Friday will change Us As Citizens
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8:04 am, October 22nd, 2021 - 210 comments
Categories: covid-19, health, human rights, jacinda ardern, tech industry, workers' rights -
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Whatever the timing of the plans announced on Friday, as of January 2022 New Zealand will be ruled by a very different kind of government.
While we may have been lifted out of martial lockdowns and some BORA rights reinstated in limited form, we have in fact surrendered to another more pervasive power.
The governing power we will have is not however what the leftie fantasy of a totalised state perpetually rolling out wealth redistribution. Nope, in the name of public policy it will be a governing power that will track where you are, who you meet with, how you travel to meet with them and travel back, track how you work and who you work with, what kind of risk you are to society whether you’ve done anything wrong ever in your life or not, what kind of job you can have, and whether you continue to inject year after year.
The state will be able to do so not because we collectively assented, or voted in this policy in a manifesto, or because it is law, or because you “allowed cookies”. It will do so because you will let it, or you feel the pervasive economic and social coercion at its disposal and squeeze to civic insignificance the holdouts.
So much a fresh price on our freedom.
That power to command us comes no longer from occasional exercises of Police with tasers and cuffs, or from our armed forces with the residual power of weapons. This is not old-style analogue coercion. It is multinational Big Data taking over government of our lives. Sure we will still have our analogue throwbacks like Brian Tamaki having actual picnics and an actual day in court in front of an actual judge. But this is not how the Team of 5 Million is being regulated.
No, the government that will guide and correct and command us will be one primarily from Big Tech. Our QR code system is run by Amazon. Nationwide use of vaccine ‘certificates’ or ‘passports’ were confirmed by the Prime Minister on October 8th. We don’t yet know the provider but it will be a conglomerate of Big Tech players. There will be an app available for verification, using mobile, or website, and printable. We don’t know whether safeguards will have any real force to them, but given how poorly New Zealand is regulated in any and all of its critical infrastructure I am not optimistic.
As airlines, hotels and restaurants specify “Double-Vaxxed Only”, it will spread to taxis, law firms, malls, builders and tradies, insurers and in fact every single transaction, and there is seriously nothing to stop Foodstuffs and Woolworths doing the same. We will not be provided with a new ‘human right’ to not demonstrate our QR Double Vax Pass. This will spread – even faster than the virus – to our major employers before you are allowed to get in the door. It will quickly erode inside public services like schools once the virus gets going through our children.
We will gauge its power not by whether there’s a knock on the door and you are personally required for an interview ‘down at the station’. No, there will be no due process at all. You will simply be DoS.
There’s a famous book by Robert Higgs called Crisis and Leviathan. It details how after each successive crisis, the government expands the power of the state to deal with the crisis, but almost never releases that accreted power back to the people once the crisis is over. This is what Ardern is announcing on Friday: the tools to calibrate an entirely smaller definition of freedom for New Zealand.
Consider how this works right at the top of power. While Steve Bannon’s Contempt of Congress charge needs to go through 6 different legal evaluation processes and may see the light of day through the DoJ and a Grand Jury over the next year, Big Tech has no such qualms. When President Donald Trump posted with praise for the January 6th insurrectionists, the House response was to form a committee and take a year to get to something. Whereas within hours, Facebook and Twitter suspended his accounts, Amazon, Apple and Google banished Parler, Paypal and Stripe stopped processing all his donor transactions, and Trump’s political operation shrank like a choked snake.
Imagine, in just a small way, if like Trump you decide in 2022 to buck the state, but instead of railing against an election you simply choose to remain unvaccinated. Or even if vaccinated, seek to refuse to disclose such medical records? What digital rights do you have to demand service and entry to any of the great tech portals that rule our lives and now manage our health system down to literally how we breathe? Your right to Apple, or Google, or Amazon, or Facebook, or Twitter? There is no regulator for this power. All we might plead over is the service ‘agreements’ you sign up to. It’s never, ever a right: it is a contract.
Covid19 is seeing the greatest expansion of state power into our lives since the formation of individualised digital IRD accounts. That power resides only in the first instance in the political order, but in exercised reality it is in the hands of Big Tech. Since the government has not had the courage or will to mandate vaccination proof for employers and let that decision be subject to political accountability, it has instead enabled Big Tech to take and deploy that same power over us.
The government through not mandating vaccine proof, has in proxy formed a vast, cruel unregulated market for social exclusion and inclusion in any good or service outside the four walls of your home. In the words of Frank Underhill, you will be entitled to nothing.
Rights to privacy are being swept aside as fast as the Bill of Rights were when the pandemic struck: they are next to useless. Our proposed regulations over ‘harmful’ content within Big Tech will be impossible once these giants have this much societal power: we will beg them to exploit our data, in order to retain access to society. Big Tech is rapidly the primary arbiter of most of our human rights.
The signal I want to see on Friday is that Ardern gets the scale of power she is handing over.
I don’t even think she has the power to stop it happening, even if she wanted to.
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Today, the Justice Select Committee has decided to officially open submissions for the controversial Treaty Principles Bill. ...3 days ago
- Power of the people on full display as hīkoi approaches Parliament
Today, Hīkoi mō te Tiriti arrived in Wellington, with thousands gathering to march in unity against the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...3 days ago
- Hypocrisy as Te Whatu Ora contractor bill balloons
Te Whatu Ora’s bill for contracting and consulting staff has ballooned by nearly 20 percent under the National Government, breaking a promise they made during the election campaign to cut contractors. ...4 days ago
- Release: Growing pressure to scrap Section 7AA Repeal Bill
The newly released Section 7AA Repeal Bill's select committee report is further evidence that the Government should scrap it. ...4 days ago
- Government’s move to monetise access to nature a slippery slope
The Green Party is voicing serious concerns over the Government’s proposal to charge for access to public conservation land, released today. ...7 days ago
- Green Party condemns the passage of Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party condemns the passing of the Treaty Principles Bill at first reading, and is clear that the fight is not over. ...1 week ago
- Stand Up for Te Tiriti
Te Tiriti o Waitangi is our country’s founding document. It forms the basis of the relationship between Māori and the Crown – and the Aotearoa New Zealand we live in today. ...1 week ago
- Release: Over 15,000 sign Labour’s open letter to Luxon
As the hīkoi to Parliament continues, Labour has sent an open letter to Prime Minister Christopher Luxon in a last-ditch attempt to get him to kill the Treaty Principles Bill. ...1 week ago
- Fast Track Bill threatens environment, climate and reputation
The fast-track legislation passing its second reading in Parliament is another step towards environmental ruin. ...1 week ago
- Greens join King’s Counsel in calling for Treaty Principles Bill to be abandoned
The Prime Minister must answer the call from a group of senior lawyers of the King’s Counsel to abandon the divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...1 week ago
- Chris Hipkins’ apology statement to state and faith-based care survivors
...1 week ago
- Release: Labour formally apologises to state and faith-based care survivors
Labour joins with the Government in unreservedly apologising for the abuse, neglect and trauma including torture in state and faith-based care and for ignoring the voices of survivors for too long. ...1 week ago
- Green Party stands in support of survivors of abuse in care
Today, the Green Party stands alongside the survivors of abuse in state care and faith-based care as the Government issues an historic apology. ...1 week ago
- Green Party calls for conscience vote on Treaty Principles Bill
The Green Party has written to the Speaker of the House requesting he enable a personal vote on the Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Govt move to exclude journalist risks chilling effect
The Green Party is alarmed by the Government’s move to exclude a journalist from covering this week’s apology for the survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care. ...2 weeks ago
- Without action, an apology will be empty air
For tomorrow’s apology to survivors of abuse in state and faith-based care to hold any water, the Government must not pursue the same policies that drove the abuse in the first place. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Concerns remain over tobacco interference
Concerns about the tobacco industry’s ability to interfere in government policy making remain, despite the inability of the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Government’s decision to halve the excise tax on heated tobacco products. ...2 weeks ago
- Urgent wake-up call on climate
The Climate Change Commission’s latest advice indicates Aotearoa needs to be stepping up on climate action. ...2 weeks ago
- Green MP’s Meme-ber’s Bill set to save the world
Break out the punchlines and dust off your meme folder: Green Party MP Kahurangi Carter’s Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill was pulled from the Ballot yesterday. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Poroporoaki: Ta Robert (Bom) Gillies
Kua hinga te manawa kairākau o Te Rua Tekau Ma Waru Tiwhatiwha te po! Kakarauru i te po! Ka rapuhia kei hea koe kua riro! Haere e te Ika a Whiro ki o tini hoa kua ngaro atu ki te Pō ...2 weeks ago
- Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principles Bill
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Labour, Greens and Te Pāti Māori call on the Prime Minister to block the Treaty Principle...
The opposition parties stand united for an Aotearoa that honours Te Tiriti, rather than seeking to rewrite it. Labour, the Greens and Te Pāti Māori are working together against the Government’s divisive Treaty Principles Bill. ...2 weeks ago
- NZ must pursue independent foreign policy
The Green Party says the need is greater than ever for Aotearoa New Zealand to pursue an independent foreign policy. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Winston Peters must apologise
The Deputy Prime Minister should apologise to the public servant he named and blamed for something they did not do, and for misusing the rules of Parliament. ...2 weeks ago
- Government action provides Southland farmers more time to meet plan requirements
The Government is taking action to ensure Southland farmers and growers are not affected by unreasonable regional farm plan deadlines, Agriculture Minister Todd McClay, Environment Minister Penny Simmonds and Associate Environment Minister Andrew Hoggard say.“Cabinet has agreed to provide more time for farmers and growers to comply with regional rules ...12 hours ago - Bill reaffirms Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending
The Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Bill had its first reading at Parliament today. The Bill reaffirms the Government’s commitment to crack down on serious youth offending, Minister for Children Karen Chhour says. “In recent years we have seen an unacceptable spike in youth offending. “This Bill makes ...12 hours ago
- Critical milestones for earthquake buildings review
Fairer, more sensible rules about managing earthquake risks are a step closer with the passing of legislation and the appointment of an independent chair to provide expert advice, Minister for Building and Construction Chris Penk says. “The Government is committed to reinvigorating our cities and regions to support economic growth, ...13 hours ago
- State of the art radiology machine for Auckland
People in Northland and Auckland will benefit from a new machine for cancer treatment installed at the Regional Cancer and Blood Service at Auckland City Hospital. The MV5 linear accelerator, or LINAC machine, officially opened today targets cancer tumours with pinpoint accuracy. Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says this new, ...13 hours ago
- Foreign Minister to visit Europe
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will travel to Europe for high-level talks with France, Germany and the United Kingdom next week. "Since taking office almost a year ago, the Coalition Government has emphasised the importance we place on New Zealand's traditional and likeminded diplomatic and ...14 hours ago
- First arrests made under gang patch ban
Police have made their first arrests under the new gang patch legislation, with two gang members arrested, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “Just before 11 this morning, Police in Wairoa apprehended a gang member for wearing a patch to the supermarket. He has been arrested and will now face enforcement ...15 hours ago
- Better support for victims of sexual violence
The Government is proposing two major changes to name suppression laws that will put the views of victims of sexual violence first, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “We are committed to restoring law and order and these two proposed changes will help ensure the victims of crime are put at ...16 hours ago
- Government moving forward with Regional Deals
Cabinet has agreed to invite all regions to submit proposals for Regional Deals between central and local government that drive economic growth and deliver the infrastructure our country needs, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown and Infrastructure Minister Chris Bishop say. Inviting all regions to propose a Regional Deal that boosts ...16 hours ago
- MSA pilot participant update
One of the ten young men selected to participate in the Military-Style Academy Pilot has allegedly reoffended. Children’s Minister Karen Chhour is disappointed but says it would be naïve to think that none of these young men would reoffend. “I’m saddened that this young person has not taken this opportunity ...17 hours ago
- Attendance rates increase, again
Associate Education Minister David Seymour says that school attendance is continuing to rise. In Term 3 of 2024 51.3 per cent of students attended school regularly, an increase of 5.3 percentage points from 46 per cent in Term 3 of 2023. “This Government has prioritised student attendance and it is ...18 hours ago
- Improving the lives of young New Zealanders
Ensuring New Zealand is the best place in the world for children and young people is the vision at the heart of the Government’s new Child and Youth Strategy, Child Poverty Reduction Minister Louise Upston says. “Childhood represents a huge opportunity to set people on a positive path towards living ...21 hours ago
- Government continues work to reinstate livestock exports by sea
The Government is reinstating the trade of livestock exports by sea while ensuring the highest standards of animal welfare, says Associate Minister of Agriculture Andrew Hoggard.“The Government will introduce legislation changes to reinstate the trade, enhance oversight, and strengthen requirements for exporters to identify risks and manage the welfare of ...1 day ago
- Speech to the National Quality Forum 2024
Tēnā koutou katoa – it is a pleasure to be here today. I would like to begin by acknowledging the important leadership role you all play in ensuring a quality health system New Zealanders can trust. There is enormous clinical expertise in this room covering a wide range of disciplines. ...2 days ago
- New Zealand’s COP29 National Statement
Tēnā koutou katoa. Mr President, Excellencies, Delegates. New Zealand, and all nations represented here today, are already dealing with the impacts of climate change. Our households, businesses, and economies are bearing the costs of its effects. The choices we make now will shape the severity of these impacts for generations ...2 days ago
- Latest Quarterly Investment Report released
The Government has released its second Quarterly Investment Report (QIR) which shows substantial work still to be done by agencies to improve investment reporting and meet the Government’s expectations, Infrastructure and Acting Finance Minister Chris Bishop says. “New Zealand has significant infrastructure and investment needs. The Government is determined to get ...2 days ago
- New Zealand supporting loss and damage fund
Climate Change Minister Simon Watts announced New Zealand will contribute NZ$10 million to the new Fund for Responding to Loss and Damage while at the annual United Nations Climate Change Conference (COP29) in Baku, Azerbaijan. “New Zealand is joining the global effort to address the significant challenge of responding to ...2 days ago
- Gang crackdown begins at stroke of midnight
The free ride for gangs is over when the clock strikes midnight tonight, with tough new laws officially coming into effect, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith and Police Minister Mark Mitchell say. “Gang patches will no longer be able to be worn in public. To earn the right to wear a ...2 days ago
- LGFA increases borrowing capacity to support high growth councils
The Government is welcoming the decision by the Local Government Funding Agency to increase access to financing tools for fast growing councils to support greater investment in critical infrastructure, Local Government Minister Simeon Brown says.“Communities across the country are facing an infrastructure deficit and significant population growth is projected in ...2 days ago
- Temporary Traffic Management costs revealed
The Government has revealed that over the past three years, the New Zealand Transport Agency (NZTA) has spent an eyewatering $786 million of taxpayers’ money on road cones and temporary traffic management (TTM), Transport Minister Simeon Brown says.“When I became Minister, I was surprised to learn that that NZTA did ...2 days ago
- Jurisdiction of Disputes Tribunal to double
Legislation that will double the financial jurisdiction of the Disputes Tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000 has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith. “We need to improve court timeliness and access to justice so that Kiwis and get on with their lives. Court delays affect everyone, the ...2 days ago
- Protecting New Zealand from foreign interference
Legislation that will specifically criminalise foreign interference and strengthen espionage offences has passed first reading in Parliament today, Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith says. “It is normal and appropriate for states to interact and work to influence one another. This encourages cooperation and can have mutually beneficial outcomes. “However, the reality ...2 days ago
- Significant milestone for Canterbury Road of National Significance
Transport Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed news that the NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) Board has approved funding towards pre-implementation and early works on the State Highway 1 (SH1) Belfast to Pegasus Motorway and Woodend Bypass Road of National Significance (RoNS). “Reaching this significant milestone is a reflection of our Government’s ...3 days ago
- Health survey results to help drive change
Health Minister Dr Shane Reti says findings from the annual Health Survey highlight the need to continue driving better health outcomes for New Zealanders. The New Zealand Health Survey is an annual snapshot of key metrics measured from July 2023 – July 2024. Findings released this morning include: In 2023/24, ...3 days ago
- Final push needed to get to Smokefree 2025
A renewed effort to get people to quit smoking will build on what has worked to date and target the groups who most need support, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello said today. “The latest New Zealand Health Survey results show the daily smoking rate at 6.9 per cent and we ...3 days ago
- New diplomatic appointments
Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters has announced four new diplomatic appointments. “Our diplomats play an important role in ensuring New Zealand’s interests are maintained and enhanced across the world,” Mr Peters says. “It is a pleasure to announce the appointment of these senior diplomats from the Ministry of Foreign ...3 days ago
- Next steps for Regulatory Standards Bill
Regulation Minister David Seymour has today announced the next steps in the Government’s plan improve the quality of regulation by opening consultation on a proposed Regulatory Standards Bill. “New Zealand's low wages can be blamed on low productivity, and low productivity can be blamed on poor regulation,” says Mr Seymour. ...3 days ago
- Red Tape Tipline goes live
Minister for Regulation David Seymour has today announced that the Ministry for Regulation’s Red Tape Tipline is now live. “We want to hear about your red tape horror stories. From today, New Zealanders will have a say on how they are regulated through an online portal,” says Mr Seymour. The ...3 days ago
- Youth Parliament 2025 announced
The Minister for Youth Matt Doocey has today announced the eleventh Youth Parliament will be taking place in 2025. “Youth Parliament offers a unique youth development opportunity to young people from across New Zealand to experience the political process and learn about how government works,” says Mr Doocey. “The two-day ...4 days ago
- Police stats show promising change
After nearly a year in Government, Kiwis have seen significant change across law and order with promising early results shown across some Police statistics, says Police Minister Mark Mitchell. “In August 2023, I told New Zealanders that if they had not started to see a change in public safety within ...4 days ago
- Better coordination of anti-scam efforts
With the launch of Fraud Awareness Week, the Government is committing to new coordination efforts across industry and government to combat online scams, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly says. “Online financial scams are a growing problem for New Zealand. New data released today shows that Kiwis lost nearly ...4 days ago
- Minister to consider 7AA select committee report
Minister for Children Karen Chhour will consider the recommendations made by the Social Services and Community Committee in its report back to Parliament on the Oranga Tamariki (Repeal of Section 7AA) Amendment Bill. “I want to thank the people who made submissions and those who appeared before the committee in ...4 days ago
- Defence Minister to attend ASEAN meeting
Defence Minister Judith Collins will this week attend the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) Defence Ministers’ Meeting-Plus in Vientiane, Laos. “We need to take every opportunity to engage with our international partners, given the increasingly unstable geo-political situation,” Ms Collins says. “New Zealand has a long-standing commitment to this ...4 days ago
- Launching the White Ribbon Ride
The Minister for the Prevention of Family and Sexual Violence, Karen Chhour, was on hand to wish riders well at the start of the North Island leg of the White Ribbon Ride in Whakatāne this morning. The ride helps mark the International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women, ...4 days ago
- Construction to begin on next stage of Papakura to Drury
Construction on the next stage of the SH1 Papakura to Drury project will begin early next month, with the contract for works awarded to Fulton Hogan, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. "SH1 Papakura to Drury is a key project that will drive economic growth and productivity, reduce congestion, and enable people ...6 days ago
- NZ signs trade deal with Costa Rica, Iceland and Switzerland
Trade and Agriculture Minister Todd McClay has signed a pioneering trade agreement that prioritises New Zealand’s sustainable exports at a ceremony during APEC in Peru today. “The Agreement on Trade and Sustainability (ACCTS), between Costa Rica, Iceland, and Switzerland was concluded in July of this year and opens up significant ...6 days ago
- Government and iwi work together on aquaculture
Five new Aquaculture Settlement Areas will help ensure Ngāi Tahu shares in the opportunities aquaculture offers for Southland’s economy, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. “The Aquaculture Settlement Areas (ASAs) I’m announcing today set aside space so the Crown and Ngāi Tahu can assess their potential for aquaculture development. ...7 days ago
- Government launches review to ensure electricity market is fit-for-purpose
The terms of reference for a review of the performance of the electricity market have been released. The review, initiated by the Coalition Government during the power crisis in winter will look at whether current regulations and market design support economic growth and access to reliable and affordable electricity, Energy Minister ...7 days ago
- Speech to Social Investment Hui: Jack and his whānau need our help
Kia ora koutou katoa. Nau mai, haere mai, piki mai. Ki te mihi atu ahau, ki te manwhenua nei, Te Atiawa, Ngāti toa rangatira, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou, tēnā koutou katoa. Thank you, Andy, for your introduction. Let me acknowledge you as the new Chief Executive of the Social Investment ...7 days ago
- Minister of State for Trade heads to Brisbane for PACER Plus meeting
Minister of State for Trade Nicola Grigg has travelled to Australia to attend the PACER Plus Ministers Meeting in Brisbane. “Trade plays a critical role in driving employment, economic growth, and improving the standards of living in the Pacific Region. The Government is strongly committed to supporting Pacific Island countries ...7 days ago
- Proposals to modernise conservation released
Toitū te taiao – Our environment endures The Government is consulting on proposals to modernise New Zealand’s conservation management system, aiming to protect relevant natural areas while supporting sustainable growth in tourism and regional economies, Conservation Minister Tama Potaka says. “Today, the Department of Conservation – Te Papa Atawhai is ...7 days ago
- Grattan on Friday: Marles plays a defensive bat on nuclear as the government rushes to get though la...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Richard Marles is an ambitious man who hasn’t given up the dream of one day reaching the top job. But, despite being deputy prime minister, his profile is much lower than that of Treasurer Jim ...5 hours ago - NEW POLL: Kiwis Overwhelmingly Support MPs’ Expenses Transparency Law Change
62% of respondents support the extension of the OIA to cover MPs’ spending, compared to just 13% opposed and 24% were unsure. ...7 hours ago - The House: Meanwhile, a week of passing law
The political week has been packed with worthy distractions, but all week Parliament has focused on passing new laws. Here are the highlights. ...8 hours ago - The biggest difference between Hīkoi mō te Tiriti and past hīkoi: More support from non-Māori
Analysis - The diversity of voices during the hīkoi was noticeable - from tangata moana to young immigrants to elderly Pākehā from the South Island. ...8 hours ago
- The House: Samoan citizenship restoration – ‘It means we belong to this land’
When the bill to restore NZ citizenship to some Samoans passed this week, Parliament's galleries were full to the brim with members of the community. ...9 hours ago
- More Delays In Action On Use Of Puberty Blockers With Children
Women’s Rights Party Co-leader Jill Ovens says the Ministry has put New Zealand children at risk by continuing to allow “off-label” prescribing of puberty blockers at far higher rates than other similar countries. ...10 hours ago
- Police Minister adamant he wasn’t aware of gang members training at gun clubs
That is despite two papers from police that raised the matter with him. ...10 hours ago
- Shorten declares himself ‘a proud moderate’, saying Australians ‘in the middle’ shouldn’t ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Bill Shorten has declared himself “a proud moderate” in a valedictory speech declaring parliament has the responsibility to ensure the extremes of left and right do not set the terms of political debate. Shorten, ...11 hours ago
- New ‘best practice’ principles for superannuation products are coming. We asked a panel of exper...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Matt Garrow, Editorial Web Developer Studio Romantic/Shutterstock We all know how important it is to save enough money for retirement – but what about spending it wisely when we get there? Even for those who have built up a suitable ...11 hours ago
- Government accused of betraying Kiwis’ trust over lack of consultation on live exports
The government has always vowed to reinstate live exports by sea, which was banned by the previous Labour government. ...11 hours ago
- 7 things you can do if you think you sweat too much
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michael Freeman, Associate Professor of Dermatology, Bond University ERIK Miheyeu/Shutterstock Sweating is our body’s way of cooling down, a bit like an internal air conditioner. When our core temperature rises (because it’s hot outside, or you’re exercising), sweat glands all ...11 hours ago
- Phenergan for under 6s is now banned due to hallucination fears. Here’s what to use instead
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nial Wheate, Professor of Pharmaceutical Chemistry, Macquarie University Australia’s drug regulator has issued a safety warning over the medicine Phenergan and related products containing the antihistamine drug promethazine. The Therapeutic Goods Administration said the over-the-counter products should not be given to children ...11 hours ago
- A new stage adaptation of Peter Carey’s Jack Maggs is a delightful homage to theatrical storytelli...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Catherine Campbell, Lecturer, Performing Arts, UniSA Creative, University of South Australia Matt Byrne/STCSA Jack Maggs is a delight and a homage to theatrical storytelling in Australia. Based on Peter Carey’s bestselling novel, Jack Maggs follows the ex-convict as he lands ...11 hours ago
- The government has introduced laws for its social media ban. But key details are still missing
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Daniel Angus, Professor of Digital Communication, Director of QUT Digital Media Research Centre, Queensland University of Technology Ron Lach/Pexels The federal government today introduced into parliament legislation for its social media ban for people under 16 years. Communications Minister Michelle ...12 hours ago
- Archives NZ, National Library to cut 27 roles
The Department of Internal Affairs wants to bring the two organisations under the joint leadership of the Chief Archivist and National Librarian. ...12 hours ago
- Gang patch ban: Members warn of potential for violence to ‘erupt’ as new laws enforced
"I can't see this lasting unless they have a budget to lock fullas up in jail which I think is absolutely stupid, really it's ludicrous," Ngavii Pekapo, who set up a Mongrel Mob chapter 54 years ago, says. ...12 hours ago
- ACT leader David Seymour raises doubts about Waikato medical school
Government documents show ACT leader David Seymour told the government he was "dissatisfied" with a cost-benefit analysis. ...12 hours ago
- National’s Erica Stanford allegedly calls Labour’s Jan Tinetti a ‘stupid bitchR...
The Education Minister has apologised in Parliament for her remark. ...12 hours ago
- Labour backs new Police Commissioner – but warns against routine arming
The alternative to policing by consent would be a police state, which New Zealanders don't want, the party says. ...14 hours ago
- Youth on boot camp pilot re-offended five weeks after release
Children's Minister Karen Chhour said while it was disappointing, it would naïve to think none of the participants would lapse. ...14 hours ago
- In photos: People of the hīkoi, and why they marched
Hikoi mō Te Tiriti has come to an end, going down in history as the largest march to Parliament in Aotearoa. ...14 hours ago
- ‘Everything is becoming a culture war’: Jon Ronson on conspiracies and cycleways
Ahead of his appearance in Aotearoa, the acclaimed British journalist, podcaster and documentarian talks to Stewart Sowman-Lund about why people are still fascinated by the fringes. The last place I would expect to find Jon Ronson is relaxing in the countryside. The iconic British journalist and writer is best known ...15 hours ago - Kia kaha Lebanon: NZ media only tell half your story of struggle
The United States has vetoed a UN Security Council ceasefire resolution — for the fourth time — in Israel’s war on Gaza, while Hezbollah demands a complete ceasefire and “protection of Lebanon’s sovereignty” in any deal with Israel. Amid the death and devastation, Joe Hendren reflects on his time in ...15 hours ago
- ‘Deserves a Bafta’: After the Party premieres in the UK to five-star reviews
The acclaimed New Zealand drama has just premiered on TV in the United Kingdom, and the five-star reviews are already flowing in. Six months after it was called a “blistering” “tour de force” by Australian critics, and nearly a year since The Spinoff declared it the best drama New Zealand ...15 hours ago
- Drugs are getting cheaper and easier to find in Aotearoa
New Zealanders are drinking and smoking less, but most other recreational drugs are becoming cheaper, more popular and more available, two new reports show. Two significant new surveys about drugs in Aotearoa were released this week, offering a rare insight into New Zealanders’ choice of substances, which ones are becoming ...16 hours ago
- COP29: ‘climate finance’ for the Pacific is mostly loans, saddling small island nations with mor...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Steven Ratuva, Director, Macmillan Brown Centre for Pacific Studies, University of Canterbury Lenora Qereqeretabua, the deputy speaker of Fiji’s Parliament, at the COP29 climate summit. IISD/ENB/Mike Muzurakis, CC BY-SA As this year’s UN climate summit reaches its final stage of negotiations, Pacific ...16 hours ago
- Review: The magic of Wicked and the curse of corporate greed
The new movie musical is undoubtedly a fun watch, but it’s also proof that bigger isn’t always better, writes Stewart Sowman-Lund. Contains minor spoilers for Wicked. There’s no doubt that Wicked is going to be huge. No other pop culture event this year, save from maybe Charli XCX’s Brat, has ...17 hours ago
- Dame Jacinda Ardern to be given United Nations leadership award
She will get the champion for global change award from the United Nations Foundation at a ceremony in New York tomorrow. ...18 hours ago
- NZ will resume live animal exports – to low demand
Analysis: NZ is lifting what was supposed to be a permanent ban on live animal exports. But it’s not the lucrative industry it once was. The post NZ will resume live animal exports – to low demand appeared first on Newsroom. ...18 hours ago - Financial forms of family violence affect one in seven of us – but the law is lagging
There are calls for New Zealand’s Family Violence Act to name economic harm as a standalone type of violence, rather than a subcategory of psychological abuse, to bring it in line with the United Kingdom and Australia. Economic harm – restricting access to, sabotaging or exploiting another person’s financial resources, ...18 hours ago
- Downside Risks To Treasury’s Economic And Fiscal Forecasts
New Zealand is currently running a structural fiscal deficit, with expenditure exceeding revenue. Economic growth falling short of expectations has been making it harder for the Government to bring the books back into balance. ...19 hours ago
- Science continues to exclude Indigenous communities. Fixing this benefits everyone
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jordan Peter Anthony Pitt, Associate Dean of Indigenous Strategy and Services (Faculty of Science), University of Sydney An enduring challenge facing science around the world is how to best include and engage Indigenous communities. In Australia, for example, 0.5% of Indigenous ...20 hours ago
- Why is cricket so popular on the Indian sub-continent?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Vaughan Cruickshank, Senior Lecturer in Health and Physical Education, University of Tasmania Cricket originated in England, but has been spread worldwide by British soldiers and settlers in the past few hundred years. It is now the second most popular sport in ...20 hours ago
- Disinformation and deepfakes played a part in the US election. Australia should expect the same
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Renee Barnes, Associate professor of Journalism, University of the Sunshine Coast Mladen Zivkovic/Shutterstock As America takes stock after Donald Trump’s re-election to the presidency, it’s worth highlighting the AI-generated fake photos, videos and audio shared during the campaign. A slew ...20 hours ago
- Is thunderstorm asthma becoming more common?
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kira Morgan Hughes, PhD Candidate in Allergy and Asthma, School of Life and Environmental Sciences, Deakin University When spring arrives, so do warnings about thunderstorm asthma. But a decade ago, most of us hadn’t heard of it. So where did thunderstorm asthma ...20 hours ago
- Overwhelmed by ever more clothing donations, charities are exporting the problem. Local governments ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yassie Samie, Postdoctoral Researcher in Fashion and Textiles, RMIT University anna.spoka/Shutterstock What happens to your clothes after you don’t want them any more? Chances are, you will donate them to op shops run by a charity organisation. There are more ...20 hours ago
- Friendly fire: a nuclear push by allies at COP29 poses a sticky problem for Albanese
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Quiggin, Professor, School of Economics, The University of Queensland IndustryAndTravel/Shutterstock Prime Minister Anthony Albanese didn’t see this coming. At the global COP29 climate talks in Baku, the Australian government was indirectly criticised by two allies, the United States and the ...20 hours ago
- Nugget Is Dead brings queer love, multiculturalism and Aussie flair to the Christmas movie formula
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Phoebe Hart, Associate Professor, Film Screen & Animation, Queensland University of Technology Julia Firak Stan’s new Christmas film Nugget is Dead is a colourful production that follows the rules of the seasonal genre film to a tee – with an Aussie ...20 hours ago
- Help Me Hera: Should I cut contact with my ex-stepdad?
My parents are finally getting divorced. So why do I feel like my stepdad’s feelings are still my problem? Want Hera’s help? Email your problem to helpme@thespinoff.co.nz Dear Hera My parents recently announced their separation. This in itself isn’t a problem. I’ve already gone through this once before in my early childhood, so ...20 hours ago
- New Zealand Drops In Global Ranking On Climate Action
If the government won’t hold polluters to account, then people will. People are increasingly taking to the streets and the courtrooms, putting their bodies on the line to shut down polluting industries. This will only escalate further unless New ...20 hours ago
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AI will rule. Let's hope it understands what common sense means when it becomes its own regulator. SF has morphed.
AI is artificially constructed by humans with an end goal.
Genuine Intelligence is still pure science fiction these are algorithms with designed outcomes using big data to 'learn' how to achieve the outcome more efficiently.
Your article arrived in my mailbox before you even wrote it, Ad – that's how good they are!
Then, there's this! https://www.facebook.com/photo/
Link is broken
Fantasy my dear man, fantasy . You think you've got it tough, we used to have to get up before we went to bed and walk 10 miles to school in barefeet over broken glass.
Seriously though I think there are far deeper and more worrying things out there that are coming our way than your scenario.
Crazy huh? Imagine if everyone – especially in those freedom-loving countries ruled by presidents and prime ministers with the tendencies of a demagogue – had followed standard pandemic protocols and stayed home for a few weeks.
We wouldn't be needing any of it.
You realise that if vaccination rates were at 100% then there is no need for certificates.
Sure do. But we'd still have covid.
the chinese call it social credit. 🙂
We wouldn't be doing any of it had we taken the real path of freedom. No border limitations, no lockdowns, no mask mandates, vaccines available at GPs simply as a casual personal thing, no MIQ.
Possibly true. But that would have come at a great price of many deaths. And the general population would not have accepted that in the slightest.
Would we have been well enough or even alive to enjoy our "Freedom" though?
And would the rest of the world allowed us to be "free" – international travel, anyone?
Are you "free" to carry out International travel now Robert? Unless you have the right piece of paper from the Government today you might be able to get out of New Zealand but you can't get back.
Well you can, but only after the Government, or one of the Minister's of the Crown reviews your record, decides you are reliably under their control and gives you a special place in MIQ that bypasses the queue.
Or, if you are very, very valuable to them because of your special status they will allow you to bypass MIQ and spend the time at home.
Other than that you can forget it baby. It won't be because of other countries. It will be because your own country doesn't trust you to go overseas, see what things are like there, and then to come back to New Zealand and start telling people that there is a better way that being locked up by Jacinda.
oh, alwyn! The Government is hiding the outside world from us? Crikey! Who knew???
Silly Government though, forgetting that New Zealanders have brothers and sisters, aunts and uncles, cousins and friends living "out there" in the Free World, and that we have communication devices that allow us to talk with them? Duffers! Soon, news of the joyous freedoms we are being denied will filter through to us Kiwis, we'll see how we've been duped and we will rise, rampant and revived, and topple the oppressors!
I suppose you know what you are talking about Patricia.
Can't say that I understand your comment though.
You were inferring people would find it better overseas than being locked down by Jacinda, so I assumed you wanted to leave?
??
I wasn't "inferring" any such thing. Robert seemed to be saying that we, New Zealanders, would be allowed to travel overseas by our Government but that foreign countries might not let us in.
I was simply doubting the truth of the first part of that statement. Our Government might let us out but the shambles that is MIQ would mean we couldn't return.
Would I like to travel overseas in the future? Of course I would. I have friends in many countries and I would love to see them again. That doesn't mean I am going to allow the juveniles in our Government from stopping me from exercising my right to return.
You will be able to isolate at home but if your overseas and a new more virilant variant emerges you might be stuck in sum place like Dubai. Where the cost of everything is astronomical.
Good post Ad. I recommend Jaron laniers 'who owns the future'.
Jaron imagines an alternative that preserves human dignity over these 'siren servers'.
Capitalism is a literal death cult that is destroying democracy and commoditising everything on Earth, us included.
Roblogic so what's the alternative as Capatilism has control of the world.
How do you change a system that's so powerful .Not to mention other systems have failed because human greed a survival instinct has always won.
Workable ideas that don't undermine democracy please.
one of my small acts of not participating in capitalism is not shopping at all with amazon/ali baba shit, kmart, walmart, and other assorted mass produced goods.
There are plenty bookshops, dressmakers, shoemakers, candy makers, butchers, bakers and cabinetmakers to get what i need in live made here by a real person who will feed that money back into the local economy.
I will also not buy an electric vehicle and use the tax payer to pay parts of it, i can still cycle, and use public transport. For when i need a car i can lease or share a ride.
Pretty much anything i eat can be produced and chances are is produced locally. No need for a supermarket to eat imported soylent green.
And so on and so forth. It takes a bit of effort, but it actually works.
We don't need the govenrment to tell us to be socially minded, we can do that on our own.
Non of this would undermine democracy, and fwiw, depending on where you live and what sex you are democracy be something that only applies every now and then.
+100
No easy task. Great resolve there.
Capitalism will fall due to its own internal contradictions. It is a Wizard of Oz shell game built on lies. Like all historic movements it too shall pass. I refer you to this quote:
Signs of the end:
Highly interventionist government will become the norm. The "free hand" of the market is the agent of chaos and the enemy of human flourishing. Something like the Paris commune would be ideal, but with a unique Kiwi aspect. As long as the CIA doesn't ruin it like they have done to so many left wing movements. It is already happening. The world is ripe for a massive change. I can feel it in the air.
Are you sure it's not just the buttered chicken you had last night ?
Vive la revolucion pollo. We are all chickens.
Thomas Piketty, "Time for Socialism: Dispatches From A World On Fire" (Yale UP, 2021). A collection of his articles in "Le Monde" over these years. I haven't finished reading it yet but I do recommend Piketty's "Capital and Ideology" (Belknap Press 2020), which I have read thoroughly and greatly enjoyed.
The Empire is already dead, but the corpse is still twitching.
https://twitter.com/roblogic_/status/1451392972327571460?s=20
Thanks for the link roblogic. A wonderful interpretation of Marx. I often struggle with his style but really feel the demonic religious aspect of capitalism. Such as those that put the economy before people. Something to be worshiped or invoke the invisible hand. This speaks to that reality. Capitalism really is just another religion with all of a religions power that must be torn down.
An icon of capitalism, once ubiquitous even in Aoteroa, always fronted with this slogan: "What, me worry?" As an adolescent it always got me pondering.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_E._Neuman
Wow, if you are not vaccinated then your life is now basically over. You won't be able to go anywhere or do anything without a vaccination certificate.
You won't be able to go to that cafe or bakery where the owner is nod nod wink wink anti-lockdown either, since they will be subject to so many restrictions they might as well shut up shop – oh and NO financnial support from the government for businesses that don’t require vax certificates,
Welcome to the new normal!
So….get vaxxed?
You don't have to get vaxxed. But if you don't, you might as well go live in a cave on the Auckland Islands.
Be positive. Think of it as a marvellous exercise in social engineering. Coercion as govt strategy may seem normal to us oldies, but several younger generations will struggle to adapt. The social darwinism will be something to watch. Fun times ahead for culture vultures…
It is fascinating…like the farmers who claim (wrongly) that there's a rural/urban divide, the anti-vaxxers are claiming they're being ostracised. Which for ostriches, is a bit rich 🙂
You have made me laugh out loud Robert, in spite of my insomnia!!
or like me an some others here in town,
you put your plague door in and do only cubby hole transactions. No one gets in, no one gets out, and i don't have to police for the state – who can't be arsed policing these shitty rules themselves – what people have or have not done.
It will be particularly interesting to see how Auckland Council forms policy to limit its own risk in allowing/denying access to its facilities which include its …………
………………… libraries, halls, childcare centres, gyms, public pools, boat ramps and wharves, Council chambers, concert halls, regional parks, pedestrian-only streets, car parks, bus fleets, rail stations and carriages, council housing, Council counter staff, and of course elected member meetings.
Council will need to form whole digital security systems of alerts, traffic lights, and entry gates similar to those used for HOP cards and gym memberships.
This will take some mighty digital architecture.
Auckland council will have to look at its model projections for a decreasing population,as demographic changes suggest.
https://www.stats.govt.nz/news/aucklands-population-falls-for-the-first-time
Along with China, Japan, Russia, Korea, most of Eastern Europe … and of course New Zealand's plummeting birthrate and immigration will do the same for here.
COVID+recession = below replacement rates all over the joint
Can't see it happening.
Would need the biggest rates hike in Auckland's history.
The Council entry and security mechanisms are already in place, in the form of HOP cards, library cards, gym and pool cards, and building and lift cards … just needs systems integration into the 'passport' interfaces.
Welcome to the new normal. "Bbbb baby – you ain't seen nothing yet", as the song goes. That will probably be our national anthem soon with what is coming our way on so many fronts. Our social cohesion is going to be stretched to say the least. Metaphorically speaking, the weeds in our society will destroy lawn order sooner or later.
It's gonna pose some tricky dilemmas for churches that want to open up to everyone regardless of vaxx status.
Even in Green level, if they have a policy of anything goes, then social distancing and gathering limits will apply.
Personally I think if someone doesn't want to "love thy neighbour" by taking basic health precautions, thus putting vulnerable people at risk, they should go exercise their "freedumb" somewhere else.
https://imgur.com/tBktmd3
‘Welcome to the new normal’ Fair enough, I don't want my tax going to people like Eftpostle Brian and c/o and anti science idiots. A special exemption pass issued by the health department for the few exceptions would cover those cases. We are in a pandemic trying to get control of it before Delta's ugly sister arrives.
The true face of "kindness" starkly revealed?
Yeah be kind, get vaccinated.
Yeah – "Be a GOOD Kiwi"
Have a copy of my old neighbours papers – issued in 1938
Will they do?
Why bother getting vaxed when obviously a ubiquitous certificate will be cheaply copied and sold for next to nothing over the internet?
Same thought occurred to me!
Big Brother is gonna have his mettle sorely tested, if you don't mind my early 20th century English. Will he cope?
Just get the APP ….. the Jizzy one?
It is going to take some miraculous new combination of paper/plastic/magnetic strips and rigorous testing gear wielded by all host bodies (let alone apps on bloody cell phones) to make any of this effective to my mind.
How is it going to be done?
Oh – maybe those alleged microchips in the injections? (A Joke, just to be clear.)
False papers might get you into the venue, but you may get more than you expected as a reminder of your outing.
Kindness isn't unconditional or infinite, unless you're god.
I came across a chilling thread two nights ago – that detailed all of this and more that is happening in China right now. Only worse than your post paints. I didn't link to it because the provenance looked uncertain, but it had enough video and pics to convey something to make your blood run cold.
Authoritarianism in both it hard left and right forms is on the rise again. The way it is done is to eliminate the moderates:
Well I wouldn't mind if this "moderate" was "eliminated" ie removed from the Senate as soon as possible. A living DINOsaur*. He and his co-conspirator Kyrsten Sinema are effectively holding not only the US from making progress on social justice and reduction in GHG emissions, but the whole world. The US can never move on making significant reductions in GHG emissions until the Senate agrees. He and Sinema are the the 2 votes required for that to happen.
*Reptilian Democrat In Name Only
What a load of neoliberal tosh that is.
At its base, one of the repeated themes of neoliberalism is this canonical idea that the logical final outcome of any action by the state is the gulag. This aversion to the state, this stataphobia that the state can't do anything well and if it does it is authoritarianism, is why since the 1970s boomer so-called 'moderates' and 'liberals' have persuaded themselves that collective, fraternal action (socialism in other words) is antithetical to their 'freedom' – itself a loaded term used to mean a rather narrow narcissistic individualism built around a cult of choice. That is why while you will often hear self-described moderates, left liberals or middle class Greens decrying global warming or the excesses of globalisation or the failure of the Anglospheres covid response they refuse to offer any sort of solution other than useless, atomised individualised action. If you say "well shall we centre power back into the sovereign nation state and use the state to set targets for and take over the means of carbon emissions and curb the excesses of globalisation and demand you get vaccinated then?" You'll get all sorts of pearl clutching "Oh no! Not that! That would be communism! Telling people what to do is authoritarianism! My body, my right!" Not so much "One No, Many Yeses" as "Many Noes and No Yeses" then.
COVID-19, the excesses of globalisation, climate change – these all demand a re-assessment of the centrality of the role of the state, which is why tired, tedious centrist blustering about the “authoritarianism” of someone daring to pose the idea that you have no choice about something like getting vaccinated these days amounts to nothing more than the defense of a zombie neoliberal consensus.
Thank-you Sanc for much needed perspective. From my reading, Ad's post is mainly concerned by the power exercised by Big Tech and the lack of government power in restraining their Orwellian nature.
Ronald Reagan claimed: “In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”
That is a neat inversion of reality. The calamity afflicting most of the world has been made much worse by poor government and lack of leadership, obsessed with profits over people.
No one ever said in response to “my house my choice” well "we will offer financial support for blackout curtains and urge everyone to use them, once we get to 100% use we'll be safe from the Luftwaffe."
They said – "get blackout curtains and use them, penalty for non compliance is six days in the slammer and and a big fine."
True, true. The govt had the balls to lock everyone up for goddamn ages. So what's the difference with legislating a vaccine mandate.
I suspect it's still a tool that is being considered, but for now the public health advice is to keep everyone on side as much as possible via a good-will vaccination campaign.
Our Bill of Rights doesnt allow the Govt to mandate medical treatment for all. There are exceptions like a pandemic and when its reasonable and required.
Thats why we so far have limited compulsion from the government in work places where those requirements can be met.
Interestingly Australia has only limited rights in its constitutuon ( free speech from government limitations isnt one of them) and doesnt have a wide ranging Bill of Rights like we have.
The Courts would rule out a compulsion that is for most work places as illegal.
They could of course legislate to restrict the choice of medical treatment but I dont think there would be a majority in labours caucus to do so.
"No jab, no job" is not compulsion. If someone really really doesn't want to get jabbed, they still have plenty of choices and options.
They can figure out how to earn a living from home. Plenty of people already do that.
But at this stage, the unvaccinated are the cause of actual rights being taken away from over 1.5 million Aucklanders, with no options or choices we can possibly make to get those rights back.
If it's that important to someone to not be vaccinated, they should live the lockdown life on their own, not force it onto the rest of us. And they will still have the choice and option to come out of lockdown at any time of their choosing, by doing the rational sensible thing for themselves and the community by getting vaccinated. Unlike the zero-choice lockdown they have successfully extended for Aucklanders.
Yes those are very good points.
The voices of vaccine unreason are so upon us though that sensible points like these get howled down in some circles as discriminatory, losing our freedoms etc etc.
The government is the cause of your rights being taken away, not the unvaccinated.
The govt is just using the unvaccinated as a scapegoat, they could at any time just remove all restrictions and let people get on with their lives, but that would mean giving up their control over everyones lives.
That would also quickly result in a medical system overwhelmed with unvaccinated covid patients. To the point that people needing care for anything else could very well miss out.
Unless the government were to also issue explicit instructions that unvaccinated covid patients are first to get triaged out when the system gets overwhelmed.
At this stage it would be about getting the not-quite-"hesitant"-but-late-adopters to get off their chuffs and get it done.
That would then clear up whether the remaining access issues and the genuinely misled are large enough problems to actually affect our hospital workloads and the crematoria shift schedules. Frankly, when push comes to "you get essential services only" I think the actual number of folks who believe the vaccine poses a real danger will be very small indeed.
As one who is subject to an ongoing actual compulsory removal of my actual Bill of Rights rights for the sake of pandering to antisocial moron vaccine refusers, my good-will is now gone.
Minor consequences resulting from exercising the choice to refuse a vaccine is in no way equivalent to the draconian actual compulsory removal of actual rights that is ongoing now.
Part of the problem is globalisation has weakened the state, while moments of crisis like covid reveal to the public the entrails of how politics works in our globalised neoliberal consensus to manufacture consent and launder decisions.
A simple example of this is the anti-MSM backlash that accompanied the revelation to the general public of how the media worked as part of the establishment during the 1pm standups. The public were able to see the "moving parts" of part of the system in a crisis and were astonished and revolted by it. Hence, the anxiousness of right wing journalists like Luke Malpass to end the 1pm press conference so the elites (which the press gallery counts itself amongst) can get back to conducting business amongst themselves. The constant assault of globalisation and neoliberalism on the state has also led to confusion arising as to where the centre of power – where sovereignty – actually lies. Does it lies in globalised corporations that can act as quasi governments or does it lie within the nation state? Or perhaps somewhere else? The public strongly supports the democratic nation state. The establishment elites, who have hitched their wagon to globalisation and the neoliberal star, no so much.
That is why a particularly strong narrative in the globalised liberal elite consensus is that the idea of national sovereignty is ridiculous. They simply can't deal with the idea – hence the failure of remain in the Brexit referendum, the failure of the US Democrats vs Trump, the "hermit kingdom" narrative and agitation against MIQ of the NZ political right. Instead they promote a divisive and fatalistic form of anti-authority anti-politics and a shallow middle class cosmopolitanism that imagines the world not united as fraternal brothers and sisters in collective action but rather one of dissolved communities (with no borders for their travel convenience) and the destruction of the ability to act in local, collective action. Hence, that is why centrists and liberals now defend "internationalism" and free trade as if they are left wing ideas! The strand of anti-authority is also how, intellectually, anti-authority liberal left wingers can morph so quickly to libertarian right wing free traders. They've always hated the state, once they start getting a buck from conforming they quickly adjust their rhetoric to suit.
But there is no politics without sovereignty because the heart of politics is about where people seek supremacy of authority. If globalisation has peaked and neoliberalism is crumbling in the face of the public desire for stronger statism, what is the road ahead? What is to be done? That I guess brings us back to OP's discussion – if the public don't want big tech/big business making the decisions and hold little sympathy for a narcissistic cult of choice then perhaps we ought to be considering a lot harder the limits of the newly empowered nation state.
Agree one hundy.
Oddly though, 'anywheres' aren't averse to asserting their own authority.
Why did you have to frame that into a classic binary thinking trap? You had a number of perfectly decent points to make – but creating a false dichotomy between neo-liberalism and libertarianism on the one hand, and the nation-state makes for a nice rant, but not much else.
Our complex societies have evolved to encompass ever widening layers of in-group preference. Our starting point was probably no different to that of our great ape cousins, loyal to our immediate genetic relatives only, but humans managed the trick of crashing beyond that hard biological limit into creating much larger tribal and ethnic groups based on cultural behviours. Then came the city state that formalised the role of the ruling class and built larger societies based on authority and discipline.
The phase we've just spent roughly the past millennia in established the nation state – that crucially posited we should governed by rules rather than rulers. The notion that everyone was equal before the law as an individual with both rights and entitlements created the space in which human creativity and innovation directly led to the Scientific/Industrial revolution and everything about modernity we all benefit from.
Note carefully – that at each of the three major stages, essential aspects of the prior one were subsumed but not discarded either. As the hunter-gatherer clan life transitioned into tribal life a new balance between the life of the clan and that of the new broader social grouping had to be struck. But the family did not disappear either – and even now it remains the bed-rock of our social life.
Successively our tribal and ethnic loyalties have not vanished either, their continued survival being essential to the diversity of our world. In the same theme it's obvious to me that the nation-state will endure as well – even as it has to strike a new balance with the inevitable rise of a global world order that subsumes some of it's traditional uncontested sovereignty.
If globalisation has peaked and neoliberalism is crumbling in the face of the public desire for stronger statism, what is the road ahead?
Nuclear deterrence will only take us so far; the unrestrained right to declare war for example is something the nation state will eventually be compelled to abdicate in favour of a global order with the authority to regulate planetary affairs between the nations. Globalisation arrived in the 1800's and despite both great successes and failures since then – it's not going away. My answer to your question is not a shallow jingoistic revivalism, it's to suggest that the ancient pattern of the past will repeat itself – that prior social orders strike a new balance with the emerging larger ones.
The weakness of globalisation to this point is that in 2021 qw live in a deeply interconnected and interdependent world (COVID is evidence enough of this), but we have yet to fully develop the formal institutions capable of imposing true order upon it. The unrestrained power of BigTech is a good example of a problem with global scale, that the nation states no matter how empowered can never effectively grapple with. In this light we can see that most of the big problems we face are global in nature, but we lack the democratically accountable institutions with the scope, authority and means to address them at that same scale.
rules rather than rulers
More user-friendly. Too bad we got no opportunity to co-create those rules. That's the problem with the inertial inheritance of social systems. Rules issued by the ruling class preserve tradition.
prior social orders strike a new balance with the emerging larger ones
Practical holism is indeed how nature & human society operate. Thank Jan Smuts for that gnosis!
democratically accountable institutions
These imaginal social organisms are normally distinguished by their lack of accountability. The lack stops them becoming real. The gfc proved the point yet again. Yet again everyone moved on instead of solving the problem. Too-hard basket full to over-flowing…
None of these great social transitions happened without much resistance and turbulence. Look for example the centuries of war that Europe had to endure in order for the medieval aristocratic ruler based system to find a new balance with the 'rule of law' based nation state.
And I'm certain that back then there would be plenty of people claiming that this 'new fangled nation' would be 'too hard' and undemocratic.
"BigTech is a good example of a problem with global scale, that the nation states no matter how empowered can never effectively grapple with"
Germany has a law explicitly against Nazi-ism which means their social media is not infected with RW Nazi adjacent crap. China has a unique lack of compunction in reining in oligarchs and tech titans. It can be done. But here in NZ we bow and scrape before global parasites like Peter Thiel and movie moguls.
https://twitter.com/NotBrunoAgain/status/1451516742660931584?s=20
Phew, glad you're back Sanctuary. This site needs your clear understanding and perspective.
Back in the 1990s I did something quite unusual in the scheme of things. It was a time in my life when I was looking for a fresh start and to do something new. I hit upon joining the ACT Party. At the time I had little understanding of its political philosophy but I did know a number of people who were involved.
A couple of years later I came away shell shocked from the experience. The lack of a level of comprehension concerning the reality of NZ's problems were simply staggering. I may write the story of that involvement one day but at present I am struggling to recover form a very nasty gastro bug,
"I am struggling to recover form a very nasty gastro bug,"
An understandable reaction to hanging out with ACT
Thank-you for helping me to smile again. 🙂
I normally by my veges and fruit from a local fruit mart because they wash them before putting them on sale. I was in a hurry and grabbed some unwashed carrots from the local supermarket and didn't give them a proper clean. The one I eat raw tasted funny. Think that was the source or it might have been an egg,
Whatever, the moral of the story – only purchase raw vegs and fruit you know have been washed, and wash them again when you get home.
I've been crook for 10 days and am still far from fully recovered.
Life is such fun sometimes. 🙁
I wash all veg and then soak for 5 min in a mix of white vinegar and water or salty water and re-rinse for raw eating, and eat it freshly prepared..
The water they spray veg with at the supermarket can be full of bugs.
This has worked for us for 30 years since a similar experience. You need to keep your fluids up and when you can face it real yoghurt repopulates the system. All the very best.
Thanks for that tip re white vinegar. I am normally vigilante about washing fruit and vegs, but have slackened off during these Covid times. Yeah, lets blame it on Covid. 🙂
Trotting out the word 'neo-liberalism' repeatedly is what passes for left wing thought still. You do realise the 80s was quite some time ago.
At a time when the state is intervening in our lives as never before, I'm saddened to see people so frightened and mistrustful of their own agency that they demand only more.
Imho it's saddening indeed to see so many throwing their toys out of the cot over 'state intervention' during a global pandemic – mind you, some may have more to throw and be bigger tossers than others.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/pages/coronavirus-alert
Thanks Drowsy M Kram, "bigger tossers than others". Lol
You've already had your pandemic state intervention. It was entirely justified on the basis of a temporary emergency, but using this to extend it into a permanent condition is a whole other matter.
We’ve each endured and/or benefitted from those interventions – pleased (and frankly amazed) that effective vaccines against Covid-19 were developed and rolled out so quickly.
Pity about Delta, but the vaccines and improved treatments may give our public health professionals a fighting chance as the virus spreads through NZ.
Do you believe this "temporary emergency" is over? I wish it was so – indeed I wish this pandemic had never happened. But it did happen, and it's still happening. They may be just numbers to some, but imho global daily new Covid-19 cases and deaths won't be back down to their 2nd of October 2020 levels anytime this year, and that's a fair few more people not living with Covid, any way you slice it.
I don't expect "pandemic state intervention" will be "a permanent condition", but I do expect some form of intervention (be it public health measures, financial support for affected businesses, or whatever) to continue for the duration. Those calling for an end to state intervention/support, just when case numbers are taking off, baffle me, but they must have their reasons.
On a happier note, we 'won' last Thursday's lottery and managed to organise an MIQ voucher for Dad to fly back to NZ (on Xmas day no less!) after 16 mostly happy years in Queensland. Trans-Tasman travel may be a free-for-all by then, but I've found that the best remedy for pandemic uncertainty is patience – and getting vaccinated, of course.
That is very good news for you – and I trust your father's return goes smoothly for you all. The opportunity to travel is very much woven into our modern lives and while I accept the shape of it will alter in the next few years, there are literally millions of people around the world trapped into making very sub-optimal choices this past two years who will greatly welcome it's resumption.
Back in WW2 the British people accepted all manner of impositions and sacrifices toward the war effort, and the leader who inspired them through that duration is still remembered and deeply revered despite his manifest flaws. Yet it's instructive to also remember all that state intervention into people's lives was not exactly welcomed either – and at the first moment possible – Churchill was promptly voted out of office.
And the Labour parties "interventionist" welfare state was immediately voted in.
In both the UK and NZ.
Fair call. But there is difference in nature between the kind of wartime intervention that demands your sons die in battle, you line up for ration books, your children get evacuated to places far away – right down to the local Home Guard being empowered to barge into your home to enforce black out – all of these being very personal, intimate interventions.
Your post-war Labour parties implemented policies that intervened in ways people found far less personally intrusive – and largely welcomed them for this. The harsh wartime lesson about the power of collective sacrifice and action persisted for at least another generation, but people still hankered to reclaim their personal lives and agency.
It's also instructive to remember that not all state impositions and citizen sacrifices ended with the cessation of WWII hostilities.
The U.K. has lost ~140,000 people to Covid-19 so far (although the death toll for the last seven weeks has averaged barely 130 per day), which is small beans compared to the lives lost during WWII (384,000 soldiers killed in combat, and 70,000 civilians), or during the Spanish flu.
It's a different story in the US, where Covid-19 deaths to date outnumber total WWII deaths (405,399) approximately 2-to-1. By comparison, the 28 tragic Covid-19 deaths in NZ pale into insignificance against the 12,000 NZ soldiers killed during WWII.
My point is that the Covid-19 pandemic is a significant on-going global 'event', requiring serious state interventions and impositions. I'll be disappointed if public reaction to these interventions costs our government the next general election, because in my opinion govt MPs have generally acted in the best interests of the team throughout.
I'll be disappointed if public reaction to these interventions costs our government the next general election, because in my opinion our political leaders have generally acted in the best interests of the team throughout.
That may be true – but this is no grounds for complacency. The extraordinary rise of ACT, who for several decades have struggled to rise out of the statistical noise floor, is no coincidence.
The reasons are not hard to divine – ACT's polling will not likely be driven by their economic policies – but by a perceived narrative that they're they only party willing to stand up for the legitimate role of the individual in balance with that of the state.
You don't have to be an anti-state, anarchist libertarian to want to tick that box.
Thanks for the helpful reminder to all those with a hankering "to tick that box" of who they'd be voting with – the self-interested.
That's a sword that cuts both ways – how many people might vote Labour except they don't want to run with the hard-left, cult of woke identitarian crowd?
Every political leaning has it's extremists who take a good idea and go too damn far with it – and who treat moderates as their mortal enemy.
Your could be right about some voters believing that Labour is "hard-left", but do you believe it? I'll settle for a NZ government genuinely trying to act in the best interests of all Kiwis.
I watched the traffic light thing on Friday and for the first time I actually h8ted the PM. Keeping us locked down with no solid end in sight was a huge disappointment. After the "Vaxathon" there was so much positivity and hope that we would get out of this thing together.
But no. We get a crappy alert system reminiscent of the failed War on Terror. It is such bollocks. Just let the DHBs go back to managing public health as normal. Stop locking us all up FFS. It was an emergency measure for a limited time.
Labour's overreach is becoming politically toxic and all the good work that Labour and the Greens have done to address some of the worst systemic injustices in Aotearoa are about to be undone by the rise of ACT and the incomprehensible resurrection of Judith Collins.
Roblogic, you'll get your wish soon I reckon, and the cost of our govt’s acts of political pragmatism won't be shared evenly, that’s for sure.
I think we have reached the point where public health advice has to be weighed against what is politically feasible. Goodwill has run out. Labour's Orwellian lockdown addiction will be its downfall. 1.8 million locked at home vs an unknown number of potential covid cases.
It's a shitty situation and there are no good options. The resentment is brewing, whether it is fair or justified is another question.
Goodwill will be in short supply in Auckland, but "run out"? The purpose of alert level 3 measures is to limit the freedom of the Covid-19 virus to spread and cause more illness and death.
What are the actual rules for the current Covid (Delta) alert level 3 – are 1.8 million really "locked at home"?
During shitty periods of history, such as global pandemics, resentment often grows and spreads (lightening fast in these modern times of social media) – just like a virus. Since it's pointless resenting a virus, thank goodness our govt is on hand to be a lightning rod for all that public anger and resentment welling up.
Tbh, I'm less concerned about "an unknown number of potential covid cases" than I am about the unknown number of serious (hospitalised) cases and deaths.
Thanks Patricia (and to RL @9:49 am) – wishing you a happy New Year too.
Which is far from "over".
You do realise that the Neo-liberal disaster inflicted on us since the 80's, is still very real for the majority of New Zealanders.
Those of us that were recently being lauded as essential workers, for example.
Many now going to be thrown back into under or no employment again, as the supply of "Globalised" cheap labour resumes.
At its base, one of the repeated themes of neoliberalism is this canonical idea that the logical final outcome of any action by the state is the gulag.
When it's being cheered on by people here who seem to be auditioning for as camp guards- then maybe the thought isn't quite a silly as you claim.
Strawman!!
I notice the reaction to a post, a while back of mine, about the previous Governments extension of “search and survelliance laws” got a resounding “Meh!’
That gross overreach of State power didn’t seem to worry the “moderates”.
And then we get conniptions about “Police States”, when we have entirely justified during a pandemic, public health rules to protect people from dying and don’t forget losing health, businesses and jobs if covid takes off.
Inconsistant much.
You are scaring yourself, RedLogix! Turn of the Scare-a-tron!
"neo liberalism" is a naughty word, says the guy that throws "woke" around.
Prescient catastrophising – I felt a few pre-'A.I. quake' tremors only 30 minutes ago.
It’s one way to spent political capital – if only I had a cellphone.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance
Well although im a week away from my second vax , I'm not going to participate in the show me your papers authoritarianism thats going to cleave 5-10 percent of people from normal NZ society and pit the vaxxed v the unvaxxed.
This is going to be an absolute shit show that will tear us apart. We've already got people blaming Maori that we arnt already at 90 percent and able to move to red.
Enjoy doing… well, not a lot.
So be it.
That 5-10 per cent are threatening us all with covid …so stuff those so called free thinkers as they call themselves (arrogant…moi?) let them exist only in their weird non vaxxed world with their mate Brian
So you agree with National and if you are not vaccinated – you had your chance!
Getting vaccinated doesn't magically stop you getting covid and spreading it all over the place.
Are vaccinated who get covid threatening us all, or does this only apply to un-vaccinated?
Non vaccinated correlates with spreading COVID. RWNJ correlates with spreading lies.
https://twitter.com/HumptyDumpty34/status/1446957399177248768?s=20
You're peddling misinformation Chris, vaccinated people are able to catch & spread, yes, but are LESS LIKELY to. Unvaccinated are wide open to the virus.
" vaccinated people are able to catch & spread, yes, but are LESS LIKELY to. "
Care to post a reliable link to this finding, though I might have missed this finding, but no offence, but think you might be a tad mistaken in your understanding.
The vaccination makes you massively more unlikely to require intense medical treatment and clog up and screw our health system, because your immunity system has been taught to recognise it and deal with it as best as possible.
I personally have read nothing that says it means you are less likely to spread it if you get it. It doesn't magically mutate the virus and make it less spready.
It appears that there is real world data to say that the few vaccinated people that get covid are then less likely to pass it on.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
or a much more readable report of the same study:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/vaccinated-people-are-less-likely-spread-covid-new-research-finds-n1280583
A key point, though, is that to transmit covid, you first have to have got it yourself. The vaccine still does a very good job against this, even if it's slightly less effective against Delta than it is against the original strain.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/the-vaccinated-arent-just-as-likely-to-spread-covid/620161/
To put some numbers to it, it appears Delta has an R0 (basic reproduction number) of about 6 in an unvaccinated population. Meaning on average, someone that gets Delta will infect 6 other unvaccinated people.
Pfizer effectiveness against Delta has wildly varying estimates, at least partly depending on whether vaccinated people are regular tested (such as healthcare workers) and asymptomatic infections are detected, in which case Pfizer effectiveness might be as low as 60%, or just symptomatic infections are recorded, in which case Pfizer effectiveness might be up around 80%.
For the sake of illustration, let's use the 80% effectiveness number, since there's some evidence that asymptomatic infections are very unlikely to result in transmission.
So then our original R0 of 6 gets reduced to an Rvaccinated of 1.2 in a 100% vaccinated population. That is, of the 6 people that would have got a symptomatic infection, 80% are protected by the vaccine, so only 1.2 of them get infected. R is still greater than 1, so the outbreak still grows.
But if a vaccinated person is even just 20% less likely to pass on their infection to someone else, that R value drops to 0.96 (1.2*0.8). Ta daa, R is less than one, so the outbreak dies out, slowly. Now, if other control measures such as masking and distancing are also used, dropping R still further, then the outbreak dies out faster.
From your link
This was my point
"It's likely that people who have been vaccinated clear the infectious virus from the body faster."
Apologies. Realsied the post you were answering wasn't one that said it.
I have said the vaccine probably makes you spreadable for less time as your body gets rid of it quicker.
But while infectious and you are spreadable you aren't less spreading it just because you have been vaxed
Given that there's real world data showing that the few vaxed people that end up getting infected transmit less than unvaxed infected people, the exact reasons why seem kinda pointlessly theoretical.
Nevertheless, there are issues around viral loads deeper in lungs being different vaxed to unvaxed and that the finer aerosols responsible for transmission are mostly generated deeper in the lungs, that suggest there's more to it than just the time duration of infection.
Probably there's still yet other factors that nobody has yet thought of and investigated.
it is correct Chris, vaccinated can get covid. less likely yo, less likely to spread it on, far less likely be in hospital or a coffin. vaccinated folk have done the right thing.
I might believe less likely to spread for the same length of time as probably get over it quicker, and it is subsided to nearly zich, but pushing it to believe in the time frame of getting it and them being transmitters to non transmitters they are less likely to give it to a vaxed person.
You may not have read my other posts btw way re vaccination. I ain't anti. Had my first. Having my second probably next Friday. Just need some man up pills before hand and I am not ruining a long weekend, if it turns out like the first.
That was a very ugly post btw sorry, re-reading it.
Probably should have just said.
I need a reliable link to show vaxed people spread less while when in a transmissable state of having Covid over non vaxed.
But I would under stand if for vaxed people this period is probably a lot shorter, given the immunity system actually knowing how to fight the f'er
"People" already blamed Maori: what's new? You're not "going to participate"? Bold claim! Happy to stay at home, are you?
Sure, I've got my plant collection to keep me occupied, can always get outside and walk so some fishing etc.
Not the end of the world.
I take it you're happy to see a chunk of people cleaved off from society whats 5% of 5000000…
Do you use a bank card? an AA card? Credit card? Retail card? Club card? Community Services Card? They know all about you already. Those who choose not to be vaccinated have made a choice not to support the Health and Safety Mandate to use the vaccination card.
Fine, that precludes them joining large groups because they could be sick and in one visit make 6 other people sick.
A smart phone? A computer online? Even your smart tv collects & sends information on you.
Um, of course. What I'm saying is I wont be using the Vax passport system as rolled out. Nothing to do with data im well aware that information is endlessly collected.
Thats because I dont agree with a system that is going to pit the vaxxed against the unvaxxed when targets dont get reached.
The societal cost of that is too high, why not say the 'red' phase starts from 1 December regardless?
Many admitted today, the FOMO would make them get vaxed.
I don’t want to be anywhere near the dipshit dingbat anti-vaxxers anyway, the further they revert back in to their dark age caves with the likes of the Taliban and the Wahabbis the better. Get vacced or fuck off.
Apology to the Taliban, who are welcoming in the UN and with women medics, to administer the polio VACCINE to those who need it. You are nowhere near as backward and ignorant as our very own dipshit dingbat antis. Good on you.
Dumb question.
Is the ref to 90% for single or both jabs?
Edit,
seems to be both jab 90%
NOW… DHB's have to be accountable!! Yes.
If that is draconian, bring it on.
My god Mr Advantage – I’m not sure whether to have a bloody good laugh, nod sagely or cower under my bed for the next month. You seem to have found a rabbit hole of quite a different calibre. Neither nodding nor cowering is my thing but slow head shaking is.
Its Friday. The world did not end. I am looking forward to my vax card so I can support the businesses that keep me safe while I am shopping.
I am optimistic to think that those 'playing' at saying they are anti vax will find that in fact losing access to the world is a bridge too far, and that others will be encouraged to get off their chuffs and be vaccinated.
Hostile anti vaxxers can be ignored. We as a country have been held to ransom by these people for too long.
The Maori and Polynesian non-vaxxed I now encounter are actually just pissed off and scared.
I am scared as I did not cope well.
If offered, I will accept the Booster.
Why? Because I have had a virus which badly affected my breathing. It was horrible, and I would do anything to avoid that. Believe me.
That does not even look at the other horrible effects of Delta. That is the truth of it as far as I am concerned.
I feel sorry for anyone who has gone down the rabbit hole. It is a scary situation made worse by some preying on those fears.
The sad fact is some people in positions of trust are peddling false ideas which does not help those trying to decide to vaccinate.
Maori have a greater number of their population in the last cohorts to be vaccinated, so their % seem low by comparison with other cohorts.
"Last cohorts by age to be vaccinated."…. Sorry missed that bit.
It is October, we started vaccinating in earnest on July 28th when group 3 was ok to book, then it took off. We got 750 000 doses shipped in in September by the Danes and Spaniards so that we would not run out before our next delivery which should arrive next week, again around the 28th.
In that time we went from somewhere 15% vaccinated to near on 80+ double dosed vaccinated. With all due respect, no one was held back for any longer then needed, considering that we really just started vaccinating in large numbers from mid august on. That would be 2.5 month ago.
Anit vaxxers are annoying, but they are not what held us back until now. Access to vaccines held us up until July 28th this year. 3 month ago.
Phew, reading these posts is like going to a weird Halloween gathering with spooky people trying to outdo each other jumping out of dark places. I hope a greater proportion of the population just keeps calm and carries on. No one I know is running round in a panicked frenzy.
You say this like it's a bad thing. There is no human right to endanger others because of your own stupidity.
"You say this like it's a bad thing. There is no human right to endanger others because of your own stupidity.:"
I think having access to food is a human right. If you think this is a bad thing, then I disagree.
The PM said "the vaccination card would not be required to get foods or medicines." on the stand up today.
Good. Thanks!
This has come up before in my off site conversations and people saying stop them going to supermarkets as well.
When I point out people need to feed their families, I tend to get after their thinking for a bit. "There is nothing stopping the anti vaxed getting it delivered"
I then point out the obvious issue is the most un-vaccinated areas tend to co-incide with the most poverty stricken areas.
The people most likely to have issues stringing together enough for any groceries each week and now you think they can afford to add a $20 delivery. While using their imaginary internet connection on their imaginery device to do it, as they can't afford that either.
Tends to shut them up.
Cool. Doesn't happen often, but I agree and congratulate Ardern for something. 🙂
Get your friends, family, or neighbours to buy the food for you.
Or you could, you know, get vaxxed, and stop endangering everyone else. Poverty isn't an obstacle – Pasifika numbers are very good. The problem is anti-social idiocy, and people need to stop making excuses.
Well obviously not. But this doesn't change the fact the hardest people that seem to get vaxed are the most in poverty.
It is what it is and short of tearing down their front door and ramming it into their throat Dexter style, they still need to buy food.
As some also tend to have a shed load of kids to feed.
Elderly Maori are vaccinated, so pretending this is some racist plot is nonsense. South Auckland Pasifika – dirt poor – are vaccinated. Blaming poverty is absolute nonsense.
Again – friends, family, or neighbours. Or vaxx. It's not bloody hard. As for kids going hungry in that situation – I'd arrest the parents for child abuse.
Who is blaming poverty?
I just pointed out the least vaxed placed also seem to correlate with least wealthy.
Maybe it also correlates with most lazy medical wise. I don't know, no one measures it
"nothing to stop Foodstuffs and Woolworths doing the same."
Yes there is if they don't want their shops potentially burnt down by one of the few nuttier than the other ones.
Demanding it in places of leisure is one thing, and frankly not that big a deal, but peoples ability to feed their families is a ridiculous notion.
a) Would never happen
b) If it did it I would be atrocious and I frankly
would be as a so far one jabbed person out there with all the lot that protest over it and block their front entrances.
If you want to see NZ get ugly though, that would be a good way to do it.
1 jab is basically no jab. Get the second, with the possible booster we may need once a year til something better comes along.
🙂
I will get the second. Just have to build up the balls and drink a cup of concrete beforehand, after my issues with the first.
Will probably do it next Friday.
I actually think the science goes 1 jab, massive less chance of ICU if unlucky enough to have to go to hospital which atm is rare.
Second massive less chance of needing to actually go to hospital.
Booster. Oh shit it has mutated again and we have discovered this starts to wear off
the second shat me.
book the day off.
Yeah. That is why whatever happens it will be a Friday arvo. If I vommo central again for another 36 or so hours, at least then I have a weekend and time to sleep and try to eat food again before back to work Monday
There went the goalposts again.
once every 6 month more likely. so say in a 1.5 years you would be on your fourth injection. Double initially and your second booster.
Or take life as it is. Science is backing it (1-2% mortality), long term natural immunity achieved from variants coming due to fearful mass vax.
Latest news, no unexpected deaths due to old age since March.
Not sure I've ever seen a primary cause of death coded up as "old age". Old people dying from cancer, infections, heart diseases, pneumonias, injury, all sorts of things.
But deaths due to "old age"? Which ICD10 code would that be?
The 'opening' period has been decided….pre Xmas….all the rest is charade to encourage the highest possible vaccination rate, hence the somewhat ambiguous ,confused messaging.
The government has basically declared a health intervention – double vaxed or face impediments. Covid lockdowns are a health intervention. So too are quarantining people who get TB and come into the country. Other health interventions include banning smoking in buildings, the massive increases in tax on tobacco was a health intervention. Requiring people to wear a seat belt is a health intervention, it reduces the risk of being injured in a car crash. However you chose to describe it, it's a health intervention.
I cant say I ever seen anything so bizarre… individual IRD account numbers have been around since they bought in PAYE in the 1950s.
Digital accounts would have been on the first IRD computers. You have a national health index number too NHI, since the mid 80s?
These sorts of claims of intrusions of state power are fantacists stuff.
In the real world your IRD number is something you may only think about a few times a year, if that.
This expansion is already being used to track and constrain people multiple times a day – if you cannot detect the difference then maybe you do lack much imagination.
This is exactly what I mean by the claims of fantacists….something only you and cognoscenti know about of course.
There is definetly things I ruthlessly prune on my phone to see what permisions the apps decide they want to know about.
would you prefer to be like the old days when it required a visit to a local IRD office where someone would use their own work computer to tell you some minor point.
The biggest intrusion of state power was switching to mandatory carrying of drivers licenses. And that's led to them as default access to licensed premises and other services for decades.
But no, the covid card is the issue, lol.
From purely personal opinion I think it is getting a bit silly.
I heard people who were vaxed today on talkback blaming Maori for the lockdown still being their and calling anyone who was hesitant to getting it an anti-vaxer.
I heard people hesitant to be vaxed hand out the most stupid reasons since Trev who hypothetically drives a milk truck every morning for not getting it.
Geezes. The whole thing relies on the govt roll out Vax certs, and gear to scanthem throughout the country, and let's face it. They will screw it up like everything else big they have tried to organise.
And while I am at it 90% is a stupidly too high figure. I know she wants to try to get higher countries, for kudos, but a bit of realism.
It is not healthy having your own govt promote a "them and us" attitude. We have seen it before in other countries
Claptrap. Since February 2020 the NZ government has coordinated a pandemic response that resulted in a per capita Covid-19 death rate at least 300 times lower than the UK/US. Anyone who believes that's screwing up has a screw loose, imho.
Whereas the Nats screwed up organising a govt in 2017, and the dwindling number of Nat pollies left over from the downright dirty ‘before times’ have been screwing up ever since – it's embarrassing.
Chris T for Christ's sake you sticking up for Brian Tamaki now.
Not at all.
I just think both fellow vaxed people. Anti vaxers. Hesitant to get vaxed people and the govt should grow the f up and realise purposefully creating division between each other is a dim thing to do.
Not sure where you got me sticking up for the leech Tamaki from that post tbh.
I was talking to a mate in the back blocks up north yesty.
He made the point that the PM is responsible for creating, driving and maintaining the wedge that is dividing society. Then keeping that resentment stoked.
'Are you upset about lockdowns? It is their fault.
Can't see relatives? Blame them.
Christmas looking threatened? It's up to that 10%.'
A week ago, I would have laughed it off and had a wee eyeroll. The last week round these parts (TS), is a shining example of this fracture.
"'Are you upset about lockdowns? It is their fault."
Not at all
For the majority of times, I think it was the right thing to do. So not sure where you get that from either.
My point wasn't even about lockdowns. It is purely this "Them and us" crap that is beginning to simmer.
It is not that big an exaggeration to say it is starting to turn a bit Springbok tourish IMHO.
I just think the worst way to get some idiot to actually decide to vax is to alienate the crap out of them, as the idiots will just get more billigerent and stubborn.
What do you think might be a successful way to persuade some idiot to get vaccinated?
It's a genuine question. I've spent many hours already talking to a few vaccine hesitants (politely and respectfully, which is no doubt going to be surprising to readers of my comments here), trying to get them to look at accurate information and providing reasons and talking about how vaccination is simply a routine normal part of life for most of us. I think I've been reasonably successful, I'm fairly sure I'm mostly responsible for one success, and a second feels close.
But the simple fact that they really don't think their refusal to get vaccinated will ever affect their choices and lifestyle seems to be the biggest obstacle to them changing their minds and getting vaccinated.
I doubt that many people in the 15% are anti-vax. They will either just be lazy, or young and not that worried sbout it and need some video of people in ICU shoved in their face.
Just get in their face and go more mobile vans.
I wouldn't have said it has to be 90% in the first place. What is wrong with 85%?
It is a stupidly high number, and purely picked to make the govt look good if they get to it.
Now they have palmed it off to be the DHB's fault if they don't achieve it in each region. It is pathetic IMO
While I support trying to make vaccinations easier and more convenient by bringing the vaccinations closer to people, I really doubt it will actually make much difference.
My acquaintances that I know that have so far refused the vaccination have plenty of mobility and time to get vaccinated. Walk-ins any day at any time have been available to them for over five weeks. It's as easy to get vaccinated as it is to go to the supermarket. But still they refuse.
In more remote areas, I'll give you the example of Hokianga Health (Hauora Hokianga). They're a locally led and controlled organisation that is apparently well-regarded for its outreach and inclusivity and ability to get results in difficult to reach communities. They've already been doing mobile clinics and outreach and trying to vaccinate entire families and associates whenever one of a group turns up for vaccination. They've already been doing everything being touted as solutions for the "hard to reach". Since May. Yet Hokianga South and Hokianga North still are among the lowest vaccinated areas in the country. Indeed, as of early October, only 60% of the workforce of Hokianga Health was vaccinated.
I agree yesterday's announcements were pathetic. They might have been adequate six weeks ago, but the scale and intractability of vaccine refusal since then has made it abundantly clear much stronger measures are needed to encourage vaccinations up to a level consistent with restoring rights and freedoms without breaking our health system.
Yeah maybe.
The whole changing it to DHBs to get to 90% thing or else stay locked down has actually got on my tits more than most of these things do.
It just screams manipulative politician's PR people setting up a if a particular region can't it is the DHB's fault now, and not the govts for rolling it out so slow.
If they all do it and hit 90%. Hey Ardern did that. It is amazing! She's the greatest!
Its an old saying, something like – "Those convinced against their will hold their own opinions still."
Because you have 'seen the light', (and there is an almost born again fervour amongst some vax enthusiasts) doesn't mean others have.
I would suggest more listening and less telling. As frustrating and testing of the patience that it is.
I've done a ton of listening. And learned that some people think their feels and reckons and whatever imaginings they come up with under the influence of whatever is more valid than actual facts and evidence and repeatable controlled testing.
Unpersuadable morons, in other words. In evidence aplenty even here on this site.
The only thing I can see that the government might do to shift them is to make it clear that the losses of rights and freedoms that have been imposed on all of us are soon only going to apply to those antisocial asshole morons that refuse to do their bit to safeguard public health.
You just don't get it mate.
With "unpersuadable morons/ antisocial asshole morons" you strengthen resolve and gird the loins if those you disingenually claim to want to help.
What do you suggest needs to be done differently to lift vaccination rates. Specific suggestions please, not some kind of whines about how peoples fee-fees and reckons aren't being adequately coddled.
Polite and respectful has been done. Softly softly touchy feely has been done. Pretty much everyone that might be swayed by those already has been swayed.
What we've got left are asshole morons that lean towards asshole moronic things like Drumpf-support-adjacency.
Who are the unvaccinated? The "Be Kind" post does make the salient point that poverty. disability, and social disconnection make it more difficult for some people.
But it's been what, 3 months since eligibility was opened to everyone?
I have a few acquaintances (probably more are wisely being quiet about it) who are not just vaccine "hesitant" they are openly skeptical and their heads are full of brainworms making up insane conspiracy theories as to why they should not take basic health measure to protect themselves and their families.
The alternative medicine spruiker who thinks he's smarter than everyone else. The stressed out lawyer who sees corruption everywhere. The fundamentalist-leaning conservative Christian who blathers on about freedom.
It's not a lack of information or opportunity, it is their personal preference for disinformation, and attempts to spread fear uncertainty and doubt to everyone on social media. A certain personality type feels the need to fight society & the sheeple over their misguided cause.
And now they need to face social exclusion for their anti-social choices.
Relax, Andre, it's no longer something any individual is required to do; society is doing the job for you. Our elected representatives have set in motion a process that will bring in all but the very recalcitrant (plus the genuinely medically un-able). We only need now, to ease their anguish, thank them for playing their part in keeping us thoughtful. Dumping on them isn't going to help anything. One thing I thought about last night, was what happens when one group demeans another; that is, the "anti-vaxxers" calling us ordinary folk, "sheeple". I feel that was a big mistake on their part and resulted, to a degree, in the situation they find themselves in now; deep down, we sheep took revenge for the slight. We should be careful not to do that same thing.
Smug sanctimonoius reckons from the wops of Southland that haven't been suffering through what Auckland has had for the last nine weeks and will continue for the foreseeable future really aren't useful at this point.
What do you suggest to do differently to actually lift vaccination rates in your area, Robert?
The likes of you, Andre, maintaining 'radio silence' would help your cause.
Aww.
Somebody wants a nice cuddly fluffy echo-chamber where they're protected from hearing other people's actual opinions. (Actually somewhat sanitised to reduce moderator workload).
Soz that I'm spoiling it for you.
Idiot.
I wouldn't get to excited. The govt has to actually roll out the millions of vax cert's first and work a way to scan them.
Given their record organisation wise. Can't see this before christmas.
Sorry for the extreme delay.
Another thing they should do is fast track other fax options to be available.
A lot of the vax hesitant people I have spoken to seem to have an issue with the particular Pfeizer one.
(Yes I realise some will auto have an issue with the other one as well but if it gets more people vaxed who gives a shit?)
Given that the decision to refuse almost certainly came before choosing a reason for the refusal, getting a different vaccine will mostly only catch those with a sense of embarrassment about their bluff getting called. A sense of embarrassment seems to be kind of a rare thing these days.
Still, as you say, even if it's just a handful more, it's still a handful more.
Sorry Chris, I could have made it clearer, none of that was aimed at you.
The questions and answers were a representation of the daily narrative from the podium.
Fueling a supreme othering.
Your last paragraph is spot on, it is where I find myself now. I must sign up to this ever-changing regime of vaccines, boosters and possibly any other compulsory medication the powers-that-be deem necessary eg flu jabs.. to keep a $25 an hour lawn-mowing and maintenance job.
I have gone from seeing both sides- the fear at the heart of the positions. Fear of a disease and its ravages and fear of the mandates and compulsion, as Red Logix has pointed out the shifting goal posts moved by Big Pharma and the state.
Now I am listening to the wary, shy, reluctant, resistant, fearful and belligerent with a far more compassionate and empathetic ear.
Anyhoo, it is a glorious day today in the 'Tu, time to get outside feel the sun on my skin, listen to the cacophony of the birdlife and get into a few jobs around the house.
Have a great Labour weekend everyone.
A question worth pondering is whether our society is becoming like 1970's South Africa except society is being divided on vaccination status rather than race.
I think society is becoming very ugly at the moment stoked along by our government.
I am double vaxxed myself and would encourage others to do the same. And I understand the health imperatives involved. But are we creating a two-tier society at the moment and is that a good thing in the long run? If we can do this on vaccination status what else can we do it on?
Another point worth considering: We have given up huge amounts of freedoms at the moment due to Covid. But the problem is that once this crisis is over there is no guarantee we will get back all the freedoms we previously had.
We musnt stand in the way of BAU…..and the unvaccinated are.
It is imperative we promote 'growth'
There is a simple, but so significant, difference between vaccination status and apartheid that it makes the comparison ludicrous.
Anyone finding that consequences of their unvaccinated status are becoming uncomfortable can get vaccinated at any time, and start to enjoy any all the extras given to the vaccinated (which at the moment are precisely zero).
Under apartheid, there was no possible way to change one's status.
Yes I agree – comparisons with apartheid are not the most apt. I'd go with medieval witch burning mania's.
Yes, probably a better analogy. I imagine some will soon be baying for the unvaccinated to have needles forcibly shoved into their arms.
You want a choice, you also have to be an adult and take responsibility for the effects of that choice.
If your "choice" is likely to help spread a deadly disease to people who don't have the choice to be effectively vaccinated, society as a whole has a right to protect them from you.
Choices have consequences. The problem with anti-vaccers is that they refuse to accept personal consequences for their 'choice" while thinking it is fine to place the consequences of their choice on others. To endanger fellow workers and others around them.
Not much difference from the smokers, who insisted on their "choice" to smoke indoors near non smokers. Inflicting the health problems of their "choice" on non -smokers.
Vaccine mandates for schools, old peoples homes, crowded workplaces, and other places where you may endanger people who cannot be vaccinated, or their health means vaccines don't work for them, are entirely appropriate.
I don’t support blocking the unvaccinated from supermarkets and health care.
But if they choose to remain unvaccinated they are making the choice not to work in places like old peoples homes, or workplaces like mine. .
Their choice!
I find it troubling you've turned a personal medical decision on it's head into one that is more concerned with other's health. All the vaccines I've had in my life have been about protecting myself from disease/illness first and foremost. I imagine this is the case for others too, No? A secondary benefit is that it may go towards wiping out whatever disease the vax was for. (We know that with the fizer this can't happen though)
I would also hazard a guess that an anti has thought much more deeply and broadly about the consequences of vaccination than most.
But not solely.
Rubbish. Vaccination has always been about protecting populations, other people, as well as yourself.
Smallpox and polio eradication for example.
Prime example recently was the deaths on Samoa due to lack of vaccinations for measles.
A disease which could have been eradicated in NZ if it wasn't for anti-vaccers.
Anti-vaccers are just choosing to ignore overwhelming scientific research in favour of vaccination, since the 18th century.
And vaccination plus other public health measures could eradicate Covid. It is simply that the world has decided that BAU, including drug company profits, is more important.
So you're unhappy that some people aren't taking a vaccine for public health reasons, even though the vax in question has a much greater personal benefit than public health benefit as it doesn't stop spread.
The way you've characterised antis looks very inaccurate to me. If you wanted to convince them how about trying to understand them and make arguments in good faith. As someone once said, public health is about trust and you can't gain public trust if you don't trust the public.
There are a couple of answers to your comment.
You could change your status if you were in a group that SA really wanted to have in the country. Didn't Bryan Williams and 3 or 4 others become classified as an "honorary white" by the SA Government so that an All Black tour could happen?
The other thing is that, after the traffic lights come in they won't cover the whole country. Suppose residents of Auckland get vaccinated and the Auckland area goes to a green status. Meanwhile some DHB in the rest of the country hasn't reached 90%. I, a fully vaccinated resident of a highly vaccinated DHB area will not be allowed the freedom of an Auckland resident. That is an apartheid status that I can't change unless I, God forbid, move North to Gomorrah on the Manakau.
That would be just like Basil D'Olivera who fled apartheid SA for England wouldn't it?
TBF. I think personally from current experience (may just be by locale) It is getting a bit them and us thing. Agree no where near apartheid comparisons or idiots going on about Hitler, which I found funny. But she is getting a bit them and us, and will probably get worse I reckon.
Touchdown in Blenheim!
via Rotorua….which is apparently covid free.
From Te Awamutu which is not.
Lots of question around this one.