Anyone saying there are plenty of jobs, people are just to snobby (ie lazy) to take them, has to explain why 90,000 people suddenly got lazy between 2008 and 2009 as 80,000 jobs disappeared.
I think we have previously established that unemployment was rising sharply in the declining period of the Clark led Labour Government so it is a bit disingenuous to claim that it happened as soon as John Key took office.
However even that doesn’t detract from the fact that I haven’t seen any person on the right actually argue that the reason people are unemployed is purely down to them ALL being lazy bludgers. Perhaps someone could link to someone making this claim?
If people can’t find someone making this claim then the central idea behind this article is a straw man argument. Congratulations on creating one of those and effectively countering it. For your next trick I expect you to state that Right wingers believe up is actually down and how this too is just crazy talk.
Wrong again. I’m intrigued that a spin-tool like yourself isn’t familiar with the old tory technique of “targetting” a few “lifestyle” beneficiaries, while restricting the entitlements of a whole bunch of “worthy poor” as collateral damage. E.g. Pete George the other day.
The fact is that there aren’t enough jobs, therefore unemployment protection is necessary and not an option. And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
That post by Pete George is more supportive of my point than yours. He just stated that he knew of SOME beneficiaries who choose to be beneficiaries not that ALL beneficiaries choose to be beneficiaries. You may disagree with his position on this but it doesn’t provide evidence that right leaning people are trying to argue that the increase in unemployment is due to more people becoming lazy bludgers.
But it does support the argument that if there are no jobs out there, and that all the unemployed-centred “encourage them back into work” bullshit is just bullshit. If the government wants to cut the number of beneficiaries, bullying the unemployed will have less of a result than, oh, investing in education and infrastructure, buying locally, and not laying off public service staff.
Ensuring a viable productive economy and a flexible labour market is probably the best for reducing unemployment on a long term sustainable basis. You may disagree, which is your right, but other people do think this. They are the ones in power at the moment. Next time the left is in power they might attempt something along the lines you are suggesting. I choose to ignore the rest of your emotive laden post.
We can’t get emotive about under-producing economic units.
What possible basis can you have for believing that the government is really trying to solve unemployment? Just how much are you going to blame on the GFC, when we’ve started (since, oh, 2008/9) sliding down the performance charts of the OECD?
Meanwhile, unmatured potential economic units cease to function.
Overall productivity has been consistently rising for decades not just here but world-wide, and New Zealand is still a very flexible place to be an exployer compared to the rest of the OECD. If productivity and flexibility were all it took to increase available employment opportunities, we’d be having a jobs boom already, and it would be completely unrelated to changes in governments or other economic factors. I think we can both accept that the economy is more complicated than that, and at the very least we can agree to concede that it has natural cycles, (booms and busts) and is composed of several tugs of war between employers and labour in general, and more complicated relations between consumers and retailers and industries, and the impact of available information to each party.
The fact is, average productivity (in contrast with overall productivity, which is steadily rising) is actually inversely correlated with high demand for labour, simply because as the demand for workers increases, employers have to settle for less productive employees, who they fire when demand for labour decreases. Low productivity is ironically a sign of a healthy labour market, not because productivity is bad, but because universal employment drags down productivity figures.
To reduce unemployment, circulation needs to increase. Policies that create extra employment, or otherwise equalize the distribution of wealth to some degree, increase circulation and generate demand, which in turn prompts businesses to increase supply, which in turn prompts them to hire additional employees, which prompts them to demand more services and products from other businesses, and so on. You know what doesn’t help that process at all? Employer fleibility and productivity. In fact, productivity generally decreases the need to employ additional people because all of the available work is done.
Talking about viable economics, low the high income inequality would boost both the economy and lower unemployment. Given both Labour and National inability to discuss the effects of increasing oil prices on the economy, business is left in limbo and risk adverse. National would like its voters to believe selling assets won’t harm the deficit but anyone with a clue knows that’s not true. NZ exports its skilled, its profits, and raw resources, when we should be keeping our skilled, our profits and adding value (introducing a CGT). But National are biblically sret against any tax increases unless its on the poorest, unbalanced and unfair GST rises.
National have no idea how to run an economy, one National voter on TV actually thought that pushing single mums into fruit picking and replacing desperate pacific islanders was a real reality. WTF. Just as passing economic analysis shows that is wrong, its always going to be cheaper to hire desperate foriegners froma pacific Island chain (like Australia does to NZ citizens). And more so with some pacific islanders who have no work, no other opportunities and no baby (or home to heat).
National voters know little about economics if they repeat anything a politician says without thought.
And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
Do you think no pressure at all should be put on beneficiaries to improve their edication or get work? (Labour tried to ‘encourage’ people off benefits before National started trying).
Option 3: actually give them educational and employment opportunities that will allow them to participate in society, not bully them into becoming grist for the mill.
There should be more than enough educational opportunities now shouldn’t there. Some could be done better, but anyone can get education if they want it.
Creating ’employment opportunities’ is election talk. No party actually knows how to increase employment to near nil-unemployment levels.
We have fewer lower skilled jobs due to technology and offshoring, and a far bigger proportion of the population looking for work due to women becoming ‘equal’ participants in the workforce. Has any country successfully created full employment in the last thirty years?
Do you think doubling public service employment would solve it?
There should be more than enough educational opportunities now shouldn’t there.
Should be but aren’t.
I was watching telly the other day and they had an engineering course targeted at disadvantaged youths – applicants outnumbered places by something like four or five to one.
Universities and polytechs are not exactly running out of students.
No party actually knows how to increase employment to near nil-unemployment levels.
Some do better than others. Seems to be those ones that actually foster industry, health and education, rather than speculators.
We have fewer lower skilled jobs due to technology and offshoring, and a far bigger proportion of the population looking for work due to women becoming ‘equal’ participants in the workforce. Has any country successfully created full employment in the last thirty years?
Nope, not ones that dovetail ludditism and good old fashioned sexism, anyway. Why the apostrophes around women becoming equal (more precisely, women becoming recognised as equal)?
Doubling the public service wouldn’t solve it, but culling the public sector doesn’t help.
Oh now I get it, you’re in politics because you have no understanding of other people’s lives and the real interaction between classes. Makes it pretty easy to say things like “anyone can get education”. Oh sure Pete, the world is so rational and caring and giving. Then you go on to spell out a possible solution, but can’t see it, because you’re holding so tightly to a model that strokes your control dysfunction, but doesn’t work in reality.
When’s you next banning due. I can’t believe you’re so old and so dumb, clearly you are a remorseless troll. Then again, those emails yesterday of rural types imploring Key to let them remain ignorant were quite instructive that a person can be eagerly ignorant for over 50 years. Who’s paying the bill for your eager ignorance, Pete? Unlike those collecting social security, the welfare you are taking has the opposite effect of being either social or secure. Get an education- anyone can – or hurry up and “retire”.
[lprent: Banning is something that the moderators decide. I have banned people for insistently calling for a ban. It falls under the “boring the moderators” or “wasting moderation time” categories. ]
Nobody’s asking for zero unemployment right now. I think we’d settle for policies that lowered the figures by a few percentage points this year, in addition to any natural upturn that might happen.
Doubling public service employment would certainly solve the problem, but we’d need to actually have some sort of productive program for that, because the whole point of stimulating the economy with government employment is that you still have people doing productive work for the government on top of the economic gain in general. Doubling the public service would probably be too much stimulus, I would imagine, and there’d be no way to find enough productive work for that many people. Even a twenty percent expansion would be bold start.
But in more staff-neutral terms, we could make significant headway by simply cutting out third-parties from government employment and having the government run its own temping agency, for instance, and stop engaging in this “contracting out” nonsense to get around its own employment laws. We ship an extraordinary amount of money out from the government by contracting out in areas like HR where it just doesn’t make any sense to do so, and the government could provide the services itself with better efficiency, as it wouldn’t need to make a profit.
When there was plenty of work and benefits were relatively a lot higher than they are now, very few people chose benefits.
The Prime Minister reckoned he knew all the unemployed by name.
The big number of people on benefits are there simply because the RWNJ neo-liberals stuffed our economy. They wanted a pool of unemployed to help drive wages down.
The current meanness towards beneficiaries is simple to scare all of us into accepting starvation wages and dog whistle to the unintelligent to cover NACT’s economic ineptitude. The same tactics used by another lot of Fascists in the past.
And then you quote lazy ‘myths’. I’ve had a bit of a look before, some of the detail is interesting but the questions are little more than exaggerated loaded nonsense.
1. Anyone who wants to get off welfare can get a job.
Many can and do. Obviously some can’t, for various reasons eg not enough jobs available, unemployable.
2. People on welfare commit a lot of benefit fraud, at the expense of hard-working people
Yes, some people (a small minority) do that.
3. Putting a time limit on how long people can receive welfare is a good idea
How many think that? About three?
4. People who go off on the dole go onto sickness and invalids benefits. We have to crack down on them, too.
A few do that. ‘People’ sort of implies all which is nonsense.
5. Most of the people on welfare are unmarried mothers – many of them teenagers – who have extra children so that they can get more money.
Obvious dramatic exaggeration.
6. Lots of people are on welfare for years and years, and then their children and grandchildren become welfare dependent.
Depends on what you mean by ‘lots’. Too many – yes. But a small minority.
7. Making unemployment insurance compulsory would be a good idea.
How many people think that? I don’t recall seeing it discussed.
8. People on welfare are bludging on the rest of us.
In effect a minority are, but ‘people’ is meant to sort of imply all which is nonsense.
9. Young people need welfare reform in order to teach them the value of work.
Nonsense – who thinks that? The best teachers of the value of work are parents and wider family, by example. Welfare reform may encourage or nudge some young people to find out the value of work for themselves.
10. Thank goodness the Maori Party is at the Cabinet table, to ensure the genuine needs of Maori are being met.
A political dig at the end. That’s been called a ‘myth’?
1. “Some people get off the unemployment benefit” is not the same as “anybody can get off the unemployment benefit if they try”. Some people are legitimately unemployable, some people need additional resources to become employed that they don’t have enough social resources to acquire, and some people are simply unemployed because the economy is too depressed for them to be a worthwhile bet for an employer right now. The vast majority of those people couldn’t get off the unemployment without spending more money on helping them.
And you know what? You shouldn’t have to be exceptional to get out of unemployment, you should need to be exceptional to require it, if we had a healthy society. Anything above 3% is not even arguably an exception, and ideally we should have less than 1% of the workforce drawing the benefit for more than a month at a time.
2. The minority of people who abuse benefits is so small that measures that are already in place can deal with them. We should be more concerned with the fact that it’s not possible to eat healthily on the benefit and afford accommodation at the same time.
3. Time-limiting benefits is just a more extreme version of the other sticks that the Right wants to offer beneficiaries. Sometimes it’s not a matter of sticks or carrots, sometimes you just need support to get into employment. People want to be productive, they want to feel involved, they want the things that meaningful employment (ie. not McJobs) offer, so the carrot is there intrinsically. We just need to stop dangling it from the stick over their heads and actually put it in reach.
4. So you agree we don’t need to crack down on people who go onto sickness or invalids benefits from the dole? Because as I see it they’re pretty hard to qualify for as-is and unlikely to be a point of abuse.
5. Sure, but it’s a significant portion of the complaining about benefits, too. I’m not sure you get to complain about people quoting back to you what people are actually saying- and as far as single mothers on benefits are concerned, that’s a pretty mild paraphrasing. And yes, I understand that this is getting into the foggy areas of personal experience rather than factual debate.
6. Sure, too many. But actual dependency on welfare is a symptom of a great many social problems, and it makes sense to deal with the causative factors before we actually think about increasing pressure on beneficiaries, wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t think anyone would claim that long-term beneficiaries don’t need policy to address them- the debate is about how legally mandating people to get jobs possibly helps them when we’ve already established they either can’t or won’t in their current situation, and I would argue the answer is “overall it does more harm than good.”
8. Undeniably there are a few people who do this, but the question is whether they’re worth any additional energy to deal with. I don’t think so- it’s an incredibly low return on investment to follow them up directly when you could actually look at the root causes of the need for welfare.
9. I’ve met people who think that. They’re fortunately a significant minority, but they do exist, and I get very embarassing praise from them for having found my way into being a “young professional”, (by which they mean I get paid more than minimum wage and need to wear business clothes to work, despite needing to work six days a week to save anything significant) even though they don’t know I spent multiple years dealing with a severe anxiety disorder in which I couldn’t work.
(I was supported by my parents, so I didn’t actually claim the benefit at the time- which is yet more proof that being stuck on a benefit is a symptom of lacking other resources to fall back on more than some sort of intrinsic failing)
The RWNJ’s are right. Bob Jones, for example, is on record as saying that when National forms a government, he changes his strategy to a low growth model.
There is a direct correlation between the National Party and a slower work rate in the economy. The RWNJ’s are still missing the point though – they think laziness causes the problem, but the problem is their understanding of economics is a little bit shit.
I’m not so sure you can say there is a change to the entire system just because of one example. In my opinion, what Bob Jones says should be taken with a grain of salt.
Your point is well made though Kotahi Tane Huna, people simply don’t work as hard when they’re earning less. You really do get what you pay for and if you’re a smart investor, you take your money out of the NZ economy when the Natz get into power. They’re not to be trusted.
The irony though Kotahi Tane Huna is that the likes of Bob Jones expect to make more income under a Labour led govt. Exactly the opposite of how Labour sells itself to it’s supporters…..
But sure…. lets vote in a govt that’s better for the wealthy … just pretend it’s best for the little guy and lets make the wealthy …. well wealthier….
BS Burt labour is better for everybody god with your dumb logic no wonder your a National supporter so what you’ve been saying up till now that labour is bad for wealth creatos is just a figment of your imagination.
Like gooseman you have been caught out!
Superannuation was paid to 535 300 people in the 2011 year. This is 12.75% of the population and really not very high by any stretch of the imagination.
NZ should be investing in manufacturing of products derived from its prime products, i.e. wood, wool. It is tragic that whole logs are being shipped offshore and all we need to do is get diesel for the chainsaw. Plastics and Textile imports are the largest growth items between 2005 and 2010 mostly from China. Milk powder, butter and cheese export has increased by around 80% and logs by around 33%.Except for crude oil no other area is significant in exports.
The biggest problem hidden in the figures are the number of under 25s out of work (or in “tronning”), I would hazard that over half of the under 25s have no “real” prospect of a “good” job. This is a form of inter generational theft. There is a call for the age of superannuation to rise, so the older workers have to stay longer…..which means the younger ones will have to wait longer. The thinking behind this is either warped or very self serving.
Where is the evidence that a lower retirement age has a big impact on youth unemployment? Certainly if we look at the countries in Europe with a lower age of retirement I would suggest we would tend to find that Youth unemployment rates are the same, or even higher, than those countries with a higher average age of retirement. Your argument smacks of the same logical fallacy that some conservatives use for discouraging women in the workforce.
Gos, I need very little evidence that if I add work to one age cohort (like an extra year) that work is not going to be available to another age cohort. Nothing is more obvious. And to make matters worse I have little faith that an extra years work will be available to that age cohort either.
Whether that work is “available” or able to be undertaken by another age cohort is entirely another issue. What it screams to me is that whilst there is a youth employment crisis the politicians and Treasury are focused firmly on the wrong age cohort.
Especially this sentence “Governments had tried in the past to reduce youth unemployment by enticing older workers to retire, but had failed, partly because they had to raise labor taxes to pay for the extended pensions. Employers were not amused.”
Merely pointing out that you are habitually arrogance rich, but evidence light. Although this bit made me laugh.
“I won’t deny that there would probably be some increase in unemployment as a result of extended working lives, but that would just be a temporary factor as the labor market adjusts,” Kirby said.
When
is an increase not an increase? When an economist says it’s a “temporary factor”.
When I am asked to provide evidence for anything I have made a claim for I tend to provide it or at least provide a source for it. A good example of that is that list of links to various papers on the benefits of economic freedom for economic growth. You might disagree with the links but then again I tend to disagree with your sources as well. You also missed my linking to an IMF paper on Belgium which refers to the same fallacy that is mentioned briefly in the editorial you are commenting on.
Meh – saw it. My point was that on the one hand you were criticising someone for not providing evidence when they made a claim at the same time as doing the same thing.
But then of course you missed the wee comment in your own source that essentially contradicts it and your position (albeit a “temporary” contradiction). Of course, you have a history of failing to read your own sources.
Your temporary contradiction (whatever that means) seems only to be an opinion. The IMF paper goes into greater detail about the fallacy that Bored is promoting. If you care to discuss this then go ahead. If you want to try and score petty debating points go ahead and waste your time once again.
temporary contradiction (whatever that means) seems only to be an opinion.
Gos, it was your source that brought it up.
As for the IMF report:
We subdivide the population into three subgroups: the older workers (50–65 years of age), the prime-aged workers (30–49) and the young (20–29). The precise cutoff points between these different groups are clearly of a key importance and mostly dictated by the institutional setting. Since in Belgium education is compulsory until the age of 18 and data is generally available in 5-year age brackets, we do not consider any 5-year age bracket including people subject to compulsory schooling. Therefore, the lowest age considered is the age of 20
Not entirely sure 28 counts as particularly “young” in the employment market. Especially when they skipped the firest two years of post-school employment history (for reasons that are basically odd), even though they identified school-industry mismatch as a cause of youth unemployment.
You asked for evidence supporting my claim that Bored’s comments were a fallacy. I provided that evidence. Whether you agree with the evidence or not is irrelevant to me. Bored hasn’t even bothered to counter this, just restate his position as if it is commonly accepted as a fact. It obviously isn’t as there wouldn’t be a fallacy named for it.
So now you’ll only accept criticism of sources (that you link to only upon request, and that you frequently fail to read yourself) from those people who aren’t particularly interested in getting into a semantic debate with a slippery propogandist?
slick.
Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot you’d be all to eager to crow objectionably, not to mention subsequently insisting that no evidence had been provided…
If someone posted a link to something that I disagreed with I don’t think I would state they haven’t provided any evidence. I might state something like, (if it is an opinion piece), that the evidence is not very persuassive or is flawed or that it isn’t hard evidence
Pity that reality contradicts your claims that economic freedom benefits economic growth.
The fastest growing economies have always had Government intervention, assistance and regulation. And the highest taxes!
“The idea that forcing elderly workers out of the labor market before the statutory age of
retirement would provide jobs for the unemployed young has been for a long time widely
accepted in several European countries, particularly in Belgium where indeed youth
unemployment is particularly high both in absolute and in relative terms. For most
economists and fortunately an increasing number of Belgian this view is based on the
erroneous belief in a fixed amount of work. Economists call this allegedly widespread view
the “lump of labor fallacy”.”
For once Gossy is correct
More people working grows consumption, the economy and allows more jobs. More State employment grows, not shrinks, the private sector.
Gossy has just contradicted his own previous positions, generally supporting those who think that austerity and small government are economically beneficial. The Laffer curve is also a result of the “lump of Labour, lump of capital fallacy.
State spending needs to be underpinned by the productive sector and constatly increasing it is not self sustaining over the long term. Eventually you just end up borrowing more and more to fund unproductive expenditure. You just need to look at the problems in Greece to see the outcome of this. The only solutions in this case are either debt default, inflating your way out of trouble (including devaluation of currency), or severe Governement cut backs (i.e. austerity).
By the way it is interesting to see a sort of bastardised version of Keynesian being promoted here.
Bored, having so many people under 25 out of work – these are University degree holders and NZ has only a small pool of jobs suited to that skill level. Many jobs are customer service, help desk and manual, part time and seasonal work. The pay is not going to cover living costs and paying back the student loan. Besides, one does not study for years to pick apples (not that there is something wrong with that). Many will go overseas looking for greener pastures and NZ is the poorer for it. As for the retirement age – there maybe people who want to work longer (never met any) but there are many who have to work longer as they still pay mortgage, help with grand kids or are on single income. So, all in all it looks like we are slowly becoming a very poor country.
Right on there Foreign Waka. But NACTs are unlikely to think about the country and economy in any useful, meaningful way that would bring such practical considerations to the fore for implementation.
I recently spent time with some RW. Not a book about the place, no newspapers which might spread round untidily. Lots of interest in Breakfast TV and the bright coloured mannikins that appear there giving the junk news. No RadioNZ reporting and analysis, only Coast with endlessly pleasant music and limited advertisements to provide ‘wallpaper for the ears’ as Peter Ustinov remarked about elevator music.
It’s frightening to know that so much power is held in the hands of these smug people in their cloistered ivory towers, looking with disdain on the unsatisfactory plebs below. The strugglers and the non-achievers are the labels applied to those not regarded as worthwhile human beings at all.
Why? Disappointed you didn’t find the complete works of Ayn Rand on the bedside table? I really don’t like this kind of attack because ultimately you can say exactly the same things of a lot of poor working people, the “strugglers and the non-achievers” – not always groanoing bookshelves in their homes either. Attack a person’s views, philosophy and politics if you must, but it seems a bit mean spirited to attack their taste in home entertainment.
I remember going to work in the Uni holidays of 1975 and walking down a street in Sydenham calling into every factory en route asking for work. I worked 2 days for one place before deciding that the boss was an out of control maniac, so I went next door and asked for a job cutting up meat. We worked to a Union award and there was a group bonus, the Union man and the foreman drove this mercilessly so there was no slacking. Good money was paid, but you had to earn it, and I don’t recall any slackers or absentees.
The point of the above is that when we had full employment we also had good wages, and we had very little need of welfare. And compulsory unionism meant there was some balance between employers and employees. Most importantly people were demonstrably NOT lazy. Any form of perceived bludging was frowned upon from all quarters.
Funny thing, back in the 70s the National Party maintained a narrative that described workers as lazy. They also vilified the unemployed (all 20 of them) as the cause of all of societies woes. What we have from Nact today is the same old crew with the same old line…”kill the poor”.
Certainly do…there is a lot of bullshit talked about the role of unions that does not match the reality.
A little background: organised labour (unions) originally had to accept a compromise: compulsory unionism in NZ was conditional upon acceptance of the Arbitration System. Unions referred to it as “labours leg iron”.What that meant was that unions were bound by a system that mitigated against the worst excesses of the unions (and the employers).
I don’t regard Unions as socialist bodies: they are in reality a way of grouping together to get a better deal in the way that is regularly applied by other buyers and sellers in the “market”. As a buyer of their services (I employ people) I can see the downside of not being able to screw individuals down as easily. Conversely I don’t have the cost of dealing with multiple individuals, or multiple negotiations, which as an employer save me heaps of time.
Other than your views on compulsory unionism I actually agree with your position on Trade Union’s in regard to bargaining. They can be very beneficial to employee and employer alike.
You only have to look at how shop assistants are treated daily to see why Unions are needed.
Compulsory unionism means that employers cannot single out and fire union members, for one.
As an employer I prefer my employees and myself not to pay taxes to subsidise employers who cannot pay their full costs.
AND I do not see why other employers should not have to compete on efficiency and usefulness rather than on how much they can undercut my employees wages.
Unions are as much a necessary part of capitalism as employer associations. They provide a necessary balance.
I remember reading James McNeishs book Fire Under the Ashes about Danilo Dolci and the
poor in Sicily, which was under the thrall of the Mafia which strangled business and initiatives unless it suited them and bled operating businesses dry. Conditions were not good or improvable. Danilo Dolci did a consciousness raising project with the unemployed men which gained a lot of publicity and anger.
The idea was to have an unemployment strike. The men for the time of the strike stopped being unemployed and went out to work on the roads at their own cost and time.
We don’t want to sink to those levels of desperation, and if we had politicians with real commitment to all the people, to having a vital economy and a successful, buzzing little country, we would be managing our way out of recession not creating this fly-blown mess that everyone walks around at a great distance avoiding the smells and ordure.
I remember reading a book by Danilo Dolci. I recall his manner of speaking was very matter of fact: We wanted a well. I met with this person and they agreed to supply this, then I asked these people for that, then we put it all together and it worked… and so on. Perhaps it was a translation issue, but it was like he was deconstructing and sanitising the art of politics to cut a long, dirty, story short. I came away with the impression of a man who could do the impossible, but also with strong connections to the mafia. You just couldn’t walk round Sicily at that time and do stuff and annoy people and not end up at the wrong end of someone’s Lupara. He had big friends, no doubt about it.
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I think NZ has reached the point where people have to simply take back what has been taken away or given up by stepping in and doing the things they need without any permission or recourse to authorities. The principled, charismatic, Lone Ranger has turned out to be a whore on a mule, so we’ll have to save ourselves.
To be fair to National, the global economy crashed not long after they took office and unemployment spiralled not because of their policies but as a result of the global meltdown. Thankfully New Zealand is not as heavily indebted as the European Union, strong export returns of primary products, fishing, farming and forestry have staved off the more serious implications of a fiscal meltdown as in Greece’s case.
The figures portrayed in the graph don’t reflect the true number of jobs lost in a contracted economy. Upwards of 100,000 Kiwi’s have left for Australia in the last 5 years and if that hadn’t happened the unemployment statistics would be worse and the situation grave for the economy.
I think this discussion keeps getting sidetracked.
There is an assumption in the “reforms” and a lot of this discussion that there are a large numkber of unemployed/solo parents unwilling to look for and take work. This is simply not the case.
While there is a small number of long term unemployed and a small number of long term dpb recipients who have children while on the dpb, their impact on welfare expenditure is very small.
Meanwhile it is very hard to be on an unemployment benefit and not be actively seraching for work – the system already regularly reviews beneficiaries’ status.
So – my question is why do we focus of the very few that are in position?
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
The answer is, of course, that the whole thing is a diversionary tactic. Key/Bennett know that by pretending that there is a problem with malingerers they will build support from the mostly uninformed electorate and divert attention from the real issue – that they have no answers to the lack of employment opportunities.
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
IMO it’s because the NACTs don’t want more people employed, they just don’t want to be blamed for it, the more people unemployed, the more likely a reduction in wages.
And after a couple of years on reducing employment they can force these people back to work at a lower cost to employers – in terms of money for wages and money for worker protection. It’s that simple – while we’re all outraged about blaming/or blaming the unemployed for their plight, they’re getting on with the real business of lowering employer costs.
Zetetic I can’t parse this post because
a) spelling error: should be “people are just TOO snobby“)
b) grammatically weak run-on sentence: please use punctuation when paraphrasing someone’s argument.
Your argument is undermined by lazy misuse of English.
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In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
Yesterday marked 10 years since the first electric train carried passengers in Auckland so it’s a good time to look back at it and the impact it has had. A brief history The first proposals for rail electrification in Auckland came in the 1920’s alongside the plans for earlier ...
Right now, in Aotearoa-NZ, our ‘animal spirits’ are darkening towards a winter of discontent, thanks at least partly to a chorus of negative comments and actions from the Government Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on ...
You make people evil to punish the paststuck inside a sequel with a rotating castThe following photos haven’t been generated with AI, or modified in any way. They are flesh and blood, human beings. On the left is Galatea Young, a young mum, and her daughter Fiadh who has Angelman ...
April has been a quiet month at A Phuulish Fellow. I have had an exceptionally good reading month, and a decently productive writing month – for original fiction, anyway – but not much has caught my eye that suggested a blog article. It has been vaguely frustrating, to be honest. ...
A listing of 31 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 21, 2024 thru Sat, April 27, 2024. Story of the week Anthropogenic climate change may be the ultimate shaggy dog story— but with a twist, because here ...
Hi,I spent about a year on Webworm reporting on an abusive megachurch called Arise, and it made me want to stab my eyes out with a fork.I don’t regret that reporting in 2022 and 2023 — I am proud of it — but it made me angry.Over three main stories ...
The new Victoria University Vice-Chancellor decided to have a forum at the university about free speech and academic freedom as it is obviously a topical issue, and the Government is looking at legislating some carrots or sticks for universities to uphold their obligations under the Education and Training Act. They ...
Do you remember when Melania Trump got caught out using a speech that sounded awfully like one Michelle Obama had given? Uncannily so.Well it turns out that Abraham Lincoln is to Winston Peters as Michelle was to Melania. With the ANZAC speech Uncle Winston gave at Gallipoli having much in ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
Cancelling urgently needed new Cook Strait ferries and hiking the cost of public transport for many Kiwis so that National can announce the prospect of another tunnel for Wellington is not making good choices, Labour Transport Spokesperson Tangi Utikere said. ...
A laundry list of additional costs for Tāmaki Makarau Auckland shows the Minister for the city is not delivering for the people who live there, says Labour Auckland Issues spokesperson Shanan Halbert. ...
Te Pāti Māori co-leader Rawiri Waititi, and Mema Paremata mō Tāmaki-Makaurau, Takutai Tarsh Kemp, will travel to the Gold Coast to strengthen ties with Māori in Australia next week (15-21 April). The visit, in the lead-up to the 9th Australian National Kapa haka Festival, will be an opportunity for both ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
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Yep the RWNJs seem to believe that a spontaneout outbreak of blugerism occurred when Key assumed power.
Of course it has nothing to do with the economy or the Government’s handling of the GFC.
The number of benefits includes those on superannuation and this particuar benefit will continue to increase in numbers.
Did you know that older people are ageing for a business?
[this graph is just working age benefits. but good point. zet]
Oops thanks zet
I think we have previously established that unemployment was rising sharply in the declining period of the Clark led Labour Government so it is a bit disingenuous to claim that it happened as soon as John Key took office.
However even that doesn’t detract from the fact that I haven’t seen any person on the right actually argue that the reason people are unemployed is purely down to them ALL being lazy bludgers. Perhaps someone could link to someone making this claim?
If people can’t find someone making this claim then the central idea behind this article is a straw man argument. Congratulations on creating one of those and effectively countering it. For your next trick I expect you to state that Right wingers believe up is actually down and how this too is just crazy talk.
Wrong again. I’m intrigued that a spin-tool like yourself isn’t familiar with the old tory technique of “targetting” a few “lifestyle” beneficiaries, while restricting the entitlements of a whole bunch of “worthy poor” as collateral damage. E.g. Pete George the other day.
The fact is that there aren’t enough jobs, therefore unemployment protection is necessary and not an option. And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
That post by Pete George is more supportive of my point than yours. He just stated that he knew of SOME beneficiaries who choose to be beneficiaries not that ALL beneficiaries choose to be beneficiaries. You may disagree with his position on this but it doesn’t provide evidence that right leaning people are trying to argue that the increase in unemployment is due to more people becoming lazy bludgers.
But it does support the argument that if there are no jobs out there, and that all the unemployed-centred “encourage them back into work” bullshit is just bullshit. If the government wants to cut the number of beneficiaries, bullying the unemployed will have less of a result than, oh, investing in education and infrastructure, buying locally, and not laying off public service staff.
Ensuring a viable productive economy and a flexible labour market is probably the best for reducing unemployment on a long term sustainable basis. You may disagree, which is your right, but other people do think this. They are the ones in power at the moment. Next time the left is in power they might attempt something along the lines you are suggesting. I choose to ignore the rest of your emotive laden post.
We can’t get emotive about under-producing economic units.
What possible basis can you have for believing that the government is really trying to solve unemployment? Just how much are you going to blame on the GFC, when we’ve started (since, oh, 2008/9) sliding down the performance charts of the OECD?
Meanwhile, unmatured potential economic units cease to function.
Overall productivity has been consistently rising for decades not just here but world-wide, and New Zealand is still a very flexible place to be an exployer compared to the rest of the OECD. If productivity and flexibility were all it took to increase available employment opportunities, we’d be having a jobs boom already, and it would be completely unrelated to changes in governments or other economic factors. I think we can both accept that the economy is more complicated than that, and at the very least we can agree to concede that it has natural cycles, (booms and busts) and is composed of several tugs of war between employers and labour in general, and more complicated relations between consumers and retailers and industries, and the impact of available information to each party.
The fact is, average productivity (in contrast with overall productivity, which is steadily rising) is actually inversely correlated with high demand for labour, simply because as the demand for workers increases, employers have to settle for less productive employees, who they fire when demand for labour decreases. Low productivity is ironically a sign of a healthy labour market, not because productivity is bad, but because universal employment drags down productivity figures.
To reduce unemployment, circulation needs to increase. Policies that create extra employment, or otherwise equalize the distribution of wealth to some degree, increase circulation and generate demand, which in turn prompts businesses to increase supply, which in turn prompts them to hire additional employees, which prompts them to demand more services and products from other businesses, and so on. You know what doesn’t help that process at all? Employer fleibility and productivity. In fact, productivity generally decreases the need to employ additional people because all of the available work is done.
Talking about viable economics, low the high income inequality would boost both the economy and lower unemployment. Given both Labour and National inability to discuss the effects of increasing oil prices on the economy, business is left in limbo and risk adverse. National would like its voters to believe selling assets won’t harm the deficit but anyone with a clue knows that’s not true. NZ exports its skilled, its profits, and raw resources, when we should be keeping our skilled, our profits and adding value (introducing a CGT). But National are biblically sret against any tax increases unless its on the poorest, unbalanced and unfair GST rises.
National have no idea how to run an economy, one National voter on TV actually thought that pushing single mums into fruit picking and replacing desperate pacific islanders was a real reality. WTF. Just as passing economic analysis shows that is wrong, its always going to be cheaper to hire desperate foriegners froma pacific Island chain (like Australia does to NZ citizens). And more so with some pacific islanders who have no work, no other opportunities and no baby (or home to heat).
National voters know little about economics if they repeat anything a politician says without thought.
And bullying the unemployed is pointlessly vicious.
Do you think no pressure at all should be put on beneficiaries to improve their edication or get work? (Labour tried to ‘encourage’ people off benefits before National started trying).
Should remaining on a benefit be simply a choice?
Option 3: actually give them educational and employment opportunities that will allow them to participate in society, not bully them into becoming grist for the mill.
There should be more than enough educational opportunities now shouldn’t there. Some could be done better, but anyone can get education if they want it.
Creating ’employment opportunities’ is election talk. No party actually knows how to increase employment to near nil-unemployment levels.
We have fewer lower skilled jobs due to technology and offshoring, and a far bigger proportion of the population looking for work due to women becoming ‘equal’ participants in the workforce. Has any country successfully created full employment in the last thirty years?
Do you think doubling public service employment would solve it?
Should be but aren’t.
I was watching telly the other day and they had an engineering course targeted at disadvantaged youths – applicants outnumbered places by something like four or five to one.
Universities and polytechs are not exactly running out of students.
Some do better than others. Seems to be those ones that actually foster industry, health and education, rather than speculators.
Nope, not ones that dovetail ludditism and good old fashioned sexism, anyway. Why the apostrophes around women becoming equal (more precisely, women becoming recognised as equal)?
Doubling the public service wouldn’t solve it, but culling the public sector doesn’t help.
Oh now I get it, you’re in politics because you have no understanding of other people’s lives and the real interaction between classes. Makes it pretty easy to say things like “anyone can get education”. Oh sure Pete, the world is so rational and caring and giving. Then you go on to spell out a possible solution, but can’t see it, because you’re holding so tightly to a model that strokes your control dysfunction, but doesn’t work in reality.
When’s you next banning due. I can’t believe you’re so old and so dumb, clearly you are a remorseless troll. Then again, those emails yesterday of rural types imploring Key to let them remain ignorant were quite instructive that a person can be eagerly ignorant for over 50 years. Who’s paying the bill for your eager ignorance, Pete? Unlike those collecting social security, the welfare you are taking has the opposite effect of being either social or secure. Get an education- anyone can – or hurry up and “retire”.
[lprent: Banning is something that the moderators decide. I have banned people for insistently calling for a ban. It falls under the “boring the moderators” or “wasting moderation time” categories. ]
It didn’t take long for the petty personal attacks to return. I’d hoped to come back trying to add to debates, to address ideas and not attack people.
Some seem happy and willing to discuss differences. Will that be swamped by futile provoke-to-ban moronity? I guess if that’s whats wanted here.
Nobody’s asking for zero unemployment right now. I think we’d settle for policies that lowered the figures by a few percentage points this year, in addition to any natural upturn that might happen.
Doubling public service employment would certainly solve the problem, but we’d need to actually have some sort of productive program for that, because the whole point of stimulating the economy with government employment is that you still have people doing productive work for the government on top of the economic gain in general. Doubling the public service would probably be too much stimulus, I would imagine, and there’d be no way to find enough productive work for that many people. Even a twenty percent expansion would be bold start.
But in more staff-neutral terms, we could make significant headway by simply cutting out third-parties from government employment and having the government run its own temping agency, for instance, and stop engaging in this “contracting out” nonsense to get around its own employment laws. We ship an extraordinary amount of money out from the government by contracting out in areas like HR where it just doesn’t make any sense to do so, and the government could provide the services itself with better efficiency, as it wouldn’t need to make a profit.
+1
When it was a choice.
When there was plenty of work and benefits were relatively a lot higher than they are now, very few people chose benefits.
The Prime Minister reckoned he knew all the unemployed by name.
The big number of people on benefits are there simply because the RWNJ neo-liberals stuffed our economy. They wanted a pool of unemployed to help drive wages down.
The current meanness towards beneficiaries is simple to scare all of us into accepting starvation wages and dog whistle to the unintelligent to cover NACT’s economic ineptitude. The same tactics used by another lot of Fascists in the past.
http://werewolf.co.nz/2011/02/ten-myths-about-welfare/
Pete George is a prime example of “lazy thinking”.
And then you quote lazy ‘myths’. I’ve had a bit of a look before, some of the detail is interesting but the questions are little more than exaggerated loaded nonsense.
1. Anyone who wants to get off welfare can get a job.
Many can and do. Obviously some can’t, for various reasons eg not enough jobs available, unemployable.
2. People on welfare commit a lot of benefit fraud, at the expense of hard-working people
Yes, some people (a small minority) do that.
3. Putting a time limit on how long people can receive welfare is a good idea
How many think that? About three?
4. People who go off on the dole go onto sickness and invalids benefits. We have to crack down on them, too.
A few do that. ‘People’ sort of implies all which is nonsense.
5. Most of the people on welfare are unmarried mothers – many of them teenagers – who have extra children so that they can get more money.
Obvious dramatic exaggeration.
6. Lots of people are on welfare for years and years, and then their children and grandchildren become welfare dependent.
Depends on what you mean by ‘lots’. Too many – yes. But a small minority.
7. Making unemployment insurance compulsory would be a good idea.
How many people think that? I don’t recall seeing it discussed.
8. People on welfare are bludging on the rest of us.
In effect a minority are, but ‘people’ is meant to sort of imply all which is nonsense.
9. Young people need welfare reform in order to teach them the value of work.
Nonsense – who thinks that? The best teachers of the value of work are parents and wider family, by example. Welfare reform may encourage or nudge some young people to find out the value of work for themselves.
10. Thank goodness the Maori Party is at the Cabinet table, to ensure the genuine needs of Maori are being met.
A political dig at the end. That’s been called a ‘myth’?
PG. You know the article was debunking common RWNJ myths about welfare, don’t you?
Or did you even read it.
I take back what I said about how good our education system is. It has obviously failed some people.
1. “Some people get off the unemployment benefit” is not the same as “anybody can get off the unemployment benefit if they try”. Some people are legitimately unemployable, some people need additional resources to become employed that they don’t have enough social resources to acquire, and some people are simply unemployed because the economy is too depressed for them to be a worthwhile bet for an employer right now. The vast majority of those people couldn’t get off the unemployment without spending more money on helping them.
And you know what? You shouldn’t have to be exceptional to get out of unemployment, you should need to be exceptional to require it, if we had a healthy society. Anything above 3% is not even arguably an exception, and ideally we should have less than 1% of the workforce drawing the benefit for more than a month at a time.
2. The minority of people who abuse benefits is so small that measures that are already in place can deal with them. We should be more concerned with the fact that it’s not possible to eat healthily on the benefit and afford accommodation at the same time.
3. Time-limiting benefits is just a more extreme version of the other sticks that the Right wants to offer beneficiaries. Sometimes it’s not a matter of sticks or carrots, sometimes you just need support to get into employment. People want to be productive, they want to feel involved, they want the things that meaningful employment (ie. not McJobs) offer, so the carrot is there intrinsically. We just need to stop dangling it from the stick over their heads and actually put it in reach.
4. So you agree we don’t need to crack down on people who go onto sickness or invalids benefits from the dole? Because as I see it they’re pretty hard to qualify for as-is and unlikely to be a point of abuse.
5. Sure, but it’s a significant portion of the complaining about benefits, too. I’m not sure you get to complain about people quoting back to you what people are actually saying- and as far as single mothers on benefits are concerned, that’s a pretty mild paraphrasing. And yes, I understand that this is getting into the foggy areas of personal experience rather than factual debate.
6. Sure, too many. But actual dependency on welfare is a symptom of a great many social problems, and it makes sense to deal with the causative factors before we actually think about increasing pressure on beneficiaries, wouldn’t you agree?
I don’t think anyone would claim that long-term beneficiaries don’t need policy to address them- the debate is about how legally mandating people to get jobs possibly helps them when we’ve already established they either can’t or won’t in their current situation, and I would argue the answer is “overall it does more harm than good.”
8. Undeniably there are a few people who do this, but the question is whether they’re worth any additional energy to deal with. I don’t think so- it’s an incredibly low return on investment to follow them up directly when you could actually look at the root causes of the need for welfare.
9. I’ve met people who think that. They’re fortunately a significant minority, but they do exist, and I get very embarassing praise from them for having found my way into being a “young professional”, (by which they mean I get paid more than minimum wage and need to wear business clothes to work, despite needing to work six days a week to save anything significant) even though they don’t know I spent multiple years dealing with a severe anxiety disorder in which I couldn’t work.
(I was supported by my parents, so I didn’t actually claim the benefit at the time- which is yet more proof that being stuck on a benefit is a symptom of lacking other resources to fall back on more than some sort of intrinsic failing)
more lies goose
The RWNJ’s are right. Bob Jones, for example, is on record as saying that when National forms a government, he changes his strategy to a low growth model.
There is a direct correlation between the National Party and a slower work rate in the economy. The RWNJ’s are still missing the point though – they think laziness causes the problem, but the problem is their understanding of economics is a little bit shit.
I’m not so sure you can say there is a change to the entire system just because of one example. In my opinion, what Bob Jones says should be taken with a grain of salt.
Your point is well made though Kotahi Tane Huna, people simply don’t work as hard when they’re earning less. You really do get what you pay for and if you’re a smart investor, you take your money out of the NZ economy when the Natz get into power. They’re not to be trusted.
The irony though Kotahi Tane Huna is that the likes of Bob Jones expect to make more income under a Labour led govt. Exactly the opposite of how Labour sells itself to it’s supporters…..
But sure…. lets vote in a govt that’s better for the wealthy … just pretend it’s best for the little guy and lets make the wealthy …. well wealthier….
I think this Global meltdown doesn’t mean a low growth environment is the same thing as a low profit environment.
BS Burt labour is better for everybody god with your dumb logic no wonder your a National supporter so what you’ve been saying up till now that labour is bad for wealth creatos is just a figment of your imagination.
Like gooseman you have been caught out!
Superannuation was paid to 535 300 people in the 2011 year. This is 12.75% of the population and really not very high by any stretch of the imagination.
NZ should be investing in manufacturing of products derived from its prime products, i.e. wood, wool. It is tragic that whole logs are being shipped offshore and all we need to do is get diesel for the chainsaw. Plastics and Textile imports are the largest growth items between 2005 and 2010 mostly from China. Milk powder, butter and cheese export has increased by around 80% and logs by around 33%.Except for crude oil no other area is significant in exports.
The biggest problem hidden in the figures are the number of under 25s out of work (or in “tronning”), I would hazard that over half of the under 25s have no “real” prospect of a “good” job. This is a form of inter generational theft. There is a call for the age of superannuation to rise, so the older workers have to stay longer…..which means the younger ones will have to wait longer. The thinking behind this is either warped or very self serving.
Where is the evidence that a lower retirement age has a big impact on youth unemployment? Certainly if we look at the countries in Europe with a lower age of retirement I would suggest we would tend to find that Youth unemployment rates are the same, or even higher, than those countries with a higher average age of retirement. Your argument smacks of the same logical fallacy that some conservatives use for discouraging women in the workforce.
Gos, I need very little evidence that if I add work to one age cohort (like an extra year) that work is not going to be available to another age cohort. Nothing is more obvious. And to make matters worse I have little faith that an extra years work will be available to that age cohort either.
Whether that work is “available” or able to be undertaken by another age cohort is entirely another issue. What it screams to me is that whilst there is a youth employment crisis the politicians and Treasury are focused firmly on the wrong age cohort.
I just love Goose giving yet another call for “evidence” followed by him suggesting an alternative theory but supplying no evidence for it.
This is a good discussion on it
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2011/12/12/2003520527
Especially this sentence “Governments had tried in the past to reduce youth unemployment by enticing older workers to retire, but had failed, partly because they had to raise labor taxes to pay for the extended pensions. Employers were not amused.”
LoL. 🙂
Merely pointing out that you are habitually arrogance rich, but evidence light. Although this bit made me laugh.
When
is an increase not an increase? When an economist says it’s a “temporary factor”.
When I am asked to provide evidence for anything I have made a claim for I tend to provide it or at least provide a source for it. A good example of that is that list of links to various papers on the benefits of economic freedom for economic growth. You might disagree with the links but then again I tend to disagree with your sources as well. You also missed my linking to an IMF paper on Belgium which refers to the same fallacy that is mentioned briefly in the editorial you are commenting on.
Meh – saw it. My point was that on the one hand you were criticising someone for not providing evidence when they made a claim at the same time as doing the same thing.
But then of course you missed the wee comment in your own source that essentially contradicts it and your position (albeit a “temporary” contradiction). Of course, you have a history of failing to read your own sources.
Your temporary contradiction (whatever that means) seems only to be an opinion. The IMF paper goes into greater detail about the fallacy that Bored is promoting. If you care to discuss this then go ahead. If you want to try and score petty debating points go ahead and waste your time once again.
Gos, it was your source that brought it up.
As for the IMF report:
Not entirely sure 28 counts as particularly “young” in the employment market. Especially when they skipped the firest two years of post-school employment history (for reasons that are basically odd), even though they identified school-industry mismatch as a cause of youth unemployment.
Sigh.
You asked for evidence supporting my claim that Bored’s comments were a fallacy. I provided that evidence. Whether you agree with the evidence or not is irrelevant to me. Bored hasn’t even bothered to counter this, just restate his position as if it is commonly accepted as a fact. It obviously isn’t as there wouldn’t be a fallacy named for it.
So now you’ll only accept criticism of sources (that you link to only upon request, and that you frequently fail to read yourself) from those people who aren’t particularly interested in getting into a semantic debate with a slippery propogandist?
slick.
Of course, if the shoe were on the other foot you’d be all to eager to crow objectionably, not to mention subsequently insisting that no evidence had been provided…
McCock,
If someone posted a link to something that I disagreed with I don’t think I would state they haven’t provided any evidence. I might state something like, (if it is an opinion piece), that the evidence is not very persuassive or is flawed or that it isn’t hard evidence
And then a day or so later it becomes no relevant evidence whatsoever…
Pity that reality contradicts your claims that economic freedom benefits economic growth.
The fastest growing economies have always had Government intervention, assistance and regulation. And the highest taxes!
Not according to the number of links I provided a few days ago.
Like the one that claims Freidmanite economics and Pinochet were good for Chile?
Here’s a paper that is discussing the link in Belgium (in which the participation rates for elderly people in the workforce has been declining).
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/wp/2008/wp0830.pdf
Please note the following passage
“The idea that forcing elderly workers out of the labor market before the statutory age of
retirement would provide jobs for the unemployed young has been for a long time widely
accepted in several European countries, particularly in Belgium where indeed youth
unemployment is particularly high both in absolute and in relative terms. For most
economists and fortunately an increasing number of Belgian this view is based on the
erroneous belief in a fixed amount of work. Economists call this allegedly widespread view
the “lump of labor fallacy”.”
Is that evidence enough for you McFlock?
For once Gossy is correct
More people working grows consumption, the economy and allows more jobs. More State employment grows, not shrinks, the private sector.
Gossy has just contradicted his own previous positions, generally supporting those who think that austerity and small government are economically beneficial. The Laffer curve is also a result of the “lump of Labour, lump of capital fallacy.
State spending needs to be underpinned by the productive sector and constatly increasing it is not self sustaining over the long term. Eventually you just end up borrowing more and more to fund unproductive expenditure. You just need to look at the problems in Greece to see the outcome of this. The only solutions in this case are either debt default, inflating your way out of trouble (including devaluation of currency), or severe Governement cut backs (i.e. austerity).
By the way it is interesting to see a sort of bastardised version of Keynesian being promoted here.
Are you still trying to pretend that the State sector is not productive Gossy.
I thought we already had this discussion.
Greece was a lot more complicated than you admit, and very little to do with Government deficits as RWNJ’s try to claim.
Being tied to the Euro and German currency had a lot to do with it. Greece’s currency should have devalued.
Keynes has been proved right, and Freidman wrong, many times now. http://kjt-kt.blogspot.co.nz/2011/03/voodoo-economics.html
This is a good article on the subject. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10789734
How is borrowing to give more money to bankers, and the wealthy to spend on Hawaii holidays, working, Gossy.
See my links. In short your thinking has a name. It is called the “lump of labour fallacy”.
It must be nice to know your line of thinking has it’s own particular fallacy.
Bored, having so many people under 25 out of work – these are University degree holders and NZ has only a small pool of jobs suited to that skill level. Many jobs are customer service, help desk and manual, part time and seasonal work. The pay is not going to cover living costs and paying back the student loan. Besides, one does not study for years to pick apples (not that there is something wrong with that). Many will go overseas looking for greener pastures and NZ is the poorer for it. As for the retirement age – there maybe people who want to work longer (never met any) but there are many who have to work longer as they still pay mortgage, help with grand kids or are on single income. So, all in all it looks like we are slowly becoming a very poor country.
Right on there Foreign Waka. But NACTs are unlikely to think about the country and economy in any useful, meaningful way that would bring such practical considerations to the fore for implementation.
I recently spent time with some RW. Not a book about the place, no newspapers which might spread round untidily. Lots of interest in Breakfast TV and the bright coloured mannikins that appear there giving the junk news. No RadioNZ reporting and analysis, only Coast with endlessly pleasant music and limited advertisements to provide ‘wallpaper for the ears’ as Peter Ustinov remarked about elevator music.
It’s frightening to know that so much power is held in the hands of these smug people in their cloistered ivory towers, looking with disdain on the unsatisfactory plebs below. The strugglers and the non-achievers are the labels applied to those not regarded as worthwhile human beings at all.
Why? Disappointed you didn’t find the complete works of Ayn Rand on the bedside table? I really don’t like this kind of attack because ultimately you can say exactly the same things of a lot of poor working people, the “strugglers and the non-achievers” – not always groanoing bookshelves in their homes either. Attack a person’s views, philosophy and politics if you must, but it seems a bit mean spirited to attack their taste in home entertainment.
I remember going to work in the Uni holidays of 1975 and walking down a street in Sydenham calling into every factory en route asking for work. I worked 2 days for one place before deciding that the boss was an out of control maniac, so I went next door and asked for a job cutting up meat. We worked to a Union award and there was a group bonus, the Union man and the foreman drove this mercilessly so there was no slacking. Good money was paid, but you had to earn it, and I don’t recall any slackers or absentees.
The point of the above is that when we had full employment we also had good wages, and we had very little need of welfare. And compulsory unionism meant there was some balance between employers and employees. Most importantly people were demonstrably NOT lazy. Any form of perceived bludging was frowned upon from all quarters.
Funny thing, back in the 70s the National Party maintained a narrative that described workers as lazy. They also vilified the unemployed (all 20 of them) as the cause of all of societies woes. What we have from Nact today is the same old crew with the same old line…”kill the poor”.
So do you support compulsory unionism on a similar level to what was in existence in your time in 1975?
Certainly do…there is a lot of bullshit talked about the role of unions that does not match the reality.
A little background: organised labour (unions) originally had to accept a compromise: compulsory unionism in NZ was conditional upon acceptance of the Arbitration System. Unions referred to it as “labours leg iron”.What that meant was that unions were bound by a system that mitigated against the worst excesses of the unions (and the employers).
I don’t regard Unions as socialist bodies: they are in reality a way of grouping together to get a better deal in the way that is regularly applied by other buyers and sellers in the “market”. As a buyer of their services (I employ people) I can see the downside of not being able to screw individuals down as easily. Conversely I don’t have the cost of dealing with multiple individuals, or multiple negotiations, which as an employer save me heaps of time.
Other than your views on compulsory unionism I actually agree with your position on Trade Union’s in regard to bargaining. They can be very beneficial to employee and employer alike.
I do.
And am writing an article soon as to why.
You only have to look at how shop assistants are treated daily to see why Unions are needed.
Compulsory unionism means that employers cannot single out and fire union members, for one.
As an employer I prefer my employees and myself not to pay taxes to subsidise employers who cannot pay their full costs.
AND I do not see why other employers should not have to compete on efficiency and usefulness rather than on how much they can undercut my employees wages.
Unions are as much a necessary part of capitalism as employer associations. They provide a necessary balance.
I remember reading James McNeishs book Fire Under the Ashes about Danilo Dolci and the
poor in Sicily, which was under the thrall of the Mafia which strangled business and initiatives unless it suited them and bled operating businesses dry. Conditions were not good or improvable. Danilo Dolci did a consciousness raising project with the unemployed men which gained a lot of publicity and anger.
The idea was to have an unemployment strike. The men for the time of the strike stopped being unemployed and went out to work on the roads at their own cost and time.
We don’t want to sink to those levels of desperation, and if we had politicians with real commitment to all the people, to having a vital economy and a successful, buzzing little country, we would be managing our way out of recession not creating this fly-blown mess that everyone walks around at a great distance avoiding the smells and ordure.
I remember reading a book by Danilo Dolci. I recall his manner of speaking was very matter of fact: We wanted a well. I met with this person and they agreed to supply this, then I asked these people for that, then we put it all together and it worked… and so on. Perhaps it was a translation issue, but it was like he was deconstructing and sanitising the art of politics to cut a long, dirty, story short. I came away with the impression of a man who could do the impossible, but also with strong connections to the mafia. You just couldn’t walk round Sicily at that time and do stuff and annoy people and not end up at the wrong end of someone’s Lupara. He had big friends, no doubt about it.
Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, I think NZ has reached the point where people have to simply take back what has been taken away or given up by stepping in and doing the things they need without any permission or recourse to authorities. The principled, charismatic, Lone Ranger has turned out to be a whore on a mule, so we’ll have to save ourselves.
What do the numbers on the left and right of the graph represent?
Is it working population and numbers on the benifit?
Dohl….lhs & rhs urgh
Zet looks to me like it should read “… lazy between 2008 and 2010Q4“
To be fair to National, the global economy crashed not long after they took office and unemployment spiralled not because of their policies but as a result of the global meltdown. Thankfully New Zealand is not as heavily indebted as the European Union, strong export returns of primary products, fishing, farming and forestry have staved off the more serious implications of a fiscal meltdown as in Greece’s case.
The figures portrayed in the graph don’t reflect the true number of jobs lost in a contracted economy. Upwards of 100,000 Kiwi’s have left for Australia in the last 5 years and if that hadn’t happened the unemployment statistics would be worse and the situation grave for the economy.
I think this discussion keeps getting sidetracked.
There is an assumption in the “reforms” and a lot of this discussion that there are a large numkber of unemployed/solo parents unwilling to look for and take work. This is simply not the case.
While there is a small number of long term unemployed and a small number of long term dpb recipients who have children while on the dpb, their impact on welfare expenditure is very small.
Meanwhile it is very hard to be on an unemployment benefit and not be actively seraching for work – the system already regularly reviews beneficiaries’ status.
So – my question is why do we focus of the very few that are in position?
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
The answer is, of course, that the whole thing is a diversionary tactic. Key/Bennett know that by pretending that there is a problem with malingerers they will build support from the mostly uninformed electorate and divert attention from the real issue – that they have no answers to the lack of employment opportunities.
Why isn’t the “reform” focused on assisting the vast majority who do want to work and are not sponging off the system?
IMO it’s because the NACTs don’t want more people employed, they just don’t want to be blamed for it, the more people unemployed, the more likely a reduction in wages.
And after a couple of years on reducing employment they can force these people back to work at a lower cost to employers – in terms of money for wages and money for worker protection. It’s that simple – while we’re all outraged about blaming/or blaming the unemployed for their plight, they’re getting on with the real business of lowering employer costs.
It is a diversionary tactic that has been used often, successfully.
Focus the hate of the ignorant on another group. So they do not see who are really causing the problems and taking the wealth.
Fraud cops call it the “bait and switch”.
The disgusting thing is that those who do the dog whistling, know better.
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
Zetetic I can’t parse this post because
a) spelling error: should be “people are just TOO snobby“)
b) grammatically weak run-on sentence: please use punctuation when paraphrasing someone’s argument.
Your argument is undermined by lazy misuse of English.
You’re not at Auckland Grammar now, Dr Ropata!