Lies damn lies and tax analysis

Written By: - Date published: 1:21 pm, March 2nd, 2019 - 67 comments
Categories: capital gains, Deep stuff, Gerry Brownlee, national, Politics, same old national, spin, Steven Joyce, tax, you couldn't make this shit up - Tags:

The Government is taking time to consider its response to the Tax Working Group’s proposed capital gains tax.  As it should.  These decisions are not easy ones and potentially government ending ones.

But the hiatus in providing a response had let the opposition say all sorts of stuff.  Much of what has been said is as credible of Stephen Joyce’s claim of a $11.5 billion hole in Labour’s draft budget figures but the claims are being sent far and wide.

Damien Venuto at the Herald has been analysing what has been happening.  Although I disagree with his conclusion that the debate has actually skewered public perception, because there is remarkably strong support for a CGT, he is correct that National and its allies have been attempting to make the debate into something that it is not.

His article says this:

The release the Tax Working Group’s recommendations prompted a rapid flurry of responses from interest groups railing against the proposed capital gains tax.

Business NZ, The Employers and Manufacturers Association, the Canterbury Employers Chamber of Commerce and the Property Investors Federation were just some of the organisations to fire out releases before the ink had even dried on freshly printed copies of the report.

These carefully crafted responses quickly made their way into headlines, skewing the debate sharply in favour of those opposed to a capital gains tax.

In the initial rush for angles and opinions, views in support of the capital gains tax proved difficult to find amid the roaring chorus of “no”.

The lobby groups had ample time to prepare for something that had been strongly hinted at in the preceding months – and wasted no time in striking when those hints came to fruition.

And National has been engaging in US republican style hyperbole in its attempt to denigrate the proposal.

Like this attempt to suggest that ordinary workers with Kiwisaver accounts were going to be hit:

That is a big scary number.

There is this detail on how the figure is calculated on National’s website:

The estimated $64,000 reduction in value assumes a 45-year working life and is based on 15 per cent of a ‘balanced’ KiwiSaver fund being in Australasian shares, which would be taxed on an accrual basis on total annual gains. It also assumes the minimum employer and employee contribution rates.

I presume they have assumed the tax is paid by the provider each year and the rate of return is thereby diminished.

The calculations seem herculean. Year one the account would be worth $4,100. If 15% was invested in shares and there was a 4% return the return would be $24.60. Tax would be a third of this. I appreciate it is accumulated and there is wage inflation but the figure still seems high.

Of course, and I am presuming this because National has not released the details of its calculations, no account has been made for other TWG recommendations which include increased support for Kiwisaver and the suggested reduction to the bottom income tax threshold so that workers do get a tax cut or suggestions that the CGT should be tax neutral.

And I can confidently assert that no allowance is being made for the fact that a CGT will improve Sophie’s chances of buying a house, even in Auckland.

It is really rich that the party that hobbled Kiwisaver contributions and weakened its effectiveness should be complaining about steps that may reduce the value of Kiwisaver accounts.

But you get the picture.

The tactic clearly is to come up with a number and keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it.

But the way I see it this claim is as credible as Steven Joyce’s $11.5 billion dollar hole or Gerry Brownlees’s clanger of a mistake concerning the cost of income tax bracket shift.

67 comments on “Lies damn lies and tax analysis ”

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  1. Tuppence Shrewsbury 1
    2 March 2019 at 1:44 pm

    If the government isn’t planning on taxing the capital gains a kiwi may achieve with KiwiSaver, why don’t they explicitly exempt KiwiSaver? Like pretty horses were exempted

    • KJT 1.1
      2 March 2019 at 3:26 pm

      Capital gains in Kiwi saver are already taxed.

      For most people it won’t make any difference.

      Standard right wing tactics.
      1.If all else fails, lie frequently and in unison.
      2. After all “perception is reality”, and “if you repeat something often enough it becomes true”.

      • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 3:54 pm

        Who is telling lies?

        If mickeys tax gain Calculation is correct, then national is correct and there will be an additional tax on the sale of shares in a KiwiSaver fund. So it’s not the KiwiSaver person being taxed directly, it’s a reduced return to the fund as a result of the tax. Effectively an additional tax.

        It’s not a right wing mentality, it’s understanding the impact of this tax. I’m not against it per se. I’m against it being so high and pretty horses being exempt.

        • Sam 1.1.1.1
          2 March 2019 at 4:07 pm

          I think the more fluid workforce of today is also a hindrance. Even if we assume that companies don’t play games to avoid paying kiwi saver contributions, the employee who starts working for a company at age 18 and sticks with them until retirement is an increasingly rare breed as people are both willing and able to look for work far from home without necessarily having to pick up and move, hoping there are jobs where you’re going. That’s another advantage to having something like Employer contributions to kiwi saver. I manage my own retirement savings, the pool of money I have is enough I don’t even need any further contributions, regardless of whether or not I work, the initial investment I made just compound and compound. Of course, I can take the money out early (and suffer the tax penalty for doing so) but companies and governments that have done similar things to pension plans increases the age of retirement (or just look at Welfare).

        • KJT 1.1.1.2
          2 March 2019 at 4:09 pm

          Almost all Kiwi savers are in managed funds.

          Investments, Loke most savings, are liable for CGT, already.

          To claim it will make a difference to the average saver is an outright, lie.

          Even worse then the idea that the “average hard working Kiwi” will be hit hard by capital gains taxes.

          The “average Kiwi” after decades of giving to the rich and taking from the middle and low income, doesn’t get much capital gains.

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.1.1.2.1
            2 March 2019 at 4:31 pm

            So investment funds won’t pay capital gains when they sell shares at a profit? Because the value of fund increase gets taxed at the end of the year when the fund units tax return is filed? Is this what you are claiming will happen?

            • Sam 1.1.1.2.1.1
              2 March 2019 at 4:51 pm

              In that case, you’re better off investing in bullets. When you make the elite class the masters of the economy, the economy collapses through being sucked into the elites petty wars and austerity, “petty wars of elite entertainment,” petty shit. Ammunition, on the other hand, will be worth its weight in fresh vegetables.

              • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                2 March 2019 at 6:01 pm

                What are you talking about?

                Prosperity brings peace. Guessing you’ve just read about che guevera on the Wikipedia?

                • Sam …
                  2 March 2019 at 6:07 pm

                  Rather catch cancer than guess what you are guessing.

                  Infrastructure you nub. Infrastructure is prosperity AND human rights.

                • greywarshark …
                  2 March 2019 at 7:36 pm

                  Tuppence
                  You are talking hopeful stuff and not facts – prosperity and peace. Nice alliteration though.
                  If you want to present yourself as knowing stuff stick to what you know
                  and give us the facts.

                  You dear old couple having a hug about being so wise and knowing – you and shadrach are funny.

                  • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                    3 March 2019 at 9:35 am

                    Another unintelligible ramble on this thread. Are you sams parent? Did you teach them how to be incoherent and delusional?

            • Shadrach 1.1.1.2.1.2
              2 March 2019 at 6:12 pm

              HI TP

              KJT’s comments contain some inaccuracies that aren’t helpful.

              There are a range of scenarios with managed funds, here are the common ones:

              1. A managed fund operates to hold shares for dividend income. The shares are held in NZ companies. In that situation, if shares are sold, any capital gain is not taxable.

              2. A managed fund operates to trade in shares. The shares are held in NZ companies. In that situation, if shares are sold, any capital gain is taxable.

              3. A managed fund operates to hold shares for dividend income. The shares are held in overseas companies. In that situation, if shares are sold, the tax liability status is based on something called the ‘FIF’ (foreign investment fund) status. If the shares are held in a FIF, then the change in market value each year is taxable, along with any dividend. If the shares are not held in a FIF, then only the dividend is taxable.

              4. A managed fund operates to trade in shares dividend income. The shares are held in overseas companies. In that situation, if shares are sold, any capital gain is taxable.

              Where KJT is confused (“Investments, Loke most savings, are liable for CGT, already”) is scenario 1, and the non FIF shares I scenario 3. As I see it, a CGT will absolutely impact an average saver/investor who is covered by either of these scenarios, so again KJT has it wrong. But perhaps worse than that, a local CGT will remove the incentive to invest in NZ stocks (in that currently any CG on trade is non taxable if the shares are held for dividend income), an entirely perverse scenario.

              • Sam …
                2 March 2019 at 6:55 pm

                Translation: We better try and cut taxes now before public health and education collapses the economy and every one can save the world by buying more stocks. Congrats Dr, you have fallen hard for the inversion narritive. Not sure you can be helped. Less than 1% of managed funds turned a profit last year. Only way they can break even is by signing up new clients.

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                  2 March 2019 at 7:07 pm

                  I’ll bite to your idiocy Sam.

                  Any evidence that only 1% of funds turned a profit and aren’t just a massive ponzi?

                  • Sam …
                    2 March 2019 at 7:31 pm

                    “Despite the contraction, the decline in 2018, of just over $100bn, is significantly less than the $461bn drop in 2008.”>>> https://www.ft.com/content/a9f600ca-1b2f-11e9-b93e-f4351a53f1c3

                    There’s maybe 2 moves hedge funds can choose that haven’t rolled over yet. Good luck picking the right hedge fund that will get it right with your level of education.

                    • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                      3 March 2019 at 9:44 am

                      Content locked behind a paywall? Probably doesn’t relate to anything.

                      My managed KiwiSaver fund, the growth fund at milford, turned a healthy profit, so did all its other funds. So they’re 100% in the black. let’s look for more

                      Year to date positions for KiwiSaver funds at the end of dec 18 range from an average positive return for conservative funds to an average negative return for growth funds. This would imply more then more than 1% of funds make profit

                    • Sam …
                      3 March 2019 at 1:34 pm

                      I’v copy and pasted the relevant bit for you.

                    • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                      3 March 2019 at 7:50 pm

                      A quote with no context is like a sausage with no sauce, dubious.

                      Ed mark 2, except your arguments are less convincing as you seem to have a subscription to the FT

              • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                2 March 2019 at 7:11 pm

                Thanks Shadrach.

                I knew all those things. I just wanted to see if KJT would accept he doesn’t know as much as he thinks he does about everything. Which is probably why his businesses aren’t that successful.

                Too easy to bat away criticism of any labour plan as national politicking. It prevents proper scrutiny of any policies and will result in a new kiwi build

                • Shadrach …
                  2 March 2019 at 7:18 pm

                  All good. KJT does post a lot of bs. Sam, on the other hand, is just plain batty.

              • KJT …
                2 March 2019 at 7:43 pm

                Translation.
                Shadrack and reality are only loosely acquainted.

              • KJT …
                3 March 2019 at 9:57 am

                As you well know, only the wealthy buy and hold stocks for dividends.

                The rest of us have savings with fund managers that buy and sell shares.

                Saying that CGT on Kiwi saver will make any difference to most of us, is a lie.

                As you have kindly shown, those who buy shares for dividend income and don’t sell are already taxed, as are those who trade in shares.

                • Shadrach …
                  3 March 2019 at 10:56 am

                  “As you well know, only the wealthy buy and hold stocks for dividends.”
                  Either you have a strange definition of wealthy, or you are once again talking out of your backside. That said, you at least are acknowledging your comments around KiwiSaver and CGT are false.

        • KJT 1.1.1.3
          2 March 2019 at 7:41 pm

          Kiwi saver fund managers count as “traders” in buying and selling shares.
          Hence they cannot use the, bought as an ongoing investment loophole.

          • Shadrach 1.1.1.3.1
            2 March 2019 at 8:39 pm

            “Kiwi saver fund managers count as “traders” in buying and selling shares.”
            I’ll resist pointing out the obvious contradictions in you recent posts, but you’ll need to have a chat with Michael Cullen.

            “Sir Michael Cullen says the Tax Working Group is looking for ways to stop any capital gains tax from eating into people’s KiwiSaver accounts.”

            https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2018/09/fears-kiwisaver-could-be-hit-by-capital-gains-tax.html

          • Tuppence Shrewsbury 1.1.1.3.2
            3 March 2019 at 9:45 am

            So there activities will incur a CGT is what you are saying?

            • KJT 1.1.1.3.2.1
              3 March 2019 at 1:32 pm

              If you are in the business of buying and selling shares, yes, you are taxed on the gains.

              • Tuppence Shrewsbury …
                3 March 2019 at 7:52 pm

                KiwiSaver funds buy shares, so they’ll be taxed on sale for gains. The fund then grows more slowly thanks to tax, but if it grows at all it’s taxed again.

                Ergo, the capital gains tax impacts the KiwiSaver fund more than the current tax arrangement.

                Ergo, you don’t know what you are talking about and I’d be very scared of doing business with you

              • Shadrach …
                3 March 2019 at 7:55 pm

                That’s not what you’ve been arguing though.

                “Kiwi saver fund managers count as “traders” in buying and selling shares.
                Hence they cannot use the, bought as an ongoing investment loophole.”

                “Investments, Loke most savings, are liable for CGT, already. To claim it will make a difference to the average saver is an outright, lie.”

                Neither of those statements was accurate. And now you’re contradicting your self.

    • Clive Macann 1.2
      2 March 2019 at 3:29 pm

      I didn’t know the Govt had included or excluded ANYTHING yet. Why are people jumping to conclusions about what is in and what is out? National scaremongering is behind all of this.

      • Sam 1.2.1
        2 March 2019 at 3:52 pm

        So much of the life we live has been designed by the oligarchy that has successfully brainwashed us into doing/thinking/wanting the very things that they sell.

        Start unplugging. Start by taking away the financial power of the elite. Start with Capital Gains Tax.

      • Shadrach 1.2.2
        3 March 2019 at 7:51 pm

        The discussion is about the recommendations of the TWG. There are obviously close ties between Labour and that group (the chair is an ex Labour government Finance Minister), and it was a Labour led government that commissioned the TWG. The noise over the proposals of the TWG is not some National Party plot. It is reaction to the TWG’s proposals themselves, fueled to some degree by the void left by the Labour Party not having a more timely response to a working group it commissioned.

        • Sam 1.2.2.1
          3 March 2019 at 8:01 pm

          7% of kiwis believe in chemtrails

          5% believe in Simon Bridges Leadership.

          Why has National Party leadership fallen in quality. I’m afraid if Simon becomes Prime Minister then the office on the 9th floor of the beehive won’t mean what it used to mean. When parliament is full of liars, thieves, con artists & imbeciles it falls on the safe hands of The New Zealand Defence Force to secure this nations democracy, And the petty whinging about what the well off may or may not pay in taxes.

          • Shadrach 1.2.2.1.1
            4 March 2019 at 9:46 am

            “Why has National Party leadership fallen in quality.”

            An admirer of John Key, were you eh Sam?

        • KJT 1.2.2.2
          4 March 2019 at 10:11 am

          National being hypocritical, as usual.

          “Haters and wreckers” is an apt description of National.

          • Shadrach 1.2.2.2.1
            4 March 2019 at 12:07 pm

            Given that you’ve been shown up on your lack of understanding of CGT and it’s impact on investments, it’s hard to much of what you say seriously.

  2. AB 2
    2 March 2019 at 1:49 pm

    I do think the debated has moved on a bit from 2014 – for example Guyon asking Amy Adams about her property holdings, or my barber roaring with laughter at Simon Bridge’s characterization of owning rentals as part of “the Kiwi way of life”. (Two incomes, 1 kid, mid-30’s and still renting)

    But it hasn’t moved on enough I fancy. The commentariat, including almost the entire media, belong to the social class that may have to pay something.
    It’s a funny old place Kiwiland, nice enough people, but viciously greedy at times.

  3. patricia bremner 3
    2 March 2019 at 2:23 pm

    When the Government makes the decision to have CGT, they just need to put out the actual tax tables.
    Gnats can’t make up stories then.

    No one should be putting money into the Australian share market or their houses. A very shaky future there at present. Both are due for falls. A bad example by the Nats.

    The people in National want everyone in NZ to think they will lose. The biggest losers would be 2nd property owners +.

    The only capital most people have is the Michael Cullen designed Kiwi Saver, which would be twice as valuable except National halved the starter gift, lowered what the employer had to pay, and generally weakened it.

    Gnats are not counting the offsets offered by the Government to middle and lower paid Kiwi savers. Typical… just tell half the story. There would be little to pay for this group and the lowest would be better off.

    By trying to frighten these people with Kiwi Saver into voting against Capital Gains Tax, the owners of many houses properties and investments hope to dodge paying CGT, and overturn the Government. That would make us all losers.

  4. Sacha 4
    2 March 2019 at 2:57 pm

    In the initial rush for angles and opinions, views in support of the capital gains tax proved difficult to find amid the roaring chorus of “no”.

    Media did not seek out the views of actual working people, renters, etc – that’s why. More betrayal of their profession’s obligations and standards.

    • ScottGN 4.1
      2 March 2019 at 3:13 pm

      That’s why the line from the PM on The Nation this morning when she said she wanted to hear everyone’s views on the CGT not just columnists in the Herald was so good.

  5. Kat 5
    2 March 2019 at 3:09 pm

    When will people finally realise that National will say and do anything to be in power. that is ALL they are about, managers of the status quo and piss poor at that. At least Labour/NZ First/Greens have new ideas and policies to put before the electorate for discussion. National loves playing the hard nose political game and likes to be seen as the power brokers and superior economic managers. National and poodles are in for a surprise. Labour/NZ First/Greens are enjoying being in govt and have no compunction to toss it all away. This govt won’t be dying in a ditch over a tax that affects the greedies among us.

  6. greywarshark 6
    2 March 2019 at 3:38 pm

    Brian Easton has written a thoughtful column on CGT. He finishes in apologetic mood. I think that is so honest. He says it is difficult – looked at it from different perspectives.

    https://www.pundit.co.nz/content/to-tax-capital-gains-or-not-to-tax-capital-gains

    He also refers to the Minsky cycle and gives a link. Perhaps we should read about it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_Minsky#Minsky's_financial_instability_hypothesis

    Hyman Philip Minsky (September 23, 1919 – October 24, 1996) was an American economist, a professor of economics at Washington University in St. Louis, and a distinguished scholar at the Levy Economics Institute of Bard College. His research attempted to provide an understanding and explanation of the characteristics of financial crises, which he attributed to swings in a potentially fragile financial system.

    This is an interesting analysis in the sub-prime mortgage crisis heading.
    McCulley also points out that human nature is inherently pro-cyclical, meaning, in Minsky’s words, that “from time to time, capitalist economies exhibit inflations and debt deflations which seem to have the potential to spin out of control. In such processes, the economic system’s reactions to a movement of the economy amplify the movement – inflation feeds upon inflation and debt-deflation feeds upon debt-deflation.”

    In other words, people are momentum investors by nature, not value investors. People naturally take actions that expand the high and low points of cycles. One implication for policymakers and regulators is the implementation of counter-cyclical policies, such as contingent capital requirements for banks that increase during boom periods and are reduced during busts.

    • RedLogix 6.1
      2 March 2019 at 3:41 pm

      Minsky huh …. must have been reading Steven Keen.

      Who incidentally is now proven right about the Australian house price bubble.

      • Sam 6.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 4:32 pm

        It’s actually no difficulty betting against the 90% of morons who lose money on housing day in and day out. What’s more difficult is to explain to the morons in away they understand how they’re losing day on and day out. For that Steve Keen has my thanks and admiration.

  7. joe90 7
    2 March 2019 at 3:53 pm

    But you get the picture.

    The tactic clearly is to come up with a number and keep repeating it and repeating it and repeating it.

    Rig the economy by rigging the dialogue. Words matter.

    This isn’t the only move, though. Another move is simply altering our collective conversation about what change is. The Stanford sociologists Aaron Horvath and Walter Powell show that these hyper-elites are very successful at changing the conversation. They’re good at making certain approaches to change look bad and making others look better. For example, elites often make charter schools look better than they are or make unions look worse than they are.

    Or elites might introduce a new concept like “resilience”, a concept that sounds great but that is actually just about adjusting to societal crappiness rather than fixing it. What wealthy people do is rig the discourse.

    https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/feb/28/anand-giridharadas-interview-winners-take-all?

  8. Observer Tokoroa 8
    2 March 2019 at 4:43 pm

    Fairness

    The more Capital Gains Tax assists the lower wage and asset weak citizens of NZ, the deeper National and its dishonest money exercises will cripple Simon Bridges and his bewildered followers..

    Everyone knows that there has to be equity in a civilised Democracy. Everyone one, that is, except the likes of the immediate past Government of Sir John Key and Sir Billy English.

    Having people unable to ever own a house; or having people in a Landlord’s unregulated noose is outrageous in a Democracy.

    Capital Gains Tax is fair to all – not to the greedy nor the fraudulent.

  9. mickysavage 9
    2 March 2019 at 5:40 pm

    Digging deeper into the claim taxing on an accrual basis would mean taxing presumably yearly on capital gains.

    The TAG proposes that this be at a discounted rate. So applying a tax at a full rate looks somewhat disingenuous.

    • KJT 9.1
      3 March 2019 at 10:04 am

      I don’t think the Government will ever charge a CGT, at the full personal tax rate.

      Unfortunately.

      Why should wage earners pay most of the taxes, on income earned through, work?

      We already have PIE, and taxes on shares at lower rates.

  10. Ad 10
    2 March 2019 at 6:01 pm

    Government should have got its proxy commentators ready to contest the held of public opinion long before the report landed.

    There are far too few of them, and none are on talkback.

    The Capital gains Tax debate is having all the hallmarks of the Remain team from the Brexit debate: right on the facts but still losing. Tactically dumb on multiple fronts.

    I see the New Lynn MP Deborah Russell is doing a public meeting on Monday on tax.

    Because this meeting comes out before the government has proposed a position, all she can do is explain the conclusions of a report that isn’t hers. She’s not a portfolio-holder in a related field, and there’s no support from any Minister.

    Way to get eaten by a crowd Debs.

    That was why it was necessary to get proxy commentators in the field, or Ministers who are prepared to do more than bend and lace their own shoes to run backwards fast.

    • RedLogix 10.1
      2 March 2019 at 6:10 pm

      It’s a mistake I’ve seen made over and over by the left.

      It’s almost as if we think our intrinsically wonderful ideas will just sell themselves ….

      • Ad 10.1.1
        2 March 2019 at 6:16 pm

        The only Minister taking the hits is Twyford, and his is the only two portfolios in which they are making a real effort backed by shedloads of money and ambitious policy (pity he’s put people in that are simply wrecking his necessary public service machinery).

        Most of the rest of this government are already pretty identical to Key’s lot.

      • KJT 10.1.2
        3 March 2019 at 9:38 am

        Well we expect people to respond to sense and logic.

        However when the opposition is motivated purely by greed, for power and/or money.

        Note the hysterical opposition to CGT, from the well off, who have had 60% tax cuts since the 80’s, objecting to paying their share.

  11. Chris T 11
    2 March 2019 at 6:36 pm

    So let us get this straight.

    You are blaming the opposition for simply taking advantage of the governments vagueness and inability to give any details of anything?

    I get your point, but she is a pretty self inflicted wound.

  12. McFlock 12
    2 March 2019 at 6:53 pm

    Personally, I like the idea of a CGT and wait to see what the leftish parties propose for the next election. Others can debate the minutae of what doesn’t get taxed or whatever, or complain that the government hasn’t deployed enough shills to counter tory shills who are complaining about proposals that haven’t even been adopted for consideration yet.

    Soimon can whinge that the kiwi way of life is under attack – he thinks owning a slew of rental properties is normal. Even kiwisaver/cgt debates are a joke – most people “retire” with fuckall. Taxing a third of fuckall is less painful than having healthcare wait times from an underfunded DHB.

    • Kat 12.1
      2 March 2019 at 7:23 pm

      Yep, and as the PM said today its not a left right ideology debate but rather about whats good for NZ. I like the way Jacinda Ardern cuts through the crap and gets to the nitty gritty. I hope to live long enough to see the blood sucking insurance leeches out of healthcare and the MOW reinstated.

  13. Observer Tokoroa 13
    2 March 2019 at 11:05 pm

    What’s good for New Zealand

    A Worker – never being able to afford a house is not good for New Zealand
    A Worker – Being flogged penniless by our Dickensian Land Lords is – not good for New Zealand.

    It must be politely explained to Simon Bridges that the Wealth of NZ will be shared.

  14. KJT 14
    2 March 2019 at 11:13 pm

    I will leave the last to Gorden Campbell. Who has it in a nutshell.

    “In sum, our tax base has become unusually narrow, even before we begin to consider the challenges being posed by last an ageing boomer population, automation, the gig economy (which will undermine PAYE) climate change and a range of infrastructural needs. That package of issues alone is an argument for expanding the tax base. In recent decades, we have simply become overly reliant on income tax and GST, and our company tax rate is running at above the OECD average – while our tax rate on domestic shareholders is currently the sixth lowest in the OECD.

    To be fair, not everyone who invests in shares or buys and sells property for capital gain are wealthy. But lets not kid ourselves that they’re the norm, either. In fact, the notion that a capital gains tax is against the interests and the values of ordinary New Zealanders is absurd. It is almost as absurd in fact, as National’s claim a few years ago that “Mum and Dad” investors would be the main beneficiaries of its fire sale of shares in our state energy companies. National and Act are protecting a minority interest of the top 10%, and painting this as being synonymous with the national interest. Well, it isn’t.“

  15. greywarshark 15
    3 March 2019 at 9:25 am

    Found this – it is a view on taxes being usurious that will be promoted by those who like hyperbole.

    http://pc.blogspot.com/2019/03/the-tax-collectors-office-by-pieter.html

    • KJT 15.1
      3 March 2019 at 9:46 am

      https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Rogers
      “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs”.

      Where a lot of the screwed up ideas, such as people extracting money from society, are “Wealth Creators”, and “taxation is theft” originated.

  16. cleangreen 16
    3 March 2019 at 12:12 pm

    National only oppose the capital gains tax because they weren’t in Government to sell it to us earlier!!!!!.

    • KJT 16.1
      3 March 2019 at 1:00 pm

      National already added more CGT, the bright line test for landlords.

      Because they knew it was necessary.

      Their current opposition is simply, hypocritical.

      • indiana 16.1.1
        4 March 2019 at 10:20 am

        Are you sure the bright line test was for landlords? It was more for helping the IRD identify property speculators, those that brought and sold quickly.

        If anything National did to landlords was remove the ability to claim depreciation in your tax returns. Not a new tax, not a CGT, nothing hypocritical but a way to raise tax revenue for the government without a detrimental impact on the impact on why many people buy property for the long term investment of building their retirement fund.

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    21 hours ago

  • Decision allows for housing growth in Western Bay of Plenty
    The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 days ago

  • Speech to New Zealand China Council
    Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today.    Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
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    2 days ago

  • Modern insurance law will protect Kiwi households
    The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
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    3 days ago

  • Government recommits to equal pay
    The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says.  “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
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    3 days ago

  • Transforming how our children learn to read
    Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says.  “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
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    3 days ago

  • NZ not backing down in Canada dairy dispute
    Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
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    3 days ago

  • Stronger oversight for our most vulnerable children
    The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
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    3 days ago

  • Streamlining Building Consent Changes
    The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says.      “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
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    3 days ago

  • Minister acknowledges passing of Sir Robert Martin (KNZM)
    New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
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    4 days ago

  • Speech to New Zealand Institute of International Affairs, Parliament – Annual Lecture: Challenges ...
    Good evening –   Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us.  ...
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    4 days ago

  • Accelerating airport security lines
    From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
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    4 days ago

  • Community hui to talk about kina barrens
    People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
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    4 days ago

  • Kiwi exporters win as NZ-EU FTA enters into force
    Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
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    4 days ago

  • Mining resurgence a welcome sign
    There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
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    4 days ago

  • Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill passes first reading
    The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
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    5 days ago

  • Government to boost public EV charging network
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure.  The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
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    5 days ago

  • Residential Property Managers Bill to not progress
    The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
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    5 days ago

  • Independent review into disability support services
    The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
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    5 days ago

  • Justice Minister updates UN on law & order plan
    Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
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    5 days ago

  • Ending emergency housing motels in Rotorua
    The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
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    5 days ago

  • Trade Minister travels to Riyadh, OECD, and Dubai
    Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
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    6 days ago

  • Education priorities focused on lifting achievement
    Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
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    6 days ago

  • NZTA App first step towards digital driver licence
    The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say.  “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
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    6 days ago

  • Supporting whānau out of emergency housing
    Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
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    6 days ago

  • Tribute to Dave O'Sullivan
    Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Speech – Eid al-Fitr
    Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    6 days ago

  • Government saves access to medicines
    Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff.    “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
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    6 days ago

  • Pharmac Chair appointed
    Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
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    1 week ago

  • Taking action on Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder
    Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says.  “Every day, ...
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    1 week ago

  • New sports complex opens in Kaikohe
    Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
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    1 week ago

  • Diplomacy needed more than ever
    Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges.    “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
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    1 week ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address, Buttes New British Cemetery Belgium
    Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service.  It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
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    1 week ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – NZ National Service, Chunuk Bair
    Distinguished guests -   It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders.   Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
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    1 week ago

  • Anzac Commemorative Address – Dawn Service, Gallipoli, Türkiye
    Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia.   Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    1 week ago

  • PM announces changes to portfolios
    Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • New catch limits for unique fishery areas
    Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Minister welcomes hydrogen milestone
    Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
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    2 weeks ago

  • Urgent changes to system through first RMA Amendment Bill
    The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
    BeehiveBy beehive.govt.nz
    2 weeks ago

  • Overseas decommissioning models considered
    Overseas models for regulating the oil and gas sector, including their decommissioning regimes, are being carefully scrutinised as a potential template for New Zealand’s own sector, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. The Coalition Government is focused on rebuilding investor confidence in New Zealand’s energy sector as it looks to strengthen ...
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    2 weeks ago

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