What National Needs To Do

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1. mac1 1

   27 November 2021 at 9:43 am

   Been rereading earlier comments on the Standard in 2021 about National's problems.

   For them, the most important critique was by Matthew Hooton on the poor quality of their candidate selection, to start with.

   There have been 16 candidates for National out of 150 since the 2011 MMP List who have been in some sort of strife.

   Barclay, Gilmore, Hauiti, Walker, Sabin, Key, Hipango, Falloon, Todd McClay, Nick Smith, English, Bezzard, Dowie, Ross, Wood, Woodhouse.

   Now we add Bridges to the mix.

   17 out of 150 candidates since 2011 have been 'in trouble'. 11%. One in nine.
   • Gezza 1.1

     27 November 2021 at 12:04 pm

     Handy to have that little reminder of how pathetic National’s candidate selection has bedn. 😐
     • mac1 1.1.1

       27 November 2021 at 12:31 pm

       Think what poor candidate selection does. First it drives away voters, Second it discourages and even drives away party supporters and members. Third it discourages good candidates from putting themselves forward, either to be miss out to an inferior candidate at selection time or to have to align themselves with inferior candidates on the hustings and in parliament.

       And fourthly, our country has poorer government at all sorts of levels, from constituency to ministerial work, legislation and regulations, foreign dealings to social policy.

       It's one reason why we should be advocating that people join political parties to enable a larger consensus to work together, rather than one-issue wankers, nutters, power seekers, the sociopathic self-servers.

       Broader membership bases and an empowering system of policy-making and candidate selection would do so much more for our politics, and perhaps encourage more to respect and become involved in turn.

       I am forever hopeful.
       • Gezza 1.1.1.1

         27 November 2021 at 12:43 pm

         👍🏼 Damn straight❗️
   • Tiger Mountain 1.2

     27 November 2021 at 2:40 pm

     NZ National’s probs go further than candidate selection. They are charged historically with representing big capital, finance capital and large holding Farmers.

     The problem for them is claiming to represent working farmers, self employed, small and SME business operators, and “hard working Nu Zilundas”–some of whom are obviously working and middle class. Anyone who has run a small business knows–they are generally majorly in hock to a bank aka Finance Capital.

     So a big old bag of competing interests there for a kick off. They managed it well enough during FPP with gerrymandering, but since MMP the fissures between urban, provincial, rural, conservative, liberal etc. have presented more openly. National’s days are limited–but what are its wealthy backers going to do to maintain their hegemony? Because the other leg to National has been post ’84 neo liberal Labour.

     Back to candidate selection, the Natzos just love ex coppers in provincial seats don’t they? They certainly came adrift with biffo merchant Mr Sabin who I know from the Doubtless Bay Area. At the time of his selection there was a slightly new age Christian farmer from around Kerikeri called Mark Tan, who would have made a reasonable candidate for the 21st century one might think. But, no, the selectors could not help themselves. Next up Matt King, another ex plod, and climate change denier and vaccination sceptic.
   • Jester 1.3

     28 November 2021 at 2:38 pm

     Didn't Mathew Hooton choose Todd Muller to be the leader? So I wouldn't really trust his opinion too much.
     • mac1 1.3.1

       28 November 2021 at 2:46 pm

       Jester, his opinion abut poor candidate selection coincides with others. I instanced him because even Nats thought so.

       I also am not one to decry all that an opponent says either because he is an opponent or because he got another opinion wrong. That's a little too ready for my reckoning. 🙂
   • PHB 1.4

     29 November 2021 at 12:56 pm

     Add in Matt (there is no Covid) King.
2. Pete 2

   27 November 2021 at 9:55 am

   Funny how Dr Reti is getting kudos because he's "medically qualified." He is, good on him, but what bets some in National who are prepared to flaunt that and bow to him because he 'knows stuff' have rubbished scientists and experts over the past two years?

   Their qualifications, knowledge and experience were discounted and rubbished, were worth jack all. He's a doctor, big deal.

   From early 2023 it's going to all be about what the housing situation is like and the indicators of poverty and issues like gangs, not the National leader.

   If those things aren't seen as being handled well, National could be led by Dr Dolittle, Dr Strangelove, Dr Conlon or Dr Mangele and the'd be successful.
   • georgecom 2.1

     27 November 2021 at 2:39 pm

     Reiti is getting Kudos because he is quiet, low key and not scrapping with anyone or conniving to knife anyone. He stands out amongst the senior Nats.

     He is the perfect leader to stablisie things, freeze the public support at mid 20's and stop a further slide, bring a period of calm and a low key/low public profile for the party. Maybe put Bridges in as his deputy. Obviously not going to win 2023 but brings some stability and locks its support in at mid 20's. Closer to the election maybe elevate support to late 20's or even 30% and take a few % of ACT who start to drift down to their natural rate of single figure political support. Post 2023 the guy from Botany can have a tilt having found his feet. Bridges has had his turn at the top being Deputy Leader and can be blamed for 2023 loss freeing the guy from Botany to have a go.
     • georgecom 2.1.1

       27 November 2021 at 2:52 pm

       actually the more you think about it, the more you realise Reti is the right guy. Forget trying to win 2023 and set sights on 2026. 2 years of stable and low profile opposition, a nice guy leading the party who doesn't inspire anyone but doesn't greatly offend anyone either. Spend 2 years consolidating and look to get party support to 30%, even slightly above maybe. That in itself is a significant win for National. Stop the flow of votes to ACT and start to graft some on them back. Push ACT back to the minor party is naturally is.

       Reti is not going to be the 'every issue to every person' type leader Seymour currently is, but nor will Reti be caught with his pants down at election time trying desperately to keep every pot from boiling over that Seymour will find himself in. But come election time when people start to realise Seymour is talk but no action, some of them will want to revert to a party with a stable leader, that's what Reti will have shown. They will prefer the nice quiet persona of Reti to the cobbled together bunch Seymour has. It won't have people flocking back to National but will win back some of that vote which has swung over to ACT. And when that guy from Botany takes over he can do some more work and suddently National finds itself polling in the mid 30's and ACT is back round 6-7% which is it natural electoral position.
3. woodart 3

   27 November 2021 at 10:09 am

   cant build anything successful without good foundations, and that is really the big problem for the nats. what do they actually stand for? they have been outflanked by their parasite on one side ,and labour on the other. no amount of wallpaper can cover the cracks in the foundation……their only saving grace is that winston isnt around to further complicate things.
   • cathy-o 3.1

     27 November 2021 at 11:58 am

     "cant build anything successful without good foundations,". Possibly. they don't have good foundations and never have had, but the thing they are very good at is winning elections.
4. AB 4

   27 November 2021 at 10:28 am

   What National Needs To Do

   De-register your party and go away. A toxic ideology attracts unpleasant people – and not many voters like you any more.
   • Byd0nz 4.1

     27 November 2021 at 10:39 am

     Absolutely right there is nothing good about the nasty party, better to disband it and bury it face down with the headlines of this putrid post
5. Blazer 5

   27 November 2021 at 10:37 am

   No sweat for National with….'Luxona roll on deodorant'-

   roll on…Tuesday!
6. GreenBus 6

   27 November 2021 at 10:40 am

   Swallow dead rat, join ACT. Rimmer boss. Natz the handbrake.
   • mary_a 6.1

     27 November 2021 at 5:59 pm

     Hee hee, brilliant GreenBus (6)
7. Foreign waka 7

   27 November 2021 at 10:49 am

   Somehow in all of this wrangling it seems to be forgotten that the majority of the NZ population that has to cope with not just the virus. Financial management is now being conducted by a minister with an Arts degree but hey maybe that is what gets us through? Increases in inflation to a real level of some 8%, rates or rent on mostly fixed income recipient's become absolutely unaffordable, issues with access to the health care systems other than covid, constant barrage by those who are in government jobs, protected from these chilly head winds, espousing socio and economic nonsense like gender ID, shutting city centers for traffic without alternatives, failure of law and order management as gangs running the show very soon completely, debt levels that will bite the 20-30 year old like nothing before, elderly can now take the way out with a dead wish and the list goes on. Its like the tower to Babel and no end in sight.

   I recon National should consolidate, concentrate on getting the best team together, identify issues of true value to the community, find solutions and get a coherent message out. With the way things are going they have a good chance if they can get their ego in check.
   • Pete 7.1

     27 November 2021 at 1:20 pm

     Can one do an Arts degree and study economics?

     Can one be in charge of financial management as a minister having failed uni economics papers but graduated in Zoology and then be seen as some sort of economic guru?
     • ghostwhowalksnz 7.1.1

       27 November 2021 at 5:12 pm

       Simpler than that. he started in Vetininary Science but failed to make into Vet School after first year cut off. Thats why his major was Zoology… eventually

       Seemed have become a disingagd student with more interests outside of studying. fell; into Student radio and it went from there especially as radio frequencies were auctioned off for a song and began a new private station in New Plymouth with others in the Student radio miliuie
   • Patricia Bremner 7.2

     27 November 2021 at 3:03 pm

     The gangs have been worse. They had cover of commercial activity. They are now exposed. Many are deported Australian problems.

     Debt. Our debt against GDP is among the world best.

     Housing, shortages and interrupted supply line aside, we are getting to grip with creating a pipeline.

     Vaccinations, with few exceptions we will be among the highest vaccinated and have been promised boosters as needed.

     Dealing with variants and competing demands. This Government has rationed our resources to their best ability. Our currently closed borders may help us against new variants in time to be effective.

     The hardest thing is convincing those who want BAU that it is impossible, as Europe has painfully found.

     We do not need Labour supporters diving into silos. The Virus Inequality and climate change are our biggest issues, and that has been laid bare. Partisan barrows should be parked and everyone needs to deal to the base problems first.
   • Craig H 7.3

     27 November 2021 at 3:07 pm

     Dr Cullen had a history doctorate but seemed to do an adequate job.
     • mac1 7.3.1

       27 November 2021 at 3:33 pm

       Doctorate in social and economic history- probably a good combination for a Minister of Finance, actually, to see how one affects the other.
     • Foreign waka 7.3.2

       27 November 2021 at 8:04 pm

       Grant Robertson is not even close to Dr Cullen. Not even close. Wishful thinking.
       • Blazer 7.3.2.1

         27 November 2021 at 8:48 pm

         He is very much like Cullen imo…the solid,unflappable adjunct to Adern ,just as Cullen was for Clark.

         Articulate,intelligent and never lost for words ,he is a big asset for this Govt.
         • Gezza 7.3.2.1.1

           28 November 2021 at 10:17 am

           I agree with you completely there.
         • RedLogix 7.3.2.1.2

           28 November 2021 at 10:23 am

           Same here. They are of course different people, but are filling a similar role.

           On top of this I'm happy to take my clue from Ad – who as an active member of Labour – will be a lot closer to what's going down than me.
     • Tricledrown 7.3.3

       28 November 2021 at 10:44 am

       PhD in the history of economics one of the youngest to achieve that as well.

       A very capable person who the Nats never wrongfooted.
       • alwyn 7.3.3.1

         28 November 2021 at 11:46 am

         "PhD in the history of economics one of the youngest to achieve that as well".

         Rubbish. He was 26 when he completed his PhD. That is probably the standard age to actually complete a history PhD. You also greatly overestimate it's range. "The history of economics" is vastly overestimating its scope.

         Here is a link to the work, You can download it from here. I'll bet you can't keep awake while reading it.

         https://era.ed.ac.uk/handle/1842/16371
         • joe90 7.3.3.1.1

           28 November 2021 at 12:23 pm

           Assuming par with US institutions.

           .

           https://www.amacad.org/humanities-indicators/higher-education/age-new-humanities-phds#32163
           • alwyn 7.3.3.1.1.1

             28 November 2021 at 12:43 pm

             The PhD scene in the UK, at least in the late 60s was quite different in the UK to the US. In the UK you would have completed all the academic papers in your Honour's year and you really only did a thesis. The US had all the specialised papers as part of the PhD. They weren't really comparable.

             On the other hand I should probably have said "That was probably the standard age" rather than "That is probably the standard age". I'm not really up to date with the current scene except to be amazed at the number of people these days who seem to start Doctorates when they retire.

             https://www.otago.ac.nz/otagobulletin/news/otago716885.html
   • Ad 7.4

     27 November 2021 at 8:31 pm

     It perplexes me how little political fight Bayly has in him – Robertson has not so much had a finger laid on him for two terms.
     • Tricledrown 7.4.1

       28 November 2021 at 11:22 am

       When you have low unemployment the govt books in good order a excellent communicator up against Nationals very light weight caucus who are wallowing in dirt and personal attacks mainly on their own.

       It's hard to make any inroads.

       National have undermined themselves by letting a bunch of Dirty Politicians take over the party. Scandal after Scandal keeps erupting. Cameron Slater et Al have pushed to have these candidates elected across the country .

       Now it's coming home to roost I don't think the National Party can push this large faction out of the party.

       Collins,Key , Bridges, Brash and even Bill English have all been involved from the Exclusive/Plymouth, tax payers Union ,Whale oil etc.

       How is the National Party going to Reform and Unite. Oh the Irony.
8. Dean Reynolds 8

   27 November 2021 at 11:01 am

   One figure which a recent poll revealed was that 4% of women under 40 support the National party. Making a white guy over 50 the new leader is not going to fix any of that.
   • Gezza 8.1

     27 November 2021 at 12:28 pm

     Yep. Females have voted for Ardern in very significant numbers. Often, on my questionning, for no other reason than they “just like her”.

     Unless Ardern screws up majorly & is unable to extricate or distance herself personally from responsibility for it, I don’t think many of those women who’ve voted for Ardern in the last two elections are going to switch to voting National.

     Not unless National presents a very credible leader, a solid, focussed performance, & an Ardern equivalent as either their No 1 or No 2.

     Bridges as leader will doom National to opposition for a third term, imo. And if he throws his hat in the ring again on Tuesday & he’s NOT elected leader, with that overweening ambition of his, he’ll be a simmering, destabilising threat they’ll need to neutralise quickly.
     • Stephen D 8.1.1

       27 November 2021 at 1:17 pm

       Can you imagine the internal chaos caused by having both Simon and Judith on the back benches.
       Sniping at each other, and undermining the front bench.

       Comedy gold😎
     • Rapunzel 8.1.2

       28 November 2021 at 6:30 am

       I disagree that it's all because "they like her" for many of them in the work place, in their homes & life generally they are her

       They know how capable they are so anyone blindly doubting hers & her ability for oversight & seeing the issues that NZ needs to work on is not just underestimating or in cases insulting her they're also insulting them

       Enough older women know this too as do many of the people who are part of their lives – that is why the Government works so well together with few, is any, petty jealousies & a lot of learning between them

       This from an unusual source tells a lot of the tale

       https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2019/05/why_national_shouldnt_fall_into_labours_trap_of_under-estimating_the_prime_minister_of_the_day.html
   • Ad 8.2

     27 November 2021 at 8:30 pm

     Females aren't coming back to National – particularly with their female leader gone in such ignimony. It's those older blokes that need the red meat thrown to them.
     • RedLogix 8.2.1

       28 November 2021 at 11:26 am

       Maybe we should just make a rule – all the women vote for Labour, all the men for National.
       • Tricledrown 8.2.1.1

         28 November 2021 at 11:49 am

         Redlogix I would make it gender neutral all those stuck in the past vote ACT /National those who are looking to the future vote Labour / greens those who can't make up their minds vote Winston Peter's.
         • RedLogix 8.2.1.1.1

           28 November 2021 at 12:08 pm

           Nah – my way is better. That way the left can forever demonise all the men and all the women are forever on the side of the angels.

           Fits the narrative better.
9. Koff 9

   27 November 2021 at 11:21 am

   It's depressing to think that a tired, out of date centre right party is still viewed as the legitimate opposition to a timid, incremental, centre left party. Surely it's time to see the development of a vibrant, progressive, left of Labour party as the real opposition. Not sure whether the Greens fit that role. National will never solve the deep seated problems of inequity in NZ, or get on with transitioning NZ to the challenges of climate change. Tbh, I don't see labour doing that either.
   • RosieLee 9.1

     27 November 2021 at 2:24 pm

     The Greens are no different from the BAU LINO. They need to align themselves closer to Extinction Rebellion – the origins of the Green Party. Greens were a militant, activist environment movement when they started out in the late 60s/early 70s. Wish we still had them today – worth taking to the streets for.
     • ghostwhowalksnz 9.1.1

       27 November 2021 at 5:43 pm

       You are making it all up .. Jeanette Fitzsimons a militant activist ?

       'She was also active in environmental organisations such as the New Zealand Biological Producers' Council and the Environmental Council and worked as an environmental consultant to local authorities'…
     • Ad 9.1.2

       27 November 2021 at 8:28 pm

       The Greens have ensured that there is nowhere for voters like you to go …

       other than just one choice: vote for the Greens or just don't vote.
10. swordfish 10

    27 November 2021 at 1:06 pm

    .

    After the budget, launch an authoritarian policy attack on gangs

    Pursue the Down-Under equivalent of the British Tories' Red Wall' Strategy … highlighting the scandal of Kianga Ora casually dumping violent out-of-control anti-socials on unsuspecting neighbourhoods … resulting in previously peaceful, community-minded (& largely Left / Labour-voting) streets being effectively terrorized … copiously quote Poto Williams & various HNZ senior managers placing sole emphasis on the rights of the violent anti-social offenders … highlight the shocking situation of their elderly neighbours like my Parents …

    … Emphasise that the problem is disproportionately coming from Underclass Māori … juxtapose that fact with the highly paternalistic Noble Savage Romanticisation of Māori by an affluent Woke that disproportionately inherited the wealth from Colonisation & now wants to force others to pay the price … compare the self-pitying narcissism & authoritarian demands of the affluent Woke with the prolonged Nightmare lower income long-term Labour voters are being forced to endure … directly relate to a Health 'Equity' policy that'll push low / low-middle income Non-Polynesians to the back of the queue, effectively transforming them into 2nd class citizens … in other words, emphasise the vicious scapegoating of a whole swathe of Labour / Green-voting working people & the elitist self-interest (camouflaged with ostentatious moral posturing) of the Brahmin "Left" faction of the Professional Managerial Class … relate to Three Waters & He Puapua.
    • SPC 10.1

      27 November 2021 at 5:32 pm

      You should write the Orewa speech for next National leader

      white working class voters should vote Trump/National to live in areas free of working class Maori and prevent woke liberals handing over rule of New Zealand to indigenous folk.
      • Tricledrown 10.1.1

        28 November 2021 at 11:05 am

        SPC They have that solution in ACT.

        National need to be a centrist Party but that will offend many existing members.

        Property investors won't be to happy if National solve the housing crisis. Property prices will fall.

        Tough on Crime $billions needed to build new prisons.ACT will undermine gun ownership laws.

        Climate change farmers will go to ACT if National try to get younger greener votes.

        National are between a rock and a hard place most of it their own making.

        Hooton,Farrer,Slater and Jordan Williams who now has taken most of Nationals votes after being deeply involved in Dirty Politics.

        4 individuals who have destroyed National for the short term gain of winning 3 elections out of 8.

        National need to clean its back house out go back to its core ,business and farming.Ditch the Plymouth brethren,Slaters etc.the entitled and get honest straight up people in charge.

        With many candidates pushed by the dirty brigade its not going to be easy.

        As these toughers will want to keep getting down and Dirty.
      • swordfish 10.1.2

        29 November 2021 at 11:40 pm

        .
        Alternatively, an argument could be made for:

        People of all incomes & ethnicities living in streets with social housing should hold their nose & vote either NZF or one of the Centre Right parties to prevent violent out-of-control anti-socials being dumped on them permanently with no hope of escape … thus preventing the affluent narcissistic ruthlessly self-interested Woke (who've disproportionately inherited the wealth from Colonisation) from viciously scapegoating them … and sadistically blaming them if they so much as object to the mayhem the cowardly Woke have so cheerfully enabled.

        Moral Lesson for the spineless Woke: Constant Violent Intimidation of Elderly = a Bad thing … not a good thing … a Bad thing. I know you’re entirely focussed on your own self-interest / prestige enhancement … but you’re morality is severely perverted.
        • SPC 10.1.2.1

          30 November 2021 at 6:49 am

          You know squat.

          Apparently you blame some group you categorise as the woke (in your view white and wealthy narcissists, who in not being right wing and thus having some concern about poverty and social injustice feel guilt for being beneficiaries of colonialism), then claiming anyone you presume to be of it has a severely perverted morality.

          So you prefer those who would provide less social housing, despite claiming to champion those who reside in it?

          As for my focus, I spent yesterday on Open Mike arguing for a reform of Kainga Ora to resolve some of its issues – not once have I seen anything from you, but an angry lashing out at others.
    • Ad 10.2

      27 November 2021 at 8:26 pm

      After COVID it would be very hard to avoid dedicated Maori health agencies, child agencies, even Police agencies … and the initial proxy for this is what is happening in the public service which is a comprehensive Maorification through cultural indoctrination. Branding, language, hiring, protocols, preferred subcontractors, all the way down to how you conduct any meeting.

      It's a massive internal shift across every single government agency, which is also affecting all the key companies that look after government agencies.

      And this era shows the reason:

      There has never been a clearer mapping of Maori deprivation and its consequences in all its forms than the vaccine rollout.
      • Tricledrown 10.2.1

        28 November 2021 at 11:33 am

        Reti is the perfect man to take votes off Labour's Maori supporters.

        Proactive down to earth getting in and helping on the ground.
11. Tiger Mountain 11

    27 November 2021 at 1:32 pm

    A rather queasy post by ADVANTAGE. At such times pundits can often produce “Do not interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake” attributed to Napoléon Bonaparte. That surely is the requirement at the moment for anyone that thinks and acts class left.

    NZ National is small at the moment, but it’s class backers are still big, very big–Finance Capital to name them. If the Nats are at a low ebb–good–lets keep them there.
    • Hanswurst 11.1

      28 November 2021 at 8:54 am

      Don't worry. Ad's just looking for a spine to run up.
12. PapaMike 12

    27 November 2021 at 2:09 pm

    If Jacinda believes that the new National will continue to founder she should quietly consider that she may for once be wrong.
    • Ad 12.1

      27 November 2021 at 8:19 pm

      I doubt she's getting advice like that.
13. gsays 13

    27 November 2021 at 2:13 pm

    You missed out sack Goodfellow.

    Then keep Reti as leader and have Willis as deputy.

    Any leaks from caucus, you lose your position.

    Or carry on, BAU, stale and pale.
    • RosieLee 13.1

      27 November 2021 at 2:20 pm

      
      • Tricledrown 13.1.1

        28 November 2021 at 11:36 am

        Or dear I say it shared leadership not leaving Women in second place.
    • RedLogix 13.2

      28 November 2021 at 11:16 am

      stale and pale.

      Bigot
      • gsays 13.2.1

        28 November 2021 at 2:12 pm

        I am too.

        I resemble that comment.
        • RedLogix 13.2.1.1

          28 November 2021 at 2:22 pm

          Not you – the meaning of 'stale and pale'. Is this your proper intention?
          • gsays 13.2.1.1.1

            28 November 2021 at 5:00 pm

            I meant the National party looks old and white, or at least their attitude is conservative and 1950's pakeha.
14. georgecom 14

    27 November 2021 at 4:42 pm

    Jared Diamond wrote a book prefacing the current situation National finds itself in. The astounding thing is that the book was written in 2005 however it is a eerily accurate portrayal of where National finds itself in 2021.
15. Michael who failed Civics 15

    27 November 2021 at 5:11 pm

    Interesting to read reports that Luxon won't deign to ask Nat MPs for their vote and John Key is doing the work on Luxon's behalf.
    • ghostwhowalksnz 15.1

      27 November 2021 at 5:18 pm

      Thats how it works . Bridges too will have his 'numbers men' working the phones on his behalf. Dont want be seen as 'horse traders'

      Its seen as grubby and it is as they have to promise and cajole to get many Mps votes who want the highest price ( for their career) for their vote.

      Other Mps will promise both sides and of course acclaim the winner whoever it is.
      • Ad 15.1.1

        27 November 2021 at 8:18 pm

        Dead right.

        The most effective hits against this government have been through proxy wars.
16. mac1 16

    27 November 2021 at 5:46 pm

    The title "What National needs to do" requires a conditional clause to follow it. When I answered I was considering "if they were to act again as an effective political party, whether in power but preferably in opposition- but as a good opposition."

    Others might be considering "What National needs to do if it wants to get back into power; others "if we want to get up out of the political gutter of dirty politics and shady deals"; others again, "if they want my vote again"; some "if they want me to be a member"; others still "if we don't want the rabid Right, the rabbit-holing conspiracy theorists, the fundamentalists, the anti-vaxxers, the gun lobbyists, the militarists, the sociopathic big business/rich listers, the Rapturists, the cultists, the empire builders, the racist and the mysogynistic bigots, to gain political control of this country in these turbulent and uncertain times."

    The conditional clause beginning with a simple word "If" defines what we want, what we seek, what is our basic condition of survival, of prosperity, of a fruitful and rewarding life.
17. bwaghorn 17

    27 November 2021 at 6:00 pm

    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300464783/national-party-leadership-john-key-calling-mps-urging-them-to-back-chris-luxon

    They should probably tell key to bugger off.
    • Ad 17.1

      27 November 2021 at 8:17 pm

      He's the signal from the banking industry that they need. Follow the money, you get to the campaign pretty quickly.

      Also his column two months ago was very effective and made the government sit up. Not all ex-PM's wade into government policy and attack the sitting PM front on so effectively.
      • Blazer 17.1.1

        27 November 2021 at 8:51 pm

        I hope Luxona is not a bald faced liar like…Honkey Tonks.
        • Tricledrown 17.1.1.1

          28 November 2021 at 11:39 am

          Luxon another Mueller out of his depth no charisma.National need stability otherwise ACT will become the largest opposition Party.
      • bwaghorn 17.1.2

        27 November 2021 at 10:13 pm

        I noted that that story got edited soon after I posted it saying key wasn't manning the phone, says to me that they are far from pulling in the same direction yet.
    • georgecom 17.2

      28 November 2021 at 12:00 am

      so that "nice mr key, who is pretty smart and will get me some more" is out collecting votes for that "nice guy from botany"

      but there is no link between the 2 ay, no prior attempt to link the 2
      • ghostwhowalksnz 17.2.1

        28 November 2021 at 10:24 am

        Key was revealed in the media to be 'ringing around' National Mps

        Then in a classic Key 'semi-denial' hes straight onto those outlets to say he was 'returning calls'.

        When you leave a message they call you back !

        Classic Key misinformation. In the old days he would even get his pushback as anonymous 'sources say'. But no longer the clout he once had and now the source is attributed to Key himslef.

        The old dog still uses his old tricks
        • georgecom 17.2.1.1

          28 November 2021 at 1:16 pm

          the I don't have any kiwirail shares approach. oh, well I might have had a few months back. Um maybe 10, oh yes 10,000. Or maybe 50,000, or um maybe 150,000. yes, probably 500,000 but I sold them before I made a statement in the house, um well I sold most, well er some, before I made that statement in the house.
          • ghostwhowalksnz 17.2.1.1.1

            28 November 2021 at 1:24 pm

            Theres much worse than that.

            The smear from the PMs office over Andrew Little and and some SIS briefings was much more that a little shifting the goalposts over phone calls.

            Eventually the emails from a top public servant explicitly said 'spoke to the PM' which would have meant Key had made a false claim when he said 'knew nothing'

            They denied all that with an interesting doge, as they claimed what he really meant was 'spoke to the PMs office'

            Over the years theres been 'got the email, but didnt read it' or 'signature was someones elses just looked like mine' and 'documents contradict the PM means the documents are wrong'
18. Stuart Munro 18

    27 November 2021 at 6:34 pm

    By and large these are fair tactical suggestions – but National is losing the war at the strategic level. They need to have a little think about what they really stand for, and what they can offer working folk who might share their values the values they once professed.

    Attacking Labour is all well and good, but doing so over Covid is not a viable strategy. National need to get out of the reflexive carping mode, and make criticisms founded in fact with a shelf life of not less than several weeks – not Hoskings' attention span or Malpass's press cycle, much less Whaleoil's ablative 'fact' half-life.

    Play away from Covid, and concentrate on the ideals that traditionally won the party support: self reliance, not local govt rorts, productivity, not imported exploitable labour, and local businesses, not offshore funders. Might have to ditch the party bureaucracy for this, but they are contributing less value than they seem to offer on paper, or the party would be doing rather better.
19. Adrian 19

    27 November 2021 at 10:39 pm

    This is not Key as ex-Nat leader, this is Key the Chairman of the fucking ANZ Bank, the AUSTRALIAN bank.

    Now that’s international interference in the NZ political process. The Russians have got nothing on him. Fuck him!
    • Blazer 19.1

      27 November 2021 at 10:46 pm

      Key is a patriot..he said he would hate NZ'ers to become ..tenants in their own country!…he only gets 700,000k a year at ANZ….he deserved the Order of Australia ..because he's a…wonderful …guy.
    • ghostwhowalksnz 19.2

      28 November 2021 at 9:24 am

      He is Chairman of the NZ Branch and also a board member of the ANZ in Melbourne

      The Reserve Bank said being both roles where the Melbourne board supervises the Auckland is bad governance.

      Yet nothing happened to his wearing 'two hats'

      "My biggest concerns with boards is in whose interests are they working? Are they working for the parent shareholder, or the subsidiary shareholder… that's a real critical challenge," he said [Orr]
      • Phil 19.2.1

        29 November 2021 at 1:22 pm

        Orr's concerns are theoretically right, but practically not really relevant.

        Firstly, the Reserve Bank requires that directors of regulated entities operate at all times in the best interests of the company, not their shareholder. It's explicitly a requirement for their constitutions to plainly state that, and it overrides the flexibility in the Companies Act s131. It may come as a shock to many of you, but directors of prudentially regulated firms take their legal obligations incredibly seriously. Failure to act in accordance with those regulatory obligations kills any prospect of that director being on another board, and juicy paychecks are a powerful motivator.

        Secondly, in the event that an Australian parent-bank got into distress, the Reserve Bank would immediately be on the phone with their Australian counterparts at APRA and agreeing a co-ordinated solution. At the same time they'd be writing bespoke Conditions of Registration making it impossible for the NZ subsidiary to send a single dollar of dividends back to Aussie.

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