Written By:
lprent - Date published:
7:52 am, July 11th, 2014 - 59 comments
Categories: Economy -
Tags: ICT
This morning Labour will be announcing it’s Digital Economic Upgrade (ICT policy). “Streamed live to the world” at 8am at the link above.
As a dedicated member of the programming fraternity and often aghast at the stupidity of the how the government treats the digital community, I want to hear this.
So I will live blog some of this as it goes through.
7:53 First get coffee.
7:59 Pity that Labour don’t allow us to embed this thing properly.
8:04 First problem. How do I watch this damn thing?
8:09 Clare Curran announced a few days ago that they’d be doing a Chief Technology Officer (CTO) for the government. That is a good idea because at present government sucks when it comes to having any strategies at all.
8:11 Started on link above.
8:14 Getting seasick. Buy a tripod!!!
8:18 Open source the government
8:19 Exporting the intellectual property. Currently about $7 billion exports. 3rd largest sector in NZ, and fastest growing. It also has jobs.
8:21 Questions.. TPP etc.
8:25 Just got sent this
ICT policy factsheet (pdf)
ICT policy document Jul14 (pdf)
8:29 Usual strange questions for 8am in the morning. Reading the doc.
8:35 The fact sheet image
8:41 A lot of this is designed to
8:52 Finished. Labour – please please do not put that video up for watching. Rest of the document looks good.
I’ll come back to the rest of this announcement in comments. It looks like there is a separate announcement to be made on connectivity.
The server will be getting hardware changes this evening starting at 10pm NZDT.
The site will be off line for some hours.
Picture is jerking all over and the sound almost inaudible. Not a good start …
Wtf! Why has someone picked up the camera again?
Whoever is responsible for the camera ‘work’? Utterly unwatchable.
On the positive side Cunliffe was on the ball.
Open Source the govt?
Holy lol.
Have fun with that.
There is no particular problem with it. I flipped from microsoft to linux and open source in 2006 for all of my needs. About the only thing that there aren’t that many good alternatives for are games.
You see companies advertising themselves as microsoft shops these days when job hunting employees. That is because it isn’t where most ICT people want to get employed these days. They want the mix of systems because that is where they see their jobs going to.
You cross-platform most code these days as a matter of course. Certainly to windows versions, macs, iOS, and android at a minimum.
Swapping a desktop os is one thing. Swapping an entire platform is another.
Cross platform code isn’t even a problem.
Where needed, these systems already run on apache/php/ruby whatever anyway.
Which is the only reason why I still have Windows at all. And now that Steam is porting all the games that they have to Linux it won’t be long before I won’t even need it for that.
Ok. this is a bloody good idea. A bit like the incubator systems but a lot earlier in the development chain. Most incubator projects are after funding gets found and the steps to commercialism is started. Same idea as their “X Prizes”
All small change, but useful for getting ideas to a useable form.
You do know this already exists?
Depends what you mean. I know of stuff that is not in a particularly useful form and targeted at existing companies already selling.
I know of things to get people into incubators run by universities.
I don’t know of anything that starts at the very start of an idea.
There is a Wellington ICT incubator already. I forget the details of it.
You also have grow Wellington and angel investors, both of which I’ve been involved with.
Wellington ICT incubator is for start ups. Grow Wellington provides support to both, but mainly businesses that are already going.
http://www.wellingtonnz.com/business/startups/incubators/
Yes these incubators exist but all too often the “angels” have no idea what a tech start up actually need (dairy farmers and property developers with a bit of cash who think its fashionable to get into the game) or they’re just looking to leverage a good idea into the next big IPO within 18 months, with limited interest in developing the technology or the organisation organically.
+100% CV and worse, the so called ‘angels’ develop only to the point the IP ownership can be re-located to an offshore entity prior to sale to avoid tax on sale of IP which inevitably is to another offshore entity … we lose out twice. after tax payers have funded early development, tax avoided on sale and all jobs go offshore. barmy.
They are broken up in to many people with many backgrounds. Quite a few within IT.
“Up to $10,000” seems a little low for kickstarting dev costs
It’s very low. Two developer/owners paying themselves minimum wage for 2.5 months, working out of their bedrooms and providing for all other business expenses themselves.
Well on the plus side, OpenSourcing government will lead to lots of IT jobs.
Yeah, and a lot of extra expense.
Most big govt departments have just merged and moved to new DCs on new platforms. It’s cost millions and it’s finally done.
Hey, let’s go rip all that apart.
Smart.
Not our fault the NACTs are IT illiterate
They aren’t. After years of every department having their own systems, they are now all running on common systems.
It all works very well.
Doesn’t have to rip anything apart. But it does have major implications for development of the new IRD system.
I’m sure there are plenty of Open Source tax packages that let you run your own country of 4 million people, while meeting all NZ privacy standards and complex calculations around benefits, sources of income, ACC tax, fringe benefits, imputation credits, excise tax, GST etc, while also being flexible enough to add in new taxes like CGT and carbon tax.
Alternatively: I’m sure there are many private organisations that would love to employ dozens/hundreds of developers to implement such a system, and then make it open source and give it away for free.
If it was that simple, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
IRD has something like 2000 VMs (Virtual machines).
This sort of stuff needs to be specifically designed and designed in a way to scale over cloud infrastructure.
Off the shelf software stops working once you get to the 50-100 user mark without heavy modifications to the code.
I’d love to see the evidence for “they are now all running on common systems” – because that’s certainly not my experience in the Government IT sector.
The back end is mostly running at Revera on Microsoft Server 2008/2012, Exchange 2013/Lync etc.
What’s presented to the staff is a different story.
Good as a gesture to Internet Party.
But:
no position on broadband rollout. This is a key National government initiative, being done across cities now. Cunliffe as previous Minister should understand its importance both to cities and to this governments credibility in economic development.
no position on second broadband cable. Oddly, mentioned electricity costs, but not broadband costs.
no position on aggregating Crown agency demand for broadband services, or for the use of Crown agencies in stimulating r & d. Eg common platform development for government departments, sourcing at least part of a job locally, using locals in some of the monumental cockups that Departments have made in the last decade, with all of the squillions that could have been circulated locally
no position in the role of Universities, course structures, innovation hubs, etcetera
Ie in general in the more direct role the whole of the public sector can do for digital industry development
no tilt at school curriculum, which to me could offer English or code as a binary core subject
I think I’ll stop there.
I don’t believe this is an empty gesture, but it looks an almost non-instrumental gesture. I want a Labour governments that understands and operates the full range of policy levers available to it.
There is a later ICT/communications announcement mentioned somewhere in this one.
I’d guess that will cover it.
There is a later ICT/communications announcement mentioned somewhere in this one.
I’d guess that will cover it.
Oh, FFS, the last Labour led government started the broadband upgrade process. National then gutted it, as they always do, and told people that they were getting a better deal.
Tend to agree with you on the rest. Labour are still looking to the private sector to kickstart innovation using tax credits rather than having the government do it – just like the US government does. Their policies will fail just like privatisation failed and for the same reason – the private sector doesn’t do anything unless the government’s paying them. Time to cut out the private sector and just do it as part of government. It’ll be cheaper and more innovative.
+100
why do we need private sector companies – especially foreign ones – cutting corners on NZ infrastructure and shipping tax payer monies offshore.
So this fibre roll out National promised us 2 elections ago …. I’m still waiting ….
I guess the problem is that Chorus isn’t gouging us enough yet
Damn good idea. Basically ICT people coming out of university or even tech are trained monkeys. Useful only with someone competent wasted leaning over their shoulder and training them how to not screw up. That is why it is so damn hard to get hired straight out of a course.
Same with the apprenticeship system
It is an awfully big ask for kids going into ICT to spend years training before they find out if they have any real aptitude in a real world environment for computer systems. In my experience most of the people who went through compsci degrees in my various stints at university, probably less than a quarter actually made it their careers after a decade.
The continuous learning to stay in the ICT game is a real drag for most people. It is about 15-30% of your time per year (more earlier, easier later). A lot easier with the net and google. Still a lot of continuous study and testing. If you don’t do it then you rapidly become unemployable.
Doing a mix of work and training is a better idea. Even better is that the ones who stay obsessed past the games and into work, can then find out if they want to invest time in a university or tech degree.
Plus that is going to help a lot on the CV and for getting hired.
They shouldn’t need extensive training for it. An A+ course then go seek and entry level job. I’ve put heaps of them through my business.
I’ve never though quals for IT are useful unless you are going in to specialised areas. If so, I’d do these after you gain employment as most employers will pay for them.
Go and ask any recruiter.
They don’t have too many problems placing people who have been through uni and did well. They have a hell of a problem placing anyone else. So that is about 5% of the people trained.
They also have employers complaining that they can’t find anyone to employ,while at the same time there are a hell of glut of trained but no experience unemployable people.
First question that damn near every employer asks me is if I am willing to “mentor”. I am but I put some pretty strict limits on it – and snap like a bastard if people violate those limits. It takes nearly 6 months to get someone with a compsci degree up to the point that they aren’t a pest to anyone competent. Apparently I’m a rarity for allowing employers to foist the kids on me.
In actual fact I usually find that the compsci A+ employees are the most painful. They screw up because they think they know how to do things and they’re usually too arrogant to listen before screwing up.
The problem is, people doing IT for the money, not because they like IT. This is the big sticking point. The people I employ, all have a passion for IT. Since they have this passion, they generally have quite a good, solid foundation to begin with, as they tend to tinker in their own time.
Yes, you have to mentor people, that’s just life. Better that, than have them pick up bad traits.
Most old timers give your argument though, so it’s not surprising.
Yes this is a major point.
And it flows through to the single criticism I have of Labour’s one pager above. It comes through in phrases like “transforming a big idea into successful business”. Also another common phrasing you sometimes here “x $B of technology exports.” Which is all great, but as a perspective starts to limit the value of ICT to what clever technology endeavours can do to make capitalists money.
NZ companies are already getting involved in developing technology for the security and surveillance industrial complex for instance. Which is of course now a multi-billion dollar industry. (Funded by tax payers dollars from around the world) Oh we as capitalists wouldn’t want to miss out on all these opportunities, would we?
Where is our values statement or political position around this as a nation.
Why don’t we have a vision of exporting clean, high purity, organic food, but also technology which has 100% privacy and security built into it, and no back doors?
IMO real creativity in technology, and particularly in the open source community but also in examples of how the likes of Apple started up, doesn’t come from trying to create the next Angry Birds or FaceBook billion dollar IPO. It comes from a passion for making life and society better.
So my question – where is the space to create valuable, innovative technology – and to make it available for free. Or to create self sustaining co-operative structures of technology development so that professionals do not have to keep going cap in hand to capitalists to do the kind of work and solve the kinds of problems that they are interested in.
If Labour says it supports Open Source everything, then that capability and opportunity must be there.
“Why don’t we have a vision of exporting clean, high purity, organic food, but also technology which has 100% privacy and security built into it, and no back doors?”
We already do. The company just won a huge international award. Can’t remember the name though.
Apple is a bad example… they almost went bust years ago, and basically got bailed out by Microsoft. Microsoft kept them alive as kind of an internal joke.
The reason Apple took off in recent times is they ditched their 2000 products and started to focus on just a few.
Microsoft is probably a better example. But there’s heaps. WordPress being one. It’s filling a void with an innovative, easy to use product.
That’s the society that we got from the neo-liberal revolution of the 4th Labour government. Every government since has maintained and strengthened that attitude. It is cause celebrè for this government as ideologised in the 90 day fire at will act.
Actually I think infused might have meant the certification called A+, not someone who got A+ marks in university.
http://certification.comptia.org/getCertified/certifications/a.aspx
A+ is about the equivalent of 6th form though so not really sure if that’s truly what he meant, because 6th formers typically aren’t worth hiring…
I did. Sorry if that was not clear.
I’d hire someone with the passion and A+ over someone with a uni degree who’s just doing it for the money.
I had one of those people. Clear difference in mind sets.
Damn good idea. Basically ICT people coming out of university or even tech are trained monkeys. Useful only with someone competent wasted leaning over their shoulder and training them how to not screw up. That is why it is so damn hard to get hired straight out of a course.
Same with the apprenticeship system
It is an awfully big ask for kids going into ICT to spend years training before they find out if they have any real aptitude in a real world environment for computer systems. In my experience most of the people who went through compsci degrees in my various stints at university, probably less than a quarter actually made it their careers after a decade.
The continuous learning to stay in the ICT game is a real drag for most people. It is about 15-30% of your time per year (more earlier, easier later). A lot easier with the net and google. Still a lot of continuous study and testing. If you don’t do it then you rapidly become unemployable.
Doing a mix of work and training is a better idea. Even better is that the ones who stay obsessed past the games and into work, can then find out if they want to invest time in a university or tech degree.
Plus that is going to help a lot on the CV and for getting hired.
Lynn, you will like [/sarc] Steven Joyce’s informed (?) response:
Pretty clear that Joyce knows fuckall about ICT.
The grads are just one bit. For instance I don’t think I have ever seen a university trained grad running around in a server farm. Or putting fibre into companies.
Currently we import a lot of ICT immigrants with too little real world experience, and we virtually don’t import the ones without degrees. Outsight stupid.
Lyn says that they have grads running the server farms at uni. Seems like a waste to me.
I’ve worked in this business for 35 years – 20 of them in Silicon Valley working for startups, I’ve interviewed/hired a lot of people over the years – fresh PhDs just out of Uni are possibly more difficult to use then fresh BScs – if anything there’s more ego that needs to be subsumed so you can learn to work with a team (OK I’m generalising a bit but it’s a real issue).
I think if you want to better transition CompSci students into industry I think we’d do far better if we encouraged an internship year (rather more like an Engineering degree) which gets kids working in industry for most of a year, this allows students to learn about the real world, get some realistic expectations, something on their resume, and makes it easier for companies to try people out for a bit (at work [I still contract in the US] we take on 2-3 interns every summer and on average hire one of them).
The local Polytech’s BIT degree involves a final year with a very real world project that puts them out into the community, I’ve been quite impressed with some of the students and their projects and have helped some of them working to turn their projects into real world.
I think there’s a great (long term) advantage to having a CompSci degree – this is a business where you have to reinvent yourself every 5-10 years, you need that deeper background so you can change and adapt and keep the job interesting.
What a strange time to live stream a new policy. How many people were they expecting to be watching between 8-9am on a weekday?
What serendipity that they can regard it as an alpha version. I hope they’ll live stream everything from now on, and buy a tripod.
Exactly. You should have seen the sulphurous comment I sent back.
Damn good idea. In the last decade the emphasis in NZ and most of the dollars earned in exports from ICT have shifted to two things.
Both currently ship most of their “manufacturing” offshore apart from the prototyping. Much of that will continue because of things like PCB costs as tail ends are so much lower than local, and there is so little point in running a SaaS business off local server farms for overseas because of our piss-poor cable situation.
I have worked in both situations. A lot of near development and “production” work goes offshore because we can’t find adequate local plant even for small stuff.
But there is lot of assembly work and work for the austrailasian markets that doesn’t get done here because the costs are so great for installation.
This may help.
Mana on digital
Waatea News
Te Wahanga Parakuihi Interviews Mana leader Hone Harawira, for Waatea Radio. (not time stamped.)
The only thing I have heard of this until now was on the Radio News at 10am which consisted for the most part of something along the lines of
Labour has announced that it will open a govt funded app store to allow a pathway for people to enter the app market, Labour ICT spokeswoman Claire Curran said she didn’t know how much it would cost but she was sure it wouldn’t be much
Hostile media… But if that’s what she actually said to a reporter WTF
“Claire Curran said she didn’t know how much it would cost but she was sure it wouldn’t be much”
lol?
It is actually a app store for the government to purchase software from rather than the way the reporter reported it. I guess the journo didn’t read the policy doc.
The policy doc linked to up above has values in for different parts and the extra funding required. That particular section says “Cost: Funded from within baselines”. So will come from within existing budgets by changing the means of how the government currently purchases software (ie their current systems really suck – I’ve seen it).
That makes more sense… surely Claire Curran could have said as much rather than a snappy sound bite to reinforce the Labour is profligate theme …
An interesting idea. Personally, I’d prefer a high level ($400 per week or higher) UBI and for the government to own the needed infrastructure such as fab plants that anyone can use. Then people wouldn’t need government grants to be entrepreneurial.
Need a government ICT department that actually does all that across all government departments instead of having each government department trying to do it for itself. The government is large enough to support such a department. This department would also provide the cloud services that government will need.
That’s exactly what I’ve always thought. They can even use this department to create their own systems, rather than outsourcing to overseas companies (eg NovaPay)…
Verizon look set to lose major German govt telephony/ICT contracts because of their complicity with NSA spying.
NZ is now very well known throughout the world as a FVEYEs partner.
If the country is serious about becoming a major international ICT player then the business threats and opportunities around this changed landscape need to be seriously considered.
DTB: we had a government ICT department. It was called Government Computing Services. The Bolger administration sold it off and it became EDS which folded into Unisys. We also had Health Computing Services which was sold at the same time.
The old NZPO also did some computing work prior to it getting chopped. I believe they had a service called PACNET which was an internet type service.