British Labour MP shot dead

Written By: - Date published: 6:14 am, June 17th, 2016 - 118 comments
Categories: uk politics - Tags: , , ,

In The Herald:

British Labour MP Jo Cox dies after being shot three times and repeatedly stabbed

A British Labour MP has died after she was shot three times and repeatedly stabbed in a shocking attack as she arrived at her constituency surgery.

Mother-of-two Jo Cox, 41, was rushed to hospital after a gunman opened fire on her in Birstall near Leeds.

Witnesses said the man was at the office before she arrived and shot her three times, once in the head, before stabbing her as she lay on the ground.
…
A 53-year-old – named locally as Tommy Mair – has been arrested by police and his house is currently being searched by police forensics experts.
…
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn said: “Jo was universally liked at Westminster, not just by her Labour colleagues, but across Parliament.
…
Aamir Tahir, of The Dry Clean Centre, said the gunman was heard shouting: “Britain first.”

What a horrifying attack. Condolences to Jo Cox’s friends and family.

118 comments on “British Labour MP shot dead ”

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  1. Pasupial 1
    17 June 2016 at 7:26 am

    If the witness (Tahir) is accurate, then the best way to punish the murderer would be to vote against the Brexit.

    • Southern Man 1.1
      17 June 2016 at 8:11 am

      Hmm, it never occurred to me that Crosby Textor might be involved.

    • Rosie 1.2
      17 June 2016 at 11:05 am

      Both leave and remain camps have suspended campaigning as a result on the murder of Jo Cox

      “Vote Leave and Remain have both suspended campaigning in the EU referendum in light of the attack.”

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/306584/british-mp-fatally-shot-in-street-attack

      I think the most respectful thing to do now, for the victim and her family would be to hold the referendum off for a year. It would only be right to get some distance between this atrocity and the vote.

      • AsleepWhileWalking 1.2.1
        17 June 2016 at 12:50 pm

        Waiting a year seems a costly move. Surely a few weeks delay would be respectful enough.

        • Rosie 1.2.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 1:04 pm

          This is a horrific murder of an MP in public and in daylight. On RNZ midday news there was talk of Tommy Mair’s connections with far right extremest groups. This is a shocking rift that has opened up in modern British Society that will take time to heal.

          There’s needs to be plenty of distance between the time of the crime and the public vote, to do the vote justice and to show respect for Jo Cox and her family. Put yourself in their shoes. Imagine going through all the hooha of the referendum, which isn’t far away, less than a fortnight I think, and knowing (potentially at this stage) that their beloved died for this.

    • Chooky 1.3
      17 June 2016 at 12:59 pm

      It is guns and males that are the problem…as they were in Florida

      • Liberal Realist 1.3.1
        17 June 2016 at 6:55 pm

        While I agree with the guns part, please don’t make this (Florida + the murder of Jo Cox) a gender issue just because the psychopaths that committed these horrendous crimes are male.

        If anything the atrocities committed in Florida and the vile murder of Jo Cox correlates with fascist ideology and hate, not gender.

        • Li 1.3.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 7:37 pm

          There is definitely a gender aspect to the issue.

          • Liberal Realist 1.3.1.1.1
            17 June 2016 at 8:00 pm

            Do you care to explain why you think that, therein backing your statement?

            • Chooky 1.3.1.1.1.1
              17 June 2016 at 8:59 pm

              It is a complex mix …but males and guns ( or war machines) are the point of no return…they turn problem issues into tragedy ( what gives males the God given right to kill people they disagree with?…religious fundamentalism? )

              ( does fascism = male fundamentalism/authoritarianism?)

              … and it is usually women and gays and those of another religious or cultural belief that are the victims of their violence

              http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/06/17/so-when-will-the-right-start-blaming-the-killer-of-jo-cox-on-christianity/ )

              …there are points of similarity in this tragedy with the Orlando tragedy

              ‘Orlando massacre’

              CrossTalking with Philip Giraldi, Fred Fleitz, and Omar Baddar.

              https://www.rt.com/shows/crosstalk/346714-orlando-massacre-islam-gays/

              A tragedy difficult to comprehend: The Orlando massacre again brings into stark focus a number of highly contentious issues – immigration, the nature of Islam, gay rights, America’s foreign wars and gun control. What went so terribly wrong?

              CrossTalking with Philip Giraldi, Fred Fleitz, and Omar Baddar.

              • stunned mullet …
                18 June 2016 at 12:32 pm

                The only thing more daft than your comments are the links within.

                Martyn contorts himself into some other dimension trying to smear whatever he dislikes while ignoring anything unsavoury that’s to his political liking and RT as usual appears to be playground or far right and far left loons so looney that in fact one can’t tell what part of the political spectrum they come from anymore.

                • One Two …
                  18 June 2016 at 2:01 pm

                  The links are there

                  So are the alleged shooters links to ‘military intelligence’

                  Same story repeated

      • Kelly-Ned 1.3.2
        18 June 2016 at 12:19 pm

        Whilst I would like to think it wasn’t a gender issue, being male myself, I can’t help thinking that it is.
        Can anyone recall an attack like this or in the US school atrocities that wasn’t perpetrated by a male?
        I can’t think of one.
        Maybe it is indicative of a significant (?) number of males not coping with modern life/environments/opportunities etc etc.
        Is it a societal issue that has affected males much more severely that females?

  2. Colonial Viper 2
    17 June 2016 at 8:30 am

    What kind of firearm was used. Much more unusual to have a shooting homicide in the UK.

    • Puckish Rogue 2.1
      17 June 2016 at 8:48 am

      Is it important to know the type? I’m curious as to why you think its important.

    • te reo putake 2.2
      17 June 2016 at 8:52 am

      Less unusual than we might think,CV. The number of murders using guns has increased in recent years, though thats mainly gang related. However, that might mean that the black market in guns is also growing.

      Anyway, just a sad, sad death. The cynic in me is wondering whether Cameron will use this as an excuse to can the referendum and save his own job.

      • D'Esterre 2.2.1
        18 June 2016 at 8:43 am

        Te reo uptake: ” Anyway, just a sad, sad death…”

        Indeed. Whatever the motivation, it’s a tragedy, and an ugly event in beautiful west Yorkshire. Condolences to all those closest to her.

    • Puckish Rogue 2.3
      17 June 2016 at 9:22 am

      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11658121

      From witnesses so take it with a grain of salt but:

      “According to witnesses, the gun he was using appeared to be either antique or modified. “It looked like a gun from, I don’t know, the First World War or a makeshift, handmade gun,” eyewitness Hichem Ben Abdallah told Sky News.

      “It’s not sort of like the kind of gun you see normally.”

      • Colonial Viper 2.3.1
        17 June 2016 at 9:56 am

        Thanks. I wondered whether it was a more ‘pro’ hit or whether it was someone who had nicked a weapon from their uncle’s collection. Just as deadly unfortunately of course.

        • Puckish Rogue 2.3.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 10:51 am

          I want to say just another nutter but saying “just” seems…wrong, like minimising what happened

      • joe90 2.3.2
        17 June 2016 at 12:24 pm

        “It’s not sort of like the kind of gun you see normally.”

        Hmm..

        According to records obtained by the Southern Poverty Law Center Mair was a dedicated supporter of the National Alliance (NA), the once premier neo-Nazi organization in the United States, for decades. Mair purchased a manual from the NA in 1999 that included instructions on how to build a pistol.

        Mair, who resides in what is described as a semi-detached house on the Fieldhead Estate in Birstall, sent just over $620 to the NA, according to invoices for goods purchased from National Vanguard Books, the NA’s printing imprint. Mair purchased subscriptions for periodicals published by the imprint and he bought works that instruct readers on the “Chemistry of Powder & Explosives,” “Incendiaries,” and a work called “Improvised Munitions Handbook.” Under “Section III, No. 9” (page 125) of that handbook, there are detailed instructions for constructing a “Pipe Pistol For .38 Caliber Ammunition” from components that can be purchased from nearly any hardware store.

        https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2016/06/16/alleged-killer-british-mp-was-longtime-supporter-neo-nazi-national-alliance

    • Richardrawshark 2.4
      17 June 2016 at 3:33 pm

      2 shot in levenshume just outside mosside Manchester in one year. had a dead person found stabbed outside my doorstep and I woke to cops knocking and police tape everywhere, and having to explain how I heard nothing. Yardies running round with sub machine guns, old police specials and shotguns available for about 50 quid in most dodgy pubs in the UK.

      Yeah, not much gun violence there CV../sarc

      but certainly nothing like the states, but far worse than here, though I don’t know about todays UK culture.

  3. Greg 3
    17 June 2016 at 8:34 am

    What a brave guy attacking a defenseless women.
    Right wing facist loons are no worse than Daesh.

    • Pat 3.1
      17 June 2016 at 8:53 am

      the closing of the circle……extremism begets extremism

    • BM 3.2
      17 June 2016 at 9:49 am

      Just as likely it was a disgruntled left winger, angry with Labour for opening the immigration flood gates to the UK.

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/6418456/Labour-wanted-mass-immigration-to-make-UK-more-multicultural-says-former-adviser.html

      • joe90 3.2.1
        17 June 2016 at 11:49 am

        Or a vulnerable unwell man who took to heart the racist rhetoric of Farage and his ilk.

        Despite being born in Kilmarnock, Scotland, a decade-old website posting identified Mair as a subscriber to S. A. Patriot, a South African magazine that was published by the pro-apartheid group, the White Rhino Club.

        The club describes the magazine’s editorial stance as being against “multi-cultural societies” and “expansionist Islam”. A blog post attributed to the group, dated January 2006, described Mair as “one of the earliest subscribers and supporters of S. A. Patriot.”

        […]

        In 2011, Mair spoke of how he had volunteered to work as a groundsman at the nearby Oakwell Hall County Park, which had helped ease his mental health problems.

        He told a local newspaper: “I can honestly say it has done me more good than all the psychotherapy and medication in the world. “Many people who suffer from mental illness are socially isolated and disconnected from society, feelings of worthlessness are also common mainly caused by long-term unemployment.

        “All these problems are alleviated by doing voluntary work. Getting out of the house and meeting new people is a good thing, but more important in my view is doing physically demanding and useful labour.

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/16/jo-cox-mp-everything-we-know-so-far-about-thomas-mair/

        An anti-migrant poster unveiled by Nigel Farage has been reported to the police with a complaint that it incites racial hatred and breaches UK race laws. On Thursday night, the Unison general secretary, Dave Prentis, said he had written to the Metropolitan police about the poster, which shows a queue of mostly non-white migrants and refugees with the slogan “Breaking point: the EU has failed us all.”

        http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/nigel-farage-defends-ukip-breaking-point-poster-queue-of-migrants

        • RedLogix 3.2.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 11:59 am

          Or a vulnerable unwell man who took to heart the racist rhetoric of Farage and his ilk.

          Yes .. that is sort of my point joe. I probably didn’t express that well, but damaged people like Mair are indeed terribly vulnerable to this kind of exploitation.

          You and I can listen to the likes of Trump and Farage and can parse out the rhetorical bullshit. Even if hypothetically we intellectually agreed with their politics, we’d still understand the difference between hyperbole and reality.

          But as I said above, every society has a layer of people (an ‘underbelly’ if you are being unkind about them) of damaged and toxic individuals who can’t tell the difference. And they’re the ones who’ll turn rhetoric into action.

          • mauī 3.2.1.1.1
            17 June 2016 at 12:29 pm

            Its impossible we will ever know, I’m more just asking the question, but if he was more supported in his volunteer work from the state or whoever then maybe he never shows an interest in extreme politics and violence. What if the state provides your basic needs and assists with how you want to live your life (within reason).

      • Richardrawshark 3.2.2
        17 June 2016 at 3:37 pm

        I have to agree BM, Mentally unwell, blaming the Labour government for it.

        I am a centre left I suppose but Blair was no labourite, more a Tory plant.

        People are real pissed with him.

      • the pigman 3.2.3
        17 June 2016 at 6:44 pm

        You are a dear and treasured fixture among the Standard’s regular opponents of the Left, BM, but don’t you think your shit-stirring might be a little inappropriate given the subject matter?

    • Daveosaurus 3.3
      18 June 2016 at 10:41 am

      Daesh are right-wing fascist loons.

  4. Puckish Rogue 4
    17 June 2016 at 8:38 am

    Well hopefully the strongest possible sentence under British law is handed down to the person that did this

    • save nz 4.1
      17 June 2016 at 9:15 am

      “strongest possible sentence under British law”

      Is that rendition to be tortured without trial like in the Mr Belhaj case?

      • Puckish Rogue 4.1.1
        17 June 2016 at 9:27 am

        Um no its the hope that the person responsible for this gets the strongest possible sentence allowed under British law

        • Richardrawshark 4.1.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 3:39 pm

          I would prefer he got the justice he deserves, and if he is a seriously mentally unwell person you and your baying ilk don’t hang him from the nearest tree.

          Again quick to judge with little facts and the ones you do have supplied by a hysterical click bait media.

          Sometimes the standards like a hang out for pre schoolers seriously..

    • McFlock 4.2
      17 June 2016 at 1:35 pm

      well, surely he should get the most appropriate sentence under British law?

      That might not be the strongest sentence available. Hell, depending on how disturbed he is/was he might just be sent to hospital.

      • Puckish Rogue 4.2.1
        17 June 2016 at 2:57 pm

        Fine then, the strongest and most appropriate sentence under British law which may or may not involve incarceration in a mental hospital

        Everyone happy now?

        • McFlock 4.2.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 3:40 pm

          not really, you’re still conflating “strongest with “most appropriate”.

  5. RedLogix 5
    17 June 2016 at 9:00 am

    This is why the behaviour of our political leaders matters; their rhetoric becomes a sociopath’s action.

    • weka 5.1
      17 June 2016 at 9:15 am

      Can you explain that more? I don’t understand.

      • RedLogix 5.1.1
        17 June 2016 at 9:30 am

        Every society has an underbelly of angry, dysfunctional, potentially dangerous sociopaths. For the most part they are held in check, moderated by civil society.

        But every nation has it fault lines, cultural, religious and economic. When a politician chooses to exploits them with rhetoric and immoderate language … the sociopath is emboldened. “At last someone appreciates me!”.

        The danger is that one small atrocity then triggers another in response. Then quite rapidly a society can unzip from the bottom up. I don’t expect it will happen in the UK now, but it did happen in our lifetime in former Yugoslavia. It’s not what Trump might do that worries me, it’s his more rabid supporters that are the danger.

        It’s a folly to predict where or when we might step over the trigger line next, but looking about at events in general, you have to think we are stumbling about blindly very close to it.

        • weka 5.1.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 9:34 am

          Do you mean that the murderer felt he could act because he’s been emboldened by listening to Trump (or the local equivalent)?

          We don’t know that he’s a sociopath. The thing that concerns me more is that non-sociopathic people are being socialised into hatred and that acting on that is legitimate.

          • RedLogix 5.1.1.1.1
            17 June 2016 at 11:40 am

            Here’s Polly Toynbee to my rescue:

            This attack on a public official cannot be viewed in isolation. It occurs against a backdrop of an ugly public mood in which we have been told to despise the political class, to distrust those who serve, to dehumanise those with whom we do not readily identify.

            http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/mood-ugly-mp-dead-jo-cox

            • Colonial Viper 5.1.1.1.1.1
              17 June 2016 at 11:51 am

              We’ve been told to despise the political class? In the main, I think that they have honestly earnt their reputation. Perhaps not individually but certainly in their support of a system which has been sending society (and the planet) down a dead end.

              • RedLogix …
                17 June 2016 at 12:12 pm

                I tend to view it as a fundamentally flawed system … in which people of all characters both good and bad, are eventually compromised or even corrupted.

                Some more willingly than others. And those who resist the most, like Jo Cox, are the ones who seem to attract fate.

              • Richardrawshark …
                17 June 2016 at 7:00 pm

                I’ve always said exactly the same CV, and weka and red.

                System is stuffing us all up, I don’t think it running as intended. simply put.

            • weka 5.1.1.1.1.2
              17 June 2016 at 12:47 pm

              Yep, I agree with that bit quoted. I get where CV is coming from, and I think there are politicians who have actively promoted the kind of society that creates this ugly mood. I don’t think all MPs fit into that though, and it does raise the issue of what happens when a privileged class becomes a target (unlike in say Orlando).

              • aerobubble …
                17 June 2016 at 3:07 pm

                exactly, a cyclist has more momentum, will avoid collision as it causes them more harm, and is aware there are blind peoole who dont see them, so only a politician would criminalize the activity where the harm from an accident is greater to the cylist. But then we are talking about councilors whose shop owners dont want cyclists hogging public footpaths as they want to with dangerous street furtniture and hot coffee spillages.

          • aerobubble 5.1.1.1.2
            17 June 2016 at 2:48 pm

            Violence breeds violence. Bush invades Iraq. Routine drone bombing. Agitated stressed sociopath join social chat. Rightwing and Muslim terrorists find equal benefit to destroyingxisting natiins. Brexit, a laughable excuse of the right to diferientiate themselves gets picked up by a UK PM looking for a distraction.
            Wavy hand guessing breeding more noise. Spiral begins. Polticians failure to reiterate societial norms in case of being tagged as politically correct, as framing setup by big media likes to push rughtwing agendas.

            The decline began with the rise of Thaterism, it fed off declining energy prices that had nothing to do with neolibs yet the growth was claimed to mean less govt, less regulation, oversight was just political correctness.

            Welcome to the age of ignorance is power.

        • Ad 5.1.1.2
          17 June 2016 at 1:56 pm

          Red, the logical progressions are very simple.
          Right now you can see Brexit/isolationist logic in full blood in Austria, Turkey, Poland, Hungary and the U.S.

          Really easy to break any union up, Euro or U.s: just dogwhistle up the rage, and accept no responsibility for any consequences.

    • save nz 5.2
      17 June 2016 at 9:25 am

      +1 RedLogix – inequality, unfair legislation and lack of power balance is fuelling the rise of people becoming unbalanced and desperate and global instability from divided people and nations. Increasingly in the West, this instabality within the nation’s themselves. Ie USA, Britain are divided and looking at two very different and radical ways to level it out.

      Economists and experts have been warning that inequality was going to have this outcome. It is happening.

      That is why there needs to be ways to preserve a reasonable standard of living for all such as UBI or working social welfare.

      TPPA and the like are going to make inequality a lot worse. They are not fair agreements and are depriving people of hard won rights and their right to justice.

      • Draco T Bastard 5.2.1
        17 June 2016 at 11:31 am

        Economists and experts have been warning that inequality was going to have this outcome. It is happening.

        And the governments, especially those in the West like the one we have now, have been putting in place policies that increase the inequality and deprivation that helps drive people to these extreme actions.

      • Chooky 5.2.2
        17 June 2016 at 1:34 pm

        +100 save nz and DTB

    • McFlock 5.3
      17 June 2016 at 1:41 pm

      minor quibble: “sociopath” is not a catch-all for all varieties of mental impairment or illness.

      This guy might well have been affected by UKIP bullshit to the degree that it merged with his personal circumstances to produce a unique delusion.

      Or he could just be a massive dick who also has some mental health issues.

      • marty mars 5.3.1
        17 June 2016 at 3:46 pm

        I’d add, as someone who works in mental health, that too many terms are bandied around as if they mean something. I am not saying that some sort of mental illness isn’t related to these events but it is not a given – sociopath, nutter, crazy, psycho, mental, da da da dah are meaningless terms in the way they are used to ‘classify’ by some.

        • Richardrawshark 5.3.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 7:06 pm

          I’d agree Marty, I think there has to be some special alignment of circumstances for most mental health incidents.

          Like the impulsive types being one of the worst at controlling their actions but not the most blatantly mentally unbalanced at first sight.

          I’ve always found the statement that the voiceless and disempowered have the least to lose, and the most to gain from political activism.

          When I see groups in society rapidly declining or under pressure I know somewhere a kettles boiling, sooner or later the tops going to come off.

        • KJT 5.3.1.2
          17 June 2016 at 9:00 pm

          O its OK. Just another nutter!

          Good. We don’t need to look at our dog eat dog, unequal, overly aggressive and uncaring society, as a cause.

          Ignoring the fact that most violent crime, proportionately, is committed by non-nutters. Including the serial child abuse committed by our politicians.

          • RedLogix 5.3.1.2.1
            18 June 2016 at 8:07 am

            I think everyone here has some sense of the links between an unequal, violence prone and uncaring materialistic society … and the impacts on human mental health.

            Coming off the back of the Dunedin Multidisciplinary study one of the most powerful conclusions they reach is that in the debate between ‘nature and nurture’, the answer is almost always BOTH. Virtually all behaviour can be modeled as a underlying pre-disposition of some type, combined with an environmental trigger.

            This leads us down the path of acrimonious debates parsing out whether the root cause lies with the individual or the society they live in. This is an enormously unhelpful reductionist habit that prevents us from properly understand behaviour in the whole.

            The point is, we ALL live in the same unequal, violent and uncaring society … but only a few of us pop out to murder our local MP. Equally as you say there are many mentally unwell people who are far more of a risk to themselves than anyone else. These two observable facts demonstrate that in neither social conditions nor mental health in isolation lie the root causes.

            Understanding these disturbing and frightening events demands a more sophisticated model.

  6. save nz 6
    17 June 2016 at 9:04 am

    Shocking. The nutters always seem to target the nicest most moderate people, apparently she was a former charity worker. Absolute condolences.

    • RedLogix 6.1
      17 June 2016 at 9:42 am

      Phil Twyford quoted in the Herald this morning:

      “She was just a huge amount of fun to work with, and had a great sense of humour. She was very proud of her working class background in Yorkshire.”

      Mr Twyford said he had followed his former colleague’s career with interest.

      “She was a great advocate for social justice and internationalism, and by all accounts was universally liked in the British parliament and rated as a rising star.”

      I don’t know what more can be said … those who knew her well will be devastated and will mourn deeply, and those like me who only just read of her this morning will feel a chill sense of forlorn loss. And a reminder that doing right is not enough; sometimes you have to be courageous as well.

    • Bill 6.2
      17 June 2016 at 10:30 am

      …she joined Oxfam in 2002. There she worked as head of the EU office until 2005, of policy and advocacy until 2007, and of humanitarian campaigning until 2009. In these posts she acquired a view of international politics that would inform the rest of her life….Subsequently she worked for Save The Children and the NSPCC, and was founder and chief executive of UK Women (2013-14).

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/jo-cox-obituary

      My initial suspicion was that her murder might have come about because of something personal, but then he apparently spouted some ‘Little englander’ shit according to (I think) unverified verbal accounts, and also attacked others according to some eye witnesses. The attacking of others suggests it wasn’t a straight up political thing.

      My brain’s categorising it as fucking fucked up shit at the moment

      http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/16/jo-cox-killing-shooting-mp-birstall-west-yorkshire

      • Colonial Viper 6.2.1
        17 June 2016 at 11:53 am

        Do the authorities know if the two of them have had appointments or contact in that office before.

  7. Ovid 7
    17 June 2016 at 9:59 am

    Via Reddit

    Local here, street away from the murderer and down the road from the amazing Jo Coxs surgery.

    Sadden and shocked. I know it’s trotted out on every one of these horrific incidents but the man was genuinely a loner who was batshit mad.

    He used to go to a mental health course thing that really helped him a year or so ago, after the elections it got discontinued and he sort of blamed her for it. Saw was giving too much to Europe and everywhere but locally which is just completely incorrect (her amazing Syria & anti slavery work etc). She cared a great deal about her constituency and she walked around Birstall as a local, not a shipped in MP. He was a lunatic with a grudge and that is a dangerous combo.

    A shocking day we won’t forget. I can’t imagine what her husband and kids are going through. My heart bleeds for them.

    If we have more people like Jo Cox in the world will be a different place in 100 years. Take a leaf from her book in your forward steps. Rest in peace.

    The commenter goes on to say:

    … He spent months resenting her apparently according to the estate grapevine. I didn’t know him personally but knew off him and saw him occasionally. Not a drinker or a lout like so many here, but he did seem a bit of an oddball. Very reserved.

    After the incident he calmly walked to the bus stop and sat down. He normally walks back up Field Head lane hill but to “make a quick getaway” he waited for a bus before panicking and venturing further afield on foot before being stopped. I think that speaks volumes about his state of mind.

    She grew up locally, i voted for her. She seemed genuinely nice and was a breath of fresh air from the previous candidates and politicians we’ve had in these parts – not just Batley/Spen but other local areas too. Losing her is a blow to UK politics and the greater Batley community. I don’t believe in god, but I hope wherever she is resting she is at peace. She deserves that.

    • joe90 7.1
      17 June 2016 at 10:04 am

      When I heard the news on the way home this morning Russell John Tully came to mind.

    • weka 7.2
      17 June 2016 at 10:21 am

      And I’ve read accounts from others in the neighbourhood who say he was quiet, did voluntary work, helped out in their gardens etc.

      I think we have to be very careful here not to conflate mental illness with violence. I think anyone who commits murder has to be in a mental state that is outside the human norm, but that’s a different thing than having a history of mental illness. Calling someone batshit crazy confuses mental illness with crazy actions. They’re not the same thing. People do crazy actions without having a history of mental illness.

      We have no way of knowing what the murderer’s mental health history was, not in what ways it was relevant or irrelevant. If he hadn’t had problems would he still ahve been capable of killing? We know that there are plenty of killers without mental health histories. If we want to blame mental illness, what do we see the solutions as? How much of his motivation was pressures from society?

      • Bill 7.2.1
        17 June 2016 at 10:38 am

        I think anyone who commits murder has to be in a mental state that is outside the human norm…

        That kind of reinforces ideas of violence being to some degree ‘batshit crazy’. There’s nothing really abnormal about people doing terrible shit. It’s fairly normal.

        Not that we like that idea – that such acts can be committed by people just like us. So we ‘other’ them as ‘abnormal’ or ‘batshit crazy’ – and then we carry on.

        • Pat 7.2.1.1
          17 June 2016 at 10:49 am

          “Not that we like that idea – that such acts can be committed by people just like us. So we ‘other’ them as ‘abnormal’ or ‘batshit crazy’ – and then we carry on.”

          ….except for the ones that are “batshit crazy” of course.

          • weka 7.2.1.1.1
            17 June 2016 at 10:54 am

            I think the point is that any of us could end up being batshit crazy given the right circumstances.

            • Pat 7.2.1.1.1.1
              17 June 2016 at 11:17 am

              think that goes with out saying….however “any of us ” don’t as a rule.

          • Bill 7.2.1.1.2
            17 June 2016 at 10:54 am

            What I’m trying to get at Pat is that if we create a given social environment, then all behaviours that take place within that environment are normal…there are no batshit crazies/we’re all batshit crazies.

            • Pat 7.2.1.1.2.1
              17 June 2016 at 11:01 am

              I had taken from your post that “insanity” was something you didn’t ascribe to….consider how those at the tweeted trump rally may view a “liberal tolerant’ position?……it is all relative, but at some point behaviour becomes damagingly aberrant.

              • Rae …
                18 June 2016 at 9:06 am

                Anarchy
                -archy means rule or government
                an- without, as in androgyny, anaerobic
                Anarchy – without rule.
                It could be peaceful or it could be chaotic, it is not exclusively either.

            • Pat 7.2.1.1.2.2
              17 June 2016 at 11:19 am

              do you think we have created such a social environment?……or are those crazies outliers?

              • Bill …
                17 June 2016 at 11:29 am

                I believe we’ve created such an environment. There are no ‘outliers’.

                • Colonial Viper …
                  17 June 2016 at 11:54 am

                  Caged animals in a very unpleasant zoo.

                • Pat …
                  17 June 2016 at 11:58 am

                  then we have anarchy and no need of laws

                  • Bill …
                    17 June 2016 at 12:18 pm

                    No Pat. It would mean we have chaos and a desperate need for anarchy. (You might want to have a look at what anarchy actually is in organisational/governmental terms)

                    • Pat …
                      17 June 2016 at 12:27 pm

                      know what anarchy is in both governmental and societal terms…..not a pretty picture in either form as both forms involve human beings

                    • Colonial Viper …
                      17 June 2016 at 12:59 pm

                      anarchy = localised democratic organisation disempowering central authorities

                      will be one of the better futures that we can hope for.

                    • Pat …
                      17 June 2016 at 1:11 pm

                      “anarchy = localised democratic organisation disempowering central authorities”

                      thats an oxymoronic definition of anarchy Ive not come across before…unsurprisingly.

                    • Pat …
                      18 June 2016 at 11:00 am

                      and when you’ve finally agreed what form your “anarchy” will take (if ever) what do you propose to do with those that oppose it?

                      Yes anarchy is the answer…..if you exclude human involvement.

                      Good luck with that one.

        • weka 7.2.1.2
          17 June 2016 at 10:52 am

          True, but that wasn’t what I meant, although I agree that normal people do terrible things, which was kind of my point. We don’t have to make out that he was mentally ill and therefore killed someone. He’s the guy down the road as far as I can tell.

          By outside the human norm, I meant that to stab someone or pull a trigger, you have to have a certain kind of thing going on in your brain and physiology at the time that is outside the day to day norm. I don’t mean that’s it abnormal, we have changes in our brains and physiology all the time. I mean that generally people who commit murder aren’t in an everyday frame of mind, something else is going on. That’s not the same thing as having a mental health history.

          And most humans don’t murder others, so it’s an act that is outside the cultural norm in most societies. Where it becomes the norm, there are specific things going on in that culture.

          My objection to the reddit comment was the conflation of mental illness with murderous mindset. I just don’t think they are the same thing as we run a number of risks when we talk about these situations as if the person were batshit crazy (i.e. a murderer) because he was mentally ill in the past.

          • Bill 7.2.1.2.1
            17 June 2016 at 11:24 am

            It’s not that I disagree with you per-se, but…

            Many, many things depend on being in a certain state of mind that might be said to be “outside the day to day norm” (Admittedly, I’m scratching my head at the whole concept of a “norm”). In the end, there is no “outside (of) the day to day norm”. The “norm”, if such a thing exists, is anywhere within a range of behaviours demarcated by the sum total or aggregate of all behaviours.

            Some of those behaviours will be generally viewed as positive and some negative. My question would revolve around our acceptance of an environment that creates a given range of behaviours if and when many of those behaviours are a bit fucked up.

            It’s an old argument. But put a pile of monkeys in a cage and watch the neurotic and/or destructive behaviours flourish. I don’t know why we act all surprised at fucked up (undesirable) behaviours being exhibited by people in societies when those societies, in so many ways, are like having been popped into a pressure cooker and the lid screwed down by some now departed ‘great chef in the sky’.

            Disclaimer: I do not believe in any sky chef. We have the wherewithal, if we choose, to stop stuffing one another into the pot 😉

            • Pat 7.2.1.2.1.1
              17 June 2016 at 11:29 am

              “We have the wherewithal, if we choose, to stop stuffing one another into the pot 😉”

              although in theory I agree we do have that capacity, sadly I think the reality is we don’t….too many crazies.

            • weka 7.2.1.2.1.2
              17 June 2016 at 12:38 pm

              (Admittedly, I’m scratching my head at the whole concept of a “norm”)

              Let’s use a different word then, because I think that’s getting the in the way of understanding what I meant.

              When someone goes to pull the trigger to kill someone, I think there are a whole ranges of processes going on physiologically that we might call or say affect the mental health of that person in that moment. If we took a snapshot of those processes of everyone in NZ today, I think we would find that there was a bell-curve where a big chunk of people had similarities and there were people in smaller numbers who had different kinds of processes going on (all those are normal btw, being on the outer of the edge is normal too).

              So at the point that someone commits murder their physiology/mental state changes (IMO). You don’t kill someone from a normal everyday state, something else is happening. In that sense that person could be ‘batshit crazy’, but not have any previous history of mental illness.

              It would probably help if I said that I don’t think that mental illness is a discrete thing that is separate from mental health with a dividing line in between. I’m talking about a whole range of mental states, some of which we call mental illness. Unfortunately the ones we label mental illness get stigmatised, and when we then associate violence with mental illness we stigmatise further.

              My point above was about the time period when the murder occurs. I agree with the general points being made about putting humans in intolerable situations and them then acting ‘batshit crazy’.

              The irony here is that many people with mental illness are in the situation they are in because they too have been put in intolerable situations.

              • KJT …
                17 June 2016 at 9:12 pm

                Good on you Weka.

                So many people reinforce the idea that those with mental illness are automatically dangerous.
                If anything the stigma makes people less likely to seek help.

                Some one with a diagnosed mental illness is statistically less likely to harm some one else than the general population. Several times more likely to harm themselves, unfortunately.

                Mentally ill people have the same variations in conscience, regard for others as everyone else.
                I would say many have more compassion and empathy, after knowing what it is like to have been through the ringer themselves.

                This simply shows that desperate people do desperate things.

                “He used to go to a mental health course thing that really helped him a year or so ago, after the elections it got discontinued”

                We will get a lot more of this in New Zealand soon as our multiplying numbers of desperate people act out. Unfortunately it is often the nearest target, as in this case, not the right target.

      • Macro 7.2.2
        17 June 2016 at 12:00 pm

        I think the answer lies is the comment quoted by Ovid above:

        He used to go to a mental health course thing that really helped him a year or so ago, after the elections it got discontinued and he sort of blamed her for it. Saw was giving too much to Europe and everywhere but locally which is just completely incorrect (her amazing Syria & anti slavery work etc).

        This would be the further cuts to the NHS and its consequences for mental health made by the torys . In the post election budget.
        The consequences of continual cuts which don’t heal, can be disastrous, and tragic.

    • Rosie 7.3
      17 June 2016 at 11:12 am

      Thanks Ovid

  8. mauī 8
    17 June 2016 at 10:06 am

    A tragedy. What an inspirational lady Jo Cox was.

  9. Enviro Gal 9
    17 June 2016 at 10:36 am

    Sympathy and love to Jo Cox’s family
    and condolences to the whole Labour movement people such as Jo are such gems.
    Gone too young, cause hatred.

  10. Rosie 10
    17 June 2016 at 11:11 am

    What a horrible week.

  11. joe90 11
    17 June 2016 at 11:13 am

    Aamir Tahir, of The Dry Clean Centre, said the gunman was heard shouting: “Britain first.”

    Britain First is the rump end of the remains of the BNP.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britain_First

    • Rosie 11.1
      17 June 2016 at 11:55 am

      Oh god, thats ugly. I guess the cops will be looking into Tommy Mair’s links with groups that promote extreme ideologies, in light of his exclamation.

    • Colonial Viper 11.2
      17 June 2016 at 11:58 am

      Not sure that will finally mean anything apart from something to yell out. The Orlando shooter said that he supported both ISIS and Hezbollah. Which is a nonsense since both are implacable enemies of the other and suggests he was properly confused about he was saying and why.

  12. Rocco Siffredi 12
    17 June 2016 at 12:04 pm

    The UK needs more gun control.

  13. weka 13
    17 June 2016 at 12:44 pm

    I think it’s safe to say by now that at least some people who murder publicly understand that if they shout out something political they will get a lot more attention.

    I think it would also be fair to say that there are people without direct political affiliations who feel shouting out something political has meaning for them anyway.

  14. NZJester 14
    17 June 2016 at 3:27 pm

    The talk is the “Britain First” shout never happened and was some opportunists trying to use her death to further their cause in the upcoming vote.
    Witnesses said no such shout ever happened and it has come to light that the man was mentally unwell.

    • toad 14.1
      17 June 2016 at 5:30 pm

      “The talk” originates from the far right Britain First website (no link provided, look it up yourself if you really want to go there) which quotes witnesses who did not hear Mair yelling “Britain First” and wrongly claims those are the same witnesses reported in the MSM as having heard this.

      That does not refute the accounts of those other witnesses who claim they did hear it.

      Also, it seems this guy had some pretty longstanding neo-Nazi links.

  15. Yossarian 15
    17 June 2016 at 8:01 pm

    The cold blooded murder of Jo Cox MP is beyond comprehension. Thoughts go out to her husband, children & family, for a person whom only wished to help people in her role as an MP & previously in her roles with Oxfam, UNICEF etc. Due process has to follow & the alleged murderer brought to justice. Some have commented on his mental state & extreme right wing views to try & understand the murder of an innocent. As a current resident of the UK it’s hard to explain the mood of many with next Thursday’s EU referendum looming. However there seems to be a poisioness under current of fear & scaremongering at play. Both sides to a lesser or greater degree are guilty of this. From Remain The Establishment, Goverment & especially Cameron & Osborne running a message of if there is a vote to leave there will be everything from a massive recession, huge public sector cuts enforced by a punishment budget to even talk of an exit could lead to World War Three. The Brexit Campaign runs a meme of taking control back with very little details plus attaching himself to them is the racism of Farage & his band of little Englanders. Both sides are guilty of creating an envoirment of fear & it’s disgusting! This in no way excuses the action of the murder of an innocent. Yet where politicians have hurled such vile abuse & lies at one another, it sets the example that others may follow to the extreme. I recall the referendum in Scottish Indy referendum in 2014, yes the issue was very contentious and passionately fought yet it engaged people without hatred. It’s atmosphere was totally different to this current one of vile & denial. Both sides here now have an onus on them for the sake of hope to conduct this issue with dignity & to provide facts not fear. Rip Jo Cox MP

  16. Brian 16
    18 June 2016 at 6:52 am

    Deepest sympathies and condolences to family and friends.

  17. Robert Atack 17
    18 June 2016 at 8:17 am

    I guess popping off one person to swing idiot public opinion was a shit load better than say 3,000 on 911 ?

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