I thought all the front line people were supposed to be vaccinated months ago? Why is it taking so long when the border is so important. Simple solution is when employees turn up to start their shift, if they can’t show anything to say they are vaccinated, then they are sent home on unpaid leave.
Covid 19 coronavirus: Securing the weakness at the border … by October – NZ Herald
Most kiwis seem to have this view that we are happy to wait because COVID hasn’t got into the community. I don’t really know anyone who is overly anxious to get it. Its simply a case of when its my turn, I will. Fucking crazy view but thats New Zealand for you.
But I agree. It should simply be mandatory for border workers.
If you’d taken the trouble to watch the PMs post cabinet news conference rather than eagerly consume the pure anti-government propaganda from the Herald your questions would be answered.
It was claimed by someone on Q&A (I think) that a lot of those not vaccinated are casual port workers. I don’t know how it works, but Covid has likely reduced the number of ships entering our smaller ports so some of these people may not have been working on the wharves for some time. Hence they have missed vaccination opportunities.
Could just be waiting for the next generation vaccine in order to lower the risk to themselves. Nothing wrong with putting yourself first, especially when we know that in the unlikely event things do go wrong you have no insurance cover and a really shit welfare system for the most dependent (mildly impaired are treated much better).
Our current mRNA vaccine doesn’t confer sterilised immunity, meaning transmission can still take place so any community benefit is highly questionable. Here is an actual expert (more like an expert of experts imho) talking about just how risky that strategy could be.
Highly questionable, huh. Underlining and everything, too. Sounds bad. “30 minutes of my life” bad? I guess I’ll never find out.
Being able to ask questions is a bit like transmission still being able to take place: the important factors are not the binary absolutism of existence, but how many and how significantly.
Dunno if it specifically rebuts what’s said in that goldbugger doomie-prep grifter Martenson’s woo-tube clip. I’m not going to waste 30 minutes to watch it to find out.
Not really correct.
Transmission can still take place – yes. The probability of it happening is severely reduced because the immune responses in a vaccinated host kill off a exponential growth in released viruses.
R5 drops down to something like R0.02 even with delta according to the last set of results I looked at.
Basically the only people who get infected are likely to be the unvaccinated. It means that people who can’t take vaccines will keep having to protect themselves. Those who choose to not take the vaccine get a genetic winnowing. Not really any one else’s problem – apart from their family and friends.
Personally I will be pretty unlikely to want to work close to someone who chooses not to vaccinated. They just increase my risks.
As far as I can tell, the only real contraindication for the Pfizer vaccine is allergic history. And even for those unfortunates, if they’re brave enough to risk an anaphylactic reaction in the knowledge that the medical staff around them will be able to safely deal with it, it’s fine to get the vaccine. Or I would hope here in NZ they would get offered one of the alternatives that doesn’t carry that allergic risk.
Immunocompromised people can apparently quite safely get the Pfizer vaccine. There’s no kind of organism replication going on that has to suppressed by a functioning immune system. The injected mRNA just does its thing, breaks down, and the detritus gets cleaned away by our body’s regular garbage disposal system.
It’s just that immunocompromised people are much less likely to get benefit from the vaccine. Since by definition, the vaccine stimulates and trains the immune system, but immunocompromised people have a low to non-functioning immune system. So they are still mostly dependent on the rest of us getting vaccinated for their protection via community immunity.
The other problem with unvaccinated people getting sick is the effect it has on the medical staff that end up trying to care for them. My rellies overseas are now finding it much tougher psychologically trying to keep an unvaccinated covid sufferer alive now that they’ve had the opportunity to get vaccinated and declined. Because that suffering is just so pointlessly stupid and so easily, cheaply, and safely avoidable.
Yeah, I felt that after I wrapped my head around the issue.
The focus for me was a intelligent fellow worker talking to me recently about a meta-study on an alternative treatment for covid-19. I read it and from what he’d said deduced (correctly) that he’d mistaken a reliability of what was measured for a reliability of the effectiveness of the treatment.
Very small sample sizes, a lot of variation in measurement in the studies, inconsistencies in how the treat was delivered, etc etc meant that the authors assessment of the reliability of the instances in the studies only got up to ‘Moderate’, and many were ‘Very Low’. Moderate was OK for data reliability, but it isn’t midway – it is barely acceptable.
The largest aggregate sample size was ~1500 for having had the treatment giving death / non-death (ie everyone in the study). And the change on the statistically expected death results was around 5% inside the sample of all people getting the treatment. Maybe verging on significance for something. But given the way the data was collected – probably more significant for evidence of wishful thinking.
The treatment was been given as a Hail Mary by medical staff who had noting else to give. You’d probably find that aspirin or a source of clean water was more effective. “Coke adds life!” could be the new slogan..
Afterwards I found that personally I would have a personal reluctance to be anyone who thinks like that after I’d been vaccinated. He’d provide a perfect vector for a new variant to infect me, and the probability was that he’d do it over and over again. His obvious wish to avoid the vaccine was likely to be a clear and present danger to my health – and my taxes.
That doesn't surprise me. It felt like much of the data used was like a Peter Singer paper on climate change – designed to confuse the credulous who are irrationally unskeptical and prefer to just jump to conspiracy conclusions.
It appeared that the authors had run entire paragraphs from press releases and websites about ivermectin and Covid-19 through a thesaurus to change key words. “Humorously, this led to them changing ‘severe acute respiratory syndrome’ to ‘extreme intense respiratory syndrome’ on one occasion,” Lawrence said.
The data also looked suspicious to Lawrence, with the raw data apparently contradicting the study protocol on several occasions.
“The authors claimed to have done the study only on 18-80 year olds, but at least three patients in the dataset were under 18,” Lawrence said.
“The authors claimed they conducted the study between the 8th of June and 20th of September 2020, however most of the patients who died were admitted into hospital and died before the 8th of June according to the raw data. The data was also terribly formatted, and includes one patient who left hospital on the non-existent date of 31/06/2020.”
What is the threshold for a second-generation vaccine being considered safe enough? After all, there will be less data on a second generation than a first, simply because it’s newer. Maybe better wait for a third, or fourth generation …
Meanwhile, in the actual world, we’re at about a year from the start of the phase 3 trials for the Pfizer and moderna mRNA vaccines. Meaning we’ve got a year of safety data for thousands of intensely monitored volunteers. We’re at about 6 months from the mass rollout, so we’ve got safety data for hundreds of millions of vaccinated people, with safety monitoring that has now detected several different kinds of “less than ten per million” side effects.
Almost all of those extremely rare vaccine side effects resolve in at most a few weeks without causing permanent damage or disability.
Unlike actual covid, which causes many many long term disabilities (we don’t know how long-term, but definitely many people are still debilitated 18 months after infection) as well as death for about 1% of those infected.
With the mRNA vaccines, it will be transcription ‘code’ to get the body cells to produce fragments of signature virus coating or other characteristics. This gets the immune system to become accustomed to attacking those signatures. This would be a separate booster shot after the original vaccine to target a specific new variant.
No mixed in other biological. Minimal or no updates to the vaccine production, transports or delivery. Mostly what they will be looking for is interactions with other conditions – ie either effectiveness or complications.
A much easier test case using the existing or similar test structures. Targeting populations who are already vaccinated and possibly subject to reinvention with a specific c
variant.
The Pfizer vaccine booster just announced as being developed is just targeting delta. I would guess that if lamda takes off then that will be next.
My comment about second generation being safe enough was aimed at KSaysHi suggesting some unvaccinated people are waiting for more safety information or for a newer purportedly safer vaccine to be released.
From the comments made by academic family and friends that need a deep understanding of cell biochemistry for their science jobs, I have zero concerns about long term safety issues with the mRNA vaccines.
The development of mRNA vaccines over the last few decades has also been long enough and careful enough to cover all the concerns I had when I first heard about the technology. Yes, there were serious obstacles to learn how to overcome, including severely problematic immune system reactions. But those reactions were seen within a very short time after vaccination, and there has been no hint of safety problems popping up months or years after vaccination.
I have zero concerns about long term safety issues with the mRNA vaccines
I’d take them over normal vaccines any time.
I have quibbles about the probable misuses of the technology though. I’d imagine that it will eventually be used as a perfect way to cause unexplained deaths. A lot harder to trace than polonium from an umbrella.
Given we no longer allow low skilled migrant labour in, maybe its time we allowed those here already here to shift from these jobs to others – such as in dairy, or horticulture. Then employers would have to offer these jobs to locals who have the option of moving from job to job, if conditions and wages are not competitive.
listening to a kiwi bank economist predicting wage inflation today and I thought of these low skilled/paid seasonal jobs that would probably require a substitution of improved wages and conditions to attract others available.
A big issue is accommodation as well. Moving for short-term work means you either give up your accommodation where you are or you pay for two lots at the same time. There is a big risk in giving up where you are now that you might not be able to find accommodation when you return home.Most people have little interest in living in a tent/back-packers/caravan for a few months. Cooking meals after a days work becomes problematic as well even if you do do this.Moving for a permanent full-time job is another kettle of fish entirely.
The migrant currently trapped in their job and earning little more than the food power and rent money may welcome the opportunity – seasonal work jobs can lead to permanent employment, and dairy farm jobs come with housing.
The jobs the migrants leave can be filled by locals – albeit the employer would have to improve pay and conditions to attract them.
The migrants may find little left after paying rent in the urban centres – they can at least save in the seasonal work jobs and the dairy farm work often comes with provided housing.
Assuming its an NZ flagged vessel I hope worksafe are investigating this.
As i understand it two crew were allowed to enter NZ and without 14 days quarintine travel to and join the vessel. Thats endangered the entire crew and if one were to die surely whoever is in charge of the boat should be in the gun for prosecution.
Hmm, hired to fish NZ quota? Would worksafe have jurisdiction?
The fact that we let the crew avoid quarantine to meet the vessel shows the influence the fishing lobby have. I feel very sorry for the crew members who have been exposed and infected thanks to irresponsible bosses. If we can prosecute we should.
Interesting how various sites set hurdles for you to jump before they will reveal any clear information. This one with a grey curtain over the page until you comply with something.
If it is Spain, then perhaps it is from the north. IIRR that area has received great concessions and subsidies from the Spanish govt to build fishing vessels which have tended to swamp the fishing industry. I wonder if they then provide jobs for Spanish, especially Catalan crew.
That all Peter chch usually seems to be able to do (in my experience). A lower form of existence who is just intelligent enough recognise that he is very ignorant, is too lazy to do anything about it, and likes having a good persecution fetish.
Generally pays to either be ignored. If you want a bit of a amusement you can spank him so that he can writhe in a foul ecstasy at being patted by a dom (his secret shame). But given his disadvantages (namely his personality), if you’re feeling kind – simply being excluded works.
Of course that is just my opinion. (yes he is usually a troll).
A troll? No. It may appear that i am, as i certainly do disagree with many opinions on here, but I would absolutely agree with the goals of most on here.
It is not, for me, an argument about the goals. Its an argument about the means. If that makes me a troll, well you are wrong. But so be It.
I’m not into spanking, more into whipping, actually.
I don’t care whether you are a troll or not. I do care about the fact that some (…) of your comments are troll-like enough to appear on my radar. I couldn’t possibly comment on a persecution fetish that you might have.
Here’s a tip, more like advice, actually: if you don’t want to appear on the radar of Moderators and/or SYSOP, lift the quality of your comments and make it look like you’re engaging in good faith here, irrespective of whether your opinion is widely agreed or disagreed with (AKA unpopular) here – robust debate is the kaupapa of this site. Put simply: lift your game, thanks.
The choice is yours; the whip is within reach, always.
Incognito. I am no troll. Yes I disagree with many posts on here. I, in my opinion, am a socialist. I, again in my opinion, engage in good faith. Same goals I think, but different means.
But let’s be honest. Many people on TS are a little unrealistic as what might work or stick.
I try to engage in good faith, but some just give abuse in response.
All this talk about whipping and spanking! Well, my partner and I went to a ‘bar’ off K road which sounded nice. The entrance fee seemed a bit steep but we were under drink. Full on sex club. Unbelievable .We enjoyed our time there. Did not partake. But I must, opened my eyes.
The vicious cycle of the climate crisis has merged with a vicious cycle of inequity in the region. Racial disparities in access to shade and air conditioning are increasingly becoming dangerous, even deadly….
…..Farm workers die of heat at roughly 20 times the national rate, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
The antieviction thing has always favored certain elements in our society. They get higher levels of subsidies from those who can’t get social housing. Consequences are experienced by everyone who is nearby but not the cause of the issues and that has got to stop.
The witness alleges he is being subjected to regular nighttime gang intimidation and threats.
He also told Hawke’s Bay Today that Kāinga Ora had told him his request was low priority.
However, a Kāinga Ora spokesperson told Hawke’s Bay Today that the organisation was now “moving quickly to help our customer and provide options from which they can choose to help keep them safe”.
“We’ll continue to work with police on this matter too.”
That’s right….help the tenant to help himself by making choices! How empowering [sarc]
How to knife your ‘clients’ and your very job in the back! A ‘librarian’ sending books owned to be digitised instead of going all-out to support the excellent system we have of reading physical books, the whole literate and skilled community behind it, and the way that books encouraging imagination, discussion, are housed in places that draw communities, and are artifacts that represent humanity and serve it, in a way that bloody tech doesn’t (whether covered in red stuff or not, and of course that description is an oxymoron because tech is bloodless and dead). Stream of consciousness?
I have written a short comment on Daily Review for Mon. 12/7. This went up at 10.22am with awaiting moderation, then vanished so I sent another one after it at 10.37am, same message, has vanished also. Nothing controversial about either of them. So where, what?
Moderation
Moderation is mainly used to control spam comments that do not get caught by the anti-spam tools. This means that you might get caught in it if you use some words, have an IP range that overlaps a spam source, or your IP comes from certain geographical regions.
…
If you get moderated and don’t have a good reason why, don’t get too alarmed. It is probably the spam trap. Usually your message will get approved shortly, but sometimes during weekends and overnight it may take a while.
United States citizens and companies are buying up New Zealand land for farming, forestry and wine-making, an RNZ analysis reveals.
Almost 180,000 hectares of farming land was purchased or leased by foreign interests between 2010 and 2021.
During the 11-year period almost 460,000ha – a little under the size of the Auckland region – shifted out of New Zealand control through purchases, leases or rights to take forestry. For simplicity’s sake, this is referred to as bought land throughout this article.
More than 70,000ha of land was bought for dairying operations and more than 100,000 for farming other types of animals, such as beef, sheep or deer.
It seems that farming entities have control of the country, so no wonder we can’t get anything done for ordinary people, who now can’t even own a tiny bit of land! Perhaps Bill Sutch had to be headed off, with the way that he was encouraging us to make new pathways, go in new directions, explore other options. Think.
State Republican lawmakers around the country are pushing bills — at least one of which has become law — that would give unvaccinated people the same protections as those surrounding race, gender and religion.
If this was happening in countries where vaccinations had plateaued, like Israel, meaning just about everyone that wanted to be vaccinated had already been jabbed, then I’d take a darwinian view of it. But in most of those countries, vaccinations are still happening at a good clip, meaning there’s still lots of people that want to be vaccinated that haven’t got it yet. So opening up to let things run wild in those countries is just barbaric.
Citation please, I couldn’t see anything referring to that in your link.
Also, England, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal which have covid spikes also have high rates of vaccinated persons too… which could mean there’s an association there.
It’s plausible that high vaccination rates might precipitate a premature relaxation (aided and abetted by imprudent leaders) of precautionary behaviours that curb infection transmission, which could in turn contribute to the recent spikes in Covid variant delta infections seen in England, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Greece.
It’s even possible that the act of gathering in vaccination centres might (very slightly) increase transmission from infected to uninfected people.
But is there’s any scientifically plausible way that the Covid-19 vaccines themselves, administered in England, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and Greece, could contribute directly to the recent ‘yikes spikes‘ graphed @12?
They also need to be named, shamed, and excluded have special units built in concrete (hoseable) in industrial areas where they can be kept under curfew at night. simple bedding and facilities suitable for the half-crazed person.
That’s dealt with the present crop. The ones coming forward can be changed by their parents entering a program run under suitable cultural levels that assists parents in their role, helps them as needed, and enables them to have a happy life bringing up children in a kindly and firm way with goals for the parents and little ones for the children, like pocket money for doing tasks as part of family life. This outrageous system actually had been proved to work many decades ago, but has fallen into disuse, now needing revival. And those in the system would be offered free skills training, and on completion a job and income equal to a living wage. Also holidays at adventure camps once or twice a year. Incentives, in-sense-activities! If a significant percentage could be enthused to start this, with parents as role models, in ten years there would be a difference growing exponentiallly.
Disabled kids missing out at local schools is well documented, just as parents paying for extra teacher aide hours is common practice because of the limited resources governments past and present put in to ensuring disabled kids get a fair go.
Where the heck is the Human Rights Commission when it comes to this problem that’s been around now for decades? Governments for years have been saying that disabled children have access to the same learning opportunities as all other students, but we know that’s not true. Schools themselves say they’re woefully under-resourced.
All the rhetoric around how well the system’s working for disabled students shows how far the government’s head is buried in the sand. It beggars belief that despite everything we know this government’s now preventing parents topping up teacher aide hours, as if it isn’t needed. It’s a tragedy, of course, that it’s only the kids of those who can afford to do this who have access to crucial resources, but to now ban parents from doing this shows just how sensitive the government is to the criticisms. The government’s position on this whole issue is just diabolical.
In 2008, IHC lodged a complaint with the Human Rights Commission, arguing that children with a range of disabilities experience discrimination at their local school.
…
n April 2014 IHC’s legal counsel, Frances Joychild QC, filed an amended claim with the Human Rights Review Tribunal.
…
In early 2015, the Human Rights Review Tribunal held a preliminary hearing into the complaint after the Attorney General applied to strike out several of IHC’s claims. Two and a half years later we are still awaiting a decision from that preliminary hearing. Confidential discussions about the complaint between IHC, the Ministry of Education, the Education Review Office, and the Education Council over four days in 2016 failed to reach a settlement.
The legal case is effectively stalled until the preliminary decision is released by the Human Rights Review Tribunal, then IHC will be in a queue for a hearing that may be years away. The delay is because the Tribunal is very thinly resourced and has experienced a huge rise in cases in recent years. Despite IHC raising this backlog with the Minister of Justice, no action has been taken to address it.
It’s preposterous that the government is even defending this. Full access to the curriculum for disabled students is government policy, so surely one would think that when instances of discrimination arise government would welcome guidance on how to combat it. But no, ‘all litigation must be defended even if we agree with the claims made against us’ – such a silly attitude to take. This surely must be a situation where the parties should get the declaration by consent, and then work together to stamp out the discrimination? Anything other than this highlights the government’s two-faced position on disabled kids’ access to education, and the reality of it being quite happy with the status quo.
so SUFW put up a sign saying “women, adult human female” and it gets taken down.
on another post I put up a video clip of a women in California complaining cause a trans women was naked with their penis out in a women’s spa around women and girls.
we as women are supposed to put up with the latter while there is an outcry leading to the removal of a sign with the dictionary definition of women. WTF!
if this concerns you even a little do think of going to the SUFW talk this Thursday 6 30pm at the Michael Fowler centre
It seems that the new aristocrats can push the peasants off their commons again. Sexuality now is not something that you have as a mainstream bodily natural condition, its a matter of choice now in the disintegrating society of the 21st century. Nothing can be relied on that once was sure.
And the fact that Christians and right wingers are said to be involved in SUFW (Speak up For Women) doesn’t lend it lustre, but for once they have a point.
Yes I am aware the private spa was/is inclusive of trans people. I think trans people should be allowed to attend a spa. But not in the women’s only space.
But a lot of women and the mothers of girls were very uncomfortable with a trans women, naked with their penis out in a women’s private space.
Do you not understand why that is? Do you think women and girls just have to suck it up? Why should women have to accommodate to something they are uncomfortable with?
Why can you not understand that it is a private business and so they can have whatever policy they like. They could choose to have no gendered areas. Why should you get to bully them into your way of thinking?
Solkta, I have not been in contact with the Wi spa. So it is incorrect to suggest that I am bullying them.
In NZ under the human rights act, it specifies that women have the right to private change room facilities for public decency and safety.
As a woman I am defending my right for this to persist. And some of women are feeling bullied to give up this human right, should trans activists require us to give up our private spaces.
You are part of the international whinge fest so yes you are indirectly bullying them. But apparently that is OK but not for people with an opposing view to complain to an advertising company.
Afaik California law forces Wi Spa to allow male bodied people into the women’s section if the male bodied person identifies are a woman. I’m still unclear if the trans woman has to have a GRC or can simply say at that reception that they are a woman. I’m guessing in practice it’s the latter. What this means is that if someone in California set up a spa for women only, they would be legally and socially prohibited from excluding male bodied people who ID as women (TW or men).
“They could choose to have no gendered areas.”
Afaik Wi Space separates their spaces by sex not gender, so they already have no gendered spaces. If they had gendered spaces, there’d be a non-binary or GNC space. Which is a not a bad idea alongside single sex spaces.
Obviously being all mixed sex spaces wouldn’t work for a Korean spa that has cultural practices of nakedness segregated by sex. And equally obviously it doesn’t work for many women.
I haven’t been able to figure out what the California statue says exactly, tried reading it myself and couldn’t make sense of it.But if you are saying that TW are allowed entry to the women’s space on the basis of gender not sex, are you saying that TW are not female?
“In a statement to Los Angeles about this weekend’s incident, Wi Spa points to California Civil Code 51 (b), which makes discriminating against trans and other gender non-conforming people in business establishments illegal in the state.”
“(b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.”
…
(e) For purposes of this section:
…
(5) “Sex” includes, but is not limited to, pregnancy, childbirth, or medical conditions related to pregnancy or childbirth. “Sex” also includes, but is not limited to, a person’s gender. “Gender” means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender expression. “Gender expression” means a person’s gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.
(6) “Sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status” includes a perception that the person has any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories or that the person is associated with a person who has, or is perceived to have, any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories.”
Looks like there are no laws to protect single sex spaces.
“There is no specific legislation that mandates for single-sex spaces and there are no laws that protect, for example, single-sex bathrooms or locker rooms in public places. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 has a provision for sex-segregated bathrooms, but the regulatory agency produced regulations on “gender-separated” bathrooms instead.”
That particular stature is basic non-discrimination. So a business isn’t allowed to refuse service on those grounds. Doesn’t say what facilities people are supposed to use.
It looks to me like a bit of the old “not my rule, it’s [the widest possible interpretation of] the law, sorry about that [not really sorry because I wanted it to happen anyway]”. Every bouncer who’s worked a door knows a variation of that one.
Heh. Bit of a language issue there.I suspect (and I can’t emphasise that enough, this just seems to me to be a plausible way out to stop being the battleground of a global political shitfight) that Wi Spa are interpreting that specific legislation to mean that while they might be able to stop “men” going into the “womens'” section, they’re not entitled to discriminate against transmen and transwomen.
However, some websites say that for employees there should be single-occupant gender neutral facilities available for people who want additional privacy, but nobody can be forced to use them. I.e. trans people can use whatever one they want, and if someone has a problem with it then the person with the problem has an alternative.
I was thinking more generally, that if there is no law protecting single sex spaces and there is a law protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sex (assuming Ca legislators still actually know what sex is), then is there anything to stop men from going into women’s spaces?
In the UK, there is law against discrimination but there are also exemptions where warranted. This is what gives legal right to women’s spaces, even excluding TW with a gender recognition cert afaik.
It’s this exemption that Stonewall UK has been lying about in its advice to orgs that it sanctions as trans friendly, and Stonewall has been lobbying to have the exemptions removed. (that’s how I understand it). This is at the heart of the whole shit fight (although not the whole of it)
NZ law seems to be similar but haven’t looked at it closely.
So yes, men can be stopped from going into women’s restrooms. But there would be exceptions to that if your definition of “men” includes transwomen, because that does not match the definition of “men” as a subset of “sex” according to the Californian legislature.
Interesting. Wi Spa might have been right in it being the law (depending on what actually happened).
if we put aside toilets for a moment, and look at other women’s spaces, my reading of the above is that there is no law that says there is an exemption for women from the anti-discrimination laws (except where other laws have been created eg the restroom one) eg women’s refuges or someone running a women’s health group. Men could legally try to access those spaces and not be denied on the basis of sex. This is of course bizarre and it won’t surprise me if I am reading this wrong, but we are talking about the US.
And yes, my understanding is that Wi Spa acted in accordance with Ca law. What I don’t know is whether self ID happens in the Wi Spa reception or if someone has to have a state certification of gender ID. The thing pertinent to NZ here is that no-one currently is going to ask for the certificate at the reception desk, even if they think the person is a man. Self ID as a technical approach to birth cert changes shifts the overton window so that self ID becomes a matter of what the person says in the moment across society. How left wing people can believe this won’t be abused by men is beyond me.
(And as above, crazy fucking language in the Ca legislation).
As you say, there might be other laws or case law that we, as NZ googlers, might not know about.
As for your final point, sure some guy will try it sooner or later. There’s no limit to the arseholery of humanity. But at the same time, using one of the innumerable other ways to refuse service to an individual you don’t like the look of is not discrimination on the basis of gender self-id, especially if your establishment is trans-accepting.
And that’s if one argues that all one needs for gender self-id is for me to yell “I’m a girl now” to go wherever I want. If I did that wearing a three piece suit with not so much as a doctor’s appointment to talk about transitioning or what have you, the honesty of my claim could well be challenged. And being America, I’d be surprised if it hasn’t (especially as at the NZ uni I worked at a local dickhead for years kept trying to run for womens’ rights officer, and complained about sex discrimination because we wouldn’t let him). It’s quite rare for a loophole that obvious to exist for years without being tested and then patched in response to the test.
then they should tell their female customers that they can no longer provide single sex spaces. California law prohibits them from excluding trans women, and any men that ID as a woman, from the women’s space. I’m under the impression that many women don’t know this. Likewise in NZ if the govt passes self ID law without consulting women. We will end up with social changes that most NZers don’t realise is happening. That alone should be a red flag.
The Adult, Human, Female banner is on point about that.
Go Media’s general manager, Simon Teagle, told 1 NEWS it removed the billboard as soon as it started fielding calls from offended New Zealanders.
“We believe it maybe in breach of ASA codes, and therefore the advertising material in breach of our contract. We have subsequently notified the advertiser. We have placed the contract with the advertiser on hold until a clear determination from the ASA is provided.
“Go Media is an inclusive, locally-owned New Zealand business and we support all communities. While we believe in freedom of speech, we do not condone content that upsets our community. We apologise unreservedly for any distress this may have caused anyone, and remedied the situation as soon we could.”
The Conversation is ‘helping’ NZ get informed about sea level rise in a study co-led by Tim Naish and Richard Levy called the NZ SeaRise programme.
These two men are glaciologists and may be looking at the changing earth over the last 40 million years. I suggest that they lack the urgency of those worrying about whether they are going to be hit by a combination of seal level rise, storm surge and increased ground water arising from a heavy rain ‘event’ around their house, and just as importantly on the business decisions of their insurers and their actuaries. However if they can get some good theoretical statistics for the insurers, that will be most useful.
Most people still use the word woman to mean female. In English we don’t usually call women females except in specific situations. I wouldn’t for instance say see those two females standing over there, I’d say see those two women standing over there.
Scratching my head at that. Where’s the dishonesty? Women and trans women, it’s really simple. I want women to be able to retain single sex spaces. I want trans women to have access to their own spaces. I will support them to have that in society.
I’m not sure why you say there is dishonestly in my position when you seem to be presenting a semantic argument around the words female and woman. Maybe I’m missing something?
I’m not absolutist about eg I’m fine with TW using whatever toilet works for them. But we need to have the debate openly about what this means, and how it impacts on women as well as trans people. That’s where the dishonesty is currently, and the attacks on SUFW will just make that worse.
I also want to exclude men (males), from those single sex spaces.
What I and many women are also not willing to do is give up language that we need to talk about our own experiences, especially politically.
The way you are using woman and trans woman does not make sense. Woman is the noun and cis and trans are adjectives, they name an attribute of the noun. Woman is the set and cis woman and trans woman are subsets. If you think the term “woman” should be reserved for females then you should object to the use of “trans woman”. It is really simple, basic level grammar.
it does make sense in that you understood exactly what I meant. As most people will also understand exactly what I meant because that’s how English is used and understood in context.What you are saying is that how I am using language doesn’t suit your politics. If you want to change current use of the English language for political reasons, then stand up and make the argument.
My problem with your position is that what you are saying sits alongside women being told they’re not allowed to talk about being female as well. This is why many women who were once ok with sharing more with trans women, are now insisting on retaining the meaning of the word woman for adult human females. eg refusing to be seen as a subset. Trans woman is a noun.
Maybe you are unaware then of the volatile political context in which you are arguing that woman should no longer mean adult female.
As I said, make the political argument.
My grammar is perfectly understandable and in line with common usage. You are arguing to change that usage, but I’m not yet seeing the argument for why.
‘New Zealander’ is used to mean white person and then for all other varieties an adjective is added.
Ok, but that’s identity not ethnicity. I know very few people that use ‘New Zealander’ to mean white. It’s not used that way in law, media, education, science, medicine, or every day language. Most people I know when talking about biologically female people would use the word woman in most contexts, and this is still the main usage in law, media, education, science, medicine.
And again, if you want to change the meaning of the word woman for political reasons, front up and make the political argument to society at large and let us have a conversation about it. Challenge the no debate position, and let people talk about it.
Simply saying, or just implying, it’s bigotry to not use it the way you want is a democratic fail.
. I know very few people that use ‘New Zealander’ to mean white. It’s not used that way in law, media, education, science, medicine, or every day language.
But it happens enough to occasionally skew data gathered in those fields. Back when using paper forms, “NZ European / Pakeha” scribbled out and “NEW ZEALANDER!!!” carved into the page with biro was not uncommon. And it happened enough on the census in the early oughts that statsnz had to crank out an analysis on it (the rest of the forms mostly matched those of pakeha middle aged male mid-high income small business owners, from what I recall).
But I suspect the parallel isn’t each term’s use in administrative paperwork so match as the use in public by some smaller groups to dogwhistle to the converted and to try to spread their message of alienation.
Solkta and McFlock have explained it adequately. I am no longer prepared to indulge people who want a 101 level conversation about a topic they supposedly know about.
Sacha, you can correct me all you like, but I am sticking with the language I am comfortable with.
I believe biological sex trumps gender ideology. I believe trans gender people deserve the same rights as anyone else, but that doesn’t include the right to have me agree to their language requirements.
I am a biological women. Always have been always will be. I am not a cis women, just a women.
trans used to be referred to as transvestites or trans sexual. I understand they want to be referred to as trans men and women and that is fine by me. They have a right to identify as the opposite gender to their natal sex, no problem.
if a transgender individual asks me to use their pronouns, out of courtesy I would likely do my best to remember to do that. If they demanded I did, maybe not so much, it would depend.
women’s rights to private spaces and to women only sporting competitions are set out in the Human Rights Act 1993 and I will defend those rights vigorously
I have just read a book by Anne Perry set around rape of women and the difficulties of them at that time, in the 1890s, being safe from it, and being able to look for control and justice. because of the deep disgust felt by everybody in society about it, and the way they tended to include the victim in these emotions. In the first fifty or so pages she describes the problem well. It's 'Midnight at Marble Arch' and is quite a complicated plot, with a number of themes.
And to try and understand what women think about sex, there are two novellists specialising in stories which often have a soft porn centre, who seem to be popular, Jude Deveraux and Linda Howard. Men might learn something about women's ideas, and women might ponder on what these books indicate is missing in their lives.
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
She was born 25 years ago today in North Shore hospital. Her eyes were closed tightly shut, her mouth was silently moving. The whole theatre was all quiet intensity as they marked her a 2 on the APGAR test. A one-minute eternity later, she was an 8. The universe was ...
Skeptical Science is partnering with Gigafact to produce fact briefs — bite-sized fact checks of trending claims. This fact brief was written by Sue Bin Park in collaboration with members from our Skeptical Science team. You can submit claims you think need checking via the tipline. Is Antarctica gaining land ice? ...
Images of US students (and others) protesting and setting up tent cities on US university campuses have been broadcast world wide and clearly demonstrate the growing rifts in US society caused by US policy toward Israel and Israel’s prosecution of … Continue reading → ...
Barrie Saunders writes – Dear Paul As the new Minister of Media and Communications, you will be inundated with heaps of free advice and special pleading, all in the national interest of course. For what it’s worth here is my assessment: Traditional broadcasting free to air content through ...
Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its arguments for such a bold reform. ...
Peter Dunne writes – The great nineteenth British Prime Minister, William Gladstone, once observed that “the first essential for a Prime Minister is to be a good butcher.” When a later British Prime Minister, Harold Macmillan, sacked a third of his Cabinet in July 1962, in what became ...
Ele Ludemann writes – New Zealanders had the OECD’s second highest tax increase last year: New Zealanders faced the second-biggest tax raises in the developed world last year, the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) says. The intergovernmental agency said the average change in personal income tax ...
We all know something’s not right with our elections. The spread of misinformation, people being targeted with soundbites and emotional triggers that ignore the facts, even the truth, and influence their votes.The use of technology to produce deep fakes. How can you tell if something is real or not? Can ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Simon Clark. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). This year you will be lied to! Simon Clark helps prebunk some misleading statements you'll hear about climate. The video includes ...
It is all very well cutting the backrooms of public agencies but it may compromise the frontlines. One of the frustrations of the Productivity Commission’s 2017 review of universities is that while it observed that their non-academic staff were increasing faster than their academic staff, it did not bother to ...
Buzz from the Beehive Two speeches delivered by Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters at Anzac Day ceremonies in Turkey are the only new posts on the government’s official website since the PM announced his Cabinet shake-up. In one of the speeches, Peters stated the obvious: we live in a troubled ...
1. Which of these would you not expect to read in The Waikato Invader?a. Luxon is here to do business, don’t you worry about thatb. Mr KPI expects results, and you better believe itc. This decisive man of action is getting me all hot and excitedd. Melissa Lee is how ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Recent extreme weather events showed the importance of a well-functioning insurance system, says Commerce and Consumer Affairs minister Andrew Bayly. ...
By Jo Moir, RNZ News political editor, and Craig McCulloch, deputy political editor New Zealand’s Labour Party is demanding Winston Peters be stood down as Foreign Minister for opening up the government to legal action over his “totally unacceptable” attack on a prominent AUKUS critic. In an interview on RNZ’s ...
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The Wellington-based Reserve Force soldier is now almost three years into his New Zealand Army career with 5th/7th Battalion, Royal New Zealand Infantry Regiment. ...
"The Government needs to release the review immediately as this reckless approach to change risks disjointed decision making and creates more distress and uncertainty for staff," Fitzsimons said. ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Jeremiah Manele has been elected Prime Minister of Solomon Islands, polling 31 votes to 18 over rival candidate and former opposition leader Mathew Wale with one abstention. The final result of the election by secret ballot was announced by the Governor-General, Sir David Vunagi, ...
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The NZQA proposal released to staff today would involve a net loss of 35 roles. There are 66 roles being disestablished with 13 of those currently vacant, and 31 new roles proposed, said Fleur Fitzsimons Public Service Association Te Pūkenga Here Tikanga ...
Alex Casey talks to Loren Taylor, the writer, director and star of new film The Moon is Upside Down, about assembling her dream ensemble cast, toilet paper pads and turning literal dreams into reality. There’s a moment in The Moon is Upside Down where frazzled anaesthetist Briar (Loren Taylor) gets ...
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Workers at a major ASB contact centre in Auckland have voted to take strike action and withdraw their labour following disappointing pay negotiations with the employer and an "offer" to workers that would leave them worse off than the previous year. ...
As the government tries to get the country back on track with a school phone ban, Tara Ward has an idea for where they should turn their attention to next.New Zealand students returned to school on Monday morning, but their cellphones did not. The government’s new phone ban began ...
The Labour Party is demanding Peters be stood down, saying "he's embarrassed the country" with a "totally unacceptable" attack on a prominent AUKUS critic. ...
The Inter-Parliamentary Alliance, whose members were victims of a China-backed cyber attack, is discussing forming a standing committee to deal with foreign influence. ...
The PSA is concerned that the voluntary redundancies being offered to staff by Stats NZ will impact on the agency’s ability to deliver on its core functions. ...
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By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor Police in Solomon Islands are on high alert ahead of the election of the prime minister today. The two candidates for the top job are former foreign affairs minister Jeremiah Manele at the head of the Coalition for National Unity and Transformation, which is ...
He’s fine but it feels like I’m losing a friend and it’s making me bitter. How do I say ‘enough is enough’? Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nzHey Hera,I’ve recently moved in with a girlfriend, her partner Steve, and his friend. We all live in a lovely little house. ...
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The campaign will engage the community and encourage submissions on the bill to the New Zealand government by the closing submission deadline of Friday 31st of May 2024 4pm. ...
The paper raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand's political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency plays in that. ...
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Two decades ago this week, a controversial law that attempted to define ownership of the foreshore and seabed prompted a formidable display of outrage and kōtahitanga as 15,000 marched to parliament. Jamie Tahana looks back.‘Hīkoi, hīkoi,” they chanted by the thousands as the biggest Māori march in a generation ...
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Responding to the long-awaited release of judges’ special allowances, including free air travel and hotels for spouses, generous sabbaticals, and access to limousines, Taxpayers’ Union spokesman Alex Murphy said: “In what world does your employer ...
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Lawyers representing two iwi as well as the Māori Women’s Welfare League on Wednesday asked the Court of Appeal to overturn last week’s High Court decision on the Waitangi Tribunal’s decision to summons Children’s Minister Karen Chhour. The Tribunal is currently investigating the Government’s decision to repeal section 7AA of ...
Pick your favourite;
A: First billionaire in space
Or,
B: First dog on the moon
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/09/i-hate-to-say-it-but-it-looks-like-the-age-of-fossil-fuels-will-end-in-the-next-few-years?
I thought all the front line people were supposed to be vaccinated months ago? Why is it taking so long when the border is so important. Simple solution is when employees turn up to start their shift, if they can’t show anything to say they are vaccinated, then they are sent home on unpaid leave.
Covid 19 coronavirus: Securing the weakness at the border … by October – NZ Herald
Complacency.
Most kiwis seem to have this view that we are happy to wait because COVID hasn’t got into the community. I don’t really know anyone who is overly anxious to get it. Its simply a case of when its my turn, I will. Fucking crazy view but thats New Zealand for you.
But I agree. It should simply be mandatory for border workers.
Knowing all the reasons why frontline workers are not vaccinated is what I want to know.
Is it being redeployed, not wanting the vaccine, the roll out, being absent, complacency?
The vaccine is not 100 per cent.
If you’d taken the trouble to watch the PMs post cabinet news conference rather than eagerly consume the pure anti-government propaganda from the Herald your questions would be answered.
The ZB Taliban at the Herald is running a stridently nakedly anti-government agenda, I wonder how the likes of Simon Wilson (who utterly excoriates national in todays paper https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/simon-wilson-judith-collins-leadership-is-1-year-old-and-its-time-her-party-grows-up/5W6IB5MNXBNKWEYHHHZTY2UINI/ – paywalled) can square working for the paper these days.
It was claimed by someone on Q&A (I think) that a lot of those not vaccinated are casual port workers. I don’t know how it works, but Covid has likely reduced the number of ships entering our smaller ports so some of these people may not have been working on the wharves for some time. Hence they have missed vaccination opportunities.
Just a possible reason.
Could just be waiting for the next generation vaccine in order to lower the risk to themselves. Nothing wrong with putting yourself first, especially when we know that in the unlikely event things do go wrong you have no insurance cover and a really shit welfare system for the most dependent (mildly impaired are treated much better).
Nothing wrong with putting yourself first, indeed. As the scripture says:
Our current mRNA vaccine doesn’t confer sterilised immunity, meaning transmission can still take place so any community benefit is highly questionable. Here is an actual expert (more like an expert of experts imho) talking about just how risky that strategy could be.
Highly questionable, huh. Underlining and everything, too. Sounds bad. “30 minutes of my life” bad? I guess I’ll never find out.
Being able to ask questions is a bit like transmission still being able to take place: the important factors are not the binary absolutism of existence, but how many and how significantly.
An expose of some of vanden Bossche’s dodgy claims.
https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-critical-thinking-pseudoscience/doomsday-prophecy-dr-geert-vanden-bossche
Dunno if it specifically rebuts what’s said in that goldbugger doomie-prep grifter Martenson’s woo-tube clip. I’m not going to waste 30 minutes to watch it to find out.
Not really correct.
Transmission can still take place – yes. The probability of it happening is severely reduced because the immune responses in a vaccinated host kill off a exponential growth in released viruses.
R5 drops down to something like R0.02 even with delta according to the last set of results I looked at.
Basically the only people who get infected are likely to be the unvaccinated. It means that people who can’t take vaccines will keep having to protect themselves. Those who choose to not take the vaccine get a genetic winnowing. Not really any one else’s problem – apart from their family and friends.
Personally I will be pretty unlikely to want to work close to someone who chooses not to vaccinated. They just increase my risks.
As far as I can tell, the only real contraindication for the Pfizer vaccine is allergic history. And even for those unfortunates, if they’re brave enough to risk an anaphylactic reaction in the knowledge that the medical staff around them will be able to safely deal with it, it’s fine to get the vaccine. Or I would hope here in NZ they would get offered one of the alternatives that doesn’t carry that allergic risk.
Immunocompromised people can apparently quite safely get the Pfizer vaccine. There’s no kind of organism replication going on that has to suppressed by a functioning immune system. The injected mRNA just does its thing, breaks down, and the detritus gets cleaned away by our body’s regular garbage disposal system.
It’s just that immunocompromised people are much less likely to get benefit from the vaccine. Since by definition, the vaccine stimulates and trains the immune system, but immunocompromised people have a low to non-functioning immune system. So they are still mostly dependent on the rest of us getting vaccinated for their protection via community immunity.
The other problem with unvaccinated people getting sick is the effect it has on the medical staff that end up trying to care for them. My rellies overseas are now finding it much tougher psychologically trying to keep an unvaccinated covid sufferer alive now that they’ve had the opportunity to get vaccinated and declined. Because that suffering is just so pointlessly stupid and so easily, cheaply, and safely avoidable.
Yeah, I felt that after I wrapped my head around the issue.
The focus for me was a intelligent fellow worker talking to me recently about a meta-study on an alternative treatment for covid-19. I read it and from what he’d said deduced (correctly) that he’d mistaken a reliability of what was measured for a reliability of the effectiveness of the treatment.
Very small sample sizes, a lot of variation in measurement in the studies, inconsistencies in how the treat was delivered, etc etc meant that the authors assessment of the reliability of the instances in the studies only got up to ‘Moderate’, and many were ‘Very Low’. Moderate was OK for data reliability, but it isn’t midway – it is barely acceptable.
The largest aggregate sample size was ~1500 for having had the treatment giving death / non-death (ie everyone in the study). And the change on the statistically expected death results was around 5% inside the sample of all people getting the treatment. Maybe verging on significance for something. But given the way the data was collected – probably more significant for evidence of wishful thinking.
The treatment was been given as a Hail Mary by medical staff who had noting else to give. You’d probably find that aspirin or a source of clean water was more effective. “Coke adds life!” could be the new slogan..
Afterwards I found that personally I would have a personal reluctance to be anyone who thinks like that after I’d been vaccinated. He’d provide a perfect vector for a new variant to infect me, and the probability was that he’d do it over and over again. His obvious wish to avoid the vaccine was likely to be a clear and present danger to my health – and my taxes.
I saw that the major contributor paper to that meta study just got redacted over what essentially looks like made up data.
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns
That doesn't surprise me. It felt like much of the data used was like a Peter Singer paper on climate change – designed to confuse the credulous who are irrationally unskeptical and prefer to just jump to conspiracy conclusions.
What is the threshold for a second-generation vaccine being considered safe enough? After all, there will be less data on a second generation than a first, simply because it’s newer. Maybe better wait for a third, or fourth generation …
Meanwhile, in the actual world, we’re at about a year from the start of the phase 3 trials for the Pfizer and moderna mRNA vaccines. Meaning we’ve got a year of safety data for thousands of intensely monitored volunteers. We’re at about 6 months from the mass rollout, so we’ve got safety data for hundreds of millions of vaccinated people, with safety monitoring that has now detected several different kinds of “less than ten per million” side effects.
Almost all of those extremely rare vaccine side effects resolve in at most a few weeks without causing permanent damage or disability.
Unlike actual covid, which causes many many long term disabilities (we don’t know how long-term, but definitely many people are still debilitated 18 months after infection) as well as death for about 1% of those infected.
With the mRNA vaccines, it will be transcription ‘code’ to get the body cells to produce fragments of signature virus coating or other characteristics. This gets the immune system to become accustomed to attacking those signatures. This would be a separate booster shot after the original vaccine to target a specific new variant.
No mixed in other biological. Minimal or no updates to the vaccine production, transports or delivery. Mostly what they will be looking for is interactions with other conditions – ie either effectiveness or complications.
A much easier test case using the existing or similar test structures. Targeting populations who are already vaccinated and possibly subject to reinvention with a specific c
variant.
The Pfizer vaccine booster just announced as being developed is just targeting delta. I would guess that if lamda takes off then that will be next.
My comment about second generation being safe enough was aimed at KSaysHi suggesting some unvaccinated people are waiting for more safety information or for a newer purportedly safer vaccine to be released.
From the comments made by academic family and friends that need a deep understanding of cell biochemistry for their science jobs, I have zero concerns about long term safety issues with the mRNA vaccines.
The development of mRNA vaccines over the last few decades has also been long enough and careful enough to cover all the concerns I had when I first heard about the technology. Yes, there were serious obstacles to learn how to overcome, including severely problematic immune system reactions. But those reactions were seen within a very short time after vaccination, and there has been no hint of safety problems popping up months or years after vaccination.
I’d take them over normal vaccines any time.
I have quibbles about the probable misuses of the technology though. I’d imagine that it will eventually be used as a perfect way to cause unexplained deaths. A lot harder to trace than polonium from an umbrella.
So aprox 5% are not yet vaccinated? New employees, those who can not? seems pretty good really Jimmy.
Pigs in Space
[TheStandard: A moderator moved this comment to Open Mike as being off topic or irrelevant in the post it was made in. Be more careful in future.]
Given we no longer allow low skilled migrant labour in, maybe its time we allowed those here already here to shift from these jobs to others – such as in dairy, or horticulture. Then employers would have to offer these jobs to locals who have the option of moving from job to job, if conditions and wages are not competitive.
listening to a kiwi bank economist predicting wage inflation today and I thought of these low skilled/paid seasonal jobs that would probably require a substitution of improved wages and conditions to attract others available.
A big issue is accommodation as well. Moving for short-term work means you either give up your accommodation where you are or you pay for two lots at the same time. There is a big risk in giving up where you are now that you might not be able to find accommodation when you return home.Most people have little interest in living in a tent/back-packers/caravan for a few months. Cooking meals after a days work becomes problematic as well even if you do do this.Moving for a permanent full-time job is another kettle of fish entirely.
The migrant currently trapped in their job and earning little more than the food power and rent money may welcome the opportunity – seasonal work jobs can lead to permanent employment, and dairy farm jobs come with housing.
The jobs the migrants leave can be filled by locals – albeit the employer would have to improve pay and conditions to attract them.
The migrants may find little left after paying rent in the urban centres – they can at least save in the seasonal work jobs and the dairy farm work often comes with provided housing.
Yesty arvo on RNZ, there was a great interview with Kasey Edwards about raising girls who will like themselves.
Most of what I heard can be applied to boys.
What is proposed builds self regard and resilience (something that seems to be unfashionable in parenting nowadays).
Sorry, hard to link via my batfone.
Sounds like a good idea!! https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/afternoons/audio/2018803627/raising-girls-who-like-themselves-with-kasey-edwards
Thanks Grey.
This is it. This shitty little rust bucket is what we’re jeopardising our Covid free country for:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/446778/covid-19-13-more-positive-cases-on-quarantined-fishing-vessel-viking-bay
13 plus 2 positive cases – how many crew on that rust bucket? What a miserable existence..
15 in total now tested positive
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-health-officials-to-give-update-as-13-mariners-test-positive/GQKVJPA6VHLTWVTGNNB4SZD7MU/
Assuming its an NZ flagged vessel I hope worksafe are investigating this.
As i understand it two crew were allowed to enter NZ and without 14 days quarintine travel to and join the vessel. Thats endangered the entire crew and if one were to die surely whoever is in charge of the boat should be in the gun for prosecution.
No – Spain. https://www.marinetraffic.com/en/ais/details/ships/shipid:3434693/mmsi:224342000/imo:9221516/vessel:VIKING_BAY
Hmm, hired to fish NZ quota? Would worksafe have jurisdiction?
The fact that we let the crew avoid quarantine to meet the vessel shows the influence the fishing lobby have. I feel very sorry for the crew members who have been exposed and infected thanks to irresponsible bosses. If we can prosecute we should.
And there is another one – Spanish flagged Playa Zahara.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125732764/ship-due-to-arrive-at-port-taranaki-with-crew-suffering-from-flulike-illness
Interesting how various sites set hurdles for you to jump before they will reveal any clear information. This one with a grey curtain over the page until you comply with something.
If it is Spain, then perhaps it is from the north. IIRR that area has received great concessions and subsidies from the Spanish govt to build fishing vessels which have tended to swamp the fishing industry. I wonder if they then provide jobs for Spanish, especially Catalan crew.
I guess the extreme left ‘No Borders’ concept is dead then.
I guess that you’re trolling.
That all Peter chch usually seems to be able to do (in my experience). A lower form of existence who is just intelligent enough recognise that he is very ignorant, is too lazy to do anything about it, and likes having a good persecution fetish.
Generally pays to either be ignored. If you want a bit of a amusement you can spank him so that he can writhe in a foul ecstasy at being patted by a dom (his secret shame). But given his disadvantages (namely his personality), if you’re feeling kind – simply being excluded works.
Of course that is just my opinion. (yes he is usually a troll).
Spank him? Interesting I have never tried that.
A troll? No. It may appear that i am, as i certainly do disagree with many opinions on here, but I would absolutely agree with the goals of most on here.
It is not, for me, an argument about the goals. Its an argument about the means. If that makes me a troll, well you are wrong. But so be It.
I’m not into spanking, more into whipping, actually.
I don’t care whether you are a troll or not. I do care about the fact that some (…) of your comments are troll-like enough to appear on my radar. I couldn’t possibly comment on a persecution fetish that you might have.
Here’s a tip, more like advice, actually: if you don’t want to appear on the radar of Moderators and/or SYSOP, lift the quality of your comments and make it look like you’re engaging in good faith here, irrespective of whether your opinion is widely agreed or disagreed with (AKA unpopular) here – robust debate is the kaupapa of this site. Put simply: lift your game, thanks.
The choice is yours; the whip is within reach, always.
Incognito. I am no troll. Yes I disagree with many posts on here. I, in my opinion, am a socialist. I, again in my opinion, engage in good faith. Same goals I think, but different means.
But let’s be honest. Many people on TS are a little unrealistic as what might work or stick.
I try to engage in good faith, but some just give abuse in response.
Whipping? See my next post!
All this talk about whipping and spanking! Well, my partner and I went to a ‘bar’ off K road which sounded nice. The entrance fee seemed a bit steep but we were under drink. Full on sex club. Unbelievable .We enjoyed our time there. Did not partake. But I must, opened my eyes.
I have had time to think. I will forever leave TS. I see now that TS Sees ‘democracy ‘pr debate or dissenting views as a threat, not an opportunity
All the best, in the extremist void that will forever be limited to shouting that noone listened to
Kia kaha
‘
Saharafornication
The antieviction thing has always favored certain elements in our society. They get higher levels of subsidies from those who can’t get social housing. Consequences are experienced by everyone who is nearby but not the cause of the issues and that has got to stop.
That’s right….help the tenant to help himself by making choices! How empowering [sarc]
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/hawkes-bay-kainga-ora-tenant-nails-windows-shut-to-protect-himself-from-gang-intimidation/JMDJKAHIJXH56LZQVYFSWX2NRE/
National Library sending 600,000 books to the Philippines to be digitised
http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=137587 Real books vs Pixels
How to knife your ‘clients’ and your very job in the back! A ‘librarian’ sending books owned to be digitised instead of going all-out to support the excellent system we have of reading physical books, the whole literate and skilled community behind it, and the way that books encouraging imagination, discussion, are housed in places that draw communities, and are artifacts that represent humanity and serve it, in a way that bloody tech doesn’t (whether covered in red stuff or not, and of course that description is an oxymoron because tech is bloodless and dead). Stream of consciousness?
Totally agree Grey. Digital books are great for reference or technical things, but not for ‘reading’.
Can read and immerse oneself in a physical book, but digital? Not really.
Meh, the comments are more informative than that article. Good move, IMO, and for the record, I love real books.
I have written a short comment on Daily Review for Mon. 12/7. This went up at 10.22am with awaiting moderation, then vanished so I sent another one after it at 10.37am, same message, has vanished also. Nothing controversial about either of them. So where, what?
Patience is a virtue.
https://thestandard.org.nz/policy/#moderation
Are we there yet? Are we at the hopeless bottom yet? Are we at the stage where we realise there is a serious problem yet?
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/whoseatingnewzealand/446687/us-buying-up-our-primary-industries
United States citizens and companies are buying up New Zealand land for farming, forestry and wine-making, an RNZ analysis reveals.
Almost 180,000 hectares of farming land was purchased or leased by foreign interests between 2010 and 2021.
During the 11-year period almost 460,000ha – a little under the size of the Auckland region – shifted out of New Zealand control through purchases, leases or rights to take forestry. For simplicity’s sake, this is referred to as bought land throughout this article.
More than 70,000ha of land was bought for dairying operations and more than 100,000 for farming other types of animals, such as beef, sheep or deer.
It seems that farming entities have control of the country, so no wonder we can’t get anything done for ordinary people, who now can’t even own a tiny bit of land! Perhaps Bill Sutch had to be headed off, with the way that he was encouraging us to make new pathways, go in new directions, explore other options. Think.
Barking.
State Republican lawmakers around the country are pushing bills — at least one of which has become law — that would give unvaccinated people the same protections as those surrounding race, gender and religion.
https://www.axios.com/republicans-coronavirus-vaccines-discrimination-law-states-533503fb-fa83-43d0-bd51-2d614483d241.html
Way to show Chyyy-nuh who’s boss! They don’t need no stinkin’ protection from the Chyyy-nuh virus!
GOP class. (vile human, nsfw)
https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1414734401439768578
Yeah, you wouldn’t want to drive near her. For starters, she’s on the wrong side of the road that she’s not paying any attention to.
Or maybe she just can’t post the video the right way around.
Yikes.
https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1413931514954489860
Tory scum.
https://twitter.com/allthecitizens/status/1413599090680770566
One could say he’s also de-facto promoting a level of racism that no leader should condone.
English fans booing the knee being taken by players Blojo referred to as ‘gesture politics’ so as to not upset his base.
It’s almost entirely among the unvaccinated. Some of whom are younger than the youngest age that vaccines have been approved for.
https://www.euronews.com/2021/07/03/european-nations-scramble-to-vaccinate-citizens-as-delta-variant-cases-surge
If this was happening in countries where vaccinations had plateaued, like Israel, meaning just about everyone that wanted to be vaccinated had already been jabbed, then I’d take a darwinian view of it. But in most of those countries, vaccinations are still happening at a good clip, meaning there’s still lots of people that want to be vaccinated that haven’t got it yet. So opening up to let things run wild in those countries is just barbaric.
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
Citation please, I couldn’t see anything referring to that in your link.
Also, England, Spain, Netherlands, Portugal which have covid spikes also have high rates of vaccinated persons too… which could mean there’s an association there.
Well, since you’re incapable of finding reliable information yourself, here’s several pieces that touch on it:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/07/08/covid-vaccine-variant-delta-infections-hospitalizations-cdc/7896029002/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/01/spain-records-surge-in-covid-cases-among-unvaccinated-young-people
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/06/17/englands-covid-cases-are-doubling-every-11-days-amid-surge-among-young-and-unvaccinated-study-finds/?sh=6e31e8aef294
Search terms you could use include covid breakthrough cases, or covid surge unvaccinated.
It’s plausible that high vaccination rates might precipitate a premature relaxation (aided and abetted by imprudent leaders) of precautionary behaviours that curb infection transmission, which could in turn contribute to the recent spikes in Covid variant delta infections seen in England, Spain, Portugal, Netherlands and Greece.
It’s even possible that the act of gathering in vaccination centres might (very slightly) increase transmission from infected to uninfected people.
But is there’s any scientifically plausible way that the Covid-19 vaccines themselves, administered in England, Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands and Greece, could contribute directly to the recent ‘yikes spikes‘ graphed @12?
Some people are not fit to be landlords. They should name and shame the landlord.
Auckland landlord who called tenant a ‘bloody Māori’ must pay $8900 in damages | Stuff.co.nz
Not sure why but I don’t seem to be able to paste links anymore.
True, but some tenants are not fit to be tenants. They also need to be named, shamed, and excluded.
Yes, let’s actively make more people unhoused by excluding them from rentals. /s
People don’t need to be landlords, but everyone needs somewhere to live.
All people living in NZ have the human right to adequate housing. What you’re proposing would contravene this human right.
Are you suggesting that there is no circumstance where a landlord cannot exclude someone a tenancy (irrespective of who that landlord may be) ?
No
Umm. What’s left below tenant in the hierarchy of housing?
The street, I guess.
They also need to be named, shamed, and excluded have special units built in concrete (hoseable) in industrial areas where they can be kept under curfew at night. simple bedding and facilities suitable for the half-crazed person.
That’s dealt with the present crop. The ones coming forward can be changed by their parents entering a program run under suitable cultural levels that assists parents in their role, helps them as needed, and enables them to have a happy life bringing up children in a kindly and firm way with goals for the parents and little ones for the children, like pocket money for doing tasks as part of family life. This outrageous system actually had been proved to work many decades ago, but has fallen into disuse, now needing revival. And those in the system would be offered free skills training, and on completion a job and income equal to a living wage. Also holidays at adventure camps once or twice a year. Incentives, in-sense-activities! If a significant percentage could be enthused to start this, with parents as role models, in ten years there would be a difference growing exponentiallly.
I agree Peter, tenants that purposely trash houses should be named and shamed and excluded from other rentals.
I’ll have a look at it soonish. Any day now my head will revert from last weeks bug and switch from birdbrain to crazy good programmer again. 😈
Disabled kids missing out at local schools is well documented, just as parents paying for extra teacher aide hours is common practice because of the limited resources governments past and present put in to ensuring disabled kids get a fair go.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/education/125734372/boys-teacher-aide-cut-off-after-parents-told-theyre-not-allowed-to-fund-it
Where the heck is the Human Rights Commission when it comes to this problem that’s been around now for decades? Governments for years have been saying that disabled children have access to the same learning opportunities as all other students, but we know that’s not true. Schools themselves say they’re woefully under-resourced.
All the rhetoric around how well the system’s working for disabled students shows how far the government’s head is buried in the sand. It beggars belief that despite everything we know this government’s now preventing parents topping up teacher aide hours, as if it isn’t needed. It’s a tragedy, of course, that it’s only the kids of those who can afford to do this who have access to crucial resources, but to now ban parents from doing this shows just how sensitive the government is to the criticisms. The government’s position on this whole issue is just diabolical.
Where the heck is the Human Rights Commission
Too busy making friends with the gangs. Want some money from this government? Join a gang.
I see that you’re a fully patched gang member of the Troll Mob.
Govts are very comfortable with HRC delays. https://ihc.org.nz/ihcs-education-complaint
I think this might be the result of that preliminary hearing?
http://www.nzlii.org/cgi-bin/download.cgi/cgi-bin/download.cgi/download/nz/cases/NZHRRT/2020/47.pdf
It’s preposterous that the government is even defending this. Full access to the curriculum for disabled students is government policy, so surely one would think that when instances of discrimination arise government would welcome guidance on how to combat it. But no, ‘all litigation must be defended even if we agree with the claims made against us’ – such a silly attitude to take. This surely must be a situation where the parties should get the declaration by consent, and then work together to stamp out the discrimination? Anything other than this highlights the government’s two-faced position on disabled kids’ access to education, and the reality of it being quite happy with the status quo.
Yes, I’m not clear what precedent they believe they are defending this time. Immoral.
https://rdln.wordpress.com/2021/07/13/women-will-not-be-silenced/
so SUFW put up a sign saying “women, adult human female” and it gets taken down.
on another post I put up a video clip of a women in California complaining cause a trans women was naked with their penis out in a women’s spa around women and girls.
we as women are supposed to put up with the latter while there is an outcry leading to the removal of a sign with the dictionary definition of women. WTF!
if this concerns you even a little do think of going to the SUFW talk this Thursday 6 30pm at the Michael Fowler centre
A private spa and a private media company find your ideas offensive, so what.
Anker
It seems that the new aristocrats can push the peasants off their commons again. Sexuality now is not something that you have as a mainstream bodily natural condition, its a matter of choice now in the disintegrating society of the 21st century. Nothing can be relied on that once was sure.
And the fact that Christians and right wingers are said to be involved in SUFW (Speak up For Women) doesn’t lend it lustre, but for once they have a point.
The private spa was/is inclusive of trans people Anker.
Yes I am aware the private spa was/is inclusive of trans people. I think trans people should be allowed to attend a spa. But not in the women’s only space.
But a lot of women and the mothers of girls were very uncomfortable with a trans women, naked with their penis out in a women’s private space.
Do you not understand why that is? Do you think women and girls just have to suck it up? Why should women have to accommodate to something they are uncomfortable with?
Why can you not understand that it is a private business and so they can have whatever policy they like. They could choose to have no gendered areas. Why should you get to bully them into your way of thinking?
Solkta, I have not been in contact with the Wi spa. So it is incorrect to suggest that I am bullying them.
In NZ under the human rights act, it specifies that women have the right to private change room facilities for public decency and safety.
As a woman I am defending my right for this to persist. And some of women are feeling bullied to give up this human right, should trans activists require us to give up our private spaces.
You are part of the international whinge fest so yes you are indirectly bullying them. But apparently that is OK but not for people with an opposing view to complain to an advertising company.
Afaik California law forces Wi Spa to allow male bodied people into the women’s section if the male bodied person identifies are a woman. I’m still unclear if the trans woman has to have a GRC or can simply say at that reception that they are a woman. I’m guessing in practice it’s the latter. What this means is that if someone in California set up a spa for women only, they would be legally and socially prohibited from excluding male bodied people who ID as women (TW or men).
“They could choose to have no gendered areas.”
Afaik Wi Space separates their spaces by sex not gender, so they already have no gendered spaces. If they had gendered spaces, there’d be a non-binary or GNC space. Which is a not a bad idea alongside single sex spaces.
Obviously being all mixed sex spaces wouldn’t work for a Korean spa that has cultural practices of nakedness segregated by sex. And equally obviously it doesn’t work for many women.
They are obviously doing by gender if they allow a woman with a penis in the women’s area.
I haven’t been able to figure out what the California statue says exactly, tried reading it myself and couldn’t make sense of it.But if you are saying that TW are allowed entry to the women’s space on the basis of gender not sex, are you saying that TW are not female?
Maybe someone else can make sense of this.
“In a statement to Los Angeles about this weekend’s incident, Wi Spa points to California Civil Code 51 (b), which makes discriminating against trans and other gender non-conforming people in business establishments illegal in the state.”
https://www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/wi-spa-video/
“(b) All persons within the jurisdiction of this state are free and equal, and no matter what their sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status are entitled to the full and equal accommodations, advantages, facilities, privileges, or services in all business establishments of every kind whatsoever.”
…
(e) For purposes of this section:
…
(5) “Sex” includes, but is not limited to, pregnancy, childbirth, or medical conditions related to pregnancy or childbirth. “Sex” also includes, but is not limited to, a person’s gender. “Gender” means sex, and includes a person’s gender identity and gender expression. “Gender expression” means a person’s gender-related appearance and behavior whether or not stereotypically associated with the person’s assigned sex at birth.
(6) “Sex, race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin, disability, medical condition, genetic information, marital status, sexual orientation, citizenship, primary language, or immigration status” includes a perception that the person has any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories or that the person is associated with a person who has, or is perceived to have, any particular characteristic or characteristics within the listed categories.”
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=CIV§ionNum=51
Looks like there are no laws to protect single sex spaces.
“There is no specific legislation that mandates for single-sex spaces and there are no laws that protect, for example, single-sex bathrooms or locker rooms in public places. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 has a provision for sex-segregated bathrooms, but the regulatory agency produced regulations on “gender-separated” bathrooms instead.”
https://www.keep-prisons-single-sex.org.uk/california
That particular stature is basic non-discrimination. So a business isn’t allowed to refuse service on those grounds. Doesn’t say what facilities people are supposed to use.
It looks to me like a bit of the old “not my rule, it’s [the widest possible interpretation of] the law, sorry about that [not really sorry because I wanted it to happen anyway]”. Every bouncer who’s worked a door knows a variation of that one.
The closest I’ve found is a rule around single-occupant bathrooms needing to be indicated as all-gender. Maybe there’s something more substantial, maybe not.
does that mean Wi Spa couldn’t stop men from going into the women’s section?
Heh. Bit of a language issue there.I suspect (and I can’t emphasise that enough, this just seems to me to be a plausible way out to stop being the battleground of a global political shitfight) that Wi Spa are interpreting that specific legislation to mean that while they might be able to stop “men” going into the “womens'” section, they’re not entitled to discriminate against transmen and transwomen.
However, some websites say that for employees there should be single-occupant gender neutral facilities available for people who want additional privacy, but nobody can be forced to use them. I.e. trans people can use whatever one they want, and if someone has a problem with it then the person with the problem has an alternative.
I was thinking more generally, that if there is no law protecting single sex spaces and there is a law protecting people from discrimination on the basis of sex (assuming Ca legislators still actually know what sex is), then is there anything to stop men from going into women’s spaces?
In the UK, there is law against discrimination but there are also exemptions where warranted. This is what gives legal right to women’s spaces, even excluding TW with a gender recognition cert afaik.
It’s this exemption that Stonewall UK has been lying about in its advice to orgs that it sanctions as trans friendly, and Stonewall has been lobbying to have the exemptions removed. (that’s how I understand it). This is at the heart of the whole shit fight (although not the whole of it)
NZ law seems to be similar but haven’t looked at it closely.
Dunno about “spaces” generally, but the Ca restroom requirements state “for each sex”. Although your c&p above also includes (but not limited to) “gender” in “sex”.
So yes, men can be stopped from going into women’s restrooms. But there would be exceptions to that if your definition of “men” includes transwomen, because that does not match the definition of “men” as a subset of “sex” according to the Californian legislature.
Interesting. Wi Spa might have been right in it being the law (depending on what actually happened).
if we put aside toilets for a moment, and look at other women’s spaces, my reading of the above is that there is no law that says there is an exemption for women from the anti-discrimination laws (except where other laws have been created eg the restroom one) eg women’s refuges or someone running a women’s health group. Men could legally try to access those spaces and not be denied on the basis of sex. This is of course bizarre and it won’t surprise me if I am reading this wrong, but we are talking about the US.
And yes, my understanding is that Wi Spa acted in accordance with Ca law. What I don’t know is whether self ID happens in the Wi Spa reception or if someone has to have a state certification of gender ID. The thing pertinent to NZ here is that no-one currently is going to ask for the certificate at the reception desk, even if they think the person is a man. Self ID as a technical approach to birth cert changes shifts the overton window so that self ID becomes a matter of what the person says in the moment across society. How left wing people can believe this won’t be abused by men is beyond me.
(And as above, crazy fucking language in the Ca legislation).
As you say, there might be other laws or case law that we, as NZ googlers, might not know about.
As for your final point, sure some guy will try it sooner or later. There’s no limit to the arseholery of humanity. But at the same time, using one of the innumerable other ways to refuse service to an individual you don’t like the look of is not discrimination on the basis of gender self-id, especially if your establishment is trans-accepting.
And that’s if one argues that all one needs for gender self-id is for me to yell “I’m a girl now” to go wherever I want. If I did that wearing a three piece suit with not so much as a doctor’s appointment to talk about transitioning or what have you, the honesty of my claim could well be challenged. And being America, I’d be surprised if it hasn’t (especially as at the NZ uni I worked at a local dickhead for years kept trying to run for womens’ rights officer, and complained about sex discrimination because we wouldn’t let him). It’s quite rare for a loophole that obvious to exist for years without being tested and then patched in response to the test.
then they should tell their female customers that they can no longer provide single sex spaces. California law prohibits them from excluding trans women, and any men that ID as a woman, from the women’s space. I’m under the impression that many women don’t know this. Likewise in NZ if the govt passes self ID law without consulting women. We will end up with social changes that most NZers don’t realise is happening. That alone should be a red flag.
The Adult, Human, Female banner is on point about that.
The media company were find to put the sign up until they got complaints. If they geniunely found the sign offensive they wouldn’t have put it up.
What is so offensive about the dictionary definition of women?
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/anti-trans-billboard-removed-wellingtons-cbd
The Conversation is ‘helping’ NZ get informed about sea level rise in a study co-led by Tim Naish and Richard Levy called the NZ SeaRise programme.
These two men are glaciologists and may be looking at the changing earth over the last 40 million years. I suggest that they lack the urgency of those worrying about whether they are going to be hit by a combination of seal level rise, storm surge and increased ground water arising from a heavy rain ‘event’ around their house, and just as importantly on the business decisions of their insurers and their actuaries. However if they can get some good theoretical statistics for the insurers, that will be most useful.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/446809/significant-number-of-new-zealanders-overestimate-sea-level-rise-and-that-could-stop-them-from-taking-action
https://speakupforwomen.nz/speak-up-for-women-campaigners/
This is who SUFW members are. Not christians or right wingers. Feminists who are committed to women
Thanks for that Anker. It’s ironic that today’s feminists can’t support other women who are just being themselves
It’s not just restricted to today’s feminists. Goes back to at least the 1970s.
Committed to females. At least be honest about that.
Most people still use the word woman to mean female. In English we don’t usually call women females except in specific situations. I wouldn’t for instance say see those two females standing over there, I’d say see those two women standing over there.
We have had this conversation. If you want to exclude trans women from things, then you are campaigning for females. Be honest about it.
Scratching my head at that. Where’s the dishonesty? Women and trans women, it’s really simple. I want women to be able to retain single sex spaces. I want trans women to have access to their own spaces. I will support them to have that in society.
I’m not sure why you say there is dishonestly in my position when you seem to be presenting a semantic argument around the words female and woman. Maybe I’m missing something?
I’m not absolutist about eg I’m fine with TW using whatever toilet works for them. But we need to have the debate openly about what this means, and how it impacts on women as well as trans people. That’s where the dishonesty is currently, and the attacks on SUFW will just make that worse.
I also want to exclude men (males), from those single sex spaces.
What I and many women are also not willing to do is give up language that we need to talk about our own experiences, especially politically.
The way you are using woman and trans woman does not make sense. Woman is the noun and cis and trans are adjectives, they name an attribute of the noun. Woman is the set and cis woman and trans woman are subsets. If you think the term “woman” should be reserved for females then you should object to the use of “trans woman”. It is really simple, basic level grammar.
it does make sense in that you understood exactly what I meant. As most people will also understand exactly what I meant because that’s how English is used and understood in context.What you are saying is that how I am using language doesn’t suit your politics. If you want to change current use of the English language for political reasons, then stand up and make the argument.
My problem with your position is that what you are saying sits alongside women being told they’re not allowed to talk about being female as well. This is why many women who were once ok with sharing more with trans women, are now insisting on retaining the meaning of the word woman for adult human females. eg refusing to be seen as a subset. Trans woman is a noun.
Just because i can understand what you are saying does not mean that i think you are using language in an honest or grammatically coherent way.
I have not said anything about the word female so you can refrain from putting words in my mouth.
Maybe you are unaware then of the volatile political context in which you are arguing that woman should no longer mean adult female.
As I said, make the political argument.
My grammar is perfectly understandable and in line with common usage. You are arguing to change that usage, but I’m not yet seeing the argument for why.
Same dynamic as white people claiming the word ‘New Zealander’ as an ethnicity. Not defensible.
How is it the same? You’re asserting it is but not explaining how.
‘New Zealander’ is used to mean white person and then for all other varieties an adjective is added.
but hey it is a common usage so i guess that makes it OK.
Ok, but that’s identity not ethnicity. I know very few people that use ‘New Zealander’ to mean white. It’s not used that way in law, media, education, science, medicine, or every day language. Most people I know when talking about biologically female people would use the word woman in most contexts, and this is still the main usage in law, media, education, science, medicine.
And again, if you want to change the meaning of the word woman for political reasons, front up and make the political argument to society at large and let us have a conversation about it. Challenge the no debate position, and let people talk about it.
Simply saying, or just implying, it’s bigotry to not use it the way you want is a democratic fail.
But it happens enough to occasionally skew data gathered in those fields. Back when using paper forms, “NZ European / Pakeha” scribbled out and “NEW ZEALANDER!!!” carved into the page with biro was not uncommon. And it happened enough on the census in the early oughts that statsnz had to crank out an analysis on it (the rest of the forms mostly matched those of pakeha middle aged male mid-high income small business owners, from what I recall).
But I suspect the parallel isn’t each term’s use in administrative paperwork so match as the use in public by some smaller groups to dogwhistle to the converted and to try to spread their message of alienation.
Solkta and McFlock have explained it adequately. I am no longer prepared to indulge people who want a 101 level conversation about a topic they supposedly know about.
(seriously, I don’t understand what your argument is here).
There are rules
https://twitter.com/figgled/status/1414813272239263746
Sacha, you can correct me all you like, but I am sticking with the language I am comfortable with.
I believe biological sex trumps gender ideology. I believe trans gender people deserve the same rights as anyone else, but that doesn’t include the right to have me agree to their language requirements.
I am a biological women. Always have been always will be. I am not a cis women, just a women.
trans used to be referred to as transvestites or trans sexual. I understand they want to be referred to as trans men and women and that is fine by me. They have a right to identify as the opposite gender to their natal sex, no problem.
if a transgender individual asks me to use their pronouns, out of courtesy I would likely do my best to remember to do that. If they demanded I did, maybe not so much, it would depend.
women’s rights to private spaces and to women only sporting competitions are set out in the Human Rights Act 1993 and I will defend those rights vigorously
I have just read a book by Anne Perry set around rape of women and the difficulties of them at that time, in the 1890s, being safe from it, and being able to look for control and justice. because of the deep disgust felt by everybody in society about it, and the way they tended to include the victim in these emotions. In the first fifty or so pages she describes the problem well. It's 'Midnight at Marble Arch' and is quite a complicated plot, with a number of themes.
And to try and understand what women think about sex, there are two novellists specialising in stories which often have a soft porn centre, who seem to be popular, Jude Deveraux and Linda Howard. Men might learn something about women's ideas, and women might ponder on what these books indicate is missing in their lives.
Wrong OM?