Federated Farmers want more urbanites

38 comments on “Federated Farmers want more urbanites ”

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1. The Al1en 1

   3 January 2013 at 9:12 pm

   One foot, one mouth or one mad cow away from the poorhouse.
   Farmer would be better off keeping his eyes on his back gate than his nose in my trough.
2. rosy 2

   3 January 2013 at 9:50 pm

   yeah – because there is such a strong correlation between overpopulated small countries and life chances (sarcasm intended)

   Small economies dominate the top ten. Half of these are European, but only one, the Netherlands, is from the euro zone. The Nordic countries shine, whereas the crisis-ridden south of Europe (Greece, Portugal and Spain) lags behind despite the advantage of a favourable climate. The largest European economies (Germany, France and Britain) do not do particularly well.

   America, where babies will inherit the large debts of the boomer generation, languishes back in 16th place.

   But I do agree that cities need to be built up rather than out.
   • aerobubble 2.1

     5 January 2013 at 12:30 pm

     Colder countries, parliamentary democracies, need citizens to have enough cash to heat their homes and so more income is necessary to funnel into the hands of the citizens, more influence follows as a result and so more engaged democracy. Whereas your southern Europe countries have less government, people can live remarkable good lives with a few olive trees and cheap plonk, and
     also suffer much worse governance keeping them behind the pace.
3. Binders full of viper- women 3

   4 January 2013 at 7:31 am

   I think I agree with the headline.. NZ does need more people.. 5-6 million would be good, we could get to a critical mass that creates enough demand for things like urban rail, domestic car production, stadiums & theatres that fill up.. and low density cities that sprawl out over farmland are inefficient and anti social.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.1

     4 January 2013 at 8:10 am

     we could get to a critical mass that creates enough demand for things like urban rail, domestic car production, stadiums & theatres that fill up..

     That only applies if you’re out to make a profit from them.

     and low density cities that sprawl out over farmland are inefficient and anti social.

     Agreed except for the farmland – would much prefer to have native bush feeding into clean streams than the destruction and pollution of farms.
   • lorax 3.2

     4 January 2013 at 1:50 pm

     Prior to the arrival of people to this land there were about 12 million kiwi. Now there are about 60,000 kiwi and declining and 4.5 million people and increasing. Therefore if you could ask the indigenous inhabitants of our land they would likely disagree with your proposition of “need”.
     Anyhow NZ’s population will likely rise to at least 6 million by 2060 (see Stats NZ) so your wish will be granted albiet slower than you may desire. However, compared to the 1 million years that kiwi have existed in this land (longer if you include their ancestors) our exponential increase in the last hundred or so years is bloody fast!
4. tc 4

   4 January 2013 at 7:48 am

   One man and his soapbox. This english family has become quite of seasoned bunch of troughers lately. Let’s not forget the high paid job bill scored his other brother.

   To have high density you need affordable accommodation and public transport, a couple of areas his brothers mob are trampling, then there’s the epic f’up that is the chch rebuild.

   These Tories love insulting the intelligence, which is fine with our MSM as they possess little so this will likely get restyled up as if it’s news with little or no critical analysis.
5. Draco T Bastard 5

   4 January 2013 at 8:07 am

   There are not enough people to produce the exports, provide the services, pay the taxes and build a future at first world income levels. We simply need more people.

   And that sums up the BS there. Even if we did get to having the same population as the UK he’d still be saying that we just need more and all we’d ever see from having more people is more poverty and an ever greater gap between the haves and the have nots.

   We have enough people already – the problem is that the wealth isn’t distributed well with most going to the few.
   • karol 5.1

     4 January 2013 at 9:29 am

     And as well as more poverty and greater inequalities, it will put more stress on our environment. We still have unacceptable levels of sewage being pumped into the water at some of Auckland’s beaches. However, this summer Auckland Council is working on keeping the water quality safe and healthy, as people crowd Auckland’s beaches.

     Auckland Council is monitoring it.

     But it’s a worry that some beaches are on the “”no swim” list.
     • tc 5.1.1

       4 January 2013 at 10:00 am

       You have to ask the question of mark ford, the uber Waterlord, why is raw sewage being pumped out to sea in 2013 anyway with upgrades to mangere and nth shore plants when is this going to stop.

       For a country with as much water as we have this just seems bonkers.
6. thomas 6

   4 January 2013 at 10:17 am

   “New Zealand is a big country – at 268,000 square Kms we are bigger than the United Kingdom; we are 67% the size of Germany…”

   Size is not as important as habitability. He’s not comparing apples with apples. At 266,000 square Kms Western Sahara is comparable is size to NZ so therefore by Mr English’s logic it needs many millions of people instead of the half a million that is has. Unfortunately Western Sahara is mainly uninhabitable desert. NZ has very little arable land in comparison to UK and Germany, anyone who has flown over South Island knows the majority of the mainland is Mountainous, North Island is also similar.
   • aerobubble 6.1

     5 January 2013 at 12:32 pm

     Great for growing animals that can climb up and down the hills.
     • weka 6.1.1

       5 January 2013 at 12:45 pm

       For a while. Eventually said animals degrade the landscape, and in a CC, Post-peak oil world, we will not be able to sustain that kind of farming.

       We could of course be replanting forest, and some animals that climb up and down hills would do well there. But not enough to sustain a population the size of the UK.
       • Colonial Viper 6.1.1.1

         5 January 2013 at 12:48 pm

         For a while. Eventually said animals degrade the landscape, and in a CC, Post-peak oil world, we will not be able to sustain that kind of farming.

         High country stations existed before diesel machinery became common and they will again. That’s what horses are for. Agree though the UK is completely unsustainable.
     • Rogue Trooper 6.1.2

       6 January 2013 at 5:28 pm

       Lamb schedules not so good, sadly
7. Erentz 7

   4 January 2013 at 12:08 pm

   You may not want a greatly increased population but people are going to have to accept massively increased immigration as consequence of climate change. It would be wise to capitalize on this when it happens.
   • Draco T Bastard 7.1

     4 January 2013 at 4:04 pm

     You may not want a greatly increased population but people are going to have to accept massively increased immigration as consequence of climate change.

     No we don’t and, in fact, there’s no way we could afford to.

     It would be wise to capitalize on this when it happens.

     The only wisdom would be to prevent it from happening.
     • erentz 7.1.1

       4 January 2013 at 8:21 pm

       Will we have a choice to simply close the border? At what point will this happen and how? What about to Australian’s? What about all the kiwis living overseas? What about the moral aspect and refugees?

       It’s not as simple as you think. Unfortunately most people think climate change is a big joke, and for most of them they’ll be spared the worst of it, but the rest of us will get to live through it. It’ll be interesting times over the next century and nothing will look the same at the end of it.

       PS: Yes I’m with you, we should prevent climate change, unfortunately all evidence from history points to the fact that we simply will do far too little, far too late.
       • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1

         5 January 2013 at 1:26 am

         Will we have a choice to simply close the border?

         Of course we do.

         At what point will this happen and how?

         It’s not a question of when but a question of what’s happening at the time.

         What about to Australian’s?

         They’ve got an entire island continent to themselves.

         What about all the kiwis living overseas?

         I’m sure that most of them will return in time.

         What about the moral aspect and refugees?

         What about the simple fact that we can’t support millions of people. Allowing millions in will, therefore, not actually save any lives.

         It’s not as simple as you think.

         Actually, it is.
         • handle 7.1.1.1.1

           6 January 2013 at 5:43 pm

           The Indonesian army probably disagrees with you.
8. millsy 8

   4 January 2013 at 4:33 pm

   Conor English wants a larger population, but he doesnt want farmland to be given up so they can have a place to live. If he wants more people to come here then he is better off to attract them to the underpopulated rural areas, rather than pack them into high rises with all the social problems that come with such an approach.
   • mike e vipe e 8.1

     4 January 2013 at 4:54 pm

     millsy their not called feral related farmers for notthing
   • Draco T Bastard 8.2

     4 January 2013 at 6:07 pm

     rather than pack them into high rises with all the social problems that come with such an approach.

     What social problems?
     • millsy 8.2.1

       4 January 2013 at 8:38 pm

       A lot of the apartment buildings in the US, and Britain have become magnets for crime and squalor, as well as the usual tensions that come with packing people in so close to each other. Not helped, of course by lack of maintenance, expecially in the past 30 or so years.
       • karol 8.2.1.1

         4 January 2013 at 8:42 pm

         And yet, high rise apartment blocks for wealthy people have no such problems. I don’t think it’s high or medium density of housing that’s the problem, but the poverty etc.
         • millsy 8.2.1.1.1

           5 January 2013 at 12:38 pm

           Yes, you are correct about the poverty.
           • felixviper 8.2.1.1.1.1

             5 January 2013 at 2:17 pm

             Pretty sure Connor ain’t talking about adding a few million rich people…
         • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.2.1.1.2

           5 January 2013 at 4:04 pm

           It’s not the poverty as such karol, it is the generational poverty and the anti-social, anti-community mindset that can go with it. A poverty of spirit with no personal standards, no personal discipline by a few tenants and some whole families who have feral, vandalistic behaviours and addictions can ruin an area of poor but capable people living together in tolerance, basic goodwill and self-help.

           The lifts and stairs required for high-rise buildings can become disgusting channels of odours, graffiti, rubbish with uncertainty as to when they will be repaired and working, also uncertainty as to when it is safe to go out unobserved and unharrassed etc. High rises such as they have had in the UK are unsuitable for any human beings. I think in England and Scotland they’ve been up to 20 stories high. There should be a limit on high rises as dwellings so they are not more than five stories. And maintenance should have generous budgets and that whole-block social events and community assistance eg after school tutoring, be available constantly with a decent budget also.
       • aerobubble 8.2.1.2

         5 January 2013 at 12:42 pm

         Developers of council estates never imagined that the people who lived there would need commercial space for rent on the ground floors, available easy to access. They were built in a way that would not undermine the commercial prospects of existing businesses. And since the likely residents would have little money there was no need for leisure and other amenities.

         I believe it should be a human right to never be able to live in a ground floor apartment as such areas are good office space, retail, and leisure opportunities. Cities were designed, built and paid for by people who brought into the car lobby view of city living.
   • aerobubble 8.3

     5 January 2013 at 12:36 pm

     Surely its an inevitability, as we head towards 15 billion people worldwide, we’d need to pack them in someplace. What’s a surprise though, that the right wing farmers lobby can extrapolate out the trend for population but not for burning fossil fuels.
     • Colonial Viper 8.3.1

       5 January 2013 at 12:46 pm

       We ain’t getting to 15B people mate. 8.5B to 9.0B and then a major die-off is more likely.
       • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.3.1.1

         5 January 2013 at 4:14 pm

         Some recent predictions about population levels here.

         How many people does New Zealand need?
         Marilyn Waring –
         A wrong-headed question – no reason not the “need”. . .

         Andrew Barclay Chief executive for Goldman Sachs – (lovely sounding words, someone could write a song with them and a catchy tune).
         How many people does New Zealand need?
         It’s a matter of the quality of our talent pool not the quantity. Our focus should be on investing and continuing to improve our education standards at all levels, increasing our economic productivity and becoming more efficient and innovative. Immigration or population growth per se is not the answer.

         What’s the biggest challenge New Zealand faces?
         A comprehensive long term (30-year plus) economic development plan and the political consensus to apply it consistently.

         In contrast Bill Rosenberg economist CTU attempts some actual figures instead of hazy sentiments.
         How many people does New Zealand need?
         Personal opinion – five million in 10 years, 15 million in 100 years, but we have to get our education and training systems and our employment laws right first, to prevent it being used to beat down wages, and stop the bleeding to Australia.

         Summed up by Mai Chen lawyer at Chen Palmer NZ Public Law specialists
         How many people does New Zealand need?
         More. How much more is a political question as well as one of economic viability and sustainability. The sort of immigrants New Zealand wants won’t be attracted if we don’t put out the welcome mat and provide an economy with opportunities.
         http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/8112423/The-world-of-business-in-2013
         • Colonial Viper 8.3.1.1.1

           5 January 2013 at 4:22 pm

           The sort of immigrants New Zealand wants won’t be attracted if we don’t put out the welcome mat and provide an economy with opportunities.

           Surely this is a bad taste joke. NZ can’t even produce satisfactory economic opportunities for its own 20 year olds.
           • felixviper 8.3.1.1.1.1

             5 January 2013 at 4:45 pm

             Our own 20 year olds don’t fancy being slaves. That’s kinda the problem.
           • NoseViper (The Nose knows) 8.3.1.1.1.2

             5 January 2013 at 4:49 pm

             Well I would like to see an economy with opportunities, real ones that is for everyone to get on and earn to first-world standards.
9. lorax 9

   5 January 2013 at 1:45 pm

   The Herald has just published Connor English’s piece…http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10857358

   I’m starting to see his (and fed farmer’s point) – He’s essentially advocating intensive “farming” of people (aka consumers) who will buy their excess production as dairy farming etc intensifies. Sounds a bit like the “battery chicken world” that Paul Ehrlich speaks of…
   • Rogue Trooper 9.1

     6 January 2013 at 5:32 pm

     consumption driven economics
10. unicus 10

    7 January 2013 at 7:16 am

    Conner English was the sod who lobbied his brother for $600 m as soon as this excrable govt was elected for rural broadband . Farmeres and their families constitute 6% of NZs population Auckland desparately needed those funds to complete the CBD rail loop so it can function as other cities of comparable economic and social importance do . Is it a surprise to anyone that a cynical clodhopper who grabbed a sack of taxpayer dosh to fund better access for backblocks porn fans now wants to build vertical slums for townies .

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