A modest proposal

25 comments on “A modest proposal ”

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1. Roy 1

   8 August 2012 at 9:07 am

   Well said…but you forgot that puppies are cute, and people dying of lung cancer in late middle-age are not. Also, there are a number of people in the New Zealand population who foam at the mouth at anything to do with animal welfare, but don’t give a damn about, or actively loathe, their fellow human beings.
2. Tombstone 2

   8 August 2012 at 9:22 am

   I’m a smoker and personally I wish they would bloody well ban the things once and for all because that’ll be that – if I can’t buy ’em over the counter I can’t smoke ’em. All this bullshit about people resorting to buying them through a black market is just alarmist nonsense. As though my mum is gonna pop down to the local gang pad to buy her fags – yeah right!
   • bbfloyd 2.1

     8 August 2012 at 12:15 pm

     She won’t have to… there will be large numbers of home growers pop up.. there are already people growing their own tobacco…. some of them will just step up production…. it’s safer than cannabis, being illegal to sell it without paying tax on it, not to grow it…..so banning it will make it commercially viable…

     No doubt, someone you know will be able to introduce you to “freinds” who can “help”…
3. Rosie 3

   8 August 2012 at 9:28 am

   Roy, poisonous puppies are a good metaphor for the story. Also it is quite possible to be a supporter of animal welfare AND human rights at the same time. The human brain has a capacity to feel compassion and empathy for all species including it’s own.

   If you have met an animal rights activist and found them to be in any way contemptous of their fellow humans, ask yourself why. Maybe witnessing the cruelty that humans impose upon defenceless animals on a daily basis makes them feel distrusting of and disillusioned by humanity.

   And on the subject of people “who don’t give a damn about, or actively loathe, their fellow human beings”. You don’t have to an animal welfare supporter to display these atttributes. Just look at folks like Shonkey and his cronies. They’ve got no excuse for serving up the hate but still they do and many NZers suffer because of it.
   • deuto 3.1

     8 August 2012 at 11:06 am

     +1. Well said, Rosie. With you 100% based on many years involved with an animal welfare organisation.
     • Rosie 3.1.1

       8 August 2012 at 11:36 am

       Indeed deuto:-) All those I’ve met, and theres been many, who work with animals in a welfare role, including providing sanctury and rehabilitation have been well adjusted easy going people with a sense of humour. I think this approach must be necessary for work that could easily be depressing. Usually they have better skills of observation than most and therefore are often more empathetic to their fellow human animals too.
       • Roy 3.1.1.1

         9 August 2012 at 10:00 am

         Ha, you haven’t met the head of the Wairarapa SPCA.
4. Tracey 4

   8 August 2012 at 10:10 am

   Interesting that the CEO of the company doesn’t smoke. However the media didn’t have the testicles to ask him why not…
   • Lanthanide 4.1

     8 August 2012 at 11:49 am

     As if he wouldn’t have a well-rehearsed “reasonable” answer for that question anyway.

     If you look at some of this statements, he repeatedly used the term “adult smokers”, rather than just saying “smokers”.
5. Colonial Viper 5

   8 August 2012 at 10:12 am

   Your business proposal would be more acceptable if your target market was not predominantly white, but full of coloured people.
6. Jane 6

   8 August 2012 at 10:38 am

   If poisoning puppies was a legal business then I guess you could set it up, buts it not.

   Dosnt alcohol cause more deaths, sickness and social issues? Ban that too?

   I’m in favor of getting rid of smoking all together, but until it is either illegal or just fades away over time then arguing over a legal business expanding seems pointless…
   • Colonial Viper 6.1

     8 August 2012 at 10:40 am

     I’m in favor of getting rid of smoking all together, but until it is either illegal or just fades away over time then arguing over a legal business expanding seems pointless…

     But don’t you think that its important for society to develop the discussion and to then present our law makers with appropriate pressure and recommendations?

     If poisoning puppies was a legal business then I guess you could set it up, buts it not.

     It’ll be legal in some target markets, so just sell to those.
     • Jane 6.1.1

       8 August 2012 at 10:51 am

       Yes, that is what needs to happen, and to some extent it is, the easiest way to reduce smoking is to keep increasing the tax, more and more people will quit as they head towards 30 bucks a pack, not all but many.

       Picking on a legitimate business and comparing it with poisoning puppies when the country is desperate for jobs and exports seems extreme.

       In the markets where puppy poisoning toys are legal it would be possible to setup.
     • Jane 6.1.2

       8 August 2012 at 10:57 am

       Yes, that is what needs to happen, and to some extent it is, the easiest way to reduce smoking is to keep increasing the tax, more and more people will quit as they head towards 30 bucks a pack, not all but many.

       Picking on a legitimate business and comparing it with poisoning puppies when the country is desperate for jobs and exports seems extreme.
       • Rosie 6.1.2.1

         8 August 2012 at 11:26 am

         Hi Jane.
         “Picking on a legitimate business and comparing it with poisoning puppies when the country is desparate for jobs and exports seems extreme”.
         I’m unemployed and desparate for work but theres no way I’d go and work at a fag factory as I’d then be in some way responsible for the illness and death of others. Believe me I’ve done unpleasant work out of desparation before but not work that harms others. Jobs at any cost, ie, setting up a cancer stick factory and creating jobs that way, isn’t a smart approach to reducing unemployment.
         • Draco T Bastard 6.1.2.1.1

           8 August 2012 at 12:33 pm

           +1

           Of course, this government is setting it up so that people who are unemployed will be so desperate that they’ll work anywhere for as little as the employer can get away with paying.
7. Tracey 7

   8 August 2012 at 10:44 am

   The only way to make something currently legal, illegal is to talk about it and raise the issue. Not discussing stuff is usually the slowest way to create a law change.

   I would like to see alcohol and cigarette smoking put on the same level as marajuana. If we’re going to be hypocrites let’s do it properly and tax the shit.
8. Tracey 8

   8 August 2012 at 12:55 pm

   Prostitution is no longer illegal, will a mayor attend a brothel opening on the grounds it provides employment opportunities for young unemployed women????
9. McFlock 9

   8 August 2012 at 2:51 pm

   Why would your dog-endangering chew toy be illegal? I mean, if it said “healthy life-extending chew toy” it would be a lie and consumer guarantees come into play. But if it had half the pack devoted to pictures of dead dogs, what law would it break?
            
    
10. Tracey 10

    8 August 2012 at 4:01 pm

    Animal Welfare Act and the Code for Dogs (2010) which includes 3.1.2 Risky foods and objects, and 7.9 Owners and persons in charge of dogs must take all practical steps to ensure that
    dogs are not exposed to poisons and harmful substances.
    • McFlock 10.1

      8 August 2012 at 4:34 pm

      Interesting. But a single exposure to the puppy toy will not cause suffering or endanger the life of the puppy at any appreciable level, so wouldn’t count as a “poison” or “ill treatment” at any stretch of the imagination.   
               
      60 toys a day for an extended period of years, on the other hand, will.
                 
      One might argue where that acceptable dividing line is, or even put it in a code of conduct, but the point is that dogs don’t make decisions for themselves. We do.
           
      Oh, and the other difference is that we are obliged to give dogs a lethal injection when they finally get an incurable and painful condition.
    • Roy 10.2

      9 August 2012 at 9:57 am

      Obviously not enforced or moronic owners who let their dogs wander in areas where 1080 has been dropped would be prosecuted for animal cruelty. Instead they get portrayed as victims on TV.
      • Moreen 10.2.1

        9 August 2012 at 3:59 pm

        No Roy the dog is the victim. I have a nice local farmer who sprays 24D directly onto me and my house and my tank water and fruit trees (which explains why after 10 years they have not fruited) he did this while I was at work and did not know he did this till I was made redundent 3 years ago and he is allowed to as it is a discretionary activity and just in case you wonder why I would buy a home near an agrichemical air strip, the answer is easy, they are not required to meet any health or safety standards or apply for resource consent, and so they sell off the land and do not disclose the airfield hey presto they have their quick buck and the goverment feels they are the back bone of New Zealand economy and they can do no wrong. They have been legally killing Nzers since 1950’s, just like tobacco company’s, just not as regulated
11. Robert Atack 11

    8 August 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Ray Wallace introducing Guy McPherson a few weeks ago in Petone
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZCNlXPlwmw&feature=plcp

    Clearly for Ray to say this ……….

    This morning Lower Hutt mayor Ray Wallace switched on a German-made Protos 80IR cigarette making machine – capable of churning out 8000 cigarettes a minute – marking the official opening of Imperial’s $45 million factory upgrade.

    Mr Wallace said since opening more than 80 years ago, the factory had provided ”thousands” of jobs and was now one of the Lower Hutt’s leading employers and ratepayers.

    ”Unlike other industry’s that have gone by the wayside, this one hasn’t. The fact that they have stayed here in Petone rather than go to Asia is a positive thing,” Wallace said.

    ”This level of expansion and investment is very rare in these economic times and I think we have to grab every opportunity.”

    Wallace, who has never tried smoking, said he respected Mrs Turia’s views, but saw smoking as a personal choice and he would support legitimate businesses who invested in the city.

    ”I’m here today as mayor to support one of our largest ratepayers, one of our biggest employers in this city, because that’s what the mayor needs to do along with the council, we need to be seen to be supporting the rate payers and our business that put substantial　 investment in this city.
    ———————————————————————————

    He wasn’t listening, he also didn’t listen when he attended the first Peak Oil talk given in New Zealand back in 2000, just another useless so called leader.
12. AmaKiwi 12

    10 August 2012 at 3:00 pm

    Public versus private values. Should there be a difference?

    If someone knocked on my door and said she/he wanted to brainwash my children to buy their brand of fast food, I would throw them off the property (if I hadn’t decked them first). Same for someone selling cigarettes or booze.

    Yet we allow these low-life scum bags into our homes constantly via television. Why? Some b.s. called the free market.

    I tried to teach my children if they advertise it, you don’ need it. Because if you really need it, they don’t have to spend money convincing you to buy it.

    One of the benefits of another Great Depression will be to help society focus on what is essential, what is trivial, and what is harmful. Great Depression 2 is already undeway. By the time it hits bottom let’s hope the advertising industry is ruined.

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