Election Night Live Blogging: The Live Post
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7:30 pm, November 8th, 2008 - 195 comments
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7.01pm Ok here we go! I expect there won’t be too much to live blog for the first hour or so…
7.15pm Party vote currently: Nat 48%, Lab 32%, Greens 6%, NZF 4.4%, Act 3.3%, Maori 1.5%, Prog 1%, United 0.9%. Less than 4% counted.
7.24pm Party vote currently: Nat 49%, Lab 32%, Greens 6%, NZF 4.6%, Act 3.3%, Maori 1.8%, Prog 0.9%, UF 0.8%. Still less than 4% counted.
7.35pm In the pivotal electorates – Kaye ahead in Auckland Central, Wong in Botany, Wagner in Chch Central, MacIndoe in Ham W, Sio in Mangere, Bridges in Tauranga, Plimmer in PN, Hipkins in Rimutaka, Bennett in Waitakere, Robertson in Wel Central, Greensill in H-W, Horomia in I-R, Katene in TTT.
7.47pm With only 5.3% counted in Tauranga it isn’t looking that flash for Winston – Bridges has already got a margin of 1841.
7.54pm Party vote with 5.4% counted: Nat 49%, Lab 32%, Green 6.2%, Maori 2.2%, Act 3.3%, Prog 0.9%, UF 0.8%
8.07pm TVNZ is doing a news update thingy. Basically looks to me like justification for putting camera crews with each of the party leaders, although they were pretty pictures. Advanced and absentee votes are up a third on last election apparently.
8.14pm Looks like Botany isn’t going to be all that interesting – Pansy Wong has over 1800 and Kenneth Wang with 364, he’s not even second currently, with 6.5% counted.
8.18pm To be honest I find all the media projections of how many seats and what coalition arrangements at this stage really pointless. Sorry if that burst anyone’s bubble!
8.24pm Party vote with 11.5% counted: Nat 49%, Lab 31%, Greens 6.2%, Maori 2.1%, Act 3.4%, Progs 0.8%, UF 0.8%.
8.31pm Jordan Carter (who is a mate) has nearly double the number of votes of Roger Owen Douglas, which warms my heart a little.
8.34pm Ok I am going to take a brief pizza break. Let’s hope nothing interesting happens in the interim, but I’m sure you’ll all cope admirable if it does.
8.39pm I can report that That Ex-Expat makes fantastic pizza. Also, not looking good in Auckland Central for Tizard.
8.40pm Beaumont behind in Maungakiekie but not big time.
8.44pm Hughes definitely behind in Otaki, Auchinvole ahead by nearly 500 in WC-T, Bennett ahead in Waitakere but quite small count there so far?
8.45pm Party vote with 21.8% counted: Nat 48%, Lab 31%, Greens 6.3%, Act 3.5%, NZF 4.4%, Maori 2.2%, I think I’m going to stop with the Progs and UF unless they come up to 2nd MP territory. Kaye still ahead in Akl Central.
8.51pm Ham West looking bad for Labour, but Carter still beating Douglas! 😉 Mallard only slightly ahead in his seat, with 9% counted.
8.56pm WTF, Jonathan Young (Nat) is still ahead of Harry Duynhoven in New Plymouth!
8.57pm Taupo looks like it is gone to Louise Upston (Nat) and Bridges is now about 5000 ahead of Peters in Tauranga. Rick Barker also behind in Tukituki
8.59pm Robertson a little ahead of Franks in Wel Central.
9.00pm Looks like Steve Chadwick is gone in Rotorua, which is a shame because she’s been a very good local MP apparently. She’s over 2000 behind now, so that’s that probably. Wang still coming 3rd in Botany, by a margin, but Act’s party vote is holding up well (not that Wang’ll benefit, he’s not on the list)
9.05pm Wel Central close-ish, Robertson 200 ahead of Franks. Party vote with 37% counted Nat 48%, Lab 32%, Greens 6.4%, Act 3.6%, NZF 4.25%. Pillay back in front in Waitakere.
9.08pm Shipley on one of the telly stations, I’ve lost track of which one. One of my guests has pointed out she’s the only female PM to have lost an election to date, let’s hope that stays true, but it’s not looking that great right now.
9.11pm Duncan Garner didn’t have any sound at the Nats HQ, and we were all quite glad about that when he tapped Christine Rankin – argh! Sadly the sound is back now.
9.15pm Ok I’m going to take a few of my Pivotals off the watch list: Bridges is hugely ahead in Tauranga, Rotorua is gone to National, Mangere is solid for Labour’s Sio, Taupo has fallen to Upston (National), Wong is over 3000 ahead of the Labour candidate in Botany (Wang is third).
9.20pm Wellington Central is still surprisingly close…
9.21pm Otaki has tightened up hugely, 15-ish votes in it with nearly 50% counted! National candidate Young still ahead in New Plymouth, is Duynhoven on the list?
9.23pm Gap is closing a little between National and Labour. Really needs to be no more than 10% imho, currently 14%. Act’s vote holding up, Greens is well under the anticipated polling.
9.26pm Otaki widening out again with 51% counted. It’s looking like Otaki, WCT and Akl Central are going to be very tight.
9.27pm Some woman who sounds like Michelle Boag (but is not because Boag is on the other channel) is trying to talk up Auckland Central as a rock solid safe Labour seat, when National have in fact been talking for months about taking it, and everyone left-of-centre has been quietly worrying.
9.29pm Maungakiekie very close, 80 votes in it last I checked. Very slow count though.
9.31pm Duynhoven is still behind in New Plymouth, not a massive amount but quite big.
9.33pm Auckland Central still very close, has Tizard been in front at all though? Franks back ahead of Robertson with 51% counted, but again very tight.
9.35pm Labour now at 33%, National nearly down to 46%…
9.36pm National is definitely slowly sliding, Labour slowly gaining, and I note that some of the counts in the big South Auckland seats are very slow. Maungakiekie also very slow.
9.38pm Someone asked in comments about the importance of losing electorates for Labour – basically they clustered a whole lot of these marginal seats just below winnable on their list. So if they win the electorate (Chch Central, Auckland Central, Rimutaka, no doubt others) then that’s one less List MP, which potentially changes the shape of the caucus. It’s also a psychological thing I guess – National has not won Auckland Central in my memory.
9.40pm Here at my place we are all yelling our disapproval at the telly as John Boscawen comes on TV3. Urgh.
9.42pm Ok new list of marginals: New Plymouth, Waitakere, Maungakiekie, Akl Central, Chch Central, Wel Central, WC-T, Te Tai Tonga. The gap between Peter Dunne and Charles Chauvel in Ohariu is not actually huge either… Hughes still over 500 behind in Otaki, Lees-Galloway now over 500 ahead in PN, Labour candidate Hipkins nearly 500 ahead in Rimutaka (Ron Mark no where to be seen).
9.49pm I’m sure you all wanted to know this – the baby is sleeping soundly, snoring away, despite the noise from our place and a whole lot of fireworks outside. This result for the Greens is really disappointing. Either they have to come up a lot of the polls were just miles out.
9.50pm Te Tai Tonga is not looking great for Okeroa, Maori Party’s Angeline Greensill is over 300 ahead.
9.51pm National still going down and Labour still going up, but very very very slow. Which suggests this isn’t going to be like 2005. Must check the returns in the big South Auckland seats.
9.54pm National now under 46%, Labour over 33%…
9.55pm On current returns Greens looking at 2 new MPs (8 total) – Catherine Delahunty and Kevin Hague.
9.56pm John Campbell has just gone on about how fascinating Mangere is when Field is hugely behind Sio and it’s all over rover.
9.57pm Shawn Tan has now officially got more votes in Mt Roskill than I got in Epsom for the Alliance in 2002 😉
10.05pm The ex-expat has just explained to me that what John Campbell was just saying about swing votes means that National are further ahead at the moment than they were at the same in 2005. It’s good to have her interpreting.
10.06pm The big rural South Island seats are all finals now, all National, no surprises there.
10.07pm Now we’re all gossiping about student association people we have known, as we reflect on Chris Hipkins (ex VUWSA) looking safer in Rimutaka. New Plymouth only 200 votes in it, 97% counted. I’ve just checked and Duynhoven is not on the list so he could be gone. Which I guess is good for renewal!
10.12pm The ex-expat is working out who is likely to be out for Labour, definitely Dave Hereora at this time.
10.13pm Winston is on telly, I think he’s going to conceded Tauranga but not the party vote. He looks a bit toasted.
10.15pm Kaye is now over 1000 ahead in Auckland Central, looks like Tizard won’t make it on the list (although we are still doing the numbers). But my that Jordan Carter is still ahead of Roger Douglas in Hunua. Waaaaaaay behind Paul Hutchinson of course, and Douglas looks like he’ll get in on the list, but I’m trying to find a silver lining damnit!
10.18pm Winston has tears in his eyes, awwww! (I mean that sincerely, he reminds me of my Dad when he does that). He is so much less grumpy than usual on election night. Maybe losing agrees with him? What ever will he do next? “For a while we’ll be free now” he just said. I’m not sure who the “we” is. Looks like Winston is conceding the party vote too?
10.20pm New Plymouth has closed up again – National candidate is only 100 ahead. Winston has promised to rebuild and comeback. Arl has pointed out he should have done his “last word” with a sign 😉
10.24pm Labour is over 33.5% and National nearly down to 45.5%. Still closing too slowly. Dunne is back alone (but I think we knew that already really). NZF has fourth biggest party vote but isn’t back in Parliament.
10.26pm Rimutaka final gives Hipkins the seat, the counts in the big urban seats are significantly behind though, Pillay and Bennett going back and forth in Waitakere. Arl reckons Winston looks relieved. Reid Katene is still ahead in TTT. Final for Auckland Central gives it to Kaye by a bit under 2000 votes – Denise Roche (Greens candidate) got 3695.
10.29pm Tizard is out of Parliament, O’Connor could be too – at 37 on the Labour list and about 700 behind Auchinvole in WCT with 98% counted.
10.35pm Ok by our calculation based on the party vote at the moment, Labour’s list will get in to about no. 36 which is Stuart Nash. Carmel Sepuloni is no 35 and would be a fantastic MP, she should be in on this! O’Connor, Tizard, Burton, Okeroa, Gallagher, Hereora, Wall, Soper would be out in terms of this list calculation, plus Duynhoven because of losing his seat. Labour’s party vote may come up of course…
10.38pm Can I just say what a great job The ex-expat is doing with the list numbers. Wellington Central final is for Robertson, phew!
10.40pm The ex-expat tells me that Stephen Franks is definitely not in on the National list. Even in the midst of the deep gloom there is some glimmer of light. Occasionally.
10.42pm Jeanette Fitzsimmons on the telly now. Peter Dunne was on before and they kept cutting away from him to do more exciting things. Sad individual that I am I found that oddly satisfying.
10.44pm Five Act MPs would mean Roger Douglas, John Boscawen and David Garret join Roy and Hide. Fitzsimmons is hopeful Kennedy Graham will get in on specials, and just put the boot in about people voting for tax cuts.
10.46pm Looks like the Maori Party with take Te Tai Tonga – Katene 600+ votes ahead of Okeroa.
10.47pm TV3 have called it for National, Hooton is saying that Key has “options” (no pun intended I presume!)
10.49pm Gap closing between National and Labour infinitesimally slowly. Glaciers move faster than this. Looks like it’s still going to end up more than 10 points apart, which means National in charge for sure.
10.51pm National plus Act currently 64 out of 122 seats. Apparently no one in my lounge wants to see the outside of John Key’s house until he is actually coming out of it, thanks very much. Cam Calder at no. 58 on the Nat list is the last in on current calculations (by the ex-expat). So their new MPs would include Steven Joyce, Sam Lotu-Iiga (regardless of the Maungakiekie result), Hekia Parata, Melissa Lee, Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi, Paul Quinn, Michael Woodhouse (Luddite Journo will not be pleased), Simon Bridges (Tauranga), Amy Adams (Selwyn), Aaron Gilmore and Calder.
10.56pm Bennett (N) and Lotu-Iiga (N) are both over 1000 ahead now in Waitakere and Maungakiekie respectively, with over 90% counted in the first, 86% counted in the second.
10.58pm TVOne says Clark has made the phone call to Key and conceded.
10.59pm Well that’s pretty stinky. Basically Greens have done well under expectations, Act significantly over. Key would need 4 (sorry I originally put 3 by accident) more votes to get things passed each time without necessarily going to Act. Maori could provide those. But I don’t think their people would vote for formal coalition with National. Key might decide to go alone as a minority and build coalitions as he needs them, knowing Act will cover him with any right wing moves, and Peter Dunne will vote for anything centrist and he can probably swing some Maori votes for that too. It’s a huge challenge though for someone with so little Parliamentary experience, to build coalitions case by case like that. Hmmm.
11.04pm Might be wrong on this, but it looks like the 3 hard Christian parties got a combined total of 1.22 %. Off the top of my head that could be a new low for those kinds of parties?
11.07pm Gosh it would be interesting if Act ended up outiside Government, in the same way that Labour kept the Greens out and turned to the centre parties for the formal support. Rumour has it that some of the Pacific Party candidates took out personal loans to fund their campaigns and things will be very tough for them. Not sure how true that is, but if Field goes down to the Big House he may have burnt an awful lot of people on the way.
11.10pm And so discussion turns to the future of Helen Clark, most latterly our Prime Minister. Will she see out the term, and if she does will she do that as Leader? If she resigns her seat there would have to be a by-election, which could be a good mid-term pick-up for Labour, or an opportunity for an outstanding candidate from the Greens, or even National. IMHO the ranking of Goff at third on the party list indicated Clark has accepted he will be the next leader, although it may be a short term measure. Clark is now leaving her place to go to the Labour HQ.
11.17pm Now I know why I am doing this, not one of the normal Standardistas, because they probably didn’t want to expend all this effort for people to just be nasty in the comments… Let’s play nice hey?
11.18pm I’m actually not feeling very depressed. I think it has a lot to do with having friends around me that I made when National was last in power, and we were fighting their education reforms, so I know that the wheel does turn. I’m also really excited about Carmel Sepuloni being an MP. And I feel that there is a real chance here for renewal within Labour, and thus within the broader left. A chance to rebuild relationships which have thawed since the 1980s? I hope so.
11.21pm Clark arrives at Labour HQ. Lots of claps and cheers.
11.22pm Clark’s family are on stage – Arl points out they are allowed to call her Auntie Helen. The ex-expat points out Labour haven’t got that much less than what they won with in 1999 (I refrain from pointing out the Alliance is the difference there). Clark gives her now familiar warm Pacific greetings.
11.24pm “Tonight has not been our night”. I hope for Clark’s sake that she doesn’t cry, because sadly there are many people out there who will get too much joy out of it. “I do believe we are as Kiwis v fortunate to live in a democracy… the choice today has not been us but I accept the choice that has been made…”
11.26pm Clark reflects on her achievements as Labour leader, and what the party has done under her leadership. “… The NZ LP at 92 years old isn’t going to go away… yes with 43 or 44 seats in Parliament we’re a little smaller than our current 49.”
11.29pm New Labour MPs will be Rajan Prasad, Jacinda Ardern, Raymond Huo, Phil Twyford, Kelvin Davis, Sepuloni, Stuart Nash on the list, plus Curran, Robertson, Hipkins, Lees-Galloway, Burns in seats. I may have forgotten someone, sorry.
“My job as leader of the Labour Party is complete, I will be standing down, yes, and I will be expecting Labour colleagues to elect a new leader before Xmas, and I will give that new leader whoever it is… total support…” Cries of no!
I am surprised she did it now, I thought she would stand down, possibly not stand for the caucus re-election in the next week or two, but clearly she had decided this some time ago.
11.36pm Starting to think about what this means, particularly in terms of the relationship in future between the Maori Party and Labour. Turia said earlier in the night that she’ll be gone by 2011, and clearly Clark will be too, and my impression was that the rest of the Maori Party are not as opposed to Labour as Turia. So new opportunities may arise in terms of that relationship.
11.39pm In addition to a lot of Labour MPs (listed above) there are quite a few others who were standing for re-election and are out – all the NZFirst MPs (Peters, Brown, Mark, Woolerton, Stewart, Paraone), Gordon Copeland, Phillip Field of course, and Judy Turner from United Future.
11.44pm Our new Prime Minister, John Key, is walking in to Nat HQ at Sky City.
11.45pm Duncan Garner is trying to interview Key as he walks to the podium, but Key is resisting staunchly, just give it up Dunc!
11.46pm Someone is warming up the National crowd, surely that is unnecessary?!
11.47pm Key is in the room. Anth is quite keen to keep flicking channels until we find one that has a different reality!
11.49pm Key hugging people on stage, family and I think key party personnel. He approaches the podium then walks away again to talk to Steven Joyce? Bit strange. Needed someone to move the balloons! Naturally looks ecstatic. “I can’t tell you how good it is to be here!”
“… today NZ has spoken. In their hundreds of thousands across the country they have voted for change. And I can tell you there will be a new National-led Govt in NZ.”
11.51pm Repeating lines from National’s campaign, eg more ambitious. Uhoh balloons in the way again! Pesky things. Talking about state house upbringing and his belief that “this is not as good as it gets” for NZ. “Yes we face challenges but we will rise to them because as a country we have tremendous advantages; our capacity to produce food, our landscapes and scenery, and perhaps most of all the incredible kiwi ingenuity.”
11.54pm “… our collective success rests on the success of individuals.” He paused for applause but didn’t get much then. Unluckily for Key he is making one of the biggest speeches of his life in the shadow of the great oratory we saw earlier this week from the US election. “So let me say this, whether you voted for National or not, tonight, tonight, you have my pledge. I will lead a Govt that serves the interests of all NZers. And it will be a Govt that values individual achievement. And it will be a Govt that supports those that cannot support themselves. And it will be a Govt we can all be part of. Tonight I want to thank Helen Clark… she was most gracious with her comments, so it’s fair to say that Helen and I have different views about what policies are best for NZ but we share a love of this country…” He’s basically trying to be a bit like John McCain, imho.
11.57pm Spoke to Hide and Dunne earlier this evening, rang them to offer his congratulations, and while the details of any formal agreement are yet to be resolved Key can confirm he has the numbers.
11.58pm Has also spoken to Tariana Turia and indicated they will talk next week, and that he wants to work with them too. He’s going to need them to moderate the extreme perception that Act brings. Starts in to the thank yous so TV3 cuts away to discuss the coalition issues.
It’s after midnight now, the conclusion is clear, so I think I’m going to wind up my blogging there.
Feel free to come over to The Hand Mirror sometime, I’m sure we’ll be analysing this result for some time to come all over the blogosphere! Thanks for reading, and thanks to the Standardistas for the opportunity. It was a bad result for the Left, no doubt about it, but we have a good platform from which to rebuild, significant renewal within Labour, and another election in only 3 years’ time!
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Hi,So there’s a bunch of new stuff on the Webworm store (www.webworm.store) — just in time for the Holidays. Read more ...4 days ago - Trying to defuse the tension
There were urgent moves yesterday at Parliament to try and defuse the tension building up over ACT’s Treaty Principles Bill. The Bill’s author, ACT leader David Seymour, told reporters that he understood the Justice Select Committee met yesterday to discuss how long it should take to consider submissions on the ...4 days ago
- An Irritable NZ Pawn – David Seymour Admits Treaty Principles Bill will clear the way for deve...
4 days ago - Gordon Campbell On The Hikoi Arrival, And Tyler Childers
Politicians like to bang on all about the need to heal society’s racial/economic divisions, but in their actions they’re more keen on stoking those divisions, with the Treaty Principles Bill being the classic example. The Bill seeks to dilute the Crown’s responsibilities to Māori at the same time as it ...4 days ago
- Socially Backwards and Fiscally Forwards: the False Ideological Divide and the “Conservative” Li...
4 days ago - Kaamos: Accepted
I appreciate that A Phuulish Fellow has been fairly quiet recently. That’s a combination of two things – comparatively little in the way of relevant material to discuss (at least until The War of the Rohirrim comes out next month), and my general work on The Secret Non-Fiction Writing Project. ...4 days ago - Here’s how governments could fix their Paris climate commitment failures
This is a re-post from Yale Climate Connections Governments around the world face a conundrum. Virtually none are on track to meet their Paris climate commitments. That includes the United States, which committed to cut its emissions at least 50% below 2005 levels by 2030 but is only on track for 32-43% cuts ...4 days ago
- Unstoppable.
4 days ago
- Katherine Trebeck – An Alternative Economic Narrative
The era of neoliberalism has been destructive on so many levels, with a huge growth in wealth and privilege for the one percent. A hollowing out of the state; fraying of the safety net; inadequate government investment in infrastructure; and continued environmental degradation has resulted in damage on a vast ...4 days ago - In a Manner of Speaking
In a manner of speakingI just want to sayThat I could never forget the wayYou told me everythingBy saying nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me nothingOh, give me the wordsGive me the wordsThat tell me everythingSongwriter: Winston TongNext Tuesday, the subscription price for Nick’s Kōrero will ...4 days ago - Monday 18 November 2024
The NZNO have announced a nationwide strike for December over its pay dispute with Health NZ, who have put a 1 per cent cap on pay rises. The Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti and Treaty Principles Bill remain front and centre in the media, with the impacts of the Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke-led ...4 days ago
- Shipley warns Seymour’s bill is ‘inviting civil war’
The divisive Treaty Principles Bill is not just a risk for the National Party, it’s a risk to civil order and unity, warns a National Party grandee. Photo: Getty ImagesKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and poverty on ...4 days ago - A clearer network for the City Rail Link?
This post was originally published on Linked In by Nicolas Reid. It is republished here with permission. Auckland is now just a year or so away from having the keystone of its urban rail network complete. As I wrote about here, the City Rail Link will be a literal game changer for ...5 days ago
- National’s support base is wobbling
If ACT leader David Seymour intended the Treaty Principles Bill to drive a wedge into National’s support base, he may well already be succeeding. By midnight on Thursday after the Maori Party haka in Parliament, National MPs were being deluged with emails and messages from their members calling them out ...5 days ago
- 2024 SkS Weekly Climate Change & Global Warming News Roundup #46
A listing of 33 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, November 10, 2024 thru Sat, November 16, 2024. Story of the week Our Story of the Week is completely "meta" (no, not that Meta). It's about our exploring how ...5 days ago
- Grifter Eftpos Tamaki at it again
..Thanks for reading Frankly Speaking ! Subscribe for free to receive new posts and support my work.Self-appointed “Bishop” and proto-fascist, Brian Tamaki was at it again on 16 November, blocking Auckland’s southern motorway, SH1.This time, the target of his ire wasn’t the Civil Unions Act; covid lock-downs; mask mandates; or ...5 days ago - Rip up a bill, lead a haka are words to live by
I cannot stop grabbing people by the lapels, or shoulders, or similar, and raving at them about the tiny miracles in my ears.I can hear again! There could not be a more satisfied customer in all the world.In a noisy cafe I am even catching words that Karren cannot, she ...6 days ago - Unintended Consequences
Take the baitYou pay the priceIt's much too lateFor good adviceYou know and I know that our good things' throughBecause there's consequences for what we doConsequences for me and youWriters: Kevin Robert Hayes, David Nagier, Bonnie Adele Hayes.Fallout from the first readingOne News began last night by saying that tens ...6 days ago - Thank you, driver!
Today, Saturday 16th of November, is Auckland Transport’s Bus Driver Appreciation Day! Saturday 16 November marks the third annual Auckland Transport (AT) ‘Bus Driver Appreciation Day’, and this year we are encouraging all of New Zealand to thank their driver or let the bus go first if you are in ...7 days ago
- Totally Normal: Holiday Edition
Hi,If I was to accurately sum up my mental state over the week, I’d just say that I got a huge fright from my own shadow.I’d nipped out for an 11pm neighborhood stroll, just to calm down after a day of stress and screens. The Cure and Fazerdaze’s new record ...7 days ago - We Are Not Listening
The current rise of populism challenges the way we think about people’s relationship to the economy.We seem to be entering an era of populism, in which leadership in a democracy is based on preferences of the population which do not seem entirely rational nor serving their longer interests. ...
1 week ago - More lawlessness from National
On Tuesday, sick of government stonewalling, the Waitangi Tribunal issued a rare court order, ordering the Minister of Health to release unredacted documents within 48 hours showing its reasoning for disestablishing Te Aka Whai Ora, the Māori Health Authority. The government's response to the lawful order of a court? Yeah, ...1 week ago
- National’s tyrannical “foreign interference” law
Yesterday, under cover the the biggest political fight of the year, National quietly - covertly, even - introduced anti-foreign interference legislation. The bill is the product of a years-long work-program aimed at countering shit like this and this, and there's unquestionably a need to do something to counter foreign states' ...1 week ago
- The Haka Represents The Best Of Us
A few months ago, I was in an audience watching a Haka-Kapa and as I watched children dance and sing and sway and shout and beat, I couldn’t help but think “The Haka represents the best of us.”Yes, yes - there will be a thousand voices that rush forth to ...1 week ago
- Adding up the climate cost
St Mary’s Bay housing left hanging: Climate risk is systemically underestimated in the climate scenarios used by central banks, and a new report warns 10,000 houses are set to become uninsurable in Aotearoa. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāLong stories short, here’s the top six news items of note in ...1 week ago
- Auckland chafing at Bishop’s housing intensification orders
One of the major problems the Government has in implementing its ‘going for housing growth’ strategy is that it isn’t giving much funding help to councils. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāKia ora. Long stories short, here’s my top things to note in Aotearoa’s political economy around housing, climate and ...1 week ago - Friday 15 November 2024
The Treaty Principles Bill continues to dominate political news, with it passing its first reading in the House. Parliament was briefly suspended and Te Pāti Māori MP Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke suspended for 24 hours after leading a haka that was joined by opposition MPs and the public in the gallery. Willie ...1 week ago
- Weekly Roundup 15-November-2024
Happy Friday, welcome to another round-up of interesting stories about what’s happening in Auckland and other cities. Feel free to add your links in the comments! This post, like all our work, is brought to you by a largely volunteer crew and made possible by generous donations from our readers ...1 week ago
- Are We The Waiting?
And screamingAre we we are, are we we are the waitingAnd screamingAre we we are, are we we are the waitingForget me nots, second thoughts live in isolationHeads or tails and fairy tales in my mindAre we we are, are we we are the waiting unknownThe rage and love, the ...1 week ago - The Hoon around the week to November 15
The podcast above of the weekly ‘Hoon’ webinar for paying subscribers on Thursday night features co-hosts & talking about the week’s news with:The Kākā’s climate correspondent on the latest climate news, including from COP29 this week; on the US Presidential elections, Israel vs Gaza/Iran/Lebanon, Ukraine/Nato vs Russia/North ...1 week ago
- First Tea and Toast, now Milo — why do NZ’s best beverages need so much defending?
Only two months ago, Nicola Willis had to step in to stop Health New Zealand cutting tea and toast for post-birth parents, and now Lester Levy is riding to the rescue with a welcome message for all: our health workers can once again drink Milo, and will no longer need ...1 week ago - Gordon Campbell on the folly of making apologies in a social vacuum.
Day One of the Treaty Principles Bill…and everyone got what they wanted, and did what they liked. Heated words were exchanged. Culturally appropriate acts of outrage were performed. David Seymour got to play the victim card. Willie Jackson got kicked out of class. A comically red-faced Mr Speaker bellowed “Order, ...1 week ago
- Skeptical Science New Research for Week #46 2024
Open access notables Microbial solutions must be deployed against climate catastrophe, Peixoto et al., Nature Communications [comment]: The climate crisis is escalating. A multitude of microbe-based solutions have been proposed, and these technologies hold great promise and could be deployed along with other climate mitigation strategies. However, these solutions have ...1 week ago
- The PM gets some extremely valuable legal advice for free
You can pay a great deal of money for the services of a KC. So just what would some peerless legal writing from 40 or so of them be worth, do you reckon?Priceless, that’s what. It’s not even the half of it, but this is my favourite part of the ...1 week ago - D-day for the government
The government's Treaty Principles Bill is up for its first reading today - bought forward in a rush in a desperate effort to avoid the hikoi which is currently marching on Wellington. But the Prime Minister won’t be there for it – he’s literally running away to Peru! But he ...1 week ago
- 97% of submissions did not want no-cause evictions, Trump chooses a Russian spy for US Intelligence ...
Good morning, and I’m sorry I’ve been away for a couple of days.I’ve been focusing on the Hikoi, and also testing out sentiment on the Treaty Principles Bill. It’s complicated, and the Treaty Principles Bill will be debated in the House today. The Government’s own lawyers have told them the ...1 week ago - Government must vote down ACT Members Bill that would undermine workers’ rights
NZCTU Te Kauae Kaimahi President Richard Wagstaff is calling on the Government to vote down an ACT Party Members Bill that would undermine workers’ rights by making it easier for employers to fire workers. Last week ACT MP Laura Trask’s Employment Relations (Termination of Employment by Agreement) Amendment Bill was ...1 week ago
- Seymour causes thousands of unjustified absences by forcing kids to fight for their rights instead o...
The State would like to remind you that they are in control. They manage your employment prospects, and can destroy the job market you and yours rely on by mass-cancelling construction projects, cutting funding, and firing a good chunk of our public servants. They wield the mechanisms that provide scrutiny ...1 week ago - The Weight of the World
As the weight of the world Hangs on your shoulders The weight of the world Starts to take over again And over again All that you once loved, now you hate So slowly relearn how to meditate To have and to hold And never let go Can you feel it ...1 week ago - Thursday 14 November 2024
The Treaty Principles Bill is set to have its First Reading in the House today, as the Hīkoi mō Te Tiriti continues. More than 40 KCs have written to the Prime Minister and Attorney-General outlining their “grave concerns” about the substance of the Treaty Principles Bill, while an academic and ...1 week ago
- Release: Government should be transparent on live exports
Targeted consultation on reinstating live cattle exports by sea won’t allow the New Zealand public to have their say. ...12 hours ago - NZ’s global climate rankings plummet as Govt removes agriculture from ETS
The Government has passed legislation to remove agriculture from the Emissions Trading Scheme (ETS) while Aotearoa’s reputation on climate action plummets. ...1 day ago - Failed boot camp experiment must end
As legislation to set up boot camps passed its first reading, the Green Party urged the Government to abandon this failed policy experiment for the good of our rangatahi. ...1 day ago
- Gender-affirming care must centre evidence and health needs, not political posturing
The Ministry of Health has today released an evidence brief regarding the use of puberty blockers in gender-affirming healthcare, amid moves by the government to limit access. ...1 day ago
- Release: National doesn’t care about manufacturing
The National Government is walking away from our manufacturing sector with constant reports of closures and job losses. ...1 day ago
- Release: David Parker speech – Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change
David Parker's speech from the University of Auckland's forum on Piketty, Inequality and Climate Change in September 2024. ...1 day ago
- Release: Youth mental wellbeing no longer a priority for Child Poverty Minister
Louise Upston has revealed her diminished vision for vulnerable youth against a backdrop of snubbed advice, scrapped priorities, shifted goal posts and thousands more children projected to fall into poverty. ...1 day ago
- Release: National’s lack of climate action taking NZ backwards
National Government’s backward-looking climate policy has seen New Zealand fall seven places on the Climate Change Performance Index to 41 out of 63 countries measured. ...1 day ago
- Release: Simple reason for drop in emergency housing
When the Government says it has reduced the number of people in emergency housing, what it means is it is stopping people from accessing it in the first place. ...1 day ago
- Govt’s child wellbeing strategy ‘shallow and shameful’
The Government is turning its back on children by not only weakening child poverty reduction targets, but also removing child mental wellbeing as a priority focus in their Child and Youth Wellbeing Strategy. ...1 day ago
- Release: A historic win for Samoan communities
Labour warmly welcomes the Restoring Samoan Citizenship Bill as it passes its third reading, before becoming law. ...1 day ago
- Government plan to reinstate live animal exports a “national disgrace”
The Government has taken a giant step backwards by reinstating live animal exports. ...2 days ago
- Pasifika justice as Member’s Bill passes final reading
Teanau Tuiono’s Member’s Bill, the Citizenship (Western Samoa Restoration) Amendment Bill, has passed its third reading and will become law. ...2 days ago
- Release: Minister of Education thinks New Zealand ends at the Bombay Hills
The Minister of Education has shown complete disregard for rural communities and their school bus routes in Question Time today. ...2 days ago
- Economists sound alarm on Government’s slash-and-burn approach
A group of prominent economists has released an open letter to the Government, raising grave concerns about the far-reaching consequences of its fiscal policy. ...2 days ago
- Release: Smoking numbers up under Costello’s watch
National’s repeal of Labour’s smokefree legislation has taken New Zealand further away from achieving a Smokefree 2025 and a smokefree generation. ...2 days ago
- Release: Call for Palestine recognition by NZ, Australian and Canadian MPs
Parliamentarians from Australia, Canada and New Zealand have written an open letter to their respective Prime Ministers calling on them to recognise Palestine. ...2 days ago
- Justice Select Committee opens floor for Treaty Principles submissions
Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...3 days ago
- Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament
Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...3 days ago
- Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons
Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...4 days ago
- Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill
The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...5 days ago
- Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope
The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...1 week ago
- Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...1 week ago
- Stand Up for Te Tiriti
Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...1 week ago
- Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon
As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...1 week ago
- Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation
The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...1 week ago
- Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned
The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...1 week ago
- Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors
...1 week ago
- Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors
Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...1 week ago
- Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care
Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...1 week ago
- Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect
The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...2 weeks ago
- Without action, an apology will be empty air
For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference
Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...2 weeks ago
- Urgent wake-up call on climate
The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...2 weeks ago
- Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world
Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies
Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...2 weeks ago
- Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- NZ must pursue independent foreign policy
The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...2 weeks ago
- Child Protection Investigation Unit established
A new Child Protection Investigation Unit is being established to ensure the safety and wellbeing of children in care, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “The report released by the Royal Commission into abuse in state care shows us all the risk of not acting immediately when there are serious ...6 hours ago - Speech at United States Business Summit 2024
Ka nui te mihi kia koutou. Ka mihi ki te mana whenua ko Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei. Kia ora and good morning everyone. Thank you Fran and Simon for inviting me here today, and importantly your leadership of this forum over several years now. I want to acknowledge David Gehrenbeck, Deputy ...7 hours ago
- Record number of submissions received on granny flat proposal
Nearly 2,000 submissions have been received on the Government’s proposals aimed at making it easier to build a granny flat of up to 60 square metres without a resource or building consent, RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop and Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk say. “This is the highest number ...9 hours ago
- District Court Judge appointed
Attorney-General Judith Collins today announced the appointment of Rebecca Guthrie as a District Court Judge. Judge Guthrie was admitted to the bar in 1997 following her graduation from the University of Canterbury in 1996 (LLB, BA). She commenced her legal career in Hastings in 1997 before moving to London in ...9 hours ago
- Appointments strengthen Predator Free 2050
The latest Predator Free 2050 Board appointments will help to strengthen biodiversity efforts across Aotearoa New Zealand, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. Mr Potaka today announced two appointments to the Board of Directors of Predator Free 2050 Limited, a key player in the wider Predator Free 2050 Programme. “The Predator ...10 hours ago
- New facility in Christchurch will improve the lives of young New Zealanders
Mental Health Minister Matt Doocey today opened Kahurangi, an innovative and much-needed facility for Canterbury’s Child, Adolescent, and Family Mental Health Services. “The new state of the art outpatient facility opened today will be a gamechanger for the way mental health is delivered for young people in Canterbury,” says Mr ...10 hours ago
- Driver safety screens to be installed on Auckland buses
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news from the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) that bus driver protection screens will be installed across Auckland’s bus fleet by 2026.“The Government is committed to improving the safety of working environments for bus drivers, and Budget 2024 allocated $15 million of Crown funding over ...11 hours ago
- Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements
The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...1 day ago
- Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending
The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...1 day ago
- Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review
Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...1 day ago
- State of the art radiology machine for Auckland
People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...1 day ago
- Foreign Minister to visit Europe
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...1 day ago
- First arrests made under gang patch ban
Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...1 day ago
- Better support for victims of sexual violence
The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...1 day ago
- Government moving forward with Regional Deals
Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...1 day ago
- MSA pilot participant update
One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...1 day ago
- Fighting for Kiwis in Trade
Delivered at Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School Good morning and thank you Deputy Vice Chancellor Lithander for your warm welcome and for inviting me to open Auckland Trade and Economic Policy School today. A Special thanks to the University of Auckland, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade and ...1 day ago
- Attendance rates increase, again
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...1 day ago
- Improving the lives of young New Zealanders
Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...2 days ago
- Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea
The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...2 days ago
- Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024
Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...2 days ago
- New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement
Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...2 days ago
- Latest Quarterly Investment Report released
The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...2 days ago
- New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...2 days ago
- Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight
The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...2 days ago
- LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils
The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...3 days ago
- Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed
The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...3 days ago
- Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double
Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...3 days ago
- Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference
Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...3 days ago
- Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...3 days ago
- Health survey results to help drive change
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...3 days ago
- Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025
A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...3 days ago
- New diplomatic appointments
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...3 days ago
- Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill
Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...3 days ago
- Red Tape Tipline goes live
Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...3 days ago
- Youth Parliament 2025 announced
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I’ve heard there’s been a huge turn-out. The advance voting traditional favours NZ First and the Nat’s (lots of old folk) so don’t be too surprised if it all looks a bit blue out of the traps…
yeah the switch didn’t happen ’till after 10pm last time – big polling booths in SA take a long time to count.
I have been a little irritated at the reports in most of the MSM which are all saying it’s pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Nats will form a government, albeit with some having a little reservations at a possible draw between left & right blocks.
Even Al Jazeera Newshour followed this line. Though they also mentioned the issue of loads of Kiwis leaVing NZ, but said it was pretty much like any small country next to a bigger one, giving the eg of Ireland losing people to England. They also showed the clip of Clark tripping over and getting up quickly, while a voice over said, “But Clark has stumbled before, and got herself up again.”
Media7 Linda Clark & another on panel blaming EFA on uninspiring campaign, because she thinks candidates have been afraid to say much. Also blames media for poor coverage. eg poor or no coverage of potential cabinet minister.
Moved my post down so this one is at the top
Coddington says she made lots of boo boos. haree – Alliance were too disciplined for that.
Linda Clark – problem of having overheard Shipley said Hawkesby was paid a million dollars +
Guys around dinner table: One guy surprised at how shallow past Nat government was – little phiosophy of subsatnce. Guy ex-PR for Labour, about how they kept some Labour MP’s from press interviews as they didn’t handle them well.
Media7: Mike Munro talked about corngate & TV3. Harre was surprised by critical response of media towards Campbell.
keeping positive (-:
Am in Peter Dunne territory seemingly always in front of a couple of suits talking about voting for the nats when catching the bus to work. Live in an IT suburb so probably not going to positive around my way but would love to hear positive news elsewhere.
Voted Labour – chavel (so did partner and eldest daughter)
Meida7: Neutron Bomb:
Clark – likes Mike Williams, but he’s indiscrete. No problem if Labour had something on Key. But don’t send party president & don’t do it in collaboration with nation’s biggest newspaper. Thinks Herald thought they genuinely had a story. Labour shouldn’t have put so much trust in Williams.
Coddingon – media caved in too easily on 2 leaders doing TV debate.
I voted for labour candidate & Greens
Not looking good is it lefties – Helen better start clearing out her office first thing tomorrow –
I hope I don’t have to eat my words later
Peters seems sure to lose Tauranga again
Arseneau has just remarked that the gap between National and Labour is much wider than at the same point in 2005
Carol,
The NZH is a National news paper. Not at all interested in real news with regards to John Key. All the more sad for a guy like Williams still believing their Journalists are actually for real and keen to get to the bottom of stuff with regards to John Key.
Yes, I thought that too Ev.
Linda Clark just said National does not have a mandate from this election – they’ll need to develop that while in government, for 2011. Basically if they win, it’s a vote against Clark.
Campbell just cut live to his reporter in Horomia’s electorate, a Richard something or other.
Richard is well stoned, started babbling about how they’d been smoking fish all day, held up a flounder for the camera. Campbell can’t stop giggling. Classic.
Seemed to be heavy turnout in Rongotai.
Interesting, The Nat’s are already below 49%. Thats bad for them (and good for me). That means that that the Nats dreams of getting over 50% are just that – dreams
Pascal’s bookie: yes, that’s just what we were thinking in this house too.
To be honest I find all the media projections of how many seats and what coalition arrangements at this stage really pointless. Sorry if that burst anyone’s bubble!
Bit like live blogging, you mean?
Teasing, my little Labour party apparatchik friends.
lprent – based on what happened last time, the Nat vote should fall by about 5% as the night progresses, and Labour will gain 5%. Which will still leave them behind, but possibly in with a chance of forming a coalition, especially if Winston manages to scrape over 5%.
NATIONAL WINS!
I’m calling it early.
The guy TVNZ just interviewed, got it right. Labour’s ads were petty, all this talk about “TRUST” has come back and bit them in the butt.
National talked about, their policies, and Labour played the election like Karl Rove.
Ummm from experience there aren’t that many actual labour members here, let alone apparatchik’s. Hell more than half of the writers say they will be voting green.
It looks like the coalition blocks are going to be tight. I can’t pick it. But there is no landslide…
Live updates here guys
http://www.electionresults.govt.nz/partystatus.html
NZ First has dropped from 4.7% early on to 4.39% now with almost 20% of the vote counted. Will the PM npw be regretting her unconditional support?
Brett: forever the optimist. National is not going to win. They may be able to form a coalition, but currently I can’t pick who is likely to be able to form a coalition. I think that Nationals habit of “does not play well with others” will cause them to fail to form one. I’m usually correct.
lprent – the Elections website currently gives National 63 seats in what they project to be a 122 seat Parliament – an outright majority WITHOUT Act, UP or even the Maori Party. Sure, it will tighten a little (4% was the general perception), but it looks bad for the left. And the Greens are only pulling 6.34% at the moment.
The Bill & Ben party are ahead of the Family Party, Pacific Party, the Alliance, Social Credit, Libertarianz, Workers’ PArty, Republicans, RAM …
Its done, John Key is the new Prime Minister.
National is the new Government.
Heck they might not even need act or United, they could govern alone.
Brett: You’re wrong (seen it all before), but why not wait and find out….
CLUNK – Nats down to 47% of counted vote. The slide is starting.
They’ll be biggest, but hard to say if the margin will be big enough.
Carol,
they’ll need to develop that while in government, for 2011. Trust you mean? LOL.
Not gonna happen.
I don’t want to sound flippant but I really don’t believe JK is going to be able to do what he wants just so long as all of us aggressively (but not violently) keep pushing for him and National to stick to the laws and fight them on every shortcut they want to take.
i2: It is interesting, it is going to be really close…….
as lurgee says we’re about to get the larger booths, and the Nats are more likely to slide to 44-46, Labour to 38-40. I think that the greens will probably settle at 7-8%
It is going to be TIGHT
Labour up to 32% – first positive move for them. National going down, Labour going up. How big will the gap be? And where will WInston be?
Ev: I don’t know what she meant exactly by a mandate. It could be trust, or just a coherent set of policies – like so that they look like they stand for something other than “not Labour”.
Tito Philip Field looks like he’s not going to make it. And Peter Dunne is leading, but not by much.
Yeah I was aware of the irony of my comment lurgee 🙂 Also I’m currently without party, although I’ve been in the Alliance in the past.
Brett Dale
What planet are you from?
travellerev:
I was just about to ask you guys the same question.
National has won, Trisha Yearwood is starting to sing, (No offense to the great Trisha)
Does anyone know why “Less than 6 votes taken in Polling Places” is specially mentioned?
CLUNK! Nats down to 46%.
Not closing up quickly enough for Labour, however.
When is Aunty Helen’s concession speech?
This one was about TRUST, and the people have TRUSTED National.
I hope she is gracious in defeat, like John McCain was.
Share of seats
National 60
Labour 42
Peters is gone – TVNZ just ran the prediction – he’s down to 4.27% now, and slips further every time I refresh the table. And with Peters gone, it just got a whole lot harder for the centre-left. I think the Greens would be disappointed with their current vote too.
National + Act are still above 50% on the raw vote (including all the minnows).
Well there were some people who predicting that the greens would get 11%, what were they thinking???
I hope to hell that we get a left Government. That said, with the campaign they ran, Labour deserve to be in opposition.
Friends in NZ say it looked arrogant and desperate, and did little to tell us about what good things Labour has planned. In short, it inspired no-one, and failed to get the debate on the issues. What a waste of a golden opportunity. A few more minutes and we’ll find out, I suppose.
Can someone clarify this for me:
How important are the electorates for Labour? eg if they get a low party vote then does it matter if they win Ak Central or West Coast?
Could the large Green vote in those electorates cost Labour the seats, and thus the election? Or will it not matter because the party vote is relatively low?
Can’t figure the overhang in either.
Labour up to 33%. National + ACT paerhaps less than 50% of total vote. Starting to get confusing and messy.
Bit unjust, perhaps, that NZ Fisrst is polling more than ACT but is completely gone, where as ACT might have a decisive influence. Oh well, that’s the system.
Nah, fuck it, I’m calling this election against Labour, and blaming them for the landslide against them.
I’m also going to say that the Greens still undersell the fact that a vote for them is a safe vote on health, education and the economy – the big three security issues that underly about 85-90% of voters. As a result, they’re forever doomed to 5-8%.
George, I haven’t watched much TV in the last month, but every thing I did see from the Labour party was bashing National.
“if they get a low party vote then does it matter if they win Ak Central or West Coast?”
It doesn’t matter a whit. Under MMP only the party vote determines the number of MPs a party has.
Still, it will be good to see a few incumbents on either side out.
What is quite odd is the way ACT keep increasing their vote percentage as the night wears on. Not what I would have expected at all.
I thought the Greens would get about 8% – a bit optimistic. 6% probably won’t do them any good.
Just think, Helen, if you hadn’t signed that free trade deal with the PRC, I’d have voted Labour or Green. As it was, I spoiled my ballot.
It seems Phil Goff is blaming Peters. Perhaps he should look at his own parties policies.
Lurgee – I was just about to post the same though re: NZ 1st and Act – I’m quite torn – I don’t like Winston and I am glad he will be gone but it doesn’t seem ver democratic that 4% of the population will lose their votes. Why do we have the 5% threshhol (i’m guessing there is a good reason I haven’t figured out)
Brett, if you don’t have anything interesting to say, then don’t say it. Otherwise it starts feeling like trolling.
lurgee: so you’re responsible – anyone that doesn’t vote or spoils their vote is responsible for the results. They determine the election.
We should’ve booted the bastard Peters when we had the chance. We’re losing the immigrant vote because of him….
“every thing I did see from the Labour party was bashing National.”
Which was their problem. It was a scare campaign rather than presenting a vision. If they’d done an Alliance-Labour 99 style campaign with the Greens, they would have been able to say we’ll do this, this and this. $15 minimum wage. Every house in the country warm and dry. Tax cuts on the first $5000, paid by polluter taxes.
Instead they spent as long as humanly possible defending the most odious man in NZ politics, and then went entirely negative, until the last couple of weeks when it was obvious that wasn’t working, and finally started to concentrate on the good things they have done and will do. By then it was obvious to everybody except the Labour Party that it was too late.
Iprent your starting to sound like the McCain supporters. Did ya see Goff on TVNZ, he blamed peters not getting five percent on Labour’s defeat.
What a lovely surprise, waking up on a cold grey London morning tuning in to the NZ sites and seeing what is happening in NZ.
It looks like the homeland is rejecting the left and looking at the strength of ACT really taking a jump to the right.
The next two hours will be interesting.
Brett Dale
This one was about TRUST, and the people have TRUSTED National.
No Brett,
Trust has nothing to do with it. Suckeriness everything. You are a sucker. Sorry mate you should never trust politicians, period, but to trust JK makes you out out to be really naive.
“It seems Phil Goff is blaming Peters. Perhaps he should look at his own parties policies.”
Goff attacking Peters is the height of hypocrisy. Which party chose to go into Government with New Zealand First for the last three years?
Those (currently) 67,000 party votes for New Zealand First are all wasted. I’m amazed there were so many people stilling to vote for the old sleazebag.
Oh god, he means he wanted three more years of Peters?
At least the right know who their enemies are.
What is really interesting is that the Greens are currently less than 3 percentage points ahead of ACT.
I wouldn’t have picked that. Seems like the landscape is changing.
How come the New Zealand left sounds like the American right, and the New Zealand right sounds like the American left?
More people in New Zealand think Key would make a better Prime Minister than Clark, it doesn’t make us Naive.
Labour would need to win more than half of the electorates to get overhang seats on current polling. I honestly don’t see that happening.
The more pressing place where I’d have liked to see Green electorate votes go to Labour would be Ohariu, to be honest. Chavel would be ahead of Dunne right now if everyone who had voted for Gareth Hughes voted for Chavel instead.
Any chance the Maori Party will still get to decide who forms the govt?
(given that they do well on the specials. Greens do too).
Anyone else having trouble getting onto the electionresults site at the moment? I’m getting timed out repeatedly.
Yes I had that problem, weka, but it came back again.
Labour has made a projection for a National win, is that the same as calling the election?
I certainly didn’t want Peters back, I’d happily accept 3 years of Keyism in exchange for the demise of NZ First. As a bonus, can we have a Labour PArty that behaves with a bit of integrity and does proper Labour Party stuff?
I reckon there’s about 3% of shift left in the remaining vote – Labour up to 34%, 35% at the outside, and National down to 44%. Which might leave National just short of a Nat-ACT-UF totality, but Labour unable to do anything, even with the Greens and the Maoris.
Yes I’m glad Peters has gone. It’s the ACT vote & 5 seats that’s a drag. But that’s it for me. I’ve gotta go. Gotta work tomorrow.
Catch you all tomorrow night.
It’s looking odds-on now that National/Act/UF will have the numbers to govern
The current projection with 89.7% of booths counted is
National 59, Act 5, UF 1 = 65 (+ 5 Maori perhaps – Hide supports that)
versus Labour 43, Green 8, Jim 1 = 52
I’m guessing Helen will be making a call soon – or will she concede by txt?
United future will support National?
Peters about to speak.
Good Bye Helen
Bloody Hell, does that mean Phil Goff in charge of Labour? How depressing, Just when they need a proper leader for 2011 when National get serios about wrecking the place …
The good:
Looks like Grant Robertson will beat Steven Franks, AND that National won’t have enough seats to get him in off the list. This is what happens when you make homophobic remarks, Steven. 😛
Winston and NZF are almost certainly gone! Excuse me while I do my happy dance 😀
The bad:
National-led government looks increasingly likely. Say hello to regressive tax cuts, goodbye to fair and rigorous laws, and goodbye to consumer and worker protections.
Act getting to 5 seats. The extremist libertarians are going to have a field day.
Greens aren’t doing quite as well as we polled- although this is not entirely surprising, as we’ve historically polled quite strongly sometimes.
Peter Dunne looks set to claim Ohariu. Again >:( Another victory against principles. =/
lurgee, I agree with you exactly.
I don’t think Goff, Clark, Cullen, or any other Labour minister realises how much a section of the population absolutely detest Peters. As someone said upthread, there’s a lot of immigrant vote just gone like that.
not loooking goof fellas, my pint of stella artois might be chilling for another 3 years yet
Does Helen retire? Who becomes leader and who should?
“Bloody Hell, does that mean Phil Goff in charge of Labour? ”
The right of Labour fights for their man, the left fights for Cunliffe, as I understand it.
God this reminds me of late 1990 all over again. And we all know how that turned out.
Worst of all I pledged to do a streak if Roger Douglas got into parliament. Fortunately, I didn’t specify it had to be a public streak. Though it is a cold night …
I think the silver lining is Winston gone.
You’ve been doing a great job with the live blogging, Julie. Thanks for doing it.
and that’s the ball-game….
So the just had Douglas on tv3 calling for a bit the old shock doctrine. Looks like Key has got some choices to make. ACT wants no part of a centrist government. Key has promised one.
Enjoy your night boys and girls, because the hard work of fixing NZ begins tomorrow
C’mon, ACT are as helpless as the Watermelons. Whaddya they going to do?
First rule of bluff – make sure the safety catch is off on your gun.
The wildcard has been ACT. Everything else turned out pretty much as expected. Dunne might have been persuaded to join a Labour coalition, but ACT’s performance renders all that irrelevant. Unfotunately, Hide’s performance will establish the idea that you have to be a publicity seeking tit to succeed as the leader of a minor party. The bads just keep piling up!
This looks like it would have been a good election for either party to lose, because whichever party does win will have to tread carefully around the minefield that the Bush administration in America have left strewn across the economic landscape. One mis-step from whichever party does win could mean economic disaster; and one which they cannot blame on their predecessor.
If Labour do lose this election, then they can take some solace in that it is nowhere near as catastrophic as National’s loss in 2002 was; and National came close to winning in 2005 (and could well have won outright if not for Brash having been caught out lying about involvement with the Exclusive Brethren in the last week of the campaign). In this scenario, Labour will need to concentrate on the centre of New Zealand politics over the next three years; avoid the ceremonial bloodletting which followed National’s losses in 1999 and 2002; and trust that this three years will serve as an inoculation of the electorate against National/Act, until the electorate forgets, yet again, the lessons of the past.
The champagne is great – come over and enjoy it -= Losers
There’s a possibility that Key will refuse to enter formal coalition with ACT, because of Key’s refusal to contemplate Douglas as finance minister. Which might make for interesting times.
Spectator: I’ve been wondering whether Helen Clark will hang on and try to come back in three years. It’ll be interesting to see … Mind you, at that stage she will have been leader of the Labour party for 18 years, so maybe it’s not feasible.
Is Clark off to Resign ? –
Good
Nats + Maori, fuck Act haha
NZF more votes ACT hmmmm
Seems Phil Goff, George Darroch, lurgee and I in agreement. You couldn’t get much broader a range of opinion on almost any other issue, but there’s consensus amongst us that clinging to Winston has been a large part of the reason Labour and it’s support parties are facing this result.
Pity none of the “master strategists” running the Labour Party had the nous to see it – a blinkerdness which extended to most posters at The Standard. I usually try to stay above churlishness, but I really can’t get past uttering those four most ungracious of words: I told you so.
Rex: I think that’s just classic third termitis – you lose perspective and start to believe your own propaganda.
Captcha: Italo-Abyssinian ended
I think that Labour MP got it right on tvnz, , Labour needs to listen to the people and what we want.
Labour for too long has been speaking to the people and telling us what is good for us.
People dont like it.
I just poured myself my first alcoholic drink in about four years, to toast Key’s success and fortify myself for the squeals of rightwing joy. Interestingly, the ‘capcha’ anti-spam thingy has requested I type in the words ‘society’ and ‘suffers.’ Could this be an omen?
While I am glad that Peters is gone, NZF got 4.2% of the vote. And this just goes to show how unfair the 5% threshold is. Why should all those votes (about 90,000) not count? And how different would things be if those votes did count?
Every Party that could’ve supported Labour except NZF gained votes. Whatever damaged Labour, it hit Labour alone, which backs up your theory. I think most of the Left is very glad to see Winston gone- the only people who’ll miss him are likely to sit in the centre of New Zealand politics.
This was not quite as close as I was calling it, but I was certainly looking for National to make Government given how aggressively they’ve been campaigning. Hopefully Dunne, the Maori Party, and maybe on some issues the Greens will help moderate the Act Party’s influence on National.
Dear Standard,
Three questions:
1) How long does Helen Clark have before she is forced to leave the prime minister’s office?
2) Will you have to leave when she does?
3) Will you be able to continue to opperate your site without it being payed for by the labour government?
[lprent: Idiot – read the About. I pay for it. BTW: Paid – not payed (not only an idiot, also a bad speller) ]
Setting the threshold at about the same level as it takes to win an electorate would be sensible – high enough to keep the dingbats out, but low enough to allow parties that win a reasonable level of support across the country to enter parliament and represent the people that voted for them. 30K or 50K feels about right on current voting patterns.
Another prophetic capcha – ‘disposing stage.’ Refering to Clark?
SHE STOOD DOWN 🙁
Labour should blame themselves for bringing in the EFA and the backing of Sue Bradford’s bill. I have lots of relatives in South Auckland who had been Labour supporters since they set foot on this country, until came the Sue Bradford’s bill, and they me told this afternoon, that they all voted for ACT the only party that opposed that bill.
[lprent: deleted – banned permanently = you are an ungracious arsehole]
Julie, thanks for your work tonight and for providing a talking space 🙂
captcha: dry swing
Ari suggests:
I haven’t had time to do a thorough analysis of the national figures yet but let’s look at one electorate I was following especially closely: Rimutaka.
Ron Mark (NZF) managed only 1,384 candidate votes and yet NZF got 4,944 party votes.
Chris Hipkins, the Labour candidate, got 12,623 giving him a slim lead of just 625 over National’s Richard Whiteside, yet Labour’s party vote was 13,365 (724 more than Hipkins’ personal vote). So Hipkins won by the narrowest margins, and will be gnawing his fingernails waiting for the specials to be counted.
It could be argued that it looks as though 700 Labourites decided to try and push Mark over the line but still gave their party vote to Labour. Hipkins could be sitting on a comfortable win right now if it wasn’t for Labour trying to prop up NZF in that electorate. I wonder how many other electorates will show similar patterns?
Mostly well faught fight, its been a privilege to have the most important part of my growing up under Labour, in just over a year i will be ready to stand on my own two feet, with help from those around me I shall survive. very good campaign on the part of both parties, lets put the dirty politics behind us, and make the most of the next three years.
Good on Helen Clarke and good on John Key. See you all in 2011. I am sad that the Greens have not done better, but they shall remain, and they shall remain the conscience of parliament.
Congratulations toJohn Key, and well done Helen Clark in defeat.
Good bye and Good night.
[lprent: deleted banned]
Good point Rex. If I was Chris I would also be wondering how many more votes I would have scored had Labour Supporters not been actively supporting RMs campaign in the last few weeks.
You’re assuming that is Labour voters tactically supporting NZF (RIP). It might be the other way round – NZF (RIP) voters voting for the party, not the man, reflecting Marks’ lack of popularity – MMP allows them to make that distinction quite clear.
Clark looks a bit stunned on TV just now.
Captcha: ‘Said Borwick.’ No idea what that might mean.
Cross posted from Kiwiblog:
“I think a bit of graciousness is due. History will regard Helen Clark favourably, and rightly so. The last three years have been a disaster, but it’s well known that “all political careers end in failure’.
“Congratulations on what you achieved, Helen Clark. It was time to go, but I acknowledge what you achieved.
” you can hit the negative karma button now.
” and join me in another celebratory drink! “
A new dawn emerges. The light finally shines on the country. Labour in disarray.
LONG LIVE DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We are in good hands.
Today New Zealand showed us that in the face of greed good people are rendered powerless. It showed us that we are all to ready to betray our brethren, forsake our country, and sell our birthright for the scraps from the table of those who have everything, whilst demonising those who have nothing. We tell ourselves that it was time for a change, that eventually everyone will do better but if you look in your heart you will see that is simply not true. If you voted for national admit it before the poorest and most vunerable of our people and feel the weight of your tax cut on your soul. See yourself for what you really are, and face yourself in the mirror if you can.
[lprent deleted – banned]
I think history will look back favorably on the Labour-led government’s last 9 years in power. They have made some really positive, internationally recognised changes to the way this country works. I’ll give National their due, but it will be on their heads if they do a dirty on us all, personally I’m more fearful today than I was after the 2005 election.
And it would be nice if our right-wing peers were just a hint more gracious, don’t you think?
Well done julie, this has been the best election thread on any of the blogs.
Hans: It’d be nice if people in politics were more gracious, fullt stop. After all “we won, you lost, eat that” set a new low in snide ungraciousness in victory, no?
I’m actually quite impressed not just by Key’s handling of his speech but also the Nats for cheering and clapping his praise of Clark – far better mannered than McCain’s supporters.
There were too many people in the last Parliament who’d been there too long and the old emnities had buried themselves too deep.
I’m optimistic that the influx of new faces in both parties may herald a new open-mindedness and willingness to genuinely debate issues and accept that just because the person with an idea is your political opponent, it doesn’t automatically disqualify the idea from consideration.
Long live democracy indeed. But I am still drunk and depressed. I am proud of Helen. She showed true class and accountability tonight, and mad me proud to be wearing red. She is and will always be my role model. No other New Zealand woman has been elected PM 3x. And no other NZ PM in my (admittedly short) years on earth has resigned on election night – let alone as graciously as Helen.
JK, I hope you are the stand up guy everyone says. I hope I can trust you. I want to believe. Please, please prove us wrong, and don’t royally screw working class NZers the way we lefties expected you to.
The left is far from silenced, and I hope that in the coming years we can rejuvenate so that in 2011 the nats do not get another term. I hope that in the meantime, the NZ sucks campaign is not a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Thanks Julie and the standardistas, thanks for your stunning coverage throughout the last few months, I have gained a lot from reading your admittedly more informed perspectives.
RIP NZ first, I felt grudgingly fond watching Winnie’s concessions speech.
Seti above me, you are a right twat and Labour is not in disarray by any means. We are just pissed off.
Ugh I am going to bed. Tomorrows hangover will be a bitch.
Hans, it would equally be nice if some of our left wing peers were a little more gracious (for example, our conscience above).
Helen had a good innings, and three terms is a lot. Four terms was always unlikely. John Key will probably be a very good prime minister, he will have a lot of challenges ahead of him. (Of course, according to some here, the first order of business will be to fire up the baby bbqs, but I’m guessing he’ll wait until at least his second term before doing that).
Your Conscience – couldn’t be more wrong. A rising tax-cut tide will float everyone’s boat. A fiscally stimulating policy such as National’s will save us all. You should be thankfull.
Helen. What a great speech. What integrity, what a legacy. The most effective and inclusive prime minister ever. And looking great in that scarlet jacket.
There is a great new Labour caucus and some new Greens. Roll on 2011 or whenever the next election is, possibly earlier. The right will never have this much power again and from tonight the pendulum swings back to the left.
So lprent: why isn’t that arsehole “your conscience” banned too?
[lprent: hasn’t said anything to get banned for. The ones I deleted were quite bad. Monty just pissed me off again, and when I was quite annoyed with trolls. It isn’t like he says much of interest anyway.
My Conscience was only about as bad as you get sometimes. I wouldn’t generally consider banning you.]
sorry about my previous comment, getting pissed off is therapeutic.
So it’s Gnash-on-all.
That’s you and me. Our retirement savings; job protections; welfare provisions.
It’s our public health and education.
Three years predicated on the achievements of the individual…how come I’ve time-warped to the 90’s but not lost wrinkles?
Time to organise chappeses and chaps ’cause those streets are going to need to be hit methinks.
Thanks BB and DG, I actually enjoyed doing this, although it was quite stressful at first.
Janet has pretty much hit how I’m feeling bang on. Although I have been deliberately avoiding thinking about what this change of Govt might mean for my work. Not good things. But I’ll think about that later or I won’t be able to sleep.
Thanks lprent for your hard work moderating too, intercepting all the “fan” mail 🙂
Thank you Julie. Mostly people were well behaved. Had to put comments into moderation for a while while I removed the trash. I had to drop off-line for a while when Helen was making her speech. I was a bit upset for a while afterwards.
Now it is time to start removing Act and National from the treasury benches. It will be an interesting 3 years.
Well done Julie – it’s been an excellent thread. To all the lefties – now is not the time for us righties to gloat, tempting though it may be! You’ll be feeling the same gut-wrenching sensation that we did three years ago. And at the end of the day, it’s just politics eh! The sun will rise tomorrow morning, and a billion people in China won’t give a sh*t about the NZ election result!!
Goodnight all – need some sleep before the rugby!
Bugger.
Still, my leftie friends, be not too downhearted. A battle lost, the war continues. It was ever thus.
Thank you Helen Clark, Michael Cullen, and the rest of Labour. For 9 fantastic years, and for the final legacy of losing well, competent and disciplined to the end, leaving Labour in great shape for the future.
And to you righties out there – fairly soon I think you’ll find that being in government isn’t quite as much fun as you were expecting. Try not to balls things up too much over the next 3 years. Enjoy your night.
Cheers rOb
I worked with John for a couple of years in the 80’s. He was impeccably honest, intelligent and hard working. The shit that Mike Williams et al threw at him was completely at odds with the true persona.
Ultimately his true colours won through. We also have a graceful acceptance speech and a clear indication that the Maori party can form part of the next government.
Blind ideology on both sides of the political spectrum is self defeating.
I think that the Greens decision to go with Labour has hurt our ability to effect critical policy in the years ahead and shows a significant degree of political naivete.
Goodbye RMA
Goodbye Emissions trading scam
Goodbye secret mini budget
Goodbye Unions
Goodbye Electoral Finance act and public funding of parties
Goodbye Winston
Goodbye social engineering
Goodbye the banning of anything deemed bad
Goodbye “the Standard”
Goodbye Helen
Goodbye PC New Zealand BAHAHAHAHAHAA
its over boys 🙂
[lprent: Read the About and the Policy. Banned 2 weeks]
Agreed IV2 – gloating is not appropriate.
I think Rex hit the nail on the head re Winston – that was a major mistake as was the trust angle and the attempts to character assassinate Key.
Regardless of his politics, it would be appropriate for at least some of the left to acknowledge what he appears to have done in moving national more to the Centre and more importantly making it more inclusive.
The surprise was the relatively poor performance of the Greens. Winston’s failure to get the final 1% cost the left bloc dearly.
Certainly not a bad election to lose 🙂 Winston gone, Helen gone, and the possibility of Nats working with MP means politics will be turned on its head.
LP – is there any way people can offer donations to the running of this site? I’d happily do so simply to get that issue ruled out. I’m not trying to buy you off (hell, you lot normally worry about the right selling things off!!) but the opportunity to contribute to the costs would be something I’m sure many of all colours would happily agree to.
[lprent: It only costs $159 + $20 GST per month in running costs. Plus the efforts of the writers. I’m pretty sure we can cope for the moment. Hell, since you sort of asked (as opposed to the idiot above) – see the invoice. It is the brainwork rather than the finance that makes this site work – I don’t think that the site is going away.]
Lynn, my hat’s off to you for keeping things running tonight. I don’t know what the load on the server was but I’d hazard a guess it was heavier than usual and you (and it) coped admirably.
In contrast, clearly neither TVNZ or TV3 anticipated the demand and their feeds collapsed very early on (yes, I know video is an exponentially larger load, but they have an exponentially larger budget). Eventually TVNZ resorted to two feeds, one for “overseas viewers” (which I couldn’t get to work) and one for “viewers in NZ”. I piggybacked on that one and they’d obviously had to throttle back to 256k and a window the size of a postage stamp.
So well done… your efforts are appreciated.
[lprent: Actually I did very little. I think I finally have the system configured correctly to stand the loads now. Wouldn’t mind another CPU core, but it is pretty good for a small virtual server. ]
I like John Key a lot more now having seen his daughter. She has asymmetrical hair, and bright pink shoes. I believe that says a lot about our new captain of the barge of white cloud. I trust him now.
So, can National govern alone?
New Zealand falls to fascism.
John, if the greens were all about green beliefs they would receive a lot more votes. Unfortunately they are ideologically positioned to the left of labour and it would be hard for anybody to argue for Bradford and Locke being called green champions..
Until they reposition themselves as an environmental party they are doomed to remain fringe players.
IV2 mentioned that now is not the time for the right to gloat. I would challenge that, we are gloating at our blogs and have waited a long time to do so. But to bring it here when some are clearly hurting shows a complete lack of class and is ill mannered in the extreme.
I suspect many of you are worrying unduly about what key will do. He is the least “tribal” PM we have ever had. His support for some left policies shows a pragmatism and willingness to build consensus form both ends that has been sadly lacking for many years in this country.
[lprent: you’re banned – see above – moving to auto-moderation]
NZ rises from the ashes of communism.
Well as a lefty its nice to see a right wing conservative like winston go. But does it not make anyone think a little about our democratic system where a party like NZ first can get many more votes than Act or the Maori party and still not be represented at all in parliament.
A whole new ball game starts Monday. Wow.
Sorry about the election thing. Guess you might be a bit out of sorts now (and probably out of work), so in the interests of bipartisanship and to cheer you up, I thought I’d invite myself over for a BBQ? Where do you hide your trolls?
Illuminated tiger… take a pill, you clearly have not the slightest idea what fascism really is and your new Prime ministers family came here to escape real fascism.
Might I respectfully suggest you step away from the bottle and take a nap.
Good to see luke and Tiger take the result with good grace …
Helen’s departure will undoubtedly leave a huge gap both for NZ and for Labour.
I thought Key’s comments were more than appropriate and in fact vital to ensure that there wasn’t too much gloating given that things will be tough moving ahead.
Surprised that it hasn’t be picked up much here – mind you, have just looked at the clock.
May actually play into Green’s hands?
Geezus Illuminated Tiger… one of us is drunk, because you’re usually an informed and reasonably measured commerntator I could have sworn you just resorted to ridiculous hyperbole.
My partner’s family escaped from Czechoslovakia to avoid oppression under communism. To hear them reminisce makes you feel like you’ve been turned to ice. Which is why I’ve managed to refrain from any comment that includes the words “Labour” or “Clark” and the word “communist”.
You need to get some perspective. Or drink more water.
(And max@gmail, I’m going to assume you’re as drunk as I am, considering gmail has only one ‘a’, and overlook your hyperbole 🙂 )
Just wanted to say thankyou to all the writers at the standard for the excellent posts and to Julie for fantastic coverage tonight.
I though Helen was gracious in defeat (i was very sad to see her step down even though I was kind of expecting it!) and John gracious in victory.
Congratulations to National/Act and supporters.
You ask for graciousness? You have no right.
You and Labour have dragged politics down to the gutter and beyond. The spite that you have introduced to the NZ political scene is going to be there for a very long time, and there is NO ONE else to blame but Labour and you, its obsessive, fanatical supporters.
The last few years of Labour have been unbearable for someone who remembers what politics used to be like. Labour have lied, cheated, defrauded, stack the deck in their own favour, been unbelievabley arrogant, committed only to self interest, and have achieved nothing in terms of legislation.
For all that the Standard posters try to say that they are principled, their actions and inactions have proven them to be just as bad as their labour party employers.
The previous Labour government set NZ back a decade or more.
New Zealand was sick of their bullshit. They got what they deserved. Good riddance.
You are right to fear a new National led government. They will show the humility that Labour has lacked for a decade. They will show your lot up as the pathetic, self centered, adolescent, wastes of seats in parliament they were. They will show you how it is possible to lead NZ without lying, cheating, and stealing. By working with the Maori party they will show you that it is possible to deal with other political parties without the sole concern being to stay in power.
Every single strategy Labour had in this election campaign was negative, and you were all part of that. Negativity is all that you have now. And it is all that you will bring to the party in the years to come.
You ask for graciousness? You probably will get it. You will get it from good people that you have for years accused of being greedy, uncaring, and unintelligent. You will get it from people you and Labour have treated with CONTEMPT for a decade. You will get it even though you dont deserve it. You will get it even though you and your party were possibly the most ungracious, dare i say, CANCEROUS party in the history of NZ politics.
But you wont get it from me.
We won, you lost, get over it.
[lprent: Most of the ‘spite’ that I’ve seen comes from wingnuts like yourself. Hell just look in the sewer that is a large part of the comment streams at whale, heine, or kiwiblog. I note that you make a considerable contribution to it. It isn’t likely that we will descend to your level. But yes, the left lost the election. However just barely. The right did not get a particularly glowing mandate – why – because many of us remember the previous National lead government]
Well done Nats and ACT, very impressive win.
I hope John Key is true to his word and leads the country well, I’ll be delighted if he surprises me and does us all proud.
Pass the popcorn please.
Long live National. Thank god Labour are out. Really, thank god. Was a good night to drink too. Also, this was the worst I;ve seen for Labour. Your ads were bloody stupid. It was all anti Key/National. Good way to turn off voters. Very bad politics. You made voters end up voting National. You deserved to lose.
Fuck this is gonna be a fun three years – you righties better hope your crew moves quick…
C’est la vie. I think, like me tommorow morning, one day the country will wake up with a headache from tonight.
What did you lot achieve in your years in charge? Huh?
well done national, campaigned on policies and with integrity, came up trumps on the day.
Kimble – more than your lot achieved last time. Or will achieve this time. You’re Labour+ remember…
What do you think will really change? And if it really does how long do you think your crew will last…?
max – campaigned on spin and kept the policy hidden… Small target, etc. Good luck with that…
Sorry guys — yes alcohol is a factor.
Helen tied it up good in the end. Short and sweet. Best PM we’ve ever had in living memory.
hulun was good, for two terms.
[lprent: banned means banned. One more message and you’ll be added to the anti-spambot’s feed]
probably best for nz based posters to hang up the keyboard. i see some late nite judgement calls being made by all.
Dear lprent, I hope you don’t need to stay up all night to deal with the moderation? Thanks for all your hard work keeping this all going, have a great break.
Illuminatedtiger.. Well done, admitting you have a problem is the first step 🙂 This is wrapping up nicely for the start of the Gooners versus the Scum on skysport shortly. Not much beer left in the fridge now, might need to change tipples.
Have to mow the acreage in the morning.. Lordy the headache is gonna be a biggee.
Oh, and kimble.. your big long comment just made the front page at my blog..
max – yup, if you drink and type you’re a bloody idiot (forever).
I wonder what will happen to Kiwiblog now…
[lprent: Now that is an interesting question. It has been founded and basically runs on attacking the government as an arm of the Nat’s. What happens when it has nothing to attack. Ummm…. not to mention a lot of those other blogs with no reason for existance apart from attack.]
Now that they’re all here?
ha ha ha. do you think david and lynn will get married and merge their blogs?!
LOL.
[lprent: Unlikely. For a number of reasons I suspect that my partner would do nasty things to me if she even thought I was contemplating the idea. I think that misogyny is the politest word she has ever used about the site.]
“Most of the ‘spite’ that I’ve seen comes from wingnuts like yourself. Hell just look in the sewer that is a large part of the comment streams at whale, heine, or kiwiblog. I note that you make a considerable contribution to it. It isn’t likely that we will descend to your level. But yes, the left lost the election. However just barely. The right did not get a particularly glowing mandate – why – because many of us remember the previous National lead government”
Blah blah blah, some old BS, you really have nothing left. So there are no left wing wing nuts huh?
Wont descend to OUR level? LOL!
Who was it that introduced the term “cancerous” to the NZ political lexicon? Where exactly did the term “We won, you lost, get over it” come from?
WHO TOLD WHO TO TAKE THEIR PILLS??!??!
You. Have. Nothing.
Kiwiblog is a great place for political discussion, or at least it was. That was before lefty trolls came along and deliberately derailed every thread, stirring up nut jobs like redbaiter. Then those trolls found a home. Somewhere they could nestle close to the warm breast of Labour. Or at least a bunch of unionist tits.
The Standard is a worthless place for political discussion. I have been here only a few times and each time I struggle to drag a decent argument out of its inhabitants. I ask for examples, and all I get is insults. I make a reasoned argument for lower taxes and in return I get told that I am greedy and hate poor people.
I recall one thread in which Tane posted some charts to show that everything improved after Labour took power. I pointed out some obvious fallacies in his argument and asked for some specific policies which people here thought would have affected the metric in the way displayed.
Not one example. Not one counter argument. BUT I did get about a dozen posts telling me that I was greedy and hated poor people.
I ask here for examples of Labour “achievements”. Hell, I dont think they achieved a damned thing, but I am stilling open to debate that fact. What do I get?
The Standard promotes the sort of dog-whistle politics that its acolytes take much pleasure in projecting on to other centrist sites.
[lprent: What you describe can be summarized as “people don’t want to play with me”. So perhaps you should look at how you approach ‘discussion’. There are a lot of right leaners on this site. They don’t have a major hassle getting people to engage with them. That tends to indicate that the fault may lie with what you do. Now there is a thought…]
max- better do it quick before they repeal the civil unions law eh?
Kimble – take your pills.
Sod: I think they’re drowning in … err, fluids. Of a certain sort. And not entirely without justification.
L
If Key is REALLY SMART he won’t stop at reaching out to the Maori Party, but he’ll offer the Greens some role in his government. Get a moderate greenie on board as Junior Vice-Spokesperson on Windmills and he’s ensured his green credentials, put some stress on the Green Party’s natural fault line and made himself bigger and inclusive.
Well, we have a tough 3 years ahead, it’s time we all cut back our spending, insure what we can and hope for the best.
Lynn, personally I consider it would be acceptable for the general readership to contribute to the costs of running The Standard outside of election year. If so, I am very happy to contribute what I can, if not I entirely respect that.
Once again, thank you all for a good campaign, and lets make the most of what we’ve got.
G’night all!
(PS, A massive thank you too all those who fraught hard in Wellington Central, exceptionaly happy to see Grant Robinson elected, the bigot may get in on list still, but thank you all for your hard work in standing up for what is right)
The Greens have ruled out any explicit or implicit support of a National government this term. We will be voting against them on confidence and supply, but like any government, we will work with them issue-by-issue. Thus National will either need to find its own Minister for the Environment (a scary thought) or give the ministry to Act or United Future. (an even scarier one)
Well well. Im upset. Im even more upset that we no longer will get to see who lined Nationals pockets when they repeal the EFA (the whole point of it)
Whats more upsetting is that 2008 is the “Election of Lies”
Bye bye ACC
Bye bye Kiwisaver
Bye bye ERA
Bye bye EFA
Bye bye cheap doctors visits
Bye bye cheap hospital visits
Bye bye public education
Bye bye free roads
Bye bye Kiwirail
Bye bye John Key (in 18 months)
Aside from that, what a night. No more Auntie Helen. Hmm, Uncle Phil? No thanks. I’d rather have Uncle Dave or even Auntie Maryan
Frankly, it’s a good election to lose. The current economic climate is extremely toxic and the electorate will hold the government responsible whatever the facts are.
At least NZF is gone, probably for good, and if the National Party try extreme neoliberalism again (as they probably will revert to that, since they have no other ideas), they will be toast in three years. That political program was killed permanently by MMP.
People should take heart from the fact that in a year where everything basically went right for them (imploding economy, three term incumbent government, etc.) the political right could manage a victory of only a couple of seats, and only then because of the implosion of NZF. Pretty useless if you ask me.
Lynn: I move that Illuminated[sic]Tiger and others complaining of fascism be banned for a period of time which allows them to get some perspective.
Democracy indeed. All that’s legal is fair in love, war, politics and sports, as I’m sure all you who’ve supported Richie McCaw these past years will agree. National won this election quite clearly. Going by the numbers on http://electionresults.govt.nz/partystatus.html, National, ACT and United Future garnered 50.06% of the party vote in this election, and that grants them a mandate t govern, even if you ignore the fact that they won the confidence of the house outright.
John Key’s gesture to the mÄori party in his victory speech is a hedge. He doesn’t need them, and if the specials don’t change the makeup of government (which they won’t), I expect to see them cut out of negotiations on the grounds of `irreconcilable differences’ of some sort.
This result, National/ACT/UF governing alone,was my worst-case scenario – and yet, John Key’s victory speech gives me some hope – though he doesn’t need to, he says, as everyone says, that he’ll govern for `all New Zealanders’; explicitly that they’ll support those who can’t support themselves, and so on. Key campaigned on a moderate, progressive, centrist platform which was as recently as yesterday derided as `Labour lite’, and it may just be that he governs on that same platform.
We will see.
I’ll see you all tomorrow, in that brighter [sic] future. I can tell you what I’ll be doing: I’m going fishing. Fishing, as I was told when I was a wee nipper, is first and foremost time for people to sit by the water and think, and that is what I intend to do. Fish will be a bonus.
L
[lprent: added both words to the auto-moderation. I’m surprised that they haven’t made it there already. I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone actually use them appropiately. I’m going to be trying to get rid of this cold. I’ll also have fun reading the sunday papers. I’d imagine that they are having to rewrite rather a lot tonight.]
The site will continue to run. We’ll have a look at what we do for the site in the future. As the ‘sod said, the next few years is going to be quite a lot of fun for a political blog site.
A lot of how it stays up depends on the traffic equation. $160+gst per month isn’t that heavy for me to pay. The issue comes if the traffic continues to climb at the rate it has for the last 6 months and we have to step up the hardware. But I’m expecting the rate of growth to slow post-election.
It has been a lot of fun helping to run the site leading up to the election. I think it is going to be even more fun poking the borax at this interesting coalition we will have to suffer for 3 years (or less).
To quote the esteemed John Stuart Mill:
“I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it.”
So, on a more serious note? Yes, there are left-wing nutcases. The difference is that we don’t elect them to Parliament when they put on a yellow jacket and appoint themselves as head inquisitor and leader of the parliamentary dance squad.
AG- I’ve run the numbers, and even if NZF returned, pre-special votes, National could still govern without the Maori Party.
Been going through each electorate and writing them down for personal interest.
Most electorates were getting between 28,000 and 32, 000. In South Auckland turnout is less than 25, 000. Very significant I think. I heard a lot about Labour’s organisation down there but clearly they’ve lost a lot of that because turnout in South Auckland is LOW.
John Key certainly nailed it when he declared:
On the bright side, 3 years is not such a long time – how much of a bonfire can they make in that time?
What I’m looking forward to is the wingnutcase faction that takes the labour leadership, that will be hilarious.
[lprent: I have to agree with Z. You are starting to activate my anti-troll instincts. Perhaps you’d care to lift your standards before they get fully activated?]
Hi hi Ari, I see I’m not the only green geek here who can’t sleep. Looking forward to seeing a few more Truckin’ good geek posts over at your place once the despair of this night has subsided.
Weirdly enough, the most angry feeling on the top of my internal agitation list at the end of this night (as some peeps have already mentioned above) is that Winston got more votes than ACT and Maori and yet they get maybe 10 seats between them.
I’ll freely admit that I am not sad to see NZF gone for many many reasons, but even so, WTF kind of democracy is our MMP system that this could be allowed to happen?
PS: Oh FFS Max will you kindly just sod off back to the bridge you crawled from under if you can’t contribute anything more to this thread than the textbook rightwing troll comments.
The same kind of democracy that allowed labour to cheatspend there way back into power last election?
zANavAShi
Grow up, you sound like an automaton.
whir click, whhiiir click, “Oh FFS Max will you kindly just sod off back to the bridge you crawled from under”, whiiiir click click,
[lprent: ban – take another week off to grow up a bit. This isn’t a juvie blog]
gingercrush: You’re doing a bad comparison. Try looking in time rather than geography.
You should find the numbers for the 2005 election as well. You’ll find that the south auckland sets were low relative to the other electorates then as well. They are always lower than most of the other electorates. However if you go back to the 2002 election you’ll find that they have been rising fast.
Yes I’m sure they are low. But South Auckland is LABOUR’S goldmine. They need to figure out how to get the people to the booths. The average drop from other electorates is around 5, 000 turnout. That is low and likely lower on other elections too but don’t have time tonight to see. But if I was Labour I would be working out how to get even more people to the booths.
Bye bye ACC
-No one said anything about getting rid of ACC, it was more about opening it up to private competition so that for instance, companies need not pay excessive ACC levies to get the same service
Bye bye Kiwisaver
-Not being sold, need I say that again or can you not read, but then again, its not like it is any better than the 10 other banks out there, the one reason why it succeeded was because it didn’t have barely any start up costs
Bye bye ERA
Bye bye EFA
-Hamstrung attempt to restrict any opposition to Labour anyway, excellent example of labours desperate attempt to get back into power
Bye bye cheap doctors visits
-since when?
Bye bye cheap hospital visits
-since when?
Bye bye public education
-since when? (Not to mention that the public education system is incredibly underfunded anyway)
Bye bye free roads
-Roads don’t build themselves. We have had toll roads for years, other countries have them, why not us? Money doesn’t grow on trees
Bye bye Kiwirail
-I really wouldn’t be that sad to see Kiwirail to go, not only is it a drain on the government, but an unprofitable and unviable venture. It was better off in the private sphere
LOL.
Juvie it is.
Bye bye ACC
-No one said anything about getting rid of ACC, it was more about opening it up to private competition so that for instance, companies need not pay excessive ACC levies to get the same service
* once the work account goes, the rest follows. National’s done it before, will do it again.
Bye bye Kiwisaver
-Not being sold, need I say that again or can you not read, but then again, its not like it is any better than the 10 other banks out there, the one reason why it succeeded was because it didn?t have barely any start up costs
* Er… I said Kiwisaver. not Kiwibank. Key said “never selling Kiwibank” on the TV3 Leaders debate.
Bye bye ERA
* no comeback? You await with bated breath the ECA?
Bye bye EFA
-Hamstrung attempt to restrict any opposition to Labour anyway, excellent example of labours desperate attempt to get back into power
* Have you even read the EFA? National would have been required to list the donors to their ‘secret trusts’ as well. Why do you think they’re so keen to repeal it… could it perhaps be they don’t want to reveal just how much they’ve been bought?
Bye bye cheap doctors visits
-since when?
* I refer you to Tony Ryalls speech last year “let the market decide”
Bye bye cheap hospital visits
-since when?
* again, Tony Ryalls speech “charge for “non essential public services”
Bye bye public education
-since when? (Not to mention that the public education system is incredibly underfunded anyway)
* yet, National are more than happy to double the amount of state funds given to PRIVATE schools.
Bye bye free roads
-Roads don?t build themselves. We have had toll roads for years, other countries have them, why not us? Money doesn?t grow on trees
* ah, but National won’t stick to the ‘must be one free road’ mantra.
Bye bye Kiwirail
-I really wouldn?t be that sad to see Kiwirail to go, not only is it a drain on the government, but an unprofitable and unviable venture. It was better off in the private sphere
* Fully disagree. Rail in the private sphere was always underfunded, undercapitalised, and could be done so much better. Queensland government bought back rail, and look where that is now .Amongst the most used transport system in Australia, at no expense of roads, buses or other transport methods.
Bye Labour.
Well, given we’ve got our fifth National government now, I think I can guarantee more Truckin’ posts. Not necessarily geeky ones, though 🙁
I’m not so much angry as wary. The more moderate face presented by Key- if genuine- could mean that this election has just forced National to take three very difficult years in government while trying to be more like Labour. I’m hoping that will mean that this is a very short Government.
As to dislike of NZF- I’m with you on both counts. I’m glad Winston is gone, but I’m upset that he’s not taking Act, UF, and possibly the Progressives with him. I’ve never understood why we: a) have a threshold at all, and b) let electorates bypass the threshold. I’ve actually got something drafted for G.Blog that goes into this. For now I’ve just posted the election results over there.
As for what National will do: I find it pointless to speculate before they’ve even come to a solid agreement with their coalition partners or even appointed a cabinet, let alone announced their first policy. Speculation is best when informed by more data.
-Rail under the state back in the eighties was an unprofitable venture anyway, which is one of the reasons it was sold off. It still holds little intrinsic value to the country interms of freight options considering its reach is so limited.
-Once again, if you consider how many students are taken out of the state funding loop you would see that the current system would collapse if they were to be reintroduced. Currently, MOE policy is only possible via school donations, and even then, some schools run into debt.
-Kiwisaver is being retained, only the employer contribution is being cut (logical step), what we need now is short term relief, and part of that is not increasing costs for employers.
-Even the Human Rights Commission called the EFA “inherently flawed”, but National (as I remember) has agreed to keep the cap on donations. If anything, id be more concerned about how much Labour and NZ First has been bought than National in this election.
– And under National’s ACC policy last time it was in power it was a success, cry some more elsewhere. ACC is not the be all and end all of comprehensive insurance.
-Unfortunately, Med School is hardly cheap. Considering ACC will still cover the majority of hospital work, hospital charges won’t be an issue. But than again, once you sink over $100k and 5 years into a degree, maybe, just maybe you can comment.
-Couldn’t care less about toll roads. We are moving into the future, not the past. Toll roads increase investment and getting infrastructure online in a shorter time frame.
You’ll probably be reconsidering this position after oil peaks.
No, what we need now is infrastructure and knowledge investment that generates short-term relief and still grows our economy in the long term. National’s few infrastructure investments are poorly targetted and essentially just throw money at the problem.
The employees are hurting too. Why should employers have their obligations to employees lessened, instead of trying to better the lot of both? You seem a little short-sighted here.
National blocked further transparency such as revealing who was hiding behind trust donations above the threshold for anonymity. If we could charge for breaches that happened years ago, and if the laws were actually enforced, I’m sure those of us on the left would be fine with higher spending caps if they were accompanied by greater openness. As it is, only Act and the Greens have declared what looks to be all of their large donations. National, Labour, New Zealand First, United Future, and the Progressives are practically MIA.
Then why is it considered one of the best and most efficient worldwide? Tell me a specific, concrete example of what we’d gain from allowing private competition to ACC. And “the private sector is more efficient inherently”-type arguments aren’t concrete.
As long as the tolls aren’t to build even more roads, I am for road tolls.
No one said anything about public transport. No one in Labour or National really cares about that.
bleuh.
Our political spectrum is missing a divide between a strong left wing party representing the poor that the Alliance was and potentially Sue Bradford has been, and an environmental party, that could potential sit in a more Switzerland aspect on some policies to increase its pull on environmental issues. Its economically rational, with oil prices going up.
Investing in broadband and roads is most likely not going to cut back significantly on the amount of petrol we consume.
Anyway.
A party (especially a centrist one that has to compete more directly with Labour and now National) founded on only a single issue without exploring the consequences of that issue will not last long. See Christian Centrists UF, or anti-corporate NZF.
I should note that an economically-oriented splinter faction of the Greens split off to form the “Progressive Greens”. They polled at 0.26% in 1996 and have since disbanded.
The Right has made itself incompatible with broad green ideology- not the other way around.
lprent – we may be polls apart politically and philosophically, but a big ups to you for your attempts to keep debate at The Standard reasonable – even if you do cut ‘Sod far too much slack at times. If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion – Just don’t be so hard on those from the right that you miss the slander and innuendo that your own sympathisers post.
Anyway, WTF are we going to argue over now that the election is done and dusted?? 😉
[lprent: I cut everyone too much slack. Occasionally I slice it off. Keeps everyone monitoring their own behavior. I suspect that a big topic of conversation will be the relative incompetence of Key in forming and managing a coalition.]
I wonder when that “snap” point will come when the swing voters discover they have made a terrible mistake? I give it 6 months. I predict they’ll be moving fast on a lot of what they want to do as then they can try to innoculate themselves against the public backlash.
I may only be in my early 20s but I do remember the 90s under National and the immense struggles my parents had to endure under them. The people who I feel sorry for now are those who are about go through the same and the kids who are going to have to watch it happen – and in many cases end up experiencing it worse than I did.
Captcha: Is Defeated
But never destroyed.
Labour should blame themselves for bringing in the EFA and the backing of Sue Bradford’s bill. I have lots of relatives in South Auckland who had been Labour supporters since they set foot on this country, until came the Sue Bradford’s bill, and they me told this afternoon, that they all voted for ACT the only party that opposed that bill.
This doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. Here are the 05 and 08 prty votes for ACT in the ManukaU East, Mangere and Manurewa seats:
SEAT / 05 SHARE / 08 SHARE
Mangere / 141 / 252
Manukau East / 629 / 395
Manurewa / 232 / 575
05 results can be checked here:http://2005.electionresults.govt.nz/electorateindex.html
08 results can be checked here:http://2008.electionresults.govt.nz/electorateindex.html
So virtually no difference in the total votes cast for ACT across the three seats.
Whatever caused ACTs resurgeance, it wasn’t disillusioned PI child thumpers voting for the Freidmanites.
[lprent: fixed the italics]
…just seen this thread, haven’t followed all of it, so apologies if this has already been mentioned. Key needs to state a timetable for his vision and goals. Among those goals must be a review of MMP and dropping the loathsome and disgraceful Electoral Finance Act. Fantastic re Rodney Hide and the implications for the loopy Kyoto agreement. And where will Helen go ? and will hubby go to ?