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6:00 am, October 22nd, 2021 - 158 comments
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Rachel went to court, Rachel pronounced the verdict: https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/126753711/timaru-woman-trespassed-by-supermarkets-for-refusing-to-wear-mask-has-high-court-case-thrown-out
But would "left-thinking people" agree?? Why is the judiciary trying to get away with a policy of discriminating against folks who are sufficiently competent that they can make a legal claim in a single paragraph?
We know that lawyers are trained to take forever to get to any point they are pretending to make. Obfuscation has been endemic in legal process since empire begain to use it as strategy for ruling the masses. Incomprehensible legal documents of inordinate length remain a useful tool of the patriarchy for oppressing people.
Yeah, specifying a nexus is essential in legal process, damn right! One up for the judge on that point! It was disappointing to see no reference to God telling Rachel not to wear the mask, though.
Traditionalists will be dismayed at this. It leaves open the possibility that she's a postmodern religionist: "No, God didn't tell me that. I listened, but he didn't speak. I deduced that he wanted me to issue my own interpretation of his will. So I did!"
Parliament's Speaker puts rugby on record:
Maori Party co-leader:
Huh? Well, maybe this will clarify:
Two possible pathways to the future: wheel in an ecologist to explain the merit of biodiversity, or wheel in an All Black to explain the merit of keeping an eye on the ball…
Thats a fail Dennis. You've somehow actually managed to write that even less clearly than the herald.
Oh well. Did my best, Nic! I will admit to framing the saga as irreverently as it deserves. Perhaps someone else will give it a better go…
Pem Bird on RNZ was wanting the French vaccine to be made available. Well because its a dead inactive covid cell type it takes longer to develop .Which will not be available till at least April next year. By then Covid Delta will have done its damage . This is irresponsible leadership.
This will be a disaster for Maori who are not vaccinated.
This would be a good headline grabber for Dr Reti who could go to areas where Maori have low vaccination Rates.
Or the Labour Maori caucus could turn up and help. Something urgent needs to happen.
Tricledrown, They did have a very quick meeting in the North at short notice to form a plan of action. Hipkins had written to Reti who agreed to help, but then complained at the short notice "because he was out vaccinating" lol That was a broadside at Kelvin. It is happening. Even with the disagreements and ruffled feathers.
Thanks I think Reti should be Nationals leader he comes across as a very reasonable likeable leader.
The country needs a functioning opposition now.Collins continual Blundering and Panic policy releases is not doing anything for the country.
Reti has been vaccinating up north for a while now.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/middayreport/audio/2018815601/national-s-dr-shane-reti-helping-vaccinate-in-northland
I think the whole thing is explained by the line in your first quote.
""My old propping mate Pem Bird who I played quite a bit of rugby against in the King Country some time ago"
That explains both Mr Bird's rather eccentric views and Trevor's appalling display as Speaker. Play enough Rugby, particularly in the front row and you can expect early onset dementia and probable CTE. Perhaps they should both retire and join the claim of other, although much better, players in seeking compensation?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/dec/08/steve-thompson-former-rugby-union-players-dementia-landmark-legal-case
About a minute in on Morning Report, an interview with Bird.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018817453
Interesting. Murupara currently at 32%. The govt ought to despatch an ambassador to that independent republic toute suite!
Ole Birdie says "We have a natural distrust of government." Well, hard to argue, eh? Been thataway myself since my teenage rebel years. But there's a difference between habitual bias and what folks oughta do when a pandemic hits.
The ambassador ought to stand in the mainstreet & yell "It's like a tsunami!" Folks might notice enough to stop & think.
Oh, just listened to more & Kiri Allan reckons its up to 42% so maybe the message is slowly getting traction.
Ex-Oz top dude Kevin Rudd discusses geopolitics without saying anything substantial: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/kevin-rudd-on-china-a-thousand-pound-gorilla-in-the-front-living-room
You can see why he hit the top of the Labour Party so fast: bland is good! A classic demonstration of Labour intellectual heft is on display here. Spans the entire spectrum from banal to vapid with a pit-stop at vacuous in the middle.
Well, thank God for that!! There was always a danger she might actually listen.
Maybe but krudds joined with Turnbull in calling out Murdoch's influence.
He's also called out scumo on his faiths influence on the role as PM.
A polarising character who IMO is doing his best in their owned media landscape to highlight issues.
So its been mandated that all Corrections staff that have contact with prisoners need to have their first jab by the end of the month and 2nd by December
Even though I'm fully jabbed up I don't agree with this for a couple of reasons.
1. We're getting jabbed up to protect prisoners but prisoners aren't getting forced to be jabbed even though some are getting released in the middle of the pandemic
2. Continuing on from 1, we get the jab to protect prisoners but visitors don't have to be jabbed. If we have to so prisoners are protected why not their visitors
3. If you don't get the jab you probably won't have a job and then if you don't find another job you go on the benefit so from paying taxes and not having the jab you…aren't paying taxes and still don't have the jab
4. No jab no job so why not no jab no benefit given the amount of hold outs in lower socio economic groups
5. I don't like this mandatory vaccine business, I really don't like "don't question the science", slippery slope and all that
Prisons were an issue in the US, and funnily enough one of the largest unvaxxed working group of people in the US are cops.
The leading cause of US police deaths this year.
https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2021
So what's your point PR? I'm sure if you'd been through our penal system you wouldn't be lining up for a jab. I doubt if you would be lining up for a job either ,because you wouldn't get one.
Strikes me your no.5 says it all. You really don't trust science. All the evidence shows it does a better job than a pie in the sky concept based solely on 'faith'.
My point is why is it mandatory for some (Corrections Officers) but not others (visitors)
Science yes, people no.
Pfizer in Nigeria, WHO beholden to China, Thalidomide, The Unfortunate Experiment, Dr John Moneys gender experiments
No jab no hospital treatment plenty of jobs out their PR better paid than a taxpayer funded low paid high stress job.
Dairy farmers are screaming out for workers you could transfer your skills easily enough.
Doesn't take much for the old sexism to rear its ugly head on here does it
Sure I'll just tell my wife to forget her career and uproot her to a life on a farm eh because that's what the little lady's there for isn't it, just support the man
From what I can see your insistence on your wife accompanying you to a new job location is more sexist than anything Tickledrown wrote.
You should probably read it again then
Despite following your instruction it's still not obvious. Could you please just quote the sexist part out to me so I can understand where I'm missing it. Thanks in advance.
The sexist part:
‘Dairy farmers are screaming out for workers you could transfer your skills easily enough.’
I pointed out how sexist it was to assume my wife should just give up her job to accompany me.
If you can’t work it out from there then thats on you.
There was no mention of your wife or her career prior to your allegation of sexism. If you had said "but what about my wife and her career if I relocate to pursue a new career?" and Trickledrown replied something like "tell her to give it up and support you like a good wife should" then you may have a point.
But it seems the conversation on this screen doesn't match the one in your head so perhaps you owe Trickledrown an apology for alleging sexism.
See heres the thing, Tricledrown suggested that I should find another job, a job in which moving would come with it.
Why?
I'm good at my job, I live close by and it pays for my mortgage, retirement and holidays plus its pretty secure work.
Having this job also allows my wife to have more uncertainty in her job so I find it pretty damn disrespectful for someone to just say start an entirely new career in a field in which I have zero interest in without even bothering to consider what it might take to start that new career like its no big deal.
You think of that at all?
Irrespective of whether or not I have a wife hes telling to simply upsticks and move and start a new career
One of the things on this site I've noticed is that if someone on the right suggests someone unemployed move for better job prospects then that gets viewed pretty damn negatively.
So no I don't 'perhaps' owe an apology to anyone.
If we're to end sexism on this site then it needs to be called out when it happens, not let it slide just because you happen to disagree with the politics of the person calling it out.
Thanks for the reply. It's clear there was no sexism in what Trickledrown suggested, at most it was simply a rude and obnoxious suggestion to move elsewhere. Best of luck to you and your wife and thanks for working in your chosen field which must have its difficulties. Please do your best to help rehabilitate your "clients" if at all possible.
yes that's right, if prisoners won't get the jab by the end of the month they should be released! Oh wait..
Oh wait make a jab a condition of being released early
PR your logic is flawed if your fellow officers are unable to work becoming sick it would mean low staffing numbers.A highly risky situation.
Incorrect.
We have low staffing protocols already.
Mainly mean less unlock time for prisoners.
So why did you get jabbed Pukish….shome mistake?
I chose to get jabbed for a variety of reasons but it was still my choice
Trump plays a trump on Wall St:
How scared are tyrants Zuck, Jake, etc?
Real tricky things come out of Wuhan, eh? So yeah, I reckon Zuck & Jake will run scared awhile. Dunno about the strategy of issuing blank cheques tho. Could be financial advisers will look at that & go "Tut tut!"
https://edition.cnn.com/2021/10/21/business/trump-social-media-spac/index.html
Eftpostle Brian – brilliant!
Karl Te Kaha Pearce
20 October at 19:26 ·
The Book of Brian Chapter 2,
Eftpostle Brian lol That's a cracker!!
now do the white evangelic churches that preach the same sermon, just to cover all bases.
especially Hillsong etc.
I don't think there is an official Hillsong position, but Brian Houston (who founded Hillsong) said that it's a "personal decision for each individual to make with the counsel of medical professionals."
Sounds sensible to me.
No… The Health department mandate over rides that.
Some Drs are being stood down for their "Alternative" unhelpful views We need all who are able to to be vaccinated.
I'm pro-vaxx and fully vaccinated, but I'm not a fan of forcing reluctant people to vaccinate. Education, yes. Compulsion, no.
Hi Gypsy, How do you feel about No Smoking? Seat Belts?.. They are mandated.
I remember the moans when Crash helmets were mandated for motorcyclists!
Me too! I was a young teen, but I remember the 'let those who ride decide' stickers. I bought a motorbike in the late '70's and I don't recall needing any law telling me to wear a helmet. I do however remember my mother saying if she saw me take off without the helmet she'd call the police on me. Ah, those were the days.
My 1957 BMW R50 which I bought in 1968. It was originally sold in Pretoria SA. The original owner rode it up through Africa, around Europe, down through Turkey and Afghanistan (as you could in those days) India and had it shipped to Perth. He then rode across the Nullarbor Plain to Melbourne and had it shipped to NZ. I bought the bike in Wellington and rode it for a number of years until I joined the RNZN in 1974. It was stored in parts until 2016 when I rebuilt it again as you see it now. Unfortunately the magneto has lost its magnetism over the past 50 years and there is no spark so it's not going at the moment. 🙁
Macro – for some reason my laptops blocking your image, so I googled a pic. What a tale your bike could tell after all it's adventures!
Neither involve a medical 'intervention'. And with smoking, there's another fundamental difference – no-one can be protected against second hand smoking. But as a fully vaccinated adult, I am extremely unlikely to a) contract Covid or b) have a significant adverse reaction if I do.
Time to get ugly?
The torching of cell phone towers, the sabotaging of the vaccine roll out. These sorts of crimes should all be considered crimes of low level Far Right terrorism, and investigated thoroughly and prosecuted accordingly with penalties severe enough to discourage like minded attacks.
But as yet we have not seen one apprehension or prosecution.
It's bloody tragic, and they are getting away with it.
Why are we spending millions of dollars every year on our security services, who we give extraordinary powers of surveilance to. Why haven't we seen even one arrest for these attacks on our pandemic response?
Do our spooks need a performance based pay cut, to get off their behinds and spur them into action?
I mean, what are we paying them for?
Jenny how did we get to this. I agree.Our spies only seem interested in spying on greenies .what do we spend all this money on .When they don't seem to be able to find real threats.These saboteurs are doing the same thing as terrorists .The end result is people dying so our spies should be chasing the health terrorists. The greenies have killed no one but have had huge spying resources wasted on unnecessary surveillance.
.
Wet, windy day at Gezza's Stream
Sussex University (at last) provides a clear response to demands that Kathleen Stock be fired.
https://twitter.com/SussexUni/status/1451201014875377672
BBC's Question Time shows the uninformed burbling that accompanies discussions. It appears to me that none of the first three, the questioner, the Labour MP or Fiona Bruce have investigated for themselves Prof Stock's work.
That uninformed meandering is abruptly halted when Fiona Bruce asks Robert Winston to respond in regards to his role at Wessex University and he replies as a biologist. (43:50)
https://youtu.be/kY2Fu_IBcOs?t=2386
Dare I say, a typical analytical male response, disregarding the niceties of emotional fluff that the other panelists get tangled up in. Thanks for picking out the only decent bit from the tedium.
You can dare, but go and have a look at 52:27.
Good stuff. So frustrating to see others tangled up in knots about how people should always be nice and polite to one another. Of course, that's appropriate for social interactions. But not for law and science where technical accuracy and clarity of terms is a paramount concern, not tiptoeing around feelings.
"…a way that we can keep vaccinated people safe from those who have not been."
(-5.30)
Question. If the Pfizer injection is safe and effective how is it that those who have received two doses need protecting from those who have not?
Serious.
Switching off the live feed now before they start talking about vaccinating 'pregnant people' and other such un- scientific nonsense.
Our medical complex can still not cope, will not cope as evidenced by the kiddies flue outbreak this winter. No matter how many people are vaccinated. I think that really is the crux of the matter. The fact that for the last 18 month very little was done to bolster our health sector with tools, good wages, retention of people leaving to oz, and training and hiring.
So yeah, us vaccinated people have to be protected from non vaccinated people, never mind that chances are it is the vaccinated ones without masks that will spread Covid like warm butter on a toast, cause 'I am vaccinated!"
disclaimer, i am vaccinated.
So, wear your mask, keep distance, sanitze, and don't insist in large concerts or festivals for a year or three.
Agree.
Like some others here, I am a regular attendee at hospital. The last two regular monthly appointments during lockdown have only taken place because I have rung up to query after radio silence. They just haven't got around to ensuring those regular treatment appointment notifications and schedules are maintained.
It doesn't bode well.
…us vaccinated people have to be protected from non vaccinated people,…
Excuse my ignorance here…but surely your vaccinations protect you from getting sick from Te Virus? No?
And because it is such a clever little injection it will only allow you to be infected by an unvaccinated person. No?
So this apartheid system is more about protecting the capacity of the public health system rather than actually having to physically protect the vaccinated from the unvaccinated…because, like, they are "fucking filth" etc etc?
A public health system…and I should not need to remind anyone purporting to identify as 'left wing'…that has been deliberately and systematically degraded over the past thirty years, at least.
Surely to goodness y'all have not forgotten the horrendous waiting lists that existed in the Beforetimes? The 6 hour plus waits in A & E?
And sorry Sabine…you might be aware that the Miracle Injection from the Pfizer Gods is far from effective at preventing transmission of Te Virus, and indeed will give the Double Shot an unfortunate sense of safety…but many don't because the hard sell has been so relentless.
And also, it would seem anecdotally, that the Double Shot are not inclined towards volunteering for the Brain Scrape because they truly believe they carry no virus. We here are unlikely to ever have a true indication of the ratio of vaccinated/unvaccinated infected when there are outbreaks. Luckily, this work has been done. I assume the PM is aware of this?
Such a pity that our government has failed on so many levels prior to Te Virus.
But hey. All's good. The Double Shot can party hard this summer and the poor, downtrodden hospitality sector can vaccine passport check its way back into business.
i suggest that you read the whole phrase again.
I said '…you might be aware…".
Considering that i said non of what you speak of, i will re-iterate my point again.
Any one who is not vaccinated must and should be scared of any one who is. Why?
Because we can carry the disease, be asymptomatic and not know about it all. If we were to get symptomatic for many of us that will mean sniffles. (As so far experiences from the rest of the planet have shown). Some – might get ill, but the vast majority will not.
The ones not vaccinated however will get ill, and in many cases will die. AS experience so far from the rest of hte planet has shown.
So mask up (always when outside, no matter how trivial), wash your hands, and sanitize.
Not 100%, no. Te Vaccine merely decreases one's risk of becoming hospitalised and/or dying from a COVID-19 infection – c'mon Rosemary, you know this.
Tbh, I couldn't identify any part of your comment @10.1.2 that could be construed as encouraging the hesitant to get vaccinated. It's almost as if you 'think' getting vaccinated is the wrong choice. "No?"
All "Te Virus" 'cares' about is spreading. The opinions you're continuing to spread here are unhelpful, imho, and in at least one way "Te Virus" is better than you – it’s unaware of the damage it's doing.
Tbh, I couldn't identify any part of your comment @10.1.2 that could be construed as encouraging the hesitant to get vaccinated. It's almost as if you 'think' getting vaccinated is the wrong choice. "No?"
Err…not sure what to make of that statement DMK…am I supposed to be encouraging people to get vaccinated? No one told me it is my job to convince others. The Pfizer injection surely sells itself?
What I am challenging at 10 is the statement from Ardern that the announced rules are because we need…
"…a way that we can keep vaccinated people safe from those who have not been."
…how about you address that?
How about you address the fact that our public health system has been so systematically and deliberately degraded over the past thirty years that an expected seasonal outbreak of RSV sent it into a spin?
How about you address the wisdom of our PM deliberately placing a target on the backs of those who have chosen not to take the Pfizer injection?
For very possibly sound reasons.
And if you don't know of anyone who has had an 'effect' and not reported it, you need to speak to more people. (Yes, yes, I get the whole 'not talking with anyone outside your bubble' thing…but give it a socially distanced and masked go, eh?)
The problem I have is that you started by asking,
it’s a really easy google to get efficacy rates, so I’m confused by the question. I have a straight answer to it below, the vaccine gives partial protection.
also confused by you positing that the boundaries the government is mandating are solely to protect the health system. Not sure what you mean, as it’s clear that for best protection of the population we need a very high vaccination rate.
Tell you what….watch this, give it your entire attention (bearing in mind that the host is a dyed in the wool pro- vaxxer who has very possibly torpedoed his popular channel). Hear me when I tell you that what happened to young Kyle has happened to too many our fellow Kiwis (worse, our young)…even having doctors dismiss the very real symptoms and suggest sufferers need psychiatric treatment. Kiwis have been made ill and Kiwis have died and their experiences have been completely dismissed and minimised by our so called experts.
And folk wonder why some are very reluctant to play the numbers on the pfizer injection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7inaTiDKaU
(oh, and I'd watch it soonish as youtube routinely censors material like this.)
Afaik pericarditis is a known adverse reaction to the vaccine.
I still don't know what you are saying re the efficacy of covid vaccines, that's what I'm asking for clarity on.
You said,
Do you really (still) not know the answer to this? Hard to have a conversation without knowing what you actually meant.
Err… did I say that it was your job to encourage people to get vaccinated?
I’d prefer that you didn't discourage people from getting vaccinated, which is clearly what you're doing with mis/disinformation along these (nonsensical) lines:
I stand by my point that your dissemination of vaccine mis/disinformation on this site is more than just potentially harmful during a global pandemic. If you must continue to sow mistrust in the "Miracle Injection from the Pfizer Gods", I'd prefer that you did it elsewhere. To be clear, mRNA vaccines are not miracles, although they do save lives.
On one point we agree – NZ's public health system has been under-resourced for many years. I'm just grateful to the many dedicated healthcare professionals who continue to do their best to prop it up – it must be a tiring and often thankless task.
the vaccine provides partial protection to individuals and society. It lowers the risk of ending up in hospital, or dying, and lowers the risk of passing on to other people. Unvaccinated people are much more likely to transmit to others, including the vaccinated, and to need ICU care and thus putting strain on health system. It’s a numbers game, increasing the odds of better outcomes.
I see it as a game of chance
– Unvaccinated with covid have a higher viral load than Vaccinated so it spreads more readily, therefore:
– The chance of an unvaccinated person infecting a vaccinated or unvaccinated person is higher than a vaccinated person infecting anyone
Also
– The chance of an unvaccinated person* contracting covid is higher because they have fewer, if any, antibodies to it than a vaccinated person
For the same reasons, i.e. viral load +/- antibodies:
– The unvaccinated are far, far more likely than the vaccinated to get really, really sick and end up in hospital or dead.
The immune-compromised are somewhere in-between. They're playing the games of chance, but the dice is loaded against them – they won't 'win' as often as the vaccinated because they may not produce enough antibodies against Covid – hence the need for a third dose for some to even the chances up a bit.
*the unvaccinated may of course been vaccinated the hard way – by contracting Covid – they’ll lose that protection (antibodies) over time, just like the vaccinated – but maybe they’ll prefer the easier way to get antibodies when that happens – a shot in the arm.
– Unvaccinated with covid have a higher viral load than Vaccinated …
https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2074
– The chance of an unvaccinated person infecting a vaccinated or unvaccinated person is higher than a vaccinated person infecting anyone
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02689-y
The chance of an unvaccinated person* contracting covid is higher because they have fewer, if any, antibodies to it than a vaccinated person
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3563
The unvaccinated are far, far more likely than the vaccinated to get really, really sick and end up in hospital or dead.
This may well be true…until the Double Shot need the latest booster. I'd need to see research. Having said that…it is still the case that that for most people with few or no co morbidities Te Virus will not put them in hospital.
the unvaccinated may of course been vaccinated the hard way – by contracting Covid – they’ll lose that protection (antibodies) over time, just like the vaccinated
Two parts to that…a) we generally do not refer to people who have naturally acquired immunity as having been vaccinated. This is one of those strange terminology shifts we have seen over the past 18months. b) not 'just like the vaccinated' at all . https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9
Your first link is a bit of an outlier when searching for viral load – if it's backed up, it still says vaccination prevents spread
The second link says what we've known for some time. That Delta changes the game. Even then, it recommends vaccination and a booster – which is where the world is at.
Vaccination is still better than no vaccination for saving lives and reducing the spread. My major concern (aside from the risk to Immune compromised people) is that if we allow Covid to continue to spread we will almost certainly get more mutation – and one of these will be completely impervious to vaccines and current treatments.
a) yes, I agree with you , just like 'freedoms' is the new word for 'more activities in public spaces'
b) last para in your link
Did anyone else hear Ardern earlier?
Seriously. Only this govt could manage to over complicate and confuse levels more than they had already done.
Seemed clear to me.
Is there a correlation between being right wing and comprehension problems?
Certainly with right wing opinionators posing as Journalists..
On the other hand the ODT seemes to have no problem understanding it.
Is there a correlation between being right wing and comprehension problems?
As eldest son of a hardline Nat supporter in the '50s, who was himself eldest son of a hardline Nat supporter in the '30s, I can assure you that the general answer is yes.
Seemed clear to me.
Me too. In fact I was pleasantly surprised by how incisive and comprehensive her scheme for our path ahead seems to be. Think we can credit these guys:
https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-levels-and-updates/independent-advisory-groups/scphag/
But not just that brains trust – I reckon the PM deserves credit for her clarity of grasp & presentation of their design.
Cool. That is helpful
You can explain a few things then.
By 90% do the mean 90% of sall Maori, 90% of all Pacific Islanders, 90% of all Asians, (0% of all Indians, 90% of all males, 90% of all females in every DHB?
And you can give us the difference in numbers between sparodic imported cases and orange increasing cases?
And what all these businesses are using to scan vaccine cert's
And who is policing the scanning
This appears to be pretty unambiguous.
From Stuff
They even repeat it for those who had problems with the first statement…
So these are the DHBs..
And just to clarify..
If you want to break it down by area – then try the maps here.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data/covid-19-vaccination-uptake-rates-across-nz
By area, it looks to me like the laggard areas are in semi-rural suburbs of the Auckland metro area, and especially over in the North Shore
Unambiguously bad news for those expecting to open up right now. Just Auckland Metro being at 86% means they are 4% (+ 6-8 weeks) away from 90% double vaccinated target. If we had a political opposition right now they would be highlighting that shrinking the 6-8 weeks undermines the effectiveness of the vaccination effort being undertaken, and this is effectively what the government is asking to happen.
It's 90% of all eligible people within all DHBs. That will lift vaccination rates across all sectors. But we won't be constrained if some sectors are reluctant or for some reason unable to be as fully vaccinated as others. The vaccination programme will not stop there and everyone will still be encouraged to become vaccinated.
Yeah, I wondered about the viability of the 90% target. She deliberately gave the govt wiggle-room though – think she said they will review it end of next month. Looks like they will have to target towns/groups of slackers (Murupara for instance) so expect a shift to selective rather than broad containment.
I liked the change criteria on the Red.
One of the things that this will do is to push some of the laggard DHBs outside of Auckland to get to 90% double dose vaccination rates.
If you look at the vaccination data by DHB you can see the ones who won't get changes for a while..
I just want to know when I can get out of Auckland. Still getting vague "it depends" crap from the Govt.
Looks like our whanau Christmas gathering up North won't happen this year because Northland DHB is underfunded, understaffed, and facing an uphill battle.
Staff shortages are severe everywhere.
I know of several people who have had treatments in main centers (stitching, small ops etc.) and the doctor had to interrupt whilst working (! how safe is that?) because of being called to another patient. This is truly 3rd world stuff.
Is this not how the policy is implemented by DHB's?
https://www.health.govt.nz/new-zealand-health-system/key-health-sector-organisations-and-people/district-health-boards/accountability-and-funding/population-based-funding-formula
From "Structure of the model – points 1-3
DHBs are looking better than I expected on that graph. Uniformity of catch-up seems to be happening. I suspect the problems lie in smaller pockets and may need micro-analysis for targeting.
Facebook
Graphic of the “Traffic light” system.
Not sure if changing from “Levels” at this stage is the best idea, however.
We won't be changing to the traffic light system across the motu until all DHBs reach 90% of all eligible people within the DHB vaccinated. Auckland will however move to red when they reach that milestone.
"all DHBs reach 90% of all eligible people".
I live in Wellington. Capital and Coast look like getting to the 90% level before most of the other DHBs. Suppose we get up to 90+% by, say, 1 December. Will we go to code Orange?
Suppose we, and every other DHB except Taranaki get to 90+5 by, say, 1 March 2022. Will everyone except Taranaki be moved to Orange or will nobody move to that status?
Suppose Taranaki never gets to 90+% Will the entire country, with the possible exception of Auckland, never ever get to the traffic light system?
Your comment, which I copied, appears to say that the last statement is true. Is it?
AB, who has commented at 11.3 seems to think it is totally clear. Perhaps he (she?) would care to answer as well.
Short answer. No.
Taranaki is currently at 81% of eligible persons with a single shot. Capital and Coast at 89%. I'm not sure what you are worried about.
Broad outline seemed pretty simple to me. I have always suspected that most of the people who claim this stuff is 'confusing' can't be arsed trying to understand it, don't watch the press conferences because they are 'propaganda', and are simply inherently anti-Labour. If John Key was slurring and shrugging his way through the same stuff and assuring us he was comfortable with it all, they'd say he was masterful and isn’t it great to have someone with ‘business experience’ as PM.
You need to pay attention Chris. Things are bound to be different under the non-elimination regime.
Why is it that only Nat and ACT voters can't understand these things?
"Why is it that only Nat and ACT voters can't understand these things?"
Lol. Ouch!
I am a lot of things, including probably thick for thinking the govt is just over complicating things.
But I am not and never will be an ACT voter lol
Here is a pdf of the traffic light rules.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300436106/live-government-sets-90-per-cent-vaccine-target-for-no-more-lockdowns
5.4 magnitude. Just how bad is that?
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126760514/54-magnitude-earthquake-strikes-lower-north-island
Let’s hope it is not a magmatic earthquake.
I felt it. It was a weird one. Not rolling. Just one quick big jolt
The Gods are angry?
Just wonder what Ken Ring might advise (though there is a full moon about)!!!
When the war is over. Aren't you meant to release prisoners of war?
https://www.commondreams.org/news/2021/10/21/historic-victory-us-judge-rules-guantanamo-detainees-imprisonment-illegal?
Oh, that's right they aren't prisoners of war. They are 'unlawful combatantts'. (it's not kidnapping if we do it).
And the war isn't over, after being beaten on the ground President Biden says the U.S. will continue with, 'Over the Horizon" attacks. (it's not terrorism, if we do it).
On a lighter note:
Well, we've just cleaved somewhere between 5 and 15% of our population from society.
What could possibly go wrong….
From Facebook:
"So we're now told if we dont take a government mandated medicine of which there is no other choice available we will be excluded from society and be the targets for vitriol and hatred. Sounds like Jacinda just introduced apartheid NZ style"
That's something repeatable should see some of the stuff directed at Maori which I wont repeat.
Fuse is lit.
In France if you don't want to vaxx they offer you the option of getting (and paying for) a negative covid test in the previous 72 hours if you want to get into a venue, That sounds like a better system to me
Yes, there are other options especially around saliva test and rapid tests.
I've got a really bad feeling about what happens next.
Wouldn't our WW2 vets be so proud today…
'..of New Zealanders doing what they have to..
Given that military conscription is so many rungs further up the authoritarian ladder than the vaccine rules that seems like a rather stupid thing to say. That before getting to the ridiculous comparison with what the Nazis were up to.
If we don't get out of this stupid lockdown by Christmas I will either kill myself or vote ACT
That is a bit drastic …I mean voting ACT
Yes and the result will be the same anyway.
i can send chocolate?
Whisky preferred. It takes the edge off
well, you can not say i did not try! 🙂
Try under youtube seeking ralfy he does the hard work tasting to give his opinions, ( and his background is working class from Glasgow so he has credibility 😇) and he supports non-chill filter and no added colours and no accountants watered down 40abv
@Hero thank you thank you thank you.I shall retreat to my Bothy.
Have a double Robologic.
have seen this floating about for a few days now
buckle in, the ride is bumpy.
.
swordfish on Twitter: "Unprecedented swings from National & Non-Voting to Labour at the 2020 General Election: Highlighted by comparing major swings at the 1999, 2008 & 2020 New Zealand General Elections (I've calculated the 𝑹𝒂𝒘 𝑽𝒐𝒕𝒆 𝑭𝒍𝒐𝒘 from NZES & Vote Compass Flow-of-the-Vote stats):" / Twitter
.
.Unprecedented swings from National & Non-Voting to Labour at the 2020 General Election: Highlighted by comparing major swings at the 1999, 2008 & 2020 New Zealand General Elections (I've calculated the 𝑹𝒂𝒘 𝑽𝒐𝒕𝒆 𝑭𝒍𝒐𝒘 from NZES & Vote Compass Flow-of-the-Vote stats):
This doesn't of course take into account reciprocal swings … there are always counter-swings going on in the opposite direction … so a more complex understanding would involve a focus on the overall 𝒏𝒆𝒕 vote gains or losses between the various parties.
b
The population health results of Ardern's announcements today, tracked to Christmas 2021, are just such an axial point for voters. Still quite a way to 2023, but it's a pivot for whole segments of voters.
The population health results of Ardern's announcements today, tracked to Christmas 2021, are just such an axial point for voters. Still quite a way to 2023, but it's a pivot for whole segments of voters.
I predict that half of Auckland will vote for anyone who promises NOT to lock them up in their houses for months on end. Kindness is over. Let us out Jacinda. 10 weeks+++ is too much.
And there is still no clear path out other than "just get 99.99% of everyone vaccinated, and the neighbour's dog as well, then I will think about it"
Pathetic. Petty. Authoritarian. Careless of people's need to get on with life.
People need to get on with life? Life? Ya mean, stayin’ alive?
Life without human connection is not worth living.
Exactly. Which is what immune-compromised people are looking at with covid on the streets.
Cool lets stay locked up for another 6 months then. Sounds eminently realistic.
Lockdowns are the opiate of champagne socialists | The Spectator Australia
It is what it is.
roblogic You along with chris t need to ring Help line !
I'm not kidding.
Are you in Auckland?
.
Labour & Green reciprocal swings 2008-2017:
swordfish on Twitter: "@appleqwerty Don't have 2020 Lab to Green swing yet … but: https://t.co/iQEkHabRRn" / Twitter
This is interesting that Radius Care have had enough of lockdown and are opening up for visitors.
Radius Care: Retirement village chain to allow visitors for residents' mental health (newstalkzb.co.nz)
The more fractious the residents, the higher the staffing levels so damn the torpedoes, open the doors and pay the fines.
/
"Radius Care" have "had enough"! All change! Radius Care have HAD ENOUGH!!!!
Perhaps they are trying to make Shaun Hendy's model prediction more accurate!
Perhaps some of Hendy's model predictions included a 'had enough factor'
At least there is employment on the way for young fellas with a shovel, courtesy of Radius Care, good on them for looking out for the yoof.
"young fellas with a shovel" – Lordy!
Totally left field one, but I needed a break from everyone going on and on about Covid.
Alec Baldwin just accidently killed one person and wounded another with a prop gun.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/oct/22/alec-baldwin-fired-prop-gun-woman-death-movie-rust-sheriff
" Alec Baldwin fired prop gun accidentally killing a woman on set of movie Rust – sheriff
Alec Baldwin fired a prop gun on a movie set in an accident that killed a photography chief and injured a director, authorities in New Mexico have said.
A statement from the Santa Fe Sheriff’s office said Baldwin, who is acting in and producing the film Rust, had fired the prop gun in an incident on Thursday.
The statement said deputies were dispatched to the set around 2pm in Bonanza Creek Ranch when a 911 caller reported a shooting…………"
Its not that hard.
Treat all weapons as loaded, don't aim at anyone and don't put your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire.
Yeah, know what you mean.
Was how Brandon Lee (Bruce Lee's kid) bit the bullet (pardon the pun), from memory.
Jon-Erik Hexum as well (real blast from the past)
And systems. Lots of systems, developed in response to how rare incidents happened and could have been prevented.
Read an article by a movie armourer ages ago, talking about how asome of these incidents can happen, and in particular deconstructung the Brandon Lee incident and the standard industry practises that meant it shouldn't happen again. According to the article, part of the problem with that scene was that the production was being rushed and they'd deviated from the plan.
Because of the rush they hadn't checked that the barrel was unobstructed. So especially since then the angles were usually worked out that if someone was supposed to be filmed with a firearm pointed at them, it was actually pointed away from them but that wasn't apparent in the movie.
But maybe this lot found a new way to screw it up fatally with a single point of failure.
Film is independent apparently. So presumably not the biggest budget. Maybe they were just saving money on the stupidest place to try to save money. Safety of the actors and crew, and they prop weapon protocols got a bit lax.
Could probably add time constraints as well with equipment hire etc, like you mentioned with Lee.
Yeah. It'll probably all come out in the wash, but usually the director and the armourer or stunt coordinator would bear the bulk of responsibility unless the person holding the weapon made the primary screw up (e.g. Hexum).
The other thing ISTR from that article was that he'd brief everyone, including extras, with a demonstration of the power of a blank at close range, e.g. with a plank or box or watermelon. Good way to stop people treating it like a toy.
Damned if I can find the original article, though. Lots of the details check out in the google search, but I haven't found the article I'm thinking of – it had a really god flow in the writing and making its case, too.
"Damned if I can find the original article, though. Lots of the details check out in the google search, but I haven't found the article I'm thinking of"
Hey mate.
Is this it?
https://theconversation.com/explainer-the-rules-for-shooting-on-film-sets-71797
Mentions the angle thing
"In the same way that a punch striking an actor can be filmed without any contact the firing of a gun at an actor can be accomplished by cheating the angle of the camera.:"
I don't think so, but I might be conflating a couple of different articles.
stupid cosplay cowboy Americans. half of their films revolve around shootouts and punching each other in the face.
Have to feel for the dude though.
Actors have no control over prop guns etc.
Just heard an interview with an American correspondent. Apparently he wasn't in a great space at the cop station. Would screw you up a bit for life I would imagine.
Yes Chris T That was my reaction. How terrible to kill a friend with a faulty? prop.
Bit harsh. Movies with guns and violence are international.
Case rupture?
https://preview.redd.it/b8t7burut3j71.jpg?auto=webp&s=97b50d231db98671be113d1db3df6a4a82ddff52
please fix user name on next comment.
Has to be I guess.
She defo' isn't a real gun and that def' aint a a live round.
Problem with even real pistols like that is aim is crap, So even if Baldwin wasn't pointing it at her, If it was shattered faulty metal it could have gone out at any angle aand hit the people.
Unlikely I reckon, especially without Baldwin being reported hospitalised with a hand injury (or face injury, if rifle breech go boom when he's looking down the sights).
The film is set in 1880, so revolvers and lever actions are the ones hollywood like for that period. Mostly cartridges, but cap&ball were still around at that time.
So maybe a chainfire of the cap&ball revolving cylinder, but then you have to ask why the unused cylinders had dense obstructions and full charges. Or a Brandon Lee repeat. Or some small rocks went up the barrel while acting and became real projectiles with a blank charge behind them, and folks off the line of aim were hit by the dispersion pattern.
Lots of possibilities for fuckup or unforeseen hazard. We'll find out soon enough.