Which Labour Party Conference is Brook Sabin at?

Written By: - Date published: 7:07 am, November 7th, 2015 - 148 comments
Categories: Andrew Little, labour, spin, trade, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags: ,

Andrew Little Labour Conference-1

Day one of the Labour Party has passed. Numbers are damned good for a provincial centre, over 520 registered delegates not counting observers. The mood is upbeat with some very good speeches last night, a well deserved gold badge for Maryan Street, and much emphasis on the importance of activists in what we do for the party. And last night was marked by much laughing and singing and the occasional imbibing of liquid refreshments and despite suggestions to the contrary Stephanie Rodgers and I did not eat all the pies.

So this morning I was rather surprised to wake up and see replay video of Brook Sabin talking about the first day.  To him it was all crisis.  The party was bitterly divided.  The language he used about the party bore no resemblance to what I had witnessed.

Andrew Little was said to have a major problem, the release of the TPP was a “six thousand page grenade thrown straight into the Labour Party conference”. The trade deal would “eventually” worth $2.7 billion dollars per year to the New Zealand economy (doncha love it when the media unquestionably adopts the Government spin).  And Labour was set to oppose the deal because it prevented New Zealanders from banning the sale of land to overseas persons.

Little was then attacked for being unable to “give a straight answer” on whether Labour opposed the deal.  Jesus Mary and Joseph.  The text has only just been released.  It is no normal document.  Every single page is full of mind numbing legalese.  It will take months and months for a well researched organisation to properly understand the implications.  Of course Labour will have to take some time to properly consider the implications.

Sabin’s commentary involved the worst sort of spin.  It is not surprising that TV3 post Campbell is struggling if the quality of this commentary is indicative of what happens.

Basically it felt like TV3 was running gotcha questions for the Government.  If Little said that Labour opposed the deal they would have been branded as economic luddites.  If Little had said that Labour supported the deal despite all of the deal’s flaws Labour would have been branded as hypocrites and unfit to rule because they had taken such a knee jerk response to an incredibly complex document.

Obviously the Labour Party needs to go through a process to make a final decision. I am not breaching any confidences by saying that some within caucus are supportive of free trade.  And I am confident that further analysis of the investor state resolution procedures will also trigger the breach of another of Labour’s bottom lines that “Corporations cannot successfully sue the Government for regulating in the public interest”.

I don’t expect a final response soon from the party. I doubt that it can make a final call on the protection of Pharmac because as far as I am aware that detail has not been released and is in a still hidden document. And the bottom line on meaningful gains for farmers in terms of tariff reduction and trade access will need to be assessed properly although the Dairy Industry’s initial response suggests that the gains are marginal at best.

But it would be great if the reporting on the conference involved talk about what was actually happening.  Rather than poorly designed spin trying to create the impression of a crisis.

148 comments on “Which Labour Party Conference is Brook Sabin at? ”

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  1. sabine 1
    7 November 2015 at 7:14 am

    it has to be crisis, no way could the Labour party akshully be trying to get its stuff together..

    always remember, labour is a sell out, labour is for the 10 %, labour is for themselves, there are no labour members that are not rich cats, of course Labour will never ever do anything good to anyone under any circumstances. Cause……(insert whatever).

    Lets all hold hands, sing kumbaya, and demand a new leader of the Labour Party, otherwise the sky will fall on our hands.

    • Colonial Viper 1.1
      7 November 2015 at 2:03 pm

      Labour isn’t “going to get its stuff together.”

      • te reo putake 1.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 2:14 pm

        Shame you’re not here, CV. You’d be able to see how wrong you are. This has been the most united conference I’ve been to since the Clark years and it’s wonderful to see, It’s been really noticeable how much good humour and good will is being shown around the hall. I put a lot of that down to Little’s leadership; he’s obviously got caucus in line for starters, and the results flow from there.

  2. Blue 2
    7 November 2015 at 7:50 am

    It’s TV3. He’s likely trying to be the heir apparent to Paddy Gower.

    The angle they want to sell is ‘Labour in crisis!!!’. If there is no ‘crisis!!!’ they will just imagine one and report on that.

    Meanwhile, across the ditch:

    http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/australia-could-be-sued-for-billions-by-foreign-companies-for-new-laws-under-tpp-20151106-gksbjx.html

  3. North 3
    7 November 2015 at 7:50 am

    Oh you’re not quite fair to your near namesake there Sabine. I mean Brook’s achieved a couple of hours of skim of the stuff released…..and he’s on orders to say ‘something’.

    In the absence of knowledge and journalistic integrity he might as well gnaw risibly on a construct bone which has nothing to do with anything other than National Party spin and ‘proof by assertion’.

    Be fair man…….you wouldn’t want to take him out of the competition for ‘Media Blow Arse of the Week’ would you ?

  4. jenny kirk 4
    7 November 2015 at 8:04 am

    Totally agree, Mickey. Sabin so infuriated me with his obviously nonsensical spin on what Andrew Little was saying that I immediately shot off a message to TV3 News saying – more-or-less – what you are saying but in much less polite terms !

    And have you noticed that while Pierre Trudeau can get away with 50/50 per cent women/men in his cabinet, no-one has remarked on the fact that Labour tried something similar in recent years and was boo-ed into the ground for doing so.

    Am very fed-up with our main media. Better coverage of some events happens on Maori TV.

    • jenny kirk 4.1
      7 November 2015 at 8:32 am

      ps Before any pedant jumps on me, I meant Justin Trudeau @ 4 above, not his dad.

      • Gangnam Style 4.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 10:23 am

        Regarding quotas, I saw a report a few weeks back about the South African rugby team (they have some kind of quota system to allow black africans or something), & when the coach was asked something about it he said something like “why is it always the NZ media who asks this question, no one else cares”.

      • John Shears 4.1.2
        8 November 2015 at 10:06 am

        @ JK Thanks Jenny but I was quite clear on which Trudeau you meant but of course some of the trolls that infest this site are now blocked from distracting comments. Good work.
        Sad to see the garbage coming out of TV3 and I believe their associated radio shock jocks are even worse. Never listen to them personally.

    • The Lone Haranguer 4.2
      9 November 2015 at 10:54 am

      Perhaps Trudeau did his 50/50 cabinet thing and it was skills/effort/ability based rather than quota based?

      I think we would all like to think that all folk in NZ get to the top (or however far up the pole they get) based on some mix of skill/effort/ability/timing.

      In New Zealand within the Clark/Key cabinets we could all point out people who were there for reasons other than skill/ability/effort/timing.

      Its sad really, because it leads to underperformance in the position, and denial of opportunity of others outside of the position.

  5. Rodel 5
    7 November 2015 at 8:06 am

    Not just Sabin…Saw the words “Tracey Watkins” at the beginning of a column today. Skipped to the next page nearly as fast as I can skip images of Paul Henry.
    Just not worth using brainpower on these mediaocre types.

  6. burt 6
    7 November 2015 at 8:30 am

    What a fiasco. You guys need to take a long hard look in the mirror and see the ugly side to your ideology. Labour Party policies haven’t created a sustainable economy in NZ for over 60 years. Are you guys actually politically aware and thinking or just following in the tired footsteps of your grandparents still fighting some imaginary class war that has always been in your dim-bulb heads.

    • jenny kirk 6.1
      7 November 2015 at 8:33 am

      Bulls— burt. Go back and re-read your history books again. or maybe ….. read ’em for the first time.

      • burt 6.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 12:20 pm

        Go back and re-read history books …

        Firstly, I don’t think the last 60 years is history book material and secondly we can clear this up pretty easily.

        Can you name the last Labour PM that wasn’t thrown out of government with the country in recession.

        Clue: Nash or Fraser ?

        • Expat 6.1.1.1
          8 November 2015 at 1:13 pm

          Hey Burt, you don’t have to use the history books to prove your wrong, just your short memory of only a few years ago when NZ had the lowest unemployment in the western world, no national govt since before Muldoom has ever provided NZ with low unemployment, check the department of statistics for the evidence, biggest problem is for most tending towards the right is that they disagree with factual evidence and glorify their own unsubstantiated beliefs. Unfortunately NZ is being managed on the BOB management style, Based on BS. Furthermore, history will prove that this govt was no better than the Muldoom era.

    • dv 6.2
      7 November 2015 at 8:42 am

      sustainable economy

      Huh
      Current debt
      NZ$ 88,842,587,375

      • burt 6.2.1
        7 November 2015 at 8:57 am

        Yep, that’s right. Still recovering from the recession we were in before the GFC. But Clark didn’t need to sell any of her 5-6 houses after running policies which created high interest rates, high inflation and stagnant wages. Low paid workers funded billboards and she kept her salary while ‘the workers’ suffered,

        I know, cover your ears and close your eyes and shout la la la not listening.

        • RedLogix 6.2.1.1
          7 November 2015 at 9:03 am

          Hilarious – I wondered how long it would take burt to blame Labour for it.

          Funny how one mild little seasonally driven recession about 7 – 8 years ago has managed to drive us into $88b worth of debt.

          • burt 6.2.1.1.1
            7 November 2015 at 3:59 pm

            RedLogix

            Funny how one mild little seasonally driven recession about 7 – 8 years ago has managed to drive us into $88b worth of debt.

            Last time we had a mild little seasonally driven recession treasury were not predicting structural deficits and at least a decade before the country would have a surplus.

            I think, like the assertions that Labour governments help workers, that you have re-written what happened to fit your predetermined world view. I though you were above such blatant fabrication of the past with nut-job revisionist assertions like mild little seasonally driven recession for the state of the economy after 9 years of Labour.

            • RedLogix 6.2.1.1.1.1
              7 November 2015 at 5:28 pm

              Oh dear burt is back withretrospective validations.

              • burt …
                7 November 2015 at 6:08 pm

                I’m flattered it’s all about me.

                This mild little seasonal recession we had, I think you’re rewriting history calling it that. Perhaps, since I didn’t use any bold or italics or block quoting, you could respond to that ?

        • dv 6.2.1.2
          7 November 2015 at 9:14 am

          Wot recession Burt?

          Oh that little one caused by a drought.

          AND GFC
          So what did the Natz do – gave tax breaks

          • burt 6.2.1.2.1
            7 November 2015 at 11:56 am

            Yes, and stopped the totally unsustainable position where 75% of high school teachers were classified as ‘rich pricks’ in the tax system because Cullen couldn’t understand fiscal drag and was fighting some imaginary class war by keeping everyone poor. Keeping everyone poor while the state was spending like a drunken sailor driving high inflation and high interest rates which are great for the wealthy but totally screw low earners.

            • dv 6.2.1.2.1.1
              7 November 2015 at 12:23 pm

              couldn’t understand fiscal drag

              What about the indexing of tax rates suggested by Cullen in 2005

              The Government’s widely mocked plan to increase tax thresholds might not be implemented at all, Finance Minister Michael Cullen hinted today.

              Now i wonder who were the wide mocker.!!!
              Maybe the mockers didnt understand fiscal drag Burt

              • burt …
                7 November 2015 at 12:27 pm

                But he didn’t do that did he. Good idea, pity his ideology wouldn’t let him cut taxes because he could find a way to do it without people earning more than a beneficiary getting some benefit from their own hard work.

                • Matthew Whitehead …
                  7 November 2015 at 1:36 pm

                  You clearly do not understand how taxes work or how little most people are paying.

                  • burt …
                    7 November 2015 at 1:41 pm

                    Excuse me… I don’t understand how tax works. OMG…. next you’ll be telling me high interest rates and high inflation hurt investors and speculators and are great for low wage workers.

                    But back to this tax thing…. I’ve been paying it for over 45 years. Run my own business through about 30 of those. But sure, I don’t agree it’s right to pluck the goose with the least amount of hissing rather than have a fair tax system so I know nothing about socialist taxation.

              • burt …
                7 November 2015 at 12:30 pm

                One more question dv,

                Do you blame the government for not doing something sensible or the opposition for opposing it?

                • dv …
                  7 November 2015 at 6:16 pm

                  Do you blame the government for not doing something sensible or the opposition for opposing it?

                  What was the something sensible?

                  • burt …
                    7 November 2015 at 6:35 pm

                    That thing Cullen couldn’t bring himself to do. Adjust tax thresholds so the the stated policy intention of 1999 to make the top 5% of earners pay more tax was kept rather than just fleecing as much as possible from as many as possible.

            • Tracey 6.2.1.2.1.2
              7 November 2015 at 2:17 pm

              Wow now ur going back a decade… wakey wakey burt

              • burt …
                7 November 2015 at 2:57 pm

                Did you notice I was going back 6 decades when I noted that Labour haven’t produced a sustainable economy in over 60 years.

                wakey wakey Tracey.

        • Expat 6.2.1.3
          8 November 2015 at 2:12 pm

          Burt, in case you didn’t know, interest rates are driven by global pressures, Govts have no control over, don’t forget that the GFC was result of extreme greed for which all countries payed the price for. By the way we’re listening, it’s just that you seem to be misrepresenting the undeniable facts, you know, there the things that contain the proof. Remember, nearly everyone had a job under Clark, but if you look at the stats for Muldoon, Bolger, Richardson and Key you’ll see that high unemployment is an ideology that keeps wages low, problem is that the cost of high unemployment reduces everyone’s income including the govts, which has much higher costs, dole, healthcare.

          • Colonial Viper 6.2.1.3.1
            8 November 2015 at 2:19 pm

            there were more jobs during Clarks years because debt based money was flooding the nz economy. nothing special about that.

            • Expat 6.2.1.3.1.1
              8 November 2015 at 3:38 pm

              Hi Viper, Except that it produced surpluses rather than deficits, I know which one I prefer.
              Can you really say that todays position is better?

    • NZJester 6.3
      7 November 2015 at 9:06 am

      Another person ignoring the fact that National rode out the start of their term in office by borrowing this country into debt against a good credit rating that we had thanks to Labour yet again paying off debt left by a previous National Government.
      Why is it that all previous Labour governments have been able to pay off overseas debt while funding important things like infrastructure, schools and health services, yet National is unable to do that while running up a bigger debt?
      Labour had quite a lot of budget surpluses, while National has only recently managed to make it look like they have a surplus by under funding everything.
      Their tiny surplus for 2015 was money taken from the EQC, Education, Health, transport and housing sectors. Money all those areas could not afford to loose.
      Small and medium sized businesses do much better under a Labour government than a National one as there are more customers who can afford their goods.
      The only businesses making out well under National tend to be the ones owned by offshore multi national companies that are sucking out lots of capital from our country.

      • burt 6.3.1
        7 November 2015 at 12:00 pm

        This ‘paying off debt’ meme… You do know that during the 9 years of socialist tyranny the state debt was paid down but private debt went through the roof. Individuals, people… ( remember people – politics is to serve them not them politics) racked up more and more debt while high taxes made the state flush with cash. Is this wealth transfer from private to state what ‘looking after working people’ is supposed to be about ?

        • Dialey 6.3.1.1
          7 November 2015 at 12:53 pm

          Let me see now, socialist tyranny, huh. Which government stripped Canterbury of its democratic elections? Which government indulges in the the collection of metadata from the population by a hugely invasive secret service?
          Which government steals from the poor to dole out to the rich? aaahh that’s right it’s the right wing neocon National government.

          • burt 6.3.1.1.1
            7 November 2015 at 1:36 pm

            Dialey

            That’s excellent use of talking points. Some really good fighting the man buzz words all in one comment.

            But, just out of interest, do you think high interest rates and high inflation undermining the spending power of low earners and giving great returns to investors and speculators is what a Labour government sets out to achieve ?

        • mickysavage 6.3.1.2
          7 November 2015 at 1:16 pm

          So Burt are you disappointed because Helen Clark did not micro manage private debt?

        • linda 6.3.1.3
          7 November 2015 at 4:37 pm

          you do realize private debt is responsibly of individual who takes on the debt if you have taken out a mortgage you cant afford thats your problem you must pay it back .Dr Cullen paid off the government debt how do you think your key government has been able to borrow 88 billion dollars and lets not forget your key has put all our eggs in one basket its turning to custard you need to look in the mirror and take responsibility for your own debt and the actions of your government ,

        • Macro 6.3.1.4
          8 November 2015 at 12:56 am

          So with private mortgage debt now around $200 billion – and public debt at around $90 billion that’s a sustainable economy burt?

          • RedLogix 6.3.1.4.1
            8 November 2015 at 1:27 am

            I recall burt banging on for about six months because Helen Clark spent $800,000 that was subsequently overruled by the AG. That was about 20 cents per man, woman and child in NZ

            Now this govt has piled up $88,000,000,000 in public liability – amounting to about $22,000 for each one of us.

            According to my calculations burt will be wailing about this profligate waste of his precious taxpayers money for the next 55,000 years.

            • burt 6.3.1.4.1.1
              8 November 2015 at 11:37 am

              RedLogix

              If the National party need to kill off a court case to keep their leader in parliament – I’ll be back onto that line of dissent against them too.

              But I suspect you’d be defending them and claiming it’s ok like you did with Labour. It’s not like your an apologist for self serving corruption or anything.

        • Expat 6.3.1.5
          8 November 2015 at 1:25 pm

          Oh, and Burt, don’t forget about the FACT when you have near full employment there is a considerable amount of tax revenue to pay back the debt, but when you have very high unemployment as the current position, and little tax revenue the you have borrow to make up the short fall, sound familiar?

    • Matthew Hooton 6.4
      7 November 2015 at 1:58 pm

      Nonsense. The Labour government of 1984-1987 was the second best New Zealand has ever had.

  7. NZJester 7
    7 November 2015 at 8:41 am

    Dirty Politics is still well in place between National and the MSN when it comes to reporting on Labour.
    What ever National’s spin doctors say is the media line and the truth be damned!

  8. weka 8
    7 November 2015 at 8:44 am

    Good to hear that it’s not just the land ownership issue but also the ISDS stuff that is still being looked at.

    From Labour’s five bottom lines,


    New Zealand maintains the right to restrict sales of farm land and housing to non-resident foreign buyers

    It would be good if at some point Labour could clarify what they mean by that. Last time I had a look at the policies themselves it looked like ownership of existing residential housing would be banned (but not new builds), and that farm ownership would be restricted by the OIC being done differently (so not a ban as such). I couldn’t find anything about other kinds of land. I know they’re worried about over complicating policy, but I think it will bite them as well if they don’t be clear somewhere on what these things mean.

    • Bill 8.1
      7 November 2015 at 10:36 am

      Beyond me why the Labour Party doesn’t just state “We will develop and implement rational policies that will – restrict foreign ownership of NZ land and property
      – break the electricity monopolies
      – etc

      Simple enough for their new found patronising view of the electorate being a bit too thick to understand ‘complicated’ policy and basic enough to stop them tying themselves in fucking knots before the msm.

      It’s actually the second perspective that’s log-jamming political discourse in this country. They (Labour) try to deal with the media instead of dealing to them. And, of course, the media runs rings around them.

      The craven ‘solution’ – to blame the electorate’s lack of nous is fucking fucked. (Maybe that’s why, in Labour’s view, a fair swathe of the electorate was anti-TPPA – because we lack political nous?)

      edit – why is it always at the precise moment you hit ‘submit’ that the munted typo jumps up and screams at you?

      • weka 8.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 11:11 am

        I’d probably add a bit thus “We will develop and implement a range of rational policies that will restrict foreign ownership of NZ land and property to varying degrees” (someone can PR word that better). That way they’ve communicated that different land will be treated differently and will have different rules (which is what they appear to be doing).

        Then they can put the policies up in clear, easily accessible ways online for those that want the detail.

        Am disappointed that the GP has changed their website policy access. They used to use this,

        https://home.greens.org.nz/policy

        Now they use this,

        https://www.greens.org.nz/policy (somewhere on that page is a link to the old page but it’s not immediately apparent).

        Compare Labour, which is better than the GP new one, but still nowhere near as accessible as the old one.

        http://campaign.labour.org.nz/all_our_announced_policies

        • Bill 8.1.1.1
          7 November 2015 at 11:30 am

          No, they can’t put up detailed policy while they keep trying to dance to the media’s tune. We’ve seen time after time after time that they just tie themselves in knots when media takes ‘bites’ from their policies and questions them on it.

          What I’m suggesting is utter crap, yet pragmatic given current parliamentary party inabilities or shortcomings – keep every fucker in the dark.

  9. savenz 9
    7 November 2015 at 8:53 am

    Easy solution don’t even bother watching TV3 or TV1 for that matter.

    Good to know Labour are pulling together. Lets hope we get real and clear policy.

    • Lanthanide 9.1
      7 November 2015 at 11:34 am

      If we could force everyone to stop watching TV1 or TV3, then that might be a solution.

      Unfortunately that’s not possible, nor would we want it to be. So the fact that these reporters are mis-representing reality to such an extent is an issue of concern that must be addressed.

      • Tracey 9.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 11:38 am

        How though Lanth, that’s the eternal question that bobs about in my head.

        Infotainment is what passes for news these days

        • Lanthanide 9.1.1.1
          7 November 2015 at 1:25 pm

          I have no idea.

          The first step to solving any problem to acknowledge there is a problem, rather than ignore it as savenz is suggesting or National is doing with child poverty.

          • Tracey 9.1.1.1.1
            7 November 2015 at 5:11 pm

            Sadly the problems have been identified long ago… but solutions…

          • savenz 9.1.1.1.2
            7 November 2015 at 9:23 pm

            Not watching is a solution. When ratings fall the TV channel has to change tack or go under.

            If you keep watching, but are unhappy with what you are watching, you are part of the problem!

            There are plenty of ways to get real news without bothering to find out the press releases of the Nats from our TV stations re purposed as ‘news’ each day.

            • Michael who failed Civics 9.1.1.1.2.1
              8 November 2015 at 1:32 pm

              I reckon the bosses at TV3 and TVNZ are doing their very best to make sure no one watches their programmes. Perhaps they are really undercover lefties and not the neo-fascist arseholes they so cleverly pretend to be?

  10. Nick 10
    7 November 2015 at 9:34 am

    Labour should oppose the TPPA. Simple. It’s a bad deal. Just say NO. Then, start to put alternatives out there so people can understand Labour offer options.

    • Kiwiri 10.1
      7 November 2015 at 3:25 pm

      Thanks for that. Cutting the crap and straight to the point.

    • savenz 10.2
      7 November 2015 at 9:24 pm

      +1 Nick

    • Raf 10.3
      8 November 2015 at 8:12 pm

      Well, they might, too. But I don’t understand why no one seems to want to give them time to read the damn thing properly first! Let alone consider all the various expert analyses and work out detailed responses. Patience!

  11. Paul 11
    7 November 2015 at 9:39 am

    He is the son of a National MP.
    He can’t hide his bias.

    And the solution is easy.
    Like savenz, I don’t watch TV3 or TV1 news.
    I’m not interested in corporate propaganda.

    • Gangnam Style 11.1
      7 November 2015 at 10:25 am

      Neither, I have not seen Gower or Sabin or whoever TV1 has reporting politics in months, I feel saner for it.

    • NZSage 11.2
      7 November 2015 at 1:55 pm

      I’m with you on that Paul… unfortunately many do watch it and then get taken by the bullshit National dogma it spews out… just look at batty Burt’s comments above.

    • linda 11.3
      7 November 2015 at 4:41 pm

      son of graham capples bff

    • Nessalt 11.4
      7 November 2015 at 4:49 pm

      AK, founder of this blog is the son of the national party regional chair in the hawkes bay.

      Word from london is he’s working for a private property speculator specializing in off shore investment?

    • Nessalt 11.5
      7 November 2015 at 5:33 pm

      the point being to my earlier comment is that you shouldn’t bring the sins of the father to the table.

  12. tc 12
    7 November 2015 at 9:40 am

    Dirty politics alive and kicking within NACTs media mouthpieces…..like we needed reminding.

    Jonolist, repeater, PR plagiarist, call it whatever you like just don’t call it journalism, we’ve pretty much seen the back of that across the entire MSM now.

  13. RedBaronCV 13
    7 November 2015 at 9:41 am

    Well If big if TPPA is ratified then the opposition parties need to move on it when they win:
    – start signing bilateral treaties with other governments that preserve tariff reductions – make it about any good bits of trade
    -dump all the rest of the US dictated rubbish ( and the same with our other FTA’s)
    that infringe sovereignty
    – when the bilaterals are in place
    – give six months notice

    Job done, tariff reductions if viable, no other rubbish clause
    US won’t sign – tough

    • weka 13.1
      7 November 2015 at 11:15 am

      but Labour don’t actually mind the TPP as long as they get their 5 bottom lines met. Their approach is to try and fix the two that aren’t met (or one, it’s hard to tell).

      I’ve heard a rumour that James Shaw thinks it will be easier to fix than oppose too but couldn’t find any detail on that.

      • Tracey 13.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 11:39 am

        Hmmm, maybe oppose and announce negotiation of fta’s with specific markets/countries. Preferably NOT those whose corporates have the history of suing governments.

      • Karen 13.1.2
        7 November 2015 at 6:01 pm

        James Shaw said renegotiating clauses in the TPP would be better than walking away in an interview with Jessica Williams for Radio Live, but the interview doesn’t seem to have been archived.

        • weka 13.1.2.1
          7 November 2015 at 7:46 pm

          did you hear the interview?

          • Karen 13.1.2.1.1
            9 November 2015 at 2:09 pm

            Sorry Weka, I just noticed your question.

            I didn’t listen to the interview, just read reference to it in Jessica Williams twitter account. She said there was a long pause when she asked Shaw whether he’d leave the TPP and then he said the thing about it may be better to fix it than walk away. I then saw a couple of references to the interview confirming this content in Russell Brown’s twitter account.

            • weka 13.1.2.1.1.1
              9 November 2015 at 2:51 pm

              Thanks Karen. I’ve seen Williams’ tweets (and the replies). I asked her later if the audio got published but she didn’t reply. I’ve not seen any other reference to it other than her tweets, so it’s very hard to know what Shaw meant without context. I didn’t see Brown’s tweets, will have a look when I get the chance.

        • Colonial Viper 13.1.2.2
          8 November 2015 at 8:37 pm

          Shaw is mistaken. NZ has no power to force the US Congress to re-vote on an altered TPP.

          • weka 13.1.2.2.1
            9 November 2015 at 3:01 pm

            No-one here knows what Shaw said, so I think it’s a bit premature to say he is mistaken (or interpret what he said).

            Jessica Williams tweeted that Shaw said it would be better to fix the problems than dump it. I don’t know what that means and haven’t been able to find anything online about it other than the tweets,

            https://twitter.com/mizjwilliams/status/651202339936665600

            • tracey 13.1.2.2.1.1
              9 November 2015 at 3:03 pm

              and no othe rjournalist thought to speak directly to Shaw to get clarification? Colour me surprised!

              • weka …
                9 November 2015 at 3:28 pm

                It’s possible that it’s a non-event when seen in context, and that Williams was making a point about something in her tweets that isn’t that relevant.

  14. Saarbo 14
    7 November 2015 at 10:01 am

    TV3 news is so far off limits in our household these days I dindt even know he still existed.

    • Whispering Kate 14.1
      7 November 2015 at 10:38 am

      I agree, NZ news on all channels is just fluff and rubbish, I work on the theory that if it’s bad enough I will get it on The Standard. We selectively watch stuff which we tape and there’s bugger all on offer. Have never subscribed to Sky which is a rip off every way you look at it and we watch stuff from the internet as well. Another wonderful thing, I have always been a huge reader, now in the evenings I can read great books – non-fiction, fiction from a realm of great writers world wide.

      It beggars belief that people can just sit and watch mindless drivel night after night – surely we are not a nation of dim witted people – is it the food people eat these days that dulls their brains. We don’t seem to be so politically aware, I remember when we were young having lively debates around our dinner table and trashing political parties who were not doing their jobs. Both sets of grand parents were of opposite political affiliations and at Xmas and family gatherings had to be kept almost apart for their arguing and carrying on. People seemed to be very active in “running the government” from their conversations with each other.

      My grouch for today – best advice is to join a library and get reading – its wonderful and very informative. Plus Aljazeera – I mustn’t forget – we watch that quite a bit for world-wide news.

      • srylands 14.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 12:21 pm

        “It beggars belief that people can just sit and watch mindless drivel night after night – surely we are not a nation of dim witted people ”
        ____________________
        They don’t. Well the ferals do, but the rest of us watch Netflix USA and BBC iplayer using our VPNs.

        Broadcast TV is dead as dead. The Government should have sold TVNZ when it could have got something for it.

        I agree that Aljazeera is good. You need to be aware of the passive anti-Israel bias, but they are hardly alone in that flaw.

      • greywarshark 14.1.2
        7 November 2015 at 8:21 pm

        W Kate – +1
        the name reminds me of Whispering Hope with Jo Stafford and Gordon MaCrae.
        It is an old lovely duet with a quiet hopeful viewpoint that we need just now. See if you like it.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epZ5jebeY5k

    • burt 14.2
      7 November 2015 at 12:11 pm

      Yes, put your head in the sand and blame the media. Never, never, never reflect on what ‘your team’ may be doing wrong because it’s all the media and the baby eating Natz that report it wrong because they just don’t understand that 1930’s policies that haven’t worked for 60 years will work if we just give it one more try.

      • Paul 14.2.1
        7 November 2015 at 3:40 pm

        It is the media. Educate yourself burt.
        It is owned by corporates with an agenda.
        And it wants governments that are subservient to corporations.
        How are you so ill-informed ?

      • Expat 14.2.2
        8 November 2015 at 1:37 pm

        Burt, it appears that you are the one with your head in the sand, can I ask if you if you only have one eye?

  15. Bill 15
    7 November 2015 at 10:21 am

    If Little said that Labour opposed the deal they would have been branded as economic luddites. If Little had said that Labour supported the deal despite all…

    I suspect this is a fairly widespread way of viewing things within the Labour Party. Pretty sickeningly, it’s a way of seeing things that puts media above people.

    Given how NZ is at present, if you are opposition and the media aren’t slamming you, you’re doing something wrong. If you try to dance to the media’s tune, your doing something wrong. And if you don’t understand those simple points, you’re doing something wrong.

  16. Tracey 16
    7 November 2015 at 11:36 am

    The show that Campbell Live had to be dumped for has been, well, dumped. Funny that.

    Brook Sabin may be the last remaining political reporter at TV3, I assume paddy Gower is covering Key covering the Royals this weekend?

  17. Reddelusion 17
    7 November 2015 at 11:41 am

    beyond leftie activist the view of the average kiwi is that the Labour Party is a joke, and a bad one at that

  18. The Baron 18
    7 November 2015 at 11:58 am

    Oh Greggles, you’re such a breathless fanboi though that you’re hardly objective. That plus your incredible record for calling things completely wrongly (most recent example AECT) and you’re history of disasterously damaging “advice” (remember your own trust-gate) I really don’t see how you’re in a position to call someone else’s credibility

    • srylands 18.1
      7 November 2015 at 12:24 pm

      ouch. The AECT elections were a fine example of the voters seeing through utter crap policies.

      • DoublePlusGood 18.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 6:59 pm

        No, they were a fine example of how you can get people to vote for basically anything if you can throw around $300 bribes.

        • BM 18.1.1.1
          7 November 2015 at 7:04 pm

          Here, have some of your money back = bribe.

          I can see why the left is about as popular as a barbed wire enema.

          • DoublePlusGood 18.1.1.1.1
            8 November 2015 at 8:22 am

            That’s precisely what I’m getting at – pretending in their advertising that money that they would be getting back anyway is all due to their good governance.

  19. Kevin 19
    7 November 2015 at 12:23 pm

    I just take comfort in the fact that fuck-all people watch TV3 news these days and Sabin is pretty much talking to himself.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20
    7 November 2015 at 1:18 pm

    There’s really only one thing that Labour has to do here – throw a suit of defamation at Sabin/TV3 and make it stick for a few million dollars.

    • Lanthanide 20.1
      7 November 2015 at 1:28 pm

      1. Declaring war on the media will not help Labour.
      2. Giving National more ammunition to say “Labour are a bunch of numpties” is a bad tactic.

      • Draco T Bastard 20.1.1
        7 November 2015 at 1:38 pm

        Proving that the MSM is lying is needed.

        • Lanthanide 20.1.1.1
          7 November 2015 at 1:44 pm

          Yes, but I don’t think declaring war is the way to do it. I just have no idea what is.

          • Paul 20.1.1.1.1
            7 November 2015 at 3:45 pm

            Kowtowing to the corporate media means defeat.
            Confronting its bias live is the solution.

            e.g. When invited no to Paul Henry’s show, every Labour or Green representative should remind the audience that Henry was a National candidate. When invited onto Seven Sharp, remind the audience of Hosking’s bias to National and pay cheque from Sky City.

            Front foot the media.

            • Matthew Hooton 20.1.1.1.1.1
              7 November 2015 at 4:09 pm

              This is actually quite a good idea. Don’t boycott. Don’t be angry. Just mention those things in passing once in each interview.

              • Stuart Munro …
                7 November 2015 at 4:33 pm

                Personally I think the old Labour solution would straighten out the likes of Paddy Gower nicely – a thorough pick handle massage was the old left’s way of dealing with gross and egregious bias, and discontinuing that practice seems to have produced a crop of “journalists” who think they will never be called to account.

                Certainly a censure of comparable rigour is called for. Spambotting him thoroughly to the point he can’t do his job might achieve the same ends.

              • Paul …
                7 November 2015 at 4:38 pm

                It would actually be very easy to make the media look complicit in its bias to the government.
                In addition, when on RNZ, it would be good to hear the Greens or Labour saying ” that’s the tenth time a government minister has not fronted this issue in the past month” or such like.

                • burt …
                  7 November 2015 at 8:36 pm

                  There is a reason why no opposition fully rogers bias reporting and that’s because when they are government they use it themselves. Be careful what you ask for kicking bias out of the media. It wasn’t that long ago that virtually all governments completely controlled the media.

                  If you support free speech you can’t choose who gets to speak and what they say, particularly with regard to the MSM.

  21. Raf 21
    7 November 2015 at 1:59 pm

    Next time he’s asked “Do you accept the TPP, yes or no?”, he should say
    “Neither. Now would you like me to explain that? Yes or no?”
    Especially if it’s that numbnuts Gower.

  22. Tanz 22
    7 November 2015 at 2:04 pm

    There is not a spare room in Palmy North this weekend, so I am not attending. Does the LP pay for airfares??

    • burt 22.1
      7 November 2015 at 3:23 pm

      There is not a spare room in Palmy North this weekend, so I am not attending. Does the LP money paid to the party by minimum wage workers get used to pay for airfares so that highly paid politicians don’t need to spend their own money attending??

  23. Michael who failed Civics 23
    7 November 2015 at 2:20 pm

    I thinks it’s worse if there are no divisions within the Labour Party as it means its members accept National-lite as the only option for attaining political office. That entails not upsetting the “business community” by questioning its divine right to extract as much profit, as quickly as possible, without regard to the fundamental human rights of workers or environmental considerations. The conference seems to be shaping up to be another choreographed cheerleading rally instead of an open and democratic forum by our country’s alternative government.

    • Raf 23.1
      7 November 2015 at 3:58 pm

      Agree. One person’s ‘internal squabbling” is another person’s fertile debate. Which I would personally prefer to a party of internally over-disciplined yes-men.

  24. Stuart Munro 24
    7 November 2015 at 4:37 pm

    It may be just what got through the MSM, but Labour’s “We agree with with 4 out of 5 parts of the TPPA” looks like a critical failure to me.

    Reporter: Excuse me sir, what do you think of Labour’s position on the TPPA?

    Elrond Halfelven: “Labour? Labour are weak. I remember when the Lange government failed…”

  25. Paul 25
    7 November 2015 at 4:53 pm

    Next time Brook Sabin interviews a Labour Party MP they should say, ” I know your Dad was a National MP and you really should learn to hide that bias a bit more Brook.”

  26. Neil 26
    8 November 2015 at 6:22 pm

    Sabin has become Gowers mini me, if you notice Sabine does the same hand gestures & emphasises words repeating them over & over, just like his mentor Gower.