Irritated and up early

72 comments on “Irritated and up early ”

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1. Weepus beard 1

   14 August 2014 at 11:34 pm

   “To be complicit in that kind of sock-puppetry requires the kind of compliant deference to authority that comes naturally to people on the right.”

   Enjoyed that bit, thanks LP. Wish I had a copy of the book.
   • weka 1.1

     14 August 2014 at 11:50 pm

     I enjoyed that bit too 😀

     The book is on various amazons now.
2. Pete 2

   14 August 2014 at 11:54 pm

   Well done, Lynn. I think you know better than most the place of the major blogs as opinion shapers in the New Zealand political sphere. They are are the left hand side of the bell-curve when it comes to the diffusion of innovations model. Things get tweeted, Facebooked, picked up by the MSM and consensus around a narrative builds. If the first tiny snowflakes are befouled, then the whole snowball ends up dirty.
3. Tamati 3

   14 August 2014 at 11:55 pm

   It would be a lot easier if you all just used your names….

   [lprent: For whom? Cameron Slater has already had one attempt to attack my job because he knew my name. ]
   • weka 3.1

     14 August 2014 at 11:59 pm

     no, really, it wouldn’t. For a start, some people wouldn’t be able to post or comment at all.
     • Tamati 3.1.1

       15 August 2014 at 12:41 am

       Maybe some people would choose not to post, but putting names to every post would put an end to the rumour that left wing staffers post on the site.

       [lprent: The authors aren’t and the comments are checked for IPs. Read the policy and the about. Banned for 6 weeks for stupidity. ]
       • weka 3.1.1.1

         15 August 2014 at 12:48 am

         No, it wouldn’t. If John Smith puts up a post, how do you know who John Smith is? What you are really asking for is people’s real life identities. That’s not how the blogosphere works, for very good reasons.
         • Tamati 3.1.1.1.1

           15 August 2014 at 12:53 am

           [deleted]
           • McFlock 3.1.1.1.1.1

             15 August 2014 at 1:00 am

             It may discourage some people to post, but real journalism includes putting your name to your work.

             Because “staff reporter” is “putting your name to your work” /sarc
           • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.1.1.2

             15 August 2014 at 1:13 am

             Why are you talking about “real journalism”? Do you even know what “real journalism” is? Did anyone commenting on The Standard suggest or imply they were doing journalism?
           • mickysavage 3.1.1.1.1.3

             15 August 2014 at 5:55 am

             After what we have seen about the right’s modus operandii in Dirty Politics do you blame people for wanting to keep their identities secret?
       • McFlock 3.1.1.2

         15 August 2014 at 12:54 am

         because there are no rumours Ede and Lusk post on Slater’s site under his name?
         • Tamati 3.1.1.2.1

           15 August 2014 at 12:56 am

           [deleted]
           • McFlock 3.1.1.2.1.1

             15 August 2014 at 1:05 am

             Slater? But according to rumour, he didn’t write it. Just publishes it.
             Like the trustees of The Standard Trust. Who are as identifiable and contactable as slater.
           • Colonial Viper 3.1.1.2.1.2

             15 August 2014 at 1:17 am

             Hey Tamati, why are the editorials in the New Zealand Herald anonymous?
           • weka 3.1.1.2.1.3

             15 August 2014 at 1:49 am

             “He’s still putting his name to it. Taking some degree of responsibility.”

             Out of curiosity Tamati, why are you not using your real life name/ID? How do we know you are not part of Slater/Key’s attack team or work for Crosby Textor?
   • Hanswurst 3.2

     15 August 2014 at 12:45 am

     Another problem with that is that Slater puts his name to his blog, but at least some of what goes out under his name would appear not to have been written by him. Such use of real names as pseudonyms seriously undermines the perennial cries to blog under real names.
     • weka 3.2.1

       15 August 2014 at 12:50 am

       +1. It’s better to judge a blog on content and whether the authors act with integrity.
       • karol 3.2.1.1

         15 August 2014 at 8:08 am

         Exactly. There is no need to know the offline names of authors, when the posts can be critiqued solely on the content: the strength of the sources used, and the logic or the arguments.

         Nothing else is needed.

         But then again, these days, the MO of the right is to focus on the politics of personality, and to try not to engage with the substance of policies, values and arguments.
         • halfcrown 3.2.1.1.1

           15 August 2014 at 8:45 am

           As usual well said.
     • Tamati 3.2.2

       15 August 2014 at 12:54 am

       [deleted]
       • Hanswurst 3.2.2.1

         15 August 2014 at 1:03 am

         By calling for people to put a real name to their posts, but suggesting no way of verifying whether the person named is writing or simply facilitating, that’s effectively what you’re doing.
       • vto 3.2.2.2

         15 August 2014 at 9:13 am

         Tamati, there is a reason that voting is not public.

         An understanding of the reason/s behind this base foundation stone of our system is necessary before any commentary such as yours above has any value.
   • Draco T Bastard 3.3

     15 August 2014 at 11:13 am

     I do put my real name to my posts and comments. It’s not my given name nor my legal name but it is my real name, the one chosen by me.
4. AmaKiwi 4

   15 August 2014 at 1:07 am

   After 6 years we should all recognize Key’s diversionary tactics. Key dismisses and ignores the factual accusations. With a boyish smile, he assassinates the character of his accusers. “I’m just a nice, ordinary guy. Go after the bullies who are trying to beat me up.”

   Keep focused on the the claims in the book. If Key cannot disprove them with hard evidence, what should be the consequences for Key, Collins, and National?

   It is irrelevant who runs or feeds The Standard because The Standard is not accused of high crimes and misdemeanors.

   John Key is.
   • Draco T Bastard 4.1

     15 August 2014 at 11:15 am

     +1

     It is irrelevant who runs or feeds The Standard because The Standard is not accused of high crimes and misdemeanors.

     John Key is.

     QFT
5. Ad 5

   15 August 2014 at 5:46 am

   You’re a top man Lyn.
   Go hard this morning.
6. marty mars 6

   15 August 2014 at 6:26 am

   Kia kaha lprent – god, when pete george is the go to guy for answers you know the questions are fucked.

   Go The Standard writers and commenters!!!
7. karol 7

   15 August 2014 at 8:10 am

   Thanks, Lynn, for the very apt post and for talking to RNZ and calling out the smoke and mirrors being used against left bloggers.
8. RedBaronCV 8

   15 August 2014 at 8:11 am

   Well I’m just an ordinary person who uses public sources and nobody is paying moi
   • lprent 8.1

     15 August 2014 at 8:38 am

     I think that is the point isn’t it. Cameron Slater and David Farrar run it at a different level. As political operatives.
9. Te Reo Putake 9

   15 August 2014 at 8:29 am

   Nice work on the radio, Lynn. Precise and to the point. While the questions were a bit wooden and old hat (why are TS authors anonymous? etc.) you did a great job of answering in a way that will make sense to listeners.

   While I know Pete George will hate to hear me say it, I thought his effort yesterday wasn’t too bad, either. Dully MOR, of course, but that’s why they picked him to be interviewed. He also did a good job of explaining how NZ political blogs work when they don’t operate as a clearing house for National Party smear and innuendo.
   • Ad 9.1

     15 August 2014 at 9:42 am

     +1
10. lprent 10

    15 August 2014 at 8:31 am

    OK?

    Ah taxi. More coffee and off to work.
    • vto 10.1

      15 August 2014 at 9:10 am

      Good work mr prent… keep it up
    • karol 10.2

      15 August 2014 at 9:10 am

      Very well said. Good you got in the point about anonymous Herald editorial writers.

      It’s here.

      http://podcast.radionz.co.nz/mnr/mnr-20140815-0816-left_wing_bloggers_defend_their_own_work-048.mp3
      • TeWhareWhero 10.2.1

        15 August 2014 at 10:45 am

        Ditto
      • adam 10.2.2

        15 August 2014 at 11:03 am

        Thanks for putting that up Karol, and well done Iprent. I think you said exactly why I like this site – If you had the time, you could have said the lefties on this site butt heads a bit – but that’s not really news.
      • crocodill 10.2.3

        15 August 2014 at 11:19 am

        So his one point was, what if someone sends something to the shadowy figures at The Standard that’s damaging to the National Party… what will they do? Really?
11. Bearded Git 11

    15 August 2014 at 8:44 am

    I spend many wonderful hours wasting my life reading The Standard. Long may it continue!
    • Chooky 11.1

      15 August 2014 at 9:13 am

      ..me too…in fact it had become a bit of an addiction until recently when the computer connections broke down and I had to go cold turkey…the newspaper often remains unfurled encased in its plastic, until it is given the biff into the fire
    • Kiwiri 11.2

      15 August 2014 at 9:38 am

      I spend many hours of my wasteful life improving my mental health thanks to The Wonderful Standard. Long may it continue, way after I have shuffled or shuttled off my mortal coil.

      Brilliant interview there, Lyn 🙂
12. vto 12

    15 August 2014 at 8:44 am

    Guyon Espiner was a bit pushy asking for identities of people here….. perhaps his postings on here could be exposed….. methinks I know what his pseudonynm is ……. (and fwiw it is always a worthy read)
    • karol 12.1

      15 August 2014 at 9:00 am

      Speculating on pseudonyms? Not TS policy.
    • Blue 12.2

      15 August 2014 at 10:11 am

      Espiner came off as a moron. ‘The Standard is the left equivalent of Whale Oil is it?’ Like, WTF? Then asking ‘Who is Rocky?’ when this information is well known already. These media people are such muppets. No research, no idea, not even basically competent.
13. ianmac 13

    15 August 2014 at 9:20 am

    Good to hear Lynn on Morning Report. Leading the way in giving short sharp answers. Some MPs could learn from Lynn!
    • grumpystilskin 13.1

      15 August 2014 at 12:02 pm

      I think the final sentence in the interview summed it up and confused the hell out of espiner : “we’re not there to make news, we’re there to write opinion.”
14. greywarbler 14

    15 August 2014 at 9:27 am

    Great effort Lynn to get the site throbbing happily at this sharp point in time.
15. Lanthanide 15

    15 August 2014 at 9:29 am

    There was a comment left here from someone who said they were Blondie from Whale’s blog a long time ago, and that they know for a fact that other people wrote stuff that was published under Slater’s name, and that slater boasted about it.

    They also said that the emails leaked and everything in the book reflects with exactly what they know to have been going on with Whaleoil, and they hope heads roll.

    The comment seems to have been deleted, but I caught it before it was.
    • karol 15.1

      15 August 2014 at 9:37 am

      It was probably trashed for a reason – into defamation territory without any publicly available supporting evidence?
      • Lanthanide 15.1.1

        15 August 2014 at 10:24 am

        Didn’t look defamatory to me. I think the author just decided better of it. Unfortunately for them, they published it on a public website and I saw it…
16. Rodel 16

    15 August 2014 at 9:38 am

    LPrent
    Good interview on RNZ this morning. Notice how Espiner finished the interview limply with tail between his legs.
    Brooking no nonsense you sounded a bit like a cross between David Cunliffe and Winston Peters.
    Well done and thanks.
    • weka 16.1

      15 August 2014 at 9:48 am

      http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/morningreport/audio/20145784/left-wing-bloggers-defend-their-own-work
      • Rodel 16.1.1

        15 August 2014 at 11:15 am

        Yes. My favourite was at 2:15 during the interview;

        Guyon – ‘Why don’t people use their own names..etc”)
        LP -“why should we?”
        Guyon, – “We’ll..because…um…ah….”
17. infused 17

    15 August 2014 at 9:39 am

    “It only took a year for fibre to arrive in my apartment after they finished installing it in the road outside. That is because Steven Joyce is a sloppy and rather useless negotiator and didn’t think to establish how to provide fibre into apartment buildings when he did the contract with Chorus.”

    Please lprent. Do elaborate.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 17.1

      15 August 2014 at 10:06 am

      How have you missed that ongoing discussion?
      • infused 17.1.1

        15 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

        This is quite specific, in which I know the details behind. Probably why I haven’t got a response.
18. Lucy 18

    15 August 2014 at 9:45 am

    Would be interesting to know sales # for “Dirty Politics” as opposed to John Roughan’s puff book “John Key” maybe that’s why Key so miffed!
    • adam 18.1

      15 August 2014 at 11:06 am

      Pulling self off the floor, Lucy my side hurts I laugh so much – thanks.
19. Dumrse 19

    15 August 2014 at 9:54 am

    I’m not sure I understand how Steven Joyce would get involved in running fibre into MDU’s let alone his own frekin house. Stay focused, you know what your leader said.
    • One Anonymous Bloke 19.1

      15 August 2014 at 10:08 am

      One connection per building, many apartments in building. Contractual arrangements inadequate. Please try and keep up.
      • infused 19.1.1

        15 August 2014 at 12:27 pm

        Which isn’t what holds it up.
20. Anne 20

    15 August 2014 at 10:06 am

    I’ve had enough of this media obsession with pseudonyms on The Standard. So here is one of my real life experiences as a long standing supporter of the Labour Party and a former public servant. There is a chance I will identify myself to some people currently reading this blog-site but I no longer care – another story.

    In the mid to late 1980s, during the term of the 4th Labour government, I became the target of accusations that I was secretly supplying that government with information about the NZ Meteorological Service where I worked. It came from a section of the management and despite my denials (in fact I had dropped out of politics 2 or 3 years earlier to concentrate on my career) the rumours, innuendo and general undermining of my work continued. In the end, I sought and was given a transfer to the Met Office on the RNZAF base at Whenuapai. At first everything went well but with the arrival of a new office manager – a former American Marine officer – everything changed and I became the target of constant surveillance and other nefarious activities beyond the office and severe bullying behaviour inside the office. In short, I was being terrorised. It reached it’s peak at the time of the out-break of the first Iraq War in 1991, and I later discovered that was no coincidence – also another story. I was forced to resign from the Met Service after 24 years of loyal service.

    My crime was: I had been an active member of the Labour Party and knew some of the leading players of the day. The fact I no longer had any contact with any of them was either ignored or disbelieved.

    While my experience may have been an extreme case, this is the reason why so many people on the Left of the political spectrum feel they have to safe-guard their identity. The Right are dirty, vindictive players as Nicky Hagar has shown… they will go to inordinate lengths to destroy the lives and/or careers of anyone they perceive to be an enemy.

    I hope Guyon Espiner reads this. He just might become a little better informed!
    • pauagirl1 20.1

      15 August 2014 at 10:33 am

      wow that unbelievable (for that to happen) ..but i do believe you:)
      • Macro 20.1.1

        15 August 2014 at 3:34 pm

        I can well believe that Anne. I do hope that, like Jim, you have been able to blossom further in your career after moving on from the “strait-jacket” of public met. work.
        Jim is able to speak out now far more forcibly regarding AGW than he was previously.
    • greywarbler 20.2

      15 August 2014 at 10:50 am

      @ Anne 10.06
      You always have something interesting to say. This was sad. I remember thinking that Jim Salinger’s treatment was weird and couldn’t understand it. The management there was prompted by commercial directives to punish Jim who gave some product away. Do you think Anne that there was a profit concern, or divided loyalties, Met first and government a hostile other?

      Even in something like the weather! And why would an American Marine be promoted into a government service here. Have they got sleepers round the country ready to take control if necessary I wonder. Military meetings and joint practices, raids on native people’s lands for practice, odd and unsettling.
      • Anne 20.2.1

        15 August 2014 at 11:17 am

        @ greywarbler

        Jim Salinger spoke his mind without prior permission. That was a crime worthy almost of imprisonment in the competitive world of the weather and climate sciences.

        The American was married to a New Zealander. Bear in mind that the atmosphere between the Reagan administration and the 4th Labour government was on a knife edge over NZ’s anti-nuclear stance. It had nothing to do with me, but given the paranoia over that piece of legislation… the fact I had been an active member of the Labour Party was enough to turn me into an ‘enemy’ in the eyes of some very stupid people.

        Btw, I discovered years later that a former associate had been spreading lies and smears over a long period which would not have helped. Shades of Slater in female form.

        The point I’m making is those on the Left are the ones who always get targeted by the right-wing establishment mindset, and that’s why many feel they have to take precautions like pseudonyms rather than their real names.
        • Anne 20.2.1.1

          15 August 2014 at 12:15 pm

          Oops it wasn’t the Reagan Admin. It was Geoge Bush Senior’s lot.
          • Chooky 20.2.1.1.1

            15 August 2014 at 6:30 pm

            @ Anne…It sounds like a book there….how about you write it?….’Fear and Loathing in the Public Service’ ! ( title? …lol).

            There would be many on the Left who would have similar experiences…people with great ability and integrity ( Sutch) , who could have made New Zealand a great and egalitarian country!….but were thwarted by secret covert surveillance , innuendo…and covertly had their careers undermined, lives made miserable and potential shredded…(.similar to what happened under J. Edgar Hoover in the USA)

            …it is time the books were opened and the lid taken off …this is why the Labour/ Left coalition must get in and reveal which New Zealanders have been illegitimately spied on….what the GCSB is up to….which politicians have been using it for their own ends

            …otherwise we risk a totalitarian right wing police state ….and one which is puppet to overseas puppet masters and vested private non New Zealand economic and business interests….our sovereignty gone

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Edgar_Hoover

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi
            • Anne 20.2.1.1.1.1

              15 August 2014 at 7:45 pm

              @ Chooky
              It went much further than the Public Service. I went to the police several times over specific incidents and in 1993 I requested their assistance to get to the bottom of the entire matter. Surprise, surprise… they didn’t want to know about it. In the end I conducted my own “investigation” but it was to take me a further few years before I discovered the identity of the person who had been making the false allegations, and was almost certainly involved in the criminal aspects of the story. I was too scared to go back to the police with my findings because of their negative and unfriendly attitude during my earlier approaches.

              That was the most hurtful part of the entire saga. As a decent and law abiding NZer, I was entitled to have been taken seriously and a proper police investigation undertaken. I got nothing. They were presumably put off by the political connotations that were involved. While I accept there are many good men and women in the NZ Police, as a collective law enforcement agency I now have nothing but contempt for them. They totally failed me and I have no doubt they failed others who went through similar experiences.

              This is why I respond passionately to any stories that surface about politically motivated criminal activity… particularly against ordinary folk who have no protection against the perpetrators. And when the likes of those arrogant bullies like Mike Hosking, Bill Ralston, Duncan Garner, the awful Leighton Smith and of course Slater (to name just a few) sneer and jeer at the victims and targets as if they are the guilty parties, then it makes me feel very angry indeed.
              • Chooky …

                16 August 2014 at 1:59 pm

                @ Anne…sounds like you went through the mill alright ….but you are a fighter and you are strong and articulate ….Sutch was just one of many downed …and it needs to be seen in context of the paranoia of the times ( shades of cold war and J.Edgar Hoover..it needs to be put in an international right wing political and economic context)

                …I definitely think there is a book in this..(there must be many public servants like you who were sullied by covert secret agendas)

                ….maybe a book working in conjunction with the PSA, who would have tabs on what was/is going on…also the Labour Party and other Left Parties would know a thing or two about dirty tricks and covert action

                ….there needs to be an open fight back imo
            • greywarbler 20.2.1.1.1.2

              15 August 2014 at 8:09 pm

              Anne co-author with Nicky Hager – ghost writer? Would he be interested?

              The DomPost ought to be – still publishing stuff about Sutch. It wouldn’t be hard to get a bad name in paranoid NZ in Muldoon’s time. I think he was trying to find out the sort of stuff that Edward Snowden has released. He had a wide understanding of world trade and economies. But the nasty little bumblers would not want to know.

              The minds of farmers and their offspring getting into gummint wouldn’t be large enough to be aware of the range of issues we faced. But like now they would get brownie points for bagging a real Spy, who could be giving away information about planned moves to destabilise the world – sort of like now. It was nuclear time and cold war time and Tom Lehrer time – Youtube We will all Go Together When we Go.

              There is a madness that rises and blocks a clear view of the world and its people and there is no room for love and concern for others, or just putting up with the other difficult buggers, as long as they don’t do everyone out of their needs and rights. We must stop the megalomaniac and his/her varroa mites from rising and smarming their way into power.

              Personally I like the idea of massed male choirs competing for days with score cards kept by many nations, and then the winner would have first speech at the negotiations. And the UN would check there were no behind the scenes maneouvres while people were distracted. We are so cunning we’re always thinking of sneaky ways to get advantage. We’re so sharp I wouldn’t be surprised if a cut your own throat machine hasn’t been patented. The guillotine actually was Frances advance into humane judicial killing, quick effective, needed in the USA now. Where is Madame Lefarge when you need her?

              This has been a stream of consciousness message brought to you from I don’t know where or what I am channelling!

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