1. More revelations about Labour stealing from the public purse.
2. More diversionary tactics from Labour sycophants here at the Standard.
3. And more impiortantly…the public further reinforce their belief that Labour could not run a shower let alone a government.
Sort your act out guys, this nation needs a strong opposition, we simply cannot afford another term of Labour lite policies from Neville Key and the Nat’s.
Force Neville back to the right, only then can we hope to build a strong economy, one strong enough to withstand another Labour government (in about nine years)
More visits from well known RWNJs and new posters that we have never heard of before. More incessant chantings of slogans along the lines of “Labour Bad”. More claims that the taking of data from a crippled server was somehow authorised.
No doubt the debate will be heated and no one’s opinions will be changed.
Normally you can put together a fairly reasoned (all be it wrong) argument, I guess even you have been forced to concede that Labour are as guilty as sin when it comes to stealing public funds.
Tell me mate, why is it that you lot think you have the right to steal my money whenever you fancy?
[Blatant trolling. A repeat will not be tolerated. Final warning…RL]
If you ever had any doubts about the Casino nature of the economy as RWNJs want it try this headline from the NY Times this morning..Markets Turn Up Sharply After Release of Retail Data
Apparently the markets gained 1% on news that data was bad BUT not as bad as expected. Go figure. It is the sort of mentality that drives Keys economic vision, pray and hope and talk up what is a very bad story.
Indeed, our primary outputs are going to be highly in demand whilst there is still some liquidity in the world. Commentary from http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ has repeatedly got the indicators right, they suggest the world economy will have increasingly sharp swings up and down with the average being slow decline. Interesting times.
The line indicating value on the graph is OK if you assume unlimited growth and available resources…take the resource availability out consumption comes down, and with it true value.This is what we now face.
I don’t know why bad data, but not as bad as expected, somehow surprised you when the market rallies?
They ‘price in’ what they expect the results of every report will be. Then, if the report comes out as expected, the market barely moves. If it comes out differently, the market will move towards the new position.
Nothing casino-like at all. Simple rational behaviour of markets, really.
Quite simply if I see niceness breaking out amongst political parties in a democracy, then I’d consider that it is time to depart that society.
If the level of mudslinging, vitriol, hate and intolerance we have in our politics is seen as an essential part of a “healthy democracy” it’s no wonder our society has more than a few rough edges.
PeteG, we might want to consider that vitriol and extreme positions go hand in hand with a society under increasing stress. The party that was the last 30 years is over, the “economy”if you can call it that now faces the long slow decline that will parallel resouce depletion (energy in particular). There are no magic bullets, no immediate cure, or way back ever. Its gone. Bleak indeed.
The cosy assumptions of the middle classes are crumbling before their eyes, no financial institution is to be trusted, no long term future based on what we are used to can be trusted. Those who own most are grasping to own more, those with least are getting less. So we will fight one another for the diminishing remains of what is left. Dont expect it to be “nice”, it is too visceral for that.
I guess it might sound a bit strange to some to expect that all our elected reprentatives should actually represent us and work together for the good of the country rather than ignore the people that voted for them, barricade themselves in party factions and try and bring each other down by any means they can think of, more foul than fair.
Doesn’t it seem strange that we seem to accept a “democracy” where the main opposition party doesn’t accept the democrat vote of the election and instead devotes itself to trying to bring the government down?
That sounds like actively encouraged desperate for power sedition to me, not democracy.
Continually trying to bring a government down is, isn’t it?
You know very well I don’t support single party rule. That’s just another of your attempts at devious and blatant misrepresentation.
I support multiple healthy parties who can work together for the good of the country (which they do at select committee level now anyway) but can still have differences and debates on issues.
“You know very well I don’t support single party rule. “
Actually I don’t, Pete. I know you say that, but every time we drill down through your ideas about representation we run into this brick wall that you just don’t seem to be able to see over.
Who’s this “we” you are referring to? Who are you working with?
You don’t give me the impression you want to understand what I think.
You give me the impression you want to eliminate posts you don’t want here. Under favourable protection you try to exclude who you don’t want on the blog.
By “we” I just mean myself and the other commenters who have tried at length to get you to examine your ideas a little more closely. I’m only speaking for myself, but acknowledging that I’m not the only one who has put these questions to you.
Would you like to change the subject again or are you going to try to answer the question now?
I have other things to do sometimes felix, I’m not perpetually in thrall of your quaint manoeverings.
Politicians should be prepared to justify their actions to all voters.
I notice in that exchange that I made it clear (again) that I don’t support a one party state. Most of you “assumptions” there were incorrect, but that’s what you seem to like doing.
I support a multi party state where the parties don’t always try and destroy each other.
A question for you – do you accept that I don’t support a one party state?
And because if I said things like “please can our politicians and their heavies behave a bit more civilly and set a better example” it tends to get ignored.
Parties need jolting out of their self obsession with power at any price. Blogs aid and abet their charade of democracy, aka desparate clinging to power by any means.
Yeah everyone should just shut up and let you* make all the decisions then, for the good of democracy.
*Yes yes, I know I heard you the last time. You have a new and improved method of politics where people you listen to will talk to you and you’ll do what they tell you. Sounds like something I’d hate, sorry.
Pete I have no great love or respect for our parliamentarians, however, in their defense our parliamentary system is set up and designed to be oppositional in nature so as to ensure a positive and negative position on all issues are vigorously debated while this can lead to the childish and hateful behaviour we often seen in parliament it is a reasonable price to pay for having a democracy.
Oppositional is fine, we need that. But I think our parties go much further than “oppositional”.
We can have opposition and denbate without having to resort to the levels of mudslinging, blatant dishonesty and illegality (or stretching the rules to suit) that we get far too much of.
Oh I agree with all that, I was pretty much backing up lprent’s view that if we suddenly had an outbreak of agreement on everything from the politicians we should all be very worried indeed.
I consider that those would be where people are getting killed, tortured, jailed, disappeared or having the shit beaten out of them. When you look outside democracies that is what you see. When you look at sham ‘democracies’ like Fiji, that is what you see. In fact that appears to be the norm for the political process over the centuries.
The penalty cost for having a vaguely democratic system like ours is that you allow minorities and dissidents room to have a voice without getting killed (etc) is that the process is noisy. The noisiness appears to be what you’re objecting to.
I suspect you have lived a sheltered existence and could do to get out more amongst different cultures to see how they handle their political systems. You don’t even have to leave the country. I’d suggest that you do what I did at age 18 and go in the army. The culture was quite different to what I was used to, and soldiers there had a far far clearer appreciation of a free society looked like than you do.
Why can’t Radio NZ leave the Darren Hughes affair alone? This morning they were trying (again) to make Phil Goff look bad over it. Are CT worried that Phil is increasingly like a better alternative than the donkey, et al. Move along.
How is it smear mongering? He was under the influence of something, I didn’t say it was Darren that had anything to do with it. I’m merely pointing out the reason why charges were not laid. This was reported by the way.
[lprent: Whatever it was, I’d guess that you just failed to put in the link. Silly you. But I suspect that you made up your own story and didn’t put in a link to something reputable because it didn’t support you interpretation – right?.
Don’t be daft. If you want to make a statement of fact or insinuation of fact, then you need to support it. Otherwise we’ll treat it as trolling. ]
Crosby Textor – a hybrid organism that infects the brain stem of weak minded egoists who believe that some people are simply better than others because they own more shit.
One typical CT tactic is to provide news organisations with easy access to selective “facts”, specific framing/languaging and acceptable people to interview.
And with news organisations having to do more on less and less, its a quick easy way for them to get some content out there without working too hard.
mickeysavage, is it true that you sent a whiny missive to Peter Goodfellow of National complaining about Cameron Slater and worrying about whether he had your credit card details?
Wouldn’t that be like someone on the right complaining to the Labour party about the antics of someone from The Standard? I’m sure you would agree that the Standard boys and girls cannot be dictated to by Labour Party head office yet you seem to think Cameron Slater can. Truly Bizarre.
Anyway I thought the Labour party has already stated that the credit card information was on another properly protected server and nothing was compromised? Don’t you trust the Labour party hierarchy on this?
People have done that a couple of times to us as well.
However, the National party’s IP’s are all over the access logs long before Slater touched it. It would appear that the National party could have a copies of some Labour party data, and it looks highly likely that someone in the National Party tipped off their poodle. So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.
But I suggest you look at the Privacy Act. It has some interesting provisions for organisations having to disclose any information that they hold on individuals.
So is Cameron working for ACT or National ……….. or is he actually responsible for 9/11?
Perhaps he’s just a political junkie who revels in poking opposing political junkies, politicians and political parties with a stick ……… seems to be good therapy for him.
I bet if the question was: “Would you support a new $400m investigation into WTC7 collapse?” the answer would have been a lot more negative.
In other words, if you give stuff away for free, even if it’s stuff people don’t really care about, they’ll gladly accept it. If you charge them for it, you’ll get a low fewer takers.
ROFL, Fuck, rare earth man talk about a warped argument.
I’ll tell you what; if the choice is let’s get to the bottom of why a perfectly well build 47 story steel framed high rise collapsed after only minor office fires into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds breaking all Newtons laws of motion for a mere $400 million before we bankrupt ourselves attacking Afghanistan and Iraq considering the fact that they spend $ 40 million on the Lewinski/Clinton case (to find out whether he lied under oath about screwing the girl) I’m sure NYers would choose the investigation into the collapse of building 7 no problem.
Here is the collapse for those of you who didn’t know about the third building collapsing.
Even NIST had no explanation as to why this happened and let’s face it it never happened before or after 911.
More than 1500 Architects and Engineers want to know why it happened too. If only to be able to prevent it from happening another time.
This would be round about the same number of supposed “Architects and Engineers”, (including a high number of students it must be stated), that has been claimed by that same website for the past few years.
If you must use the appeal to authority and numbers logical fallacy to bolster your argument it would be better if you could actually show that the numbers supporting these wacky ideas are actually growing significantly over time rather than stagnating.
no Cowboy hat boy,
the figures are: 1,513verifiedarchitectural and engineering professionals and 12,284 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request. That is not using authority to press a point that is pointing out that since I’m not a building professional but they are I’m inclined to support that demand. Especially since even NIST after eight years can not explain the collapse.
I note you failed to answer the actual question that I raised, which was shouldn’t the numbers supporting this investigation be growing substationally rather than stagnating as seems to be the case?
and an interview with Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden, from early 02:
Hayden: Yeah. There was enough there and we were marking off. There were a lot of damaged apparatus there that were covered. We tried to get searches in those areas. By now, this is going on into the afternoon, and we were concerned about additional collapse, not only of the Marriott, because there was a good portion of the Marriott still standing, but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.
Firehouse: Was there heavy fire in there right away?
Hayden: No, not right away, and that’s probably why it stood for so long because it took a while for that fire to develop. It was a heavy body of fire in there and then we didn’t make any attempt to fight it. That was just one of those wars we were just going to lose. We were concerned about the collapse of a 47-story building there. We were worried about additional collapse there of what was remaining standing of the towers and the Marriott, so we started pulling the people back after a couple of hours of surface removal and searches along the surface of the debris. We started to pull guys back because we were concerned for their safety.
Looks to me like a substantial fire that was left to burn for several hours because the firefighters were concerned about the integrity of the building. But opinions vary obviously.
Here is a fire in a steel framed building in Madrid. It was much hotter, the building much more fragile and it burned mush longer but the building was still there.
Here is a steel framed building in China which again burned far hotter ,longer and was build in a strange lopsided manner but it di not collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture and no steel framed building other than the three WTC buildings have ever collapsed due to fires, let alone into their own foot prints in 6.5, 10 and 11 seconds. And the reaon for its collapse was because according to them one beam of the structure heated up and expanded a tiny bit more than the others causing the structure to collapse like a controlled ($ millions of dollars to pull off correctly) demolition. Come on PB, Come on.
Let me ask you something? Try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds or a 180 in 10-11 seconds. That is the time it took for those buildings to “collapse”. If you can do that I concede that those buildings failed structurally into their own footprint towards the path of most resistance.
Still not small office fire. It was bloody big office fire left to burn for several hours because the fire crews thought the building was going to collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture
Wikipedia mis-reports the NIST interim report then:
In its progress report, NIST released a video and still-photo analysis of 7 World Trade Center before its collapse that appears to indicate a greater degree of structural damage from falling debris than originally assumed by FEMA. Specifically, NIST’s interim report on 7 World Trade Center displays photographs of the southwest facade of the building that show it to have significant damage. The report also highlights a 10-story gash in the center of the south facade, toward the bottom, extending approximately a quarter of the way into the interior.[5][41] A unique aspect of the design of 7 World Trade Center was that each outer structural column was responsible for supporting 2,000 sq ft (186 m²) of floor space, suggesting that the simultaneous removal of a number of columns severely compromised the structure’s integrity.[42] Consistent with this theory, news footage shows cracking and bowing of the building’s east wall immediately before the collapse, which began at the penthouse floors.[5] In video of the collapse, taken from the north by CBS News and other news media, the first visible sign of collapse is movement in the east penthouse 8.2 seconds before the north wall began to collapse, which took at least another 7 seconds.
I know, I know, wikipedia. But still. The NIST report says something. It either says what wikipedia claims it says, or what you claim it says. Shall I check?
The madrid building wasn’t more fragile, it had a reinforced concrete central core, which survived, the steel shell around it collapsed though, about 2-3 hours in to the fire.
PB,
I take it you did not try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds then.
Buildings do not collapse due to fire in freefall speed into their own foot print because of gravity.
The fire was comparatively cold and the explanation from NIST has been peer reviewed and found wanting.
Here is a link to the NY times archives explaining the reinforcement of the building in 1989.
It was reinforced again to house the emergency bunker of Giuliani. It was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear impact.
Here is a video which shows the explosion initiation bringing down the building in the afternoon. NIST denies explosions occurred.
Here is a video of an interview with Barry Jennings. Barry Jennings was the Deputy Director of Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He died under mysterious circumstances just before the NIST report was released. He describes explosions in the building when none of the two towers had collapsed yet and He describes how the first 6 floors just disappeared leaving the outer walls standing.
however, all I’m pointing out is that you keep saying it was a small fire, when video shows that it wasn’t, and that there was structural damage when you claim there was none, and that the NIST report doesn’t say what you claimed it says.
Given this, I’m not really inclined to trust things you have to say. That’s not my fault, it’s your fault. You say things that when checked turn out to not be true, or at the very least , wildy misleading.
It really really really will help you to convince people if you sort that problem out.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request
Is what I said PC. Compared to the Spanish and Chinese fire they were minor.
If you choose to ignore evidence of explosions (You’re not alone, NIST refused to address this), the fact that the building reinforced to withstand a nuclear blast did collapse in free fall speed 6.5 seconds into its own foot print against all laws of motion and physics and unseen before and after 911 than that is your prerogative, mate.
Thanks a bunch for keeping the thread alive because unlike you there are always people who do want to know and they get to learn about it this way.
For those of you wanting to meet other people who want to know the truth here is the forum you might want to visit and become a member from and here is once again the link to Architects and engineers for 911 truth. Here is the site for the fire fighters for 911 truth and here is a list of prominent patriots who want a new and independent investigation.
Why does political discourse have to be so violent Gosman?
And by the looks of your comment you will be aware that I have written expressing my concern that my private information may be held by the National Party and by Slater. Cameron has responded in his usual manner.
I am actually wondering about the benefit of debating some issues online. I don’t care about abuse myself, but I know a number of others who feel very threatened by the overly intrusive and abusive behaviour of some.
Are you suggesting my comments to you constitutes abuse?
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow about the credit card information that Cameron Slater might or might not have and the reason why you sent the e-mail to him when your issue seems to be with Cameron Slater and the Labour party has already stated that credit card information was not accessed.
Yes I did say your e-mail was whiny but that is my personal opinion of it when reading it. That is hardly constitutes abuse on any major level in my book but if you were horribly offended I must apologise profusely to you.
Sorry Gosman. I agree your comment was mild in comparison to many.
I was referring more to the stream of texts and emails I am currently receiving.
I am pretty thick skinned about it but I just had breakfast with a few others who have been considerably affected by the application of the internet blowtorch on them.
I actually sympathise with you on this. I inwardly cringed when I saw you included your contact details on the e-mail as I could imagine certain people would most likely use that information in rather nasty ways. I might disagree with your political view point but there really is no excuse for that sort of stuff.
I’m told (elsewhere on this thread) that a climate of political attack and abuse is essential for democracy to function, and to keep lprent in the country.
But (I presume) MS is not being abused by politicians or representatives of political parties. So how does your “new way of doing things” have anything to do with the current issues MS is having?
I was talking about my opinons I posted on and discussed here, about the example of political behaviour set by our so called leaders – that any tactics are fair game as long as you can get away with it. Behaviour that flows out, including to politically minded people who seem to think anything and anyone is fair game in the brawl for power.
I think it’s incredibly sad to see the amount of resources that go into trying to abuse and destroy in political circles. It goes far beyond democratic debate, it’s an excuse to be a power seeking arsehole.
I figured that would be your answer. But don’t you think they you are seriously exaggerating the potential benefits of your so-called ‘new way of doing things’? Obviously, behaviour of political minded people is influenced to some degree by our political leaders. But people aren’t suddenly going to start behaving like angels just because there is less dirt being thrown around at the top.
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow
Is that the same guy that the movie Goodfellas was named after? 😉
How do you threaten someone without threatening someone?
“Hey Mickey, look, you’ve been causing trouble here and you know it. Why would you do that when you know your mum has just had a heart attack and is recovering down at St Vincent’s? And your wife, she’s got that new job at the store down the road hasn’t she? I heard that she likes it there. Now your little Matty he’s at such a sensitive age looking to start school next month. So Mickey, if I were you, I’d just focus on making sure that your family stays healthy and happy, and not worrying about all this other political stuff.
Wrote to both to put them on notice and to ask for information they held concerning me. Slater responded rather briefly saying “F@#$ off”. His eloquence is mythical. I am thinking of seeking clarification of his position but it is a bit like poking a bear with a stick …
Bizarre -with one hand typing damning accusations of dirty tricks from the opposing party, and with the other hand dissing me for suggesting our opposition model of democracy is a tad bent.
So it hasn’t crossed your mind that people aren’t actually dissing you for saying that you aren’t happy with the present model, but are actually calling bullshit on your alternative proposal?
Interesting, Pete. That level of narcissism could take you a long way in your new career.
Pete, why must you resort to these filthy insinuations? Kumbaya mate! Remember?
Let us talk closely know and reason together a way out of this mess, a mess caused by your sad and pathetic wallowing in the politics of personal denigration. First admit that your idea is fail, and then agree with us to move forward, together.
Gerry the Butt is on air saying that he can’t say anything definite. It’s blindingly obvious he says that some people will have to shift. But he doesn’t want to state definite areas, ‘It is a big decision for people, it’s a lifetime investment, but the ducks have to be all lined up. Even after an announcement there will be a considerable time before people can move”.
Every comment he makes shows that he understands the position and then refuses to answer the questions, to make decisions because he has to make decisions that are ‘very, very robust’. Everyone wanting simplistic approaches are being unreasonable. So much for all his powers. I imagine that the decision to appoint him went like this – Gerry is such a mouthy livewire. His family know about timber. He knows about practical working with timber. He is a teacher, (who often think they know everything) and is not a shy communicator. He won’t be happy with his other positions. This will give him something to get his teeth into, which are false, and get him out of our hair here at NACT headquarters where he is a bit of a nit.
Last “It’s about fairness to the property owners”. By that he means, not making precipitate announcements, before all the possibilities have been gravely considered, chewed over like a cow’s cud, and finally excreted to the population. By all means they can’t be consulted with, have location meetings with management and engineers as they wish, who would explain the difficulties and possible and likely solutions and what the hold-ups are caused by. This is the authoritarian way.
Excerpt from the song Show Me from My Fair Lady – sing along!
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Has anyone thought of a protest occupation at his place? You know, everyone bring one bucketful of liquefaction from their property to dump on his lawn, just to make a point.
cv That would be a newsworthy action. It seems we can otherwise only act like an army of primed mosquitoes buzzing and biting till he reacts. If we can inject some ideas viruses and set up an itch we might get action and move this organic pile for the benefit of all of Christchurch.
Next idea is that the east side parts to be abandoned for housing should be bought by Landcorp from CERA or other body and then turned into dairy farms. These would use best practice and be models showing good environmental practices using present understanding of using effluent safely. I understand that if treated properly the gases produced can be utilised for energy. Landcorp would hold environmental field days similar to Hamilton and attract farmers and the general public for demonstrations. Landcorp would also develop, assisted by locals, corridors of vegetation for birds etc. Some of the people who had had to abandon their previous houses would have the option of living in hamlets of suitable, practical, low-cost houses on suitable higher ground with a passing grade from engineers. These would be served by buses morning, lunchtime and evening so that they wouldn’t be isolated from the city and wouldn’t need a car to get to work.
I’ve never understood how in a country so full of cow shit, mushrooms can cost $12/kg! Using modern mycological methods we could drink the run off from dairy, but not while we assign more value to ipods than we do to chickens. They are just gaming it to see which way their corporations can make the most money from it and once they’ve been told what they are going to do,I’m sure they will let us all in on it. I thinking your all expecting a little too much from someone who obviously has someone else hand up his am I allowed to say that? I better go read more policy 🙂
whilst the poodles were licking their wounds, and the journos were playing three card Monty with the truth, it seems the Education Minister has been busy planning the destruction of one of the few programmes that has consistently helped thousands of POOR children recieve much needed assistance for over fifty years
Tolley wants to close the Health Camps and is not saying what will replace them
This is a very serious attack on one of our country’s most internationally applauded Child-assistance policies. Does anyone have any detail? http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5140699/Letter-an-insult-to-board
I do know that Health Camps became a sort of mis-nomer years ago. Used to be just for kids who were sick.
But now it is a respite for desperate kids suffering from abuse and learning difficulties and general needs. Kids are there for a limited time and get regular meals, regular recreation, and regular schooling. Suppose the problem is in what happens to those kids after the Camp.
No, my friend was raped by one of the ‘leaders’ at the health camp. I look back at those six weeks as a time that I learnd to harden my heart and really start to hate the world. If there ever was a FAIL in the states attempts to fix my broken family, then this camp was definitely one of them. I do not know of a single other kid who liked or benefited in their time there, far too much like a “getting you ready for prison” and “boot camp” to be anything other than a tool instilling repression in our youth. Good Riddance!
‘Lack of certainty is killing the spirit and economy of Christchurch’
OK. Here is some certainties:
1. Global extraction of conventioanl oil has peaked, so current economic arrangements will disintegrate over the next decade. The globalised, industrialised food system will collapse..
2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered, substantial sea level rise that will cover much of Canterbury is more or less inevitable over coming decades. i.e. Christchurch doesn’t have a long term future.
3. Politicians serve their own interests, and the interests of bankiers and corporations. Any ‘solutions’ they come up with will therefore primarily be for the benefit politicians, bankers and corporations. Since peak oil and abrupt climate change are taboo topics for them, their ‘solutions’ will be completely disconnected from reality.
4. Most people are ignorant of the facts and don’t believe the truth when it is provided.
5 The most important item on the agenda of politicians and the media at this stage in the game is to keep ‘the proles’ misinformed and believing in the system – a bit like Fukishima: ‘everything is under control’.
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come. (Of course, those who run early get the best spots.)
[lprent: This sidetracked way to far from the post. Next time I see you do this, you will get a *long* ban. moving whole thread to OpenMike. ]
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come.
In the kind of apocolyptic scenario you are thinking of those who are isolated in the ‘hills’ will be the first to be picked off. It will be those who have strong communities around them who will survive.
You should look at the post-Soviet experience in Russia during the 1990’s to get a better model of what is more likely to happen.
Yeah and Fukushima is a worry. The cover up is worse than Chernobyl.
“2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered,”
Which positive feedbacks have been triggered? Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.
How can the earth be at “peak oil” when we’re yet to reach peak exploration? Get a grip! I heard this sort of doomsday meanderings back in the 1970s. Why don’t you google “fracking” then re-phrase what you loosely call “known facts?” Idiot!
Micky wrote to Goodfellow and ccd Slater on the email. It was a strange, rambling email that accused all sorts of high crimes on behalf of National for which Micky has no evidence while purportedly defending Labour’s unlawful and non-existent lack of security on its data.
Micky then told Slater he was free to publish the email but only in its entirety. Is it any wonder that Slater did so, and included the contact details that Micky left which were on the email, following Micky’s request to publish in entirety?
Micky if you are Labour’s legal counsel then Labour really is up shit creek. Cam Slater’s blog isn’t even subject to the Privacy Act, so good luck trying to shift that shit up a hill.
There has been some recent publicity concerning the National Party’s downloading of information from a Labour Party server which regrettably was not as secure as it might be.
From today’s National Business Review I note that you have confirmed that a National Party staff member “accessed” the data. By this I anticipate that you mean “downloaded”. The data has also regrettably found its way into the hands of Mr Cameron Slater.
I am pretty sure that some of the data was mine. I donated to the Labour Party to purchase some “Stop Asset Sales” signs as I considered this a worthy cause to support. The idea of selling an interest in our power companies to essentially overseas interests is frankly insane. I paid for the signs by credit card and I am concerned that the National Party now has my credit card’s details.
You can imagine the worry that this has caused me. It is bad enough that your party has my credit card details but there is the strong possibility that your organisation has also facilitated Cameron Slater aka Whaleoil to obtain the same information. I cannot imagine what he will do with this information.
So I seek the following from you:
1. Advice on what data your organisation holds concerning me.
2. Your organisation’s undertaking that it will not disclose any information that it holds concerning me to any third party.
3. Details of information already supplied to Mr Slater concerning the security problems that the Labour Party server had.
4. Details of information supplied to any third party which may include data that relates to me.
Please note that if I suffer any monetary loss because of the actions of your organisation then I reserve the right to seek damages.
I am sending a copy of this email to Mr Slater so that he is also placed on notice. I also seek the same information from him. If he does anything that causes me loss then I reserve the right to seek redress from him personally.
I note that Mr Slater has chosen to print previous emails from Chris Flatt. He is at liberty to print this email but only in full.
Finally please note that I require a response within the next seven days. “
Don’t you think you made a bit of a major assumption there that the National party organisation supplied Cameron Slater with this information.
I’m not sure if people in the organisation had publically come out and denied they had when you wrote off to them but if they had what were you expecting them to say about this? Were you hoping you would catch them out with them stating ‘Well we didn’t give him any of your credit card details so you dont have to w…. D’oh!’?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well? If not, why haven’t you made a formal legal request, you are after all a lawyer?
Micky you have no evidence that the Naitonal Party supplied anything to Slater. In fact you have denials from both the President and Slater himself that any such supply took place. The only pseudo-evidence you have is unsubstantiated allegations made by anonymous bloggers and commenters here at the Standard. Unless you’re preparing to have them appear as witnesses in Court to substantiate their claims which I don’t imagine would please them, then you are pushing shit up hill. I realise you are emotionally fraught at the moment but you would be better off blaming the Labour Party for publishing your personal details on the internet rather than trying to be a nuisance to the National Party who will just laugh your silly attention-seeking correspondence away.
Read Pagani’s blog for a human readable version. The logs are pretty clear if you (like we do) have a record of IP’s that access our site and you look at the back trace.
Quite frankly I think that Goodfellow doesn’t know what people in his organization do. After all someone there has been feeding dirt on him to Whale for some time. You perhaps…
Cameron Slater is a serial liar and completely untrustworthy. If he states something is a fact, then the highest probability is that is largely a fabrication. That is quite easy for me to prove, I’d just point to the various lies he has made about me and the organizations I worked for over the years.
If someone wants to sue on that basis, then go right ahead.
Could be me, but I doubt it Lyn since I’m not actually part of the National Party organisation. But I tell you what, if you go and put a disclaimer about all the party associations that your bloggers have you will have a right to make snide remarks about right wing commenters here. But you might want to read your About policy first.
You have interesting IP’s and I have seen them before, which tends to make me suspicious. They are covered by the privacy provisions policy but I do scan them when I start putting people into moderation.
BTW: Since we’re talking about accuracy. My name is Lynn, and my partners name is Lyn. I keep thinking that you’re talking to someone else. Use lprent or Lynn please.
There is no disclaimer there of all the party associations of your bloggers Lyn and I wouldn’t expect them to be such, so if you want to go around insinuating party associations of commenters here that’s your choice because it’s your blog, but don’t expect me to think it’s an intellectually consistent approach to take.
Yes there is. They are of the labour movement. A couple of us are Labour party members. Some are union members. Some have no known memberships but will state who they will vote for. Some bemoan that there is no party they will vote for.
At last count there are 30 odd people who have author rights here. Some haven’t used them for some time but did so extensively in the past. Others have only written a couple of posts. If you want to know what there affiliations are – then stop being so damn lazy and read their posts.
You know I didn’t ask for their associations so stop putting up bloody straw men and then getting all pissy on it when I don’t bite. I said you do not publish the party associations of your bloggers. Saying they are of the “labour movement” is not a disclaimer. Write what you like, it’s your blog. You’ve accused me of being a National Party insider who might pass things onto Whale and I’ve said your wrong. Keep that in mind next time you ban somebody for saying one of your bloggers is a Labour Party apparatchik. In the meantime that is not the topic of this discussion and you know it.
I would say that is a pretty clear disclaimer. It covers everyone who authors here because apart from the small number of original authors, it has been there since just after the site started.
You’re not one of those silly buggers that thinks a site like this can be run out of a political organization are you? Bear in mind that the two Bills, the spout and some of the others are usually pretty trenchant critics of the Labour party. Also I don’t think much of the Greens or anyone left of the right of the Labour Party. That this site could be run by a political party that was always a bit of a jerk-off fantasy by the right bloggers losing readers.
Ah, here we go. The little abrasiveness remarks, ignoring requests for the right name use and the accusations of not being intellectually consistent. Yep.
Don’t let him get to you Iprent. He isn’t worth it.
You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that because you have evidence of Cameron Slater lying in the past that must mean everything he states subsequently must also be a lie AND that the opposite position from what he has stated about something must be the truth. That is hardly a persuassive argument.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact. I think that he doesn’t truly distinguish between them. I’ve even looked at a couple of his posts on weapons, checked the specs and found that his assertions of fact have no basis in reality.
He is a entertaining storyteller for the credulous right, but you can’t rely on what he says because he routinely embellishes facts so they are unrecognizable.
Some of that happens in some authors posts here as well. But generally they clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is their opinion. Apart from anything else we have a far more active comments section with a much wider range of people who comment. Someone from some viewpoint will tear loose statements of fact apart as embarrassingly as possible. Authors learn that pretty fast.
And yes, you’re correct. I assume that anything that Whale says is wrong until proven otherwise. Why? Because my (and probably most peoples) experience of reading his stuff is that the more breathless his claims are, the more likely it is that he fabricated most of it.
I don’t rely on what Cameron Slater states however that doesn’t mean that the opposite must in fact be true. You should still weigh up the balance of probabilities and evidence.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact.
That can also apply to many of the posts here, laughably (or sadly) appearing as extreme propaganda. Just look at the headlines. Those that want them to be true will buy them, but they are hardly going to convince anyone else of a political alternative with any competence.
I know this isn’t a Labour blog – I agree, a party couldn’t do something like this – but a notable proportion of the posts here do nothing to help make Labour look like it has anywhere near recovered from 2008.
Whether the extreme posting comes from Labour or not the perceived link is there and it’s easy to think you wouldn’t want that lot anywhere near the liquor cabinet let alone cabinet in parliament.
The quality of writing you should be concerned about as a budding young politician with 15 years of private sector R&D experience is not at The Standard, it is within the MSM.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.
He said today National had written to Labour to say it had not passed on any information and did not intend to.”
It does not say that they didn’t instruct Whale about how to get access to it himself. Which is what is being suggested by felix
BTW: Looks like that took Whale some time to get right. The logs show him as being somewhat tentative. Whoever was doing it at the National part was better technically.
You’re the accuser here lyn, you have to prove your case with evidence. You have made assumptions based on plausibility, not inspected evidence and weighed up probabilities. They aren’t the same thing.
Goodfellow also didn’t deny that he was the shooter on the grassy knoll. Are you going to call the FBI to insist they make an arrest?
So far I haven’t even seen any evidence that Slater has done, or will do, anything illegal with the data. If you or somebody else could enlighten me on that I would be very grateful.
What Lynn says (I apologise I’ve been calling him Lyn accidentally) on this is diversion and not backed up by evidence. If you want examples of third party attacks then you only have to look at the attacks that Pagani and Micky did on Simon Lusk and Whale a few weeks back before Trevor got in on the act. And if you are talking about third party attacks on political opponents by proxy then it would be very rich for that allegation to be coming from bloggers here at the Standard.
As for the plausibility of Lynn’s claim of an association between Whale and the National Party, are you fucking serious? Whale fucking hates the National Party, has as far as I know never said anything nice about Goodfellow (in fact he waged a no-holds barred campaign against him) and would quite happily see them stomped into the ground with Act taking their place.
Simon Lusk is someone whose name I did not know until recently. He is implicated in the take over of the ACT party and also the anti MMP campaign. He is high up in the National Party and has significant links to the Beehive and Joyce. His name starts getting mentioned and then PC shows up and takes umbrage at this. Why the sensitivity?
I would not describe comments about Lusk as being “attacks”. He appears to me to be very competent at what he does.
Of course I could speculate at PC’s links to Lusk but lprent would not like it …
You can speculate all you like Micky, just as you speculated on Lusk and his so called high up connections in the Beehive which sound more like more fantasy from you of the kind that had you send the silliest lawyer’s letter to Peter Goodfellow that I have seen in a very long time. I’ve never met the guy and I tend to think if he was such a mover and shaker in the National Party more people would have heard of him.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.”
Love it, I have a possible vulnerability on my computer so I take the liberty of testing it on somebody elses without their permission. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
I would say definite comprehension and logical deductive reasoning problems. Have just commented on such to PC on “Silence of the Poodles” .Potty Control would seem to be a more appropriate moniker as a constant self reminder. “Must control pottiness, must control pottiness…….’
Reading about Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker stating he would not continue if he couldn’t have his choice of City Manager struck warning bells in my mind. It sounds like a step along the path to American cronyism.
There a leader (mayor) gets elected, and can sack the administration and bureaucrats of the previous leader and instal his own handpicked people. Our idea has been that the bureaucrats are largely servants of the government working under the law for the people and serving whichever party gets into power in parliament. But they are supposed to be able to offer free and frank advice that is not partial to the leader’s whims and bents. It’s a good idea and it shouldn’t be countenanced to have it subverted.
Your labour party handlers told you to say that when you ran out of lies to distract from Labour breaking the law by not protecting personal data didn’t they felix?
Travellerev if I can go to the effort of correcting myself when I spell Lynn’s name wrong then you can at least go to the effort of spelling my uncle Lynton’s name right. It’s CROSBY.
Yeah, these Labour party handlers are driving me nuts actually Codpiece Potion. I just want to do beat poetry but they’re holding me back and stifling my creativity.
but if we don’t have handlers, how do we know what to say? It’s not like we’d just like honestly believe that the governments objective is just to favour the rich and fuck the country…
Why is Simon Power giving a speech in the General Debate, that focuses on attacking Goff’s leadership?
Oh and Finlayson is accusing Labour MPs of engaging in trivialities like flame wars & cycle races.
Yes, it seems to be a constant diversionary activity for National to bash Goff.
Surely Finlayson can’t be serious, accusing Labour of not being serious about the important and urgent politics because they do blogging stuff, and cycle rides. Meanwhile, where is JonKey? Dancing awkwardly down a fashion runway? Joking his way from one photo op to the next? And as for his stand-up routine that he used to deliver his budget speech?
Carol, the problem with mud slinging from the Nats regarding Goff is that mud just may be slung back. What a dirty tricks election it is going to be. The Nats have to watch their back as they never know when a blogger will pull them up for a similar thing they are accusing a Labour MP about.
Since about 21.00 last night, I have been reading newspaper clippings I had put in a big envelope dated from 1989 to 1996. I am very depressed to see that everything NACT are doing has been done before – in 1984-99. some changes are so long standing that I had forgotten things were ever different. Yellow Buses for instance – have been owned by the international company Stagecoach since at least 1993, yet I had forgotten that they were ever Government (or Council) owned until among my clippings I found a heap of objections to Jenny Schippelfat selling Yellow Buses off…. It is mega-depressing that it’s all deja vu all over again – the same anti-bemeficiary letters to the Ed., the same replies – the same think tanks putting their ideas forward. It’s all worse now though – in 1991-2, there was great indignation about DPB women being work-tested when their youngest child was 7 years old. Good grief, that was bad enough…. One thing I have noticed – I came across only one reference to DPB women ‘breeding for a living”. Maybe that meme hadn’t got started then, or it wasn’t widespread? Or maybe I just didn’t save in this inadvertent time capsule, any reference to it?
The more we change the more we stay the same. Your research is a bit depressing isn’t it Vicky. Sad to think that the population isn’t outraged by the thought of “making” mothers go back to work when the child is 12 months. Remember when Key suggested 6 years last year? He got away with that and so they seem hell bent on getting away with the sooner.
Wonder how many mothers (fathers?) on DPB would be affected and how many kids?
Oh yes, it’s deeply depressing! (I still have more clippings to go through, I am deciding what to get rid of, as I will one way or another, possibly, I hope, be moving soon!) It’s amazing how much rubbish one accumulates over 15 years in the same dump!) The scary thing is that in all those years, nothing has permanently changed…, (From 1999 to 2008, it did, but the changes didn’t stick..)
Boiling of frogs springs to mind. People now accept things they would have argued against in the 90s…
Green Party MP Metiria Turei asked some very important questions of John Key in Parliament today. Once again, the Prime Minister wasn’t there so Bill English tried to answer for the absentee leader.
In one particular answer given by the flailing Bill English, he said that the Government was helping to reduce the huge divide between the haves and have-nots ie disparity by improving immunisation and the Green’s inspired home insulation scheme. He must be joking!
Anyone watching Back Benchers? Simon Bridges seems to be having a hard time tonight, he looks tired and all of his yelling and talking over of others is quite telling. Big ups to Wallace Chapman who’s done an excellent job in tolerating his behaviour all night.
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Every day now just seems to bring in more fresh meat for the grinder.In their relentlessly ideological drive to cut back on the “excessive bloat” (as they see it) of the previous Labour-led government, on the mountains of evidence accumulated in such a short period of time do not ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections by Megan Valére SosouMarket gardening site of the Itchèléré de Itagui agricultural cooperative in Dassa-Zoumè (Image credit: Megan Valère Sossou) For the residents of Dassa-Zoumè, a city in the West African country of Benin, choosing between drinking water and having enough ...
Buzz from the Beehive Melissa Lee – as may be discerned from the screenshot above – has not been demoted for doing something seriously wrong as Minister of ...
Morning in London Mother hugs beloved daughter outside the converted shoe factory in which she is living.Afternoon in London Travelling writer takes himself and his wrist down to A&E, just to be sure. Read more ...
Mike Grimshaw writes – The recent announcement of the University Advisory Group, chaired by Sir Peter Gluckman, makes very clear where the Government’s focus and priorities lie. The remit of the Advisory Group is that Group members will consider challenges and opportunities for improvement in the university sector including: ...
Eric Crampton writes – The Reserve Bank of New Zealand desperately wants to find reasons to have workstreams in climate change. It makes little sense. They’ve run another stress test on the banks looking to see if they could find a prudential regulation case. They couldn’t. They ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Pundits from the left and the right are arguing that National’s Fast Track Bill that is designed to speed up infrastructure decisions could end up becoming mired in a cesspool of corruption. Political commentator ...
Looking at the headlines this morning it’s hard to feel anything other than pessimistic about the future of humanity.Note that I’m not speaking about the future of mankind, but the survival of our humanity. The values that we believe in seem to be ebbing away, by the day.Perhaps every generation ...
Swabbing mixed breed baby chicks to test for avian influenzaUh oh. Bird flu – often deadly to humans – is not only being transmitted from infected birds to dairy cows, but is now travelling between dairy cows. As of last Friday, Bloomberg News reports, there were 32 American dairy herds ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Green Party has today launched a step-by-step guide to help New Zealanders make their voice heard on the Government’s democracy dodging and anti-environment fast track legislation. ...
The National Government’s proposed changes to the Residential Tenancies Act will mean tenants can be turfed from their homes by landlords with little notice, Labour housing spokesperson Kieran McAnulty said. ...
Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson is calling on all parties to support a common-sense change that’s great for the planet and great for consumers after her member’s bill was drawn from the ballot today. ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
Emergency Management and Recovery Minister Mark Mitchell has today released the Report of the Government Inquiry into the response to the North Island Severe Weather Events. “The report shows that New Zealand’s emergency management system is not fit-for-purpose and there are some significant gaps we need to address,” Mr Mitchell ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith is today travelling to Europe where he’ll update the United Nations Human Rights Council on the Government’s work to restore law and order. “Attending the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva provides us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while ...
Associate Agriculture Minister, Mark Patterson, formally reopened the world’s largest wool processing facility today in Awatoto, Napier, following a $50 million rebuild and refurbishment project. “The reopening of this facility will significantly lift the economic opportunities available to New Zealand’s wool sector, which already accounts for 20 per cent of ...
Hon Andrew Bayly, Minister for Small Business and Manufacturing At the Southland Otago Regional Engineering Collective (SOREC) Summit, 18 April, Dunedin Ngā mihi nui, Ko Andrew Bayly aho, Ko Whanganui aho Good Afternoon and thank you for inviting me to open your summit today. I am delighted ...
The Government is delivering on its commitment to bring back the Three Strikes legislation, Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee announced today. “Our Government is committed to restoring law and order and enforcing appropriate consequences on criminals. We are making it clear that repeat serious violent or sexual offending is not ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has today announced four new diplomatic appointments for New Zealand’s overseas missions. “Our diplomats have a vital role in maintaining and protecting New Zealand’s interests around the world,” Mr Peters says. “I am pleased to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the ...
New Zealand is contributing NZ$7 million to support communities affected by severe food insecurity and other urgent humanitarian needs in Ethiopia and Somalia, Foreign Minister Rt Hon Winston Peters announced today. “Over 21 million people are in need of humanitarian assistance across Ethiopia, with a further 6.9 million people ...
Minister for Arts, Culture and Heritage Paul Goldsmith is congratulating Mataaho Collective for winning the Golden Lion for best participant in the main exhibition at the Venice Biennale. "Congratulations to the Mataaho Collective for winning one of the world's most prestigious art prizes at the Venice Biennale. “It is good ...
The Government is reforming financial services to improve access to home loans and other lending, and strengthen customer protections, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly and Housing Minister Chris Bishop announced today. “Our coalition Government is committed to rebuilding the economy and making life simpler by cutting red tape. We are ...
“China remains a strong commercial opportunity for Kiwi exporters as Chinese businesses and consumers continue to value our high-quality safe produce,” Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay says. Mr McClay has returned to New Zealand following visits to Beijing, Harbin and Shanghai where he met ministers, governors and mayors and engaged in trade and agricultural events with the New ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has completed a successful trip to Singapore, Thailand and the Philippines, deepening relationships and capitalising on opportunities. Mr Luxon was accompanied by a business delegation and says the choice of countries represents the priority the New Zealand Government places on South East Asia, and our relationships in ...
New Zealand is demonstrating its commitment to reducing global greenhouse emissions, and supporting clean energy transition in South East Asia, through a contribution of NZ$41 million (US$25 million) in climate finance to the Asian Development Bank (ADB)-led Energy Transition Mechanism (ETM). Prime Minister Christopher Luxon and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ian Douglas, Honorary Senior Lecturer, UNSW Aviation., UNSW Sydney The history of budget jet airlines in Australia is a long road littered with broken dreams. New entrants have consistently struggled to get a foothold. Low-cost carrier Bonza has just become the industry’s ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Rosalind Dixon, Director, Gilbert + Tobin Centre of Public Law, UNSW Sydney Australia is finally having a sustained conversation about violence against women and what we can do about it. It is more than time. Australian women and girls continue to experience ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephen Duckett, Honorary Enterprise Professor, School of Population and Global Health, and Department of General Practice and Primary Care, The University of Melbourne stockfour/Shutterstock Preliminary bulk billing data released this week shows a 2.1% rise in bulk billing up to March. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Samantha Schulz, Senior Lecturer, University of Adelaide Australia is once again grappling with how we can stop gendered violence in our country. Protests over the weekend show there is enormous community anger over the number of women who are dying and National ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Peter Martin, Visiting Fellow, Crawford School of Public Policy, Australian National University AnastasiaDudka/Shutterstock What if the government was doing everything it could to stop thieves making off with our money, except the one thing that could really work? That’s how it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Erin Harrington, Senior Lecturer in English and Cultural Studies, University of Canterbury The Conversation It seems to be a time of old favourites. This month our experts have recommended two new seasons – the second season of Alone Australia (although ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jonti Horner, Professor (Astrophysics), University of Southern Queensland A bright Eta Aquariid meteor photobombed this photo of comet C/2020 F8 (SWAN) in May 2020.Jonti Horner Meteors – commonly known as shooting stars – can be seen on any night of the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Tim Flannery, Honorary fellow, The University of Melbourne Shutterstock Current concentrations of carbon dioxide (CO₂) in Earth’s atmosphere are unprecedented in human history. But CO₂ levels today, and those that might occur in coming decades, did occur millions of years ago. ...
Winston Peters has been keen to dismiss speculation on our involvement in Aukus but will give a speech tonight on the direction of our foreign policy, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Patrick Usmar, Lecturer in Critical Media Literacies, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images With the coalition government’s ban of student mobile phones in New Zealand schools coming into effect this week, reaction has ranged from the sceptical (kids will just get ...
A new report on protecting journalism and democracy in New Zealand recommends a levy be charged on global platforms like Facebook and Google to fund media firms undertaking public interest reporting. It also calls for the reinstatement of a powerful Broadcasting Commission to distribute public funding for journalism and other ...
On International Workers' Day, also known as May Day, the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions Te Kauae Kaimahi and the wider union movement are celebrating the proud history of the labour movement during a tough time for working people. ...
From bills to beards, a walk through the former Green co-leader’s time in politics. After close to a decade in politics, James Shaw is preparing to bid farewell to parliament. Tonight will see the former minister deliver his valedictory address, certain to be a speech filled with Shaw’s trademark wit ...
Two months ago, MPs unanimously voted to give themselves a week off in Efeso Collins’ honour. On Tuesday, most were too busy to give even an hour of their time. The day Fa’anānā Efeso Collins died, parliament felt different. In a building that operates at a breakneck pace, everyone stopped ...
India’s election involves hundreds of millions of people and is a months-long affair. Here’s how voting works and what’s at stake.The biggest-ever election in world history started on April 19, with more than 10% of the world’s population eligible to vote. Elections in India, the world’s most populous country ...
Opinion: The impression from the carpark is very inviting. The area is well fenced but barred so there is easy visibility of loved ones. Inside, the spaces are welcoming and clean and staff are friendly and clearly comfortable. I am greeted by ‘Kim’. She has worked here for three years, ...
After the Christchurch earthquake, the then-national civil defence boss compared his experience to “putting a team on the rugby field who have never ever played together before”. Now, eight years later – and following a damning inquiry into the emergency response of cyclones Gabrielle, Hale and the Auckland anniversary weekend floods – ...
“I had just come off the end of a major robbery case which I had been working on for six months when I got a call on the afternoon of September 1, 1992, that some remains had been found at a building site in Devonport, so I drove over with ...
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Comment: Journalists are very good at telling other people’s stories, but they fall well short when writing about their own profession. Perhaps that is why it is so undervalued. Every successive poll on the public’s attitude toward journalism is more alarming than the last. In the last month we have ...
Opinion: A young Māori woman and her Pacific partner arrive at their local hospital by ambulance. She has gone into labour at just under 24 weeks, but the couple haven’t recognised the symptoms – and don’t know the risks of premature birth for their baby. By the time they arrive, ...
Behind closed doors, NZ First will be arguing fiercely against any watering down of the ministerial decision-making powers in the Bill The post Bishop backtracks after fast-track backlash appeared first on Newsroom. ...
Emotional scenes played out in the Invercargill courthouse on the first two days of the coronial inquest into the death of Gore toddler Lachlan Jones, in which the boy’s mother was accused of disposing of her son’s body. The second season of Newsroom’s award-nominated podcast The Boy in the Water ...
Asia Pacific Report A Pacific civil society alliance has condemned French neocolonial policies in Kanaky New Caledonia, saying Paris is set on “maintaining the status quo” and denying the indigenous Kanak people their inalienable right to self-determination. The Pacific Regional Non-Governmental Organisations (PRNGOs) Alliance, representing some 15 groups, said in ...
Koi Tū New Zealand cannot sit back and see the collapse of its Fourth Estate, the director of Koi Tū: The Centre for Informed Futures, Sir Peter Gluckman, says in the foreword of a paper published today. The paper, “If not journalists, then who?” paints a picture of an industry ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Foreign investment proposals with implications for Australia’s strategic or economic security will face tougher scrutiny, under a policy overhaul to be announced by Treasurer Jim Chalmers on Wednesday. At the same time, the government ...
A Waitangi Tribunal inquiry report has warned government that a repeal of Section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act could cause harm to children in care. ...
The Treasury has published today three new papers covering government consumption multipliers, automatic stabilisers and the impacts of global shocks on New Zealand’s economy. ...
Asia Pacific Report The Pacific state of Hawai’i’s House of Representatives has joined the state’s Senate in calling for a ceasefire in Israel’s war on Gaza, becoming the first state to pass such a resolution, reports Hawaii News Now. In March, the Senate passed a ceasefire resolution with a 24–1 ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Christopher Ferrie, A/Prof, UTS Chancellor’s Postdoctoral Research and ARC DECRA Fellow, University of Technology Sydney PsiQuantum The Australian government has announced a pledge of approximately A$940 million (US$617 million) to PsiQuantum, a quantum computing start-up company based in Silicon Valley. Half ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Hunter Bennett, Lecturer in Exercise Science, University of South Australia Cameron Prins/Shutterstock If you spend a lot of time exploring fitness content online, you might have come across the concept of heart rate zones. Heart rate zone training has become more ...
SPECIAL REPORT:By Eugene Doyle He is the most popular Palestinian leader alive today — and yet few people in the West even know his name. Absolutely no one in Gaza or the West Bank does not know him. That difference speaks volumes about who dominates the media narrative that ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Will McCallum, PhD Candidate – School of Communication and Creative Arts, Deakin University Earlier this year, Opposition Leader Peter Dutton accused Prime Minister Anthony Albanese of not supporting Operation Sovereign Borders – the military-led border security operation that has “closed Australia’s borders ...
By Melyne Baroi in Port Moresby A Papua New Guinea MP, Peter Isoaimo, who had been ousted by the National Court in an alleged bribery case, has been reinstated by the Supreme Court on appeal. A three-member Supreme Court bench found that the National Court had erred in finding that ...
Publisher Chris Holdaway reflects on the unique project of collecting the work of the late, terrific poet Schaeffer Lemalu. One of the nice things you can do as a truly independent publisher is to make the books that writers want to make, whatever they happen to be. That’s how I’ve ...
Those profiled in the stamp series served on overseas deployments from 1995 onwards, and all have been awarded theNew Zealand Operational Service Medal. ...
Last night’s dismal poll result for the coalition government shows the limits of trying to govern as an opposition, argues Joel MacManus. There’s a quote from the American political activist Barbara Deming: “Vengeance is not the point; change is. But the trouble is that in most people’s minds, the thought ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Shireen Morris, Associate Professor and Director of the Radical Centre Reform Lab at Macquarie University Law School, Macquarie University Leonid Andronov/Shutterstock Foreign interference in Australian democracy poses a growing risk to our national sovereignty. It refers to coercive, corrupt or ...
A defendant charged by the Serious Fraud Office (SFO) has pleaded guilty to four charges of obtaining by deception in relation to a mortgage fraud scheme. Sentencing has been scheduled for 14 August 2024. ...
What to say when pesky journalists ask gotcha questions like ‘can you name a single book you’ve ever read?’ and ‘did you read it, or did you just see the movie?’This week, Act Party arts spokesperson Todd Stephenson foolishly agreed to an interview with Newsroom’s Steve Braunias regarding his ...
Explainer - What will a ban on cellphones in schools achieve? Can students use them during lunch breaks? And what happens if you need to contact your child? ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jodi Rowley, Curator, Amphibian & Reptile Conservation Biology, Australian Museum, UNSW Sydney Jodi Rowley, CC BY-NC-ND In winter 2021, Australia’s frogs started dropping dead. People began posting images of dead frogs on social media. Unable to travel to investigate the deaths ...
In the year ended March 2024, 0.4 percent of home transfers were to people who didn’t hold New Zealand citizenship or a resident visa, according to figures released by Stats NZ today. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Wasay Majid, Research Assistant , University of Auckland, Waipapa Taumata Rau New Zealand’s accommodation supplement scheme is facing scrutiny, with Social Development Minister Louise Upston recently saying “there is merit in considering whether the current settings are fair and sustainable long-term”. The ...
By Koroi Hawkins, RNZ Pacific editor The first prime ministerial candidate has been announced in Solomon Islands and it is not Manasseh Sogavare. The man of the hour is Jeremiah Manele, the MP for Hograno/Kia/Havulei constituency in Isabel Province, who served as minister of foreign affairs in the last government. ...
Protesting the removal of bins by leaving piles of your dog’s shit for others to deal with doesn’t make you a hero – it’s precious and entitled behaviour. You haven’t truly lived until you’ve stood on the shoreline of Auckland’s Cheltenham beach, desperately trying to scoop increasingly liquid dog shit ...
Analysis - Christopher Luxon will be alert to the factors driving the dire polling, but won't be waving the white flag just yet, RNZ political editor Jo Moir writes. ...
Writer, teacher and academic Vincent O’Sullivan died on Sunday 28 April. Here we gather tributes from friends, colleagues, and students who remember his extraordinary contributions. I went down to the garage tonight. There was a bird shrieking out in the bush, in the dark, maybe a kākā. Miraculously, through the ...
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a burnt-out corporate escapee explains how she gets by ‘working as little as possible’. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here.Gender: Female Age: 31 Ethnicity: Pākehā Role: Contractor in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Timothy Schmidt, Professor of Chemistry, UNSW Sydney Albert Russ / Shutterstock The icebreaker of many a barbeque conversation is something like “what do you do for a crust?” “I teach chemistry at university,” is what we usually reply. Then silence. Our ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Asher Flynn, Associate Professor of Criminology, Monash University Shutterstock Sexual harassment is often considered to be a person-to-person act, but new research shows Australians are also experiencing and perpetrating workplace harassment in large numbers through technology. Our latest study shows one ...
A petition signed by more than 16,500 people, demanding the government take stronger action to halt the genocide of Palestinians by the State of Israel, is being presented to the House of Representatives today by Hon Phil Twyford. ...
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I wonder what today will bring us?…..
1. More revelations about Labour stealing from the public purse.
2. More diversionary tactics from Labour sycophants here at the Standard.
3. And more impiortantly…the public further reinforce their belief that Labour could not run a shower let alone a government.
Sort your act out guys, this nation needs a strong opposition, we simply cannot afford another term of Labour lite policies from Neville Key and the Nat’s.
Force Neville back to the right, only then can we hope to build a strong economy, one strong enough to withstand another Labour government (in about nine years)
I wonder what today will bring?
More visits from well known RWNJs and new posters that we have never heard of before. More incessant chantings of slogans along the lines of “Labour Bad”. More claims that the taking of data from a crippled server was somehow authorised.
No doubt the debate will be heated and no one’s opinions will be changed.
Of course we could always DNFTT.
Is that all you have Micky?
Normally you can put together a fairly reasoned (all be it wrong) argument, I guess even you have been forced to concede that Labour are as guilty as sin when it comes to stealing public funds.
Tell me mate, why is it that you lot think you have the right to steal my money whenever you fancy?
[Blatant trolling. A repeat will not be tolerated. Final warning…RL]
I can’t speak for “you lot” whoever that is, but I can think of a few good reasons to take what little money you have left.
High on the list: to save prostitutes from having to endure your tedious company.
If someone has been stealing your money you should lay a complaint with the cops bruv.
ha ha….feeling a bit caught out are you RL?
Feeling a bit guilty on behalf of your Labour party sycophants?
Earth calling Planet Bruv….any intellegent life there?????????????? Thought not.
If you ever had any doubts about the Casino nature of the economy as RWNJs want it try this headline from the NY Times this morning..Markets Turn Up Sharply After Release of Retail Data
Apparently the markets gained 1% on news that data was bad BUT not as bad as expected. Go figure. It is the sort of mentality that drives Keys economic vision, pray and hope and talk up what is a very bad story.
Theres been interesting data coming out of everywhere. Seems to be a surge of demand in NZ in the last two months. I’ve definitely noticed it.
Indeed, our primary outputs are going to be highly in demand whilst there is still some liquidity in the world. Commentary from http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/ has repeatedly got the indicators right, they suggest the world economy will have increasingly sharp swings up and down with the average being slow decline. Interesting times.
That would indicate a correction, not an decline forever.
The graphics remind me of this.
http://macrobusiness.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/bubblesandmanias.gif
The line indicating value on the graph is OK if you assume unlimited growth and available resources…take the resource availability out consumption comes down, and with it true value.This is what we now face.
I don’t know why bad data, but not as bad as expected, somehow surprised you when the market rallies?
They ‘price in’ what they expect the results of every report will be. Then, if the report comes out as expected, the market barely moves. If it comes out differently, the market will move towards the new position.
Nothing casino-like at all. Simple rational behaviour of markets, really.
Yesterday lprent said to me:
If the level of mudslinging, vitriol, hate and intolerance we have in our politics is seen as an essential part of a “healthy democracy” it’s no wonder our society has more than a few rough edges.
It’s in part the example set by the Dogs of Blogs, Bitches of Parties.
And part of the family of violence. (from Liberation”
PeteG, we might want to consider that vitriol and extreme positions go hand in hand with a society under increasing stress. The party that was the last 30 years is over, the “economy”if you can call it that now faces the long slow decline that will parallel resouce depletion (energy in particular). There are no magic bullets, no immediate cure, or way back ever. Its gone. Bleak indeed.
The cosy assumptions of the middle classes are crumbling before their eyes, no financial institution is to be trusted, no long term future based on what we are used to can be trusted. Those who own most are grasping to own more, those with least are getting less. So we will fight one another for the diminishing remains of what is left. Dont expect it to be “nice”, it is too visceral for that.
I think we have to fight against going down that path.
I agree, but I fear we might already be into the second round throwing punches wildly.
You forgot to put in the reason why I said that. As I recall I described it quite vividly.
Just think, there is very little conflict in the democracy in Fiji right now. Is that what you’re after?
Well he has indicated a desire that all parties get behind the government.
I guess it might sound a bit strange to some to expect that all our elected reprentatives should actually represent us and work together for the good of the country rather than ignore the people that voted for them, barricade themselves in party factions and try and bring each other down by any means they can think of, more foul than fair.
Doesn’t it seem strange that we seem to accept a “democracy” where the main opposition party doesn’t accept the democrat vote of the election and instead devotes itself to trying to bring the government down?
That sounds like actively encouraged desperate for power sedition to me, not democracy.
Ya big galloon, the people that voted for the opposition deserve representation in parliament too.
Opposition to The Party is sedition now, Pete?
Continually trying to bring a government down is, isn’t it?
You know very well I don’t support single party rule. That’s just another of your attempts at devious and blatant misrepresentation.
I support multiple healthy parties who can work together for the good of the country (which they do at select committee level now anyway) but can still have differences and debates on issues.
Have differences and debates and then get behind the government.
You’re getting clearer.
“You know very well I don’t support single party rule. “
Actually I don’t, Pete. I know you say that, but every time we drill down through your ideas about representation we run into this brick wall that you just don’t seem to be able to see over.
Here’s an example: http://thestandard.org.nz/drug-peddlers/#comment-330885
Perhaps you’re ready to answer the question at the “end” of that interchange now, and we can find out once and for all what it is you believe.
Who’s this “we” you are referring to? Who are you working with?
You don’t give me the impression you want to understand what I think.
You give me the impression you want to eliminate posts you don’t want here. Under favourable protection you try to exclude who you don’t want on the blog.
By “we” I just mean myself and the other commenters who have tried at length to get you to examine your ideas a little more closely. I’m only speaking for myself, but acknowledging that I’m not the only one who has put these questions to you.
Would you like to change the subject again or are you going to try to answer the question now?
Awww, where’d you go Pete? (again)
Seems it’s always at this exact point in our conversations (the point where I ask you the question you can’t face) that you disappear for the day.
I’m beginning to have serious doubts about your level of commitment to an inclusive, open, consultative model of governance, Pete.
I have other things to do sometimes felix, I’m not perpetually in thrall of your quaint manoeverings.
Politicians should be prepared to justify their actions to all voters.
I notice in that exchange that I made it clear (again) that I don’t support a one party state. Most of you “assumptions” there were incorrect, but that’s what you seem to like doing.
I support a multi party state where the parties don’t always try and destroy each other.
A question for you – do you accept that I don’t support a one party state?
Pete, I won’t know until you answer the question at the bottom of that thread.
Just think, there is very little conflict in the democracy in Fiji right now.
What democracy?
Hey Pete, how come you keep comin round here tryin to start fights and bein all ornery about things?
Usin words like ‘dogs’ and ‘bitches’ and stuff.
Robust democratic debate 🙂
And because if I said things like “please can our politicians and their heavies behave a bit more civilly and set a better example” it tends to get ignored.
Parties need jolting out of their self obsession with power at any price. Blogs aid and abet their charade of democracy, aka desparate clinging to power by any means.
Yeah everyone should just shut up and let you* make all the decisions then, for the good of democracy.
*Yes yes, I know I heard you the last time. You have a new and improved method of politics where people you listen to will talk to you and you’ll do what they tell you. Sounds like something I’d hate, sorry.
So what to do?
Don’t you know? PeteG is the one destined to bring balance back to the Force.
Pete I have no great love or respect for our parliamentarians, however, in their defense our parliamentary system is set up and designed to be oppositional in nature so as to ensure a positive and negative position on all issues are vigorously debated while this can lead to the childish and hateful behaviour we often seen in parliament it is a reasonable price to pay for having a democracy.
Oppositional is fine, we need that. But I think our parties go much further than “oppositional”.
We can have opposition and denbate without having to resort to the levels of mudslinging, blatant dishonesty and illegality (or stretching the rules to suit) that we get far too much of.
Don’t you see the difference?
Oh I agree with all that, I was pretty much backing up lprent’s view that if we suddenly had an outbreak of agreement on everything from the politicians we should all be very worried indeed.
No, we need to encourage diverse views.
All I’m suggesting is we shouldn’t have to accept so much arsehole behaviour and nasty tactics.
It’s no better than accepting kicking someone’s head in after the bar has closed because that’s what you do when you’re tanked up.
…arsehole behaviour and nasty tactics.
I consider that those would be where people are getting killed, tortured, jailed, disappeared or having the shit beaten out of them. When you look outside democracies that is what you see. When you look at sham ‘democracies’ like Fiji, that is what you see. In fact that appears to be the norm for the political process over the centuries.
The penalty cost for having a vaguely democratic system like ours is that you allow minorities and dissidents room to have a voice without getting killed (etc) is that the process is noisy. The noisiness appears to be what you’re objecting to.
I suspect you have lived a sheltered existence and could do to get out more amongst different cultures to see how they handle their political systems. You don’t even have to leave the country. I’d suggest that you do what I did at age 18 and go in the army. The culture was quite different to what I was used to, and soldiers there had a far far clearer appreciation of a free society looked like than you do.
PeteG – Denbate – is that some sort of rodent extermination material?
Time to change from our Westminster system of parliament you say?
No. We just have to use the system we’ve got better.
And not allow our politicians to abuse it so much.
Its the Westminster system. Oppositional and adversarial is what it was founded on.
But feel free to try and change the trimmings around the edges.
Why can’t Radio NZ leave the Darren Hughes affair alone? This morning they were trying (again) to make Phil Goff look bad over it. Are CT worried that Phil is increasingly like a better alternative than the donkey, et al. Move along.
[Deleted. Despicable smear-mongering. A repeat will earn a long ban…RL]
How is it smear mongering? He was under the influence of something, I didn’t say it was Darren that had anything to do with it. I’m merely pointing out the reason why charges were not laid. This was reported by the way.
[lprent: Whatever it was, I’d guess that you just failed to put in the link. Silly you. But I suspect that you made up your own story and didn’t put in a link to something reputable because it didn’t support you interpretation – right?.
Don’t be daft. If you want to make a statement of fact or insinuation of fact, then you need to support it. Otherwise we’ll treat it as trolling. ]
What is CT short for and how exactly is he, she, or it meant to be able to influence Radio NZ National editorial policy?
Crosby Textor – a hybrid organism that infects the brain stem of weak minded egoists who believe that some people are simply better than others because they own more shit.
CT? Try Crosby Textor the hoodwink experts John Key and the rest of his nasty little crowd get their daily spin lines from. Read the Hollow Men.
Okay then, so how is an Australian PR agency meant to influence the editorial decisions of Radio NZ National?
really, you are going with feigning ignorance?
…and you seem to be going with the ‘I don’t need to actually provide any evidence or even justify my position because I just know it is so’ approach.
One typical CT tactic is to provide news organisations with easy access to selective “facts”, specific framing/languaging and acceptable people to interview.
And with news organisations having to do more on less and less, its a quick easy way for them to get some content out there without working too hard.
I just heardv on 3 News Fatty Garner putting his view on the Darren Hughes event as if it were fact… pretty much as he usually does, in fact… 🙁
mickeysavage, is it true that you sent a whiny missive to Peter Goodfellow of National complaining about Cameron Slater and worrying about whether he had your credit card details?
Wouldn’t that be like someone on the right complaining to the Labour party about the antics of someone from The Standard? I’m sure you would agree that the Standard boys and girls cannot be dictated to by Labour Party head office yet you seem to think Cameron Slater can. Truly Bizarre.
Anyway I thought the Labour party has already stated that the credit card information was on another properly protected server and nothing was compromised? Don’t you trust the Labour party hierarchy on this?
People have done that a couple of times to us as well.
However, the National party’s IP’s are all over the access logs long before Slater touched it. It would appear that the National party could have a copies of some Labour party data, and it looks highly likely that someone in the National Party tipped off their poodle. So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.
But I suggest you look at the Privacy Act. It has some interesting provisions for organisations having to disclose any information that they hold on individuals.
So is Cameron working for ACT or National ……….. or is he actually responsible for 9/11?
Perhaps he’s just a political junkie who revels in poking opposing political junkies, politicians and political parties with a stick ……… seems to be good therapy for him.
None of those are necessarily mutually exclusive of course (just sayin is all…)
I suspect reverse vampire involvement.
Reverse vampire involvement, yes, but behind it all I suspect a cabal of born to rule werewolves.
“Congress tart !”
Where can I find one of those? 😉
Now that was silly wasn’t it, HS? But you’re not alone. 48% of all New Yorkers are wondering the same thing.
Jeez Travellerev you can’t stop yourself can you? lol!
Cowboy hat boy. Shush. you are so silly.
I bet if the question was: “Would you support a new $400m investigation into WTC7 collapse?” the answer would have been a lot more negative.
In other words, if you give stuff away for free, even if it’s stuff people don’t really care about, they’ll gladly accept it. If you charge them for it, you’ll get a low fewer takers.
ROFL, Fuck, rare earth man talk about a warped argument.
I’ll tell you what; if the choice is let’s get to the bottom of why a perfectly well build 47 story steel framed high rise collapsed after only minor office fires into its own footprint in 6.5 seconds breaking all Newtons laws of motion for a mere $400 million before we bankrupt ourselves attacking Afghanistan and Iraq considering the fact that they spend $ 40 million on the Lewinski/Clinton case (to find out whether he lied under oath about screwing the girl) I’m sure NYers would choose the investigation into the collapse of building 7 no problem.
Here is the collapse for those of you who didn’t know about the third building collapsing.
Even NIST had no explanation as to why this happened and let’s face it it never happened before or after 911.
More than 1500 Architects and Engineers want to know why it happened too. If only to be able to prevent it from happening another time.
“More than 1500 Architects and Engineers…”
To borrow your own text speak emotion
ROFL!
This would be round about the same number of supposed “Architects and Engineers”, (including a high number of students it must be stated), that has been claimed by that same website for the past few years.
If you must use the appeal to authority and numbers logical fallacy to bolster your argument it would be better if you could actually show that the numbers supporting these wacky ideas are actually growing significantly over time rather than stagnating.
no Cowboy hat boy,
the figures are:
1,513 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 12,284 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.
If that many building professionals want to know why a perfectly well build steel framed twice reinforced to withstand nuclear blasts collapses after a couple of hours of minor carbon fires within 6.5 seconds into its own footprint breaking all the laws of motion I’m happy to second that request. That is not using authority to press a point that is pointing out that since I’m not a building professional but they are I’m inclined to support that demand. Especially since even NIST after eight years can not explain the collapse.
LOL.
I note you failed to answer the actual question that I raised, which was shouldn’t the numbers supporting this investigation be growing substationally rather than stagnating as seems to be the case?
Eve, about the ‘small office fire in WTC7’ that you like to mention, here’s video you could link to in support of that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Afb7eUHr64U
and an interview with Deputy Fire Chief Peter Hayden, from early 02:
Looks to me like a substantial fire that was left to burn for several hours because the firefighters were concerned about the integrity of the building. But opinions vary obviously.
Hi PB,
Here is a fire in a steel framed building in Madrid. It was much hotter, the building much more fragile and it burned mush longer but the building was still there.
Here is a steel framed building in China which again burned far hotter ,longer and was build in a strange lopsided manner but it di not collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture and no steel framed building other than the three WTC buildings have ever collapsed due to fires, let alone into their own foot prints in 6.5, 10 and 11 seconds. And the reaon for its collapse was because according to them one beam of the structure heated up and expanded a tiny bit more than the others causing the structure to collapse like a controlled ($ millions of dollars to pull off correctly) demolition. Come on PB, Come on.
Let me ask you something? Try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds or a 180 in 10-11 seconds. That is the time it took for those buildings to “collapse”. If you can do that I concede that those buildings failed structurally into their own footprint towards the path of most resistance.
Still not small office fire. It was bloody big office fire left to burn for several hours because the fire crews thought the building was going to collapse.
According to NIST the building suffered not substantial damage, the fire only burned up office materials and furniture
Wikipedia mis-reports the NIST interim report then:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7_World_Trade_Center
I know, I know, wikipedia. But still. The NIST report says something. It either says what wikipedia claims it says, or what you claim it says. Shall I check?
The madrid building wasn’t more fragile, it had a reinforced concrete central core, which survived, the steel shell around it collapsed though, about 2-3 hours in to the fire.
PB,
I take it you did not try to clap your hands 47 times in 6.5 seconds then.
Buildings do not collapse due to fire in freefall speed into their own foot print because of gravity.
The fire was comparatively cold and the explanation from NIST has been peer reviewed and found wanting.
Here is a link to the NY times archives explaining the reinforcement of the building in 1989.
It was reinforced again to house the emergency bunker of Giuliani. It was supposed to be able to withstand a nuclear impact.
Here is a video which shows the explosion initiation bringing down the building in the afternoon. NIST denies explosions occurred.
Here is a video of an interview with Barry Jennings. Barry Jennings was the Deputy Director of Emergency Services Department for the New York City Housing Authority. He died under mysterious circumstances just before the NIST report was released. He describes explosions in the building when none of the two towers had collapsed yet and He describes how the first 6 floors just disappeared leaving the outer walls standing.
All of which is fascinating eve.
however, all I’m pointing out is that you keep saying it was a small fire, when video shows that it wasn’t, and that there was structural damage when you claim there was none, and that the NIST report doesn’t say what you claimed it says.
Given this, I’m not really inclined to trust things you have to say. That’s not my fault, it’s your fault. You say things that when checked turn out to not be true, or at the very least , wildy misleading.
It really really really will help you to convince people if you sort that problem out.
Is what I said PC. Compared to the Spanish and Chinese fire they were minor.
If you choose to ignore evidence of explosions (You’re not alone, NIST refused to address this), the fact that the building reinforced to withstand a nuclear blast did collapse in free fall speed 6.5 seconds into its own foot print against all laws of motion and physics and unseen before and after 911 than that is your prerogative, mate.
Thanks a bunch for keeping the thread alive because unlike you there are always people who do want to know and they get to learn about it this way.
For those of you wanting to meet other people who want to know the truth here is the forum you might want to visit and become a member from and here is once again the link to Architects and engineers for 911 truth. Here is the site for the fire fighters for 911 truth and here is a list of prominent patriots who want a new and independent investigation.
“So yes you may know what you told your poodle to collect.”
WTF???
I’m not even a member of the National Party so why would you try and suggest I had something to do with this.
I think you are guilty of the very same problem you have when people equate members of The Standard with Labour.
My apologies. That sort of deliberately slipped out. For some reason it felt right…..
(it must have been all of the synchronized yapping I have been seeing for the last couple of days)
Why does political discourse have to be so violent Gosman?
And by the looks of your comment you will be aware that I have written expressing my concern that my private information may be held by the National Party and by Slater. Cameron has responded in his usual manner.
I am actually wondering about the benefit of debating some issues online. I don’t care about abuse myself, but I know a number of others who feel very threatened by the overly intrusive and abusive behaviour of some.
Are you suggesting my comments to you constitutes abuse?
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow about the credit card information that Cameron Slater might or might not have and the reason why you sent the e-mail to him when your issue seems to be with Cameron Slater and the Labour party has already stated that credit card information was not accessed.
Yes I did say your e-mail was whiny but that is my personal opinion of it when reading it. That is hardly constitutes abuse on any major level in my book but if you were horribly offended I must apologise profusely to you.
Sorry Gosman. I agree your comment was mild in comparison to many.
I was referring more to the stream of texts and emails I am currently receiving.
I am pretty thick skinned about it but I just had breakfast with a few others who have been considerably affected by the application of the internet blowtorch on them.
There has to be a better way.
Sorry to hear that MS. Misuse of telecommunications including email is a crime.
Yes, it is. A very serious crime.
I actually sympathise with you on this. I inwardly cringed when I saw you included your contact details on the e-mail as I could imagine certain people would most likely use that information in rather nasty ways. I might disagree with your political view point but there really is no excuse for that sort of stuff.
Do you get what I mean then MS?
I’m told (elsewhere on this thread) that a climate of political attack and abuse is essential for democracy to function, and to keep lprent in the country.
But (I presume) MS is not being abused by politicians or representatives of political parties. So how does your “new way of doing things” have anything to do with the current issues MS is having?
I was talking about my opinons I posted on and discussed here, about the example of political behaviour set by our so called leaders – that any tactics are fair game as long as you can get away with it. Behaviour that flows out, including to politically minded people who seem to think anything and anyone is fair game in the brawl for power.
I think it’s incredibly sad to see the amount of resources that go into trying to abuse and destroy in political circles. It goes far beyond democratic debate, it’s an excuse to be a power seeking arsehole.
I figured that would be your answer. But don’t you think they you are seriously exaggerating the potential benefits of your so-called ‘new way of doing things’? Obviously, behaviour of political minded people is influenced to some degree by our political leaders. But people aren’t suddenly going to start behaving like angels just because there is less dirt being thrown around at the top.
All I have asked you is if you sent an e-mail to Peter Goodfellow
Is that the same guy that the movie Goodfellas was named after? 😉
How do you threaten someone without threatening someone?
“Hey Mickey, look, you’ve been causing trouble here and you know it. Why would you do that when you know your mum has just had a heart attack and is recovering down at St Vincent’s? And your wife, she’s got that new job at the store down the road hasn’t she? I heard that she likes it there. Now your little Matty he’s at such a sensitive age looking to start school next month. So Mickey, if I were you, I’d just focus on making sure that your family stays healthy and happy, and not worrying about all this other political stuff.
Geddit?”
So you wrote to the National Party and now Slater knows about it?
How does that work?
Wrote to both to put them on notice and to ask for information they held concerning me. Slater responded rather briefly saying “F@#$ off”. His eloquence is mythical. I am thinking of seeking clarification of his position but it is a bit like poking a bear with a stick …
Right.
I suspect that Slater only understands or appreciates certain kinds of messages MS. A polite email is not one of them.
ms – Sounds like a new alien language? Perhaps he has out of planet connections which could explain Whale Oil’s peculiarities.
Nah, don’t bother. Throw it to the Privacy Commissioner.
Wondering about that too. How does Gosman know? Has MS’s letter been published. Good on him by the way.
The Righty Socialist Network. Seriously – they play and co-ordinate as a corporate team.
Yep, possibly the biggest bunch of collectivists around. It’s a pity that the left doesn’t play together so nicely.
Slater has published the letter in it’s entirety on his blog.
So Cameron sees fit to publish the contact details of people who email him.
Cool people you work with, National.
Who works with?
No-one Gos, it’s just some wacky zany conspiracy.
Nobody in their right mind would imagine for a moment that Slater has anything to do with the National Party.
What a preposterous idea.
Finally some sense from you Felix on this whole Cameron Slater is a willing tool of the National Party conspiracy theory ;).
So you wrote to the National Party and now Slater knows about it?
Poodle post ?
Bizarre -with one hand typing damning accusations of dirty tricks from the opposing party, and with the other hand dissing me for suggesting our opposition model of democracy is a tad bent.
So it hasn’t crossed your mind that people aren’t actually dissing you for saying that you aren’t happy with the present model, but are actually calling bullshit on your alternative proposal?
Interesting, Pete. That level of narcissism could take you a long way in your new career.
Pete, why must you resort to these filthy insinuations? Kumbaya mate! Remember?
Let us talk closely know and reason together a way out of this mess, a mess caused by your sad and pathetic wallowing in the politics of personal denigration. First admit that your idea is fail, and then agree with us to move forward, together.
Gerry the Butt is on air saying that he can’t say anything definite. It’s blindingly obvious he says that some people will have to shift. But he doesn’t want to state definite areas, ‘It is a big decision for people, it’s a lifetime investment, but the ducks have to be all lined up. Even after an announcement there will be a considerable time before people can move”.
Every comment he makes shows that he understands the position and then refuses to answer the questions, to make decisions because he has to make decisions that are ‘very, very robust’. Everyone wanting simplistic approaches are being unreasonable. So much for all his powers. I imagine that the decision to appoint him went like this – Gerry is such a mouthy livewire. His family know about timber. He knows about practical working with timber. He is a teacher, (who often think they know everything) and is not a shy communicator. He won’t be happy with his other positions. This will give him something to get his teeth into, which are false, and get him out of our hair here at NACT headquarters where he is a bit of a nit.
Last “It’s about fairness to the property owners”. By that he means, not making precipitate announcements, before all the possibilities have been gravely considered, chewed over like a cow’s cud, and finally excreted to the population. By all means they can’t be consulted with, have location meetings with management and engineers as they wish, who would explain the difficulties and possible and likely solutions and what the hold-ups are caused by. This is the authoritarian way.
Excerpt from the song Show Me from My Fair Lady – sing along!
Words! Words! Words! I’m so sick of words!
I get words all day through;
First from him, now from you!
Is that all you blighters can do?
Has anyone thought of a protest occupation at his place? You know, everyone bring one bucketful of liquefaction from their property to dump on his lawn, just to make a point.
cv That would be a newsworthy action. It seems we can otherwise only act like an army of primed mosquitoes buzzing and biting till he reacts. If we can inject some ideas viruses and set up an itch we might get action and move this organic pile for the benefit of all of Christchurch.
Next idea is that the east side parts to be abandoned for housing should be bought by Landcorp from CERA or other body and then turned into dairy farms. These would use best practice and be models showing good environmental practices using present understanding of using effluent safely. I understand that if treated properly the gases produced can be utilised for energy. Landcorp would hold environmental field days similar to Hamilton and attract farmers and the general public for demonstrations. Landcorp would also develop, assisted by locals, corridors of vegetation for birds etc. Some of the people who had had to abandon their previous houses would have the option of living in hamlets of suitable, practical, low-cost houses on suitable higher ground with a passing grade from engineers. These would be served by buses morning, lunchtime and evening so that they wouldn’t be isolated from the city and wouldn’t need a car to get to work.
Have a listen to Minister Gerry Brownlee in all his glory, all embracing competence, omnipotence, and beneficence:
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20110615-0930-minister_for_earthquake_recovery-048.mp3
That should get more publicity. Knock me over, Gerry. Take my breath away. Quake me. And it’s all so blindingly obvious.
The interview before that with Barry Tutt and Lianne Dalziel is at:
http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/ntn/ntn-20110615-0909-chch_residents_in_limbo_awaiting_geotech_report-048.mp3
These were on ‘9 to Noon’, Radio NZ, today.
I’ve never understood how in a country so full of cow shit, mushrooms can cost $12/kg! Using modern mycological methods we could drink the run off from dairy, but not while we assign more value to ipods than we do to chickens. They are just gaming it to see which way their corporations can make the most money from it and once they’ve been told what they are going to do,I’m sure they will let us all in on it. I thinking your all expecting a little too much from someone who obviously has someone else hand up his am I allowed to say that? I better go read more policy 🙂
Tough peeps of the day, (no really edition):
Ali al-Ekri
Rula al-Saffar
Zahra al-Sammak
Ayat al-Qurmezi
http://www.smh.com.au/world/medicos-tortured-bahrain-trial-told-20110614-1g1vn.html
whilst the poodles were licking their wounds, and the journos were playing three card Monty with the truth, it seems the Education Minister has been busy planning the destruction of one of the few programmes that has consistently helped thousands of POOR children recieve much needed assistance for over fifty years
Tolley wants to close the Health Camps and is not saying what will replace them
This is a very serious attack on one of our country’s most internationally applauded Child-assistance policies. Does anyone have any detail?
http://www.stuff.co.nz/manawatu-standard/news/5140699/Letter-an-insult-to-board
I do know that Health Camps became a sort of mis-nomer years ago. Used to be just for kids who were sick.
But now it is a respite for desperate kids suffering from abuse and learning difficulties and general needs. Kids are there for a limited time and get regular meals, regular recreation, and regular schooling. Suppose the problem is in what happens to those kids after the Camp.
No, my friend was raped by one of the ‘leaders’ at the health camp. I look back at those six weeks as a time that I learnd to harden my heart and really start to hate the world. If there ever was a FAIL in the states attempts to fix my broken family, then this camp was definitely one of them. I do not know of a single other kid who liked or benefited in their time there, far too much like a “getting you ready for prison” and “boot camp” to be anything other than a tool instilling repression in our youth. Good Riddance!
George Carlin on who owns us. It just never get’s old.
Is that old or told? Pretty depressing stuff. And here in NZ? Maybe it is time for lobby groups to be made transparent before it is too late.
Stop the motor of NZ?
Is that the same 1960’s motor we are using powered by milk, cheese and wool?
No, that would be the 1860s one that we still haven’t replaced.
‘Lack of certainty is killing the spirit and economy of Christchurch’
OK. Here is some certainties:
1. Global extraction of conventioanl oil has peaked, so current economic arrangements will disintegrate over the next decade. The globalised, industrialised food system will collapse..
2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered, substantial sea level rise that will cover much of Canterbury is more or less inevitable over coming decades. i.e. Christchurch doesn’t have a long term future.
3. Politicians serve their own interests, and the interests of bankiers and corporations. Any ‘solutions’ they come up with will therefore primarily be for the benefit politicians, bankers and corporations. Since peak oil and abrupt climate change are taboo topics for them, their ‘solutions’ will be completely disconnected from reality.
4. Most people are ignorant of the facts and don’t believe the truth when it is provided.
5 The most important item on the agenda of politicians and the media at this stage in the game is to keep ‘the proles’ misinformed and believing in the system – a bit like Fukishima: ‘everything is under control’.
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come. (Of course, those who run early get the best spots.)
[lprent: This sidetracked way to far from the post. Next time I see you do this, you will get a *long* ban. moving whole thread to OpenMike. ]
It’s not quite time to run for the hills, but that time will come.
In the kind of apocolyptic scenario you are thinking of those who are isolated in the ‘hills’ will be the first to be picked off. It will be those who have strong communities around them who will survive.
You should look at the post-Soviet experience in Russia during the 1990’s to get a better model of what is more likely to happen.
Yeah and Fukushima is a worry. The cover up is worse than Chernobyl.
“2. Governments worldwide have done nothing to prevent severe overheating of the Earth via emissions: now that positive feedbacks have been triggered,”
Which positive feedbacks have been triggered? Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.
“Last news I heard was that were potentially heading into a Maunder Minimum, giving us several decades of cold weather.”
You must have been under a rock for a while, then.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/ice_age/
A little off-topic, I admit. But it might answer the question above
Could be interesting, bit early to bank on it though and this line at the end made me laugh:
The threat of climate change hasn’t resulted in the governments making any radical shifts in policy yet.
Yep, Chch is fucked with higher sea level rises than previously anticipated.
Chch is going to be a salt water swamp by the end of the century.
How can the earth be at “peak oil” when we’re yet to reach peak exploration? Get a grip! I heard this sort of doomsday meanderings back in the 1970s. Why don’t you google “fracking” then re-phrase what you loosely call “known facts?” Idiot!
Micky wrote to Goodfellow and ccd Slater on the email. It was a strange, rambling email that accused all sorts of high crimes on behalf of National for which Micky has no evidence while purportedly defending Labour’s unlawful and non-existent lack of security on its data.
Micky then told Slater he was free to publish the email but only in its entirety. Is it any wonder that Slater did so, and included the contact details that Micky left which were on the email, following Micky’s request to publish in entirety?
Micky if you are Labour’s legal counsel then Labour really is up shit creek. Cam Slater’s blog isn’t even subject to the Privacy Act, so good luck trying to shift that shit up a hill.
Strange? Rambling?
“Dear Peter
There has been some recent publicity concerning the National Party’s downloading of information from a Labour Party server which regrettably was not as secure as it might be.
From today’s National Business Review I note that you have confirmed that a National Party staff member “accessed” the data. By this I anticipate that you mean “downloaded”. The data has also regrettably found its way into the hands of Mr Cameron Slater.
I am pretty sure that some of the data was mine. I donated to the Labour Party to purchase some “Stop Asset Sales” signs as I considered this a worthy cause to support. The idea of selling an interest in our power companies to essentially overseas interests is frankly insane. I paid for the signs by credit card and I am concerned that the National Party now has my credit card’s details.
You can imagine the worry that this has caused me. It is bad enough that your party has my credit card details but there is the strong possibility that your organisation has also facilitated Cameron Slater aka Whaleoil to obtain the same information. I cannot imagine what he will do with this information.
So I seek the following from you:
1. Advice on what data your organisation holds concerning me.
2. Your organisation’s undertaking that it will not disclose any information that it holds concerning me to any third party.
3. Details of information already supplied to Mr Slater concerning the security problems that the Labour Party server had.
4. Details of information supplied to any third party which may include data that relates to me.
Please note that if I suffer any monetary loss because of the actions of your organisation then I reserve the right to seek damages.
I am sending a copy of this email to Mr Slater so that he is also placed on notice. I also seek the same information from him. If he does anything that causes me loss then I reserve the right to seek redress from him personally.
I note that Mr Slater has chosen to print previous emails from Chris Flatt. He is at liberty to print this email but only in full.
Finally please note that I require a response within the next seven days. “
Don’t you think you made a bit of a major assumption there that the National party organisation supplied Cameron Slater with this information.
I’m not sure if people in the organisation had publically come out and denied they had when you wrote off to them but if they had what were you expecting them to say about this? Were you hoping you would catch them out with them stating ‘Well we didn’t give him any of your credit card details so you dont have to w…. D’oh!’?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well? If not, why haven’t you made a formal legal request, you are after all a lawyer?
Also is this a formal legal request for your information back and if so did you formally direct a request to Cameron Slater as well?
There is no prescribed form. All that you have to do is ask in writing for the information.
Have you cancelled your credit card and informed the issuer of the same of the potential lack of security in relation to the card/s in question ?
If not I’d suggest you should do so forthwith.
Micky you have no evidence that the Naitonal Party supplied anything to Slater. In fact you have denials from both the President and Slater himself that any such supply took place. The only pseudo-evidence you have is unsubstantiated allegations made by anonymous bloggers and commenters here at the Standard. Unless you’re preparing to have them appear as witnesses in Court to substantiate their claims which I don’t imagine would please them, then you are pushing shit up hill. I realise you are emotionally fraught at the moment but you would be better off blaming the Labour Party for publishing your personal details on the internet rather than trying to be a nuisance to the National Party who will just laugh your silly attention-seeking correspondence away.
Read Pagani’s blog for a human readable version. The logs are pretty clear if you (like we do) have a record of IP’s that access our site and you look at the back trace.
Quite frankly I think that Goodfellow doesn’t know what people in his organization do. After all someone there has been feeding dirt on him to Whale for some time. You perhaps…
Cameron Slater is a serial liar and completely untrustworthy. If he states something is a fact, then the highest probability is that is largely a fabrication. That is quite easy for me to prove, I’d just point to the various lies he has made about me and the organizations I worked for over the years.
If someone wants to sue on that basis, then go right ahead.
Could be me, but I doubt it Lyn since I’m not actually part of the National Party organisation. But I tell you what, if you go and put a disclaimer about all the party associations that your bloggers have you will have a right to make snide remarks about right wing commenters here. But you might want to read your About policy first.
It is in the about.
You have interesting IP’s and I have seen them before, which tends to make me suspicious. They are covered by the privacy provisions policy but I do scan them when I start putting people into moderation.
BTW: Since we’re talking about accuracy. My name is Lynn, and my partners name is Lyn. I keep thinking that you’re talking to someone else. Use lprent or Lynn please.
There is no disclaimer there of all the party associations of your bloggers Lyn and I wouldn’t expect them to be such, so if you want to go around insinuating party associations of commenters here that’s your choice because it’s your blog, but don’t expect me to think it’s an intellectually consistent approach to take.
What’s your point, PC?
You want readers to think you’re a disinterested neutral objective observer?
Yes there is. They are of the labour movement. A couple of us are Labour party members. Some are union members. Some have no known memberships but will state who they will vote for. Some bemoan that there is no party they will vote for.
At last count there are 30 odd people who have author rights here. Some haven’t used them for some time but did so extensively in the past. Others have only written a couple of posts. If you want to know what there affiliations are – then stop being so damn lazy and read their posts.
Oh and http://thestandard.org.nz/author/admin
You know I didn’t ask for their associations so stop putting up bloody straw men and then getting all pissy on it when I don’t bite. I said you do not publish the party associations of your bloggers. Saying they are of the “labour movement” is not a disclaimer. Write what you like, it’s your blog. You’ve accused me of being a National Party insider who might pass things onto Whale and I’ve said your wrong. Keep that in mind next time you ban somebody for saying one of your bloggers is a Labour Party apparatchik. In the meantime that is not the topic of this discussion and you know it.
I would say that is a pretty clear disclaimer. It covers everyone who authors here because apart from the small number of original authors, it has been there since just after the site started.
You’re not one of those silly buggers that thinks a site like this can be run out of a political organization are you? Bear in mind that the two Bills, the spout and some of the others are usually pretty trenchant critics of the Labour party. Also I don’t think much of the Greens or anyone left of the right of the Labour Party. That this site could be run by a political party that was always a bit of a jerk-off fantasy by the right bloggers losing readers.
Ah, here we go. The little abrasiveness remarks, ignoring requests for the right name use and the accusations of not being intellectually consistent. Yep.
Don’t let him get to you Iprent. He isn’t worth it.
Thought he seemed familiar.
Gngngngn.
yeah mate you are pristine like Switzerland 😀
what jokes you got in your next act?
Have you heard the one about faceless men, the banker, and Merrill Lynch ?
… Umm, you probably have – by now.
You seem to be making the mistake of assuming that because you have evidence of Cameron Slater lying in the past that must mean everything he states subsequently must also be a lie AND that the opposite position from what he has stated about something must be the truth. That is hardly a persuassive argument.
Let me put this another way.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact. I think that he doesn’t truly distinguish between them. I’ve even looked at a couple of his posts on weapons, checked the specs and found that his assertions of fact have no basis in reality.
He is a entertaining storyteller for the credulous right, but you can’t rely on what he says because he routinely embellishes facts so they are unrecognizable.
Some of that happens in some authors posts here as well. But generally they clearly distinguish between what is fact and what is their opinion. Apart from anything else we have a far more active comments section with a much wider range of people who comment. Someone from some viewpoint will tear loose statements of fact apart as embarrassingly as possible. Authors learn that pretty fast.
And yes, you’re correct. I assume that anything that Whale says is wrong until proven otherwise. Why? Because my (and probably most peoples) experience of reading his stuff is that the more breathless his claims are, the more likely it is that he fabricated most of it.
I don’t rely on what Cameron Slater states however that doesn’t mean that the opposite must in fact be true. You should still weigh up the balance of probabilities and evidence.
Probabilities and evidence? yes, that would be the way to go about it.
That would be good – I haven’t seen you ever do that though.
It is very hard to find posts where Slater does differentiate between what is his opinion and what is fact.
That can also apply to many of the posts here, laughably (or sadly) appearing as extreme propaganda. Just look at the headlines. Those that want them to be true will buy them, but they are hardly going to convince anyone else of a political alternative with any competence.
I know this isn’t a Labour blog – I agree, a party couldn’t do something like this – but a notable proportion of the posts here do nothing to help make Labour look like it has anywhere near recovered from 2008.
Whether the extreme posting comes from Labour or not the perceived link is there and it’s easy to think you wouldn’t want that lot anywhere near the liquor cabinet let alone cabinet in parliament.
The quality of writing you should be concerned about as a budding young politician with 15 years of private sector R&D experience is not at The Standard, it is within the MSM.
I agree – but how can one address that?
Where is this denial from the president?
As I recall from his statement he specifically avoided making that particular denial. Gotta link?
Try this Felix. It’s been linked to here several times already: http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/national-admits-labour-data-breach-denies-passing-names-whaleoil-ck-95242
National’s president, Peter Goodfellow, confirmed a head office staffer accessed the data but denied it was passed on.
Or maybe you missed this:
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10732187
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.
He said today National had written to Labour to say it had not passed on any information and did not intend to.”
That says that the data was not passed on.
It does not say that they didn’t instruct Whale about how to get access to it himself. Which is what is being suggested by felix
BTW: Looks like that took Whale some time to get right. The logs show him as being somewhat tentative. Whoever was doing it at the National part was better technically.
You’re the accuser here lyn, you have to prove your case with evidence. You have made assumptions based on plausibility, not inspected evidence and weighed up probabilities. They aren’t the same thing.
Goodfellow also didn’t deny that he was the shooter on the grassy knoll. Are you going to call the FBI to insist they make an arrest?
So far I haven’t even seen any evidence that Slater has done, or will do, anything illegal with the data. If you or somebody else could enlighten me on that I would be very grateful.
Portion Control telling lprent what he has or hasn’t done.
Thankfully we’re not writing here to satisfy you are we mate?
So he did, my mistake.
But what Lynn says is very interesting and a far more likely way for an organisation wanting to keep the dogs at arm’s length to operate.
What Lynn says (I apologise I’ve been calling him Lyn accidentally) on this is diversion and not backed up by evidence. If you want examples of third party attacks then you only have to look at the attacks that Pagani and Micky did on Simon Lusk and Whale a few weeks back before Trevor got in on the act. And if you are talking about third party attacks on political opponents by proxy then it would be very rich for that allegation to be coming from bloggers here at the Standard.
As for the plausibility of Lynn’s claim of an association between Whale and the National Party, are you fucking serious? Whale fucking hates the National Party, has as far as I know never said anything nice about Goodfellow (in fact he waged a no-holds barred campaign against him) and would quite happily see them stomped into the ground with Act taking their place.
Wow, you’re very much “in the loop” politically, aren’t you?
Amazing that I haven’t ever seen your handle before. lolz.
Portion Control = Damage Control
Hmmm
Simon Lusk is someone whose name I did not know until recently. He is implicated in the take over of the ACT party and also the anti MMP campaign. He is high up in the National Party and has significant links to the Beehive and Joyce. His name starts getting mentioned and then PC shows up and takes umbrage at this. Why the sensitivity?
I would not describe comments about Lusk as being “attacks”. He appears to me to be very competent at what he does.
Of course I could speculate at PC’s links to Lusk but lprent would not like it …
You can speculate all you like Micky, just as you speculated on Lusk and his so called high up connections in the Beehive which sound more like more fantasy from you of the kind that had you send the silliest lawyer’s letter to Peter Goodfellow that I have seen in a very long time. I’ve never met the guy and I tend to think if he was such a mover and shaker in the National Party more people would have heard of him.
“National Party president Peter Goodfellow told NZPA a head office staffer had accessed the data but only out of concern that National’s own website had similar vulnerabilities.”
Love it, I have a possible vulnerability on my computer so I take the liberty of testing it on somebody elses without their permission. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
so much for “rambling”. Comprehension problem, Perception Control?
Well said McFlock
I would say definite comprehension and logical deductive reasoning problems. Have just commented on such to PC on “Silence of the Poodles” .Potty Control would seem to be a more appropriate moniker as a constant self reminder. “Must control pottiness, must control pottiness…….’
Reading about Christchurch Mayor Bob Parker stating he would not continue if he couldn’t have his choice of City Manager struck warning bells in my mind. It sounds like a step along the path to American cronyism.
There a leader (mayor) gets elected, and can sack the administration and bureaucrats of the previous leader and instal his own handpicked people. Our idea has been that the bureaucrats are largely servants of the government working under the law for the people and serving whichever party gets into power in parliament. But they are supposed to be able to offer free and frank advice that is not partial to the leader’s whims and bents. It’s a good idea and it shouldn’t be countenanced to have it subverted.
I don’t trust this new “Portion Control” person. He/she has made some very sideways and very weasely statements in the last couple of days.
Looks like someone sent here on a very specific mission.
I reckon he thinks he’s smart and he actually wants to call himself politically correct but I think it’s about damage control.
Or as McFlock says “Perception Control”
LOL
Your labour party handlers told you to say that when you ran out of lies to distract from Labour breaking the law by not protecting personal data didn’t they felix?
LOL, the problem is you have been far too obvious and many people here are thinking exactly what felix is.
Congrats PC,
You managed posting here for the first time to end up with only cowboy hat boy Gosman as your mate.
Handler??? Wow how’s that for thinking that people need to be handled in order to be able to see through you. So Cosby and Textor. LOL.
Travellerev if I can go to the effort of correcting myself when I spell Lynn’s name wrong then you can at least go to the effort of spelling my uncle Lynton’s name right. It’s CROSBY.
It makes jokes tooo!!!
Did you just pull the “I know you are, but what am I?” card, Percussion Cap?
Don’t be asking for a pay rise just yet, is my advice….
Yeah, these Labour party handlers are driving me nuts actually Codpiece Potion. I just want to do beat poetry but they’re holding me back and stifling my creativity.
ROFL. Great names!!!
It’s PC gone mad!
Haven’t seen him today. Maybe it’s just PC gone?
Not gone
He did improve markedly with his interactions after I lavished some personal attention on him with a auto-moderation clamp and a sarcasm reply goad.
😈
I don’t have him banned so it wasn’t me.
Not everyone has handlers, you know. Or maybe you don’t.
but if we don’t have handlers, how do we know what to say? It’s not like we’d just like honestly believe that the governments objective is just to favour the rich and fuck the country…
Why is Simon Power giving a speech in the General Debate, that focuses on attacking Goff’s leadership?
Oh and Finlayson is accusing Labour MPs of engaging in trivialities like flame wars & cycle races.
Yeah, did it seem like it was the exact same speech that half a dozen Nat MPs have read out every Wednesday for the last 3 years?
Yes, it seems to be a constant diversionary activity for National to bash Goff.
Surely Finlayson can’t be serious, accusing Labour of not being serious about the important and urgent politics because they do blogging stuff, and cycle rides. Meanwhile, where is JonKey? Dancing awkwardly down a fashion runway? Joking his way from one photo op to the next? And as for his stand-up routine that he used to deliver his budget speech?
Carol, the problem with mud slinging from the Nats regarding Goff is that mud just may be slung back. What a dirty tricks election it is going to be. The Nats have to watch their back as they never know when a blogger will pull them up for a similar thing they are accusing a Labour MP about.
Since about 21.00 last night, I have been reading newspaper clippings I had put in a big envelope dated from 1989 to 1996. I am very depressed to see that everything NACT are doing has been done before – in 1984-99. some changes are so long standing that I had forgotten things were ever different. Yellow Buses for instance – have been owned by the international company Stagecoach since at least 1993, yet I had forgotten that they were ever Government (or Council) owned until among my clippings I found a heap of objections to Jenny Schippelfat selling Yellow Buses off…. It is mega-depressing that it’s all deja vu all over again – the same anti-bemeficiary letters to the Ed., the same replies – the same think tanks putting their ideas forward. It’s all worse now though – in 1991-2, there was great indignation about DPB women being work-tested when their youngest child was 7 years old. Good grief, that was bad enough…. One thing I have noticed – I came across only one reference to DPB women ‘breeding for a living”. Maybe that meme hadn’t got started then, or it wasn’t widespread? Or maybe I just didn’t save in this inadvertent time capsule, any reference to it?
The more we change the more we stay the same. Your research is a bit depressing isn’t it Vicky. Sad to think that the population isn’t outraged by the thought of “making” mothers go back to work when the child is 12 months. Remember when Key suggested 6 years last year? He got away with that and so they seem hell bent on getting away with the sooner.
Wonder how many mothers (fathers?) on DPB would be affected and how many kids?
Oh yes, it’s deeply depressing! (I still have more clippings to go through, I am deciding what to get rid of, as I will one way or another, possibly, I hope, be moving soon!) It’s amazing how much rubbish one accumulates over 15 years in the same dump!) The scary thing is that in all those years, nothing has permanently changed…, (From 1999 to 2008, it did, but the changes didn’t stick..)
Boiling of frogs springs to mind. People now accept things they would have argued against in the 90s…
Fluff and a Jab
Green Party MP Metiria Turei asked some very important questions of John Key in Parliament today. Once again, the Prime Minister wasn’t there so Bill English tried to answer for the absentee leader.
In one particular answer given by the flailing Bill English, he said that the Government was helping to reduce the huge divide between the haves and have-nots ie disparity by improving immunisation and the Green’s inspired home insulation scheme. He must be joking!
Anyone watching Back Benchers? Simon Bridges seems to be having a hard time tonight, he looks tired and all of his yelling and talking over of others is quite telling. Big ups to Wallace Chapman who’s done an excellent job in tolerating his behaviour all night.