Deep hypocrisy vs government for sale

Written By: - Date published: 9:39 am, June 14th, 2013 - 214 comments
Categories: accountability, labour, national - Tags: ,

I think the Labour MPs who went to the SkyCity box for the rugby were stupid to do so. They have various excuses, including using the opportunity to express opposition:

Mr Faafoi said he often met with businesses and organisations he did not support and said he had made the party’s opposition to the Government’s deal with SkyCity clear.

“We told them Labour would repeal any special privileges to be exempt from gambling laws that applied to everyone else,” Mr Faafoi said.

But none the less it has handed Key his “deep hypocrisy” line, and the spinsters are gleefully running it.

It’s a pretty sad state of affairs. National have sold out NZ law, run a rigged process to favour Sky City, and signed off on arrangements that will increase the social damage caused by problem gambling. There in the corporate box the Nat MPs were no doubt lined up deep at the trough of corporate largesse, wallowing further in a relationship which is already far too cozy. But this “government for sale” is just fine, doesn’t raise a media eyebrow.

While it was stupid of Labour MPs to muddy the waters, the real scandal goes unremarked.

214 comments on “Deep hypocrisy vs government for sale ”

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  1. Lanthanide 1
    14 June 2013 at 9:42 am

    Yip. Key even used a ridiculous line “at least with us, everyone knows that we’ve done a deal with SkyCity”. The media should have pulled him up on it – just because you’ve made it public, it doesn’t mean what you’re doing is in anyway acceptable, in fact it’s galling that you’d even suggest that.

    • Tom Gould 1.1
      14 June 2013 at 10:32 am

      “The media should have pulled him up on it”? On what? Lying about the connections, the meetings, the secrecy, the costs? That’s not news, FFS. Four Labour MPs doing what Tory MPs do every day, now that’s news!

      • Tom Gould 1.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 4:44 pm

        Gower tweets that Shearer is “pouring hypocrisy on hypocrisy” because he went to the Sky box at the Rugby World Cup in 2011. It gets worse. Word has it Shearer once looked up admiringly at the Sky Tower once back in 2009. And he once drove past the Casino twice in one day. Bloody hypocrite.

  2. fatty 2
    14 June 2013 at 9:58 am

    Labour have just made the pokie bribe scandal a non-issue next year. That was going to be one of Shearer’s weapons. In fact, you can now forget trying to frame Key as the sleazeball he is. And forget about trying to frame Shearer as the clean non-politician…what is Labour’s strategy now? Wait for 2017?
    The ramifications of this is massive and will haunt Labour until after the next election.
    What does a one way flight cost? (I don’t care where)

    • BLiP 2.1
      14 June 2013 at 2:23 pm

      Labour have just made the pokie bribe scandal a non-issue next year . . .

      How you work that one out? While its certainly not a good look just at the moment, I remain to be convinced that Labour has lost the highground on this issue. John Key has made a twat of himself. In effect, he is saying that by accepting corporate hospitality a politician is somehow obliged to support what ever that corporation is up to. This is more indicative of his own shallow, mendacious, and venal approach to politics than it is a statement of fact. Once that is pointed out, Labour need only remind the public that in the lead up to the sleazy deal, John Key told the following lies:

      – the Sky City deal will provide 900 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs

      – the Sky City deal doesn’t mean more pokies

      – there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal

      – my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal

      – SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins

      – any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process

      – Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land

      – I did not mislead the House (8)

      – the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal

      There’s no need to “frame” John Key as a sleazeball when his own words confirm it.

      • felix 2.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 3:07 pm

        “In effect, he is saying that by accepting corporate hospitality a politician is somehow obliged to support what ever that corporation is up to.”

        Yep, and and that should have been the first thing out of every Labour MP’s mouth as soon as this issue was raised.

        Instead, so far everyone including Shearer and Labour have mutely accepted Key’s framing.

      • Rob 2.1.2
        14 June 2013 at 3:08 pm

        So whats your issue with 900 construction jobs. Do you think these things get built by hui’s and interpretive dance group?

        • BLiP 2.1.2.1
          14 June 2013 at 3:29 pm

          ‘

          I would love there to be 900 construction jobs. John Key actually said there was going to be 1,000 construction jobs. Thing is, its another John Key lie.

          . . . He also questioned the construction job figures, saying: “I’m not quite sure what the source of that 1000 was.”

          The original Horwath report said 150 jobs could be created over a five-year construction period for a total of 750 . . .

          John Key’s lies about numbers don’t surprise me, though. He did, after all, manufacture his $50 million right out of thin air and without producing even a single widget. His deliberate and mendacious use of figures has now become a feature of National Ltd™ as his ashpurashunal colleagues get with the programme. Nick Smith caught on quick with conjuring up the rationale for the privatisation-by-stealth of ACC and its been pretty much ongoing since then. Just this week we’ve had dodgy figures being presented by National Ltd™ on manufacturing, national standards, and youth unemployment data. Don’t suppose you noticed, though.

          • Rob 2.1.2.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 4:17 pm

            Well you are correct I have not noticed the rest of your comments , however what I have noticed is that you have no real idea of what it takes to build anything. At this stage of any project (being well before drafting details are completed or determining base build requirements) a 10% variation in construction jobs (if that is what you are complaining about) is normal. One thing about a project of this size is that it will employ a lot of people to build it and to me that is a good thing.

            The great outcome for Labour is that it will enable Sky City to keep picking up the refreshements tab for its MP’s that trough their hospitality.

            • BLiP 2.1.2.1.1.1
              14 June 2013 at 4:58 pm

              . . . (if that is what you are complaining about) . . .

              Along with the John Key led National Ltd™ government’s non-stop fiddling the figures, you seem also to have not noticed that I am not complaining about anything. I know facts are difficult things for those not used to dealing with them when it comes to politics but, really, speaking truth is not actually “complaining”. Its helping.

              Speaking of people troughing it, John Key was shouted out to a posh restaurant when he left one job before spending a month on paid holiday while waiting until he could start his new job. But, guess what? John Key lied about his free meal . . .

              – I paid for that lunch and I’ve got the credit card bill to prove it

              As it happens, the great outcome for Labour is that its a reminder that John Key has proven himself to be an inveterate liar, particularly concerning matters with which he is directly involved. Another great outcome for Labour from this media beat up that its MPs can demonstrate their committment to wider principles while also being able to maintain a working relationship with those who’s ambitions may be denied for the greater good of New Zealand. Yet another wonderful bonus is that this situation provides a opportunity to remind the public the Sky City conference centre deal is John Key’s baby. As the project moves forward, it will become increasingly obvious that it was promoted by John Key telling lie after lie after lie and ultimately, as The Domion Post pointed out, John Key himself . . .

              . . . passing the bill to those who can least afford to pay it – the habitual gamblers on whom casinos rely for most of their revenue. SkyCity’s profits do not come from passers-by who spontaneously pop into the casino on the way to dinner or a show to empty their pockets of loose change. They come from a much smaller subset of its clientele who, night after night, can be found perched on the same stools pouring money they and their families can ill afford to do without into slot machines . . .

              . . . for Sir John Key so loved the underclass that his contribution to New Zealand society was to ensure that the underclass multiplied. Now, *that’s* hypocrisy.

      • fatty 2.1.3
        14 June 2013 at 3:47 pm

        BLiP

        I agree with every point you make, you are spot on, Key is a sleaze.
        The problem is there is a difference between actions and perception. Ideally, perception is a direct result of actions, but if we look back at Key’s time as leader, this has not happened.
        You, me, everyone on here, and even whaleoil, know that Key has been deceitful, and a liar for the past 5 years…but the voters love him.

        I remain to be convinced that Labour has lost the highground on this issue

        That is irrelevant.
        Labour have held the high ground over National since Key became PM. The only thing that matters is how the voters perceive the candidates and parties.
        Come the pre-election debates, Shearer might have a go at the pokies-bribe, but the response will be “you sat in the corporate box of Sky City and ate their sausage rolls…and Labour MP’s drank their champagne”.
        If we take off our critical thinking hat, and put on our Waitakere Man hat, how do we read that? How is that going to be presented in the 6pm news by the mediaworks gang? How does the voter, who has no interest in political details, understand it?
        Mumble face will have no comeback to Key’s nasty one-liners.

        Once that is pointed out, Labour need only remind the public that in the lead up to the sleazy deal, John Key told the following lies

        Have you been following NZ politics over the past 5 years?

        • marty mars 2.1.3.1
          14 June 2013 at 4:24 pm

          Middle nz know that key lies and they don’t care. He puts on his sleezoid face shrugs his shoulders and moves on. The only way to get him imo is to get him to reveal the nasty side and that can happen by hammering the lies for sure because he is vain and up himself – but the lies are the journey not the destination.

          • Rob 2.1.3.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 8:26 pm

            Yep we all got pretty use to lying politicians after Peters, Clark, Field et al showed us the way.

            • Pasupial 2.1.3.1.1.1
              15 June 2013 at 6:46 am

              @ Rob

              You seriously contend that no politician has ever lied in Aotearoa before Peters et al.? New Zealand is built on lies – starting with a Treaty that was never meant to be honoured.

              What gets to me is how for NAct, there is no real downside to lying; either they get away with it thanks to the vapidness of our MSM, or; they are caught, shrug their shoulders, and further reduce the credibility of all politicians. Sure; one MP may take a fall (or lose some of their perks briefly), but the public’s expectations are lowered that little bit more, which gives the next deception an easier course.

        • BLiP 2.1.3.2
          14 June 2013 at 5:48 pm

          ‘

          I get what you’re saying – out there in punterland “perception is reality” and the MSM seem intent on working through some sort of collective daddy issues they have projected onto John Key.

          Yet, as naive as I may seem, I haven’t quite given up on New Zealand voters and Labour’s ability to get its shit together to begin communicating effectively. The alternative is just too depressing for me to dwell on. There seems already to be an air of dejection about just how hopeless the Labour MPs are proving to be and I am resisting the temptation to become cynical about their personal motives. I think there is more than enough cynicism to go around and I believe that mood among the poplace is being manufactured by those who would rather leave our hopes and dreams up to some sort of contrived beneficence of “the market”. I’m probably being pollyannaish, but losing interest and hunkering down in my own little bunker to wait for what is being portrayed as the inevitable seems a broken-arse and acquiescent response.

          The SkyCity deal is one of several issues that needs sorting. And it can be sorted. The facts speak for themselves and its incumbent on our MPs and the parties of the Left to communicate them directly. The difficulty, as I see it, is that the Left runs the risk of always seeming to be negative, almost always appearing in the MSM pointing out the glaring faults. Its time for a different strategy. Rather than just seeming to carp from the sidelines, the Left needs to engage more positively. Its probably still just a bit too soon to start envisioning what life would be like for New Zealand under the Left government, but there’s no reason why our representatives can’t adopt, say, mockery and humour to soften the news. Expose National Ltd™ for the morbid joke that it is.

          I dunno, I’m a supply chain boffin, I don’t know about communications and media and PR and spin but I do know that its time Labour did something to get its message through. Somehow. Maybe bypass the MSM altogether. Sack all the press secretaries and hire a bunch of tech savy texters and bloggers and tweeters and Facebook types and reach out. Alternatively, since the MSM has reduced its Fourth Estate duties to that of entertainers, give them what they want. Like I said, I dunno, colour me naive, but I’ll be fucked if I’m gonna give up just yet.

    • Ad 2.2
      14 June 2013 at 2:44 pm

      +1
      King shearer cosgrove goff are just complete fucking numpties. Again.

      Fire them all.

    • Paul 2.3
      14 June 2013 at 8:09 pm

      You’d think it was almost deliberate ……….

  3. Anne 3
    14 June 2013 at 10:03 am

    They earn enough to purchase themselves decent seats at the game, so how much more astute it would have been if they had sat with the general public.

    • Colonial Viper 3.1
      14 June 2013 at 12:48 pm

      Far better to be amongst Caesars guests overlooking the masses at the games

    • Rob 3.2
      14 June 2013 at 3:10 pm

      Probably becasue they have lost (or never had) the skills to converse with normal non politically employed New Zealanders at a sporting event.

  4. ianmac 4
    14 June 2013 at 10:04 am

    It could be said that the National MPs who used the Sky facilities at Eden Park were getting the benefits of their cosy deal. That could be called ummm – corruption.

  5. karol 5
    14 June 2013 at 10:08 am

    No time for complacency.

    If those Labour MPs didn’t understand in advance how their corporate box actions would undermine their opposition to this government, they really haven’t been that committed, and the really don’t understand the issues or the stakes.

    They should stand back and leave it to MPs who do get the urgency and depth of commitment needed.

    • Mary 5.1
      14 June 2013 at 10:44 am

      Just one more example of why Shearer’s not up to the job, but more importantly how Shearer will never be up to the job. Shearer’s at the same time too nice a guy, and too stupid strategically to lead Labour. In Shearer’s case both of these things I think come from the same place, but this doesn’t change the fact that it will never, ever, be good news for Labour, or for New Zealand, for as long as Shearer is Labour’s leader.

      • Anne 5.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 11:02 am

        To be fair Mary he apparently wasn’t in the box with them. He merely popped in briefly to see them. For all we know he may have been letting them know it wasn’t a smart thing to do. Whatever… Goff, King and Cosgrove have been around a long time. They must have known how it would look but I guess their sense of entitlement overcame any misgivings.

        • tracey 5.1.1.1
          14 June 2013 at 11:49 am

          popped in for ten minutes… doesnt he see enough of them in Wellington???

        • Mary 5.1.1.2
          14 June 2013 at 11:52 am

          If the clip of him on the TV news last night was at the said rugby game then it didn’t look like he’d just popped in. He had a glass in his hand and was chatting quite freely.

          Regardless of this, though, I think that the “go easy on Shearer” approach is ultimately the wrong one, not because Shearer deserves to be criticised: unlike many of his political opponents his intentions are admirable and I’m sure he’s a good person. However, the logical extension of not questioning Shearer’s suitability for the job of Leader of the Opposition is that he is the person for the job when clearly he isn’t and the longer we keep kidding ourselves that he is the longer New Zealand will be worse off.

          • Anne 5.1.1.2.1
            14 June 2013 at 12:18 pm

            If the clip of him on the TV news last night was at the said rugby game then it didn’t look like he’d just popped in. He had a glass in his hand and was chatting quite freely.

            Well naturally he’s not going to ‘tear strips off them’ in front of a TV camera. That would have happened behind closed doors. So, he’s not allowed to go purchase a glass of wine during half time – or whenever it was – and at least drop by briefly (and apparently it was briefly) to see them?

            It’s not a “go easy on Shearer” thing Mary. And don’t accuse me of not questioning Shearer’s suitability. Some of my local colleagues in the Labour Party (and a few people here too) can attest to that…

            • Chris 5.1.1.2.1.1
              14 June 2013 at 1:20 pm

              Don’t know much about the corporate box environment having never been personally, but I would seriously doubt you can carry wine glasses outside of corporate boxes (i.e. if he had a wine glass it would have come from within the box).

              That said I don’t get really get the big deal about this all – looks pretty bad but thats about it. Was stupid and politically shouldn’t have happened but is not a major.

              • Mary …
                14 June 2013 at 1:45 pm

                I agree, but it is yet one more example of why Shearer’s too much of a light-weight in the strategy department to be Leader of the Opposition.

            • Mary 5.1.1.2.1.2
              14 June 2013 at 1:42 pm

              “To be fair Mary he apparently wasn’t in the box with them. He merely popped in briefly to see them. For all we know he may have been letting them know it wasn’t a smart thing to do.”

              and

              “Well naturally he’s not going to ‘tear strips off them’ in front of a TV camera.”

              So instead what Shearer does is go there himself to tell his MPs that they themselves shouldn’t be there and, according to you, while he’s there doing this it’s okay “to go purchase a glass of wine during half time – or whenever it was – and at least drop by briefly (and apparently it was briefly) to see them?”

              I’m afraid, Anne, what you’re saying just doesn’t stack up. If this were the case why didn’t Shearer just ring them to voice his concern, instead of doing precisely the same thing that he “apparently” went there to tell his MPs that they should not be doing?

              And as for “accusing” you of going easy on Shearer, your comments were the last thing on my mind when I wrote about how I think Shearer’s the wrong man for the job. I was accusing you of nothing.

              Ironically though, your defence of why Shearer was “apparently” at the Sky City corporate box is an example of how we need to be questioning more his suitability as leader. If the reasons you suggested were in fact the reasons why he did go there, then this shows further why he should’ve known not to go, and places his judgement further into question, and at the same time his suitability as leader.

              • Colonial Viper …
                14 June 2013 at 4:38 pm

                These matters are made clear in the Radio Live interview with Shearer.

                Shearer had been invited by SkyCity to attend, but chose to go with the NZ Rugby Union invitation instead. (I trust that Shearer did not have to buy his own wine, given that).

                Shearer’s staff had helped organise his “popping in” to the SkyCity box, where he was shocked and surprised to find a number of his senior MPs already there.

                Bad staff work, basically.

                • Mary …
                  14 June 2013 at 6:44 pm

                  I’ve got no reason to dispute that, but why did he even need to “pop in” if he didn’t know some of his MPs were there? Why didn’t he himself not have the nous to tell his staffers that his visit they’d organised wasn’t right?

                  In the scheme of things it’s minor, I know. But it just seems that all Shearer ever does amounts to a series of non-hanging offences. I think we need better if New Zealand’s going to be saved.

                  • marty mars …
                    14 June 2013 at 7:15 pm

                    shearer ‘popped in’ because there was someone he wanted to talk to and he knew that person was in the corporate box and he says he did chat to them for 10 minutes but won’t say who it was in that interview because the person would be ’embarrassed’.

                    I cannot remember shearer mentioning his staff in that interview.

        • Muttonbird 5.1.1.3
          15 June 2013 at 11:42 pm

          I’ll take Kris Faafoi’s line. That they were engaging with the Sky city gambling types. After all, one must know one’s enemy.

      • Bearded Git 5.1.2
        14 June 2013 at 1:17 pm

        I haven’t been a Shearer fan at all but having listened to him on Radio Live, IMHO he did pretty well in this interview.

        • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1
          14 June 2013 at 1:25 pm

          After having listened to the whole thing, I have to agree with you. He was in an unwinnable position, and although there were some things he could have done better, on the whole it was a good effort.

          • Winston Smith 5.1.2.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 2:23 pm

            Have you noticed that when hes in an unwinnable position its usually of his own making…

            • Colonial Viper 5.1.2.1.1.1
              14 June 2013 at 3:27 pm

              He popped into the SkyCity Corporate Box, and was startled to find some of his most senior MPs present. That’s a tonne of bad staff work, right there.

              • gobsmacked …
                14 June 2013 at 3:41 pm

                “Any plans for the weekend, Phil?”

                “Yeah Dave, gonna see the ABs”

                “Oh, me too. Let’s meet up. Where are you sitting?”

                “Er … you don’t want to know. Trust me.”

                “Oh, is this like that John Key thing where I don’t ask any questions, in case I get answers? Cool, I feel Prime Ministerial already!”

    • phillip ure 5.2
      14 June 2013 at 11:47 am

      i was a bit more harsh..

      http://whoar.co.nz/2013/the-rightwing-of-labour-snuggles-up-to-sky-city-casino/

      (excerpt..)

      “..and of course not all labour mp’s were invited..just that rightwing cabal..dragging their stained/tattered neo-lib/rand-ite cloaks/histories behind them..(presented at the door as their credentials..)..”

      (i then go on a bit..)

      phillip ure..

    • Chrissy 5.3
      14 June 2013 at 4:30 pm

      I agree with karol.It was an appalling lapse of judgement.I have been keeping an open mind on David Shearer but am very disappointed with him and all of the Labour members, and feel he should have strongly advised them not to use the Sky City corporate box.And he should have stayed well away himself. It’s a little bit like a betrayal. I was amazed at the media reaction to what key calls “deep hypocrisy”I don’t know how many times I heard it repeated over the last few days.When I think off “deep hypocrisy” I think of key taking that little girl up to Waitangi with the empty promise of a better life for her and her family and all underpriviliged people.Knowing all the while he had absolutely no intentions in that direction.Labour needs to buckle down and do the work we need them to do.This country is imploding.

    • Saarbo 5.4
      14 June 2013 at 5:42 pm

      +1, yep. Its disappointing from the point of view that these MP’s dont have the judgement and foresight to understand the damage that something like this does to Labour and the Left.

      I personally couldnt believe that they had attended the Box. Very disappointing and very poor judgement. Its going to be BLOODY tough for the Left to win in 2014 with calls like this.

    • AmaKiwi 5.5
      14 June 2013 at 7:54 pm

      We only have one major party, the Business Party. It has two branches: Business National and Business Labour.

    • Paul 5.6
      14 June 2013 at 8:07 pm

      There are thousands of vulnerable, underpaid, unemployed, homeless New Zealanders who need a Labour Party that cares more about them than drinks with the corporates watching rugby.

      • farmboy 5.6.1
        14 June 2013 at 8:24 pm

        Haha yea it worked out for them last time labour was in power didnt it.Zero unemployment zero homeless wasnt it.

        • Paul 5.6.1.1
          14 June 2013 at 8:39 pm

          My point exactly.
          The Labour Party needs to return to its roots.

          • Rob 5.6.1.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 9:17 pm

            Yep Paul , they do, and it is unfortunate that they will vote for these guys and be severely let down .

        • Pasupial 5.6.1.2
          15 June 2013 at 7:38 am

          @ Farmboy

          Point to one time in the history of New Zealand when there has been zero unemployment. Zero income for the; indigent, elderly, unemployed and dispossessed, certainly; but not zero unemployment.

          Homelessness is a growing problem in Aotearoa, Bomber himself is doing a charity sleep in a box event to raise awareness, and hopefully; money, for this social problem – I guess that hasn’t worked with you. As for unemployment; didn’t that double in Key’s first year as PM? And it has stayed flat or trended up ever since.

  6. handle 6
    14 June 2013 at 10:09 am

    The reason the media are not reporting the deal any more is because Labour have handed them a simpler story. Again. That’s the ‘sad state of affairs’.

    • Jane 6.1
      14 June 2013 at 3:45 pm

      What you say is key, why would TV3 and One fill up the lead news item with something serious but slightly boring when you get several days of political scandal handed to you on a plate by Labours bumbling… Again.

  7. Socialist Paddy 7
    14 June 2013 at 10:10 am

    So I guess we take solace in the fact that four Labour MPs are dickheads rather than corrupt.

    • Rob 7.1
      14 June 2013 at 8:50 pm

      Dickheads yep that’s proven , but the population is still out on the corrupt issue

  8. tsmithfield 8
    14 June 2013 at 10:11 am

    To be consistent, Labour should return any donation they receive from Sky City.

  9. fender 9
    14 June 2013 at 10:26 am

    Until Labour do a U-turn and vote in support of the convention centre in return for their rugby tickets I fail to see the “deep hypocrisy” kicking in. These MP’s would have been better to graciously decline the invitation but I think they have at least shown that they don’t and won’t give preferential treatment to those bearing gifts. It needs to be remembered that Labour has a problem with the process undertaken by National on the deal for a convention centre, not a problem with SkyCity. It’s actually quite mature and up-front to show Skycity that there are no hard feelings towards them just because the govt of the day are giving them special treatment.

    • felix 9.1
      14 June 2013 at 1:51 pm

      Exactly fender, the Nats and their spinners are peddling absolute nonsense on this.

      The scandalous party is the one taking gifts and favouring the giver. These fuckwits are saying it would be ok for Labour to take the gifts as along as they vote in accordance with Sky City’s wishes like the Nats did.

      It disturbs me greatly to see so many lefties accepting this bullshit framing.

      • Colonial Viper 9.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 3:29 pm

        I suppose if you can’t take their money, drink their booze, then vote against them, you’re not doing your job as a politician.

        • Rob 9.1.1.1
          14 June 2013 at 8:34 pm

          Yep exactly , I mean just because your constituents that you really care about and want to protect from the evilness of Sky City, have to buy their own drinks and pay for their own taxi’s , does not mean that any well regarded Labour MP has to the same does it ? I mean they are all so spectacularly intelligent and Helen Clarke was their leader and everything , so no they are above all that. End of.

  10. Ted 10
    14 June 2013 at 10:30 am

    Shearer made a huge mistake on Radio Live today. Instead of saying he thought of throwing his phone at the wall, and saying he had given his MPs a telling off, he should have taken a different approach.
    I would have advised him to say something along the lines of…
    ‘Sky City is a private company and is only doing what is best for its shareholders in its negotiations with National. National has been beaten by Sky City, and we do not hold that against Sky City, we are in open dialogue with sky city because it will need to work with us after the election.
    Our beef is with National, not – sky city.
    Therefore, we are at liberty, in representing our voters, to keep channels of communication open with everyone, blah, blah, blah.’

    My 2C.

    Shearer needs a new PR advisor.

      • handle 10.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 10:53 am

        Does not really matter what he is saying, it is several days too late. Again.

      • fatty 10.1.2
        14 June 2013 at 11:38 am

        He uses the word hindsight a lot. He’ll be using that word a lot following the next election too.
        He also said Goff, King and Cosgrove are his best performers. Perhaps tomorrow he will admit that in hindsight that was a stupid thing to say

        Any chance of a Labour leader with foresight?

        • Miranda 10.1.2.1
          14 June 2013 at 12:47 pm

          +1

          “In hindsight those MP’s would have re-thought that”

          He does not have an expecation that they should have forseen that it was stupid to takes Sky’s
          hospitality.

          “I deal with this behind the scenes, not on public radio”

          Spare me…Shearer created a false situation for a very public attack on Cunliffe at the November conference.

          What a rudderless man.

          • AmaKiwi 10.1.2.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 7:57 pm

            I am waiting for Judith Collins to take Key’s place. What she will do to Shearer will bring a new meaning to “Crusher Collins.”

      • just saying 10.1.3
        14 June 2013 at 12:04 pm

        If I had the energy, I’d write something detailed about Shearer’s authoritarian, masculinist, indvidualist, and utterly neoliberalist language throughout the interview.
        But listening to Shearer for that long makes me lose the will to live, let alone think and write.

      • gobsmacked 10.1.4
        14 June 2013 at 1:41 pm

        In that Radio Live interview Shearer says he didn’t know any of the MPs were going to be there.

        So Phil Goff, his mentor and shoelace-tier, his neigbouring electorate MP, the leader who gave him his parachutes into Mt Albert and then the leadership, didn’t mention to Shearer (and vice-versa) anything about going to see the All Blacks. And they just happened to bump into each other in the corporate box. Hmmm … Tui time.

        That interview is a ten minute National party orgasm.

      • marty mars 10.1.5
        14 June 2013 at 1:50 pm

        “if I had 34 MP’s working as hard as they do I would be very very pleased” Oh dear come on you slack-arsed 31 labour MP’s that aren’t goff, cosgrove and king lol.

        “I don’t want to say because it’s embarrassing for that person” hmm wonder who it was that he knew was in the box and who he spent 10 minutes talking to but who he thinks would be embarrassed about that.

        • Socialist Paddy 10.1.5.1
          14 June 2013 at 7:30 pm

          If he had 34 MPs working like them the Labour Party would be no more.

        • Pasupial 10.1.5.2
          15 June 2013 at 7:47 am

          @ Marty Mars

          Is there footage anywhere of Shearer’s 10 minute visit? I guess they don’t allow cameras near the Sky City box. Goff & co aren’t going to say, so I we’ll probably never know who that was. If indeed there was a person.

          But really; wouldn’t anyone be embarrassed to be seen in public with Shearer?

    • tracey 10.2
      14 June 2013 at 11:37 am

      +1

    • Boadicea 10.3
      14 June 2013 at 12:20 pm

      “Shearer needs a new PR advisor.”

      You cannot polish a turd.

    • felix 10.4
      14 June 2013 at 1:57 pm

      Ted +1

      Also, Shearer has a PR advisor?

      • Colonial Viper 10.4.1
        14 June 2013 at 3:31 pm

        I thought the phone against the wall thing was a very real, red blooded comment. Just a tad more cool conviction and it would have sounded perfect.

        • the pigman 10.4.1.1
          14 June 2013 at 7:32 pm

          Just going to assume that was a joke. Team Shearer’s feeble attempts to secure Waitakere Man’s vote could not get any more blatant.

          Unless, maybe, he approached Tamihere to run in Manukau East in 2014 (because Waitakere Man isn’t just found in West Auckland, after all)…

          “Red-blooded” displays of chest-beating are surely something his PR people should be advising him against…

        • marty mars 10.4.1.2
          14 June 2013 at 8:16 pm

          imo the phone against the wall thing was completely contrived and utter bullshit.

  11. George D 11
    14 June 2013 at 10:41 am

    There’s a reasonable correlation between Labour MPs who like rugby and those who appear to be ineffective, reactionary, and trouble-prone.

    • ak 11.1
      14 June 2013 at 11:23 am

      Exaccamundo George; the real crime was in attending the elitist apartheid game at all.

  12. unpcnzcougar 12
    14 June 2013 at 10:51 am

    What were they thinking? Really? All this has done is give National and the media the right to change the conversation and not in a good way.

  13. just saying 13
    14 June 2013 at 11:33 am

    On the latest ‘Citizen A’ Chris Trotter made the point in regard to another matter – The Labour Caucus repeatedly fuck up by assuming they will be held to the same standards as the National MPs – whose hypocrisy, greed, lying, corruption etc. are mostly minimised or ignored. But the elites and their favourite parliamentary representatives will never be held to the same standards as Labour members.

    I can only imagine that in moving to the right and their own corporate toadying, the Labour leadership imagines that the fourth estate will grant them that same degree of immunity, but it’s not going to happen while they even purport to represent the poorest 75 percent.

    And there are a few groups who’d be glad to meet with Labour ministers to discuss relevant policy. Beneficiary groups are anxious to know what Labour proposes to do in regard to social security, and yet you just don’t hear of ministers sharing cosy meals with beneficiaries to explain where Labour stands in regard to their issues.

    Ministers who read TS feel free to prove me wrong re the above.

  14. tracey 14
    14 June 2013 at 11:35 am

    …and shearer popped in for ten minutes. These guys really have no idea. And Cosgrove thought we all owed him a flight up too????

    the Nats must piss themselves laughing @ how easy labour has made it for them to fuck up the country while lining the pockets of those they socialise with.

  15. Santi 15
    14 June 2013 at 11:41 am

    I believe hypocrisy is to attend Sky City functions, drink and eat at their expense, and try to hide it. That’s hypocrisy. Just ask C. Cosgrove and D. Shearer.

    • tracey 15.1
      14 June 2013 at 11:48 am

      I’m not sure they tried to hide it. You mustnt enjoy this government very much with the deniala nd hiding they do and keep being found out on…

      It’s not two wrongs make a right.

      The right seem so smug over thing, but at least the folks at TS can call a piece of shit smelly even if it’s those on their side of the political spectrum.

      Hard to recall this government being called to account by those who support it. I reference BLiPs list of shame as my evience.

    • tracey 15.2
      14 June 2013 at 11:53 am

      Hat tip to BLiP

      Perhaps you could help me with a point in relation to your observation that . . .

      . . . As a general point most politicians make mistakes, they don’t lie. When they do they loose their job . . .

      . . . which of the following John Key statements could reasonably be described as mistakes as opposed to outright lies:

      – I promise to always be honest

      – We’re not proposing to change the Employment Relations Act in a way that weakens unions

      – we are not going to sack public servants, the attrition rate will reduce costs

      – there’s no way one in five New Zealanders will lose their jobs

      – we are not going to cut working for families

      – I firmly believe in climate change and always have

      – We seek a 50% reduction in New Zealand’s carbon-equivalent net emissions, as compared to 1990 levels, by 2050. 50 by 50. We will write the target into law.

      – National Ltd™ will provide a consistent incentive for both biofuel and biodiesel by exempting them from excise tax or road user charges

      – I didn’t know about The Bretheren election tactics

      – If they came to us now with that proposal [re trans-Tasman Therapeutic Goods regime], we will sign it

      – I can’t remember my position on the 1981 Springbok Tour

      – Tranzrail shares

      – I did not mislead the House (1)

      – Lord Ashcroft

      – National Ltd™ would not have sent troops into Iraq

      – Standard & Poors credit downgrade

      – the double-down grade doesn’t really matter and its only about private sector debt

      – I did not mislead the House (2)

      – I didn’t say I want wages to drop

      – I can’t remember why I voted against increasing the minimum wage

      – the real rate of inflation is 3.3 percent.

      – the tourism sector has not lost 7,000 jobs

      – no I have never heard of Whitechapel

      – I won’t raise GST

      – people who are on the average wage and have a child are $48 a week better off after the rise in GST

      – the purchase of farmland, by overseas buyers will be limited to ten farms per purchase

      – the Pike River Mine was consented to under a Labour Government

      – no promises were made to get the remains of the miners out of the Pike River mine

      – I did not provide a view on the safety of the Pike River coalmine

      – I did not mislead the House (3)

      – capping, not cutting the public service

      – raising the minimum wage to $15 per hour will cost 6000 jobs

      – north of $50 a week

      – privatisation won’t significantly help the economy

      – wave goodbye to higher taxes, not your loved ones

      – I never offered Brash a diplomatic job in London

      – Tariana Turia is “totally fine” with the Tuhoe Treaty Claim deal

      – Kiwisaver

      – National Ltd™ is not going to radically reorganise the structure of the public sector

      – tax cuts won’t require additional borrowing

      – New Zealand does not have a debt problem

      – New Zealand troops in Afghanistan will only be involved in training, not fighting

      – the wage gap between New Zealand and Australia has closed under my National Ltd™ government

      – It took 9 years for Labour to make a complete and utter mess of the economy

      – National Ltd™ has changed the Overseas Investment Act to include 19 different criteria

      – the price of goods and services has risen by 6 percent since the last election, while the after-tax average wage has actually gone up by 16 percent

      – no, although its a week ago and here I am being interviewed on television about them, I havn’t seen Gerry Brownlee’s comments regarding demolitions in Christchurch and which caused such outrage, but I can talk all about them

      – our SAS soldiers were not involved in the Kabul Hotel gunfight

      – the use of the Vela brother’s helicopter was required so I could attend meetings relating to national/international security concerns

      – the DPS makes the decision about accompanying the Prime Minister or not, I had no choice but to take them on holiday to Hawaii

      – I did not mislead the House (4)

      – oh, maybe our SAS soldiers were in the Kabul hotel gun fight but they weren’t wounded by friendly fire

      – New Zealand has lost $12 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . oh, it might actually be around $15 billion from GDP due to the Christchurch earthquake . . . Blinglish said what?

      – 10,000 houses will have to be demolished in Christchurch due to the earthquake

      – 14,000 new apprentices will start training over the next five years, over and above the number previously forecast

      – Our amendments to the ETS ensure we will continue to do our fair share internationally

      – we are committed to honouring our Kyoto Protocol obligations

      – any changes to the ETS will be fiscally neutral

      – New Zealand has grown for eight of the last nine quarters”

      – National Ltd™ will tender out the government banking contract

      – we will be back in surplus by 2014-15

      – Nicky Hager’s book “Other People’s Wars” is a work of fiction

      – unemployment is starting to fall

      – we have created 60,000 jobs

      – we have created 45,000 jobs

      – the 2011 Budget will create in the order of 170,000 jobs

      – I don’t know if I own a vineyard

      – no, I did not mislead the House (5)

      – the Isreali spy killed in the Christchurch quake had “only one” passport

      – the Police will not need to make savings by losing jobs

      – first I heard I heard about Kim Dotcom was on 19 January 2012

      – first I heard about the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was in September

      – I did not mislead the House (6)

      – I voted to keep the drinking age at 20

      – New Zealand is 100% Pure

      – I’ve been prime minister for four years, and it’s really 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year

      – baseball in New Zealand is attracting more government support

      – the decision to buy brand new BMWs was made by the Department of Internal Affairs without reference either to their minister or to me

      – I didn’t have a clue that Ministerial Services, which I am in charge of, was going to buy brand new BMWs

      – even though two of my ministers knew all about it, I didn’t have a clue that brand new BMWs were being bought.

      – even though my Chief of Staff met with officials to discuss purchase of the the brand new BMWs, I didn’t have a clue

      – even though I personally signed papers discussing the matter, I still didn’t have a clue

      – Labour forced us into buying the brand new BMWs, its their fault

      – ummm, look, sorry about that BMW thing , it was because I was so upset about the death of a New Zealand soldier, and Julia Gillard was visiting too

      – the public demanded that we change the labour laws for The Hobbit

      – “The Hobbit” created 3000 new jobs

      – we have delivered 800 extra doctors in the public service

      – I did not mislead the House (7)

      – I wasn’t working at Elders when the sham foreign exchange deals took place

      – I was starting School Certificate exams in 1978

      – I don’t know who arrived on the CIA jet to visit the spies I am responsible for

      – reducing barriers to property developers will increase the availability of affordable housing

      – Labour left the economy in poor shape

      – forecasts show unemployment will fall

      – we have closed the wage gap with Australia by $27

      – Ngati Porou and Whanau Apanui are not opposed to mining

      – I have not had any meetings with Media Works

      – our [NZ’s] terms of trade remain high

      – the TPP is an example of democracy

      – National Ltd™ will use the proceeds of state asset sales to invest in other public assets, like schools and hospitals

      – New Zealand troops will be out of Afghanistan by April 2013

      – overseas investment in New Zealand adds to what New Zealanders can invest on their own

      – overseas investment in New Zealand creates jobs, boosts incomes, and helps the economy grow

      – National Ltd™ will build 2000 houses over the next two years

      – there are only 4 New Zealand SAS soldiers in Bamiyan and all working in the area of logistics and planning only

      – selling state assets will give cash equity to those companies

      – the Sky City deal will provide 900 construction jobs and 800 casino jobs

      – the Sky City deal doesn’t mean more pokies

      – there was nothing improper about the Sky City deal

      – my office has had no correspondence, no discussions, no involvement with the Sky City deal

      – SkyCity will only get “a few more” pokie machines at the margins

      – any changes to gambling regulations will be subject to a full public submission process

      – Sky City has approached TVNZ about the purchase/use of government-owned land

      – I did not mislead the House (8)

      – the Auditor General has fully vindicated National over the Sky City deal

      – there’s a 50/50 chance the Hobbit is going off shore unless we do something

      – David Shearer has signed up for the purchase of shares in Mighty River

      – Solid Energy asked the government for a $1 billion capital investment

      – fracking has been going safely on in Taranaki for the past 30 years without any issues

      – no frontline positions will be lost at DOC

      – Iain Rennie came to me and recommended Fletcher for the GCSB job

      – I told Cabinet that I knew Ian Fletcher

      – I forgot that after I scrapped the shortlist for GCSB job I phoned a life-long friend to tell him to apply for the position

      – I told Iain Rennie I would contact Fletcher

      – for 30 years, or three decades, I didn’t have any dinners or lunches or breakfasts with Ian Fletcher

      – I did not mislead the House (9)

      – No, I did not say we would follow the US and Australia into a war against North Korea

      – I paid for that lunch and I’ve got the credit card bill to prove it

      – I called directory service to get Ian Fletcher’s number

      – I did not mislead the house (10)

      – I am honest and upfront

      – cyber terrorists have attempted to gain access to information about weapons of mass destruction held on New Zealand computers

      – the illegal spying on Kim Dotcom was an isolated incident

      – New Zealand has an arrangement to have asylum seekers processed in Australian detention camps

      – the law which says the GCSB cannot spy on New Zealanders is not clear

      – the only way net new jobs can be created is by private investors putting their money into businesses in New Zealand

      – an increase in the number of people looking for work indicates that confidence is returning to the economy

      – the 10 percent of taxpayers in New Zealand who are the top earners pay 76 percent of all net personal tax.

      – I did not mislead the House (11)

      – the substantial wage growth under Labour was eroded by inflation

      – National Ltd™’s 2010 tax changes were fiscally neutral

      – I did not mislead the House (12)

      – the bulk of New Zealanders earn between $45,000 and $75,000 a year

      – Pike River Coal did not put profits and its production ahead of the safety and lives of those 29 workers.

      – Radio Live had sought advice from the Electoral Commission about my show just before the election

      – it is because of National Ltd™’s policies that the price of fresh fruit and vegetables has dropped.

      – the length-of-the-country cycleway will create 4000 jobs.

      – police training for next year has not been cancelled

      – National Ltd™ has only cut back-office jobs in the health service

      – The Crown’s dividend stream from the Meridians, the Mighty Rivers of the world is large and there is no motivation to sell assets; actually we’re about creating assets not selling assets.”

      – National believes employment law should treat all parties fairly. It should . . . Protect employees and employers.

      – I am not trying to tackle such issues in a “fearful” way ahead of the next election

      – Wellington City is dying.

      – the GCSB has been prevented from carrying out its functions because of the law governing its functions

      – because the opposition is opposed the GCSB law ammendments, parliamentary urgency is required

      – the increasing number of cyber intrusions which I can’t detail or discuss prove that the GCSB laws need to be extended to protect prive enterprise

      – it was always the intent of the GCSB Act to be able to spy on New Zealanders on behalf of the SIS and police

      – National Ltd™ is not explanding the activities of the GCSB with this new law

      – National Ltd™ has been working on a number of things with New Zealand First on a number of things one of which has a financial component but I can’t talk about it

      – the best way to get growth in the economy is to reduce public debt

      – New Zealand mum and dad investors will be our number one priority in the allocation of Mighty River shares

      – we won’t let “cowboy” oil exploration companies operate here in New Zealand.

      – the food in schools programme is in the 2013 budget

      – the meat exports are being held up in China because of technical issues and in relation to the Chinese looking to trace counterfeit meat

      its notoriously difficult to win three elections in a row

      – I am deeply concerned about every child in New Zealand who is in poverty

      • gsays 15.2.1
        14 June 2013 at 12:45 pm

        all well and good but judging by the gist of this post i fail to see things changing much with this mob (goff, king, faafoi and cosgrove) in power.
        the excuses offered were weak: you wanna tell someone you dont agree with them, you do it from your office, not in their entertainment suite funded by exploited addicts.
        maybe it is heresy to state this on this blog but perhaps the banner colour should be changed to a purple colour (but a kinda slightly redder shade of purple).

      • Chris 15.2.2
        14 June 2013 at 1:23 pm

        I really think when people want to refer to this list they should just link to an older post. It is a great list if you are against National but it is very annoying to scroll past all the time.

        • tracey 15.2.2.1
          14 June 2013 at 1:47 pm

          I wont apologise because some haven’t seen it and it is worthy of posting… even if you have to scroll down.

          • weka 15.2.2.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 9:33 pm

            “I wont apologise because some haven’t seen it and it is worthy of posting… even if you have to scroll down.”

            I agree with Chris, it would be better to link with an introduction than post the whole thing (there are always going to be people who haven’t seen it, are you going to post it many times?). It takes 11 page downs on my laptop to get past it, and because I often come back and scroll through a thread to see new comments, I’ve had to do that multiple times today. I have a muscle disability, and extra scrolling like that is pretty tedious.

            It’s a great list, and really needs a website of it’s own that people can link to (although the ts link would be fine too).

            btw, I don’t know who Chris is, but am unclear why his simple and reasonable suggestion was met with ridicule and personal criticism.

        • freedom 15.2.2.2
          14 June 2013 at 3:10 pm

          Awww, Cwissy is all annoyed at having to hit page down a couple of times. It is sooooo tough, boohoo. You really believe it is better that people are not exposed to the corruption spewing from the ninth floor? Only the ignorant ask for less knowledge.

          • Chris 15.2.2.2.1
            14 June 2013 at 3:54 pm

            You’re right it is a small annoyance and not a big deal. It’s also not hard to fix and a link does the exact same job – potentially in a better away as there is often a natural tendency to skip over long comments (at least for me).

            Perhaps you could point out where I asked for less knowledge?

            While you probably didn’t participate in it, how often did people use to complain about Pete George’s old cut and paste jobs?

            • freedom 15.2.2.2.1.1
              14 June 2013 at 4:04 pm

              “Perhaps you could point out where I asked for less knowledge? ”
              maybe if you spent some time conscientiously working through the list and considering the totality of its contents, you would discover you have answered your own question

              • Chris …
                14 June 2013 at 4:10 pm

                So nowhere then?

                • freedom …
                  14 June 2013 at 6:51 pm

                  Your life and your knowledge are never static. After a few breaths, the view of re-experiencing information can offer fundamental opportunities to qualify a validation or confer attention upon overlooked details of the road ahead.

                  Even though you may know something, does not mean you cannot still learn from it. In this case it is also something that many others are only beginning to be aware of. Asking for its infrequent appearance to be withheld from new visitors skirts a hazardous berm, where having too many signposts creates a blindspot.

                  Like so many on our roads, you think it is all about you.

  16. jcuknz 16
    14 June 2013 at 11:52 am

    TED us right and the point is However Sky City make their money I am sure a proportion of it will arrive at Labour’s doostep .. that is the nature of the game [ life].

    You folk are all so virtuus, reading ‘DPF blunders again’. As an occasional visitor to confirm my views that you are on a whole little different to Kiwiblog, just another edge to the coin, Like the edge of little importance with all the backbiting and petty sniping discouraging much interest and certainly not votes. True there is a hell of a lot wrong with the country to my socialistic eyes, but at least the moderate centre course of the current Government is keeping life reasonably well … much better than Greece and other places. As a comedian said years ago when life was fairly rosy “You don’t know how lucky you are” with your myoptic outlook.

    I would add that I do not believe in the ‘three quote’ approach and I research who I deal with and go to the outfit I believe will do the best for me and mine. In this case it is costing the government nothing and if people waste their lives gambling that is their problem and should pay for it themselves instead of expecting the taxpayer to pick up the pieces.

    • BLiP 16.1
      14 June 2013 at 2:47 pm

      ‘

      Originally I migrated from Kiwiblog to The Standard because of the senseless slagging but as time passes I have returned to Kiwiblog for the same reason. I guess it is the frustration of the Left with nothing to say but name calling compared to the satisfaction of the Right knowing they are doing a good job in difficult conditions.

      How nice of you to pop back. Here, let me take your zimmerframe and settle you in to the comfy chair. Would you like a blanket over your knees . . . a cuppa and a gingernut, or maybe they’re a bit too firm, how about a digestive?

      . . . True there is a hell of a lot wrong with the country to my socialistic eyes, but at least the moderate centre course of the current Government is keeping life reasonably well . . . much better than Greece . . .

      Yes, indeed, much better than Greece. Isn’t that just wonderful. Now, you stay there for a sec, I’ll be right back.

      (Would someone keep an eye on jcuknz. I’ve got to pop out to the shops for a minute and I don’t want him pissing in the pot plants.)

      • rosy 16.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 7:12 pm

        the current Government is keeping life reasonably well . . . much better than Greece

        Ambishus for Nu Zilind.

        Wonderful

  17. Nicolas 17
    14 June 2013 at 11:57 am

    People need to stop finding excuses for these “Labour” MPs… This wasn’t a simple matter of stupidity or Shearer’s bad “strategies”.
    This was a matter of ethics or, perhaps more appropriately, lack of such. National stinks but it’s instances like this that show how dangerously close some Labour MPs are to bordering John Key’s territory. Simply put, I would not trust these guys in power.
    Pretty funny how some clueless “strategist” here said Shearer should have talked about Labour’s problem being with “National, not Skycity”. Shearer doesn’t need a new PR, Ted; he needs his words to be a reflection of how he actually lives.

    That’s another reason why I’ll be voting Green next year: They’ve made it pretty clear they have a problem with National AND Skycity.

  18. Rosetinted 18
    14 June 2013 at 11:59 am

    What would we get on Trademe if started off NZ Government at $1 reserve?

  20. emergency mike 20
    14 June 2013 at 12:33 pm

    So this is where we are at. Nact sells us out to corporate interests but they get off the hook because…
    some Labour MPs accepted their corporate box at the rugger.

    I agree the MPs must be thick as shit. Your party is making a major political issue about the government’s cozy shady dealings with Skycity, so you accept their corporate box and go drink their beer? It kind a looks like maybe you’re waiting for your turn to get some of that cozy shady dealings action. Or at least that’s what your opposition will imply. Duh. Was it good beer though?

    What bothers me more about this though is that Key & co are just saying “See! They do it too!” and the media and the TV watching drones just nod their heads. Two wrongs make it all go away. Well done Nu Ziland.

  21. weka 21
    14 June 2013 at 12:42 pm

    “While it was stupid of Labour MPs to muddy the waters, the real scandal goes unremarked.”

    Yes it was stupid r0b, but not just stupid. It also signifies a lack of integrity. Other commenters have touched on this above. Those Labour MPs are now so entrenched in the bullshit that they simply fail to recognise that the problem is one of ethics and integrity. The stupid bit is merely that even without ethics and integrity one can recognise the PR failure ahead of time. But the real problem is not the stupidity but their beliefs about what is appropriate in the world they live in.

  22. gsays 22
    14 June 2013 at 1:00 pm

    aarghh!
    ive just finished reading the article.
    cosgrove and faafoi thought it was ok and that it looks ok for us to pay for their flights to drink sky’s refreshments and watch the all blacks!
    my mother is fond of saying the labour party is for the working man.
    boy o boy the times have changed.
    (cue the sound of grunting and snorting of snouts in a trough, shouldering others out of the way so as to increase the afood available for meeee.)

    and the ultimate insult: key reckons this behaviour is ok!

  23. Santi 23
    14 June 2013 at 1:06 pm

    Has D. Shearer provided any explanation?
    His “leadership” is non-existent. Robertson must be smiling and Cunliffe feel cheated, very cheated.

  24. Descendant Of Sssmith 24
    14 June 2013 at 1:15 pm

    John Key sadly is right when he say Labour MP’s simply oppose for the sake of it.

    When you don’t believe in anything apart from some deluded ephemeral notion that you are left as opposed to some firm belief in things such as an 8 hour working day, 40 hour working week, low cost state housing for the poor, increased taxation to pay for things that matter, that workers should have the right to withdraw their labour, benefit rates should be liveable, etc etc then your job is done as you leave the chambers of parliament having made appropriate verbal farting noises during the session.

    Their opposition has been displayed with all the finesse of a muddied peacock and now they can mix and mingle with the moneylenders, the loansharks, the sellers of souls, the polluters of the environment, the takers of the workers wages….

    • tracey 24.1
      14 June 2013 at 1:49 pm

      “ohn Key sadly is right when he say Labour MP’s simply oppose for the sake of it.” which is ironic cos that was his party was from 2002 to 2008.

  25. gobsmacked 25
    14 June 2013 at 1:29 pm

    It is NOT about “stupidity”. It is NOT about “hindsight”.

    It took every one of us approx two seconds to work out there could be a problem with the Sky City connection. (Maybe it took ten seconds max, if it’s early and you need some caffeine).

    These MPs could work it out just as easily as any of us could. But … they went anyway. NOT because they didn’t think, but because they sinmply didn’t care.

    Why didn’t they care? Politics 101. Punishment versus Reward.

    Reward – the rugby and the freebies.

    Punishment – Zero. Zilch.

    There is no punishment because their leader is weak. Because they are in charge, not him. Because whatever else happens, all of them will be safely high on the party list, and they will still have their cosy job and freebies after 2014 (while the rest of us suffer more and more NACT shit). Even if Labour get 25%, these guys are gonna be just fine. And that’s all that matters.

    But there is also NO punishment because of misguided people like Anthony Robins and Tom Gould and a (dwindling) bunch of loyal Labour people who will always say the SAME thing, every single time …

    “I’m not happy with this latest episode, own goal number 483 and counting, but … you’ve still got my vote! And Shearer is our leader! So it’s fine, carry on guys, no consequences for you, bring on the next own goal, and the next, and …”

    Labout are better than National. That will still be true if Shearer drowns a kitten on live TV or Cosgrove says Nelson Mandela is a wanker, or … whatever they feel like. And as long as people in Labour – including those on here – ONLY ask Labour to be better then National, then you will get pissed on by your MPs again and again and again.

    There is one way to make these MPs get it, and that is by telling them straight that you will NOT support them any more. As long as you give them a free pass, they won’t change. Why would they?

    I have voted Labour at every election, including 2011. I will not vote for them next time.

    But if you want more of the same from the same people, just keep voting for it.

  26. Rodel 26
    14 June 2013 at 1:29 pm

    What a fuss about nothing! I once saw Roger Douglas in a casino.Shock! Horror! Hey, .it was not important or of relevance to anything.
    In NZ both the left and the right love making volcanoes out of anthills, having typhoons in teacups and omitting to see the forest for the twigs..

    • Colonial Viper 26.1
      14 June 2013 at 7:07 pm

      How can it be a “nothing”?

      How is your cute Roger Douglas anecdote relevant? Were they giving Sir Roger free food and drinks in as well?

    • emergency mike 26.2
      14 June 2013 at 9:22 pm

      Was his party accusing their political opposition of dirty dealings with the casino at the time? Did they take him to the VIP room?

      If you’re going to post here at least have a clue what you’re talking about.

  27. freedom 27
    14 June 2013 at 1:49 pm

    and still no mention in the media about the Prime Minister flat out lying about why Dunne had to be removed from the Intelligence and Security Committee. Why would there be? We live in an x-factor lalaland where Corporate hospo is obviously a far more crucial story.

    Brickbats all round for NZ MSM

    • gobsmacked 27.1
      14 June 2013 at 2:11 pm

      If Shearer/Labour don’t understand the MSM, they should not be in their jobs.

      The story has gone on for days because Labour MPs allowed themselves to be “outed” one by one. They could have killed it on Monday by saying “We were the MPs” and it would have been a 24 hour embarrassment, now finished. Instead they acted like they had something to hide.

      There are many ways to “spin” (e.g. Clark’s curt dismissal and death stare, or Winston’s counter-attack on the media). But Shearer just breathes oxygen into these stories with his waffle.

      Some of us have been pointing out Labour’s communications failures for 4 or 5 years, but hey, Labour MPs knew better. So nothing changes.

      • freedom 27.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 2:21 pm

        regardless of various troughers’ activities, ( remembering it is their votes in the House which should ideally be used to judge them ) the MSM chose to run with it as a lead story, refusing to cover the reality that our PM is repeatedly lying through his teeth on issues relating to the privacy; the security; and the democracy of new Zealand

        • Colonial Viper 27.1.1.1
          14 June 2013 at 7:14 pm

          gs is right. Bad staff work, bad story line management. You are right too, but none of us have much influence over the actions of the MSM.

          • freedom 27.1.1.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 8:58 pm

            and they should not let themselves be influenced
            aim for the clouds and you may land upon a mountain top

            • Colonial Viper 27.1.1.1.1.1
              14 June 2013 at 9:07 pm

              the rate this is going some of us might end up thrown out of a plane. Does that count?

  28. amirite 28
    14 June 2013 at 1:55 pm

    The sad truth is that hypocrisy of Labour is now the big story in the media, bigger than the deep shit that National is pushing the country into. The general public that watches the News or reads the Herald perceive it as such. They don’t care about the scab law, but they are happy to point their finger at the four past their use-by date Labour MPs and their inept leader. Makes me want to vote for the Greens.

  29. Tim 29
    14 June 2013 at 3:22 pm

    “It’s a pretty sad state of affairs. National have sold out NZ law, run a rigged process to favour Sky City, and signed off on arrangements that will increase the social damage caused by problem gambling. There in the corporate box the Nat MPs were no doubt lined up deep at the trough of corporate largesse, wallowing further in a relationship which is already far too cozy. But this “government for sale” is just fine, doesn’t raise a media eyebrow.”

    Whilst I agree totally with what you say – it’s evidence for WHY this current Labour leadership JUST AIN’T up to it!

    They’re not thick (apparently) – they know (apparently) the right-wing spin and their agenda – they know the difficulties they face with the current disposition of the MSM …..
    YET they hand scoring points to this bugger’s muddle of a gubbamint on a silver platter almost daily.

    After a middle-age lifetime – they lost me (I didn’t lose them) and about 20 others I know in the same waka.
    I very much want to support them. They’ve fucked up, and do so DAILY.
    Comes a time when pushing shit uphill becomes unnecessarily messy.
    It’s time Labour bit the bullet now and put the long term welfare of the party, and the electorate they purport to represent AHEAD of the egos, the blind ambition and self-interest of half a dozen folk that have come to believe they’re ‘entitled’

    Keep it up though, and there’ll be a trans-Tasman example (if it keeps to its current course) to show an outcome

    • Colonial Viper 29.1
      14 June 2013 at 3:35 pm

      I’m sure Australian Labor members will be loyal to the last and support their Leader going into…an electoral massacre

    • Paul 29.2
      14 June 2013 at 7:52 pm

      If we take your thesis that the Labour leadership are not thick and know the right wing spin and agenda, then maybe, just maybe incidents joke the Sky City Corporate box are not accidents or random events, but deliberate actions.
      Some members of the Labour caucus have history. Maybe they are so owned by corporate interests that are merely doing their masters’ bidding.
      Ensure the neo-liberal experiment stays in place.
      Solution….either allow National to win another election or quietly follow basically the same policies as National in subjects such as gambling etc.

  30. Chrissy 30
    14 June 2013 at 4:35 pm

    So,while all this is going on what is national up to?

  31. infused 31
    14 June 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Fuck Shearer is awesome.

  32. infused 32
    14 June 2013 at 4:50 pm

    Fuck Shearer is awesome.

  33. infused 33
    14 June 2013 at 4:51 pm

    D-D-D-D-D Double post.

  34. newsense 34
    14 June 2013 at 5:08 pm

    needed saying twice.

  35. Peter 35
    14 June 2013 at 5:31 pm

    Commonsense suggests you need a good wotking relationship with Sky City and the power companies. It would be disadvantageous not to meet them socially at the highest level.

    • Colonial Viper 35.1
      14 June 2013 at 6:55 pm

      First class tickets to Club Med paid for by Sky City are the only way to go.

  36. freedom 36
    14 June 2013 at 7:01 pm

    Getting a nagging feeling the only action Shearer could have taken to the satisfaction of the real hypocrites is for him to have stormed into the Sky City box, grabbed his MP’s by the lugholes and marched them out with stern promises to ban all gaming privileges and no dessert for a week. 🙄

    • Colonial Viper 36.1
      14 June 2013 at 7:17 pm

      nah bullshit

      it was already all over once the group invitation from SkyCity to Labour MPs was accepted. After that moment the only thing left to do was fight big fires.

  37. tc 37
    14 June 2013 at 7:02 pm

    So the real leaders of labour do as they please as they know DS can’t do anything against them, trev probably let chris take his place. DS is made to look ineffective and lacking authority…..again.

    Labour will be a minor party after 2014, it’s as inevitable as the old guard are nasty and past their use by dates. Looking very much a spent force these days.

    • Paul 37.1
      14 June 2013 at 7:44 pm

      They deserve to be if they think this is how to reflect the needs of the vulnerable and weak of Auckland.
      I think that Labour are so tainted by its actions in the 1980s that they cannot free themselves from the neo-liberal trap they fell into then. Of course Goff was part of that government and as a result he is highly compromised. The Labour Party, until it completely and unreservedly renounces its actions of the Douglas era, cannot make a true link with the working people of NZ.
      Some of them don’t want to change the neo-liberal paradigm as they still believe the no alternative argument; others are so fatally compromised they can do nothing. These ‘Labour’ leaders have supped with he corporate devil for a long time and are in debt to business.
      Labour needs new leadership and members of parliament – not the careerists presently in power.

  38. BM 38
    14 June 2013 at 7:26 pm

    I actually wonder if there’s a bit more to this story.

    Doesn’t it strike you as strange that all the heavy hitters in the current Labour line up would be meeting up in a Sky city box and Shearer won’t let on who he was meeting?

    Taking a wild stab in the dark, I’d say that they were having a off the camera discussion with the Sky city management to discuss their position regarding the conference center, smooth the waters, let them no that they’re actually all for the deal and that their vocal opposition is purely political.

    • fender 38.1
      14 June 2013 at 7:43 pm

      You should try turning the light on.

      Didn’t they say they were trying to procure season passes for 35 years?

    • marty mars 38.2
      14 June 2013 at 8:36 pm

      shearers probably pissed they got to spend more time with the mystery person and the reason he just about threw his phone against the wall is he is upset that he didn’t accept the invite so he missed out on having a longer chat with that person that he knew was in the box

  39. gobsmacked 39
    14 June 2013 at 7:55 pm

    Sky City’s PR guy is Goff’s former chief of staff:

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/BU1207/S01014/skycity-new-general-manager-corporate-communications.htm

    Anyone still believe that puppet Shearer is committed to scrap Key’s cosy deal?

    • karol 39.1
      14 June 2013 at 8:20 pm

      Just when I think it can’t get any worse. What is that guy thinking?

      • Paul 39.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 8:41 pm

        He is the right wing’s secret weapon.
        He’s thinking mission accomplished.

      • Rhinocrates 39.1.2
        14 June 2013 at 8:54 pm

        It’s not one guy, it’s the whole self-entitled gang of troughers on the front bench. I thought that self-awareness was a quality of wisdom that comes with age, and maybe it does for some, but the sheer solipsism of this lot refutes that as a general rule.

    • marty mars 39.2
      14 June 2013 at 8:44 pm

      Corporates don’t invite politicians to their corporate box without a very good business reason – anyone who thinks this is about rugby is gullible in the extreme.

      • Rob 39.2.1
        14 June 2013 at 8:57 pm

        Yep but the big news is that they have all accepted the invite to Mighty River Powers box at AMI stadium on Saturday. I understand that Craig Investment Partners are hosting them , should be a real top night out .

  40. Anne 40
    14 June 2013 at 8:58 pm

    It’s beginning to become clearer now what may have happened. This guy Gordon Thompson was Goff’s chief press secretary and was also a former press secretary to Helen Clark. During his tenure at the Beehive, he would have come to know all the senior Labour figures (past and present) well.

    I wonder if the invites to the four Labour MPs were directly sent through him, which would explain why the Office of the Leader of the Opposition appear to have not known about them. I’m sure if they had, Shearer would have been informed. It doesn’t let any of the 4 MPs off the hook. In fact it makes it worse. I can’t believe they didn’t contemplate how it would look if they were spotted. Was the desire to attend with all the fancy trimmings just too tempting for them to give up?

    I’m feeling sorry for Shearer. He’s no more clairvoyant than the rest of us. His own most senior supporters let him down. Better it should happen now and not in 12 month’s time.

    • Colonial Viper 40.1
      14 June 2013 at 9:04 pm

      Pretty sure that Shearer said in the Radio Live interview that he had a choice to accept the SkyCity corporate invite or go with the NZRU corporate invite. There is also no reason to believe that the MPs who went were the only MPs invited to go. The MPs who went, went to dinner together beforehand, so they communicated with each other, at least.

    • Boadicea 40.2
      16 June 2013 at 12:37 pm

      1. Any large corporate organising invitations to an Eden Park box for an AB gig put a lot of thought into the planning. There are only sixteen positions in a box. If four are for the hosts then twelve are for the guests.
      2. The CEO and the senior management team will be involved in the guest selection and invitations.
      3. The hosts will have a bio and “talking points” briefing on each guest.
      4. Only C level guests are invited to AB gigs and every invite has a specific intent.

      Likewise senior people lookout for box invites to AB games. It is the top networking event.
      You can de very sure that all the MPs were aware of the invites each other had. Shearer was aware also. Shearer has lied.

  41. Blanche Charles 41
    14 June 2013 at 9:32 pm

    The media and other critics have lost sight of the fact that all they did was attend a football match. Once upon a time people could do that without having to consider whether or not it was “PC”. But corporate sponsorship has changed all that. It’s a sad day when people can’t do a basic thing like attend a sports match without first having to weigh up political consequences. Rugby matches are now only available for the well-heeled to watch live on TV and it seems that only Tories may – thanks to their shonky politics – attend them. (Personally, I’m not a rugby fan, but I deplore the fact that only certain segments of our society may now enjoy the live game).

    • rosy 41.1
      14 June 2013 at 11:30 pm

      It’s a sad day when people can’t do a basic thing like attend a sports match without first having to weigh up political consequences.

      If they paid for the tickets themselves and sat in the stands with their mates instead of in a corporate box then there would be no having to weigh up the political consequences. It’s not like they don’t get paid enough to splurge on a game now and then if it’s important enough, or have Sky at home. Otherwise they can be like the rest who want their rugby in a social environment and go to the local sports bar and watch.

      Imo, when government officials (elected or paid) gets an invite to a social function from a corporate so as to ‘build relationships’ or ‘communicate’ it suits the corporate agenda and compromises the official. Invites to social events are all business – decline, and do the business in a minuted business environment.

  42. Blanche Charles 42
    14 June 2013 at 9:51 pm

    BTW, invitations to all sorts of high-profile events flood into [all] MPs’ / Ministers’ offices all the time. There’s no discrimination between political parties, so the fact that Sky City’s PR officer is a former Labour staffer has no particular relevance to this particular situation. It’s a fair bet that all Cabinet ministers and probably most other MPs would have been invited – just one of the many invitations to arrive in their offices each day. So far we know of 4 Labour MPs who attended a rugby match. Big deal. Let’s get upset about important matters like a government which is legislating against people taking a tea break, or permitting employers to cut youth wages by 20%, for starters!!

    • Colonial Viper 42.1
      14 June 2013 at 10:03 pm

      Labour staffer has no particular relevance to this particular situation. It’s a fair bet that all Cabinet ministers and probably most other MPs would have been invited – just one of the many invitations to arrive in their offices each day.

      Haha doubt it. Anyway if what you say is true, then the entire Labour caucus knew that this event was coming up and thought it was OK to attend.

      In my experience corporate organisers are usually very careful not to invite guests from rival suppliers or rival political parties to the same small numbers event, unless there is a specific agenda.

      • Blanche Charles 42.1.1
        14 June 2013 at 11:01 pm

        In my time I’ve had to deal with invitations that come into a number of their offices. On the whole MPs accept very few – depends on their other commitments. Their usual heavy workload doesn’t spare them much time to attend most of the events they’re invited to. Putting aside the wisdom or otherwise of attending this particular event, 4 out of 31 is hardly a huge proportion.

        “Anyway if what you say is true, then the entire Labour caucus knew that this event was coming up and thought it was OK to attend.

        Nobody can conclude that. Invitations arrive separately in each office and are initially dealt with by their staff member. They don’t invite the caucus, en bloc. Invitations are pretty low on the list of important daily matters for MPs and hardly a matter for major discussion. Can’t imagine that “invitations” would be on a caucus agenda. (They might in future, though). 😉

        “In my experience corporate organisers are usually very careful not to invite guests from rival suppliers or rival political parties to the same small numbers event, unless there is a specific agenda.”

        There’s more than one corporate box in these places – they needn’t be invited to share the same one. But that’s being unnecessarily melodramatic. Funnily enough, during their working week in Wellington MPs / Cabinet Ministers all eat in the same cafe and stand together in the same queue waiting for their meals or coffee and pass the time of day with each other in a perfectly civilised manner. MPs of different parties sit on committees together, travel in the same lifts and even manage to sit next to each other on plane trips without WW3 breaking out.

        They mix with each other the rest of the time so why not at a public function?

        • Colonial Viper 42.1.1.1
          14 June 2013 at 11:11 pm

          They mix with each other the rest of the time so why not at a public function?

          Very cute interpretation of “public function”. The Sky City corporate box was open to the public? I don’t think so.

          Nobody can conclude that. Invitations arrive separately in each office and are initially dealt with by their staff member. They don’t invite the caucus, en bloc…and hardly a matter for major discussion. Can’t imagine that “invitations” would be on a caucus agenda.

          Funny then how the Labour MPs all ended up at dinner before hand, not by co-ordination and planning, but by accident. What are the chances.

          In my time I’ve had to deal with invitations that come into a number of their offices.

          Always pleased to converse with a Labour Parliamentary staffer. I didn’t think you guys read The Standard.

          • gobsmacked 42.1.1.1.1
            14 June 2013 at 11:55 pm

            Blanche Charles perfectly demonstrates what is wrong with Labour today.

            Anybody who exists outside the building would be able to give the MPs a big warning light as soon as they saw the invitation from Sky City. Only a prisoner of the insular world of Wellington could miss it.

            Next time you need help from the outside world, give us a call. We could have saved you a week of trouble.

            • Colonial Viper 42.1.1.1.1.1
              15 June 2013 at 12:24 am

              Too bad NZers outside the beltway are either considered the enemy, or at the very least, painfully ignorant and naive.

            • Blanche Charles 42.1.1.1.1.2
              15 June 2013 at 12:28 am

              To Gobsmacked – That’s fine but I’m not a Labour staffer. I’m merely a person who has worked for both parties in a non-political role and who is reading this melodramatic stuff. Don’t jump to conclusions.

            • Descendant Of Sssmith 42.1.1.1.1.3
              15 June 2013 at 7:31 am

              Yeah the issue isn’t the accepting of the invitation it’s the hypocracy of alleging a business did a shonky deal with government during the week and then cavorting with them in the weekend and completely ignoring the likely possibility of how that would be perceived either by the media or by the public.

              Seriously how many people here would have, if they were a politician, having made such accusations – or their party had – against any business week after week, under the full glare of the media spotlight including front page and lead stories on TV, not simply said “uh uh not me, that would be dumb and would have the potential to embarrass myself and my party”.

              It seems so obvious and these people are supposed to be trained in understanding the political implications and perceptions of conflict of interest.

          • Blanche Charles 42.1.1.1.2
            15 June 2013 at 12:25 am

            “In my time” – doesn’t necessarily mean current. Now unemployed. Don’t jump to conclusions. I never claimed to be either a Labour or a Parliamentary staffer. I worked for them – and the current lot, for that matter – in the other (ministerial) building. (Two different employers: Parliamentary Services & Ministerial Services).

            “Funny then how the Labour MPs all ended up at dinner before hand, not by co-ordination and planning, but by accident. What are the chances.”

            Another conspiracy theory, perhaps? Of course they talk to each other! They would have organised to meet for dinner when they learned that they were each going – maybe they discovered it if/when they were on the same plane. Who knows (or cares!) They’ve got to eat somewhere, for goodness sake. But what’s the crime in that and why the heck do people have to make it sound like a big deal.

            “Very cute interpretation of “public function”. The Sky City corporate box was open to the public? I don’t think so.”

            Very cute interpretation of my comment, too. Nowhere did I say that SC corp box was open to the public! I merely asked a general question (in response to your comment, which did not mention any particular event or place, either).- my question: why MPs of different parties couldn’t mix at a (meaning “any”) public function (meaning ” function with members of the public”), given that they mix together, of necessity, in the course of their day in Wellington.

            That question was not referring specifically to Sky City or to anywhere else – it was addressing the quaint notion that members of opposing political parties can’t be expected to mix at a gathering. viz: “In my experience corporate organisers are usually very careful not to invite guests from rival suppliers or rival political parties to the same small numbers event, unless there is a specific agenda”.

            • Colonial Viper 42.1.1.1.2.1
              15 June 2013 at 12:43 am

              Your complicated, subtle and multilayered excuses might sway the 2% who look at the world with beltway glasses.

              Very cute interpretation of my comment, too. Nowhere did I say that SC corp box was open to the public!

              Of course you didn’t you just said they were meeting up (in a security controlled invitation only Corporate Box) at a public event. You missed out the security controlled invitation only Corporate Box part.

              Another conspiracy theory, perhaps?

              LOL! First you say there was probably no communication or discussion between Labour MPs before the event, then you say of course they discovered their mutual invitations and talked about getting together for dinner beforehand. Stellar stuff.

            • Colonial Viper 42.1.1.1.2.2
              15 June 2013 at 12:50 am

              Your complicated, subtle and multilayered excuses might sway the 2% who look at the world with beltway glasses.

              • McFlock …
                15 June 2013 at 1:17 am

                First you say there was probably no communication or discussion between Labour MPs before the event, then you say of course they discovered their mutual invitations and talked about getting together for dinner beforehand.

                How on earth did you manage to misunderstand BC to that degree?

                It’s pretty simple:
                1) unbeknownst to each other, various MPs get invites to the skycity box. Most decline but four from Labour stupidly accept.
                2) sometime between the invitations and the event, the four discover that they’re all going to the rugby.
                3) so they decide to have dinner beforehand.

                They might have discovered thecoincidence on the plane, in small-talk in the lobby, or from their mutual acquaintance the SC-GM (Goff’s former staffer). Yes, they were politically stupid for going to the SC box, but you don’t need a big conspiracy theory to say that. Nor do you need to invent backstories for commenters.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  15 June 2013 at 2:04 am

                  Yes of course what was I thinking, all the MPs who thought of accepting the invite managed to identify each other through general small talk and coincidence, but no one else cottoned on eg all the other MPs who were also invited but thought better (eg Shearer) didn’t happen to overhear any of those conversations.

                  • Ad …
                    15 June 2013 at 7:35 am

                    Anyone imagine Heather Simpson didn’t do a Friday audit of diaries? Not hard.

                    Clark held it for 3 terms with huge diary discipline. Blanche is utterly naive.

                    I’ve done it with Mayors offices, corporate Board members, major CE’s.

                    Even Toby Ziegler knew how to coordinate diaries for maximum hit.

                    FFS. It’s called political management.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      15 June 2013 at 1:44 pm

                      Ad – yep. You can see a professional political management machine in action happen from a mile away.

                      Look at the drumbeat of what they are doing to Snowden now. First they say he didn’t earn as much as he said he did. Then he was unethical in breaking his confidentiality agreement and trust his employer had given him. Then there’s no way he had access to the systems and information he said he did. Now it’s checking for possibilities that he might have been working for a foreign power all along and different congressmen coming forwards saying look, we should have known more about this surveillance before but we’ve been briefed now and it looks fine and legal to us.

                      It really is beautiful, in a creepy way, to watch.

                    • Poission …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:29 pm

                      “we should have known more about this surveillance before but we’ve been briefed now”

                      The tax haven information could only have come from a government agency,as the access involved multiple servers across a great number of Jurisdictions.

                      The GOP ( or its various interNATtional franchises) are is going to have a hard time validating that model to their customer base who most probably being doing hard time.

                      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/14/offshore-tax-haven-_n_3443722.html

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      16 June 2013 at 12:43 pm

                      Did you notice Snowden saying earlier that his watching the agencies compromise and turn a Swiss banker using a drink driving charge was one of the events which made him realise that there was a problem with the system.

                  • McFlock …
                    15 June 2013 at 1:35 pm

                    You must be right, CV.
                    They all got into a little corner and decided to lobby skycity for invitations, just to give you something to bitch about.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      15 June 2013 at 1:40 pm

                      Yeah that’s just as likely as your scenario where 100% of the people who said yes to the invitation managed to find each other by coincidence, but 100% of the people who declined or who were not invited didn’t hear a thing about it, again by sheer coincidence.

                      Could it happen? Sure, there is an alternate reality somewhere where that 0.2% probability came through and maybe that’s where you are saying we are now.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 1:54 pm

                      but 100% of the people who declined or who were not invited didn’t hear a thing about it, again by sheer coincidence.

                      there you go, randomly adding shit that didn’t happen and running off on a tangent again.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      15 June 2013 at 2:00 pm

                      That’s what I’m saying. It’s the shit which didn’t happen which is also informative.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 2:14 pm

                      fs, it’s like you switch off half your braincells whenever the labour caucus is mentioned.

                      Your description of “my scenario” is that the entire labour caucus (100% of those who were going and 100% of those who weren’t going) knew that those four were going to the rugby and exactly whose corporate box they would be in.

                      Even those people who don’t give a shit about rugby.

                      And nobody said it might be a bad look.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:02 pm

                      Fine, make whatever excuses you like, rearrange the deck chairs however you like. They’ve mishandled it, it’s blown up in their faces, they looking like troughing self-entitled incompetents and handed ammunition to the Tories and undermined a crucial policy. Yet again.

                      At the end of the day, thats how it looks because that’s how they’ve allowed it to look. Speculation about possible motives and whatnot don’t matter in the least.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:12 pm

                      Damn, there goes me stalking rhino again.

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:28 pm

                      Elephant in the gun.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:47 pm

                      Care to say anything of substance McF, instead of projecting the usual personal insinuations that you accuse everyone else of using?

                      The fact is, you do have something to contribute and some good points to make. Your attempts to denigrate and intimidate individuals (which you have been warned about) here do you no credit.

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:54 pm

                      Ambush!

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:57 pm

                      damn, there I go again.

                    • Rogue Trooper …
                      15 June 2013 at 4:59 pm

                      It is a burning bush.

                    • Olwyn …
                      15 June 2013 at 5:14 pm

                      This corporate box business would have less traction if Labour (a) owned and defended a position, and (b) were trusted. Presently, they do not and are not.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 5:17 pm

                      @Olwyn

                      Personally, I don’t think it has any traction at all. Except for some folk here,of course.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 5:22 pm

                      I had a lifelong loyalty to Labour, and I admire the policy the PARTY is producing. I am really, really, REALLY concerned about both the competence and commitment of the front bench of the caucus, and based on their actions – their competence – especially their competence – and their ideological commitment – I cannot support them.

                      There are eight hundred thousand registered voters who painted their roofs in 2011.

                      I need to see a government in waiting. The reason why eight hundred thousand painted their roofs and why Shearer’s mob persistently, despite all the gifts that Key’s banksters give them, is that they are not a government in waiting.

                    • Descendant Of Sssmith …
                      15 June 2013 at 5:22 pm

                      It doesn’t have traction cause it’s not really surprising. As noted Labour stand pretty much for the same stuff as National. The only surprise is that Mallard wasn’t there as well.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 5:35 pm

                      Personally, I don’t think it has any traction at all. Except for some folk here,of course.

                      I’m glad that makes you feel well “personally”.

                      However, it does have traction and that’s obvious in the media, and it will be used in the 2014 campaign debates.

                      Here are things that I believe in:

                      Enlightenment

                      Immortality

                      Laphroaig

                      Chocolate

                      J. S. Bach (performed by Glenn Gould)

                      Joy Division

                      Titian

                      Turner

                      Rubbra

                      Beethoven

                      Shostakovich

                      Brian Eno

                      Rem Koolhaas

                      (can’t stand Brahms, sorry, trying to get to know Wagner…)

                      And so on.

                      Now, what is my ability to ensure that everyone gets to know and love them?

                      Very little, I assure you, because nice thoughts aren’t enough.

                      Now, wait for “Show me the money!” Key’s going to use that, and even if he’s deposed, Collins will.

                      And Shearer will say,

                      “Um, ah, well…”

                      I’m waiting for competence, consistency and core belief to deliver what I need, not what I’d like to believe. I don’t see it – and every week, I see yet another demonstration of incompetence, shallowness, self-entitlement and cupidity.

                      Have a look at the polls, stop hoping and start asking some questions.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 5:38 pm

                      @DoSsssmith:

                      mallard should have learnt his lesson after the trademe ticket thing.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 6:51 pm

                      mallard should have learnt his lesson after the trademe ticket thing.

                      So then, has he?

                      Again, I’m not interested in hope, I’m interested in proof. It seems that Goof, King, Someone, wosshisname, Cosgrove something and Chris Mini-Me something the paratrooper still haven’t. Some of them are supposedly “veterans”, I gather.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 7:12 pm

                      whoops, I stalked someone again.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 7:43 pm

                      Oh FFS, how about trying to make a positive contribution yourself, since you’re so concerned that others aren’t?, or is it all about scoring petty personal points?

                      All I see from you in relation to anyone else on this blog is personal denigration and snide innuendoes. Clearly I’m not your only target, but nonetheless, as I’ve said, you’ve a lot to contribute, but your obsession with attacking individual posters is seriously undermining your argument and says more about you than them or myself.

                      The fact is that your posting has been very personal, intended to denigrate and intimidate individuals.

                      That is a pity, since your criticisms of the Tories are appropriate.

                      And I’ve had experience of a stalker, from the wrong end of it, and you might find it laughable, but I assure you, you do not want to experience it… and I know that no stalker ever consciously admits that they are one, but they nonetheless keep acting like one – and you fit the pattern.

                    • marty mars …
                      15 June 2013 at 8:06 pm

                      This wasn’t political stupidity by the SC4 it was the opposite – they all knew what they were doing and they didn’t give a fuck because there were bigger issues to be dealt with and the political fallout was meaningless because whatever they were there for is/was more important to them. They knew what it would look like and they didn’t care – that is where the direction of any speculation should begin – why didn’t they care.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 8:12 pm

                      Actually, this highlights the nature of abuse.

                      Contrary to stereotype, I was stalked by an abusive woman, but I know that in most cases, it is abusive men stalking women. Always, the stalker thinks that they are the innocent party – because it is their right, and their right alone, to determine what is abusive and they’ll trivialise their effect to establish their own determination of what constitutes “attack”. That in itself is a power ploy. They try constantly, obsessively, to establish their position either as superior or as justified in some way, by belittling, by ridicule, by insisting on some sin that they might almost forgive if certain hoops were jumped through.

                      If this sounds familiar, do not blame yourself, just get out, get whatever protection you can, immediately.

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 8:16 pm

                      @marty

                      Interesting theory, but I think that if they were there for nefarious purposes then they were fools to meet so publicly. I’m sure sc were after “networking time”, but I reckon the mps saw free rugby tickets.

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      15 June 2013 at 8:21 pm

                      We’re all thankful for your leaping to the defence

                    • McFlock …
                      15 June 2013 at 8:29 pm

                      @ rhino
                      No. I do not want to debate with you. I would be quite happy if you never addressed me, replied to my comments, or cut&paste-quoted me ever again, and vice versa.

                      In fact I quite hope that this is the last comment I ever address to you directly.

                      Any value from cogent points either of us might make is more than negated by the fact that we are obviously on fundamentally different wavelengths.

                      So kindly fuck off, there’s a good chap.

                    • Rhinocrates …
                      15 June 2013 at 8:49 pm

                      Of course, it’s all about you, isn’t it?

                      It’s not.

                      Take your own advice. Back off. I told you repeatedly to do so, but you wouldn’t. Stop trying to pretend that you’re the unfairly accused victim.

                      It’s not up to you to determine the harm that you do. There are no points for you to claim. You do not have that power, much as you would like to have it.

                      I hope that this is the one lesson you take from this so that you do not inflict your behaviour on others in your physical space, and that is the lesson that others who might be in abusive relationships learn for their sakes and safety.

                    • marty mars …
                      15 June 2013 at 9:08 pm

                      @McFlock Good point mate 🙂

                    • McFlock …
                      16 June 2013 at 3:11 am

                      *head desk*