Ardern: Setting the record straight

38 comments on “Ardern: Setting the record straight ”

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1. cleangreen 1

   16 September 2017 at 10:16 am

   Great to see a quality mind of Michael Cullen involved here.

   Michael Cullen has been the only proven Finance Minister we have had this century.

   Lets do this.

   @ilovejacinda.
   • Poission 1.1

     16 September 2017 at 11:12 am

     Cullen was a financial disaster, allowing NZ current /ac to blow out prior to the GFC.

     https://www.rbnz.govt.nz/-/media/ReserveBank/Images/Key%20graphs/key-graph-current-account-balance.jpg?la=en&hash=A857EF5A955BD51E39A3949E7B53195D6146185E
     • cleangreen 1.1.1

       16 September 2017 at 11:41 am

       Poission;

       National = Disaster

       Labour crown debt 2008 = $8 billion
       National crown debt 2017 = $96 billion.

       Labour crown assets were in intact in 2008 and also bought back NZ Rail system for $700 million.

       National after nine years since have sold most publically owned assets and still we owe $96 billion crown debt to overseas financial interests and are still piined down to an interest payment annually of $5 Billion a year (interest only) as no debt is being paid off.

       National – financial disaster.
   • tracey 1.2

     16 September 2017 at 11:18 am

     The reason National got no traction against Cullen was cos he was doing what they would do. He gobbled up that knighthood pronto too
     • red-blooded 1.2.1

       16 September 2017 at 11:40 am

       Cullen was a Keynsian. He put up taxes for the wealthy, invested in long term projects like the super fund and helped NZ to pay down debt while building up employment. He had socialist instincts but also knew how to operate in the international capitalist system (which, by the way, NZ will continue to participate in in coming years). Do you really see no difference between his way of doing things and Bill English’s? If not, time for Specsavers!
       • weka 1.2.1.1

         16 September 2017 at 11:52 am

         He was also part of a government that reinforced poverty for beneficiaries and entrenched bene bashing the culture. It’s not that Labour never do any good, they do, it’s that they won’t take the extra step and make NZ a social democracy. Ardern looks set to work in a similar vein.
       • tracey 1.2.1.2

         16 September 2017 at 12:14 pm

         Time to take off your eyepatch. Cullen was kinder than English but perpetuated the mess we have today. Even Shearer berated a guy for painting his roof cos he had a back condition. I know people who get intermittent respite from chronic pain and use the window to do these things, which also prolly exacerbates the back problem.
2. weka 2

   16 September 2017 at 10:30 am

   This is a good, clear explanation but it’s a pity that Ardern has now said that she won’t raise income tax.

   That’s probably shutting the door on a UBI/fixing welfare. I can’t see the problem with raising tax on very high income earners, and she’s basically just committed Labour to not doing that for the next 6 years or as long as she is leader.
   • Stuart Munro 2.1

     16 September 2017 at 10:48 am

     I notice she left a window open to go after speculators though. If she hits them hard enough they’ll begin to exit the market – a very good thing.
     • weka 2.1.1

       16 September 2017 at 11:26 am

       true. It’s not what Labour will do that’s the problem, it’s what they won’t do 😉
   • Incognito 2.2

     16 September 2017 at 11:09 am

     It begs the question how strong Labour’s commitment was to raising income tax in the first place. As you point out, raising income taxes, or any taxes for the matter, should be part of a larger strategy based on a vision for the future of our country. If you take important key pieces away from the overall package that’s needed then you’re effectively limiting your vision and options.
     • tracey 2.2.1

       16 September 2017 at 11:19 am

       I think it shows their first and foremost priority was ridding us of National. How similar they now havre to be to them is the unansweted question.

       Why isnt this a tv Ad? They got oodles of extra dosh when she was appounted, use it.
       • weka 2.2.1.1

         16 September 2017 at 11:30 am

         TV Ad? God forbid 😉
       • Incognito 2.2.1.2

         16 September 2017 at 12:17 pm

         Sure, changing the government is priority but you keep your options open while doing so as that would be smart politics. To me, it felt like Labour got frightened and bought into National’s narrative. I’m no politician but could this not have been foreseen by Labour’s strategists?
       • Jane Bloore 2.2.1.3

         16 September 2017 at 12:19 pm

         I did see this ad on tv, though cannot remember which channel, and was pleased as I had emailed the Labour Party website begging them to get ads on tv rebutting the National attack ads on Labour’s tax policy.This was before the Party reverted to their original position of leaving any action on taxes to the 2020 election.
         Slightly off the point I saw Jacinda at the University of Otago campus yesterday. She spoke well, and got a positive reaction.
     • weka 2.2.2

       16 September 2017 at 11:29 am

       I thought at first she was saying never. But she uses the word never re CGT on family home, and the word ‘not’ re income tax. So I guess technically at some point they could revisit it if the working group says it’s a goer.

       What I’d really like to see is Labour open up the conversation for NZers next year on tax and what is it for and why its a good thing. Like they did with the Future of Work thing last year, but more comprehensively reaching out to NZers. They can still have their working group, but they could democratise it. Otherwise they’re going to have the likes of us criticising them every step of the way, and that’s going to be tedious.
       • tracey 2.2.2.1

         16 September 2017 at 12:17 pm

         The problem is the monied classes can fund lobby groups to hit tv and media…
       • Incognito 2.2.2.2

         16 September 2017 at 12:26 pm

         I think a public debate or at least public input is essential and not just in the area of tax (reforms?). But it could easily end up being time-consuming talk-fest that delivers no meaningful outcomes. I might be a bit harsh saying this but Future of Work got pushed into the background because of political expediency – very similar IMO to Sir John’s infamous and much-lauded ‘pragmatism’. I sincerely hope that Jacinda/Labour will risk burning some political capital in making a few bold decisions in their first term back in government. This is why it is important to have the right coalition partner(s).
         • weka 2.2.2.2.1

           16 September 2017 at 1:01 pm

           When the Future of Work got put out, the commentariat on TS spend the week basically slagging off Labour. I wrote a post about it but don’t think I ever published it. The person who responded to the FoW proposal directly was a regular RWer and he owned the debate.

           Not our finest hour. Yes Labour did bottle it, but I always think political parties follow the people any way. Their job is to do what the people want not the other way around 😉

           I’d really like to run a couple of projects on TS next year if I am able. One welfare and fixing WINZ, and then on a UBI. Maybe a week long blog festival on each, where people are invited to pitch ideas and everyone else can then build on that.
           • Incognito 2.2.2.2.1.1

             16 September 2017 at 2:38 pm

             Yes, he/she who sets the narrative and ‘owns’ the debate has the upper hand, also here on TS (even with appropriate even-handed moderation).

             I look forward to more debate on the UBI, etc., as I think it has enormous potential and merit.

             I just read a comment by Simon Louisson who phrased really well the debacle around Labour dropping the ball on the tax debate.

             https://thestandard.org.nz/lets-talk-about-tax-policy/#comment-1385021

             If Labour wants to be truly progressive it needs to be bold & brave and not scuttle back into protective hiding each time there is a perceived or real danger. If you have real values & vision you stand your ground …
3. Zeroque 3

   16 September 2017 at 11:14 am

   Unsure whether it’s going to happen however by means testing super a government can effectively reduce the amount of tax dollars refunded to the wealthy. I’m unsure how much revenue it would free up and it would depend on thresholds etc.
4. Rosemary McDonald 4

   16 September 2017 at 11:43 am

   Has anyone else had the Jacinda Robot Phonecall? (landline)

   Jacinda saying …”No, don’t hang up….” then launching into pretty much the same spiel.

   I called back the number…and give ’em credit it was not hidden….and got another male robot saying basically if you don’t want to be called, leave a message.
   • cleangreen 4.1

     16 September 2017 at 12:03 pm

     Rosemary
     My wife called our Daughter this morning as she (our daughter) had a landliine just connected this week, and she said she had an automated call from jacinda reminding her to enrol and she was happy to had been reminded.
     Hope this helps.
     • greywarshark 4.1.1

       16 September 2017 at 12:58 pm

       Have had two from the Greens about my pick for local election. First I didn’t know what I would say and put phone down (negative to non-personal calls) but gave my pick to the second call which might add to their feelings of wellbeing.
5. cleangreen 5

   16 September 2017 at 11:58 am

   Poission
   Horizon poll out today looks like your wobbly old school National Party will loose if Winston joins up with the Labour/ Green Government as labour & greens welcomed this on TV3 nation this morning Willie & Marama said so, ha ha ha ha!! Anything to get rid of national.

   https://horizonpoll.co.nz/page/477/main-partie?gtid=2831264570833SKR

   http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2017/09/battle-for-the-maori-seats.html
   • lprent 5.1

     16 September 2017 at 12:08 pm

     It is a self-selected internet poll. Not that interesting except for any trends.
   • Poission 5.2

     16 September 2017 at 12:35 pm

     Looks like the greens in this poll are within the realm of extinction ie the standard error.
     • cleangreen 5.2.1

       16 September 2017 at 1:09 pm

       You wish.
       • Poission 5.2.1.1

         16 September 2017 at 1:18 pm

         its a neat statistical fact.

         https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Empirical_Rule.PNG/450px-Empirical_Rule.PNG
         • cleangreen 5.2.1.1.1

           16 September 2017 at 2:26 pm

           poision it’s a neat statistical fact that historically both Greens & NZ First poll higher at the end of the electoral cycle.

           Try this at election time you will find that disapointing for your flawed beliefs.
           .
     • Incognito 5.2.2

       16 September 2017 at 3:09 pm

       The margin of error quoted applies to the midpoint, i.e. 50% (the mean). At either end of the bell shape curve the error becomes smaller.
       • cleangreen 5.2.2.1

         16 September 2017 at 3:29 pm

         Thats for the input Incognito.

         Imperical studies confirm this.
       • Poission 5.2.2.2

         16 September 2017 at 3:39 pm

         the poll claims statistically significance at 2 sigma,the margin of error encompasses extinction for the GP.
         • DSpare 5.2.2.2.1

           16 September 2017 at 3:56 pm

           You don’t even understand how wrong you are. But amusingly I saw that you referenced a normal distribution, but the with the range being limited at zero, you should really employ your namesake; the Poisson distribution.
         • Incognito 5.2.2.2.2

           16 September 2017 at 4:06 pm

           The MoE for the polling result for the Green Party is 7.7 ± 1.8% in this particular poll.
   • CC 5.3

     16 September 2017 at 11:50 pm

     Thanks Cleangreen for the Horizon link – depressing. My arsehole dominant age group along, with those who are are older and signing out soon, seem to be seriously suffering from senility and forget where they came from. So many from the ‘senior’ peer groups who benefited most from the radical social reforms of 1935 to 1949 obviously have no compunction about pulling up the ladder. Arseholes? Nah, far worse, whatever that is.
6. DSpare 6

   16 September 2017 at 4:02 pm

   Saw this in The Guardian, and it is interesting to see our election reported for the rest of the world who are barely aware of Aotearoa. This description of Ardern wouldn’t have been one I’d have gone with (though I assume it is accurate):

   the former Mormon who once aspired to be a police officer has decided she wants the top job and is working relentlessly to claim it.

   https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/sep/15/jacinda-ardern-new-zealand-election-campaign
7. Gee Brunnen 7

   17 September 2017 at 7:22 pm

   Partisan puke site. You can’t unread what your eyes have seen. Have a happy Sunday. Smile…

   [true, but fortunately I can stop other people having to read your hate speech. Permanent ban – weka]

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