Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
(the deserving poor and the undeserving poor)
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context.
a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
There is a difference between the person and what they did.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
Webb said the family arrived into New Zealand from Brisbane on 21 July, with the funeral of the children's father due to take place today.
"Upon arrival they requested an exemption to spend time with a family member and a recently deceased close relative, and attend the funeral. This request was declined as the health risk was deemed too high at that point in time, noting they had not yet conducted a day 3 test.
Webb said the family tested negative for Covid-19 after the results from their first test came back mid to late afternoon yesterday.
"At 6.15pm last night the family were contacted by my team and were advised we were actively considering their application, and doing everything we could to support it. They were made aware that the application process was looking positive, and that they would be given a decision by 8pm last night."
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family.
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
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Hi,Webworm can report that various health professionals involved in gender affirming care in New Zealand have received a threatening legal letter from Wellington law firm Franks Ogilvie.The law firm who sent the letter.The letter was sent on behalf of Inflection Point NZ, an anti-trans lobby group that boasts speakers including ...
Ryman Healthcare last year abandoned plans for a ‘boutique retirement village’ and sold this central Wellington site, after demolishing the former factory (seen here) and leaving it to sit vacant for 14 years. Now it has announced it will slash its building rate and look to dump more of its ...
Yesterday we covered a big part of a recent speech by Minister of Housing and Transport Chris Bishop. One aspect we didn’t cover was about the City Rail Link and his announcement of $200 million towards the removal of level crossings. On the CRL he notes: I’ve been down to ...
Long story short, I interviewed Reserve Bank of New ZealandChief Economist Paul Conway yesterday in the full video above about:the Monetary Policy Committee’s decision to cut the Official Cash Rate by 50 basis points to 3.75% last week;the bank’s projection in its Monetary Policy Statement (MPS) for three more ...
Stay where you areYou're not going, just leavingI will sit around, let everybody talkAnd they will say what they knowThey will end up believingI will sit around, let everybody talkAndrew by Fur Patrol.Subscribe to Nick's Kōrero and save 20%Around lunchtime yesterday, I started seeing notifications about Andrew Bayly’s resignation. To ...
Hi,Something interesting has happened in Aotearoa, where one of the country’s most toxic Christian churches has pushed things too far, and properly fucked New Zealand off.As I wrote last week, members of Destiny church protested a Pride event in a library, pushing and punching their way inside.Destiny has always been ...
Allegedly, the defence environment has changed, and New Zealand thus needs to spend significantly more on Defence. The rationale is that China (our main trading partner) has been raising its profile in the Pacific, a region hitherto seen to be our own backyard, and an American lake. The cheek of ...
Germans went to the polls today, in what looks to be their most important election since 1945. The good news is that they seem to have kept the fascists out, with the Putin/Trump/Musk-backed Alternative für Deutschland coming second and effectively excluded from power. Instead, it looks like a Christian Democrat ...
I relaxed myself into the dentist chair first thing this morning. I was back for a quick second filling that couldn’t be done on the last visit because it had to go alongside the one he’d just done.I like the dentist, Geoff, very much. You may recall me mentioning the ...
The Way We Were - And Hoped To Remain: The iconic photograph of Prime Minister Norman Kirk holding the hand of a little Māori boy at Waitangi on 6 February 1973 held out the promise of a future founded upon the uncomplicated and uncontested acceptance of racial equality.WAITANGI DAY commentary ...
Over the weekend, David Seymour announced the government’s plans to “overhaul” the Overseas Investment Act.The Act looks after overseas investments in sensitive assets in New Zealand. Its main purpose is balancing foreign money in our sensitive assets/lands/fisheries/forestries with the risks associated with that.This includes considering New Zealand’s national and economic ...
Last month, David Seymour’s press release on school lunches said:“The [school lunch] programme was reformed to deliver the same outcomes while costing taxpayers less. This was achieved by embracing commercial expertise, using government buying power, and generating supply chain efficiencies…”And while that all sounded fair, the end result is - ...
Here are some thoughts about the hysteria surrounding a Chinese Peoples Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) flotilla conducting freedom of navigation exercises in the Tasman Sea, including live fire drills. 1) The flotilla has been tracked for over a week by New Zealand and Australian forces. The tracking began when the ...
Insurance premia are already sky high, especially in Wellington and other places deemed high risk, and now another cost of living shock is set to be delivered by a Government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things that stood out to me in our political ...
On Friday, Chris Bishop, the Minister of Housing, Transport, Infrastructure and RMA Reform, gave an absolutely fantastic speech to the Committee for Auckland. As a starter, he really sums up well why we need better cities with this line. I make no apologies for being an urbanist. Well-functioning urban environments ...
You can be amazingYou can turn a phrase into a weapon or a drugYou can be the outcastOr be the backlash of somebody's lack of loveOr you can start speaking upNothing's gonna hurt you the way that words doWhen they settle 'neath your skinKept on the inside and no sunlightSometimes, ...
The Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, Simon Upton, wagged a metaphorical finger at the National Party on Saturday, and RMA Minister Chris Bishop wagged straight back. A former National Party Environment Minister, Upton was a keynote speaker at the party’s Blue Greens Forum in Methven. His speech went right to ...
A listing of 33 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, February 16, 2025 thru Sat, February 22, 2025. This week's roundup is again published soleley by category. We are still interested in feedback to hone the categorization, so if ...
Several years ago, as an intellectual exercise, I had the fun of ranking the worst Emperors of the Western Roman Empire (https://phuulishfellow.wordpress.com/2020/09/04/the-five-worst-western-roman-emperors/). I even followed it up with a look at Honorius historiography. But there was still a missing piece of the puzzle. I was limiting myself to Emperors from ...
Prof Jane Kelsey examines what the ACT party and the NZ Initiative are up to as they seek to impose on the country their hardline, right wing, neoliberal ideology. A progressive government elected in 2026 would have a huge job putting Humpty Dumpty together again and rebuilding a state that ...
Kia Ora,I was reading about the history New Zealand Timekeeping and I think I may have identified a factual error on this page from 2006:Page 1. Time past - Te Ara: The Encyclopedia of New Zealand[The rest of the Te Ara article is included for substack readers]In Europe other markers ...
None of the official measures of child poverty improved in the year to June, 2024. Photo: Lynn GrievesonLong stories short, the top six things that stood out to me in our political economy around housing, climate and poverty in the week to Sunday, February 23 were:Stats NZreported on Thursday ...
1/ Join community / common cause organisations Find organisations you resonate with. Join them and/or donate. In the fight against the state, it’s critical we pool together in all cases. If you don’t have the financial resources, sign up for information & updates. Knowledge is power. These groups, and the ...
Long story short: Aotearoa-NZ now has to make some difficult and probably expensive decisions about how we work and trade with China and the United States, our two largest trading partners. That’s because Donald Trump just overturned 80 years of certainty about how the US deals with and protects the ...
People killin', people dyin'Children hurt, and you hear them cryin'Can you practice what you preach?And would you turn the other cheek?Father, father, father, help usSend some guidance from above'Cause people got me, got me questioningWhere is the love?Songwriters: will.i.am, Justin Timberlake, Taboo, apl.de.ap, Printz Board, Michael Fratantuno, George Pajon, Jr.Where ...
A Bully in a China Shop?It is a mystery what Donald Trump learned when he did his BA in economics at the University of Pennsylvania in the mid-1960s. The Ivy League college has a good economics reputation, but even had Trump been a top student – unlikely or he would ...
The conflict we can see echoing across the world is being imported directly into New Zealand by outside powers and monetary influences that we don't want in our politics. It makes our politics messy and confusing, but untangling the puppet strings can help make sense of how we got here.This ...
Questions1. The poem that offers the immortal words The boy stood on the burning deck is about what?a. Eskimo Nell’s younger brotherb. The Reichstag firec. One of Napoleon’s shipsd. Christopher Luxon’s first year as Prime Minister2. What happens to the boy in the poem?a. Goes on an absolute bender in ...
I decided not to bother listening to the Reserve Bank’s appearance at FEC yesterday morning. After all, the OCR decision had been much as expected and foreshadowed, the forecast tracks etc hadn’t changed much, and – with all due respect to some new FEC members – how searching was any ...
Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when publishedQuote of the day:Text within this block will maintain its original spacing when published“Our primary duty, I believe, is to maintain our water, our lakes, our rivers in a form in nature that supports life, ecosystems, communities, and, indeed, it ...
NZ’s peaceful and historic Hikoi for Maori rights and bottom, London police arrest environmental protestorsPeaceful protesters around the world are being jailed for years for nothing more than turning up or planning a protestAusralian climate change protesters To continue to receive posts like this, consider becoming a free or paid ...
And mama said mmmmh, mmmmhWhy don't the newscasters cryWhen they read about people who dieAt least they could be decent enoughTo put just a tear in their eyesAnd mama saidIt's just make-believeYou can't believe everything you seeSo baby, close your eyes to the lullabiesOn the news tonightSongwriters: Jack Hody Johnson.The ...
Hi,With the United States of America currently going down in a giant ball of flames like the Hindenburg disaster, it seemed like a good idea to get on a blimp. That line is basically meaningless, but it sounded good in my head so I went with it as an opener. ...
(My apologies. The version sent earlier this morning had the audio of last week’s podcast attached. It was good, but not that good. I have now updated with this week’s podcast. This is my error and please accept my apologies.)The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers ...
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with regular and special guests, including:, Helen Clark and on the week in geopolitics, including Donald Trump’s wrecking of the post-WW II politicial landscape; and, ...
Open access notables Long-lasting intense cut-off lows to become more frequent in the Northern Hemisphere, Mishra et al., Communications Earth & Environment:Cut-off Lows are slow-moving mid-latitude storms that are detached from the main westerly flow and are often harbingers of heavy and persistent rainfall. The assessment of Cut-off Lows ...
On Tuesday, the "Independent" Police Conduct Authority issued an extraordinary report, proposing a complete rewrite of protest law to enable the police to restrict public protests and ban them at a whim. While packaged with several complaints in an appendix, the focus of the "thematic review" was clearly the provision ...
Data released today by Statistics New Zealand showed the urgent problem facing Aotearoa New Zealand in tackling child poverty, said NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi Economist Craig Renney. “Child poverty is estimated by Stats NZ on three measures – before housing costs, after housing costs, and material poverty. All three central ...
It is almost never an (unconditionally) good thing if an official policy interest rate (in our case the OCR) is being adjusted in large bites, whether that is (for example) 175 basis points of cuts in the last six months or 375 basis points of increases in just twelve months ...
Here are your morning catch ups in health, workplace, environment and politics.And then later, amust read critical piece from No Right Turn on the government’s attempt to expand police powers follows. ENVIRONMENTNew Zealand's glaciers have shrunk by 29% since 2000: The grim news - published in scientific journal Nature ...
And when we first came hereWe were cold, and we were clearWith no colours in our skinUntil we let the spectrum inSay my nameAnd every colour illuminatesWe are shiningAnd we will never be afraid againSongwriters: Florence Leontine Mary Welch / Paul Epworth.“What did Gerry say?”To be honest, with multiple people ...
Long story short, I spoke to Core Logic Head of Research Nick Goodall & Real Estate Institute of New Zealand (REINZ) CEO Jen Baird for a 15 minute mini-Hoon last night after the Reserve Bank of New Zealandannounced it had cut the Official Cash Rate 50 bps to 3.75% ...
There is a widening fear in Wellington that the Cook Islands – China deal is in danger of becoming a foreign policy crisis. Foreign Minister Winston Peters yesterday delivered a blunt assessment of the situation saying that New Zealand wanted to reset and restate the formal parameters of the relationship ...
Good to see that this year, the New Zealand film societies are celebrating what would have been Sam Peckinpah’s 100th birthday with what they are calling “Peckinpah’s West” – a tribute consisting of screenings of The Wild Bunch and Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid. That’s where the good part ...
Tomorrow afternoon, if things go really really badly, I may find myself down to one eye. People who used to sneer at me on Twitter will no doubt say So what's changed? Nothing, that's what, you one-eyed lefty.I don’t mean to be dramatic, it’s just a routine bit of cataract ...
A few weeks ago an invitation dropped into my email inbox to attend a joint Treasury/Motu seminar on recent, rather major, changes that had apparently been made to the discount rates used by The Treasury to evaluate proposals from government agencies. It was all news to me, but when ...
All your life is Time magazineI read it tooWhat does it mean?PressureI'm sure you'll have some cosmic rationaleBut here you are with your faithAnd your Peter Pan adviceYou have no scars on your faceAnd you cannot handle pressureSongwriter: Billy Joel.Christopher Luxon is under pressure from all sides. The reviews are ...
After seeing yet-more-months of political debate and policy decisions to ‘go for growth’ by pulling the same old cheap migration and cheap tourism levers without nearly-enough infrastructure, or any attempt to address the same old lack of globally conventional tax incentives for investment, I thought it would be worth issuing ...
The plans for the buildings that will replace the downtown carpark have been publicly notified giving us the first detailed glance at what is proposed for one of the biggest and best development sites in the city centre. The council agreed to sell the site to Precinct Properties for $122 ...
With the Reserve Bank expected today to return the Official Cash Rate to where it was in mid-2022 comes a measure of how much of a psychological impact the rate has. Federated Farmers has published its latest six-monthly farm confidence survey, which shows that profit expectations have fallen and risen ...
Kiwis Disallowed From Waiting Lists Based on Arbitrary MeasuresWellington hospital are now rejecting patients from specialist waiting lists due to BMI (body mass index).This article from Rachel Thomas for The Post says it all (emphasis mine):A group of Porirua GPs are sounding alarm bells after patients with body mass indexes ...
The Prime Minister says he's really comfortable with us not knowing the reoffending rate for his boot camp programme.They asked him for it at yesterday’s press conference, and he said, nah, not telling, have to respect people's privacy.Okay I'll bite. Let's say they release this information to us:The rate of ...
Warning 1: There is a Nazi theme at the end of this article related to the disabled community. Warning 2: This article could be boring!One day, last year, I excitedly opened up a Substack post that was about how to fight back, and the answer at the end was disappointing ...
This may be rhetorical but here goes: did any of you invest in the $Libra memecoin endorsed and backed by Argentine president and darling of the global Right Javier Milei (who admitted to being paid a fee for his promotion of the token)? You know, the one that soared above ...
Last week various of the great and good of New Zealand economics and public policy trooped off to Hamilton (of all places) for the annual Waikato Economics Forum, one of the successful marketing drives of university’s Vice-Chancellor. My interest was in the speeches delivered by the Minister of Finance and ...
The Prime Minister says the Government would be open to sending peacekeepers to Ukraine if a ceasefire was reached. The government has announced a $30 million spend on tourism infrastructure and biodiversity projects, including $11m spent to improve popular visitor sites and further $19m towards biodiversity efforts. A New Zealand-born ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler “But what about when the sun doesn't shine?!” Ah yes, the energy debate’s equivalent of “The Earth is flat!” Every time someone mentions solar or wind power, some self-proclaimed energy expert emerges from the woodwork to drop this supposedly devastating truth bomb: ...
This post by Nicolas Reid was originally published on Linked in. It is republished here with permission.In this article I look into data on how well the rail network serve New Zealanders, and how many people might be able to travel by train… if we ran more than a ...
Hi,Before we get into Hayden Donnell’s new column about how yes, Donald Trump is definitely the Antichrist, I wanted to touch on something feral that happened in New Zealand last week.Members of Destiny Church pushed and punched their way into an Auckland library, apparently angry it was part of Pride ...
Despite delays, logjams and overcrowding in our emergency departments, funding constraints are limiting the numbers of nurses and doctors being trained. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, the top six things in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on Tuesday, February 18 are:A NZ Herald investigation ...
Now that the US has ripped up the Atlantic alliance, Europe is more vulnerable now than at any time since the mid-1930s. Apparently, Europe and Ukraine itself will not have a seat at the table in the talks between US President Donald Trump and Russian leader Vladimir Putin that will ...
Olivia and Noah and Hana are going to the library!It is fun to go to the library. It has books and songs and mat time and people who smile at you and say, Hello Olivia, what have you been doing this morning?The library is more fun than the mall. At ...
The Government has spent $3.6 million dollars on a retail crime advisory group, including paying its chair $920 a day, to come up with ideas already dismissed as dangerous by police. ...
The Green Party supports the peaceful occupation at Lake Rotokākahi and are calling for the controversial sewerage project on the lake to be stopped until the Environment Court has made a decision. ...
ActionStation’s Oral Healthcare report, released today, paints a dire picture of unmet need and inequality across the country, highlighting the urgency of free dental care for all New Zealanders. ...
The Golden Age There has been long-standing recognition that New Zealand First has an unrivalled reputation for delivering for our older New Zealanders. This remains true, and is reflected in our coalition agreement. While we know there is much that we can and will do in this space, it is ...
Labour Te Atatū MP Phil Twyford has written to the charities regulator asking that Destiny Church charities be struck off in the wake of last weekend’s violence by Destiny followers in his electorate. ...
Bills by Labour MPs to remove rules around sale of alcohol on public holidays, and for Crown entities to adopt Māori names have been drawn from the Members’ Bill Ballot. ...
The Government is falling even further behind its promised target of 500 new police officers, now with 72 fewer police officers than when National took office. ...
This morning’s Stats NZ child poverty statistics should act as a wake-up call for the government: with no movement in child poverty rates since June 2023, it’s time to make the wellbeing of our tamariki a political priority. ...
Green Party Co-Leader Marama Davidson’s Consumer Guarantees Right to Repair Amendment Bill has passed its first reading in Parliament this evening. ...
“The ACT Party can’t be bothered putting an MP on one of the Justice subcommittees hearing submissions on their own Treaty Principles Bill,” Labour Justice Spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...
The Government’s newly announced funding for biodiversity and tourism of $30-million over three years is a small fraction of what is required for conservation in this country. ...
The Government's sudden cancellation of the tertiary education funding increase is a reckless move that risks widespread job losses and service reductions across New Zealand's universities. ...
National’s cuts to disability support funding and freezing of new residential placements has resulted in significant mental health decline for intellectually disabled people. ...
The hundreds of jobs lost needlessly as a result of the Kinleith Mill paper production closure will have a devastating impact on the Tokoroa community - something that could have easily been avoided. ...
Today Te Pāti Māori MP for Te Tai Tokerau, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi, released her members bill that will see the return of tamariki and mokopuna Māori from state care back to te iwi Māori. This bill will establish an independent authority that asserts and protects the rights promised in He Whakaputanga ...
The Whangarei District Council being forced to fluoridate their local water supply is facing a despotic Soviet-era disgrace. This is not a matter of being pro-fluoride or anti-fluoride. It is a matter of what New Zealanders see and value as democracy in our country. Individual democratically elected Councillors are not ...
Nicola Willis’ latest supermarket announcement is painfully weak with no new ideas, no real plan, and no relief for Kiwis struggling with rising grocery costs. ...
Half of Pacific children sometimes going without food is just one of many heartbreaking lowlights in the Salvation Army’s annual State of the Nation report. ...
The Salvation Army’s State of the Nation report is a bleak indictment on the failure of Government to take steps to end poverty, with those on benefits, including their children, hit hardest. ...
New Zealand First has today introduced a Member’s Bill which would restore decision-making power to local communities regarding the fluoridation of drinking water. The ‘Fluoridation (Referendum) Legislation Bill’ seeks to repeal the Health (Fluoridation of Drinking Water) Amendment Act 2021 that granted centralised authority to the Direct General of Health ...
New Zealand First has introduced a Member’s Bill aimed at preventing banks from refusing their services to businesses because of the current “Environmental, Social, and Governance (ESG) Framework”. “This Bill ensures fairness and prevents ESG standards from perpetuating woke ideology in the banking sector being driven by unelected, globalist, climate ...
Erica Stanford has reached peak shortsightedness if today’s announcement is anything to go by, picking apart immigration settings piece by piece to the detriment of the New Zealand economy. ...
Our originating document, theTreaty of Waitangi, was signed on February 6, 1840. An agreement between Māori and the British Crown. Initially inked by Ngā Puhi in Waitangi, further signatures were added as it travelled south. The intention was to establish a colony with the cession of sovereignty to the Crown, ...
Te Whatu Ora Chief Executive Margie Apa leaving her job four months early is another symptom of this government’s failure to deliver healthcare for New Zealanders. ...
The Green Party is calling for the Prime Minister to show leadership and be unequivocal about Aotearoa New Zealand’s opposition to a proposal by the US President to remove Palestinians from Gaza. ...
As the world marks three years since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced additional sanctions on Russian entities and support for Ukraine’s recovery and reconstruction. “Russia’s illegal invasion has brought three years of devastation to Ukraine’s people, environment, and infrastructure,” Mr Peters says. “These additional sanctions target 52 ...
Associate Finance Minister David Seymour has today announced the Government’s plan to reform the Overseas Investment Act and make it easier for New Zealand businesses to receive new investment, grow and pay higher wages. “New Zealand is one of the hardest countries in the developed world for overseas people to ...
Associate Health Minister Hon Casey Costello is traveling to Australia for meetings with the aged care sector in Melbourne, Canberra, and Sydney next week. “Australia is our closest partner, so as we consider the changes necessary to make our system more effective and sustainable it makes sense to learn from ...
The Government is boosting investment in the QEII National Trust to reinforce the protection of Aotearoa New Zealand's biodiversity on private land, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. The Government today announced an additional $4.5 million for conservation body QEII National Trust over three years. QEII Trust works with farmers and ...
The closure of the Ava Bridge walkway will be delayed so Hutt City Council have more time to develop options for a new footbridge, says Transport Minister Chris Bishop and Mayor of Lower Hutt, Campbell Barry. “The Hutt River paths are one of the Hutt’s most beloved features. Hutt locals ...
Good afternoon. Can I acknowledge Ngāti Whātua for their warm welcome, Simpson Grierson for hosting us here today, and of course the Committee for Auckland for putting on today’s event. I suspect some of you are sitting there wondering what a boy from the Hutt would know about Auckland, our ...
The Government will invest funding to remove the level crossings in Takanini and Glen Innes and replace them with grade-separated crossings, to maximise the City Rail Link’s ability to speed up journey times by rail and road and boost Auckland’s productivity, Transport Minister Chris Bishop and Auckland Minister Simeon Brown ...
The Government has made key decisions on a Carbon Capture, Utilisation, and Storage (CCUS) framework to enable businesses to benefit from storing carbon underground, which will support New Zealand’s businesses to continue operating while reducing net carbon emissions, Energy and Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “Economic growth is a ...
Minister for Regulation David Seymour says that outdated and burdensome regulations surrounding industrial hemp (iHemp) production are set to be reviewed by the Ministry for Regulation. Industrial hemp is currently classified as a Class C controlled drug under the Misuse of Drugs Act, despite containing minimal THC and posing little ...
The Ministerial Advisory Group on transnational and serious organised crime was appointed by Cabinet on Monday and met for the first time today, Associate Police Minister Casey Costello announced. “The group will provide independent advice to ensure we have a better cross-government response to fighting the increasing threat posed to ...
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon will travel to Viet Nam next week, visiting both Ha Noi and Ho Chi Minh City, accompanied by a delegation of senior New Zealand business leaders. “Viet Nam is a rising star of Southeast Asia with one of the fastest growing economies in the region. This ...
The coalition Government has passed legislation to support overseas investment in the Build-to-Rent housing sector, Associate Minister of Finance Chris Bishop says. “The Overseas Investment (Facilitating Build-to-Rent Developments) Amendment Bill has completed its third reading in Parliament, fulfilling another step in the Government’s plan to support an increase in New ...
The new Police marketing campaign starting today, recreating the ‘He Ain’t Heavy’ ad from the 1990s, has been welcomed by Associate Police Minister Casey Costello. “This isn’t just a great way to get the attention of more potential recruits, it’s a reminder to everyone about what policing is and the ...
No significant change to child poverty rates under successive governments reinforces that lifting children out of material hardship will be an ongoing challenge, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. Figures released by Stats NZ today show no change in child poverty rates for the year ended June 2024, reflecting ...
Minister of Internal Affairs Brooke van Velden is pleased to announce the most common family names given to newborns in 2024. “For the seventh consecutive year, Singh is the most common registered family name, with over 680 babies given this name. Kaur follows closely in second place with 630 babies, while ...
A new $3 million fund from the International Conservation and Tourism Visitor Levy will be used to attract more international visitors to regional destinations this autumn and winter, Tourism and Hospitality Minister Louise Upston says. “The Government has a clear priority to unleash economic growth and getting our visitor numbers ...
Good Evening Let us begin by acknowledging Professor David Capie and the PIPSA team for convening this important conference over the next few days. Whenever the Pacific Islands region comes together, we have a precious opportunity to share perspectives and learn from each other. That is especially true in our ...
The Reserve Bank’s positive outlook indicates the economy is growing and people can look forward to more jobs and opportunities, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The Bank today reduced the Official Cash Rate by 50 basis points. It said it expected further reductions this year and employment to pick up ...
Agriculture Minister, Todd McClay and Minister for Māori Development, Tama Potaka today congratulated the finalists for this year’s Ahuwhenua Trophy, celebrating excellence in Māori sheep and beef farming. The two finalists for 2025 are Whangaroa Ngaiotonga Trust and Tawapata South Māori Incorporation Onenui Station. "The Ahuwhenua Trophy is a prestigious ...
The Government is continuing to respond to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into Abuse in Care by establishing a fund to honour those who died in care and are buried in unmarked graves, and strengthen survivor-led initiatives that support those in need. “The $2 million dual purpose fund will be ...
A busy intersection on SH5 will be made safer with the construction of a new roundabout at the intersection of SH28/Harwoods Road, as we deliver on our commitment to help improve road safety through building safer infrastructure, Transport Minister Chris Bishop says. “Safety is one of the Government’s strategic priorities ...
The Government is turbo charging growth to return confidence to the primary sector through common sense policies that are driving productivity and farm-gate returns, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay announced today. “The latest Federated Farmers Farm Confidence Survey highlights strong momentum across the sector and the Government’s firm commitment to back ...
Improving people’s experience with the Justice system is at the heart of a package of Bills which passed its first reading today Associate Justice Minister Nicole McKee says. “The 63 changes in these Bills will deliver real impacts for everyday New Zealanders. The changes will improve court timeliness and efficiency, ...
Returning the Ō-Rākau battle site to tūpuna ownership will help to recognise the past and safeguard their stories for the benefit of future generations, Minister for Māori Crown Relations Tama Potaka says. The Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passed its third reading at ...
A new university programme will help prepare PhD students for world-class careers in science by building stronger connections between research and industry, Science, Innovation and Technology Minister Dr Shane Reti says. “Our Government is laser focused on growing New Zealand’s economy and to do that, we must realise the potential ...
Health Minister Simeon Brown has today announced funding of more than $14 million to replace the main water supply and ring mains in the main building of Auckland City Hospital. “Addressing the domestic hot water system at the country’s largest hospital, which opened in 2003, is vitally important to ensure ...
The Government is investing $30 million from the International Visitor Conservation and Tourism Levy to fund more than a dozen projects to boost biodiversity and the tourist economy, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. “Tourism is a key economic driver, and nature is our biggest draw card for international tourists,” says ...
Deputy Prime Minister Winston Peters will travel to Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, China, Mongolia, and the Republic of Korea later this week. “New Zealand enjoys long-standing and valued relationships with Saudi Arabia and the UAE, both highly influential actors in their region. The visit will focus on building ...
Minister for Rail Winston Peters has announced director appointments for Ferry Holdings Limited – the schedule 4a company charged with negotiating ferry procurement contracts for two new inter-island ferries. Mr Peters says Ferry Holdings Limited will be responsible for negotiating long-term port agreements on either side of the Cook Strait ...
Ophthalmology patients in Kaitaia are benefiting from being able to access the complete cataract care pathway closer to home, Health Minister Simeon Brown says. “Ensuring New Zealanders have access to timely, quality healthcare is a priority for the Government. “Since 30 September 2024, Kaitaia Hospital has been providing cataract care ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Ivan Vinogradov, Animal Behaviour Researcher, Australian National University Turner Brockman/iNaturalist, CC BY-SA We humans often underestimate the intelligence of other animals. You’ve probably seen videos of monkeys, ravens or parrots solving puzzles. But fish also possess impressive problem-solving skills, despite the ...
The Treaty Principles Bill will "whitewash" the Crown and Māori partnership, and "elevate the oppression of my people", says the daughter of Joe Hawke, who led the Bastion Point land occupation. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dirk Baur, Professor of Finance, The University of Western Australia The gold price has surged to a new all-time high above US$2,900 (A$4,544) an ounce this month. It has risen by 12% since the start of the year and clearly outperformed ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Leigh Carriage, Senior Lecturer in Music, Southern Cross University The multi-Grammy award winner Roberta Flack has passed away at 88. Her approach and sound were a unique combination of soul, folk, rhythm and blues, jazz, pop and musicianship, and arranging skills so ...
Everything you missed from day nine of the Treaty principles bill hearings, when the Justice Committee heard 14 hours of submissions across two sessions.Read our recaps of the previous hearings here.Simultaneous oral submissions on the Treaty principles bill were heard over eight hours on Tuesday – one in ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Philippa Collin, Professor, Institute for Culture and Society, Western Sydney University Shutterstock Ahead of the Australian election, candidates, advisers and political parties might be paying attention to what young people think. And if they’re not, they should be. This election ...
By Christina Persico, RNZ Pacific bulletin editor Samoan Prime Minister Fiame Naomi Mata’afa has survived a vote of no confidence after weeks of political turmoil. In a vote today, she defeated the motion by 34 votes in favour and 15 against. The motion was prompted by a split in the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Dennis Wesselbaum, Associate Professor, Department of Economics, University of Otago Piyaset/Shutterstock Climate change is no longer a distant threat. It’s here, it’s real and it increasingly affects us all. But predicting climate change and its associated costs, particularly over long ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yi Li, Senior Lecturer in Marketing, Macquarie University udra11, Shutterstock When you’re deciding what to eat for lunch or dinner, do you consider the meal’s greenhouse gas emissions? How do you compare the carbon footprint of a beef sandwich with that ...
Liv Sisson reviews the latest instalment of the Christchurch music festival with a growing reputation as one of the best in the country. There were plenty of memorable outfits at Electric Avenue, but one stuck out for me. On day two I saw a guy, maybe mid-50s, dancing hard while ...
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Jacqui Dean – Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear (as the disgraced Keeping Stock was want to say)
They’re not very good with bigly numbers, are they?
Or owning up to bullsh*tting.
She's been at the dihydrogen monoxide, again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171213085925/http:/www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/38005/National-MP-falls-victim-to-water-hoax
Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
Bingles had his turn. Needs to shut up now and let the next generation get on with it.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
Link, Paddy?
Just saw this with the post lag time.
Parody, not a quote hence no speech marks.
Valedictory speeches are all subsequently printed after speeches, including actions such as having tissues, on Hansard at https://www.parliament.nz .
You use the database search on Hansard.
I do not miss Morrisey's fake transcripts one bit either.
Morrisey ?? I don’t know what that means Sacha did you mean
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122292806/sir-bill-english-warns-businesses-to-prepare-for-wshaped-downturn?cid=app-android
Please provide a link with the post next time.
This will take a 10 minute lag to post.
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
So to be a Standardista one has to fit the mould and one must write in a conformed manner?
Zàijiàn, zhù nǐ chéng gōng.
Goodbye and go well in your endeavours
Eh? Supplying a link is hardly a big ask. Grow up.
You are a link demanding bore . Time and technical problems stops some of us
Eeerch, every other day the link monitor is hassling someone .
Sacha where you a parking warden in a past life?
Paddy quoted, so he already had the page open. If quoting there has to be a link.
There's enough leeway here for tech and time issues, people can make that clear, but I don't think that was the problem here
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
one would hope that Morrissey wouldn't be so stupid as to comment while banned, which is a permanent ban offence.
Huh?? AFAIK, he’s not banned!?
I don't believe Paddy is a sockpuppet. Did not realise Morrissey had been banned again.
Moz ain't banned. Observer Tokoroa recently had a month off and I'm guessing PaddyOT and him may be related.
You reckon?
The grandkid and grandkids alive and well thanks.
http://garagecollective.blogspot.com/2014/05/fighting-war-anarchists-wobblies-and.html?m=1
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00093/100-years-of-anarchism-in-new-zealand-celebrated-today.htm
Similarity in times of 'crisis' .
If you can't cope with the basics of online discussion, I recommend talkback radio.
Wow!
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018757278/i-was-panicking-mother-explains-escape-from-isolation
Edit, when I started writing this it was 1/2 past 6 and no comments.
Your sympathy is welcome and noted. The ‘hardliners’ won’t be swayed though and will still demand swift and harsh punishment without compassion
I am sharing a lounge with one of those hardliners.
Hearing that the family was wearing masks and the son in Auckland was wearing a mask when caught, changed my view of the story.
Her side was a little inconsistent though she made a reasonable case (assuming her side was reasonably accurate which is by no means a given)
Equally, we've only had the state's version as gospel till now.
True enough although Id suggest the states version is viewed with suspicion by default…as said her version had some inconsistencies
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
Yes, entirely conditional on them not endangering others with their selfishness.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
No, its not.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
The context in which their actions took place is where compassion can arise.
No, not really. In context its:
Their dad died, oh dear, how sad, never mind.
I don't have any compassion for any one who wilfully endangers others just because they feel hurt.
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
In other words DTB, you're right, compassion is subjective . No one gives a fuck if it doesn't reward themselves.I better cite that too. https://genius.com/Eminem-white-america-lyrics
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– false negatives are a thing
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
Your 1 hour and 45 mins is predicated on the state not failing to meet it's own deadline. Something it had already done several times.
Also that hindsight you are using is 20/20 vision. Not something available to this family at the time.
What was available to the family at the time was that they knew that they weren't allowed out.
What's so hard to understand about that?
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
And?
This may come as a surprise but that's not our problem. Having a pandemic is.
Yes – pandemic.
Yes. That's why they were in isolation.
Nope. Simply logic and what is required of us when there's a pandemic happening.
Nope.
Yep. The emotions are plentiful: "Fuck ’em." "Fuck her."
And?
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Great job RNZ, you fucking idiots.
It's late.
Time for bed.
Nighty night.
100% draco…………I have no sympathy for anyone absconding, whatever their circumstances
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
They didn't need to go to the funeral.
They didn't need to see the body.
Society did need them in quarantine to help protect from a deadly disease so that we didn't have so many more funerals.
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
That dicking around call you in an hour kicking the can down the road crap is just so DHB.
Especially when it sounds like all the other ducks were in a row: police, security military, transport…
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
Sad and true, Anne – and still widely prevalent. They seem to dig their heels in instead of opening their minds..
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Perhaps Woodhouse gained his copies from someone other than Boag.
That is not what an investigator doing their job does – ever.
Someone fire him and ask for our money back.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
Will the privacy commissioner check to see if Boag sent the email to anyone else?
If this is not going to happen, not good enough.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
Don't cart his kids off to Australia in the first place?
Hardliner I'm picking there, my sooty friend.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
Fuck ’em.
Did you listen to her?
Nope. And I won't. Surprised she gets the air time, frankly.
Rightio.
100% Muttonbird
Elsewhere I have said the initial breach was annoying but the pimping of her case by RNZ and now some Standard faithful has got me really upset.
Ok, this is getting a little nasty; do you know what pimping means?
Of course I know what pimping means. I will retract if you order me to do so.
Like I say, this case had disappeared into the many cases of quarantine absconding until the media and some comments here re-highlighted it.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
Well, I suppose that depends upon when they left and if they expected him to suddenly die at the time.
You're going soft on me Draco…
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
If I have read you right, the subtle difference here is that the body was organised to be brought to Hamilton, to an appropriate facility.
The family would have a brief time with him, return to isolation, and the body goes back to Auckland for the 10.30 tangi.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Well, yeah.
My point was that leaving wasn't the problem – it was the expecting everything to be the same after the pandemic hit.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
Oh gsays it is boiling.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Signed H.I.KnowQC ".
‐——————-
Now for my invoice …..
I was wondering if Boag's maiden name was Heron…
This selfish woman had no concern for the safety and well being other people, and we’re supposed to do what after listening to her wee sob story?
Feel badly for her?
I don't fucking think so.
Did you listen to the interview?
Yup. She's special so she thinks she's entitled to put her own interests ahead of others. Fuck her.
That doesn't really reconcile with them all wearing their masks.
Yeah, it really actually does.
That's okay, then.
/
https://www.lexico.com/definition/special_pleading
Please expand?
You're citing an exception to the principle that doing a runner from quarantine is selfish and self serving.
Ta.
I figure when the clock is ticking, and the PTB are dragging their heels, there comes a time when you have to think and act for your family and self.
Because your family and self are special …..right?
/
You're engaging in logical fallacies to support an unsupportable position.
Really at the start of this, compassion arose after hearing Mum's version.
Not that what the family did was tickety-boo.
I went from being a gentle hardliner to a softer position when I had a fuller picture of goings on.
That's more of that special pleading.
She could release a statement on Hateful Comments Toward the Selfish Escapees from Quarantine Community.
https://twitter.com/russdiamond/status/1288488309816254469
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Jeez, I trust you are just an anonymous keyboard warrior with no actual authority.
I have zero authority. Just an NZ citizen like you. She jimmied a window and broke out 5 people during the most dangerous pandemic in 100 years.
Ship her and her kids back to Queensland. That’s the life they chose.
I was mildly upset by the initial breach but I’m now wild at the sympathetic framing by RNZ and now some commenters on this forum.
Could be worse, you could be sick to death!
I, and my family of four are fine, thanks.
Full sport for them, nine engagements per week plus full academic classes uninterrupted.
Unlike Melbourne which has been forced back into an ill-considered L3 lockdown. No kids’ sport. It should be an Australia wide L4 lockdown.
This Queensland woman and her family jearpordised my family’s sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of other families like mine.
She can go back to AUS anytime and NZ will be much better off.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
Bizarre response, but ok then.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/judith-collins-plans-to-grill-jacinda-ardern-on-behrouz-boochani-s-refugee-status.html
Media and politicians love to play on and play up the emotive side of things.
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
Agree 100% Draco and Muttonbird
I read your comments.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
Your logical fallacy of the day is: Appeal to Emotion
"I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her damn emotions."
Her emotions were not being anticipated and they needed to be as there was a crisis unfolding.
Did anyone consider that the mother could try and escape and to prevent this?
And
How would you have prevented an escape?
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Finally! Someone asks the right question.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
The "real question" is what would YOU have done in the same circumstances, and why.
ie, would you have waited for conformation to be able to leave with permission.
or
Would you have broken out, knowingly breaking the Law.
This applies to all sides of the argument.
What would You have done?
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Treetop
Your arguing after the fact.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
Hypothetical
Because you're not sure what your own response might be if you were placed in the same circumstances?
Would you have raised a flag, asked for more assistance, or forced a window to escape?
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
Patients is a rare human trait.
Emotional greif clouds peoples judgment.
Border Quarantine is there to protect every NZer.
We need to learn from these experiences and make adjustments accordingly.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
Because its quarantine.
And then we'd have thousands of people demanding the same bloody thing with an inevitable loss of quarantine.
No, it wouldn't. The breaking of quarantine is inherently not safe.
Common sense is a fallacy being neither common nor sense.
What would have easily mitigated this shit show was a stupid, selfish person not breaking quarantine.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
You spoke to soon about any reaction. Your topic of the mother's interview gave some strong views.
Wow to the response.
Seems having more money than dog makes you stupid.
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1288521738641342473
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/29/madonnas-instagram-flagged-for-spreading-coronavirus-misinformation
Lost eyes all over the shop….
https://twitter.com/RachelBitecofer/status/1288615177643003911