World smells 100% pure bullshit

Written By: - Date published: 6:40 am, August 7th, 2013 - 223 comments
Categories: spin, trade - Tags:

We’re living a lie in New Zealand. We tell ourselves and we tell the world that we’re this amazingly environmentally conscious and sustainable country when, in fact, we’ve turned most of it into a giant farm, most of the rivers are unsafe to swim due to the farm run-off, and it would be worse, we just haven’t had the time. The Fonterra scandal may be the final straw for the 100% Pure slogan.

Of course, John Key says that 100% Pure is just a brand and everyone knows that we’re not an untouched virgin land. Well, maybe, but when you go to the world and market yourself on your nature and your cleanliness, people are going to, with justification, expect you to live up to the promise.

What the world is seeing with this latest Fonterra scandal is that New Zealand isn’t all it makes itself out to be. The damage isn’t just to Fonterra, it’s our whole brand – the whole reason that people prefer New Zealand goods and choose to visit New Zealand unravelling. We are losing the trust of the people we trade with on the very point that is our competitive advantage.

Already, scathing editorials are being written on the back of the Fonterra scandal pointing out that the 100% Pure brand is not just a marketer’s exaggeration, it’s 100% Bullshit.

And it’s the lose of that brand, or rather the trust that got people to buy into that brand, which will hurt New Zealand long after the Fonterra scandal dies. But we have no-one to blame but ourselves. We’ve been living a lie and telling the rest of the world that lie, too.

223 comments on “World smells 100% pure bullshit ”

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  1. logie97 1
    7 August 2013 at 7:10 am

    …and we have it being suggested that the Stock exchange do an investigation into the “delay” in reporting this to the share holders. The shareholders should be the last to know in the scheme of things, surely.

  2. Janice 2
    7 August 2013 at 8:12 am

    How many millions/billions will the companies/businesses that have been affected by this blunder sue Fonterra for, and who will pay? Farmers or taxpayers?

    • SpaceMonkey 2.1
      7 August 2013 at 11:43 am

      It’s ok… Fonterra is TBTF… the Government we will bail them out.

      • Colonial Viper 2.1.1
        7 August 2013 at 11:45 am

        Corporate welfare for the good of the country (well, the top 1%)

        • srylands 2.1.1.1
          7 August 2013 at 11:57 am

          Fonterra’s success benefits us all.

          • tc 2.1.1.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 1:42 pm

            yes and we aren’t paying too much for local milk…..wasn’t that a shonkey inquiry also ?

          • Draco T Bastard 2.1.1.1.2
            7 August 2013 at 5:06 pm

            No it doesn’t as our ever more polluted streams and waterways prove. The Dead Zone off the mouth of the Waikato River is one of the bigger ones in the world.

            • Blue 2.1.1.1.2.1
              7 August 2013 at 6:39 pm

              So what do you do? Close down a $20 billion company. If that’s the plan you need to have something to replace it with, that provides the same income. The impact on our economy would be catastrophic as it is 13% of our GDP. The direct and indirect jobs reliant on this company number in the thousands.

              • QoT …
                7 August 2013 at 9:15 pm

                Because our choices are absolutely limited to “the industry as it currently is” and “no industry at all”.

    • Lan 2.2
      7 August 2013 at 4:04 pm

      Well, according to a comment article on the NZ Herald site, the “farmers” aren’t too fussed about the whole thing. Such complacency. Unbelievable! And I am long term self employed, including agricultural matters. I would be extremely fussed about Fonterra business behaviour (misbehaviour) myself if I had a dairy investment.

  3. Dv 3
    7 August 2013 at 8:16 am

    Will this cause a problem for the Meridian float?

    Will the overseas buyers of Meridian look at NZ and ask is the country a ‘safe’ investment?

    • AmaKiwi 3.1
      7 August 2013 at 9:07 am

      The global financial crisis of 2008 exposed the world credit system as a house of cards.

      Greed induces drunken blindness. The world financial system is WORSE today than it was only 5 years ago. Then banks were mortgaged up to their eyeballs, failed, and had to be bailed out by governments. Today governments and the EU are mortgaged beyond anything they can ever repay. But the drunks keep lending and borrowing.

      The question is, “Can Meridian can be sold off before the bubble bursts?” Timing is everything.

  4. One Anonymous Knucklehead 4
    7 August 2013 at 8:40 am

    Key doesn’t get it: the Reuters article quotes him as saying “The right answer is for New Zealand to be absolutely sure that the safety standards are met…”

    Standards. The “high trust model” eh John.

  5. infused 5
    7 August 2013 at 8:51 am

    That should be the title for thestandard…

    I await the ban 😉

    It’s typical of these posts though… it’s just a whine. So? What are you going to do about it then Eddie?

    • Colonial Viper 5.1
      7 August 2013 at 9:00 am

      Fascinating you are so unconcerned about the economic fall out from China around this incident, and the mismanagement which led to it.

      • BM 5.1.1
        7 August 2013 at 9:13 am

        So what would the left propose we do.?
        How to we reclaim this 100% pure, a standard we’ve never had.

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1
          7 August 2013 at 9:14 am

          So you admit the slogan was a lie from the outset?

          • BM 5.1.1.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 9:20 am

            Of course it is.

            Anyone is knows anything about NZ would realize it’s complete horse shit.

            Good marketing slogan though and kudos to Labour for getting it underway.

            • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 9:28 am

              So all that has happened is that the Chinese are calling us out on our BS. Which is what the title of the post is about, idiot.

            • Tom Gould 5.1.1.1.1.2
              7 August 2013 at 9:39 am

              I saw a guy, yesterday, flick a cigarette but into a drain on Queen Street. Which puts the lie to the whole 100% Pure scam. On the other hand, perhaps it is just a branding slogan? Like “I’m lovin’ it”? Or “Just do it”? Or “the Ultimate Driving Machine”? Come the think of it, how many newly rich Chinese BMW drivers have just realised they were conned, that it isn’t actually the ultimate driving machine, and now want their money back? Where’s the China Daily editorial slating those lying Germans?

              • BM …
                7 August 2013 at 9:42 am

                Lying German scum, they need to be outed !!!

              • Colonial Viper …
                7 August 2013 at 9:44 am

                Seems you think that the standing of a nation is somehow similar in importance to a corporate marketing slogan.

                • Populuxe1 …
                  7 August 2013 at 1:44 pm

                  Seems like you can’t tell the difference. For example take any Chinese political slogan and compare it to the reality

                  • Colonial Viper …
                    8 August 2013 at 9:38 am

                    How about “we’re the manufacturing centre of the world and have trillions in forex reserves”

                    Oh whooops that’s true

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      8 August 2013 at 8:26 pm

                      It’s more your glee in siding with an epic totalitarian environmental and human rights abuser that offens me

              • TheContrarian …
                7 August 2013 at 10:50 am

                “I saw a guy, yesterday, flick a cigarette but into a drain on Queen Street. Which puts the lie to the whole 100% Pure scam.”

                Not sure 100% Pure was meant to ever suggest people in NZ don’t litter or that NZ doesn’t face issues of waste management and storm water run-off like other developed nations.

                • Plan B …
                  7 August 2013 at 11:58 am

                  It does not matter what we think the slogan means, it only matters what others think it means, They clearly think of it as more than just puffery they think it is real and that we are letting it down. For many we were the place that was still pure, that was how the world was meant to be. A better place. A cleaner place- maybe a fantasy for them, or an ideal or something. It also said that we could be trusted so our food could be trusted.
                  We were custodians for this ideal and we let everybody down- including ourselves.

              • insider …
                7 August 2013 at 12:37 pm

                BMW is recalling 150k cars in China right now. There goes Germany’s reputation as an engineering leader…

                • vto …
                  7 August 2013 at 12:46 pm

                  Hardly surprising – bmw is rich man’s cortina

                  • insider …
                    7 August 2013 at 12:47 pm

                    Ouch!

                  • KJT …
                    7 August 2013 at 7:07 pm

                    Probably true, but it is still the best car to drive, of any I have owned.

                    Like riding on rails.

                    And runs on an oily rag. Much less gas than our same size mitsi.

                    Almost worth the high price of parts.

                    Not to mention the wealth redistribution. Keeping mechanics employed. 🙂

        • Lanthanide 5.1.1.2
          7 August 2013 at 9:21 am

          Well, perhaps we should start listening to Green Party policies, eh, instead of National? Surely that would be a good start?

          • BM 5.1.1.2.1
            7 August 2013 at 9:23 am

            Dung for dinner and cavorting druids, I’ll pass on that.

            • Tinfoilhat 5.1.1.2.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 9:28 am

              If you can drag yourself away from personal prejudices and preconceptions you might actually be surprised.

              https://www.greens.org.nz/policy/agriculture-and-rural-affairs-policy-towards-sustainability

              • BM …
                7 August 2013 at 9:37 am

                Are there any successful large scale dairy farms operating within NZ that follow Green principles.?

                An example that can be shown to farmers that demonstrates a feasible and practical alternative.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  7 August 2013 at 9:42 am

                  Of course there are. Several owned by foreigners.

                  • BM …
                    7 August 2013 at 9:43 am

                    Where?

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 August 2013 at 9:45 am

                      Look it up mate, not your researcher

                    • BM …
                      7 August 2013 at 9:51 am

                      I thought you may know off the top of your head.

                      If the Greens do want people to change they need to provide case studies, just bleating at people to change while offering no viable alternative is rather pointless.

                      If the Greens can demonstrate to farmers how to change from a traditionally run farm to a green principled farm without bankrupting themselves and cutting their income in half they’d get a lot more traction.

                      Farmers are practical people, you have to provide working practical solutions.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      7 August 2013 at 9:58 am

                      Interestingly accurate comment from you, BM.

                    • One Anonymous Knucklehead …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:01 am

                      Bit behind the times aren’t you BM? The information you’re referring to is more-or-less ubiquitous.

                    • vto …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:03 am

                      Alternative for farmers to what BM? You are missing a huge entire block of what you are talking about and rendering your point valueless.

                    • BM …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:08 am

                      Alternative to what.?
                      Thought that would be fairly obvious but I’ll spell it out.

                      Farmer runs farm in traditional manner(phosphates,etc)
                      Farmer milks cows and sells milk for money
                      Farmer uses money to feed family and pay bills

                      Alternative

                      Farmer runs farm along green principles
                      Farmer milks cows and sells milk for money
                      Farmer uses money to feed family and pay bills

                    • vto …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:24 am

                      Clearly, the alternative to green principles is non-green principles.

                      Non-green principles are what have been used for the last 150 years and have resulted in the environmental degradation that has now become so apparent and unavoidable.

                      If you keep going with the non-green approach then you will obviously eat up all of the environment until there is none left and the entire system will collapse. This is what has happened for example with draining the great artesian basin in central Australia. And with the dust bowls of central USA in decades past. And with so many of our own rivers. And recently beginning to destroy Canterbury’s drinking aquifers. These realities are the result of your “traditional (phosphate etc)” non-green farming principles.

                      So when you say that farmers must necessarily follow current practices “to continue to feed the family” unless they are offered an alternative which provides the same level of “continuing to feed the family (and drive the latest hilux)” then they are taking society with them down a dead-end road of destruction (as has been proved over the last 150 years)

                      Your alternative (the status quo) is not an alternative. This is the point where you posts above fall apart at the seams. The farmers have no choice but to switch to green principles. There is no choice because the alternative (status quo) is simply continuing down “Oblivion Road” and there aint no turning circle at the end.

                      kapiche?

                    • weka …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:37 am

                      Are there any successful large scale dairy farms operating within NZ that follow Green principles.?

                      An example that can be shown to farmers that demonstrates a feasible and practical alternative.

                      You really need to educate yourself BM. It depends on what you mean by large scale of course. Large industrial dairy is by it’s nature polluting and unsustainable, as is exporting milk powder is China.

                      But here is an example of a medium sized, family run organic dairy farm, that is economically viable in that it enables the family to make a living and provides employment beyond that. As well as a dairy farm, they also make dairy foods on the property (yoghurt, cream etc) and sell into South Island supermarkets and health food retailers.

                      http://www.clearwaterorganic.co.nz/our-farm.php

                      There is no reason that NZ agriculture cannot shift to sustainable methods of farming and economics.

                    • BM …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:40 am

                      Ye I agree dumping tons and tons of phosphate on the land is dumb business especially since 95% + is wasted.

                      There was quite an interesting article about some soil scientist who moved over from Dutchland or Switzerland and has a small farm up north.
                      He offers farmers in the area free advice on how to run their farms without the need of massive amounts of phosphates.

                      The farmers love him because he’s practical and offers an viable alternative.
                      As one farmer they interviewed said “it’s great to hear from some one other than the sales rep from Ravensdown who can provide another point of view and technical input”

                      This is where the greens could really make in roads and increase their vote but unfortunately, they don’t want to work with National.

                      Farmers vote blue, not red.

                    • vto …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:47 am

                      Ahaa, so you do recognise that current farming practices must change to green principles…. excellent… And yep, it is hardly wise to believe any sales rep provides the full picture on their own sector. And remember too that Ravensdown is a coop, owned by the farmers, so they also have an additional financial incentive to continue current practices.

                    • weka …
                      7 August 2013 at 10:51 am

                      There is no way in hell that NACT would support sustainable agriculture in NZ, because you can’t make shit loads of money from it. You can make a decent enough living for Kiwis, but that’s not enough for greedy people like Key and co. That’s why the GP can’t work with NACT.

                    • insider …
                      7 August 2013 at 12:46 pm

                      You’re just speaking out of prejudice weka. Go and Check the mpi website and you’ll see a range of research and farming advice offered. I’ve seen stuff there promoting low nitrogen farming models.big problem is they require more work even though they can provide a better return on capital.

                    • weka …
                      7 August 2013 at 1:55 pm

                      Provide me a link to something specific infused, and I’ll do you an analysis of whether it is sustainable or not. Low nitrogen on its own doesn’t cut it I’m afraid.

                    • insider …
                      7 August 2013 at 2:21 pm

                      That was just an example of one I know of. If you go to the sustainable farming fund section you’ll see more. You can check the research papers too. Plenty going on.

                    • weka …
                      7 August 2013 at 3:41 pm

                      The problem infused is that you think something that is ‘low nitrogen’ is an example of sustainable farming. It’s not. Sorry but I’m not going to follow some vague trail of yours in that regards when you don’t appear to know what sustainability is. Put up some links of NACT initiated sustainable farming and I’ll have a look.

                      (various govt departments are and have always been involved in parts of the sustainability sector, but my statements still stands. NACT themselves are philosophically and in practice opposed to sustainability because it is inherently incompatible with making shitloads of money).

                    • weka …
                      7 August 2013 at 4:20 pm

                      Sorry, insider.

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      7 August 2013 at 5:18 pm

                      Farmers are practical people, you have to provide working practical solutions.

                      This may come as a surprise but looking for alternative ways is actually part of the farmers job.

                    • tricledrown …
                      7 August 2013 at 8:53 pm

                      blinkered Monetarist the Canterbury plains it was on country calender last year.
                      The farm had much lower overheads and was whey more profitable!

                • vto …
                  7 August 2013 at 9:47 am

                  Sheesh BM, the cowshit is flowing from you this morning….

                  “Are there any successful large scale dairy farms operating within NZ that follow Green principles.? An example that can be shown to farmers that demonstrates a feasible and practical alternative.”

                  An alternative to what BM? This is exactly the point. Do you know what you are talking about? An alternative to what?

                • tc …
                  7 August 2013 at 10:56 am

                  checkout ‘country calendar’, I’ve seen a few on there.

                  They realised their land/animals weren’t doing well, they make a better return as they don’t spend money on the fertiliser/animal welfare costs and have extra diversity with products like free range eggs.

                  Fonterra didn’t help by abandoning the organic milk premium pricing but it’s still worth their while and there’s always Open country/tatua etc after high quality milk.

                  • KJT …
                    7 August 2013 at 7:55 pm

                    Plenty of farmers are doing the right things for the environment.

                    Losing expensive fertilizer down the creek is not good business, after all.

                    However, too many, are not.

                    Like the developers who only want to build top of the range houses, I think part of the problem is the high price and high cost of borrowing for land.

                    You have to farm intensively to make a return.

                    Farming is another place where sustainable improvements depend on getting land prices down towards reality, and young sharemilkers and farm hands into their own place, where they have an interest in making it sustainable long term, for their kids.

                    Corporate farming. Like every other business run on our current shareholding, managerial cult, corporate model, is entirely focused on short term gains.

                    Some of the old farmers, I used to know, took pride in how we looked after our land in New Zealand. I am sure they are turning in their graves these days.

                    • Macro …
                      7 August 2013 at 8:02 pm

                      it’s not just the fertilizer down the creek – it’s the cow shit as well.
                      A normal sized dairy herd has the equivalent effluent discharge of a small sized town 3500 people. With increasing production from same sized land area – this means increasing effluent to be dealt with. It’s not always possible to just pump it onto the paddock….
                      Large amounts end up in our waterways.

                • Macro …
                  7 August 2013 at 7:11 pm

                  http://www.gvd.co.nz/greenvalleydairies/organic.html

                  http://www.heb.co.nz/about-us/history.aspx third paragraph from the bottom

                  “The Pulman family remains the owner of HEB Construction Ltd. The family have other business interests including Marphona Farms and Green Valley Dairy. They are associated with a number of charitable trusts to whom “HEB” gives freely of its time and financial support. “HEB” is committed to giving back to the communities in which we participate.”

                  this is the largest biodynamic dairy farm in the southern hemisphere….

            • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.2.1.2
              7 August 2013 at 9:30 am

              The world is running out of affordable resources. We need to go Green now in order to avoid some very negative outcomes for very large numbers of people.

              • infused …
                7 August 2013 at 12:30 pm

                Won’t happen until we run out. You know that.

                Each time we come remotely close, something else comes along (fracking).

                • insider …
                  7 August 2013 at 12:50 pm

                  Bloody people with their cursed ingenuity. How dare they find non Darwinian solutions

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    7 August 2013 at 2:01 pm

                    Indeed. Why don’t they just have to common decency to roll over and die for Malthus.

                    • Galeandra …
                      7 August 2013 at 5:12 pm

                      Three Nactoids all in a row!!
                      So ok, frackers, have a look at this report of Mark Papa’s(Chair of EOG) comment (sourced from The Automatic Earth. )

                      http://theautomaticearth.com/Energy/shale-is-a-pipedream-sold-to-greater-fools.html

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      7 August 2013 at 5:24 pm

                      /facepalm

                      They’re not bypassing the limits like you think they are, they’re just making it so that there will be even more death. The world will go on – with or without us or the species that we make extinct in the process of making the world uninhabitable for ourselves.

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      7 August 2013 at 7:01 pm

                      Galeandra, I have never voted for Nact in my life. Actually almost always Labour until they got too neoliberal and I shifted to NZF.

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_mining#Proposed_mining_projects

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      8 August 2013 at 9:44 am

                      Indeed. Why don’t they just have to common decency to roll over and die for Malthus.

                      Malthus was caught out by a single factor which he hadn’t anticipated: a 250 year period of cheap dense energy from fossil fuels.

                      We’re about 210 years through it now. 40 years to go (optimistically. After which fossil fuels will still be somewhat available but only for the elite). Fracking will see us grind through the next decade or so before all those fracked wells run dry (but the nearby fresh water permanently polluted).

            • yeshe 5.1.1.2.1.3
              7 August 2013 at 9:32 am

              Blinkered much BM ??

          • Populuxe1 5.1.1.2.2
            7 August 2013 at 1:46 pm

            Pissing off China by waving Tibetan flags instead?

        • weka 5.1.1.3
          7 August 2013 at 10:41 am

          So what would the left propose we do.?
          How to we reclaim this 100% pure, a standard we’ve never had.

          Ah, the voice of people that hate nature.

          Fuck the 100% Pure brand. What is important is that we are polluting and degrading the environment at rate much faster than previous generations. To say it’s a standard we never had is a neoliberal mindfuck. Of course we never had what the brand claimed (because they weren’t interested in reality, they were interested in making money from advertising), but we did have something. Do you even know what it was? Do you have any idea what we are losing? Thought not.

      • Tiger Mountain 5.1.2
        7 August 2013 at 9:22 am

        This is a classic chance to argue for the diversification of the NZ economy. We rely too heavily on agriculture (polluting Dairy) for exports and low wage service sector for jobs (fast food, hospitality, caring, lawn mowing rounds, dog walking etc).

        Sheep and forest have been run down, textile and clothing gone off shore, import substitution industries long out of favour. A 21st century equivalent is needed. Knowledge wave? No we are in a shower of cowshit. Not too many more cows can be packed into this country and nor should they be.

        Fonterra will likely survive as an international corporate in Latin America, Asia and Europe however the NZ end shakes out. Fonterra contracted out communications which may have something to do with the “time frame issues” on the botulism baby food.

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1
          7 August 2013 at 9:32 am

          The 21st century industries must be based on localisation, preservation of local resources, and preparing for massive changes caused by climate change and loss of access to affordable fossil fuel energy.

          • King Kong 5.1.2.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 9:35 am

            I bags the job of village blacksmith since you already have idiot sewn up.

            • fender 5.1.2.1.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 10:04 am

              Nah you get to taste-test the shonKey produce of this banana republic, fool.

            • Jimmie 5.1.2.1.1.2
              7 August 2013 at 10:10 pm

              You can’t be blacksmith. They will be banned as they need to burn coal to heat the iron.

              The green enforcement police would shut you down within hours.

              No I’m sorry each village will need to employ multiple numbers of idiots as that will be the only sustainable non polluting employment available.

              • weka …
                7 August 2013 at 11:11 pm

                Nice try, but too ignorant. You don’t need coal to run a blacksmith’s forge.

              • lprent …
                8 August 2013 at 1:09 am

                Coal?- they wouldn’t be blacksmiths if they did. Perhaps you should read up about something before making a complete dork of yourself.

                Your knowledge of greens is just as pathetic as your knowledge of how to work metal.

          • Chooky 5.1.2.1.2
            7 August 2013 at 5:30 pm

            CV +1

        • Draco T Bastard 5.1.2.2
          7 August 2013 at 5:28 pm

          Not too many more cows can be packed into this country and nor should they be.

          The importation of palm kernel to feed the cows would be indicative that we already have too many cows.

          • Populuxe1 5.1.2.2.1
            7 August 2013 at 7:03 pm

            More desirable than ruining tussock and river ecologies by irrigating the high country for pasture

            • vto 5.1.2.2.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 7:12 pm

              Sheesh pop that is weak. I hope you are being sarcastic.

              I once spoke to an RMA hearing on an irrigation proposal application and one of the commissioners put across a similar line as you. His went exactly like this…

              “If the farmers cannot get growth by adding more water then how do you propose they get growth?”

              I kid you not. That was the level of thinking on the hearing panel.

              The hearing? Only the Central Plains Water scheme – the biggest one in the land taking water from the Rakaia and the Waimakariri to irrigate a vast swathe of central Canterbury and add to the already cowshit-polluted water in Rolleston darfield hororata Sheffield Christchurch. Only the scheme which this corrupt government sacked democracy at Ecan for and stole the resource for their farmer voters.

              What a frikkin’ joke.

              I have no respect for any of those players. They can sit in their own shit.

              • Populuxe1 …
                7 August 2013 at 9:07 pm

                Did you actually read what I said? If we have too many cows, I’d rather they were fed on imported palm husks than our fragile ecological zones.

                • vto …
                  7 August 2013 at 9:13 pm

                  Did you actually think about what you wrote?

                  It is not an either or situation – surely you can see that. If NZ has too many cows then some of them need to leave. Don’t go shoving our environmental shit onto other people in some other corner of the world. That’s like refusing to cut our own rimus for patios and decks and then going straight to mitre10 and getting balu from baluland.

                  But I have seen this approach in you before pop. The attitude of ‘get in first’, do it to them before they do it to us. So your approach is not surprising.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    7 August 2013 at 9:34 pm

                    Yes, but the logistics of moving those cows without causing them considerable stress and undermining what represents a substantial investment on some people’s part seems to elude you.

                    • vto …
                      7 August 2013 at 9:42 pm

                      Are you serious pop? Can you not see how easy it is to de-cow? Just don’t let the calves grow into cows……..

                      As for the investment – that is currently governed by regulations which allow this intensive agriculture per hectare. All that needs to happen is to put in place other regulations which allow for a sustainable level of agriculture per hectare. These regulations are already being adjusted down in this manner – check out recent various regional council new regulations on fertiliser application per hectare as an example of this process in action.

                      This will take some time but it is already underway.

                      Sometimes I don’t know if you are serious or taking the piss. You seem to have a very good grasp of certain aspects of the world and its machinations but then sometimes just completely the opposite…

                    • Populuxe1 …
                      8 August 2013 at 1:46 am

                      I do sometimes wonder how attatched you are to your standard of living

            • marty mars 5.1.2.2.1.2
              7 August 2013 at 7:17 pm

              I don’t think it’s an either/or situation – we are growing cows where they shouldn’t be grown and destroying valuable areas to do it – my personal bugbear are the wetland, swamps and marshes being drained and put into pasture – that is just the most idiotic thing to do as these transition areas between the land and sea are very very valuable but not in money terms.

              • vto …
                7 August 2013 at 7:26 pm

                But those areas are very valuable in money terms as without them we would have no ecological system to support agriculture. This is what these fools don’t seem to understand. (Or rather, they ignore for short term money (read, their lifetime only))

                (now back to the ban)

                • marty mars …
                  7 August 2013 at 7:37 pm

                  I’m not sure I know what you mean when you say, ” as without them we would have no ecological system to support agriculture.”

                  remember your ban is self imposed so you can rescind it whenever you want.

                  • vto …
                    7 August 2013 at 7:44 pm

                    unban… without wetlands, or the interface between land and sea, I imagine the natural ecological system would collapse due to a complete imbalance. It would be like getting rid of the clouds and rain, or the worms and slugs, everything would seize up, slowly contract and wither and then blow away in the wind. Then agriculture here would be less able to function thereby earning less money and so wetlands absolutely do have a monetary value (among others) …. reban

                    • marty mars …
                      7 August 2013 at 7:54 pm

                      yes I agree – wetlands are one of the most underrated areas I believe and already here and overseas we have drained so many of them. I’d like to see more restoration of past wetlands and compulsory protection of existing wetlands.

      • infused 5.1.3
        7 August 2013 at 12:27 pm

        Oh I am… which I’ve posted about already… but this post is just a winge.

    • Lightly 5.2
      7 August 2013 at 9:04 am

      yeah, cause it’s clearly Eddie’s job to fix the lie at the heart of the 100% Pure brand

      • AmaKiwi 5.2.1
        7 August 2013 at 9:15 am

        An old story about George W. Bush.

        Question: “What does George W. think?”

        Answer: “Oh, George W. doesn’t think, he believes!”

        The National neo-liberals don’t think. They believe. That their beliefs have been discredited by experience and reason is irrelevant. Have you ever seen a faith healer who could be influenced by science, experience, or reason? No faith healer has ever cured a cancer, but they are still popular because they deliver hope instead of reality. “A brighter future” to one and all.

      • infused 5.2.2
        7 August 2013 at 12:30 pm

        Then why post about it? Does he want a hug? A pat on the back?

    • Pasupial 5.3
      7 August 2013 at 9:08 am

      @ Infused

      Insults have to be crafted – you can’t just shout; “I know you are, but what am I?” if you’re out of primary school (though that’s not a certainty in your case; given the quality of your argu-comments). If anything here is infused with the aroma of bullshit, it is your own words.

      You’re not worth banning.

  6. Private Baldrick 6
    7 August 2013 at 9:20 am

    I agree with Edwin, we should tell everyone that we’re no better than everyone.

  7. tc 7
    7 August 2013 at 9:22 am

    World already knows it’s 100% BS, Shonkey on hardtalk with his ‘I have another opinion’ and any decent journo (they have many of those in foreign lands ) can research our polluted waterways from dairy/industry. Then there’s fracking etc but I digress.

    This is about the mismanagement and culture within Fonterra which is a very middle/top heavy milk train that spends tens of millions on systems and process and failed on a basic food safety measure being enforced.

    No doubt the blame game’s well into the deciding set with a ‘systemic error’ or ‘process oversight’ being brought out soon to take the beating.

    People with knowledge doing a job often using elbow grease prevent such contaminations…..do they exist at Fonterra anymore or was it yet another restructure/process improvement/cost saving my monies on a few versions being full cream, lite and fat free.

  8. Tigger 8
    7 August 2013 at 9:30 am

    And yet Armstrong writes a glowing endorsement of how this mess has been handled by Key et al http://m.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=10909115

    Zero analysis. No mention of how they’ve contributed to this.

  9. UglyTruth 9
    7 August 2013 at 9:38 am

    We’re living a lie in New Zealand.

    corrupt (v.)
    mid-14c., “contaminate, impair the purity of,” from Latin corruptus, past participle of corrumpere (see corrupt (adj.)). Late 14c. as “pervert the meaning of,” also “putrefy.” Related: Corrupted; corrupting.
    http://etymonline.com/?term=corrupt

    pervert (v.)
    c.1300 (transitive), “to turn someone aside from a right religious belief to a false or erroneous one,” from Old French pervertir “pervert, undo, destroy” (12c.) and directly from Latin pervertere “overthrow, overturn,” figuratively “to corrupt, subvert, abuse,” literally “turn the wrong way, turn about,” from per- “away” (see per) + vertere “to turn” (see versus).
    http://etymonline.com/?term=pervert

    “The whole of the common law is judge made.”
    http://www.pco.parliament.govt.nz/lac-chapter-3

    Alfred … established a code of laws that later became the basis of English Common Law.
    http://www.heritage-history.com/www/heritage.php?Dir=characters&FileName=alfred.php

    The Doom Book, Code of Alfred or Legal Code of Aelfred the Great was the code of laws (“dooms”, laws or judgments) compiled by Alfred the Great (c. 893 AD) from three prior Saxon codes, to which he prefixed the Ten Commandments of Moses and incorporated rules of life from the Mosaic Code and the Christian code of ethics.
    http://stefangillies.wordpress.com/alfred-the-great-legal-code/

  10. Tel 10
    7 August 2013 at 10:10 am

    According to Xinhua, “one could argue the country (NZ) is hostage to a blinkered devotion to laissez-faire market ideology” and I agree it’s undeniable, but why don’t they look at their own filthy backyard first, before casting aspersions toward us. If China had a brand it would be called 100% pure shit.

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      7 August 2013 at 10:19 am

      The Chinese are asking us to live up to our own standards and our own promises. That’s not a bad thing, is it?

      • Tel 10.1.1
        7 August 2013 at 11:14 am

        Depends whether you think a state run news agency taking an interest in our domestic affairs is a good or bad thing. Personally I’ve always believed the 100% Pure advert should have been killed off at birth. This dumb slogan is like living a lie and worse misrepresents our country to the outside world.

        I made a typo in the post above. It was supposed to read “If China had a brand would it be called 100% pure shit?”

        • bad12 10.1.1.1
          7 August 2013 at 2:12 pm

          The fact that you think that it is simply China and it’s State news agency taking an unwarranted interest in our ‘domestic affairs’ simply shows that you bring little intelligence to the debate,

          Sending baby formula into the Chinese domestic market is hardly a simple ‘domestic affair’ concerning only this country, and nor is doing that while having at least some inkling that there was a potential problem with the formula ingredients which might have lead to the death of any number of infants in China…

          • Populuxe1 10.1.1.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 2:22 pm

            If you compare our systems and responses in this case to the Melamide scandal, you might realise what bullshit that is – quite aside from the fact that this was accidental and that was deliberate poisoning of baby food. Also, given that the whey was not sealed in an anerobic environment like a tin can, it is highly unlikely botulism would have developed.
            Now perhaps the CHinese would like to stop selling us cheap toys covered in lead paint and such.

            • Puddleglum 10.1.1.1.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 3:14 pm

              According to Professor Ian Shaw,

              “There are two ways that BT in food can affect people.

              The first involves the consumer eating food contaminated with C botulinum, and then the bacteria grow and secrete BT in the consumer’s gut.

              The second requires the contaminated food to provide the ideal growth conditions for the bacteria, which results in BT being secreted into the food.

              The ideal growth conditions for C botulinum include lack of oxygen, low acid and plenty of nutrients. Milk whey in oxygen- free conditions would be just perfect.”

              Now, I realise that he doesn’t explicitly say that the conditions of the whey in this case were ‘oxygen-free’ but the general tenor of his article suggests that he thinks they were a good environment for C. botulinum.

              Interesting details in the link about the toxicity and mode of operation.

    • vto 10.2
      7 August 2013 at 10:36 am

      China isn’t the one claiming to be 100% Pure.

    • weka 10.3
      7 August 2013 at 10:46 am

      “If China had a brand it would be called 100% pure shit.”

      It’s true that China has some very slack standards by the way NZ measures it. But China also grows alot of organic food, and in some areas is doing world-leading land restoration.

      http://www.worldbank.org/en/news/feature/2007/03/15/restoring-chinas-loess-plateau

      Google ‘loess plateau’ +john liu

  11. Rosetinted 11
    7 August 2013 at 10:19 am

    Of course, John Key says that 100% Pure is just a brand and everyone knows that we’re not an untouched virgin land.
    That is so true wot Jokeyhen says. So we will have to change our slogan, someone suggested 99% would be more appropriate. Anyone with a different number?

    It’s a bit like that comment about being a virgin or being pregnant, you are or you aren’t. Sometimes there is doubt for a while. (In certain countries that are fanatical about sexuality purity there is an operation that can be performed to restore the virginal untouched physical condition.) Either way the real condition needs managing and it makes for vulnerability, and care is required to stay healthy and well.

    Our vulnerable little country needs care and concern, TLC, the kiwis nurtured, the land, the bees cared for, the biosecurity pepped up. And nearly all organics – I think the Falklands Islands have done this. Pesticides should be cided themselves. People already know how to to grow with less chemicals, their have been controls on sprays and point of need spraying with pest counts done for years already in some sectors, so more treatment of food growing as an art not a gross factory industry.

    As for kiwis, people in the know say they may vanish within 50 years. If we don’t, bigfeet will be what’s left still roaming the country, there will still be moa of them.

  12. Descendant Of Sssmith 12
    7 August 2013 at 10:33 am

    Totally agree that control over effluent, water use, etc are things that need to be addressed in open ways.

    We still have some advantages in terms of green though in that we don’t add shit like this

    http://www.businessspectator.com.au/article/2008/8/28/food-and-beverages/milking-gm-technology

    If we settled for a little less profit and for a bit more effort to quality control and greener systems and processes we could maintain a strong market share for a long time.

    Other countries are being forced to take different roads due to population pressure / profit imperatives.

    We don’t need to.

    • yeshe 12.1
      7 August 2013 at 10:55 am

      My fear is TPPA will change our GM free status .. if Key does what he doing now in the relative open, hard to imagine what it is he might be doing completely out of sight. We need to fight this all the way imho.

  13. BLiP 13
    7 August 2013 at 10:33 am

    ‘

    Yep, all true Eddie, and I would only add that our “flagship” corporation, Fonterra, is responsible for a huge part of ruining our environment. The head long rush into dairy farming was driven by greed and facilitated by the short-term thinking which, in turn, pollutes the New Zealand political process.

    So far as this latest fuck up is concerned, Fonterra has much more to explain than just how this incident occurred. Judging by the last time milk powder exports were tainted, Fonterra has not learned a thing. To make matters worse, Fonterra itself pissed all over the “100% Pure” brand by using the DCD-poisoning incident as an excuse for the futher pollution of New Zealand’s water resources. And this after having been caught out lying about the results of its PR-only Clean Streams Accord.

    The government also has some ‘splaining to do. Its own head-long rush into deregulation and the concomitant, deliberate impoverishment of monitoring agencies has now, it seems, reached the inevitable nadir. With its idological faith in the “invisible hand” of “the market”, National Ltd™ has left the protection of New Zealand’s primary industry sector exposed to people who, it seems, can’t even monitor their own farms. John Key doesn’t appear to have a clue about what’s still to come with his recent opening of New Zealand up to the charms of the international mining community. One spill from one of the holes to be dug directly into the currently rumbling Pacific tectonic plates hasn’t even crossed the government’s mind – or, if it has, John Key doesn’t give a fuck. Such is National Ltd™’s rush to open our nation up to the mining companies, it has breached international law to urgently strip away civil liberties from those who might oppose such idiocy. One can only anticipate further reductions in worker protections next.

    The orchestrated litany of the John Key-led National Ltd™ government actions against our environment is now almost too long to be taken in. And, you’re right, not much of all this has happened outside the purview of the average New Zealander. Most of it has happened right under their very noses. Marching up and down Queen St is great but lets hope this mood filters through to next year’s voting booths.

    • Macro 13.1
      7 August 2013 at 10:48 am

      +100
      Great summing up of the sorry mess this greedy mob have foisted upon NZ.
      We cannot afford another 3 years of their incompetence and selfishness.
      They must go.

    • yeshe 13.2
      7 August 2013 at 10:57 am

      +100% thank you… they have to be voted out.

    • Rosetinted 13.3
      7 August 2013 at 10:58 am

      Blip
      Your points remind me of the awful problem that Japan has with its damaged nuclear reactors and the nuclear managers are supposed to be containing nuclear waste from polluting the Pacific Ocean. The big boys there haven’t cared enough about probable damage occurring from placing this hazardous business on sites that are also hazardous.

      And the Japanese have been very smart and intelligent in their development, but we aren’t, I think. Did they outsmart themselves? We should be aware of our deficiencies in the smarts section and taiho, step back, think again, be…cautious? And seek what’s best to do not what’s momentarily expedient and profitable.

    • Draco T Bastard 13.4
      7 August 2013 at 5:50 pm

      One spill from one of the holes to be dug directly into the currently rumbling Pacific tectonic plates hasn’t even crossed the government’s mind – or, if it has, John Key doesn’t give a fuck.

      Oh, it’s not just John Key that doesn’t give a fuck – it’s National in its entirety and a fairly large chunk of the populace. For these people, having money is far more important than having an environment that will support our children and grandchildren.

  14. johnm 14
    7 August 2013 at 10:48 am

    “And it’s the lose of that brand” Should read ” And it’s the loss of that brand”

    Yes, everyone here knows we are not clean and green and that includes the huge amounts of 1080 poison we drop to keep possums under control.

    The image still appeals on the basis of our iconic rainforests and mountain rivers, our Alps and the still beautiful beaches and warm seas to the North.Also our low population and the sense of plenty of space here. That’s why we can’t risk a deep water horizon here, the protesters are right.

    • MrSmith 14.1
      7 August 2013 at 1:19 pm

      Yes but the largest users of 1080 in New Zealand are the Animal Health Boards (DOC continually gets the blame though) most 1080 is dropped for no other reason than to control TB and protect our farming industry.

      The is a lot of misinformation around 1080 and really there are plenty of other issues that are far more important around industries dealing with the waste and pollution created from the products they sell.

      • vto 14.1.1
        7 August 2013 at 2:07 pm

        “most 1080 is dropped for no other reason than to control TB and protect our farming industry.”

        That’s right mrsmith and I don’t know if you have been following it but many various Westland valleys with few farms but which have vast areas of possum-ridden native bush backing onto them have recently found that TB has been spreading irrespective of the presence of possums.

        This was reported on about three weeks ago across the west coast. So 1080 may not even work that the TB purpose.

      • Rosetinted 14.1.2
        7 August 2013 at 2:38 pm

        Mr Smith
        That TB business surprises me. I know we have been fighting it for years and thought we would have developed some science to deal with it better by now.

        And I was shocked to hear that one farmer had to kill a whole herd because of the outbreak in a few in one area. I think I heard just recently that it can remain latent without showing up on tests and pop up some years later. Just when the farmer might think things are okay. Foot and mouth and this – I don’t think we are putting our science spearhead and funding enough on these problems.

        • MrSmith 14.1.2.1
          7 August 2013 at 5:19 pm

          Bovine Tb (tuberculosis). – Possums are very susceptible to bovine Tb and the disease progresses rapidly in possums. Infected possums excrete large quantities of the bacteria and if they are feeding on pasture where cattle or deer also feed there is a great risk of spreading the disease. Creating a major threat to New Zealand milk and beef exports.
          http://biosecurity.org.nz/about-us/animal-pests/

  15. Rosetinted 15
    7 August 2013 at 11:02 am

    johnm
    1080 poison is doing more good than bad in NZ the way it is utilised. It suits some people to constantly badmouth it and quote statistics that suit them. Then there are the other statistics about how 1080 is of value in assisting the growth of previously threatened species.

    • vto 15.1
      7 August 2013 at 12:01 pm

      Don’t know if 1080 is clear cut like that rosetinted. Some people loathe it. Governments can’t be trusted to make the right decisions about it (or know everything about a product. eg 245T, DDT, formaldehyde, asbestos, on it goes…)

      Also, I have seen firsthand where birdlife has been near obliterated after a 1080 drop in a catchment.

      You may also like to ask yourself why DOC doesn’t use it around Okarito…. reason being it kills too many birds (kiwis there).

      Then of course there are all the health concerns for dropping such a heinous poison into our waterways (which most West Coasters get their water from).

      1080 would seem to have a place, but a minor and very infrequent one. Drops followed by comprehensive trapping programmes are the way to go.

      Bloody possums – who let them in here?

      • Rosetinted 15.1.1
        7 August 2013 at 12:55 pm

        Yes vto It can’t be applied with the precision of keyhole surgery.

        1080 would seem to have a place, but a minor and very infrequent one. Drops followed by comprehensive trapping programmes are the way to go.
        Bloody possums – who let them in here?

        Too right. Absolutely! And proper spending by government on controls and people-oriented eradication. Needs investment in our green land.

        As marty mars says – Not lala land! – we want greenland.

        • Poission 15.1.1.1
          7 August 2013 at 1:07 pm

          Eradication of Possum,rats and mice would have a substantive result on the response of vegetation in NZ.The interesting side effect say with Possums is that it would effectively halve the effects of GHG transport emissions by increasing the sink efficiency.

      • MrSmith 15.1.2
        7 August 2013 at 1:24 pm

        “Also, I have seen firsthand where birdlife has been near obliterated after a 1080 drop in a catchment.”

        So you had been into the catchment before the drop? and what science was done before and after regarding bird numbers.

        • vto 15.1.2.1
          7 August 2013 at 1:30 pm

          Yes. And it was my own assessment – thought that would have been apparent. Though I do have a couple of degrees, one in such science, does that count?

          But genuinely – was on the alert from before the drops (in varied locations) until well after. The difference was very noticeable and substantial.

          • Draco T Bastard 15.1.2.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 5:57 pm

            But genuinely – was on the alert from before the drops (in varied locations) until well after. The difference was very noticeable and substantial.

            Did the bird life come back afterwards? I.e, if you went back there now would there be more or less than what was there before the drop?

            EDIT:
            I tend to refer to Rangitoto in discussions like this because I recall what it was like before the 1080 drop.

            • vto 15.1.2.1.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 6:07 pm

              Not yet draco but I’m watching closely. The areas I keep an eye on are still much quieter than before the last round of drops a couple years ago. By all reports the bird life does come back, and has done so in previous drops, so fingers crossed.

              But this highlights the further problem – these drops are done – birds and possums are obliterated or close to. Then, they all come back again, both birds and possums, because there is no follow-up procedure to clean out the remaining possums missed by the drop. So it is all a waste of time because a decade later and the whole thing has to happen again, never really getting anywhere.

              Possums really are shit. The areas devastated by their munching and reproducing brings tears to the eyes. Rata and fuschia especially nailed. Many people don’t notice it but when it is pointed out it stands out like dogs balls. And they are spreading. There are few catchments left untouched by them.

              There are people who make a living from trapping. Quite a few. This should be enhanced and a broad attack wave launched on the possums.

              • Macro …
                7 August 2013 at 10:04 pm

                totally agree vto.
                I wonder if we are building up a rod for our backs like poor use of antibiotics – getting a result for a while then the bug coming back with a vengeance.

        • grumpy 15.1.2.2
          7 August 2013 at 1:43 pm

          Same here, vto is right on this one…

          • vto 15.1.2.2.1
            7 August 2013 at 1:51 pm

            why thanks grumpy but somehow that implies it is a rare moment…..

            and if that’s the case then maybe you’re right and I should drift back to the other side ……

            • grumpy 15.1.2.2.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 1:54 pm

              There is a small block way up the South Branch of the Mokihinui River where they use as a trial control block. It is 1080’d the shit out of – absolutely dead!

              There is a reason why it is so remote – so no trampers and greenies get to see it!

          • MrSmith 15.1.2.2.2
            7 August 2013 at 5:01 pm

            Of-course he is Grumpy! With all due respect vto should know better than to rely on his own observations, without doing any science.

      • Populuxe1 15.1.3
        7 August 2013 at 1:52 pm

        When was the last time you saw a bird eat a carrot? That tends to be the usual deployment method

        • grumpy 15.1.3.1
          7 August 2013 at 1:55 pm

          They drink the water from puddles in the bush, sometimes with a 1080 bait sitting in it.

          • Populuxe1 15.1.3.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 2:00 pm

            Highly unlikely. 1080 is highly water soluable and dilutes incredibly quickly
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_fluoroacetate

            • grumpy 15.1.3.1.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 2:19 pm

              In a not too long ago trial at Franz Josef, DoC radio tagged 18 kea of which 6 were poisoned by the 1080 drop. 33%, significant?

              http://www.keaconservation.co.nz/keaendangeredspecies/keawildpopulation/1080andkea.html

              • Populuxe1 …
                7 August 2013 at 2:25 pm

                Statistically? No. Not compared to the net good

                • grumpy …
                  7 August 2013 at 2:30 pm

                  Oh great! So we’ll just kill off 33% of the native bird life because Pop says it’s not statistically significant and “for the net good”.

                  OK, we agree the possums need to go but where is the urgent research into biological means such as that have reduced rabbits to a manageable level?

                  • Descendant Of Sssmith …
                    7 August 2013 at 2:42 pm

                    I’ve always understood that the problem with drops is that 1080 ends up in the crooks of the trees where water gathers that birds drink.

                    The advantage of drops is that it’s cheaper and can cover a wider area more quickly than walking in and setting bait traps etc.

                    You will always get some variable loss of birdlife as far as I know with drops.

                    It’s a difficult trade off.

                    Last I heard from DOC they could supply a mate of mine with traps but had no funding for manpower for their family’s large area of beech forest.

                    I’d happily pay more tax to have the state provide more money to DOC to run more labour intensive program’s to get rid of possums.

                    Trapping and shooting is fine for the easy to get to spots but there’s loads of country that ain’t that accessible.

                    Money to put in and maintain more tracks to improve access would also be useful to go the more labour intensive ways.

                    • grumpy …
                      7 August 2013 at 2:51 pm

                      “I’d happily pay more tax to have the state provide more money to DOC to run more labour intensive program’s to get rid of possums.”

                      Me too.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    7 August 2013 at 3:22 pm

                    We could just leave the birds to be eaten by possums 🙂

                • Rosetinted …
                  7 August 2013 at 2:44 pm

                  Pop
                  That’s the problem isn’t it. It’s supposed to be short term loss for long term gain.
                  The 1080 certainly has to be in careful doses.

                  Do observers know all about why these areas they quote as suffering a big hit were chosen? Observing before and after without understanding the management and assessment of predators and risks in the area means that it is hard to make a reasoned analysis, it becomes an opinionated observation.

                  • Populuxe1 …
                    7 August 2013 at 5:06 pm

                    Indeed. I would have thought that logically they would test in areas where there are few critically endangered species in order to monitor the risks. Also I doubt there would be many birds in areas heavily infested with possums or deer

          • richard 15.1.3.2.1
            7 August 2013 at 2:15 pm

            And possums love bird eggs, birds, bats and giant land snails.
            http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/possums/page-4
            Here you can watch a possum eating a juvenile kea –


            • grumpy 15.1.3.2.1.1
              7 August 2013 at 2:27 pm

              Bullshit, there are millions of possums in Australia and they don’t eat keas. So why do only the NZ species eat them?

              • richard …
                7 August 2013 at 2:30 pm

                My guess is because they don’t have kea in Australia. Kea being a native NZ species, and all.

                • Rosetinted …
                  7 August 2013 at 2:50 pm

                  richard
                  What do possums eat in Australia? Do you know? They are denuding us, how does Australia have any trees left with them around and being so close to Aussie’s hearts. Are they protected there?

                  • grumpy …
                    7 August 2013 at 2:52 pm

                    Bloody oath they are protected, you can’t even swear at them!

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      7 August 2013 at 6:16 pm

                      Which keeps me coming back to the bloody question: If the Australians love their possums so bloody much, why don’t they come and pick them up?

                      Hey, I know, if any Australian wants NZ will put any possum they pick up in to quarantine free. They just have to pick them up, supply a cage and the airfare to Australia. Seems reasonable to me. They get their possums back and we get rid of them.

                  • richard …
                    7 August 2013 at 3:18 pm

                    I’d reckon that because the Australian plants and possums evolved together, the plants would have some good possum defence – unlike New Zealand plants, which only had to build up defence against Moa – http://www.landcareresearch.co.nz/science/plants-animals-fungi/ecosystems/prehistoric-settlement/megaherbivores/background

                    • grumpy …
                      7 August 2013 at 3:28 pm

                      The way things were going in the 70’s and 80’s were a good step forward. Clear felling and burning succulent native forest (which is primo tucker for possums) and replacing with Pinus Radiata (which ain’t).
                      Maybe they should have just carried on and done the whole country, that would have sorted out possum numbers!

                    • Rosetinted …
                      7 August 2013 at 9:16 pm

                      Thanx richard

                  • KJT …
                    7 August 2013 at 7:44 pm

                    Australian vegetation has adapted over centuries of being browsed by large marsupials. Ours hasn’t!

                    While we are on the subject, when we lived out of town the bush was almost silent and the native trees, especially pohutukawa, were dying. Two years after a 1080 drop, and I have to admit, our cats, which had a taste for baby possums, rats and rabbits, there was bird life everywhere. Including wood pigeons, morepork and so many Pukeko, they were a pain..

              • lprent …
                7 August 2013 at 2:36 pm

                No keas in Aussie perhaps?

              • grumpy …
                7 August 2013 at 2:49 pm

                Bugger!!! Who would have thought? Maybe those Aussie possums have eaten them all??

                • lprent …
                  7 August 2013 at 6:16 pm

                  Nope. They evolved long after NZ departed Gondwanaland and separated from each other. Of course in aussie the dinosaurs of the air had at least 85-80 million years to get adapted to the possums and their progenitors (that being the approximate date that NZ departed).

                  While in NZ they did not as few land animals managed to survive the cretaceous extinctions 65mya or the subsequent widespread dunkings that these islands got as the NZ continent got massaged by the pacific and aussie plates..

      • weka 15.1.4
        7 August 2013 at 3:34 pm

        “Also, I have seen firsthand where birdlife has been near obliterated after a 1080 drop in a catchment.”

        The theory is that even though there is bird loss, the subsequent breeding birds and offspring do much better in the absence of predators and the absence of foliage eaters, and so the bird populations increase overall. I’ve certainly been in bush with good 1080 controll and see much better birdlife than other places.

        Not quite sure how that works given that 1080 primarily kills possums. Maybe it works best in areas that are trapping stoats and rats too.

        I’m against 1080 btw. I think many (not all) places it is being used, could be using trapping schemes that provide employment and a fur trade instead.

      • MrSmith 15.1.5
        7 August 2013 at 7:11 pm

        “Then of course there are all the health concerns for dropping such a heinous poison into our waterways (which most West Coasters get their water from).”

        Vto: Compared to all the waste leeching into their creeks from old and new gold/coal mines, plus the dairy farms then really them worrying about 1080 is the height of hypocrisy, but really this debate is nothing but a distraction for the coasters to blame all there problems on those bloody greenies, they, the coasters still live in the past, fuck just tune into one of their radio stations some time.

        • vto 15.1.5.1
          7 August 2013 at 7:21 pm

          Sheesh, that sounds like a whole lot of pent-up prejudice there.

          “Compared to all the waste leeching into their creeks from old and new gold/coal mines” … sure but you may be surprised at the rising antagonism towards those bastards who really do leave the land in a mess and usually unuseable for any following generations.

          “plus the dairy farms” … sure, but they are making progress, albeit slower than elsewhere,

          “them worrying about 1080 is the height of hypocrisy” … not really. Speak to them and you will get a wholly different side to the equation,

          “but really this debate is nothing but a distraction for the coasters to blame all there problems on those bloody greenies,”… no they blame a great deal of their issues on interference from outside the province, which has been a perennial problem for them. Examples – Strongman, Pike River, Gold boom, timber industry, DOC and its non payment of any rates, the list is very long. As for the greenies, sure they don’t get far in certain circles, but what I see there is a splitting of the community. Greenies on the up, anti-greenies on the slide. Check back in another generation.

          ” they, the coasters still live in the past,”… better than living in John Key’s stinked-up world.

          “fuck just tune into one of their radio stations some time.” …. calm now. Each to their own.

          • Colonial Viper 15.1.5.1.1
            7 August 2013 at 9:50 pm

            Exactly. Fact is, I’d trust most coasters further than I’d trust the fucking set off Molesworth St.

  16. BLiP 16
    7 August 2013 at 11:07 am

    Ooops . . . to many tabs open.

  17. marty mars 17
    7 August 2013 at 12:25 pm

    It is tough when mythology meets reality. The 100% line was marketing, designed to sell our product whether meat or the mountains. We who live here knew it was bullshit but we wanted to believe it was true and all the other places around the world were so much worse than us – that is part of the mythology as well and it is still there evidenced by, “who are they to tell us that” lines. You can’t swim in the rivers without getting sick – that is the truth. We have quite a few mythologies in this place and they need to be torn down bit by bit so that the truth can see the light of day and once that happens we can get on with trying to fix stuff – if we continue to live in la la land nothing will improve.

  18. Steve Wrathall 18
    7 August 2013 at 12:47 pm

    “most of the rivers are unsafe to swim due to the farm run-off,”
    Source please

  19. Populuxe1 19
    7 August 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Excessive butthurt over silly marketing slogan. I wonder why China isn’t criticising us on our human rights record?…

    • fender 19.1
      7 August 2013 at 1:18 pm

      Another term or two from National and China will have plenty of critical human rights ammo to shoot at NZ, especially if one J Collins becomes leader.

    • Rosetinted 19.2
      7 August 2013 at 2:22 pm

      Populuxe1 and grumpy – Why don’t you stick to watching Coronation Street? Or there is a really gripping Computer game called Walking Dead with zombies and a great little girl called Clementine, that would keep you busy.

      Fonterra and China – it’s all about business and it’s about food quality and standards. Don’t get all mixed up – that’s all that you have to understand. We want them to buy our milk, and we want to get a good price and they want to buy it because it is so good and reliably high quality and they will pay extra than for other brands to get it.

      So Fonterra has let down the customers there and the suppliers, by continuing to trade with some doubts about quality of some of our product and not letting on about this. They are annoyed, even angry, that we didn’t front up and inform them. They wonder if they can trust us, now and in the future to be straight dealers. They wonder if anything else we are trying to sell them has ‘fish-hooks’, and they wonder if we are capable of the same dirty dealing that their own people had tried. They thought we were better than that, and they wonder if they were wrong. A lot of doubt and wondering is going on about business standards and behaviour from Fonterra, and this will flow on to other NZ companies trying to do business in China.

      Human rights in the sense of not treating people right and letting them mouth off as we are, is another subject entirely.

      • grumpy 19.2.1
        7 August 2013 at 2:48 pm

        You are correct. We charge a premium by trading on our pristine image. That incurs a cost – the cost of preserving at least the illusion.
        Fonterra stuffed up its primary marketing argument and for that they deserve everything coming to them.
        This starts and finishes with Fonterra, the Govt are as much a victim as China.

  20. grumpy 20
    7 August 2013 at 1:36 pm

    Anyone died yet? Anyone even slightly sick?

    Seems like bugger all of a food scandal by Chinese standards…….

  21. phillip ure 21
    7 August 2013 at 2:11 pm

    of course there is one sure-fire way to restore our ‘green’ brand..

    ..and that is to follow the path of uraguay..and legalise/regulate/sell/tax pot..

    ..eh..?

    ..that’ll bring back the tourists in droves..

    ..and solve the poverty problems in both northland and the east cape..

    ..in one fell swoop..

    ..eh..?

    ..bring on the green-rush..!..i say..

    ..phillip ure..

    • bad12 21.1
      7 August 2013 at 2:30 pm

      Or we could always market the rivers and streams that have recently been turned pink and purple by industrial waste as being ‘natural wonders’…

      • Rosetinted 21.1.1
        7 August 2013 at 9:34 pm

        But they’re so pretty when they get all that white and yellow froth at the edge.

  22. blue leopard 22
    7 August 2013 at 2:24 pm

    I believe this government hasn’t wanted to pursue the 100% Pure brand for NZ, so this event will really play into their agenda.

    They want mining, they want what big money interests want and the 100% Pure brand obstructs the easy passage for such interests.

    Once the initial drama of this event dies down; just you wait for the next round of squawking for mining that our government MPs will immediately start pursuing.

    • blue leopard 23.1
      7 August 2013 at 6:40 pm

      @ Populuxe1

      I see what you mean!

      Is it satire? Some of the comments seem like it must be?

      It is hard to imagine these words coming out of our PM’s mouth:

      “Prime Minister John Key today acknowledged the commentary in Chinese media, saying that he understood that China was “widely respected” as a role model for progressive, forward-thinking nations with an eye on improving quality of life for everyone.”

      He must have had real trouble managing the last sentence without dry-retching methinks. Sounds like anathema for him.

  24. Crystal Voyager 24
    7 August 2013 at 5:58 pm

    http://www.nme.com/nme-video/youtube/id/hGV_cMtnsHI

    Dave Nash Band, Fonterra You Dirty Bastards video
    Original song by New Zealand songwriter Dave Nash and his band, about milk giant Fonterra and greed.

  25. Rhinocrates 25
    7 August 2013 at 7:20 pm

    What none of you realise, and which would render all of this debate meaningless, and in the current climate, treasonable, is that there are other opinions .

    The Keyster said himself on the BBC, no less: he can simply find another opinion.

    So what the Hell is the problem?

    • Colonial Viper 25.1
      7 August 2013 at 9:37 pm

      No problem, nothing to see here, when is the next season of XFactor starting?

  26. Populuxe1 26
    7 August 2013 at 9:37 pm

    What everyone seems to be ignoring is that this piece of propoganda puffery has been produced for internal Chinese consumption to try and revive the local dairy industry that went tits up after the melamide crisis.

    • Rosetinted 26.1
      7 August 2013 at 9:45 pm

      Pop
      Yes, shoehorns in nicely doesn’t it. Fonterra slipped on a banana and so came fifth instead of forth. Had to happen. Everything had seemed to be going well for a surprising length of time.

    • Colonial Viper 26.2
      7 August 2013 at 9:52 pm

      What everyone seems to be ignoring is that this piece of propoganda puffery has been produced for internal Chinese consumption

      Yes what with all the Mainland Chinese who have access to the interwebs and read in English.

      • Populuxe1 26.2.1
        8 August 2013 at 1:53 am

        CV, this is the English Language version. Why would a Chinese news service publish entirely in English? This is the English verison of a Mandarin text which was no doubt published in China as it appears to be written from that perspective. And actually all that stuff about the Great Fire Wall is overrated – there is only a select number of sites Mainland Chinese can’t access and even them they find a way around it.

  27. xtasy 27
    8 August 2013 at 1:32 am

    Forgive me, please, forgive me, I was ranting over a month ago, I was angry, furious, I was out of control, but this topic again hits my nerves, it stirs me up!!

    I have been in NZ since the early 1980s and went through the Shipley and Ruthanasia agenda, even being on a benefit then, for a while, feeling forced to put in a vege garden, as my and others’ benefits were cut, yes CUT!

    I survived with immense pain and hurt, it was unbelievable what went on then, but there were no damned jobs, and the Nat government then did not care a shit about you and me, certainly not the environment.

    Now we get this talk again about NZ needing to be competitive internationally and to make compromises. I have this damned ring in my ears, loud and clear, about the “competitive advantage” this country would have to realise, and it was some US based “expert” preaching through the NZ media then that we all need to accept agriculture, dairy, horticulture, fisheries, forestry and such are our future. Fair enough governments and many in the populace thought, and in the end they went along with it. I believe the link here shows an insight, unless I am wrong.

    http://www.management.co.nz/executiveupdate.asp?eID=298

    What has happened since? Nothing much new, a bit more exports, imports, more selling out of assets and shares, of business, of interests, a FTA with China and this and that. So what have we now? Heavy industrialised agri production, polluting rivers, heavy traffic of personal car traffic in cities, reaching worst global standards, exploitation of fisheries, forestry and so forth, little gain, much pain. So got it, if you care?

    NZ has been and is being sold out, bit by bit, day and night, and house by house, I see it here in Auckland. Call me a racist to raise the issue about migrant property purchases? I am not, I just comment on what I see day in and out. I have also over decades seen NZ business and farms being sold out.

    I am not even NZ born, but I think, if you as Kiwis allow this any longer, you are selling your own self out under your feet. It is stupid and idiotic. And this 100 per cent pure business is stuffed already anyway, as the whole Fonterra and other dairy intensification has stuffed it all up. We really have created a huge national corporate, to bend rules and do what they see fit, even dress themselves up to claim they feed the hungry school kids now, it is idiotic, idiotic, how Kiwis fall for all this shit, to think they have to defend the farmer lobby controlled corporate monopoly and believe they will benefit from it.

    Get your brain put into the laundromat perhaps, a good rinse is overdue!

    • Murray Olsen 27.1
      8 August 2013 at 6:32 pm

      Welcome back. I like this better than your last post. Most of us here are trying to improve things, in the ways we know how.

  28. xtasy 28
    9 August 2013 at 9:19 am

    This is Brian Easton’s take on ‘Upgrading New Zealand’s Competitive Advantage’, also referred to as “The Porter Project”, that was published and much hailed in business, right wing political and even media circles then:

    http://www.eastonbh.ac.nz/1991/06/the_porter_project/

    Not surprisingly Easton showed a dim view of this agenda for New Zealand, but the then government used it to push ahead with their agenda to slash welfare, to sell and privatise state owned assets, to “liberalise” so many laws, regulations and conditions, some of which led to the leaky building scandal, the Pike River Mine disaster, an increasing wealth and income gap, and many more disastrous events or developments.

    New Zealanders are still paying for consequences of these experiments, while the NatACT government are pushing for more experiments, leading to yet further damage and selling out of this country.

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