Tīwaiwaka wahine would be female fantail; Gezza, but ka te pai for making the effort. Less poetically, it was probably after the insects that were stirred up by your presence – which is why they seem to be such a friendly bird to humans.
“tīwakawaka
1. (noun) fantail – a small, friendly, insect-eating bird of the bush and domestic gardens which has a distinctive tail resembling a spread fan.
Nā, kia mōhio tātou, ko ngā tīwaiwaka e tītakataka nei ka hura rā hoki ngā hukumaro ki runga, ka riro ko te upoko ki raro (TTT 1/10/1929:1086). / Now, we should know that fantails flit about opening their tail feathers up and with their head going down.
(Te Pihinga Study Guide (Ed. 1): 2; Te Māhuri Textbook (Ed. 2): 182;)”
It’s also known as he pīwakawaka in some other parts of te motu.
A wahine toa Māori friend of mine in her 60s up in Northland always shortens the name to tīwaka when she writes about hers up there – which is why I did. (Thanks for the reminder about the macron being needed on the ī, btw.)
PS: No, it's not after insects stirred up by me. I saw it flitting about in the trees across the stream. I'm just standing by my fence, not moving. I called it over. I know how to mimic a tīwakawaka call.
That is impressive; Gezza, my own whistling has a half octave range, and even then; there is a rather wet slurring to the pitch (probably learning brass at school messed up my embouchure habits for whistling, and other flutes). Āe, ngā reo ā-iwi certainly do make the language interesting – if it was intentional and had precedent then you're not wrong,
My tīwaka call is a variation on a “kissy” sound. I suck air thru my teeth. A bit hard to describe further beyond that. I can get it to sound quite loud & it carries across the stream.
Another neat trick a lady friend of mine in Huntly uses is to rub two pieces of polystyrene foam together. I tried it, & it works on my fantails here. 👍🏼
My Māori friend up north lives off grid with her partner in te Hokianga. Her tūrangawaewae is East Coast tho. She spent many years as a possum hunter & trapper. Now she’s becoming quite a tohunga rongoā.
Off to get my second shot of vaccine today; more like 9 weeks after the first than the intended 12, but school holidays start at the end of the week and I want to be over any reactions and side effects before I am being scamped 24/7 again. I had the soreness at injection site for a day or two last time, expecting the wiped-outness this time around, so have got a bunch of DVDs from the library (including the reCGed Sagan Cosmos!) and arranged for a friend to come over to watch them (and over me) the next couple of evenings. I did the same for them a couple of weeks back when they had their 6 week jab. Though that was more snuggling together in front of a winter fire.
Vacci-dating is a very 2021 form of social interaction.
Ad, I was trying to imagine what your pain and torment was like, having likened it to that of Lawrence of Arabia. Was it like suffering riding a camel cross-legged across a stony desert all day with little water? Still, he got to be a wise man, did TE Lawrence, after the experience, with his "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".
Then I realised you had just got through a bad day by watching the film, not by reliving it. I'm glad you're better. My second jab took my energy so that a usual Sunday morning hill walk climbing 400 metres had me stopping five times on the uphill stretch-usually one stop 'for the view'.
Lawrence taught me that the major religions all came out of the desert as a result of encounters with open, starry night skies. I still seek spiritual solace that way- without the panadol, but sometimes with a wee dram……..
COVID is certainly the disease of the unvaccinated according to healthcare workers. And now thanks to “Roger’n’Ruth’s” toxic neo liberal legacy, it is also the disease of the alienated working class poor.
It is pretty clear what needs to be done, albeit obviously too late for this current virus outbreak.
–Pay all citizens a basic income via IRD (recovered via taxation from higher earners)
–Fare free public transport and free Wifi nationwide
–Rent control at all times
–Rent freeze and mortgage holiday during any lockdowns
–State house and apartment mega build, emergency housing and homeless tiny house build in all towns and regions
But what is the Govt.’s latest move? relax conditions for migrant workers just as upward pressure on wages was building in a tighter labour market! Yes migrant workers have been treated appallingly for ever and redress is needed, but really employers and the NZ petit bourgeois just get such favoured treatment from this majority Labour Govt. Bring on 2023 and 2026 I say.
Bribery and punishment rarely work to incentivise good behaviour, so John Key should put down the wooden spoon about vaccine-hesitant people, writes Jess Berentson-Shaw
So when I read John Key suggesting that “incentives” should make up a core part of our vaccination strategy (that means offering a mix of material “rewards” for getting vaccinated and sanctions for not), I rolled my eyes.
Save us from conservative men with opinions telling us that what hesitant people really need to get themselves vaccinated is a bit of tough love. It's the rhetorical equivalent to shouting “boot camps!” in response to youth crime.
Poor old conservative John Key. He doesn't get the respect now that he believes that he deserves.
It's a good scheme – time to break with that strange conservative reflex of Peter Dunne's that has NZ trailing liberalization even of countries as backward as the US.
Better for everyone that gangs are mellow – and vaccinated.
Apropos the notion in National's pandemic response of purpose-built quarantine facilities near Auckland airport to open in early 2022. On CNN today:
China has built a 5,000-room quarantine centre for overseas arrivals.
– A (NZ) $378 million, 5,000-room quarantine facility for incoming travellers opening in Guangzhou.
– Size of 46 football fields, took less than three months to be built from scratch on outskirts of the city.
– Travellers transferred directly from the airport on buses, confined to their rooms for at least two weeks. Three meals a day delivered by robots — minimized direct contact with staff.
– More than 4,000 workers assigned to the construction site. The facility completed earlier this month and a first batch of 184 medical staff moved in last week
– Designed as bubble isolated from rest of city – travellers, AND workers placed under effective lockdown.
– Medical staff work 28 days at the facility, go through week of quarantine themselves, and another two weeks of home quarantine before allowed to go outside.
That can happen in a dictatorship with unlimited resources.
NZ has a massive shortage of construction workers Shortages of building materials many imported from China supply constrictions ,lack of ships operating due to covid.
I have observed the calls to have unlimited resources, instant, dictatorship type action.
Do you think it's funny when such calls come from those who freak out and scream "Dictatorship!" when there are rules about wearing facemarks on public transport and suggestions about wearing them in public?
Don't you think it's funny when people anti a particular government demand unlimited resources, instant action then if anything is done at haste to meet the perceived needs of a situation, wail "What about consultation?!"
New Covid-19 poster child, Ireland, has 40,000 active cases and recorded 40 deaths yesterday. Bloomberg says Ireland is the best place to be right now.
National wants purpose built quarantine centre by early 2022. Have they been asked just how that would be done? Land to be acquired, council consents to be applied for, architects and designers selected to draw up plans, contractors and sub-contractors to be tendered for, building materials to be ordered and trades people to be hired all in the next 5-6 months for completion in early 2022. One of the nuttiest ideas ever.
Government has already been working on this for some time and National knows this. National pretends to come up with new innovative plans whilst painting the Government as a shambolic useless lot and then claiming the credit when it is actually happening AKA I told you so. Cheap lazy political point-scoring and grandstanding and not fit for Government.
there appears to be an almost without exception complete media black out on the Select Committee Hearing on the BMDRR Bill
So hears my update.
Select committee members are showing very overtly they are biased in favour of the bill when submitters are against the bill.
Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this biasis.
One MP , Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, posted a screenshot from the zoom call, with a submitter who opposes the bill accusing them of hate speech. This is likely defamation, but also completely undermines the Select Committee process as it amounts to intimidation. ie if you present an opposing view to the views the select committee clearly holds, you risk being put on FB and acccused of hate speech
With counting almost complete the numbers against the bill outweigh the numbers for the bill by 75 to 25%
There have been a number of Maori wahine presenting against the bill
Pasifica have also presented against the beill
Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle are part of an group of prominant older feminists who are presenting against the Bill and calling for a Royal Commission of Enquiry into sex and gender.
Stuff, Herald, TVNZ Radio NZ Newshub………..your welcome
I have been really shocked by the contempt shown towards some submitters by members of the select committee. Shamefully, for me as a Labour Party member, the worst behaviour is coming from Labour MPs. I have seen eye rolling, scrolling through phones, frankly hostile and confrontational conduct. Deborah Russell has finished a day of intemperate conduct on the select committee and gone home to tweet that she wants to shout "oh do F*ck off" to submitters.
Along with Kerekere's facebook abuse of one group submitting, and Rachel Boyack's barely concealed contempt, sitting pointedly scrolling through her phone during one group's submission, the whole process has been an appalling display of arrogance.
Committee members do not have to share the beliefs of submitters, but should have sufficient EQ to be able to listen respectfully and politely clarify points as required.
The conduct of the committee has been an absolute fiasco. Only Ian McKelvie and Nicola Griggs have shown any ability to conduct themselves appropriately. (It galls me to say this as I pathologically hate the Nats).
What on earth are the party chief whips doing, allowing this to happen? Do these MPs not know what their roles and responsibilities are? Do they not get some training on parliamentary processes and appropriate behaviour? Mallard has already said on Twitter that he has no role in sanctioning misbehaving MPs on select committees.
The whole thing has been a shameful episode for democartic processes. Labour should thank their lucky stars that the opposition are in such disarray.
A member who has (whether in the House or outside the House) made an allegation of crime or expressed a concluded view on any conduct or activity of a criminal nature, identifying by name or otherwise a person as being responsible for or associated with that crime, conduct, or activity (referred to as apparent bias), may not participate—
The Births deaths , marriages and relationships Bill is really about being able to change gender.
For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision
Regardless of one's views about the bill, members of the public should be able to submit to the select committee without fear of intimidation from MPs. If you support democratic processes, it is really important that the integrity of the select committee process is preserved. If this becomes the new standard of conduct for discussing differing views we are heading to a very dark place.
No eye rolls arent intimidation, but i imagine it could be intimidating to some presenters.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech. Lets call it what it is intimidation
So if I am presenting the next day and am in disagreement with this bill, it would be realistic for me to fear the same thing happening.
The hate speech thing is a smear. Its intimidation and inappropriate for a MP to do this, probably breaks the harmful digital communication lawas and is in fact libleless.
FFS I thought you guys were all about the "safe spaces". Seems like that doesn't apply to women who disagree with you.
And where are the men on the Standard? Heads buried in ideology.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech
Can you please link, and be specific. I looked the other day and the FB post I saw didn't quite match your description. One of the reasons we ask for links a lot here is so that people can see what is being referred to and in context. It makes discussion much better when we are all working off the same page.
Ghostwalker, try reading John Minto submission which is againgst SOP59
or the Correction Officers who has a trans kid, but is against the bill cause he has seen a number of pregnancies in women's prison due to transgender women being there.
Fowls with older prominant feminists is fantastic (Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle, a former Green MP). They are against gender id and are calling for a royal commission into sex and gender.
or save Women's Sports oral submission with one of the submitters giving evidence of how transgender females are already in women's only spaces and the Bill will only accerelate and legitimize this. She gives a case of a gym where a transwomen sat and watched as women and girls got changed. So is anyone whose pro this bill alarm bells going off yet. The gym claimed they could do nothing which probably could be challenged, but not once this bill comes in.
Their is a Pacific Island GP who is really pissed off about this bill and the Conversion therapy bill, and she claims the lack of consultation with the PI community shows how hollow the apology for the dawn raids are. The is a huge number of Asian people submitting against this bill..
There are Christians of course, Lesbian groups, Maori wahine, women, mothers. There are people who wrote things like “Just don’t”. and is the Government completely mad.
btw, for clarity, the difference between the two comments is that the second one is someone reporting what they saw in the video. The first is saying that a sitting MP made a defamatory statement. The latter needs to be linked. The former, it would be good if people got in the habit of putting up links, but it's not particularly contentious.
(I don't think what Kerekere did is defamatory, because I think defamation needs to be a) a specific allegation or statement, 2) made against a specific person/s. EK's behaviour is appalling though)
Thanks weka. I did make that assumption when posting the link, but thought I'd better check given we are at the sharp end of the day.
I was disillusioned with the integrity of the select committee process when I attended one of the last minute ones held in Auckland for the TPPA. Both David Shearer and David Parker remain in my memory as equivalent to the eye-rolling and disdainful behaviour Anker relates in this instance.
It strikes me as farcical to refer to consultation conducted in such a way as democratic. I criticised such behaviour when it was exhibited by a National government. I am critical of the same behaviour and lack of genuine democracy being demonstrated by members of this government.
thanks, that's very helpful, I didn't know if what the Labour/GP women are doing was out of the norm for SCs or not. Very disappointing that it's normal, as well as the disappointment for this particular group of women.
What i really would like to know is if the Persons of the Green Party realise that in the end they too – like the persons of the Green Party in Germany have just a few days ago realised – that they will lose their jobs and their Persons Roll and their Persons Quota to Transwomen.
Next a transwomen to stand for Persons Co leadership of the Green Party.
But the real reason they are just being rude and obnoxious is that the fix is in, and this is just a wee spectacle to pretend that the democratic process is still functioning in their own parties.
So to finish up, lets discuss what some opposition party has done wrong today.
I wish to ask that you do not use such misogynist language towards women posters here. You are free to disagree, but sexist name calling is not appropriate on a left wing blog.
When its avoiding the core issue and complaining about 'process'… its Karens. …or Ill call it what it is privileged older white women.
[yes, you can name privileged, older white women (assuming you are being accurate). Because when you do that the political argument you are trying to make is clear and people can argue for or against it. If you use the term Karens, which is a perjorative, it derails the debate, by people having to stop and deal with the sexism. It’s tedious af. If you use Karens again like this, I will moderate accordingly. This isn’t FB or twitter. There is an expectation that people will engage here in robust debate not lazy slurs and throw away marginalising dismissals. – weka]
Given you don't know whether those you are referring to are:
privileged, older or white,
your justification is poor, immature and murky.
The only constant that exists in the use of Karen, is the biological sex of those who have it as a name. Since it is a derogatory term, it is both a lazy, and misogynistic label.
@Ghostwhowalksnz Good God. Not everything is about transgender. And I have never stated that I do not support their wish to have an official record of their gender identity. I always have supported that wish, and still do. Link to where I have stated otherwise (alternatively, stop making shit up)
Now, despite that misdirection, I believe your commitment to your repeated use of Karen can be seen as delighting in the misogynistic term it really is. But I guess as long as social media condones it, you don't have to take responsibility.
Karen – Seems to me to be a lazy, misogynistic term that seems to be an acceptable form of "bitch". And yes, I know that when this term goes, another will take its place., but…
… try to be brave, and say what you really think without a socially accepted veneer of sophistication.
Have you looked at your birth certificate ?It requires sex, not gender.The bill refuses to denote the differences between sex and gender.Pretty poor law making
Ghostwalker this is the bit you omitted about bias.
233 Complaints of apparent bias
(1) A complaint of apparent bias on the part of a member of a select committee may be made by any member (whether or not a member of the committee) or by any person appearing or about to appear before the committee whose reputation may be seriously damaged by proceedings of the committee.
(2) A complaint of apparent bias must be made, in writing, to the chairperson.
(3) The chairperson, after considering any information or comment from the member against whom the complaint is made, decides whether the member is disqualified by reason of apparent bias.
(4) Any member of a committee who is dissatisfied with the chairperson’s decision on a complaint of apparent bias may refer the matter to the Speaker for decision. The Speaker’s decision is final.
When I rechecked Rule 233 it says Witness Expenses ?
Complaints of Apparent bias section is my quote:
Rule 237 Complaints of apparent bias
Standing Orders By Chapter Select Committes 23 Oct 2020
You may be referring to an older version, however that version doesn’t dis allow MPs showing bias towards submitters.
Im sure single issue zealots mostly get that response
It is not about people changing gender – it is about people creating a biological fiction – that they have changed SEX – and cementing that as a legal fiction. There is a process to do that now – which has the appropriate safeguards against abuse. The proposal in the SOP enables anyone to make that change by was of a Statutory Declaration with very few safeguards.
Let's have a higher standard for ourselves and our MPs that what you have proposed as acceptable. The select committee process is supposedly a part of a democratic process, not performance art. (Mind you, after attending some of the TPPA submissions this assumption was fairly quickly dispatched for me.)
There is a high degree of arrogance to misuse such processes while calling them democratic.
I believe that arrogance has also interfered with the public discussion on the bill, which leads to you making such statements as:
"For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision"
Many of the submissions I have read have not been about this at all.
It has been about the failure of the bill, and the MP's promoting it, to outline how the practical application of this bill in real life may impact on issues not related to birth certificates or transgender people.
Their (I suspect deliberate) conflation of biological sex, gender and gender identity in public statements or meetings has made any discussion fraught with misunderstandings and confusion. I hold those MP's partly responsible for the oppositional nature of public discussions. They are definitely responsible for not doing more to bring clarity into the public sphere.
If you cannot see that there has been a failure to address the possible impact on removing the safeguarding and gatekeeping process and replacing it with a statutory declaration, then you haven't gone past the basics of this issue.
The current process is not there purely as a remnant of prejudice, it was a safeguard put in place to ensure that those who wanted to make such a change had contacted the necessary services and experienced what this may mean.
Regardless, of how impatient or desperate some are to make immediate change, this safeguarding process should not be completely removed. For the well-being of those making the change. Yet, no support services or counselling or medical advice requirement is included in this self-id process. That's arguably going to be a negative as time goes on, as those who required help for other issues, sought gender change as a solution when it was perhaps not appropriate. Given the impact on mental health for many making the transition, this removal takes away the pressure on successive governments to provide necessary services. A better solution would be to demand investment in the provisions of specialist services, and for universal access to streamline the process rather than do away with it altogether. What seems like an ideal proposal may turn out to be a negative.
The other issue is, that the self-id process as proposed, will be available to all members of the public. Not just those within the transgender community.
There has been no clarity from the MP's on how they will stop those people with malicious intent from using this process to remove their personal (possible criminal) histories from public view, easily change names and do so with an intent to commit crimes, harm and fraud. If this process is misused in such a way, this is also not good for the transgender community.
And that's without getting into the impact of these changes on the biological sex class of women.
It is a well-intentioned but poorly thought out piece of legislation, presented badly by the MP's promoting it.
Yes. As overseas its actually the amateur implications of this change which have the striking impact. Many things (such as removing single sex/female) categories will be removed justified by the overarching law change. This will happen even though there is no legal requirement to change and the justification claimed will be that the law has changed requiring this.
The supplementary order to the bill was presented as non controversial, having very little effect on the general population , and "bringing us into line with overseas countries"
I'm concerned that it gives legal recognition to a vastly changed concept of what the words female and woman means.This without wide consensus or consultation with the 50% of the population who this affects.
It seems there's been a total flip, now biological sex is a cultural concept (easily discarded with hormones and medical corrections) and gender is the new destiny, originating in the womb as an innate felt reality, trumping sex.
In the process of ratifying the new orthodoxy , and in the name of inclusivity , natal women are neutered, their breasts not to be mentioned in connection with milk, the femaleness of their periods reduced to desexed menstruating bodies.
We can't say pregnant women it seems , for risk of upsetting those who deny their material sex in favour of a preferred gender Ashley Bloomfield could have said pregnant men and women but perhaps he opted for brevity.
I'm very wary of changes in language to fit a new orthodoxy, pushed in large part by academia in the social sciences .
If you remove the sex class then you no longer have 'discrimination on the basis of sex'.
One day some Persons with prostates will realise that they too lost their sex status, but by then it will be too late.
What i want to know is, if sex is removed, say a Cop were to arrest you, can you be cavity searched by a Transwomen? Must a female cop cavity search a transwomen in a prison? Can transmen be drafted? Can in the future persons with intact reproductive facilities be compelled to breed children for those that have been neutered in the name of trans? Will be a surrogate incubator be a career choice for persons who no longer find employment? Same for the production of human milk, can a person be compelled by Winz to be a wet nurse? If a child is born to a person and a transwomen (who is the ejaculator in this case) will the state be the parent, as persons in prison can not consent to sex? And so on and so forth.
Already in a woman's rape crisis refuge in Scotland, a distraught woman victim asked to have a true female deal with her and administer the rape kit.Instead she was chided and told if she would not accept a transwoman (who knows what stage of transition)she would just have to stomach it and get over her bigotry.
Gender Identity is the new Immortal Soul. Anybody who supports the separation of Church and State should be concerned by this new ideology which seeks to use the levers of the State to privilege it above other belief systems. There is no more physiological evidence for the possession of a gender identity than there is for the possession of an immortal soul. And we all know what happened last time the populace was required to accept the beliefs of its rulers.
UK Labour now openly identifying as unelectable is basically healthy. Under Corbyn they were still making it a secret that they didn't want to be elected.
and a trans woman from the UK Debbie Hayton, who is I understand a science teacher also submitted. She is against gender self ID as she says it will back fire against trans people as women will protect their spaces “they have to”
Never mind, them persons/people/others will get used to their new status of person/people/other. And frankly we should abolish 'persons' rolls, or 'quota persons' they are as defunct as much as same ‘sex’ spaces.
No, I just followed the link that visubversa supplied and found the submission he had made.
From what I can see he is a blogger, architect and contributor to some online media sources.
The reference he makes to the redacted and poor RIS (Regulatory Impact Statement) was mentioned by a commentator a while ago. I did have a look at the time, but am not familiar with the regular form or nature of it, so couldn't comment on its comparison to others.
Thanks for the link. The way she writes about her acceptance of herself after many years as a trans woman chimes in with what I've taken from discussions with a person in my wider family circle who transitioned more than 20 years ago, and these discussions (and my experiences as a biological woman) are where my thoughts about this legislation fit.
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
So why is the government not considering making it mandatory for other risk based industries such as construction workers/road workers as well as work places where interaction with the public is high?
Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that we now have vaccines in the country and thus people that were stuck in Group 3 and 4 can actually get vaccinations?
Sorry, I forgot to put quote marks around the main paragraph:
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
That was the conclusion based on their responses – hesitancy due to misinformation. But they soon changed their minds when it became mandatory.
No-one is suggesting it should be across the board, but obviously making it mandatory for all high risk areas is a no-brainer.
Is this just me feeling a rant is coming on. Michael Venus is "thinking about" sueing the Gov because he cannot secure an MIQ spot. Firstly he is a professional sportsman and should be expecting problems flying in and out of the country and just grow a spine and get on with it. he is now going on to San Diego presumably to another fixture.
Secondly his wife and two young children are joining him there plus his mother. His mother is joining them and has quit her job as an emergency department nurse, a sorely needed job which will be missed and training will take up valuable time to replace her. Reason being for her to be going is that she will be a stay at home mum as Venus's wife will be working over there.
Now bugger me, Venus surely has sufficient PA earnings that he could afford a nanny for his kids and secondly why should it be an expectation that his mother will have to take over his wife's role. His mum may be more than happy to do this but the sense of entitlement Venus has, for thinking of sueing the Government and the cheek of even asking his mum to look after his kids.
Sorry but I am over entitled prats and their whinging and whining. Grow a spine Venus and get a life.
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
Apart from your dislike of persons discussing the issue, could you explain how you compare a current political action i.e. the discussion of bill that has wide ramifications in this country to the US election?
And this is the open Mike? So why not discuss it here, other then that some persons may not disagree with what some other persons have to say?
I have no dislike of any person having discussions on this issue although sometimes take offence at some of the language used. The comparison with the US election, as I stated, was based on the level of clogging up Open Mike. I am not trying to stifle your conversation but suggesting people from either side could CHOOSE to go to a dedicated post to voice their opinions on this topic.
As you say being such a critical situation affecting 50% of this countries population, I would have thought you would welcome the suggestion to have a daily post dedicated to the discussion until the Bill is finalised.
I'd like discussion to stay on Open Mike. The media have blacked out this issue of the BMDRR. So I kind of see it as my civic duty to get some information out to others.
I'm sure it has been done before. That is… a rolling post for a specific subject which is ongoing and controversial, thus freeing up OP for more general subject matter.
I am not sure what the language is you are referring to. I think you called me on transgender ideology. I hopefully clarrified to you that it is the ideology and how it is being imposed that I have a big problem with.
As I said to Ad yesterday I have been commenting on TS since 2013. I have never been warned, banned or had a threat of a ban in all that time.
I think I am pretty reasonable with my comments. I have had a lot of stuff chucked at me, but only when I am commenting on this issue. I have been accused of coming across as unhinged, I have been told I am stupid, I have been told I side with the idiot right wingers and I had it implied I made some sort of lewd suggestion about someone taking their daughter into a change room.
I post on this site, because there is a media black out about this bill. What I reported today was pretty factual about the. a Select Committee. Many regular commentators were keen to engage about this topic.
I suppose I am hoping at some stage some of the people on this site who aren't supportive of those of us who are gender critical may actually be able to acknowledge that there is a problem for women and girls with gender ideology and the attempt to legislate for self identification. Already male bodied people are turning up in women's spaces, eg. a transwoman in a change room watching women and teen girls change. I will never stop trying to bring this to peoples attention, because it is not o.k.
Attempted public discussions around the issue, well – I’m sure you can find some cancelled ones.
Just as I’m sure you can find some that weren’t cancelled.
Molly, one of Anker's assertions @12.1.1.3 was that "there is a media black out about this bill."
As "this bill" has been referred to in a few media reports (not a lot, I would agree), it seems inflammatory to mischaracterise the paucity of reporting as a "media black out", and I believe it’s unlikely to foster further dialogue.
Just my opinion – we can agree to disagree – peace.
Molly, the only times I have engaged on this topic is when I have taken offence at the language being used directed at the Trans Community. With your "be quiet, be quiet" narrative you are wrong. As I have stated above, today I have asked for a daily post dedicated to the discussions, that is hardly trying to shut you up, but when one does take offence to a "women with penises" remark they are jumped on for highlighting its offence. I personally would rather this matter be handled by the moderators, as I had addressed them, and am happy to leave it up to them, without me making further space on Open Mike.
"None of you need bother answering, the question is rhetorical. " and which you walked away from.
Open Mike 26/08/2021 which was more productive, but showed a tendency for you to say what you wanted, which was responded to, but you walked away again instead of addressing what other commentators had said. This pattern of expecting and receiving a response, but not returning the courtesy has been noticeable on this issue.
This pattern is not a discussion, it is a lecture.
I have not lectured any of you, you however!. I have highlighted when offensive remarks (imho) have been made, and no I am not going back to each thread to highlight them again, many of you have been party to the threads so will be well aware of the words used so I will not re-hash them. I will be very happy to have a discussion with Weka, who I addressed the last comment you mentioned to. This comment was addressed to the Moderators and as such we can, as Anker has done, and Sabine has alluded to, wait with patience to see what Weka or other moderators have to say, and/or voice your opinion to them why continuing the topic on Open Mike is a good idea. .
No, RBO. I think you are mistaken in thinking you have made a genuine attempt at discussion and sharing viewpoints. Despite people taking time to engage and respond to each of your comments in regards to content, you have given no indication in your comments that you have considered the content in theirs.
That is not a robust discussion, when all the listening is happening on one side. That is a lecture.
And you have been asked to provide a proof to your assertation that offensive language against the trans community was used, and used in order to offend.
Again, you are complaining about such language being used, and again you provide no link, nothing at all.
As far as i am concerned, moderators/authors on tis page have left various posts to discuss various issues. However not a single on of them has opened a post about this submission/hearing farce that is currently ongoing, other then Weka – and i think AD and MickeySavage who did a post in favour of it. Today however, not one Author did.
But maybe you could let us all know what you would like us to discuss on the open mike? Maybe the 'vaccine mandate', the locking up of people who may refuse to take vaccinations, the rubbishing of peoples stuck overseas or here due to no spaces in MIQ or no flights that would fit MIQ? Maybe you would like to discuss childhood poverty and that of the poor parents? Maybe you would like to discuss the medical services that can't be accessed by many people because AKL is in lockdown and will remain in lockdown for the foreseeable future? Maybe you would like to discuss the rental shortage, the extortionist prices for human habitat?
What would be an appropriate thing to discuss on the opne mike in your view?
I should make the effort, but the people dominating the discussion at TS seem to regard any opposing position as bias, claim that they're being silenced, and/or argue the people with a different position are victimising them. And then when they get told TS isn't viewed as a safe space, some of them have a little discussion about how they can't see why that might be, throw in a bit of patronising rephrasing that they think should solve whatever problem there is even though they can't see it, then a couple decide that the complaint was just a weapon used to victimise them.
I just want the bill voted on. Even if it fails this time around (or has some "civil union"-style compromise), sooner or later it'll pass.
At least give us a link to a contribution of yours when you could be "fucked" to talk with integrity on this topic, then I'll give credit to your "any more".
Taking a deep breath, because although we can play this point scoring game all day, it is pointless.
I support the ability of transgender people to have a streamlined process that enables them to get official government documentation that records their declared gender identity. However, I think there are issues with how they are proposing to do so.
In particular, the ability to self-id without the requirement for the presence of support services. I think this is a negative for the transcommunity long-term. Also, there seems to be little proposed in the way of safeguarding the process from those who are not in the transgender community, but who may use it with ill intent.
Can you really not entertain the thought that there may be negative impacts from this proposed method?
Except in countries where similar legislation has been passed, what you consider only "theoretically possible impacts" have occurred in real life, thereby rendering them "probable impacts".
I have not found a submission against the Bill, that state that they do not believe transgender people should not have access to documentation that records their preferred identity (although, I am sure there are some). I have randomly looked at about 40, and couldn't find one that stated that objection. The submissions were about the failure to safeguard both the transgender community and those in the wider community from the misuse of process and/or the failure to provide guidance or reassurance on possible negative impacts on the safeguards put in place for the biological sex class of women.
Make no mistake. I believe the MP's who are promoting this Bill have done an appalling job of predicting, and providing suitable responses to these concerns. Their failure to do so in part is responsible for an inability to publicly discuss this topic with genuine intent to resolve it to the benefit of all.
The differing understandings of the words sex, gender, gender identity, women, men, male, female etc makes the whole topic a minefield of misunderstandings and bad assumptions. People are often not even using the same language. How do we overcome that primary obstacle?
I fully support finding a streamlined method of providing transgender people with official government documentation.
I believe a truly progressive government would provide that by ensuring that any transgender person would have immediate access to counselling/medical/support services that facilitate that option.
By doing that instead of removing that safeguard, we ensure that those in the transgender community (which has a high percentage of mental health issues) at least has one guaranteed point of contact with such services. (Similar to the requirement of pregnant women to have a midwife).
This means that support services need to be invested in and grown. Removing the safeguard process, gives successive governments (think National and ACT) the option of reducing these services without regard.
That's one consideration that may be interesting to discuss with you, if you think you have the solution. The other issue with self-id is the ability of those not in the transgender community to misuse the process with the intent to commit harm. I would genuinely be interested in how you think that can be avoided.
Bluntly, the fact that after years of implementation overseas the only negative impacts people point to seem to be individual cases (that are often highly debatable or talk radio reckons) rather than rates suggests to me the negatives of this largely administrative bill are still more theoretical than probable.
McFlock, unfortunately we are repeating the pattern where we are talking past each other. Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect, and can easily be rebutted with a few internet searches. But you have stated more than once your refusal to follow provided links, so there is no point in doing so.
If you get to a place where you think we can actually converse with a genuine intent to solve this discussion issue, then we can give it another go. ie. would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I believe that solution works both for increasing access to services for the transgender community while solving the issue of misuse of process from those without. Perhaps you can propose a better one.
(Just as an aside, do you believe me and others when I make affirmations regarding support for the transgender community or do you consider them false?)
Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect,
This is the other issue. That's not actually what I wrote, nor certainly intended to imply. There was one discussion at TS (about a trans woman in a US prison ISTR) that did in fact resolve to being some talkback wonk, but I did not say that all cases were restricted to talkback radio. But you jumped on that interpretation as evidence that I'm arguing in bad faith.
Similarly with my refusal to look at some links – particularly when I've already spent half a damned day looking for and reading a judgement that was mentioned (and misinterpreted) in a tweet linked by a commenter.
That's not my bad faith, that's me having limited time and inclination to check the content that the original commenter should have checked before linking.
I apologise for paraphrasing incorrectly, but that is how it came across to me, even on the re-read. There have been numerous incidents related on TS, and again, easily found on the internet, about the harms on both the transgender and wider society by the use of an administration only process for self-id. One incident where you got frustrated is not an excuse for not informing yourself independently. And once again, you are taking issue with how we are talking rather than what we are saying.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Wrestling scores, excerpts from judgements, anecdotes about predators being thrown into womens prison wings, fathers being locked up for "using the wrong pronoun"… cherry picked, out of context, talkback radio, outright misleading (he was done for repeatedly violating suppression orders by giving his kid's specific medical info to the press against the kid's, the kid's mother's, and the court's wishes).
Those aren't the only instances, just the ones off the top of my head.
Then the flipside is how few comments have been made about Tavistock winning their appeal. Quite a few before the appeal came out. This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up – the point of the observation is that people tend to post links to support their position and that's fine if the links are accurate. But in this debate they seem to be largely assessed on surface value, and all too often fail accuracy checks that the commenters should have done.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Just noticed this paragraph. Missed the Q the first time.
Was it this bit
would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
Actually, McFlock, there are submissions from within the transcommunity that object to the self-id provisions in the bill.
It would also be an indication of genuine engagement if you provided more in regards to this discussion than "they said so". I would suggest that the burden of informing your opinion should not rely solely on the testimony of those you have relationships with. The issue is much wider and far-reaching than the personal views of a few people.
This is a societal change, not just a legislative one. It also affects women as a sex class, because it affects sports, awards, services, spaces, quotas, statistics etc that relate to that class.
Others within the transcommunity and those concerned about the impact on the laws and societal mores than affect the biological sex class of women, have brought up those concerns more than once, only to be dismissed as transphobic.
Were you ever supportive of the idea of single-sex spaces? If you understood the need for them before, why has this changed?
Are you supportive of the inclusion of religious women (eg. Muslim), modest women or young women and girls in community facilities? Do you understand that the presence of self-identified male bodied people in those spaces might well result in the exclusion of these biological women from those facilities? How do you, and those who require validation from inclusion in women-only spaces despite male bodies, provide inclusion for those women?
Those examples you have provided are also out of context. The Tavistock ruling, is concerning. You are right. I didn't know it had been overturned, but I do know that I consider that to be a problem rather than a reason to celebrate.
As someone currently on hormone suppression treatment, it is no walk in the park. And I know that my insecurity as a teenager regarding my developing body, and my disconnect with "normal" would have predisposed me to possible solutions that I would have had no ability to provide informed consent for. That may have led to further treatment that rendered me sterile, and unable to function sexually. Do you really think teens have the capability to understand this?
You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology. I see it as what happens when safeguarding and wider considerations are thrown to the wind. We will end up with harm being done to many more than Keira Bell. Don't ask me to celebrate that result.
Again, my opinion is not solely based on the opinions of people I know. It's a combination of that and what the trans community seem to go for. No group agrees completely – there were probably some women who opposed women having the vote, for whatever reason. But the overall direction? That can be seen.
Similarly, "You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology." is actually almost the precise opposite of what I wrote: "This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up".
As for what teens can consent to, many of them are smarter than you give them credit for, and some have very good reasons for not wanting their caregivers invovled in decisions about their reproductive organs. Sure, there should be clear criteria on establishing the capacity for and existence of informed consent. In the UK, that's called the Gillick test. It's a clinical process, not the business of the courts.
Appealing against that doesn't just affect trans patients, it affects every young person needing sexual health services of all kinds but not wanting their parents' involvement in that process.
BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious.
So, no worries about the probable exclusion of some women in women's spaces then. And once again, no answering to the questions regarding your previous support for women only spaces, and why this has changed.
As far as I am aware, the Gillick competence test was created for the prescription of contraception to minors. Fit for purpose, and used to provide medication that on cessation would no longer have an effect. This successful use, has been used to justify the provision of off-label medications, which may have permanent effects, to minors.
I think this is a problem. It is also similar to referring to the harm of gay conversion practices, and conflating that to mean that affirmation only models are the only acceptable approaches when dealing with teenagers and young people.
These are not one-sized fits all solutions. Each situation needs a purpose built solution.
"BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious."
I am actually, because as I mentioned before the language used in these discussions is so fluid and amorphous it is hard to keep track. I perhaps should have used "gender identity ideology" but you can give me the updated appropriate term to refer to. (Given that you have probably an updated definition of the word woman that I don't ascribe to, let's just try to understand what each other is saying rather than get caught up in the semantics.)
jesus christ, did you ever consider the idea that maybe concentrating on one complex topic in a comment and trying really hard to avoid pissing you off might, just might, not be an intentional slight or an indication that I have zero consideration for the other complex topics in this comment thread?
But no, keep seeking out the worst possible inference to make.
That way me removing myself from this thread right now is obviously some example of "no debate" or bad faith rather than exasperation at someone who thinks the lack of "identity" is probably the insulting bit and not the presence of "ideology".
Jesus Christ, McFlock. Instead of being outraged for repeated attempts to engage and requests for you to read comments in their entirety before responding, perhaps you should remove yourself from this thread.
BTW, I don't feel slighted. I feel like someone who continually has to remind you that you are not responding to content. I would only be slighted, if I thought this was done intentionally in an attempt to not engage. I actually think you are unaware that you do it. That's why I ask specific questions, so that the conversation can go back on track.
I remain unlearned in the right phrase to use in regards to gender identity ideology. Do you actually have one to provide? Because statements that regard biological sex as a state of mind is a belief. Hence, ideology.
McFlock I don't think anyone said they don't see how it might be that the Trans community would find this an unsafe space.
I think the trans community are only seeking affirmation. They are entitled to want that. But they may not find that on the Standard. As I said the Standard is a place for robust and rigourous debate.
I can't understand your bit "throw in a bit of patronizing…."
Women are being silenced. What do you think happened when trans activists successfully shut down their meetings.
If you can't be fucked with anymore, no problem. Just scroll down
RBO are you saying it is offensive to refer to women with penises?
We women are being told by some trans activists that women can have penises, men can give birth and lesbians can have penises (so being a lesbian is no longer about being self sex attracted, it is about being gender identity attracted).
Do you understand why some of us don't accept the above statements?
In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions, I will be accused of running away if I don't respond to all your questions. I am happy to wait until Weka returns or a Site Moderator gives an indication that they do or don't agree with my suggestion of a special daily post for you to discuss this topic and anyone else from either side can join you. I trust you can do the same.
"In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions," – but this is a descriptor used by the transgender community itself.
Oh, that's right. Stop asking me questions or giving me information. Be quiet, be quiet.
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
It's fine to ask. I can't see the justification for the amount of work involved for an author/mod (it's a fair amount of work). With the US elections every day there were long, heated debates that tended to take over OM, so dedicated posts took the heat out by not annoying so many people that were sick of it, and it made it easier to moderate.
That's not happening with the BDMRR debates (there are days, sometimes a lot, when there's been no discussion at all).
If you don't like the topic, my suggestion is to scroll on by. I have to do this with various TS topics that go through phases eg vaccines at the moment (although as a mod I actually have to scan them to make sure no-one is being an arse)
I certainly don't wish to cause anyone any more work on this issue. You asked the other night why there wasn't more engagement from the other side of this issue. May I suggest the piling on, from a passionate few, for even asking for a special daily post to discuss it, may answer that question.
For the record I do not, as Anker suggests below, wish to get any "pesky women off Open Mile" I however, can happily take another option of rather having to scroll passed, I can take a self-imposed avoidance of Open Mike until after the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill has been finalized.
I agree that pile ons can be counter productive. In this instance, your request was fine, and your replies after that even handed and point, so thanks for that. I find that if too many people are engaging with stuff I am saying it's useful to pick which I want to reply to and focus on those. Or choose not to engage at all (in this case you asked the mods a question, so there was no obligation to respond to anyone else). This is a really useful skill to develop in robust debate culture. One person's pile on is another person's water off a duck's back. I wouldn't class yesterday as a pile on, the people that replied to you were likewise evenhanded and making coherent points. Everyone was ok in what they did despite the apparently conflict.
I will say that some of the response yesterday was based on how you engaged on the topic the other day. I have two thoughts about this. One is that there's no obligation here to respond to anyone other than moderators. However, it does tend to piss people off if someone says something controversial and then says don't talk to me about that.
I also think that where you have been saying you find some of the language about trans people offensive, you probably need to explain what you mean if you are going to stay in the conversations eg women with penises is a common concept in trans circles online, I don't know what is offensive about it because you haven't explained. I would also say that being specific rather than general improves debate eg link to where someone has said 'women with penises' and then we can see what you actually mean (especially the mods).
Thanks, I acknowledge I have read this. I wont rehash the offensive comments but even you have, in conversations, acknowledged them on occasions so I didn't see the need to go over them again, as I thoroughly explained why I felt them offensive at the time. I bow to your judgment and will take time off from Open Mike so that I don't get caught up again trying to defend against the hurt that words can cause on a maligned community. Regards, RBO
The selfish, entitled arse certainly owes an apology to his family, Maniapoto iwi, search and rescue folk and members of the local community who gave a substantial amount their time and resources to look for him and his kids.
Yes, wonderful news. I'm sure most of us assumed they were dead, and the news headlines had certainly moved on. Whatever the personal circumstances, an outcome to celebrate.
Key would have never openly displayed going to his chosen friendly journalists every presser and feeding them questions.
(to be fair that is probably bollocks sorry. He would have feed questions he needed. They all do, but I am just saying he wouldn't have been so blatant about it)
All good though.
At least now we know what the announcement will be next week.
[Yes, it is bollocks, but you said it anyway. So, you can now provide support for all your assertions in your comment, including that they all (!) feed questions to the friendly (!) journalists [at] every (!) presser. Failing to do so will cost you a month.
Or you can withdraw your trolling bollocks, apologise, and take a week off for wasting my time, unless your apology comes across as genuine, this time, given that you say sorry a lot, but it is obviously rather meaningless coming from you – Incognito]
I just said I was wrong about Key not doing the same thing.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it. But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked, so well done people, in the grand scheme of things, you have rocked in level 3.
[Hmm, I’d already put you in the Black List for a week, but then dinner called. I see that you slightly edited your comment. So, I’ve slightly edited my note for you that I’d written before dinner.
Good to know that you know that Key is/was not doing the same thing. I’m so relieved that you clarified just that one part of your comment.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it.
It is not about what I want; I gave you an opportunity to correct and redeem yourself with a genuine apology. You did not really grasp that opportunity with both hands.
I cannnot forget anything you say here, unless I delete it and then it still shows up in the Trash folder and I have to delete it there too. What is said, is said and stays said.
You cannot have it both ways; mean what you say, say what you mean. If you have nothing to say then don’t say anything.
You are a disingenuous time-wasting commenter, but I’ll give you one more chance – Incognito]
But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked,
God, I hope you're right cos my fringe is a hanging over me eyes and I can't see proper. Far more important than anything else. 😉
Edit: I watched chris T and I'm certain you got it wrong, but can understand why you thought it. JA has a policy of kicking off question time with the two TV political editors Jessica Mutch-McKay and Tova O'Brien on alternate days. It was Tova's turn today.
Although, having said that, I am very concerned we are going to look like this in early November.
Victoria has recorded 1438 new locally acquired Covid-19 infections, another daily record, as health authorities warn the state has not yet reached the peak of the outbreak.
Whatever you think of the PM's answers, to suggest that it's a "rehearsed patsy question" is a solid 9 out of 10 on the conspiracy theory scale (10 involves lizards and aliens).
I think it's possible to debate the issue without bringing in individual trans people and using them as political fodders. Especially in this case because SBE has had a lot of stupid, mean and transphobic arguments directed at them and about them in public.
I'm also concerned that you can't see the problem of asking what you did in response to Sabine's comment. It's none of our business whether any individual NB/trans person has a cervix or not, and it's completely unnecessary for us to know or debate about that person. It's also irrelevant to the issues Sabine pointed to.
Your new e-mail address has now been approved and your comments will now appear freely without being caught by Auto-Moderation unless something else triggers it.
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On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Luis Gómez Romero, Senior Lecturer in Human Rights, Constitutional Law and Legal Theory, University of Wollongong Fifty years ago, Australian feminist Anne Summers denounced “the ideology of sexism” governing over so many women’s lives. Unfortunately, sexism is as lethal today as it ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jose Antonio Lara-Hernandez, Senior Researcher in Architecture, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images The COVID-19 pandemic and the hybrid work patterns it fostered have changed the way we think about office space, and central business districts in general. While fears ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dale Boccabella, Associate Professor of Taxation Law, UNSW Sydney There’s a good reason your local volunteer-run netball club doesn’t pay tax. In Australia, various nonprofit organisations are exempt from paying income tax, including those that do charitable work, such as churches. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Marina Deller, Casual Academic, Creative Writing and English Literature, Flinders University NetflixComedy is opening up spaces for silences to be broken and trauma stories to be told. In 2018, Hannah Gadsby started a revolution with Nanette, asking audiences to rethink ...
The workplace can be a minefield of bad comms and passive aggression. Kinksters can help you navigate it. A friend and colleague recently gave me a compliment I loved. They told me I’d always been good at emotional communication and making people feel comfortable. “But I feel like it’s really ...
Even if some students are now just texting on their laptops. Stewart Sowman-Lund writes in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in full each weekday, sign up here. ...
Councils from Horowhenua, Kāpiti, Wairarapa, the Hutt Valley, Porirua and Wellington City will meet this Friday to work together on a plan for a Greater Wellington region water deal. ...
Renowned musician, advocate, and proud born and raised daughter of Tauranga, Ria Hall, is announcing her candidacy for Mayor of Tauranga and Pāpāmoa Ward for the upcoming election on July 20th. ...
The new Aotearoa histories curriculum is rich with potential. There’s still work to be done, but the education minister’s criticisms about ‘balance’ miss the mark, argues primary school teacher Jessie Moss. In 2015, Ōtorohanga College students presented to parliament a petition signed by more than 10,000 people calling for a ...
For too long our so-called national bird has maintained its stranglehold on the economy of regional New Zealand. Thanks to the fast track legislation, we will have our revenge. Theories abound on what ails New Zealand’s economy. National leader Chris Luxon has posited that we’re negative, wet, whiny, and inward-looking; ...
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For the past 12 years, Georgia-Rose Brown has balanced on the brink of making an Olympic Games – but always landed gracefully on the wrong side. Reaching the Olympics is a dream the gymnast has harboured since she was a six-year-old; a dream that would dwindle every four years, yet ...
Late one afternoon in March 1860 a man in a thin green velveteen jacket and a wide-awake hat arrived on foot at a sheep station named Glenmark, about 65 kilometres north of Christchurch. The man was in his mid-fifties but he looked older. Several people who met him that day ...
If building one of Auckland’s possible waterfront stadiums was funded privately, it would need to hold a sold-out Ed Sherran concert every weekday for 25 years. That’s Rob Hamlin’s finding – he’s a senior marketing lecturer at the University of Otago. “It’s not going to happen; forget about it,” he ...
Comment: The debate over the future relationship between news and social media is bringing us closer to a long-overdue reckoning. Social media isn’t trying to kill journalism, because social media has never really cared about journalism. Social media is resolutely in the attention business. News propels some attention — perhaps ...
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Such delightful birds, and so curious, even when they realise you’re not the tiwaka wahine they were expecting.
https://i.imgur.com/LF6VU25.gif
Tīwaiwaka wahine would be female fantail; Gezza, but ka te pai for making the effort. Less poetically, it was probably after the insects that were stirred up by your presence – which is why they seem to be such a friendly bird to humans.
It’s got quite a few Māori names, Forget now.
“tīwakawaka
1. (noun) fantail – a small, friendly, insect-eating bird of the bush and domestic gardens which has a distinctive tail resembling a spread fan.
Nā, kia mōhio tātou, ko ngā tīwaiwaka e tītakataka nei ka hura rā hoki ngā hukumaro ki runga, ka riro ko te upoko ki raro (TTT 1/10/1929:1086). / Now, we should know that fantails flit about opening their tail feathers up and with their head going down.
(Te Pihinga Study Guide (Ed. 1): 2; Te Māhuri Textbook (Ed. 2): 182;)”
It’s also known as he pīwakawaka in some other parts of te motu.
A wahine toa Māori friend of mine in her 60s up in Northland always shortens the name to tīwaka when she writes about hers up there – which is why I did. (Thanks for the reminder about the macron being needed on the ī, btw.)
PS: No, it's not after insects stirred up by me. I saw it flitting about in the trees across the stream. I'm just standing by my fence, not moving. I called it over. I know how to mimic a tīwakawaka call.
That is impressive; Gezza, my own whistling has a half octave range, and even then; there is a rather wet slurring to the pitch (probably learning brass at school messed up my embouchure habits for whistling, and other flutes). Āe, ngā reo ā-iwi certainly do make the language interesting – if it was intentional and had precedent then you're not wrong,
Kia ora for that, e hoa.
My tīwaka call is a variation on a “kissy” sound. I suck air thru my teeth. A bit hard to describe further beyond that. I can get it to sound quite loud & it carries across the stream.
Another neat trick a lady friend of mine in Huntly uses is to rub two pieces of polystyrene foam together. I tried it, & it works on my fantails here. 👍🏼
My Māori friend up north lives off grid with her partner in te Hokianga. Her tūrangawaewae is East Coast tho. She spent many years as a possum hunter & trapper. Now she’s becoming quite a tohunga rongoā.
Off to get my second shot of vaccine today; more like 9 weeks after the first than the intended 12, but school holidays start at the end of the week and I want to be over any reactions and side effects before I am being scamped 24/7 again. I had the soreness at injection site for a day or two last time, expecting the wiped-outness this time around, so have got a bunch of DVDs from the library (including the reCGed Sagan Cosmos!) and arranged for a friend to come over to watch them (and over me) the next couple of evenings. I did the same for them a couple of weeks back when they had their 6 week jab. Though that was more snuggling together in front of a winter fire.
Vacci-dating is a very 2021 form of social interaction.
I went through Lawrence of Arabia yesterday with 4 panadol over the day.
Better today.
Ad, I was trying to imagine what your pain and torment was like, having likened it to that of Lawrence of Arabia. Was it like suffering riding a camel cross-legged across a stony desert all day with little water? Still, he got to be a wise man, did TE Lawrence, after the experience, with his "Seven Pillars of Wisdom".
Then I realised you had just got through a bad day by watching the film, not by reliving it. I'm glad you're better. My second jab took my energy so that a usual Sunday morning hill walk climbing 400 metres had me stopping five times on the uphill stretch-usually one stop 'for the view'.
Lawrence taught me that the major religions all came out of the desert as a result of encounters with open, starry night skies. I still seek spiritual solace that way- without the panadol, but sometimes with a wee dram……..
5.30am this morning you could see an inky Manukau Heads from South Titirangi Road with a wee wreath of showers, and stars coming through.
Well done.
😀 True, & wise.
COVID is certainly the disease of the unvaccinated according to healthcare workers. And now thanks to “Roger’n’Ruth’s” toxic neo liberal legacy, it is also the disease of the alienated working class poor.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452596/covid-19-team-helps-auckland-families-frightened-of-being-tested
It is pretty clear what needs to be done, albeit obviously too late for this current virus outbreak.
–Pay all citizens a basic income via IRD (recovered via taxation from higher earners)
–Fare free public transport and free Wifi nationwide
–Rent control at all times
–Rent freeze and mortgage holiday during any lockdowns
–State house and apartment mega build, emergency housing and homeless tiny house build in all towns and regions
But what is the Govt.’s latest move? relax conditions for migrant workers just as upward pressure on wages was building in a tighter labour market! Yes migrant workers have been treated appallingly for ever and redress is needed, but really employers and the NZ petit bourgeois just get such favoured treatment from this majority Labour Govt. Bring on 2023 and 2026 I say.
good ideas.
Poor old conservative John Key. He doesn't get the respect now that he believes that he deserves.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/jess-berentson-shaw-do-vaccine-incentives-help-hesitant-people?utm_source=Friends+of+the+Newsroom&utm_campaign=c00f98c647-Daily+Briefing+30.09.2021&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_71de5c4b35-c00f98c647-95522477
Need to get our vax-hesitant gangs to work. Joint for a jab anyone?
Need to get the local kaumatua to pay them a visit, or to ask them to come to the marae to discuss getting jabs?
It's a good scheme – time to break with that strange conservative reflex of Peter Dunne's that has NZ trailing liberalization even of countries as backward as the US.
Better for everyone that gangs are mellow – and vaccinated.
Apropos the notion in National's pandemic response of purpose-built quarantine facilities near Auckland airport to open in early 2022. On CNN today:
China has built a 5,000-room quarantine centre for overseas arrivals.
– A (NZ) $378 million, 5,000-room quarantine facility for incoming travellers opening in Guangzhou.
– Size of 46 football fields, took less than three months to be built from scratch on outskirts of the city.
– Travellers transferred directly from the airport on buses, confined to their rooms for at least two weeks. Three meals a day delivered by robots — minimized direct contact with staff.
– More than 4,000 workers assigned to the construction site. The facility completed earlier this month and a first batch of 184 medical staff moved in last week
– Designed as bubble isolated from rest of city – travellers, AND workers placed under effective lockdown.
– Medical staff work 28 days at the facility, go through week of quarantine themselves, and another two weeks of home quarantine before allowed to go outside.
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/29/china/guangzhou-covid-quarantine-center-mic-intl-hnk/index.html
That can happen in a dictatorship with unlimited resources.
NZ has a massive shortage of construction workers Shortages of building materials many imported from China supply constrictions ,lack of ships operating due to covid.
I have observed the calls to have unlimited resources, instant, dictatorship type action.
Do you think it's funny when such calls come from those who freak out and scream "Dictatorship!" when there are rules about wearing facemarks on public transport and suggestions about wearing them in public?
Don't you think it's funny when people anti a particular government demand unlimited resources, instant action then if anything is done at haste to meet the perceived needs of a situation, wail "What about consultation?!"
whoa… back up!
ROBOT WAITERS!!!
In a pandemic iso unit.
I used to bitch that we didn't have a moonbase like they said we'd have when I was a kid. Now we're getting all the sci fi at once.
New Covid-19 poster child, Ireland, has 40,000 active cases and recorded 40 deaths yesterday. Bloomberg says Ireland is the best place to be right now.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
Yeah saw that yesterday 🙄
It's all about "freedom" and money.
Not to mention Bloomberg's biggest audiences are probably in the plaguelands, so Ireland's rates look pretty good by comparison..
National wants purpose built quarantine centre by early 2022. Have they been asked just how that would be done? Land to be acquired, council consents to be applied for, architects and designers selected to draw up plans, contractors and sub-contractors to be tendered for, building materials to be ordered and trades people to be hired all in the next 5-6 months for completion in early 2022. One of the nuttiest ideas ever.
Government has already been working on this for some time and National knows this. National pretends to come up with new innovative plans whilst painting the Government as a shambolic useless lot and then claiming the credit when it is actually happening AKA I told you so. Cheap lazy political point-scoring and grandstanding and not fit for Government.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/2018814429/covid-19-many-options-on-the-table-for-purpose-built-miq-chris-hipkins
Not so hard really – especially over summer.
Shigeru Ban: Emergency shelters made from paper | TED Talk
there appears to be an almost without exception complete media black out on the Select Committee Hearing on the BMDRR Bill
So hears my update.
Select committee members are showing very overtly they are biased in favour of the bill when submitters are against the bill.
Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this biasis.
One MP , Dr Elizabeth Kerekere, posted a screenshot from the zoom call, with a submitter who opposes the bill accusing them of hate speech. This is likely defamation, but also completely undermines the Select Committee process as it amounts to intimidation. ie if you present an opposing view to the views the select committee clearly holds, you risk being put on FB and acccused of hate speech
With counting almost complete the numbers against the bill outweigh the numbers for the bill by 75 to 25%
There have been a number of Maori wahine presenting against the bill
Pasifica have also presented against the beill
Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle are part of an group of prominant older feminists who are presenting against the Bill and calling for a Royal Commission of Enquiry into sex and gender.
Stuff, Herald, TVNZ Radio NZ Newshub………..your welcome
I have been really shocked by the contempt shown towards some submitters by members of the select committee. Shamefully, for me as a Labour Party member, the worst behaviour is coming from Labour MPs. I have seen eye rolling, scrolling through phones, frankly hostile and confrontational conduct. Deborah Russell has finished a day of intemperate conduct on the select committee and gone home to tweet that she wants to shout "oh do F*ck off" to submitters.
Along with Kerekere's facebook abuse of one group submitting, and Rachel Boyack's barely concealed contempt, sitting pointedly scrolling through her phone during one group's submission, the whole process has been an appalling display of arrogance.
Committee members do not have to share the beliefs of submitters, but should have sufficient EQ to be able to listen respectfully and politely clarify points as required.
The conduct of the committee has been an absolute fiasco. Only Ian McKelvie and Nicola Griggs have shown any ability to conduct themselves appropriately. (It galls me to say this as I pathologically hate the Nats).
What on earth are the party chief whips doing, allowing this to happen? Do these MPs not know what their roles and responsibilities are? Do they not get some training on parliamentary processes and appropriate behaviour? Mallard has already said on Twitter that he has no role in sanctioning misbehaving MPs on select committees.
The whole thing has been a shameful episode for democartic processes. Labour should thank their lucky stars that the opposition are in such disarray.
Well said. Deborah Russel's attitude towards the SUFW spokesperson was disgusting.
"Some MPs are breaking select committee rules by demonstrating this bias"
I think you are assuming they are judges hearing evidence in court.
Rules of the House regarding Select Committes and bias is only one section and doesnt seem to cover the situation you think it does
236 Disqualification for apparent bias
A member who has (whether in the House or outside the House) made an allegation of crime or expressed a concluded view on any conduct or activity of a criminal nature, identifying by name or otherwise a person as being responsible for or associated with that crime, conduct, or activity (referred to as apparent bias), may not participate—
The Births deaths , marriages and relationships Bill is really about being able to change gender.
For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision
Regardless of one's views about the bill, members of the public should be able to submit to the select committee without fear of intimidation from MPs. If you support democratic processes, it is really important that the integrity of the select committee process is preserved. If this becomes the new standard of conduct for discussing differing views we are heading to a very dark place.
Eye rolls are intimidation ? Are you expecting patsy questions as well .
BTW which submission are you in support so we can look it up online and judge for our selves.
No eye rolls arent intimidation, but i imagine it could be intimidating to some presenters.
The intimidation bit is Dr Elizabeth Kerekere posting on FB an article from Newshub with a picture of a zoom call. The article names the women in the picture .Dr Kerekere accuses her of hate speech. Lets call it what it is intimidation
So if I am presenting the next day and am in disagreement with this bill, it would be realistic for me to fear the same thing happening.
The hate speech thing is a smear. Its intimidation and inappropriate for a MP to do this, probably breaks the harmful digital communication lawas and is in fact libleless.
FFS I thought you guys were all about the "safe spaces". Seems like that doesn't apply to women who disagree with you.
And where are the men on the Standard? Heads buried in ideology.
Can you please link, and be specific. I looked the other day and the FB post I saw didn't quite match your description. One of the reasons we ask for links a lot here is so that people can see what is being referred to and in context. It makes discussion much better when we are all working off the same page.
Ghostwalker, try reading John Minto submission which is againgst SOP59
or the Correction Officers who has a trans kid, but is against the bill cause he has seen a number of pregnancies in women's prison due to transgender women being there.
Fowls with older prominant feminists is fantastic (Sandra Coney and Philida Bunkle, a former Green MP). They are against gender id and are calling for a royal commission into sex and gender.
or save Women's Sports oral submission with one of the submitters giving evidence of how transgender females are already in women's only spaces and the Bill will only accerelate and legitimize this. She gives a case of a gym where a transwomen sat and watched as women and girls got changed. So is anyone whose pro this bill alarm bells going off yet. The gym claimed they could do nothing which probably could be challenged, but not once this bill comes in.
Their is a Pacific Island GP who is really pissed off about this bill and the Conversion therapy bill, and she claims the lack of consultation with the PI community shows how hollow the apology for the dawn raids are. The is a huge number of Asian people submitting against this bill..
There are Christians of course, Lesbian groups, Maori wahine, women, mothers. There are people who wrote things like “Just don’t”. and is the Government completely mad.
What did Minto say?
I know you may be making a point about links, but John Minto's submission can be found by clicking the pdf on this page.
(I think Anker may be watching the submissions online, so doesn't have the links)
No, I was curious what Minto said, thanks.
btw, for clarity, the difference between the two comments is that the second one is someone reporting what they saw in the video. The first is saying that a sitting MP made a defamatory statement. The latter needs to be linked. The former, it would be good if people got in the habit of putting up links, but it's not particularly contentious.
(I don't think what Kerekere did is defamatory, because I think defamation needs to be a) a specific allegation or statement, 2) made against a specific person/s. EK's behaviour is appalling though)
Thanks weka. I did make that assumption when posting the link, but thought I'd better check given we are at the sharp end of the day.
I was disillusioned with the integrity of the select committee process when I attended one of the last minute ones held in Auckland for the TPPA. Both David Shearer and David Parker remain in my memory as equivalent to the eye-rolling and disdainful behaviour Anker relates in this instance.
It strikes me as farcical to refer to consultation conducted in such a way as democratic. I criticised such behaviour when it was exhibited by a National government. I am critical of the same behaviour and lack of genuine democracy being demonstrated by members of this government.
thanks, that's very helpful, I didn't know if what the Labour/GP women are doing was out of the norm for SCs or not. Very disappointing that it's normal, as well as the disappointment for this particular group of women.
The behaviour of Russell and Kerekere on the select committee is disgusting. They really confirm my opinion never to vote Labour again.
Labour and the Greens.
What i really would like to know is if the Persons of the Green Party realise that in the end they too – like the persons of the Green Party in Germany have just a few days ago realised – that they will lose their jobs and their Persons Roll and their Persons Quota to Transwomen.
Next a transwomen to stand for Persons Co leadership of the Green Party.
But the real reason they are just being rude and obnoxious is that the fix is in, and this is just a wee spectacle to pretend that the democratic process is still functioning in their own parties.
So to finish up, lets discuss what some opposition party has done wrong today.
Karens always have that approach
This is so true.
Karens voting with their feet.
Bad bad Karen.
Maybe they need some re-education by some Transwomen and Men as to the proper function and place of Persons/Peopels/Others/Karens in society.
"bad, bad Karen".
Love it Sabine!
"persons/peoples/others/karens in society"
BTW #82
Ghostwhowalksnz….
I wish to ask that you do not use such misogynist language towards women posters here. You are free to disagree, but sexist name calling is not appropriate on a left wing blog.
When its avoiding the core issue and complaining about 'process'… its Karens. …or Ill call it what it is privileged older white women.
[yes, you can name privileged, older white women (assuming you are being accurate). Because when you do that the political argument you are trying to make is clear and people can argue for or against it. If you use the term Karens, which is a perjorative, it derails the debate, by people having to stop and deal with the sexism. It’s tedious af. If you use Karens again like this, I will moderate accordingly. This isn’t FB or twitter. There is an expectation that people will engage here in robust debate not lazy slurs and throw away marginalising dismissals. – weka]
Doubling down, a la Collins, huh?
Given you don't know whether those you are referring to are:
privileged, older or white,
your justification is poor, immature and murky.
The only constant that exists in the use of Karen, is the biological sex of those who have it as a name. Since it is a derogatory term, it is both a lazy, and misogynistic label.
So you arent happy with a label 'that isnt you'.. quelle horreur
Just imagine a whole life with much much more than a label that isnt you, but you can never change.
@Ghostwhowalksnz Good God. Not everything is about transgender. And I have never stated that I do not support their wish to have an official record of their gender identity. I always have supported that wish, and still do. Link to where I have stated otherwise (alternatively, stop making shit up)
Now, despite that misdirection, I believe your commitment to your repeated use of Karen can be seen as delighting in the misogynistic term it really is. But I guess as long as social media condones it, you don't have to take responsibility.
It's not even an accurate use of the Karen slur, so doubly sexist I think. Just any old pejorative against the crones, eh.
mod note for you.
Your point is noted
I always know when someone's arguements aren't that good. They start labelling you, Karen, Terfs.
Karen – Seems to me to be a lazy, misogynistic term that seems to be an acceptable form of "bitch". And yes, I know that when this term goes, another will take its place., but…
… try to be brave, and say what you really think without a socially accepted veneer of sophistication.
You might find yourself unrecognisable.
Sabine, this is what is happening in the Scottish Green Party.
We'll see it here
I'm cancelling my membership and monthly donation after decades of loyalty.
I don't have a party I can vote for any more.
https://andywightman.scot/archives/4634?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=why-i-resigned-from-the-scottish-green-party
The Labour Party Conference in England that just ended yesterday was a doozy in regards to this issue.
Mind, i have left the Labour Party in 2016. Will be voting for a third party, neither N / L nor G are at all a fit for me.
Act or if you qualify Te Maori Parti ? RIGHT… got that.
Ghostwhowalks @8.2
Have you looked at your birth certificate ?It requires sex, not gender.The bill refuses to denote the differences between sex and gender.Pretty poor law making
Ghostwalker this is the bit you omitted about bias.
233 Complaints of apparent bias
(1) A complaint of apparent bias on the part of a member of a select committee may be made by any member (whether or not a member of the committee) or by any person appearing or about to appear before the committee whose reputation may be seriously damaged by proceedings of the committee.
(2) A complaint of apparent bias must be made, in writing, to the chairperson.
(3) The chairperson, after considering any information or comment from the member against whom the complaint is made, decides whether the member is disqualified by reason of apparent bias.
(4) Any member of a committee who is dissatisfied with the chairperson’s decision on a complaint of apparent bias may refer the matter to the Speaker for decision. The Speaker’s decision is final.
When I rechecked Rule 233 it says Witness Expenses ?
Complaints of Apparent bias section is my quote:
Rule 237 Complaints of apparent bias
Standing Orders By Chapter Select Committes 23 Oct 2020
You may be referring to an older version, however that version doesn’t dis allow MPs showing bias towards submitters.
Im sure single issue zealots mostly get that response
It is not about people changing gender – it is about people creating a biological fiction – that they have changed SEX – and cementing that as a legal fiction. There is a process to do that now – which has the appropriate safeguards against abuse. The proposal in the SOP enables anyone to make that change by was of a Statutory Declaration with very few safeguards.
Let's have a higher standard for ourselves and our MPs that what you have proposed as acceptable. The select committee process is supposedly a part of a democratic process, not performance art. (Mind you, after attending some of the TPPA submissions this assumption was fairly quickly dispatched for me.)
There is a high degree of arrogance to misuse such processes while calling them democratic.
I believe that arrogance has also interfered with the public discussion on the bill, which leads to you making such statements as:
"For a small minority its the end of the world as we know it for a person to change gender on their birth certificate to match their own gender identity. It seems that old fashioned prejudice is behind those opposed to this provision"
Many of the submissions I have read have not been about this at all.
It has been about the failure of the bill, and the MP's promoting it, to outline how the practical application of this bill in real life may impact on issues not related to birth certificates or transgender people.
Their (I suspect deliberate) conflation of biological sex, gender and gender identity in public statements or meetings has made any discussion fraught with misunderstandings and confusion. I hold those MP's partly responsible for the oppositional nature of public discussions. They are definitely responsible for not doing more to bring clarity into the public sphere.
If you cannot see that there has been a failure to address the possible impact on removing the safeguarding and gatekeeping process and replacing it with a statutory declaration, then you haven't gone past the basics of this issue.
The current process is not there purely as a remnant of prejudice, it was a safeguard put in place to ensure that those who wanted to make such a change had contacted the necessary services and experienced what this may mean.
Regardless, of how impatient or desperate some are to make immediate change, this safeguarding process should not be completely removed. For the well-being of those making the change. Yet, no support services or counselling or medical advice requirement is included in this self-id process. That's arguably going to be a negative as time goes on, as those who required help for other issues, sought gender change as a solution when it was perhaps not appropriate. Given the impact on mental health for many making the transition, this removal takes away the pressure on successive governments to provide necessary services. A better solution would be to demand investment in the provisions of specialist services, and for universal access to streamline the process rather than do away with it altogether. What seems like an ideal proposal may turn out to be a negative.
The other issue is, that the self-id process as proposed, will be available to all members of the public. Not just those within the transgender community.
There has been no clarity from the MP's on how they will stop those people with malicious intent from using this process to remove their personal (possible criminal) histories from public view, easily change names and do so with an intent to commit crimes, harm and fraud. If this process is misused in such a way, this is also not good for the transgender community.
And that's without getting into the impact of these changes on the biological sex class of women.
It is a well-intentioned but poorly thought out piece of legislation, presented badly by the MP's promoting it.
Yes. As overseas its actually the amateur implications of this change which have the striking impact. Many things (such as removing single sex/female) categories will be removed justified by the overarching law change. This will happen even though there is no legal requirement to change and the justification claimed will be that the law has changed requiring this.
The supplementary order to the bill was presented as non controversial, having very little effect on the general population , and "bringing us into line with overseas countries"
I'm concerned that it gives legal recognition to a vastly changed concept of what the words female and woman means.This without wide consensus or consultation with the 50% of the population who this affects.
It seems there's been a total flip, now biological sex is a cultural concept (easily discarded with hormones and medical corrections) and gender is the new destiny, originating in the womb as an innate felt reality, trumping sex.
In the process of ratifying the new orthodoxy , and in the name of inclusivity , natal women are neutered, their breasts not to be mentioned in connection with milk, the femaleness of their periods reduced to desexed menstruating bodies.
We can't say pregnant women it seems , for risk of upsetting those who deny their material sex in favour of a preferred gender Ashley Bloomfield could have said pregnant men and women but perhaps he opted for brevity.
I'm very wary of changes in language to fit a new orthodoxy, pushed in large part by academia in the social sciences .
If you remove the sex class then you no longer have 'discrimination on the basis of sex'.
One day some Persons with prostates will realise that they too lost their sex status, but by then it will be too late.
What i want to know is, if sex is removed, say a Cop were to arrest you, can you be cavity searched by a Transwomen? Must a female cop cavity search a transwomen in a prison? Can transmen be drafted? Can in the future persons with intact reproductive facilities be compelled to breed children for those that have been neutered in the name of trans? Will be a surrogate incubator be a career choice for persons who no longer find employment? Same for the production of human milk, can a person be compelled by Winz to be a wet nurse? If a child is born to a person and a transwomen (who is the ejaculator in this case) will the state be the parent, as persons in prison can not consent to sex? And so on and so forth.
Already in a woman's rape crisis refuge in Scotland, a distraught woman victim asked to have a true female deal with her and administer the rape kit.Instead she was chided and told if she would not accept a transwoman (who knows what stage of transition)she would just have to stomach it and get over her bigotry.
The cruelty of re traumatising a victim of rape.
Persons/People/Others/Karens need to do again what was done in the past.
But then, just like with discrimination of sex, if you make it so bad that Karens don't go to the police or a rape crisis centre or a hosptial to
a. report the crime
b. and allow for evidence of the crime to be collected from their battered bodies
then you have no crime.
Win win.
Labour / Green solved the violence against People/Persons/Others/Karens.
Woot Woot! Victory! Sweet Sweet Victory!!
Gender Identity is the new Immortal Soul. Anybody who supports the separation of Church and State should be concerned by this new ideology which seeks to use the levers of the State to privilege it above other belief systems. There is no more physiological evidence for the possession of a gender identity than there is for the possession of an immortal soul. And we all know what happened last time the populace was required to accept the beliefs of its rulers.
From England.
https://twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442822907399397380/photo/1
UK Labour now openly identifying as unelectable is basically healthy. Under Corbyn they were still making it a secret that they didn't want to be elected.
A wee funny from the german elections.
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/ny-trans-women-elected-german-parliament-tessa-ganserer-nyke-slawik-greens-party-20210928-xta4cbxaxjbenaqn245bvrglha-story.html
Never mind, them persons/people/others will get used to their new status of person/people/other. And frankly we should abolish 'persons' rolls, or 'quota persons' they are as defunct as much as same ‘sex’ spaces.
I had a laugh with the submitter who said 'just because you have two wooden legs doesn't make you a table'.
Paul Litterick's submission on the SOP to the BDMRR Bill is wonderful. https://fundypost.blogspot.com/
Can't find that submission on the link Visubversa
Link here,
OMG!Molly that is chilling
Paul Litter??? Phd. do we know more about him
No, I just followed the link that visubversa supplied and found the submission he had made.
From what I can see he is a blogger, architect and contributor to some online media sources.
The reference he makes to the redacted and poor RIS (Regulatory Impact Statement) was mentioned by a commentator a while ago. I did have a look at the time, but am not familiar with the regular form or nature of it, so couldn't comment on its comparison to others.
If you have a penis you most certainly are not a table.
lol Gabby. Indeed.
Debbie Hayton's submission to the UK government on their similar legislation can be found here. (pdf).
Articles she has written as a self-described transgender campaigner can be found here.
Thanks for the link. The way she writes about her acceptance of herself after many years as a trans woman chimes in with what I've taken from discussions with a person in my wider family circle who transitioned more than 20 years ago, and these discussions (and my experiences as a biological woman) are where my thoughts about this legislation fit.
This is well worth a read.
Here is further proof that mandatory vaccinations and "tackling misinformation" works:
Port workers' 95% vaccination rate attributed to tackling misinformation
A turnaround in the number of port workers vaccinated is being attributed to success in tackling misinformation and making it mandatory for those on the border's frontline. Just last month Covid-19 Response Minister Chris Hipkins said misinformation was keeping 44 percent of port workers from getting even a single dose.
So why is the government not considering making it mandatory for other risk based industries such as construction workers/road workers as well as work places where interaction with the public is high?
Or maybe it just has to do with the fact that we now have vaccines in the country and thus people that were stuck in Group 3 and 4 can actually get vaccinations?
Was it really tackling misinformation, or was it just maybe something else had more to do with it?
from the link:
Sorry, I forgot to put quote marks around the main paragraph:
That was the conclusion based on their responses – hesitancy due to misinformation. But they soon changed their minds when it became mandatory.
No-one is suggesting it should be across the board, but obviously making it mandatory for all high risk areas is a no-brainer.
Is this just me feeling a rant is coming on. Michael Venus is "thinking about" sueing the Gov because he cannot secure an MIQ spot. Firstly he is a professional sportsman and should be expecting problems flying in and out of the country and just grow a spine and get on with it. he is now going on to San Diego presumably to another fixture.
Secondly his wife and two young children are joining him there plus his mother. His mother is joining them and has quit her job as an emergency department nurse, a sorely needed job which will be missed and training will take up valuable time to replace her. Reason being for her to be going is that she will be a stay at home mum as Venus's wife will be working over there.
Now bugger me, Venus surely has sufficient PA earnings that he could afford a nanny for his kids and secondly why should it be an expectation that his mother will have to take over his wife's role. His mum may be more than happy to do this but the sense of entitlement Venus has, for thinking of sueing the Government and the cheek of even asking his mum to look after his kids.
Sorry but I am over entitled prats and their whinging and whining. Grow a spine Venus and get a life.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/tennis-kiwi-olympic-bronze-medallist-michael-venus-considering-legal-action-against-government-over-miq-system/3PPXVGBYVLSJFJIDG2D32L3CKQ/
Venus and sufficient earnings? By my reckoning from winnings he has averaged NZ$320,000 a year since 2009.
https://www.atptour.com/en/players/michael-venus/v576/overview
Dear Moderators,
Ages ago I think we had a daily special Post for Posting about the US Elections so that Open Mike was not clogged with loads of talking on the one topic.
With the obvious passion associated with the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill would it be possible to have a daily thread that people could CHOOSE to go to on that topic, and then it might help avoid the overheated reactions we are seeing (from both sides) on occasions on this topic.
My apologies for suggesting it, and ignore the suggestion, if something like that isn't as easy as it sounds.
Apart from your dislike of persons discussing the issue, could you explain how you compare a current political action i.e. the discussion of bill that has wide ramifications in this country to the US election?
And this is the open Mike? So why not discuss it here, other then that some persons may not disagree with what some other persons have to say?
I have no dislike of any person having discussions on this issue although sometimes take offence at some of the language used. The comparison with the US election, as I stated, was based on the level of clogging up Open Mike. I am not trying to stifle your conversation but suggesting people from either side could CHOOSE to go to a dedicated post to voice their opinions on this topic.
How can an issue that will affect 50% of this countries population be 'clogging' up the open mike?
As you say being such a critical situation affecting 50% of this countries population, I would have thought you would welcome the suggestion to have a daily post dedicated to the discussion until the Bill is finalised.
i agree with you,
but sadly Weka is not around, and no one of the others started a post. So we are stuck on the Open mike until Weka comes. Patience.
I'd like discussion to stay on Open Mike. The media have blacked out this issue of the BMDRR. So I kind of see it as my civic duty to get some information out to others.
Thank you for your feedback and I hope a satisfactory outcome appears for everyone.
I'm sure it has been done before. That is… a rolling post for a specific subject which is ongoing and controversial, thus freeing up OP for more general subject matter.
Thanks Anne, that's all I was suggesting.
Ok Red blooded One.
I am not sure what the language is you are referring to. I think you called me on transgender ideology. I hopefully clarrified to you that it is the ideology and how it is being imposed that I have a big problem with.
As I said to Ad yesterday I have been commenting on TS since 2013. I have never been warned, banned or had a threat of a ban in all that time.
I think I am pretty reasonable with my comments. I have had a lot of stuff chucked at me, but only when I am commenting on this issue. I have been accused of coming across as unhinged, I have been told I am stupid, I have been told I side with the idiot right wingers and I had it implied I made some sort of lewd suggestion about someone taking their daughter into a change room.
I post on this site, because there is a media black out about this bill. What I reported today was pretty factual about the. a Select Committee. Many regular commentators were keen to engage about this topic.
I suppose I am hoping at some stage some of the people on this site who aren't supportive of those of us who are gender critical may actually be able to acknowledge that there is a problem for women and girls with gender ideology and the attempt to legislate for self identification. Already male bodied people are turning up in women's spaces, eg. a transwoman in a change room watching women and teen girls change. I will never stop trying to bring this to peoples attention, because it is not o.k.
A few reports escaped this "media black out", despite everything that's going on.
Fortunately 'the media' is (also) more diverse than it was a few decades ago.
Had a look at your links. The first three are really a whole lot of reckons, and no discussion at all.
The next three are similar to press releases. There is also a conflation of the terms sex and gender throughout. Not helpful.
Attempted public discussions around the issue, well – I'm sure you can find some cancelled ones.
Just as I’m sure you can find some that weren’t cancelled.
Molly, one of Anker's assertions @12.1.1.3 was that "there is a media black out about this bill."
As "this bill" has been referred to in a few media reports (not a lot, I would agree), it seems inflammatory to mischaracterise the paucity of reporting as a "media black out", and I believe it’s unlikely to foster further dialogue.
Just my opinion – we can agree to disagree – peace.
… and love…
Gotta love 'em
Yes please!
Despite engaging with you non-passionately on this topic a few times, RBO, why are your contributions only different versions of?
Be quiet, be quiet, be quiet, be quiet…
Molly, the only times I have engaged on this topic is when I have taken offence at the language being used directed at the Trans Community. With your "be quiet, be quiet" narrative you are wrong. As I have stated above, today I have asked for a daily post dedicated to the discussions, that is hardly trying to shut you up, but when one does take offence to a "women with penises" remark they are jumped on for highlighting its offence. I personally would rather this matter be handled by the moderators, as I had addressed them, and am happy to leave it up to them, without me making further space on Open Mike.
Two fairly recent conversations with you where you did not discuss, just dismissed:
Open Mike 28/09/2021 which actually included the instruction:
"None of you need bother answering, the question is rhetorical. " and which you walked away from.
Open Mike 26/08/2021 which was more productive, but showed a tendency for you to say what you wanted, which was responded to, but you walked away again instead of addressing what other commentators had said. This pattern of expecting and receiving a response, but not returning the courtesy has been noticeable on this issue.
This pattern is not a discussion, it is a lecture.
I have not lectured any of you, you however!. I have highlighted when offensive remarks (imho) have been made, and no I am not going back to each thread to highlight them again, many of you have been party to the threads so will be well aware of the words used so I will not re-hash them. I will be very happy to have a discussion with Weka, who I addressed the last comment you mentioned to. This comment was addressed to the Moderators and as such we can, as Anker has done, and Sabine has alluded to, wait with patience to see what Weka or other moderators have to say, and/or voice your opinion to them why continuing the topic on Open Mike is a good idea. .
No, RBO. I think you are mistaken in thinking you have made a genuine attempt at discussion and sharing viewpoints. Despite people taking time to engage and respond to each of your comments in regards to content, you have given no indication in your comments that you have considered the content in theirs.
That is not a robust discussion, when all the listening is happening on one side. That is a lecture.
And you have been asked to provide a proof to your assertation that offensive language against the trans community was used, and used in order to offend.
Again, you are complaining about such language being used, and again you provide no link, nothing at all.
As far as i am concerned, moderators/authors on tis page have left various posts to discuss various issues. However not a single on of them has opened a post about this submission/hearing farce that is currently ongoing, other then Weka – and i think AD and MickeySavage who did a post in favour of it. Today however, not one Author did.
But maybe you could let us all know what you would like us to discuss on the open mike? Maybe the 'vaccine mandate', the locking up of people who may refuse to take vaccinations, the rubbishing of peoples stuck overseas or here due to no spaces in MIQ or no flights that would fit MIQ? Maybe you would like to discuss childhood poverty and that of the poor parents? Maybe you would like to discuss the medical services that can't be accessed by many people because AKL is in lockdown and will remain in lockdown for the foreseeable future? Maybe you would like to discuss the rental shortage, the extortionist prices for human habitat?
What would be an appropriate thing to discuss on the opne mike in your view?
I just can't be fucked with it any more.
I should make the effort, but the people dominating the discussion at TS seem to regard any opposing position as bias, claim that they're being silenced, and/or argue the people with a different position are victimising them. And then when they get told TS isn't viewed as a safe space, some of them have a little discussion about how they can't see why that might be, throw in a bit of patronising rephrasing that they think should solve whatever problem there is even though they can't see it, then a couple decide that the complaint was just a weapon used to victimise them.
I just want the bill voted on. Even if it fails this time around (or has some "civil union"-style compromise), sooner or later it'll pass.
I don't think you realise how ironic your comment is.
Funny. I think the same about your comments.
At least give us a link to a contribution of yours when you could be "fucked" to talk with integrity on this topic, then I'll give credit to your "any more".
Yep, that's the stuff.
That's OK. I couldn't find one either.
Taking a deep breath, because although we can play this point scoring game all day, it is pointless.
I support the ability of transgender people to have a streamlined process that enables them to get official government documentation that records their declared gender identity. However, I think there are issues with how they are proposing to do so.
In particular, the ability to self-id without the requirement for the presence of support services. I think this is a negative for the transcommunity long-term. Also, there seems to be little proposed in the way of safeguarding the process from those who are not in the transgender community, but who may use it with ill intent.
Can you really not entertain the thought that there may be negative impacts from this proposed method?
Every policy might have negative impacts, just as there might be positive impacts.
But there's a difference between realistic or even widespread impacts, and the theoretically possible impacts.
Except in countries where similar legislation has been passed, what you consider only "theoretically possible impacts" have occurred in real life, thereby rendering them "probable impacts".
I have not found a submission against the Bill, that state that they do not believe transgender people should not have access to documentation that records their preferred identity (although, I am sure there are some). I have randomly looked at about 40, and couldn't find one that stated that objection. The submissions were about the failure to safeguard both the transgender community and those in the wider community from the misuse of process and/or the failure to provide guidance or reassurance on possible negative impacts on the safeguards put in place for the biological sex class of women.
Make no mistake. I believe the MP's who are promoting this Bill have done an appalling job of predicting, and providing suitable responses to these concerns. Their failure to do so in part is responsible for an inability to publicly discuss this topic with genuine intent to resolve it to the benefit of all.
The differing understandings of the words sex, gender, gender identity, women, men, male, female etc makes the whole topic a minefield of misunderstandings and bad assumptions. People are often not even using the same language. How do we overcome that primary obstacle?
I fully support finding a streamlined method of providing transgender people with official government documentation.
I believe a truly progressive government would provide that by ensuring that any transgender person would have immediate access to counselling/medical/support services that facilitate that option.
By doing that instead of removing that safeguard, we ensure that those in the transgender community (which has a high percentage of mental health issues) at least has one guaranteed point of contact with such services. (Similar to the requirement of pregnant women to have a midwife).
This means that support services need to be invested in and grown. Removing the safeguard process, gives successive governments (think National and ACT) the option of reducing these services without regard.
That's one consideration that may be interesting to discuss with you, if you think you have the solution. The other issue with self-id is the ability of those not in the transgender community to misuse the process with the intent to commit harm. I would genuinely be interested in how you think that can be avoided.
Bluntly, the fact that after years of implementation overseas the only negative impacts people point to seem to be individual cases (that are often highly debatable or talk radio reckons) rather than rates suggests to me the negatives of this largely administrative bill are still more theoretical than probable.
McFlock, unfortunately we are repeating the pattern where we are talking past each other. Your assertions that the impacts are neglible and non-existent beyond talk back radio are incorrect, and can easily be rebutted with a few internet searches. But you have stated more than once your refusal to follow provided links, so there is no point in doing so.
If you get to a place where you think we can actually converse with a genuine intent to solve this discussion issue, then we can give it another go. ie. would you support a streamlined support service for transgender people, rather than a complete removal of safeguarding if it delivered the same outcome – universal free access to official documentation that records gender identity?
I believe that solution works both for increasing access to services for the transgender community while solving the issue of misuse of process from those without. Perhaps you can propose a better one.
(Just as an aside, do you believe me and others when I make affirmations regarding support for the transgender community or do you consider them false?)
This is the other issue. That's not actually what I wrote, nor certainly intended to imply. There was one discussion at TS (about a trans woman in a US prison ISTR) that did in fact resolve to being some talkback wonk, but I did not say that all cases were restricted to talkback radio. But you jumped on that interpretation as evidence that I'm arguing in bad faith.
Similarly with my refusal to look at some links – particularly when I've already spent half a damned day looking for and reading a judgement that was mentioned (and misinterpreted) in a tweet linked by a commenter.
That's not my bad faith, that's me having limited time and inclination to check the content that the original commenter should have checked before linking.
I apologise for paraphrasing incorrectly, but that is how it came across to me, even on the re-read. There have been numerous incidents related on TS, and again, easily found on the internet, about the harms on both the transgender and wider society by the use of an administration only process for self-id. One incident where you got frustrated is not an excuse for not informing yourself independently. And once again, you are taking issue with how we are talking rather than what we are saying.
I deliberately did not mention the impact on women and girls as a biological sex class, but asked you one specific question about how a progressive government could make life better for the transgender community while meeting the need for official recognition and you have ignored it.
Would that it were one incident.
Wrestling scores, excerpts from judgements, anecdotes about predators being thrown into womens prison wings, fathers being locked up for "using the wrong pronoun"… cherry picked, out of context, talkback radio, outright misleading (he was done for repeatedly violating suppression orders by giving his kid's specific medical info to the press against the kid's, the kid's mother's, and the court's wishes).
Those aren't the only instances, just the ones off the top of my head.
Then the flipside is how few comments have been made about Tavistock winning their appeal. Quite a few before the appeal came out. This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up – the point of the observation is that people tend to post links to support their position and that's fine if the links are accurate. But in this debate they seem to be largely assessed on surface value, and all too often fail accuracy checks that the commenters should have done.
Just noticed this paragraph. Missed the Q the first time.
Was it this bit
I'd support it if my trans friends (both M2F & F2M) did and the trans community seemed to.
As it is, they want the bmdrr-whatever bill for "support".
Actually, McFlock, there are submissions from within the transcommunity that object to the self-id provisions in the bill.
It would also be an indication of genuine engagement if you provided more in regards to this discussion than "they said so". I would suggest that the burden of informing your opinion should not rely solely on the testimony of those you have relationships with. The issue is much wider and far-reaching than the personal views of a few people.
This is a societal change, not just a legislative one. It also affects women as a sex class, because it affects sports, awards, services, spaces, quotas, statistics etc that relate to that class.
Others within the transcommunity and those concerned about the impact on the laws and societal mores than affect the biological sex class of women, have brought up those concerns more than once, only to be dismissed as transphobic.
Were you ever supportive of the idea of single-sex spaces? If you understood the need for them before, why has this changed?
Are you supportive of the inclusion of religious women (eg. Muslim), modest women or young women and girls in community facilities? Do you understand that the presence of self-identified male bodied people in those spaces might well result in the exclusion of these biological women from those facilities? How do you, and those who require validation from inclusion in women-only spaces despite male bodies, provide inclusion for those women?
Those examples you have provided are also out of context. The Tavistock ruling, is concerning. You are right. I didn't know it had been overturned, but I do know that I consider that to be a problem rather than a reason to celebrate.
As someone currently on hormone suppression treatment, it is no walk in the park. And I know that my insecurity as a teenager regarding my developing body, and my disconnect with "normal" would have predisposed me to possible solutions that I would have had no ability to provide informed consent for. That may have led to further treatment that rendered me sterile, and unable to function sexually. Do you really think teens have the capability to understand this?
You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology. I see it as what happens when safeguarding and wider considerations are thrown to the wind. We will end up with harm being done to many more than Keira Bell. Don't ask me to celebrate that result.
Again, my opinion is not solely based on the opinions of people I know. It's a combination of that and what the trans community seem to go for. No group agrees completely – there were probably some women who opposed women having the vote, for whatever reason. But the overall direction? That can be seen.
Similarly, "You see this judgment as validation for gender ideology." is actually almost the precise opposite of what I wrote: "This isn't me gloating about the judgement – it'll go further up".
As for what teens can consent to, many of them are smarter than you give them credit for, and some have very good reasons for not wanting their caregivers invovled in decisions about their reproductive organs. Sure, there should be clear criteria on establishing the capacity for and existence of informed consent. In the UK, that's called the Gillick test. It's a clinical process, not the business of the courts.
Appealing against that doesn't just affect trans patients, it affects every young person needing sexual health services of all kinds but not wanting their parents' involvement in that process.
BTW, "gender ideology". That's one of the phrases that has a really foul undertone to which you are probably oblivious.
So, no worries about the probable exclusion of some women in women's spaces then. And once again, no answering to the questions regarding your previous support for women only spaces, and why this has changed.
As far as I am aware, the Gillick competence test was created for the prescription of contraception to minors. Fit for purpose, and used to provide medication that on cessation would no longer have an effect. This successful use, has been used to justify the provision of off-label medications, which may have permanent effects, to minors.
I think this is a problem. It is also similar to referring to the harm of gay conversion practices, and conflating that to mean that affirmation only models are the only acceptable approaches when dealing with teenagers and young people.
These are not one-sized fits all solutions. Each situation needs a purpose built solution.
I am actually, because as I mentioned before the language used in these discussions is so fluid and amorphous it is hard to keep track. I perhaps should have used "gender identity ideology" but you can give me the updated appropriate term to refer to. (Given that you have probably an updated definition of the word woman that I don't ascribe to, let's just try to understand what each other is saying rather than get caught up in the semantics.)
jesus christ, did you ever consider the idea that maybe concentrating on one complex topic in a comment and trying really hard to avoid pissing you off might, just might, not be an intentional slight or an indication that I have zero consideration for the other complex topics in this comment thread?
But no, keep seeking out the worst possible inference to make.
That way me removing myself from this thread right now is obviously some example of "no debate" or bad faith rather than exasperation at someone who thinks the lack of "identity" is probably the insulting bit and not the presence of "ideology".
Jesus Christ, McFlock. Instead of being outraged for repeated attempts to engage and requests for you to read comments in their entirety before responding, perhaps you should remove yourself from this thread.
BTW, I don't feel slighted. I feel like someone who continually has to remind you that you are not responding to content. I would only be slighted, if I thought this was done intentionally in an attempt to not engage. I actually think you are unaware that you do it. That's why I ask specific questions, so that the conversation can go back on track.
I remain unlearned in the right phrase to use in regards to gender identity ideology. Do you actually have one to provide? Because statements that regard biological sex as a state of mind is a belief. Hence, ideology.
One simple question:
do you think
is part of
Because I sure don't. It looks to me like an accusation based on yet another worst possible interpretation.
100 percent
McFlock I don't think anyone said they don't see how it might be that the Trans community would find this an unsafe space.
I think the trans community are only seeking affirmation. They are entitled to want that. But they may not find that on the Standard. As I said the Standard is a place for robust and rigourous debate.
I can't understand your bit "throw in a bit of patronizing…."
Women are being silenced. What do you think happened when trans activists successfully shut down their meetings.
If you can't be fucked with anymore, no problem. Just scroll down
RBO are you saying it is offensive to refer to women with penises?
We women are being told by some trans activists that women can have penises, men can give birth and lesbians can have penises (so being a lesbian is no longer about being self sex attracted, it is about being gender identity attracted).
Do you understand why some of us don't accept the above statements?
In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions, I will be accused of running away if I don't respond to all your questions. I am happy to wait until Weka returns or a Site Moderator gives an indication that they do or don't agree with my suggestion of a special daily post for you to discuss this topic and anyone else from either side can join you. I trust you can do the same.
"In the context of referring to Trans Women, yes I do, however please stop asking me questions," – but this is a descriptor used by the transgender community itself.
Oh, that's right. Stop asking me questions or giving me information. Be quiet, be quiet.
It's fine to ask. I can't see the justification for the amount of work involved for an author/mod (it's a fair amount of work). With the US elections every day there were long, heated debates that tended to take over OM, so dedicated posts took the heat out by not annoying so many people that were sick of it, and it made it easier to moderate.
That's not happening with the BDMRR debates (there are days, sometimes a lot, when there's been no discussion at all).
If you don't like the topic, my suggestion is to scroll on by. I have to do this with various TS topics that go through phases eg vaccines at the moment (although as a mod I actually have to scan them to make sure no-one is being an arse)
Please see Internal Post in Back End.
just replied.
Agree Weka. I think people are exaggerating how much of the time this topic comes up on Open Mike.
As well as having push back about it, I have a number of women (I assume) commenters thanking me for bringing it up.
I don't like the idea of having a special post for this topic. It smacks a little of lets get these pesky women off Open Mike
Thanks Weka for you considered reply,
I certainly don't wish to cause anyone any more work on this issue. You asked the other night why there wasn't more engagement from the other side of this issue. May I suggest the piling on, from a passionate few, for even asking for a special daily post to discuss it, may answer that question.
For the record I do not, as Anker suggests below, wish to get any "pesky women off Open Mile" I however, can happily take another option of rather having to scroll passed, I can take a self-imposed avoidance of Open Mike until after the Births, Deaths, Marriages, and Relationships Registration Bill has been finalized.
See you after that. Cheers
I agree that pile ons can be counter productive. In this instance, your request was fine, and your replies after that even handed and point, so thanks for that. I find that if too many people are engaging with stuff I am saying it's useful to pick which I want to reply to and focus on those. Or choose not to engage at all (in this case you asked the mods a question, so there was no obligation to respond to anyone else). This is a really useful skill to develop in robust debate culture. One person's pile on is another person's water off a duck's back. I wouldn't class yesterday as a pile on, the people that replied to you were likewise evenhanded and making coherent points. Everyone was ok in what they did despite the apparently conflict.
I will say that some of the response yesterday was based on how you engaged on the topic the other day. I have two thoughts about this. One is that there's no obligation here to respond to anyone other than moderators. However, it does tend to piss people off if someone says something controversial and then says don't talk to me about that.
I also think that where you have been saying you find some of the language about trans people offensive, you probably need to explain what you mean if you are going to stay in the conversations eg women with penises is a common concept in trans circles online, I don't know what is offensive about it because you haven't explained. I would also say that being specific rather than general improves debate eg link to where someone has said 'women with penises' and then we can see what you actually mean (especially the mods).
I would appreciate you acknowledging you have read this, and am fine if you don't want to engage further.
Thanks, I acknowledge I have read this. I wont rehash the offensive comments but even you have, in conversations, acknowledged them on occasions so I didn't see the need to go over them again, as I thoroughly explained why I felt them offensive at the time. I bow to your judgment and will take time off from Open Mike so that I don't get caught up again trying to defend against the hurt that words can cause on a maligned community. Regards, RBO
And the Dad with his three kids that no one could find came back home.
Yei! Finally some good news.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/missing-south-waikato-father-tom-phillips-three-kids-found-safe-and-well-after-three-weeks/4E2FWPWBQCQDHJH2XF235USN4I/
Sometimes, life surprises in a good way.
The selfish, entitled arse certainly owes an apology to his family, Maniapoto iwi, search and rescue folk and members of the local community who gave a substantial amount their time and resources to look for him and his kids.
Selfish arse with living children, which is often not the case for selfish arses.
For that I am thankful.
Yes, wonderful news. I'm sure most of us assumed they were dead, and the news headlines had certainly moved on. Whatever the personal circumstances, an outcome to celebrate.
You wouldn't grudge a "massive search" for someone in the bush because of a broken leg.
Why, would you grudge a search because of someone, as seems likely, with a broken brain.
Both equally need help. As someone who has been involved in searches, it is what we do as a community.
Just pleased, as I have been on other occasions, after searches for people with mental problems, that they are safe.
Yes that is good news
Ardern just got Tova to ask their rehearsed patsy question, so Ardern can say Auckland's border will still be shut at level 2.
Congrats Auckland.
That will be you going to level 2, but with closed borders, so you can't spread yourself round the country in the school holiday.
Edit: Subtlety isn’t Ardern’s thing is it?
I trust you’d conflate clarity and subtlety.
Just saying they could have made it a bit less obvious.
I see, obfuscate like JC and JK. Yeah, nah.
You are right in one respect.
Key would have never openly displayed going to his chosen friendly journalists every presser and feeding them questions.
(to be fair that is probably bollocks sorry. He would have feed questions he needed. They all do, but I am just saying he wouldn't have been so blatant about it)
All good though.
At least now we know what the announcement will be next week.
[Yes, it is bollocks, but you said it anyway. So, you can now provide support for all your assertions in your comment, including that they all (!) feed questions to the friendly (!) journalists [at] every (!) presser. Failing to do so will cost you a month.
Or you can withdraw your trolling bollocks, apologise, and take a week off for wasting my time, unless your apology comes across as genuine, this time, given that you say sorry a lot, but it is obviously rather meaningless coming from you – Incognito]
See my Moderation note @ 4:25 pm.
I just said I was wrong about Key not doing the same thing.
If you want a grovelling apology I apologise. It was a dim thing to say on here.
Forget I mentioned it. But Auckland is obviously going level 2 next week with the borders still blocked, so well done people, in the grand scheme of things, you have rocked in level 3.
[Hmm, I’d already put you in the Black List for a week, but then dinner called. I see that you slightly edited your comment. So, I’ve slightly edited my note for you that I’d written before dinner.
Good to know that you know that Key is/was not doing the same thing. I’m so relieved that you clarified just that one part of your comment.
It is not about what I want; I gave you an opportunity to correct and redeem yourself with a genuine apology. You did not really grasp that opportunity with both hands.
I cannnot forget anything you say here, unless I delete it and then it still shows up in the Trash folder and I have to delete it there too. What is said, is said and stays said.
You cannot have it both ways; mean what you say, say what you mean. If you have nothing to say then don’t say anything.
You are a disingenuous time-wasting commenter, but I’ll give you one more chance – Incognito]
God, I hope you're right cos my fringe is a hanging over me eyes and I can't see proper. Far more important than anything else. 😉
Edit: I watched chris T and I'm certain you got it wrong, but can understand why you thought it. JA has a policy of kicking off question time with the two TV political editors Jessica Mutch-McKay and Tova O'Brien on alternate days. It was Tova's turn today.
FYI
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/whos-the-prime-minister-going-to-give-the-first-question-to/CZI37LJ4FLWV4H5C5DKNMNE5OQ/I
See my Moderation note @ 6:09 pm.
For what it is worth. Thank you.
It’s worth between a week and a month as long as you sharpen up your comments here.
Incognito.
Did you actually watch the 1pm press conference?
Nope, never watch them pressers; too depressing.
Fine with me. I don't need to galavant around the country to prove I'm able.
As long as work starts next week, and school and sport resumes in Term 4, I'll be happy.
Although, having said that, I am very concerned we are going to look like this in early November.
Christmas might be off after all.
Whatever you think of the PM's answers, to suggest that it's a "rehearsed patsy question" is a solid 9 out of 10 on the conspiracy theory scale (10 involves lizards and aliens).
😂 Quote of the day.
The scale only goes up to 5.
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/six-common-conspiracy-theories-and-why-it-s-pointless-to-argue-with-them-1.4531139
From which tier did you scrub Russia Gate?
Apparently now the FBI have indicted some Clinton lawyers for not telling them they were 'on the clock' at the time they were giving evidence.
And for all the cervix havers that lost their cervix to cancer, it appears that with some hormone therapy and some surgery on can grow a cervix.
https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1443125834626260993
Persons who suffered from cervical cancer the world over will rejoice in this knowledge.
Is Scout Barbour-Evans a woman?
What is a woman?
What are women?
and also,
Who is Scout Barbour-Evans?
(And if Muttonbird doesn’t know, why would you?)
I think it's possible to debate the issue without bringing in individual trans people and using them as political fodders. Especially in this case because SBE has had a lot of stupid, mean and transphobic arguments directed at them and about them in public.
I'm also concerned that you can't see the problem of asking what you did in response to Sabine's comment. It's none of our business whether any individual NB/trans person has a cervix or not, and it's completely unnecessary for us to know or debate about that person. It's also irrelevant to the issues Sabine pointed to.
Love it Sabine!
test
Your new e-mail address has now been approved and your comments will now appear freely without being caught by Auto-Moderation unless something else triggers it.
cheers.