Just how wrong can you get it?
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- Date published:
9:03 pm, December 6th, 2012 - 164 comments
Categories: community democracy, labour -
Tags: blogosphere
Word is that a senior Labour MP (who will go unnamed) has been lobbying National Council to put rules in place for party members who participate in the blogosphere. It appears they don’t like the idea that members might voice their concerns about the way their party is run. I can only assume that there would have to be some kind of a process whereby members who broke these rules would face a loss of membership or some other form of censure.
A cynic might feel compelled to point out the hypocrisy of such a policy. Especially when John Tamihere has compared the party to the head-hunters on national TV and then had the party leader intervene to get his membership approved. Double especially when Shane Jones gets to attack the Green Party on matters he holds no portfolio for and yet faces no censure. And that’s not even talking about the way caucus members themselves have brought the party into disrepute with their online antics.
But rather than be that cynical, I’ll just stick to pointing out the fact that the Labour Party membership is the lowest it has been in the history of the party and that to try to introduce such a proscriptive and draconian policy would only encourage that number to sink even lower.
It’s also antithetical to every theory of organising in the modern age that I can think of. Almost without exception member and volunteer based organisations are opening up their discourse and flattening their hierarchy as they realise that in the age of social media people need to feel connected and that they have a voice if you want them to join your organisation and help build your cause. In this light, telling people that joining the party means shutting the f*ck up on the internet isn’t really a winner.
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- Release: Working together on consistent support for veterans this Anzac DayOur two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Penny drops – but what about Seymour and Peters?Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...2 weeks ago
- Another ‘Stolen Generation’ enabled by court ruling on Waitangi Tribunal summonsTonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...2 weeks ago
- Release: Budget blunder shows Nicola Willis could cut recovery fundingIt appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...3 weeks ago
- Further environmental mismanagement on the cardsThe Government’s resource management reforms will add to the heavy and ever-growing burden this Government is loading on to our environment. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: RMA changes will be a disaster for environmentThe Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Labour supports urgent changes to emergency management systemLabour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Labour calls for New Zealand to recognise PalestineThe Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Three strikes law political posturing of worst kindThe Government is bringing back a law that has little evidential backing just to look tough, Labour justice spokesperson Duncan Webb said. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Government cuts unbelievably target child exploitation, violent extremism, ports and airpor...Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...3 weeks ago
- Three strikes has failed before and will fail againResurrecting the archaic three-strikes legislation is an unwelcome return to a failed American-style approach to justice. ...3 weeks ago
- Release: Environmental protection vital, not ‘onerous’The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...3 weeks ago
- New Zealand supports UN Palestine resolution
New Zealand voted in favour of a resolution broadening Palestine’s participation at the United Nations General Assembly overnight, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The resolution enhances the rights of Palestine to participate in the work of the UN General Assembly while stopping short of admitting Palestine as a full ...2 hours ago - Speech to the 2024 Infrastructure SymposiumIntroduction Good morning. It’s a great privilege to be here at the 2024 Infrastructure Symposium. I was extremely happy when the Prime Minister asked me to be his Minister for Infrastructure. It is one of the great barriers holding the New Zealand economy back from achieving its potential. Building high ...17 hours ago
- $571 million for Defence pay and projectsDefence Minister Judith Collins today announced the upcoming Budget will include new funding of $571 million for Defence Force pay and projects. “Our servicemen and women do New Zealand proud throughout the world and this funding will help ensure we retain their services and expertise as we navigate an increasingly ...22 hours ago
- Climate change – mitigating the risks and costsNew Zealand’s ability to cope with climate change will be strengthened as part of the Government’s focus to build resilience as we rebuild the economy, Climate Change Minister Simon Watts says. “An enduring and long-term approach is needed to provide New Zealanders and the economy with certainty as the climate ...22 hours ago
- Getting new job seekers on the pathway to workJobseeker beneficiaries who have work obligations must now meet with MSD within two weeks of their benefit starting to determine their next step towards finding a job, Social Development and Employment Minister Louise Upston says. “A key part of the coalition Government’s plan to have 50,000 fewer people on Jobseeker ...2 days ago
- Accelerating Social InvestmentA new standalone Social Investment Agency will power-up the social investment approach, driving positive change for our most vulnerable New Zealanders, Social Investment Minister Nicola Willis says. “Despite the Government currently investing more than $70 billion every year into social services, we are not seeing the outcomes we want for ...2 days ago
- Getting Back on TrackCheck against delivery Good morning. It is a pleasure to be with you to outline the Coalition Government’s approach to our first Budget. Thank you Mark Skelly, President of the Hutt Valley Chamber of Commerce, together with your Board and team, for hosting me. I’d like to acknowledge His Worship ...2 days ago
- NZ – European Union ties more critical than everYour Excellency Ambassador Meredith, Members of the Diplomatic Corps and Ambassadors from European Union Member States, Ministerial colleagues, Members of Parliament, and other distinguished guests, Thank you everyone for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen - In diplomacy, we often speak of ‘close’ and ‘long-standing’ relations. ...3 days ago
- Therapeutic Products Act to be repealedThe Therapeutic Products Act (TPA) will be repealed this year so that a better regime can be put in place to provide New Zealanders safe and timely access to medicines, medical devices and health products, Associate Health Minister Casey Costello announced today. “The medicines and products we are talking about ...3 days ago
- Decisions on Wellington City Council’s District PlanThe Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, today released his decision on twenty recommendations referred to him by the Wellington City Council relating to its Intensification Planning Instrument, after the Council rejected those recommendations of the Independent Hearings Panel and made alternative recommendations. “Wellington notified its District Plan on ...3 days ago
- Rape Awareness Week: Government committed to action on sexual violenceRape Awareness Week (6-10 May) is an important opportunity to acknowledge the continued effort required by government and communities to ensure that all New Zealanders can live free from violence, say Ministers Karen Chhour and Louise Upston. “With 1 in 3 women and 1 in 8 men experiencing sexual violence ...3 days ago
- Smarter lunch programme feeds more, costs lessAssociate Education Minister David Seymour has today announced that the Government will be delivering a more efficient Healthy School Lunches Programme, saving taxpayers approximately $107 million a year compared to how Labour funded it, by embracing innovation and commercial expertise. “We are delivering on our commitment to treat taxpayers’ money ...3 days ago
- Report provides insights into marine recoveryNew research on the impacts of extreme weather on coastal marine habitats in Tairāwhiti and Hawke’s Bay will help fishery managers plan for and respond to any future events, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. A report released today on research by Niwa on behalf of Fisheries New Zealand ...3 days ago
- NZ to send political delegation to the PacificDeputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Winston Peters will lead a broad political delegation on a five-stop Pacific tour next week to strengthen New Zealand’s engagement with the region. The delegation will visit Solomon Islands, Papua New Guinea, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, and Tuvalu. “New Zealand has deep and ...3 days ago
- Low gas production threatens energy securityThere has been a material decline in gas production according to figures released today by the Gas Industry Co. Figures released by the Gas Industry Company show that there was a 12.5 per cent reduction in gas production during 2023, and a 27.8 per cent reduction in gas production in the ...3 days ago
- Defence industry talent, commitment recognisedDefence Minister Judith Collins tonight announced the recipients of the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for Industry, saying they all contribute to New Zealanders’ security and wellbeing. “Congratulations to this year’s recipients, whose innovative products and services play a critical role in the delivery of New Zealand’s defence capabilities, ...3 days ago
- Speech to the Minister of Defence Awards of Excellence for IndustryWelcome to you all - it is a pleasure to be here this evening.I would like to start by thanking Greg Lowe, Chair of the New Zealand Defence Industry Advisory Council, for co-hosting this reception with me. This evening is about recognising businesses from across New Zealand and overseas who in ...3 days ago
- Speech to the Sixth Annual New Zealand Government Data SummitIt is a pleasure to be speaking to you as the Minister for Digitising Government. I would like to thank Akolade for the invitation to address this Summit, and to acknowledge the great effort you are making to grow New Zealand’s digital future. Today, we stand at the cusp of ...4 days ago
- Ceasefire agreement needed now: PetersNew Zealand is urging both Israel and Hamas to agree to an immediate ceasefire to avoid the further humanitarian catastrophe that military action in Rafah would unleash, Foreign Minister Winston Peters says. “The immense suffering in Gaza cannot be allowed to worsen further. Both sides have a responsibility to ...4 days ago
- Daily school attendance data now availableA new online data dashboard released today as part of the Government’s school attendance action plan makes more timely daily attendance data available to the public and parents, says Associate Education Minister David Seymour. The interactive dashboard will be updated once a week to show a national average of how ...4 days ago
- Ambassador to United States appointedForeign Minister Winston Peters has announced Rosemary Banks will be New Zealand’s next Ambassador to the United States of America. “Our relationship with the United States is crucial for New Zealand in strategic, security and economic terms,” Mr Peters says. “New Zealand and the United States have a ...4 days ago
- New permit proposed for recreational gold miningThe Government is considering creating a new tier of minerals permitting that will make it easier for hobby miners to prospect for gold. “New Zealand was built on gold, it’s in our DNA. Our gold deposits, particularly in regions such as Otago and the West Coast have always attracted fortune-hunters. ...4 days ago
- NZ and the UAE launch FTA negotiationsMinister for Trade Todd McClay today announced that New Zealand and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) will commence negotiations on a free trade agreement (FTA). Minister McClay met with his counterpart UAE Trade Minister Dr Thani bin Ahmed Al Zeyoudi in Dubai, where they announced the launch of negotiations on a ...4 days ago
- New Zealand Sign Language Week an opportunity for anyone to signNew Zealand Sign Language Week is an excellent opportunity for all Kiwis to give the language a go, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. This week (May 6 to 12) is New Zealand Sign Language (NZSL) Week. The theme is “an Aotearoa where anyone can sign anywhere” and aims to ...5 days ago
- Next stop NASA for New Zealand studentsSix tertiary students have been selected to work on NASA projects in the US through a New Zealand Space Scholarship, Space Minister Judith Collins announced today. “This is a fantastic opportunity for these talented students. They will undertake internships at NASA’s Ames Research Center or its Jet Propulsion Laboratory (JPL), where ...5 days ago
- $1.9 billion investment to keep NZ safe from crimeNew Zealanders will be safer because of a $1.9 billion investment in more frontline Corrections officers, more support for offenders to turn away from crime, and more prison capacity, Corrections Minister Mark Mitchell says. “Our Government said we would crack down on crime. We promised to restore law and order, ...5 days ago
- OECD reinforces need to control spendingThe OECD’s latest report on New Zealand reinforces the importance of bringing Government spending under control, Finance Minister Nicola Willis says. The OECD conducts country surveys every two years to review its members’ economic policies. The 2024 New Zealand survey was presented in Wellington today by OECD Chief Economist Clare Lombardelli. ...5 days ago
- Agreement delivers Local Water Done Well for AucklandThe Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...6 days ago
- Gaza and the Pacific on the agenda with GermanyForeign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...7 days ago
- Decision allows for housing growth in Western Bay of PlentyThe Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...1 week ago
- Speech to New Zealand China CouncilThank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...1 week ago
- Modern insurance law will protect Kiwi householdsThe Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...1 week ago
- Government recommits to equal payThe coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...1 week ago
- Transforming how our children learn to readStructured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...1 week ago
- NZ not backing down in Canada dairy disputeTrade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...1 week ago
- Stronger oversight for our most vulnerable childrenThe rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...1 week ago
- Streamlining Building Consent ChangesThe Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...1 week ago
- Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...1 week ago
- Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...1 week ago
- Accelerating airport security linesFrom today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...1 week ago
- Cold houses to blame for people needing to 'blast the heater' – Green Building Counc...
New Zealand's housing building standards are decades behind most other countries in the OECD, green building advocates say. ...1 hour ago - Austerity For Everyone Except Weapons Dealers
“Instead of following along countries that are investing in death and better ways of killing people faster, we need to invest in life and in making Aotearoa a fair, just and equitable place where everyone has what they need for a dignified life.” ...1 hour ago - The Secret Diary of .. Te Pāti Māori
MARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI, TPM MP FOR TAI TOKERAU This Government will not waver in its mission to exterminate Māori. CHRISTOPHER LUXON Oh well look you know I don’t think that hard-working Kiwis want to hear language like that. It’s just really unhelpful rhetoric. My Government is genuinely committed to advancing outcomes ...1 hour ago - When body positivity morphs into toxic masculinityThe body positivity movement started with women confronting the unrealistic expectations and unrepresentative portrayals of them in media and advertising. Men weren’t part of it … their bodies hadn’t been sexualised to the same extremes and they didn’t really need it. But now that’s changed. And in a warped sort ...1 hour ago
- ‘A curse and a blessing’: Ginette McDonald on how Lyn of Tawa changed her life
The New Zealand comedy legend takes us through her life in television, including the time she hugged Elton John and the unshakeable legacy of a girl named Lyn. In 1981, Ginette McDonald stood on the stage of Auckland’s St James Theatre and directly addressed Queen Elizabeth II. It was a ...2 hours ago - ‘Mothering looked beautiful but also chaotic and stifling’: On flatting with a newbornAn essay by Lily Duval from the just-released anthology Otherhood: Essays on being childless, childfree and child adjacent. I was 22 when my friend Alice gave birth in the living room of our pokey Addington flat. She laboured in the blow-up pool for hours. Garish fish swam along the inflated ...2 hours ago
- Motherhood: A reading journeyElla Borrie on the best books about motherhood she’s come across so far. Over the past few years I’ve been drawn to books about motherhood. I’m fascinated by the joys and horrors of becoming a parent. The question of children also feels more pressing than it used to. It’s like ...2 hours ago
- The Steve Awards 2024: Honouring the year’s worst Mother’s Day marketingOut of gift ideas for mum? You can’t go wrong with a bottle of toilet cleaner and a new squeegee. Emily Writes is the writer and editor of Emily Writes Weekly. This week marks five years since I published a post on The Spinoff about Mother’s Day marketing titled ‘A ...2 hours ago
- The Sunday Essay: A buzzy yearMy husband is posted overseas for 12 months and I’m armed with an expensive, newfangled vibrator. Will I miss him? The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand. A few days after my husband leaves, a new sex toy arrives at the front door. Nestled ...2 hours ago
- Tracing four decades of Wellington street artJaimie Baird’s new book Here Today Gone Tomorrow is a record of four decades of graffiti and street art in Wellington, told through more than 1,200 photographs. He spoke with Joel MacManus about what inspired the book. How did you first get interested in photographing street art? I remember ...2 hours ago
- The Weekend: How the woke sausage is madeEditor Madeleine Chapman looks back at a busy week where food of all political leanings dominated. Sometimes you’re just going about your week thinking you’ve got a good handle on what might be coming as far as news topics and then someone (usually a politician) says something so ridiculous that ...2 hours ago
- Short story: Message me, by Lucy O’ConnorA banner notification alerts me to the fact that I’ve received an Instagram message from @felicity.loves. She always comments on my posts. I shouldn’t have opened the message, but clicked on the notification before rationalising this. OMG! Are you in Wellys? X I debate not replying, but Instagram will inform ...2 hours ago
- Callum Donaldson has his head in the gameIn Melbourne’s hardscrabble western suburbs where AFL – Aussie rules football – is a state religion, Callum Donaldson has been quietly grafting away, four months into an odyssey that he hopes will take him to another promised land: the NRL. It was a solid 2023 for the softly spoken 20-year-old ...2 hours ago
- TVNZ Pacific correspondent Barbara Dreaver awarded ONZM for investigative journalism
Pacific Media Watch Television New Zealand Pacific correspondent Barbara Dreaver has been made an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit for services to investigative journalism and Pacific communities in a ceremony at Government House, reports 1News. She has been the Pacific correspondent for 1News since 2002, breaking many ...6 hours ago - Budget to pledge billions more in funds and fresh effort to tackle intractable housing crisisSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Tuesday’s budget will respond to the deepening public agitation over Australia’s housing shortages by pouring new money into crisis accommodation for women and children, social housing and infrastructure. A specially-convened national cabinet late Friday ticked ...6 hours ago
- Pacific journalists are world’s ‘eyes and ears’ on climate crisis, says EU envoyBy Kaneta Naimatu in Suva Journalists in the Pacific region play an important role as the “eyes and ears on the ground” when it comes to reporting the climate crisis, says the European Union’s Pacific Ambassador Barbara Plinkert. Speaking at The University of the South Pacific (USP) on World Press ...9 hours ago
- Why the Defence Force has been calling for a Budget boostFailing accommodation, tarmac problems and a deteriorating naval base were all laid bare before a $571 million spend-up was unveiled today. ...9 hours ago
- Back in Black: Aldora’s year gets even betterAldora Itunu is back in the Black Ferns squad after a three-year absence. The last of her 24 internationals was an underwhelming loss to France (7-29) in Castres to conclude the disastrous 2021 Northern Tour. The powerhouse prop won a Rugby World Cup in 2017 and thought she was done. ...10 hours ago
- ‘Who’s actually governing this city?’The fight to control major transport policy and projects in Auckland has burst into the open again, with councillors rejecting Mayor Wayne Brown’s latest attempt to steer things more under his influence. Councillors from the left and right broke ranks on the mayor’s bid to control Auckland Transport more directly ...10 hours ago
- The return of .. Raw PoliticsExhausted by the general election campaign, horrified by the twilight zone of coalition negotiations, distracted by the silly season and waiting for the honeymoon to begin, Raw Politics has been in hibernation since October. From today, we’re back. Our weekly political video show and podcast returns for ...10 hours ago
- New Caledonia marks Armistice Day with new NZ war memorialBy Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk Authorities in the small town of Boulouparis have commemorated Armistice Day on May 8 with a new memorial honouring New Zealand soldiers who were stationed in New Caledonia during World War II. The ceremony took place in the township on the ...10 hours ago
- High Court dismisses key challenge to indefinite immigration detention. What does it mean?Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sara Dehm, Senior lecturer, international migration and refugee law, University of Technology Sydney The High Court unanimously ruled today that the Australian government can keep asylum seekers in immigration detention indefinitely in cases where they do not “voluntarily” cooperate with their own ...13 hours ago
- A brief history of found footage video art – and where Macklemore’s Hind’s Hall fits inSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kim Munro, Lecturer, Creative Industries and Digital Media, University of South Australia Twenty-four hours after the release of Macklemore’s pro-Palestine protest song Hind’s Hall on social media on May 7, the video had already notched up over 24 million views. In ...13 hours ago
- Transmission Gully could need new bulider – Infrastructure Commission reviewFailing to anticipate the complexity of the consenting system is being cited as the the current builder's shortcomings, an Infrastructure Commission review says. ...13 hours ago
- Proposed repeal of Oranga Tamariki Act section 7AA breaches Treaty of Waitangi – TribunalThe government is planning to repeal Treaty obligations from the Oranga Tamariki Act. ...14 hours ago
- Committee Silences Majority Of Submitters On Fast-track Bill350 Aotearoa is calling the Environment Select Committee’s decision to allow oral submissions from just 40% of individual, unique submitters who asked to speak to the committee ‘a disgraceful blight to democracy’. ...14 hours ago
- Sky-high vanity: constructing the world’s tallest buildings creates high emissionsSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Helal, Assistant Dean (Sustainability), The University of Melbourne Dubai skyline AleksandarPasaric/Pexels Since ancient times, people have built structures that reach for the skies – from the steep spires of medieval towers to the grand domes of ancient cathedrals and mosques. Today ...14 hours ago
- How can we measure the size of Australia’s illegal cannabis market – and the billions in taxes t...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Jenny Williams, Professor of Economics, The University of Melbourne Canna Obscura/Shutterstock At the end of this month, a senate inquiry by the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Legislation Committee is due to hand down its report on a bill to legalise cannabis. ...14 hours ago
- Wearable devices can now harvest our brain data. Australia needs urgent privacy reformsSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Edward Musole, PhD Law Student, University of New England Girts Ragelis/Shutterstock Recent trends show Australians are increasingly buying wearables such as smartwatches and fitness trackers. These electronics track our body movements or vital signs to provide data throughout the day, with ...16 hours ago
- Labour Up, Greens Down But Centre-Right Remains AheadThis is the first time since February that voters have had a net positive view of the country direction. ...16 hours ago
- RNZAF Hercules, NZDF Personnel Arrive In Papua New Guinea To Help Distribute Relief SuppliesPapua New Guinea experienced a significant earthquake on 24 March in East Sepik and there has also been recent flooding there and in surrounding provinces. ...16 hours ago
- Sleep wrinkles are real. Here’s how they leave their markSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Yousuf Mohammed, Dermatology researcher, The University of Queensland Maridav/Shutterstock You wake up, stagger to the bathroom and gaze into the mirror. No, you’re not imagining it. You’ve developed face wrinkles overnight. They’re sleep wrinkles. Sleep wrinkles are temporary. But as your ...17 hours ago
- Week in Politics: Triumph and disaster, but no austerityAnalysis - A big announcement about Auckland's water woes was overshadowed by a chaotic press conference about prisons, Peter Wilson writes. ...17 hours ago
- Community Groups Furious That Government Silencing Hundreds In Fast-Track HearingsThe Environment Select Committee has just announced that 60 percent of individuals who asked to speak at the hearings will not be heard. This equates to almost 700 people who made individual submissions and more than 1000 more who made a form submission. ...17 hours ago
- Review: Swan Lake is a reminder of how much work it takes to look effortlessThe Royal New Zealand Ballet is performing Swan Lake around the country. What kind of dream does the ballet sell? Before going to see the Royal New Zealand Ballet perform Swan Lake, I had about as much familiarity with the plot of this ballet as could be expected from having ...17 hours ago
- The Friday Poem: ‘High Tide at Local Maxima’ by Eamonn TeeA new poem by Auckland poet Eamonn Tee. High Tide at Local Maxima It is only going to get worse. The streams will be narrow and fickle. The week will bend and buckle like a pot-bellied waist. You will make it to the weekend with one ...17 hours ago
- The plastic-heavy drinks industry is in for a shake-upThe New Zealand entrepreneur behind beauty business Ethique is gearing up to launch a new eco-venture. This is an excerpt from our weekly environmental newsletter Future Proof. Sign up here. Our thirst for a tasty bevvy is insatiable, but it comes with a hefty plastic price for the planet: 580 billion ...17 hours ago
- The Unity Books bestseller chart for the week ending May 10The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington. AUCKLAND 1 James by Percival Everett (Mantle, $38) A retelling of The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn from ...18 hours ago
- Puna calls for Pacific ‘journalistic vigilance’ in face of climate crisisBy Kamna Kumar in Suva Pacific Islands Forum Secretary-General Henry Puna stressed the importance of media freedom and its link to the climate and environmental crisis at the 2024 World Press Freedom Day event organised by the University of the South Pacific’s journalism programme. Under the theme “A Planet for ...18 hours ago
- Downsizing Of ERO Inconsistent With Govt Priority Of Lifting Student AchievementThe PSA is concerned that Government spending cuts have forced ERO to downsize at a time when student achievement is a significant challenge. ...18 hours ago
- Education Review Office set to cut 13 jobs, union saysThe Education Review Office is set to cut 13 jobs, the Public Service Association says. ...18 hours ago
- Judith Collins announces $571 million Defence spend-upAn extra half a billion dollars is going to Defence in this year's Budget for pay and equipment upgrades, the Defence Minister has announced. ...19 hours ago
- This new TVNZ anthology is Motherhood as you’ve never seen it beforeTara Ward previews a new local TV series offering alternative visions of motherhood. This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. A woman is clambering up the side of her two-story house, clinging desperately to a drainpipe. Nearby, her child is perched on the ...19 hours ago
- LGNZ Supportive Of Cross-party Approach To Climate AdaptationLocal Government New Zealand (LGNZ) is supportive of the cross-party approach to climate adaptation announced by the Minister of Climate Change today. ...20 hours ago
- SBC And CLC Welcome Bipartisan Climate Adaptation InquiryThe Sustainable Business Council (SBC) and Climate Leaders Coalition (CLC) welcome today’s announcement from Government around a bipartisan inquiry into an enduring climate adaptation framework for New Zealand. ...20 hours ago
- Another Victory For Free Speech: DIA Abandons Proposals For Online CensorshipThe Free Speech Union welcomes the decision by the Department of Internal Affairs, and Minister Brooke Van Velden, to abandon proposals to further regulate online speech. ...20 hours ago
- Confused or playing for time? 3 possible reasons NZ is taking so long to make a call on AUKUSSource: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Robert G. Patman, Professor of International Relations, University of Otago Getty Images New Zealand governments have been actively exploring the option of joining pillar two of AUKUS for over a year now. But according to foreign minister Winston Peters, the government ...20 hours ago
- Archives NZ says it has enough space – for nowIts new building in Wellington will not be nearly big enough for all its records, and it has also run out of money to build its new storage facility in Levin. ...21 hours ago
- Consensus WelcomedBusinessNZ is congratulating the Minister of Climate Change for his work in achieving cross-party consensus for a way forward on climate adaptation. ...21 hours ago
- How many lives is that tax cut worth?Recent research reveals the repeal of smokefree measures is not only bad for our health, but also the economy. The Government has repealed various smokefree measures to ensure it keeps collecting $1.2 billion a year in tobacco taxes, in order to pay for tax cuts already being delivered to ...21 hours ago
- How the Phoenix went from wooden spoon favourites to title contendersThe club’s surprisingly good season is built on the desire to prove a random A-League YouTuber wrong… and a few other factors. “There’s no way that Wellington Phoenix play finals this year. I can’t see it happening at all.” Those are the words of Lachlan Raeside, an Australian football content ...21 hours ago
- Ministry cuts will harm Pacific health, wellbeing – unionThe PSA is warning cuts at the Ministry for Pacific Peoples will have severe consequences for the health and wellbeing of Pasifika families. ...22 hours ago
- Power shortages: What's being done to keep the lights on?Officials are looking at better ways of choosing who gets the power during shortages amid relentlessly growing demands. ...22 hours ago
- No more bad accents, stereotypes or cringe: why the rise of multilingual TV is good news for everyon...Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By César Albarrán-Torres, Senior Lecturer, Department of Media and Communication, Swinburne University of Technology Apple TV+ As one of billions of bilingual individuals in the world, it disappoints me when a film or TV show with characters of a non-English-speaking background is ...22 hours ago
- It’s time to ditch Berhampore Golf CourseThe under-utilised course is a waste of space, and with a little political will, it could be turned into something better. For the duration of her stay in Wellington, my long-suffering cousin listened to me rant about golf courses. They’re bad for the environment: water intensive and pesticide heavy. They ...22 hours ago
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“… (who will go unnamed) …”
Why?
Because I’m hoping they see the error of their ways and I don’t want to paint them into a corner.
Nah, just name ’em.
Yep. The members are wondering who should be persuaded/cajoled/forced into early retirement.
Yeah fuck ’em. And what micky said.
It’s weird – I’m agreeing with both mickysavage and felix… [ tilts head and ponders recent changes of medication ]
Haha burt. So did you finally take the red pill?
I’d “duck” that one…
Ive had a gutsful of allegations against un-named people on this website. if you have proper proof and want to be taken seriously, for phucks sake name names, if not shut up!!!
Oh noes! Will you have a really big tanty?
Anonymous public allegations have been a feature of politics since, um, I dunno, politics was invented. cf: Roman graffiti, etc.
Get used to it.
As are secret meetings and decisions in camera. But everyone was crying foul about them the other day.
I suspect a bit of murk in this. Someone may have said something in passing to someone, and it is now being blown up into a full paranoid wankfest. Actually naming someone would destroy the story. Even if it isn’t true, if it runs for a few days it will add to the sense of persecution that some here seem to thrive on.
They wont feel painted in a corner, after all, we just sit in rooms behind dark curtains.
What is threatening about us?
Oh wait…
You mean…
That was all bullshit? Perhaps bloggers are real people.
IrishBill
Name em, for goodness sake – who the hell wants a party where the only way to silence some fool is to make them so scared of being humiliated that they shut up.
You make a great point about the folly of their position, I agree entirely with what you have posted in this thread. If they are agitating to shut up party members so party members only talk the party line then lets know who these buffoons are. They are out of touch with the way of the world today and we deserve to know who they are so they don’t fool us into thinking they have the capability to represent us.
I don’t believe it I’m going to quote Burt
“Name em, for goodness sake – who the hell wants a party where the only way to silence some fool is to make them so scared of being humiliated that they shut up. ”
Burt’s got a point, the only way to shut a fool up is to expose them to even more ridicule, not only that, the speculation as to who will start. As soon as I read the post a name had already popped unbidden into my mind.
Buckle up Burt, cos National’s going bye bye.
Surely it is more useful to have party followers who will passively take instructions, rather than active party members who may cause issues and express dissent.
By the way, have you noticed how the Labour party machinery has been declining all over the country? This makes getting favoured candidates centrally selected a very easy process.
By the way, have you noticed how the Labour party machinery has been declining all over the country?
Yes. And the party vote and the number of electorates the party holds.
Blinded by the “Ideological Brilliance” coming out their own arse M8!
Some DunnoKeyo phrases come to mind …
“We have a Mandate”
“The Party Line”
“Off the Record”
“Plausible Deniability”
“Back Room Boys”
“Old Boys Club”
That’s it, no one’s gonna vote for a Gnat clone party , c yas 🙂
But if they don’t read blogs why would they worry about what people say on them? Or is it that they are concerned that members might do some independent thinking, oh a bit like they did at conference….?
Yes Little says the blogs don’t vote although he may need to rethink that one because folks interested in politics always vote. (people who talk about Little being a future leader think again)
If these blog denier fools were interested in democracy they would take notice of what the people they claim to represent actually have to say. If having some home truths voiced upsets them they are in the wrong job or the wrong Party.
fender
The whole basic mentality of solidarity must actually be challenged by blogs. Basically ‘we all talk as one’ is a founding principle for the Labour movement. Tough times for Labour…
IMHO it’s a good time for Labour to return to it’s root’s – if that means party vote share of 30% then so be it. It’s a workers rights party not a everything to everyone party like it’s got away with being in a controlled media environment….
😯
Yeah pretty much dude. Appreciate your support too 😀
What sort of rules Irish Bill?
On a possibly unrelated note, my membership has not yet been ratified though I paid my dues a couple of weeks ago.
You will find that it takes a while. Head office is severely under staffed. Last I heard, the sudden rush of members put them literally weeks behind.
As long as it doesn’t take til the end of February 2013…
Maybe David will put a good word in for you. Seems to be the way to get membership
Attempting to censor the everyday conversation (apparently by non-voters that nobody pays any attention to) on the internet. Really, that’s just too funny…
As for controlling it – imagine what it would take to work out the pseudonyms… and on the pseudonym point the reason for having them has just been established beyond doubt.
No chance that this will be taken seriously.
Not to mention what might happen if they kicked Lynn Prentice out of the party. Honestly, you can tell this hasn’t been thought through.
On the other hand, should all conversations held by members, esp higher up members, be fair game to be discussed on the internet? There is some kind of irony here, and I do feel somewhat uncomfortable with speculating about something that someone might have said – sorry IB, that’s not a dig at you, I’m just imagining hypothetical scenarios where this might be a problem.
On the other other hand, if the Labour party hadn’t been so dismissive of its members, esp those members that spend time in the blogosphere, it might now be getting treated with more respect.
The other issue is would the new rules apply only to blogging? What about other media? No letters to the editor? No commenting in discussions online? No talking out loud at public meetings?
“The other issue is would the new rules apply only to blogging? What about other media? No letters to the editor? No commenting in discussions online? No talking out loud at public meetings?
Yep, I can’t see why there would be different rules for different media.
There is a valid issue of bringing the party that you are a member of into disrepute, but that’s a quite different to some people talking on a blog. There are, I guess, already rules around that, and John Tamihere’s membership shows that bar is set very high. I can’t see any reason for different rules for blogging and commenting on blogs.
Got raised in NZ Council when the Tamihere membership went through from what I have heard. But I have literally been too busy to follow up.
How to prove your political party is stuck in the past:
Step 1: Try to censor people on the internet.
I wouldn’t be surprised if whatever politician this was didn’t understand the difference between “the internet” or “the web” anyway.
Step 2: Assume you can really identify who a person is on the internet, especially on sites you have no control over.
I’d dearly love to see the logistical planning involved. Sourcing the naughty comments, doxing the commenters’ handles, comparing to the membership list … but let’s be honest, the whole point of any policy change would clearly be to punish members whose identities are already well-documented (and who have been saying things said senior MP doesn’t like.)
You would be surprised QoT at the angst the Standard has caused some Labour MPs.
You would be thoroughly amused QoT at the angst the Standard has caused some Labour MPs.
Fixed it for you!
😀
That will explain their weird behaviour as they must taking tranquilisers for the anxiety.
Is it the feathered one I wonder.
They just need to set up a special team to coordinate and carry out a thorough “investigation” of these heretics…they could even dress in nice Party colours…perhaps something like this one
Sorry – I’ll get my coat.
I’d dearly love to see the logistical planning involved. Sourcing the naughty comments, doxing the commenters’ handles, comparing to the membership list …
There’s already a bit of that kind of thing going on. It’s why I won’t comment on Red Alert.
same
There really must be a point where we decide that we don’t give a shit.
Who cares if Scary Clare, Mumbles or the rest of the gang put us on a naughty list?
Lets see them try and win an election without foot soldiers, should they try to censor the internet.
… I’m kind of tickled by the notion (taking the scenario of the post to the extreme) that Labour could theoretically ban its own members from commenting on its own blog.
So, who’s a senior Labour MP who has been criticised a lot lately on blogs? I can think of only one. I bet it’s him.
Dya mean David Shearer?
Ah, the joys of semantics … does IB mean senior as in power level, or senior as in tenure? Wheels within wheels …
Yes theres a few to choose from, despite being told to pull their socks up they would rather make barefoot anyone with constructive criticism.
Queen Darling
“Senior” in Labour parlance means you are inside the clique supporting/using Shearer.
“Not Senior”, “Junior” etc means you are about to be purged.
Examples of “Senior” are people wrecking safe seats like Clare Curran and Chris Hipkins or List only orphans like Fenton, Cosgrove and Ardern.
Examples of “Junior” (about to be purged) are strong seat winners like Cunliffe, Manhuta and Wall.
Simple, when you get the hang of it.
The person to whom IB is referring is Clare Curran.
Her immediate target is Colonial Viper.
You and I are next.
She’d wreck the reputation of Red Alert’s confidentiality and security if she was actually behind anything like that, or behind any move to gag ordinary party members; RA is after all a blog site set up for the Labour Party. Nothing makes people run from a blog faster than sysops you can’t have confidence in.
When they came for the Colonial Vipers I didn’t protest because I wasn’t a Colonial Viper…
And then they came for burt. But I didn’t protest because I wasn’t a burt…
And then they came for me but I didn’t protest because I wasn’t me.
( I changed my pseudonym, email and IP addresses)
Made me giggle a little bit.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cX8szNPgrEs
This appears very appropriate
Ha. Good luck censuring someone who isn’t a party member. Though I am now going to change all my passwords out of sheer online paranoia.
No I don’t know who it is. However if there is someone important in the Labour Party who wants to stop members expressing their views, that person and his/her mates should resign right now.
Look what happened in the 1980s when Labour let Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble and others have free reign.
+1
Does anyone know who voted to resurrect Roger Douglas after he was sacked by Lange, and are they still in the Labour Party?
That’s a big clue — I think I might know who it is now…
Doesnt really suprise me, mind you.
That’s laughable big brother stuff ‘censorship is good’ ‘freedom of speech is bad.’
This from an ‘inclusive’ Labour party or should that be the new excommunicated Labour party.
Hmm good luck putting that one to the affiliates.
What about their own blogsite “Red Alert”? Party members won’t be allowed to participate unless they have prior approval? I thought we fought a World War to prevent fascism and authoritarian regimes taking over our lands.
Would someone like to kindly tell this parliamentary Labour miscreant that a bit of honest reflection on certain very recent internal Labour events may assist him/her to comprehend why some in the Party have felt duty bound to be critical.
So let me get this straight, you’re launching an attack on the entire Labour party because somebody told you something that you can’t prove, and even if you did prove it it’s actually just one person’s action/opinion, that is, trying to convince a bunch of other people of something they believe with no ability to say for sure whether said opinion is actually going anywhere?
How fucking desperate.
I guess that’s what IB’s post looks like after you’ve filtered it through Derail-O-Vision.
What makes you think he can’t prove it?
I guess the problem Sam is:
1. The person is not some ordinary member. It’s someone with considerable experience and organisational power. That anyone else in the Labour Party has treated this risible idea with anything other than a polite snigger suggests that either this person has a lot of clout, or the idea has fallen on fertile ground.
Either way a bad look for the Labour Party as a whole.
2. Sure it’s one ‘persons’ opinion. But then again Irish Bill has been an author here at The Standard least as long as I can remember and I joined up within a few weeks of when this blog began. Over that time IB has written many dozens of posts on numerous Labour Party topics and has earned his own reputation and credibility with many regulars. You can’t fake that.
3. But you are right in this sense that until IB chooses for his own reasons to name the person he’s got in mind then it is more in the nature of a ‘warning shot over the bow’ rather than a direct hit. Fair enough.
Doesn’t stop the rest of us expressing our astonishment at the stupidity of the idea all the same.
I have personally witnessed some of the backstory to this post. And it is a damn nasty and personal business behind the scenes. If anything, IB has sugarcoated the facts of the situation with his restraint (that’s not a criticism btw).
Quietly silently went the little red fox
You won’t name them because you want them to see the error of their ways? Well, that’ll be effective.
I’m not Labour caucus apologist, but your refusal to name this MP gives this whole article the smack of smear.
Prove me wrong.
Yeah, pigman, you show IB who’s the big man around here.
Sadly your link didn’t work QoT. Clearly the presence of both the word “man” and “pig” in my nickname has tickled your interest, since you’re still trying to paint everything I say in sexist, gendered terms. Keep it up!
Gendered as in prickly, hoggy? While semantic slippage evokes the thought of a prick, I have to say that your point is small enough to be missed.
This behaviour on The Standard reminds me of a great passage from Lord of the Flies:
“There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws.”
This behaviour on The Standard reminds me of a great passage from Lord of the Flies:
“There were no words, and no movements but the tearing of teeth and claws.”
Yeah, you’re right. The ‘Beast’ emerged from their caucus , it was the ugly expression the cabal of power-hungry black-gowned hunters, the suits, who resisted the attempts of Simon the meek and mild to unpick the real nature of their society’s ills.
Now remind me again what this post’s supposedly about? Who are the victims in this? CV and a few others seem to be in the sights of the Thinkcrime investigators, and it’s a bit rich for the pigman to start blaming the littluns.
btw with the moniker you’ve chosen, better watch out. The inquisition’ll be coming for you next.
Nah, I was being snarky about your pointlessly aggressive tone. Try this link to get the point.
Well sometimes one lady’s “pointlessly aggressive tone” is another pigman’s probing sarcasm, but I enjoyed your pic so let’s leave it at that.
How do you smear someone without naming them?
You smear the Party, and even better the ABC club/Shearer (again, who I am no apologist for).
You need only read the thread to see all the assumptions people are leaping to without a shred of evidence.
“You smear the Party, and even better the ABC club/Shearer”
Where’s that, pigman? I don’t see anything in the post that points to, or even hints at the ABC club or Shearer. Of course if hearing that someone in Labour is being a fuckwit makes you immediately think of those people, then they’ve got bigger problems than this,
“You need only read the thread to see all the assumptions people are leaping to without a shred of evidence.”
Really? I see one person (Kandallah Man) leaping to one assumption, twice. Which is still only one assumption. What fucking thread are you reading?
One clearly needs a thick hide to survive on the standard against what quickly becomes a lynch mob of abuse… ergh.
The obvious drawing of assumptions by people is not necessarily translated into public accusations/people naming names. But since you’re not going to read through the thread, I’ll pick out the people naming/publicly drawing assumptions:
“Rich 1.1.1.3
7 December 2012 at 11:34 am
I’d “duck” that one…”
“fender 8.1.1.2
6 December 2012 at 10:47 pm
That will explain their weird behaviour as they must taking tranquilisers for the anxiety.
Is it the feathered one I wonder.”
“@dancerwaitakere 8.1.3.2
7 December 2012 at 12:09 pm
There really must be a point where we decide that we don’t give a shit.
Who cares if Scary Clare, Mumbles or the rest of the gang put us on a naughty list?”
“jaymam 10
6 December 2012 at 10:19 pm
So, who’s a senior Labour MP who has been criticised a lot lately on blogs? I can think of only one. I bet it’s him.”
Olwyn 10.1.2.1
7 December 2012 at 1:01 pm
+1
Reply
jaymam 10.1.2.1.1
7 December 2012 at 1:17 pm
Does anyone know who voted to resurrect Roger Douglas after he was sacked by Lange, and are they still in the Labour Party?
Reply
millsy 10.2
7 December 2012 at 7:51 am
That’s a big clue — I think I might know who it is now…
Doesnt really suprise me, mind you.”
“KhandallaMan 20
6 December 2012 at 11:47 pm
Only a PR professional from Dunedin South with a degree in anthropology would try to censor the Internet. ”
“Jane 20.3
7 December 2012 at 6:52 am
It can’t be Claire, surely she would know better than to suggest something like this, maybe someone like Annette King trying to find a way to shutdown this annoying interweb thingy.”
And fuck it,m I am not reading past post 20, because this is taking too much time and I don’t want to re-read this thread.
Answer me straight Felix, do you really consider that this post not naming the culprit doesn’t have the effect of causing people to draw assumptions/speculate about the identity of the person? I wouldn’t have thought that’s exactly a controversial statement.
Those time stamps are funny. What are they all about?
Swine flu
You put my +1 next to the wrong quote, which was this one by Jayman:
“No I don’t know who it is. However if there is someone important in the Labour Party who wants to stop members expressing their views, that person and his/her mates should resign right now. Look what happened in the 1980s when Labour let Roger Douglas and Richard Prebble and others have free reign.”
I am not an insider and have no idea as to who said what and to whom, but I agree with Jayman that someone important in the LP ought not to be stopping members from expressing their views, and also that members should be vigilant in trying ensure that we do not get another round like the 80s.
Nice one piggy, as Pb says those are almost all dated after my comment, except for one that I already noted from Kandallah Man and two that don’t do what you said they would.
For an example of what “leaping to assumptions” looks like for future reference, try this.
Irish Bill’s second paragraph is the clincher here.
Personally I don’t mind a bit of ruthless party discipline when there are elections to be won. Sure, round up all who show insufficient loyalty to the Cause, stick them in a dungeon, do whatever it takes. But start at the bloody top. Even the most rabid ranter on a blog can’t have the public impact of a Shane Jones or Trevor Mallard or John Tamihere. I’m still waiting for my invite from Q & A.
We aren’t shutting up because they aren’t. They could change that any time they like. Or be made to, by the leader. If he was one.
“We aren’t shutting up because they aren’t. They could change that any time they like.”
I suspect it would take something more than that to get us lot to shut up 🙂
They need to go to the source and ban free and contrary thinking or views – once the ban has been adhered and enforced blog posts won’t matter.
That is completely the wrong way to go. Given that caucus seemed so surprised by the vote at conference, it’s clear that they are out of touch with the mood of the wider party. Perhaps a forum for party members would be the way to go. Lock it off from public view and give members their own login when they apply or re-up their party membership. But sure as anything, it would be folly to attempt to cow people who are politically motivated enough to join a party in the first place from exercising their freedom of speech.
Pete
The problem that would occur in such a walled garden of party members only is that it would become quite inbreed and would serve little function in terms of robust debate. Any potential for flying a kite and seeing how it lifts would be lost also. However idea in terms of creating jerk circles for ‘yes here here’ debates about how perfect party policy is and how it will work so well.
But sure, good for dissemination of party political broadcasts.
The debate that occurs in the blogsphere has completely changed the political landscape, it has been doing so for years. Any jumped up ‘senior MP’ who hankers for the good old days of releasing carefully crafted press releases as the ‘last word’ on something has had their day….. Hopefully IrishBill will name this muppet so we get to know who the has been is.
The Green Party did, and I assume still does, run email lists for its members to discuss things on. It can be done in a good way.
Pete, a membership-only forum might be useful but it isn’t going to stop criticism of the Labour Party on blogs by Labour members. The problem is within the party, not within the blogosphere. Ever wonder why the Green Party members aren’t airing their dirty laundry in public?
weka
I don’t dispute blogs create sound members only forums. There is no dispute from me about this. My point was more that robust debate requires opposition to not just the party ideas but the party principles – the party is never “always right” on any level.
My opinion is that political blogs where folk speak freely is healthy for a party – but I’m not surprised it’s repugnant to the old school mentality of controlled press releases with no public debate.
“Ever wonder why the Green Party members aren’t airing their dirty laundry in public?”
Because they have good strong leadership with integrity. The Leadership in the Labour Party hasnt got those qualities so leaves a VOID which is being filled up by…well…everybody!
For a start, good leadership in the Labour Party would have dealt with the massive faction that has been generated in the Labour Party over the demotion of David Cunliffe (and his Team), instead it has chosen to ignore it….well, this is what you f#$%en well get.
Good Leadership would have dealt with this in the initial decision.
I have always thought that should happen. It’d leak like a sieve of course. But so do the LEC’s and members meetings.
Of even more use and a lot easier to set up would be a campaign organizers forum for cross country campaigning. Don’t bother with the PR campaign. Just the old boring sharing of ideas on electorate level campaigning.
So a elite forum for a small elite cadre….from one black kettle to , IMHO open connective ness campaign for three years, clinics , walk umongst the people and hear their voices not walled off in a circular room looking at yourselves in a mirror reflecting across the room.
Bang the drums, raise the flag, sing the song and raise the cry, united we stand and stand we must or too late for the people.
re-up their party membership
I’ve been re-watching The Wire recently, hence this phrasing is fucking hilarious to me.
” telling people that joining the party means shutting the f*ck up on the internet isn’t really a winner.”
They’re complete morons. It makes me sick.
Only a PR professional from Dunedin South with a degree in anthropology would try to censor the Internet.
FYI, Clare Curran is screwing up the once great Labour seat that was Dunedin South.
In 2011 Labour got 35% of the party vote, whereas we got 47% in 2008 and 57% in 2005.
In 2011 Clare got 49% agains 52% in 2005. Good old Benson-Pope got 57% in 2005.
She is performing very poorly. A Terrible Shocker, indeed. It is time for the Labour members in Dunedin South to question this crazy Luddite. She should be hauled up on front of the NZ Council and put on probation.
If it is Clare behind this then I would put money on her calling her amendment the “Promoting Internet Freedom and Engagement” rule.
The bigger picture is perhaps that people don’t like militant old school lefties who think they have all the answers.
It can’t be Claire, surely she would know better than to suggest something like this, maybe someone like Annette King trying to find a way to shutdown this annoying interweb thingy.
I crunched the numbers after the election and pointed this out to Clare in response to an article from Bryce Edwards on the blueing of Dunedin south. Her response was “I won didnt I” my point that the party vote contribution from labour south was dismal and is decreasing even allowing for the swing.
Dunedin south had a split and Helen Clark had to intervene as peace maker as the rebel branch controlled all the assets and cash.
My whole stance for last ten years has been that labour must reorganise, reengergise, reconnect and provide a bold direction and policy plan focused on the economy at macro level from the local and central level party.
Irony that Clare actively promotes OPEN government and the red alert interactive blog.
Power to the people…even if we had to resort to having our voice heard only on our own blog.
So on top of everything else, according to your anecdote Curran also doesn’t understand how MMP works. Wish I was surprised.
LOL, as soon as I read this post I thought of Clare Curran straight away.
So what they are saying is “let’s be like the Standard and ban anyone who has a different opinion to us?”
[lprent: We ban for particular behaviours. Just avoid the types of behaviour in our policy especially the self-martyrdom offenses and you shouldn’t have an issue. Of course the most common reason for getting permanent bans from here is to persistently express an opinion on how we should run our site. But I figure that people can best express their back seat driving skills from the back seat – kiwiblog for instance. ]
But if we ban people who don’t agree with us and you clearly don’t agree with us you must be banned which means you couldn’t make that comment which means I can’t be replying to it which means… OMG is this a blogosphere/space-time singularity?!
I can see forever!
But controlling everyone in everything they do to benefit the greater good is at the very heart of being left wing. That’s all they’re doing.
You’re confusing the libertarian/authoritarian axis with the left/right axis.
And where do you sit on that axis, IB?
Left. Clearly.
I meant the libertarian/authoritarian axis.
Funny thing is, over the years I’ve been involved in the Standard I’ve shifted more and more to the libertarian end of the spectrum.
…but from where you started, that’s quite a journey.
Oh you’ve joined the ACT party then?
Ron, you clearly need some political education. The libertarian right have laid claim to “libertarian” in recent times. But the libertarian left-libertarian socialism has been around for a long time.
Except, if I recall correctly, IB has claimed as something of a virtue his status as a member of the authoritarian left.
‘Cause he knows best.
I am aware of the self proclaimed libertarian left and the L-Right for that matter, To be honest I would prefer they call themselves Libetarian Selfish. It seem to describe them more accurately.
but hey whatever floats your boat./
‘Glibertarians’
libertarian socialists, aim for organisation in a network of small groups, nut without control from above by a state authority. It involves community co-operation – far from “selfish”. It’s not individualistic like the libertarianz right.
I’ve always thought that the only type of left worth being meant being on the libertarian end of the libertarian/authoritarian axis.
Its one of the lessons of failed socialist experiments in the likes of the old USSR.
Being libertarian doesn’t mean being sloppy, disorganised, unfocussed or undisciplined as a party.
It just means accepting some of your supporters will be a bit like that from your point of view, respecting their right to be that way, and trying to find positive ways of working with them so they became a source of strength rather than weakness.
This often leads to the joy of discovering somebody you thought was a dickhead sometimes actually knows better than you do yourself.
When you give people the space to raise a dissenting voice and present a case for doing or seeing something differently it is surprising with what they can come up with.
Doing this means sacrificing a bit of ego of course.
But it opens up the opportunity to learn and to grow, it encourages better quality thinking and ultimately it is the only way anything can change.
Authoritarianism can keep organisations focussed and on track for a while but ultimately leads to dumb organisations that need to become ever more authoritarian in order to cover up exactly how dumb they have become. Such organisations need leaders who aren’t too smart and surrond themselves with syncophants.
as opposed to the right agenda which is to pretend to not be trying to control everyone for the benefit of less than 10%.
Does National have an equivalent to the “Standard”?
They call them their “pollsters”
Kiwiblog is probably the closest. Somewhat more sycophantic probably due to DPF deriving a lot of income from polling for the Nats. Whaleoil is less reverential, but I believe that he takes money from PR firms instead.
Personally I tend to rate No Minister as being a better mix, if only because they are multi-author with a range of opinions.
Thanks. I’ve just had a quick look at the comments on Kiwiblog and they don’t appear to allow so called bad language.
I make this point because I suspect that the style of comment on The Standard may well put off many people who might otherwise support Labour. Like it or not The Standard is seen as Labour so maybe members of the Labour Party heirachy have good reasons to be concerned. In the end perceptions are reality, and votes caste in 2014 will be based on perceptions as always.
National owe a lot of its electoral success to a slick PR machine that is in the business of managing perceptions, I just hope that the flavour of The Standard is not hindering the cause it so strongly supports.
National owes ALL of it’s electoral success to ‘tax cut bribery’ and the promise to sell to those so enriched by the former the most profitable assets of the state,
Just thought a small correction to your comment was in order…
“Thanks. I’ve just had a quick look at the comments on Kiwiblog and they don’t appear to allow so called bad language.”
Then you didn’t look very hard.
You also obviously weren’t scanning for overt racism, open support of n@zism and white supremacy, misogyny and homophobia, religious extremism, or threats of violence against political opponents.
Seriously dude, holding up the comments section of Kiwiblog as an example to follow?
For realz?
Be fair. Someone once pointed out to him that a commenter was saying that Brievik style action was inevitable, and he steped right up and gave them some ‘demerit points’.
he has no problem whatsoever with people saying that ‘mulitculturalism’ (wink wink) is an existential threat to our way of life, but if someone suggests that we do anything about it, he’ll be writing them out some demerit points and recording them on a spreadsheet don’t you worry. If someone points it out him that is. He’s a busy guy.
True dat. He barely has time to encourage the hatred, let alone police it as well.
Those holiday snaps won’t take themselves you know.
Red Alert is a blog run by and for some Caucus members of the Labour Party. (The old guard)
The Standard postings clearly have the impression of being far more radical.
The old guard do not want policies as oft advocated on the Standard by some posters as they fear these will frighten the voters.
The posters however genuinely believe that the voters will welcome and support the new (actually recycled) policies.
When the caucus feels threatened by a blog – they will respond as they deem fit.
In other words they perceive that the Standard has morphed from being a blog that generally supports the Labour Party to a blog that generally supports a revolutionary Labour Party.
A fomenter of mischief.
This tension will only abate if the caucus and this blog align more. Pigs may be airborne sooner!!!
National avoids all of this and any suggestion of being undemocratic by not having blogs and being, well, undemocratic, while say they are for democracy and freedom./ It’s quite clever the way they deceive right out in the open like that.
Yes, this is an extension on the criticism of blogs by Shearer, Little and Cosgrove. The (older/dumber/backward) MP’s are annoyed at the transparency and openness of opinion that blogs create. The older Journo’s have the same issue.
MP’s have traditionally been able to use their powerful positions to bully members, the Blogs have clearly given members an avenue to disagree with the direction that their MP’s are moving, so the MP’s are looking for ways to stem this.
I am sure that we will never hear anymore about this initiative. More progressive members in the council would have told this particular MP to zip it. But the worry is that Labour has such a dinosaurs like this in its ranks, if Labour is ever to succeed with a good strong 3 term stint in power it needs to clean out lightweights like this, people who are so out of touch with the direction of media and how many of us are getting our information these days.
As a member I still feel embarrassed rather than proud of my representative MP’s…what a hopeless and self serving bunch. Unbelievingly their values seem so out of touch with the traditional values of Labour.
Power elite within labour are running scared that members both have power now, change is being forced upon them, and that via blogs etc we have a voice, are connected and are in some way, influencing event within labour and the MSM.
Take the cunliffe saga for example. Most commenters on TS promote cunliffe as a real leader, a man of change and having a direction and plan that we the members support and this thread was picked p by the MSM which ran with the vague notion that power to the membership was smoke and mirrors for a coup from within or actually from the outer rim of labour as its us the member driving and demanding change not the scared and power hungry elites.
Word of caution – words have power, a smokey mirror amplifies words, now we just need the deeds to reflect the words.
Damn, does this mean my chances of becoming a Labour Party member have been seriously diminished, the thought of that simply makes me want to giggle,
What the latest sounds like is someone in the Labour caucus trying to score a few brownie points with the Leader, Bwana Dave,
It’s a follow on from Bwana Dave’s wee moan about those who comment on The Standard, according to the word of the Bwana we should instead of openly commenting on-line, contact Bwana Dave personally with our concerns,
Simply turns the giggles into laughter….
Dickheads
My mum and dad, uncle’s and aunty’s, would be turning in their graves if they knew
what the labour party has become, a party of dictatorship,a party where members are
ignored, a party of division,a party of political self interest by mp’s/caucus, most mp’s are
elected by the people who make comments on the ‘interweby’ thing,i say that with tongue
in cheek,because obviously, those mp’s and leadership team dont really understand that
computers are not automatic open ended comment makers, there is ‘real’ people behind
the words that appear on blogs,message boards,twitter,etc,once mp’s etc understand
that,then they may accept that there is a high interest in how their favoured political
party is run and how it works for the people, who vote for it, also an interest for the people
who they vote for in electoral seats around the country, the thing is that it’s those interweby
people’s opinions that mp’s/caucus should be taking notice of and act in a manner that is
inclusive instead of dismissing and requesting some sort of sensorship.
The labour party,mp’s/caucus should get with the programme, this is 2012 , wise up.
It’s not likely to change until we get new dynamic people elected as MP’s which in the MMP era means that we need to have better people high up on the party list.
The question is how do we get good people on the list. Maybe the party needs to get rid of the deadwood in parliament and when in opposition is the only time to do this. Maybe we could hire Michelle Boag to come in and do a clean out. She certainly re-invigortaed National. But its not only the parlimentary wing that needs cleaning out we also need to look at the party itself. Part of the reason our Leader says he doesnt read blogs is becuase the whole technology thing is beyond him. We need a leader that understands the modern social media and knows how to use it.
So better people in the party and way better people on the party list.
Dear oh dear. The expression “trying to herd agitated cats” comes to mind, this time with the addendum “…by a sclerotic collie”.
Hope your Word is wrong Bill (on the other hand, wee burt and hiyastan agreeing….mmmmm….)
Dopiest bit is, the Stan’s influence is growing all the time: and the dreaded “infighting curse” is showing signs of losing effect, NB the last two polls. While the msm Tory scribes and the Farrarskis leapt on the Shearer/Cunners raruraru and whipped it up with glee, the result has been a shocker for them. Lab/grrr ahead leading into the hols.
Looks like any publicity is good publicity for Labradour at the mo’; I take it all back Standardistas, redouble your efforts and put the hot poker up the old mutt. It needs it: http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/8047797/Cold-Creek-water-bill-at-final-hurdle
I can understand the sentiment behind this brain-fart. Trevor Mallard’s Facebook springs to mind.
My eyes glaze over and I imagine the pitiful Mallard dragged to the guillotine in the public square, but no, I must resist this tempting prospect.
It would be a breach of his human rights.
Wasn’t Putin trying to limit dissent in Russia, the Chinese, USA setting up (supposedly) spoilers who would distract threads on blogs? Why shouldn’t Labour join the anti democratic, dumb-down-the -proles classic reaction to criticism and uncomfortable new ideas? They don’t show any signs of being able to grow a flourishing sport on this tired old tree.
“Just How Wrong Can You Get It?”
Well Shearer is the leader of the Labour Party he has no experience of the Party, Parliament, Public speaking, media presentations or management,he bumbles mumbles and he and his Caucus supporters have demoted and silenced Labours best performer.
So I would call it “Shearer Wrong” thats how wrong!
This is about how the Labour Party caucus still includes people of the 1980’s era.
They took action in the 1980’s that did not have party membership support and the party broke up – New Labour/Alliance.
Now Labour members have a part in electing Labour leaders – but not the one supported by the majority of the current caucus. And also a role in formulating policy.
How a future Labour caucus led government adapts to this will be interesting – that some in it want a strong central command over members is unsurprising – this gives the leader and his majority caucus faction the chance to use party discipline to bend the party to its will (silence those who might say that the Labour led government is not following party policy).
It reflects that some (1980’s era) MP’s feel subjugated by the greater party democracy (like a tyrant by the growing power of a parliament in the old era) then they want the same discipline on the party member as themselves. A sort of revenge. Some in caucus already leak stuff to the media against their own caucus rules – but possibly with their leaders knowledge and consent. I suppose they are asking party members to be bound in the same way – not to leak stuff openly under their own name, but to do so indirectly via third parties. To have to act as they do.
“…a senior Labour MP (who will go unnamed) has been lobbying National Council…”
Why exactly is he or she going unnamed?
Is Clare Curran going to impose a ban on saying “LOL” on the Internet?
Seriously though, how cool is the internet? Look at the power its given to the plebs (sorry population)
Note the first words of the article – ‘Word is’ that a nameless someone has said something pretty vague and unspecified to persons unknown.
This is rumour-mongering.
Dismiss it.
Sure is, but at least we can see from the trackbacks that its giving the right wing blogosphere plenty of oxygen (that is sarcasm, before anyone sticks me, guts me and skewers me on a spit roast).
Of course it would be rubbish for the LP to try and censor its members online. It’s terribly unnecessary and counterproductive because those who are actually members (and are not just serial politics junkies) would probably think twice about the kind of information they put out there about the Party.
Nope. That was a turn of phrase that perhaps made it sound more like gossip than fact but it is fact.
I can also assure you that I don’t air the party’s laundry like this without good reason.
“I’ll just stick to pointing out the fact that the Labour Party membership is the lowest it has been in the history of the party and that to try to introduce such a proscriptive and draconian policy would only encourage that number to sink even lower.”
Or just push more of the left over to the Green Party (even Labour party members might vote Green with the party vote and Labour for their local electorate), mainly due to the fears over Labour being weak towards National come 2014. Either way will still be voting Green, as their environment and education policy is more promising that Labours at the moment.
Considering that my electorate MP is Grant Fucking Robertson, I’ll vote for the Green candidate with my electorate vote even if they stand a stale Christmas pudding, the embalmed corpse of Leonid Brezhnev, the second law of thermodynamics or a greyish shade of brown. They’re all less dreary and toxic and show less bad faith.
I’ll certainly be voting Mana or Green or in some other strategic way to keep Labour’s vote low. It’s worth the risk to hope a Left coalition can still be formed but with the minimum of power needed for that coalition going to Labour. A powerful Labour coalition partner would be in many ways worse than a National government. At least another term of National may create just the tiniest flicker of hope that it just may be possible for the Left to begin thinking that maybe, just maybe, they need to start talking about whether it could be time, perhaps soon, for them to look at the viability of whether or not they should get their fucking act together.
As a life-long Labour supporter……..me too. No way can I support a party of betrayers, insipid little whip-masters with over-inflated egos, and a number of others who’ve come to hold some sort of sense of entitlement. There’s an entire extended family and group of friends that comes with the same committment.
Shearer is no Clarke, and even IF Clarke were still around, she’d have to have ditched the 3rd Way/4th Reich bullshit. And for all those that harp on about how we should get in behind and effect change from within – how long do you propose that should take? How long before those that have hijacked a party’s principles and who live out-of-touch and with a sense of entitlement come to realise? Too long so far I reckon – especially when there are alternatives.
I gave them till the end of year to get real and wake up – hasn’t happened and it isn’t going to.
The thing I object to most I spose is that the Labour Party has no moral right to the label.
They’re obviously going to have to learn the hard way.
All of this makes me think of an oldie but a goodie:
“Your majesty, the peasants are revolting!”
“Yes, I know.”
Except that there’s a real element of panic obvious.
I’m thinking of going with another party. If one cannot participate as a party member on social media websites, then what is the point? The members are the backbone, are they not, or should be. Sometimes wanted, sometimes not?
I know a few people including myself that think – should join the labour party and up the support. But then I think of all the times I have been involved in environmental, political, feminist groups over the last 30 years and think oh god – there will be the GDA’s (grim dour activists with no sense of humour) present, there will be boring meetings where it is run in a way that the GDAs put you off saying anything because :they “know everything” and there will be also very little fun in it because how can we possibly have fun when the issues are so serious
If the labour party wants more support, there has to be change in the approach and people who have been involved for ages need to look at themselves and think ” how inclusive am I” .
I know not everyone is like that, but it only takes a couple of GDAs who are, to put people off and it puts me off.
Also I try and read Red Alert but find it really patronising and they are trying to be so “clever” with their words that I think WTF are they talking about and why would I want to go to meetings when it is all pontification blah blah blah.
At least here I can read the stuff, understand it and there are always further posts to clarify what I don’t get or links.
Yeah, Red Alert is quite patronising, agree with that. I notice some MPs never post on it, yet others often do.
Damn, forgot to press ‘reply’ earlier.
Anyway, testing this to see if it works:
http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-08122012/comment-page-1/#comment-560097
Yes that pretty much sums up some of my experiences. In regard to your:
“… don’t see activism as a social outlet, or expect “fun”, and I think I understand that the left is diversity by definition, and solidarity in diversity is much harder work than I imagine a National Party fundraising dinner would be. Fighting oppression will never be a smooth ride, and so in that respect I do understand and share your trepidation at rejoining the fray”
This reminds me of a parent who withdrew their child from a teacher friend of mine’s class because they were having too much fun – and how can you learn when you are having fun?
Imagine having fun and being an activist at the same time – they are around – musicians, clowns, artists, etc
I think you mis interpret my meaning of fun and humour – and just had such a good laugh at the thought of me attending national dinner parties and will have a great time telling my friends so thanks for that. I also think that while being involved in groups is not solely as a social outlet, I have made plenty of life long friends who share the same values and connect, so I think for some people it is their “social outlet” and why not?
Anyway I actually do quite a lot of work and still have elements of fun and humour while I am doing it, even when the work is serious.There are alot of community initiatives out there where people are gathering together with music, kai etc and having some fun while also workshoping ideas that are important to them. No endless boring speakers, no people coming to the meeting saying these are our ideas and then feeling threatened if you have other ideas.
I think we do need to have some creative ideas around how to get people involved and I am sure there are plenty out there and plenty of people who have great ideas, they are just not going to go along to “meetings” and share them. Sure still have meetings for those who love them but lets get some other ideas, that’s all.
…. I have made plenty of life long friends who share the same values and connect, so I think for some people it is their “social outlet” and why not?
Quite true. I do hope it will be different this time, I’d really like to enjoy myself, I shouldn’t be pessimistically preparing for the worst. It would be great if the established groups did some soul-searching about being inclusive, and open and welcoming.
Imagine having fun and being an activist at the same time – they are around – musicians, clowns, artists, etc
I remember all that, and the helium balloons, when the Green Party used to visit the university, and feeling jealous that our lot was so boring by comparison. But frankly, we couldn’t have pulled off a carnival atmosphere if we’d tried.
Hi, I’m going to reply to this in ‘open mike’ because I can’t really see the relevance of your comment to this thread.
(I wish I could put a link to ‘open mike’ to make things smoother but I haven’t figured out how to do that yet).
If you click on the date/time link of any post (I like to open it as a new tab or window) then then you can cut and paste teh URL of whatever you have opened.
Perhaps in solidaratory we all keep the CV thing going as a minor part of your nic….and hide within our ranks the real CV and if one falls bleeding from the knives then as ROB states rise the army of CVers. Beware the circling radish wolves….red on the outside but white streaked with blue on the inside.