Good message – good messaging

50 comments on “Good message – good messaging ”

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1. Sabine 1

   13 July 2017 at 1:34 pm

   oh my gosh, someone pass the smelling salts to garteth morgan. He might end up paying taxes. poor thing.
   • Booker 1.1

     13 July 2017 at 4:44 pm

     Having been to a TOP roadshow I struggle to understand what you’re on about. Gareth actually wants to increase taxes on high income earners like himself and seemed pretty upset the government was going to give him and his wife pensions!
     • Sabine 1.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 4:47 pm

       when GM points out the loopholes that he would ban and how much that would cost him in taxes then we can talk. at the moment he is just simple tinkering with the taxes that he and his family btw are not paying.

       but yeah, i am sure he is very upset about getting money form the government.
       • RedLogix 1.1.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 6:14 pm

         What utter crap. Morgan has been totally transparent and open about how unfair the current tax system is. The very party he has started has at Policy #1 tax reforms that would indeed see him paying substantially more tax in asset based taxes.

         More even that the ‘tinkering’ that with income tax Labour is proposing here.
         • Sabine 1.1.1.1.1

           13 July 2017 at 7:23 pm

           i don’t discuss the fairness of the tax system.

           i discuss the fact that a geezer who made most of his money of the unfair tax system, who for years has done nothing to help change it is now gonna go all Trump on us telling us how unfair it is and he will change it all by means testing some benefits.

           Do i have an issue with rich people getting superannuation? No, you know why, if they paid taxes that is a ‘pre paid service’ It ain’t charity, its not government largesse it is a service that was paid for.
           Same with unemployment benefit, social welfare in general.

           He however can not even put the money that he gets for not paying taxes to help spay and neuter cats.But then suckers are born every day, just have a look at the US.

           so yeah, i don’t give a flying fuck about this tosser, he is about as usefull as tits on a bull.
           • RedLogix 1.1.1.1.1.1

             13 July 2017 at 8:02 pm

             Rant.
           • RedLogix 1.1.1.1.1.2

             13 July 2017 at 8:40 pm

             Like here is a guy who has for years talked about the unfairness of not taxing asset wealth and was ignored.

             Then he puts a fair chunk of his own dosh into a party whose #1 policy would see him paying a LOT more tax.

             And you slag him for ‘not doing anything’. Fuck you’re hard to please.
     • Cinny 1.1.2

       13 July 2017 at 7:35 pm

       Knowing Sean Plunket is running the TOP show put me off immediately. JS

       It’s great that Gareth wants to start his own party, good on him.

       But this election there is no way I’m wasting my party vote on any minority parties, sorry, but changing the government is way to important for me to risk it, for this election in particular.
       • RedLogix 1.1.2.1

         13 July 2017 at 8:44 pm

         Sean Plunkett is employed as a communications manager. Not quite the same thing as ‘running the show’.

         But here’s the thing, Morgan has always said he can work with National or Labour, so while I fully grasp that Plunkett doesn’t generate any warm fuzzies here on the left, he’s quite ok to to a whole range of National and NZ1 voters.

         Which makes a lot of sense strategically.
2. tc 2

   13 July 2017 at 1:39 pm

   Nice to see. How about one on shonkys power gennie flog offs, rising power prices V keeping them owned.

   Impacts everyone and people need to be reminded of more state assets virtually given away to line offshore pockets forever more thanks to national.
3. red-blooded 3

   13 July 2017 at 1:46 pm

   Concise and well-targeted. A great policy. Let’s hope it gets some cut-through.
   • Grafton Gully 3.1

     13 July 2017 at 7:02 pm

     Labour supporters in the “richest 10%” will be relieved of money they don’t need by the NZIR instead of investing it or giving it away – so much easier ! Go Labour !
4. Bill 4

   13 July 2017 at 1:54 pm

   If that gets underscored and informed by a campaign jam-packed with solid ‘values laden’ rhetoric, then it’ll work. If not, maybe not.
5. james 5

   13 July 2017 at 2:05 pm

   Question – I thought the press said that the cancelled tax cuts would ‘hit’ approx 2 million people in NZ – thats waaaaay larger than the top 10%.

   “1.2 million workers who earn $26,000 to $52,000 a year will miss out on an annual cut of $560, while another one million workers who earn over $52,000 a year will miss out on an annual cut of $1000.”

   http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/07/2-2-million-kiwis-miss-tax-cuts-under-labour-s-package.html

   Isnt the message that they are cancelling it for the top 10% a bit misleading?
   • weka 5.1

     13 July 2017 at 2:11 pm

     They get it back in other ways. It even says that in the link you provided 🙄
     • james 5.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 2:13 pm

       I understand that some will – but it wont just be the top 10% that end up without the tax cut will it?

       Which is my point.
       • weka 5.1.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 2:19 pm

         Don’t see how it’s relevant tbh. Labour voters will be looking at various things, and unlikely to take such a reductionist approach.
       • Keepcalmcarryon 5.1.1.2

         13 July 2017 at 3:12 pm

         No, I believe muddying the waters was your point James.
         • James 5.1.1.2.1

           13 July 2017 at 3:32 pm

           No. Let me put it another way.

           Are labour ONLY cancelling the tax breaks for the richest 10% ?
           • Keepcalmcarryon 5.1.1.2.1.1

             13 July 2017 at 3:52 pm

             Splitting hairs, many others who get their notional tax cut cancelled do better out of other top ups.
             Labour is being concise, naturally the Nat spin machine wants to make it confusing.
             • Norfolk Traveller …

               13 July 2017 at 6:33 pm

               Actually James makes a good point…the message is confusing. They would have been better leaving out the “$400m” part.
               Also, the message from the sign is that Labour are only going to cancel the tax cuts for the richest 10%, but that’s not what Robertson said on Radio NZ.
               Finally, the idea that “many others who get their notional tax cut cancelled do better out of other top ups” doesn’t necessarily stack up. As Radio NZ pointed out, a person on the average wage will pay around $1,100 more tax, yet a family earning $150,000 that has a child will receive a $3,000 annual payment.
               • Gabby …

                 13 July 2017 at 6:59 pm

                 More tax than now, or more tax than post nat cuts?
                 • Norfolk Traveller …

                   14 July 2017 at 7:10 pm

                   More tax than under National’s plan. And that’s what people will be comparing.
       • Gabby 5.1.1.3

         13 July 2017 at 5:43 pm

         But will they end up with more money jame? Did you do the mathsss?
         • McFlock 5.1.1.3.1

           13 July 2017 at 5:48 pm

           james loves to mathturbate. But only in private.
       • mikes 5.1.1.4

         13 July 2017 at 7:00 pm

         Anyone earning from 24k up to 48k will lose the independent earner tax credit under National which is up to $520 per year so to say “1.2 million workers who earn $26,000 to $52,000 a year will miss out on an annual cut of $560” is sort of misleading also.
   • indiana 5.2

     13 July 2017 at 3:32 pm

     It’s misleading because Labour and their think tank don’t know how a progressive tax system works.

     https://danieljmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/03/18/the-tax-system-explained-in-beer/
     • UncookedSelachimorpha 5.2.1

       13 July 2017 at 10:46 pm

       Indiana has posted this link a number of times on TS. It points to dishonest, false, vile libertarian anti-social garbage, but by all means click if you feel you must.
   • Sigh 5.3

     13 July 2017 at 7:10 pm

     Those figures don’t include what people get from Labour’s package. Patrick Gower is being misleading. 70% of families are better off under Labour’s families policy.
     • Norfolk Traveller 5.3.1

       14 July 2017 at 7:27 pm

       Do you have any information to support that claim Sigh? I’ve been talking to some friends who have young families and they claim they will be worse off under Labour’s plan.
6. s y d 6

   13 July 2017 at 2:13 pm

   The message might be OK, but the messaging? hopeless.

   Why is National even mentioned
   Why is the National font bigger than Labour
   why is Blue the dominant colour.
   even the jacket and tie can’t decide…labour or national or a bit of both…

   Does no one step back and say – what does this say as a graphic?

   The dark trees in the background hide the people and make the white text on blue POP.

   The words are too long (infrastructure……sigh) and too many. It isn’t spot on. It’s piss poor design. FFS who is getting paid for this? Can they even photoshop?

   Hasn’t all this already been done and much better?
   The Many v the few etc etc
   • Robert Guyton 6.1

     13 July 2017 at 2:18 pm

     I like Little’s paternalistic-in-a-good way, arm/branch, sheltering Jacinda from the troubles of the world.
     The “popping” white-on-blue message is in-your-face, National! We’re gonna take you and yours down.
     Pretty good effort, I reckon.
     Using Jacinda’s ruthless though, aye!
     Means Bill will have to drag Paula out for a showing.
     • James 6.1.1

       13 July 2017 at 3:53 pm

       “Means Bill will have to drag Paula out for a showing”

       Nope. I reckon it’s the opposite. The fact he dosnt shows he’s the leader.

       They are rolling out Jacinda despite knowing she won’t be deputy pm or leader.

       I can see why the did it – but I’m not convinced it’s helping.
       • Sabine 6.1.1.1

         13 July 2017 at 4:49 pm

         i can see all of the country rejoice at the idea of Mrs. Bennett “dependent on tax payers largesse since ages ago’ and run to vote for her and the housing welfare fraud.
       • Robert Guyton 6.1.1.2

         13 July 2017 at 7:24 pm

         “Nope” says the inveterate noper.
         “The fact he dosnt (sic) shows” he wouldn’t be seen dead beside Paula, especially on a bill board (Bill bored) where he can’t run for cover. The pairing of Andrew and Jacinda, otoh, looks good!
   • marty mars 6.2

     13 July 2017 at 2:35 pm

     Great analysis s y d So true about even mentioning the gnats. and your other observations are spot on.
   • mauī 6.3

     13 July 2017 at 4:41 pm

     Memories of the Iwi vs Kiwi National 2005 ads?

     Is John Ansell behind these ads?

     Well said Syd, I think the ad is ok but it would struggle to get a South Auckland “Labour, Labour, Labour!” chant going.
   • alwyn 6.4

     13 July 2017 at 5:37 pm

     “Can they even photoshop?”
     Actually they are pretty good at it. They have got rid of the wrinkles on his forehead.
     Have a look at what most of his photos look like.
     https://www.stuff.co.nz/timaru-herald/news/94667397/labour-leader-andrew-little-suggests-regional-skills-shortage-lists-during-timaru-visit

     A more serious question is posed by the NBR.
     Have they really gone to an Australian Company for their campaign? What enormous trust that shows in New Zealand Industry.
   • Warren Doney 6.5

     13 July 2017 at 5:58 pm

     Interesting that about the tie & coat – it matches Andy’s fence sitting persona really well.

     Roping Jacinda in for the picture is sad too. It looks like he hopes her popularity will rub off.
     • DoublePlusGood 6.5.1

       14 July 2017 at 10:26 am

       Isn’t that the whole point though? Show your leadership team?
       If you have a popular deputy, put them on the poster. Simple, really.
   • Ross 6.6

     13 July 2017 at 7:04 pm

     Impoverished kids sleeping in a car or motel will be devastated at Labour’s use of fonts and colours. Oh the inhumanity!
   • mikes 6.7

     13 July 2017 at 7:07 pm

     “Why is National even mentioned”

     Simple stuff..

     It is hoping to reinforce in people’s subconscious that National are for the richest 10%.

     The “cancel National” with cancel underlined is almost a subliminal message appealing to people to “cancel National”

     “richest 10%” underlined is hoping to associate the color blue and the National party with the richest 10%

     etc.etc.etc…
   • Anne 6.8

     13 July 2017 at 7:32 pm

     I’m assuming this is one of Labour’s bill boards. While I agree with Syd @ 6 when he talks of the ‘words being too long… and too many’, it will depend on where they plan to put the them. If they are placed at controlled intersections (traffic lights) then motorists will have the time to study them and assimilate the message which is a very good one.

     Not sure about the words in the bottom right corner. It would be better to include the message “Party Vote Labour” because up to 50% of the voters are NOT politically intelligent or informed and might not get the message in the form presented.
7. reason 7

   13 July 2017 at 4:30 pm

   Labour need to spell out how they will reform us away from being a tax haven …. and clean out the networks of secrecy and dirty money that John Key swam in and drenched us with…… “.”an industry which has been painstakingly built up over the last 25 years or so” … http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/79424553/Prime-Minister-John-Keys-lawyer-asked-about-foreign-trusts

   Most corporations are ripping us off …. through tax loopholes and ‘tax vehicles’, like the one that shifty John shewan sold to the Aussie banks, when they tried to drive off with $2 BILLION or more dollars in a kind of reverse bank robbery …… The forced payout, ordered by our high courts …… was equivalent to 100 YEARS worth of welfare fraud……

   …..Making Keys plan to sack tax inspectors questionable and rather suspect.

   Apple, IBM, all of the cellphone and internet network providers, all of the oil companies, Fontera, Manpower, the weapons makers National has promised billions to, etc etc etc. They are all scamming us

   http://norightturn.blogspot.co.nz/2017/07/reckitt-benckiser-tax-cheats.html

   Clean up the dirty accountancy, bent Law firms and banking professions,… have a proper graduated tax scale ….

   And Billions extra in revenue would be collected ……… every year .,… year on year.

   For Health, Education & Conservation
8. Redlion Seratus 8

   13 July 2017 at 9:32 pm

   Effective bill board
   the blue strip represent higher income earners We’ll (Us two for the many) will delete/cancel the tax cuts.A stark contrast to the John Key lone profile which is still there & will likely be carried over with English.The parting message in red : what you will get;health,houses etc.
   • Jenny Kirk 8.1

     13 July 2017 at 9:41 pm

     Yep – this billboard looks good. Agree with you Redlion Seratus.
     • Sanctuary 8.1.1

       14 July 2017 at 6:01 am

       Yay, something we can agree about!
9. UncookedSelachimorpha 9

   13 July 2017 at 10:47 pm

   A good statement from Labour. Hope they keep going in that direction!!
10. Louis 10

    14 July 2017 at 12:55 pm

    I think some people on here are too nit picky. This is great messaging from Labour, no doubts about it, it shows a clear choice.
11. newsense 11

    14 July 2017 at 2:03 pm

    Someone needs to really put some questions to Simon Wilson.

    “Enemy number three is the hard left, the very vocal sector who, strange but true, regard the fight against “neoliberalism” as more important than the campaign to get Labour and the Greens into government. Some are party members, but most are probably not. They have been emboldened by Jeremy Corbyn’s “success” and believe that surge of popularity for radical left politics can be replicated here. The Nats don’t have a ginger group like this: Matthew Hooton, for example, is probably the fiercest right-wing critic of the government’s centrist tendencies, but in election year, especially on twitter and in his NBR column, his focus is on discrediting the actual opposition, Labour and the Greens.”

    What a load of crap.

    Considering the attack on Labour constantly driven by Phil Quin, Josie Pagani et al before the last election I doubt you can find anything like that rubbish from the left. Labour and Greens are a serious proposition when they know who they are. The government of 1999 included the Alliance and gave us Kiwibank. The arrogance increased without a strong critique from a principled left.

    And what radical left policies Simon? Free tertiary fees? happening. Announced.
    What else was radical under Corbyn?

    Stop wanking off to the idea that David Shearer, the man who at the height of a National government decided it was a good idea to have a speech laying into a probably illusory beneficiary, and start looking at the opposition.

    Part of what you’re missing there is a clear vision of the country under Labour. That was what Corbyn’s manifesto presented. One where houses are available and not clad in fire. One where our children can look at a future with hope, not immediate debt. The cost of houses? still got $60,000 to pay off, many of us.

    TOP is a compassionate conservative party. Interesting ideas, but universal income isn’t only a left wing idea at all.

    The problem isn’t the support- it is exciting it, mobilising it and getting the volunteers to the street.

    Which you would hope is happening in marginals in West Auckland. It seems odd that someone as successful in parliament as Sue Moroney has been retired.

    But get Jacinda, Michael Wood, David Clark, Chippy, Julie Anne Genter and Chloe Swarbrick and all the other young guys front and centre. Move away from the racist rhetoric. Run a team strategy- MP for MP- attack Bridges and his shouty and sulky behaviour. Get some of the new blood up against Paula Bennett. Show Louisa Wall and Willow-Jean Prime and Carmel Sepuloni. Get Greg O’Connor and Clare Curran and Poto Williams out there. Get Willie Jackson to run in harness. Get Helen White on billboards.

    My worry is 3,4 and 5 for Labour.

    Grant I liked initially, but in his leadership roles he hasn’t impressed me enough for his reputation. He came across great when I first saw him on Backbenchers as a snappy messager with principles. In the leadership campaigns I’ve been less impressed. Up your game please sir!

    Twyford needs to be better. The Chinese sounding names has hurt Labour, no doubt Aucklanders understand their housing market. They are also a very multicultural community and expect their Labour to be like Phil Goff, Helen Clark and Michael Wood- leaders of that community. Sorry not as familiar with further out South- but I’m sure their MPs are respected there too.

    Megan Woods- I heard her for the first time on the radio the other day. 2nd time I’d ever heard her speak. For her position her profile is too low.

    Ian Lees-Galloway seems a little low, but I think he’d make a solid minister.

    I do miss Rod Donald, Jannette Fitzsimmons, Keith Locke and the Greens of that 1999 change. Having to be a short back and sides ex-banker to front a Green party is hopefully a gambit that will work, but we shall see how well. Time for Turei to get some cut- through as a national politician too, not one preaching to her choir, but reaching those outside the solid core too.

    Simon Wilson getting it wrong again: “Again, the Nats have it easy: their membership exists to get them elected. But Labour and Greens memberships exist to change the world”

    This is the same message that Pagani spins about Corbyn. Rather be pure than elected.

    STFU!

    The Nats have changed the world. All we want is to redistribute income a bit better and protect the environment a bit better.

    No point getting elected if the plan is tax cuts for the wealthy, privatising the health service, more charter schools, selling off conservation estate for mines or farms and giving away water and carbon credits to our chief polluters.

    No one expects Little to be Corbyn. Clark wasn’t Blair. Nor is English May. English isn’t telling the electorate that he is prepared to cut back human rights. May was. English isn’t untested. May was. Though English hasn’t passed every test.

    The situation is different. The message is not: youth are feeling shut out. Housing and other policies have distributed the wealth and power so that they feel ignored.

    Also, grannies and grandpas don’t want to hurt their kids, but don’t want to live their last in destitution either. That was the UK Labour formula. Get the old and the young.

    The Spinoff is at times a very liberal institution. It misses the point of the left wing. To give more money and fairer conditions to workers and the poor. That’s fairly much it.

    Simon irritatingly ties himself in knots. What is this terrible ‘radical left’ strawman he is afraid of?
    “It should not be hard for a decent political party to generate support in most parts of the country, and most parts of the political spectrum, to fix this stuff.”
    Yes- but National isn’t. Here a decent political party is from the left. The centre of New Zealand politics is much closer to Jeremy Corbyn than Simon Wilson and his restaurant crawling crew (though I bought all your Metros! Do like your work, sir! especially on Auckland public space, public transport and the promotion of writing) are prepared to admit.

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