Level 3 again … be kind

Written By: - Date published: 10:16 am, February 28th, 2021 - 136 comments
Categories: covid-19, health - Tags:

Auckland is back into level three lockdown.  The check points around the city have again been put in place and big events, including the round the bays run have been cancelled.

The caution is understandable.  The latest two cases, a son and his mother, were potentially exposed to the UK variant B117 thorough a family member who was a casual contact of the Papatoetoe student.  This shows how dangerous the virus is and why the cautious approach is the right thing to do.

There has been some social media blow back, and pointed words from the Prime Minister, against the young man for going to a gym after having had his covid test.  From Jason Walls at the Herald:

Aucklanders are back in lockdown for a full week and the rest of New Zealand is at level 2 after a person with Covid-19 visited public locations while symptomatic.

The new case – ‘Case M’ – is a 21-year-old student who attends the Manukau Institute of Technology (MIT) and is the older brother of a Papatoetoe High School student. The man, who also works at Kerry Logistics (Oceania) Limited, went to MIT for three days and to the gym twice – including once after taking a Covid test – when he should have been isolating at home.

I get people’s anger.  There is no sign as yet if further transmission has occurred but human beings are spectacularly capable of doing the odd stupid thing.

There are reports that the virus is the UK variant which suggests that the infections are part of the Papatoetoe High School cluster.

The principal, Vaughan Couillault, has done an outstanding job of managing the school and has shown a level of compassion that we all need right now.

From Crystal Wu at Newshub:

Couillault says we shouldn’t judge others unless we’ve walked in their shoes.

“You don’t know their story, you don’t know what it’s like to be a person unless you’ve walked in their shoes.

“We don’t know whether the teenagers have to go to work because they’re the only income-earners in the family, we don’t know if there’s any other truma that the family’s experience – we don’t know any of that stuff.

“So we need to pull back from those positions of judgement and be far more understanding and supportive.”

Keep scanning and washing your hands.  And look after each other.

136 comments on “Level 3 again … be kind ”

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  1. Anne 1
    28 February 2021 at 10:41 am

    Efeso Collins, Auckland City Councillor and long time Q&A panelist made some important points about the situation in South Auckland and I paraphrase:

    He pointed out that a majority of Sth. Aucklanders do not have English as their first language. He said Health authorities desperately need to acquire and train translators to visit these people because many of them don't understand what is required of them.

    He went on to say many in the Sth Auckland community are vulnerable to conspiracy theories and won't come forward because they don't believe in Covid and they are anti-vaccinations. He stressed the urgency of getting to these people and steering them to the reality of the situation.

    It was a brief but compelling interview conducted off-site so not sure it will come up online but will link to it if it appears.

    • Muttonbird 1.1
      28 February 2021 at 11:08 am

      I saw the headline yesterday and was going to post that article in response to yesterday's news.

      Thing is, when the same happened in August we were told it's racist to treat certain communities different from others by requiring them to enter mandatory isolation. This criticism came about because on hat occasion people were reported coming and going from the house of a family which was supposed to be self isolating.

      Then there was the Mt Roskill Church debacle and illegal gathering at funerals. In those cases it was because people either didn't know the rules or wilfully ignored them. Same thing here and it shows the message isn't getting through.

      Balancing the hard enforcement approach is the risk of driving Covid infected people underground.

      Local community leaders and activists appear to be asking the health system both to butt out and for extra support. They are clearly not able to do it on their own because some people aren't listening.

      If it's not dealt with the same thing will happen again and again. Not killer blows on their own but they mount up, and soon our great response will be for nothing with regard to both health and the economy.

      • Anne 1.1.1
        28 February 2021 at 11:58 am

        … there was the Mt Roskill Church debacle and illegal gathering at funerals. In those cases it was because people either didn't know the rules or wilfully ignored them. Same thing here and it shows the message isn't getting through.

        If Elfeso Collins is to to be believed (and his advocacy is highly regarded) then a large part of the problem is still the language barrier and the fact some of them are being fed conspiratorial lies.

        So, there is an urgent need to overcome these problems by contracting interpreters to help get the message through and to make a concerted effort to overcome the misinformation being spread among them.

        Together with a hard enforcement approach (when it is applicable) is inevitable because there have been too many cases now to ignore it.

    • weka 1.2
      28 February 2021 at 12:13 pm

      where did you see/hear the interview Anne?

      • Anne 1.2.1
        28 February 2021 at 2:42 pm

        It was the final segment of this morning's TV1 Q&A. You might be able to pick it up on Facebook but I don't do Facebook.

        It will appear online eventually but don't have the time to look at present.

    • Sacha 1.3
      28 February 2021 at 6:59 pm

      Efeso Collins was advocating for local language-specific networks to be supported to communicate with the communities who already trust them, not central agencies hiring translators (which they already do).

      Impressively clear interview I thought (relevant part is from about 4m of 7m clip): https://www.tvnz.co.nz/shows/q-and-a/clips/quite-a-level-of-frustration-in-south-auckland-as-city-returns-to-alert-level-3-councillor

  2. Andre 2
    28 February 2021 at 10:53 am

    Further to the point about the possibility of the man going to work after being asked to self-isolate; what are we doing financially for those we are asking to self-isolate and forego their income for that period?

    All I've seen is a link to where people can apply for support.

    Seems to me it should be a highly publicised policy that those people asked to self-isolate will get their income replaced by the government, no ifs, buts, or maybes. Along with whatever support their employer needs in the case of a worker in a critical role being asked to self-isolate.

    A few people rorting a policy like this would be a very small price to pay compared to the huge costs across the rest of society when a new lockdown is needed.

    • Muttonbird 2.1
      28 February 2021 at 11:12 am

      As always, MSD is an outward-facing, inscrutable granite monolith. So designed to minimise the probability of people applying for support.

      Employers should be made to educate staff on the importance of isolating and not to worry about their pay if they are sick or have to get tested.

      They of course won't do this because employers don't trust staff, don't want to be closed, and it's all too hard.

      • barry 2.1.1
        28 February 2021 at 11:43 am

        The employers should be publicising it internally. The workers shouldn't have to go looking for support.

        In any case, it is counterproductive to be punishing people for partial compliance. The fact that he got tested and passed on the information about where he had been is already very helpful. If he were to be punished for going some place, then he is less likely to tell the tracers about it. If the cost of testing positive is $1000 fine then people won't get tested.

        And don't get me started on all the Aucklanders from other suburbs who have relocated to their holiday houses (potentially taking the virus with them). It is not just the poor kids from South Auckland that don't completely follow the rules.

      • weka 2.1.2
        28 February 2021 at 12:14 pm

        this is the test for Labour this year. Those that think the vaccine will save us are happy to muck on through. Those, like me, that believe the situation is complex and ongoing, want those systems sorted out now.

        • Muttonbird 2.1.2.1
          28 February 2021 at 12:31 pm

          Yes. This was an issue in August and it doesn't seems to have been resolved. If not now, when?

          • Incognito 2.1.2.1.1
            28 February 2021 at 12:48 pm

            How can this be a major issue? We have been testing here in NZ for over a year now. Even when somehow this information is not shared at the time of actual testing, it is common sense to await the result before continuing with BAU, I’d have thought. Use a traffic light system if you like:

            Red=stay home, isolate & wait, and get re-tested

            Green=go to work and live your life in good health and stay safe & well

            Orange=get tested, stay home & wait, etc.

            Do we also need to be told by health officials, the PM, and public servants, et cetera, to wash our hands after going to the loo and brushing our teeth before going to bed?

            • Muttonbird 2.1.2.1.1.1
              28 February 2021 at 12:54 pm

              It should be apparent but some people are exceptionally stupid. These are the ones who wreck everything for the rest. They need it spelled out with wall to wall coverage. That is civic responsibility and where to get financial help.

              What's being done so far isn't enough.

              A project like this is a marketing/graphics/campaign designer's dream.

              • Incognito …
                28 February 2021 at 1:31 pm

                Oh, I have been exceptionally stupid in my life, more than once.

                Perhaps the issue here with the latest community case was complacency because of ‘familiarity’, i.e. not properly judging the importance and urgency of some actions despite the abundance of information.

                An interview might shed some light on this before we (they) decide to radically overhaul the current system and cast everyone into MIQ for 28 days.

                • Muttonbird …
                  28 February 2021 at 1:41 pm

                  One thing to do would be to change the messaging so that to be asked to isolate and doing so is something to be proud of, incentivise it. And to be asked to isolate and not doing so is something to be ashamed of.

                  Certainly 'case M' is getting a boat-load of the latter.

                  Right now it feels like to be asked to isolate is a pain and/or you are somehow dirty.

                  • Peter chch …
                    28 February 2021 at 3:17 pm

                    Or more effectively, like China, criminalise it. But I guess as always we use the racism of low expectations to make excuses.

                    • Muttonbird …
                      28 February 2021 at 3:28 pm

                      I can't think of anything about the justice system in China which New Zealand should be considering.

            • Treetop 2.1.2.1.1.2
              28 February 2021 at 2:50 pm

              What about?

              If you need a Covid-19 advocate one will be supplied to you. The advocates role would be invaluable as an advocate works alongside a person through a process and not against them.

              • Incognito …
                28 February 2021 at 2:59 pm

                Ok, you seem to saying that some people need a nanny Covid-19 advocate to tell them to stay home and wait until they have been given the all-clear and a negative test result?

                • Treetop …
                  28 February 2021 at 3:25 pm

                  No. You are saying it and not me.

                  Have you heard of being supported in a situation to navigate it when requested?

                  • Incognito …
                    28 February 2021 at 3:38 pm

                    Ok, major misunderstanding here.

                    I strongly advocate people making simple decisions for and by themselves without (the need for) being nannied or mollycoddled.

                    To be told, know, and follow waiting at home until a negative test result is received is hardly equivalent to ‘navigating a complex and confusing system’ for which one would need a support person.

                    If you know that you need to be tested, have symptoms, can get yourself to the GP for a test, et cetera, you should also know that you must stay home until the negative result comes in.

                    • Treetop …
                      28 February 2021 at 4:14 pm

                      It does come through in your comments how you strongly advocate people making their own decisions. I see that you give clarification for simple decision making.

                      A good advocate does not make the decision or even influence it, they give the information required.

                      The 21 year old may have intended to not go to work but could not access the information on being supported financially. He may have understood that he had to isolate until the test result was known. As for going to the gym he might have thought he was ok as no one at the gym had become unwell since his previous visit.

                    • Incognito []
                      28 February 2021 at 4:25 pm

                      Now you’re conflating advocate and communicator. I am not in charge of giving contacts their information package and explaining it to them, MoH is.

                      A good communicator knows their target audience and packages the information in such a way that it has the desired impact.

                      When you conduct a poll or survey or a referendum for that matter, you and the questions have to be neutral and impartial.

                      OTOH, when you are a health official combatting a pandemic you have a certain outcome in mind. The message/messaging needs to reflect this.

                    • Treetop []
                      28 February 2021 at 5:26 pm

                      Giving out the correct information and communicating it to the recipient are equally important.

                      Do I understand the information to do what is required or if required?

                    • Incognito []
                      28 February 2021 at 5:39 pm

                      Yes

            • Poission 2.1.2.1.1.3
              28 February 2021 at 2:52 pm

              Do we also need to be told by health officials, the PM, and public servants, et cetera, to wash our hands after going to the loo and brushing our teeth before going to bed?

              Disaster preparedness is worst in ..

              younger New Zealanders, those who are not homeowners, those who speak English as a second language, Auckland residents, and those who live in larger households.

              https://www.civildefence.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/public-education/report-disaster-preparedness-survey-en-dec20.pdf

              • Incognito …
                28 February 2021 at 3:11 pm

                Ta

                That narrows it down considerably wink

                There’s an awful lot to take in but this was good to read:

                Māori have very similar levels of preparedness and knowledge to all New Zealanders.

            • weka 2.1.2.1.1.4
              28 February 2021 at 4:08 pm

              Do we also need to be told by health officials, the PM, and public servants, et cetera, to wash our hands after going to the loo and brushing our teeth before going to bed?

              No, because most of us were socialised into this as children. Covid is different.

              I also think that people following closely are vastly overestimating how much people who aren't following closely are taking in or even being exposed to.

              • Incognito …
                28 February 2021 at 4:12 pm

                Yes, I get that much about Covid is complex and confusing for many; it confuses me too. However, this case was all but complicated and confusing; he should have stayed at home until the negative test result was received. Not hard, not difficult, no need for a support person or translator, as simple & basic as wiping your bottom and washing your hands afterwards 🙂

                • Poission …
                  28 February 2021 at 4:15 pm

                  As he had been through MIQ in late December he would have been well briefed on continuing CV protocols.

                • Anne …
                  28 February 2021 at 6:54 pm

                  Actually this case is a good example of… why I do not agree with lowering the voting age to 16. Nor did I agree with the lowering of the drinking age to 18 when it was a topic still under discussion.

                  Those who advocate for these things are often the ones who gain by them either financially or some other way. They fail to take into account that a large proportion of 16 to 20 year olds have brains which are not fully mature until they are 25.

                  The corollary to that would suggest that no-one should be allowed to… vote , drink or be trusted in a pandemic situation until they are 25.wink

                  • Incognito …
                    28 February 2021 at 10:19 pm

                    I hear you. However, I believe in giving young people agency and responsibility as long as it goes hand in hand with good education & coaching, cultural preparedness, and social safety nets in place 😉 Not only do we need to trust others, we should also enable people to trust themselves.

                  • KJT …
                    1 March 2021 at 9:40 pm

                    Most of covidiots I've run across are my age or older, unfortunately, not youngsters!

              • Incognito …
                28 February 2021 at 4:17 pm

                MoH and Government messaging around Covid needs to be timely, accurate and correct but also be understood by everyone. This may result in aiming the messages to the lowest denominator, whatever that means. However, this may result in many others switching off and blocking the messages altogether. It sounds simple to get it right but it isn’t.

                • McFlock …
                  28 February 2021 at 5:58 pm

                  Besides the entire second-language comms, alienated from healthcare system, and can't afford to miss a rostered shift issues affecting rational decision making, the "lowest common denominator" includes young adults, many of whom have essentially zero ability to think ahead.

                  As well as Audi-drivers fleeing to their bach when they might already be infected.

                  Every time there is a contact, there is a non-zero probability that the contact will have a brain-fade. There is only so much that the best messaging in the world can do.

                  This time we had a bad roll of the dice. It happens.

                  • Incognito …
                    28 February 2021 at 6:06 pm

                    Yes, all true. The system is under stress and fatigue will set in too and cracks will appear. Prevention is better than cure and that applies to lockdowns as well. There’s no cure for human stupidity but there are ways to mitigate it and clear and effective messaging is one of those ways, IMHO.

                    • McFlock …
                      28 February 2021 at 6:30 pm

                      I mean, that sounds all well and good, but then you work a small town with a university and you have to call an ambulance because a 20yo brained himself by failing to competently jump on the bonnet of a car out of impulse and something like this occurs on a weekly basis… there's a pretty steep drop off in the effectiveness of messaging once you get past 90% of folk.

                      Sure, good questions to ask – what advice was he given, was it in a manner he could understand, was consideration made for how he might deal with difficulities this causes.

                      But it's a bit like vaccine efficacy: there will always be a percentage of people who don't think ahead. Someone who thinks they're self-isolating if they throw a party at their flat instead of going out. Someone who doesn't think to change their routine.

                    • Incognito []
                      28 February 2021 at 10:12 pm

                      Again, all true. So, what do we do about it? More ambulances? It is always hardest to reach the last 10% as you say. Should we even try or use our resources better elsewhere?

                    • weka …
                      28 February 2021 at 11:30 pm

                      flashbacks to the Queenstown backpacker parties in lockdown.

                    • McFlock …
                      28 February 2021 at 11:31 pm

                      Basically, just accept we're going to always need ambulances to clean up moments of non-clarity.

                      Sometimes it'll be bad luck, sometimes silliness. Sometimes it gets to a level or a case that shows what you could be doing better.

                      The bigger problem isn't that a few people might or might not have had brain fades. The bigger problem is that the holiday home crowd now have their go-bags ready and the Audi with a full tank, so if someone says "Level 3 in 6 hours" they can get the kids and be out of town in two. Because the wealthy fleeing plague cities and taking the disease into the country centres is a tried-and-true tactic for epidemics to flourish.

                      It's almost at the stage where the cops will have to shut the roads before the announcement is made.

                  • weka …
                    28 February 2021 at 6:21 pm

                    I'm less worried about MoH and Govt messaging than what people are being told and given when they get a test. And sorry Incog, but I do think some people will need support to do what is required. We can talk about what people should do, but we also have to talk about why people aren't doing what is needed, and assumption that people are slack or selfish aren't going to increase the chances of people doing the right thing.

                    • Incognito …
                      28 February 2021 at 10:07 pm

                      No worries. I seem to give people more credit than they deserve, strangely enough. Indeed, some but not all people are slack or selfish or make genuine mistakes with huge consequences. I keep coming back to effective communication and education 🙂

                    • weka …
                      28 February 2021 at 11:31 pm

                      to which end, I wish we had a more coherent and on point MSM. Some of it does really well, it's the big players who are letting the side down.

    • Foreign Waka 2.2
      1 March 2021 at 7:07 am

      Barry – A few people rorting will not do anywhere near as much damage as i.e. Harvey Norman making more profit than before the pandemic and not returning the subsidy. Now there is a rort if here ever was one. Any payment should go to the people having suddenly no income. Because it is precisely the normal taxpaying population paying back the billions. User pay should be going both ways.

      https://channellife.co.nz/story/harvey-norman-nz-financial-results-exposed

      • greywarshark 2.2.1
        1 March 2021 at 4:05 pm

        Incognito you are the voice of fresh air – a mixed metaphor I know. Thank you for trying to keep us kind even though we know that things are being done wrong, or not at all. It's how to be firm and insist, understanding the problems of the people you are communicating with – that's the important bit. And perhaps have a call centre with translators who will explain clearly and understandably. It would help if people wanting tests could book by phone, be given an address just for them, and only have to wait about 20 minutes, not hours in a queue. How do they go to the loo, the adults and the children? And does anyone go down the queue with water for those with cups, and little sannies. Who is being caring about the South Auckland people in these small ways? (Reading what Populuxe 1 says, someone may have come forward but it must be available to all not just one’s own.)

        About not turning nasty. I complained to the authorities about TDB the time that the church members had persisted on meeting at the start of the Covid lockdowns. Bradbury had a derogatory post about it, and I felt just as he said. But he went over the top – he chose an image showing a tall guy standing pointing a gun in front of him. I thought that was a disgraceful incitement to violence, but my complaint got passed down the line and ultimately it was judged as not too serious and nothing was to be done. (Also it was close to election date and would have disrupted the run-up to that important event.) It is hard for the authorities to control this sort of 'free speech' or dodgy behaviour.

        Those who want to keep the peace and others likewise, won't go hard out on the culprits. Many have very hard lives, where they are on the edge, maybe struggling with depression. Ask for better response from the authorities is the way I think. Someone was rung three times unsuccessfully, but they should have been visited, and tracked down. Perhaps a few nights in an isolation unit would be the appropriate threat.

  3. Populuxe1 3
    28 February 2021 at 11:53 am

    Actually I think that's selling South Auckland short. Marae have been looking after their communities, the Sikhs have been doing food parcels for months, the Pacific leaders forum are pushing testing and vaccines, and in general people are cooperating.
    Assuming the messaging isn't getting through or is being ignored is condescending. If it wasn't being taken on board, things would be a hell of a lot worse. A lot of the people most at risk are airport workers and they know the score. These are isolated examples of doing the wrong thing in a community – sort of like the mass 10pm range rover exodus to the batches of Coromandel and Omaha that probably won't get anywhere near the attention.

    • Muttonbird 3.1
      28 February 2021 at 12:35 pm

      No-one is arguing white flight to Coromandel isn't totally wrong but I'd still say the stay home messaging has to get through to everyone. Community leaders and the MoH having done well still haven't done enough, and proof of that is this failure.

      • Incognito 3.1.1
        28 February 2021 at 12:57 pm

        This case was a 21-year old student at MIT, which means there is no language barrier although there may be socio-cultural (and financial?) factors or circumstances that contributed to this brain implosion. Going to the gym straight after your test has nothing to do with earning income or going to work unless he was a personal trainer or something, which he was not, AFAIK.

        • Muttonbird 3.1.1.1
          28 February 2021 at 1:25 pm

          South Auckland is both the most exposed to Covid-19 because lots of people work at the border, and the most vulnerable to Covid-19 because of health and housing issues.

          If there is difficulty ensuring everyone is on board and compliant because of language, socio-cultural, and financial factors then more support needs to be targeted there.

          • Incognito 3.1.1.1.1
            28 February 2021 at 2:44 pm

            Agreed. I think Government has been relying too much on a simple basic messaging & communication strategy of ‘one-size-fits-all’, e.g. provide the main message in English and then one has to click for a translation. It would indeed be more effective if they were to tailor their messaging and not just in language but also tone and culture. I shouldn’t have to tell the PM how to suck egg.

    • georgecom 3.2
      28 February 2021 at 12:36 pm

      a few more thoughts to add. Yes language and culture an conspiracy theories are factors. And yes when South Auckland leaders of whatever persuasion educate people about covid19 they are doing a good job.

      That said, South Auckland businesses may close for good due to this lock down, south auckland people may lose their jobs due to this lock down. South Auckland people have a real interest in doing the right things. When you looked at the tv coverage of people getting covid tests, many non pakeha faces there. people doing the right thing, let down by a few doing the wrong thing.

      ps can you replace the scarecrow picture with an updated one please saying something along the lines of “if told to self isolate, damn well do the right thing and stay at home”

  4. weka 4
    28 February 2021 at 12:16 pm

    A few comments on twitter this morning about people being tested for covid and not being told as part of the testing to self isolate when they leave the clinic. I'm guessing there is inconsistency in what information is being provided, but telling people to self-isolate and how they can do that (including financially) seems like a baseline for containment. Otoh, clinics and medical people are under the same stresses as everyone else, so I see this as something that needs to be improved over time. We're here for the long haul.

    • Incognito 4.1
      28 February 2021 at 12:20 pm

      As I just said (https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-28-02-2021/#comment-1781125), it does depend on the type of contact these individuals are; not everyone is required to self-isolate for 14 days. However, everybody is supposed to stay home until negative test result is received.

      • weka 4.1.1
        28 February 2021 at 6:22 pm

        what's the difference between self-isolating until a negative result and staying home until a negative result?

        • Treetop 4.1.1.1
          28 February 2021 at 7:46 pm

          No difference apart from the classification of contact. Which to me is unreliable.

          Too simple to not have a 14 day isolation for every contact with a case.

          This is the case in MIQ, you could be a potential case over a 14 day period.

          • weka 4.1.1.1.1
            28 February 2021 at 9:13 pm

            right, so people who are awaiting test results should be being told to self-isolate (and all that entails) until they get cleared. It appears that sometimes people are not being told this. This strikes me as a problem if it is in fact a requirement to SI.

            • Incognito 4.1.1.1.1.1
              28 February 2021 at 10:02 pm

              People awaiting a test result should be staying at home until they receive a negative test result. It seems odd that some are not told this but even so, common sense should have a say in this too, IMHO. You don’t put a gun to your head and pull the trigger unless you have checked that it is not loaded.

          • Incognito 4.1.1.1.2
            28 February 2021 at 9:57 pm

            No difference apart from the classification of contact. Which to me is unreliable.

            In what way is it unreliable?

            Too simple to not have a 14 day isolation for every contact with a case.

            Why should Casual Contacts, for example, have to isolate for 14 days?

            • Treetop 4.1.1.1.2.1
              1 March 2021 at 9:29 am

              It is unreliable because a person can have more than one classification. They can start off as a casual contact, go to a casual plus contact and then become a close contact.

              Not in the year class but sits on the bus with a pupil who is a close contact.

              As well when it comes to the day 5 test being negative it is not targeting the whole family as a bubble for a casual contact. 5 day testing can miss a case. Some confusion over who has to isolate with the classifications.

              When it comes to a casual contact isolating for 14 days the UK strain has a long tail, contact tracing becomes harder to do with bigger exposure numbers, a school, a supermarket, a tertiary institute.

              The 3 day level 3 lockdown was to give time to contact trace and find the source.

              The current level 3 lockdown is done because of not initially knowing the source of contact for case M and the time case M was infectious and the bigger numbers who could have been exposed since last Tuesday with other cases and in the case of M a few days earlier.

              • Treetop …
                1 March 2021 at 10:03 am

                I forgot the close plus contact.

                The different levels of lockdown seem to be explained well.

                See the differculty I am having with the contact classifications I could not even write them all down. Start with your classification of contact, add another layer of testing and another layer of isolation for yourself.

                Then apply the contact, testing and isolation to a family member.

                It would be easier to have bullet points for the classifications of contact, testing and isolation and what is required at each stage.

                And the links you supplied are Guidance and issues with not being able to obtain information on Heathline.

              • Incognito …
                1 March 2021 at 11:09 pm

                In my books, “unreliable” means that it cannot be relied upon and I think this is not the case at all. The system is flexible and it should be. It works as intended.

                Cases do not self-categorise, MoH officials do this after they conduct an interview. As was the problem with the latest cases, sometimes people are not forthcoming with information possibly because they forget.

                Identified cases are supposed to receive an information pack.

                When new information comes to light, officials act on it, which sometimes means re-categorisation of existing cases.

                A similar thing happens with so-called “historic cases”.

                It doesn’t really matter that all these different things confuse you as long as you follow the rules that apply to you personally. If you do that, the system will be as reliable as it can be.

        • Incognito 4.1.1.2
          28 February 2021 at 9:38 pm

          There are differences in stringency and limiting vs. avoiding contact with others and contaminating/infecting others. The other difference is, of course, the duration, which is 14 days for self-isolation or quarantine vs. an unspecified but usually much shorter time while waiting for a test result.

          If you really want to know the differences, check out these two PDFs, for example:

          https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/guidance-for-casual-plus-contacts-25feb21.pdf

          https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/guidance-for-close-plus-contacts-factsheet-26feb21.pdf

          HTH

  5. woodart 5
    28 February 2021 at 12:43 pm

    yeah, cause covid has just happened and nobody has heard of it…oh wait, its been around for a YEAR. sorry folks, after a YEAR, ignorance is NO excuse. the language excuse has worn very thin, after a YEAR, surely every person in the country, no matter what language they use, should be well aware of the danger and the things NOT to do. bollocks about having to go to work because of being the only earner, is yet another copout. where were these sole money earners last year, when the whole country spent a month in lockdown, living in a cave with a bag over their heads? sometimes the victim does need blaming, not handholding.

    • weka 5.1
      28 February 2021 at 6:24 pm

      I don't know what the L3 rules are, I'd have to look them up if we went into L3 here.

      • Sanctuary 5.1.1
        1 March 2021 at 7:15 am

        Well look them up then, it isn't hard to find. Problem solved. Next question?

        This lockdown is a deja vu of all the others. Political axes are ground. The most emotionally damaged people from it appear to be the media and their ecosystem of moaning minnies from various lobby groups who inhabit a world of continual chaos, conflict, anger and panic. The performatively perplexed get another chance to strut the social media stage to pontificate their puzzled perplexity to anyone who'll listen. And every amateur public health expert gets to outline in forensic detail exactly the prescription for success.

        It is all a bit tedious to the 90% of us who understand the rules, know what to do, and get on with it and do it.

  6. Peter 6
    28 February 2021 at 12:44 pm

    David Seymour's onto it. Again.

    The one who wants us to be free of Government, who wants Government to treat us as responsible adults and the outbreak?

    I'll translate his words into him wanting armed soldiers knocking on people's doors to enforce isolation. Am I exaggerating and twisting his words and intent? No, just doing a Seymour.

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300240992/covid19-politicians-call-for-a-stronger-approach-to-ensure-people-selfisolate

    • Muttonbird 6.1
      28 February 2021 at 12:49 pm

      Worse, I think he wants a private militia to do the door-knocking.

      Collins has gone off script too, now asking for Maori and Pacific communities to be vaccine prioritised.

    • Sanctuary 6.2
      1 March 2021 at 7:21 am

      Seymour would only want these rules to apply to lower class people in South Auckland.

  7. Muttonbird 7
    28 February 2021 at 1:52 pm

    That energy you spend giving your opinion on something that's already happened is a bit of a wasted energy.

    – Papatoetoe High School principal

    Can't agree with this. Energy spent giving your opinion on something that's already happened may prevent it from happening again.

    It’s the most important time to give your opinion.

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-anger-at-breach-fears-about-conspiracy-theories-during-lockdown/FD37KPUOA7AN3FVCCFMJMSJFHI/

    • Incognito 7.1
      28 February 2021 at 4:07 pm

      I think that context is important, as usual:

      Couillault said despite this, Kiwis should move forward and focus on doing the right thing for themselves and the broader community.

      He agreed with the Prime Minister that while frustration was understandable, attacking the latest case was not helpful.

      "That energy you spend giving your opinion on something that's already happened is a bit of a wasted energy."

      However, post-hoc analyses are essential to learn from and avoid future mistakes, if any.

  8. Pataua4life 8
    28 February 2021 at 2:14 pm

    Watch as JA suddenly disappears from the 1.00pm briefing. Lockdown fatigue will start killing all that political capital and JA 's masters will want her insulated from the backlash.

    • Muttonbird 8.1
      28 February 2021 at 2:24 pm

      I don't get this. First you say she's there too much. Then not enough.

      Please make up your mind!

    • David 8.2
      28 February 2021 at 2:46 pm

      Even before the last alert level yo-yo she had backed away from all her regular unscripted media appearances …. oh, except to publicise a lost teddy.

    • AB 8.3
      28 February 2021 at 3:44 pm

      "Lockdown fatigue will start killing all that political capital"

      You wish. Judith Collins seemed quite chirpy-happy on the telly this morning too – so you are keeping dubious company. Pataua is a nice spot – you could go for a walk by the estuary and be grateful that someone cares enough to have saved what the Americans would call your 'ass'?

  10. shanreagh 10
    28 February 2021 at 10:34 pm

    I had made another comment but had to delete it as it would not let me edit to correct a mistake.

    Trying again.

    I am hoping that 'someone' is asking these recalcitrant Aucklanders why they have been ignoring the lockdowns and requirements around their specific cases. Framing it, not in a horrible way, but out of concern to find a better way. There is a way of questioning, cannot remember the name, but it appeals to one's better nature …… Talks people through what happened so they get a sense of where they may have erred and seeks answers from them as to what might work for their peers etc to help them obey the lockdowns etc. There may be cultural problems with a (any) line of questioning ……

    I sense that employers may be lacking as well. Just because someone turns up for their shift in Papatoetoe surely should not signal to the employer that they are correctly there. Especially if the employer employs High school students or the siblings of high school students.

    Some of the employers are big enough to be able to put in place special H & S briefings, contact MOH etc about these students/siblings and also have information on hand, that they, the employers, have sourced about how to apply for wage subsidies etc.

    • lprent 10.1
      28 February 2021 at 11:23 pm

      I had made another comment but had to delete it as it would not let me edit to correct a mistake.

      Yeah, I can see it in trash and the repeated events. Which operating system or type of device?, which browser?, and what was the re-edit doing?

      I can have a look in the database and logs to see what was happening – but usually it is better to find out what the bug looked like to the user.

      I suspect that you might have gotten caught by the fact that the primary comment editor is what you see is what you get editor. But the re-edit is different – it is pure HTML (basically to allow people who know HTML a chance to fix formatting issues).

      Ummm. I can see a report about something similar in early February. In that case from someone quite familiar with the site. I’ll have a look at it in a few days (waiting on a software tool I need).

      • shanreagh 10.1.1
        1 March 2021 at 10:30 am

        Thanks…..I have an ancient set-up on the way to an upgrade. Mac OS X 10.8.5 running the appropriate Firefox edition. I have never had a problem editing on here, in fact it is one of the simpler MBs to post and edit/correct on.

        • lprent 10.1.1.1
          4 March 2021 at 11:34 pm

          Couldn't see anything obvious (finally got some time). Nothing in the logs. I'm inclined to think that it is just client side javascript acting up.

          I usually just suggest clearing the browser cache and (these days) suggesting that restarting the computer might be a good idea if it has been on or largely in sleep for months.

  11. Stuart Munro 11
    28 February 2021 at 10:50 pm

    I just saw a pretty good meme about all this – graffiti on a wall

    I get locked down – but I get up again…

    I just hope it wasn't the virus singing it.

  12. Sanctuary 12
    1 March 2021 at 7:43 am

    Listening to RNZ, it seems obvious that the opposition strategy is now to try and drive a wedge between South Auckland and the rest of Auckland/NZ by attacking the trust model and demanding authoritarian, intrusive and coercive state powers be mainly applied to the irresponsible and undeserving seething masses of ignorant brown people in South Auckland.

    In other words, it is National applying their usual welfare policies to COVID.

  13. Ad 13
    1 March 2021 at 10:42 am

    Everyone ready for Level 4?

    Risk is pretty high now.

  14. greywarshark 14
    1 March 2021 at 4:20 pm

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/437369/covid-19-gps-denied-dhbs-leftover-vaccines-it-s-just-soul-destroying

    Some South Auckland GPs were turned away when they tried to get vaccinated for Covid this weekend after spare doses became available.That's despite them working on the frontline of the outbreak of 15 people centred around Papatoetoe High School that has sent the city back to alert level 3.

    The city's district health boards (DHBs) had leftover vaccine after a week of border worker rollouts so offered it to health workers before it spoiled.

    But several South Auckland GPs who turned up to get a dose were denied one, leaving them distraught.

    This makes me sad, our GPs are on the front line too and are VIPs when it comes to sickness treatment, but under a system that has a fair amount of private enterprise thinking, rather than the let's all pull together and share this sort of thing happens, there is no excuse for it though. Probably the strict requirements of the contract don't specify working closely with GPs so it doesn't matter. Machine-minds again. And perhaps the idea is that only working people from South Auckland are at risk, and the GPs work has not registered in minds.

  15. David 15
    1 March 2021 at 5:59 pm

    Sit in traffic for 8 hours to get back into Auckland – go through a police checkpoint.

    Break every lockdown rule known – close the largest city in the country and the police and political response is meh, oh well.

    • Treetop 15.1
      1 March 2021 at 7:31 pm

      Do you know what happens in a queue if someone runs out of petrol and they have no way of paying for more?

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