Daily review 10/02/2022

43 comments on “Daily review 10/02/2022 ”

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   10 February 2022 at 6:39 pm

   The police managed the antivax crowd exceptionally well.
   • Grey Area 1.1

     10 February 2022 at 6:45 pm

     Easy to be wise in hindsight I guess but I am puzzled that the rabble at Parliament were able to abandon their motor vehicles in the capital's streets with impunity and allowed to set up tents in the grounds of Parliament in contravention of the rules, both on Tuesday.

     They have the right to protest but wouldn't it have been better to have dealt with these problematic aspects of this protest, especially setting up tents, gazebos etc at the very start?

     In the TVNZ report tonight it was acknowledged police were short of resources on Tuesday but was no-one monitoring the convoy as it arrived in Wellington?
   • Matiri 1.2

     10 February 2022 at 7:01 pm

     It was fascinating watching the police crowd control in action on Stuff's live feed. I was impressed how they handled themselves in a very difficult situation.
     • Grey Area 1.2.1

       10 February 2022 at 7:04 pm

       Likewise.
   • ianmac 1.3

     10 February 2022 at 7:50 pm

     Agreed Robert. Orderly. Quick to adjust to change. Courteous, Not weighed down with riot gear. Contained a mob which seriously outnumbered them. And faced a leaderless mob who had no proclaimed focus, that I could see. Freedom demanded to what exactly?
   • Anker 1.4

     10 February 2022 at 10:42 pm

     Robert I agree with your comment about the police. I watched the live webcam for a while. They were disciplined and held the line.
   • mauī 1.5

     10 February 2022 at 11:54 pm

     Does it bring back happy memories of 1981 or Bastion Point for you?
     • Robert Guyton 1.5.1

       11 February 2022 at 11:37 am

       There's little point in abusing police when your argument is with someone else.
   • mary_a 1.6

     11 February 2022 at 11:29 am

     Robert.
2. Patricia Bremner 2

   10 February 2022 at 7:21 pm

   Grey Area, I think Police realised it was the way to show how self interested they are. "Rights you know".

   So Wellingtonians and others soon felt "Move on, you have had your say."

   No-one is surprised that they are being moved on. The woman divorcing her husband for getting the booster. Wow. So she wanted her choice and his as well. She added "He will die you know" Cognitive dissonance much.
   • Anne 2.1

     10 February 2022 at 7:47 pm

     Cognitive dissonance is almost an understatement with this lot Patricia Bremner. They live in an alternate world where reality cannot survive. Its quite scary to what lengths the disordered mindset of some humans will sink in order not to confront that which they don't want to – or can't – comprehend.

     A sense of the madness:
     https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-officers-filmed-dragging-naked-protester-by-her-hair-on-parliament-grounds/WIUX2YWMET3BUYZ57IK6I5NPOA/
     • Peter 2.1.1

       10 February 2022 at 10:25 pm

       A naked woman was grabbed by her hair? Not by her clothing? Wow.
       • Anker 2.1.1.1

         10 February 2022 at 10:40 pm

         Peter I saw that on the webcam. I don't know why the police targetted her (just possible she was psychiatrically unwell, but I can't be sure).

         There was a paramedic there who immediately gave the women a blanket or sheet so that she was able to be covered.
         • Anne 2.1.1.1.1

           10 February 2022 at 11:06 pm

           I'm sure they removed her because she was naked. Had they not done so I imagine there would have been complaints because someone would have filmed her walking around naked.

           The police would have treated her carefully once they were able to get her out of the melee and sought assistance if there were signs of mental distress. On the other hand, she may have simply been trying to draw attention to herself.
           • Anker 2.1.1.1.1.1

             11 February 2022 at 9:14 am

             Hi Anne, just to clarify there would be evey good reason to remove that woman. Being naked in a demonstration leaves her vulnerable. I don't know what her motivation was, but I thought it was handled incredibly well. They lay the woman on the ground (at this stage I wasn't even sure if it was a woman, because there were police around her and you couldn't see her front, but it was clear she was naked. Then seemlessly and very promptly the paramedic produced a sheet or blanket and she was covered. When she was marched off she had the sheet covering her, so she wasn't exposed as such.
   • weka 2.2

     10 February 2022 at 11:14 pm

     So Wellingtonians and others soon felt "Move on, you have had your say."

     If this was SS4C kids I'd be cheering them on. This is legitimate protest and civil disobedience action in the centre of NZ democracy, even if we disagree with that reasons.
     • Patricia Bremner 2.2.1

       11 February 2022 at 7:39 am

       So would I but this is not a fight for good is it?
       • Patricia Bremner 2.2.1.1

         11 February 2022 at 8:01 am

         This seemed to publish without the rest of the comment. The anti mandate people appear to have left and the rest of the group are various voices of general dissent, if this had been about improving life I would back them as well. I believe in protest. These people don't care about others safety in a pandemic, some even shouted into the Police officers faces. They are being managed to move on. The comment was not a dissing of legitimate protest, just a reflection of the comments from the locals, who also have rights which the police are carefully balancing.
         • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.1.1.1

           11 February 2022 at 8:58 am

           These people don't care about others safety in a pandemic,

           You couldn't be more wrong Patricia Bremner.

           It’s for the family members banned from visiting loved ones in nursing homes.

           It's for the people who couldn't attend funerals and bury their loved ones.

           <>It’s for censorship on all social media platforms.

           <>It’s for all the people too afraid to speak up in fear of being called conspiracy theorists.

           <>It’s for the people who willingly got the J because they were told it would end the lockdowns.</>

           <>It’s for the people who willingly got the J so they could open their business again, only to be told they can’t.</>

           <>It's for all the Kiwis who can no longer buy homes because of housing unaffordability and unavailability.</>

           <>It’s for the people who didn’t want to get J but were coerced to.</>

           <>It’s for the people who don’t want to give up their freedom of choice.</>

           <>It’s for the people who only want answers to the many questions that haven’t been answered. It’s for the people told to be to afraid to hug their family and visit their friends.</>

           <>It’s for the kids to go back to being kids and to stop having to live their life's revolving around politicians’ whims.</>

           <>It’s for all the religious people who were told their faith “doesn’t count”.</>

           <>It’s for all the families that lost a loved one to suicide. It’s for all the people who took their own lives due to this entrapment. Its for the mental health advocates that love and care but who aren't being supported and heard.</>

           <>Its for our people too, especially our teenagers, who can't access the mental health services and counselling that they so much need.</>

           <>It’s for all the thousands of nurses, doctors, police, emergency services of all kinds, teachers, early childhood workers & many other trade workers who have lost their job due to not wanting to have the J for their own personal beliefs. It’s for the people who want their lives back. For the hairdressers to cut hair. For the restaurants to serve food to everyone. For the bars to play music. For the students to learn. For the kids to be free. For the people made homeless. For people who want to work but are forced not to. This is for those people.</>

           <>This is for trying to silence honest and hardworking citizens. This is for all the people told they can’t go to church.</>

           <>This is for trying to steal local water assets via Three Waters Reform. This is for trying to restrict our freedom of speech, our fundamental democratic right.</>

           <>This is for trying to remove our religious freedoms through shaming & bullying.</>

           <>This is for spending billions on advertising campaigns instead of using it to actually care for our sick & elderly. What a shame!</>

           <>This is for the abuse taking place in our long term care facilities that have been swept under the rug for too long.</>

           <>This is for the sufferers of adverse side effects being ignored & shamed. This is for the lives that we lost to the J. We will never forget you nor will we stop fighting for the justice we deserve. This is for trying to demonize good people. This is for trying to create a two-tier society. Never in my life have I ever seen the healthy punished and the sick untreated…Why have we made the cure worse then the problem itself?</>

           <>This is for the 300,000 surgeries canceled because of the “health emergency”.</>

           <>This is for the people that died waiting for their surgery.</>

           <>This is for the people who died alone in the hospital without being able to hold the hands of their loved ones.</>

           <>This is for everyone, even those that don't think they need it, it's for them and their children too. This is for the shattered relationships of families and friends, divided by the hysterical fear-mongering conducted by their government and MSM.</>

           <>This is for the exhausted nurses. This is for the doctors that are threatened. This is for all the front line workers… delivery trucks, grocery store clerks & emergency service workers who are constantly working overtime .</>

           And for all those New Zealanders who are still recovering from significant adverse effects from a "vaccine" that does not prevent infection or transmission and is only effective against 'serious illness, hospitalisation and death' for a short amount of time…if you're lucky and have a shot at least every three months.

           And for a variant of a virus that is mild…https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-omicron-south-african-gp-who-raised-alarm-about-omicron-says-she-was-pressured-not-to-call-it-mild/XJ5H7I6E2LKVM5S655ET5HLIWI/

           The South African GP who first raised the alarm about Omicron says she was pressured by governments "not to publicly state that it was a mild illness".

           Dr Angelique Coetzee told Germany's Die Welt newspaper this week that European governments asked her to portray the new strain as just as serious as previous Covid-19 variants, including Delta.

           "I was told not to publicly state that it was a mild illness," she said. "I have been asked to refrain from making such statements and to say that it is a serious illness. I declined."

           Asked what she meant, Coetzee said "based on the clinical picture there are no indications that we are dealing with a very serious disease".

           [please don’t use bold for big chunks of text, we need that for moderation notes (words or sentences here and there are fine). There are other ways for commenters to add emphasis. Have removed the bold in your comment – weka]
           • Patricia Bremner 2.2.1.1.1.1

             11 February 2022 at 9:24 am

             Perhaps I am wrong to attribute attitudes to protestors and or Wellingtonians. I accept that, but I did not see all those groups you mentioned represented there either. I think I will take advice from WHO about what is or is not serious disease.
             • Rosemary McDonald …

               11 February 2022 at 9:50 am

               I think I will take advice from WHO about what is or is not serious disease.

               When the Omicron variant rose in SA that particular doctor, who had been treating Covid patients for the past near two years, repeatedly stated through any media who would listen that Omicron was NOT a severe disease. Inexorably, MSM, then 'official' health sites promoted Omicron as definitely ' not "not serious" '. More fear….more jabs needed.

               Who to believe? A doctor at the frontline with hands- on experience with Covid patients or a medical bureaucrat/MSM 'expert' WHO has not treated a single Covid patient?

               Take your time…
               • weka …

                 11 February 2022 at 10:25 am

                 What she is quoted as saying in your link,

                 But I have stated many times before it can be a serious illness if you are unvaccinated and have comorbidities but for the majority of people it is a mild illness…

                 Majority in that context is a weasel word.
               • weka …

                 11 February 2022 at 10:33 am

                 Who to believe? A doctor at the frontline with hands- on experience with Covid patients or a medical bureaucrat/MSM 'expert' WHO has not treated a single Covid patient?

                 I can well believe that many of the omicron patients she saw had a less severe course of covid than previous delta patients. Why she, or you, would extrapolate that to the global population I have no idea.

                 But I also am taking note of not some bureaucrat in the WHO but the Director General of the WHO, who has a 35 year background in public health, including with the Ebola outbreaks, and strategies to combat AIDS, tuberculosis, and malaria, and who is being advised by a range of scientists and public health experts with experience in epidemiology, disease spread, and how epidemics and pandemics play out in the real world.
                 • Rosemary McDonald …

                   11 February 2022 at 2:40 pm

                   weka…if you don't understand that the majority of bureaucrats are not only divorced from the realities of front line work but often hold those who are in contempt then I despair.
                   • weka …

                     11 February 2022 at 3:10 pm

                     I didn't say anything about front line work and I don't necessarily disagree with you. I'm saying that a doctor on teh front line has a perspective on her patients that aren't going to be that useful when looking at things globally, and the people who do know what is happening globally are not front line people. I don't for a minute believe that epidemiologists are useless for instance.

                     The issue here is who holds the best knowledge for assessing the public health risk from omicron. I don't think it's that doctor, although she has important perspectives on her patients. And, she obviously says that omicron can cause a lot of damage too, she just didn't see it. We don't know yet why.
               • KJT …

                 11 February 2022 at 10:52 am

                 The one Doctor! you can find on Google who appears to agree with you.

                 That would be funny, if the consequences of misleading people were not so serious.
           • weka 2.2.1.1.1.2

             11 February 2022 at 10:17 am

             mod note. The reason the < > are still there is because I had to go through each line to remove the bold as that's how you'd tagged it in the comment.
           • weka 2.2.1.1.1.3

             11 February 2022 at 10:24 am

             The South African GP who first raised the alarm about Omicron says she was pressured by governments "not to publicly state that it was a mild illness".

             Asked what she meant, Coetzee said "based on the clinical picture there are no indications that we are dealing with a very serious disease".

             She's an idiot who either hasn't bothered to educate herself, or is ignoring the evidence. Omicron is less severe in more people than Delta, but because it infects far more people and does so fast, it causes a large number of deaths, hospitalisations, and possibly long covid.

             Oh look, from your link,

             She told Die Welt, "What I said at one point – because I was just tired of it – was, 'In South Africa this is a mild illness, but in Europe it is a very serious one'. That's what your politicians wanted to hear."

             …

             "They are accusing me of lying, of downplaying Omicron because of how it has been in Europe. In their minds, it is impossible for a disease with more than 38 mutations to be mild. But I have stated many times before it can be a serious illness if you are unvaccinated and have comorbidities but for the majority of people it is a mild illness. I am the one who has seen the patients first-hand but the politicians won't listen."

             My emphasis. Maybe she's being misrepresented, or maybe she really is an idiot. But she is clearly saying that omicron affects many people badly. And the WHO explanation in the article is clear that omicron is not to be classified as mild.

             This is how semantics get weaponised. In this case, playing into the idea that elderly, disabled and people with chronic health conditions are expendable so that society can get back to normal. Has that actually happened anywhere yet, the back to normal thing?
             • Belladonna …

               11 February 2022 at 11:01 am

               elderly, disabled and people with chronic health conditions are expendable so that society can get back to normal. Has that actually happened anywhere yet, the back to normal thing?

               It looks as though many European countries are removing Covid restrictions and mandates – even as infection levels remain high (though dropping from the Omicron peaks). So, return to a pretty 'normal' experience for most people.

               https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/02/04/nation/european-countries-are-easing-covid-19-measures-even-they-continue-report-high-volumes-cases-heres-why/

               WHO Europe, seems to be singing from a different song-sheet than the WHO director general.

               This is borne out (anecdata, I know), by friends in both the US and different European countries, who are cautiously resuming normal life. Yes, they are scarred by the experience. But they're starting to live again, rather than just endure.

               Please, note, this is not a comment or indication of what I think NZ should do right now – but some possibility that there is going to be a return to some form of 'normal' after Omicron.
         • weka 2.2.1.1.2

           11 February 2022 at 10:36 am

           The comment was not a dissing of legitimate protest, just a reflection of the comments from the locals, who also have rights which the police are carefully balancing.

           Sure, but I'm pointing out that if we supported the aims of the protest we would judge that differently. I disagree that locals should take precedent politically. The police will do what they do, but I'm concerned about left wing criticism which appears to imply that because they disagree with the aims of the protest, the protestors should be treated in a particular way.

           This is different from where protestors are being disrespectful, or disorganised. There's a lot to critique there without pushing the idea that some protest is less legitimate because of how it impacts locals.
           • weka 2.2.1.1.2.1

             11 February 2022 at 10:37 am

             I'm basically asking for more nuance, so thanks for clarifying.
     • Anker 2.2.2

       11 February 2022 at 9:15 am

       Don Franks article from Redline is an interesting perspective Weka.

       I am sure you would find it very interesting too Rosemary. It is in the column (links I think) under the comments section
       • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.2.1

         11 February 2022 at 9:56 am

         Thanks Anker…I read that last night… after speaking with a family member just returned from the trip to Welly with the other nutters (oh, how moved to tears this rabble were at the thousands who turned out in the rain in All Small Town NZ to cheer them on!). Returned for an impromptu silent protest with the other hundreds outside the Hamilton Central Police Station yesterday evening. Same in Palmy, Blenheim, Te Awamutu….seems like police brutality goes down like a cup of cold sick with even some of the stanchest pro mandate crowd.

         Interesting times indeed.
         • gsays 2.2.2.1.1

           11 February 2022 at 4:35 pm

           Good to read you again, Rosemary. I have missed your energy lately.

           I found the shot of the veteran saluting the convoy in his military garb a touching and telling image.
           • Rosemary McDonald 2.2.2.1.1.1

             11 February 2022 at 5:57 pm

             Yep…what a trouper! There was a kaumatua speaking to the rabble at The Wellington Freedom Camp yesterday who has 7 kids and 32 grandchildren. He wants to keep his mokos safe and realizes they are at more risk from the Pfizer shot than from Te Virus. The Swedes know this.

             It is the near manic drive to vaccinate the little ones that has triggered this activism…the final straw. That…and the ridiculous demands that schoolkids wear masks. All the teachers are "vaccinated" ffs, unless of course TPTB don't think the Pfizer product works…

             I've really been too busy trying to deal with the heat and humidity here in the Far Far North to miss not posting on TS…although I have been perusing periodically. Apart from some (mentioning no names but…) the place has become an echo chamber of the frightened. One day some of them will step outside of the mainstream and have a gander what is happening in the rest of the world. They're moving on.

             And they certainly care not a damn that a significant number of their compatriots are putting down roots in the margins they have been driven to.
             • gsays …

               11 February 2022 at 6:16 pm

               Hey, well said.

               I have been blown away (emotive euphamisms are par for the course) by the amount of attention focused on the rabble. Especially by those that appear disproportionately discombobulated.

               Your last two sentences are spot on too.
3. Johnr 3

   10 February 2022 at 7:46 pm

   Bloody hell, in spite of all the grief in the world you have to give a good belly laugh for kiwi humour.

   It seems a kiwi radio station put out a call for people to tell the biggest lie that they believed.

   Woman rings up and says." When I got married I found my husband was an atrocious snorer. His excuse. When I lay on my back my scrotum slides down through my legs and covers my arsehole. This creates an airlock so it all comes out the other end".

   Seems it took 3 years before the myth exploded
4. pat 4

   10 February 2022 at 9:11 pm

   How does society deal with aberrations?
   • weka 4.1

     10 February 2022 at 11:16 pm

     depends on the aberration. It hasn't done much about neoliberalism.
     • pat 4.1.1

       10 February 2022 at 11:44 pm

       Neoliberalism is not an aberration..it is the norm in the OECD.
       • weka 4.1.1.1

         10 February 2022 at 11:50 pm

         it's an aberration in the history of human societies
5. Adrian 5

   10 February 2022 at 11:42 pm

   johnr, that’s gold!
6. pat 6

   11 February 2022 at 9:57 am

   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic

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