Citizenship is a human right
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- Date published:
9:40 am, July 29th, 2021 - 81 comments
Categories: australian politics, Gerry Brownlee, human rights, International, jacinda ardern, Judith Collins -
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There is a poor lost soul who is both a New Zealand and Australian citizen who in 2014 chose to travel to the Middle East to be part of a community supportive of Islamic State. Her name is Suhayra Aden. She has spent most of her life in Australia but was born in New Zealand and has dual citizenship. She has two children who were born in the Middle East but who are also New Zealand citizens.
Using its reprehensible citizenship stripping law Australia has taken away her Australian citizenship leaving her to be New Zealand’s problem. They did this even though she left Australia for Syria in 2014 before the law was in force. The decision has caused some fraying of the Trans Tasman relationship. And the New Zealand Government has agreed to accept her and her children back into the country, essentially because it had no choice.
Radio New Zealand has the details:
Suspected of links to Islamic State, Aden was born here but raised and radicalised in Australia, a country she’s called home since she was six years old. It made Australia’s decision to revoke her citizenship stick even harder in New Zealand’s craw.
Australia dumped its responsibility squarely in New Zealand’s lap, bullishly and unapologetically. The angry response and pleas for co-operation from Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern went unheeded. The promise from her Australian counterpart Scott Morrison that it won’t happen again is a hollow offering.
No one should be surprised Australia refused to bow – consider Morrison’s own domestic audience and his country’s long-held hardline stance at the border – it was never in its interests to give any quarter to someone with links to a brutal terrorist organisation, even in the absence of specific charges or allegations.
The last comment however misses the big point. Citizenship is a right and even if you are a ratbag, or a totally delusional thinker, you should be entitled to retain your passport and your ability to return to your home country.
As I said earlier there are some pretty fundamental human rights at stake. Just check the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights if you need proof. Protected rights include this one:
Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.”
And these two:
Everyone has the right to a nationality …
No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Of course Australia has not been the best at recognizing international human rights and respecting the rights of an individual. Just read any of the Standard posts about Peter Dutton to realize this is another example of weaponised brutality for political advantage.
Until recently Aden and her children were being held in Turkey. Negotiations are now concluded and they will be returned to New Zealand.
As Pablo at Kiwipolitico points out in this very persuasive post Aden has not been accused of being involved in any overt terrorist activity. He has described her as being a concubine and the description appears to be accurate. Certainly Interpol have not treated her as a person of interest for criminal charges and you get the impression that she is someone who does not present a threat. Pablo suggests that she was not involved in any violence activity and may have been held against her will.
So what will National and Judith Collins do? I am afraid Judith’s response yesterday was rather predictable and she did not rule out having the same law that Australia has.
From Newshub:
National isn’t happy, with leader Judith Collins calling the decision a “total disappointment” on Wednesday.
“We got done over by the Australians and it’s not like she had anything to do with us other than she happened to be born here, left when she was six and you know I just feel sorry for her poor little kids,” she told The AM Show.
“They’ve been brought up and dragged up, you could say, in a place like Syria in IS camps and this woman chose to marry three times to IS fighters… I just think we are going to rue the day that we have to take her in.”
As for following Australia and changing the law:
Bridges then asked whether New Zealand should consider a law that would automatically revoke the citizenship of Kiwis who join terrorist groups.
Collins said it should be considered but conceded it would come with challenges.
“It’s very hard to do that with someone who is born in the country.”
If by “getting done over by the Australians” you mean them refusing to do what they do and breach some pretty fundamental rights then you may have a point.
Gerry Brownlee has also been sipping the racist kool aid. From Radio New Zealand:
National’s foreign affairs spokesperson Gerry Brownlee said Australia’s stance was unreasonable, but the New Zealand’s government’s decision showed the government did not have a high degree of concern for individual responsibility.
“I think you always have a choice,” he said. “You can’t really resile with the fact that this woman left Australia to join an organisation that wanted to destroy our way of life … that considered that the way in which we live in both New Zealand and Australia is somehow evil.”
He said it showed the government’s excuse that Aden could not be separated from her children did not stack up.
“Those children are victims of their parents’ decisions. We have organisations in New Zealand that regularly take children away from bad parents so … I don’t think the suggestion that there were family bonds there that could not be broken was reasonable.”
He thought it was “very poor” that the government would not give details about what kind of security arrangements would be in place, and the legal and operational security reasons given were “not good enough”.
“I think it’s just an excuse for not trusting the New Zealand public to know what they’re up to.”
Yep stripping someone of their citizenship and leaving them and their children stateless because they associated with some not very nice people should happen all the time. And his demand that details about the security arrangements be released is pure tripe. He knows this will never happen. These sorts of arrangements are never ever publicised for very good security reasons.
Pablo’s description of Brownlee should be bookmarked for future use:
Mr. Brownlee was/is a “racist dog-whistling, grasping-at-straws-on-the-security-angle tool.” I say so because Brownlee is the guy who ran the Christchurch earthquake “relief” efforts and sent private investigators to spy on insurance claimants and residents asking for help; who said that there were no white supremacists in Christchurch after the March 15 attacks; who hinted at dark conspiracy theories about Covid during the 2020 election; who railed about refugees during debate about the Control Order Bill last year when the Bill was strictly about returning Kiwis suspected to be involved in foreign conflicts. He was part of a government that regularly hid, misled or deliberately lied to the public on a number of issues, including those involving national security. He was an atrocious Defence Minister, more interested in junkets than full metal jackets, and a piss-poor Foreign Minister (among other failures) who was every diplomatic reception’s worst nightmare. He is long past his expiry date as a politician, so being a public buffoon is a step up.
This is a particularly vile example of the depths that conservative politicians including National will sink to. Shame on them.
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Labour warmly welcomes the Restoring Samoan Citizenship Bill as it passes its third reading, before becoming law. ...22 hours ago
- Government plan to reinstate live animal exports a “national disgrace”
The Government has taken a giant step backwards by reinstating live animal exports. ...2 days ago
- Pasifika justice as Member’s Bill passes final reading
Teanau Tuiono’s Member’s Bill, the Citizenship (Western Samoa Restoration) Amendment Bill, has passed its third reading and will become law. ...2 days ago
- Release: Minister of Education thinks New Zealand ends at the Bombay Hills
The Minister of Education has shown complete disregard for rural communities and their school bus routes in Question Time today. ...2 days ago
- Economists sound alarm on Government’s slash-and-burn approach
A group of prominent economists has released an open letter to the Government, raising grave concerns about the far-reaching consequences of its fiscal policy. ...2 days ago
- Release: Smoking numbers up under Costello’s watch
National’s repeal of Labour’s smokefree legislation has taken New Zealand further away from achieving a Smokefree 2025 and a smokefree generation. ...2 days ago
- Release: Call for Palestine recognition by NZ, Australian and Canadian MPs
Parliamentarians from Australia, Canada and New Zealand have written an open letter to their respective Prime Ministers calling on them to recognise Palestine. ...2 days ago
- Justice Select Committee opens floor for Treaty Principles submissions
Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...3 days ago
- Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament
Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...3 days ago
- Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons
Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...4 days ago
- Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill
The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...5 days ago
- Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope
The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...7 days ago
- Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...1 week ago
- Stand Up for Te Tiriti
Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...1 week ago
- Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon
As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...1 week ago
- Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation
The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...1 week ago
- Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned
The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...1 week ago
- Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors
...1 week ago
- Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors
Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...1 week ago
- Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care
Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...1 week ago
- Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect
The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...2 weeks ago
- Without action, an apology will be empty air
For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference
Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...2 weeks ago
- Urgent wake-up call on climate
The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...2 weeks ago
- Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world
Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies
Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...2 weeks ago
- Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- NZ must pursue independent foreign policy
The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Winston Peters must apologise
The Deputy Prime Minister should apologise to the public servant he named and blamed for something they did not do, and for misusing the rules of Parliament. ...2 weeks ago
- Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements
The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...15 hours ago - Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending
The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...15 hours ago
- Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review
Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...16 hours ago
- State of the art radiology machine for Auckland
People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...16 hours ago
- Foreign Minister to visit Europe
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...17 hours ago
- First arrests made under gang patch ban
Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...18 hours ago
- Better support for victims of sexual violence
The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...19 hours ago
- Government moving forward with Regional Deals
Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...19 hours ago
- MSA pilot participant update
One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...20 hours ago
- Attendance rates increase, again
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...21 hours ago
- Improving the lives of young New Zealanders
Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...1 day ago
- Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea
The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...2 days ago
- Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024
Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...2 days ago
- New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement
Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...2 days ago
- Latest Quarterly Investment Report released
The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...2 days ago
- New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...2 days ago
- Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight
The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...2 days ago
- LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils
The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...2 days ago
- Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed
The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...2 days ago
- Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double
Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...3 days ago
- Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference
Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...3 days ago
- Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...3 days ago
- Health survey results to help drive change
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...3 days ago
- Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025
A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...3 days ago
- New diplomatic appointments
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...3 days ago
- Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill
Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...3 days ago
- Red Tape Tipline goes live
Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...3 days ago
- Youth Parliament 2025 announced
The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. “Youth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,” says Mr Doocey. “The two-day ...4 days ago
- Police stats show promising change
After nearly a year in Government, Kiwis have seen significant change across law and order with promising early results shown across some Police statistics, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “In August 2023, I told New Zealanders that if they had not started to see a change in public safety within ...4 days ago
- Better coordination of anti-scam efforts
With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Online financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...4 days ago
- Minister to consider 7AA select committee report
Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. “I want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...4 days ago
- Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting
Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministers’ Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. “We need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,” Ms Collins says. “New Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...4 days ago
- Launching the White Ribbon Ride
The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Karen Chhour, was on hand to wish riders well at the start of the North Island leg of the White Ribbon Ride in Whakatāne this morning. The ride helps mark the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, ...5 days ago
- Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury
Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...6 days ago
- NZ signs trade deal with Costa Rica, Iceland and Switzerland
Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has signed a pioneering trade agreement that prioritises New Zealand’s sustainable exports at a ceremony during APEC in Peru today. “The Agreement on Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS), between Costa Rica, Iceland, and Switzerland was concluded in July of this year and opens up significant ...6 days ago
- Government and iwi work together on aquaculture
Five new Aquaculture Settlement Areas will help ensure Ngāi Tahu shares in the opportunities aquaculture offers for Southland’s economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. “The Aquaculture Settlement Areas (ASAs) I’m announcing today set aside space so the Crown and Ngāi Tahu can assess their potential for aquaculture development. ...7 days ago
- Government launches review to ensure electricity market is fit-for-purpose
The terms of reference for a review of the performance of the electricity market have been released. The review, initiated by the Coalition Government during the power crisis in winter will look at whether current regulations and market design support economic growth and access to reliable and affordable electricity, Energy Minister ...7 days ago
- Speech to Social Investment Hui: Jack and his whānau need our help
Kia ora koutou katoa. Nau mai, haere mai, piki mai. Ki te mihi atu ahau, ki te manwhenua nei, Te Atiawa, Ngāti toa rangatira, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you, Andy, for your introduction. Let me acknowledge you as the new Chief Executive of the Social Investment ...7 days ago
- Minister of State for Trade heads to Brisbane for PACER Plus meeting
Minister of State for Trade Nicola Grigg has travelled to Australia to attend the PACER Plus Ministers Meeting in Brisbane. “Trade plays a critical role in driving employment, economic growth, and improving the standards of living in the Pacific Region. The Government is strongly committed to supporting Pacific Island countries ...7 days ago
- Proposals to modernise conservation released
Toitū te taiao – Our environment endures The Government is consulting on proposals to modernise New Zealand’s conservation management system, aiming to protect relevant natural areas while supporting sustainable growth in tourism and regional economies, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. “Today, the Department of Conservation – Te Papa Atawhai is ...7 days ago
- Knowing superstitions aren’t real doesn’t stop us behaving superstitiously – why?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Stephanie Gomes-Ng, Senior Lecturer of Psychology, Auckland University of Technology Getty Images Former New Zealand prime minister John Key has three white rabbits painted on his helicopter, a nod to his “massively superstitious” habit of repeating “white rabbits” three times at ...59 minutes ago - Government slammed for pushing ahead with boot camps while trial still under way
The coalition has "absolutely no intention of listening to the evidence that comes out of their experiment", Labour MP says. ...2 hours ago - Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate
Labour claims Government is ‘cherry-picking’ smoking trends data to hide decade-first increase in daily smokers The post Smoke and mirrors in heated tobacco debate appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago - Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation
The Government’s economic adviser is sending a message it doesn’t want to hear – superannuation is increasingly unaffordable The post Treasury bangs the drum on ‘unsustainable’ superannuation appeared first on Newsroom. ...2 hours ago
- Victims of sex offending welcome shift on name suppression laws
A man abused by a former political figure is "immensely relieved" at a government proposal to end secrecy around sex offenders' identities. ...2 hours ago
- This week three parties stood together – can they withstand the storm to come?
There is plenty yet to play out, but the next election is at this rate shaping up as trio versus trio, writes Toby Manhire. A subplot of this week’s historic hīkoi mō te Tiriti has been the sight of the three opposition parties presenting a unified front. Te Pāti Māori ...3 hours ago - All 33 malls in Auckland ranked from worst to best
From the low lows of abandon empires to the high highs of a mall done just right. This is the second in the Malls of New Zealand series, where we rank the malls in major centres. Next week: Wellington. A note from the editor: This is the hardest ranking we’ve ...3 hours ago
- The cost of being: A clothes-mad 20-something who walks everywhere
As part of our series exploring how New Zealanders live and our relationship with money, a 27-year-old apartment-dwelling marketing exec explains her approach to spending and saving. Want to be part of The Cost of Being? Fill out the questionnaire here. Gender: Female. Age: 27. Ethnicity: Pākehā. Role: Marketing exec at ...3 hours ago
- China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term
Opinion: Recent discussions in Shanghai provide some insight into what’s likely to be on the table The post China likely to strengthen regional relationships in response to another Trump term appeared first on Newsroom. ...3 hours ago
- Nuclear winters know no borders
Opinion: The immediate horror of nuclear weapon explosions – the blinding flash, crushing blast wave, and radioactive inferno – is well documented.But what nuclear-armed nations either don’t grasp or won’t admit, is far more chilling: how their weapons could devastate even countries thousands of kilometres from any mushroom clouds.The collapse ...3 hours ago
- This week’s bestselling books – November 22
FICTION1 Kāwai: Tree of Nourishment by Monty Soutar (David Bateman, $39.99)Sample dialogue, all from one chapter:“That can’t be,” replied Taona doubtfully.“You were right. The pā is unnervingly quiet,” Taona murmured.“The Hākuwai,” Motukia breathed. “Our grandfathers told us they rarely saw the Hākuwai in daylight,” Motukia muttered.“Their fight would have been futile ...3 hours ago
- Burma the flying elephant
After about two and a half years of planning and waiting, New Zealand’s last elephant has moved to her new home at Monarto Safari Park in South Australia.Burma and her “human herd”, that is, her keepers, arrived last week, and she’s settling in well, according to Auckland Zoo’s Andrew Coers.“Something ...3 hours ago
- NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy
Senior ministers in the coalition suggested NZ’s membership will be re-evaluated if it restarts offshore oil and gas drilling The post NZ’s membership of Beyond Oil and Gas Alliance in jeopardy appeared first on Newsroom. ...3 hours ago
- Raw Politics: Six months in a leaky Bill
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon did not meet the Treaty Principles Bill hikoi crowd, sees “nothing” of merit in the Act-proposed law but the Parliament his Government dominates will spend six months debating a “divisive” measure.That’s because he has accepted there needs to be “aeration” of people’s views on the Treaty, ...3 hours ago
- Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field
Bidder Whakapapa Holdings walked away from the sales process last year, but says it’s now ‘95% there’ on a purchase agreement – so who blinked first? The post Taken to the brink, Govt is now close to selling big Whakapapa ski field appeared first on Newsroom. ...3 hours ago
- Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November
Loading…(function(i,s,o,g,r,a,m){var ql=document.querySelectorAll('A[data-quiz],DIV[data-quiz]'); if(ql){if(ql.length){for(var k=0;k<ql.length;k++){ql[k].id='quiz-embed-'+k;ql[k].href="javascript:var i=document.getElementById('quiz-embed-"+k+"');try{qz.startQuiz(i)}catch(e){i.start=1;i.style.cursor='wait';i.style.opacity='0.5'};void(0);"}}};i['QP']=r;i[r]=i[r]||function(){(i[r].q=i[r].q||[]).push(arguments)},i[r].l=1*new Date();a=s.createElement(o),m=s.getElementsByTagName(o)[0];a.async=1;a.src=g;m.parentNode.insertBefore(a,m)})(window,document,'script','https://take.quiz-maker.com/3012/CDN/quiz-embed-v1.js','qp');Got a good quiz question? Send Newsroom your questions.The post Newsroom daily quiz, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...3 hours ago
- Daily crossword, Friday 22 November
The post Daily crossword, Friday 22 November appeared first on Newsroom. ...3 hours ago
- Watts nears a landmark deal on global carbon trading
A framework for global carbon trading under the Paris Agreement is finally nearing completion at COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan after years of halting talks.Climate Change Minister Simon Watts is one of two ministers tasked by the COP29 hosts with landing a long-sought deal on Article 6 of the climate accord, ...3 hours ago
- Grattan on Friday: Marles plays a defensive bat on nuclear as the government rushes to get though la...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Richard Marles is an ambitious man who hasn’t given up the dream of one day reaching the top job. But, despite being deputy prime minister, his profile is much lower than that of Treasurer Jim ...8 hours ago
- Fears Māori will pay heaviest price if police carry guns
"Overwhelmingly, those people who die will be young Māori men," the spokesperson for People Against Prisons Aotearoa says. ...10 hours ago
- NEW POLL: Kiwis Overwhelmingly Support MPs’ Expenses Transparency Law Change
62% of respondents support the extension of the OIA to cover MPs’ spending, compared to just 13% opposed and 24% were unsure. ...10 hours ago - The House: Meanwhile, a week of passing law
The political week has been packed with worthy distractions, but all week Parliament has focused on passing new laws. Here are the highlights. ...10 hours ago
- The biggest difference between Hīkoi mō te Tiriti and past hīkoi: More support from non-Māori
Analysis - The diversity of voices during the hīkoi was noticeable - from tangata moana to young immigrants to elderly Pākehā from the South Island. ...11 hours ago
- The House: Samoan citizenship restoration – ‘It means we belong to this land’
When the bill to restore NZ citizenship to some Samoans passed this week, Parliament's galleries were full to the brim with members of the community. ...12 hours ago
- More Delays In Action On Use Of Puberty Blockers With Children
Women’s Rights Party Co-leader Jill Ovens says the Ministry has put New Zealand children at risk by continuing to allow “off-label” prescribing of puberty blockers at far higher rates than other similar countries. ...13 hours ago
- Police Minister adamant he wasn’t aware of gang members training at gun clubs
That is despite two papers from police that raised the matter with him. ...13 hours ago
- Shorten declares himself ‘a proud moderate’, saying Australians ‘in the middle’ shouldn’t ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Bill Shorten has declared himself “a proud moderate” in a valedictory speech declaring parliament has the responsibility to ensure the extremes of left and right do not set the terms of political debate. Shorten, ...13 hours ago
- New ‘best practice’ principles for superannuation products are coming. We asked a panel of exper...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matt Garrow, Editorial Web Developer Studio Romantic/Shutterstock We all know how important it is to save enough money for retirement – but what about spending it wisely when we get there? Even for those who have built up a suitable ...13 hours ago
- Government accused of betraying Kiwis’ trust over lack of consultation on live exports
The government has always vowed to reinstate live exports by sea, which was banned by the previous Labour government. ...14 hours ago
- 7 things you can do if you think you sweat too much
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Freeman, Associate Professor of Dermatology, Bond University ERIK Miheyeu/Shutterstock Sweating is our body’s way of cooling down, a bit like an internal air conditioner. When our core temperature rises (because it’s hot outside, or you’re exercising), sweat glands all ...14 hours ago
- Phenergan for under 6s is now banned due to hallucination fears. Here’s what to use instead
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nial Wheate, Professor of Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Macquarie University Australia’s drug regulator has issued a safety warning over the medicine Phenergan and related products containing the antihistamine drug promethazine. The Therapeutic Goods Administration said the over-the-counter products should not be given to children ...14 hours ago
- A new stage adaptation of Peter Carey’s Jack Maggs is a delightful homage to theatrical storytelli...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Campbell, Lecturer, Performing Arts, UniSA Creative, University of South Australia Matt Byrne/STCSA Jack Maggs is a delight and a homage to theatrical storytelling in Australia. Based on Peter Carey’s bestselling novel, Jack Maggs follows the ex-convict as he lands ...14 hours ago
- The government has introduced laws for its social media ban. But key details are still missing
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Angus, Professor of Digital Communication, Director of QUT Digital Media Research Centre, Queensland University of Technology Ron Lach/Pexels The federal government today introduced into parliament legislation for its social media ban for people under 16 years. Communications Minister Michelle ...14 hours ago
- Archives NZ, National Library to cut 27 roles
The Department of Internal Affairs wants to bring the two organisations under the joint leadership of the Chief Archivist and National Librarian. ...15 hours ago
- Gang patch ban: Members warn of potential for violence to ‘erupt’ as new laws enforced
"I can't see this lasting unless they have a budget to lock fullas up in jail which I think is absolutely stupid, really it's ludicrous," Ngavii Pekapo, who set up a Mongrel Mob chapter 54 years ago, says. ...15 hours ago
- ACT leader David Seymour raises doubts about Waikato medical school
Government documents show ACT leader David Seymour told the government he was "dissatisfied" with a cost-benefit analysis. ...15 hours ago
- National’s Erica Stanford allegedly calls Labour’s Jan Tinetti a ‘stupid bitchR...
The Education Minister has apologised in Parliament for her remark. ...15 hours ago
- Labour backs new Police Commissioner – but warns against routine arming
The alternative to policing by consent would be a police state, which New Zealanders don't want, the party says. ...16 hours ago
- Youth on boot camp pilot re-offended five weeks after release
Children's Minister Karen Chhour said while it was disappointing, it would naïve to think none of the participants would lapse. ...17 hours ago
- In photos: People of the hīkoi, and why they marched
Hikoi mō Te Tiriti has come to an end, going down in history as the largest march to Parliament in Aotearoa. ...17 hours ago
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Hopefully this week's efforts from Brownlee are just his political death throes. He deserves them.
Unlikely. He does seem to tenaciously hang on to political life like a demented cockroach.
Hard not to view most of the elders of the National parliamentary party like that at present – Judith Collins for instance seems to have cockroach abilities. It is hard not look at her outright racist grab on to Brash and his Hobson's choice as being pretty damn desperate.
Almost everyone that I had some respect for in National, whilst usually disagreeing with their views, seems to have exited or is in the process of doing so. Looks like some of them have become pretty critical of the current National party and its current course.
I have absolutely no problem with what the aussie have done in this case,(putting aside how unfair giving anyone dual citizenship when most of us cant have that luxury.)
Sometimes the message you send needs to be loud and clear.
Personally I think that we should have a close look at CER and the free access between us and Australia. It simply isn't working very well. I'm currently in favour of closing the borders and treating kiwis going to aussie and aussies coming here just as we would for most other countries.
In essence we appear to be subsidizing Australia through our welfare and support services for people that aren't paying taxes here, and often never have done so.
I'd like to shift to the full-blown short-term visa systems between here and aussie and dump the dual labour market. If people want to go to Australia or aussies to come here, they should get explicit residence and visas – the ames as almost everyone else.
Given how closely integrated the two nations are socially and commercially your views above read as flying in the face of the reality that NZ is a semi-autonomous member of the Australian Federation that everyone likes to pretend is independent.
Our biggest problem is that despite our deep and often dependent linkage to Australia is that we have minimal political leverage with them. I'd suggest that reducing that influence even further takes us in totally the wrong direction.
The federal government over there doesn't even pretend to listen to us. I'd ask what are the economic benefits of being associated with aussie that we don't have with our other major trading partners. As far as I can see most of their attitude is at best grasping, condescending and not based on any degree of respect. This has been a long-term trend and shows absolutely no signs of changing on the Australian side. I can't see the point of it any more.
Complete bullshit. We simply aren’t – or at least no more than we are with a lot of other places worldwide.
Sure there are banks and companies running integrated operations. I can't see any reason that they don't do that on the same kind of arrangements that we have with Singapore or most of our major trading partners. I don't see any significiant economic advantages of being associated in a special relationship with Australia.
I can see quite a lot of disadvantages to both to our citizens inside NZ and those over in Australia compared to what was present 40 years ago. Almost all of those disadvantages come directly from the unilateral policy actions of the arseholes of the Federal government in Australia.
Most of the financial impact of those decisions fall back on the taxpayers inside New Zealand because Australia clips the tax ticket on our citizens working in Australia but fails to deliver the services that they paid for inside of Australia.
ie – tell me any realistic benefit that people in New Zealnd have from associating with Australia that outweighs the way that they spend crapping over us and our citizens. Because I can't see them.
FFS Australia is completely irrelevant to me.
My current company is US based, with a local NZ company, and recently started being run by a regional company in Aussie. It is a regional organisation for APAC and a lot of other local country organisations. The region could have just as easily be run from a company in Singapore like so many others are.
I think I have transited through an Australian airport once in the last 3 decades. We mostly organise (and always have done so) via the net.
The last time I spent any time in Australia was in the 1980s. I work a bit with organisations there, but I work way more with organisation over the net in Asia, US, and even the UK. I have been through each of Frankfurt, Hong Kong, Singapore airport on business at least 5x more than I have ever touched down in Australia.
Right now I can envisage getting to the point in a few years where they can be kicked back here for getting a few speeding tickets. Aussie federal politicians simply doesn't listen to us – I can't see any evidence that any of them from any party intend to even try to to so in the future. I can't see why we should waste our time even bothering to explain the issues any further.
Meanwhile we keep losing our tax payer funded education to the Australia job market. I see is my relatives living in Australia who arrived after 1991 increasing living on a precarious edge. They have to come back here to get medical treatment that their taxes there should have paid for, and they don't contribute anything towards them or any superannuation or other welfare here.
Time to tell Australia to fuck off and taking steps to making sure that our citizens either have to come back, or they have to go through the process to get explicit residence or citizenship in Australia.
Australia may well be irrelevant to you personally – but extrapolating that to the idea that NZ's largest, oldest and most important neighbouring country is more than a little odd. It would be like asking Canada or Mexico to tear up NAFTA.
Still if you want to make the argument that Australia should immediately cancel the SCV444 of the 650,000 odd kiwis living in Australia and we should all arrive back in NZ next week – go right ahead. If you think we had a housing problem before. At least we wouldn't have a scaffolding problem …. 🙂
And if you have relatives who didn’t do what every other Aussie does and buy medical insurance to cover more than the Medicare card – then I’ve not a lot of sympathy.
'asking Canada or Mexico to tear up NAFTA"
Well thats what Trump did..
And no the uptake of private insurance in Australia outside or Medicare isnt as much as you expect (45%) despite the incentives with price surcharges if you leave it till later in life. A few million have what they call extras or non hospital cover only.
She was never charged with anything nor convicted of anything and as far as I am aware she was never told about the application. There is a certain Australian in jail in New Zealand for murdering 50 kiwis. His citizenship has not been revoked.
Can you tell me what the difference is?
Naturalised citizenship vs applying and becoming a citizen? In the case of the person you are referring to in jail in NZ, if that person applied for citizenship of NZ before committing that crime. Then I think many New Zealanders would want that citizenship revoked.
I think that you think too much that you think when in reality you exhale hot air from an orifice that you think is close to your brain, which might closer to the truth than you’ll ever know, when you think about.
Well best I not think you are trying to provoke me, then.
When you post turd-like comments you provoke a response. Your inane dribble is insulting. Please don’t make it worse, as I look forward to a quiet evening to chill out.
Is the murderous fucker a dual citizen, is his 2nd citizenship the aussie one .
I never said nz should strip her of citizenship.
That should have been done when she got Australian citizenship, no one should have dual citizenship
Hear Hear !
All hail to Paul Buchanan for telling it like it is – no holds barred. We are lucky to have him.
Judith Collins is a bitch. Her supporters are no better – ruthless, heartless with not an ounce of decency in their whole bodies.
This poor kid was radicalised as a young teenager (of course Judith didn't do anything silly when she was a teenager did she? Oh no, she was a paragon of virtue. sarc.) The young woman travelled to the Middle East full of ideological claptrap and fell into the arms of a group of the world's most dangerous terrorists. There is evidence she realised her awful mistake and tried to escape before reaching Syria but it was too late.
Its not an ideal situation but with strong security and support around her, she has every chance of making a full recovery and her two children will get a chance to lead a normal life.
That is what decency and compassion looks like Collins and Co. Why don’t you try it for a change.
We can acknowledge Aden has a right to NZ citizenship without going overboard on the whole poor innocent lamb who lost her way bit.
I did not call her an "innocent lamb." but nevertheless agree with mickysavage… she did lose her way – big time. In that sense I called her a "poor kid". Never done anything stupid in your youthful days popx1? And paid a price for it?
I've never joined a terrorist organisation that chops people's heads off, no
if we have to take such people back because they have the right to return to the country of their birth than maybe so. I wouldn't be lifting a finger myself to facilitate it. if you leave nz to go and join isis and their caliphate dont expect a welcome home from me nor any great concern if you find it difficult to return. We accept things because we have an obligation not because you are welcome home
We say in many countries eighteen is the legal age of adulthood.
So a young teenager of sixteen made a bad decision. She should be allowed to change her mind.
Where is the compassion?
You may have gone to "charm school" Judith, and developed shallow manners, but more is needed here.
Mr. Brownlee is clearly out of his depth, as are most of that group. They make Act's leader look good for goodness sake , and that is just sad.
We say in many countries eighteen is the legal age of adulthood.
It is said that a young person's brain does not reach full maturity until 25 years of age. Looking back on my own youth that seems about right.
"teenager of sixteen made a bad decision"
Shes 26 now and left in 2014, so that implies she was an 'adult' when she left.
She was radicalised before that.
Where is it said that ? I found a NZH story with headline of How she was radicalised in Australia but didnt even mention that at all.
The particular circumstances Im Ok with coming back to NZ, but being cut off from her parents and siblings may make he life very difficult here
She left at 18-19 and I think that based on other similar cases we know about in UK, it would have happened in the previous 6 months before leaving.
And the comparison with impulsive things we all could have done when that age. Going to Syria as a war zone isnt the same as going to Raglan for the weekend.
There was a similar court case that was conducted in hyper secrecy in the last 18 months or so. For some reason they got wind of her intentions and cancelled her passport so she couldnt travel.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/122839978/mystery-of-secret-passport-case-exposed-as-claimed-terrorist-threat
Judith and Gerry being morally wrong and Aden absolutely having a legitimate human right to NZ citizenship which we must grant is quite sufficient. I don't see why we have to pretend that you don't have to have a fairly significant flaws in the ethics and empathy department to be radicalised in the first place. She was 21 when she left.
She was 21 when she left.
So that would make her 28 now. But she's apparently 26. Don't think your adding skill is any better than the rest of us.
Manipulation of the mind can be subtle and persuasive. It can completely change the mind and personality. It happens in cults when people are vulnerable or deliberately made vulnerable often with a lot of social/peer pressure applied and many other ‘tricks’. People do get radicalized on-line but can step back from their device, and re-adjust their perspective, to some degree. This is so much harder when the target/subject is fully immersed in a persuasive, manipulative, and controlling environment and has little to no way of escaping. You can also think of Stockholm syndrome.
But enough about the National Party…
The establishment right is uncomfortably adjacent at times to the alt/white supremacist right. Brownlee's and Collins' crime is being too stupid to keep this fact discreetly hidden.
A well framed shot mickey, with Kruiger, Adams n smith is it and Goodfellow
Political cockroaches ….I like that handle it's fits in sooo many ways.
Political cockroaches for sure
"this woman chose to marry three times to IS fighters…"
“Those children are victims of their parents’ decisions…”
Cockroaches scrambling for the worst possible take to keep their brand alive. Have Collins and Brownlee not done anything in young adulthood based romantic notions, adventure or convictions that they've regretted later? Or do they have amnesia?
After that first 'choice' or 'decision' I imagine the next choices and decisions Suhayra Aden faced were between a rock and a hard place. The rock(s) possibly literal for a young woman refusing to marry.
cockroaches excel in the compost/muck so no wonder they're smiling
"Using its reprehensible citizenship stripping law Australia has taken away her Australian citizenship leaving her to be New Zealand’s problem"
https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/changing-your-citizenship-status/being-stripped-of-nz-citizenship/
Appealing to the jury?
Hardwired natural law.
https://twitter.com/LChittka/status/1388113664692133891
The human evolutionary gift of cognitive and abstract thinking notwithstanding, eh?
(Mind you, the human actor in your story quite ably demonstrates one of our other traits – mindless cruelty. Luckily, many of us also have the capacity for understanding and compassion.)
In short, we are not ants.
I don’t think this power has ever been used. Even Mark Taylor has not had his citizenship revoked.
And did you see where it said this?
“Before taking away your citizenship, the Citizenship Office will ask for your side of the story.
You will get a notice from the Minister giving the reason why your citizenship is being taken away.
If you think the reason is not good enough to take away your citizenship
You can apply to the High Court for an appeal, where a judge will make a decision.
You can also apply for a judicial review.
You have 28 days from receiving your notice to apply for an appeal or a judicial review.”
At least Natural Justice will be observed. It was not observed in Aden’s case.
Yes i did see the conditions and suggest that in the circumstances of Suhayra Aden her revocation was issued in absentia (she was incommunicado) and therefore there is a case to be made that those conditions cannot be practically met and the decision remains the Ministers….it may be argued it could be challenged after the the event but would not prevent it occurring in the first instance.
…oh and we regularly strip citizenship
“Between 1 January 2012 and 31 December 2019, a total of 15 people were deprived of their New Zealand citizenship.”
https://www.dia.govt.nz/Services-Citizenship-Citizenship-Statistics
S17. They all were migrants who acquired NZ citizenship by fraud. Just put them back in their previous situation. Cute that you didnt mention that fact
Cute???…you're an odd sort…I never checked and its irrelevant….theres always going to be a reason citizenship is revoked the point is it happens, contrary to Mickeys initial musing.
Its totally relevant. So fraud should be rewarded with status quo, thats goes against all legal principles. Im sure when they signed the papers it was in full knowledge of the wording saying any falsehoods could lead to citizenship being revoked. Plenty get rejected for falsehoods during the application process, that would mean just bigger lies.
Im not sure, but those would be for soon after the approval , not 15 years later.
Why you could have your citizenship taken away
If you are a citizen by grant
The Minister can take away your citizenship if:
https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/changing-your-citizenship-status/being-stripped-of-nz-citizenship/
You may notice a couple of things….the order of reasons and the final reason.
Ahmed Zaoui at least was a proper test of the security and judicial system that IMHO was worth doing. He appears to be well integrated now.
I am happy that our intelligence services already have a file on Suhayra Aden a couple of inches thick. She may not have convictions but she does have criminal networks. They should continue to track her, and Welfare and the Refugee Service should also support her. She's not a special case for nothing.
But higher on my list for the Police to track would be those we import from Australia who cause mayhem and damage.
Mr Zaoui apparently back in Algeria …
From Paul Buchanan's post:
And even if she was or knew about such things, the fact that she was likely acting against her will from the onset mitigates against accusations that she was actively engaged in terrorism. Evidence to the contrary, labelling her as a “terrorist” therefore seems to me to be smear of the most vile sort,
Yet there is also such a concept as 'giving aid and comfort'. Aden travelled illegally to the ME to do just that. Yes I accept she was young, gullible and probably realised early on what a monumental mistake she'd made. And given ISIS's medieval views on her role as a sex slave, I doubt very much she got anywhere near the actual fighting. Personally I'm happy to see here repatriated and given a second chance.
(Yet I'm struck by how that none of the young men who made the identical mistake – and again because of ISIS's medieval views on their role as disposable pawns and never got the chance not to fight – no-one would offer any of them a second chance. Their assigned role within ISIS may have been different, their motives not so much.)
Australian law clearly gives them the right to remove citizenship in cases like Aden's where this does not leave the individual stateless. NZ by contrast has chosen not to have similar legislation – and thus we get to wear the consequence. Unpalatable as that may be in this case NZ really just needs to breath through it’s nose on this one.
"Australian law clearly gives them the right to remove citizenship in cases like Aden's where this does not leave the individual stateless. NZ by contrast has chosen not to have similar legislation –"
https://www.govt.nz/browse/passports-citizenship-and-identity/nz-citizenship/changing-your-citizenship-status/being-stripped-of-nz-citizenship/
I doubt you will find a country that dosnt retain the right to strip citizenship provided someone is not left stateless…and probably several that can and do regardless.
Good link thanks. On first reading it seems that Aden was both a citizen of another country and by joining ISIS was "acting against the interests of New Zealand". That's a phrase that could be very widely interpreted and subject to challenge in the High Court – but I could envisage it being applicable here.
So are we really just complaining that the Aussies beat us to it?
I.m not sure of Mickeys motivation but i suspect the NZ govs objection was the lack of consultation before Aussie acted, not necessarily the act itself.
The diplomatic equivalent of an underarm delivery perhaps? At least no babies were thrown overboard.
No and No.
We did have a similar case of a woman who had her passport cancelled to prevent travel to Syria. Her citizenship wasnt revoked. Pat also avoids the relevant S17 provision for cancelling the citizenship of new migrants acquired by fraud
That does seem an inconvenience to the moral high ground arguments. 6 since 2017 if I am reading the table correctly.
Australia has even expelled its own 'born in Australia' citizens when they have acquired a foreign 'legacy passport'.
This isnt the only one very similar situation.
"Mr Smyth said he lost his Australian passport 18 years ago when holidaying in Ireland and returned home with the Irish passport his father had obtained for him.
"Life goes on for another 17 years,"
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/how-a-man-born-in-australia-lost-his-citizenship-and-fears-deportation-to-ireland-20151014-gk93q6.html
Citizenship is indeed a human right (affirmed by numerous legal standards), but should it be? Citizenship involves a social contract. A nation is extending certain rights to an individual in exchange for that citizen meeting their part of that contract, eg obeying the laws of the land. When an individual (at least an adult) makes a decision to leave the country and align themselves with a jihadist 'caliphate', "Infamous for its brutal violence and murderous assaults on civilians" (https://www.history.com/topics/21st-century/isis), shouldn't a nation have the right to review that contract?
Yes, it should be. Next thing, people get stripped of their citizenship because embarrassing politicians is 'against the national interests'.
It is and should be a human right. As to revoking NZ citizenship, please read the comments by Pat and the links therein as well as comments by a few others on this.
Pat didnt mention the S17 cancellations were for citizenship acquired by fraud…it just restored them to their previous situation.
That’s irrelevant because Ms Aden was born in NZ and has dual citizenship on that ground.
I'm inclined to agree with you to some degree. What for instance about people who commit to being members of criminal gangs, openly telling the rest of society that that they will flout the law whenever they wish?
In earlier times they were declared outlaws and literally outside its protection. I'm not sure we can go back there, but some people make me wonder.
When people commit a crime, they get charged, trialled, and penalised when found guilty. AFAIK, associating with a criminal(s) is not a crime. Similarly, the OP is about a woman who, AFAIK, has not committed a crime in or against NZ that justifies or warrants removal of her NZ citizenship. And even if she had acted against the interests of NZ the bar is high because it needs to be shown that it was done voluntarily, without undue force or pressure, for example. Please note that she now is a mother with children. In any case, there is a difference between a criminal and a terrorist organisation and I don’t think it helps the debate to conflate these two with whataboutisms.
Rights aren't contracts.
If you're born in a country, or build connections of equivalent depth, the country is part of what shapes you into who you become. That's a constant obligation on the country.
We can travel overseas and renounce citizenship, but it's ours to renounce, not the country's.
Thanks – good points. Interestingly Estonia have a law that allows the government to strip a person of citizenship who commits 'serious crimes against the state' (which all sounds a bit Orwellian). But (similar to the point Incognito makes above), there is a judicial process that is worked through in which a person is tried etc first.
Her citizenship shouldn't be stripped. Its unfortunate that Australia has done this but quite frankly… I don't have much sympathy for her and neither will the public. We as a tolerant liberal free society have a duty to allow her into her country of birth and prove we are better than the terrorists she left Australia to support.
She like all the other people who get radicalized on line made a choice be they red pillers, tin foil hats and antivax nutters incels , who hold super spreader spreader protest events and storm government buildings like Jan 6, incel shooters and terrorists who got radicalized online and are traitors and joined organizations that want to bring down free, liberal societies.
She may not have been a killer herself but she actively supported the terrorists and their ideology, traitor.
It's not a silly mistake a teen does , a silly mistake is a drunk and disorderly, getting into a fight, vandalism, stealing a car traveling across the world to join a terrorist network is not a silly mistake and any 16 year old knows better than that … So no she's not the victim here, unless all the other incels, antivaxers red pillers, white supremacists etc who get radicalized online are also victims. They are not.
You have to go looking for that propaganda and if you see videos of isis beheading lgbt people like me and throwing people off buildings and massacring people and burning down ancient artifacts which was what is was uploading constantly in 2013/2014 and think that's me I'm gonna go join up , I don't care what your age is you're a monster.
This is not a left right issue.
She is a citizen and she gets to live in nz but she is no poor innocent soul. She may not have killed anyone but she supported the movement. Made a decision to become a traitor to liberal society and now as a decent society we must show her that we are better than them with our tolerance but that doesn't mean we have to like her, feel sorry for her of forgive her.
Respect and forgiveness is earned… If she wants it she needs to work for it.
To me, citizenship is basically on the same level as the right to not get murdered.
Sure, watch her like a hawk, but she's still one of ours. Our responsibility.
If the aussies are so keen on stripping citizenship from teenagers, have they done that to the chch arsehole?
Very good point. And he murdered and injured. But he's a pale male. I guess that works to his advantage.
Is he a dual citizen?
Meh. It's not as if they couldn't pass another act if that was the only thing stopping them from announcing that murdering 50 people at prayer was unAustralian.
He not only murdered 50 people, he injured another 50 (some will be disabled for life) and he was on his way to another mosque to murder and injure a whole lot more but thankfully was captured. But he has not been stripped of his citizenship.
NZ should deport him and lets see how the Aussies handle it.
If we deport him, I can't help thinking that one or two aussie pollies would openly try to get him released.
Australia have no legal way to keep him in prison if we deported him now. Anyway hes a full life term here so the usual case of being deported when getting parole doesnt apply.
All their anti-terror legislation wouldn't let them imprison an actual terrorist? Fascinating.
If he'd gone to the Middle East and done the same thing as he did here and landed back at the airport they'd just let him go. And the same if his name was Bren el Tar Ant?
51
However it may be being abused by Australia, I'm not convinced that multiple citizenship is a human right – and I can think of a few instances of wage theft where the perpetrator might reasonably lose NZ citizenship – having neither learned the culture nor complied with the laws as a citizen ought.
It is one thing to create stateless persons as depriving people of their only nationality might – and quite another to revoke, say, the unearned privilege of "citizen" Thiel to speculate in our property market. I'd shed no tears (or pixels) on that person's behalf, nor for any technicality that protects him, instead of his supposedly adopted country.
She should at least be investigated and jailed. She's getting a free ride while other new zealders are trapper overseas not to mention migrant families.
Actually she should just rott in jail and let her kids grow up with a better future
and her children?
Foster family obviously. She'd hardly be a fit mother
Im not sure our current state care system inspires much confidence of good outcomes.
There's already a serious shortage of folk willing to foster kids with few if any demanding mental health/behavioural issues.
Do you think foster parents able to fulfill the needs of these kids, likely awfully traumatised by their experiences, grow on trees?
I think anything will be better than being left with her.
Let me turn this back to you to show you what a simpleton comment that was: I think your children will be better off without you.
Lets take a step back and look at the different Countries who financed the terrorists in the first place .. She tried to escape WITH her children, as a Mother she is ok, her experience is her best teacher, the Family need support now ..