Open mike 01/12/2012

Written By: - Date published: 6:00 am, December 1st, 2012 - 132 comments
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Open mike is your post. For announcements, general discussion, whatever you choose.

The usual rules of good behaviour apply (see the link to Policy in the banner).

Step right up to the mike…

132 comments on “Open mike 01/12/2012 ”

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  1. Jenny 1
    1 December 2012 at 6:25 am

    A National Government led New Zealand has voted with the majority of the world in Legitimising the Palestinian cause.

    While the Labour Government of Australia abstained.

    Australian Foreign Affairs Minister Bob Carr cited “intense pressure” on the Australian government from the US to actively vote against the resolution as the reason for their abstention.

    No doubt the same sort of “intense pressure” would have come down on our government too. But instead of buckling and taking the weak and cowardly escape route from this pressure by abstaining. To their credit our government resisted this pressure and came down on the side of justice and decency.

    There are questions raised by this anomaly.

    How would a Labour Party in office react to such intense US pressure?

    Would a Shearer led Labour government have buckled to US pressure as the Australian Labour Government have?

    Why has the Labour Leader been silent on this issue?

    Why when it has been carried in virtually every other media have there been no posts from The Standard authors on this historic UN vote?

    Are the writers for The Standard and the Labour Party so sectarian that they won’t give credit to the government even when it is due?

    Is this the reason for The Standard’s silence on this historic event?

    If so then it shows why Labour is losing the people’s support. This sort of sectarian pettiness is just boring to most people.

    • karol 1.1
      1 December 2012 at 6:51 am

      Jenny, “The Standard” doesn’t decide to write or not to write on anything.  The Standard is not part of the Labour Party.  I have not party voted for Labour for a few elections. Each writer chooses what to write about when they have time.  There are many pressing issues relevant to left wing NZ’ers.

      Of course celebrate the historic  decision.  You also should refresh you knowledge of the site policies.

      • weka 1.1.1
        1 December 2012 at 8:38 am

        Plus all ts authors are vounteers. Jenny, why not write a post and ask for it be put up as a guest?

        • KJT 1.1.1.1
          1 December 2012 at 9:19 am

          Well. Credit where credit is due.

          All credit to who-ever in the NACT Government decided to do the right thing in this case.

        • Jenny 1.1.1.2
          2 December 2012 at 4:42 pm

          Jenny, why not write a post and ask for it be put up as a guest?

          weka

          Done

          Let’s see if this or any other post on this vote appears on The Standard, or whether the sectarian cone of silence will persist.

          • Pascal's bookie 1.1.1.2.1
            2 December 2012 at 4:59 pm

            Why claim it’s sectarian? Seems to me it’s just a bit boring actually. Folks are waiting to see what it means. What actually happens.

            Though I realise that you think posting overwrought propaganda is the most important thing in the world.

            how’s Syria going, anyhoo?

          • QoT 1.1.1.2.2
            2 December 2012 at 6:13 pm

            Fuck off, Jenny. I said it on Twitter when I first saw your comment and I’ll say it again: I, for one, cannot be bothered with the pointless circular flamewar which any post on Israel/Palestine is likely to incite.

            Implying that The Standard’s authors are involved in a conspiracy to not post about a certain issue is fucking ludicrous and probably likely to invoke moderator wrath. Didn’t you get a clue on that subject after the Cunliffe leadership beat-up?

            • Jenny 1.1.1.2.2.1
              3 December 2012 at 6:12 am

              Fuck off, Jenny. I said it on Twitter when I first saw your comment and I’ll say it again: I, for one, cannot be bothered with the pointless circular flamewar which any post on Israel/Palestine is likely to incite.

              QoT

              Thanks Thorns for providing us with your succinct rationalisation for self censorship.

              But do you have to be such a potty mouth? This is, after all (hopefully). a family friendly website.

              • QoT …
                3 December 2012 at 6:24 pm

                You must be fucking new around here.

              • Jackal …
                4 December 2012 at 6:14 pm

                But do you have to be such a potty mouth?

                Jenny Jenny Jenny… I now this might come as a surprise to you but the english language includes lots of swear words, swear words that can be used on most blogs within reason to support an argument. As you’re clearly not new to The Standard, you should know that QoT’s clever use of various obscenities is well within the bounds of the moderation policy.

                In fact the appropriate use of swear words like QoT’s ‘fuck off’ above is most appropriate and lends itself to the context of the debate by succinctly expressing distaste with your assertions. Fuck is also on the very light side of profanity and these days would only offend those who cannot debate the topic or prudes. Unfortunately your response means I cannot rule you out of fitting comfortably into both these clichés.

    • rosy 1.2
      1 December 2012 at 7:13 am

      I was wondering why the government didn’t cave in to U.S. pressure too. Much as I’m grateful for it doing the right thing the cynic in me sees a trade with the Middle East position here, and a negotiating position with the U.S. – just letting them know that our interests lie in trade. Roll on the TPP.

      • Colonial Viper 1.2.1
        1 December 2012 at 7:18 am

        China.

      • karol 1.2.2
        1 December 2012 at 7:24 am

        Yes, while I was pleased to see Palestine get this bit of recognition (though not full member status), my mind yesterday was on some other pressing concerns for Kiwis – like the TPP and Bennett’s nasty little welfare reform bill that started getting submissions.

        Agreed, CV. I almost commented that as well, but haven’t seen any MSM comment on how China voted.

    • marsman 1.3
      1 December 2012 at 8:42 am

      Jenny. I signed an on-line petition demanding John Key sign for the UN inclusion of Palestine. The petition was circulated because there was doubt that Key would sign. Perhaps that petition persuaded Key, who knows. By the way, I am a Labour/Green supporter but I don’t see why I should give credit to National for doing a good thing, one of the very few good things they have done, it’s the least they could have done.

    • millsy 1.5
      1 December 2012 at 12:00 pm

      Personally I dont find the idea of ghettoing the Palestinians in their own little corrall is acceptable.

      A single fedrative state for both Isreali Jews and Palestinian Arabs is the way to go.

  2. BillODrees 2
    1 December 2012 at 6:43 am

    Rimutaka Electorate under threat from a weak Labour MP.

    SInce Chris Hipkins was handed Paul Swain’s seat in 2008 it has been downhill for Labour and up, up and up for National in the Rimutaka Electorate (Upper Hutt). 
    Chris Hipkins is letting the National candidate, Jonathan Fletcher, eat his lunch and has no response.  Seemingly Chris only likes fighting Labour people at Conferences and on TV.   Chris is sitting in his comfort zone, the Parliamentary offices and Bellamy’s, where he previously played at being a staffer for Mallard, while Fletcher is hitting the streets of Upper Hutt. 

    Have a look at these figures: 
    The Labour party vote went from 48% in 2005 to 33% in 2011, while National went from 34% to 45% at the same time.   The same poor performance also applies to the Electorate vote.  Swain’s 55% has become Hipkin’s 51%, while Fletcher took the 2005 30% to 42% in 2011. 

    Hipkin’s intemperate behaviour at Conference and on TV has lost him much of the little personal local support he had.  He never had much experience outside of the isolated space that is the Labour offices. 

    Maybe Rimutaka needs a more temperate and personable candidate in 2014.  

    • billbrowne 2.1
      1 December 2012 at 9:48 am

      Yes, well I’m a dyed in the wool, never voted for anything else other than Labour votor — and I sure as hell won’t be giving that little creep my vote in the next election!

      • Jim Nald - Once Was National 2.1.1
        1 December 2012 at 11:16 am

        Chris Hipkins, the ‘Accidental’ Labour MP – sounds like National has another very very good friend in the Labour caucus ?

        Hipkins should be given a $40,000 bonus.

        • JazzaBelle 2.1.1.1
          1 December 2012 at 12:27 pm

          Hipkins has fallen on his face as a whip, in his rush to get a portfolio. Whips who do not have the respect of the majority of Caucus become ineffectual.
          Flunking in the electorate AND in his first adult role is a poor show. Screaming at members at Conference was damaging. Calling Cunliffe a liar on TV was obnoxious.

          Was he trying to emulate Mallard? Is there something wrong with him?

          • Crimson Nile 2.1.1.1.1
            1 December 2012 at 1:55 pm

            Labour Party membership numbers in Rimutaka are not as healthy as they once were.

            Not that they have ever been that strong, but according to locals under Hipkins the trend has been less promising. It may mark the over-emphasis he has on internal caucus activities and an under-emphasis on building up the party presence in his own electorate.

            • billbrowne 2.1.1.1.1.1
              1 December 2012 at 3:20 pm

              Well, I’m a member – what’s the process for getting him pushed from within and getting someone else?
              Not even sure what the forum is for gauging local members’ support for dumping him

              • Crimson Tide …
                1 December 2012 at 3:57 pm

                I’m not sure that I would condone a hostile de-selection of a sitting MP as it is a big step. To be serious, you would want to source a copy of the party’s constitution and become very familiar with all the relevant sections.

                • billbrowne …
                  1 December 2012 at 6:33 pm

                  I’m assuming that there is some sort of democratic process whereby electorate candidates are selected.

                  As I say, I don’t know how this works, but surely if the members want a different representative it is their right to vote for a new one.

                  As for him being a sitting MP, It may well be that after the next election he will be that only if his list position is high enough.

                  As is said above, he is bleeding support amongst the general population of the electorate. The Nats spent a relatively large amount of resources in the electorate prior to the last election, I think because they smelt blood on the water.

                  This all adds up to a very tenuous position in what used to be a pretty red seat, both for party vote and electorate.

                  Adding the fact that he is, in my opinion, not a suitable candidate for me, as a consistent Labour voter to vote for leads me to believe that, should the local members be in the same mindset, he should be removed and replaced.

                  Actually, fuck it, I just read down comments regarding Tamihere.

                  If I can make some small contribution to taking out these bastards one at a time – I’m in.

      • liberty 2.1.2
        2 December 2012 at 10:58 am

        There is a story going around the traps. In the house. Hipkins stands on the half million Ingram report on field. Even then he still comes across as school kid.

  3. higherstandard 3
    1 December 2012 at 7:48 am

    “It’s a sad indictment on society that this wee girl, there’s nowhere that she can go to be safe and so we leave her with a mother who is refusing a drug test even after she’s killed the little girl’s elder sister. It makes me feel ill.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851182

    • weka 3.1
      1 December 2012 at 9:24 am

      That quote appears to be a complete misrepresentation of the situation. Not surprising though, it’s from the sensible sentencing people. From what I can tell the child is being left with the mother, because to remove her at this stage would be incredibly damaging to the child. The judge made it clear that if that weren’t the case, the woman would go to jail.
       
      Sensible sentencing would be to give the woman prescribed drugs, so she stops having to spend so much money on meth. Give her the support to stabilise her life. Those things will help the child.

  4. Rogue Trooper 4
    1 December 2012 at 7:50 am

    Who Made Who HS?

  5. karol 5
    1 December 2012 at 7:57 am

    Lyndon Hood’s latest, This Movie Sucks:  NZ politics is a middle-earth script, and Hood makes a pitch to be a new writer for it.

     How do I get a job with this nest of genius satirists?…

    The older generation of satirists came out of newsrooms, but there seems to have been some kind of handover to a new team without so much journalistic experience. Bloggers, probably. Artsy types who don’t have that strong a grip of policy issues. Don’t quite grasp how it’s supposed to work. They’ll be the ones who decided to make a renegade German file sharer the most politically effective person in the country.

    But they miss important details. Like how the ministers keep talking about the Treasury’s surplus as if that’s the same thing as fixing the national economy. That’s silly….

    It’s hardly Shakespearian.
     
    (Speaking of which: ‘Cunliffe wanders mad in the wilderness, giving stirring speeches to trees and rock on the need for economic management that reflect the real needs of the people.’ You can have that one for free.)
     
    Or I could do the media: I have an idea for a subplot where they all start doing policy analysis.
     
    But ultimately I’d like to do an episode of John Key. Who wouldn’t? The legendary postmodern horror story of a PM who only grows stronger the more he is mocked – to the point where his personal embarrassments provide a useful distraction from ongoing trainwrecks around actual policies. Whose actually name is (qui?) a dry multilingual pun. Love your work, Braunias.

    No wonder Key is behind NZ doing some Dr Who eps! It’s a rellie of his! 

  6. joe90 6
    1 December 2012 at 8:45 am

    Peter Sinclair interviews Dr. Kerry Emanuel of MIT and Dr. Jason Box of the Byrd Polar Center: Sandy and the Age of Superstorms.

    Meanwhile…..the idiots persist…..

    • Rogue Trooper 6.1
      1 December 2012 at 9:00 am

      it sure is one “world of ruptured communion” joe, wonder how long the great unravelling will take…
      http://www.amazon.com/Living-Word-Resisting-World-Paternoster/dp/1842270532
      yet, round and round we go, where it stops, no body knows…
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u1CB5xzbm8

      -the VelociRapture (just fooling a round) Rock on The Standard. Live and Thinking Back at ya!
      (we’ll be here 24/7 bringing you the best of what the Left has to offer, spinning those Platters 360 with
      no interuptions)

    • muzza 6.2
      1 December 2012 at 9:02 am

      So Joe, where do you see it all heading then, if you had to voice more than just some links, and actually put up a projection of how you saw things playing out, say over the nexy 10-30 years?

    • joe90 6.3
      1 December 2012 at 11:32 am

      In a nutshell muzza, human activities appear to be influencing the planets heat sink, the oceans, and warmer water will contribute more moisture to the equatorial atmosphere so larger systems of longer duration pushing further north/south will be generated causing a rising number of severe weather events and dramatic shifts in rainfall distribution that will almost certainly result in agricultural/oceanic resource catastrophes which, when coupled with other resource shortages, will create conflict.

  7. just saying 7
    1 December 2012 at 9:11 am

    Anyone else having problems with everything taking forever to load on this site? (But not other sites)

    • Colonial Viper 7.1
      1 December 2012 at 9:18 am

      A couple of times this morning I got stalls, and had to press reload, but not too bad.

  8. Draco T Bastard 8
    1 December 2012 at 9:28 am

    Students may give up: survey

    A survey of New Zealand postgraduate students has found that 40% are thinking of giving up studying because their eligibility for the student allowance is being stripped away next year.

    Could put a bit of a crimp in Joyce’s demand for more engineering students.

    • Jackal 8.1
      2 December 2012 at 11:02 am

      That particular issue was raised by Green co-leader Metiria Turei today on Q+A… Both Judith Collins and Peter Dunne scoffed at her. Meanwhile they spread their propaganda on thickly about needing to increase innovation through education, but as I see it their policy changes are at complete odds with ensuring New Zealand has enough trained and skilled graduates to meet demand.

      A potential 40% decline in graduations shouldn’t be simply dismissed by saying the research is incorrect. I mean how many times can National say the statistics showing their utter failure as a government are wrong and get away with it?

  9. ianmac 9
    1 December 2012 at 10:02 am

    Fancy that! John Armstrong is praising Labour for getting its act together. And under Mr Shearer’s leadership too:
    Bold policy is a return to the old ways, and a worry for National.

    Housing, a big part of Shearer’s keynote conference speech, is Labour’s bold policy focus as it promises to build 100,000 affordable homes in 10 years.
    Housing, a big part of Shearer’s keynote conference speech, is Labour’s bold policy focus as it promises to build 100,000 affordable homes in 10 years. Photo / Mark Mitchell

    For the first time in a very long time, Labour has come up with something radical on the policy front which may grab the public’s attention, if not imagination – and which National cannot really get away with copying.
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10851136

  10. muzza 10
    1 December 2012 at 10:35 am

    Casinos & Brothels = AKL CBD

    Way to make the city “world class” I guess!

    • Colonial Viper 10.1
      1 December 2012 at 10:41 am

      Gambling markets and brothels? Sounds like a haven for Wall St bankers.

      • muzza 10.1.1
        1 December 2012 at 10:51 am

        Yeah it seems to be at odds with the “worlds most liveable city” aspiration..

        Which of course is total BS, and is set to get worse, it will not get better.

        Corruption has already ensured that the outcomes are “priced in”

      • kiwi_prometheus 10.1.2
        1 December 2012 at 12:19 pm

        Well John Key did say some time ago he wanted to make NZ some kind of international financial hub.

        • muzza 10.1.2.1
          1 December 2012 at 12:49 pm

          NZ has been a financial hub for the globally corrupted since 1961 when we were handed over to the IMF/WB and thus those who sit behind those entities!

          Most everything that has become wrong with/in NZ, stems from that! We handed over the gold reserves and most likely signed away rights to resources under the “conditions” of the loans received at the time, which would account for the way we the the DI.MI.SI attitude going!

          Seeing the handover of our dairy industry now in full flight, farm debt a huge problem, having already lost control of food production by and large, along with the disputed water rights and energy generation, will complete the removal on NZ to ever be able to self sustain, we are at the mercy of foreign controlled entities, and we have not/will not be shown mercy, just look at what is going on to understand.

          Personal Debt, City Debt, Farm Debt, Student Debt, National Debt!

  11. Skinny 11
    1 December 2012 at 10:44 am

    New Lows In Broadcasting & Has National Started A Smear Campaign Against Winston Peters/ NZ First?

    I saw what I thought was a disgusting news item on TV 3 the other night. At the centre of the headline is NZ First MP Brendan Horan. The story first surfaced on Sunday in print & tv, in all intent & purpose it to appeared to be a family dispute over a late mothers estate not uncommon when $$ involved. Hearing Winston Peters explain a family member had approached him some months ago with allegations against Horan, Peters said “show me some proof of any wrong doing” according to Peters ‘that never happened.’ Then this character goes to the media with a copy of a amendment document to their late Mothers Will, for all in sundry to see. An extremely vexatious & bizarre thing to do to a family member with a such a public profile. It seemed ‘suspect’ to hear she was terminally ill when the amendment was made. Having sadly known people in that state, drugs provides relief from pain, at the price of being mentally muddled as a result. So to me keeping an open mind, an element of duress has to be considered. 

    Back to the TV 3 news item that was bad taste & what aroused my suspicions of a politically motivated attack. What I found offensive was the filming at the Horan’s families late mothers grave site. In my view this was a bridge too far & breached decency from the broadcaster. Totally unacceptable & disrespectful to a family still morning the death ( died August ) of a loved one.

    Secondly the reporter Brooke Sabin appeared to 
    the group I was watching the item with to show a sycophantic pleasure in covering this story. One of our group said “I wonder if he is related to National, Northland PM Mike Sabin?”

     Bingo! It just happens to be the reporter Brook Sabin is Mike Sabin’s son! 
    Winston Peters & Mike Sabin have a history of bad blood. Without appearing to be a conspiracy theorist is it a coincidence his son took up this story? and is it the start of a politically motived attack to knock Peters out again? Have Crosby Texter had a part to play? 
    Your Opinions would be great 🙂

    • millsy 11.1
      1 December 2012 at 12:09 pm

      NZ First has been a threat to the polictical establishment, and this story surfacing is no surprise. Of course its a smear campaign.

    • marsman 11.2
      1 December 2012 at 12:21 pm

      Skinny. I had a similar reaction to to about the hounding of Brendan Horan by that twerp on TV3. Seems that those worms like Garner, Gower etc enjoy hounding politicians from all parties EXCEPT National and Act. Biased?

      • Skinny 11.2.1
        1 December 2012 at 2:59 pm

        Marsman yes it wouldn’t surprise me if Nat daddy got straight on the blower to his son Brook, had him chase for the story & inflict as much damage as he could milk. NZ First have got a few runs on the board lately against Key & Co. I can recall Horan championing something against the Nats in the House & in the media a few months back, so any opportunity to smear him sounds about right.

    • Fortran 11.3
      1 December 2012 at 1:36 pm

      Skinny

      Did I not hear/read that Horan’s mother made a codicil a few mnonths before she died, at that same time two Doctor’s signed affidavits that she was fully “complis mentis” to make such a codicil so that nobody could say she was not right in her dottage.

      • Skinny 11.3.1
        1 December 2012 at 3:43 pm

        Fox ‘someone’ has obviously put her up to do that. Did that someone call a family meeting to raise their concerns as you would? Or did they choose not too? It appears the later to me which is harsh on a lady dying. Another negative against that person.

    • Treetop 11.4
      1 December 2012 at 4:54 pm

      Peters has done the right thing in standing Horan down. While a forensic anaylsis of Horan’s mother’s bank account is being done the media will feast on the statements of those involved. If Horan is defamed he can take this further and Peters comes out clean and he can then say it was a media beat up. If Horan has made false statements Peter’s will probably dump him if Horan does not resign. Peters has principles compared to Key.

      Horan’s mother is being exploited by the media and family members appear to be in for the cash grab.

      I want to know why the family did not appoint a lawyer to arrange the mother’s will when she was alive?

  12. BLiP 12
    1 December 2012 at 11:11 am

    .

    [ deep sigh ] A complete rinse and repeat from the climate change denialists, complete with reverential reference to the “Hockey Stick Illusion”. What is it with these people – do they think that if they repeat their lies often enough the science will disappear? In this instance, though, they are ignoring the science and attempting an “Unsworth” – attack the messenger. I beginning to wonder if perhaps the planet needs a climate catastrophe to bestir the somnamulent.

    • McFlock 12.1
      1 December 2012 at 11:23 am

      Actually, that’s exactly what they think. Or at least if they repeat the lies often enough, the science will be disguised by the impression that there is still fair-minded debate about the basics. So therefore the science that is reported is “balanced” by the other side of the “debate”. So the reality of the situation is disguised from as many people for as long as possible.

    • muzza 12.2
      1 December 2012 at 11:34 am

      Don’t fear BliP, when the time is right you will be able to jump onto the options offered, and say you contributed to “saving the planet”

      You may not like the options put forward but you won’t actually get a choice in the metter either, and they won’t be what you hope, or would want!

      But none the less, it will be for the planet, so it will just teach those bottom dwellers whose in charge!

      Hey McFlock, hows the local pedo rings going down your way?

      • McFlock 12.2.1
        1 December 2012 at 11:52 am

        Wow, that personality is more of a deranged prick than most of your others, muzz.

         

        • muzza 12.2.1.1
          1 December 2012 at 12:12 pm

          Going from LP’s random selective bans for “pointless abuse”, that should be getting you a week McFlock!

          The week I got was helpful to appreciate that people just can’t/won’t see what is going on around them, perhaps its all just too much, perhaps they don’t have the faculties, most likely a combo of these, and more…

          If my post seem more blunt at times, its because my patience for whats happening to NZ is running way out, and for those who won’t wrap their fat heads around the why, ran out long ago, so blunt it will be, along the way!

          • McFlock 12.2.1.1.1
            1 December 2012 at 12:38 pm

            So why were you asking about pedo rings? 

            • muzza 12.2.1.1.1.1
              1 December 2012 at 6:09 pm

              Because they’re a huge part of the problem, up and down the country.

              [RL: I have to assume that this is an unfunny and nasty form of pointless abuse. Two week ban.]

              • McFlock …
                1 December 2012 at 6:14 pm

                Paedophilia rings are a huge part of the climate-change denier problem in NZ?

                doxplox.

              • muzza …
                1 December 2012 at 6:35 pm

                RL – No it was a serious question, as I was going to give a first hand account of what I have just seen happen in the AKL district courts but thought better of it, good call!

                Frankly its getting too easy to be banned, and the reasons I am getting banned are not remotely evenly applied elsewhere, which indicates someone(s) have a got a beef.

                As I said to LP its his sandpit, you guys police it, do what you want.

                Just apply some consistancy, it looks like bias otherwise!

                [RL: If you were trying to make a serious point you went about it very maladroitly. To the point where it just looked like nasty, unimaginative abuse to me and everyone else. I’ll give you one shot at convincing me there was more to this than what it looked like; otherwise the two weeks stands.

                Moderation is not a machine; it’s a loose collective of people trying to read many hundreds of comments a day over a number of active threads. We’ll never be objective or consistent, and I’ve yet to see anyone we’ve ever moderated think we were being’fair’ at the time.]

                • weka …
                  1 December 2012 at 7:05 pm

                  I didn’t understand muzza’s comment to McFlock (it was completely context-less and then later not explained). But muzza did comment a couple of weeks ago, seriously, about child abuse rings, so I assumed the comment today was from something they have been thinking about.
                   
                  http://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-15112012/comment-page-1/#comment-547848
                   
                  It’s not my call, but I saw the comment as social ineptness or disconnect rather than tr*lling.
                   
                  Muzza, a proper explanation to McFlock when asked for might have helped.

                  [RL: To make it clear, I agree with weka. I’ll rescind the ban if you have a proper explanation.]

                  • muzza …
                    2 December 2012 at 10:02 am

                    It’s not my call, but I saw the comment as social ineptness or disconnect rather than tr*lling.

                    Hi Weka, there a a small number on these boards who have the nous to try take in wider context than any singular days posts, so good on you for that.

                    @ RL – Short version – For most of this year ive seen affidavits with impacts/links outside AKL to the suspected/known abuses. One particular case continues to be deferred, with the defendant having a 20+ year history of various abuses, “unchecked”. Reasons have been spurious at best, and the prosecution seemingly looking to make it go away and/or stuff it up. NZ is a shit pile of this type of behaviour, which many have the misfortune to be much closer to than they are aware!

                    Thats all I’m going to say on it, unless there is further which I can link to via the MSM or the LF link, which was in my post Weka pointed out above..

                    [RL: That’s gives it a better context, I’ll rescind the ban. The original line directed at McFlock was however clumsy and offensive, and on face value was always going to get the wrong kind of attention from a moderator. ]

      • just saying 12.2.2
        1 December 2012 at 12:54 pm

        Reckon you’ll have some more time to appreciate that superior intellect and wisdom you imagine you possess Muzza, when the moderators catch your latest piece of offensive and gratuitous malice. Do think of us, wont you.

        • muzza 12.2.2.1
          1 December 2012 at 6:03 pm

          latest piece of offensive and gratuitous malice

          What are you on about JS?

          And the point is, its got little to nothing to do with intellect, thats the primary issue. Most people are well capable of understanding, if only they started appreciating/accepting that there is likely, very little opportunity left to slow the sinking ship down.

          [RL: The “how are the local pedo rings going down there” crack is not acceptable. It’s in the same category of boring old jibes like “your meds need adjusting”; ie unimaginative and gratuitously offensive. ]

  13. muzza 13
    1 December 2012 at 11:23 am

    This must have been on the boards previously, but I just came across it….

    Auckland Council asked to keep quake-risk buildings secret

    Telling Aucklanders which buildings are likely to collapse in a moderate earthquake could generate panic or blacklisting of those properties, says a panel that heard public submissions on a draft earthquake-prone policy.

    “The likelihood that the information will be misconstrued is significant as shown in the case of information released to the media earlier this year,” said the panel.

    Ms Webster, who chaired the panel, said yesterday it was a difficult call because it involved private property versus the public right to know.

    Good to know who contols Auckland then, as if thats not clear enough!

    Has there been anything further to this, other the 393 buildings which have been named?

  14. kiwi_prometheus 14
    1 December 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Great, more pro gay marriage propaganda, yet again some “star” or “celebrity”.

    This time its Gandalf wanting to get married in Middle Earth.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10851222

    Granted, the fantasy fiction theme is very appropriate for the gay ‘marriage’ cause.

    • weka 14.1
      1 December 2012 at 12:55 pm

      Hate to tell you this, but he’s not really Gandalf.

    • Chalupa Batman 14.2
      1 December 2012 at 12:58 pm

      If gays want to get married then good on them

    • millsy 14.3
      1 December 2012 at 1:07 pm

      What is with your intrusion into the bedrooms of consenting adults.

      If Mckellen wants to marry his beau when what business is it of yours? There are greater threats to society than a couple of old queens wanting to exchange vows.

    • QoT 14.4
      1 December 2012 at 1:24 pm

      So you think one of the world’s greatest actors isn’t really a celebrity because he’s gay. Interesting.

    • Brett Dale 14.5
      1 December 2012 at 2:53 pm

      If gay people want to get married, what business is it of yours to say they cant.

    • RedBlooded 14.6
      1 December 2012 at 3:08 pm

      Wow, Freud would have a field day working out your fixation with “The Gays” and marriage K_P. Whatever gets you up in the morning I suppose. I was surprised after Keys hatred of “Gay” Red Shirts that he was quite cosy mincing down the “Gay” Red Carpet. Anything for Lord Peter Jackson eh.

  15. Rogue Trooper 15
    1 December 2012 at 1:13 pm

    MCKellan is a very, very talented man, and after checking out the MSM papers, it is always
    uplifting to read The Standard.

    -Shelley

  16. Benghazi 16
    1 December 2012 at 4:23 pm

    Good heavens! The NZ Herald is reporting that the NZ Council is letting Tamihere reapply for party membership. It just doesn’t make sense for the Party heirachy to bend over backwards to ensure all natural justice for Tamihere compared with none for David Cunliffe. Maybe they should have spent the money for some decent legal opinions focussing Tamihere’s behaviour and statements against the test for party membership. Probably the Council was more influenced by Shearer’s support for his mate.

    But its sure as heck not feeling like the Labour Party is the political party for me anymore.

    • RedLogix 16.2
      1 December 2012 at 4:32 pm

      The world is either being run by some very clever people who are taking the piss; or imbeciles who mean it.

      I’m assuming Mr ‘Front Bum’ will get rushed into an electorate seat to bolster David Shearer’s numbers.

      • Colonial Viper 16.2.1
        1 December 2012 at 4:45 pm

        Rushed to the top of the list, more like.

        • Olwyn 16.2.1.1
          1 December 2012 at 5:14 pm

          I have had a gut full of this! A handful of Labour caucus members who do not want the Labour Party to be the Labour Party but do not want to go away either, and determinedly go on making room for their flunkies. Is there something we can do about it as members, apart from get very angry, and work out whether to vote Mana or Green? I can even imagine the Greens beating Labour in the next election, and Labour forming a coalition with National to keep the riff raff out. What lengths will these mediocrities go to in order to keep their places among “the people in the know.”

          • muzza 16.2.1.1.1
            1 December 2012 at 6:24 pm

            Is there something we can do about it as members, apart from get very angry, and work out whether to vote Mana or Green?

            Hi Olwyn, I enjoy your comments, and its interesting to read the frustration in your words leaping off the screen of this one.

            You could try going to police about the fact that there are criminal elements inside the LP, but it would not go very far, because, well the cops are bent too. Of course JT is wanted inside the LP by certain factions, he’s a natural fit given whats currently going on! The bloke is mates and more with Clint Rickards FFS, among others, and supported his application as a duty solicitor.
            How is it that these types of people are controlling our world, and they continue to be elevated, or pulled back in, either way, they influence our lives? The answer should be self evident by now surely!

            Hearing LP members being driven to consider voting elsewhere is exactly what is wanted, because voting for them, achieves the same thing.

            I’m really not sure what the solution is, but I do know that options narrowing, quickly!

          • BM 16.2.1.1.2
            1 December 2012 at 8:05 pm

            Labour going into coalition with National, wow, what a great moment in NZ history that would be.
            We can only dream.

    • seeker 16.3
      1 December 2012 at 7:27 pm

      Benghazi@4.23pm my son said the same thing to me today too. He’s only voted twice, the third time he will apparently party vote Green.

    • BM 16.4
      1 December 2012 at 8:00 pm

      I’d vote for Mr ‘Front Bum”
      I like the cut of his jib.

      • McFlock 16.4.1
        1 December 2012 at 8:04 pm

        Exactly why his application should have been turned down.

        • BM 16.4.1.1
          1 December 2012 at 8:07 pm

          Why?, JT appeals to a tremendous amount of people out there, he’s a real asset to Labour.
          Get him a seat to run in as soon as possible, the New Lynn seat’s coming free, stick him in that.

          • karol 16.4.1.1.1
            1 December 2012 at 8:11 pm

            Yet when he ran for Mayor in west Auckland, long term mayor Bob Harvey still won – and at a time when many would have gone for someone different and younger, if only they had an alternative to vote for  with more cred with the voters than JT.

          • McFlock 16.4.1.1.2
            1 December 2012 at 8:19 pm

            Because his politics and personal beliefs are obviously “socially conservative”, or (to put it into the patois of the streets) “fucked in the head and a hundred years out of date”.
                     
            He should join National, or Density’s front organisation. He’ll get on okay with those equally atavistic folk. But even from a purely practical point of view, why would any party want as a member someone who publicly disenfranchises (even loathes) more than half of its other members and voters?
                   
            Left wing, even by pretension only, parties need to display integrity to their policies and principles. Giving jobs to shiny clowns just to get the small-minded vote is what tory parties do (not being as hobbled by principles or adherence to policy, of course). 

    • tazirev 16.5
      1 December 2012 at 9:19 pm

      Having just rejoined after many years in the wilderness I am gutted once again by the blatant disregard of the memberships wants and needs, I’m back off the greens again as an even more committed activist, what next for Labour, maybe Michael Lhaws will be invited to join as well!!

  17. Benghazi 17
    1 December 2012 at 5:23 pm

    I guess the next thing we’ll hear is that King/Mallard have promised Tamihere the New Lynn seat. Olwyn – I just don’t know what we can do – I feel so powerless to stop Labour heading away from my values.

    Strategically, I think I’ll hang on till February in case a member vote on the leadership is triggered. I think such a vote would pull everyone together and we could unite behind the leader whoever that was.

    But the Council are a disgrace – they need to stop being so weak. I’d heard Grant Robertson has been stacking his people onto Council and LECs up and down the country – it seems to be coming true. If there is no member vote in the New Year, I’ll walk after that. I’ve had a gutsful too! And this Labour Party has moved too far away for me to embrace.

  18. JazzaBelle 18
    1 December 2012 at 5:32 pm

    A swing to the right. A swing to the lowest common denominator. Victory for red-necks. If Robertson thinks that Tamahere will win votes in west Auckland he is a fool. We already have a good voting count. Westies remember that Tamahere walked from the Teust with $190k after tax the last time .
    The labour leadership has lost the plot.

    • karol 18.1
      1 December 2012 at 6:59 pm

      As a Westie (one who didn’t vote for Tamihere as mayor – ABT), I am pretty disgusted – well will be if he is selected as a candidate.  He abused the Labour Party during the Conference – and indulged in some gleeful gay-baiting.  I haven’t seen Cunliffe do anything like that.

      • RedLogix 18.1.1
        1 December 2012 at 7:40 pm

        Yes, that has to be the point.

        When you consider how Cunliffe has been punished for doing so much for Labour, and how Tamihere is being rewarded for blatant destructiveness …. there is only one possible interpretation, deliberate provocation.

        I’m thinking that the right-wing caucus faction is quite happy to burn off as much left-wing membership as possible before the February election.

        • Olwyn 18.1.1.1
          1 December 2012 at 8:58 pm

          According to Scott Hamilton, it is more a clique than a faction:

          “Where a faction organises in the open, and tries to win a majority of a party to its views, a clique operates secretly and undemocratically.”

          http://www.readingthemaps.blogspot.co.nz/2012/11/labour-and-f-word.html

          These people know that they cannot win on argument, so they resort to bullying and manipulation.

        • Anne 18.1.1.2
          1 December 2012 at 9:03 pm

          I’m thinking that the right-wing caucus faction is quite happy to burn off as much left-wing membership as possible before the February election.

          Well, they’re in for a shock then aren’t they. Everybody is hanging in there for the February election, and there’s even more left-wingers who have just joined the Party.

      • Benghazi 18.1.2
        1 December 2012 at 7:46 pm

        karol there are two systems of justice in play in the Labour Party at present. The justice meted out to those inside the King/Mallard leadership club, and that imposed on those on the outer. The real pity is that there is no effective check and balance against this by the Labour Party President et al of the Council. Shame on them all. And the Labour Party won’t be a sorted force to be rekoned with in an election until this double standard is weeded out. Unfortunately Shearer is now fully implicated – no hiding behind the King/Mallard apron on this. If you were waiting to see we’re Shearer would lead…..have you got the pattern yet?

      • seeker 18.1.3
        1 December 2012 at 7:56 pm

        +1 karol and jazzabelle and Benghazi @17.

        Have been wondering why John Armstrong was praising Shearer so cloyingly today in the Herald. Wasn’t Robertson said to be the one Labour person to get on well with The Gallery? Is his relationship with them so good that there some hidden agenda or a ‘reached understanding between certain parties’ such that one David can be so hammered by the media for apparently doing nothing,whilst Shearer is praised to the heights for an average speech by autocue and now Armstrong penning this oddity http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10851136 Not to mention the strange return of JT.

        So many things about the caucus since the Labour Conference are beginning to seem ‘not quite right’ or maybe ‘too right’ if you will excuse the pun. Is there a hidden Game (of Thrones) Plan, and why?

        • Benghazi 18.1.3.1
          1 December 2012 at 8:16 pm

          I think Grant Robertson’s relationship with the Gallery is actually just a referral from the right faction boss Annette King. King has been “feeding” and “grooming” John Armstrong, Vernon Small and Claire Trevett for a long time.

          It is a very interesting exercise to look back on each of these Gallery journalists articles – you can see clear patterns in their reporting. I’ve always considered Small and Trevett to be lightweights but once upon a time I had some respect for John Armstrong. But even he doesn’t seem able to find an original thought in the past year.

          • Rhinocrates 18.1.3.1.1
            1 December 2012 at 9:38 pm

            Looks like Robertson has decided that he is the embodiment of all the true Labour ideals and so therefore everything he does to ensure his leadership of the party is justified. Omelettes and eggs and so on. He forgets that when you say that the means justifies the end, you forget that the means is the end.

          • Ad 18.1.3.1.2
            1 December 2012 at 10:42 pm

            if it is that hard to prize open the grip of those usual suspects in both the Labour caucus and the mainstream media, what is the point of a challenge in February 2014? Surely a loss would be turned into a win, a win turned into a loss.

  19. Rogue Trooper 19
    1 December 2012 at 5:35 pm

    yes I saw that they have “approved” JT *sigh*. anyway NSW “above normal Max temp and fire season
    also,
    but then “I’m only happy when it rains…pour your misery down on me…Garbage.

    BBC-Assange “Swedes have their heads in the ground”

    Senior U.S Republican source-the fiscal cliff regulation agreements (not) “are really going nowhere”
    Last minute folks, roll up…roll up…

    furthermore on CNN,” disappointing U.S and Eurozone economic figures”

    RT-“The Electronic Intifada” hmmmm.

    Endgame in the M.E.? Israel on the defensive; and we all know how a dog behaves when it’s cornered.

    meanwhile, on SKY; “growing threat of U.S storms occuring; naturally occuring exceptional period of
    Hurricanes (“and I’m gettin blown away…I am just a dreamer but you are just a dream…you could have been any thing to me) AND Climate Change, oh well, it’s not like there haven’t been signs!

    ol’ Bri-“there goes His Hero…watch him as he burns”

    The Breeders? “Cannonball”; is that a Deal Kim?

    More Horror Road Crashes…say no more

    Tamihere in. Now there is something to think about.

    Arm was strong heralding the “power of the state to build houses” as scribed by the Parker Pen

    (not a fan of “chippy” but then what would i know)

    “Shot down in flames…aint it a shame…to be shot down in flames…yet we could always build a RONs

  20. Benghazi 20
    1 December 2012 at 5:51 pm

    I hear Shearer strongly supports Tamihere. Reckon Shearer’s game plan is he needs a Maori on his front bench and Tamihere is the one.

    • Crimson Tide 20.1
      1 December 2012 at 6:05 pm

      I’ve made my calls over the last hour and this seems to be correct. Grant Robertson also spoke strongly in favour of giving Tamihere another chance.

      In addition to courting the Maori vote, the strategy appears to be to help Labour cast off any remaining image of being ‘bleeding heart’ left wing. Jones and Tamihere to be given wide latitude in this.

      I can’t help thinking that this call from the leadership is misguided.

      • karol 20.1.1
        1 December 2012 at 7:01 pm

        It’s an insult to women and gays for the LP leadership to even consider having Tamihere stand!  Definitely misguided.  No principles! Anything to get elected and keep their status in the LP.

  21. Benghazi 21
    1 December 2012 at 6:13 pm

    Yes its part of a concerted strategy by the Leadership team and its puppeteers (King/Mallard) to take Labour to the right. Roger Douglas must be laughing out loud today.

    And that silly, weak Moira Coatsworth says its about “the need to be a party in unity and move on together” (TV3 News tonight). When did Tamihere EVER contribute to unity in the Party?!!!!

  22. belladonna 22
    1 December 2012 at 6:40 pm

    If that sexist and animal abuser is in the Labour Party then I am no longer a Labour supporter. I will be voting Greens unless David Cunliffe gets in and shows a fraction of the common sense of the idiots in the party at present.

    • karol 22.1
      1 December 2012 at 7:29 pm

      Well, I have been content to vote Green while waiting for Labour to become a credible left wing party again, i.e. promoting social justice for all sections of the community rather than pandering to the middle-class neoliberal media.  

      So, now, in order to try to attract a section of the community they haven’t supported well-enough fr a while, they want to jettison another section of the community – but not their allegiance to the media & neoliberal consensus.  They are truly a confused bunch.

      If Tamihere stands as a candidate in West Auckland, I’ll do something I’ve never done before – join a party (the Greens) and go out on the streets campaigning for them.  That’s how angry the idea of a return of Tamihere makes me.

      • liberty 22.1.1
        2 December 2012 at 11:05 am

        Why what’s wrong with Tamihere?
        John will be a lifeline for the party when it has it leadership election in February.
        As the labour party has got no one else.

  23. Rogue Trooper 23
    1 December 2012 at 7:19 pm

    well, just for a Rogue opinion, this “Tamihere” thing is not going to end well; might as well have pulled
    the pin and placed said pin between teeth; Jesus Wept, but what would he know as Benghazi is suggesting? A big fat diabetic NO to JT is my opionion; this is going to end in tears and that is my last
    word on the matter; very sad day, yet he is not a candidate yet God Help us 🙂

    meanwhile, Christchurch does not appear well at all, not at all, no Siree Gerry.

    meanwhile, a new level of “ruthlessness” in Syria and TPTB have shut the “net” down; suplise suplise.

    meanwhile, great infrastructure support for East Timor from China, God Bless China and the CCP
    (we look forward to the third-year plan implementation)
    🙂

  24. JazzaBelle 24
    1 December 2012 at 7:45 pm

    To select Tamahere and demote Cunliffe in the one month is a direct snub to the working class credentials of Labour.
    To suggest Tamahere is there to encourage a racially and tolerant image for Labour is a joke. He appeals to pakeha rednecks who will never vote for a left Labour.

    This is direct challenge to the ethnic Sector, Carmel Sepuloni, David Cunliffe and all the members who voted for a modern open democratic Labour Party.

    Shearer and Robertson must think the Conference was a vote of confidence in their stunning performance of the past year
    Shearer and Ribrrtson must think the Caucus 100% vote meant they had won control back from the members!

    NO, NO. NO.
    Shearer and Robertson are in for a wake-up call.

    They ate arrogant fools.

    • seeker 24.1
      1 December 2012 at 8:14 pm

      I am afraid you are quite correct Jazzabelle. My gut instinct to turn from Shearer after his unjust and distasteful actions last week is now justified. He showed his true colours then and now others are being revealed to be wearing his mark and it is not the mark or colour of the type of person I can support let alone unite with. Moira Coatsworth is whistling in the wind as far as I am concerned. I feel sure nothing good is going to come of this. If it is possible I will vote accordingly in February.

  25. Benghazi 25
    1 December 2012 at 8:03 pm

    I’m not so sure they are in for a wake up call! King/Mallard have a very firm and vicious grip. And the Leadership team does whatever they suggest because they don’t actually have the skills to lead.

    And why? Because King/Mallard do not qualify for a Parliamentary pension. They cannot afford to leave their Parliamentary incomes for a goodly while.

    King/Mallard are poisonous and the Party hierachy needs to grow a spine and rise up and challenge them.

    • Rhinocrates 25.1
      1 December 2012 at 9:57 pm

      I don’t know about the hierarchy (I do – they don’t have a spine), but the party membership has always had a spine and it did indeed rise up. Fingers crossed for the coming months.

  26. Draco T Bastard 26
    1 December 2012 at 8:09 pm

    Found this an interesting read:

    The way we’ve been trained to serve often renders us as little more than machines that do given tasks, and it cuts us off from what it is to truly give of ourselves both to our own beings and to others.

    We need to see each other. I really believe that that is the only way to save the planet from whatever mass destructions we can forecast, be they political, economic, or environmental. We need to know each other, and not just the broad, dissociative stuff we put out there to appeal to what we think most people will like most of the time, but what lies beneath that.

    Still mulling it over so I’m not going to give any personal insights.

    • karol 26.1
      1 December 2012 at 8:21 pm

      Thanks DTB.  I take it to mean we need to know ourselves, and to not be afraid of offending by being who we are, in order to truly communicate with and understand others.

      So I don’t feel quite so bad about commenting in anger,re Tamihere and the confused principles of Labour tonight…. though that may just be self-serving. 

  27. joe90 27
    1 December 2012 at 8:26 pm

    Interesting article on the Egyptian constitution.

    Why is Egypt’s draft constitution so controversial?.

  28. Draco T Bastard 28
    1 December 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Let’s Be the Best FOR the World, Not IN the World

    True Price asks several questions about ubiquitous products, (e.g. food items, clothing and electronics, etc.):

    1. Is this item a want or a need?
    2. What are the effects of this item, both positive and negative, on you as a consumer, on other people, on animals, and on the environment?
    3. What systems perpetuate this item?
    4. What would be an alternative that does more good and less harm, and if no such alternatives exist, what systems would need to change to make alternatives commonplace?

    All such good questions and likely that most couldn’t answer them but I found this paragraph most interesting:

    Almost every time I do this activity at U.S. teachers’ conferences, some audience members feel flummoxed by the challenge of bringing such an activity into their curricula. Forced to teach to seemingly endless standardized tests, many cannot see how such a multidisciplinary, critical and creative thinking activity could fit into the requirements they must fulfill, even though the exploration of these items and the process of answering these questions can fit beautifully and powerfully into language arts, science, math, health and social studies courses. Exploring such questions can also become an elective or add greater educational meaning and purpose to courses in economics, geography, psychology, environmental science, ethics and more.

    Because that is exactly where National Standards will take us. To a point where even the teachers won’t be able to comprehend the world around them.

    • weka 28.1
      1 December 2012 at 11:17 pm

      Nice link. I”m trying to think of the last thing I bought and then asking the questions. Defining what is a need and what is a want is tricky. Needs that maintain current standard of living, or needs that ensure survival, or something in between?

  29. gobsmacked 29
    1 December 2012 at 10:14 pm

    John Tamihere, the “candidate from hell” …

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/141128/Candidate-from-hell-Tamihere-linked-with-Nats

    There are hundreds of other links on Tamihere but I guess the Labour hierarchy don’t have Google.

    The archive on his Radio Live rants will be keeping the Nats’ hit squad busy and happy – some really nasty stuff. The only possible defence would have been “it was a long time ago, he’s turned over a new leaf” – and yes, in theory anybody could .

    Except Tamihere was attacking Labour only a few days ago (“headhunters gang” etc). He hasn’t changed, and it’s not even clear that the idiots in charge want him to.

    • Ad 29.1
      1 December 2012 at 10:51 pm

      Tamihere has money, staff, volunteers, position, networks, and major media access.

      and that winning smile for the girls.

      that adds up to the capacity to take Dr Sharples out pretty easy.

      Either National or Labour would find him candidate material in those circumstances.

      Perhaps like Jones he is more suited to National. So for that reason alone Labour choose to keep them.

      Or perhaps rather Shearer needs someone to shore up his numbers once Beaumont replaces Jones after the Auditer-General’s report is out.

      Also odd that Twyford is supporting Tamihere throughout. Is Twyford trying to take out Sepulina in Waitakere selection with Tamihere? Quite a darkness in operation there, a chilled dish of revenge served.

      • karol 29.1.1
        2 December 2012 at 7:14 am

        *Groan*  Twyford is supporting Tamihere?  If so, that increases the reasons for me getting active and becoming a Green Party member.  Twyford is my MP.  Sepuloni is still a more promising candidate for Waitakere than Tamihere, IMO.  She came within a whisker last time.  And since then all we’ve seen is Bennett’s vicious attacks on the least powerful.

        Is Labour just becoming the Men’s Party? 

        And Tamihere is a big supporter of Charter Schools. 

  30. Draco T Bastard 30
    1 December 2012 at 10:34 pm

    There are many a true saying!

    Why is it that no-one in government or in the Treasury will answer two straight forward questions?

    1. Why is it acceptable for commercial banks to create money that did not previously exist, out of thin air, but not acceptable for the Bank of England to create that same money, not as a debt, but as a credit?

    2. When debt it is what funds the economy, can they explain how you grow the economy whilst cutting debt?

    Answer those questions and you are on the way to solving Britain’s financial problems.

    The same goes for NZ.

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