Kiwis feel worse off after Nat tax swindle

23 comments on “Kiwis feel worse off after Nat tax swindle ”

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1. aj 1

   22 November 2010 at 10:51 am

   They had to borrow to put these first cuts in place.

   “North of $50” – Yeah, right
2. Lanthanide 2

   22 November 2010 at 11:30 am

   “Among National voters, 14.9 percent felt better off, 44.6 percent were neutral and 37.3 percent said they were worse off.

   Of Labour voters, 4.2 percent feel better off, 30.4 percent neither better nor worse and 62.9 percent worse off.”

   It’d be nice to see this data controlled for incomes, to see if your political bias determines how you feel about extra cash in your back pocket.

   I guess you could explain such a difference as Labour voters being more critical and discriminating as they disagree with the idea, whereas National voters would tend to ‘go with the flow’ and not question the increase, rather than simply saying that “Labour voters instinctively disagree with anything National does, even if it actually benefits them”.
   • Bright Red 2.1

     22 November 2010 at 11:37 am

     although that is a pretty justifible instinct, going from history.
   • Bazar 2.2

     22 November 2010 at 2:12 pm

     You could guess what the differance is by many things, but without any data, its just guessing and/or wishful thinking.

     I’d say its that labour supporters that are feeling the recession the hardest, so since the tax changes, things have degraded rather then improved.

     Or that its national that are the most pragmatic about the future of our country and can see that the tax changes helped level the playing field between those that avoid taxes using trust accounts, and those that don’t.

     And i’m sure someone will come in and “correct” me, but there is little solid data in that survey. Just two facts.
     That most people think they are worse off, and that who you vote for greatly affects your bais.
     • Lanthanide 2.2.1

       22 November 2010 at 2:37 pm

       “I’d say its that labour supporters that are feeling the recession the hardest, so since the tax changes, things have degraded rather then improved.”

       That’s why I said the income should be controlled, so that the only main variable is who you vote for. In general there’s no reason that someone who votes labour on $60k and someone who votes national on $60k should somehow have a difference in “feeling the recession”.

       “Or that its national that are the most pragmatic about the future of our country and can see that the tax changes helped level the playing field between those that avoid taxes using trust accounts, and those that don’t.”
       They did that by lowering the trust tax rate to 28% and the top tax rate to 33%, thereby still leaving a 5% window between trusts and not-trusts? How is that levelling the playing field? Sure, it’s smaller than the 8% gap between 30 and 38, but it’s still significant enough to put your assets in trusts (or keep them there if they are already).
   • Vicky32 2.3

     22 November 2010 at 2:52 pm

     I actually took part in this poll if it’s the Horizon one) and yes, they asked about incomes. I am a Labour voter and I certainly haven’t benefitted, it’s that simple… There’s no connection between the two things. If I were better off, I would have said so. Honesty is an important value for me.
     Deb
   • bbfloyd 2.4

     22 November 2010 at 4:12 pm

     the old “we would do it, so they would too” assumption again…… along the way, insulting the integrity of people you will never know.. can’t even call it dissembling…. i suppose someone had to try it though…
3. Craig Glen Eden 3

   22 November 2010 at 11:51 am

   But But you mean tax cuts are not the panacea to my financial ills? Oh no John Key was lying when he said the vast majority of Nzers would be better off under National. What about closing the wage gap with Australia surely they are doing that ? No . What about that cycle way ? No nothing. What about GDP and the Government debt levels, no they are all going in the wrong direction to.

   Oh hang on what about improved transparency openess and accountability in Government you know no more outrageous housing and travel perks for Government Ministers.No

   Oh I feel let down I really do!

   Anti spam word “wine” where’s my bottle John
4. tc 4

   22 November 2010 at 12:19 pm

   As beatson exposed this with a simple question to Blinglish “what research have you done around the middle/lower income groups to analyse the impact of GST rise V tax cuts..”
   Blinglish ” we haven’t done any..”
   Beatson ” so how do you know they’ll be better off ?…”

   It’s not only that they don’t know but more to the point they don’t care or give a F….you’d do some analysis if you did and prove you’ve thought it through otherwise……a relentless focus on looking after our rich mates is the only message coming from the nat’s.
5. Colonial Viper 5

   22 November 2010 at 3:00 pm

   Tax cuts to fund your personal life style is like debt to fund your personal lifestyle. You MIGHT live like you are better off, but you’re just kicking the can a bit down the road and hiding from the fact that your income hasn’t actually increased.

   And NACT have no idea how to increase real incomes in NZ. (In fact for many they seem to be doing the opposite). So lets be clear here: people aren’t leaving NZ for Oz because they have lower taxes In Australia, but because they have higher incomes over there. Bill and John have absolutely no reply to that, and no credible plan for a reply. National are rudderless and directionless.
6. Fisiani 6

   22 November 2010 at 3:16 pm

   Feeling worse off is not the same as actually being worse off. Every taxpayer is taking home more money and prices have risen by far less than the anticipated one off 2.2% rise from GST.
   This opinion poll is not based on the reality of better incomes for everyone it is just opinion. Opinions are often wrong. Like for instance the opinion that the 7% swing to National in Mana was a great success for Labour……….
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     22 November 2010 at 3:20 pm

     Lolz you sound like a doctor saying to a patient: you’re fit and well, don’t complain to me that you are feeling sick, what would you know, you’re just the patient!
   • bbfloyd 6.2

     22 November 2010 at 3:55 pm

     Fisi…even for you that was lame… you’re starting to sound shrill.

     i took part in the poll as well.. it was quite comprehensive, and very wide ranging.. i would be interested in seeing the total results.. i think they would make interesting reading.
   • Craig Glen Eden 6.3

     22 November 2010 at 4:09 pm

     No swing to National Fisinai National got less votes than last time. Key spent a lot of time in the electorate so probably cost her votes?
     Or was it just that less people actually voted for both parties but Chris got 1080 more votes than Lady Gardner. But I have to agree with you about opinion polls apparently they say that the majority of people think Keys a good PM, the reality says he promises heaps and delivers bugger all (Smile and Wave).

     But hey we shouldn’t expect to much from a guy who feels like a winner when his Party has just lost. So aspirational!

     Anti spam word Lazy yup!
   • Lanthanide 6.4

     22 November 2010 at 4:30 pm

     “Feeling worse off is not the same as actually being worse off.”
     And making crap up is not the same as having actual facts to back up your statements.

     “Every taxpayer is taking home more money”
     Prove it.

     “and prices have risen by far less than the anticipated one off 2.2% rise from GST.”
     Prove it.
   • Daveosaurus 6.5

     22 November 2010 at 5:52 pm

     “Every taxpayer is taking home more money”

     Mere sophistry. I pay a higher percentage of my income in tax this year than I did at this time last year, therefore my taxes have gone up.

     Thanks a bunch, High Tax National.
     • Colonial Viper 6.5.1

       22 November 2010 at 6:10 pm

       Dave-O its your own fault for not having an annual income >$150K p.a. I hear that group did OK tax wise under National.
   • KJT 6.6

     22 November 2010 at 6:01 pm

     Prices of food and necessities have risen by a lot more than 2.2% over the last few months. Of course the CPI is fiddled with luxuries added and some things excluded to show price inflation as lower than reality.

     If you are buying cars and flat screen TV’s you may be better off. For everyone else who just buys groceries we are much worse off. 0 to 2% pay increases mean another year where median wages are lagging further behind price inflation.
     • Draco T Bastard 6.6.1

       22 November 2010 at 7:41 pm

       Prices of food and necessities have risen by a lot more than 2.2% over the last few months.

       Yep, prices of food have been doing nasty things since the recession began and wages began falling.
7. Maui 7

   22 November 2010 at 3:28 pm

   We could convert members of unviable industries into currency traders. 600,000 Japanese housewives reputedly trade currencies every day to make ends meet, but I have yet to see the evidence.
8. AB 8

   22 November 2010 at 4:16 pm

   What looks like a full tables of results on this survey is published by HorizonPoll at
   http://www.horizonpoll.co.nz/page/72/more-than-half-say-they-are-worse-off-after-major-tax-reform
9. kriswgtn 9

   22 November 2010 at 10:13 pm

   Our household food spending has gone up $20 a week and we havent added anything extra
   youre a thief and a liar Donkey

   better off – nah hes better off more like

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