“I am a socialist”

43 comments on ““I am a socialist” ”

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1. Robert Guyton 1

   21 May 2021 at 10:12 am

   Bolshy!

   I loved it.

   Some of us environmentalists say, "Tree hugger? Hell yes!!!"
2. Gosman 2

   21 May 2021 at 10:25 am

   Does he really believe in the collective ownership of the means of production? I somehow doubt that he does. Considering he represents an electorate that is largely rural some of his constituents might be concerned that he wants to change the ownership of their farms.
   • tc 2.1

     21 May 2021 at 10:27 am

     Is it on the record he wants farms bought under public ownership ?
   • Robert Guyton 2.2

     21 May 2021 at 10:34 am

     Collective responsibility, rather, Gosman. Farmers are embracing it (catchment groups etc.)
     • Gosman 2.2.1

       21 May 2021 at 11:31 am

       Not many farmers are pushing for land or livestock or crops to be owned collectively though. Sure they are cool with (voluntary) collective approaches to dome inputs and marketing efforts buy that's about it.
       • Brigid 2.2.1.1

         21 May 2021 at 12:14 pm

         I see you are continuing to discuss this amoungst yourselves Gosman.

         Keeps you off the streets I guess
       • Tricledrown 2.2.1.2

         21 May 2021 at 2:15 pm

         Gosman Fonterra a virtual monopoly they are as bad as communism there are cases for single owner govt ownership such as electricity ,water supply,public transport.

         But the free market needs genuine competition otherwise monopolies get to big and powerful and stifle .real competition and innovation.Any new successful competitor tends to be bought out by the big monopolistic corporations.

         Ie Microsoft,Google, the big four banks (looking at the australian banking commission report and bigger international banks they get away with any bad banking practice you can think of money laundering insider trading ponzi scheming)facebook,foodstuffs,progressive,fletchers ,oil companies,power companies etc.

         NZ is dominated by Cartels duopolies and monopolies .

         Govt intervention is regularly needed to stop price gouging which makes us all poorer.

         Gosman there needs to be a balance between the state and free enterprise for both to flourish and give us citizens the best lifestyle.

         Gosman it's called pragmatism and virtually every economy on the planet does this the ones that veer to far to the right or left fail.
       • woodart 2.2.1.3

         21 May 2021 at 3:15 pm

         farmers are also pretty cool on asking us hard working kiwis to bail them out re sth canterbury finance , flood relief, drought relief etc. its also cost us $800,000,000 to buy up cows to stop the latest virus. think they are pretty happy with collectivisim when its in there favour. privatise the loses, socialise the loses , same old story.
   • Chris 2.3

     21 May 2021 at 11:00 am

     I thought we'd dispensed with that stereotype of rural folk years ago.
   • Gabby 2.4

     21 May 2021 at 5:51 pm

     Does Rimmer really believe it's a socialist budget?
3. KSaysHi 3

   21 May 2021 at 11:03 am

   Brilliant
4. Pat 4

   21 May 2021 at 11:31 am

   "I am a Socialist…with an extensive holding of private bank shares in my portfolio"
   • greywarshark 4.1

     21 May 2021 at 11:45 am

     Where does that information lie Pat?
     • Pat 4.1.1

       21 May 2021 at 12:04 pm

       At the RBNZ
       • greywarshark 4.1.1.1

         21 May 2021 at 12:30 pm

         So I think you are saying that he has declared it as required when becoming a politician. Right? Then the question – does one have to be poor to be a socialist. Will middle class do or is the wage band too wide? What occupation is okay, physical or mental? Or do all people who aim to climb socially and financially step out of the socialist group? And how much is too much capital accretion beyond say a house and ordinary car?

         It seems to me there is a human drive to get more, and rise above a perceived lowly level in society. I asked a union rep in Australia if his son was going to be an electrician like him. He said no, he was off to uni and going to go into management which I think he regarded as a step up.

         Also do we know when we have enough money and possessions for a feeling of security? Can we stop ourselves from working to gain more and then retiring and putting our feet up?
         • Pat 4.1.1.1.1

           21 May 2021 at 12:32 pm

           What it says is that either they dont know what Socialism is or they are misrepresenting themselves as something they are not….or possibly both at the same time.
5. Adrian Thornton 5

   21 May 2021 at 12:35 pm

   What exactly has this guy done that makes this statement a fact?…what Socialist political positions has he fought or advocated for in parliament?….has he publicly stood in solidarity with Socialist countries currently under US attack like Venezuela?, did he make any noise when Lula da Silva, was wrongly imprisoned, or celebrate when he was released?, did he publicly stand in solidarity with the Socialist Jeremy Corbyn? did he run as a Socialist in Wairarapa?…I don't know, and am just asking if anyone knows what his actual Socialist history is..or is he just saying shit?

   Today RNZ talked to Helen Kelly’s, (The peoples warrior) biographer, someone who spent their life fighting for these principles…and they should not be used lightly IMO.
6. Bazza64 6

   21 May 2021 at 12:48 pm

   Socialism – where workers own the means of production. NZ is nowhere even near that, and if we were each business would be owned by a committee of workers.

   It works until you run out of other peoples money & the businesses take on a direction similar to a Valium addict. Sluggish & disinterested.

   Be careful what you wish for Kieran.
   • greywarshark 6.1

     21 May 2021 at 1:05 pm

     Can workers share the means of production with capitalists in modern socialism? I am not impressed with what I experienced from unions as a worker and don't feel they would be any better in the long run. After you have finished spluttering anyone out there who can give me a good line on where socialism is working well? Or how they consider it should work if able to be operational? And then how to stop socialists from becoming closet capitalists and when in power selling us ordinary folks down the river?
   • RosieLee 6.2

     21 May 2021 at 3:28 pm

     Production, distribution and exchange?
   • Gabby 6.3

     21 May 2021 at 5:54 pm

     Capitalism doesn'twork too well when it runs out of other ppls money either. Must be one of those universal things.
7. Bazza64 7

   21 May 2021 at 1:11 pm

   GWS, the reality of life & human nature is that once a socialist becomes a “part owner” of a business he tends more towards capitalism so as to protect and increase the value of the “investment” By whatever means this was obtained.

   The once noble “worker” then slowly morphs into the enemy.
   • greywarshark 7.1

     21 May 2021 at 4:04 pm

     It seems this view of socialism carries the seeds of its own destruction. Employers are the enemy but workers can't respect them, and are unsatisfied all the time. Great culture for running an economy and a country where all can be happily occupied for a decent standard of living.

     Theories Phf
   • McFlock 7.2

     21 May 2021 at 4:16 pm

     Rather bleak assessment of human nature you have there.
   • In Vino 7.3

     21 May 2021 at 11:01 pm

     Bazza64 – I lived in West Germany for two years, and England for almost as long, back between 1977and 1981.

     Germany had a healthy, thriving economy back then, as I think it still does. Workers were incentivised with participation shares, and had a far more positive attitude to their work. They were incentivised to buy an appartment + furniture using a mortgage they way we used to buy a house. I did not see those workers as morphing into a capitalist enemy: they were working harder and more efficiently for results they could enjoy. And they were becoming a much healthier society on the way.

     England was stricken with the 'English disease'. Class conflict. Employers determined to protect their profits gave workers as little as possible . Working class really likeable good people in the working man's bar at the pub, but sour about their work. Why give anything to the stingy, rich boss who gives bugger-all to them? Negative attitude from workers in most factories.

     I could see which was the better model as many others could, but dear old NZ as usual chose to follow the disastrous English model.

     Is your negative attitude seeped in that English class struggle?

     I think Germany is still far better off that either UK or NZ.

     And don't ask me if I would like to leave here and go there, because if I were younger the answer would be yes.
8. Siobhan 8

   21 May 2021 at 1:18 pm

   This is the sort of thing you hear in the playground quite regularly between 12 year old boys…one hurls a ridiculous insult ..the other one decides to 'own it', usually without having a clue what it actually means……for the adults in the staff room to start debating whether or not its true is amusing but sorta pointless..
   • Pat 8.1

     21 May 2021 at 1:21 pm

     Pointless to the extent that housing remains unaffordable despite an increase in base rate benefits and increases in the minimum wage.
     • Tricledrown 8.1.1

       21 May 2021 at 2:24 pm

       Housing NZ tenants do allright but those in private rentals are paying a big share of their income.

       But so do low to medium wage workers who got nothing in the budget .That is where National will exploit unless better wage bargaining powers and the rise in minimum wages can make up the difference.
     • Siobhan 8.1.2

       21 May 2021 at 2:29 pm

       A pointless argument to the extent that there is not one single socialist in the halls of parliament. And that while Seymour thinks calling someone a Socialist is an insult…Kieren is so disconnected to peoples desperation he thinks calling himself a Socialist is a real hoot…a pissing contest between career politicians…though in this regard I suspect Seymour may actually believe in atleast 60% of what he says…so thats something.
     • RosieLee 8.1.3

       21 May 2021 at 3:29 pm

       Yes, and absolutely nothing done about rent control eg CGT.
9. Stuart Munro 9

   21 May 2021 at 1:38 pm

   Though there will be breaches, the reigning paradigm creeps incrementally away from the dysfunctions of neoliberalism.

   It is better that political classes pretend to virtues, than vices.
10. I Feel Love 10

    21 May 2021 at 1:43 pm

    Well no, he was being heckled by the Seymour's & Bishops & Gosmans as a "socialist" & he just said "sure I'm a socialist, so fucking what", it's only the righties who see it as an insult. Also, I think Kieren was just having a bit of fun, certainly wound up the right people.
    • weka 10.1

      21 May 2021 at 5:14 pm

      I thought it was funny and on point given the budget as a turning point.
11. I Feel Love 11

    21 May 2021 at 1:48 pm

    Lolz, from the Taxpayers Union ""MEDIA RELEASE: The Prime Minister must repudiate self-confessed socialists in her caucus – " sorry, didn't get past that headline ..
12. McFlock 12

    21 May 2021 at 4:23 pm

    lol nice to see mainstream politicians feel comfortable coming out of that particular closet.

    One elected rep I was talking to had a wee chuckle about a presentation their board/thing received on "doughnut economics". Sounded like socialism to that person, but they weren't going to tell any of the other reps that because the other reps were already in favour of it because "green" 🙂

    Also funny watching a tory commenter arguing the same point as a true-left commenter: McNulty isn't really socialist because he's not socialist enough.

    I guess political extremism makes for strange bedfellows.
    • weka 12.1

      21 May 2021 at 5:13 pm

      Kind of disappointing that the true left is intent on reinforcing perceptions of po faced and humourless.

      Funny that both the right and left here have such narrow, self serving definitions of socialism (although Gosman knows full well the troll value of saying socialist when he means communist). Not so funny that we still can’t just celebrate the wins, even the small ones.
      • McFlock 12.1.1

        21 May 2021 at 6:15 pm

        Well, the perennially glum do get me down sometimes, but I'm still cheerful at the thought that Hosking has threatened to leave the country because it's become a far-left ultrawoke dictatorial hell-hole.

        He's too much of a coward to follow through and piss off, but the thought is nice.

        I bloody loved McAnulty's (watched too much of The Wire, called him "McNulty" earlier lol) line about David Bennett that "he may as well be a socialist because his face is as red as a socialist, I can say that right now".

        lol – and then just remembering to commend the bill to the House 🙂
        • weka 12.1.1.1

          21 May 2021 at 6:46 pm

          I loved it. Also that he has energy and passion and strength of conviction. If he's like that all the time I can see why people in his area voted for him.
      • Pierre 12.1.2

        21 May 2021 at 9:27 pm

        Although I fall squarely in the camp of people crying out for serious Marxist critique of capitalism, there's something to be said for simple strength of socialist conviction. I'm thankful for these few good Labour MPs who turn up to the union rallies and picket lines when workers go on strike, those who maintain an instinctive sense of loyalty to the movement.

        
        • weka 12.1.2.1

          22 May 2021 at 10:27 am

          Quite agree. Do you know much about McAnulty?
13. weka 13

    21 May 2021 at 7:12 pm

    Ooh, there's more than one!

    https://twitter.com/publicaddress/status/1395605105974513667
    • I Feel Love 13.1

      21 May 2021 at 7:44 pm

      Good to see the Covid top up they got used well, bloody eggs. Barbara Streisand springs to mind.
      • McFlock 13.1.1

        21 May 2021 at 8:05 pm

        I know, right?

        The core purposes of government are law enforcement, defense, and providing grants of public money to right wing lobbying groups (with an option for interest-free repayment if the blatant hypocrisy is exposed) that totally aren't in the least bit socialist.

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