Implausible denials

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1. disturbed 1

   25 July 2014 at 9:16 pm

   This Right wing lot have no principals left and will say and do anything to get elected.

   Grant Robertson is absolutely right: He said:
   “Former Immigration Minister Jonathan Coleman must come clean about when he was told the FBI was investigating Kim Dotcom.”

   Radical departure from ingrained right wing policies, consider these slogans.

   National’s slogan for this election is, National “working for you.”

   Some of these can be to counter their slogan.

   1/ Labour’s chant should be, “Labour will be inclusive & working together with you”
   2/ Government for the people, by the people.
   3/ We will return a kinder, gentler, caring, sharing, Government.

   Take on Helen Clarks magic that rolled the last Corrupt bunch of right wingers.
2. Weepus beard 2

   25 July 2014 at 9:25 pm

   http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/25/kim-dotcom-interview-the-internet-party-will-abolish-mass-surveillance-snowden

   KDC article in the Guardian today. Got to admire his enthusiasm for the bringing the field he knows to NZ for the benefit of NZ. A guy with vision who is not just out for the rich pricks.

   The stuff in this article should reach the NZ public. Can you imagine any of our lapdog media writing anything so refreshing on the subject?

   Bomber tweet makes the Guardian tech page. Not too shabby.
   • Clemgeopin 2.1

     25 July 2014 at 9:58 pm

     From the article:

     Tech tycoon Kim Dotcom has told the Guardian that “governments want to engage in mass surveillance and have total citizen control”, before a crowd fundraising event for the Mana Internet party, the political party he founded to contest New Zealand’s September 20 elections.

     Dotcom also reiterated his promise that five days before the election, the world will “witness a moment of truth” at an event alongside Glenn Greenwald, the former Guardian journalist who broke the NSA revelations with Edward Snowden. “We’re about to make history”, he said.

     The party has focused on mobilising the youth vote, with 42% of people aged 18–24 not voting in New Zealand; a low turnout which is echoed in global trends.

     Explaining his plans from a helicopter over South Island, Dotcom said he believes that governments globally will be “knocked out by the internet population”, and his hope that his party will “abolish mass surveillance and rejuvenate politics by giving the internet generation a voice.”

     “Everyone should care about their basic human right to privacy. More and more people do. Governments want to engage in mass surveillance and have total citizen control. We have just woken up.”

     When asked whether the Internet party could work in the UK or elsewhere, Dotcom said: “100%. Someone is starting an Internet Party there. And even Jimmy Wales approves of us. So stay tuned.”

     Of young people’s current political apathy, both in New Zealand and the world, Dotcom believes political parties need to change their approach to capture Generation Y voters, hence the Party Party event. “Music is a powerful tool to get the youth interested in politics.”

     “We are currently polling 2.8 in ‘landline’ polls. Our voters don’t even know what a landline is. They are all mobile and online. The youth in New Zealand is embracing us. We make politics cool and direct. We have the apps and sites for youth to engage.

     “I’m just shaking my head about the incompetence of the New Zealand government in all tech and internet matters. They don’t have a vision for the future. They are not thinking bold thoughts like how can we double our GDP by focusing on growing our tech and internet sector. That’s where real growth is going to happen in the decades to come.

     “The internet is the biggest gift to mankind and we need to protect it from overreaching governments and greedy corporations.”

     Dotcom, who lives on a 60 acre estate in Auckland, is still facing extradition to the US on copyright infringement, money laundering and racketeering charges relating to Megaupload, and is also being sued by six Hollywood studios, and in June offered a £3m bounty for help in fighting the case.

     He also told the Guardian he is still seeking private prosecution against GCSB, New Zealand’s equivalent to the NSA and GCHQ, after his house was raided. “It’s highly likely. My legal team is working on it.”

     Mega is a cloud service and hosting successor to Megaupload. Last month he announced that he would be taking his new digital music service Baboom public on the Australian Securities Exchange by the end of 2014.
     • You_Fool 2.1.1

       28 July 2014 at 7:55 am

       One thing I notice about that is the big reveal of KDC is to do with the FBI/CIA/5 eyes and the way he was targeted by a conspiracy, probably including direction/input from big Hollywood. The reveal is how much info the government has on individuals and how they use it. Any John Key link will be incidental/be because of who he must of talked to and how it would have been 100% part of their job to tell Key.
3. AmaKiwi 3

   25 July 2014 at 9:29 pm

   I have just seen “The Internet’s Own Boy: The Story of Aaron Schwartz” which is part of the NZ International Film Festival. (Last showing will be Monday, 28 July at 6:30 pm at the Civic theater.)

   Aaron Schwartz was a boy genius and champion of open information via internet. His accomplishments were staggering but after 3 years of FBI intimidation he committed suicide, age 27. Excellent film.

   It makes clear how powerful corporations (Hollywood) use outdated US laws to shut down internet innovators and control the gates through which information passes. The fact that Glenn Greenwald will speak at Dotcom’s Sept. 15, Town Hall meeting public tells me:

   1. The internet innovators (the people of the future) view Dotcom’s case as critically important.
   2. Greenwald will deliver bomshells direct from the Snowden files.
   3. The USA (global vested interests) are ruthless in trying to destroy Dotcom and other IT innovators. As with Aaron Schwartz, powerful corporations are determined to “make an example” of Dotcom to try to frighten the innovators.
4. Puddleglum 4

   25 July 2014 at 9:31 pm

   I find it incredible that the Prime Minister and Minister of the SIS and GCSB was not informed that a foreign, domestic law enforcement agency was working with the New Zealand police – and with the GCSB lending a helping hand – on a plan to capture a New Zealand resident when that plan had been incubating for a year (or more).

   I’m especially incredulous given that this whole case was obviously a “serious” issue since, of course, Key ended up apologising to Kim Dotcom over how it was handled – and the PM only apologises over serious issues.
   • AmaKiwi 4.1

     25 July 2014 at 9:54 pm

     and Cunliffe apologizes constantly, which is why people like Key (a strong Alpha male leader).

     We humans are not much different from a pack of wild dogs hunting and defending our territory. If our Alpha male leader regularly stops in mid-chase to say “Sorry,” we get another leader.

     As our PM, I hate Key. But I’ll bet if he ran over a crippled nun in a wheelchair he’d have a dozen reasons why he didn’t need to say, “I am so, so sorry.”
     • karol 4.1.1

       25 July 2014 at 9:58 pm

       Some of us are not very keen at all on that, never say sorry, “Alpha male leader”. It seems more like a socially dysfunctional personality type to me. And certainly not the best type to lead a democracy.
       • Saarbo 4.1.1.1

         25 July 2014 at 10:14 pm

         Agree Karol, Alpha male is a socially dysfunctional personality type…lost in the modern world…but I don’t think Key is one, he can morph into whatever the media let him morph into. This sums up Key brilliantly I reckon http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11298638
         • mikesh 4.1.1.1.1

           26 July 2014 at 10:18 am

           “he can morph into whatever the media let him morph into.”

           A bit like that Woody Allen character, Zelig.
     • Clemgeopin 4.1.2

       25 July 2014 at 10:06 pm

       I consider Cunliffe not just a man, but a real man who sees the bigger picture and more importantly, a caring human with conscience and courage. Give me Cunliffe any day over Key and Labour and the caring progressive parties any day over National and the selfish capitalist right wing parties.
       • anker 4.1.2.1

         26 July 2014 at 3:48 pm

         Clem @ 4.1.2. +100
     • Puddleglum 4.1.3

       25 July 2014 at 10:26 pm

       I think the ‘Alpha Male’ notion is more a social and cultural product than a natural one.

       Human males do seem to be, like male chimps generally, boasters. What determines who ‘wins’ status amongst males therefore probably depends on what a particular culture encourages them to ‘boast’ about.

       Perhaps a society ‘gets the Alpha Males it deserves’?

       Anyway, I only brought up the apology angle to highlight that this surveillance operation was clearly a ‘serious’ matter for Key and, therefore, it is particularly stunning that he wasn’t kept in the loop on it.

       I hope he has castigated the GCSB, at least, over not keeping him informed about such ‘serious’ issues and has gained an assurance that it will not happen again.
       • karol 4.1.3.1

         26 July 2014 at 1:52 pm

         I think “boasters” and “Alpha males” are all pretty much privileged (or not) by social processes.

         I can think of plenty of males who aren’t “boasters”. And some of them lead very successful lives, making important contributions to society.
     • stigie 4.1.4

       26 July 2014 at 1:47 pm

       “As our PM, I hate Key. But I’ll bet if he ran over a crippled nun in a wheelchair he’d have a dozen reasons why he didn’t need to say, “I am so, so sorry”

       Key would not get himself in that position in the first place !~
5. Clemgeopin 5

   25 July 2014 at 9:31 pm

   I am continuously amazed about how so many usually fair minded good people in the country have not seen through the dubious ways and poor policies of Key and the present National government. Strange!
6. AmaKiwi 6

   25 July 2014 at 9:43 pm

   Yes, Weepus Beard, that’s an article everyone should read.

   http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jul/25/kim-dotcom-interview-the-internet-party-will-abolish-mass-surveillance-snowden

   It dovetails with the Aaron Schwartz movie I recommended above.

   To David Cunliffe:

   On Tuesday morning, Sept. 21, have your sword sharpened and ready to draw blood after Glenn Greenwald reveals National’s filth.
   • karol 6.1

     25 July 2014 at 9:55 pm

     I think having Greenwald there will ensure maximum media coverage – very good PR a few days out from the election.

     However, I doubt Greenwald is going to drop some revelation about National. Whatever is revealed will be from KDC, and I’m not expecting anything very explosive.
     • mikesh 6.1.1

       26 July 2014 at 10:25 am

       I suspect KDC will be addressing a world audience rather than a NZ one.
     • Tracey 6.1.2

       26 July 2014 at 12:23 pm

       Except to the guardian his language was stronger about the information…

       “witness a moment of truth…”
   • AmaKiwi 6.2

     25 July 2014 at 10:00 pm

     Correction: TUESDAY, Sept. 16
     • Saarbo 6.2.1

       25 July 2014 at 10:08 pm

       He should still have his “sword sharpened”
7. Tom Jackson 7

   25 July 2014 at 9:52 pm

   An openly criminal government. What more could we want?

   What happens when this comes out and National is re-elected anyway? How could anyone have confidence in such a system, if it will re-elect criminals?
   • Wayne 7.1

     25 July 2014 at 11:24 pm

     Yes, it is obvious to everyone that New Zealand has one of the most corrupt and criminal governments in the democratic world. So much so that they have corrupted all the international surveys that report New Zealand as one of the least corrupt nations.

     It is after all obvious to everyone that, just to take three countries at random, that the governments of Egypt, Russia and Venezuela are vastly less corrupt and less criminal than New Zealand.
     • Murray Olsen 7.1.1

       26 July 2014 at 4:04 am

       How did you ensure the randomness of your choice of countries, Wayne? I can think of several ways of doing it, but I’m curious which method you chose. I have a slightly better than lay understanding of probability, randomness, and stochastics, so be as technical as you like.

       Or did you just make that bit up?
       • North 7.1.1.1

         26 July 2014 at 8:56 am

         No Murray Olsen – Wayne is stoking up the straw men of Egypt, Russia, and Venzuela. Being dishonest. Probably a bit piqued that the moment requires him to be so but prepared to press on with it. In high-hooting much spittle style.
     • Tom Jackson 7.1.2

       26 July 2014 at 8:34 am

       Stop with the stupid whataboutery. I claimed it was a criminal government, not the most criminal government in the world. It being less criminal than some others does not make it acceptable.

       Learn some logic, you oaf.
     • framu 7.1.3

       26 July 2014 at 11:46 am

       “Yes, it is obvious to everyone that New Zealand has one of the most corrupt and criminal governments in the democratic world.”

       thats not what tom said, so gosman-esque wayne

       an exercise in misrepresenting in order to exaggerate and dismiss

       pretty sad behaviour for a grown adult
       • KJT 7.1.3.1

         27 July 2014 at 10:33 am

         Key is not a criminal because he steals less than Mugabe did……………FIFY

         How Key made his money cost every New Zealander thousands. Morally no different from breaking into every house in the country, and stealing their savings. It was legal however.

         Just like asset thefts and nibbling at New Zealand’s foundations to make more money.

         So he and his fellow gangsters can be rewarded with a lucrative retirement, after politics.

         No wonder why crimes of dishonesty are increasing. They are just following the example set by our leaders.
     • Tracey 7.1.4

       26 July 2014 at 12:27 pm

       What level of corruption or deceit do you think we should accept from our elected representatives?

       What do you consider the “highest ethical standard” ministers are held to by the cabinet manual means in practice?

       Do you think that until our poorest are as poor as, say, Indias or ethiopias, we do nothing?

       And finally do you think mr coleman lied or mr bickle should be sacked for failing to properly brief his minister?
     • One Anonymous Bloke 7.1.5

       26 July 2014 at 5:09 pm

       You’re missing the point Dr. Mapp. He did it too doesn’t cut it.

       By New Zealand standards, this government is corrupt.
     • KJT 7.1.6

       27 July 2014 at 10:27 am

       Interesting that you picked Venezuela, not Columbia.
       One of the most corrupt countries on earth. But a US corporatocracy supporter.

       Chavez was unpopular in some quarters ‘because’ he rooted out corrupt, drug dealers, politicians and businessmen that were rorting the country…

       Note that he was, unlike our politicians, elected with an 80% majority.
     • Anne 7.1.7

       27 July 2014 at 11:07 am

       Corrupt (adjective) – having or showing a willingness to act dishonestly in return for money or personal gain.

       synonyms: dishonest, unscrupulous, unprincipled, amoral, untrustworthy, underhand, deceitful, double-dealing:

       John Key is dishonest. He is a pathological liar as evidenced in Blips list..
       John Key is unscrupulous. He destroys people who get in his way or are of no use to him. eg. the poor.
       John Key is unprincipled. He changed the law to suit another country other than the country he leads.
       John Key is amoral. He has no moral compass.
       John Key is untrustworthy. He cannot be trusted to act with transparency.
       John Key is underhand. He uses the security agencies – and others – for political and personal gain.
       John Key is deceitful. He hides behind a facade of false premises designed to fool the voters.
       John Key is a double-dealer as evidenced by his wheeler/dealer background.

       In short: John Key is corrupt..
8. tricledrown 8

   25 July 2014 at 10:39 pm

   Jonathan Coleman was lying through his teeth his obfuscation was so obvious in his body language .
   • Tracey 8.1

     26 July 2014 at 3:33 pm

     If he is not lying he needs to immediately sack Mr Bickle for keeping such an important thing from him. He cannot have it both ways.
9. ropata 9

   25 July 2014 at 10:55 pm

   Fascinating interview with KDC on ZBTV: Meet Kim Dotcom
   • AmaKiwi 9.1

     26 July 2014 at 8:40 am

     A link please. I want to hear it.
     • ropata 9.1.1

       26 July 2014 at 9:22 am

       😛
10. Once was Tim 10

    26 July 2014 at 1:00 am

    When a gubbamint’s default position is to lie to its electorate and wheel out the spin doctors and social media trolls – you KNOW democracy is in trouble.

    Interestingly (despite being an irregular interloper on this site) the trolls get up very early these days. Its all becoming a bit routine …. morning prayers and taking instructions with Jamie Lee, Teeve3 Firstline with Jacinda one day a week, The Standard as soon as Open Mike is up and running, firing flak and running diversions on every site of any significance, Backbenhes Wdnesday ….. must play bloody havoc to a relationship
11. Jrobin 11

    26 July 2014 at 8:28 am

    Interesting comments on John Key and the alpha male role. In the phone canvassing I have been involved with over the last 6 weeks, I am noticing, in an anecdotal, unscientific way no doubt, a shift of women voters against Key. Males still rate him, or do not rate left leaders at any rate, but I only had one woman in this weeks sessions who was willing to admit planning to vote National. I feel a headline shaping for John Armstrong, “Women Voters Abandon PM: Issues of Trust and Integrity”. Young women expressing visceral distaste for Key is now commonplace. Pity we don’t have many real journalists left, but maybe Lisa Owen will take this up?
    • karol 11.1

      26 July 2014 at 9:13 am

      Yep. I have been getting that impression as well. Key’s desire to be top dog and insensitivity to others problems is becoming more obvious as the smile and wave front starts to wear thin.

      And now we have another guy who is prone to putting women down, as moderator of the TVNZ leaders debate. Maybe the prevalence of so many of these guys in positions of power will lead to a rebellion from large numbers of people with lesser power, and more empathy for others.
      • KJT 11.1.1

        27 July 2014 at 10:38 am

        Key, and many others in parliament, remind me of the “cool” school bully.
        You know the ones. With the tribe of worshipping followers.

        The same insensitivity and arrogance overlaid with lack of concern or empathy.

        I have wondered all my life what people see in the type.
12. North 12

    26 July 2014 at 8:42 am

    WAYNE @ 7.1 –

    1. If the prime minister and responsible ministers DID NOT KNOW from first relevance about (a) the operations in New Zealand of an agency of a foreign government and (b) the identity of the subject of those operations – (a) and (b) being inseparable of course – WHY DID THEY NOT KNOW ?
    2. If they DID KNOW from first relevance about (a) the operations in New Zealand of an agency of a foreign government and (b) the identity of the subject of those operations – (a) and (b) being inseparable of course – WHY ARE THEY SAYING THEY DID NOT KNOW ?

    Necessarily your answers will address the issues of COMPETENT MINISTERIAL ENGAGEMENT and FIDUCIARY OBLIGATION as issues seminal to good governance in New Zealand.

    In the unlikely event that you disagree with the proposition(s) that (a) and (b) above are inseparable, and/or COMPETENT MINISTERIAL ENGAGEMENT and FIDUCIARY OBLIGATION are issues seminal to good governance in NewZealand, please present a case for the negative proposition(s).
    • ropata 12.1

      26 July 2014 at 9:38 am

      because
      a) responsible ministers had a hard-on, excited to be working for the FBI, spying on KDC, raiding his estate, and pretending he was a terrorist

      b) responsible ministers are lying fools with no respect for privacy, rule of law, or proper oversight of rogue agencies (SIS/GCSB) and they are trying to cover their arses

      c) responsible ministers are incompetent and forced the agencies to break the rules in order to obey the wishes of the US government, Hollywood bigwigs, and golfing buddy, Barack Obama
13. left for dead 13

    26 July 2014 at 10:25 am

    @ Wayne,come on,… spit it out.Do not make me say it.
14. philj 14

    26 July 2014 at 4:57 pm

    xox
    Cripes Wayne. How many rotten apples is acceptable in a barrel of apples?
15. Vaughan 15

    26 July 2014 at 5:52 pm

    Wonder what would happen if the GCSB were caught rigging political polls in this country? Would our glorious CEO ShonKey just brush it off as one of those things that happens in a fascist regime? Reassure the Sheeple voting is futile and that #TeamKey was always going to win the 2014 general election regardless, because he said so.

    Really we have so much to be thankful for, not just to our CEO ShonKey, Uncle Coleman, King Brownlee, Her Majesty Collins and the rest of the treasonous gang of Washington loyalists in the National Party. But also to our Big Brothers, ahhh yes the good old boys at the GCHQ, CIA, FBI, NSA, SIS, GCSB et al. I always wanted to go to East Germany, and look Sheeple here we are!

    Everyone start to goosestep in 3, 2, 1. . .
16. john 16

    26 July 2014 at 6:05 pm

    If you are going to have a conspiracy theory about the FBI presuring NZ to give Dotcom residency, you have to ignore two major points.

    1/ Dotcom himself put huge presure on Imigration NZ officials that he would take a BILLION dollars elsewhere if they didn’t grant him residency straight away, by Nov 1st 2010.

    He was granted residency on 1st Nov 2010.

    2/ You’ve stuffed up and are a whole year out with the arrest of Dotcom – it wasn’t a couple of months after granting residency – it was 14 months later.
    • karol 16.1

      26 July 2014 at 6:14 pm

      The poitns you make are not relevant.

      Check NZ First’s Timeline.

      13 Oct 2010 -KDC’s residency put on hold

      14 Oct SIS sends letter to Police advising FBI are interested in KDC

      28 0ct – day after PM meets with Hollywood execs for 2nd time, SIS lifts hold on KDC’s residency.

      31 Oct – KDc’s residency application approved.

      11 March 2011 – Police receive formal request for assistance by FBI
      • john 16.1.1

        27 July 2014 at 1:03 am

        So if your timeline is correct the request for formal assistance came more than four months AFTER after he had already gained residency.

        And the arrest came FOURTEEN months after.

        More facts that stuff up the conspiracy theory.
        • joe90 16.1.1.1

          27 July 2014 at 1:32 am

          Fact – a fortnight prior to him being granted residency the SIS advised police the FBI were interested in KDC.

          Fact – three days prior to him being granted residency and following Key meeting with the complainants the SIS lifted their objection to KDC becoming a permanent resident.

          Speculation – he was given residency at the request of the complainants and the FBI.
        • McFlock 16.1.1.2

          27 July 2014 at 1:35 am

          lol hardly.

          You seem to think that a ten month cooperative investigation leading to an arrest came out of nowhere. And that a delay of a few months is uncommon in a bureaucracy over the festive season.

          13 Oct 2010 -KDC’s residency put on hold

          14 Oct SIS sends letter to Police advising FBI are interested in KDC

          28 0ct – day after PM meets with Hollywood execs for 2nd time, SIS lifts hold on KDC’s residency.

          31 Oct – KDc’s residency application approved.

          The facts that call you, at best, highly credulous.
17. Jrobin 17

    27 July 2014 at 12:01 am

    John, the fact that KDC wanted in toNZ does not change the likely motivation of the FBI and our Immigration Department. They used his wealth as cover story later but may have had other secret agenda; ie to make him a legal precedent for copyright prosecution. He obviously did not know of the entrapment issue or he would not have sought citizenship. He possibly thought we were a neutral backwater, not connected to US interests. He was probably unaware of JKs potential links to Hollywood through the Harvard Business nobs club. Can KDC prove this though? With serial amnesia to pin down it has to be irrefutable proof of JK s conversations emails on copyright, fBI, KDC, etc with Immigration officials or spooks. Will make a great thriller in ten years time.
    • john 17.1

      27 July 2014 at 1:08 am

      “Entrapment” is if he had been encouraged to commit a crime.

      In this case he already been ripping people off left right and centre. He’d been making money for years by ripping people off, which is why he has a long list of convictions for things like insider trading, embezzlement, data fraud etc.

      Not even the young women that he was exploiting on his porn sites were getting paid.
      • joe90 17.1.1

        27 July 2014 at 1:54 am

        Not even the young women that he was exploiting on his porn sites were getting paid.

        You’ll be able to substantiate such a serious allegation won’t you?.
18. Jrobin 18

    27 July 2014 at 4:12 am

    Oh gee John, on behalf of the female gender I just want to say thanks for your sympathy regarding pornographers and payment, it’s always so touching to know young exploited women have strong men like you batting for them. Hmm ……dripping with hypocrisy and yes I hope you can substantiate your oily little claims as Joe90 has noted.

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