Dirty Filthy Red Herring
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- Date published:
10:54 am, September 1st, 2014 - 105 comments
Categories: john key, Judith Collins, Media -
Tags: collins, dirty politics, key
So Judith Collins is gone. But she’s gone on the flimsy basis that Cameron Slater mentioned her in an email. She isn’t gone because of any revelations contained in Nicky Hagers’ book. I’m picking that Cameron Slater was indeed just ‘talking up a big game’ and leveraging off her name in that email. In other words, I’m picking that Collins had bugger all to do with any campaign against Adam Feeley, and that and all the Hotchin stuff was ‘Whale’ and ‘Cactus’ essentially ‘freelancing’. And I’m picking that Key knows that.
So now Key runs some inquiry. Collins is vindicated. Key gets to suggest that as Collins didn’t do ‘a’ as claimed in an email by Cameron Slater, then it follows that Collins also did not do ‘b’, ‘c’ or ‘d’ as claimed on the basis of other emails from the same Cameron Slater. In other words, he gets a shot at reinforcing any doubt he has already cast with regards the substance of the allegations in ‘Dirty Politics’
I don’t think it will work. But even so, Key gets to slip off the hook and National get to improve their re-election prospects to the extent that any distractions to do with Collins or who-ever get pursued. So I find myself hoping that people and media stay focussed and don’t go off chasing filthy red herrings. The big fish is sitting ‘over there’. And the big fish only gets snagged by dint of the revelations around the release of that IOA on Goff. And that relies on the extent to which the substantive revelations in Hagers book are pursued and followed through on.
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I agree.
He also has iain rennie saying collins was always positive about feeley.
Key is only do an enquiry on this narrow point cos he knows the deck is stacked in his favour.
Leaking a name for public bullying, and the rachel pullar stuff, knowing police evidence was being wrongly released and doing nothung, are much bigger things
Mike Williams, fwiw, said this morning that convention or rules (he was unclear) dictate that the govt can’t do anything at this time without support from the other parties (something like that), and thus Key would need to run an inquiry that the opposition agreed to. Does that make any kind of sense?
Mai Chen said pretty much the same thing on MR.
Actually she thinks it should wait until after the election, but if it is to be done now, then it should be at arms length from the government which means a Royal Commission, because any other type of inquiry would allow the government to sack the person carrying it out, as well as set the terms of reference.
Yes Mai Chen said all that to a tee, and a totally independent Judge should be overseeing the while process, and judiciary must be used to mange the event correctly. ( a royal commission enquiry) .
Yes. And it is unheard of to cobble together terms of reference in two days.
It is just plainly wrong and deeply repugnant to engineer a stunt by instigating an inquiry when we are 2 days away from the start of advance voting and only14 working days to go before Polling Day.
This far in during the Pre-Election Period (we are almost on the eve of the voting period!!!) and a political party in government is using public officials to set up a ruse to exculpate the party’s politicians?
This is just so very very wrong.
Looks like anything that can be done to bury this, is being done. Unfortunately I have no faith in the MSM. They will just be like little puppies wanting a pat on the head for doing a good job.
“I’m picking that Collins had bugger all to do with any campaign against Adam Feeley”
Stuff.co.nz is reporting that Collins released an OIA to embarrass Feeley in record time of 2 days. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10444702/Judith-Collins-office-made-haste-on-OIA
Definitely smoke here.
Dimpost has an article on it: http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/new-shit-has-come-to-light/
“Definitely smoke here.”
I agree, and I think Bill is right too. The focus needs to be kept on Key, as PM. So everything about the SFO issue needs to be brought back to him. And reminding everyone about the SIS issue.
Key is so slippery he is Teflon, and is still trying a Houdini
I don’t think she had much to do with the campaign. But she is definitely complicit in the early release of the OIA’s.
Being aware of the campaign, and then expediting the release of something that would embarrass him, when she is the minister in charge, makes her part of the campaign.
The Jackal has it sussed – see in Other Posts column.
Cant disagree with that column Anne
If that was the correct post I just read, I’d have to disagree with where attempts are made to tie what Cactus and Whale were doing to Collins and Key. As I say in the post, in this instance they were acting alone (so far, that’s confirmed by the latest ‘whaledump’) and not as a part of the PM offices’ smear team or any smear/black ops connected to Nat Party stuff.
That can’t be emphasised enough insofar as this whole pile of shit is being put out there to vindicate Collins and undermine allegations made in Hagers’ ‘Dirty Politics’.
But the point is Bill, Key has not moved to distance himself from the kind of behaviour slater and odgers indulge in. Thats tacit approval. From a PM! its more than unseemly.
“As I say in the post, in this instance they were acting alone (so far, that’s confirmed by the latest ‘whaledump’) and not as a part of the PM offices’ smear team or any smear/black ops connected to Nat Party stuff.”
Are you suggesting that there should be no investigation into Collins’ involvement (or non-involvement)? Are you that sure? Why?
Yes, I’m that sure. Call it a hunch. Have the investigation though. But be aware that it’s ‘a have’ in relation to any National Party involvement (there is none) and a ploy to make them look kinda okay in the public eye. And see that scurrilous Hager bloke…?
Red Herring in this instance is another description for subverting the course of justice. John Key et al should be held accountable under section 116 of the Crimes ACT.
Cunliffe is correct in proposing the ninth floor be treated as a crime scene.
Bingo! ding dong the donkey is dead.
Yeah,
I think it highly likely that Cactus Kate was being supremely loyal to the right in handing over that email. She didn’t want to do more damage. I think this is a clever stunt. I’d love to be proved wrong.
I think this gambit of Slater’s to complain about Key to the Privacy commissioner is also damage control for the interests of the right. Make it look like he’s gunning for th PM, but lo – no new evidence comes to light.
Don’t know what the hell is going on with Hooten though.
He was on the verge of tears in his rant yesterday and it’s almost impossible to feign that kind of emotion.
I agree that the left needs to keep its eye on the ball and guard against being manipulated.
“He was on the verge of tears in his rant yesterday and it’s almost impossible to feign that kind of emotion.”
Except where you believe your own bullshit. Hooton, master at mixing his spin with enough truth to seem credible.
I have a comment in moderation which says much the same thing, Weka.
I don’t know why I’m going into moderation so frequently. I’m trying to be more “regular” in my punctuation.
That punctuation problem is supposed to be fixed.
Did you misspell hooton, that puts you into moderation
Yeah, limit your punctuated diet and you will have more regular vowel motion on The Standard.
(ok, this is baaad [dot] [dot] [dot] [dot])
Punctuation bug is fixed. More likely it’s just the regular kind of random moderation (ie not related to content), or mispelling Hooton’s name.
Hooten Had me fooled.
I agree. This entire past weekend has stunk of damage control the moment Key opened his mouth on Saturday morning. Anyone, especially journalists who buys into a “leaked” email (out of the ninth floor of the Beehive?) should consider a new career taking orders at a drive through fast food joint.
Bear in mind the prime ministers office got odgers email on wednesday. Key didnt “see” it til friday… But joyce was awol last week, strategising?
At some point key is either a liar or incredibly derelict when it comes to what happens at the prime ministers office. He cant have it both ways.
Joyce is resurrected on TV3 news this morning .. his mouth was moving, so you know the rest !
Thats what made me notice hus total absence from weds last week… I didnt watch him this mrning but expect he bag left blogs and smirked and had to suppress a laugh at some stage
He was just on about how Hager’s book had not disclosed anything of significance – the email that caused Collins to resign had nothing to do with the book. Basically dissing the book, and all about the government being all cool and positive, for the future…. etc, etc.
Glad i saved myself, sorry for you though.
Sadly the big flaw is the emails that floored collins are the same players in Hagers book.
No wonder the right dont want to read it
Glad I didn’t see it he gives me the creeps, remember Grant Robinson/Joyce debate?
Tracey .. I think we only know about Wednesday receipt of email via Hooton and no other source ?
I never saw it. Just heard a rumour about it
Machiavellian Henchman
Yeah Right where’s Ansell now!
You have no connection to ACT or Odgers!
Matthew you have been caught up in your own Spin
Nek minute you think Key is up to his Eyeballs
Now Key has nothing to do with it!
Shonkey pythons Lying Circus!
And repeated it, and did interviews on it…
So as usual Hooton, you spun like a top on the rumour.
Most of the Jonolists used by the MSM need that sort of career change.
Latest tweets from whaledump:
First tweet:
Second tweet:
Sounds like confirmation that we are being played yet again.
Hooten must be a gifted actor. Maybe he’s so used to bullshitting that when he’s in full-swing, he actually believes what he is trying to convey.
It’s worth remembering that most of the major players in this are deeply authoritarian, and they know better than most where the real power lies. When push comes to shove they must know that any and all utu will be paid back at a very high rate of interest over many years.
Do you know what Rawshark is referring to there? A specific statement from Hooton? I haven’t been following Hooton on twitter…
I don’t think it was a reference to anything said on Twitter, – looks more likely to be referring to Hooton on RNZ today.
the hotchins stuff wasnt in Hager’s book?
No.
or Q&A yesterday .. he was very vocal there.
On the face of it, though it’s hard to see how Whaledump could know that for sure. Whaledump’s statement that they had “nothing to do” with the email that was the purported cause of Collins’ sacking doesn’t directly state that they aren’t in possession of said email, but it does very strongly imply it. Assuming that, how can they know what rumours etc. may have been swirling?
If Whaledump had the email, he would have passed it to Nicky Hager (as Nicky believes he received all of the emails un-redacted or edited, not just some of them). If Hager had it, it would have been in his book. Wasn’t in his book, ergo Whaledump doesn’t have it. This gels with the fact that it was Odgers who sent the email to Fairfax. It’s unclear exactly what path it took to reach the PM’s office.
Looks like I’m wrong. From a commenter on the Dim post:
I don’t watch breakfast TV and hadn’t heard this from Hager.
http://dimpost.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/new-shit-has-come-to-light/#comment-120261
Thanks for this Lanth
Anytime Matthew Hooten says “I’ve been hearing rumours that blah blah,” grab yourself some grains of salt.
When I listened to that radio interview yesterday, I used up a whole bucket.
Funny that earlier this morning I had sent an email to a friend saying that on reflection, I thought that the Collins/Hanover thing is really just a ploy to find Collins innocent knowing that in this case she will be. She must be furious to be thus used but Key is no fool.
It may backfire however if the awakened media publish the probable feint.
Agree with Bill and above comments.
I recall watching Key announcing her resignation on Saturday. It struck me that he looked oddly upbeat and bouncy and that it didn’t really match the content of what he was saying. It was more like he was announcing some fun new policy.
One of the Q+A guests (maybe Hooten?) put it well when they said he looked like a guy who’d just been released from a hostage drama.
Smiling assassin.
Also I think he was just trying to distance himself from it, make like it was no big deal and wouldn’t affect the election etc.
and his faux hurt at colmar brunton showing 41% believe he did know about SIS OIA
Lanth. He has nothing to distance himself from in this instance! Neither he nor Collins had anything to do with any of it. What it will do (when it’s done and dusted) is give him a line in attempts to undermine anything and everything alleged in Dirty Politics…y’know?…so he can slip the hook and take off all smiling and waving.
Just out whaledump on Hotchin. Zip file for downloading.
Shows that money changed hands from Hotchin to Slater and Odgers at some point.
No surprise that Hotchin would do that and there’s still the line that Slater and Odgers were acting independently from Collins and Key. This is the connection that needs to be made.
Are you suggesting that people waste time seeking a link back to Collins and Key? Why? The whole point of the PM releasing the email pertaining to this, and Collins being so enthusiastic for an enquiry, is because there is no link.
So…names cleared, people rehabilitated and Hager (or so the hope must be) discredited by extension.
Key is repsonsible for the culture that allowed this to happen. I’m still not convinced that Collins had no involvement.
I don’t think it’s a waste of time to try to find out the truth, whatever that might be. There might not be any direct involvement by Collins but if it can be shown she knew of the operation that would be damning evidence that this government is negligent and dangerous.
Bill, why do you give Key so much credit?
He’s handled it badly and winged it and making massive tactical errors all the way.
I personally think he is grasping for any straw he can, buying anytime he can to get a breath before this epic kharmic shitstorm completely buries him.
Rather than downloading.
http://tricklenz.wordpress.com/2014/09/01/the-latest-whaledump-the-hotchin-files/
Have they been put in chronological order? Can’t see them clearly.
Thumbnails.
Thanks for that karol. Just had a quick look through for any mention of Judith Collins.
Surprisingly (sarc) …nothing, nada and zip.
You sound disappointed.
Nothing surprising about Slater though, stunned that Odgers would bother wasting her time in all this nonsense.
Why would I be disappointed? Did you read my post or just go straight to sticking your hand down your excited keyboard pants?
And yet you continue to visit his site, read and regurgitate. What a guy BM
I read his site, the guy’s a complete fuck wit though.
Slater has no shame, I reckon he would pimp out the lord of Darkness if his lordship paid enough.
Not a lot of ethics there.
And so you enable him and provide him with clicks to generate revenue. Grow a pair BM
Bygone Menace!
sounds like you have accepted that Nactional and its cronies have been caught red handed!
Key Slater Odgers may not be able to travel overseas soon as convictions may stop them gaining entry to Hawaii HongKong etc!
Maybe that’s why Slater shot through Israel final overseas trip!
In the first file (hanover is this it) is “Dad” a reference to doug graham or john slater, I wonder.
I cant see anything exciting amongst these.
John Slater was responsible for bringing Key into politics, is that right?
Tracey, I believe it was the dreaded Michele Boag who organised the cull of National MPs in the early 2000s and parachuted Key into his safe electorate seat – I think.
Sounds right. And who also organised it so that English would be a total fail at the 2002 election – goneburger.
Was I the only one to hear on National Radio comments by Hooten suggesting the PM’s office tried to get his company banned from undertaking a contract with CERA in Christchurch? Meddling directly in a commercial government contract because they had a snitch on the company boss? Is it just me, or is this a really serious matter? Or is this kind of behaviour just ‘how they roll’ in the Key administration?
Yes That sounds like what I heard too.
Yeah Hooton is on a bit of a mission at the moment. There’s more detail in the radiolive session from yesterday (link is in yesterday’s Open Mike I think). It’s not just the CERA one, there are others too apparently. Hard to know what Hooton’s play here is exactly, but I agree that on the face of it it’s a very serious accusation.
In spite of it all he’s still saying that National is a better choice for govt than Lab/Greens, and the Key is a good PM but he’s handled this badly. Which makes about zero sense to me.
It’s almost like he’s positioning himself to enter politics. New ACT leader? Or he’s just spinning himself hard as having nothing to do with these shameful events even though his fingerprints are in it.
“Which makes about zero sense to”
Probably because it’s complete nonsense 😉
Hooton is having a crisis of faith. He probably does believe in some level of ethics, and he obviously is a staunch rightie, but he now finds that he has no-one to vote for because all the right wing parties are ethic-less.
You are in interesting company weka. The Prime Minister also told the press gallery today that I am lying and that I have personal problems. I issued this press statement in response:http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1409/S00028/personal-statement-by-matthew-hooton.htm
I think the PM was referring to my decision to stop drinking two weeks ago. I will at least have an interesting story at CADS tomorrow!
It’s certainly making for interesting listening, Matthew.
What do you think of the use of Whaleoil, et al, by Key and his embracing the two track style politics that Lusk outlined?
Do you think it is morally unacceptable or are you ok with this ‘anything goes’ system that National have created?
Do you think the National Party is going to let you come in from the cold or something Matthew?
Reminds me of the story of the wannabe gang prospect. He asks if he can go in the pad and is told he has to pass the initiation first: he has to climb in a barrel of waste oil, which he does: he’s then informed that he’s not coming in the pad with that shit all over him.
Cheers Matthew. You’re covered in it 😆
Good analogy OAB.
Because Matthew sends out an invoice for every opinion he has, we just need to work out who’s paying for the latest utterances and all will make more sense. It could all be a bit of an ACT.
Ok listening to your bit on Radiolive now, it’s pretty clear you’re standing on your principles. Good on ya.
Michelle Boag sure is the ultimate political reptile!
Here’s the link for anyone interested in hearing the most honest, public, political words I’ve heard from any commentator ever.
http://www.thepaepae.com/matthew-hootons-assertions-re-the-prime-ministers-office/35076/#more-35076
Cheers Matthew, new found respect for you.
NOOOOooooo!
Whilst it was very enjoyable to hear Hooton rip into Boag (gee, they are really making Labour’s earlier internal tensions look like child’s play) please take care to be so quick to think Hooton is standing up for principles that you hold.
I’ve already shared my thoughts:
http://thestandard.org.nz/from-twitter/#comment-877337
I dont think he is standing up for principles that I hold, I think he is, to a certain extent, standing up for principles that he holds.
I dont agree with him, but I don’t put Hooton in the same category as Boag or the Slaters.
He is given to emotional outbursts and those have a quality of honesty that I don’t believe is faked. I could be wrong but I don’t think so.
By ‘principles you hold’ I was referring to things like sound democratic principles. Like complete distaste for corruption. It sounded like he didn’t like the corruption initially, yet the issue for him, I believe, is really about jeopardizing National’s chances of winning and some aspect of irritation about being sidelined.
After Hooton’s outburst, Boag and Hooton ended up arguing over strategy – not fixing the real corruption.
Looks like others have similar reservations to the ones I have.
http://thejackalman.blogspot.co.nz/2014/09/matthew-hootons-dirty-tactics.html
Yep, hey Matthew Hooten, can you enlarge on the Steven Joyce interference with your large roading contractor saga? Michelle Boag wouldn’t let you finish.
That would explain some of your manic behaviour!
Spinning out of control!
No more beersies with Johnny!
Brave move to come out no more work for anonymous a/holes!
AA meetings now time to reexamine how your high flying political spinning is effecting you!
Maybe a new career for helping political junkies recover from OD’s
Why do continue to defend John Key though?
You’re not seeing straight on that one. I think he’s tricked you with the same facade he’s tricked the rest of the country.
Was Hagers book a sobering thought a vector for change!
By the way Matthew now your not drinking it would pay to have a complete physical check up your breathlessness could be the sign of heart failure!
Their could be a psychological reason for your drinking addiction!
This is nothing to do with politics but just me reaching out because it takes real guts to come out and say you have given up alcohol!
Now the real work begins to stay off it!
I know I was a binge drinker back in the day 24 years ago I gave it away !
A roundup of yesterdays radio live rant.
http://ruminator.co.nz/is-the-prime-ministers-office-corrupt/
On the radio live link. He made I think three allegations of beehive meddling in govt procurement contracts and when Michelle Boag said “beehive is too general” he goes”that one was Steven Joyce’s office”.
The whole hour is unbelievable radio of Mathew Hooten & Michelle Boag having a go at each other and Duncan Garner making about one comment ‘don’t let me interrupt”. Frankly I’ve never heard anything like it.
Why is Rennie running lines on this? He should not have commented about Collins having a positive view of Feenet – it was for Key to defend her, not Rennie.
+1.
Such is the state of our Public Service leadership. It’s not just PSB that needs a bloody good shakeup, but SSC as well – they’ve been the ‘enablers’ of public service corporatisation and its politicisation and lack of accountability.
Great press release from the Greens:
More at:
https://home.greens.org.nz/press-releases/independent-royal-commission-inquiry-only-option-key
But as usual, TricKey being TricKey, will want to do it his way quick n quiet. Nothing to see here, move along. Backed up by his choir of Hooton Slater and Collins Armstrong Roughan and the rest of the bullshit MSM.
Why did Cathy Odgers send that letter/email to the beehive? And why does Key believe it?
Why?