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Open Mike 01/11/2018

Written By: - Date published: 6:04 am, November 1st, 2018 - 315 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post.

For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose. The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the Policy).

Step up to the mike …

315 comments on “Open Mike 01/11/2018 ”

  1. cleangreen 1

    What a “breath of fresh air WHO are as they finally take air pollution seriously” Bravo to World Health Organisation, (WHO).

    WHO are also are focusing on the urban residents who are also health effected by “toxic heavy road traffic air pollution” too.

    WHO are claiming that even schools and busy traffic routes be redesigned away from schools and suburban areas also.


    First WHO Global Conference on Air Pollution and Health, 30 October – 1 November 2018
    Improving air quality, combating climate change – saving lives
    A schoolboy walks through smoke and fumes emitted from a waste dump in the Nigerian city of Port Harcourt
    Air Pollution is “the ‘new tobacco…” said Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO’s director general
    If you received an invitation to attend the conference and have not yet registered using the INDICO web portal, then please do so before as soon as possible. The link to the INDICO registration web portal can be found in the invitation email message.

    The first two days of the conference will present evidence, identify gaps and solutions, and will be targeted at practitioners and other technical and political representatives from the health sector and other sectors relevant to the discourse. The third day will be a High-Level Action Day.

    Conference provisional programme – updated 28 October
    pdf, 799kb
    Live webcast (active from 30 October 2018)
    Conference overview agenda
    pdf, 205kb

  2. Ed 2

    Time to nationalise the banks.
    This is well overdue.
    Their parasitic behaviour is leeching billions of dollars out of the New Zealand economy.

    “ANZ’s New Zealand business made more money than Fonterra, Spark, Fletcher Building, the Warehouse, Air New Zealand and the major supermarkets combined last year and it’s not good enough, according to activist investor Sam Stubbs.

    ANZ New Zealand announced a record net profit of $1.98 billion this morning – while its parent company Australia and New Zealand bank made A$6.4b.

    But Stubbs, founder and managing director of KiwiSaver provider Simplicity, and a critic of the banks, said ANZ was taking advantage of its dominant position to extract unreasonable profits.

    “The ANZ profit is classic rent-seeking behaviour.”


    • James 2.1

      Yo Ed.

      How are you going to nationalise an Australian bank ?

      You don’t really think your own stuff thru do you ?

      • Robert Guyton 2.1.1

        Yo James – what’s your take on the smashing the National Party has taken over the past few weeks and what do you reckon about the likelihood that they’ve a lot more coming?

        • James

          Robert. Hardly on topic is it. But since you asked as I have commented a couple of times it was a clusterfuck.

          So back to the topic in hand.

        • James

          Oops typo so other post in holding.

          but in reply – not really on topic is it Robert ?

          And I’m guessing nationals week is going better than labour’s.

          I bet Cindy regrets backing her minister – reading between the lines.

          • Robert Guyton

            “not really on topic”
            This is Open Mike, James. “Open” probably means…open.
            National’s disease must be hurting it’s followers something awful, I reckon. They’ve had a shocker! It’s as if a curtain fell and they were all exposed, standing there, trousers around their ankles, looking startled. Paula Bennett, btw, looks permanently startled these days. Judith Collins always did (it’s the arched eyebrows).

            • James

              Yep. Open mike. But you have problems understanding how threads and reply work huh?

              • Nick

                Sorry James, Robert is on to it. You on the other hand are fully exposed, trousers around your ankles…. Daily.

              • Chris

                I think Robert thought the topic was not thinking things through so responded accordingly.

          • Gabby

            You talkin bout the guy the gnatss let stay here jimbo?

            • Enough is Enough


              Didn’t he arrived under a Labour government, and granted residency by a Labour minister?

        • Tuppence Shrewsbury

          Yo Bobbie fatdude

          Why are labour and the greens still hugging garden variety crims and giving them citizenship?

          • Gabby

            Didn’t Thiele get in under gnattynil tuppy?

            • Tuppence Shrewsbury

              He did, but he didn’t distribute large volumes of class b drugs imported for a meth dealing gang though.

              • McFlock

                Maybe you can check whether a whole bunch of prisoners donated $14k each to the Labour Party?

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                  I checked, It wasn’t 14k each. each was linked with the 14k though

                  • McFlock

                    Oh, well I guess a list MP is worth top dollar then. Even for an opposition party.

                    • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                      Maybe National MP’s are worth more than Labour mp’s, which ever side they sit on.

                    • McFlock

                      Maybe the Labour MPs weren’t for sale.

                    • Robert Guyton

                      Elegant, McFlock.

                    • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                      Oh they are, the price is so low it’s not worth reporting on though.

                      Cabinet clubs with GR at the wellington club. Donations being solicited in Auckland Restaurants.

                      JLR may be pointing fingers, but the coalitions silence on this issue is deafening

          • Red Blooded One

            Wow, Stupid and Nasty in the same comments. You’re not a National MP are you? You’re still happy to support at least one rapist who Woodhouse let stay, Tuppence Shrewsbury supports and loves rapists!!! (judging by her comment)

            • Tuppence Shrewsbury

              Who said I support national? not supporting labour or the greens does not equal supporting national. Quite enjoying the JLR train wreck to be honest.

              Just as I am enjoying watching the amateurs currently in government make stupid calls on an almost daily basis. It concerned me that the JLR affair was letting them off the hook.

              Opposition is back though! yea booiii

      • Sanctuary 2.1.2

        You Nationalise their NZ Operations.

        There, that wasn’t that hard really was it?

        • James

          Not really a detail person are you?

          See it’s in the detail that the deluded ideas like this fall apart.

          • Johnr

            @ James,

            Explanation necessary

          • Gosman

            The NZ operations are actually quite standalone from the Australian parent. If the Government so decided it COULD nationalise them. The bigger question is where would it get the cash to do so. Unless of course by nationalise they mean taking ownership without compensation. I believe that is called stealing and will lead to the NZ economy imploding.

            • tc

              Like the taxpayers not being given a full or even fair value for the flogging of its power generators Gossie ? How about those State houses also….

            • solkta

              Ed never says what he means by “nationalise” and will only tell you to ask google. I’ve tried to start that conversation with him a number of times.

            • Draco T Bastard

              he bigger question is where would it get the cash to do so.

              It’s a sovereign government with its own currency. Just create the money – done. And, hey, if they leave them as is they’ll make enough profit to cover it.

      • Ed 2.1.3

        You don’t allow foreign banks to operate here.

        By the way, when the Amazon rainforest gets felled to make way for cattle farms, we can thank people who eat beef.

        Don’t you care about the world you are leaving your children and grandchildren?

        • Robert Guyton

          Why would we thank them, Ed? And how would we? Do they all read The Standard?

          • Ed

            James always brags about his heavy consumption of steak.

            • Robert Guyton

              It shows in his constipated commenting style 🙂

            • James

              Actually it’s mainly in reply to you going nuts over me mentioning a bbq.

              As it is – I eat some steak but prefer pork and chicken.

              I also love lamb but find it to fatty to eat regularly.

              So my steak intake isn’t that high – but when I do eat beef I make sure it’s good quality.

              • McFlock

                WTF is with “stone grill” steak in a restaurant? I got told it was so I could cook the steak to my satisfaction. If I could cook it perfectly at home, I wouldn’t order it in a restaurant. And why does it cost the same as a cooked steak? WTF does the chef do – make the salad? It totally pisses me off. Steak, medium rare, on a plate. That’s what I want. Not a hot rock and a pile of ingredients.

                • Gosman

                  On this point we are 100% in agreement McFlock. I might have to speak to Lucifer to turn up the heating a tad.

                  • McFlock

                    Maybe stonegrill was invented by the devil? Take a prime cut of steak, and give it to someone without the skill to cook it properly, and they paid full price for it so they’ll probably eat the entire thing.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  Last time I asked for medium-rare at a restaurant they served me super-rare.

                • Tuppence Shrewsbury

                  Thank You!

                  While not quite as bad, deconstructed salads really piss me off. Someone putting all the ingredients of a salad on a plate, that you then have to toss yourself like some sort of after work Paula Bennet.

                • James

                  I’m with you 100% on this. I want someone to cook it better than I can – that’s why I pay for the chef

        • Chris T

          I can pretty safely say I have never eaten any Amazonian beef

        • James

          That’s banning a bank not nationalising it Ed.

          Make up your mind.

          I eat NZ beef. But you’re welcome none the less.

        • mauī

          I thank you for not eating beef Ed, thank you. I am looking forward to Veganuary this year.

        • Gosman

          Thank the people who own cats and dogs.

        • Draco T Bastard

          I can honestly say that I’m not eating beef grown in the Amazon.

          Here’s the thing though: If the world was being economic little to no food would ever be imported/exported. Each country would grow the food that it needs to feed its own people.

          This forces sustainability as far as food goes.

          • Janet

            Best NZ steak I ever ate was in Papeete Tahiti… but it should have been in NZ . Eat the best and export what is left over .

            • In Vino

              Tahiti is French, and the French generally cook better than us. The best lamb I have ever eaten was in France, But the French breed their best lambs purely for meat flavour, and do not compromise for quality of wool. Then they cook it better as well.
              I doubt if all our best goes to export. Upon returning from France, I was positively impressed with the quality of meat that normal people can buy here.

              Whoops – apologies to Ed.

          • JohnSelway

            “Each country would grow the food that it needs to feed its own people.”

            Environmental factors prevent that. But nice try.

            • Draco T Bastard

              What you’re actually saying is that many countries can’t support themselves.

              That’s what’s called unsustainable.

              And, no, trade doesn’t fix that. Take Egypt for example. IIRC, it can presently feed 60% of its population from it’s own farms. The rest is a result of import paid for by the export of their oil. Egypt’s oils has Peaked. This means that in a few years, at most, Egypt is going to be in famine and there’s nothing that they can do about it through trade because have pretty much nothing else to export.

              • McFlock

                Jeez, if only they had some local attractions or a global trade route to leverage ff. Then they might get someone to stump up several billion for a nuclear power plant to offset that emerging energy deficit. As it is, poor Egypt: Land of the Pharked.

                • Draco T Bastard

                  It’s not that they have an energy deficit – it’s that they have a resource deficit because they’ve exported all the oil.

                  Does the Suez Canal and tourism bring in enough to cover the loss of oil exports?

                  • McFlock

                    Gross, or compared to their oil imports?
                    And might Suez be why the Russians are putting $25bill towards a nuke plant?

                    • Draco T Bastard

                      More specifically, does it provide enough to allow the importation of enough food for 40%+ of their population?

                      A nuke plant isn’t going to feed them.

                    • McFlock

                      Neither is oil.

                      But energy is a resource, too.

                      Oh, and they have shedloads of sunshine.

                      So if they export that energy, or use it to attract energy-intensive industries, they can use the revenue to buy food from countries that have lots of arable land and make lots of food, but possibly want things those industries produces.

                      And thus we’ve invented global trade.

      • Cinny 2.1.4

        Sheez, it’s way too early for bickering children.

        In keeping with the topic, how many of you use kiwi owned banks for either your home or business?

        It’s very very easy to change banks, I highly recommend it.

        • Doogs

          We had a mortgage with Westpac. Not our choice, but Westpac swallowed up Trustbank who we were originally with. Weren’t happy, but what can you do. The interest rate wasn’t too bad so we stayed, vowing to change when the mortgage went. Remember how they called themselves WestpacTrust . . . for while . . . just to look good! Anyway, when we got some money, discharged the mortgage and were looking for where to invest, Westpac had the best interest rate. So to get something back out of them we put our money there. We are looking to change banks when the investment matures. Our best options look to be Kiwibank or TSB. I hate the fact that WPC is an Ozzie bank with profits going overseas, however we want the best return for money. Quandary. Hate them but want the most out of our money.

          • Gosman

            If they are making super profits then that must mean Kiwibank is as well. In which case why doesn’t the government just instruct Kiwibank to hoover up all the customers in NZ by undercutting the other majors?

            • gsays

              IF you want an answer to your question about kiwibank’s position in the he market, Sam Stubbs was interviewed on RNZ yesterday.
              I heard him mention how they were loaded with post shop assets and an obligation to provide relevant sservices…
              There was another issue that I didn’t totally grasp but my attention was divided. Ahh, it was undercapitalised.
              Both were dampeners on growth.

              Each staff member generated approximately$220,000 profit. Profit!

              Surely it makes sense to you to have the many billions of dollars profit stay in Aotearoa.
              It can only be an ideologue mindset that makes you see otherwise.

              Warning contains talking by Jim Mora and Peter dunne.

              • Gosman

                Kiwibank is undercapitalised and can’t take advantage of the market. Hmmm… whose fault is that again? I’ll give you a clue, it is the owner of the Bank.

          • Cinny

            Doogs, what you said about westpac adding the word trust for a while, made me smile, marketing for sure.

            Building Societies are awesome, our local Nelson Building Society (NBS) contributes so much to the community.

            For example if one is looking for fundraising for a community event and asks around the banks for support, all the big banks will say no, but not the NBS, they often support community events and needs.

            Personally I use kiwibank, they’ve been great.

        • Ed

          I use a New Zealand bank.

        • JanM

          Part of the problem is that it seems, in conversations I’ve had with people, that many have no idea who owns the banks and react with astonishment to discover that banks called Auckland Savings Bank and Bank of New Zealand don’t belong to us!

          • SpaceMonkey

            Precisely why CBA and NAB respectively retained those brands… both very strong in NZ.

        • SpaceMonkey

          100% of my personal and business banking is with a 100% NZ-owned bank. Made the switch when I became aware of how much profit Australian banks were extracting from NZ.

          That said, it was easy to do as my business banking needs are largely transactional. If you’re a business that requires significant bank lending, you are stuck with the Aussie-owned banks.

        • Heather Grimwwod

          To Cinny at 2.1.4 : To change to kiwi -owned banks IS certainly the glaringly obvious solution, and has been for considerable time….confounds me why they are not totally utilised by New Zealanders. I have aways had the best help one could wish.

          • Cinny

            Totally agree with you Heather.

            Recently the ANZ in Motueka closed it’s doors, some friends who bank with them were complaining, but yet they still didn’t move to either Kiwibank or the NBS.

            I think it’s one of those things that people place in the ‘too hard basket’, then when they finally get round to changing banks, say things like, gosh that was easy I should have done it a long time ago.

        • riffer

          Went with Kiwibank a few years ago, and refinanced the mortgage last year with them again. We haven’t regretted it. The lack of ability to just rock on up to the bank to discuss things is mitigated by online support and us planning a bit better.

        • Antoine

          I don’t mind using Australian banks. Equally happy for an Australian to have my dosh as a Kiwi. We’re all Australasians together.


      • Grey Area 2.1.5

        Stalking Ed again James?

      • reason 2.1.6

        Yoo James …. Do you think ANZ appointed Key as a director because they wanted someone who would keep quiet and not dig up or into all the corruption they are involved with …. http://www.sarawakreport.org/2018/03/the-banking-spin-starts-commentary/

        “The Panama Papers: ANZ was the leading Australian bank in Mossack’s universe”

        ” ANZ appears in 7548 of the Mossack documents, reflecting the bank’s extensive work in New Zealand, the Cook Islands, Samoa and Jersey. ”

        Crooked hires Bent to be blind.

      • Draco T Bastard 2.1.7

        Don’t bother nationalising them – just out-compete them to the point that they go bankrupt.

        1. 0% interest on mortgages
        2. 0% interest business loans
        3. Ban the private banks from creating money in any way, shape or form.

        Result – private banks will collapse pretty much immediately and only Kiwibank will be left standing.

    • Gosman 2.2

      If you think they are not providing a suitable service that people are willing to pay for why isn’t Kiwibank doing better then? It is a completely State controlled Bank.

      • SaveNZ 2.2.1

        @Gosman, Kiwibank would do better if it was more a full service bank. Also banking has also come down to relationships and history, so that there are big incentives to stick with the same bank as people’s situation gets more insecure with work.

        Aka in NZ massive amount of people now are on contract, gig work or self employed. The history of that becomes a key, in a banking arrangement. Nobody wants to shift all their business, then find out, they have a bad month or months and have the bank breathing down their necks.

        So there are many reasons that people stay with their bank. Satisfaction and best deals are not the only factors when you get into the NZ situation of significant proportions of the population are in insecure work and therefore take strategic positions on banking and insurance.

        The amount of banking, financial institutions and insurance that has gone out of business also makes people cautious in NZ about new banks and services in that sector.

        They are profiting not because they are great banks but because NZ has embraced everything to do with neoliberalism and that is all about profits for the most dominant, which are banks here. And our government does not believe in any sort of financial regulation even bank deposits are not guaranteed nor Kiwisaver.

        • Gosman

          What do you mean “Full service bank”?

          How is Kiwibank not a “Full service bank”?

          • SaveNZ

            Not sure if Kiwibank have evolved since I thought about joining them, but standing in a queue at the post office stating your business rather than a private office at a bank or getting a mobile person around takes time with Kiwibank and much longer than if you have an existing relationship with a bank and assigned a personal banker.

            Had a friend who was a school principal in a small town, so a bit weird that she was queuing up and stating all the business of the school, while the rest of the community could over hear.

            Stuff like that, makes Kiwibank less. a fit for complicated, private and urgent types of banking.

            Also anything to do with property in Auckland generally require quick and flexible banking decisions as the market is fast and auction driven. Took me so long to buy a house in Auckland that my 6 months of pre application had expired and then you need to get it back quickly if you see a house to bid on. Therefore you don’t want a new bank that might be slower to make decisions on anything.

            So maybe Kiwibank and the co operatives can get more market share if they step up for more complicated, faster decision making banking, with more customer service and privacy for customers and a long term relationship approach with customers.

            The offshore banks level of customer service has defiantly got a lot worse over the years, so if NZ banks stepped up, they could win more business.

            • solkta

              Of course Kiwibank has interview rooms. Sounds like you are full of shit giving excuses rather than putting your money where your mouth is.

              I’ve been a Kiwibank customer since it was founded.

              • Sacha

                Yes, Kiwibank had private rooms since the day they opened for business. They also have some branches dedicated to business customers.

                No idea what they are like with mortgages or why they would be different than the Aussie-owned banks.

              • SaveNZ

                Just telling you what people have told me Solka and my own experiences trying to change to Kiwibank a few years ago, maybe you don’t have a business or run an organisation, or have complicated banking, or what ever.

                Judging by your stalking of people and the Green Party I’d say you are a unique individual that would probably need a private room in any instance and Kiwibank staff probably usher you straight to one so people don’t overhear your language and tone so you may have never experienced the problems that polite less demanding people might be experiencing.

                • solkta

                  Face it, you are full of shit. Best to have a think before using the word “hypocrite” again.

                  • SaveNZ

                    Is your accusations of ‘shit’, how you manage the private room, Solka?

                    • solkta

                      Face it, you are full of shit.

                    • McFlock

                      Actually, when I made the appointment to see the mortgage person a few years ago we had the option of my place or one of their branches. Small meeting room, 4 chairs, one table, her laptop. Easy as. That was kiwibank.

                      Shopping around, ANZ went with the open plan, wide spaces between desks idea. Probably had private rooms for people who didn’t need mortgages, though 🙂

              • Heather Grimwwod

                to solkta at22.1.1.1: Yes, of course Kiwibank has private rooms and specialists in banking also, friendly at all times. I think some here trying hand at fake news.

              • Siobhan

                My Kiwibank, in Hastings, is a mess. The Carpets are permanently stained, the counter is so banged around it looks like an old pub first thing in the morning, the note counting machine is so temperamental its a running joke, and the manager insists on interviewing people at a table right next to the queue. Its awkward to put it mildly.

                if I didn’t know(hope?) better I would think they were purposefully running it into the ground.

                • SaveNZ

                  +1 Siobhan- Kiwibank needs to look at the details. If a bank looked like you suggest and treated you like that, would you seriously consider it?

                  A little bird suggests, if you start calling everyone a piece of shit, you might get that private room that a certain poster seems convinced is always offered.

                  Of course it also might effect that application or have you escorted out too:)

                  Seriously NZ banks should have an online complaints page for example or even suggestions page at the banks, they might learn a bit more than hiring a marketing firm from Auckland or Wellington who never leave the central suburbs and think they are doing a stellar job at marketing and people are too lazy to change.

                  There are obstacles to changing and issues with the service levels and criteria levels and types of banking that the NZ banking sectors offers!

                • weston

                  Wellsford,s the same Siobhan run by a couple of asian ladies theres often queues and you stand there looking at their static displays of stuff they,d like to sell and cant help thinking “what a load of crap “Heres a relatively large commercial space which presumably the proprietors are renting along with the actual agency but it seems all so halfhearted !?.Why ?Why isnt kiwibank being rolled out in all little towns and villages in nz taking over where the post office used to trade …….buggered if i know ….seems like theres plenty of scope there but not much direction ….or something ….whats holding them back ???

            • Gosman

              It has very much evolved since then. If you go to most Post shops they have a separate desk and private rooms for Kiwibank customers. I ask again, why isn’t Kiwibank a “Full service Bank”?

              • SaveNZ

                @ Gosman, your word ‘most’ is obviously significant. Also more service level might be a recent thing, that people who previously tried to join Kiwibank did not have, at the time. People try to change once, if they don’t have the best experience they may not try again.

                P.s. I did not have a bad experience with Kiwibank but it did not work out because I take wholistic approach with banking and even a small house in Aukcland now may require significant amount of debt which you now split loans for and then you have to make sure they all expire at the same time, and then hope that interest rates don’t go up while you are waiting. It’s not that easy to change if you have decent sized loans for business or housing.

                • SaveNZ

                  I personally hate ANZ and would never bank with them after having a bad experience with them years ago. Also having John Key on the board would put me off. So I would never bank with them.

                  But they do things like monitor companies house so if you set up a business, voila , you get a friendly letter straight away with free bank fees for your business for 3 years.

                  That is how they make the money, they are proactive, reel you in, then screw you over with extreme profiteering when they have you tied up.

                  That’s banking in NZ and the government needs to set higher standards.

                  And Kiwi bank (or anyone else) never sends a nice letter when they could easily target new businesses like ANZ do.

                  Kiwibank and other NZ banks needs to understand customers positions and concerns better.

                  The person who posted about the rural ANZ bank closing but still people don’t change, clearly don’t understand how difficult it is to make money in the rural sector and get loans. It is not easy to change banks in those sectors at all.

                  Many NZ banks only specialise in retail banking, and have very high, unwieldy criteria for farms and business. NZ banks and regulators don’t seem up to speed or understand that the big OZ banks have those customers screwed over in debt and tied up with few alternatives.

                  • SaveNZ

                    I can’t remember exactly, but somebody posted and I think most of Fletchers? losses, were due to ANZ bank fine print on some refinancing terms of loans they took out.

                    That’s how those banks get the massive profits.

                    • SaveNZ

                      As for our constant messages on how easy it is to change banks, electrical or telecom companies. Nope… it ain’t… in real terms it often costs you a bundle of time, non productivity, failed services and extra charges. And our regulators do nothing to stop this type of practise of third party fuck ups.


      • Draco T Bastard 2.2.2

        Kiwibank isn’t a state controlled bank and it operates the same way all the other banks do and is artificially constrained so as not to be able to out compete the private banks which it could easily do if the government got in and supported it properly.

    • SaveNZ 2.3

      The foreign banks treat NZ like the cash cow run from OZ. They are mostly responsible for our 2nd biggest exports out of NZ being profits.

      Yep while our government screws up with another bad trade deal of TPPA or what ever they fuck they rebranded it to, (which even the most neoliberal Parker can not describe as a good deal (was it a 7 out of 10 he gave it?). The government also fail to do anything about about banks and the NZ entire economy is always around giving banks more profits aka corporate welfare to construction, more immigration, more immigration to small businesses like petrol attendants and cafe owners (who then support higher rents and prices on commercial property and residential) selling off land assets, privatisation, oil and gas, exports of water…

      BTW, the PPP model (also rebranded constantly as an acronym) gives the most profits to banks and the financial sector. https://image.guim.co.uk/sys-files/Society/documents/2004/11/24/PFI.pdf

      “our research suggests that PFI may lead to a loss of benefits in kind and a redistribution of income, from the public to the corporate sector. It has boosted the construction industry, many of whose PFI subsidiaries are now the most profitable parts of their enterprises, and led to a significant expansion of the facilities management sector. But the main beneficiaries are likely to be the financial institutions whose loans are effectively underwritten by the taxpayers, as evidenced by the renegotiation of the Royal Armouries PFI (NAO 2001a).”

      The public should also ask themselves why the tax working group never recommended financial transaction taxes to tax outward and inward money flows.

      In short government wants to continue to transfer profits from the people and assets of NZ to the construction, financial and banking sectors, and are not going to tax the banks and financial industries appropriately for their extreme profits . Nor regulate appropriately to the construction sector or banking to stem the rot right through those sectors.

      • Gosman 2.3.1

        The NZ banking sector is incredibly competitive including a State controlled Bank. If the banks are making super profits why isn’t the government instructing Kiwibank to undercut them and take a bigger share of the market?

        • tc

          Quite. KB could become our main bank if the political will exists which it doesn’t currently.

          But the potential is there thanks to Jim Anderton, Rest In Peace Jim.

          • Gosman

            Why do you think the political will doesn’t exist?

            • One Two

              You claim to understand the world of financials , gosman…

              So you should understand why the political will doesn’t exist…

              I’d like to hear your version…

              Go for it….

              • Gosman

                Because the issue with Kiwibank is much more than just a lack of political will. The organisation needs HUGE injection of capital if it has any hope of competing for major work such as being the Government’s banker.

          • Cinny

            Would love to see government use kiwibank instead of an overseas bank for all their transactions.

            Jim Anderton, Grandma rated him very highly, he was one of the good guys.

        • Incognito

          The dogma is that a large bank that makes huge profits every year is a good safe bank (and safe bet for shareholders). I say dogma, but it is really a myth, as we know too well.

          It also is ironic that the bank’s customers contribute a large part to the overall profits.

          So, it’s a catch-22 for the people: lower the profits and customers will go elsewhere and the bank goes bust or fleece the customers to increase profit margins and they will flock to your bank and thus increase the ‘financial health’ of the bank.

          To a point, this would work well if not for greed and bad business decisions on behalf of the banks (cue: GFC).

          • Gosman

            There is no evidence for that claim.

            • Drowsy M. Kram


              Of the ~52 corporates in the “List of a few major corporate collapses”, only a third are/were banking businesses.

              Banks feature at the top of the “List of scandals without insolvency” (probably needs regular updating):

              Australia and New Zealand Banking Group scandal involving misleading file notes in the Financial Ombudsman Service (Australia) presented to the Victorian Supreme Court.

              Australia and New Zealand Banking Group allegations of racial bigotry toward billionaire businessman Pankaj Oswal and his wife. Court was presented with emails where an ANZ staff member comments to ANZ CEO Mike Smith: “We are dealing with Indians with no moral compass and an Indian woman as every bit as devious as PO (Mr Oswal).”

              Australia and New Zealand Banking Group toxic culture. Court case where allegations were made by ex-employees that the bank’s senior management tolerated drugs and strip clubs.

              Australia and New Zealand Banking Group alleged manipulation of the Australian benchmark interest rates. ANZ is currently being pursued by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission, which filed an originating process in the Federal Court of Australia against ANZ in March 2016.

            • SpaceMonkey

              Which claim?

              • Gosman

                This one

                “So, it’s a catch-22 for the people: lower the profits and customers will go elsewhere and the bank goes bust or fleece the customers to increase profit margins and they will flock to your bank and thus increase the ‘financial health’ of the bank.”

                • Drowsy M. Kram

                  Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence of corruption and rampant profiteering in the banking ‘industry’.

                  Hypothesis 1. A bank’s profitability will be a contributing factor in determining that bank’s ‘ratings agency grade’ (AAA, AA, A, BBB etc.)

                  Hypothesis 2. The grades that ratings agencies give banks, and individual bank products/offers/bonds, are factors affecting the (bank/product) choice of some potential customers.


                  “Garnering better grades [from ratings agencies] for the tobacco bonds meant the bankers could sell more of them…”

                  These hypotheses may be false; falsifying evidence (a link or two will do) welcome.

                  Gosman (>140 of comments on The Standard in the last week; 70 (!) on the “National badly wants Kiwibuild to crash” post alone) often asks for evidence, and seems to have a significant aversion to using Google’s search engine – not a single link or quote in those 70 comments.

                  • Gosman

                    Look up burden of proof and get back to me when you understand it.

                    BTW what was those two hypothesis you posted about? They had nothing to do with the claim i was questioning.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      You claim that “They [the two hypotheses] had nothing to do with the claim i [sic] was questioning.”

                      If you genuinely don’t understand how these hypotheses relate to the claim you quoted/questioned, then I don’t have the means to help you in this forum.

                  • Drowsy M. Kram

                    “The burden of proof (philosophy)”


                    Application> In public discourse>

                    “Burden of proof is also an important concept in the public arena of ideas. Once participants in discourse establish common assumptions, the mechanism of burden of proof helps to ensure that all parties contribute productively, using relevant arguments.”

                    Regrettably, the largest political party in parliament has (temporarily) lost its footing and is unable to contribute productively at present.

                    • Gosman

                      In your opinion. Given your opinion is quite obviously biased against said political party I don’t think it holds much weight in determining what is or isn’t productive discourse.

                    • Drowsy M. Kram

                      I have made no claims regarding my (or your) political bias, or lack thereof, in this particular exchange – such claims are largely unnecessary in this forum (IMO).

                      Certainly one assumption we can agree on is that we are (both) expressing our opinions.

                      In my opinion, this recent statement (among others), made by a former 7th-ranked opposition National party MP, has caused said party to (temporarily) lose its footing.

                      “It dawned on me, ‘I know this script, I helped write this script.’ At that point, I felt bad for what I did to Todd. But that’s the modus operandi of the National Party – when people become a liability you push them out the door.”

                      IMO this is a revealing quote, and I thank you Gosman for the opportunity to trot it out again (hopefully not for the last time). The opposition National party really is looking a bit wobbly at the moment (IMO), and will likely recover somewhat (again, IMO) ‘going forward’.

                  • Incognito

                    Gosman’s Law: as a discussion thread on TS grows longer, the probability of Gosman deliberately misunderstanding or twisting a comment and then asking for evidence approaches one.

  3. Cinny 3

    For those following the Khashoggi murder….

    Keep an eye on what’s happening within the Saudi royal family, uncle has returned after a long absence.


    • OnceWasTim 3.1

      One thing I’m curious about is that the 18 apparently arrived on SK1 and SK2 sans baggage, yet I seem to remember seeing the contingent depart with baggage.
      (From the images shown on TV in the early stages of it all).
      Everything the Saudis have said turns out to be such obfuscation, spin and bullshit, they’d not be out of place as gNat MPs. The latest being that ‘Turkish collaborator’ that they’re so unwilling to identify.

  4. Ed 4

    Rachel Stewart explains why the election of Bolsonaro is terrible news for life on this planet.

    “Bolsonaro has an environmental hit list that is bold and brash. Just when the world needs the “lungs” of the world more than ever, he is planning a paved highway to run right through the Amazon rainforest. And no more will a government commitment to preserving vast areas for indigenous people be tolerated. Bolsonaro has previously said that he will “not give the Indians another inch of land”.

    He has also promised to scrap the country’s Environment Ministry altogether, putting it under the scope of the Agriculture Ministry, which is led by agribusiness. Which, to be fair, is only one step further than our own Environment Ministry overseeing regional councils who many — including me — consider to be the biggest enviro rapists on behalf of dairy farming in New Zealand. But, I digress.

    ……we need the two Americas to work hard on stopping runaway climate change like never before — one being the planet’s biggest emitter and the other holding the massive key to any chance of keeping climate change in check at 1.5C.

    Because that’s the Amazon’s job. The rainforest absorbs approximately a quarter of the CO2 absorbed by all the land on earth. Every inch of deforestation matters. And what’s the motive for deforestation in Brazil? Cattle ranching. The billions of us have created a massive consumer demand for beef so that clearing land for cattle ranching is lucrative and with Bolsonaro in charge, now unstoppable.”

    So what action can we do ?
    Stop eating beef.


  5. Ed 5

    We need to stop eating meat in the quantities we do.
    Or the planet is doomed.

    “The researchers found a global shift to a “flexitarian” diet was needed to keep climate change even under 2C, let alone 1.5C. This flexitarian diet means the average world citizen needs to eat 75% less beef, 90% less pork and half the number of eggs, while tripling consumption of beans and pulses and quadrupling nuts and seeds. This would halve emissions from livestock and better management of manure would enable further cuts.

    In rich nations, the dietary changes required are ever more stark. UK and US citizens need to cut beef by 90% and milk by 60% while increasing beans and pulses between four and six times. However, the millions of people in poor nations who are undernourished need to eat a little more meat and dairy.”


  6. AB 6

    This may be an unworthy thought – but I keep having it. Are those two mountain guides dead at least in part because the Morgan family has too much money and can indulge itself at will?

    • gsays 6.1

      Since you asked, I think that is a tad harsh.

      • AB 6.1.1

        Yes – I guess you are right. Thanks.
        Somehow it seemed doubly sad to me that people die doing something as ultimately pointless as indulging the whims of others.

    • mauī 6.2

      Depends if they were taking undue risks I guess? Need someone with mountaineering knowledge to see if this was a typical hike, or a freak accident. Very sad nonetheless.

  7. cleangreen 7

    Our letter to Government today stating that our NZ Government must participate in this “first World Health air pollution conference this week in Geneva, in our interests to save our citizens health and wellbeing from health effects of all sources of air pollution.

    Protecting our environment & health.
    In association with other Community Groups, NHTCF and all Government Agencies since 2001.
    • Health and wellbeing.
    • East Coast Transport Project.

    Hon Phil Twyford – Minister of Transport.
    Hon’ Jacinda Ardern PM.
    Hon Winston Peters. Deputy PM.
    Hon’ Shane Jones. Minister of Regional Development.
    Hon’ Grant Robertson. Minister of Finance.
    Hon’ Stuart Nash. MP For Napier Wairoa/ Matawai regions.
    Hon’ Megan Woods. Minister of Energy.
    URGENT PRESS RELEASE; – ACTION NEEDED HERE BY – Transport Minister Twyford.

    1st November 2018.

    Dear Ministers, Local civic authorities & rail stakeholders,
    Subject; http://www.who.int/airpollution/events/conference/en/ First WHO Global Conference on Air Pollution and Health, 30 October – 1 November 2018
    What a “breath of fresh air WHO are as they finally take air pollution seriously” Bravo to World Health Organisation, (WHO).
    WHO are also are focusing on the urban residents who are also health effected by “toxic heavy road traffic air pollution” too.
    WHO are claiming that even schools and busy traffic routes be redesigned away from schools and suburban areas also.

    We have written to you all multiple times since becoming our new Government requesting to restore our railway to Gisborne that was damaged after a storm in March 2012; – and caused by a lack of rail funding maintenance in 2011 on after funding was cut by Minister of transport Steven Joyce; – http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1302/S00183/kiwirail-admits-lack-of-maintenance-led-to-wash-out.htm

    Rail services restoration will make a dramatic reduction of ‘road based freight’ now ruining our residential areas and the health of our urban communities.

    Now World Health Organisation (WHO) are holding a ‘first’ conference over several days in Geneva on ‘urban air quality health effects to humans finally so we need to observe and act in our residential communities best interests for their health and wellbeing, and we advocate all rail services be restored to our cities around NZ and truck routes be realigned away from our current locations wrongly placed close to residential areas such as Napier’s controversial ‘HB Expressway’ which was originally designated as a “commuter road for Hastings residents to get to the new Napier Airport in 1963”.

    Sadly the residents living alongside this road were not considered as to the effects to their health and wellbeing, but this road was pushed as a solution to become the principal truck freight route through Napier to the Port and the rest of NZ, without any resulting noise effects or air pollution mitigation was ever planned to be given the affected residents in the final stages of the HB Expressway’s development.

    Gisborne has the same issues of loss of rail and using heavy truck fleets to run right through Gisborne city to the Eastland port and destroying the health and wellbeing of its residents too.

    Open Mike 01/11/2018

    What a “breath of fresh air WHO are as they finally take air pollution seriously” Bravo to World Health Organisation, (WHO).
    WHO are also are focusing on the urban residents who are also health effected by “toxic heavy road traffic air pollution” too.
    WHO are claiming that even schools and busy traffic routes be redesigned away from schools and suburban areas also.
    First WHO Global Conference on Air Pollution and Health, 30 October – 1 November 2018
    Improving air quality, combating climate change – saving lives
    A schoolboy walks through smoke and fumes emitted from a waste dump in the Nigerian city of Port Harcourt
    Air Pollution is “the ‘new tobacco…” said Dr Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, WHO’s director general
    If you received an invitation to attend the conference and have not yet registered using the INDICO web portal, then please do so before as soon as possible. The link to the INDICO registration web portal can be found in the invitation email message.
    The first two days of the conference will present evidence, identify gaps and solutions, and will be targeted at practitioners and other technical and political representatives from the health sector and other sectors relevant to the discourse. The third day will be a High-Level Action Day.
    Conference provisional programme – updated 28 October
    pdf, 799kb
    Live webcast (active from 30 October 2018)
    Conference overview agenda
    pdf, 205kb
    Your response to our call is requested please email

    • SaveNZ 7.1

      @cleangreen, the NZ taxpayers are subsidising public organisations that subcontract to corporates that do things such as change from trolley buses to diesel and increasing emissions to the public for the next 10 years…http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=113048

      While in Auckland our taxes are there to escalate and provide for more polluting cruise ships, some of which apparently can release more emissions than 1million cars in emissions in one day.

      So as yet, NZ, not interested in worrying about air pollution. Apart from ways to tax end consumers of course and get that little extra tax in the pocket while pretending it was all to save the planet.

      The government and council treatment of corporate polluters and policy around that shows that air pollution is just not on the agenda and that the RMA is woefully inadequate to provide quality decisions, long term risk assessments, regulation , enforcement or penalty around environmental damage in this country.

  8. Cinny 8

    This type of hypocrisy really does my head in…..

    Re the war in Yemen….

    US defence chief demands Yemen ceasefire; peace talks in 30 days

    ‘James Mattis says the US has watched the bloody conflict ‘long enough’ and he wants ‘dropping of bombs’ to stop.’

    Meanwhile trump continues to sell weapons to the saudis so they can keep bombing Yemen.


    • BM 8.1

      This type of hypocrisy really does my head in.



      • SaveNZ 8.1.1

        @BM shocking the government are selling off more state land and NZ assets. Of course that does not excuse the Natz who demolished the state houses on it in 2015. The people of NZ are punched from the left and punched from the right. They seem to share the same neoliberal Thatcher driven sell off state housing and land, policies on housing.

      • crashcart 8.1.2

        Interesting conflation you have made there. I mean, I am sure your not deliberately diminishing the thousands who are being killed in Yemen by comparing it to local beltway politics. It sure does look that way though.

      • Cinny 8.1.3

        Did that action cause mass murder, genocide or starvation BM?

      • mac1 8.1.4

        So, the story is that a block of land in Auckland had a series of State houses demolished in 2015 and part of that land is being developed with new state houses. Another portion is to be sold.

        I quote the purpose as stated by the manager of the project from the the third of BM’s reference.

        “Housing New Zealand asset development general manager Patrick Dougherty said the development was not part of the KiwiBuild programme but part of the Auckland Housing Programme (AHP).

        The AHP started in June 2016 and will deliver 5200 new state homes and about 12,800 new affordable and market homes over 10 years.

        The sale of the 20 market sites would enable Housing New Zealand to build more state houses in other high demand parts of Auckland, he said.”

        Two things. First, the money goes towards providing more housing. It is after all houses that are required, not land.

        Secondly, since it is a stated intention by the Minister that the types of housing should be indistinguishable from the outside, it makes sense to me that the housing provided be of a ‘mixed’ style to avoid the stigmatisation of being a State House tenant. The former ‘pepperpot’ strategy of earlier decades was also expected to help the problem of stigmatising and slums.

        Well do I remember my school days of the Sixties when over the northern fence was “The Settlement”.

        • SaveNZ

          Aka Labour are selling off state land.

          But they could be developing all the land itself and then using the state controlled rents to keep rents down while paying off the debt over time.

          As in the UK examples, selling state housing and land to the private sector does not work, because the rising population demands more cheap rents and social housing to keep up with the population growth, and then the state rents start to rise because the state has less housing to work with to keep afloat and has to pay more to the private sector to rent the houses that they previously owned.

      • Visubversa 8.1.5

        The Mt Albert decision was made by the previous National government. It was subject to considerable public consultation at the time. The number of HNZ dwellings is about the same, and the extra land sales will fund further HNZ properties. HNZ could not get the density they needed with the zoning in Mt Albert.

  9. Rosemary McDonald 9

    Patients are still begging for Ministry of Health funding for high dose vitamin C infusions.

    Absolutely no doubt that vitamin C at the very least improves the quality of life for many cancer patients and research indicates that it can accentuate radiotherapy efficacy…so why not fund the stuff?

    Its not as if its expensive or demands superskills to administer.


    Or, could it be that our Beloved Misery is waiting for some enterprising start up to get their shit together and qualify for a license to profit….https://www.nzherald.co.nz/health/news/article.cfm?c_id=204&objectid=12152055


  10. It was a mere nine years ago this day that I wrote my first post for the Standard. It contains one of the most polarising, but accurate lines I have ever written:

    “To put it simply, you cannot be a socialist, a greenie or any kind of progressive and eat meat.”

    World Vegetarian Day October 1st

    Cheers to every Standarnista who skips the roast flesh today and big ups to Ed and others who occupy the moral high ground every day.

    Oh, and then there’s this, which I’ll dedicate to first bloke Clarke Gayford, NZ’s most prominent fish torturer:


    Better living, everyone!

    • Morrissey 10.1

      Good to see you care about animals. So what’s your take on governments hounding, terrorizing and imprisoning journalists?

      • te reo putake 10.1.1

        Like you, Moz, I’m all in favour. In my opinion, the best way to terrorize journalists is to write pointless and inaccurate transcripts of their shows and post them on the interwebs. That’ll show ’em.

        • Morrissey

          Not a serious answer. No surprises there.

          I note that you are overflowing in your praise of my transcripts and critiques whenever they align with your own thoughts.

    • Ad 10.2

      By no conscious decision other than living with a vegetarian I have nearly weaned myself off this year.

      Also getting rid of milk has helped get back to the weight I was at 30.

    • Tiger Mountain 10.3

      so true, what part of meat is to like really?
      Animal cruelty towards sentient beings, slaughter, worker exploitation, gross desensitising conditions for meatworkers, life long health issues, inefficient land use and other negative environmental and climate effects…

      …which for more and more people trump the fleeting pleasure some get from deadly chemical saturated processed meats, and charred slabs of “bogus bovis” beef which supermarkets are virtually giving away at the moment

      forsaking meat–you and the planet are worth it!

    • marty mars 10.4

      Good one. And I sorta agree but after 38 years yege I’ve got a bit more bias and a bit less judgment.

      Looking on that post I found this quote from me

      “Time to walk the green walk not just talk the green talk.”

      And today I wrote on the conference post

      “Time to get serious labour – walk the walk not just talk about it please.”

      Some things don’t change much…

    • Ed 10.5

      Thank you.
      It was an epiphany for me the day I discovered the amorality of eating animals.
      Like Ad, stopping eating meat and dairy sawxme shed the kilos.
      So it’s a decision for the sake of animals, for the sake of the environment and, as a side benefit, it’s good for your health !

  11. Morrissey 11

    “A self-administration of a death, which we’re calling ‘assisted dying.'”
    RNZ National, Thursday 1 November 2018, 9:10 a.m.

    This morning Kathryn Ryan employed her most serious, slow talking register, clearly enunciating every word to show how serious she is. One question she never asked was: Who’s going to “administer” this killing of the old and disabled and sick? The army? Will they bring back the institution of executioner?

    New research from the University of Otago shows a majority support some form of euthanasia or assisted dying in New Zealand – and those attitudes have remained relatively constant for the past 20 years. A group of researchers from the school of medicine at Otago have examined existing studies from the last 2 decades which asked people what they thought of euthanasia. Lead author, Jessica Young joins Kathryn to talk through the findings.


    • Crashcart 11.1

      Interesting question. I am sure they could get soldiers to do it. Perhaps just line them up and use them during weapons qualifying. Or… I know this is crazy but hear me out … it could be done by a doctor who is familiar with the patient and is aware of their needs.

      • gsays 11.1.1

        Yes that doctor would possibly be aware of the financial needs (and greed) of the family of the ‘patient’, ‘client’, ‘victim’…

      • Morrissey 11.1.2

        done by a doctor…


        Doctors can’t kill their patients.


        • Crashcart

          I didn’t realise Dr’s were still making the oath to Greek gods.

          There is a modern version https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/hippocratic-oath-today/.

          I note from the article only 14% of modern oaths prevent Euthanasia. The argument could be made that by swearing to do no harm a Dr would be required to meet a patients wishes to end suffering.

          I agree there are concerns around introduction of Euthanasia. The risk for abuse may mean that it really can’t be viably legalised. I of course wouldn’t make some ridiculous argument about having to get the military or executioners to carry out suicide assistance. Feel free to make a reasoned argument against though. I am always keen to learn.

  12. Johnr 12

    Full kudos to Iain Lees-Gallaway for recognising and openly stating, that he may have made an unsound decision over the Czech guy and is now proceeding to put it right.
    As opposed to the b.s. and bluster we’re hearing from Slimon Bridges.

    • BM 12.1

      Why was a criminal drug dealer currently in prison even considered eligible for permanent residency?

      There’s something super smelly about this.

      • Gabby 12.1.1

        Who knew Woodlouse and Lazy Galloway share a love of the noble art of kickboxdrugdealing BMmer?

    • SaveNZ 12.2

      They need to deport the drug lord asap. Also begs the question why the government granted the drug lord residency in NZ, when he had previously taken trips back to the EU?

      Will anybody be held to account, aka the person that compelled the report aka probably his lawyer missing out the pertinent facts??? Also the naivety of our government that falls for a sob story from known liars every time… while being hard of heart to their own people in tents or working 3 jobs to keep these drug lords in prison and the results of their crimes…

      • marty mars 12.2.1

        Weak. Stone him he is filth. Stone the filthy drug dealing out of him. Stone the drug lord but only after I’ve had a beer and some chaser preloads cos I throw straighter after a few – just ask my pets he he ha ha burp.


        • SaveNZ

          Weird, you are the only ones talking about stoning him. The Druglord can have lovely life back in the EU and NZ are well rid of him and hopefully the government can make sure he doesn’t come back under another false passport.

          Also he is just as likely, if not more, to be in danger from his drug mates in NZ for narking,( if that is how he managed to help grease his residency application here). Win win to get rid of him where he can be anonymous in the EU unlike in NZ where he is now very well known.

          • solkta

            you are the only ones talking about stoning him.

            Do you think Marty has a dissociative personality disorder?

            • SaveNZ

              Nope, do you? Save us from pop psychologists or people who have attended too much therapy and therefore feel the need to throw conditions around as insults instead of taking mental health seriously.

          • marty mars

            I’m using humour to show the frothy nature of your responses. The stoners are more stoned than the stonee being stoned for being stoned.

          • Sacha

            “narking,( if that is how he managed to help grease his residency application here)”

            Could be.

    • Chris T 12.3


      That is impressive

      Try to down play a complete balls up by Labour. While also making a dismal attempt to divert from the topic and criticise the opposition

      • Gabby 12.3.1

        When did the offending occur christy? When did he fly home for a visit?
        Slick Bodges is outraged at discovering the turd he deposited on the doorstep. Why hasn’t that been cleared up? It’s outrageous.

        • Cinny

          It’s almost like officials didn’t give Ian all the info at the time.

          Something feels off about this whole situation, feels like a set up by the nats.

          Why are the nats targeting this particular individual/case/situation?

          Especially after we discover the nat’s were happy to let some sex offenders stay in the country when they were in power.

          • SaveNZ

            Yep, apparently Eugenie Sage, didn’t feel there was any options apart from grant the Chinese the offshore water permits…. then looked like a hypocrite and fool and untrustworthy for doing so. I’m not sure how Ian made such a botch up on the drug lord residency, but labour campaigned on cleaning up immigration only to be caught granting it to a convicted criminal drug lord who enjoys trips back to his mates in the EU ???

            The message to politicians seems to be to WAKE up and do a bit of research themselves and stick to their guns, rather that look like untrustworthy hypocritical fools and rely on reports and advice that are not fit for purpose.

            • solkta

              You have an error in your first sentence. It should read:

              “To fools she looked like a hypocrite.”

              • SaveNZ

                @Solka, Greens campaign on not selling off overseas water rights then one of their MP’s signs off water rights once getting elected. I think you are the fool for not understanding what hypocrite means.

                • solkta

                  The Greens also campaigned and stand for good process. Changing laws under urgency is bad practice that the Greens were very vocal criticising National for. Passing retrospective legislation is extremely bad practice and contrary to the principles of natural justice.

                  They also need to work with their partners and at a pace that allows for competing legislative priorities.

                  AND, Eugenie did not take this action as a Green MP but as a Crown Minister who is obliged to follow the law.

                  As usual you just prattle on with your own bigoted view of things totally impervious to the actual details of the matter.

                  • SaveNZ

                    It is not the law to approve the application that is why it went to her. She approved it instead of stopping it. Its very simple.

                    Also after 1 year in office, where is the new laws on stopping practice, from the Greens?

                    • solkta

                      The Minister’s job is to make the final decision based on the law. It really is that simple.

                    • SaveNZ

                      It’s not the law. It was her subjective position that got the consent through.

                    • solkta

                      The whole point is that the Minister is supposed to be objective based on the law. The law as it stands does not allow for a subjective judgement.


                      1Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.
                      ‘his views are highly subjective’
                      Contrasted with objective

                • Draco T Bastard

                  You’re the fool who doesn’t understand how the rule of law works.

              • Robert Guyton

                I’m with solkta and well expressed that … solkta!
                Really, SaveNZ? Eugenie, selling out at the first opportunity?
                Hardly. Have you met the woman? Not a sell-out, by any stretch of (your) imagination.

          • Gabby

            I wonder if the official who didn’t disclose all the info, disclosed that fact to a slick bodger mate.

        • Chris T

          I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about

          What turd?

      • ScottGN 12.3.2

        Nats have played one of their get-out-of-jail-free cards.

        • mac1

          First, they must pass “Go” and pay their street repairs bill.. There is also a small matter of the sale of the railway stations and the electric utilities!

      • mac1 12.3.3

        Mrs Mac1 told me that Guyon Espiner on RNZ this morning really put Simon Bridges and his bluster firmly in place.

        Along the lines of
        Espiner-“Well, in your time in office you didn’t deport the man.”
        Bridges- “Well, the Minister acted on the advice given.”
        Espiner- “Well, what’s different, now?”

        And the bit I heard at the end- again well-paraphrased.
        Espiner-“You want the Minister to resign. Will Mr Woodhouse resign?”
        Bridges- “But he’s not the Minister.”
        Espiner-“Will he resign as the shadow Minister?”
        Bridges-“Rant rant rant”

        Bridges never ‘heard’ the Espiner call for Woodhouse’s resignation even though he made it twice.

        Chris T, a dismal attempt to attack the government and divert criticism of his own time in power, in all its lacking.

        • SaveNZ

          Lets face it, the Natz helped with policy decisions to keep the drugs moving into NZ, created one of the highest immigration in the world for nearly a decade of low skilled people coming here to work in supermarkets, and bakeries and then created committees to put forward policy to evict tenants on Meth tests, and create the shock doctrine housing crisis….

          … meanwhile Labour and Greens were blind to it and campaigned on higher taxes, middle class rental standards for people who can’t even afford rental with the above climate created by the Natz, and legalising drugs (Greens)… then they wonder why people can’t choose who to vote for????

          • marty mars

            People with your view make this country unsafe imo. Drugs are rife idiot. At every sector and height in society. That is why it is a health issue imo. You’d chuck people in jail and that EXPANDS the drug relationships with criminals. Wake up like your name says.

            • SaveNZ

              Actually I’m suggesting deport the drug lord, not have our taxes and judicial system spending hundreds of thousands on his prison stay and sentencing, and any further ones, based on his current crime record, it’s not going to be the last time Kiwi tax payers will support his arse in prison where as you say, the prison system “EXPANDS the drug relationships with criminals”.

              Now they have the benefit of EU drug lords helping the expansion, yippee!

        • veutoviper

          That Espiner/Bridges interview is a Must Listen, IMO.

          It is the hardest I have ever seen Espiner go on Bridges and raised some excellent questions and points that need to be followed up.

          Here is the link.


          Am just listening to the midday news, and there is a lot still to go on this issue.

          Question Time today has only one question on it from Woodhouse to Lees-Galloway. There are no questions from Bridges or Bennett to the PM or Deputy PM so it is probable that neither Bridges or Bennett will be in the House.

        • ianmac

          Yes mac1. I heard Bridges stammer and dodge. He had the gall to say, ” The Minister cannot become a detective and go out and detect.”
          But says Guyon, “How is that different from the present case?”
          Mumble, deflect mumble.
          Very funny Simon.

    • gsays 12.4

      I agree on the kudos to the minister.

      However his reasoning made a mockery of Winston the day before at question time.
      Winston made a lot out of Galloway making the decision himself, rather than relying/blaming officials.

      • mac1 12.4.1

        Remember, gsays, that Peters made a lot of the Minjster’s decision making by comparing it to the previous government which after 2014 gave the responsibility away to the officials. In this case, Minister Lees-Galloway acted on advice given by officials who did not have for whatever reason the same information that became available to National. That the decision was made by Lees-Galloway was Peter’s point. The quality of advice is another issue and does not reflect at all upon Peters.

        • gsays

          Fair enough.
          Today’s mentioning of the officials as part of a ‘reconsideration’ jarred with the ‘vibe’ I picked up from ‘Winston’ at QT.

      • Enough is Enough 12.4.2

        The PM and her deputy have been made to look like fools over this.

        They both arrogantly and smuggly defended the decision on Tuesday. By Wednesday “new evidence” was discovered which reopened the case.

        Tomorrow the decision will be reversed to get this out of the headlines next week.

        What a monumental cluster fuck and embarrassing u turn.

        • marty mars

          It’s actually not that bad – you’re catastrophying it imo.

          • Enough is Enough

            Not really

            One of National’s attack lines since day 1 has been this government is soft on crime. Why feed into that narrative by giving them an example like this on a plate.

            Australia exports criminals who have lived in Australia their whole lives. New Zealand imports lying fraudulent drug dealers. That is what the National trolls will be yelling as a result of this cock up.

            • Drowsy M. Kram

              That’s not a cock up. This is a cock up.

              “It dawned on me, ‘I know this script, I helped write this script.’ At that point, I felt bad for what I did to Todd. But that’s the modus operandi of the National Party – when people become a liability you push them out the door.”

            • marty mars

              Yep good points.

            • McFlock

              Which is exactly why the nats abrogated responsibility to the ministry for several years.

              You get the big pay packet, you make the hard call.

              The only real problem is that the increased publicity seems to have uncovered the contradictory information, which in turn could well make it look like the minister caved under pressure rather than simply acting on information received.

        • SaveNZ

          At least there is hope they will u turn and make sure that the embarrassment goes away, rather than have him served up next election as the government being the reason he is one of our new residents.

        • Gabby

          No decent human being should ever defend an action as ‘maintaining the integrity of the process’ nuffy nuffy, be his/her arse ever so smooth.

    • Jimmy 12.5

      Iain has made a complete idiot of himself. Would love a photo of him to appear hiding behind the pillar to avoid reporters.
      The Czech needs to leave the country immediately.

  13. SaveNZ 13

    I’m not following the Kiwibuild story as too depressing, but someone told me that the couple in the media who got ballot for the house, are a final year doctor who stands to make a lot of money in the future and they got a 4 bedroom house, when they are just a couple.

    Good luck to the people as it is very hard to get a house and they are probably riddled with student debts and being a doctor is of great benefit to society, but it does seem a bit sad that those 3 extra bedrooms will be empty when there are families with a lot more kids living in one bedroom emergency housing, that could have benefited from those extra bedrooms and a new secure house.

    And I would have preferred my taxes spent on helping families renting and state housing and land still owned by the state for future generations, rather than helping better resourced people up the property ladder.

    Even if the land was leasehold to the state, it would have been better. Maybe removing his student loans in return for staying in NZ for 10 years might also be of more benefit to the public than a house that they can sell in 3 years.

    • BM 13.1

      Surprise, KiwiBuy working the way everyone thought it would.

      That lovely young couple were bragging on the news hub facebook page about making 50 k already.

      People took offence to that and went on the attack, that’s why they deleted their social media accounts, nothing to do with Judith Collins.

      Not that you’d ever read that on such unbiased media outlets like TVNZ and Radio Pravda.

    • Sacha 13.2

      “those 3 extra bedrooms will be empty” – doesn’t it seem way more likely they will have some boarders?

    • Molly 13.3

      “I’m not following the Kiwibuild story as too depressing”
      With you there savenz. The argument for the cheerleading seems to be be, – well National created the mess…

      Pretty low bar, and even that is not easily cleared, given the previous Clark government had the wheels in motion for the current house crisis.

      • Rosemary McDonald 13.3.1

        Folk have really short memories Molly.

        I’ve yet to see compelling evidence that this current manifestation of the New Zealand Labour Party is appreciably different.

        • I feel love

          Politics of envy, NZs talkback radio fav fodder, tall poppy syndrome etc… divide and conquer, one doesn’t dare stick ones head above the parapet, esp if one wins a KB raffle, how dare they!!! Nek minute, Collins claims innocent, well her fan proxies do…

          • SaveNZ

            @ I feel love, The point is, should tax payer money and state land be a raffle? Or should it be means tested and fairly apportioned based on need?

            • solkta

              But there is no taxpayer money involved. The houses are sold at cost.

              • SaveNZ

                They are giving away free prime state house land as part of the deal. They could retain both the houses and land for the state and future generations. Instead they are doing financial engineering and doublespeak which clearly fools quite a few so called leftie supporters of the Thatcher based scheme, but not all.

                • solkta

                  They are not giving anything away. It doesn’t cost $650,000 to build one of those houses.

                  The site is ex-defense force and has never been state housing.

                  • SaveNZ

                    when it suits the right wingers and woke lefties house prices are so high because of the cost of the land, (not lazy immigration in fact we need more immigration because who is going to build the houses cheaply the, the Kiwis are drugged out hopeless types) , however it seems to suit woke lefties to now say that state land is not needed for state housing and rightfully given away in return for middle class housing with all the mod cons… a percentage sold off raffle style to those on $180k and without children in a 4 bedroom house.

                    Clearly logic was at work. I understand the right wingers being on board with the privatisation of state land, but the woke lefties seem just as eager.

                    And they say, the voters are stupid….

                    • solkta

                      rightfully given away

                      Nothing has been given away. Spinning yourself around in circles won’t change that fact.

                    • SaveNZ

                      Approx 2/3 of the land is no longer owned by the public and according to the woke lefties and righties once upon a time, they said it was the land that was worth all the money. Now suddenly the land is not worth much and they will swap it for building 1/3 houses.

                      Confused. Well I guess that’s he point but it all end up as state assets sell offs, disguised.

                      Now somehow the state no longer owns 2/3 of it’s valuable land because it has been non transparently taken through third parties and the state is left with approx 1/3 of the land it once had often with a similar amount of state houses it once had.

                      And the houses built are only affordable for the top 40% of people who would have got a house anyway.

                    • solkta

                      Yes i think you are confused. I can’t make sense of any of that.

                    • Gabby

                      Wokey savey? That a Star Wars thingy?

      • SaveNZ 13.3.2

        +1 Molly

    • JC 13.4

      “Over the next 10 years, 100,000 “affordable” homes will be built around the country.

      But they’re not for low-income people, they’re not a gift from taxpayers and – in the end, anyway – the price the houses sell for is not the most important aspect of the scheme.

      Here are five common myths about KiwiBuild.” ;


      This piece may go someway to cover a few misconceptions ….

      • ianmac 13.4.1

        JC: “But they’re not for low-income people, they’re not a gift from taxpayers and – in the end, anyway – the price the houses sell for is not the most important aspect of the scheme.”
        The Kiwibuild could never help people under say $40,000. Never intended to. The rebuilding of State houses are the best option for the working poor.

  14. Morrissey 14

    Imagine if Donald Trump was a rock star

    He’d be named Gene, and he’d be even worse than he is now….


    • mac1 14.1

      I’d hate to be a musician in his band. The lead singer (what else?) wouldn’t listen to the band, he’d have a different drummer in his head, and the songs (who else would be permitted to write them?) would be disassociated ramblings full of the first person singular.

      Wonder what the band would be called? Probably none. Full billing to the lead singer only. No lead breaks for the guitarist and as for the vocal chorus, we won’t go there.

      How many members of the family would be involved? What style of music? A little mix of punk, country, and hillbilly, but no blues, Mex or reggae for sure.

      And guess who’d own the venues he played at?

  15. veutoviper 15


    On RNZ Nine to Noon there were two very interesting interviews on education.

    The first was with Hamish Brewer, a NZer who “now calls Virginia home where his mission is to turn around ailing schools. He is tattooed, he skateboards and he tells the students he loves them, in case no one else in their lives is telling them that. Hamish has won many awards and given speeches about his work.”

    This guy was compelling in a “Ted Talks” way – which I don’t usually connect with. We really should be getting him back here, even if just temporarily, for some good ‘out of the box’ thinking. He was actually very supportive of the education he received here and the NZ system overall, but he certainly could give some educators here a bit of a shake-up.


    Calling marty mars and other home schoolers (or those interested in home schooling) in relation to the second interview.

    I recommend listening to it if you didn’t hear it. It was with Natalie Donaldson and Siobhan Porter, both part of Auckland Home Educators, a support and advocacy group for parent educators. They have five children each and have home-schooled them all.


    {As an aside but also in relation to this morning’s Nine to Noon, the description of the interview with Jessica Young, University of Otago, at 11 above on attitudes to assisted dying earlier on in the programme was well off the mark. The interview did cover the restrictions etc on who could carry out or assist in an assisted death in detail – the person themself or a doctor, but not family members. ]


    • Antoine 15.1

      Ta. Forwarding


    • Morrissey 15.2

      I assume one “veutoviper” is referring to my contribution at 9:25 am when he/she writes:

      As an aside but also in relation to this morning’s Nine to Noon, the description of the interview with Jessica Young, University of Otago, at 11 above on attitudes to assisted dying earlier on in the programme was well off the mark.

      How was I “off the mark” in pointing out the deceitful, anodyne language used (“self-administration of a death”) and the fact that Kathryn Ryan had failed to ask the obvious question, viz., Who is going to kill these people?

      The interview did cover the restrictions etc on who could carry out or assist in an assisted death in detail – the person themself [sic] or a doctor, but not family members.

      Doctors take an oath to look after people. “Look after” is not a synonym for “kill”.

      • veutoviper 15.2.1

        She DID ask the question you claim she didn’t raise. As I said above, the answer was that the only people who would legally be allowed to carry out or assist in an assisted death would be the person themselves and/or a doctor; no-one else including family members would be allowed to.

        But par for the course for you. Perhaps we (and Kiwiblog) should set up a Give A Little page for hearing aids for you.

        • Morrissey

          the answer was that the only people who would legally be allowed to carry out or assist in an assisted death

          To “carry out an assisted death” is a deceitful, euphemistic way of saying “to kill a dying person.” I am correct when I state that Ms. Ryan accepted this distortion of plain language, and failed to ask the pertinent question.

          would be the person themselves [sic] and/or a doctor

          Doctors take an oath to look after their patients. Palliative care, as in a hospice is assisting the dying; it is a world away from putting someone to death.

          I’ll skip your witless little sortie into personal abuse.

          • solkta

            Leaving someone in agony for the sake of it is not a caring thing.

            • Morrissey

              And killing that person is?

              That option is refuted by palliative care doctors and nurses.

              • solkta

                When i see a bird dying in my garden i put a spade through its neck. When my old dog was so close to death that he was just suffering i took him for a final visit to the vet. These things to most people seem humane and sensible. When i do these things i feel like i am caring.

  16. AsleepWhileWalking 16

    WOO HOO!

    Letting fees are toast 😀

  17. joe90 17

    Cracker read for aviation tragics and fearful fliers.

    15:30:21 Capt got any ideas?
    15:30:23 F/O actually not.
    15:30:38 Capt we’re gonna brace.


  18. eco maori 18

    Some Eco Maori Music For The Minute

  19. eco maori 19

    This is hope fully a good out come for the common people of Yemen Peace and diplomacy is what is best for All Kia kaha

    It has taken three years, 14 million people on the brink of starving to death and 10,000 dead civilians before the US finally asked for the chaos in Yemen to stop.

    But it may be too late for the impoverished Arab nation, which borders Saudi Arabia, as it faces effectively being wiped off the Earth as more than half its population starve due to a sickening Saudi war tactic.

    It was already one of the world’s poorest countries before a brutal civil war began in 2015 when rebel Houthi fighters seized the presidential compound in the country’s capital Sana’a and overthrew the government. Ka kite ano Link is below.


  20. eco maori 20

    New Neighbour the last lot were sandflys contracted Actors and now it looks like a single wahine is moving in she will be a sandfly payed actor trying to set me up I know they are listening to everything in the house the perverts . So if anything happen its a sandfly set up. The muppets will try anything Ka kite ano

  21. eco maori 21

    Eco Maori Give A ka pai to the Google employees who have made a stand to back up there wahine employees Equality is what the new generation wants and need.
    We not stupid Equality for all and environmentally friendly.Hundreds of Google engineers and other workers around the world walked off the job Thursday (Friday NZ time) to protest the internet company’s lenient treatment of executives accused of sexual misconduct.Kia kaha people ka kite ano link is below.


  22. eco maori 22

    Eco Maori did warn MP that there staff could be pro national and set them up and the immigration issue that Labour is having at the minute sure looks like a SET UP JOB.
    ‘ looking like the Government has made an embarrassing stuff-up over the controversial decision to allow a Czech criminal to stay in the country after he finishes his prison sentence. SET UP Ka kite ano link is below. P.S I will give the turned lefty a bit of a ——–


  23. Eco Maori 23

    I say trump and the gop are going to need a huge box of tissue in about 5 days


  24. Eco Maori 24

    Kia ora Te Kaea the water isuses I say we need to audit all country’s council and legerslate to make them clean up our water.
    That was awesome that the sights of the Southern right whale off Ohope Bay of plenty.
    The Maori All Blacks will have a good team playing in Chicago this weekend.
    Ka kite ano P.S Maori does some thing wrong no name suppression it’s gets plastered in the media???????.

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