Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
😂 Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
(the deserving poor and the undeserving poor)
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context.
a feeling of deep sympathy and sorrow for another who is stricken by misfortune, accompanied by a strong desire to alleviate the suffering.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
There is a difference between the person and what they did.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
Webb said the family arrived into New Zealand from Brisbane on 21 July, with the funeral of the children's father due to take place today.
"Upon arrival they requested an exemption to spend time with a family member and a recently deceased close relative, and attend the funeral. This request was declined as the health risk was deemed too high at that point in time, noting they had not yet conducted a day 3 test.
Webb said the family tested negative for Covid-19 after the results from their first test came back mid to late afternoon yesterday.
"At 6.15pm last night the family were contacted by my team and were advised we were actively considering their application, and doing everything we could to support it. They were made aware that the application process was looking positive, and that they would be given a decision by 8pm last night."
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family.
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement 🙁
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
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And why did the Crown not challenge the Tribunal’s jurisdiction? Gary Judd writes – Retired District Court Judge, David Harvey, has posted on his A Halflings View Substack an excellent summary of Justice Isacs’ judgment declining to uphold the witness summons issued by the Waitangi Tribunal ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result?As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and ...
Macklemore isn’t someone I’d usually think about. Sure I liked his big hit from a few years back, everybody did it was catchy and cool with some memorable lines. But if I was going to think of artists who might speak out on political matters or world events, he wouldn’t ...
Another week goes by in the Luxon government’s efforts to roll back the past 70 years of social progress. The school lunches programme is to be downgraded by $107 million, and women need bother their heads no longer about pay equity, let alone expect ACC to provide adequate sexual violence ...
Brrr, the first cold snap of the year. Hope you’re rugged up nice and warm. Here are some stories that caught our eye this week… This Week on Greater Auckland On Monday, we had a post from a new contributor, Connor Sharp, who dug into the public feedback ...
Almost all of the Wellington City Council’s recommended zoning changes to allow many more apartments and townhouses in its inner-suburbs have been approved.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guest on geopolitics, ...
Open access notablesA Global Increase in Nearshore Tropical Cyclone Intensification, Balaguru et al., Earth's Future:Tropical Cyclones (TCs) inflict substantial coastal damages, making it pertinent to understand changing storm characteristics in the important nearshore region. Past work examined several aspects of TCs relevant for impacts in coastal regions. However, ...
Do you believe New Zealand runs its general elections fairly and competently? As a voter, can you be confident that the votes on your ballot will be counted towards the final result? As a political scientist, I’ve been asked these questions many times and always answered “yes”, with very few ...
Thus far May has followed on from a quiet April in the blogging department, but in fairness, it has been another case of doing what I am supposed to be doing, namely writing original fiction. Plus reading. So don’t worry – I have been productive. But in order to reassure ...
Buzz from the Beehive A new government agency will open for business on July 1 – the Social Investment Agency. As a new standalone central agency effective from 1 July, it will lead the development of social investment across Government, helping ministers understand who they need to invest in, what ...
Bryce Edwards writes – “Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The ...
Alwyn Poole writes – After being elected to Parliament in 2008 the maiden speech of Hipkins was substantially around education policy. He was Labour’s spokesperson for education 2011 – 2017. He was Minister for Education from 2017 until February 2023. This is approximately 88% of the time Labour ...
Eric Crampton writes – A fashion industry group is lobbying for protections. They make the usual arguments and a newer one. None of it makes sense. An industry group says it pumped $7.8 billion into the economy last year – that’s 1.9 percent of New Zealand’s GDP. ...
In December 2006, Fiji's military leader Voreqe Bainimarama overthrew the elected government in a coup. He ruled Fiji for the next 16 years, first as dictator, then as "elected" Prime Minister. But now, he's finally been sent to jail where he belongs. Sadly, this isn't for his real crime of ...
Don't like National's corrupt Muldoonist "fast-track" law? Aotearoa's environmental NGO's - Greenpeace, Forest & Bird, WWF, Coromandel Watchdog, Coal Action Network Aotearoa, Kiwis Against Seabed Mining, and others - have announced a joint march against it in Auckland in June: When: 13:00, 8 June, 2024 Where: Aotea Square, Auckland You ...
Seymour describes sushi as too woke for school meals. There are no fish sushi meals recommended by the School Lunches programme. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: The Government will swap out hot meals for packaged sandwiches to save $107 million on school lunches for poor kids. MSD has pulled ...
I don't mind stealin' bread from the mouths of decadenceBut I can't feed on the powerless when my cup's already overfilled, yeahBut it's on the table, the fire's cookin'And they're farmin' babies, while slaves are workin'The blood is on the table and the mouths are chokin'But I'm goin' hungry, yeahSome ...
The Ardern Government’s chickens came home to roost yesterday with the news that the country is short of natural gas. In 2018, Labour banned offshore petroleum exploration, and industry executives say that the attendant loss of confidence by the industry impacted overall investment in onshore gas fields. Energy Resources Minister ...
Hi,If you’ve been digging through the newly launched Webworm store (orders are being dispatched worldwide as I type!) you’ll have noticed the best model we had was Calvin.This is Calvin.Calvin.Calvin is 7, and is the son of my producer over on Flightless Bird, Rob — aka “Wobby Wob”. Rob also ...
This video includes conclusions of the creator climate scientist Dr. Adam Levy. It is presented to our readers as an informed perspective. Please see video description for references (if any). Climate change is everywhere. And when something's everywhere it can feel like it's nowhere. So how do we get our heads ...
Its a law like gravity: whenever a right-wing government is elected, they start attacking democracy. And now, after talking to their Republican and Tory and Fidesz chums at the International Democracy Union forum in Wellington, National is doing it here, announcing plans to remove election-day enrolment. Or, to put it ...
Yesterday Winston Peters focussed his attention on the important matter at hand. Tweeting. Like the former, and quite possibly next, orange POTUS, from whom he takes much of his political strategy, Winston is an avid X’er.His message didn’t resemble an historic address this time. In fact it was more reminiscent ...
Buzz from the Beehive A significant decline in natural gas production has given Resources Minister Shane Jones an opportunity to reiterate his enthusiasm for the mining and burning of coal. For good measure, he has praised an announcement from Genesis Energy that it will resume importing coal. He and Energy ...
“Follow the money” is the classic directive to journalists trying to understand where power and influence lie in society. In terms of uncovering who influences various New Zealand political parties and governments, it therefore pays to look at who is funding them. The political parties are legally obliged to make ...
Rob MacCullough writes – Here is my subjective ranking on a “most-left” to “most-right” scale of most of our major NZ Universities, with some anecdotal (and at times amusing) evidence to back up the claim.Extreme Left Auckland University of TechnologyEvidenceThe ...
Eric Crampton writes – I hadn’t thought about this one until a helpful email showed up in my inbox.It’s pretty obvious that income tax thresholds should automatically index with inflation – whether to anchor the thresholds in percentiles of the income distribution, or to anchor against a real ...
Jacqui Van Der Kaay writes – Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National ...
Gary Judd writes – The Dean of the law school at the Auckland University of Technology is someone called Khylee Quince. I have been sent her social media posting in which she has, over the LawNews headline “Senior King’s Counsel files complaint about compulsory tikanga Maori studies for ...
Cleo Paskal writes – WASHINGTON, D.C.: ‘Many of us have received phone calls from [the opposing camp] telling them if they join the camp they will be given projects for their wards and $300,000 [around US$35,000] each’, says former Malaita Premier Daniel Suidani. The elections in Solomon Islands aren’t ...
With hindsight, it was inevitable that (a) Hamas would agree to the ceasefire deal brokered by Egypt and Qatar and that ( b) Israel would then immediately launch attacks on Rafah, regardless. We might have hoped the concessions made by Hamas would cause Israel to desist from slaughtering thousands more ...
Placards and mourners outside the Kilbirnie Mosque following the Christchurch terror attack: MSD has terminated the Kaiwhakaoranga service, which has been used by 415 families since the attacks. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: The Government’s pledge to only cut ‘back office’ staff rather than ‘frontline’ services is on increasingly shaky ground, with ...
There’s been a few smaller public transport announcements over the last week or so that I thought I’d cover in a single post. Fareshare I’ve long called for Auckland Transport to offer a way to enable employer-subsidised public transport options. The need for this took on even more importance ...
Parliament’s speaker had no option but to refer Green MP Julie Anne Genter to the Privileges Committee for her behaviour in the House last Wednesday evening. The incident, in which she crossed the floor to wave a book and yell at National Minister Matt Doocey, reflects poorly on Genter and ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Who likes being sneered at? Nobody. Worse yet, when the sneerer has their facts all wrong, and might well be an idiot.The sneer in question is The adults are in charge now, and it is a sneer offered in retort to criticism of this new Government, no matter how well ...
When in government, Labour pushed to extend the Parliamentary term to four years, to reduce accountability and our ability to vote out a bad government. And now, they're trying to do it through the member's ballot, with a Four-Year Parliamentary Term Legislation Bill. The bill at least requires a referendum ...
A ballot for a single Member's Bill was held today, and the following bill was drawn: Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill (Hūhana Lyndon) The bill would prevent the government from stealing Māori land in breach of Te Tiriti o Waitangi. It ...
Simeon Brown, alongside Wayne Brown, is favouring a political figleaf now in exchange for loading up tens of millions in extra interest costs on Auckland ratepayers. Photo: Lynn GrievesonTL;DR: Ratings agency Standard & Poor’s is pushing back hard at suggestions from Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Mayor Wayne Brown ...
Buzz from the Beehive One headline-grabber from the Beehive yesterday was the OECD’s advice that the government must bring the Budget deficit under control or face higher interest rates. Another was the announcement of a $1.9 billion “investment” in Corrections over the next four years. In the best interests of ...
Chris Trotter writes – Had Zheng He’s fleet sailed east, not west, in the early Fifteenth Century, how different our world would be. There is little reason to suppose that the sea-going junks of the Ming Dynasty, among the largest and most sophisticated sailing vessels ever constructed, would have failed ...
David Farrar writes – Two articles give a useful contrast in balance. Both seek to be neutral explainer articles. This one in the Herald on Social Investment covers the pros and cons nicely. It links to critical pieces and talks about aspects that failed and aspects that are more ...
The tikanga regulations will compel law students to be taught that a system which does not conform with the rule of law is nevertheless law which should be observed and applied…Gary Judd KC writes – I have made a complaint to Parliament’s Regulation ...
The future of Te Huia, the train between Hamilton and Auckland, has been getting a lot of attention recently as current funding for it is only in place till the end of June. The government initially agreed to a five year trial, through to April 2026, but that was subject ...
TL;DR: Hamas has just agreed to Israel’s ceasefire plan. Nelson hospital’s rebuild has been cut back to save money. The OECD suggests New Zealand break up network monopolies, including in electricity. PM Christopher Luxon’s news conference on a prison expansion announcement last night was his messiest yet.Here’s my top six ...
A homicide in Ponsonby, a manhunt with a killer on the run. The nation’s leader stands before a press conference reassuring a frightened nation that he’ll sort it out, he’ll keep them safe, he’ll build some new prison spaces.Sorry what? There’s a scary dude on the run with a gun ...
Hi,I know it’s been awhile since there’s been any Webworm merch — and today that all changes!Over the last four months, I’ve been working with New Zealand artist Jess Johnson to create a series of t-shirts, caps and stickers that are infused with Webworm DNA — and as of right ...
The OECD’s chief economist yesterday laid it on the line for the new Government: bring the deficit under control or face higher Reserve Bank interest rates for longer. And to bring the deficit under control, she meant not borrowing for tax cuts. But there was more. Without policy changes—introducing a ...
After a hiatus of over four months Selwyn Manning and I finally got it together to re-start the “A View from Afar” podcast series. We shall see how we go but aim to do 2 episodes per month if possible. … Continue reading → ...
In 2008, the UK Parliament passed the Climate Change Act 2008. The law established a system of targets, budgets, and plans, with inbuilt accountability mechanisms; the aim was to break the cycle of empty promises and replace it with actual progress towards emissions reduction. The law was passed with near-universal ...
Buzz from the Beehive Local Water Done Well – let’s be blunt – is a silly name, but the first big initiative to put it into practice has gone done well. This success is reflected in the headline on an RNZ report:District mayors welcome Auckland’s new water deal with ...
This is a re-post from Yale Climate ConnectionsA farmworker cleans the solar panels of a solar water pump in the village of Jagadhri, Haryana Country, India. (Photo credit: Prashanth Vishwanathan/ IWMI) Decisions made in India over the next few years will play a key role in global ...
Lindsay Mitchell writes – The Children’s Minister, Karen Chhour, intends to repeal Section 7AA from the Oranga Tamariki Act 1989 because it creates conflict between claimed Crown Treaty obligations and the child’s best interests. In her words, “Oranga Tamariki’s governing principles and its act should be colour ...
Geoffrey Miller writes – The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. ...
Brian Easton writes – This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be (I will report on them ...
TL;DR:Winston Peters is reported to have won a budget increase for MFAT. David Seymour wanted his Ministry of Regulation to be three times bigger than the Productivity Commission. Simeon Brown is appointing a Crown Monitor to Watercare to protect the Claytons Crown Guarantee he had to give ratings agencies ...
The gloves are off. That might seem to be the undertone of surprisingly tough talk from New Zealand’s foreign and trade ministers. Winston Peters, the foreign minister, may be facing legal action after making allegations about former Australian foreign minister Bob Carr on Radio New Zealand. Carr had made highly ...
I could be a florist'Round the corner from Rye LaneI'll be giving daisies to craziesBut, baby, I'll wrap you up real safe Oh, I can give you flowers At the end of every dayFor the center of your table, a rainbowIn case you have people 'round to stay Depending on ...
TL;DR: The six key events to watch in Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy in the week to May 12 include:PM Christopher Luxon is scheduled to hold a post-Cabinet news conference at 4 pm today. Finance Minister Nicola Willis will give a pre-budget speech on Thursday.Parliament sits from Question Time at 2pm on ...
The price of the foreign affairs “reset” is now becoming apparent, with Defence set to get a funding boost in the Budget. Finance Minister Nicola Willis has confirmed that it will be one of the few votes, apart from Health and Education and possibly Police, which will get an increase ...
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Today New Zealand First will introduce a Member’s Bill that will protect women’s spaces. The ‘Fair Access to Bathrooms Bill’ will require, primarily in the interest and safety of women and girls, that all new non-domestic publicly accessible buildings provide separate, clearly demarcated, unisex and single sex bathrooms. This Bill ...
The Green Party is welcoming Climate Change Minister Simon Watts’ continuation of Hon. James Shaw’s cross-party work on climate adaptation, now in the form of a Finance and Expenditure Committee Inquiry. ...
The National Government plans to cut 390 jobs at ACC, including roles in the areas of prevention of sexual violence, road safety and workplace safety. ...
The Government has been caught in opposition to evidence once again as it looks to usher in tried, tested and failed work seminar obligations for job-seeking beneficiaries. ...
The Green Party is welcoming the announcement by the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform Chris Bishop to approve most of the Wellington City Council’s District Plan recommendations. ...
David Seymour has failed to get the sweeping cuts he wanted to the free and healthy school lunch programme, Labour education spokesperson Jan Tinetti said. ...
Hon Willie Jackson has been invited by the Oxford Union to debate the motion “This House Believes British Museums are not Very British’ on May 23rd. ...
Green Party MP Hūhana Lyndon says her Public Works (Prohibition of Compulsory Acquisition of Māori Land) Amendment Bill is an opportunity to right some past wrongs around the alienation of Māori land. ...
A senior, highly respected King’s Counsel with decades of experience in our law courts, Gary Judd KC, has filed a complaint about compulsory tikanga Māori studies for law students - highlighting the utter depths of absurdity this woke cultural madness has taken our society. The tikanga regulations will compel law ...
The Government needs to be clear with the people of the Nelson Marlborough region about the changes it is considering for the Nelson Hospital rebuild, Labour health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall said. ...
Ministers must front up about which projects it will push through under its Fast Track Approvals legislation, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
Introduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...
New Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...
Jobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...
A new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...
Check against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...
Your Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...
The Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...
Rape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...
Associate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...
New research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...
There has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...
Defence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...
Welcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...
It is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...
New Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...
A new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...
The Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...
Minister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...
New Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...
Six tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...
New Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...
The OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
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Jacqui Dean – Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear (as the disgraced Keeping Stock was want to say)
They’re not very good with bigly numbers, are they?
Or owning up to bullsh*tting.
She's been at the dihydrogen monoxide, again.
https://web.archive.org/web/20171213085925/http:/www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/38005/National-MP-falls-victim-to-water-hoax
Sir Bill's economic policy looks like he has read the IMF reports for one, then deleted the solutions of IMF and written his own.
Let it fail policy and advised " businesses to hoard some cash," .
“Get ready for a long haul.”
English said , " “capital and labour” had to move from tourism and some other sectors to those that might grow, such as “digitally oriented activities” .
“That means businesses failures,” he said.
He advised against the Government trying to intervene too much in that transition.
“Some of it is the Government just keeping out of the way,” he said.
English gives acknowledgment of similarities to US, soaring stock market( billions) but high unemployment- compared- NZ strong rising economic indicators ( activity back at pre covid levels.Treasury) yet unemployment still rising.
Is the causation due to further inducing Corporations to hoard?
An example hence would be Tower Insurance during lockdown announcing a 6 month profit of $12M dollars, profit up from 2019.
Then Tower announces at the same time the sacking of 108 employers to further save another $3M for profit.
Bingles had his turn. Needs to shut up now and let the next generation get on with it.
They are. Paula's farewell speech is their next policy….
I did this and I did that but we never really finished that ..but you know the green and white papers… and Billy's social Investment modèls….fixing up abused kids and peeeeple are all a work in progress, you know eeeh ?
Link, Paddy?
Just saw this with the post lag time.
Parody, not a quote hence no speech marks.
Valedictory speeches are all subsequently printed after speeches, including actions such as having tissues, on Hansard at https://www.parliament.nz .
You use the database search on Hansard.
I do not miss Morrisey's fake transcripts one bit either.
Morrisey ?? I don’t know what that means Sacha did you mean
http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/122292806/sir-bill-english-warns-businesses-to-prepare-for-wshaped-downturn?cid=app-android
Please provide a link with the post next time.
This will take a 10 minute lag to post.
A link for what weka? For writing one's own words ?? I don't get your adding a wagging finger ? I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is.
You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post unreferenced including what may be deemed liabilous and or containing a range of prejudiced "……ism" s. No wagging fingers there ! Yet in one way or another with even the targetting by pernicious comments, I get a group of minions who dash in like a school yard brawl to support the blanking.
However, reminded the other day that I should remember my place, by unclever words from a superior like " for us regular posters" . So either we’re encouraging a diverse democracy or can keep TS as an echo chamber.
Serious question. What reference , weka, please state; and who is Morrisey?
You used actual quotes in your first comment. Yes, you have to provide a link if that's where you got the quotes from.
you took that from the article that you eventually linked to. I'm asking you to link in the same comment next time.
And now that you've brought my attention to it, that whole bit in italics is lifted straight from the article, not just the bits in quotation marks. When you were asked for a link, you said it was parody and not quotes, and then referenced Hansard. But they're not your own words.
So, next time, please link, and please make it clear which are your words and which are someone else's. If you want to write parody, you will have to use your own words not the words of an offsite journalist.
Morrisey is another poster fond of artful transcripts. And yes, the link to the thing you were satirising is helpful. Otherwise how are the rest of us meant to have a clue what you are on about?
So to be a Standardista one has to fit the mould and one must write in a conformed manner?
Zàijiàn, zhù nǐ chéng gōng.
Goodbye and go well in your endeavours
Eh? Supplying a link is hardly a big ask. Grow up.
You are a link demanding bore . Time and technical problems stops some of us
Eeerch, every other day the link monitor is hassling someone .
Sacha where you a parking warden in a past life?
Paddy quoted, so he already had the page open. If quoting there has to be a link.
There's enough leeway here for tech and time issues, people can make that clear, but I don't think that was the problem here 😉
Morrissey. About – "You know what weka? I've been around TS for some years. I have read post after post…I have no idea who or what the reference to Morrisey is. " Paddy Oh dear said this. I wondered how anyone could be a frequent visitor and not know about Morris[s]ey.
My conclusion is that this is Morrissey or his doppelganger. It seems his style.
And other commenters; if you are paraphrasing or putting your interpretation of the meaning behind the words – say so, 'This is how her farewell speech sounded to me' etc. and you try to remember where you saw/heard the original event. It helps us all to get a picture of what is going on to know if you heard it in the local toffs club, or at a white supremacist rally, or at the pub after downing x? beers.
one would hope that Morrissey wouldn't be so stupid as to comment while banned, which is a permanent ban offence.
Huh?? AFAIK, he’s not banned!?
I don't believe Paddy is a sockpuppet. Did not realise Morrissey had been banned again.
Moz ain't banned. Observer Tokoroa recently had a month off and I'm guessing PaddyOT and him may be related.
You reckon? 😀
😂 Love the guesswork but I'm not related last time I checked. On one side my links are directly 3 down to one Carl Mumme, famously misnamed as a ' fascist', racially profiled, wrongfully imprisoned on Sommes island 1916 but along with others were actually heroes who are celebrated as the fighters for rights as the roots of the Labour movement.
The grandkid and grandkids alive and well thanks.
http://garagecollective.blogspot.com/2014/05/fighting-war-anarchists-wobblies-and.html?m=1
https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1307/S00093/100-years-of-anarchism-in-new-zealand-celebrated-today.htm
Similarity in times of 'crisis' .
If you can't cope with the basics of online discussion, I recommend talkback radio.
Wow!
I thought Daily Review would be boiling, what with valedictory speeches, dire polls for the Nats, the very eloquent grieving Mother giving her side of fleeing Hamilton's isolation, and the Heron/Officer Barbrady report.
I have a lot more sympathy for this family's plight after hearing Mum's side of events.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018757278/i-was-panicking-mother-explains-escape-from-isolation
Edit, when I started writing this it was 1/2 past 6 and no comments.
Your sympathy is welcome and noted. The ‘hardliners’ won’t be swayed though and will still demand swift and harsh punishment without compassion 🙁
I am sharing a lounge with one of those hardliners.
Hearing that the family was wearing masks and the son in Auckland was wearing a mask when caught, changed my view of the story.
Her side was a little inconsistent though she made a reasonable case (assuming her side was reasonably accurate which is by no means a given)
Equally, we've only had the state's version as gospel till now.
True enough although Id suggest the states version is viewed with suspicion by default…as said her version had some inconsistencies
the kind of judgemental comments I've seen around these cases reminds me of bene bashing. The inability to imagine or allow for circumstances that might explain behaviour. The left needs to take a long hard look at itself. At the moment it looks like compassion for other humans is entirely conditional.
Yes, entirely conditional on them not endangering others with their selfishness.
then we can't complain when the right do this to beneficiaries too. If compassion is only for those deemed worthy by the person with the biggest stick, it's probably not actually compassion.
Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did. Beneficiaries are, as a matter of fact, victims of capitalism. These guys are victims only of their own actions.
Compassion isn't something that you should give out without thought to the consequences of your actions. Letting these people break the law for compassion is going to have everyone else demanding that we break the law for them as well because doing so is compassionate.
"Beneficiaries don't do what these selfish dweebs did."
From a right wing perspective that's not true. Next time they are in power, they will do this same shit all over again. I'd prefer it if the left didn't run lines that uphold that position (the deserving poor and the undeserving poor).
I think you have misunderstood. They broke the law and should be dealt with by the law accordingly. Compassion is about how we interact with what they did and work with nuance and context. Compassion will lead to better quarantine processes eg the MoH upping its game around its bureaucracy, or hotels providing better access to smoking areas or alcohol. Making Q better means people will be more likely to comply. Compassion serves society as well as the individual, it's not a position of endorsing problematic behaviour. We can offer compassion to people we disagree with or whose actions are wrong. There is a difference between the person and what they did.
here's another way to think about it. When someone commits a crime and is charged and taken to court and found guilty, the judge has discretion about sentencing, based on mitigating factors. This is compassion of a kind. It says that it's not black and white, but that context matters. There are of course all sorts of problems with how that gets applied, but the basic principle of not saying that everyone person who escapes Q should be imprisoned for 5 years or whatever is important.
The right-wing are, inevitably, wrong. Especially when you realise that their entire purpose for being in power is to rip off the country and that the beneficiary bashing is there as a distraction from their theft.
At no point have I said or implied that. These people aren't poor so obviously such a statement does not apply.
No, its not.
Again, I must tell you to stop using words as if their meaning is what you want it to be.
No, it won't. Better processes will.
Yes, there is but that statement has no meaning in context. What they did is the issue – not them.
The context in which their actions took place is where compassion can arise.
No, not really. In context its:
Their dad died, oh dear, how sad, never mind.
I don't have any compassion for any one who wilfully endangers others just because they feel hurt.
Draco T Bastard
For Gallirallus' Clarity and to add to your definition of compassion
"the deserving poor and the undeserving poor " as uncited by the esteemed weka, is
referenced to original source – The Poor Act 1552 where Church Parishes kept registers of the poor and enacted powers they were given to, (among other powers) deem who was poor. This was not right wing politics nor left wing politics.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack.
Then to be accurate when adding the plagiarised phrase of "the deserving poor and the undeserving poor ", it is further referenced to "The Poor Act of 1555" ( as a means to help enforce "The Poor Act 1952); whereby this law was passed by Queen Mary 1 requiring certain beggars to wear badges to identify types of poor that citizens in passing by ( not the Crown) should or should NOT give money to.
The poor could be found on the left or right of a street.
The English Poor Law 1531-1782 59–60 (1990). Paul Slack. Access through Waikato University database.
The political terms to be bandied around, Left and Right were first thought to have originated during the French Revolution ( 1789 – 1799) originally referring to seating arrangements in the French parliament: those who sat to the right of the chair of the then parliamentary president. These two sides of the room were grouped as Monarchists and Republicans. ( Right wing in modern times).
Knapp, Andrew. Wright, Vincent. The government and politics of France. New York: Routledge, 2001.
The people of English-speaking countries did not apply the terms right and left to their own politics until the 20th century. The English Ideology: Studies in the Language of Victorian Politics, George Watson Allen Lane, London, 1973, p. 94.
[the problem you have now is that you’ve got weka’s attention as a moderator in bold. Biggest mistake people make here is thinking that moderators want to spend their time on stupid arguments about moderation. If I have to keep reading your comments to see if you are stepping over a line, then I can tell you that at this point in the election cycle my patience will wear thin very quickly. You’ve now been warned – weka]
In other words DTB, you're right, compassion is subjective . No one gives a fuck if it doesn't reward themselves.I better cite that too. https://genius.com/Eminem-white-america-lyrics
Nonsense. The children lost their father and were desperate to say their farewells. Instead, they were detained in distanced isolation.
How many people did they endanger given that they had returned negative tests and were wearing facemasks? Four of them didn’t get very far at all but the risk to the NZ population was immeasurable?
This is simply another case where (negative) emotions trump everything else.
– false negatives are a thing
– they were detained in managed isolation due to them coming back to NZ not send to an island in the middle of nowhere
– they knew that they were going to be send to managed isolation upon arrival in NZ, they knew it would take two weeks.
– they managed to endanger everyone they came in contact with, mask while helpful in preventing spread of the droplets are not a get out of prison card – and everyone in NZ is lucky that their negative test was a correct result
– have you got proof that they wore their masks at all times or are we on their word
– four of them got somewhere another one got further, how many people did they interact with while out and about?
– everyone of these that they interacted with could have potentially been infected, gone home to infect their whanau, gotten up the next day to work and spread it some more there and so on and so on – luckily they all got lucky, inclusive the coppers who were send to find them
Also this might actually be the most important point.
1 hour and 45 minutes …….and they gave no fucks about NZ, you me or anyone.
Your 1 hour and 45 mins is predicated on the state not failing to meet it's own deadline. Something it had already done several times.
Also that hindsight you are using is 20/20 vision. Not something available to this family at the time.
What was available to the family at the time was that they knew that they weren't allowed out.
What's so hard to understand about that?
We are either serious with protecting the country from the Virus and Covid – 19 or we are not.
Full stop.
There currently is an active case in Rotorua. Maybe that person too has a good and valid reason to run away?
We have been more then once now lucky with people breaking quarantine. And it literally takes only one person to bring the country back into lockdown 4,
so yeah, they should have waited until given permission. They choose not to. And with that decision they choose to endanger anyone they met on their way. And anyone who was met by Mum and her four kids was lucky that they were indeed not afflicted with this disease. LUCKY. Not safe at home. But Lucky that these guys did not carry the virus and infected everyone on their path.
And?
This may come as a surprise but that's not our problem. Having a pandemic is.
Yes – pandemic.
Yes. That's why they were in isolation.
Nope. Simply logic and what is required of us when there's a pandemic happening.
Nope.
Yep. The emotions are plentiful: "Fuck ’em." "Fuck her."
And?
You are a great commenter but I am convinced this family’s decision to break out of quarantine was completely wrong and they should have to face the consequences of that decision regardless of circumstance.
The media intent on padding their story can shove it.
Honestly, I’d let this go. It was just another breakout until today when some dipshit decided to sympathetically interview her sob story for the clicks. Now I am completely mad about it.
Great job RNZ, you fucking idiots.
It's late.
Time for bed.
Nighty night.
100% draco…………I have no sympathy for anyone absconding, whatever their circumstances
Nope, simplistic ‘logic’. Logic would dictate to take all circumstances into account and the different PoVs. To refuse so is to deny reality. I wonder what the judge’s view is; maybe another hardliner …
They didn't need to go to the funeral.
They didn't need to see the body.
Society did need them in quarantine to help protect from a deadly disease so that we didn't have so many more funerals.
Thanks DTB about your consideration, but as one of the 'others' I don't jump in with selfishness as my judgment. You could try not to be selfish and hardlining yourself. This is a world-shaking time, and death is world-shaking to the individual and family. So with practicality in mind at all times, allowing a little compassion to creep in is the difference between living among humans, and living among humans who have had ideas implanted in their brains somewhow, and who can no longer think like a human. Don't please let that happen to you DTB!
Death happens. Its as much a part of life as being born. They're going to feel sorry for themselves because of their loss but they really didn't need to get to the body or even the funeral.
Quarantine, on the other hand, is there to protect others from a deadly disease and is necessary.
I don't think like you so I'm not human?
See, this is the othering that has become endemic in the Left over the last few decades and is most obvious/odious in identity politics.
DTB I was just hoping that you hadn't lost touch with your human identity not all the other isms and shades that have arisen. But you put on the breastplate of righteousness when you advance anti-capitalism and apparently are also anti everything else that people might be fond of. I didn't realise how far the anti-thing had gone in you; you need an antidote I think. What about offering to dress up as Santa for Christmas. Sweet!
I am one of those who has made judgemental comments about absconders. Nothing has changed my mind about this woman's actions including that they were wearing masks.
I have compassion for anyone experiencing loss, especially in Covid situations. But to abscond from isolation shows a self interest/sense of entitlement that puts an individuals needs above the greater good. She must have known that in coming to NZ there was no guarantee of getting compassionate leave. Saying that the state has let her down really annoys me. During a pandemic it is not "the States" job to ensure her kids get to see their fathers body. What risk was she putting her children at, scaling a big fence in the dark? risking arrest and a court appearance? How did this help her children.
I feel exasperated that people don't accept we are in a pandemic and behalf accordingly. IMHO her kids would have been better off to stay in Oz and grieve peacefully together at home…………
I don't disagree with too much there anker. The only thing I would say is that people aren't rational during intense grief. We have the grief associated with covid and the changes to our lives and society and future (not many are talking about this) and yep, some people are taking longer to adjust than others. Not being able to say goodbye to loved ones is going to hit some harder than others. So on top of the 'should be adjusting' they're also in acute grief from someone close to them having died suddenly. That's shock and pain and disbelief and anger, you bet that some people will make poor decisions at such a time.
The compassion is understanding that whatever we think people should do, often there are reasons why they don't.
Like I said, the judgements I have seen remind me of bene bashing. It reminds me of how the right and even some on the left treated Turei. We can still disagree with what someone has done while understanding why they did it. There are all sorts of ways to rationalise not offering that understanding.
That dicking around call you in an hour kicking the can down the road crap is just so DHB.
Especially when it sounds like all the other ducks were in a row: police, security military, transport…
The DHB got into a mighty amount of trouble in the media when the two English women were given compassionate leave to travel to Wellington. This likely means they are extremely cautious about granting leave now and exercise a supreme amount of care. So I am not sure kicking the can down the road is necessarily true
Re the link: It shows how easy it is to pass judgement without knowing the facts of a case. We are all guilty of doing it from time to time but some are far more guilty than others.
I've just had the sad experience of having to listen to younger judgmental relatives running down Maori and others of a minority persuasion. It's the trend you see of the upwardly mobile, and those who want to believe they are superior beings to others.
Sad and true, Anne – and still widely prevalent. They seem to dig their heels in instead of opening their minds..
The facts are that the woman absconded from isolation…………If you think there are extenuating circumstances that make that o.k. for some, then I hear that is your point of view.
I don't think there are any circumstances that make it o.k. to abscond from isolation. That is a very strong view I hold. Its a pandemic. We need to do everything to ensure the virus is kept out. That means really tight rules.
BTW my own family circumstances will likely mean I am adversely effected re seeing seriously ill loved ones overseas. But I accept this is the world we live in
Re the Heron report, I wonder if Woodhouse is annoyed with himself, all he would have had to do was say "no" if asked had he received the email from Boag & that would have been "good enough". Heron asked Boag did she send the email to anyone else & she said "no", Heron took her at her word. We pay him for that? Anyone could have got that result. Though, the Privacy Commissioner is still looking at it.
Perhaps Woodhouse gained his copies from someone other than Boag.
That is not what an investigator doing their job does – ever.
Someone fire him and ask for our money back.
Reading between the lines Labour is going very softly on the opposition at the moment. JA is serene and Hipkins is going in to bat for our very own Hitler youth.
There's a real sense of purpose in rising above the problems of their opponents and not getting involved.
Will the privacy commissioner check to see if Boag sent the email to anyone else?
If this is not going to happen, not good enough.
I don't think the Heron report was all that bad. It's essentially a fire service response: make sure the thing ain't still burning.
The privacy commissioner will do their review and I hope they throw the book at Boag in particular. If there's no book for them to throw, the MoH has hit the ARHT with a breach of contract notice, so that will make life fucky for them until they figure out how to stop a CEO telling people to send them patient data. But part of that might involve pursuing civil or criminal legal proceedings against employees apparently responsible for redirecting intellectual property into their personal possesssion instead of the Trust's. Which is a lovely thought.
Don't cart his kids off to Australia in the first place?
Hardliner I'm picking there, my sooty friend.
When you import people from Australia you are importing a much slacker attitude to Covid-19.
Imagine if everyone who came here for a funeral did this. We'd look like Victoria within two weeks.
They had 700 new cases today and 87 vulnerable people have died in Australia since they ‘beat’ the virus. That is fast approaching double their initial Covid deaths with only worse to come.
We’d be Melbourne x5 because of our weather and extremely poor housing in vulnerable communities.
Too much is at stake and I am genuinely surprised there is any sympathy for this woman here.
Fuck ’em.
Did you listen to her?
Nope. And I won't. Surprised she gets the air time, frankly.
Rightio.
100% Muttonbird
Elsewhere I have said the initial breach was annoying but the pimping of her case by RNZ and now some Standard faithful has got me really upset.
Ok, this is getting a little nasty; do you know what pimping means?
Of course I know what pimping means. I will retract if you order me to do so.
Like I say, this case had disappeared into the many cases of quarantine absconding until the media and some comments here re-highlighted it.
IMHO, accusing “some Standard faithful” of “pimping of her case” was misplaced. If you need to be ‘ordered’ to retract it means you think it was ok to make it personal with a most dubious statement 🙁
When those five people absconded, how “many cases of quarantine absconding” in total had there been here?
Well, I suppose that depends upon when they left and if they expected him to suddenly die at the time.
You're going soft on me Draco…
when you move overseas permanently, one of the things that will come to your mind is your death….the one of your elders for example.
I flew home when my mother was very ill with cancer, i arrived two hours short. I knew when marrying my kiwi husband and moving here that that would be a thing that could happen, that one day i would get a call that said so and so is ill, dying come now.
And sometimes we arrive in time and get to say good bye, and sometimes we don't. Btw, the only reason i was able to attend the funeral of my mum two weeks later was because the person from the funeral liased with the police to release the body of my mother faster then usual as i only had three weeks to stay at home. My mum passed away at home and by law there needs to be a autopsy to verify that she died of natural causes – in her case cancer, rather then say an opiod overdose.
So frankly that is a bullshit excuse. You don't generally expect anyone other then really old people to just die, but it happens. And you either live close enough to never miss a family death/funeral or you don't and then you accept that maybe you come to late.
If I have read you right, the subtle difference here is that the body was organised to be brought to Hamilton, to an appropriate facility.
The family would have a brief time with him, return to isolation, and the body goes back to Auckland for the 10.30 tangi.
the problem was that they could not wait until the final decision was made.
1 hour and 45 minutes – and they CHOOSE not to wait.
If it had been refused then, maybe i can find it in my heart to understand them. But they DID NOT WAIT. And that is what people are right fully upset about.
We know too little about this virus and the illnesses that it brings forth, we have the mess of the US / OZ / England / France /Spain / Italy to look at if we want to know how bad it can get. We might want to keep that in mind.
Well, yeah.
My point was that leaving wasn't the problem – it was the expecting everything to be the same after the pandemic hit.
Don/t have kids would be the final solution Muttonbird. So much easier and cuts complexity right down so one can see one's path straight and clear. And further don't have a partner or friend that makes life complex too.
Oh gsays it is boiling.
I'm releasing another Inquiry report just for you.
‐——–
"Inquiry report by Howard .I. Know QC
Because Mr.Hamish Walker and Ms. Michelle Boag have admitted their guilt, I surmise the following-:
1. By admission of their guilt the Inquiry will peruse the Evidence. At this level of jurisdiction, in my official power to make legal decisions and judgements, I called upon Ms. Boag and Mr. Walker to submit The Evidence.
2. Mr.Walker admitting a terrible mistake, was distressed and feeling picked on. He did not involve anyone else that mattered to this inquiry but Ms.Boag.
3. Ms. Boag was a number of a party who became a recipient of a highly confidential email from inept Health Ministry staff.
4. Because of the aforementioned admissions to the public later, no other persons are sequestered nor any computer databases sought.
Conclusion:
Along with privacy obligations written clearly on emails, I find the Ministry of Health should have encrypted their communications.
The two persons admitted their mistakes therefore I will pass this matter on to the Privacy Commission. I hope in that time that no other contextual data for evidence will be wiped. "
Signed H.I.KnowQC ".
‐——————-
Now for my invoice …..
I was wondering if Boag's maiden name was Heron…
This selfish woman had no concern for the safety and well being other people, and we’re supposed to do what after listening to her wee sob story?
Feel badly for her?
I don't fucking think so.
Did you listen to the interview?
Yup. She's special so she thinks she's entitled to put her own interests ahead of others. Fuck her.
That doesn't really reconcile with them all wearing their masks.
Yeah, it really actually does.
That's okay, then.
/
https://www.lexico.com/definition/special_pleading
Please expand?
You're citing an exception to the principle that doing a runner from quarantine is selfish and self serving.
Ta.
I figure when the clock is ticking, and the PTB are dragging their heels, there comes a time when you have to think and act for your family and self.
Because your family and self are special …..right?
/
You're engaging in logical fallacies to support an unsupportable position.
Really at the start of this, compassion arose after hearing Mum's version.
Not that what the family did was tickety-boo.
I went from being a gentle hardliner to a softer position when I had a fuller picture of goings on.
That's more of that special pleading.
She could release a statement on Hateful Comments Toward the Selfish Escapees from Quarantine Community.
https://twitter.com/russdiamond/status/1288488309816254469
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Communication could have been a lot better when it came to giving the mother a decision on seeing the body or not seeing the body.
Not only is the family dealing with a close death, the family need to remain in NZ until September for sentencing.
I would Iike to see the mother recieve a compassionate sentence and for counselling support to be given to the family as their situation could have been managed better than it was.
The pandemic is such, that it is separating people at a very differcult time and this is overwhelming for children when loss of a parent has occurred.
This psycho woman needs to be billed for her and her kids' stay according to the new rules, after they get out of prison. Then they should be shipped back to Queensland where they belong.
Jeez, I trust you are just an anonymous keyboard warrior with no actual authority.
I have zero authority. Just an NZ citizen like you. She jimmied a window and broke out 5 people during the most dangerous pandemic in 100 years.
Ship her and her kids back to Queensland. That’s the life they chose.
I was mildly upset by the initial breach but I’m now wild at the sympathetic framing by RNZ and now some commenters on this forum.
Could be worse, you could be sick to death!
I, and my family of four are fine, thanks.
Full sport for them, nine engagements per week plus full academic classes uninterrupted.
Unlike Melbourne which has been forced back into an ill-considered L3 lockdown. No kids’ sport. It should be an Australia wide L4 lockdown.
This Queensland woman and her family jearpordised my family’s sacrifice and hundreds of thousands of other families like mine.
She can go back to AUS anytime and NZ will be much better off.
Of course, you are, because if you were dead like the father of those children, you wouldn’t be commenting here, would you, and your family would not be fine, would they? I have experienced a similar situation myself and I would not wish that upon anybody else, least of all on children.
I’m sure that family of five will be all right too, once they have done their time here and been kicked out of NZ. They’re obviously undesirables and unwanted in this lovely country that is ours and ours only.
Bizarre response, but ok then.
When I said “sick to death”, I was referring to your self-confessed emotional state regarding the mother and her four children and the commentary you’d been reading. It was also a reference to the melodramatic outburst by Judith Collins claiming “I’m sick to death of this stuff” about the Behrouz Boochani situation.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/judith-collins-plans-to-grill-jacinda-ardern-on-behrouz-boochani-s-refugee-status.html
Media and politicians love to play on and play up the emotive side of things.
Because that was all that was available? You may not have noticed but we don't have unlimited space.
Not it really couldn't have been.
You're here, the body's there. So, no, you can't see it.
Not hard, not complex and that's what she was told.
No. She wouldn't receiving a sentence if she'd just waited. And I'm pretty sure their situation was managed as well as it could be. Its not the people managing isolation that are wrong here – they are.
Yeah, shit happens. This does not allow for special cases.
Agree 100% Draco and Muttonbird
I read your comments.
The situation was not handled as well as it could have been. Had the family been assigned a person who had the right skills to manage the families grief, their anxiety could have been reduced or fully KNOWN. Fight or flight response probably occurred due to the intensity of the situation for the family.
Isolation is required for 14 days to prevent community transmission. This does not mean that the body could not have been taken to a room where the family were staying.
There are so many ways in which Covid-19 can escape from isolation that any day this could happen.
I REPEAT "the situation was not handled as well as it could have been."
Do not make the mistake of blaming the mother for other people pissing her about and not emotionally supporting her when she was having a crisis moment.
Yes, it was. Was it handled perfectly – no. It a quarantine situation there has to be give and take on both sides. This woman didn't give any.
I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her own damn emotions.
Your logical fallacy of the day is: Appeal to Emotion
"I'm not blaming her for that. I'm blaming her for breaking quarantine because she couldn't control her damn emotions."
Her emotions were not being anticipated and they needed to be as there was a crisis unfolding.
Did anyone consider that the mother could try and escape and to prevent this?
And
How would you have prevented an escape?
Why was the family put in Hamilton when the body was in Auckland?
Finally! Someone asks the right question.
it may have something to do with a constrained capacity and the need to keep different cohorts separated and together in those limited facilities….Hamilton was prepared for that flight.
7000 individuals needs are difficult to cater for to the nth degree
Granted, this is a difficult situation and it is near impossible to meet everyone's expectations.
But, I assume this family made their situation clear to Whoever Was In Charge…to the point They seriously considered trucking the Deceased from Auckland to Hamilton to facilitate a viewing…why the hell could They not have injected a bit of flexibility into their system?
Perhaps a small van and a couple of driver/minders could have taken this whanau up the Expressway to say their private goodbyes? Four hours max….and they would have been back in their isolation digs by the time the bureaucrats had made their minds up.
And of course this could have be done safely…in the same manner they were trucked from Auckland to Hamilton in the first place.
On one hand I get folks are scared and angry that these 'selfish people put the lives of all at risk with their unreasonable demands', but on the other I have personal experience with MOH bureaucrats and have found them not overburdened with decision making abilities. Delay is their favourite tactic, common sense is a foreign concept.
Seriously…kindness and common sense would have gone a long way towards mitigating this particular shit-show.
The "real question" is what would YOU have done in the same circumstances, and why.
ie, would you have waited for conformation to be able to leave with permission.
or
Would you have broken out, knowingly breaking the Law.
This applies to all sides of the argument.
What would You have done?
I would have assessed the grief and anxiety that the mother had and then I would have supported her and the children until a decision was made. And were the decision to have been not seeing the body, I would have done everything I could knowing that there were limits.
Appearing in court probably was a blur and may of not been appropriate.
Lack of management grasping the situation was the main problem.
Treetop
Your arguing after the fact.
Was anyone in the quarantine facility even aware of the emotional distress the family were in?
If the answer is No, then difficult to provide care.
Is there a process for the returnees to access?
In these circumstances, of having to attend a funeral, if not, maybe a more robust system is required to acknowledge the potential risks, the system isn't geared towards people with anguish and anxiety from a loved one passing away.
They were awaiting a response to be delivered only a short time after they escaped.
Maybe this is a learning curve for the Border Quarantine managers, and has highlighted a deficiency in the system that deserves more consideration.
Nope, that is a distraction and a diversion towards a hypothetical situation and thus not the “real question” at all, IMO. We know what happened, more or less, and we need to understand it before we can make a sensible judgement about this particular case, if we feel inclined to do so. They have admitted the breach so that’s not in question.
Hypothetical
Because you're not sure what your own response might be if you were placed in the same circumstances?
Would you have raised a flag, asked for more assistance, or forced a window to escape?
My hypothetical is whether this particular family, knowing what they know now (and what some suggest they knew then, e.g. that their application was receiving favourable consideration), including the prospect of a sympathetic 20-minute interview on RNZ, and the charges and potential penalties they face, would do anything differently. I hope that they would, for everyone's sake – if they wouldn't then some things need to change, e.g. more focused help and advice for those experiencing unusually high levels of stress.
When large numbers of people (by NZ standards) find themselves in (stressful) circumstances that carry an unusual health risk (to themselves and/or others), then any hint that the rules governing those circumstances are flexible is asking for trouble. We saw this in lockdown (heck, the Minister of Health ultimately lost his portfolio because of poor judgement over his movements), and I'd suggest that we'll see more of it if the idea that you can ‘have a go‘ at breaching border quarantine without significant consequences gains traction.
Patients is a rare human trait.
Emotional greif clouds peoples judgment.
Border Quarantine is there to protect every NZer.
We need to learn from these experiences and make adjustments accordingly.
The Wespac helicopter could have flowen the body to Hamilton and returned by van.
The details would need to have been managed carefully and agreed by the mother. A person can only make an informed decision when they have all the details.
Common sense was required and not politics or an unnecessary delay in making a decision.
Not to sure but culturally the body is not removed at night. So cultural awareness was lacking.
Because its quarantine.
And then we'd have thousands of people demanding the same bloody thing with an inevitable loss of quarantine.
No, it wouldn't. The breaking of quarantine is inherently not safe.
Common sense is a fallacy being neither common nor sense.
What would have easily mitigated this shit show was a stupid, selfish person not breaking quarantine.
the woman was put in Hamilton because quarantine places are limited and Hamilton must have been the place they could accommodate her family. FFS this isn't a holiday we are offering people. Go where you are sent, because the priority is keeping NZders safe
I have sympathy for her predicament but … she appears to have no comprehension of the catastrophe she could have caused … and the first people impacted would have been her own whanau.
In her radio interview, rather than apologizing for her actions, she just tried to vindicate them by blaming everyone else.
Everyone seemed to be bending over backwards to give her what she wanted (at no cost to her from what I can tell) but because it wasn't on her timetable she decided that noone but herself mattered.
You spoke to soon about any reaction. Your topic of the mother's interview gave some strong views.
Wow to the response.
Seems having more money than dog makes you stupid.
https://twitter.com/sarahcpr/status/1288521738641342473
what interests me about that story is not that Madonna did something stupid, but the number of liberals who are believing the Frontline Doctors propaganda, despite the known connections to pro-fascist right. That group of otherwise progressive people is growing, and they're a dangerous mix of libertarianism, poor science literacy, and apolitical world views.
More important to them than left/right is concern about the government and authority. The left really needs to stop ridiculing them, and remember how radicalisation works. In NZ we still have the chance to create a better culture than in the US, but that window won't be open for long and the right are actively promoting politics that takes advantage of the disaffection.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/jul/29/madonnas-instagram-flagged-for-spreading-coronavirus-misinformation
Lost eyes all over the shop….
https://twitter.com/RachelBitecofer/status/1288615177643003911