Daily review 29/09/2021

Written By: - Date published: 5:30 pm, September 29th, 2021 - 28 comments
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28 comments on “Daily review 29/09/2021 ”

  • Comments are now closed

    • alwyn 1.1
      29 September 2021 at 6:08 pm

      I have always regarded politicians families, not themselves involved in politics, as being exempt from public criticism.

      At what point do such people become fair targets of criticism? A comment from a moderator would be appreciated?

      • weka 1.1.1
        29 September 2021 at 6:23 pm

        stick to the facts and be prepared to back them up sooner rather than later, don't post anything potentially defamatory. If you just want to say someone is a dick, don't bother. If you have a political point to make, have at it.

        • weka 1.1.1.1
          29 September 2021 at 6:24 pm

          Gayford is obviously a public figure in his own right. More care is needed with children etc of public figures.

          • alwyn 1.1.1.1.1
            29 September 2021 at 6:31 pm

            Thank you for your response. I shall keep it in mind if he says something I strongly disagree with.

      • bwaghorn 1.1.2
        29 September 2021 at 8:39 pm

        If you step into the ring dont winge if you take a few punches I guess, problem is the nats dont go by queensberry rules

        • Patricia Bremner 1.1.2.1
          30 September 2021 at 7:28 am

          "Play by Queensbury Rules" No they do not!! bwaghorn.

          The Police had to step in when untrue rumours of a nasty sort were spreading in their gnat nasty DP crowd about the PM's fiance almost as soon as she took office.

          "There are no matters for him to answer, and no matters of concern."

          The National Party has under John Key developed a group of people who were happy to pass cruel often untrue stories about. Over time they have been exposed.

          So the public find outright untruths again in John Key's assertions about Pfizer and Pfzer's rebuttal no surprise. Alwyn you can not deny the facts.

  2. Kat 2
    29 September 2021 at 5:48 pm

    National/Act leaders show us why they are in, and will stay in, opposition.

  3. Adrian 3
    29 September 2021 at 6:18 pm

    Collins the Idiot, bringing in nurses in time for the Christmas Covid rush. My wife trains immigrant nurses, it takes months to bring an offshore nurse up to NZ standards and thats if their English competency is top class, even Kiwi returning nurses need refresher courses to reacquaint themselves to what is required. Who the fuck is advising these dickheads? It was noticeable on 3news just now that the 3 Stooges, Bishop, Collins and Reti struggled to coherently answer any questions.

    • alwyn 3.1
      29 September 2021 at 6:37 pm

      Can you provide a link to this claim you seem to imply has been made by Collins?

      There is certainly nothing in that Parliamentary question relating to such an idea?

      • Incognito 3.1.1
        29 September 2021 at 7:15 pm

        You haven’t read National’s plan yet???

        It is Step 10 of their Master Plan.

        Read and weep.

        • alwyn 3.1.1.1
          29 September 2021 at 8:37 pm

          Well, like Gypsy just below this comment I cannot see any reference to having it done by Christmas.

          However you appear too be following along with Adrian here and I'm sure you will produce the words from Judith that promise it would be done by Christmas if she was in charge. Come on, it must be very easy for you if it is there. Or perhaps you will admit that you are wrong. Saying sorry is very easy to do when you have screwed up you know. Just try it.

          I personally don't think that the problems with the Health system can be fixed that fast. With the current lot in charge we have had just under four long years of neglect between October 2017 and today.

          • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1.1
            29 September 2021 at 8:44 pm

            "National's plan means Kiwis overseas could come home to spend this Christmas with loved ones," said Collins.

            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/covid-19-national-s-home-by-christmans-plan-a-tantalising-prospect-for-tens-of-thousands-stranded-offshore.html

            “This would allow Kiwis to come home for Christmas – or leave the country for the New Year,” Collins said.

            https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300418397/covid19-nz-national-proposes-opening-up-travel-at-85-per-cent-vaccinated-labour-say-it-would-result-in-covid-for-christmas

            "We believe if they follow our plan, New Zealanders will be able to get home by Christmas and that is really important," Collins said.

            https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-delta-outbreak-kiwis-abroad-home-for-christmas-under-nationals-plan-judith-collins/WV5XOBQ3VLZ4EI7Y6RPMF4Y7UY/

            This is Collins saying borders will open by Christmas. The inevitable surge in cases and hospital admissions in the weeks following will require increased ICU capacity to deal with impending death.

            National’s plan might look polished but it is full of holes.

            • Gypsy 3.1.1.1.1.1
              30 September 2021 at 11:17 am

              Thanks Muttonbird.

              In the 'Reopening to the World' section of the plan, it is clear that anyone coming in to the country not required to quarantine has to be fully vaccinated, have a negative pre-departure test, an arrival test and then a further test 12 hours after arrival.

              The numbers are bit ropey, but lets say 5% of vaccinated people get Delta, and of those around 2% require hospitalisation. That's about 0.01% of the total numbers entering the country requiring hospitalisation. If those numbers are correct, if 30,000 people come into the country by Christmas (highly unlikely) we'd only need 3 more ICU beds. Even if the infection rate and case hospitalisation rates are considerably higher, the ICU numbers are small.

              • Incognito …
                30 September 2021 at 1:20 pm

                And with that one innocuous comment, you show that you don’t know and don’t understand anything about the epidemiology of infectious diseases such as Covid-19. You fail to understand that travellers who are positive and infectious can start a huge outbreak, which could lead to large numbers of people getting infected, large numbers of people needing hospitalisation, large numbers of people requiring ICU, and large numbers of people dying. Just one positive traveller can be enough as the modelling by Te Pūnaha Matatini has shown so clearly. Your wilful ignorance and refusal to educate yourself is starting to grate.

                • Gypsy …
                  30 September 2021 at 2:24 pm

                  "You fail to understand that travellers who are positive and infectious can start a huge outbrea"

                  What are the chances of someone who has been fully vaccinated, have a negative pre-departure test, a negative arrival test and then a further negative test 12 hours after arrival being infectious and starting a huge outbreak? Do you have that information?

                  I’m also interested in what numbers you have for hosptilasations within a population with a high vaccination rate.

                  • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                    30 September 2021 at 3:14 pm

                    Just takes one. We have had people who tested positive after their 14 days and the 2 or tests come up negative.

                    as for data on hospitalisations and vaccination

                    UK this week has 246,000 new cases in last 7 days and 5173 hospitalisations in last 7 days. Those that are fairly unwell could still be under observation at home.
                    To scale for our smaller population divide by 13.5

                    • Gypsy …
                      30 September 2021 at 3:17 pm

                      How many of the UK cases were vaccinated?

                      That hospitalisation rate is around 2%, which matches my numbers above.

                    • Ghostwhowalksnz …
                      30 September 2021 at 5:27 pm

                      We have smaller number of hospital beds per head than UK.

                      I dont think we could cope with 3000-3500 new hospitalisations per week, as Covid requires longer stays as well even if not in ICU

                    • Gypsy …
                      30 September 2021 at 5:34 pm

                      5173/13.5 = 380 hospitalisations per week? And that's based on 18,000 cases per week. The UK are pretty much 'open all hours', based on watching the football etc, I think (hope) we're a long way from abandoning elimination to that extent.

                      I agree our ICU capacity is an issue, but without the extra nurses, we can't build that capacity.

                  • Incognito …
                    30 September 2021 at 9:26 pm

                    Nobody has that kind of information, which is why we use model simulations with a seed number of one per day coming through the border with strict controls as per the Te Pūnaha Matatini study. You seem to think that all ICU resources in NZ are sitting idle waiting for the Covid-19 outbreak that will never happen according to you and some other great ‘thinkers’.

            • alwyn 3.1.1.1.1.2
              30 September 2021 at 2:44 pm

              The claim that Adrian said Collins was making was that "Collins the Idiot, bringing in nurses in time for the Christmas Covid rush".

              Neither he, nor you, nor anyone else here has produced any evidence that she made any such claim.

              • Incognito …
                30 September 2021 at 9:32 pm

                You know exactly what Collins did claim so stop playing your usual tedious and silly games. ICU capacity won’t be beefed up by Christmas yet Collins wants thousands of travellers to come in anyway. Death is just an inconvenient fact of life, according to Collins. Any deaths will be on the Government anyway, if Collins has her way. On paper, at least, she’s sacrificing human lives for political advantage.

          • Incognito 3.1.1.1.2
            29 September 2021 at 9:41 pm

            I’m terribly sorry but National has not provided any timelines or deadlines for their noble actions in the actual document except for backward looking statements criticising the Government’s handling, just as you’re doing here – how original. It all sounds very aspirational and it appears that they want to put the cart before the horse and let innocent people pay with their lives for this political stunt.

            As Muttonbird kindly explained to you below, “National’s plan might look polished but it is full of holes.”

    • Gypsy 3.2
      29 September 2021 at 7:49 pm

      Like you, I have family who are nurses, so I looked up the plan.

      The relevant section is Step 10 of Pillar 1, which is:

      Step 10: Prepare our hospitals and expand ICU capacity

      The first bullet point reads:

      "Urgently implement a specialist healthcare workforce migration plan."

      I can't see any mention of Christmas as a deadline for actually having nurses arriving and going straight into work.

      • Incognito 3.2.1
        29 September 2021 at 9:41 pm

        I can't see any mention of Christmas as a deadline for actually having nurses arriving and going straight into work.

        Well done, you have found just one of many issues and gaps with National’s PR exercise Covid-19 plan. I refer you to Muttonbird’s excellent summary.

  4. Stuart Munro 4
    29 September 2021 at 8:02 pm

    Japan's new leader looks refreshingly sane – if our opposition took their cues from folk like this, they might not be universally loathed and execrated.

  5. Kat 5
    30 September 2021 at 3:16 pm

    Collins asked on RNZ about how she plans to get 30,000 people returning in by Christmas.

    Collins suggests nurses get paid more and release more that want to work here.

    Question and answer starts at 7:57

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018814418

    I guess it could be argued Collins didn't say which Christmas.

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