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How To Get There 2/6/19

Written By: - Date published: 7:00 am, June 2nd, 2019 - 36 comments
Categories: Deep stuff - Tags:


This post is a place for positive discussion of the future.

An Open Mike for ideas, solutions and the discussion of the possible.

The Big Picture, rather than a snapshot of the day’s goings on. Topics rather than topical.

We’d like to think it’s success will be measured in the quality of comments rather than the quantity.

So have at it!

Let us know what you think …

36 comments on “How To Get There 2/6/19 ”

  1. Ant 1

    With widespread bullying in schools, the workplace and (even!) parliament one wonders how far just 15% of us practicing the kindness urged by our PM at inauguration would go towards healing the mental health of our nation. Certainly a lot cheaper.

  2. A 2

    After reading The Addicted Brain by Dr Hyla Cass I'd like to see supplements being used as part of addiction treatment.

    Why? Because the treatments we use have a terrible rate of success, and Dr Cass has said it is fairly cookie cutter so most people can just look up what is needed in terms of supplements + diet unless they have a complex case where they need a Dr. Freakin' fascinating that if done correctly you can break the mechansim for craving IN THE BRAIN itself.

    Once the craving goes away the quitting takes care of itself.

    It would save lives + a small fortune and free up health resources.

  3. nzsage 3

    Marginally related to the above discussion but this (somewhat long video) is well worth watching.

    WARNING: It contains some strong language.

    Not sure why the link to the video is not working but it’s the first video on this search string: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Depression+and+the+Secret+to+Happiness

    • Sacha 3.1

      Marginally related and long, you say? Might need to give more detail of what it's about given there is no preview image.

      • Brigid 3.1.1

        Your answer is in the url, to wit, 'Depression and the secret to happiness'

        • greywarshark

          Why can't we expect more info. Isn't this a NZ answer to everything? Give the barest minimum, and when asked for a reasonable amount of more, regard it as unreasonable. Have others noticed either that they never ask for better, or that they often get a negative if it involves adding even a small step to their practices.

          • Incognito

            Why can't we expect more info.

            Good question.

            Not many people think and act from the PoV of another person. Often they think that they have provided sufficient information. Or they might think that is so easy to simply click on the link and find out. The other side of the coin is that often people seem to think that they have sufficient information even when it is no more than 280 characters.

            I think you might like this article, the title is misleading, as usual: https://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/social-networking/113193145/twitter-is-detrimental-to-your-intelligence-and-heres-proof

            • greywarshark

              I want to know why I should click on the link and find out. Do people think that everyone has all day to spend finding out things? It is hard to keep up to date and find valuable insights without others playing peek-a-boo look what I've got for you. Sometimes I am in a hurry myself and don't put full stuff. Sometimes I put stuff and forget to put the link. But I find it very patronising and smartarse for someone to just put up the link, just put up the name.

              So if it's about depression, do I want to read an anecdote today about my five years in therapy when I already feel depressed, or is it someone who has found a way out and wants to pass it on.

              • Incognito

                I hear you. I skip almost all videos and am very selective about the links I click on (and read). Don’t be too harsh on other commenters though, it is nothing personal, only lacking in a little forethought. Just think of what some people put into e-mails and unthinkingly hit the Send-button or Reply-to-all with all consequences thereafter 😉

                • greywarshark

                  I remember a big hooha after John Blincoe Nelson Labour MP put in e/m request for confirmation about some allowance and it was sent to everyone. It was made to look as if he was greedy instead just seeking info. Blown up big.

      • Ankerrawshark) 3.1.2
        • With all due respect, I am someone who has worked in mental health for over 30 years, trained and qualified and worked with 1000’s yes it would probably be 1000’s of people with mental health problems, including some with very intense suicidal feelings and impulses.

        i am getting really really sick of every person and their dog coming up with all these ideas about what causes mental illness and possible treatments. The latest is one I have seen on fb touting surfing as a cure for ptsd. I have bee around long enough to see every theory, fad and guru come and go, often wasting people’s money and even worse doing them harm.

        i don’t think many people realize how complex it is working/treating people with these disorders. I wouldn’t try to suggest how pilots fly a plane or what allows a plane to be airborne, so I don’t know why we have so many arm chair theorists on this.

        also people mis represent stats including the suicide rate. Tragically it has gone up for youth, particularly Maori youth, but then tapers off. Not for pakeha though Overall it is down slightly.

        i am so glad this govt hasn’t set a suicide target, because actually other than removing theans eg changing household toxic gas to benign, we don’t have good answers to what will bring it down. And please don’t misinterpret what I am saying here, I desperately want the suicide rate to come down

        • greywarshark

          Has anyone had much to do with Transactional Analysis? It always seemed a very good tool for being able to understand your and others emotions.



          I think I'm in the Adaptive Child at the moment.

          • ankerawshark

            Hi Grey,

            If you want to find out what works in terms of treatment for all mental health conditions google cochrane library review. You can search there and find very high quality reviews of all research done into a range of treatments. It will tell you what we have evidence for and what we don't. I will look for TA.

            I tried posting the link without success.

            • greywarshark

              I can get the link but it is asking for donations or advert reception. If you are using a phone it may not have the same result as computer? Thanks for reply.

  4. Jenny - How to Get there? 4

    The day science usurped jingoism.

    All due to one man, a Quaker and conscientious objector, who if the Jjingos had had their way, would have likely been sent to and even possibly been killed in the fiercest fighting of \World War One, instead of going to war, he sailed for Africa to make one of the greatest scientific discoveries of all time.


    ….on November 6, 1919, the front page of the Times of London was full of stories about war and remembrance. It was only a few days before the first anniversary of the armistice, and King George V had just issued an invitation for all workers to take two minutes of silence out of their day to remember and honor the glorious dead. But to the right of these stories appeared an article about rebirth and renaissance. In a triple-decker headline, the normally staid Times wrote: Revolution in Science / New Theory of the Universe / Newtonian Ideas Overthrown.

    • greywarshark 4.1

      As Sacha remarks a few salient facts would provide the first stepping stone into the featured item. Jenny How – what is the name of this man, this Quaker? And so many wonderful doers sprang from this religious group eh!

      • Jenny - How to Get there? 4.1.1

        Sorry for this omission Grey, Arthur Eddington is his name. I just thought that people might be intrigued enough to follow the link and discover this antiwar hero's story.

        Reading about Arthur Eddington's narrow escape from the draft, made me ponder the tragic waste of millions of other human lives and the unknown human potential cut short in that terrible imperial conflict. No one will ever know what we lost.

        Which led me to think of current affairs.

        $billions for warfare much less for welfare.

        I see that in the budget that schools will get $1.2 billion over 10 years, mainly for infrastructure and up keep.

        Over the same period the NZ military will get an extra $10 billion.

        One of the main reasons given for this huge expenditure on the military is the alleged need for 'interoperability' (is that even a word?), primarily with the US, so that our forces can seamlessly enter into military exercises and even combat alongside the US and their allies in their next war of choice.Which at this time looks to be with Iran.

        (The other reason given for this huge military largess compared to the paltry amount for education is marine patrolling and Antarctic operations. but it is the expressed desire for 'interoperability' with the US war machine that is the main reason for the massive price tag. In my opinion civilian vessels and aircraft would be able to do just a good a job on a much cheaper budget)

        What human potential will be wasted, if our education system fails our children?

        And yes good on the Quakers for their still enduring antiwar ethos and activities.

        National Peace Council

        …..A major task in its early years was organizing the National Peace Congress, which also arranged conferences on specific issues. Arthur Stanley Eddington served as Chair from 1941 to 1943.


      • mac1 4.1.2

        Greywarshark, your comments above about Quakers and depression trigger me to share this link http://laquaker.blogspot.com/2012/11/ocean-of-darkness-and-of-light-how-to.html and then to share with you that I am a Quaker and also have suffered from depression. I was told early on in my thirty years as a Quaker that many Friends were depressive. George Fox, the founder, was one. The link discusses this and how some Friends have found depression to be a way to learn and develop compassion and spiritual awakenings too.

        Yes there are many Friends whom I respect hugely for their being 'doers', and reading of them, and knowing some, is daunting in their example. But I have a great sense of gratitude for having found this gentle way to walk upon this earth.

        I wish you a similar path………… even strewn with rose petals?

        • greywarshark

          Thanks mzc1. I love some roses, the ones without thorns, briar? moss? Anyway nice thought. And they or somebody, says that people who are depressed are in touch with reality. Perhaps it is brave to let oneself become depressed then, and practice resignation and find joy and fulfilment after. I wonder if that means anything or whether my fingers are just typing stuff that my head has picked up from broadcasts about spiritual things?

  5. greywarshark 5

    Radionz this a.m. I have come to believe that we are hard-wired to form addictions to behaviours that satisfy something in our subconscious. And if we want to change greatly we have to reprogram ourselves. I think Prof Diamond thinks that and he has written a book – 'Upheaval' with 12 steps we can take. Worth a read!?

    Professor Jared Diamond: 'The world is in more trouble than it has ever been'


    10.04 Professor Jared Diamond: 'The world is in more trouble than it has ever been'

    Jared Diamond

    Jared Diamond Photo: supplied

    Best-selling environmental historian, Jared Diamond says the world is on a "non-sustainable course at the moment" and if we don't start doing something about it, we could be paying the ultimate cost in as little as 30 years from now.

    In his new book, Upheaval, the 81-year-old professor of Geography at the University of California takes a broadly humanistic view of how populations face threats to their well-being, looking at areas such as climate, resources and the threat of nuclear war and nuclear weapons, and outlines a 12-step programme for nations in crisis that is something akin to Alcoholics Anonymous' 12 steps to sobriety.

    He speaks to Jim about the book, his own decorated — and sometimes controversial — academic career, and how nations can change for the better through the coping mechanisms we normally associate with personal trauma.

  6. WeTheBleeple 6

    This will be worth watching when it arrives. Pio Terei presenting 'Off The Grid'.


    I was designing tiny houses as a child, old railway carriages to convert to cabins. It was an obsession of mine, reiterating small spaces I could tuck into small spaces and hide. I'm sure anyone growing up with violence can relate.

    A safe space to call our own. Don't we all want that?

    Today tiny housing is a lot more that that. It's about understanding our footprint, our nature. Humans finally reintegrating with the land.

    Oh, and a housing crisis.

    When I get land I'll be growing bamboo and building with that. Well that and cobb. Once I've built a house or two for practically free we can have a media circus as the powers that be come in and try to tear it all down.

    But I don't need a million dollars to build a house. Just a few shoots, a few hand tools, and time.

    • Robert Guyton 6.1

      I had a similar childhood obsession with designing a seperate space, WTB, and lucked-in when my parents bought the large "play hut" from the kindergarten I'd attended 4 years earlier. I set about planning to move in, when I was old enough and imagined and drew plans for where a bed, table etc, might sit, along with themed decores, according to my fascinations of the moment: woodland, beach, etc. When I eventually convinced my parents, I moved in and found my space in which I created a sanctuary; I had frogs in terrariums, goldfish in bowls, miniature worlds of moss, fungi and lichens in jars; everything I loved as a boy. Interestingly (to me) I painted a bearded, cone-hatted figure on the wall (a copy one of the members of The Band, as seen on the cover of Life magazine; why, I can't fathom) and have ended up, 50 years later, looking just like that; we must be careful what we set in train. smiley

  7. Robert Guyton 7

    That sucks. Leon Redbone has died, May 30, aged 69.


  8. greywarshark 8


    How much can painting a roof white reduce its temperature?

    Depending on the setting, cool roofs can help keep indoor temperatures lower by 2C to 5C as compared to traditional roofs," says Anjali Jaiswal, of the US-based Natural Resources Defence Council, which oversaw the Ahmedabad project….

    As for Mr Ban's [Ban Ki-Moon former UN Secretary General] claim of a 30 degree fall in the temperature of the rooftop itself, the Gujarat pilot does not provide answers, but we can turn to the findings of a study by the California-based Berkeley Lab for some guidance.

    It found that a clean white roof that reflects 80% of sunlight will stay about 31C cooler on a summer afternoon.

  9. WeTheBleeple 9

    Just been researching if dehumidifiers are worth the expense. If your home is damp probably you should use them they'll raise temperature if nothing else, but can also make it easier to heat. As for mold spores/mites and whether dehumidifiers control them… not really.

    So you need to actively hit the mold/dust mites themselves to bring down respiratory issues. Mild bleach on a cleaning cloth puts paid to mold, but also, don't forget to wash the curtains the mold loves to hide behind them where air is trapped and still between curtain and glass. The mites cannot withstand freezing. your linen, pillows… a wash is good at reducing numbers, freezing them will kill them all.

    The combination of dehumidifier and proactive mold/mite control will make a significant difference for respiratory health in your home (if it is damp).

    The real cure for the problem is better house design for the conditions.

    And then there's some clever kiwis leading the way on domestic air cleaning…

    An antimicrobial UV light/dehumidifier combo.


    Neat idea aye!

  10. greywarshark 10


    “We decided to make the housing unconditional,” says Kaakinen. “To say, look, you don’t need to solve your problems before you get a home. Instead, a home should be the secure foundation that makes it easier to solve your problems….”

    Housing First’s early goal was to create 2,500 new homes. It has created 3,500. Since its launch in 2008, the number of long-term homeless people in Finland has fallen by more than 35%. Rough sleeping has been all but eradicated in Helsinki, where only one 50-bed night shelter remains, and where winter temperatures can plunge to -20C…

    But Housing First is not just about housing. “Services have been crucial,” says Helsinki’s mayor, Jan Vapaavuori, who was housing minister when the original scheme was launched. “Many long-term homeless people have addictions, mental health issues, medical conditions that need ongoing care. The support has to be there."

    At Rukkila, seven staff support 21 tenants. Assistant manager Saara Haapa says the work ranges from practical help navigating bureaucracy and getting education, training and work placements to activities including games, visits and learning – or re-learning – basic life skills such as cleaning and cooking….

    Housing First costs money, of course: Finland has spent €250m creating new homes and hiring 300 extra support workers. But a recent study showed the savings in emergency healthcare, social services and the justice system totalled as much as €15,000 a year for every homeless person in properly supported housing….

    And there, the Finnish capital is fortunate. Helsinki owns 60,000 social housing units; one in seven residents live in city-owned housing. It also owns 70% of the land within the city limits, runs its own construction company, and has a current target of building 7,000 more new homes – of all categories – a year.

    In each new district, the city maintains a strict housing mix to limit social segregation: 25% social housing, 30% subsidised purchase, and 45% private sector. Helsinki also insists on no visible external differences between private and public housing stock, and sets no maximum income ceiling on its social housing tenants.

    Also Salt Lake City Subsidised Housing
    The Housing Authority of the County of Salt Lake is pleased to offer four different quality affordable housing programs to low-income and no-income individuals and families: Section 8, Low Income Public Housing, Affordable Housing, and Supportive Housing Programs.

  11. greywarshark 11

    For we commenters thanks joe90.

    This useful info. I am putting this up without trying it. If it doesn't work I'll come back and put my finding.

    joe90 7.1.1 5 June 2019 at 8:50 pm Daily Review

    Sorry about the massive link

    You can shorten [link] addresses by deleting everything past the question mark.

  12. greywarshark 12

    Bill has produced another thoughtful piece on climate change and its likely results. He is sort of a Deep Throat emerging from the cloak of day to day activities out in the world to give us the story of what is happening that we overlook.

    Here is a link which will go through to his Friday 7 June 2019 post with lots of info called A Confession. This in turn gives links to three earlier posts 2018, 2016 and 2014 featured at the end of the current post.

    A Confession.

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