Open mike 01/09/2012

73 comments on “Open mike 01/09/2012 ”

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1. Carol 1

   1 September 2012 at 8:04 am

   I keep seeing reports in the MSM about Kiwi successes in the Paralympics. Yet none of the games seem to be shown on FTA TV….. is it on somewhere/time I’ve missed?
   • Te Reo Putake 1.1

     1 September 2012 at 8:13 am

     Sadly, there doesn’t even seem to be a highlights programme on non-Sky Tv, Carol. I guess a few seconds on the news is the most we are going to get.
     • Carol 1.1.1

       1 September 2012 at 8:15 am

       Thanks, TRP. And UNBELIEVABLE! But I guess that’s the influence of corporatised pay TV for you?
       • Te Reo Putake 1.1.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 8:25 am

         It might have been different if the Paralympics was before the Olympics, ie part of the buildup, rather than an afterthought. Or if Sky didn’t have such an unassailable monopoly on live sport in general.
         • Balanced View 1.1.1.1.1

           1 September 2012 at 9:30 am

           Or if the mainstream public even gave a damn about it
2. Carol 2

   1 September 2012 at 8:27 am

   Stuff is indulging in a bit of a Hillz love fest this morning, as Hillary gets a photo op with some patriotic US nuns (I guess the US-ians really are the chosen people!), and everyone dances lightly around the central issue of the China-US tension within the Pacific:

   http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7593279/Hillary-Clinton-touches-down-for-Pacific-Forum

   In a late night press conference he told media that China was here to “respond to the priorities and concerns of the island countries themselves.

   “We are here in this region not to seek any particular influence, still less dominance.”

   Asked whether Mrs Clinton’s presence was a response to concerns about growing Chinese influence in the region, Mr Cui said we should ask her.

   “Secretary Clinton is arriving in a short while. You can ask her this question. I’m not her spokesperson.”

   China was not in the Pacific to compete with anybody, he said.

   Earlier this week Prime Minister John Key raised eyebrows when he said China had “growing tentacles” around the world.

   Mr Cui said he had met with Mr Key and he was “very friendly”.

   And the rest of us in the Sth Pacific just seem like pawns in their game.
   • Draco T Bastard 2.1

     1 September 2012 at 10:45 am

     And the rest of us in the Sth Pacific just seem like pawns in their game.

     That’s all anybody else is to empires as they work to pump wealth from other countries to them.
     • travellerev 2.1.1

       1 September 2012 at 11:04 am

       Funny was just gonna link to my two cents worth!
       • fnjckg 2.1.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 5:28 pm

         lepta
   • Lanthanide 2.2

     1 September 2012 at 11:25 am

     I bet Key would never say that the US had “growing tentacles” around the world. Yet he obviously didn’t have a problem saying it about China.
     • Beryl Streep 2.2.1

       2 September 2012 at 2:05 am

       China doesn’t seem to have a problem with it http://goo.gl/HSLis
       I’m not sure why you have a problem with it Lanthanide, are you offended on behalf of China? It would be presumptuous if you are.
       • Carol 2.2.1.1

         2 September 2012 at 8:05 am

         Oh, Beryl, you take the Chinese statement at face value? Really? Given the current US-China tensions in the Asia-Pacific region?

         http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/clinton-in-south-pacific-with-china-in-mind-at-start-of-6-nation-asia-tour/2012/08/31/f1da456e-f3d0-11e1-b74c-84ed55e0300b_story.html

         http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/02/opinion/sunday/mrs-clintons-asia-mission.html

         And you expect the Chinese spokesman to say explicitly that they are p**sed off with Key and Clinton?
   • joe90 2.3

     1 September 2012 at 5:51 pm

     And the rest of us in the Sth Pacific just seem like pawns in their game.

     Sold by the banker.

     Selwyn Manning; The Pacific Fibre Issue – Has The US Gone Too Far?

     In simplistic terms, the Washington Declaration signaled to the Chinese that DC has New Zealand in its pocket. The FBI raid on Megaupload.com boss Kim Dotcom’s residence, on New Zealand soil, underscored that fact, as has this successful move by the US to scuttle the Pacific Fibre venture.
3. Balanced View 3

   1 September 2012 at 9:41 am

   http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/08/31/education-inequality-4/#comments

   Truth or lies?
   • PJ 3.1

     1 September 2012 at 10:14 am

     “Balanced View” – Truth or lie?
   • chris73 3.2

     1 September 2012 at 10:29 am

     Its on red alert so its safe to assume its a lie.
     • Draco T Bastard 3.2.1

       1 September 2012 at 1:26 pm

       No, it’s safe to assume that it’s correct.
       • Balanced View 3.2.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 1:48 pm

         “2008/09 Budget (Labour’s last)

         Early Childhood Education: $897.5m
         Primary Education: $2,342.2m
         Secondary Education: $1,811.4m

         2012/13 Budget (National’s most recent)

         Early Childhood Education: $1,378.9m
         Primary Education: $2,814.4m
         Secondary Education: $2,066.3m

         Inflation from Q2 2008 to Q2 2012: 10.1%

         National has not cut the schools budget.”

         http://blog.labour.org.nz/2012/08/29/education-inequality-2/comment-page-1/#comment-292943
         • mickysavage 3.2.1.1.1

           1 September 2012 at 1:55 pm

           Gawd one of Cameron’s disciples.

           Tell you what unbalanced view, it would help to link to the right page, this tends to give you more credibility.  You have linked to Educational inequality page 4.  You want page 2.
           • Balanced View 3.2.1.1.1.1

             1 September 2012 at 2:06 pm

             The link takes me directly to the comment I quoted.
             Just trying to fond out what specific numbers the labour banner was referring to.
             On the face of it – the banner looks incorrect.
             • mickysavage …

               1 September 2012 at 2:26 pm

               Well you must have mystical powers because it does not when I click on it.  You are aware of the difference between a “2” and a “4” don’t you?

               And it probably is a waste of time to talk to you about multi year budget allocations and how a nominal increase may actually represent a cut.

               And BTW that $35 million extra to private schools that occurred at the same time that well regarded professional training for primary teachers was cut was a particularly silly idea. 
               • Balanced View …

                 1 September 2012 at 6:36 pm

                 Try using the last link I posted – it directs accurately to the specific comment I copied and pasted.
                 I’m not sure how or why you would want to defend the banner when it seems so clearly wrong. I came here to see if anyone could explain the sense in it – seems no-one can.
                 • mickysavage …

                   1 September 2012 at 6:50 pm

                   OK so your first link was wrong.

                   Have you ever heard of “multi year appropriations”?

                   If you have then check out what will happen in future years and then understand there is indeed a cut.

                   And while you are at it how about you comment on that $35 million extra to private schools that occurred at the same time that well regarded professional training for primary teachers was cut. 
                   • Balanced View …

                     1 September 2012 at 7:24 pm

                     My first link correctly links to a page that the banner I referred to is on.
                     Perhaps next time I should just spell it out to save you the difficulty of being so confused.

                     Ahh – so it’s a play on words – there is actually NO cut from previous spending – just a cut from proposed increased spending.

                     So as I understand it, National has increased education spending by 24% since the last Labour government, yet Nanaia Mahuta and David Shearer post a banner claiming it’s been cut. At the very least this is misleading. I think it’s dishonest.

                     Does anyone know the annual public cost per student at private schools, and how that relates to those at public schools?
                   • mickysavage …

                     1 September 2012 at 7:36 pm

                     You cherry pick data.  At a time where many talented young people stay on at university and rolls are at an all time high more is being spent.  What a surprise.

                     How about you go and get the 2008 projected figures and compare them to the latest budget’s figures and we then have an argument.

                     This is a really silly proposition.  Put up all the figures and show the reductions and we can then have an argument.

                     Unless of course you want to sow confusion. 
                   • Balanced View …

                     1 September 2012 at 7:42 pm

                     The data that was posted showed increases across early childhood, primary, and secondary.
                     No mention of tertiary.
                     And now you want to compare a projected figure against an actual? I would call that sowing confusion.
                   • mickysavage …

                     1 September 2012 at 7:54 pm

                     Ooh my mistake, one each.  Obviously too many wines on a Saturday night.

                     So have you learned about “multi year appropriations” yet?

                     Please do and then come back. 
4. William Joyce 4

   1 September 2012 at 10:28 am

   Just in case you were beginning to think rich people were deeply misunderstood and that they feel the pain of those who are less fortunate, here’s the world’s wealthiest woman, Australian mining tycoon Gina Rinehart, with some helpful advice. – LA Times
   • William Joyce 4.1

     1 September 2012 at 10:33 am

     She’s already becoming a meme – link
   • Balanced View 4.2

     1 September 2012 at 2:09 pm

     There is an element of truth in what she says though isn’t there
     • William Joyce 4.2.1

       1 September 2012 at 2:25 pm

       Really? What truth would that be?
       • Tigger 4.2.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 3:03 pm

         It’s a pity most of those memes attack her appearance. Her true ugliness is her attitude and behaviour. That said -I am totally stealing one – let them eat bread, I ate the cake will be perfect for a picture of Key I have.
         • felix 4.2.1.1.1

           1 September 2012 at 3:51 pm

           The uglinees of her attitude and behavior is surpassed only by the ugliness of her poetry. Translated of course from the original Vogon, her first language:

           Our Future

           The globe is sadly groaning with debt, poverty and strife

           And billions now are pleading to enjoy a better life

           Their hope lies with resources buried deep within the earth

           And the enterprise and capital which give each project worth

           Is our future threatened with massive debts run up by political hacks

           Who dig themselves out by unleashing rampant tax

           The end result is sending Australian investment, growth and jobs offshore

           This type of direction is harmful to our core

           Some envious unthinking people have been conned

           To think prosperity is created by waving a magic wand

           Through such unfortunate ignorance, too much abuse is hurled

           Against miners, workers and related industries who strive to build the world

           Develop North Australia, embrace multiculturalism and welcome short term foreign workers to our shores

           To benefit from the export of our minerals and ores

           The world’s poor need our resources: do not leave them to their fate

           Our nation needs special economic zones and wiser government, before it is too late
       • Balanced View 4.2.1.2

         1 September 2012 at 3:30 pm

         That complaining and moaning about others success doesn’t generate any of your own
         • mickysavage 4.2.1.2.1

           1 September 2012 at 3:37 pm

           The woman is an idiot.  She lectures the poor on how their state is because they do not work hard enough or have the odd beer yet she inherited her wealth.

           She is wealthy only through luck, not through any merit.   

           She is the classic example of why there should be estate taxes. 
         • William Joyce 4.2.1.2.2

           1 September 2012 at 5:25 pm

           “That complaining and moaning about others success doesn’t generate any of your own”
           That’s an interesting interpretation. I don’t think she intended to be so benign.
           She was saying more than the problem was “complaining & moaning”. She was saying that those who complain and moan were feckless, indolent wastrels.
           She then went on to infer that there was a cause and effect process.
           Hard work + investment leads to wealth. Not so simple.
           Then add to that the hypocrisy of her own position and history.
            
           Lots of people work hard and are enterprising and yet don’t get the hourly return she does.
           She didn’t have to work hard to get the capital that gave her an advantage.
           A shit load of money can breed a shit load more.
           It opens up investment and capital injections the likes of which an SME owner can only dream of.
            
           Beside, what’s her day like? How much socialising, drinking, and smoking does she do. I bet she doesn’t rise early to open the shop, schlep for supplies, serve customers, manage staff, take deliveries – only to return home to spend the evening processing the invoices, PAYE & GST, payroll, rates, bank accounts. Then start again in the morning. All the time wondering if you will lose your house if you can’t make enough to pay the mortgage you took out to start the business.
            
           Most likely her job requires her to socialise, eat, drink and be merry and get paid for at the same time!
            
           She talks about anti-government policies yet she gets to extract resources from the land for a song and then complains when other Australians want to tax her for plundering their non-renewable resources.

           She talks about creating jobs and yet she is the one who wants to import cheaper foreign workers. Create jobs, yeah for who?

           “Lower taxes” and “cut wages” are the regurgitated mantra of the right – yet when they happen we don’t get the promised results.
           We are told by this class of people that their businesses would thrive if only we could reduce government “interference”. Yet,  NZ is, according to the OECD, the third easiest country in the world in which to do business.
           So….they can’t make their business thrive in that environment? Perhaps there are other reasons? Perhaps they need to look to themselves.
           Or are they just regurgitating the group-think-education they got at the last business leaders dinner?
           • Balanced View 4.2.1.2.2.1

             1 September 2012 at 6:32 pm

             As difficult as it is, try not to let the messenger cloud the message.
             • Draco T Bastard …

               1 September 2012 at 6:42 pm

               He didn’t.
             • mickysavage …

               1 September 2012 at 6:51 pm

               As difficult as it may be for you, try to understand the criticism.
           • William Joyce 4.2.1.2.2.2

             1 September 2012 at 7:16 pm

             Forgot to mention – on the subject of creating jobs. The mining industry is already moving to automating and remotely controlling the mining process. Creating jobs? Yeah, Right!
       • Dr Terry 4.2.1.3

         1 September 2012 at 6:10 pm

         Just ANYTHING could contain än ” element of truth”, so does this make a bad thing alright?
5. Dv 5

   1 September 2012 at 10:55 am

   Another disconnect in the Justice system
   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10830976

   breakers owes $93,000 in fines, has served 760 hours’ community work and once got ticketed six times in one day.

   Compared to

   Sir Douglas Graham, he was given 300 hours’ community service for his part in a $125 million fraud.”

   (Sir Douglas, a former Cabinet minister, was also ordered to pay reparations of $100,000.)
   • weka 5.1

     1 September 2012 at 11:03 am

     Would it have been too hard for the NZH journo to ask the man why his car was unregistered and unlicenced?
     • Draco T Bastard 5.1.1

       1 September 2012 at 12:19 pm

       Apparently. Although, looking at the picture it appears to be red stickered which tells us that it’s not up to standard and probably never will be.
   • kiwi_prometheus 5.2

     1 September 2012 at 11:47 am

     The vehicle should be confiscated, his license cancelled permanently. He can ride a push bike the rest of his life – the exercise would do him good, he’s a skinny looking runt.

     Then like all those useless good for nothings he plays the “I’m a parent raising a child” card. Too bad he has bred, imagine what a drop kick that kid will turn out to be with parenting like that.

     Graham should be in the slammer, his wealth confiscated.
   • Draco T Bastard 5.3

     1 September 2012 at 12:22 pm

     The double standards of our justice system are intolerable.
     • kiwi_prometheus 5.3.1

       1 September 2012 at 12:50 pm

       Yeah I read that one in the NZHerald this morning.

       But who knows what the altercation was about? I’ve crossed a few super jerks in my time and if they had stood in front of my car and started vandalising it…
       • felix 5.3.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 1:12 pm

         .. you would have driven away from them.

         But check this shit* out: A guy with a lot of parking tickets makes you fly into a rage and want to take him off the road forever.

         But the guy who runs someone over on purpose you empathise with.

         * that’s you btw.
         • Dv 5.3.1.1.1

           1 September 2012 at 1:37 pm

           Backing the car away might have been an option, rather than driving forward.
6. Draco T Bastard 6

   1 September 2012 at 12:12 pm

   Clark and Dawe on the mining boom
7. kiwi_prometheus 7

   1 September 2012 at 1:03 pm

   Some small time tv celebrity broke after “”eight hours of unrelenting abuse” on Twit Book. Had to be carted off to the funny farm.

   http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&objectid=10830997

   “What we’re looking at is more capacity for take-down orders.”

   Fair enough.

   “She recently described New Zealand as “small, nasty and vindictive,” which sparked a vicious onslaught on Twitter.”

   So she can dish it out, but runs into the corner and cries when she gets it back. 🙄

   “Melbourne’s Monash University suspended staff member Tanya Heti who tweeted Dawson, saying “on behalf of NZ we would like you to please go hang yourself”.”

   Oh oh looks like someone’s in big trouble now.

   I’ve lost count the number of times online I’ve been told to go do something harmful or sexually bizarre to myself. I didn’t cry about it.

   “make it an offence to incite a person to commit suicide and to legislate against obscene or menacing comments on the internet or in emails or text messages.”

   That’s a bit extreme isn’t it?
   • fatty 7.1

     1 September 2012 at 1:29 pm

     “Had to be carted off to the funny farm….So she can dish it out, but runs into the corner and cries when she gets it back.”

     Classy…I hope that comment makes you feel better about yourself?
   • Draco T Bastard 7.2

     1 September 2012 at 1:37 pm

     So she can dish it out, but runs into the corner and cries when she gets it back.

     I suspect that you fail to understand the concept of scale. She said one line and got back thousands over the period of hours. Sure, she shouldn’t have said it but that doesn’t excuse the behaviour of the thousands of people who attacked her.

     That’s a bit extreme isn’t it?

     Nope, it’s been that way for the telephone for decades and threatening people is a criminal offence and it shouldn’t matter how it’s delivered.
     • Olwyn 7.2.1

       1 September 2012 at 4:31 pm

       It seems rather self defeating for New Zealanders (whom I assume it must be) to punish someone for saying that NZ is “small, nasty and vindictive” by barraging them with small, nasty and vindictive messages.
       • OneTrack 7.2.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 9:17 pm

         It did tend to prove her point, didnt it.
   • William Joyce 7.3

     1 September 2012 at 7:30 pm

     As someone who suffers from depression, a friends of many, and having work in the community support for people far worse off than me,  I find it offensive the tone of your comment

     Had to be carted off to the funny farm.

     She wasn’t. She was taken to hospital after a supposed suicide attempt.
     Dawson has publicly discussed her struggle with depression and suicide. For someone (this Melbourne person) to knowingly send those tweets shows just how ugly those people could be.
     Add to that there were those who didn’t even know who she was as there was an organised effort on one of the Chans.
     So a shit storm descended on someone who was vulnerable and for whom that very vulnerability compelled her to respond when she should have left it alone.

     I’ve lost count the number of times online I’ve been told to go do something harmful or sexually bizarre

     After reading your comment I can see why.
     • Vicky32 7.3.1

       2 September 2012 at 6:49 pm

       After reading your comment I can see why.

       Seconded. I couldn’t care less about her ‘celebrity’, but no one deserves the abuse she got. Depression is serious!
8. Colonial Viper 8

   1 September 2012 at 2:28 pm

   Apple lawsuits destroy the Starship Enterprise
   • Dv 8.1

     1 September 2012 at 3:51 pm

     Nice , like it.
     (From my ipad.)

     I also liked the cartoon?, where India was claiming half the returns from the digital world for inventing the 0
   • lprent 8.2

     1 September 2012 at 7:16 pm

     Cool. Voices could have been better…
9. Draco T Bastard 9

   1 September 2012 at 3:48 pm

   Green Party critisise rail line closure

   You know, what we really need to be able to do with these boards that do stupid things (like closing rail lines) is be able to fire them for incompetence.

   BTW, the spelling mistake came from a copy/paste from the ZB website.
   • weka 9.1

     1 September 2012 at 5:50 pm

     And what do Labour have to say on the matter?
     • lprent 9.1.1

       1 September 2012 at 7:01 pm

       Why are you asking him? Draco really isn’t that interested in Labour except in the most abstract of ways.

       I’d suggest looking at http://labour.org.nz
       • weka 9.1.1.1

         1 September 2012 at 7:19 pm

         It was more of a rhetorical question 😉
10. Dave Kennedy 10

    1 September 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Drew Hutton’s cautionary tale about the fracking industry in Australia is one worth listening to. http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.co.nz/2012/08/lock-gate-in-south.html
11. Draco T Bastard 11

    1 September 2012 at 4:44 pm

    Sure, it’s Australian but I doubt the stats are that much different:

    In terms of weekly equivalised expenditure, the Low economic resource households spent $A10 a week on alcoholic beverages (1.9 per cent of their total spending) whereas the rest of the population spent $A21 a week on alcoholic beverages (2.4 per cent of their budget).

    Beneficiaries will spend even less.
12. Draco T Bastard 12

    1 September 2012 at 6:17 pm

    Don’t give climate change heretics an easy ride

    When it comes to this academic discipline, it seems that if you are a specialist in public sector food-poisoning surveillance or possess a zoology doctorate on sexual selection in pheasants, editors will seek your contrarian views more avidly than if you have qualifications in climate science and a lifetime’s professional expertise. The press is further littered with climate “heretics” almost all of whom have academic backgrounds in history, literature, and the classics with a diploma in media studies. (All these examples are true.) One botanist trying to argue that glaciers were advancing took his data (described as simply false by the World Glacier Monitoring Service) from a former architect.

    And that is reasonably true. Why else does Lord Monckton or the Climate Science Coalition get air time about climate change? None of them are climatologists.
13. Morrissey 13

    1 September 2012 at 7:04 pm

    http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer108.html

    The Anti-Empire Report
    September 1st, 2012
    by WILLIAM BLUM

    Louis XVI needed a revolution, Napoleon needed two historic military defeats, the Spanish Empire in the New World needed multiple revolutions, the Russian Czar needed a communist revolution, the Austro-Hungarian and Ottoman Empires needed World War I, the Third Reich needed World War II, the Land of the Rising Sun needed two atomic bombs, the Portuguese Empire in Africa needed a military coup at home. What will the American Empire need?

    Perhaps losing the long-held admiration and support of one group of people after another, one country after another, as the empire’s wars, bombings, occupations, torture, and lies eat away at the facade of a beloved and legendary “America”; an empire unlike any other in history, that has intervened seriously and grievously, in war and in peace, in most countries on the planet, as it preached to the world that the American Way of Life was a shining example for all humanity and that America above all was needed to lead the world.

    The Wikileaks documents and videos have provided one humiliation after another … lies exposed, political manipulations revealed, gross hypocrisies, murders in cold blood, … followed by the torture of Bradley Manning and the persecution of Julian Assange. Washington calls the revelations “threats to national security”, but the world can well see it’s simply plain old embarrassment. Manning’s defense attorneys have asked the military court on several occasions to specify the exact harm done to national security. The court has never given an answer. If hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, consider an empire embarrassed.

    And we now have the international soap opera, L’Affaire Assange, starring Sweden, the United Kingdom, the United States, Ecuador, and Julian Assange. The United States’ neo-colonies of Sweden (an active warring member of NATO in all but name) and the United Kingdom (with its “special relationship” to the United States) know what is expected of them to earn a pat on the head from their Washington uncle. We can infer that Sweden has no legitimate reason to demand the extradition of Julian Assange from London from the fact that it has repeatedly refused offers to question Assange in the UK and repeatedly refused to explain why it has refused to do so.

    The Brits, under “immense pressure from the Obama administration”, as reported to former British ambassador Craig Murray by the UK Foreign Office,2 threatened, in a letter to the Ecuadoran government….

    Read more….
    http://killinghope.org/bblum6/aer108.html
14. William Joyce 14

    1 September 2012 at 7:07 pm

    Something to while away the evening.
    
    Republican National Convention
    Drinking Game

    You have to have a drink when….

    You hear:

    We built it
    God
    Obamacare
    A personal story of a “hard working father made good”
    Back on track
    Steer this country…
    Lies
    The next President of the United States_________ [must finish beer – for your own good]
    Chanting
    Mitt saved the Winter Olympics
    Birth Certificate
    Tax cuts
    Moment of silence/praise for military/public service
    Ronald Reagan

    Or you see:

    Flag lapel pin
    Funny hats
    Fake smile
    A family
    Someone in the audience who looks as though they relate to the topic
    A black face in the crowd
    Ronald Reagan [you have had too many drinks]
    • Morrissey 14.1

      1 September 2012 at 7:27 pm

      You also have to have a drink if you hear one of these words used in a pejorative way:

      “Liberal”
      “Government”
      “Immigration”

      or if you see one of these waving a Romney/Ryan banner:

      http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VYdRmczF_5Y/T-jdAu9KoTI/AAAAAAAAALU/hSiAa9UYk14/s1600/1065fc177537243433de6d91e1a72304-d4hjx9a.jpg
      • William Joyce 14.1.1

        1 September 2012 at 7:44 pm

        What a great movie that would make. In order to save the planet and the human race a group of idealistic Zombie fighters gatecrash a Republican convention to end the rise of the living dead. Blood everywhere as ice picks are put through skulls and decaying heads are separated from shoulders!
        • Morrissey 14.1.1.1

          2 September 2012 at 7:28 am

          Actually, just to be serious for a moment, that is exactly what might have to happen. Eastwood looked like he’d just been dug up from the grave.

          I wonder how much PAC money that old rat received for the second-most dismal role of his career.
15. Anne 15

    1 September 2012 at 7:17 pm

    Thanks for that Morrissey. Huge room for thought!

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