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Open mike 01/05/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, May 1st, 2012 - 58 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

58 comments on “Open mike 01/05/2012 ”

  1. Latest Digipoll

    Labour up 7 to 34.8%, National down 2.8% to 48.1%, the rot has set in for the tories …

    • Te Reo Putake 1.1

      Only a 7% rise? Pathetic. Sack Shearer now! Only Cunliffe can save us now. Or Little. Or Parker. Or maybe someone new like, er, Shearer. 
      Still, note the remarkable rise of United Future. From nowhere to a massive 0.7%. Must be all those MOMs hoping that Peter Dunne will ignore his electorate and do his master’s bidding instead.

      • mickysavage 1.1.1

        Hehe There is nothing more politically invigorating and no better way to strengthen a party’s leadership than a good poll …

        • Pete George

          I can understand the invigorating bit, now for the unifying and rebuilding.

          Is the New Lynn Labour Party experimental website a Cunliffe/Presland initiative?
          Is it sanctioned and approved by New Zealand Labour? By Labour Party leadership?
          Is “nationbuilding” just a coincidental name of software being used?
          Is it deliberately provocative? Or is that accidental? Or Naive?

          • mickysavage

            Petey it was completely my own initiative and it is not part of some grand conspiracy to bring down western civilization.

            There was a rather big clue if you actually looked at the site it said “It is a prototype at this stage so we can try out Nationbuilder software.”  And every time I posted a link it said “prototype”.

            And if you knew anything about the interweb thingy you would realise that the hosting site was http://www.nationbuilder.com

            It was none of the above.

            Good attempted smear though.  

            I saw your efforts on the sewer.  You have really made me reconsider the merits of blogs.

            • Ant

              Seems fairly out of line with other polls, will be good when a few more are out that back it up or show a similar trend.

            • Pete George

              Presumably you must have had Cunliffe’s approval at least?

              • McFlock

                wow – do you get Dunne’s approval every time you post?
                He must have his approval on an autoreply, and thought you were a National party rep.

    • Pete 1.2

      I wrote in February:

      The jury is still out on Shearer, as far as I’m concerned. If Labour can consistently poll around the 35% mark by the end of 2012, then I will consider him a success.

      I’m pleased. Give me a few more results like this poll and I will be firmly in Team Shearer.

    • ianmac 1.3

      Rewarding news. Will add support to Mr Salmond’s views in his Pundit post.
      If an Election was held today the Maori Party would be in a powerful position given that Audrey has included them in the National camp for now.
      Interesting that Winston was 3rd ranked for PM.

  2. Just Julie 2

    Fantastic way to start May Day !

  3. Last week’s debate in euthanasia in Dunedin was opened with a presentaion by Tom Noakes-Duncan of a paper he recently completed on the topic. It’s an excellent look at many aspects of the topic.

    Voluntary Euthanasia in New Zealand:
    An Analysis of Compassion, Autonomy, and Secularism in the Public Sphere

    In the wake of the recent case of Sean Davison the question has resurfaced once again of whether voluntary euthanasia should be legally and morally accepted in New Zealand. This paper will survey the debate surrounding voluntary euthanasia as it has been presented in the media and by leading advocates. Arguments for compassion in the face of an inhumane medical practice, the right to self-determination to control one’s death, and society’s progression away from religious prohibitions receive particular attention. Drawing on the narrative traditions of “Jesus the healer” and their influence on medicine the arguments put forth by voluntary euthanasia advocates will be analysed in the attempt to show what contribution Christian theology could make to this public debate.

    Anyone seriously interested in the discussion on euthanasia in New Zealand should find this a worthwhile read.

    • David H 3.1

      So why does the link only go to your rotten site?? Where’s the proper site? So that people can make their own choices and not have to rely on your drivel?

      • Bill 3.1.1

        Only one of Pete’s sites? You weren’t trying hard enough I tell’s ye! I got a revolving door between ‘your dunedin’ and ‘yournz’ – which has Pete’s email as the contact for ‘us’…whoever ‘us’ might be.

        But could I find an original source where the pdf came from? Nope.

        • Pete George

          Why the obsession with “the proper site”? This is pathetic. If I engraved the text into stone and chucked it on your front lawn you’d probably complain about my fingerprints being on it.

          The PDF was emailed to me by Tom, I can’t link to an email so I saved a copy onto YourNZ.

          I’d asked Tom if the paper could be made available online because I thought it was an excellent resource in the debate. He was happy to provide it.

          I put both the full text on the blog post and a link to the PDF so you can choose which way you’d prefer to read it. Otherwise stop moaning and contact Tom yourself.

          • Pete George

            Bill, I put links to it on YourDunedin because since the debate I’m getting a lot of search hits and regular traffic on euthanasia there. I linked so as not to duplicate it.

            • Bill

              So you linked between two sites you maintain to save duplication? Is that what you’re saying? btw. Just being curious. But the ‘us’ on yournz, who are they?

          • Bill

            Thankyou for that Pete. After doing a bit of searching I’d concluded that you’d basically got a hold of his piece and put it up ;-). But…if there had been a primary source for the document, then the primary source should be given, don’t you think? Context is everything.

            • Pete George

              The primary source is Tom. I heard him present it and thought it would be good for the debate online. I searched for it online and couldn’t find it. So I emailed Tom and asked if was available online, and if not I was happy to make it available. He emailed me a DOC of it and said “Pete Hi, Its okay by me for you to put this full version of my paper up on your website. Regards, Tom”.

              So as far as I know YourNZ is the only online source.

              I thought people would either appreciate being able to read it, or they would ignore it. I didn’t expect to be criticised for making it available, so I didn’t expect to have to make a full and detailed history of getting it online.

              I use YourNZ and YourDunedin to try and provide information and promote discussion and debate, and a means of providing more detail on siome things so I don’t clog up other people’s blogs.

              “Us” is anyone (within reason) who’s interested in posting there – are you interested?

              • Bill

                Yes Pete, I think I understand that the primary source is Tom. He was named as the author afterall. But you know I was referring to principle on-line sources. (Not in this instance, because – repeating myself here for your benefit – I’d already concluded it didn’t exist elsewhere on-line.)

                What I asked was whether you agreed that where a principle on-line source exists that it, and not some secondary source should be linked to?

                Oh yes. That and whether there was any information pertaining to the ‘us’ of yournz?

                • What I asked was whether you agreed that where a principle on-line source exists that it, and not some secondary source should be linked to?

                  If all you are using is the primary source then yes, it’s best to link directly to that.

                  But when more than one source is used, or if comments, opinions, graphics etc are added then it’s normal to link to that, with links to the primary sources where applicable.

                  That’s very very very common practice with many blogs, including the Standard. I usually follow that practice.

                  I also use my blog posts when I have more detail than is deemed appropriate in someone elses blog, and summarise and link.

                  I often get clobbered for any of that here – and others who link with little or no added content often don’t get criticised. That’s the nature of the blog.

                  • McFlock

                    FWIW, this is one of the few times I think you justifiably linked to your blog.
                    The only (minor) suggestion I’d make is a couple of lines to indicate that the article was provided by request, a bit like the ones here for Imperatorfish crossposts or guest posts.

  4. bad12 4

    Another media manipulation of the democratic process put out by ‘granny Herald’,we still see in this latest piece a manipulation of the %s using the margin of error to boost Nationals polling while using the same margin of error to lower the % of some of the opposition party’s…

    • Nick 4.1

      Its OK, the actual election results indicate that the left gets up to 5% more votes compared to the slanted polls. The Right will be shitting themselves.

      • bad12 4.1.1

        It may be Ok in terms of the votes for the ‘left’ on the day,but such media manipulation of ‘polls’ strikes at the heart of democracy,

        Another 6% of enrolled voters did not vote in the 2011 election,2% of those enrolled voters when questioned have stated that ‘the done deal’ nature of what such ‘polling’ showed them leading up to the 2011 election deterred them from voting,

        That simply shows that the main stream media has an effect on the out-come of elections simply by printing such manipulated polling…

        • ianmac

          Yeah. “They” are going to win so why bother voting. Mind you, it is a bit slack to think like that.

          • Colonial Viper

            Labour voters are undependable at the best of times. Voter suppression campaigns against them are easy as.

          • Colonial Viper

            ban media discussion of polling results for the 72 hours before election day. Make the last 3 days about the issues and the priorities, not the polling crystal ball gazers.

            • Vicky32

              ban media discussion of polling results for the 72 hours before election day. Make the last 3 days about the issues and the priorities, not the polling crystal ball gazers.


    • Uturn 4.2

      Opinion Polls = Horoscopes.

  5. Logie97 5


    Supposed to be the elite of New Zealand

    Look what it has thrown up in the past 3 parliaments

    Worth, Hyde, Banks …

    The voters in that electorate must be so proud of themselves.

    • muzza 5.1

      “The voters in that electorate must be so proud of themselves”

      — Actually what it shows is that there is no self respect in that area, but they are by no means unique. Electorates having voting patters, Epsom see itself as right, and hence votes ACT. Really they must just see themselves in contempt, or more likely that they are mostly knee deep in muck themselves, and vote in ways that they believe will allow them to hold onto their perception of “elite”. Maggy Barry being elected is another fine example of traditional voting.

      It can be applied accross the board though, which is why politics has now become totally irrelevant due its total contempt for our country, and the people in it. Quite why people feel the need to believe that politics is important, and hand their well being over to it, or their energy is facinating!

      • Logie97 5.1.1

        I was commenting on the calibre of MPs who have fallen (are falling) from grace and we can add to that Doug Graham

  6. ak 6

    Ae, Mick – ivigorating’s right: now settle back and watch Greece, France and good old Blighty this week and be prepared for more fun – and that’s even without looking at Holland Spain Italy or half a dozen other austerity victims and their citizens’ awakening, not to mention uncle Sam come November.

    Big year for Progression coming up. The year of the Shearer mayhap, provided we remember one thing.

    That only infighting can defeat us.

    • Colonial Viper 6.1

      If there is a real progressive politics on offer from one of the parties, let’s here about it. To me, a hell of a lot of the infighting is occurring because there isn’t.

  7. CB 8

    I am pleased that NZ is finally seeing what’s behind John Key’s smile. The money trader is emerging especially in regard to his comments about ethics having such ‘broad definitions’. We all know what happens when the traders get power don’t we? The teaparty has come back to bite the Nats on the bum.

    • Bored 8.1

      Shonkers was always a creature of Boag and ACT, placed strategically when the foolish Doctor Dribble was found to be unelectable. There to do the bidding of the moneyed classes. Now the whole show is wobbling precariously they are in a real hurry to do the damage before they are ejected…assets anybody? Cheap as John can make them.

  8. Bored 10

    Its been a bit of a troll free zone this morning: Gos? Jimmy Dipstick? What goes on? I suspect they are all back at HQ getting instructions as soon as the NACT spin doctors and Whale have got hymn and verse aligned. Come on guys, were are awaiting your excuses for the inexcusable .

    • bad12 10.1

      Defending the indefensible is the province of the truly truly stupid and they appear loath to openly provide us all with such blatant proof,

      The only staunch defender of the faith this morning appears to be the overcoat changer marginally in the pocket of the ‘Hairdo from Ohariu’,until such time that is where he can shuffle off quietly to sensibly provide His inconsiderable support to another political cause…

  9. alwyn 11

    A rather different subject.
    I was absolutely fascinated to see Gareth Hughes press release on Sunday blaming the Government for the death of a Maui’s dolphin and demanding the banning of all set-net fishing in the Taranaki area.
    Clearly Gareth must be a brilliant fellow if he can identify it as a Maui’s dolphin given that.
    1. The DOC people who collected the carcase of a dolphin didn’t know what kind it was.
    2. The people who carried out the post-mortem on the carcase don’t know what kind it was.
    3. Specimens are to be subject to DNA analysis to try and determine the species.
    Can the Green’s boy wonder please tell us how he could determine the species without even seeing it when the supposed experts can’t, even with the body in their possession?

    • bad12 11.1

      How bizaare of you to split such hairs in such an ineffective manner,what is not known about that particular dead dolphin is it is a Maui dolphin or a Hector dolphin,

      Both species of dolphins are in danger of extinction with the Maui dolphin being marginally in front in the race to the back door with its cousin the Hector dolphin,

      Green MP Hughs was right to call for the banning of set nets in the only area in the world where these threatened species are known to breed and inhabit,

      The equation is simple even to the most dull, kill many more Maui and Hector dolphins in set nets and both species will become extinct, versus, ban set netting in the domain of the Maui and Hector dolphin and how many Humans will starve,

      Ummm none!!!…

      • alwyn 11.1.1

        If he meant a Hector OR a Maui dolphin why doesn’t he say so. Why be specific and repeatedly refer to one species when you simply don’t know? He used the words “Maui’s dolphin” no fewer than seven times in his press release.
        You appear to be suggesting that this dolphin was killed in a set net. As the post-mortem showed it wasn’t but don’t let that stop you claiming it.
        Gareth at least didn’t claim that it had been killed by a set-net as he said that “regardless of how it died” but he then went on to rave about set nets.
        I am always curious by the way about people who worry about any species becoming extinct. Do you, for example, hold that we should not allow ANY living species to become extinct because of out actions?

        • bad12

          The last 2 paragraph of my post at 12.58pm answer the particular red herring you have dragged across the debate…

  10. Lanthanide 12


    But the Government was determined to lower the cost of the overall loan scheme to taxpayers.

    Key said on student loans, the Government had managed to reduce the effective write-off of loans from 49 per cent to 45 per cent.

    It intended to get that down to closer to 40 per cent by continuing to chase overseas borrowers and the faster repayment of loans once people finished their study.

    “We will have more to say on this as we lead into the Budget.”

    Looks like they’ll be changing the repayment criteria. I wouldn’t be surprised if they introduced an additional band of 15% repayments. At the moment it’s simply 10% of all income over $19,084 and that figure is fixed until 2015 (it used to gradually creep up every year).

  11. Draco T Bastard 13

    I/S has been doing more on his Crony Watch:-

    So there you have it. Collins saw an opening, saw a crony, and matched one with the other, over-riding all proper government processes to do so.

    There corruption of this government is really starting to shine through.

  12. McFlock 14

    I see Judith Collins’ sick joke about double bunking seems to have come true. 19yo prisoner on remand. 
    Here’s a question for them that be lawyers – a prison is a workplace, so shouldn’t hazardous practises like double-bunking be prevented because they endanger the prisoners?

  13. weka 15

    So how exactly does one make an anonymous donation to a political party? Short of bags of cash, or using someone else to make the donation, how can it be anonymous?

  14. John72 17

    The problem of establishing what we are and are not responsible for is one of the greatest problems of this life. We never completely answer the question of responsibilty as our life changes from day to day, so we must continually reassess where our responsibilities lie in the ever changing course of events. Unfortunatualy, this reassessment is not painless if performed carefully and conscientiously because in order to do it adequately we must be prpared to suffer continual self-examination. The capacity for self-examination is not inherent in most of us. As an example, watch two children fighting or arguing. Neither will admit that they might be the culprit. The other party is always at fault. When do adults mature enough to see that they are not perfect and perhaps some of the cause might lie with them? Is it possible that many never mature enough to be able to see that they might be at fault, even if they can not understand why?
    “Every one be queer, except Thee and I, and even Thee be a bit.”
    When did the people in the P. of A. dispute last offer themselves true, sincere, self-examination?

  15. joe90 18

    Unexceptionalism: A Primer

    Using the state of war as justification, order secret surveillance of American citizens, data mine their phone calls and e-mail, make business, medical and public library records available to government agencies, perform illegal warrantless searches of homes and offices.

    Take to torturing terrorism suspects, here or abroad, in violation of the Eighth Amendment of the Constitution, which prohibits the infliction of cruel and unusual punishment. Unilaterally abrogate the Convention Against Torture as well as the Geneva Conventions regarding the treatment of prisoners of war. Commit to indeterminate detention without trial those you decide are enemies. For good measure, trust that legislative supporters will eventually apply this policy as well to American citizens.

    Suspend progressive taxation so that the wealthiest pay less proportionately than the middle class. See to it that the wealth of the country accumulates to a small fraction of the population so that the gap between rich and poor widens exponentially.

  16. John72 19

    joe90, Out of respect to yourself and your reader, would you please start with a sentence or two that introduces your post and (or) describes what it is about, then finish the post with a summary of some nature? It would clarify my thoughts and yours. Regards.

    • locus 19.1

      Each to their own John72. I kind of like Joe90’s hands off approach. The links I’ve followed have all been well written and/or thought provoking, and usually the argument or position is clear within the first few lines.

  17. xtasy 20

    Never forget:


    El primero de Mayo, viva el movimento pupular!

  18. rosy 21

    Awesome, awesome May Day parade in the sun in Vienna this morning.

    Half the city wearing red, carrying red flowers and red balloons, speeches in the square and dozens of groups marching from the Opera House, past parliament and on to the town square. Along with the communists/socialists, anti-capitalists, were quite large groups of people marching against dictatorial States and highlighting human rights abuses. The local issue of the moment appears to be ‘education not for sale’.

    The Viennese use every day they can as an excuse to celebrate, party, or otherwise recognise something. The really impressive thing is it is accepted to be part of May Day celebrations. In NZ they’d be the ‘loony left, hippies and greenies’ /sarc. Helps of course, that Vienna is run by the Socialist Party (SPO) and since the end of WW1 pretty much always has been (apart from when it was banned by the Fascists).

  19. rosy 22

    A brief history of May Day as the international day for workers in Europe.

    May Day is international workers day. As such, it is – in the words of Eric Hobsbawm – “the only unquestionable dent made by a secular movement in the Christian or any other official calendar”

    The origin of our present holiday lies in the fight for an eight-hour working day, in which cause the leaders of the socialist Second International called for an international day of protest to be held at the beginning of May 1890. They did so just as the American Federation of Labour was planning its own demonstration on the same date. The UK protest actually took place on a Sunday, and in London alone attracted 300,000 protesters to Hyde Park.

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