Like two cats in a sack

Written By: - Date published: 1:38 pm, October 6th, 2023 - 15 comments
Categories: act, Christopher Luxon, david seymour, election 2023, national, nz first, war, winston peters - Tags:

Last night’s TV One minor leaders television debate displayed clearly what we already know, Winston Peters and David Seymour hate each other’s guts.

Some of the interchanges are recorded in this Radio New Zealand review and included in this passage which starts with Semour’s comment on Peters:

“Well the problem is I don’t know where he stands on almost any issue, he said he’d stick up for licensed firearm owners, sold them down the river; said he’d stand up for farmers, voted for James Shaw’s Zero Carbon Act; said he’d stop co-government, He Puapua was dreamed up under his nose. Even as deputy prime minister he couldn’t stop it.”

Peters responded: “This is rubbish, that’s nonsense. There’ll be people out there saying grow up; we need adults in the room.”

He went on to say it was not his job to trust Seymour – he would need to convince his caucus colleagues. “It’s not a very good start now,” he said.

He also said it was untrue his party would be unstable in any coalition and former National prime minister Jim Bolger and former Labour prime minister Helen Clark had defended him from such claims recently.

The exchange set the tone for an event that delivered plenty of irritable moments.

Superannuation also caused a significant difference of opinion with Peters stating “that the old deserve to retire with a bit of dignity and grace”.

And after the debate National activist Janet Wilson said National leader Christopher Luxon should be “extremely worried”.

I think he should be thinking ‘yikes, I’ve got a problem here’ if he hasn’t already started to think that. I think their antipathy was there for everybody to see.”

When you add the history of what Peters and Seymour have said in the past to each other the possibility of them forming a productive partnership looks pretty grim.

The Spinoff has produced this list:

“Winston Peters has been shredding his own credibility for decades.”

– Seymour, June 2022

“A political cuckold that has got so much integrity he has to get another party to prop him up.”

– Peters on Seymour, July 2020

“The least trustworthy person in New Zealand politics”

– Seymour on Peters, Newstalk ZB, September 25 2023

“Not only is that statement utterly false, but, worse still, we are not going to take it from a cuckolded puppet.”

– Peters appeals to the speaker of the house over a Seymour attack, March 2017

“I take offence at being referred to as a cuck by someone who smoked for 60 years.”
– Seymour, in response, March 2017

“It’s all right, grandpa.”

– Shortly after Seymour said this to Peters in the house (earlier, Peters had called Seymour “Sunshine”), he was chucked out of parliament, June 2020

“David Seymour reminds me of a chihuahua at the front gate barking at every cat, human being or fellow dog that passes by.”

– Winston Peters ruminates, August 2017

“We’re not going to sit around the cabinet table with this clown.” 

Seymour on Peters, after noting “obviously” if necessary he could agree to a government with both involved, on Gone By Lunchtime, September 2023

“People are going to sit down and try and write the legacy of Winston Peters … As they sit and they try to describe what Winston Peters has achieved in 40 years, they will find they have nothing to write. What a shame, what a shame. But, sadly, it is still true that he is taking the shape of a Shouldbegone.”

– A David Seymour parliamentary speech, complete with visual aids, February 2020

“This is a guy who has more bottom lines than a 100-year-old elephant. He is now up to nine bottom lines. He has peaked too early in this election, and he is going to find out that the problem with Winston Peters’ politicking is eventually you run out of other people’s gullibility.”

– Seymour in parliament, July 2017

“Here’s the political cuckold from Epsom shouting out now. You know who that is, don’t you? The one who’s looking for a second tango partner. In fact, I saw him the other night on TV dancing, again … They pick these special moments on national TV to humiliate themselves.”

– Peters has a go at Seymour in the house, February 2020

“It’s like an arsonist showing up dressed as a fireman, saying, ‘I am here to help and fix it all.’” 

– Seymour on Peters as a candidate for government, Newshub debate, September 21 2023

“David Seymour discovered his Māori-ness the same way Columbus discovered America, purely by accident.”

– Peters lashes out at Seymour (Ngāpuhi) on Te Ao with Moana (Sept 18, 2023), though fails to acknowledge that Christopher Columbus would have voted for Act.

“You are a crook. A charismatic crook perhaps, but a crook all the same.”

– Seymour reaches for the hyperbole in a 2020 TV debate

“Winston Peters’ swansong promise to slash immigration is tragic. Peters himself will soon be retired and will require a care worker to help him get dressed and go for a walk. He’ll discover that such facilities can’t function without migrant workers.”

– Seymour on NZ First policy, July 2020

“I’ve spent much of my career respecting and working for retirees. You seem to want to euthanise them. As for your nasty comments about my physical – I reckon you’d last 10 seconds in the ring with me.”

– Peters

As James Shaw said putting these guys in the same Government would be like putting two cats in a sack.  It would be great for the laughs but devastating the country.

15 comments on “Like two cats in a sack ”

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  1. Mike the Lefty 1
    6 October 2023 at 3:23 pm

    And yet when the baubles of power beckon, all will be forgiven.

    I am starting to suspect that both Seymour and Peters are having a ball and the joke will be on us.

    "Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right…"

    • Roy Cartland 1.1
      6 October 2023 at 4:09 pm

      I have an uncomfortable feeling like this too. Winston doesn't give a shit about the bulk of us, he's just after some kind of legacy. Give him a knighthood and a high ministry, he'll swallow any rat.

      Seymour is just demonstrating how much damage he can wreak, so when he's in the private sector he can destroy the lot.

      Luxon will be as ruthless and lassaiz faire as you'd expect.

    • Incognito 1.2
      6 October 2023 at 5:01 pm

      I think you might be right; they know how to keep the eyes on the prize.

  2. Dennis Frank 2
    6 October 2023 at 4:09 pm

    We could call it the Lux dilemma. If he makes it into govt he faces interminable weeks of meetings negotiating a way to govern. He should tell his secretary as he heads off to the first one "I'm taking the dogs for a walk. Poodle A & Poodle B."

    Then she can put it on social media. Or leak it to the msm politicos who will lap it up. Such biological signalling let's everyone know who's in charge. Of course he may not be man enough for that…

    • Kat 2.1
      6 October 2023 at 4:18 pm

      Lux Flakes…………..pure soap……..

    • Ngungukai 2.2
      6 October 2023 at 4:21 pm

      Winston will lot let de Lux release the dogs of war on the New Zealand Economy he will keep the Nats under his thumb, I doubt whether we will see a NACT First Coalition.

    • observer 2.3
      6 October 2023 at 4:44 pm

      As I've said before on here, objectively Luxon would be in a really strong position over both ACT and NZF. He could say to either (or both): "These are my terms, accept them or go and support Hipkins – if you dare".

      He won't say that because …

      a) he wants an excuse to adopt ACT policies ("sorry I broke promises, but they made me do it").

      b) he's spineless.

  3. joe90 3
    6 October 2023 at 4:21 pm

    cats in a sack

    Pepe-te-muimui in a cigarette packet.

    High intensity displays between individuals may lead to combat with preliminary grappling occurring with fore legs which usually results in an individual being thrown onto its back. Any object coming into contact with the mandibles is seized frequently resulting in the loss of appendages

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huhu_beetle#Behaviour

  4. Stephen D 4
    6 October 2023 at 4:42 pm

    In the back of my head, planning for an election before Christmas.

    • observer 4.1
      6 October 2023 at 4:54 pm

      Not actually possible, given the timetable (results, writ, MPs sworn in, etc). A non-PM can't call an election. The G-G would only say "Caretaker Hipkins remains, while you lot keep talking".

      But an election next year? Very possible. If Luxon were smart (he's not) he would patch up a majority, hand out all the stuff voters like (tax cuts, "tough on crime"), then call an election before the failure of those policies becomes apparent.

      He'd have to move fast because in a year he'll have been rolled by his caucus.

  5. Bearded Git 5
    6 October 2023 at 5:41 pm

    Peters and Seymour both want the baubles….they will work it out.

    I'm still hoping for 4.9

  6. Ngungukai 6
    8 October 2023 at 7:56 am

    Which ever way the dice rolls and NZF gets 6.0% + I think Winston and NZF will be holding the right cards and will have a say in the next Government.