Brexit or Bremain

123 comments on “Brexit or Bremain ”

• Comments are now closed

1. tc 1

   24 June 2016 at 6:34 am

   Another good example of where a few high profile individuals with issues such as Nigel Farrar and Batshit crazy Boris Johnson have been able to spout BS and lies playing on inherent fears and prejudices which may end up costing the UK very dearly.

   If they Brexit hey still have to spend the same as currently do to trade with the common market and comply with all the rules if Westminster vote to exit that is.

   Devaluing listed companies and making life generally more difficult will be the net result of going against the advice of all the expert group reports but hey Nigel and Boris have other experts opinions no doubt.
   • tc 1.1

     24 June 2016 at 6:55 am

     Damm predictive text and uneditable comments ! It’s Nigel Farage not our very own spinster DP proponents surname.
     • D'Esterre 1.1.1

       24 June 2016 at 2:25 pm

       tc: “…not our very own spinster….”

       Was that a Freudian slip?
     • Colonial Viper 1.1.2

       24 June 2016 at 3:56 pm

       Fully understand the majority wanting to get out of the unelected monstrosity that is the EU.
       • Richard McGrath 1.1.2.1

         24 June 2016 at 6:23 pm

         Agree there, CV. Now hopefully the people of Holland will get a chance to vote for independence.
       • Liberal Realist 1.1.2.2

         24 June 2016 at 6:30 pm

         Trouble is that the UK is likely to become even more close with the US in terms of trade and geopolitics, whose government is also effectively an unelected monstrosity – that’s if the UK exists in 2 years time.

         I recon Scotland will leave the UK within the next 2 years or so and join the EU/Eurozone (if they can meet EU entry requirements), could Wales or Northern Ireland be next?

         Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty has to be invoked before (legally) there’s no going back. Could parliament defy the referendum?
   • Richardrawshark 1.2

     24 June 2016 at 5:38 pm

     Boris you dork was on the exit side and not on the fear mongering if you exit side.

     Get it, Tory Cameron was on the remain side. Though I was totally for exiting. For many reasons. Scare mongering was never going to sway my mind.

     Sometimes to get ahead you have to take risks in life. I’m sure GB will rise once more.
     • weka 1.2.1

       24 June 2016 at 6:34 pm

       what were your reasons?
       • Richardrawshark 1.2.1.1

         24 June 2016 at 7:07 pm

         Er that’s a hard one to answer in NZ really.
         Here I go this will get nasty on me.

         I liked the economies of the commonwealth trade pact prior to Heath the prick folding to the French. Bringing Britain in the EU.

         I think a return to Britain seeking trade with her commonwealth countries FIRST rather than last, is and should never have been so easily enacted by Heath.

         and other reasons personal from having seen the demographic change for the worse.

         Lack of self direction, a national should have the right to steer her own coarse and Brussels being nanny state and it’s PC ridiculousness was annoying.

         I could go on.
         • weka 1.2.1.1.1

           24 June 2016 at 11:23 pm

           “I liked the economies of the commonwealth trade pact prior to Heath the prick folding to the French”

           What did you like?

           “I think a return to Britain seeking trade with her commonwealth countries FIRST rather than last, is and should never have been so easily enacted by Heath.”

           Didn’t follow that. Heath stopped Britain from trading with commonwealth countries first?
   • maninthemiddle 1.3

     24 June 2016 at 6:49 pm

     More scaremongering. England has made the right decision; they can once again take control of their own destiny, instead of being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats in Europe.
     • BM 1.3.1

       24 June 2016 at 6:54 pm

       I agree .
       I hadn’t really put much effort or thought into the whole thing until one of the posters here put up a link to the doco Brexit.

       Certainly opened my eyes to how the EU is run, no democracy should want any part of that set up.

       This is the best thing that’s happened to the UK in the past 50 years.
     • joe90 1.3.2

       24 June 2016 at 7:16 pm

       being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats in Europe.

       Opponents of the TPPA say the nation risks being dictated to by unelected bureaucrats corporate interests in the US.
       /
       • maninthemiddle 1.3.2.1

         25 June 2016 at 4:11 pm

         “Opponents of the TPPA” have said a lot of stupid things. That’s just one more for the list. The TPPA involves 12 sovereign nations, each of whom negotiate their terms and are free to leave at any time. The anti-US rhetoric is tired.
         • One Anonymous Bloke 1.3.2.1.1

           25 June 2016 at 5:35 pm

           In fact it’s anti-corporate rhetoric. English comprehension a bit too much for you?
           • maninthemiddle 1.3.2.1.1.1

             27 June 2016 at 12:53 am

             Then why single out the US? Are you suggesting the US is the only nation with corporates?? (snigger).
             • One Anonymous Bloke …

               27 June 2016 at 7:19 am

               No. I’m observing that you struggle to comprehend English. Thanks for illustrating my point again.
               • maninthemiddle …

                 27 June 2016 at 10:36 am

                 Obtuse, aren’t you? Joe90 mentioned US corporates. Nothing else. No comprehension problem here.
                 • One Anonymous Bloke …

                   27 June 2016 at 12:07 pm

                   Apart from claiming it was an example of anti-US sentiment, that is. If it’s “anti-US” to point out the unhealthy influence of money in Congress (like Cabinet Club and other National Party corrupt practices in NZ), how do you account for the number of US citizens saying the same thing?

                   Joe adding his voice to theirs sounds quite pro-US to me: I’d like them to take out the right wing trash who’re ruining their country too.
                   • maninthemiddle …

                     28 June 2016 at 2:27 pm

                     It’s anti US because corporates exist outside the US. It is also incredibly disingenuous to point the finger at corporate influence over politics in the US without also pointing out the influence of other lobby groups, including organised labour, in the US and elsewhere. In short, you’re showing your bias. And I’m calling you on it.
                   • One Anonymous Bloke …

                     28 June 2016 at 3:21 pm

                     Speaking of disingenuous 🙄
2. Greg 2

   24 June 2016 at 7:16 am

   The EU is a money pit, it wont reform or get better because its now like the UN.
   Britain’s leave may for changes so will be good for the EU. What does Britain export now anyway?
3. Sanctuary 3

   24 June 2016 at 7:27 am

   Only an idiot would vote to leave.
   • Puckish Rogue 3.1

     24 June 2016 at 8:36 am

     Hasn’t seemed to hurt Switzerland not being in the EU
     • Tiger Mountain 3.1.1

       24 June 2016 at 9:04 am

       another Tax Haven
       • Richard McGrath 3.1.1.1

         24 June 2016 at 6:58 pm

         There is tax at federal, cantonal and municipal level in Switzerland, so the ticket gets clipped many times over.
4. Tiger Mountain 4

   24 June 2016 at 7:33 am

   the poms will look more and more a nation modelled on the recent Baron Cohen film “Grimsby” if they do leave the EU

   they will obviously still need to trade and travel and deal with the geo politics of their European neighbours one way or another, and a vote with say just 1% or 2% in it will mean it will surely be revisited

   but I agree with other leftists luke warm on the whole thing, there is an EU neo liberal hegemony that plays hardball as Greece demonstrated, so the unity that is most needed is class unity of action across Europe, like French unionists and activists are demonstrating
5. Keith 5

   24 June 2016 at 8:20 am

   Although this is vaguely interesting in a bored spectator sort of way a former world power who faded away a long time ago and who in reality nowadays is barely relevant to NZ anymore will make next to no difference to us should they leave the EU

   As long as we do what the US wants, buy off US corporations and contribute to their wars, not much is going to change here, despite the predictions of Four Horseman of thue Apocalypse arriving on our door steps if Blighty exits!
6. Pat 6

   24 June 2016 at 8:29 am

   Lol…where did the heading poster come from?
   • r0b 6.1

     24 June 2016 at 9:20 am

     Not sure the source – doing the rounds on Twitter. It was also emailed to me by a friend in England, as it happens.
     • Pasupial 6.1.1

       24 June 2016 at 9:50 am

       Mandatory Clown Service is terrifying!
7. Lanthanide 7

   24 June 2016 at 8:41 am

   It’ll be remain, I’m picking 53 to 47.
   • te reo putake 7.1

     24 June 2016 at 9:04 am

     I’d say 51 to stay, 49 to go. The killing of Jo Cox has stalled the leave campaign, just as it was consolidating it’s lead. I’d say the undecided’s will default to the status quo and it will be remain to sneak home.

     Turnout will be interesting. Unlike general and local elections, this referendum seems to be engaging the British voters.
     • Puckish Rogue 7.1.1

       24 June 2016 at 9:35 am

       Agreed, the people who want to leave are probably more motivated to vote then the ones who want to stay
     • Richard McGrath 7.1.2

       24 June 2016 at 6:59 pm

       Close, TRP, well predicted.
   • r0b 7.2

     24 June 2016 at 9:26 am

     Remain 55 leave 45.
     • r0b 7.2.1

       24 June 2016 at 11:37 am

       Sunderland and Newcastle make my prediction look silly already! Could be very close.
       • Lanthanide 7.2.1.1

         24 June 2016 at 11:40 am

         Even mine is looking a bit shakey.
         • r0b 7.2.1.1.1

           24 June 2016 at 12:47 pm

           Starting to feel like Leave could win it. If so, perhaps the polls of a week back were the true reflection, and more recently Leave folk were ashamed / lying to pollsters.

           Ahh well, early days yet.
       • Richardrawshark 7.2.1.2

         24 June 2016 at 1:03 pm

         My mothers side comes from Sunderland, traditional olden day mining and shipyards area, Bloody geordies let the team down, us macams voted the right way.
         • Anno1701 7.2.1.2.1

           24 June 2016 at 1:41 pm

           “My mothers side comes from Sunderland,”

           Cmon you black cats !
   • Colonial Viper 7.3

     24 June 2016 at 3:57 pm

     BREXIT rules ok.
8. mickysavage 8

   24 June 2016 at 9:37 am

   Herald calls it for remain even before the Guardian …

   “Has Remain won? Ukip leader Nigel Farage concedes defeat within seconds of voting closing… details soon”
9. RedLogix 9

   24 June 2016 at 9:41 am

   With the margin so close either way, and the result not binding, I don’t think there will be a political mandate to leave.

   I’d imagine the leave vote would always needed to have exceeded 60% to make a compelling enough case to change the status quo.

   But having said that, this result will send shivers down many a backbone in Brussels.
   • Bill 9.1

     24 June 2016 at 12:07 pm

     Remember how Ireland returned the ‘wrong’ verdict on austerity and were told to re-run the vote so that the ‘right’ verdict could be had?

     Mind you. Since this was (I think) a UK referendum as opposed to one over seen by Brussels, it would be binding enough. A Brexit would take about two years to ‘negotiate’ and I’m sure a lot could ‘happen’ in that time to change peoples’ minds.
   • Ben 9.2

     24 June 2016 at 12:47 pm

     Like the Paid Parental Leave veto? A 61 to 60 vote did not present a compelling case to change.
10. mauī 10

    24 June 2016 at 9:48 am

    Remaining in something that is ripping itself apart, sure go for it, but the day is just being put off.
11. One Two 11

    24 June 2016 at 10:18 am

    It only matters who counts the votes and controls the messaging, as per Florida in 2000 for an example

    The EU is finished as an experiment and it is now only a matter of time before the nation states takes back their sovereignty

    Too many people are aware of the established lies coming from corporate controlled entities, the un-elected and all of the lies and fraud which these industries have been built

    There is a storm coming
12. mikesh 12

    24 June 2016 at 10:20 am

    If they remain they will probably come under pressure to join the eurozone. One would hope that they would resist such pressure, but who knows. At any rate a vote to remain will certainly strengthen the arm of those who would like to see Britain abandon the pound.
    • Lanthanide 12.1

      24 June 2016 at 10:39 am

      Nah.

      If they came under pressure to join the eurozone, then Leave would win easily in a subsequent referendum.
13. Pasupial 13

    24 June 2016 at 10:48 am

    The Guardian count seems glitchy:

    Gibralter at 142% remain,
    Total at 96% remain, with 381 of 382 local authorities to declare.

    Anyone know of a better site to follow the count on?
    • ScottGN 13.1

      24 June 2016 at 11:15 am

      Watching Dimbleby on the Beeb.
      After the Newcastle result I’m wondering if the “Shy Tory” phenomenon is going to kick in. Did Leave voters clam up towards the pollsters in the final days as opprobrium was heaped on Farage for the migrant poster?
14. ScottGN 14

    24 June 2016 at 11:26 am

    BBC saying turnout in Scotland is lower than expected, they’re putting it down to voter fatigue after the GE and IndyRef.
15. weka 15

    24 June 2016 at 11:35 am

    “The choice is clear really….”

    I don’t think so, which is the point. Beyond the ‘they’re all racists’ rhetoric, there are arguments to be made for leaving.

    That the EU is consolidating power and wealth even more in the hands of the upper echelons and leaving the bottom percentages to drown.

    That this will be even harder to address because of the size of the union.

    That in an age of climate change increasing growth is a madness, and reigning in the economy is urgently needed.

    That the bigger you go the less democracy you have, and that true democracy can only happen on the small scale. The Union makes that impossible.

    That culture and community are actual things that need protecting and as we are losing sight of the people that are being left behind we are also losing sight of what is being lost in terms of how society functions. (preserving culture and community is not incompatible with immigration).

    A couple of articles from a Guardian columnist who was undecided on which way to vote,

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/22/what-does-this-vote-mean-if-one-feels-utterly-powerless-in-every-other-way

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/08/voters-will-stick-two-fingers-lecturing-brexit-dangers
    • Draco T Bastard 15.1

      24 June 2016 at 4:45 pm

      +1

      Pretty much all the reasons I have for NZ not joining with Australia.
      • weka 15.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 4:59 pm

        Was just thinking about NZ and Oz as people tweet about comparisons between US and EU.
16. Bill 16

    24 June 2016 at 11:59 am

    Remain ran a ‘Project Fear’ based on economic predictions.
    Leave ran a ‘Project Fear’ based on economic predictions.

    To no avail, the Remain advocates were warned not to run a fear campaign on the evidence of the festering sore they created with their negative ‘No’ campaign on the Scottish Independence referendum. (They are more or less the same people involved in ‘Remain’ as were involved in ‘No’.)

    Okay. So both sides ran on negative economic shit stirring.

    But here’s a question. If the referendum is about a European Union, then somewhat instinctively, one would expect there to be a fairly visible or central social dimension to the whole debate.

    But there is no obvious social dimension (I can’t recall ‘Remain’ arguing on the grounds of any social union, can you?) That’s a huge problem and an indication of financial dominance exploiting a dearth of democracy.

    A European Union has potential, but for it to be realised, bankers, technocrats, bureaucrats and financiers have to be subjected to the relentless whip of democracy – and that whip doesn’t currently exist within Europe.

    So, stay or go?

    Depends on whether it’s believed that democratic pressures can be brought to bear on the current fundamentally undemocratic set-up that allows financiers to ride roughshod and unchallenged across the peoples of Europe.
    • Anne 16.1

      24 June 2016 at 12:40 pm

      Latest Guardian report:

      Leave ahead of Remain. Pound starting to crash. Early days but panic is already setting in?

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-result-live-counting-leave-remain-brain-in-europe
      • Bill 16.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 1:11 pm

        I don’t tend to put too much store by economic indicators. Short of a peace and tranquility we’d associate with the graveyard, they tend to spasticate in response to just about anything.

        When Argentina defaulted on its debt, the story was that ‘the sky would fall in’. In reality, there was a short lived economic glitch before all the greed heads rushed back into a space where money could be made.

        Anyway. ‘Leave’ presents two years or so of opportunity during exit negotiations for ‘things to happen’ that might change peoples’ minds.

        Another potential independence referendum in Scotland should the vote there be at variance with the rest of the UK, important as that may be for ordinary people, is probably only of minor significance to the bankers and financiers who will be ‘gaming’ for a change of mind in the populace if ‘Leave’ wins this vote.

        And again, that’s what the problem has been with all of this shit. It’s primarily about money and finances; not people.
    • weka 16.2

      24 June 2016 at 1:11 pm

      I thought there was a fairly clear socioeconomic dimension, that unfortunately got channelled into the anti-immigration/nationalist stuff.
      • Bill 16.2.1

        24 June 2016 at 1:30 pm

        When I say social dimension, I mean in the way that someone like myself considers themselves to be European – ie, not in any meaningful socio/economic way, but more in terms of cultural identity.

        I’ll put it like this. I’m Scottish and European. But many people in England would tend to see themselves as English and British while expressing antipathy towards any idea of ‘European’.

        Similarly, many (overwhelming numbers of?) French or German or Spanish people would unthinkingly view themselves as European in spite of the socio/economic bullshit.
17. ScottGN 17

    24 June 2016 at 1:11 pm

    Labour voters have pretty much said bugger it and have turned out for Leave. A senior Labour Party official has told Laura Kuenssberg on the BBC that they think Leave has won.
    • weka 17.1

      24 June 2016 at 1:20 pm

      Alex Salmond, the former SNP leader and Scottish first minister, is on the BBC. Asked about the way Labour sources are briefing against the SNP (see 1.56am), he said that in Scotland remain was winning in the industrial areas where the SNP are dominant by 60/40. But in England, where Labour hold seats like that, leave is winning, he said. If Labour wanted to work out who to blame, they should look to themselves, he said.

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-result-live-counting-leave-remain-brain-in-europe
18. Bill 18

    24 June 2016 at 1:21 pm

    And true to type, Labour ‘party sources’ are blaming the SNP for the potential failure of ‘Remain’.

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-result-live-counting-leave-remain-brain-in-europe?page=with:block-576c84eae4b0f430381096e8#block-576c84eae4b0f430381096e8

    Thing is…of all the Scottish results in so far, not one result is for ‘Leave’.
    • Poission 18.1

      24 June 2016 at 1:30 pm

      Well in the labour heartland Sutherland they resoundingly voted to exit,nice background story here.

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-15/eu-referendum-sunderland-voters-dispute-brexit-warnings

      The have probably had enough of empty suits and intellectuals .The revolution begins.

      https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/745939585197346816

      Or to put it another way,the nightmare on lobbyist street.

      https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/741262215949471749
    • red-blooded 18.2

      24 June 2016 at 6:35 pm

      Surely the quote above from the SNP guy is doing exactly that (blaming) to Labour?
19. dukeofurl 19

    24 June 2016 at 1:42 pm

    Scotland seems to favouring Remain, but if all of UK votes to leave then Scotland wont get another referendum for this reason.
    Reason: SNP dont currently have a majority in Holyrood unlike the previous parliament
    • Pasupial 19.1

      24 June 2016 at 2:28 pm

      There are 129 Scots MPs, 63 of these are SNP MPs. Is it so very unimaginable that 2 MPs from other parties might vote with the SNP for a new independence referendum in light of Scotland’s overwhelming remain majority?

      Some, or all, of the 6 Green MPs would seem most likely to support such a motion.

      Edit: Of course; if that did occur, and Scotland gained its independence, then we’d probably be looking at another flag referendum ourselves. Once the UK worked out what their new flag would be. All drenched with Key’s smugness too. I’d guess I’d be happy for Scotland, but glum for Aotearoa.
      • Bill 19.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 2:36 pm

        The Scottish green Party is pro-independence and was an integral part of the ‘Yes’ campaign.

        I believe there are also moves within Scottish Labour to remove the whip on the question of independence.
        • Colonial Viper 19.1.1.1

          24 June 2016 at 3:59 pm

          dukeofurl making uninformed assumptions
20. Lanthanide 20

    24 June 2016 at 1:58 pm

    Here’s a proportional map: https://www.buzzfeed.com/aliciamelvillesmith/its-almost-over?utm_term=.ud7L1vMND#.haV5rpYdx
    • Bob 20.1

      24 June 2016 at 3:42 pm

      Visual map and country breakdown here: http://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results
      • b waghorn 20.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 3:53 pm

        Cool site that one
        Any one know England well enough to see a link between the areas wanting to stay .?
        • lprent 20.1.1.1

          24 June 2016 at 4:14 pm

          Mostly urban areas, and Scotland. Look at Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Greater London, Belfast

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Primary_Urban_Areas_in_England_by_population

          Even Leeds is close.
          • Colonial Viper 20.1.1.1.1

            24 June 2016 at 4:27 pm

            Sheffield Brexit.
          • b waghorn 20.1.1.1.2

            24 June 2016 at 4:31 pm

            Urban areas would have more immigrants and educated people as opposed to rural areas I guess . and I found the Scots to be clever sensible people in my time there.
21. hoom 21

    24 June 2016 at 3:36 pm

    BBC coverage…
    Guest: blah blah Cameron partly to blam…
    Presenter: yes but lets talk about how this was Labours failure
    Guest: well it was Camero…
    Presenter: no but Labour blame Labour, Labour fault Labour

    I was keen on the EU when it showed signs of being a Social Democratic moderate foil to USes’ rampant war & extreme capitalism.

    But what it appears to have become is a US client state pushing the same wars & capitalist crap.

    I certainly don’t think UK will suddenly lurch Left from a Brexit, almost certainly the other way but I think Brexit is for the better of both.

    Interesting that Scotland is voting Remain, SNP saying they’ll run another Leave UK referendum -> Scotland in EU & rest out is an interesting possibility.
    • hoom 21.1

      24 June 2016 at 4:54 pm

      On BBC coverage again:
      Start of the night had loads of cool graphics but not really any results to use for it.
      End of the night no graphics when it would have been actually interesting, just talking heads X-/
22. Ovid 22

    24 June 2016 at 3:43 pm

    The BBC has called it. The UK will leave the EU.
23. weka 23

    24 June 2016 at 3:58 pm

    General consensus on leftie twitter seems to be wellbeing of the economy is the most important thing.
24. Colonial Viper 24

    24 June 2016 at 4:00 pm

    The match which starts GFC2. Called it first.
    • weka 24.1

      24 June 2016 at 4:04 pm

      Watching them run round with their heads chopped off. Perhaps some people might wake up to the fact that basing one’s livelihood and wellbeing on ones and zeros being manipulated by people with no ethics is not such a good idea.
    • marty mars 24.2

      24 June 2016 at 4:13 pm

      nah

      http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-24062016/#comment-1193549

      I did use a question mark and I will concede that you know much more about this than I ever could be bothered to know so… well done – if that is the correct phase in these dire circumstances…
      • Colonial Viper 24.2.1

        24 June 2016 at 4:23 pm

        heh nice one MM
    • Infused 24.3

      24 June 2016 at 4:29 pm

      Don’t think so. It’s the media/politics making such a big deal out of it. There is going to be market shock, but the world will get over it.
    • b waghorn 24.4

      24 June 2016 at 4:35 pm

      And some will make a killing.
25. hoom 25

    24 June 2016 at 4:21 pm

    So if there is Brexit can Grexit be looked at again?
    • Colonial Viper 25.1

      24 June 2016 at 4:25 pm

      No, although the Greeks should leave the Euro zone. Something quite different.
      • Lanthanide 25.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 4:33 pm

        The Eurozone doesn’t have any provisions for leaving it, which was part of the problem.
      • Lanthanide 25.1.2

        24 June 2016 at 4:33 pm

        The Eurozone doesn’t have any provisions for leaving it, which was part of the problem.
26. BM 26

    24 June 2016 at 4:27 pm

    Where does this leave Scotland?

    No more sucking on the EU teat.
    • Greg 26.1

      24 June 2016 at 5:12 pm

      They have the North Sea oil, is it enough to cover losing the British Health system n social welfare security.
      • BM 26.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 5:17 pm

        Apparently they’e winding that up.
        • b waghorn 26.1.1.1

          24 June 2016 at 5:30 pm

          The oil or the health care?
          • BM 26.1.1.1.1

            24 June 2016 at 5:35 pm

            The oil, crazy thing I’ve read.

            I’ll see if I can find the link

            Edit: Here it is

            http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b3255c92-2bca-11e6-a18d-a96ab29e3c95.html#axzz4CTLeTsPF

            Fucking madness.
            • Draco T Bastard 26.1.1.1.1.1

              24 June 2016 at 7:18 pm

              By the looks of things the North Sea Oil is well past it’s peak which pretty much means to say that it just gets more and more expensive to produce. It seems that the only reason why Norway is keeping production level is because they’re massively subsidising the corporations.

              Throw in Climate Change and shutting down the North Sea rigs is probably the best idea.
              • BM …

                24 June 2016 at 7:28 pm

                Mothball it, at least for the next 50 years.
                Don’t rip it out and destroy all the infra structure, that’s utter madness.
                • Draco T Bastard …

                  24 June 2016 at 7:38 pm

                  Mothballing would required continued maintenance and there’s no way that private companies are going to pay for that. Hell, I’m amazed that the UK government managed to get them to pay for the clean up.
27. Bill 27

    24 June 2016 at 4:30 pm

    N. Ireland voted to remain. As did Scotland.

    So a decidedly un-United Kingdom exit vote?

    There will be much working behind the scenes to ensure that the exit vote doesn’t ever actually result in the UK exiting the European Union. Among the incentives will be the fact that the Northern Ireland peace accord becomes null and void in the event of the UK leaving the EU. And that’s not a thing anyone will ever be wanting to revisit.

    What would be good – very good – would be if this vote served as a wake-up call to Brussels and unleashed a move to thoroughly democratise Europe’s bureaucracy.
    • Colonial Viper 27.1

      24 June 2016 at 5:01 pm

      What would be good – very good – would be if this vote served as a wake-up call to Brussels and unleashed a move to thoroughly democratise Europe’s bureaucracy.

      Doesn’t seem likely that backroom strategies by the elite to stall action on the democratic BREXIT vote is going to somehow lead to the elite to genuinely democratise the EU bureaucracy.
      • Bill 27.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 5:14 pm

        British elites thwart the ‘exit’.

        Brussels based elites, seeing the writing on the wall as it were, maneuver to preserve what they can of their power through a process of ‘opening up’ lest ‘Brexit’ becomes a bit of fashion.

        Talk to almost any European and they will tell you the same thing about Brussels btw. It’s despised.

        So, if the Brussels elites act out of a sense of self preservation and begins a limited process that the peoples of Europe then take away from them and push to its furthest extent….

        In can see it as one among a range of possibilities.
28. Ovid 28

    24 June 2016 at 4:35 pm

    Am being told that Cameron and Osborne are finished. There will be a “dignified exit” say senior Tories. “Not immediate” – ITV journalist Allegra Stratton via Twitter

    Cameron will be gone before the year is out.
29. weka 29

    24 June 2016 at 4:57 pm

    Is it binding?

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-legally-binding-brexit-lisbon-cameron-sovereign-parliament
    • Bill 29.1

      24 June 2016 at 5:24 pm

      Here’s a historical ‘precedent’ that might answer your question.

      In 1978 there was a referendum on Scottish devolution. The results came back in favour of devolution. The then Labour government ‘honoured’ the referendum result by pointing out that the call for devolution only came out ahead amongst those who actually voted and then reasoned that anyone not voting was obviously against devolution.

      Could…would…Cameron?
      • RedLogix 29.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 7:24 pm

        I still wonder if it will reach a majority in Parliament. Two years is a long time and IF the some of the predicted worst case consequences hit the UK …. I’d imagine there would some very, very cold feet.
30. Colonial Viper 30

    24 June 2016 at 4:58 pm

    Results so far by geography:

    (From the Guardian live blog)

    (Looks to me like the former mining/industrial/real economy areas of the UK voted strongly to leave. City of London/London, South UK and Scotland voted strongly to stay.)

    Eastern
    After 43 results out of 47 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,273,544 – 43.24%
    Leave 1,671,469 – 56.76%

    East Midlands
    After 32 results out of 40 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 798,353 – 41.56%
    Leave 1,122,403 – 58.44%

    London
    After 29 results out of 33 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes
    Remain 1,955,018 – 59.94%
    Leave 1,306,503 – 40.06%

    North-east
    After 11 results out of 12 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 480,573 41.36
    Leave 681,404 58.64

    Northern Ireland
    After one result out of one in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1 440,707 55.78
    Leave 0 349,442 44.22

    North-west
    After 38 results out of 39 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,603,565 – 46.18%
    Leave 1,868,843 – 53.82%

    Scotland
    After 32 results out of 32 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,661,191 – 62.00%
    Leave 1,018,322 – 38.00%

    South-east
    After 58 results out of 67 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,937,512 – 47.71%
    Leave 2,123,281 – 52.29%

    South-west & Gibraltar
    After 31 results out of 38 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,122,386 – 47.86%
    Leave 1,222,974 – 52.14%

    Wales
    After 22 results out of 22 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 772,347 – 47.47%
    Leave 854,572 – 52.53%

    West Midlands
    After 27 results out of 30 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,038,695 – 40.89%
    Leave 1,501,474 – 59.11%

    Yorkshire & The Humber
    After 20 results out of 21 in the EU referendum, running totals are:
    Voting Total Share
    areas votes %
    Remain 1,094,681 – 41.63%
    Leave 1,534,954 – 58.37%
    • Colonial Viper 30.1

      24 June 2016 at 5:03 pm

      And this also from the Guardian live blog

      Top 10 leave

      Boston – 75.6%
      South Holland – 73.6%
      Castle Point – 72.7%
      Thurrock – 72.3%
      Great Yarmouth – 71.5%
      Fenland – 71.4%
      Mansfield – 70.9%
      Bolsover – 70.8%
      North East Lincolnshire – 69.9%
      Ashfield – 69.8%

      Top 10 remain

      Gibraltar – 95.9%
      Lambeth – 78.6%
      Hackney – 78.5%
      Haringey – 75.6%
      City of London – 75.3%
      Islington – 75.2%
      Wandsworth – 75.0%
      Camden – 74.9%
      Edinburgh – 74.4%
      East Renfrewshire – 74.3%
      • hoom 30.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 5:20 pm

        Funny how you sometimes see ‘Commonwealth’ names like Boston better known for their non-UK namesakes show up in News & get confused.
        Boston UK is only like 40k people.

        Also UK really has some of the most bizzare place names O_o
        • Colonial Viper 30.1.1.1

          24 June 2016 at 5:25 pm

          Yep like Casterly Rock, Riverrun and Winterfell
        • Lanthanide 30.1.1.2

          24 June 2016 at 6:17 pm

          There’s a Christchurch and also a Canterbury in the south, too.
        • te reo putake 30.1.1.3

          24 June 2016 at 7:19 pm

          Skegness, just down the road from Boston is one of the weirdest towns I’ve ever visited. The town motto is “It’s bracing”, hardly an encouragement to spend the day at the beachside fun fair. Hi de Hi, campers!
31. Stuart Munro 31

    24 June 2016 at 5:23 pm

    Putin will be happy. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/11/putin-threat-europe-islamic-state
32. ianmac 32

    24 June 2016 at 5:55 pm

    Was the release of the Ombudsman’s report timed to get swamped by the Brexit?
    • Anne 32.1

      24 June 2016 at 7:25 pm

      I doubt it because everyone thought ‘Remain’ was going to win so it would have been business as usual after 24 hrs.
33. Pat 33

    24 June 2016 at 6:22 pm

    so no more sex in Britain and holidays in Dunstable.
    • Greg 33.1

      24 June 2016 at 7:25 pm

      It should put a plug on the Eastern European sex trafficking rife in Britain,
      and selling Indian/ Nepalese kids as domestic slaves:

      https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/apr/04/child-nepal-earthquake-slaves-sold-uk
      • Pat 33.1.1

        24 June 2016 at 7:28 pm

        may have an effect on the eastern european angle but will have no impact on Nepalese /Indian
      • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1.2

        24 June 2016 at 8:16 pm

        How will one extra border to cross put a stop to Britain’s slave trade?
        • Greg 33.1.2.1

          24 June 2016 at 10:26 pm

          I did say plug, not stop.
          They want to deport criminals, now they can.
          1-5 in British high security jails are Muslims.
          • One Anonymous Bloke 33.1.2.1.1

            25 June 2016 at 5:32 am

            Ah, you’re a racist. Fuck off.
34. Sabine 34

    24 June 2016 at 7:29 pm

    David Cameron resigns.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-results-live-brexit-wins-as-britain-votes-to-leave/
35. ScottGN 35

    24 June 2016 at 7:29 pm

    They’re all showing the strain on the BBC, it’s getting pretty ragged.
36. swordfish 36

    24 June 2016 at 8:06 pm

    Another Epic Fail for UK Pollsters, Gov’nr. Especially the Phone-based polls.

    Here are the final polls released immediately before (and, in two cases, during) the vote:

    Populus (On-Line) Remain by 10 points
    Com Res (Phone) Remain by 8 points
    ORB (Phone) Remain by 8 points
    BMG (Phone) Remain by 7.6 points
    Ipsos Mori (Phone) Remain by 4 points
    YouGov (On-Line) Remain by 2 points
    Survation (Phone) Remain by 1 point

    Opinium (On-Line) Leave by 1.3 points
    TNS (On-Line) Leave by 2.4 points

    Populus and Ipsos-Mori were the last two polls to be released.

• Comments are now closed

• Log in
• Donate
• Contribute post

• Articles RSS