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Daily review 18/10/2021

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, October 18th, 2021 - 107 comments
Categories: Daily review - Tags:

Daily review is also your post.

This provides Standardistas the opportunity to review events of the day.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Don’t forget to be kind to each other …

107 comments on “Daily review 18/10/2021 ”

  1. Herodotus 1

    I have deleted and re edited this comment many times, most version are not that complementary to our PM, government and enablers.

    Try dealing with school kids losing it over exams and from my social circles and family who teach this is wider spread than a few isolated examplesDon’t tell high school students and parents to wait until Wednesday for some direction on our path. The emotional toll is mounting and I hope that any out there also utilise the help out there. I will leave it there before I embarrass someone 🤬

    • Andre 1.1

      Yeah, today's performance was totally fucking unsatisfactory.

    • Jester 1.2

      What is the target Auckland needs to get to, to get out of level 3?

      • Andre 1.2.1

        Jacinda might grace us with the magic number on Friday. Maybe.

        She hasn't promised a plan for how to get to whatever that magic number might be.

        • Jester

          I was pretty unimpressed with todays speech from the podium. Being in Auckland, all I know for sure is we are still locked down at level 3.1 for the next two weeks at least. What is happening about schools? What does Auckland need to do to get out of this lockdown? No dates, no targets. Only future announcements where we might learn more.

          • mikesh

            Well, as HC would have said … … "diddums".

            • Jester

              I'll pass on your kind thoughts to those hairdressers, beauticians, shop keepers and other business people trying to keep people employed on wage subsidies and their businesses afloat after nearly 10 weeks of lock downs and no income I'm sure when they are re-mortgaging their houses they will think of your kind words "diddums".

    • Treetop 1.3

      There is a lot to consider on allowing students back to school. Those in year 11, 12 and 13 due to exams and NCEA levels.

      Those in new entry to year 8 who are not eligible for vaccination are going to be exposed to a virus and take it home.

      I think it will not be compulsory to send a student back to school. Levels of anxiety are going to be seen in schools and this will need to be managed. Some students may end up learning more at home.

      The learning resources need to be made available to students who are being disadvantaged.

      No one wants students to be deprived of receiving the best education that can be given. Or to expect teachers to be responsible for the welfare of their students when not knowing how Covid is going to impact the school community.

      • Sabine 1.3.1

        and yet here we are 18 month into a pandemic that is world wide, has caused havoc world wide, and we have no plan up and running in regards to anything, not even how to educate our children.

        • Anne

          Hindsight is a wonderful things ain't it Sabine. We all knew from early 1920 that this is exactly where we would be in October 1923. So clever of us, so why didn't the government and the experts know? (sarc)

          • Sabine

            We have had 18 month of hindsight. The delta outbreak in India happened earlier this year. China welded the doors shut on apartment doors in January last year.

            The US has agressively been vaccinating since Biden moved to the white house. Ditto France, Germany, Italy etc. All have seen several waves of Covid wash over their countries, and we should be able to learn from it.

            At the very least we should have some plans in place for the education of our young ones. But we always seem to be one step behind.

            If we dont' start having some hindsight by now, we never will, and how can we have then foresight to anticipate? Or is that something the governments risk analysts don't do?

            • Anne

              Think you have missed my point. We as a nation of people had no more hindsight in early 2020 than the experts did so rabbiting on about a lack of hindsight by experts is a bit of an own goal.

              As for plans for the future. Did you not hear the bit about:

              1) Plan for Maori community. Today I think.

              2) Plan for Educational sector. Tomorrow

              3) Big plan for whole country. Friday.

        • Treetop

          Preserving life has been the plan. A plan needs to deliver a good outcome. If it does not then it has failed. Same for having no plan.

  2. weston 2

    Anyone heard anything more about packs of dogs supposedly running wild up north ?Doc spokespeople ive heard on the subject a couple of times say they,re a threat cause they might carry Rabies !.Im just supprized there havnt been more reports of dog attacks on stock although they could be living on possums i guess .

  3. Drowsy M. Kram 3

    If NZ emerges from this pandemic with a per capita Covid death rate one tenth that of Aussie's, and less than one 300th that of the UK/USA, then at least some voters will cut our government a bit of slack, personal feelings of entitlement notwithstanding – I know I will.

    A time of troubling division [16 Oct 2021]
    It does mean that when we need to come together to figure things out, we try to do so with enough respect and empathy that we give ourselves a chance of making it work.

    Unite against COVID-19

    • Andre 3.1

      Your sense of security and other warm fuzzies is being taken from the hides of Aucklanders suffering really fucking onerous removals of our actual rights. With our government failing to provide any kind of clarity on any substantial actions to get us out of the situation, just trying to make do with soothing meaningless noises about some kind of plan maybe sometime vaguely in the future.

      • RosieLee 3.1.1

        Your actual rights? And what are they pray tell.? What about your responsibilities? Who do you think you are?

        • Ed

          Well said, RosieLee.

          As citizens, we have responsibilities to others.

        • Andre

          Bill of Rights Act:

          Manifestation of religion and belief

          • Every person has the right to manifest that person's religion or belief in worship, observance, practice, or teaching, either individually or in community with others, and either in public or in private. REMOVED

          Freedom of peaceful assembly

          • Everyone has the right to freedom of peaceful assembly. REMOVED

          Freedom of association

          • Everyone has the right to freedom of association. REMOVED

          Freedom of movement

          • (1)Everyone lawfully in New Zealand has the right to freedom of movement and residence in New Zealand. REMOVED

            (2)Every New Zealand citizen has the right to enter New Zealand. REMOVED

          I've done my responsibilities and got fully vaccinated at my first available opportunity. Have you?

          Who the fuck do you think you are?

          • Cricklewood

            At this point you shouldnt be angry at the unvaxxed as of weeks ago there should have been a vax passpot system and rapid testing up and running allowing a bunch of places like hairdressers for example to reopen. Thats a govt failure.

            Govt I feel is happy for the unvaxxed to take the blame for the lack of freedoms as it deflects from the lack of a coherent strategy.

            Its rapidly turning into a fucking joke… the mood was firstly relief that we wernt back to level 4 then anger… Aucklands starting to simmer…

          • Craig H

            Still beats being dead or so severely stricken with disease that most of those rights are unable to be realised.

      • Maurice 3.1.2

        Almost as if it is not about "vaccination" but rather addiction to control?

        Roll me over – Jab me again!

        • Patricia Bremner

          Andre and Maurice we have had more freedoms than most all through this. Delta has been and is a different beast. Those who listen for one thing don't hear the other messages. I will be lambasted for this but really…

          We are struggling to keep the r infection rate to a safe level. It could easily spiral away as happened in Melbourne and in Singapore. So yes Lock down.

          Those asking for "Plans" are really saying "I don't like this plan so what else have you got?" because they don't want to wait for 90% of the eligible to get vaccinated. (remember that is really 75%)as 11 years down and some cannot be vaccinated yet.

          The plan is to keep a lid on this to allow time for the young to get their first have 3 weeks get their second and have 2 more weeks.

          When Delta is detected in all those suburbs of Auckland and in Hamilton, well we hunker down till our defences are in place otherwise we accept a daily death toll and high numbers of sick.

          Every country has failed unless they have used draconian measures or have natural immunity in those left or vaccinated at speed after 4 or 5 waves.

          Accusing the Health team and the Government of enjoying this is so silly it flies in the face of sane behaviour.

          Use the channels available for help if you feel that upset and angry. Some here are being patient and this means surgery delays so yes sometimes we write about hopeful warm fuzzy things. They are the teddy bears in our window to get through.

          We are anxious separated from loved ones and come here to discuss ideas and touch base. Nasty rants don’t change anything and often make things worse. Now I feel better even if you don’t.

          • Andre

            Patricia, the very obvious problem here is the glacial pace of new first vaccinations.

            This very obvious problem needs a plan to address it. Now.

            There is zero evidence that the government has any urgency in developing and implementing a plan to lift those glacially slow first vaccination rates. Instead they appear to be just finding it easier to keep indefinitely extending Auckland's lockdown, while murmuring sweet nothings about how important vaccinating is.

            By the time polls show Auckland's turn against the government for being continually shat on with ever-extending lockdowns with zero effort to bring the end closer, it will be too late. The minds and warmth and kudos for the previous good management will be lost, and will be very difficult to get back.

            I don't know for sure whether I've gone past the point of no return on that, but it certainly feels like it right now. Lefties around the country gleefully advocating inflicting yet more level 4 on Auckland, while posting apologia and justifications and encouragement for the vaccine refusers, have certainly contributed to what I'm feeling right now.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              Lefties around the country gleefully advocating inflicting yet more level 4 on Auckland, while posting apologia and justifications and encouragement for the vaccine refusers…

              Disagree with "gleefully", and particularly with "encouragement for the vaccine refusers" (as would Goudie and King), but since you feel "continuously shat on" by our government's pandemic response you should definitely shift your vote to a party (National or ACT) that more closely matches your current hopes and dreams vis-à-vis COVID.

              During this pandemic the team has enjoyed extended periods of some of the least stringent restrictions on day-to-day activities – this has likely contributed to resentment towards alert level 4/3/2 restrictions of the last 2 months.


              I try not to lose sight of the purpose of these temporary restrictions, which is to limit the freedom of COVID-19 to spread and cause illness and death.

              The COVID response remains a challenging balancing act for our govt. Some armchair critics grizzle and gripe about temporary alert level restrictions curtailing freedoms, while others object to some of the relatively strong vaccine mandates that are being put in place – each of us knows what the government should do, because we each know what's best for ourselves.

            • Patricia Bremner

              I will examine what I write carefully. I do not ever wish to rub salt in wounds.

              About Jacinda Ardern, she at some point will separate from the Advisors as she is aware of the pain. I think she instructed Hipkins and Bloomfield to come up with milestones regarding vaccination. I believe she has asked for more support for Auckland businesses from Robertson to be presented on this Friday. We will see. We get it. It's all like a slow train wreck.

              But this is rather like being on the Titanic, having the knowledge of the coming iceberg. Knowing you can't completely miss it and frantically planning implementing communicating and fighting off the loud entitled who insist we can't sink and the ball in the ballroom has to go ahead as planned or there will be panic.

              Our Titanic is Delta, and our iceberg is the number of alternative thinkers out there who are endangering themselves and threaten to wreck our systems.

              Our Doctor just this morning said 3+ Doctors are being assessed by the Medical Council for promoting alternative views and discouraging vaccination. Some areas also have poor Leadership around vaccination from Church Leaders and the Anti-Vax supporters as well. This is a lifeboat with a hole in it.

              It is really hard, keep the faith, this Government wishes to do their best for us. Thanks for your thoughtful reply, keep feeling you can express your anger.. that is a healthy reaction actually.

      • Drowsy M. Kram 3.1.3

        Just observing that the team has managed to achieve some pretty good Covid health outcomes to date – not without considerable sacrifice and suffering of course, and some will have struggled more than others.

        Child Poverty Action Group calls for more financial support to help struggling families during ongoing COVID restrictions [12 Oct. 2021]

        Going by the 'f**k count', feelings are running pretty high. So if having a go at my supposed "sense of security and other warm fuzzies" [?] helps then have at it.

        • Sabine

          Yes, some always suffer more then others, and sadly they the same that have suffered before the pandemic. And yeah, next year there will be another trickle down increase in their benefit rates that will at the same time be removed from a side benefits, but it will make us all feel so fuzzy and warm and good about our self. Trickle trickle trickle. And if it is not enough and you can't pay rent and eat, here be housed in a unsued motel somewhere with no cooking or laundry facilities. Don't you feel so warm and fuzzy now?

          But hey, i hear someone is getting married. Now that is good news.

          • Patricia Bremner

            Leave the PM's private life out of it. She is not flaunting that. Granny Herald is getting muck from Slater. Read "The Hollow Men"

        • Pete

          From the luxury of the position we are in we are free to philosophise, pontificate and ponder.

          It's as if we watched a big tsunami heading our way, wiping out lots of places on its way to get us. We got in a such a position though it didn't get us past bits around the edges.

          We say, "Thank God for that, that was close, we're been spared. Thank you for those who led us to here?"

          No. We say, "Why did you got that way, why didn't you do this instead? Why didn't you think about this, why didn't you consider that? You did this wrong, you stuffed that up. You are incompetent. We would have done it so much better." And on and on.

          Early on it was "We should be doing what Australia's doing." A week later, "We should be copying Singapore." A week on, "Why aren't we copying Sweden?"

          And we've been to Finland and Japan and back to Australia several times, or just some states of our neighbours. And to Taiwan and just about everywhere except the US.

          We had more scientific experts per capita than anywhere in the world, all qualified overnight. Fancy that, we got the real advice from the real scientists not the local internet ones.

          Tonight I see from Maori TV via the Herald: "Murupara kaumātua says he and other local Māori don't want the Pfizer vaccine and are waiting for other vaccines they think will be more effective."

          I see "Covid 19 Delta outbreak: 1000 surgeries cancelled every week."

          The tsunami didn't get us but waves like that are smashing us. Idiots like Brian Tamaki are smashing us. I don't mind them having a death wish. I don't mind the non-vaxxers worrying about the microchips carried in the vaccine or the fact that the vaccine as the lunatic American doctor claimed, will magnetise their bodies.

          I don't like the idea though that they threaten my family, my friends and me. And for the information of that mad cow American, metal won't stick to my brow because of the magnetism in the vaccine.



    • Ed 3.2

      Agreed Drowsy.
      United we stand. Divided we fall.

    • Anne 3.3

      ... personal feelings of entitlement notwithstanding – "

      That is the message coming through to me too.

      • Sabine 3.3.1

        I dont' know where anyone here lives, and i don't live in Auckland, but frankly these guys have had three month now on Home D. Maybe a bit of kindness is on order now? Just a wee bit. Specially from those that are not currently locked up at home without an end in sight.

  4. Johnr 4

    I'm just so so proud of all you posting and commenting standardistas on the restraint and decorum displayed re the news that HDPA is expecting a son. I read this blog assiduously and I thought, oh no the sarcy comments are going to flow. Indeed I thought of a few myself. Well done guys, having a child is special.

  5. Ed 5

    Interesting article in the Guardian just out.

    Especially what the experts are saying.

    Pandemic modeller for research centre Te Punaha Matatini Shaun Hendy told Stuff on Monday that “relaxation at the moment would be very dangerous”.

    Public health professor and epidemiologist Michael Baker said . “We’ve got only a small benefit coming from rising vaccine coverage, also the move into summer – I don’t think that will be enough to balance the effects of much more exponential rise,” he said. “With a [case number] doubling time of two weeks, where will that put us in that pre-Christmas period? Will we be in danger of overwhelming the health system?”


    • Andre 5.1

      What are these experts proposing to do to lift our vaccination rate?

      • weka 5.1.1

        What are you doing to help prepare NZ mentally for lots of deaths and disability?

        Pretty easy to point the finger.

        • Andre

          I've actually spent a lot of time with some vaccine hesitants getting them actual accurate information, and talking them through how routine vaccination is just a normal part of life for the large majority of the population.

          I'm pretty sure I was mostly responsible for one success, and it feels close for a second.

          But I'm utterly fucking disgusted with those that are encouraging the conditions that will contribute to that death and disability by posting apologia and encouragement for vaccine hesitancy.

          • weka

            that's great Andre, I think as many of us doing the vaccine outreach as possible is a big part of it.

        • Sabine

          Honestly that should never be asked from someone who obviously has been in lockdown now for almost 3 month. Not needed.

          We all do what we can. I don't think anyone is trying to get covid or spread it. We all try to live with it as much as we can. But we can not ask for some to be under constant home D without accepting that people will lose it. That would be downright cruel and / or foolish. We can also not demand that people stay in lockdown and watch their lifes and their lifelyhood disappear down the drain, no matter if that is a hair dresser or a restaurant or just a retail business.

          the government had 18 month now of information on how this plague works, we have seen it in China, Italy, France, Germany, USA, South America, UK, India etc. And here we are, getting a daily update on numbers and nothing else.

          No plan on how to educate our kids other then what was set up last year, which is inadequite and does not work for all – re connectivity and hardware. Need a doctor or surgery, well that is a no. Can't enter the country, can't leave the country. ETC etc etc.

          At some stage they need to serve up something better then this lukewarm warmed up re-iteration of 'be kind – to us specially, and use up your savings if you are running out of money, cause hey ……Grant likes to underspent his budgets.

          And fwiw, the whole of the North Island is struggling. Maybe the South Island is so remote taht if the north island implodes it can go chugging along – growing their own kale and milking the last few cows that are allowed, but here in the North Island Auckland is needed and Aucklanders are part of our whanau. If that is still something that we consider of worth. .

          So what are we going to do after the 90% vaccination rate? Keep the country closed until we are back to 0 cases? what if that does not happen? Seriously, this discussion needs to be had.

          • weka

            Honestly that should never be asked from someone who obviously has been in lockdown now for almost 3 month. Not needed.

            It was a rhetorical question that Andre doesn't need to answer any more than Baker and Hendy need to answer for raising vax rates.

            I agree the bigger conversation needs to be had. I've been trying to have it the whole time. Only I don't think there's a BAU to return to. Andre's stress and frustration is totally understandable. I've been there before covid, as have plenty of others. Only the limiting factors were being disabled and having a government and society that basically didn't give a shit. So my perspective on it is different. Having sometimes severe limitations on one's life isn't new to many of us.

            I also think that covid is the starter and climate/eco crises are going to hit us way harder than this. Best we get on with adaptation and mitigation of both covid and climate change. If kids can't go to school, then society can adapt to homeschool. If people are bored walking in their neighbourhood, then make the neighbourhood a great place to be. If L4 is unbearable, then let's do the mahi of changing that so that it becomes tolerable.

            No-one is talking about this because most people thing it's soon going to be over and hey presto all the businesses will be open again and NZers will vote in neoliberal governments and go back to ignoring poor and disabled people and the eco crises.

            I am very doubtful that it will be over soon. I think it's possible NZ hasn't had the hardest pandemic year yet, but that that will be 2022 as we have to learn to live with covid in the community and people dying and then how to manage long covid.

            Yes, lockdown is fucking hard. Haven't seen too many conversations on TS about the people that are going to have their lives destroyed by long covid and having to be WINZ clients. This isn't to diss people losing it under lockdown, it's to say either way was always going to be really hard. As you know it just hits people differently.

            All that shit that the hippies were talking about, we should be stepping up now. Local food, local economy, build strong communities, help each other, plant a shit load of trees, shift values and priorities. It doesn't have to be this bad.

            • weka

              and you know, you can imagine what it's like for someone in my situation to hear a centre leftie saying they're going to vote National. National who destroyed so many of our lives and who would have made covid into an utter disaster instead of the half disaster that it is now.

              • Sabine

                I posited last year at the beginning of L4 that this plague will take several years, that we will have rolling lockdowns, with all the assorted misery that living under a siege brings with it.

                I personally am not too affected by staying at home, i am not a very outgoing person (don't cope well in large settings), and i can understand how those that live with disability have more of a nuanced way of looking at lockdowns due to their own diminished reality of moving about, but we can not overlook the fact that we are the minority and that humans are social beings and like to gather. We can not overlook the fact that not everyone will cope well, and we are seeing this now.

                And yet, here we are, and it seems that some of us are quite happy to lock up AKL indefinitely if it keeps them in their supposed 'safe' bubble. Never mind that safe does not exist anymore.

                I think that the govt did pretty much everything correct with regards to containing the virus initially, i think that the wage subsidy was simply just a triage mechanism to prevent a million people at once hitting the unemployment queues, and was wasted in many cases, it would have been better to allow businesses to go bust without dragging the owners into bankruptcies, i think that our children should be first priority and that if we can’t educate them we are cutting off our noses.

                But here we are 18 month in, and we seem to not have added anything new to what we do.

                And it gets tedious, even for those that don't live in AKL. Covid is an utter disaster, even if we managed to feel very smug in our wee island far far away from everywhere for a while.

                The brother of a friend of mine killed himself last week. He hang himself in the garage, long haul Covid. He got it last year with his mum. She did fine, he did not. And in the end he killed himself because his body was slowly but surely rotting away – and there was nothing anyone could do.

                We need to have this discussion now, because the vaccination are not the great opening to life. Vaccine, permanent mask wearing, keeping social distancing, no contact business to very low contact business, rapid saliva testing, is what will be.

                In Germany kids go to school. They wear masks, and have three tests a week. Rapid saliva tests. Essentially they live by the three G's.

                Getested – get tested

                Geimpft – get jabbed

                Genessen – recover from disease

                Can we at least demand some quick delivery of rapid saliva tests from the government before someone doo doos us demanding human beings for not being grateful enough for US keeping US safe while we are locking us up in our houses with no end in sight?

                I feel that if we don't get really honest real fast, you will see that getting people to have booster shots will be even harder then getting them to get the double jabs now.

                • Molly

                  Thanks, Sabine.

                  As you often do, you have taken some of my concerns and written them down coherently.

                • Patricia Bremner

                  Sabine yes, we have to lay out the hard truths. His sad death should be noted in the effects of covid.

                  I think the Government needs to mandate vaccines to assist businesses to achieve this, also mandate mask wearing and social distancing.

                  Shopping is difficult, as is education, as we need air filtering in every public place before next year. As we learn of helpful methods they should be mandated.

                  When I was a child chewing tobacco was a thing. Spittoons were in each train carriage. That was to stop people spitting on the floor because of tuberculosis. A sign promised a ten pound fine for expectorating .

              • Patricia Bremner

                smileyyes Yes I agree Weka. I think you are so rational in the face of pain and a long wait for surgery, as are friends and our son. I feel for Andre, some situations are more triggering than others. I became a bit depressed at one stage he is angry, i think it is actually a form of grief.

                • weka

                  I agree. I think one of the most urgent things we need to be doing is teaching resiliency skills (and probably grieving). To do that we'd have to acknowledge the long term nature of the crisis and that some things have been lost.

                  Rational, maybe, born of long experience of restrictions and learning how to cope. Mindfulness has helped a lot.

                  There's an edge between compassion for people having a really hard time, and this being a political blog.

            • left for dead

              Here here.Please, folk out there stay the coarse,I'm down south but am truely grateful for all the people up north trying their best.As Peter Gabriel sings "hold the line".

      • Shanreagh 5.1.2

        Surely it is not just about the vaccination rate. I had not thought it was a 'one shot wonder' from the Govt. Ha ha sorry not funny perhapswink

        How has this been boiled down to this one thing. I know the current focus has been on vaccination. This is not the only part of the plan to open up NZ that is being worked on.

        The item that many of us have been watching in the Akl situation is the number of cases that cannot be linked. This is despite not now assigning the results to sub clusters.

        When I last looked over the weekend there was a tail of around 114? to be linked.

        With my degree in MB epidemiology to my way of thinking this signals that perhaps there are carriers. pockets, people with Delta that are still passing it on. Again with my degree in psychology I would suggest that these are unlikely to be vaccinated.

        So I don't think it is a single task and once this is done Akl opens.

        What with employers in essential industries not mandating the vaccine for their public facing employees ie border crossing truckies are still allowed despite no vaccination and we now have a rest home in Remuera with a single vaccinated person with Covid. If this is a worker then both employer/ee have left it very late to get started on the vaccination process. How can an employer be happy with a worker with only one part of a two part vaccination working?

        A missing part of the equation should also be an expectation that employers will do their bit. I am not getting this feeling that this is happening widely though with MSM who knows?

        I have friends in Auckland and they have said that the single thing that has kept them going is the 40 min walk they do every single day. If they need it they do another walk. They start each day with a to do list. One works from home. They have taken advantage of the picnic idea to catch up with another bubble. Not really their thing they say but it is the only one on offer.

        Is there a person you can talk to. It is not unusual to be feeling these things but perhaps better to not suffer in silence of there is a trained person you can talk to? The last two paras are written with kindness. smiley.

    • Ed 5.2

      More health experts have shared their thoughts.

      Te Rōpū Whakakaupapa Urutā (National Maori Pandemic Group) co-leader Dr Rawiri Jansen said

      The case numbers should give everybody pause. They are, either frankly, sobering or scary. The region would have to stay at alert level 4 for weeks. This is so hard. I get that it's hard. But honestly, we're facing a this-is hard’ or this is deaths. That's just such a difficult thing.”

      Immunologist and Associate Dean (Pacific) at the University of Otago (Wellington)Dr Dianne Sika-Paotonu

      We desperately need to buy more time to drive vaccination rates up even further as quickly as possible, and to give more time for our hospitals to be ready for what’s coming.

      Dr Dion O’Neale, principal investigator at Te Pūnaha Matatini, said

      it doesn’t look like we’re on a trajectory we want to be on


  6. Ed 6

    To change the subject to another very important matter, has anyone seen that Stuff have started a detailed investigation into the biodiversity crisis in New Zealand and the world? Has anyone seen it?

    The first episode looks at seabirds. Looks like some excellent work by Andrea Vance and Iain McGregor.

    From the article, some startling facts :
    1. We are ranked 89th in the world for conversion of natural habitat.
    2. In New Zealand, there are more than 4000 indigenous species at risk.
    3. We are ranked 13th in the world for the use of fertiliser.
    4. We are ranked the worst in the world, for the proportion of threatened species we have.

    It will make you consider whether you should be eating tuna.

    If I have time, I'll put a more detailed report tomorrow.



  7. Herodotus 7

    Our treatment of the NZ environment; flora and fauna is IMO worse than how we deal with CO2, and in my disappointment feel bad giving TG a vote. There is no international distain to be expressed and embarrass our govt into action. Any pressure on the govt is by a small group of kiwis with their efforts going unseen in restoring parts on NZ to its former glory.

    This has some short comings yet still worth the time to watch, especially under the current conditions that covid lockdown has allowed. It is currently available on Netflix, and I know of a few families that now will not eat fish.


    • weka 7.1

      Less Green MPs and it would be worse.

      • Herodotus 7.1.1

        The environment is my nice place, given the rant above. Last year I considered not voting as all the options IMO were crap. The only reason was my base line the environment. 67% of the voting family voted Green. Next election it appears it will be 33%.

        Global warming has the entire world working to pressure leaders in saving it, NZ has only kiwis to pressure our leaders, and that is why IMO NZ needs all effort in save our flora and fauna and TG need to be leading this, instead of saving the world.

        • weston

          Wouldnt it be logical to solve the biggest problems first herodotus ?ie climate change and the threat that poses to all species /? If you are one of the people who thought James Shaw shoudnt go to COPs cause flying is bad then were off to a great start arnt we ! My own personal opinion based on observation of fanatics is that bird watching turns some peoples brains to mush !

          • Herodotus

            To assist in climate change there are some who have purchased large areas of land and are planting it with pine to capture the co2. How does that help to protect and enhance our unique wildlife and their habitats ? By protecting the habitats we are assisting by allowing nzers to see 1st hand the direct benefits eg native bush/forests/coastal areas and secondary doing our bit to rebalance the gases in the atmosphere.

            my summary what many sequent co2 short term can have detrimental adverse effects elsewhere, a rubrics cube scenario.
            And weka love your devotion to the party keep it up even though I may disagree

        • weka

          I honestly don't get this. If we get another Labour majority and less or no Green MPs, do you think that we will see more action on biodiversity or less?

    • Ed 7.2

      Thanks for the recommendation. I shall watch this film this weekend.

      May I recommend another film about the unsustainable economy we operate in New Zealand. The film is coming out at the time of the film festival.


      Milked exposes the whitewash of New Zealand’s multi-billion-dollar dairy industry.

  8. Cricklewood 8

    Its about time some hard questions get asked tbh… we've had alot of time to prepare for this point in our resposne yet govt still hasnt got rapid testing organized, salivia testing is a mess and the vax passport other countries started and finished with it we'restill flailing about developing it.. surely we should have had businesses like hairdressers open by now with a vax passport instead its kicked down the road another two weeks. People are pretty pissed.

    • SPC 8.1

      They have made moves to import the rapid testing for workplaces – it should up and going by the end of the month or early November.

      This would have informed their thinking on holding at Level 3 lite till then.

      • Cricklewood 8.1.1

        Thats my issue we're still mucking about try to organize this stuff and seeminly doing it on the fly

        We've had plenty of time to watch what other countries have done well, got to work and had alot of this stuff ready to roll when the inevitable happened.

        Auckland should have had a functioning vax passport system 2-3 weeks ago when we went to level 3.9 so small businesses like hairdressers for example could open… its really disheartening because so many people are going to the wall with this lockdown… and they're the little guys hospo staff, retail staff, hairdressers small business manicure shops those little chinese massage places in the malls etc etc wage subsidy doesnt touch the sides in Auckland. Company I work for burnt through 150k during level 4 keeping everyone at 80 percent and covering all the fixed outgoings we can operate at almost breakeven in level 3 which means at least we all have jobs… which makes us lucky.

        • SPC

          Their plan has been

          1. internal elimination (PCR testing and contact tracing and wastewater testing) and border bubble (maybe with Oz at some point) – Level 1 economy
          2. vaccination, then open up and use rapid testing at workplaces/schools etc and "passports".

          Sure if they had planned for a delta outbreak they could not eliminate – then they might have had easier saliva testing and also rapid testing in place to help manage it, and also vax ID for use at Level 3 lite.

          As it is, this got going in recent weeks as they realised elimination might fail or would require another month at Level 4. Those businesses in Auckland that got Level 3 and Level 3 lite benefited from that decision.

    • weka 8.2

      surely we should have had businesses like hairdressers open by now with a vax passport instead its kicked down the road another two weeks

      In Auckland?

      • Cricklewood 8.2.1

        Yes in Auckland, it's getting financially very ugly for alot of people especially in the service industry. Think hairdressers, the nail salons, massage all sorts of little businesses really. Having a passport ready would have allowed them to at least start making some income.

        • weka

          people can still transmit covid when fully vaxxed, although the risk is much lower*. Are you saying that Auckland should abandon containment and come out of L3+?

          One of the big risks we are about to face is if people think double vax makes other measures unnecessary.

          *in reality, I don't think we know yet what the risk is. I really wish we would be more honest about this.


          • Cricklewood

            Auckland couldnstill be ring fenced all im saying is if we had some tools ready like vaccine passports and rapid tests more businesses in Auckland could open which would act as a pressure release valve.

            We cant stay in an endless level 3.9 lockdown cycle there are other massive costs besides the obvious financial ones, on a personal level my daughter is really starting to struggle with the social isolation now, one of her friends has become completely withdrawn and tbh online school is pretty grim.

            The govt just seems so unprepared and we've had time to be ready to deal with this stuff.

            • weka

              the point of L3+ is to get as many people vaxxed as possible while at the same time trying to contain and limit spread of covid as much as possible. No-one is suggesting that it be endless (although I'm sure it feels like that).

              I can't see how hairdressers and massage therapists could operate currently while trying to limit spread.

              Afaik the government has plans for both rapid testing and vax passports.

              • Cricklewood

                Yes I know they have 'plans' I think they should be already devloped and in use…

                If we did that for fully vaxed people it will perhaps encourage a few more accross the line to access said freedoms and it might well actually help level 3.9 hold.

                It gets busier everyday here, Mt Eden was packed sunday morning with people getting coffee etc chatting on the footpath sitting at tables that have reappeared on the footpaths… basically the longer this goes on the more disobedient people will get and that's going to lead to worse outcomes.

          • Maurice

            Vaxing is in fact irrelevant the determining factor is does a person have transmissible infection or not. The present testing system only tells us the status 15 hours to three days ago – nothing prevents infectious viral loading after test and before result.

            This is where rapid testing of high reliability is so needed – the viral loading status NOW is known right on the spot. This even negates the 'Vax Passprot' … which only shows probable less susceptibility to personal health effects NOT infection and Transmissibility.

            I would rather KNOW that infection was not present rather than if someone (or myself) had been jabbed – probably some considerable time ago.

    • Craig H 8.3

      As long as we have a Privacy Act and people who will be quite annoyed about data breaches, developing a vax passport app based on realtime connection to the Covid-19 register is going to be slow going no matter who does it. Also, if we are going to mandate denial of service/entry based on this app, best make sure it's accurate.

      As pointed out by the DG and others, rapid antigen testing is not nearly as accurate as other testing, so was actively unhelpful while we could reasonably test and deliver results at pace. Useful in an outbreak, not much use otherwise. Saliva testing uses the same lab infrastructure as nasal swabs, so the main improvement is comfort (and in earlier days, a loss of accuracy), not anything else (that's a worthy improvement, but it's not like it's a serious difference in terms of the Covid response).

      Most of the issues are simply that we thought we had the time to pick out the best parts of Covid responses elsewhere, and then Delta arrived early.

  9. Aj 9

    I'm waiting for Federated Farmers to step up and ask all their members to get vaccinated.

  10. SPC 10

    It's notable that when elimination resulted in Level 1 freedom, lock downs to get this result were well supported.

    But when lock downs are only to hold down the rate of spread, as originally intended last year to keep the health system safe, they begin to seem onerous to "freedom". Which might explain the USA and UK opposition to lock downs because of some "flu". And in those places that opposition to any "pandemic regime" has extended to opposition to vaccination itself and also to vaccination "passports".

    The current Auckland lock down has been shorter than in Sydney – and Melbourne has had the longest total period of lock downs in the world.

    It retrospect we were lucky to arrive at elimination, because the society division that would have occurred (racial disharmony and inequality exacerbated – working class deaths) would have been terrible.

    We'll only get a taste of that in the year ahead with greater freedoms and more deaths – including among the vaccinated.

  11. Adrian 11

    Just watch Melbourne, the rate in two weeks will be stratospheric. Do you want that here?

  12. weston 12

    Wouldnt it be logical to solve the biggest problems first herodotus ?ie climate change and the threat that poses to all species /? If you are one of the people who thought James Shaw shoudnt go to COPs cause flying is bad then were off to a great start arnt we ! My own personal opinion based on observation of fanatics is that bird watching turns some peoples brains to mush !

    • Ad 13.1

      Time for the unvaccianted to get criminal nuisance charges.

      • Cricklewood 13.1.1

        Going to charge everyone under 12 as well?

        • Ad

          Minors aren't generally charged in our justice system.

          It'll be full vaccine for 5-and-up very soon.

          • Cricklewood

            Possibly, I do hope they start talking about actual benefits in terms of outcome compared to actually catching covid in that age cohort… so far its just it triggers a good immune response… if there isnt a demonstable drop in hospitalisation/serious outcomes why give it?

          • SPC

            Males 12-15 and those 5-12 are not advantaged by vaccination – but presumably the rest of us are (because of break through infections in older people).

            • Cricklewood

              Yeah I struggle with that reasoning in terms of giving a vacc to that younger age cohort I read a stuff article saying similar, to me thats not a good enough reason personally better be ready to go with booster shots for those that need them which based on our rollout will be fairly soon.

              • SPC

                Yup esp some of the old and health compromised vaxxed pre June 30 prior to the Dec/Jan family gathering times.

            • KJT

              Youngsters are pretty "disadvantaged" if their parents or grandparents die of covid.

              And. If Covid is still around as they get older, which seems likely. Immunity is advantageous.

      • SPC 13.1.2

        Any precedent, apart from being Japanese in America after Pearl Harbour or Moslem after 9/11? After all this is paranoia that others are not in the same team right?

    • SPC 13.2

      We'll need 500 ICU like beds (not 250 + 100 staffed by surgical nurses under supervision – surgical nurses being spare because of reduced surgeries).

      Which means getting in vaxxed migrant ICU pandemic experienced nurses – and place them here via airbnb.

      We have over 3.5M vaccinated people and 1% of them might need hospitalisation if infected (and by the end of 2022 a lot will have been) and 500,000 unvaxxed (going down to 400,000) of whom 10% might need hospitalisation (which is not ICU care).

      While a lot of the hospitalisations will not need ICU care, just monitoring and treatments it will be tight at 500 for mine.

      We're lucky there will be the Merck anti-viral treatment for the vaxxed and unvaxxed alike and the monoclonal antibody treatment for the unvaxxed used in the USA.

      What the government should also do is bring in the Astra Zeneca Cov2 anti-body cocktail – this is effective prior to and post infection as an alternative to vaccination. This should reduce the risk on the health system.

      • garibaldi 13.2.1

        Well that's great but I need my nails cut and my hair styled now, not in 2 or 3 or who knows how many weeks. This whole thing is a shambles! Signed…..Judith.

  13. chris T 14

    ..Too much info

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