Open mike 02/11/2014

Written By: - Date published: 7:11 am, November 2nd, 2014 - 179 comments
Categories: open mike - Tags:

keep-calm-and-stay-left-10Open mike is your post.

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Step up to the mike …

179 comments on “Open mike 02/11/2014 ”

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  1. CnrJoe 1
    2 November 2014 at 7:18 am

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11351835

    Where to start with this load. Since you’re reading this Rodney you ‘junkie’ – After using John Keys ‘force of nature’ line you (Hide) write ‘His blog is one man’s opinion, raw and unedited’. And No. It is written by sooo many people, or ‘actors’ – often under WhaleOils name. Read a book, lets see, perhaps – Dirty Politics ?
    The absolute zinger tho’ – ‘Key is responsible for every aspect of government, every minister, every policy decision, every bit of spending’. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha . Minister of Brain Fades, Leader of TranzRail Eyes and Moonbeams jailer? That the one ?

    • Paul 1.1
      2 November 2014 at 8:00 am

      Hide was mentioned in Dirty Politics.
      No wonder he wants the story to move on. The reason why this story isn’t being reported is that Slater, Lusk, Ede, Williams, Odgers and Key have stuff on them which will be released if they publish.

      If Key were responsible for every minister and policy, he would have resigned by now.
      But then he has so many persona we just don’t know who he is.

      • CnrJoe 1.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 8:04 am

        And the Herald keep courting him . YES. You Granny. Ffs.

        • Paul 1.1.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 8:37 am

          The Herald is implicated heavily in Dirty Politics.
          Glucina
          Savage
          O’Sullivan

          And the coincidental hagiography of Key by Roughan.

          • Paul 1.1.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 8:41 am

            This is the best article I have read on the subject since the election.
            http://bat-bean-beam.blogspot.com/2014/10/dirty-journalism.html

          • ankerawshark 1.1.1.1.2
            2 November 2014 at 9:08 am

            Paul @ 1.1.1.1 I suspect Audrey Y too. Remember the “Cunliffe organises meeting with sex offender” article. Picture of Cunliffe and the Dipton candidate.

            Why I suspect AY is because Whale Oil was doing articles on this high profile sex offender who had/has name suppression. The fact that DC set up a meeting with him was completely irrelevant and a smear.

            • Paul 1.1.1.1.2.1
              2 November 2014 at 9:11 am

              And Armstrong’s resign article on Cunliffe was suspicious.
              Had all the hallmarks of a hit.

              • ankerawshark …
                2 November 2014 at 9:27 am

                Paul @ .1.1.1.1.2.3

                Yes Armstrongs “Cunliffe must resign” I wonder what has happened in terms of Frank MC fantastic work taking that to the Press Council. From memory the Herald had said there was more to come on the Dong Liu donations as part of their defence. Guess what! Nothing more has come.

                By the way, thanks so much for that great link to bat, bean, beam. Is that Giovanni Tiso?

              • Olwyn …
                2 November 2014 at 11:24 am

                While I do not think that the parties on the left do “dirty politics” on this level, I do think that meddling from the media/right wing/Slater quarter has played its part in the ructions within Labour. The alarm bells began for me when Shearer was appointed leader with Hooton’s blessing. Then there has been the symbiotic relationship between the Labour leakers and the Cunliffe denigrators, not to mention the ambivalent attitude of many MP’s when the media turned on Cunliffe with a vengeance.

                Whoever wins this leadership election will need to exert firm discipline over MP’s connections with the media. The Labour Party is simply not strong enough right now to have the upper hand in this relationship, and needs to treat it with great caution. It is better, long term, to be disliked by the media and fight back, than to be relatively powerless members of a political/media “in-group” whose motivation is to advantage the right.

                • Anne …
                  2 November 2014 at 12:46 pm

                  …the symbiotic relationship between the Labour leakers and the Cunliffe denigrators, not to mention the ambivalent attitude of many MP’s when the media turned on Cunliffe with a vengeance.

                  I suspect the ambiivalent attitude is, in part at least, due to some MPs being too afraid to go against the right wing element in caucus – not that any of them would admit it of course. For example: someone like Cosgrove who I imagine could be a quite a bully-boy if he felt so inclined. They still have the upper hand, and we saw during the Shearer leadership what happened to non-compliant caucus colleagues… they were banished to the back-bench wilderness.

                  • Karen …
                    2 November 2014 at 1:00 pm

                    I agree about Cosgrove. I found his statement that he would know if his wife was operating a twitter account quite chilling. The fact that he was given such a high place on the list indicates he has backing within the caucus however.

                    My gut feeling is that Little has the best chance of getting discipline in the caucus, but I may be wrong.

                    • Olwyn …
                      2 November 2014 at 1:20 pm

                      If no one does assert that discipline, respect for the party will continue to dwindle. Sucking up to the media might help some of them to score internal points, but contributes to the continued weakening of the party as a whole. Even if they think, we need the media on side so we can win over the big donors, the conclusion does not follow if your methods diminish the stature of your party.

                    • chris73 …
                      2 November 2014 at 2:46 pm

                      Lets face it unless *insert potential leader here* has the support of caucus its going to be the same old same old no matter what the unions or membership want

  2. phillip ure 2
    2 November 2014 at 8:06 am

    (i’ll betcha ya didn’t know it is world vegan day…eh..?..eat up..!..)

    “..From Mediterranean Tomato Tart to Raw Caramel Peanut Pie: Recipes for World Vegan Day..

    ..These delicious recipes don’t need meat or dairy..”

    (cont..)

    http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/from-mediterranean-tomato-tart-to-raw-caramel-peanut-pie-recipes-for-world-vegan-day-9831502.html

    • miravox 2.1
      2 November 2014 at 11:02 am

      “These delicious recipes don’t need meat or dairy..”

      No recipes for vegan hamburger buns and pastry? Otherwise, nice as they are, these are simply vegetarian as far as i can see. Maybe one or two of your own recipes would be a better advert for world vegan day?

      • Belladonna 2.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 11:23 am

        Your supermarket has vegan pastry. I think it is called NuWay and has vegetarian written across the top. I dont eat a lot of bread products but am fairly sure ciabatta buns are vegan and also many breads are also. The recipes look really nice.

        • miravox 2.1.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 11:36 am

          They do look nice – that’s why I was wondering about the pastry and buns. I can’t get the NuWay pastry where I am, but will check the ciabatta, thanks.

          • phillip ure 2.1.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 2:11 pm

            most commercial breads are now vegan..(i can sense you all glowering at yr breadboxes in surprise/alarm..go check the ingredients-label..)

            ..they all used to have dairy..but most have now flagged it..

            ..(ha-ha-ha..!..this is all part of a/our fiendish vegan-plot for global-domination..

            ..first we came for yr bread..(and we’ve nearly got all that..)

            ..next will be the lab-grown meat that will soon be popping up in yr hotdogs/hamburger-patties..

            ..(cue fading cackling-laughter..)

            ..we are the future..

            • miravox 2.1.1.1.1.1
              3 November 2014 at 12:25 am

              Why so sarcastic? I commented in good faith. You’ve commented a lot about your great tasting food, I didn’t see why you presented a link to what could possibly be vegetarian rather than vegan, instead of providing one of your own favourites, is all.

              “(i can sense you all glowering at yr breadboxes in surprise/alarm..go check the ingredients-label..)”

              Yup. Did. Eggs/Dairy in the bread we buy. Having said that, it’s not NZ sliced, it’s euro loose rolls. No probs – I’ll find a recipe for dairy/egg-free.

              However the pastry issue is still there. The only thing I can think of to make vegan puff pastry is hard margarine… and that’s trans-fats.

      • phillip ure 2.1.2
        2 November 2014 at 5:02 pm

        @ miravox..

        ..you ask..i deliver..

        http://whoar.co.nz/?s=recipies

        (more than enough to be getting on with..)

    • chris73 2.2
      2 November 2014 at 12:49 pm

      For a different view try this:

    • Murray Rawshark 2.3
      2 November 2014 at 7:19 pm

      Coincidentally, I might not eat meat today. You can still despise me if you like. I had milk with my Weetbix and some goat cheese spread.

      • phillip ure 2.3.1
        2 November 2014 at 8:23 pm

        @ murray..

        ..i don’t ‘despise’ many people..

        ..and certainly not for reasons like that..

        ..do you know why people are so defensive on this issue..?

        ..after all..i am only the messanger..giving you the information/warnings..

        ..the facts speak for themselves..

        ..and tho’ the news may make some uncomfortable..that is their issue..

        ..and they should ask themselves why it makes them so uncomfortable/defensive..

        ..and don’t forget..

        ..i was raised on meat and three veg..

        ..and alcohol was the first addiction i dove into enthusiastically and then shed..

        ..many/most don’t even get to that point..

        ..a life without alcohol for them is unimaginable..

  3. Chooky 3
    2 November 2014 at 9:00 am

    An honest look at the absolute horrors of FRACKING for human health and the environment ! ‘Frack Us!’ should be seen by EVERY New Zealander!…This is what John Key and the Nacts have in store for us! This is NOT democracy for New Zealanders . This is Corporate control. In France , Germany , Bulgaria and other European countries fracking has been banned!

    (You wont get this on New Zealand television …especially since they have dismantled Maori TV)

    http://rt.com/shows/documentary/194476-us-fracking-harm-environment/

    “Is fracking safe? The industry claims every precaution is taken to ensure that no harm is done to the environment by the gas extraction process. However, many US citizens who live near newly-built sites are convinced that their water and air has been contaminated, and is now radioactive and poisonous. Fish in the rivers are dying and garden trees are shrivelling and the people themselves are complaining of inexplicable rashes and respiratory illness. They aim to prove that fracking is the cause, but who’s listening?”

    • Foreign waka 3.1
      2 November 2014 at 11:44 am

      And where are the “guardians” of this land and their comments? Oh yes, forgot, a few blankets from Mr Key and all is well. The awakening will come when their rights have diminished and their land has been poisoned.

      • Chooky 3.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 1:01 pm

        Maori are standing up against fracking in Taranaki

        http://www.massivemagazine.org.nz/blog/566/fracking-the-deeper-you-dig-the-darker-it-gets/

        http://maoriparty.org/panui/maori-party-welcomes-report-on-drilling-for-oil-and-gas-in-new-zealand-environmental-oversight-and-regulation/

        ….and what are the views of corporations like Nga Tahu?

        …we know where the Greens stand…but what about Labour and NZF?…..Is the Maori Party prepared to oppose the Nact govt on this?

        Todd Oil Corporation must be held to account…and any other companies drilling and fracking in Taranaki and anywhere else in New Zealand

        • Foreign waka 3.1.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 1:44 pm

          Unfortunately, it is the rich upper class within Maori being well at home with the Neo cons as tribalism fits so neatly. The Todd family is one of the first settler families in NZ and as such the hidden “royalty”. Therefore, there will be no change, perhaps softening on the edges but no change. NZ, being a very young country seems to have to go through its own collective memory of self destruct before they know what it means to be a community for all not just the selected. Fear of the future is the new sense of being. Image that, instead of looking forward with hope and positivity. What will the next generation be like with such mindset?

          • b waghorn 3.1.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 1:54 pm

            Yes the historians love to make it look like people came here to escape the tyrants in there home lands but it’s always been a race to grab as much as can be got .

          • marty mars 3.1.1.1.2
            2 November 2014 at 3:37 pm

            what have YOU done about it foreign?

          • alwyn 3.1.1.1.3
            2 November 2014 at 4:06 pm

            “The Todd family is one of the first settler families in NZ”.

            You seem to have a rather odd definition of what is “first” and what is “royalty” in New Zealand’s early days.
            The Todds arrived quite late in the piece really. By the time they got here the early European settlers had been here for nearly half a century. They also didn’t really fit the image of New Zealand “royalty” as being the station-owners either.
            From Wikipedia we are told that the first member of the family came here

            “in 1885, when Scottish immigrant Charles Todd founded opened either a wool scoring business (according to Todd Energy) or a rural goods store in Central Otago”

            • Foreign waka 3.1.1.1.3.1
              2 November 2014 at 5:18 pm

              The Todd Family has arrived in 1870 in Dunedin and was amongst other things involved with the gold mining in Otago.
              It was Wakefield who wanted to bring “rich” settlers to NZ and started to organize in early 1820. His money run out at about 1840 and he resumed at late 1840/early 1850’s. The NZ Land wars in 1860 certainly weren’t an encouragement to people to settle. The wealthy wanted some infrastructure to settle into too, not bush land where ones life is in constant danger. So the settlement process was spread over some decades.

        • Murray Rawshark 3.1.1.2
          2 November 2014 at 7:31 pm

          Te Whanau a Apanui out around East Cape are very much against drilling and fracking. Remember Elvis Teddy? The Maori I know up North are as well. With Tuhoe, who knows what Tama Iti will come up with?

          Labour’s position seems to be the same as National’s, except that they will make a genuine request to the companies to be careful. Mana are dead against drilling and fracking.

      • marty mars 3.1.2
        2 November 2014 at 3:31 pm

        where are the guardians? where they have always been guardianing – the blankets have been coming a long time and resistance has been even longer – but please keep impotently standing there saying “what about them, what about them…” I’m sure it’s easier than owning the little you have done about anything – feel free to put me right tho.

        • Foreign waka 3.1.2.1
          2 November 2014 at 5:11 pm

          Marty, the observation is not just mine. Many people familiar with the NZ political past and present will agree with what I wrote (foreign or not). The question is not so much what I do about it but rather Maori and their hierarchical tribe elders will do. Obviously the first defense when being asked is attack. The ball is in the Maoris court and certainly not mine.

          • marty mars 3.1.2.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 5:51 pm

            Yeah nah sorry you and your ‘many people’ are barking up the wrong tree. Firstly many Māori have been fighting the exploitation of the land (and fracking is just the latest iteration) from the earliest days. Secondly some Māori haven’t been fighting it – this wide spread of viewpoint is typical of any population regardless of ethnicity. Thirdly why should it all fall on Māori to be the spear point and fight them, why should those advantaged by their imposed system get to sit there saying, “What are the Maoris doing?” when they themselves do zero. The social system of Māori has nothing to do with it, especially when that system has been under constant and sustained attack since you know when. You need to be truthful, at least with yourself, and see if you can glean an insight as to why you think someone else should do the hard work for your personal benefit – consider that a half-volley back to your left corner 🙂

            • Foreign waka 3.1.2.1.1.1
              3 November 2014 at 6:58 pm

              Well, I vote green so that my vote is in a small way adding to at least a chance to stop this mayhem. I do not point the finger at the average person but rather at the now very much in the money rich upper class that Maoridom has developed. All eyes are on the leadership and alas some big disappointment is at hand. No use of having cigarettes banned by 2050 if the country’s water and land is toxic. Now, I am not sure where the priorities are but the party that represents mainstream Maori has chosen to stay with Mr Key. And, forgive me when I say this openly, political correctness is certainly not what will help the cause.
              Also, I have chosen to live here because of the so called clean and green image (yeeeees?). I have never expected someone else to do my work, belief you me. In all the decades in NZ I have never (ever) asked for a single cent to support me or my endeavors. I belief in that regard I have more contributed by paying my tax without swindling my way through the tax credit haven.

  4. phillip ure 4
    2 November 2014 at 9:45 am

    watching q&a…

    ..tau henare is about as lucid as mike moore..

    ..and peters is just a fucken opportunistic-idiot…

    ..(his little self-satisfied smirk at the end of the interview..speaking volumes to his cynical/scare-mongering-manipulations..)

    ..does he do it for the cheap-publicity..?..

    ..(that question is rhetorical..)

    • Foreign waka 4.1
      2 November 2014 at 1:46 pm

      Is Tau Henare be one of those who benefit from the privatization of welfare?

      • phillip ure 4.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 2:17 pm

        he’ll be queuing for some cheap state-houses…(helps with the pension-portfolio..)

        ..lot’s of thos fucken mp’s will be..thru their ‘trusts’..

        ..corrupt bastards..

        ..in their grand-coalition against the rest of us…

  5. Penny Bright 5
    2 November 2014 at 10:19 am

    FYI – State Housing tenants FIGHTBACK!

    2 November 2014

    MEDIA RELEASE: Sue Henry Housing Lobby “Stop the privatisation of State Housing!”

    “The social housing experiment was never going to deliver anything to Stare housing tenants, other than transience, ” says Housing Lobby Spokesperson, Sue Henry.

    “Social housing is nothing more than a backdoor mechanism to privatise massive tracts of State Housing land, and drive up rents and rates through increased property values.”

    “The intent was clearly evident in the NZ Herald ‘Infrastructure’ liftout, pg D6, headed ‘A place to call home,’ 19 August 2014.

    “In this article, in several paragraphs, it makes reference to using Housing NZ in areas such as Tamaki to leverage up the value of the land.

    (Quote) ‘However, perhaps the greatest financial benefit of such initiatives is that open market sales can leverage high land values, while enabling some of the surrounding support services to be wrapped around the more dependent community.’

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11310485

    “This is precisely what the property development company and Housing NZ have done (from the corner of Eastview Rd / Castledine Crescent Glen Innes, Former State houses were removed and their replacements have transformed into properties over-valued at between $700,000 to $835,000 in a very short time frame.”

    “If this is not scandalous enough, the Tamaki area is going to endure some of the biggest rate rises in the Auckland region.”

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11345050

    (Quote) “Other big jumps occurred in Pt England (62 per cent), New Windsor (58 per cent), Glen Innes (55 per cent) and Mangere Bridge (53 per cent).”

    “The responsibility for this lies squarely at the feet of National Minister of Housing Nick Smith, and the property development company by using Housing NZ properties to effectively set the benchmark, by falsely over-inflating property values in a predominantly State Housing / low income area.”

    “We want the sale of our State Housing public asset, for which there was no electoral mandate, to cease forthwith.”

    Sue Henry
    Housing Lobby Spokesperson

  6. karol 6
    2 November 2014 at 10:22 am

    Yesterday’s Dom Post article on left wing blogs and bloggers is now online. Original hard copy title was “step away from the keyboard”. Title for the online version is: “Should Left-wing bloggers shut up?”

    • chris73 6.1
      2 November 2014 at 11:08 am

      Left wing blogs shouldn’t shut up at all as its always amusing watching them especially when they try to understand what went wrong (and never get it) 🙂

    • Anne 6.2
      2 November 2014 at 11:24 am

      Thank-you for that karol. By and large, I found it to be a good article and about as accurate and factual as the subject matter will allow. Congratulations to the Dominion Post.

      I give credit to Martyn Bradbury for admitting “he got it so wrong” but lets be honest, most of us (in our naivety) expected Dirty Politics would have a more profound impact on the outcome of the election. It still might happen as voters start to slowly assimilate the truth, but it’s up to Labour and the Greens to keep working away on it. Forget the MSM. They won’t do it. Too many of them have been compromised.

      As for Cosgrove, I’m glad he commented. He’s confirmed for me what I have long suspected… he is the caucus leaker who has been doing the most “destabilising” behind the scenes. And now he’s attempting to shift the blame on to left-wing blog-sites.

      • chris73 6.2.1
        2 November 2014 at 12:42 pm

        “most of us (in our naivety) expected Dirty Politics would have a more profound impact on the outcome of the election.”

        *Cough cough* Ahem…actually there was more than a few who thought it was merely a belt way issue

        However kudos for reading the article with an open mind

        • phillip ure 6.2.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 2:21 pm

          i stand in the glow from the wisdom of yr hindsight/regurgitated-meme…

          • chris73 6.2.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 2:28 pm

            The thing is you lot on the left were told what was going to happen in the election, were told that Cunliffe had as much charisma as a wet rag, were told Dirty Politics was a belt way issue, were told the economy would decide the election, the polls were telling you what was going to happen

            and yet somehow the election result was a big surprise…

            …eh?…

            • Foreign waka 6.2.1.1.1.1
              2 November 2014 at 3:04 pm

              Chris, your comments show such immaturity it is astonishing. Learn to accept that there is more than one theory and more than one person that can contribute to a better world. Unless of cause there is no will for a better NZ other then the one for a few. This is called in oligarchy and has nothing in common with democracy.

              • chris73 …
                2 November 2014 at 3:29 pm

                Fair enough but don’t ever say (I mean the left in general) the election result was a surprise because it wasn’t to anybody that wasn’t stuck in a left wing echo chamber

                • Colonial Rawshark …
                  2 November 2014 at 3:33 pm

                  Of course it was a surprise. Several polls had National at the 45% to 46% level. And conventional wisdom is that National usually come in 1% to 2% under what the media polls say.

                  A weakened and disunified Labour Party which made bad campaign decisions sealed the deal however. Along with IMP underestimating how much Hone would be attacked by all parties, in Te Tai Tokerau.

                  • Chooky …
                    2 November 2014 at 3:53 pm

                    which shows how much of the threat the corporates perceive Hone’s and Mana/Int ‘s influence as having on Maori/Pakeha activism imo …just as Maori tv has been neutralised because it asks the hard questions

                    ….there was also a concerted attack on David Cunliffe by the msm…because he is perceived as being his own man and an ethical one

                    ….now wait for the attacks on the Greens…they will try and take them out one by one

                    …..and of course the attacks on the Left wing blogs…blaming them for the defeat of the Left….thereby deflecting everyones’ eyes away from ‘DIRTY POLITICS PR’.John Key and friends …and a hopelessly biased corporate bought msm

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 November 2014 at 4:27 pm

                      +1111

                    • chris73 …
                      2 November 2014 at 4:34 pm

                      Well the left don’t have to make it so easy for the right do they:

                      http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11350661

                    • phillip ure …
                      2 November 2014 at 5:12 pm

                      @ chooky..

                      “..just as Maori tv has been neutralised because it asks the hard questions..”

                      maori tv hasn’t been ‘neutralised..

                      ..i think you are talking about tvnz farming out all maori/p.i programs..

                      ..different stations..different organisations..

                    • Chooky …
                      2 November 2014 at 7:43 pm

                      @ chris 73…

                      …homeopathy is used in many European countries eg Germany ( actually quite a technologically sophisticated country)….alongside pharmaceutical medicines…people are given an option.

                      ..in the absence of any outright vaccination or other cures of Ebola it seems like a sensible thing to do to try other options…and fyi …many NZ doctors are open minded to homeopathy as are many NZers

                      …you are partaking in an illegitimate beat up against a Green ( no surprises from you)

                • ankerawshark …
                  2 November 2014 at 7:51 pm

                  For some of us it was a surprize Chris because it beggered belief anyone could vote for John Key.

                  Dirty Politics,
                  No plan for growth, just relying on Dairy and the Chch rebuild.
                  Denying Child Poverty
                  Labour laws to disadvantage the most vulnerable (brought in post election)
                  Asset sales that the vast majority of NZders didn’t want
                  Flip flopping on tax cuts
                  Lying about putting up GST……………

                  I don’t have the time to continue with this.

                  BTW if your life is so great, why do you come on this site?

                  Sometimes rampant individualism can leave people isolated and lonely. Perhaps this is you?

  7. vto 7
    2 November 2014 at 11:18 am

    The dairy sector have such a strange way of measuring their place in the world ….

    “Dairy is a $17 billion export earner. Without it, our economy would go into freefall.” (sub-headline in online article today)

    Let’s try that in the exact same form elsewhere in the economy… it may help to make sense of that bizarre statement …..

    “Cities are a $150 billion chunk of our economy. Without them, our economy would go into freefall”

    Yep. Plain silly. Bizarre way to view / measure …..

    • KJT 7.1
      2 November 2014 at 12:18 pm

      Banking is a ………………? billion dollar earner. Without banks our economy would go into free-fall.

      I suspect on a strict cost benefit analysis, which takes into account externalities such as the cost of cleaning up pollution, the ongoing cost of borrowing for imports we have to take because of free trade agreements, pushing up the speculative prices of farmland, and removing it for other uses, and the drain on the rest of the economy, dairying is actually a net cost to our country.

      “If we hadn’t been so successful in farming we may have developed a real resilient and diverse economy”.

      • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 1:50 pm

        … dairying is actually a net cost to our country.

        QFT

        And so would the present banking system be a net cost to us.

        • b waghorn 7.1.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 2:50 pm

          Just out of interest how do all you anti farmers intend to feed people

          • Draco T Bastard 7.1.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 2:56 pm

            Show us where the farmers are actually feeding people cause last time I looked we have a quarter of our children and their parents going hungry due to the greed of the farmers. This despite the fact that NZ produces enough food to feed over 100 million people.

            • b waghorn 7.1.1.1.1.1
              2 November 2014 at 3:00 pm

              Are you seriously blaming what’s happening in towns and cities on farmers . I realise most farmers vote nats but act, dunne and most of nats power comes from the city voter I’ve always heard 20 million as the amount we can feed.

              • Colonial Rawshark …
                2 November 2014 at 3:29 pm

                The supermarket duopoly have a far bigger role than farmers do in wrecking our internal food provision systems.

                • b waghorn …
                  2 November 2014 at 3:37 pm

                  Yes they do I brought a steak that was priced at $28 kg we get between $3.50-$5 at the farm gate.

                  • alwyn …
                    2 November 2014 at 4:16 pm

                    Give us the full story. Those numbers, and they are a bit low, are carcasse weight prices. Out of a 200kg carcasse perhaps you would like to tell us just how many kilos of $28 steak you get?

                    • b waghorn …
                      2 November 2014 at 6:27 pm

                      Disclaimer first I’m only a shepherd the price in this week s paper is $5.15 for prime 300kg carcass and this is the best year for beef since the America s cup was here according to our stock agent I can’t find anything with % of steak on a beast but as you struggle to get mince under$10 it s safe to say a farmer gets under a third of the money and there’s an average of two years to get a animal to market .

                • Skinny …
                  2 November 2014 at 4:47 pm

                  I agree with you there CV.

                  One of the few good things Jones done in parliament was the supermarket price jacking. Little did we realise it was to raise his ‘own stocks’ with a National bribe. Handing it over to that useless prick Cosgrove probably saw as part of the deal Jones would get his mate to burry it, and he did.

                  Not only the greed in the food chain, but the quality of food is suffering too, sugar, fillers, chilled products etc. Just look at the supply and demand on our Beef which is up over 20% due to demand out of America for meat patties. The effect of a drought over there, apparently if all our cattle and sheep were slaughtered it would only feed America for 3 days. Anyway this shows how susceptible we are to the international market, notice the amount of inferior Aussie beef in the supermarket recently?

                  • Murray Rawshark …
                    2 November 2014 at 9:49 pm

                    My butcher here in Brisbane told me that most of the beef eaten in Aotearoa comes from Oz. Given the low quality of most Australian meat, I was pretty shocked by that. The lamb over here is totally bland rubbish. I really don’t know whether he’s making up stories or not, because he also said that it’s very difficult to get a permit to shoot deer in the South Island. Given that they’re a pest, I found that hard to believe.

                    On the other hand, I suppose there might be a lot fewer beef farms now that Fonterra has taken over the countryside. It’s nice of them to send Mainland cheese over here, so I can buy it for less than my sister pays in Auckland.

                  • left for deadshark …
                    2 November 2014 at 10:59 pm

                    true,@ skinny 😉

              • Draco T Bastard …
                2 November 2014 at 4:12 pm

                The farmers always blame the international price for the prices that they charge. Essentially, they’re saying that they can sell over seas for higher prices.

                And, yes, the supermarkets are also to blame or, to be more precise, capitalism is to blame and capitalism is the result of greed.

                • b waghorn …
                  2 November 2014 at 4:22 pm

                  Whats you’re solution to human greed

                  • Draco T Bastard …
                    2 November 2014 at 4:28 pm

                    Democracy. Get rid of the dictators in charge of business and government. Have the countries resources distributed by vote rather than through money and power.

                    • vto …
                      2 November 2014 at 4:52 pm

                      but those with more wouldn’t think that is fair dtb

                      don’t you realise it should be about what we have and want and not about what we need

                      greed is the driver

                      just ask rodney hide – he’s onto it

                    • b waghorn …
                      2 November 2014 at 6:34 pm

                      Unless I’ve missed something’s we’ve got democracy as flawed as it is

                    • Draco T Bastard …
                      2 November 2014 at 7:35 pm

                      We don’t have democracy in the use of our resources. That’s left to the dictators in business and that, IMO, is one of the reasons why we have poverty.

          • KJT 7.1.1.1.2
            3 November 2014 at 2:33 pm

            What makes you think I am anti-farmer?

            Industrial scale dairying doesn’t have much to do with the “family” farmers and market gardeners I think of when I think of farmers. The ones who are struggling with high borrowing costs, competition from farm, “businjesses who abuse their staff and uncertain weather.

  8. miravox 8
    2 November 2014 at 12:06 pm

    Oh the post-modern world – what a difficult place to negotiate.

    Here’s that globalisation, know your privilege and I guess intersectionality stuff rising up… and the Daily Mail, of all tabloid rags , exposes how a feminist campaign in the UK exploits female workers elsewhere who made their campaign t-shirts . I guess the DM is gleefully taking down a section of society that may impinge on it’s own privilege. Because, really, I doubt the Mail gives a s**t about workers or women (unless they’re half naked) otherwise.

    a female worker told us: ‘How can this T-shirt be a symbol of feminism when we do not see ourselves as feminists? We see ourselves as trapped.’

    …Outside we spoke to one 30-year-old worker. She told us: ‘I have worked here for four years and I have not been able to see my son or husband in Bangladesh during all that time. We work very hard, sometimes 12 hour days, for not much money. I send all my money home and could not afford to fly back and see my family.

  9. Foreign waka 9
    2 November 2014 at 1:53 pm

    There are now twice as many billionaires as a few years ago…headlines. For the ordinary folks that reads as: there are twice as many masters now wanting double as much for the same money.

    • chris73 9.1
      2 November 2014 at 2:07 pm

      Good on them, the amount of billionaires whether they double or triple doesn’t stopy ou, me or anyone from improving their financial situation

      • phillip ure 9.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 2:26 pm

        the aspirational rightwing-trout..

        ..(i wanna be as big a prick as they are..!..)

        ..if you ever saw the act party out and about..the rich kingpins in that had these aspirational-dweebs/wannabes clustered around them like shoals of fish..

        ..and they treated them with the contempt they deserve..

        ..cloying-toadies that they are..

        • chris73 9.1.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 2:31 pm

          ..(i wanna be as big a prick as they are..!..)

          – Nope I do have a plan to accrue a reasonable standard of living in my retirement but its nothing outrageous

          ..if you ever saw the act party out and about..the rich kingpins in that had these aspirational-dweebs/wannabes clustered around them like shoals of fish..

          – probably why they got so few votes

          …eh?…

          • phillip ure 9.1.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 2:50 pm

            hope nothing like global-warming/state-fascism/peoples-uprising doesn’t upset yr plans at all..

            ..and ‘m not wishing this on you..but imagine if something really shitty happened that fucked you up..and left you dependent on state support for yr life/living/food..

            ..would that at all dent yr naieve-optimism about yr future..?

            ..would that temper yr benificiary-bashing/scumbag points-of-view on most things..?

            ..you fool..!

            ..and how’s yr lifestyle..?

            ..lot’s of red-meat/dairy/booze..eh..?

            ..if that hasn’t all caught up with you already..40 yrs old..if not already..soon..eh..?

            ..how will that effect yr ‘plans’..

            ..and a heads-up for you..

            ..one of the first things that impressed me about people who had been longtime-vegans..(aside from that inner-glow of health..)..(this is people in their 70’s..)

            ..was how they all had great hair/skin..and looked/acted/moved decades younger than they were..

            ..and at the age i am at..i look around at my age-contemporaries..

            ..and i see similar comparisons..

            ..that meat/dairy/booze really kicks the shit outta you..eh..?

            ..hair turns to crap…skin shows the effects of decades of those poisons..

            ..and by yr mid-fifties..yr pretty much fucked..eh..?

            ..it’s all over..as you limp into an ailing old age..

            ..(so you’ve got 15 yrs left..best rush that ‘plan’ along..eh..?..)

            ..so..young-peoples..!

            ..the choice is yours..to decide yr future..

            ..you can live a life of rightousness/hurting no animals..

            ..and reap those benefits i’ve indicated..(and so much more..)

            ..or..you can end up looking like all those meat/dairy/booze-consuming wrinkled/fat/fucked-people around you who are now in their mid-fifties..

            ..it’s yr choice/call…

            ..do you really wanna be like them..

            ..and i know i am appealing to yr basest-impulses/instincts..

            ..but..after all..’vanity is all’..

            ..eh..?

            • chris73 9.1.1.1.1.1
              2 November 2014 at 3:23 pm

              hope nothing like global-warming/state-fascism/peoples-uprising doesn’t upset yr plans at all..

              – In NZ? Not likely, not impossible either but not likely

              ..and ‘m not wishing this on you..but imagine if something really shitty happened that fucked you up..and left you dependent on state support for yr life/living/food..

              – I have the sneaking suspicion that you (and a few others on here) would like to see me dependent on the state even though by me not being dependent leaves a little more resources for those that truly need it

              ..would that at all dent yr naieve-optimism about yr future..?

              ..would that temper yr benificiary-bashing/scumbag points-of-view on most things..?

              ..you fool..!

              ..and how’s yr lifestyle..?

              ..lot’s of red-meat/dairy/booze..eh..?

              – Not so much booze these days and more white meat as well (free range of course)

              ..if that hasn’t all caught up with you already..40 yrs old..if not already..soon..eh..?

              – Around my birthday since I hit 40 I’ve gone to the doctor to get checked out (history of cancer so best to be pro-active about these things) and not wanting to brag (but I will) my numbers are all in the middle of where they need to be

              ..how will that effect yr ‘plans’..

              ..and a heads-up for you..

              ..one of the first things that impressed me about people who had been longtime-vegans..(aside from that inner-glow of health..)..(this is people in their 70’s..)

              ..was how they all had great hair/skin..and looked/acted/moved decades younger than they were..

              ..and at the age i am at..i look around at my age-contemporaries..

              ..and i see similar comparisons..

              ..that meat/dairy/booze really kicks the shit outta you..eh..?

              ..hair turns to crap…skin shows the effects of decades of those poisons..

              ..and by yr mid-fifties..yr pretty much fucked..eh..?

              ..it’s all over..as you limp into an ailing old age..

              ..(so you’ve got 15 yrs left..best rush that ‘plan’ along..eh..?..)

              – See you seem to think its a choice either give up bacon or give up your body, I don’t think its a choice I think I can have it all by eating bacon and exercising and thus far its working for me

              ..so..young-peoples..!

              ..the choice is yours..to decide yr future..

              ..you can live a life of rightousness/hurting no animals..

              ..and reap those benefits i’ve indicated..(and so much more..)

              ..or..you can end up looking like all those meat/dairy/booze-consuming wrinkled/fat/fucked-people around you who are now in their mid-fifties..

              ..it’s yr choice/call…

              ..do you really wanna be like them..

              ..and i know i am appealing to yr basest-impulses/instincts..

              ..but..after all..’vanity is all’..

              ..eh..?

              – If its a choice between the sanctimony of being a vegan or eating bacon then bacon wins each and every time

              …eh..?

              • phillip ure …
                2 November 2014 at 3:36 pm

                console yrslf with that..as you look in the mirror..eh..?

                ..and i went nowhere near ‘sanctimony’..(if deciding not to torture/kill/eat other sentient-beings..is a definiton of ‘sanctimony’…

                ..just the facts…just the facts…(wrinkles and all..)

                …and just out of curiousity..(and health/body-wise..@ 40 yrs of age..how wd you rate yrslf..?

                ..on a scale of one to ten..(ten being an adonis..)

              • phillip ure …
                2 November 2014 at 4:03 pm

                and any chance you’ll discover speechmarks anytime soon..?

                (and yes yes..!..i know..!..punctuation corrections from me..handle it..!)

      • Foreign waka 9.1.2
        2 November 2014 at 2:33 pm

        Economics is not your forte, is it.

        • chris73 9.1.2.1
          2 November 2014 at 2:35 pm

          I’m more of a practical type rather than a theoretical type so I’m more interested in building up my own personal circumstances then debating it

          • b waghorn 9.1.2.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 2:56 pm

            You appear to be all over the place debating it today I had picked you as a mass debater

            • chris73 9.1.2.1.1.1
              2 November 2014 at 3:15 pm

              Don’t knock it. Mass debating is debating with someone you love.

              • b waghorn …
                2 November 2014 at 3:24 pm

                Ha ha

                • b waghorn …
                  2 November 2014 at 3:58 pm

                  Chris 73 I’m about your age got a free hold house ,the wife and I both work and have good prospects for the future got a bit tucked away that’s growing weekly so barring bad luck were sweet. I just happen to think there is more then enough on this planet for all if only people could control there greed and I will not stand buy and watch Key ,Collins and the likes of Slater drag this beautiful country in to the gutter. You are lucky enough to live in a free country the choice is your’s

                  • chris73 …
                    2 November 2014 at 4:38 pm

                    I agree the problem is its not a right wing or left wing thing, its a politics as a whole thing

            • halfcrown 9.1.2.1.1.2
              2 November 2014 at 7:38 pm

              b Waghorn@2.56pm
              “You appear to be all over the place debating it today I had picked you as a mass debater”

              Ha, I like that. Like Master Bates

        • phillip ure 9.1.2.2
          2 November 2014 at 2:57 pm

          @ foreign waka..

          “..Economics is not your forte, is it..”

          ..heh..!..

          ..he’s from the more-billionaires-are-good-for-all school of economic thought..

          ..(it’s kinda like trickle-down on steroids..)

  10. fisiani 10
    2 November 2014 at 2:52 pm

    6 weeks since the election.
    Employment reforms passed.
    Labour leaderless.
    Greens next leader James Shaw outshines his entire caucus.
    John Key brushes aside pathetic question attempts.
    Inflation 1%
    Wages up far more than inflation.
    Summer barbecues moaning about loss of tea breaks Nah!
    Labour united by Christmas? No chance.
    Mass protests about the government. Nup.
    This is long term rebuilding project for the Left.
    Same old strategy could see a 4th 5th and 6th term National government.
    There are only two options. 1. Go more Left. 2. Go more Right.
    Incremental change or revolutionary change?
    A 40% + party or a 20% party?
    At least there is still hope. Thank God for Pandora.

    • chris73 10.1
      2 November 2014 at 3:13 pm

      +100 fisiani

    • phillip ure 10.2
      2 November 2014 at 3:15 pm

      @ fis..

      “..6 weeks since the election..”

      ‘Employment reforms passed’…(workers screwed over..)

      ‘Labour leaderless’…(labour having democratic contest for leadership..as opposed to national..?.)

      Greens next leader James Shaw outshines his entire caucus’…(the greens get another wanna-coalesce-with-national rightwing-ratbag..)

      ‘John Key brushes aside pathetic question attempts’…(john key dreading the outcomes of the various inquiries currently underway..)

      ‘Inflation 1%’,..(even more poor..with no relief in sight..)

      ‘Wages up far more than inflation’…(not for many/most..cf..the working-poor..the low-wage economy being the bitter-fruit from that grand-neo-lib-econmic-coalition national and labour have had running for the last 30 yrs..)

      ‘Summer barbecues moaning about loss of tea breaks Nah!’..(poor-people/the disposessed don’t have ‘bbq’s’..eh..?..they cost money….)

      ‘Labour united by Christmas? No chance’…(meh..i see labour and national n a grand-coalition against the rest of us..a pox on both their houses..!..)

      ‘Mass protests about the government. Nup’…(..yep..!..)

      ‘This is long term rebuilding project for the Left’..(after key has gone..the right are fucked..who ya got..?..joyce..?..bridges..?..bennett..?.(should we pause for hysterical-laughter here/now..?)..nah..!..it’s a long time in opposition coming up for you clowns..that’s yr/their ‘longterm-plan’..

      ‘Same old strategy could see a 4th 5th and 6th term National government’…(and we’re all getting ponies..tomorrow..!..)

      ‘There are only two options. 1. Go more Left. 2. Go more Right.
      Incremental change or revolutionary change?
      A 40% + party or a 20% party?’..(i see you predict a 40% labour..if they turn to offer meaningful-help to the million disposessed..i agree..whereas continuing to try to be national-lite..will see them stuck/staying @20%/the teens in the polls..

      ‘At least there is still hope. Thank God for Pandora.’..(poor-people have to listen to the ads on pandora..)

      • fisiani 10.2.1
        2 November 2014 at 7:07 pm

        Just realised you don’t know the story of Pandora.

      • The Al1en 10.2.2
        2 November 2014 at 7:14 pm

        “…(the greens get another wanna-coalesce-with-national rightwing-ratbag..)”

        coalesce – come together to form one mass or whole.

        Back that with fact, if you can.

        Like a slow mo car crash driven by a bloke who thinks he can drive but can’t, it’s all very avoidable.

    • Foreign waka 10.3
      2 November 2014 at 3:53 pm

      It is a typical case of the pendulum swings…. development of something better is never an easy road. Its like pepper and salt to a meal. As the voter and “consumer” my need is for some vigorous debate and equitable outcomes. I become suspicious if the ideas presented have a monotone uni-color appearance. Only China is topping that at the moment.

  11. fisiani 11
    2 November 2014 at 3:38 pm

    Nice attempt at parody. Keep smoking that weed.

  12. fisiani 12
    2 November 2014 at 3:49 pm

    Enjoy the next nine years till Sir John retires.

    • fisiani 13.1
      2 November 2014 at 4:57 pm

      In a parallel universe, David Cunliffe is the prime minister of New Zealand presiding over a Labour-NZ First minority government in a happy arrangement with the Green Party. Internet Mana, backed by German entrepreneur Kim Dotcom, has a few MPs in Parliament, including veteran activist Hone Harawira.

      ACT is already history and former Prime Minister John Key has taken a long holiday in Hawaii.

      Wake up. The Left was soundly defeated in the 2014 election.

      “I think it’s fair to say we haven’t had dreams in colour since September 20,” says Left-wing activist and blogger Martyn Bradbury.

      That was even funnier. Only problem is from the evidence above the delusion runs deep.

    • The Other Mike 13.3
      2 November 2014 at 5:38 pm

      “Nick Clegg had no idea where these T-shirts were being made and can only assume that the Fawcett Society were unaware of the origins, or they would not have asked him to wear it.” – they would be TORIES mate.

      The right make it so easy to laugh at. 250,000 hungry kids, selling of State Assets (i.e. houses), corporate welfare in the shape of WFF as we don’t have anywhere near a living wage. People living in cars, vans, garages etc etc, with bad health outcomes which will cost taxpayers millions in years to come if we don’t invest in the future NOW.

      Sorry if this is all a bit too much for you and your sidekick Fisi to assimilate. Even trolls have to mow their lawns don’t they? Or at least supervise. Later….

    • Murray Rawshark 13.4
      2 November 2014 at 10:07 pm

      Nope. This is what happens when activists contract business firms to make stuff. It’s yet one more example of how business operates to extract the maximum profit.

  14. Cave Johnson 14
    2 November 2014 at 6:17 pm

    Others may already be aware of this but I just worked out that Rawshark’s name is probably taken from the Rorschach comic book character, rather than directly from the Rorschach test.
    http://au.ign.com/top/comic-book-heroes/16
    “Superheroes often live in a world of black and white morality with strict lines between good and evil. Rorschach doesn’t, but he likes to believe he does. In the Watchmen universe, Rorschach alone carried on his crusade when all other heroes had retired or signed up with the government. One has to admire his determination, if not necessarily his methods. In the end, Rorschach was willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to ensure that the truth was heard”

    • lprent 14.1
      2 November 2014 at 6:34 pm

      Many eons ago I got lent the rather thick cartoon book “The Watchman”. That universe was rather weird in a batman sort of a way, and Rorschach was the weirdest of them all. Umm except for the atomic guy.

      But he was also a guy who was permanently down on his luck in real life and a natural born screwup.

      I must go and read that thing again. The movie was a pretty good rendition of the comic.

  15. Paul 15
    2 November 2014 at 6:37 pm

    Our fawning sycophantic media.
    The Herald has ceased to be a member of the 4th estate.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11352050

  16. lprent 16
    2 November 2014 at 7:00 pm

    That was odd. Yesterday while at the meeting at the Manurewa RSA*, I noticed a display bug on the right column of the site. It wasn’t wide enough and disappeared to the bottom on the page.

    It only showed up on one of my laptop and only running chrome under linux. I just fixed it by reducing the right column width down a bit.

    Does anyone else have any quirks like that still on their devices?

    * That RSA is a building that I’d have to describe as being magnificent by the standard of most of them I have been in

    • Cave Johnson 16.1
      2 November 2014 at 7:58 pm

      Yeah. Cr on Win81. Alienware 14 laptop with 1920x 1080 native res. The rh column list of posts wraps into the rh 1/3rd of the column only. I can email a screenshot if you want.

      • lprent 16.1.1
        2 November 2014 at 8:22 pm

        Yes please. lprent [at] primary.geek.nz

        That one sounds outright weird and is probably to do with the bit of javascript that runs some of that tabbed area. But could be with some of the CSS.

  17. swordfish 17
    2 November 2014 at 8:20 pm

    It appears Grant Robertson has come equipped with a highly-enthusiastic little band of cheerleaders. Why am I not surprised ?

    In reply to Robertson – “Grant is absolutely right……” (Ted Stephen Greensmith-West); “Grant has done a fantastic job at engaging…..” (Ted, once again); “This is such a great plan ! The campaign for 2017 should definitely start right now. And, you’re so right …..” (Pieixoto); and various other newbies immediately defending Robertson against any criticism (eg Roztoz).

    Questions to Robertson – “Am so excited by your campaign, your website is excellent and I love that the endorsements you have show such wide support…..Do you think you will be able to keep up a strong campaign approach throughout the term if you win ?” (Kereru); “I’ve been really impressed by what I’ve seen from your campaign so far Grant – clearly you have developed a vision for how Labour needs to change…..” (james w).

    Always the difficult questions first, eh ?

    I wonder if Robertson and these (Vic Young Labour ?) cheerleaders who have presumably hitched their career-wagons to his candidacy realise just how manipulative this sort of contrived set-up seems ? Certainly has me muttering a few expletives.

    • Paul 17.1
      2 November 2014 at 8:23 pm

      Yeah, noticed this as well.

    • The Al1en 17.2
      2 November 2014 at 8:29 pm

      Yes it’s bullshit spin, and obvious at that.

      • Keir 17.2.1
        2 November 2014 at 8:46 pm

        I don’t think it’s bullshit spin. I think it might be – shock, horror – people who want to engage in a positive space discussing a positive future, not continually rehashing old grievances. I also think an outward looking left wing blog should be pleased when new people show up and engage, not start slagging them off!

        • The Al1en 17.2.1.1
          2 November 2014 at 8:52 pm

          Funny, looks like a coordinated effort to influence the q&a to me, but then never being one to believe in random acts of spontaneous coincidence will have that effect.

          • Keir 17.2.1.1.1
            2 November 2014 at 8:57 pm

            Like I say, maybe people are actually just enthusiastic and excited about the prospect of a positive vision for the Labour Party. Adopting this kind of exclusionary, snobbish attitude doesn’t help anyone, and nor does this kind of negative, suspicious attitude – if you aren’t convinced by Grant that’s fine, but play the ball not the man.

            • The Al1en 17.2.1.1.1.1
              2 November 2014 at 8:58 pm

              And when it looks and smells like sh1t, it usually is.

              It will be telling if they’re still here when grant has lost the leadership vote.

              • McFlock …
                2 November 2014 at 9:02 pm

                Lol, but is the shit actually on the end of your nose, and you’re simply looking at good old loam or peanut butter?

              • Barfly …
                2 November 2014 at 9:04 pm

                not a chance in hell lol

              • Keir …
                2 November 2014 at 9:04 pm

                Again, this is such a fucking shit attitude to have. If people show up here because they want to talk to Andrew Little awesome! It’s great if he can pull new people, it’s an important part of growing the party.

                It’s great if the chance to ask Grant Robertson questions gets people who maybe read the Standard but don’t comment to engage – and to be fair, most of the supposed “new people” over there are people I’ve seen commenting here on and off for a long time, just not as regularly as some of us!

            • swordfish 17.2.1.1.1.2
              2 November 2014 at 9:06 pm

              Oh come on Keir. I realise you’re a Robertson supporter and that you were closely involved in James Macbeth Dann’s Ilam campaign (Dann being the bloke who wrote a post-Election open letter attacking Cunliffe and hitching his career-wagon to the Robertson juggernaut), but surely even you can see what an insult this sort of manipulation is to our collective intelligence ? It’s soooo transparent.

              These guys aren’t “engaging” as you put it, but indulging in mindless cheerleading. Probably carefully co-ordinated, mindless cheerleading at that.

              • Keir …
                2 November 2014 at 9:45 pm

                Yeah I’m pretty open about thinking that Grant’s the best candidate. But you know what? I like seeing people get excited about the other candidates, and I’m not going to go slag them off for it. I never knew how cool Nanaia, for one, was until this contest, and I think it’s pretty awesome we get this chance to hear about our strong leaders in the party.

                I want happy excited people in the party. I don’t want attacks on other party members & bitchy infighting.

                • The Al1en …
                  2 November 2014 at 9:52 pm

                  “I want happy excited people in the party. I don’t want attacks on other party members & bitchy infighting.”

                  Now if DC had only said that a year ago and acted on it.

            • weka 17.2.1.1.1.3
              2 November 2014 at 9:06 pm

              “Like I say, maybe people are actually just enthusiastic and excited about the prospect of a positive vision for the Labour Party”

              In which case we would expect to see it across all the candidate Q and As, right?

              • Keir …
                2 November 2014 at 9:11 pm

                Only if those candidates are also inspiring and attractive!

                • weka …
                  2 November 2014 at 9:15 pm

                  ha ha ha, good one Keir.

                  • Keir …
                    2 November 2014 at 9:25 pm

                    You know, if you’re that invested in the Labour leadership race, you can always join the party! Then you can vote as well as making snide remarks about party members who engage in democratic processes.

                    • weka …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:31 pm

                      afaik people who join now can’t vote. Besides, I’m a member of a political party already which means I can’t join another party.

                      I don’t think my laugh was snide so much as I thought your comment was humorous, but also calculated.

              • McFlock …
                2 November 2014 at 9:12 pm

                why?
                Only a couple of examples were mentioned, so maybe they’re just more enthusiastic/excited/grovelling.different_demographic than most other supporters.

                Although frankly some more enthusiastic labour party supporters would be a good thing.

                • The Al1en …
                  2 November 2014 at 9:16 pm

                  “Although frankly some more enthusiastic labour party supporters would be a good thing.”

                  Better, less self absorbed, personal interests first mps will probably help with that.

                  • McFlock …
                    2 November 2014 at 9:19 pm

                    yeah, whatever

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:20 pm

                      It couldn’t hurt to try.

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:24 pm

                      personally I just think you doubled-down with the nutella, but what the hey.

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:27 pm

                      To be fair, I didn’t get what you were on about so I just put it in as a nod to the obvious visual gag and word play on ‘nut’ .

                      And I didn’t realise I was being scored, but you should know I don’t worry about that as I don’t succumb to the pressures of trying please my audience.

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:30 pm

                      if you’re sense of smell is put off by something you carry around on the end of your nose, then how do you know what is shit and what is not?

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:32 pm

                      Ah I see. Then no, it’s not on my nose, it’s deffo the patsies

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:36 pm

                      yeah, whatever

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:39 pm

                      yeah, but that’s from someone who can’t see the shit on the end of their nose.

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 9:44 pm

                      Thought it was established the shit wasn’t on my nose but is in front of my eyes.
                      I see the shit and read the shit. It’s like who you gonna call, Shitbusters?

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 10:23 pm

                      shit-tinted spectacles, then

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 10:28 pm

                      I know you want it bad, so yes, even though I clearly have 20 20 vision and can suss out a bullshitter a mile off, it’s my glasses, the ones I don’t own or need to blame 😆

                      You crack me up. I don’t even know why you’re getting in to one. It can’t be because of the nutella, can it?

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 10:32 pm

                      nah, the nutella was a good line.

                      a shitload more interesting than yet again recycling unverifiable theories about who on the left is secretly a tory shill.

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 10:38 pm

                      Well I’m glad I chose nutella and not mixed fruit jam.

                      Tory shills? In the Robertson camp? Now that’s a story.
                      Unless of course that’s a veiled undermining dig at me, which would be funny, stupid and a little sickening all at the same time.

                    • McFlock …
                      2 November 2014 at 10:52 pm

                      lols at jam.

                      Well, if robertson is incorrectly included in your list of mps who are “self absorbed, personal interests first mps”, then he’s pretty close to being an accused tory.
                      And if the commenters who you believe are part of “a coordinated effort to influence the q&a” are in fact genuinely (if naively) supporting their preferred party leader, then quite frankly you should be feeling sick.

                      But on the other hand, maybe your shit detector is working at 100%, you’re a modern NZ-politics Cassandra, and I’m merely a common disbelieving Trojan.

                      The problem is that either possibility could be true.

                    • The Al1en …
                      2 November 2014 at 11:04 pm

                      Only comments mentioning shilling have been about the pro GR camp, and yes it looks devised and crafted to me and others, but that doesn’t mean grant had anything to do with it, and I have not alluded to that at all though I wouldn’t be surprised.

                      I have pondered whether they were just keen, advocating for their pick, which is fine by me, but gut feeling says no, put up job.
                      Probably not prophetic like Kassandra, though seems we have our doubters, but she was believed once, so never say never.

                      And I’m not sure about being self absorbed and pro self makes you a tory, even though plenty are, mallard, king, buttkins, cosgrove, shearer et all belie that, officially anyway.

                • weka …
                  2 November 2014 at 9:16 pm

                  it could also be that we had a random influx of newbies who just happen to like Robertson but have no connection to him and we didn’t have that random influx with any of the others.

        • Murray Rawshark 17.2.1.2
          2 November 2014 at 10:18 pm

          They don’t engage. They type out their bullshit about how Robertson deserves a Nobel Peace Prize, is the best thing since sliced bread, then when he signs off, they all disappear. It’s as fake as a real estate auction.

  18. Gruntie 18
    2 November 2014 at 9:24 pm

    Is there any truth to the rumour that mshy of the labour MP’s decided they would prefer to loose the election rather than work under a Cunliffe led government ?
    Feels that way in Auckland

    • weka 18.1
      2 November 2014 at 9:44 pm

      I’ve wondered that but how would we know?

      They certainly appear to prefer opposition to working with Mana/IMP.

    • Colonial Rawshark 18.2
      3 November 2014 at 12:08 am

      I think that group of Labour MPs would have liked to have been in Govt, so no, I don’t believe that they set out to lost the election per se. What I reckon happened is they figured out several months ago that a loss was more likely than a win, and then planned/acted accordingly.

  20. Draco T Bastard 20
    2 November 2014 at 10:51 pm

    Greens call for power buyback umpire

    Users of renewable energy – such as solar or wind – use the electricity to power their home or business, and can sell back any excess electricity to their supplier to be used on the national grid.

    Contact Energy announced on Friday it was cutting its buy-back rate for new customers by over half, dropping from 17c to 8c.

    Don’t need an umpire – just a single regulation that says that power companies will buy power from people at the same price that the people pay for it. That way the power companies won’t be bludging off of the consumers.

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