’s left much of the world bashed-up.

How about we have a go at applying our clever minds and deeper thinking. Comments welcome below in a similar vein. Here are mine.

A couple of uses for wilding pines that I can see. One is firewood. We already have some initiatives to use wilding pines for industrial fuel, as a more integrated solution. It’s certainly an improvement on the current slash and burn approach. But it’s unlikely to improved the local ecosystem because one of the drivers is to keep certain landscapes bare and iconic. End use biofuels have GHG emissions. Chipping for biofuel is an industrial solution to a problem created by an industrial mindset.

Instead we can take our cues from nature. Conifers have a strong capacity to be productive, and they are adaptive to landscapes that humans are having trouble growing things and where natives species are struggling to re-establish themselves. Pines are already there, giving a substantial headstart over humans planting seedlings themselves. Pines are better at selecting where to grow in order to survive.

An alternative to chipping/biofuel would be allowing wilding pines to create forests and then sustainably log them for firewood for locals. With the right management it would be possible to make this carbon neutral or even a carbon sink. Instead of seeing the pines as a problem that is isolated from their environment, we can see a reforesting solution with the pines integrated into a system of localised climate response. We need more trees, we need to restore landscapes and protect biodiversity. We need fuel for warm shelter, hot water, cooked food. We need climate resiliency for wind and drought events and so on. All those things in one design.

The other, related use then, is to use the power of wilding pines as a way to regenerate to other, mixed species. There are other plants that will share space with Pinus so long as the trees have enough space between them eg by selective logging for firewood. What that mixed forest then gets ‘used’ for would depend on the geography and local needs. We could for instance be reforesting this way for its own sake, for food, for recreational spaces. The above idea about firewood too.

Pine isn’t the greatest of firewoods, but we don’t have to burn it forever, because now we have changed the local ecosystem so it is easier to grow trees that are better suited to the task. A polyculture forestry profession arises. It’s easy to see how the above ideas would create jobs and support local economies. Lots of wins.

There’s a couple of issues here that make that difficult. One is the attachment to iconic high country landscapes. I think the solution to that is to choose as many of those landscapes as we need to and that are appropriate, put a philosophical and management boundary around them, and put resources into returning them to native spaces. This will alleviate the discomfit that many feel in letting pines grow everywhere.

The other is that New Zealanders have a love/hate relationship with Pinus species. We grow a lot of them, build our houses out of them, but hate them when they exhibit their natural piney-ness by expanding their range and by being allelopathic and preventing other things from growing. But our view of pines is skewed by our history of growing them in monocrops. What we need now is living examples of mixed forest where pines have a place but aren’t dominant.

There are lots of challenges to what I am suggesting. How to stop the spread of pines and other wilding species into native systems. How to manage different geographies with regards to climate, weather and terrain. But these problems become easier once we start working with nature instead of against her.

129 comments on “What if we let the wilding pines grow? ”

  1. McFlock 1

    An interesting use might be production of pine tar and charcoal. The pine tar is a bunch of hydrocarbons that could be a non-fossil source for plastics or fuels (depending on volume of production), and the charcoal can be a fuel or used in filters and suchlike.

    All depending on per-tree scale, of course. Charcoal not a problem, but no idea on tar outputs from the above ground bit of the tree (as opposed to the tar-dense roots).

    • weka 1.1

      I bet the Europeans know a few things about tar and charcoal from conifers. One of the issues is the distance from wilding pine areas to industry. I'd be interested to know how feasible it would be to localise production.

      • McFlock 1.1.1

        Scandinavia especially.

        Thing is, if they're not needed for logs then it seems to me they can be chipped/shredded almost onsite and put into containers to go to wherever they're processed. Some sort of itinerant facility like a cross between a garden woodchipper and a combine harvester.

        Heck, the wood chips could provide methane to drive the trucks to take the chips to their destination lol

        • weka 1.1.1.1

          Harvesting to clear land maybe. Selective harvest out of regenerating forest is a different thing. This was the point about looking at nature-based solutions rather than industrial ones. Also to limit the GHGs from transport. I think it will vary hugely. Some areas will be suitable for industrial schemes, but there's still the issue of land and biodiversity degradation with that.

          • McFlock 1.1.1.1.1

            Not sure industrial necessarily means clearfelling. There are selective harvesters for high value logs that use helicopters for extraction, as a high-cost example.

            But it definitely requires a change in perspective from 20C industrialisation.

            • weka 1.1.1.1.1.1

              yep. I was thinking lower tech and more local, but not a scenario where no industrial tech is used at all. Not a fan of helicopters as a long term solution but we could make use of them while they're easily available. We should be planning lower tech though, post-carbon and more resilient systems.

              • McFlock

                There are some really interesting forestry tools aroung – basically robots on a ditch-digger chassis with a driver, where you select the tree, the robot clamps onto it, chops it down into set lengths, and strips the branches all in about a minute or less.

                So some sort of machine like that but that can go into more difficult and tight terrain with less of an impact (e.g. trackmarks and crushed foliage) might be possible. and safer for forestry operators.

                I think we're getting to the stage where higher tech can mean lower impact. Things like Boston Dynamics' "big dog" come to mind as a low-impact (sort of mule-level) but high tech option. And the only reason that project got cancelled was because the yanks wanted to take it into combat and it was too noisy.

                But a mule train of "big dogs" between the tree-chopperchipper and the access point a couple of km away might be a low impact way to harvest the forests without so many twisted ankles or fatalities.

                • weka

                  I don't disagree about appropriate tech, but holy shit just tried to watch a video of Boston Dynamics' "big dog" and the noise, aarggg. Solve that problem and it might be a goer.

          • Norman Grey 1.1.1.1.2

            Anything Robert Guyton sa

  2. Francesca 2

    Pines won't spread in to healthy native forest , they're not shade tolerant

    They thrive on disturbed and impoverished soils and can be pioneer species, beginning the process of soil restoration

    They 'll take a lot longer than the usual 25 years to reach their full potential for benefit.We just need to adjust our impatient expectations and time scale

    Constant poisoning and interruption of the process hasn't done one iota of good

    We also need to develop other criteria for prosperity ..it doesn't always need to be measured in dollars

    • Dukeofurl 2.1

      Not able to be ‘harvested’ as you think. Commercial use is out of the question due to the way they grow.

      • weka 2.1.1

        I think you are missing the zeitgeist of the post. It's to look at creative alternatives to slash and burn approaches to wilding pines, in the context of climate change and sustainable land management. Please stay on topic from now on. I'm sure you've got some good ideas you can contribute. "Clever minds and deeper thinking".

      • McFlock 2.1.2

        So I'm an "a tree is a tree" n00b. Why is the way they grow impervious to chainsaw use?

        • weka 2.1.2.1

          it's not.

          'Wilding pine' is a term used for a range of species, including non-pine ones. Some are better suited to certain uses than others, because of how they grow or what they're made of. The point of the post is to look at the conifers and see what we can do with them, rather than what we can't. I'll be interested to see where Duke goes with that.

    • mauī 2.2

      They do spread into native forest. I know of a patch of solid native bush with some old man pines. Now there are multiple generations of newer pines pepper potted throughout the forest, probably from seed that has been able to find a light gap in the forest. Pine can also grow up through native forest, although it struggles.

      I agree though we probably need to adjust our expectations. Pines as part of the native landscape, because they aren't going anywhere. Maybe you could compare them to our native beech forests, where only a select set of native species grow alongside the beech trees creating a more open habitat. Pine forests are similar in that respect – less plant diversity but more open space to walk in and observe. That is probably a more human relatable environment too.

  3. Dukeofurl 3

    Trees may be a good idea but you are overlooking the reasons Wilding Pines are classified as a destructive.

    https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/common-weeds/wilding-conifers/

    Wilding conifers threaten to permanently alter the unique landscapes that are only found in New Zealand.

    As wilding conifers overwhelm our native landscapes, they kill our native plants, and evict our native animals. They also have a huge impact on our economy. They suck valuable water out of catchments, they add big costs to farming and they impact on tourism and recreational opportunities.

    See them as been able to be 'harvested' is completely misguided

    Wilding conifers are a major problem in areas where there is no native forest, such as above the bush line, in mineral belts and tussock grasslands. In these areas, wilding conifers modify the natural ecosystems so much that the unique New Zealand landscape is lost and native plants and animals are evicted or die.

    T

    • weka 3.1

      Did you read the post Duke? Because your comment suggests you didn't.

      • Dukeofurl 3.1.1

        Most of your claims arent backed up

        [deleted]

        [neither are yours. I gave you a couple of chances. Stay out of the comments on this post for the rest of the day. – weka]

        [additional mod note now I have more time. Had you said something like “I don’t get what you mean, how can conifers be managed to prevent dominance?”, then we could have had a conversation about that and I would have been happy to tell you what I think. Multiple posts asserting I am wrong and you are right were creating a derail and I don’t have time or patience for that. I hope you get what I am pointing to here going forward with other posts, because I think you do have things to bring to the table, but as you know, it’s not a free for all under my posts. My patience is shorter now than it was a year ago – weka]

      • Siobhan 3.1.2

        Dukes comments..or link..is exactly what I would have put up..and I read the piece twice just to make sure I understood the points being made.

        Though I would add concerns about native fisheries..

        “The pH level (degree of acidity) is important to both bottom fauna and subsequently aquatic life such as indigenous fish and trout. If the pH drops below 5.5 (increased acidity) then long term damage to the fishery, both native and trout, occurs.”

        "Pine trees take much more water from the environment than native vegetation and reports were where pines have been planted, stream flows were noticeably less and even disappeared."

        Now both these statements are in relation to mono culture rather than the wilding pine situation, however from what I have seen wilding pines tend to create their own monoculture fairly quickly.

        I would recommend reading this study.

        http://researcharchive.lincoln.ac.nz/bitstream/handle/10182/354/aeru_rr_303.pdf?sequence=1

        • weka 3.1.2.1

          If you read the post I'm am clearly saying that we need to manage wilding pines to transition to mixed species, and not let them establish dominance.

          For instance, if the current planning and implementation budget was allocated to that instead of spraying, what interventions could we use to create forests rather than plantation? This is what Robert was pointing to I think, that we need to think deeper on these things and see what is possible. Being locked into monoculture thinking was what I wanted to get past.

  4. Gosman 4

    The issue here is one of land productivity. Wilding Pines may well make sense at an economic level (i.e. allowing people to make more money from them than it costs to grow them) however if the land can make more money as a Pine plantation then it is able to support more people at a higher income. If you want people to have higher incomes you need to offer them the opportunities to take that path.

    • weka 4.1

      Some of the land in question isn't suitable for plantation pine, but even where it is, we should still be moving to mixed and sustainable forestry and more diverse timbers. Pine is useful but has distinct limits as a material.

      I can't see any reason why people working in sustainable reforestry can't make a good living from it. I agree about offering people opportunities that will be attractive to them. This is what the post is about, exploring how to do that.

      • Gosman 4.1.1

        You say "We" but this is not a "We" thing ultimately. The owner of the land decides what it is in his or her best interest. You may seek to influence their decisions by providing incentives or disincentives to certain activity but unless it is more financially attractive to have a mixed forest with Wilding Pines then it won't just happen because you think it is a nice idea.

        • weka 4.1.1.1

          Sure, what I mean is there is no reason that society can't develop better models than we have now. That was the point of the post. Private land owners who like to lead the way can pioneer this.

          Wilding pine control uses public funds and is done on public land, it's not just a private property issue. There are publicly owned forests.

  5. joe90 5

    Yeah, let them grow if you want to change the chemical composition of our soils, exterminate native flora and fauna, and turn our National conservation estate into a mono-cultural wasteland suitable for conifers and only conifers.

    • weka 5.1

      Why would you let them grow on conservation estate? Did you read the post? Have you been in forests that are mixed species and not conifer dominant?

      The point of the post is to elicit deeper discussion. eg how can we maintain and restore native ecosystems while reforesting marginal farmland with mixed/introduced species for human use?

      • Dukeofurl 5.1.1

        [deleted]

        [see mod note elsewhere in the thread – weka]

      • joe90 5.1.2

        Why would you let them grow on conservation estate

        They grow where the wind takes the seeds from adjacent plantations/wilding populations.

        They've spent the past fifty years trying to control wilding pines in the Tongariro National Park with no end in sight. There are ongoing efforts to eradicate serious infestations in the Kawakawa Forest Park and Mount Tarawera and in the south island they threaten over 200,000 hectares of DOC administered land.

        By all means restore native flora but please, no more exotics. Because more conifers, wilding or plantation, means more infestation in the National Conservation estate.

      • New view 5.1.3

        Have you ever been anywhere near a Wilding Pine. Because the way your comments go you haven’t. You talk of managing them. How, without agent orange. If you don’t want to poison you cut them out or cut them down before they seed. One by one. They seed on the wind prolifically over a huge area. In the Mackenzie Basin miles from any forest you find the seedlings growing. I’ve seen them. The fuck up on the east Coast recently where hundreds of thousands of dollars of seedlings died before they were planted gives us an idea of the current management skills so I wouldn’t put to much faith in managing wilding pines. I feel the idea is worth thinking about just. But not with Wilding pines.

        • weka 5.1.3.1

          Did you read the post? The idea is to let *some (not all, and not areas that can be restored to native) marginal farmland be reforested by using wilding pines.

          Management in this context is how to create mixed species (not just conifer) forests. Have you ever been in a NZ forest that is mixed species including pine or other conifers? How did that forest come to be like that?

    • Drowsy M. Kram 5.2

      Possums (Trichosurus vulpecula) are partial to a bit of (exotic) pine. Plant Porokaiwhiri (pigeonwood; Hedycarya arborea).

      http://www.pestdetective.org.nz/culprits/possum/#vegetation-damage

      http://www.nzfoa.org.nz/images/stories/pdfs/content/researchgeneral/possumspines.pdf

    • Francesca 5.3

      Trouble is people rarely see a pine tree older than 25 years

      In Milnthorpe park you can see examples of old Pines festooned with all manner of native epiphytic ferns and as astelias, with self seeded five finger,rimus, pigeon wood at its feet.

      The Pines are being superseded by natives

      The notion of Pines being toxic to other species is a myth. It's a matter of time only

      • weka 5.3.1

        Where is Milnthorpe Park? That sounds amazing? Is there native bush nearby?

        Conifers do form dominant climax forests though right? We'd need to actively prevent that in wilding pine areas, by management. Those areas tend to be dry and have a history of overgrazing so it's hard for native species to regenerate. Letting the gorse and broom grow would help. I wonder if they have/had pines at Hinewai?

      • Robert Guyton 5.3.2

        That's a great observation, Francesca. I used to sit and watch the enormous pines in Isel Park, in Stoke, near Nelson. They were enormous and truly magnificent. Pines are as wonderful as any tree. Pinus radiate has been commodified here in NZ and rendered inert, so far as wonder is concerned, in the minds of New Zealanders.

  6. Dennis Frank 6

    My reason to support wilding pine toleration on marginal land would be the magic mushroom that grows under them. http://www.fungifoodie.com/2016/04/17/new-zealand-mushrooms-part-2/#sthash.WtkLJp5I.dpbs

    Amanita Muscaria, scarlet with white polka dots. I was never brave enough to try tripping on it, but as a boy in the fifties would collect armfuls in Autumn, from under the pines on the hillside out back of my grandad's place just above the Te Henui. They looked so cool! I'd admire them sitting in rows like an art exhibition.

    Natural magic is essential to human life. Re-enchanting our hinterland would be a fine way to bequeath a regenerative stewardship ethic to our descendants…

    • weka 6.1

      I love this. I had a fascination with them as a child too.

      There's a whole thing missing from the post about the importance of shifting land from pasture to forest and the roles that fungi play in that.

      • Robert Guyton 6.1.1

        Fungi are the Way Forward. Once we align ourselves with them, we'll be on our way!

    • Stuart Munro. 6.2

      If you're going the mushroom route, the 松茸, Korean: 송이, 松栮, pine mushroom, Tricholoma matsutake would generate significant returns, and it's not called the pine mushroom for nothing. Dry years and rising demand have driven prices in Asia over $1000 a kilo, making it second only to truffles for demand.

      • weka 6.2.1

        cool Do you know if it's allowed to be grown in NZ?

        • Stuart Munro. 6.2.1.1

          I don't see why not – Shitake aren't native & we've been growing them since 1985. Likely the import restrictions are severe however, creating a practical monopoly for the "scientists investigating whether they can cultivate shoro (Rhizopogon rubescens) and matsutake (Tricholoma matsutake)" of whom little else is said.

          There are likely several other families of mushroom traditionally gathered by Russians that could be gainfully introduced, though of course locals would need to learn to recognize them. Some may be here already – there are apparently porcini in Hagley Park for instance.

          • greywarshark 6.2.1.1.1

            Is WetheBleeple around? He is very keen on mushrooms and knows a lot about varieties. I haven't seen his input from mid July I think.

            I remember walking through a forest at Hanmer Springs at Easter one year and was fascinated by the red and white topped mushrooms. Like out of one of my childhood books.

          • Robert Guyton 6.2.1.1.2

            Hagley Park has ceps. Visitors from overseas inadvertently bring and shed spores of all sorts of fungi; it's not feasible to create barriers to fungi. If we plant the "nurse" trees or create the favoured environments for specific fungi, they might well "turn up" (unless the local fungal population don't want them smiley.

      • Robert Guyton 6.2.2

        Matsutake are delicious. Spores travel, unseen, on paper. Write a letter to your Korean pen-pal smiley

        • Stuart Munro. 6.2.2.1

          A splendid idea!

          I had thought of bringing some back – you can buy gift packs of them around Chuseok – my banker friend usually receives a few. We did the whole Songi thing once down near Daegu – Songi beer, mandu, soup and barbeque with samgyupsal.

          What I'd like to see is them widespread – providing supplementary income and food the way morels do nowadays in North America, rather than the closed small plantings that characterize contemporary truffieres.

          Korean mountain areas are not farmed and gathering rights are not exclusive, so songi, ginseng and the vast variety of san-namuel 'mountain vegetables' provide pin money for the rural poor, as well as healthy & tasty dietary variety.

  7. Stuart Munro. 7

    There are some quite profitable uses out there already, starting with essential oils.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/79404774/pioneers-extracting-oil-from-wilding-pines

    Countries with slower growing forests would find ways to use the timber, and we might as well, if we chose. Given that a lot of our tussock grasslands were forested geologically recently, reforesting them should not create a kneejerk panic, albeit twere better to choose a mixture of desirable species rather than settling for self-selection in every case.

    The DoC position seems a bit of a moral panic. Not so very long ago moral panic and 245T was the response to gorse, now it's treated more as a nursery crop and green manure for forestry. I'm pretty sure wilding pines could be used in a similar fashion, and like gorse, robbed of sunlight they'll rapidly die off.

  8. Yes trees, trees and more trees!

    When we look at the sheer amount of wood forests that have been cut down and milled to supply the markets and populations in the last 100 years it is staggering. Back then , the consequences were not realized , barring erosion , loss of fauna habitat etc…but now those chickens have come home to roost.

    If possible , the replanting of indigenous species in each region , but that is not always feasible or practical, but there are surrogates that are and can be put to pragmatic use.

    I am no 'greenie' in the traditional sense, just someone who grew up in the bush with a father that was a park ranger.

    I prefer living in and around the timber than open pasture lands. But that's just me. However , I'm not sure I 100% agree with Robert in the case of arid lands and country's where essentially 'mobstocking' to mimic former wild herds seemed to have maintained former grassland areas that have now become deserts / semi deserts. I think this chap has to be listened to and taken very , very seriously.

    How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory

    https://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI

    The reason I bring this up is because these arid regions contain some of the largest and most problematic areas of the globe, , yet tree planting and wetland management is a no brainer in temperate areas like NZ , which is conducive to vegetation with its high rainfall and favourable climate… that's something we here can do and do well. And turn a profit of considerable benefit.

    Be that profit financial , environmental or both…

    Perhaps then we should allow the wilding pine to grow in some regions.

    Allan Savory on How to Green the World's Deserts and Reverse …

    https://singjupost.com/allan-savory-green-worlds-deserts-reverse-climate-change-trans

    Anyhows , I seem to remember that NZ has only 17% left of its former lowland, and alpine vegetation coverage, – which a huge amount of denuding, – much of which has proven a disaster in regards erosion and soil management…and they have found the only real long term solution was to let those areas return to a natural state. If it were my choice, I’d prefer scrub Ti tree anyday as a nursery tree for the larger species, but in many high country areas that is not feasible, so again… perhaps there is a place for the wilding pine.

    • weka 8.1

      I find Allan Savory's work impressive. Not sure how well it translates here but the principles are sound and could be learned from. Some regenag farmers are using mob stocking on fast rotation, that seems to work for productive farms.

      • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1

        Yeah , your quite right – two entirely different local climates and ecosystems involved. However , with all the focus on the massive and alarming destruction of ongoing deforestestation , sometimes the grasslands get ignored, which as Savory points out is a colossal amount of carbon and water being lost. I guess the main take away is the collective climatic effects , – that and an example of poor land management.

        • Robert Guyton 8.1.1.1

          Wild Katipo – there's dispute over whether grasslands anywhere are natural: that is, they only came into existence with the help of humans. Aside from alpine areas and some other small specific sites, chemically or temperately difficult.
          The African Plains were forested once. Australia was not always arid and thinly treed.

          • WILD KATIPO 8.1.1.1.1

            Um ,… lightning strikes causing burn offs, flooding, and the Great Plains always supported vast herds of bison. I should imagine the same goes for the herds in Africa whereby trees were thinned / destroyed by the actions of large mammals ie : Elephants and so on and grasslands became the dominant vegetation. Bit of everything , I suspect, and along with mans fires and burn offs, accidental or deliberate.

  9. xanthe 9

    nature abhors a vacuum…. let them grow…. and count them in with our billion trees effort. plant turpentine is a valuable commodity and will only increase in value. a fantastic opportunity for small scale sustainable onsite enterprise going forward.

  10. Stuart Munro. 10

    If we choose to pursue the technology, wilding pines could provide the feedstock for a biobutanol industry that can replace petrol in existing vehicles. It's a good tech to pursue because, in addition to running in existing fuel distribution infrastructure, it can utilize the waste from other uses of the pines. A hardy, fast growing self-sowing feedstock is not a terrible thing.

    There's a lot of research into biobutanol at present, which is a bacterial digestion product, but fully commercial models aren't out yet, the are three limitations:

    1. The digestion products, as with brewing, are toxic to the organisms producing them. A continuous process removing them as they are produced requires an engineering solution along the lines of the NZ invented continuous brewing process.

    2. Development of preferred digestion strains is in its infancy and some improvements in yield or ease of culture are expected.

    3. Plant for separation of digestion products is required to produce the high specification standardized fuels and market ready solvent byproducts.

    The logic for pursuing this technology is rather better than that for fossil fuel based Taranaki hydrogen project, given the sustainable source.

  11. Robert Guyton 11

    Ohhhh! I missed this, being away from the computer, up-lifting grafted apple trees for our heritage fruit tree sale this coming weekend! Blast! I'd have liked to have been involved early on, especially with the Duke's comments. It's an emotive and controversial topic, wilding pines and temperatures rise quickly when it's discussed. I'm surprised Mr Leghorn..sorry, gwaghorn hasn't joined the fray, but perhaps like me, he's been busy out of doors. I know the conservationists swoon at the suggestion that wildings might be beneficial and some very respectable and honourable people would seethe at the presentation of the idea, but I think it hasn't been explored to any great depth yet, so I thank weka for taking the initiative and throwing the issue into the pit of debate.

    One of the issues that Sir Alan Mark takes, is that of water processes that involve tussocks and are interrupted by trees. I don't think anyone's been bold enough to take on his wise words on this matter, but with climate change bearing down upon us, I reckon all cards should be put on the table. I reckon, as a rule of thumb, re-foresting the planet is the way forward.

    • greywarshark 11.1

      I seem to remember Sir Kerry Burke or someone in his Canterbury Environment Council saying about pines being very water hungry which was a disadvantage, and it also cropped up in one of the links I saw and may be in the ones I have included here further down when they come out of moderation (too many links but I thought they could be useful).

      The tussocks might act as a series of water brakes when flowing down a slope and they would then be akin to the Mulloon Natural Sequence Farming system.

      2015: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48x0lPEkypQ

    • weka 11.2

      I thought you might be outside doing tree things. B has other things to tend during the day.

      What was Mark's take on water?

      • Robert Guyton 11.2.1

        That tussock collects water from the foggy atmosphere and that's the start of the water cycle. Smother the tussocks and the water cycle is interrupted.

        • WILD KATIPO 11.2.1.1

          Jolly interesting… that,… after a fashion , is what Alan Savory was saying about regenerating'grasslands'… the main difference being that in those areas they had seasonal die offs which , if it wasn't for the wild herds, would have become desert like… I wonder if the Moa worked the tussock lands in prior times…

          However, tussock retaining moisture so that the soil does not lose that water through evaporation is very interesting…perhaps another example of the perfect symbiosis of the land and indigenous vegetation.

          • Robert Guyton 11.2.1.1.1

            The tussocks serve as "collectors" of dew and fog, funnelling it down to the soil and into the sub-soil etc. Pines don't do the same thing. However, forests attract rain, so the water cycle could be maintained. There's not been enough work/thinking done about this yet, imo.

  12. marty mars 12

    The major issue I have with this is that it is not considering the holistic ecosystem related to trees and a forest. The tree is the big standy up bit but the real value is in the total interwoven support structures in and around the trees. I'm not saying this can't be sorted somehow, I'm saying it must be considered otherwise we are just creating real issues.

    • Robert Guyton 12.1

      Yes, Marty, that's it! Let's think that way, literally deeper than we've previously thought!

    • weka 12.2

      totally agree marty. When I talk about forest I mean all of it including what is under the ground and all the non-plant life. I think we have lots of exciting work ahead seeing what kind of non-native or mixed forests we can grow and what happens in them. I also remain committed to increasing native systems too.

      Thanks for pointing this out, because sometimes forests get talked about as if it’s just the trees, or even just one species.

  13. greywarshark 13

    Turpentine pine? That would be a useful plant.

    I have been looking at agroforestry to see how it would go if farmers had wildings and also had stock, so being able to continue farming but with trees on paddocks in greater numbers than they would have had before. And of course they can be used clustered for shelter belts and shade if that suits.

    Wilding pines are just part of the general description of 'wildings' regarded as weeds (plants in the wrong place).

    Wikipedia says : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilding_conifer

    There are ten main species included in this designation.

    Species

    European larch in the Jollie River. The trees have almost completely blanketed the flanks of the lower section of the valley.

    There are ten main species that have become wildings:

    It appears, from reading the info on google, that none of these wilding pines have a use for supplying edible pine nuts unfortunately.

    https://www.nzffa.org.nz/farm-forestry-model/resource-centre/tree-grower-articles/tree-grower-february-2008/lincoln-university-agroforestry-experiment-findings/

    I think I have interpreted the info correctly. It appears that –

    Studies on land with pine growing on pasture for animals (agroforestry). This showed a drop off in growth of pasture, and lower weights of animals and the choice of planted feed had to be nutritious and shade tolerant. If there were carbon credits gand the pines were used for firewood etc when well grown and interspersed with some forage trees like tagaestes (I think). with appropriate management viability of both animal farming and healthy tree growing could be achieved. (That is my perception anyway.) But should not be written off, and the wilding pines could be left. as long as the variety or all of them were not toxic to the animals in a mixed management. I don't remember reading anything about that.

    Other links that could be useful:

    https://www.dairynz.co.nz/environment/land-management/trees-on-farms/

    Experiments with trees for shade and dairying.
    https://www.nzffa.org.nz/farm-forestry-model/resource-centre/tree-grower-articles/tree-grower-2014-february/cattle-want-shade-trees-in-summer/

  14. Graeme 14

    Not all wildings are of no use. A lot of the old crop douglas fir around the Whakatipu is amazing timber. A very public example is the trees beside the Skyline gondola, beautiful straight trees that would mill very well.

    A very large old stand at Long Gully in Skippers was milled in the 90's. I used a lot of it in building and it was the best building timber I've ever used, light and clean, and incredibly stable. It was a completely different timber to normal NZ plantation D. Fir, but the Long Gully trees were 60+ years old, where plantation trees are usually cut at 28 – 30 years.

    Looking at the way Central Otago and Upper Waitaki grows wildings, especially in the McKenzie, you have to wonder whether forestry wouldn't be a better land use than dairy. There’s a lot of species other than P. Rad and D. Fir that don’t have the same wilding potential.

  15. bwaghorn 15

    I've cut pinus contorta down for doc . They grow very straight once they seed in large numbers . Usually we would have one big ugly contorted mother tree surrounded by many nice straight ones with limbless trunks.

    Also I was on molesworth recently massive farm with 2 full time and a few part time jobs . Plant that not quality farms .

  16. Ray 16

    It is not often I agree with Robert but on this I do 100%.

    Most of NZs tussock land was in bush before humans arrived and Mother Nature would really like it to return to that, hence the "wilding problem" which is her using the species available trying to do just that.

    If we can help the planet and edge the process in a way that we can all profit from so much the better.

  17. Robert Guyton 17

    A sobering read:

    "The enclosure of the commons is a story that may have begun hundreds of years earlier in England, but it is one that is by now familiar the world over, especially to the peasants, subsistence farmers, and indigenous peoples who are so often the target of these dispossessions. Whatever the cause – whether dispossession from the land by powerful outsiders, or the catastrophic destruction of forests or biomes owing to invasive organisms – robbed of the commons that lies at the heart of the community, that ecological base that sustains us all, we are made poor. We are made refugees. We are made aliens to nature, to each other, and to ourselves."

    https://dark-mountain.net/where-the-trees-used-to-be/

  18. Pat 18

    Some history..

    "Prior to human colonisation, it is thought that the New Zealand landmass was almost entirely covered in forest, apart from alpine areas. Between the beginning of Polynesian settlement in New Zealand around the fourteenth century and the beginning of organised European colonisation in the nineteenth century, it is estimated that forest cover was reduced by about half, largely through fire. When the European settlement of New Zealand began in earnest in the 1840s, it is estimated that forest, or ‘bush’ in the vernacular, covered about two thirds of the North Island and about 25 to 30 per cent of the South Island. In the decades that followed, bush was destroyed through milling and fire to make way for settlements and farms. By 1900, forest cover had been reduced by half again, to about 25 per cent."

    https://envirohistorynz.com/tag/forest-cover-map/

    http://www.nzjf.org.nz/free_issues/NZJF54_1_2009/5C127D1A-CDFF-4cde-B272-23362D00A078.pdf

    Seems to me that the answer to the question of 'wilding pines' is …it depends.

    Like the 'billion trees' programme there needs to be specific goals, designated species and areas and the removal of economic incentives as the driver

    • weka 18.1

      Re that last bit, there's some low hanging fruit with a fair amount of land in NZ that could be handed over to communities to manage and reforest.

  19. R.P Mcmurphy 19

    look what should happen is next autumn allkids go out and collect acorns and they are topdressed everywhere.

    they will out compete pines and provide a better ecological solution.

    I am not even going to bother with any counter arguments. These trees grow fast and provide canopy protection for native flora.

    When is somebody going to get the frigging job done.

    • weka 19.1

      Oak forests would be a game changer.

      Not sure how well oaks grow from seed in the landscapes that have wilding pines. Anyone know?

      • Graeme 19.1.1

        Around Arrowtown oaks will grow anywhere the acorn lands, I've got a couple of wild (probably fell off the back of a truck) ones coming away nicely on the roadside outside home.

        We have sycamore forests too, again wilding trees, and spreading prolifically. But no one seems to care about them, and the hawthorn, and rowan, and elder.

        • weka 19.1.1.1

          those sound like the makings of pretty interesting forest. Are there areas of mixed species? Does oak grow on it own?

          • Graeme 19.1.1.1.1

            Oaks do require a bit of human intervention, intention or otherwise, we don't have any wildlife to spread the acorns around, ducks hoover them up but I don't think the acorns are viable out the other end.

            Sycamore forest quickly becomes a mono-culture like D. Fir, but a lot nicer at 20 years old. So really still weeds at this point. What happens in 50 -100 years is yet to be seen but could be interesting.

            Add into the mix is several wilding conifer "control groups" with considerable council and DOC support who are doing a sterling job of cutting down and spraying the conifer weeds, to let the other weeds, sycamore, hawthorn, rowan, broom, gorse, briar and everything else that's escaped the garden thrive. And there's been a bit of native that's been clobbered in the process.

            • Robert Guyton 19.1.1.1.1.1

              We should look to the natural forests where sycamores grow in balance with other species and learn from those how to create mixed exotic forests here. We can't hope to have native-only forests here; that option is long gone.

  20. peterlepaysan 20

    Ahem!

    There is some discussion about bovine (but not human) contributions to methane production. Apparently methane is a significant factor as well as CO2.

    Reforestation (on a huge scale) seems to be a partial and significant solution.

    Unfortunately pine trees inhibit (to put it mildly) the destruction of methane.

    I suspect other species may do likewise, Cypress would be my prime suspect.

    We should keep planting trees, actually keep planting and stop making co2 and methane.

    No more burping an farting.

    • weka 20.1

      "Unfortunately pine trees inhibit (to put it mildly) the destruction of methane."

      How does that work?

      • Mack 20.1.1

        "How does that work?" Don't think you'll get a straight answer for that, Weka. .. just looks like some pompous, juvenile, loon .. right from go,, with the "Ahem".

        There's some tree planting madness gripping the climate crisis crowd but it's all futile nonsense. There's total loss of perspective. Don't even worry about the Amazon too much, either… satellites show that night time transpiration of the Amazon jungle releases vast amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere. Sure, there is a net fixing of carbon by tree photosynthesis, but it's just in proportion to tree growth, and some trees grow very slowly. People forget that the land area covered by trees is proportionately not very large compared to the rest of the surface of the planet . 72% is covered in ocean, and this is where the "lungs of the world" really is. Satellites show vast blooms of phytoplankton regularly occur in the oceans, which suck up the heavy CO2 gas wafting above the sea. These vast blooms don't last very long but die off pretty quickly… taking the dissolved CO2 as a carbonate sediment to the bottom of the ocean.

      • Robert Guyton 20.1.2

        How does that work?

        Try this explanation:

        "Last Sunday on Radio NZ, kiwi climate science Jim Salinger spoke of his current research in North America. A colleague gathering air over pine forests found that the pines “burb” isoprenes that inhibit the removal of methane from the atmosphere. The Science Direct website explains the impact of isoprenes in the atmosphere stating it “reacts with oxidised molecules that would otherwise react with methane, thereby extending the residence time of methane and enhancing global warming…”

        So if we continue to extend our pine plantations we could be extending the life of methane in the atmosphere. Pine trees will inevitably be the majority of the billion trees the Government plans to plant. Recent reports also advocate reducing pasture. We need an urgent rethink. Here is a link to Jim Salinger’s interview. Comments on methane start at 3.15 minutes."

        https://northlandclimatechange.org/2019/04/04/more-pines-more-methane/

      • Robert Guyton 20.1.3

        Jim Salinger says a chemical produced by pines might be interfering with the binding of methane molecules in the atmosphere, causing methane to remain up there for longer. Might be. He's researching the issue now, in Canada. In any case, we all agree here (aside from Mack who's "futile nonsense" comment is self-descriptive) monocultures are inappropriate and a diverse planting approach is the way to go. The idea of people adding diversity to monocultural plantings is an entertaining one. The classic tale of "The man who planted trees" would be a good inspiration for people, preparing to head out into pine forests with bags of acorns over their shoulders smiley

  21. Ad 21

    QueenstownLakes Council is taking out all of its pine forest. They don't support any native wildlife there, they acidify the soil, and are as invasive as rabbits.

    Tussock country as legitimate native landscape should be protected not further ruined. Just because pines survive well, does not mean they shouldn't be eradicated in the wild.

    • Robert Guyton 21.1

      Eradication projects foster an anti-biotic mindset. Gorse is another plant that attracts ire and antipathy, yet is proving invaluable for recreating forests. Hinewai Reserve is the prime example.

      • Ad 21.1.1

        So let's be really clear Robert.

        I want eradication of rabbits, mustelids, phytophthera, deer, ragwort, and a vast range of regionally and nationally recognized pest species.

        You can pick and choose if you want. Explain which programme should be de-funded. Go ahead.

        I'm sure every dead carcass can grow a native something. That's a pathetically weak argument. Gorse has been one of the most destructive species we've ever had in New Zealand. Pines are the same.

        There is no argument to overturn well recognized national and regional policy against wilding pines. State which policy is wrong – you should be across it on a regional council for that long.

        Wilding pines should be on the Predator Free New Zealand list, and for government and councils they effectively are.

        • Robert Guyton 21.1.1.1

          Ad

          You might want "eradication of rabbits, mustelids, phytophthera, deer, ragwort, and a vast range of regionally and nationally recognized pest species." but your chances of getting what you want are not high, in my opinion. That "vast range" is, as you say, vast, and eradicating them all is totally unrealistic, again, in my opinion. Regional councils shed organisms from their lists when the realise that they can't achieve the aim of eradication and those organisms become background and part of the growing numbers of "pests" entering the country or flaring up from colonies already here.

          As to gorse, I invite you to watch the short film about Hugh Wilson's work with gorse at Hinewai and particularly note the comments from the farmer who originally felt as you do about gorse; it's a great watch.

          https://youtu.be/3VZSJKbzyMc

          • Ad 21.1.1.1.1

            Robert since you are standing for re-elwction, what is your opposition to Predator Free New Zealand?

            Laziness and pessimism is a good reason to vote you out

            What parts of Southland regional policy on pest species do you oppose?

            Don't ask me to watch junk when you're incapable of actual policy argument. You want gorse, go have a chat with the Maori of Northland.

            • Robert Guyton 21.1.1.1.1.1

              Ad – my concerns about Predator Free NZ are many and I'm always willing to talk about the issue openly, in order to lead the way for others who might have reservations and need a prompt to express themselves.

              Your second sentence could be thought offensive, however, I take no offence at it, knowing that you're mistaken in your thinking.

              I'm concerned that the commitment to eradicate all of the predators listed, will fall short for various reasons and that over all, re-infestation will have us wondering at the wisdom of committing so much to it in the first place. Off shore islands are good places to run such ambitious programmes; the whole of NZ is not, in my opinion. I think too, of the methods being employed and weigh up the effects of those on the environment with the expected (but vain, imo) result.

              As to your characterising the film about Hugh Wilson as "junk", you lose a lot of credibility, imo, by saying that. I'm interested though, in what aspect of Hugh's work you don't support. Your apparent hatred of gorse puts you in a different camp to many people commenting here. I didn't say I want gorse, I'm saying, where it exists, it's wise to consider a Hugh Wilson type approach to it, if reforestation is your eventual aim, as I guess it would be for you, so keen you seem to be on ridding the land of possums; I presume that's for the sake of the forest, yes? Or are you wanting to protect cattle and the cattle farmers from the effects of TB?

              • Stuart Munro.

                As far as I can make out through the fog of spin, the 1080 program insofar as it relates to cattle (and prior to the invention of the 'predator free' campaign 90% of 1080 use was directed to that end) is intended not so much to control TB per se, as at achieving TB free certification for marketing purposes. This makes the benefits claimed for the program, which must weigh against its negative impacts, remarkably slender.

              • greywarshark

                Robert at 12.44 pm

                I like your considered and balanced approach. You take a pragmatic approach, looking at the cost and benefits and judging by the likely outcomes.

                You note that humans can decide something but Nature rules in the end – 'Man proposes but God disposes'. So it is no use making a decree that something should happen, without thinking about the problems that plan would create, and whether the outcomes would be better than if other methods were used.

          • WILD KATIPO 21.1.1.1.2

            Wonderful video, had me smiling . Its the age old thing , to let the natural processes do the work. And NZ native bush is tough. It will , if left alone, reclaim the land generally. Great work and a great vid !

        • greywarshark 21.1.1.2

          Adedit –

          This is no time for rigidity – following a policy that is time-consuming and actually goes against what is seen as a current need. You seem inflexible about sticking to projects and behaviours that were formulated last century.

          This century we are faced with a different view of the world, how we cope with that will show up as being successful at limiting damage, or unsuccessful and causing great sadness. Nobody with a healthy outlook wants to see most of the country hit by constant enervating problems because we failed to direct our efforts earlier, to the most practical and far-seeing and innovative measures we could that are nature-based. No authoritarian force keeping strictly to the rules set up in times of ignorance can stem Nature. We must work how we can using a template that identifies the best methods for the outcomes we want, and overturns past methods if shown to be below the best option.

    • Pat 21.2

      Which native landscape?…the native landscape of 10,000 years ago, 1,000 years ago or a hundred years ago or of today?

      • Robert Guyton 21.2.1

        Today's landscapes are "native". Our task, having created them, is to optimise them, manage them and make them a good as they can possibly be, for all concerned.

        • Pat 21.2.1.1

          And that requires a definitive goal….not some vague process driven by market forces with all of its perverse outcomes

          • Robert Guyton 21.2.1.1.1

            Yes. Discussions like this one need to be had widely, so that the problems, challenges and solutions can be revealed. We shouldn't be fearful of poking at "wasp" nests of accepted wisdom; if we stir up the embers we might get the fire going. Presently, it's smouldering and we need some heat applied to the problem quickly!

            • Pat 21.2.1.1.1.1

              we can discuss endlessly while the problem overcomes us….or our so called leaders can show some leadership instead of trying to be all things to all people.

              • Robert Guyton

                As far as reforesting is concerned, it seems as though they're trying. Further discussion though, is needed to make their efforts and investments more effective and appropriate, I reckon. This sort of discussion should never stop. As well, "non-leaders" should feel inspired to join the fray and improve our chances of success, by presenting their own plans, testing them in public them get on with implementing them, knowing they are backed by others.
                It’s useful when discussing trees, to be working closely with trees: I’m presently “shaping” my forest garden with pruning saw and secateurs, and have the topic of forest-creation in my thoughts constantly. Right now though, I’m off to sort fruit trees for our sale this weekend, so I’ll miss the conversations here during the day. I hope they’re productive.

                • Pat

                  then our perceptions are quite different re the trees policy….I see a poorly considered policy that has no definitive goal and a process with the wrong incentives and unconnected and contrary to other relevant policy areas ( conservation, wilding pines, land use change etc)

              • greywarshark

                But they do have to consider all things, and all people. That is a change that has to be made from past thinking and behaviour.

                This requires real thought for the future beyond profit-is-queen. And that thinking has not been done in a continuous fashion since the shocks of the 1970's. What a great future we have managed to purvey after WW2! The future was before us to do great things to make society a good and enjoyable and admirable thing that all countries would achieve. We didn't they didn't. We have to suck it up, turn round and listen to the people who think and care, and explain the problem to the rest, as we know that society will always have different factions.

                So mere leadership isn't enough – we need to have direction and means and helping people to get on board the moving pathway. If they don't, who is going to be there to help them cope? Perhaps we will have the sort of leaders that picks them out and puts them in 'detention centres' when they are not nasty criminals undermining society. These would not be good leaders for a society regarding itself as responsible and decent.

                • Pat

                  Yes they have to consider all things and all people….AND THEN DECIDE….not defer direction for political expediency. It appears to me that there is no goal other than that of reelection, is that any way to deal with a crisis, or even run a country sans crisis?

  22. Warren Doney 22

    I've often thought let nature heal land the way it wants to. Even gorse can be beneficial, forming a kind of nursery in its midst. I would probably pick manuka over pine though. It self seeds well once established, and it's good for stabilizing hills. Maybe hemp too?

    • Mack 22.1

      I can't see why these wackos are getting their nickers in a knot over methane. It only comprises 0.00017% of the earth's atmosphere. Corrupt old hammer and sickle head loons like Jim Salinger are talking even less than a fart in a hurricanes worth wrt methane. And as for Nitrous Oxide… at 0.00003%… that's 4 0s !!!… well, we could all do with a bit of an increase in that laughing gas stuff. I'm all for making the world a happier place.

      • Pat 22.1.1

        This may explain why

        https://www.wired.com/story/atmospheric-methane-levels-are-going-up-and-no-one-knows-why/

        “Humans have been producing methane for thousands of years, by clearing land with fires, raising cattle, and growing rice. Thanks to air bubbles trapped in ice cores taken from Antarctica, we know that the global average methane concentration in the atmosphere has nearly tripled in response. Because it lasts only about a decade in the atmosphere, cutting methane is a relatively fast-acting lever for slowing climate change. But it isn’t clear how we should pull that lever”

        • Mack 22.1.1.1

          Same old cliches we hear from you loons…

          "… we should pull that lever"

          …. we should plug in.. switch on.

          ….we should take positive action.

          ….we should get to grips with.

          …we should open our eyes.

          …. we should pick the low hanging fruit.

          …. we should extract finger.

          Nah, we should run around like a headless chook, under the directions of the NZ global warming high priest James Renwick , who is stupid enough to believe that earth's global temperature would be -18deg C without some wacko "greenhouse effect" in the atmosphere. Stupid enough to believe that the ATMOSPHERE is keeping the OCEANS from becoming FROZEN SOLID.

          • Pat 22.1.1.1.1

            apparently you didnt read the link

            • Mack 22.1.1.1.1.1

              Nah, I didn't Pat. and I guarantee that nobody else here bothered to wade through all that wasted scientific thinking about methane. Never in human history has so much scientific time and effort been devoted to study something based on such a false assumption.

              There were a few more cliches… in addition to "pull the lever."

              "… is the wild card"

              "….. is an educated guessing game" … "final score of the game" …… "but not who scored what and how"

              "….. water in a bathtub with an open faucet and plugged drain"

              "….. gotten the wind out of its sails"

              "…. what's coming down the road"

              There's one more I've just remembered from our troughing climate clown, J. Renwick "….which way the dice rolls."

              This leading loon needs his ass firmly kicked.

              https://www.climateconversation.org.nz/2019/05/psst-engineering-gossip/#comment-1563811

              • weka

                Mack, I'm having trouble understanding your posts. Do you believe that climate change is caused by humans? Do you believe that it's a serious problem?

                • Mack

                  No weka, , I think I'm about the only denialist here at The Standard. I prefer denialist to denier.. it's more professional.

                  • weka

                    ok, thanks for being clear and honest. I don't allow climate denial under my posts. You can look up past posts of mine to see why. Please refrain from commenting under my climate posts in future.

      • Robert Guyton 22.1.2

        " I can't see why…"

        Perhaps you could apply yourself to study? You might make the connection, understand the issue, gain a sense of what others are thinking… you know, break out of your own ossified mind-set, who knows, maybe you'll…see why!

        Good luck!

        • Anne 22.1.2.1

          Not a chance RG. We've got a severe case of Dunning Kruger syndrome here:

          The Dunning-Kruger effect is a type of cognitive bias in which people believe that they are smarter and more capable than they really are. Essentially, low ability people do not possess the skills needed to recognize their own incompetence.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

        • Mack 22.1.2.2

          "Perhaps you could apply yourself to study?"

          Spoken like a true teacher… speaking down to his pupils from his position of authority. Feeding to young , receptive, innocent ears any ideological garbage that infests his tiny imagination. The trouble is. you're teaching my/our children… but it's a good job you've retired now? Hope you weren't teaching "climate science" to our kids?

          "… gain a sense of what others are thinking"

          Nah, Robert, I've been around long enough to have an idea of what others are thinking…and have an ability to think for myself … broken free from the establishment group think of the classroom. Unlike you, haven't stayed with the loony govt. classroom Koolaid… that not eating meat will make a difference to the temperature of this planet.

          "…ossified mind-set"

          Nah, Robert I think you're the believing bonehead.

          Good luck!

          • Robert Guyton 22.1.2.2.1

            So, that's a no to further study?

            There's no need to regard me as an "authority", Mack; we're all equal here on The Standard. I do bridle a little at your describing my imagination as "tiny"; I've been working on expanding my imagination and felt I was doing okay, but perhaps I need to apply myself more. We have something in common, you and I: both of us have escaped the classroom! Good news all round; I never felt at home there; I'm better suited to the garden really; no one to instruct, no need to direct anyone's attention, no requirement to assess anyone's abilities; you can see why I'm so happy out of doors, especially school doors. Bonehead? Not for me to say, really. If that was the general consensus, I'd have to take the charge seriously; as it is, only you have levelled it, so I'll suspend judgement till such a time as the title becomes commonly applied.

            • Mack 22.1.2.2.1.1

              Good reply, Robert.

              All the best

              Mack.

              Sky Dragon Slayer's Chief Public Relations Officer.

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  • Will it make the boat go faster?
    Ele Ludemann writes – The Reserve Bank is advertising for a Diversity, Equity and Inclusion advisor. The Bank has one mandate – to keep inflation between one and three percent. It has failed in that and is only slowly getting inflation back down to the upper limit. Will it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    8 hours ago
  • Bryce Edwards: Is Simon Bridges’ NZTA appointment a conflict of interest?
    Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency Waka Kotahi The fact that a ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    8 hours ago
  • Is Simon Bridges’ NZTA appointment a conflict of interest?
    Bryce Edwards writes – Last week former National Party leader Simon Bridges was appointed by the Government as the new chair of the New Zealand Transport Agency Waka Kotahi (NZTA). You can read about the appointment in Thomas Coughlan’s article, Simon Bridges to become chair of NZ Transport Agency ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    8 hours ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' at 10:10am on Tuesday, March 19
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Gavin Jacobson talks to Thomas Piketty 10 years on from Capital in the 21st Century The SalvoLocal scoop: Green MP’s business being investigated over migrant exploitation claims Stuff Steve KilgallonLocal deep-dive: The commercial contractors making money from School ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    8 hours ago
  • Bernard's six newsy things on Tuesday, March 19
    It’s a home - but Kāinga Ora tenants accused of “abusing the privilege” may lose it. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The Government announced a crackdown on Kāinga Ora tenants who were unruly and/or behind on their rent, with Housing Minister Chris Bishop saying a place in a state ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    10 hours ago
  • New Life for Light Rail
    This is a guest post by Connor Sharp of Surface Light Rail  Light rail in Auckland: A way forward sooner than you think With the coup de grâce of Auckland Light Rail (ALR) earlier this year, and the shift of the government’s priorities to roads, roads, and more roads, it ...
    Greater AucklandBy Guest Post
    10 hours ago
  • Why Are Bosses Nearly All Buffoons?
    Note: As a paid-up Webworm member, I’ve recorded this Webworm as a mini-podcast for you as well. Some of you said you liked this option - so I aim to provide it when I get a chance to record! Read more ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    13 hours ago
  • Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6.06 pm on March 18
    TL;DR: In my ‘six-stack’ of substacks at 6.06pm on Monday, March 18:IKEA is accused of planting big forests in New Zealand to green-wash; REDD-MonitorA City for People takes a well-deserved victory lap over Wellington’s pro-YIMBY District Plan votes; A City for PeopleSteven Anastasiou takes a close look at the sticky ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Peters holds his ground on co-governance, but Willis wriggles on those tax cuts and SNA suspension l...
    Buzz from the Beehive Here’s hoping for a lively post-cabinet press conference when the PM and – perhaps – some of his ministers tell us what was discussed at their meeting today. Until then, Point of Order has precious little Beehive news to report after its latest monitoring of the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    1 day ago
  • Labour’s final report card
    David Farrar writes –  We now have almost all 2023 data in, which has allowed me to update my annual table of how  went against its promises. This is basically their final report card. The promise The result Build 100,000 affordable homes over 10 ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • “Drunk Uncle at a Wedding”
    I’m a bit worried that I’ve started a previous newsletter with the words “just when you think they couldn’t get any worse…” Seems lately that I could begin pretty much every issue with that opening. Such is the nature of our coalition government that they seem to be outdoing each ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    1 day ago
  • Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Geoffrey Miller writes – Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    1 day ago
  • Gordon Campbell on Dune 2, and images of Islam
    Depictions of Islam in Western popular culture have rarely been positive, even before 9/11. Five years on from the mosque shootings, this is one of the cultural headwinds that the Muslim community has to battle against. Whatever messages of tolerance and inclusion are offered in daylight, much of our culture ...
    1 day ago
  • New Rail Operations Centre Promises Better Train Services
    Last week Transport Minster Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown opened the new Auckland Rail Operations Centre. The new train control centre will see teams from KiwiRail, Auckland Transport and Auckland One Rail working more closely together to improve train services across the city. The Auckland Rail Operations Centre in ...
    1 day ago
  • Bernard's six newsy things at 6.36am on Monday, March 18
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson said in an exit interview with Q+A yesterday the Government can and should sustain more debt to invest in infrastructure for future generations. Elsewhere in the news in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 6:36am: Read more ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    1 day ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: Wang Yi’s perfectly-timed, Aukus-themed visit to New Zealand
    Timing is everything. And from China’s perspective, this week’s visit by its foreign minister to New Zealand could be coming at just the right moment. The visit by Wang Yi to Wellington will be his first since 2017. Anniversaries are important to Beijing. It is more than just a happy ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    2 days ago
  • The Kaka’s diary for the week to March 25 and beyond
    TL;DR: The key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to March 18 include:China’s Foreign Minister visiting Wellington today;A post-cabinet news conference this afternoon; the resumption of Parliament on Tuesday for two weeks before Easter;retiring former Labour Finance Minister Grant Robertson gives his valedictory speech in Parliament; ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    2 days ago
  • Bitter and angry; Winston First
    New Zealand First Leader Winston Peters’s state-of-the-nation speech on Sunday was really a state-of-Winston-First speech. He barely mentioned any of the Government’s key policies and could not even wholly endorse its signature income tax cuts. Instead, he rehearsed all of his complaints about the Ardern Government, including an extraordinary claim ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    2 days ago
  • 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #11
    A listing of 35 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, March 10, 2024 thru Sat, March 16, 2024. Story of the week This week we'll give you a little glimpse into how we collect links to share and ...
    2 days ago
  • Out of Touch.
    “I’ve been internalising a really complicated situation in my head.”When they kept telling us we should wait until we get to know him, were they taking the piss? Was it a case of, if you think this is bad, wait till you get to know the real Christopher, after the ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    2 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • Bring out your Dad
    Happy fourth anniversary, Pandemic That Upended Bloody Everything. I have been observing it by enjoying my second bout of COVID. It’s 5.30 on Sunday morning and only now are lights turning back on for me.Allow me to copy and paste what I told reader Sara yesterday:Depleted, fogged and crappy. Resting, ...
    More Than A FeildingBy David Slack
    3 days ago
  • The bewildering world of Chris Luxon – Guns for all, not no lunch for kids
    .“$10 and a target that bleeds” - Bleeding Targets for Under $10!.Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.This government appears hell-bent on either scrapping life-saving legislation or reintroducing things that - frustrated critics insist - will be dangerous and likely ...
    Frankly SpeakingBy Frank Macskasy
    3 days ago
  • Expert Opinion: Ageing Boomers, Laurie & Les, Talk Politics.
    It hardly strikes me as fair to criticise a government for doing exactly what it said it was going to do. For actually keeping its promises.”THUNDER WAS PLAYING TAG with lightning flashes amongst the distant peaks. Its rolling cadences interrupted by the here-I-come-here-I-go Doppler effect of the occasional passing car. ...
    3 days ago
  • Manufacturing The Truth.
    Subversive & Disruptive Technologies: Just as happened with that other great regulator of the masses, the Medieval Church, the advent of a new and hard-to-control technology – the Internet –  is weakening the ties that bind. Then, and now, those who enjoy a monopoly on the dissemination of lies, cannot and will ...
    3 days ago
  • A Powerful Sensation of Déjà Vu.
    Been Here Before: To find the precedents for what this Coalition Government is proposing, it is necessary to return to the “glory days” of Muldoonism.THE COALITION GOVERNMENT has celebrated its first 100 days in office by checking-off the last of its listed commitments. It remains, however, an angry government. It ...
    3 days ago
  • Can you guess where world attention is focussed (according to Greenpeace)? It’s focussed on an EPA...
    Bob Edlin writes –  And what is the world watching today…? The email newsletter from Associated Press which landed in our mailbox early this morning advised: In the news today: The father of a school shooter has been found guilty of involuntary manslaughter; prosecutors in Trump’s hush-money case ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    3 days ago
  • Further integrity problems for the Greens in suspending MP Darleen Tana
    Bryce Edwards writes – Is another Green MP on their way out? And are the Greens severely tarnished by another integrity scandal? For the second time in three months, the Green Party has secretly suspended an MP over integrity issues. Mystery is surrounding the party’s decision to ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    3 days ago
  • Jacqui Van Der Kaay: Greens’ transparency missing in action
    For the last few years, the Green Party has been the party that has managed to avoid the plague of multiple scandals that have beleaguered other political parties. It appears that their luck has run out with a second scandal which, unfortunately for them, coincided with Golraz Ghahraman, the focus ...
    Democracy ProjectBy bryce.edwards
    3 days ago
  • Bernard’s Dawn Chorus with six newsey things at 6:46am for Saturday, March 16
    TL;DR: The six newsey things that stood out to me as of 6:46am on Saturday, March 16.Andy Foster has accidentally allowed a Labour/Green amendment to cut road user chargers for plug-in hybrid vehicles, which the Government might accept; NZ Herald Thomas Coughlan Simeon Brown has rejected a plea from Westport ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    3 days ago
  • How Did FTX Crash?
    What seemed a booming success a couple of years ago has collapsed into fraud convictions.I looked at the crash of FTX (short for ‘Futures Exchange’) in November 2022 to see whether it would impact on the financial system as a whole. Fortunately there was barely a ripple, probably because it ...
    PunditBy Brian Easton
    4 days ago
  • Elections in Russia and Ukraine
    Anybody following the situation in Ukraine and Russia would probably have been amused by a recent Tweet on X NATO seems to be putting in an awful lot of effort to influence what is, at least according to them, a sham election in an autocracy.When do the Ukrainians go to ...
    4 days ago
  • Bernard’s six stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15
    TL;DR: Shaun Baker on Wynyard Quarter's transformation. Magdalene Taylor on the problem with smart phones. How private equity are now all over reinsurance. Dylan Cleaver on rugby and CTE. Emily Atkin on ‘Big Meat’ looking like ‘Big Oil’.Bernard’s six-stack of substacks at 6pm on March 15Photo by Jeppe Hove Jensen ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Buzz from the Beehive Finance Minister Nicola Willis had plenty to say when addressing the Auckland Business Chamber on the economic growth that (she tells us) is flagging more than we thought. But the government intends to put new life into it:  We want our country to be a ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    4 days ago
  • National’s clean car tax advances
    The Transport and Infrastructure Committee has reported back on the Road User Charges (Light Electric RUC Vehicles) Amendment Bill, basicly rubberstamping it. While there was widespread support among submitters for the principle that EV and PHEV drivers should pay their fair share for the roads, they also overwhelmingly disagreed with ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    4 days ago
  • Government funding bailouts
    Peter Dunne writes – This week’s government bailout – the fifth in the last eighteen months – of the financially troubled Ruapehu Alpine Lifts company would have pleased many in the central North Island ski industry. The government’s stated rationale for the $7 million funding was that it ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Two offenders, different treatments.
    See if you can spot the difference. An Iranian born female MP from a progressive party is accused of serial shoplifting. Her name is leaked to the media, which goes into a pack frenzy even before the Police launch an … Continue reading ...
    KiwipoliticoBy Pablo
    4 days ago
  • Treaty references omitted
    Ele Ludemann writes  – The government is omitting general Treaty references from legislation : The growth of Treaty of Waitangi clauses in legislation caused so much worry that a special oversight group was set up by the last Government in a bid to get greater coherence in the public service on Treaty ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • The Ghahraman Conflict
    What was that judge thinking? Peter Williams writes –  That Golriz Ghahraman and District Court Judge Maria Pecotic were once lawyer colleagues is incontrovertible. There is published evidence that they took at least one case to the Court of Appeal together. There was a report on ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    4 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 15
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Climate Scorpion – the sting is in the tail. Introducing planetary solvency. A paper via the University of Exeter’s Institute and Faculty of Actuaries.Local scoop: Kāinga Ora starts pulling out of its Auckland projects and selling land RNZ ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • The day Wellington up-zoned its future
    Wellington’s massively upzoned District Plan adds the opportunity for tens of thousands of new homes not just in the central city (such as these Webb St new builds) but also close to the CBD and public transport links. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: Wellington gave itself the chance of ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    4 days ago
  • Weekly Roundup 15-March-2024
    It’s Friday and we’re halfway through March Madness. Here’s some of the things that caught our attention this week. This Week in Greater Auckland On Monday Matt asked how we can get better event trains and an option for grade separating Morningside Dr. On Tuesday Matt looked into ...
    Greater AucklandBy Greater Auckland
    4 days ago
  • That Word.
    Something you might not know about me is that I’m quite a stubborn person. No, really. I don’t much care for criticism I think’s unfair or that I disagree with. Few of us do I suppose.Back when I was a drinker I’d sometimes respond defensively, even angrily. There are things ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    4 days ago
  • The Hoon around the week to March 15
    Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The five things that mattered in Aotearoa’s political economy that we wrote and spoke about via The Kākā and elsewhere for paying subscribers in the last week included:PM Christopher Luxon said the reversal of interest deductibility for landlords was done to help renters, who ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Labour’s policy gap
    It was not so much the Labour Party but really the Chris Hipkins party yesterday at Labour’s caucus retreat in Martinborough. The former Prime Minister was more or less consistent on wealth tax, which he was at best equivocal about, and social insurance, which he was not willing to revisit. ...
    PolitikBy Richard Harman
    5 days ago
  • Skeptical Science New Research for Week #11 2024
    Open access notables A Glimpse into the Future: The 2023 Ocean Temperature and Sea Ice Extremes in the Context of Longer-Term Climate Change, Kuhlbrodt et al., Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society: In the year 2023, we have seen extraordinary extrema in high sea surface temperature (SST) in the North Atlantic and in ...
    5 days ago
  • Melissa remains mute on media matters but has something to say (at a sporting event) about economic ...
     Buzz from the Beehive   The text reproduced above appears on a page which records all the media statements and speeches posted on the government’s official website by Melissa Lee as Minister of Media and Communications and/or by Jenny Marcroft, her Parliamentary Under-secretary.  It can be quickly analysed ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    5 days ago
  • The return of Muldoon
    For forty years, Robert Muldoon has been a dirty word in our politics. His style of government was so repulsive and authoritarian that the backlash to it helped set and entrench our constitutional norms. His pig-headedness over forcing through Think Big eventually gave us the RMA, with its participation and ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    5 days ago
  • Will the rental tax cut improve life for renters or landlords?
    Bryce Edwards writes –  Is the new government reducing tax on rental properties to benefit landlords or to cut the cost of rents? That’s the big question this week, after Associate Finance Minister David Seymour announced on Sunday that the Government would be reversing the Labour Government’s removal ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Geoffrey Miller: What Saudi Arabia’s rapid changes mean for New Zealand
    Saudi Arabia is rarely far from the international spotlight. The war in Gaza has brought new scrutiny to Saudi plans to normalise relations with Israel, while the fifth anniversary of the controversial killing of Jamal Khashoggi was marked shortly before the war began on October 7. And as the home ...
    Democracy ProjectBy Geoffrey Miller
    5 days ago
  • Racism’s double standards
    Questions need to be asked on both sides of the world Peter Williams writes –   The NRL Judiciary hands down an eight week suspension to Sydney Roosters forward Spencer Leniu , an Auckland-born Samoan, after he calls Ezra Mam, Sydney-orn but of Aboriginal and Torres Strait ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • It’s not a tax break
    Ele Ludemann writes – Contrary to what many headlines and news stories are saying, residential landlords are not getting a tax break. The government is simply restoring to them the tax deductibility of interest they had until the previous government removed it. There is no logical reason ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • The Plastic Pig Collective and Chris' Imaginary Friends.
    I can't remember when it was goodMoments of happiness in bloomMaybe I just misunderstoodAll of the love we left behindWatching our flashbacks intertwineMemories I will never findIn spite of whatever you becomeForget that reckless thing turned onI think our lives have just begunI think our lives have just begunDoes anyone ...
    Nick’s KōreroBy Nick Rockel
    5 days ago
  • Who is responsible for young offenders?
    Michael Bassett writes – At first reading, a front-page story in the New Zealand Herald on 13 March was bizarre. A group of severely intellectually limited teenagers, with little understanding of the law, have been pleading to the Justice Select Committee not to pass a bill dealing with ram ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    5 days ago
  • Gordon Campbell on National’s fantasy trip to La La Landlord Land
    How much political capital is Christopher Luxon willing to burn through in order to deliver his $2.9 billion gift to landlords? Evidently, Luxon is: (a) unable to cost the policy accurately. As Anna Burns-Francis pointed out to him on Breakfast TV, the original ”rock solid” $2.1 billion cost he was ...
    5 days ago
  • Bernard's Top 10 @ 10 'pick 'n' mix' for March 14
    TL;DR: My top 10 news and analysis links this morning include:Today’s must-read: Jonathon Porritt calling bullshit in his own blog post on mainstream climate science as ‘The New Denialism’.Local scoop: The Wellington City Council’s list of proposed changes to the IHP recommendations to be debated later today was leaked this ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • No, Prime Minister, rents don’t rise or fall with landlords’ costs
    TL;DR: Prime Minister Christopher Luxon said yesterday tenants should be grateful for the reinstatement of interest deductibility because landlords would pass on their lower tax costs in the form of lower rents. That would be true if landlords were regulated monopolies such as Transpower or Auckland Airport1, but they’re not, ...
    The KakaBy Bernard Hickey
    5 days ago
  • Cartoons: ‘At least I didn’t make things awkward’
    This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Tom Toro Tom Toro is a cartoonist and author. He has published over 200 cartoons in The New Yorker since 2010. His cartoons appear in Playboy, the Paris Review, the New York Times, American Bystander, and elsewhere. Related: What 10 EV lovers ...
    5 days ago
  • Solving traffic congestion with Richard Prebble
    The business section of the NZ Herald is full of opinion. Among the more opinionated of all is the ex-Minister of Transport, ex-Minister of Railways, ex MP for Auckland Central (1975-93, Labour), Wellington Central (1996-99, ACT, then list-2005), ex-leader of the ACT Party, uncle to actor Antonia, the veritable granddaddy ...
    Greater AucklandBy Patrick Reynolds
    5 days ago
  • I Think I'm Done Flying Boeing
    Hi,Just quickly — I’m blown away by the stories you’ve shared with me over the last week since I put out the ‘Gary’ podcast, where I told you about the time my friend’s flatmate killed the neighbour.And you keep telling me stories — in the comments section, and in my ...
    David FarrierBy David Farrier
    6 days ago
  • Invoking Aristotle: Of Rings of Power, Stones, and Ships
    The first season of Rings of Power was not awful. It was thoroughly underwhelming, yes, and left a lingering sense of disappointment, but it was more expensive mediocrity than catastrophe. I wrote at length about the series as it came out (see the Review section of the blog, and go ...
    6 days ago
  • Van Velden brings free-market approach to changing labour laws – but her colleagues stick to distr...
    Buzz from the Beehive Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Brooke van Velden told Auckland Business Chamber members they were the first audience to hear her priorities as a minister in a government committed to cutting red tape and regulations. She brandished her liberalising credentials, saying Flexible labour markets are the ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • Why Newshub failed
    Chris Trotter writes – TO UNDERSTAND WHY NEWSHUB FAILED, it is necessary to understand how TVNZ changed. Up until 1989, the state broadcaster had been funded by a broadcasting licence fee, collected from every citizen in possession of a television set, supplemented by a relatively modest (compared ...
    Point of OrderBy poonzteam5443
    6 days ago
  • Māori Party on the warpath against landlords and seabed miners – let’s see if mystical creature...
    Bob Edlin writes  –  The Māori Party has been busy issuing a mix of warnings and threats as its expresses its opposition to interest deductibility for landlords and the plans of seabed miners. It remains to be seen whether they  follow the example of indigenous litigants in Australia, ...
    Point of OrderBy Bob Edlin
    6 days ago
  • There’s a name for this
    Every year, in the Budget, Parliament forks out money to government agencies to do certain things. And every year, as part of the annual review cycle, those agencies are meant to report on whether they have done the things Parliament gave them that money for. Agencies which consistently fail to ...
    No Right TurnBy Idiot/Savant
    6 days ago

  • Government moves to quickly ratify the NZ-EU FTA
    "The Government is moving quickly to realise an additional $46 million in tariff savings in the EU market this season for Kiwi exporters,” Minister for Trade and Agriculture, Todd McClay says. Parliament is set, this week, to complete the final legislative processes required to bring the New Zealand – European ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 hour ago
  • Positive progress for social worker workforce
    New Zealand’s social workers are qualified, experienced, and more representative of the communities they serve, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “I want to acknowledge and applaud New Zealand’s social workers for the hard work they do, providing invaluable support for our most vulnerable. “To coincide with World ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 hours ago
  • Minister confirms reduced RUC rate for PHEVs
    Cabinet has agreed to a reduced road user charge (RUC) rate for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. Owners of PHEVs will be eligible for a reduced rate of $38 per 1,000km once all light electric vehicles (EVs) move into the RUC system from 1 April.  ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    8 hours ago
  • Trade access to overseas markets creates jobs
    Minister of Agriculture and Trade, Todd McClay, says that today’s opening of Riverland Foods manufacturing plant in Christchurch is a great example of how trade access to overseas markets creates jobs in New Zealand.  Speaking at the official opening of this state-of-the-art pet food factory the Minister noted that exports ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    9 hours ago
  • NZ and Chinese Foreign Ministers hold official talks
    Minister of Foreign Affairs Winston Peters met with Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi in Wellington today. “It was a pleasure to host Foreign Minister Wang Yi during his first official visit to New Zealand since 2017. Our discussions were wide-ranging and enabled engagement on many facets of New Zealand’s relationship with China, including trade, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    22 hours ago
  • Kāinga Ora instructed to end Sustaining Tenancies
    Kāinga Ora – Homes & Communities has been instructed to end the Sustaining Tenancies Framework and take stronger measures against persistent antisocial behaviour by tenants, says Housing Minister Chris Bishop. “Earlier today Finance Minister Nicola Willis and I sent an interim Letter of Expectations to the Board of Kāinga Ora. ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 day ago
  • Speech to Auckland Business Chamber: Growth is the answer
    Tēna koutou katoa. Greetings everyone. Thank you to the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Honourable Simon Bridges for hosting this address today. I acknowledge the business leaders in this room, the leaders and governors, the employers, the entrepreneurs, the investors, and the wealth creators. The coalition Government shares your ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    3 days ago
  • Singapore rounds out regional trip
    Minister Winston Peters completed the final leg of his visit to South and South East Asia in Singapore today, where he focused on enhancing one of New Zealand’s indispensable strategic partnerships.      “Singapore is our most important defence partner in South East Asia, our fourth-largest trading partner and a ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Minister van Velden represents New Zealand at International Democracy Summit
    Minister of Internal Affairs and Workplace Relations and Safety, Hon. Brooke van Velden, will travel to the Republic of Korea to represent New Zealand at the Third Summit for Democracy on 18 March. The summit, hosted by the Republic of Korea, was first convened by the United States in 2021, ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Insurance Council of NZ Speech, 7 March 2024, Auckland
    ICNZ Speech 7 March 2024, Auckland  Acknowledgements and opening  Mōrena, ngā mihi nui. Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho.  Good morning, it’s a privilege to be here to open the ICNZ annual conference, thank you to Mark for the Mihi Whakatau  My thanks to Tim Grafton for inviting me ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Five-year anniversary of Christchurch terror attacks
    Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Lead Coordination Minister Judith Collins have expressed their deepest sympathy on the five-year anniversary of the Christchurch terror attacks. “March 15, 2019, was a day when families, communities and the country came together both in sorrow and solidarity,” Mr Luxon says.  “Today we pay our respects to the 51 shuhada ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024
    Speech for Financial Advice NZ Conference 5 March 2024  Acknowledgements and opening  Morena, Nga Mihi Nui.  Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Nor Whanganui aho. Thanks Nate for your Mihi Whakatau  Good morning. It’s a pleasure to formally open your conference this morning. What a lovely day in Wellington, What a great ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    4 days ago
  • Early visit to Indonesia strengthens ties
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters held discussions in Jakarta today about the future of relations between New Zealand and South East Asia’s most populous country.   “We are in Jakarta so early in our new government’s term to reflect the huge importance we place on our relationship with Indonesia and South ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    5 days ago
  • China Foreign Minister to visit
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