I accept that is what ms genuinely thinks, but I have no idea what he bases it on (possibly in part on the many misrepresentations made here) and in some respects at least i think it is a way off the mark. I doubt that many if any here have much idea where I sit politically. So I will state my political case here.
Last century I tended to vote Labour (never National). Early this century I voted Green, and Labour in 2005 to help help Don Brash out of power.
I approached Labour in 2009 thinking I could contribute to them rebuilding, but didn’t follow through because they (primarily Clare Curran) gave me the impression they wanted workers but not thinkers or contributers.
I have never considered being involved with National or NZ First. I have considered Greens but while I’m in line generally with their environmental ideals am not in favour of their radical social goals – in particular because they are unproven ideals.
I don’t think “the centre provides the best result in a goldilocks sort of way”. I considered myself centre-ish for a while, but my preferences are wider than that, depending on the issue.
I was never a fan of Colin Craig’s Conservative Party, and what I’ve seen of the New Conservative Party leaves me cold, they are not my thing at all.
My political preferences are similar to the more liberal National MPs like Nikki Kay and Chris Bishop and also similar to moderate Labour MPs – certainly not in line with conservative National MPs (including Simon Bridges). I agree in part with others more leftward, like James Shaw, Julie Anne Genter.
I’m sure I have some conservative-ish views, but on social issues I think I am usually not conservative aligned at all.
Homosexual law reform – strongly in favour, the laws up until the 1980s were terrible.
Smacking children – strongly against, except in very mild cases (tap/smack and not whack/smack). I voted against the smacking referendum. I am strongly anti-violence in the home.
Marriage equality – I supported the civil union law reform as adequate, but shifted to supporting full marriage equality after talking with people at a gay group meeting.
Marriage generally – I guess I’m conservative on this to an extent, I value marriage as a way of showing commitment to a partner. However I ‘lived together’ for several years prior to both my marriages – this is commonly accepted practice this century, but was quite a bit more radical first time round in the 1970s and certainly not conservative.
Abortion – I strongly support moves to make our abortion laws line up with our abortion practice, scrapping the ridiculous requirements women have to comply with now, making it women’s choice up until about half term.
Euthanasia – I support euthanasia in principle, and i think i will probably vote for if it goes to a referendum, depending on what we actually get to vote on.
Cannabis law reform – I have strongly support cannabis law reform and have campaigned politically on this. The current drug laws are not working, causing more problems than they solve. I want the legal, medical and social mess cleaned up. I have never used cannabis or any other recreational drug except alcohol.
MMP – I have supported MMP as a better than most of the rest option, albeit flawed. I oppose FPP. I strongly support lowering the MMP threshold, preferably to 2-3% if not scrapped entirely. The priority should be put on making as many votes count as possible. The 5% threshold is a large party imposition to protect their positions by excluding small parties, I think this is appalling and undemocratic.
Tax and benefit reform – I support a major rethink of our tax and benefit system. I’m disappointed by the timidity shown by the current Government with their hobbled tax working group – with the economy currently strong it would be a good time to change things more radically. I’m interested in some sort of universal basic income. I have some reservations, but in a total reform package it should be considered in the mix.
That’s just a few issues, but ones where I think I am far from conservative.
I’m interested to hear why Greg thinks that I was or am ‘tribal conservative’. I really doubt he has any real idea, my views have often been misrepresented here at The Standard – since I started commenting here about ten years ago thinking it might be the political blog most in line with my thinking – i still laugh about that.
I am interested to here a response from ms on where his perception comes from.
The leftist splitter syndrome is interesting, eh? Better to develop common ground, even though it is human nature to differ. I mentally file you with MS as typical Labour folk: I agree with their common-sense views, and disagree when they fail to grasp subtleties (just as often).
Thus I agree with most of your list of positions. Been Green half a century, so from the radical sixties wave I’ve trended towards pragmatism and away from idealism, and consequently am an untypical GP member. I still think marriage is more likely to damage people than help them, though. Neither I, nor the two women I married, ever believed in it. We did so to reduce the trauma of other family members.
I ended up with the same position as Key on the anti-smacking law. Worth a try as a social-engineering experiment. A joke, which history has validated, to my surprise. I recall smacking my daughter a couple of times during the toddler period, when she lost the plot. It worked. You can’t let kids do dangerous stuff just because they want to. Boundaries must be enforced. But yes, I give Sue Bradford credit for that law.
It was me who put cannabis law reform into the Greens justice policy draft when I became convenor of that working group in ’91. I also “strongly support lowering the MMP threshold, preferably to 2-3% if not scrapped entirely.” I also agree with you re more radical reform of taxes & benefits. Not just UBI either. Financial transactions taxation is essential to disincentivise capitalism.
As regards goldilocks centrism, obviously it is the crucial factor which is making the coalition successful. Dunno why you seek to avoid the tag, and I don’t share your assumption that MS uses it as a perjorative. If he is, he may be in denial of the fact. Reference to the govt as Labour-led could serve as evidence of that. Pretence doesn’t really work very well in politics. If they were ever to start leading the coalition, we could then rate them on the quality of their leadership. This year??
There is a card in the supermarkets with a row of kids dressed in hero suits with one slightly different and caption saying something like ‘you are a special individual just like everybody else’.
You support privatisation of education via charters, the competitive model of Tomorrow’s School’s, the Americanization of healthcare, the privatisation of utilities and infrastructure and the liberalization of labour laws and reduction of trade unions roles.
Pretty right wing to me. Supporting the right of two blokes to marry each other is pretty irrelevant IMO.
I have no idea why as it is incredibly obvious given govts changing, but there are an awful lot of voters that agree with somethings from some parties and some from others and when the election comes round, they vote for which has the most at the time.
You may have heard of the name
Swing voters
And sometimes a party someone has always voted for can change so much that this happens reluctantly
Millsy – you’re are making stuff up there, applying incorrect policy positions to me that I disagree with.
Of course I do support some policies that could be labelled ‘right wing’, as everyone probably does if they are honest. But as you have asserted here you are wrong.
Those are not black or white policies. I support unions for those who want to belong to them, and I believe they have had a major positive impact on work conditions over the last century, but I also think belonging to one shouldn’t be compulsory. Voluntary union membership does not appear to have been much of a problem.
“the Americanization of healthcare” – apart from that being vague I think it is a ridiculous assertion. I think that the US health system is awful for many people – one of my brothers died recently in the US, and it appears that is because he couldn’t afford adequate health care.
“the competitive model of Tomorrow’s School’s” – I have no idea where you get this from.
“privatisation of education via charters” – small scale privatisation of someeducation seems fine to me, when it meets needs not being catered for well by state education. But I don’t support ‘the privatisation of education’, as a blanket claim that’s nonsense.
“the privatisation of utilities and infrastructure” – this is far too complex to deal with briefly here.
“I started commenting here about ten years ago thinking it might be the political blog most in line with my thinking – i still laugh about that.”
So, Pete, if this is not the political blog most in line with your thinking”, why have you bothered to, a: visit & b. outline all of your positions?
If the unsuitability this blog to you and your unsuitability to it, makes you laugh, why do you return, again and again?
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a congresswoman in the House of Representatives, representing a New York City district. One of 435 representatives in the House.
I personally think the Republicans are stupid to play up everything she she says and does. She must be very happy to get such attention, since it has given her a huge national profile. Just the sort of thing you need if you want to become a Senator, either in New York or a neighbouring state..
Wayne 2.1
5 January 2019 at 7:43 am
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a congresswoman in the House of Representatives, representing a New York City district. One of 435 representatives in the House.
I personally think the Republicans are stupid to play up everything she she says and does……
What you are not understanding here Wayne, is the qualitative nature of leadership.
Cortez maybe a only one of 435, but her presence among them and the message she brings, is a direct challenge to business as usual, and one which can’t be openly derided, or ignored.
Which is why the GOP has had to resort to attacking Cortez using underhand methods.
I always think of the example of Winston Churchill.
After breaking with the Liberal Party, Churchill was elected back into parlirament as an independent ‘Constitutionalist’.
From a minority position on the back benches, Churchill led a blistering non-stop attack on the dangers of fascism, at a time when the British establishment were almost all, pro-nazi.
When the crisis hit, the leaders of the establishment parties were found lacking, and without answers, leading to Churchill’s surprise elevation to the Premiership.
This is called leadership, and it is often not a quantitative factor. Many times it springs from a minority position. Rod Donald’s campaign for MMP is another example; From a minority position, Rod Donald changed the whole political landscape of this country.
This is what I mean, when I say, that leadership is a qualitative factor and not a quantitative one. It doesn’t matter how many seats you have in the house, it doesn’t matter if you are a voice of only one. If you are sure of your message and your message has resonance in society you are a force to be reckoned with.
This is what you can’t see Wayne.
And is why the Republicans can’t ignore Cortez, as you suggest they should.
I get that she is different to many/most congress members. And I am sure she will shine. Though as a self declared socialist that will limit her nationwide support in a country like America. But I am also sure she will modify her positions, just as Jacinda has done in the ten years she has been in Parliament.
I still think it is foolish for the Republicans to be obsessed with her.
Yes, I would be.
After all, NZ is allegedly more partial to socialism than many countries, but I don’t see the current government implementing much of it. The PM used a lot of socialist rhetoric in her early years in Parliament, but in her role as PM I don’t see any real evidence that she is about to implement the socialist nirvana.
It seems you are not as intelligent as you think you are, despite your cultured credentials.
The USA has extensive public ownership and control of infrastructure, and a state sector more comprehensive than ours would ever hope to be. All the airports, seaports, ferrys and terminals, as well as most electricity and water reticulation in NY City for example, are owned and controlled by public entities. With a public service mandate (IE not commercial SOE’s). As well as that, you have mutuals, co-ops, and union run pension funds with various levels of involvement in the economy.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is essentially a New Deal Democrat, not so long ago, her political positions would have been pretty centrist. The universal health Care system that she proposes would still use privately run health services, but have a government service pay for it. ACT would probably endorse it here.
A good response. Residual socialist infrastructure is usually not recognised as such, and that’s a social deficit. Gnosis around mutual-benefit-generating social design would spread if folks orientated themselves more towards the social transmission of wisdom. On the basis of stuff that works, I mean. Using examples. Teachable moments.
Probably can’t think of a good response. Partisans find it hard to transcend ideological bias. Sometimes it just means commentators forgot to check for a response, or got too busy with other things – often the case for me. 😎
The way you write of her, you make her sound like a shallow narcissist a la Donald Trump.
In fact, she’s highly intelligent and formidably well read, and her public statements are notable for their solid commonsense and compassion. Not qualities that are respected in the National Party, of course,
I presume you are talking about the PM. Quite the contrary to what you suggest.
The PM has worked out (like any senior politicians attaining high office in Labour) that in societies like ours you practically can go no further left than being a social democrat.
To go further left requires powers of the state not readily implementable in a democratic state that respects individual rights. Hardly the mark of compassion or commonsense.
The US Army Corps of Engineers own and operate 30% of the hydro dams in that country. The Americans seem to be comfortable with that ‘social democracy’s.
All of the hating on her just helps her make her case. Since most of her proposals are actually quite popular, hopefully it will help clarify who actually wants to work to improve the lives of the vast majority of Americans, and who is blowing smoke and bullshit while trying to funnel ever more towards those who are already the wealthiest and most powerful.
A savvy person might track the plume of soil in the ocean and fish any sea mounts either side of it for the next few years then through the center after that.
Genetic modification to dramatically improve photosynthetic efficiency. It could help us deal with the challenges of a world on its way to 10 billion humans. If only the rabids can get over their blind kneejerk opposition to genetic modification *because Monsanto*.
That’s already happening. AgResearch has developed a “high metabolisable energy” ryegrass that allegedly doesn’t need as much fertiliser and other inputs, and because of it’s makeup, allegedly animals that eat it produce less emissions.
I am classifying all blanket opponents to genetic modification that are unwilling to consider things on a case-by-case basis as rabids.
So if you’re opposed to AgResearch’s HME ryegrass being used in New Zealand simply because it’s genetically modified, yes I would consider you a rabid.
Andre – do you believe everybody who expresses concern about GMOs is a “blanket opponent to genetic modification” and if so, why do you assume such a thing?
Your position on this issue seems intemperate.
You say, “if” I etc. you would call me rabid. Are you aware of how unsound the “if” argument is?
Then go ahead, put up a more nuanced argument against AgResearch’s HME ryegrass. Or an argument against modifying crop plants to have more efficient photosynthesis.
In both cases, the benefits are clear and real. Reduced impact on the global environment by being able to produce more food from less land and less input of other resources.
The counterargument needs to be much stronger than vague hypotheticals. Vague hypotheticals includes claims that markets on the other side of the world might be willing to pay a bit more on the basis of their consumers’ vague hypotheticals.
I continue to be gobsmacked at the opposition to precise genetic modification techniques, while organisms produced by older scattergun mutation breeding techniques seem to get accepted without question. Particularly since there have been cases of actual harm from organisms produced by the older techniques, such as the swedes that poisoned those southland cattle a few years back.
Well, you didn’t answer my question, Andre, which is irritating.
I’m not arguing those points you make; that more efficient photosynthesis can be drawn from a plant through altering its genetics, though I’m curious as to why nature, in all the time She’s had to refine the process, hasn’t settled on the best formula yet; just waiting for us clever-clogs humans to up Her game, I guess. The details of the science are easy for the scientists and their supporters to argue (genetic modification can result in some plants have more efficient photosynthesis, sure) but those same people seem to have tunnel vision and not be taking into account factors outside of the rude science. I suspect there’s little point in you and I arguing the toss any further, for that reason. Also, I have an event to prepare for and have to get busy preparing the venue, so must absent myself for a few hours. I’m still annoyed at your labelling me “rabid” though 🙂
Oh, and the Southland farmers, or at least an number of them, deny that the HT swedes poisoned their cows – it was the weather that done it, they claim.
Ideology vs pragmatism. My bias is to share Green fundamentalist aversion to unregulated genetic engineering, to the extent that I believe GE foods ought to be tested on an experimental batch of humans before being allowed into the market.
Ideological proponents of GE make themselves the ideal batch! Once these people practice what they preach, and consume GE foods for enough years whilst being scientifically-monitored to detect any negative health consequences, we would have results sufficient for public health policy. I’d go for a seven-period for the evaluation trial. If no common health problems emerge, I’d allow that GE food to be sold with a label specifying that it is GE food attached so the consumer can make an informed choice.
That comes down to the issue of considering the characteristics of the modified organism, whether any of the characteristics of the organism cause concern (whether those characteristics are modified or unmodified). If there are characteristics that cause concerns, then how those characteristics have come about then becomes a matter for consideration because the technique used affects the risk of those characteristics spreading.
As far as testing GMO products on human subjects goes, hundreds of millions of North Americans have happily participated in that trial over the last several decades. I’m not aware of any negatives coming out of it. Unless anyone wants to try claiming the obesity epidemic is fundamentally causing by GMO crops, rather than people snarfing down way too much refined carbohydrates.
As far as labelling foods that include ingredients from GMOs goes, meh. It’s a very small added imposition on manufacturers. If that small concession to the evidence-free beliefs of a small minority of irrationals helps allow broader use of something that really can help make a difference, then I’m OK with going along with it. BTW, afaik GMO labelling is already in place in some jurisdictions.
“Sides”, PM?
I believe the debate involves a far more nuanced following that “two sides”.
There seems to be a great deal of simplification/polarizing going on here in this thread.
The issue itself is more nuanced than that, sure. However, on these discussion threads, there are definitely two sides: those who endorse GM as an additional technique for plant breeding, and those don’t.
How about heritage then, PM?
Traditional varieties sullied, in the eyes of the keepers of the gods-given taonga plants, by new man-made genetic material. Many of those peoples believe they are the plant, the plant is them. The health of those individuals, “actual” and spiritual, can be severely harmed by the loss of their taonga. The scientific view is not the be all and end all. A down stream effect of the “better” varieties offered by the GMO marketers is the rapid loss of these heritage varieties due to the pressures of both the market and the purveyors of the seeds. It may be that you believe that science trumps all, but I don’t and neither do many of the growers of traditional crops, I have to imagine.
Those heritage varieties are mostly threatened by the places they are grown getting taken over by new varieties, whether those new varieties are produced by the oldskool long slow imprecise process of selectively breeding from random mutations and crossbreeding and hybridization, or the slightly faster but wildly imprecise and high risk of unintended consequences process of mutation breeding, or the latest very precise and very low risk of unintended consequences process of genetic modification.
Protecting those heritage organisms is a valuable thing to do. But the threat is loss of the space where they are grown, rather than the technique used to create the organisms replacing them. The appropriate response is protecting the places they are grown, and the peoples growing them. Getting hung up about what techniques may or may not get used to create the organisms that displace the heritage does nothing to protect that heritage.
The GMO seed companies actively destroyed those saved, heritage seed varieties in a number of important locations where such practices as saving seed from the previous harvest existed and levered their “must buy from us every year” GMO seeds into the space they created with their propaganda. They bought up the stocks from individual farmers, ending those lines forever and rendering the farmers entirely dependant upon the company, their seeds and their chemicals. The suicide rate amongst Indian farmers following this programme is appalling.
Robert, those shitty large corporates would be doing those exact same malicious things whether they were trying to impose their way using non-GMO products or if they are pushing their GMO stuff.
It’s corporate behaviour and the expanding powers and rights we seem to be willing to continue granting them that’s the problem. Not the tools they use to create a few of their products.
Banning everything created by those tools does precisely nothing to curb that shitty corporate behaviour. But it really restricts the capabilities of organisations such as our government research labs that are genuinely trying to do beneficial things.
Andre – what do you think growing GM plants (pasture grasses in particular, the focus here now) in NZ might achieve that couldn’t be done by changing the management of such crops?
Robert, if the HME grasses get anywhere close to what’s claimed for them, and that’s something that can really only be answered by field trials in NZ, then for most given levels of environmental impact (fertiliser and other input use, stocking levels, externalities such as emissions and water pollution) use of HME grasses should result in increased production and farm profitability. I support the idea of farmers making profits,
I would hope that if HME grasses become available and have a positive effect, then farmers would choose to take advantage of the improved productivity to reduce their impact and other resource use. As well as adopting other changes that reduce their environmental impact. But sadly I suspect that without regulation and taxes, most farmers would choose to grab the benefit of the HME grass to just increase production with the same disregard for externalities they have now.
“most farmers would choose to grab the benefit of the HME grass to just increase production with the same disregard for externalities they have now.”
Well, that’s the thing, Andre. A bit like Golden rice really, the unintended consequences that science doesn’t recognise and that’s where my argument comes from. You still seem reluctant to talk about the readily available changes that could be made to the culture of farming, the management of land that could solve the problems (and others) that GMO promises to solve. That is, there are significant changes that can be made, and have to be made in the face of climatic changes and other factors, that are being sidelined because GMO, GMO!! It’s a delaying, BAU tactic that will not help our situation, imo, largely because it’s a sop and makes us believe that we can do much as we have always done. I don’t believe that.
Here’s the thing, Robert. Nobody is trying to oppose those who wish to use the farming techniques you’re trying to promote. I even agree that widespread adoption of at least some of those techniques will help improve the situation for the future, even though there’s likely to be some small drop in total production from a given area of land compared to current intensive techniques.
On the other hand, with your blanket opposition to GMOs, you are trying to prevent the use of a powerful that could be a big help in improving things. Opposition based on nothing but hypothetical irrational beliefs here and among consumers in faraway markets that a few growers here believe they can extract increased profits from.
Hubris, prevents you from understanding the fallacy of your comments…
Nature, is already perfect, Andre…human beings can only work in aligmment with that perfection, or work against natures perfection…
You don’t understand the ‘science’…you don’t understand the basic issues with way you push your irrational beliefs on this subject…you’ve done it a number of times…
“Not since the atomic bomb has a technology so alarmed its inventors that they warned the world about its use. That is, until 2015, when biologist Jennifer Doudna called for a worldwide moratorium on the use of the gene-editing tool CRISPR – a revolutionary new technology that she helped create – to make heritable changes in human embryos. The cheapest, simplest, most effective way of manipulating DNA ever known, CRISPR may well give us the cure to HIV, genetic diseases, and some cancers. Yet even the tiniest changes to DNA could have myriad, unforeseeable consequences – to say nothing of the ethical and societal repercussions of intentionally mutating embryos to create “better” humans. Writing with fellow researcher Sam Sternberg, Doudna shares the thrilling story of her discovery and describes the enormous responsibility that comes with the power to rewrite the code of life.”
If humankind collectively exhibited the capacity for self-control in this pressure cooker of our own making, then I’d be all for the use of genetic technology as a stop-gap measure to give ourselves and the planet breathing space to recover from our excesses. But isn’t it much more likely to be used to continue with business as usual?
From a purely selfish point of view, I’m keen on BAU – on using technology to keep the whole impressive edifice tottering along for another generation or two. Would just like a bit more reassurance that ‘we’ll’ use that time wisely.
“If humankind collectively exhibited the capacity for self-control in this pressure cooker of our own making, then I’d be all for the use of genetic technology as a stop-gap measure to give ourselves and the planet breathing space to recover from our excesses. But isn’t it much more likely to be used to continue with business as usual?”
I think that’s well-expressed, Drowsy and probably why I’m anxious about these developments, despite Psycho Milt’s relentless logic. His argument is pretty faultless, but there’s this nagging feeling that … well, you’ve expressed it better than I can.
Happy New Year Robert – frankly I’m at a loss. Our best chance is for more people (such as yourself) to lead by example, demonstrating various alternatives to BAUNZ.
Many more examples are needed. BAU is a siren luring us onto the rocks – it enables some to ‘get ahead’, or at least keep their heads above water as we all gradually go down the gurgler.
A Roundup by any other name still doesn’t act sweetly.
Nevertheless, its use in UK farming has increased by an astonishing 400 per cent in the past 20 years, government figures show.
One-third of Britain’s crop-growing land is now treated with glyphosate (Monsanto’s patent for Roundup has expired, but while there are now more than 20 suppliers of glyphosate in Europe, Roundup remains the market leader, earning it some £1.5 billion a year worldwide).
Now its use is effectively being challenged in a landmark legal case in America.
In San Francisco, DeWayne Johnson, 46, a father of three and former school groundsman, is taking Monsanto to court.
Also, the Daily Mail, along with its celebrity crap, does seem to have good articles that give a lot of info plus excellent images (without video). What do TSs think about its reporting quality (disregarding its body and breast and pregnancy fetishes)?
Roundup resistance is a good example of the kind of genetic modification I oppose, on balance.
I’m not thrilled about how the genetic modification was done, it apparently used a technique that has a high risk of spreading the modification to other organism, with definite downsides from those traits actually spreading. As I understand it, the glyphosate resistance was achieved by inserting small free-floating segments of DNA into the cells. It’s easy for organisms to exchange those small free-floating DNA segments with other organisms, it’s one way antibiotic resistance spreads. So it’s reasonable to suggest that glyphosate resistance would spread to other undesireable plants via DNA exchange as well as oldskool evolutionary selective pressure. I vaguely recall seeing stuff claiming that had actually happened. But newer techniques, CRISPR in particular, directly modify a much more stable part of the genome with much lower risk of transferring that genetic info to other organisms.
I’m quite anti the motivation for that particular modification. It was done by a large corporate for the purpose of locking farmers into buying the corporate’s seeds and chemical products. That kind of corporate manipulation and domination really turns my stomach.
On the flipside, using the glyphosate resistance apparently did result in overall reduced input and better profits for the farmers using it. But not enough to come close to balancing my distaste for the two points above.
But in the instances of the HME ryegrass or golden rice or the improved photosynthesis efficiency, none of those negative points apply that I’m aware (I don’t know details of how the genetic modifications were achieved). They’re are done by government funded research labs with no profit motive and the intent to make it available to all interested users, rather than an effort to lock users into a corporate’s products. I’m also struggling to come up with a downside of those genetic traits spreading to other organisms. They generally make a plant more edible, so it’s hard to imagine those traits thriving in the wild.
Golden rice, Andre? Really???
You’re making yourself a very easy target there – you must have read the arguments destroying the credibility of the Golden rice claims!!
The valid arguments against golden rice are whether it actually achieves what it tries and claims to do. That golden rice apparently falls short of the goals set for it is an argument that every new product should be carefully scrutinised against the claims made for it by its creators. That’s true for every new product that’s ever been created in the history of mankind, even the ones that aren’t being sold for profit.
That golden rice apparently doesn’t meet its stated goals isn’t an argument against genetic modification in general. Like all other other tools, techniques and processes, sometimes genetic modification gives good results, other times not so much.
Getting negative about the organisations behind golden rice because they are using some of the same tools as malicious corporates such as Monsanto is just weird. IRRI aren’t trying to lock farmers into something that makes them a huge profit, they’ve explicitly rejected trying to profit from it. They’re genuinely trying to create something that improves nutritional outcomes for huge numbers of people currently suffering from nutritional deficiencies.
I’d personally like to see more efforts along similar lines, and if better results can be achieved through techniques other than genetic modification, more power and support to those other efforts. But really all I see in that area is blind opposition to golden rice and IRRI’s efforts, *because Monsanto*.
edit: Yes, I specifically chose to mention golden rice rice because I figured that would help rark things up again.
“That golden rice apparently doesn’t meet its stated goals isn’t an argument against genetic modification in general.”
I wasn’t using it for tha. It is however a very good argument against Golden rice, which was my point.
“They’re genuinely trying to create something that improves nutritional outcomes for huge numbers of people currently suffering from nutritional deficiencies.”
They may be genuine, but they could well be barking up the wrong tree. Again, I’ll ask: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05-01-19/#comment-1568181
On balance! I quote a philosopher about the workings and thinking of the minds of men and women that applies to the thoughts put for and against, genetic modification and its glittering, rainbow, illusory benefits.
and
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”
–Bruce Lee
(I hope that applies to those trying to be wise on TS. There is plenty of opportunity for practice.)
and
Everything happens for a reason, and sometimes the reason is you’re stupid and made a bad decision. … Bertrand Russell, “The Triumph of Stupidity” (1933-05-10)
wikiquote
I know let’s get rid of grandma’s bad traits by letting the ‘doctor’ change her genetic makeup. Then lets fast forward 5 generations and see how it all turned out. Who’s keen? Completely fucked up.
Too much rain gives animals the shits the protein in the food is lacking. Now we face elevated CO2 and that causes a similar problem. But science is gonna save us with plants that photosynthesise better because look we’re amazing there won’t be any roll on effect…
If they’re so clever how about they make a rubisco like catalyst and capture the carbon without plants. They can make statues and awards out of it to give to themselves.
The planet desperately needs biodiversity. How will these clonal organisms fare in the face of change?
Typical corporate fare dressed up as saving the world. And don’t y’all love the idea of more (American) patents on plants.
Our diet’s are already reduced to species poor, bland monoclonal fare… Leave the food alone.
Biotech – ‘we’re better than nature’ – no, you myopic children, you’re not.
Kick the chemists out of agriculture, meddling fucking morons.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but golden kiwifruit were evolved via GE from the green kind? If so, where’s the viability of a blanket rule? Plant hybrids have more than a century of development without attracting ideological opposition. Is there a line between GE and hybridisation? If yes, how is it specified? And why did it not emerge into the media during the controversy about twenty years ago?
On some fronts not a lot has changed. Consumer perceptions continue to shape market considerations. I still remember Zespri politely informing the Royal Commission that any field trials on GM products could ruin the emerging trade in the then relatively new gold kiwifruit. Zespri’s view was the public could easily come to believe that what is a different species might be a genetically modified green kiwifruit.
I don’t believe that’s the case, Dennis. I have a plant growing here called a Manchurian Gooseberry which I believe is the original form of the golden kiwifruit. That is, another in the Actinidia family and found naturally (in Manchuria, I guess 🙂
Oh, okay. Does it produce a fruit that looks like those on the market? If there’s a visual difference, that could be due to genetic modification. Then the question is: what caused the difference? Selective breeding or GE? That Stuff article Solkta linked to has this:
“Fifty years of molecular biology has produced results requiring a deep rethinking of basic evolutionary concepts. Instead of proving the hard genetic wiring of living things by an all-determining genome, molecular biologists now understand much more about how microbes and organisms regulate the expression, reproduction, transmission, and restructuring of their DNA molecules.”
“Since the Royal Commission on GM, molecular biologists have established that natural genetic modification (NGM) plays a substantial role in evolution. These processes are significantly different from what GM-Free NZ opposes and Dr Rolleston proposes.”
“NGM does not proceed by selection of random mutations in DNA. Things thought to be impossible less than 20 years ago, such as gene transfer between different species, are now known to be the norm in microbes, and to play a key role in evolution. NGM most commonly occurs by the rearrangement of existing DNA sequences, and in a surprising large number of cases the rearrangement of whole genomes.”
Seems to be along the line of Bruce Lipton’s specialty (epigenetics). Evolution proceeds via interaction with environment. Holist rather than reductionist thinking is the paradigm shift bringing this about.
Yes, the science and practice has “come a long way” but many of the social/cultural/spiritual aspects have not changed and are still important to those affected. Science doesn’t account for that. People can though. That’s where the argument, and especially that of Dr. Rolleston, with whom I’ve argued publicly, seems both myopic and dangerous to me.
Dennis Frank
Nobody wants to consider slow guided evolution as a possibility is why it didn’t emerge in the media. And after we have had such frequent discussions about the downsides and twistedness that the media minds can be subject to, why would you think that they would ‘about 20 years ago’ be any better than now. They have always been open to hyperbole and wilful blindedness and other problems peculiar to themselves.
And the greens and informed and thoughtful have been so concerned about letting in GM that they have tried to resist any body getting a shoe-in in the door. Because there are so many money-focussed people who love tinkering with everything, and love science because it gives them so many tinkering opportunities that they would embrace GM and we would be stuck with it, and paying out for the disasters for ever. Which would be covered in sticky lies, and the public covered in confusion about them, and there would be ongoing rich pickings for the unscrupulous subversives.
“only the rabids can get over their blind kneejerk opposition to genetic modification”
What about the thoughtfuls who oppose genetic modification for well-founded reasons?
After thirty years of GM foods, there is no evidence of health harm. So what are the “well founded reasons”?
Probably just about all the soy consumed in New Zealand is GM modified.
I can understand the precautionary approach as it was applied in New Zealand twenty years ago. That was why National never made a fuss about the GM ban back then. But in the twenty years since we actually know that all the doom laden scenarios spoken about twenty years ago haven’t actually materialised. It is why Sir Peter Gluckman said in 2017 that New Zealand needs to take a fresh look at the issue.
I didn’t claim “health harm”. Just one “reason” for rejecting proposals to grow genetically modified crops in New Zealand could be the loss of market opportunity for non-GM exports. If there’s a substantial and growing market for “clean” food world-wide, we will throw away the chance to benefit from that. New Zealand could market itself successfully, Imo, as producers of “food grown the way nature grows it” or some such label. That’s just one reason. It’s easy for pro-GM commenters to argue against “unsophisticated” claims made by early anti-GE opposers, but the real, reasonable, responsible debate is not being had. Yet.
So a small part of the farming community have fantasies they might get more money from their market of a few irrationals way way away on the other side of the world because they can claim “genetic modification free”.
So on the basis of this, they expect to impose their irrationality on everyone else to deny them the benefits of reduced climate changing emissions, reduced input resource use (including land)? And then claim they are holding some kind of responsible position?
After 30 years of the techniques being in use, surely if there’s any kind of actual risk, opponents could point to it. Instead of just invoking vague hypotheticals.
That which logically follows. Feel free to think “outside your own box,” but don’t expect anyone to treat the resulting thoughts as rational unless they are.
I got an amazing lot out of Christopher McDougalls book Natural Born Heroes. In it was reference to the Cretan diet. And the ‘weeds they eat. And their health.
Very interesting, thanks for that! Notable that “average olive oil consumption in Spain is 12 liters/person, Italy 11 liters/person and the US runs about 0.5 liter/person annually. In Crete, it’s 25 liters per person per year.”
However I recall Graeme Sait telling an audience here about ten years ago that the only cooking oil on the market that was still free of genetic modification is coconut oil. So Cretan health cannot be replicated here if they still use traditional olive trees as their source of the oil. https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/author/graeme-sait/
The hybridized, green revolution grains, upon which most of our modern bread is based, attracted a Nobel prize for Norman Bourlag. It can be easily argued that his slap on the back should probably have been a kick in the rear. He did not use traditional hybridization techniques to create this more squat variety, which was much less prone to lodging. Instead, he irradiated the original wheat varieties and selected a mutant that became our main food. The mutant solved the problem related to the yield loss linked to the difficulties in harvesting wheat that had fallen over in the wind (lodged). However, the compromise was a massive loss in nutrient density. In fact, the wheat varieties we largely consume today take up 50% less iron, 30% less calcium and magnesium and 20% less trace minerals than the original, open pollinated varieties.There is one mineral that this compromised cereal can no longer uptake at all. This is the rarely-considered trace mineral, cobalt. You might assume that this loss of cobalt in our diet is insignificant in the big picture. However, you would be wrong! Cobalt is the building block for an incredibly important nutrient called vitamin B12. A key reason that many of us are now lacking this energy vitamin relates to the loss of cobalt in our most popular food.
Why?
This reply I did to Robert Guyton yesterday explains why briefly.
As I said there, I can write a thesis on B12 deficiency although my PA is presumed to be familial/gene related. I am involved in worldwide related (reputable) medical research/support blogs etc. and the subject of the hybridization of wheat in particular is of interest.
For example, many people who are intolerant of gluten (as opposed to totally allergic such as Celiacs) can tolerate wheat from Italy for example, where hybridization has not happened to nearly the same extent as in the big wheat producing countries such as Australia, Canada, US etc. So some people find that they can tolerate Italian duram wheat flour and pasta imported from Italy whereas they have trouble with Australian/NZ wheat and NZ/Australian made pasta.
You’re welcome. 😊 Glad to be helpful (along with flippancy & critique)! I hope we get our cobalt in trace amounts from other sources.
I’ve been making my own bread (breadmaker) most of this millennium, using wholemeal wheat as base, but with various additives. Currently the latter are: sorgum/besan/tapioca/buckwheat/quinoa/amaranth flours (around half a heaped tbspn of each) plus chia seeds and LSA.
Most people get their cobalt from foods containing Vitamin B12 as cobalt is an element of B12 which is cobalamin. Vegans and to a lesser extent, vegetarians, must be careful to supplement their diet with B12 as the only foods containing B12 are meat, chicken, fish, dairy and eggs. OTH people like me who are unable to absorb B12 because of autoimmune metaplastic gastric atrophy etc must inject to bypass the gastric system.
Before being diagnosed I was highly dairy intolerant and gluten intolerant, hence my knowledge re the difference in Italian wheat etc. B12 injections plus raw apple cider vinegar daily (low stomach acid goes hand in hand with Pernicious Anaema) means I can now tolerate both dairy and gluten much better, but still keep it low gluten. I sometimes also still make my own (breadmaker and by hand) bread using glutenfree flours – worth making your own bread for the smell alone!
Interested to see you listed sorghum first. I have trouble getting sorghum flour here in Wellington. The gluten free Weetbix is sorghum, and love it compared to the wheat one. I read recently that a portion of wheat growers in Australia are changing over to sorghum for the higher returns and lower water needs.
Thanks for the links. Being in south Wellington I tend to forget about BinInn and Davis shops in Petone. Yet I really love Petone and its unique character. I can see a trip around the harbour happening in the near future.
In brief I was finally diagnosed a couple of years ago with Addison-Biermer Syndrome aka Pernicious Anemia – B12 deficiency due to autoimmune metaplastic gastric atrophy. I now have to inject B12 frequently eg now weekly to stay alive but years of not getting a proper diagnosis meant that a lot of damage is now irreversible. But the biggest positive of B12 supplementation has been to my memory and mental capabilities. Highly recommend it for that alone. There are some B12 advocates who reckon that checking B12 levels and supplementation in the over-60s (very cheap) would save massive $$$$$s in keeping the elderly in their homes and functioning mentally etc rather than many ending up in rest homes and dementia wards needlessly.
Not if you live in the King Country Dennis. Cobalt has been added at 0.1 parts per million to fertiliser. Prior to that sheep died of sleeping sickness caused by this lack leading to no uptake of vit B12.
For cattle it is 0.06 cheers. Several volcanic areas are deficient in this mineral.
The interesting thing I, and others, have found re human B12 deficiency is that veterinarians and pharmacists – and midwifes – have a much greater knowledge of B12 and related problems than GPs AND specialist doctors.
Many of the latter are virtually ignorant and misinformed and people find it really difficult finding a doctor who has any knowledge, and tests and treats B12 deficiency correctly.
Within the Green Party, the primary reason given for opposing GM is that organic certification requires organic produce to be GM-free and that can’t be guaranteed if we have GM crops growing as well (due to wind-borne cross-pollination).
So, the reason effectively is that the Green Party believes the organic food industry’s unreasonable restrictions against GM must take precedence over the rest of the country’s agricultural sector. As a reason, that’s anything but “well-founded.”
The argument that GM crops threaten the integrity of organic, non-GM crops is entirely correct, PM and therefore entirely well-founded. Your extrapolation, that there are flow-on effects on the “rest of the country’s agricultural sector” may be true, but doesn’t change the validity of the organic industry’s claim.
GM crops do not threaten the “integrity” of organic crops, they make it difficult for organic crops to meet an unreasonable requirement of organic certification. So, the argument is that we must ban GM crops in order to satisfy an irrational requirement of an unreasonable sector group. That argument is only well-founded if we accept that the unreasonable is reasonable, which we shouldn’t.
GM crops through their pollen contaminate natural crops and stop the production by the plant of the natural seed in just one season of growth.
Then that seed produced is contaminated for ever. Monsanto could trace their product in the ‘natural’ farmer’s product after it had been contaminated by pollenation and sued the farmer!
That is another reason to control manipulated product being used in NZ. It is a plan to control the crop plants of the world by corporates. People who love practical outcomes from science are obsessed with them and ignore the real consequences as externalities to a theory.
1. There are no “natural” crops. All of them are the result of “manipulation” via one mechanism or another.
2. The term “contaminated” is a meaningless pejorative in this context.
3. The role of corporations in agriculture is a separate issue from genetic modification of crop plants, and a much larger one, and applies to organic farming as much as it does to any other type.
Nothing (or everything) natural, perhaps, but lines can be drawn, for example, where the genetic modification of human genes is concerned, there are ethical boundaries set (presently) and beyond that boundary, the results of such modifications are called, “unnatural”. Why not with plants? Manipulation “via one mechanism or other” sure, but not by any mechanism at all. We humans make judgement calls. This is one.
The term “contaminated” isn’t meaningless – it has meaning to most who read it. It may well be perjorative, but it still carries meaning, imo.
I disagree that “The role of corporations in agriculture is a separate issue from genetic modification of crop plants”. You may wish to seperate the two, but you’d have to explain your reasons for doing so. Your wish to do so strengthens the argument that too narrow a focus on the science will produce a dangerously narrow action and result.
It’s thousands of years too late to close the stable door on that one. We humans make judgement calls about ethics, but the ethics of modifying a plant are pretty clear: we’ve been doing it for a very long time, all human civilisations have been based on it, and no compelling ethical argument for not doing it has been offered. If people want to claim that a particular mechanism for modifying plants is ethically unacceptable, it’s up to them to make the case for why that particular mechanism, but not others, is unacceptable.
The term “contaminated” isn’t meaningless – it has meaning to most who read it.
It’s a straightforward pejorative, intended to imply a health threat from GM that doesn’t actually exist. You might as well refer to a cup of coffee as having been “contaminated” by sugar – it lets us know what you think of sugar in your coffee, but doesn’t really do anything else.
You may wish to seperate the two, but you’d have to explain your reasons for doing so.
Genetic engineering is a technology, not a corporation. Like electrical power generation, it can be carried out by public sector organisations, anarchist cooperatives or sufficiently-knowledgeable individuals. The things multi-national corporations get up to that are against the public interest and should be opposed make a long list, but it’s a separate list.
I’m not promoting the closing of the “plants” stable door, I’m warning that throwing it wide open is irresponsible and that we humans have to take responsibility for what we do, especially where it involves other beings/organisms. The people who are claiming that a particular mechanism for modifying plants, GM, is ethically unacceptable, are making a case, as I am endeavouring to do. Do you not see any evidence of such a case being made, PM?
I think it’s you who is reading the pejorative into “contaminated” it’s a straight-forward concept/word; something (foreign) from outside becoming inside. Sugar can indeed be regarded as a contaminant, even when you’ve added it yourself.
Your “Genetic engineering is a technology, not a corporation. ”
seems a similar argument to the gun-lobby’s, “guns don’t kill people, people do” – do you subscribe to that also?
In that case, we’re both in full agreement that unregulated genetic engineering would be a very bad idea. Fortunately, NZ is pretty good at applying regulations to things, and genetic engineering here is mostly carried out by public-sector organisations. And an ironic unintended consequence of banning genetic engineering in well-regulated countries like NZ would be to leave genetic engineering to those countries where good regulations and ethics oversight aren’t the norm. As with nuclear fission, the genie isn’t going to get back in the bottle for us.
What is the ethical case against direct genetic modification of plants? I’ve seen an economic case (it would make it difficult for us to market GE-free food to irrational consumers), and various irrational ones (eg the allegedly-natural is good, the scientific is bad). Any ethical argument against direct rather than indirect genetic modification of plants has passed me by so far.
” NZ is pretty good at applying regulations to things,”
Like … oil exploration?
Most “consumers” probably make “irrational” decisions about the things they consume; that’s not a charge you can direct to organic food buyers alone.
“Any ethical argument against direct rather than indirect genetic modification of plants has passed me by so far.”
Have you explored the statements from the representatives of various indigenous cultures that loudly proclaim their soulful objection to GMOs?
How have you not heard these?
‘You may as well think of coffee as contaminated by sugar’
Really. That’s what you got?
And corporates and GE are obviously separate oh you speak the gospel Milty boy!
Except the funding, the research, the funding for the research, the plans, the implementation, the legalese, the patents, the global advertising, the PR campaigns, the huge fees, the cover ups…
“If I valued your opinion at all, I’d probably care that you think that.”
I’m possibly the most qualified here on evolution having a 2016 masters degree with 1st division honors in the subject. Papers in biotech, chemistry, biochemistry… You can’t talk scientific shit to me I went off and made sure of that. Also helped teach genetics and biotech at university level.
But I’m a buffoon right, cos I lean left and green. And you’ve read some science blogs.
Selective breeding is inherently different – inherently… to genetic engineering. The difference is not nitpicking it is a fundamental shift. From the mixing of parent materials to produce variant offspring – the ‘favorable traits’ chosen for crops… to the insertion of ‘favorable genes’ to a target organism.
Favorable traits are part of an entire genome and may involve whole suites of genes. A selected organism still has phenotypic plasticity due to breeding. The generations of breeding adapt organisms to soil types, climates and conditions. Clones force the forcing of environments to produce crops or are simply production units for factory farming e.g. salmon.
Favorable genes are the products of reductionist science where considering only what’s under examination is acceptable. These genes are ‘selling points’ used to pimp out and displace whole lines of typical fare. The nutritional value doesn’t matter, only shelf life, aesthetics, production and ownership…
It’s a corporate jizz rag. And for the scientists who think they’re playing god, it’s still just a jizz rag.
I didn’t say you were a buffoon, I said your comments give me the impression you don’t know what ‘rational’ means. I’m flattered that you value my opinion enough to care that I think that, but your comments since haven’t changed that opinion.
What argument are you trying to make in the comment above? It looks like your argument is that, because direct genetic modification is different from the indirect genetic modification that results from selective breeding, direct genetic modification is therefore a Bad Thing. There also appears to be a secondary argument that, because private corporations are involved in genetic engineering, genetic engineering is therefore a Bad Thing.
Both of those are non-sequiturs. Your personal preference for selective breeding isn’t an argument for it, and genetic engineering in this country is the preserve of public-sector institutions, not private corporations. And the scientists involved aren’t “playing god” so much as “doing their jobs.”
Doing their jobs, scientists can often be funded by private corporations directly or through funding a Party or Minister surruptitiously? to get their plans furthered, You make such sure statements, it is as if you were ten and hadn’t learned anything about the string-pulling and puppet-dance that goes on always except we don’t hear about it till a whistle blows. Time out for oranges!
My point was that selecting an organism is hugely different from selecting a gene. Both in its scope of focus, and it’s lack of holistic understanding.
Your argument that selective breeding is comparative to GE is, to speak plainly, plainly bullshit.
We have broken the planet and still arrogantly declare we have mastered the genetic code, meanwhile we can’t even spell out what drives evolution – after 200 years of debate. (actually, I can, but it’s still up for debate…)
Biodiversity (including within a species aka genetic diversity) is crucial. Especially in times of rapid change. Extinction or simply functional extinction is a result of the loss of the ability to adapt. The ability to adapt and biodiversity are intrinsically linked – So are climate change and rapid environmental alterations.
Meanwhile the delusional carry on banging about in the dark and calling themselves illuminated.
Doing their jobs, scientists can often be funded by private corporations directly or through funding a Party or Minister surruptitiously?
If human activity being subject to human nature is an argument against genetic engineering, it’s an argument against every other human activity as well.
Also: I see you still can’t comment without giving me a personality assessment while you’re at it.
I was wondering how long it would take for that ‘argument’ to be made…
It speaks to the survival rate of our species, but alao speaks to the lack of wisdom which has left the planet and environment in its present state…
Scientists, and those who direct them, fund them, manage the outputs and seek to control the paths taken simply CAN NEVER control the unlimited variables….
Talk of ‘precise’ GE is flawed thinking of the most fundamental type…
There are unlimited possible consequences which could follow from a single dna/gene alteration…which can NEVER be tested…
Once a GMO is released into the environment, those outcomes can’t be undone…
Believing that it is about ‘precise’…is anything but , precise thinking…
The wisdom to stop what is being done…the wisdom to know that those who have created the problems are NOT the solution to them…
But they will keep going…with the support of people who are blinded by the ‘awesome’ of ‘progress’, ‘advancement’ …
Your argument that selective breeding is comparative to GE is, to speak plainly, plainly bullshit.
They’re different tools for doing the same job, with GE being a faster and more precise tool. Someone who chooses to protect in a plant a natural mutation that’s useful to the person but would be evolutionarily disadvantageous to the plant isn’t taking a “holistic” or “natural” approach any more than a genetic engineer does. They’re both just using the tools they have to achieve a desired outcome.
Your statements about “breaking the planet” and biodiversity are claims about human population growth and industrial farming in general, not genetic engineering in particular. The entire planet could outlaw GE tomorrow and the problems you’re referring to would still exist, and could conceivably be worse. This is a common problem with the arguments of GE opponents, ie the arguments often do not support the conclusions claimed.
“This is a common problem with the arguments of GE opponents, ie the arguments often do not support the conclusions claimed.”
Yes, I think that’s true.
I also think the arguments of the GE proponents lack the “buffers” that come from outside of pure logic, buffers which come from somewhere other than the brain. The same issue is found in medicine, where the precise extract of a plant, synthesised even, becomes the medicine, rather than the plant itself, which contained the buffers that moderate the effects on the body. The two schools rarely mix, though I met a GP yesterday who practices both.
And as WeTheBeeple may not be aware being a relative newie here, it is great to see you back as one of the longest term commenters here at TS.
I get what you are saying, PM and your comment at 7.54am is an excellent summary.
EDIT – for Robert Guyton. A very complicated misunderstanding between two moderators which is now history and best left as such. PM’s ban was rescinded very shortly thereafter but PM has only recently learned this and returned.
Traditional biodiversity in nature is produced by cross-pollination as well as mutation, so the argument that GE users are just adding to the mix has some merit. However it is also reasonable to view un-natural cross-pollinators as pollutants in the ecosystem. If the latter produce harmful health or economic consequences for consumers and/or farmers, polluters must pay.
Genetic mutations occur naturally, that’s for sure. The issue is, I think, the intent behind human-activated mutations – who’s doing it for what purpose? That’s the aspect of the debate the scientists won’t address (it’s not science, you see). That, along with unintended consequences/risk, is the hole in their argument, imo.
Yes, as a science grad I get that, and have long been aware that lack of science in the Green movement allows fundamentalism to prevail over a balanced view.
Ethics is an essential basis for public policy. Politicians shy away, due to it being traditionally deemed too esoteric to be useful. A mistake.
The organic food industry is a product of its market which dictates the need for food to be GMO free. It bias therefore a reasonable position for the industry to take. It wants to provide what its market demands.
The evidence of poor health, disease and illness is all around, Wayne…and rapidly increasing…
The sheer quantity of toxic environmental contaminates which the modern world is made of, reduces the ability to identify causes of disease and illness…to statements such as…
PM
In logic, reductio ad absurdum (Latin for “reduction to absurdity”), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin for “argument to absurdity”) or the appeal to extremes, is a form of argument that attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, …
Reductio ad absurdum – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
This is what you are resorting to Psycho Milt. Can you keep on track. This is a serious matter, not an afternoon’s entertainment for a dilettante.
Well, if we want to just use cherry-picked data out of context, we could point to the US and try on the argument that American life expectancy is reducing and that Americans are also the biggest GMO consumers. But that also requires trying to make the argument that eating GMOs causes people to become suicidal and drug dependent …
“The degradation of the biomass of all Bt [GMO] plants in the absence of soil but inoculated with a microbial suspension from the same soil was also significantly less than that of their respective inoculated non-Bt plants. The addition of streptomycin, cycloheximide, or both to the soil suspension did not alter the relative degradation of Bt+ and Bt− biomass, suggesting that differences in the soil microbiota were not responsible for the differential decomposition of Bt+ and Bt− biomass. All samples of soil amended with biomass of Bt plants were immunologically positive for the respective Cry proteins and toxic to the larvae of the tobacco hornworm (Manduca sexta), which was used as a representative lepidopteran in insect bioassays (no insecticidal assay was done for the Cry3A protein from potato). The ecological and environmental relevance of these findings is not clear.”
And repeat
‘The ecological and environmental relevance of these findings is not clear.’
Well… the plants don’t break down as well so the soil is not replenished requiring more inputs aka fertilizers. The insects die so the grinding and shredding of plant material is missing, and the unique diversity of micro fauna the insects bring to the composting process. The worms probably go too, and with it water penetration and aeration, leading to compaction and the ‘need’ for large machinery and tillage despite having a ground cover.
No. When the authors have one discipline, like most scientists, they are not able to contemplate potential outcomes outside their box.
Humans have become quite useless thinkers in this specialised world. Multidisciplinary thinkers have been called for, but few answered the call they all go to their cubicles.
Also called hedging their bets. Scientists are terribly concerned with being wrong, unhealthily so in many instances fighting their entire lives over some infinitesimal point.
I think you’ll find that without grinders and shredders, the grinding and shredding is not there, nor the commensals from the grinders and shredders.
See above, Stunned Mullet, for just one. There are many more. Put up an example of why you believe GMOs should be employed here and I’ll counter with others against.
Not sure I understand that reasoning Robert. To my mind GM agriculture offers some extremely actrsctive benefits much as those we’ve seen in medicine over the last several decades.
SM said: To my mind GM agriculture offers some extremely actrsctive benefits much as those we’ve seen in medicine over the last several decades.
But my understanding is that GE medicines are created in the lab. That is not “agriculture”. I might be wrong, i did use a question mark, and if i am wrong then SM can link to some GE medicine being grown in the environment.
That’s right, solkta, but the lines are already blurring; plants that contain the “medicines” in question are being grown in (some) fields. Non-rabid commenters who oppose the use of GMOs in agriculture/horticulture/aquaculture have long said there’s a place for medical research using GMOs in the lab. The industry continues to expand as much as the public will allow and are aiming for…everywhere.
What’s happening here in NZ is that the agricultural industry is pushing (hard) for the release of GMO grasses across the whole “NZ farm” – that’s massive. Why do they want to do that? To “concrete in” farming as a viable industry and make it more profitable, in the face of Mother Nature’s pressure on them to stop; rivers and estuaries steeped in nitrogen, soils washed out to sea, poisonous cadmium spread around farmland like icing on a cake and much more. They are meeting the threat of climate change by doubling-down.
Conventional farming, SM, not viable.
As to your second point, does it? Others may behave that way, Stunned, but not me 🙂 I take a nuanced, thoughtful, open-minded approach to this topic, it being, or rather plants being, dear to my heart. Humans too, and the rest of Creation.
The debate is not only a binary problem (yes /no) there are significant plausible arguments that the so called science of GMO underestimate risk (and ruin) for not understanding the risk models hence a precautionary response in policy is required.
On GMOs: “A pound of algebra is worth a ton of verbal commentary”. I managed to fit the Precautionary Principle into a few lines. The GMO paid propagandists are pounding tons of verbalistic statements (even an incompetent smear campaign), but this simple summary should cancel about everything they are trying to say. In a single column. They need to refute my representation or show that f(breeding) has the same maximum as f(GMOs).
“NBC News veteran slams network’s ‘hostage status’ to Trump in resignation letter”
“Pro-war ‘Trump circus’: Veteran reporter quits NBC with biting critique of corporate newsroom ”
“Mr. Arkin, who is staunchly anti-war and far from being a supporter of Mr. Trump, said part of his reason for leaving NBC was the network’s obsession with opposing the president at every turn.
“Of course he is an ignorant and incompetent impostor. And yet I’m alarmed at how quick NBC is to mechanically argue the contrary, to be in favor of policies that just spell more conflict and more war,” he wrote. “Really? We shouldn’t get out Syria? We shouldn’t go for the bold move of denuclearizing the Korean peninsula? Even on Russia, though we should be concerned about the brittleness of our democracy that it is so vulnerable to manipulation, do we really yearn for the Cold War? And don’t even get me started with the FBI: What? We now lionize this historically destructive institution?”
I would say you could easily transpose this letter to most most mainstream ‘liberal’ new sources.
Few us msm outlets are dealing well with Trump.
i dont blame them. We’re not expecting another Edward R Murrow anyntime soon.
Trump is truly a phenomenon breaking multiple institutions public and private – and US politics or co2verage won’t return to pre-trump status ever. This shutdown is going to gut the remaining public sector there for several years.
its more surprising there havent been whole tv stations going down.
we may not like some of the status quo biases of the msm, but we’ll miss them when they’re gone.
“some’ of the status quo biases?? Really?.The msm were hijacked by the powers that be a long long time ago.
Journalism itself has been destroyed and twisted by the ‘manufacturing of consent’. We get thrown the occasional treat to make us think they are still relevant, but for the most part they serve up more propoganda and diversions and rewriting of history than anything that could actually enable an informed and aware population that will make the demands of its leaders that we actually need….
You don’t? Is some all-powerful force compelling the New York Times to write hundreds, thousands of speculative pieces about “Russian collusion”? Is Rachel Maddow being bullied and beaten every morning into composing her mad conspiracy theories?
We’re not expecting another Edward R Murrow anytime soon.
??????
The United States has scores of dedicated, honest, courageous journalists, every one of whom makes Ed Murrow look like a second-rater. Glenn Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill, Laura Poitros, Aaron Maté, Juan Gonzalez, Amy Goodman, Allan Nairn, Ryan Gallagher, James Risen, Ryan Devereaux, Laura Feeney, Peter Maass, Murtaza Hussain, Paul Jay….
Ask yourself why we hardly ever see them on the networks or on CNN, but we see no end of the likes of Rachel Maddow and Eric Alterman.
I agree this is significant news, indicating an establishment divide between warmongers and peacemakers. Trump’s unilateral pull-out from both wars aligns him with the latter camp. They will respond by pretending it hasn’t happened!
“Arkin has worked for NBC on and off for three decades, sometimes as a military analyst, sometimes as a reporter and consultant. He describes himself as a scholar at heart, and he has authored numerous books about national security, most recently “Unmanned,” subtitled “drones, data, and the illusion of perfect warfare.”
“Friday will be his last day at NBC, according to his internal memo on Wednesday. It was shared with CNN by one of the recipients, and NBC confirmed its authenticity.
The network had no comment on his departure. Arkin is a sharp critic of what he calls “perpetual war” and the “creeping fascism of homeland security.”
An anti-fascist prominent member of the establishment resigning in disgust due to media bias against Trump is likely to produce cognitive dissonance in the minds of those who belief Trump is fascist. Therefore they will pretend this hasn’t happened.
An anti-fascist prominent member of the establishment resigning in disgust due to media bias against Trump is likely to produce cognitive dissonance in the minds of those who belief Trump is fascist. Therefore they will pretend this hasn’t happened.
Okay – I was trying to look up archived Robert’s How to get there; under Environment – climate change and it has not go the two links and listings above in the column. Could they be added please so that it is a complete record from the beginning. Thanks to whoever looks after the housework!
To those who have been supportive and chatted about hip operations, my date for a full hip replacement operation is 18th Jan . Yay!! At last!! Thanks again. Just think, I might be able to be in the garden again, though kneeling and bending are out.
Raised garden beds with plank around for sitting on for you Patricia, and fold up stool for other garden locations. Your plants will love to see you around again.
Thanks greywarshark, I look forward to dead heading the rose bushes, and just being out there again. A walker rather limits access. We have done a deal of companion planting, and have our rampant successes, the chrysanthemums have needed thinning. We now have a plethora of small flowers atop bushes lol lol.
Thrilled for you, patricia. I had to have my right one replaced over twelve years ago now, at a younger age than most. It was in a really bad way by the time the operation was done as it went bad very fast. But within about six months, I was back gardening including digging, mowing lawns etc Some simple rules apply like bending etc no more than 90 degrees. Once that is embedded in your thinking, it is amazing at how many different positions for sitting, kneeling etc you find that fit within that rule.
But what don’t they tell you about the after-effects?
The biggest and most long lasting effect I found was the inability to cut your own toenails!!! I still stuggle with this tiny little action.
So my advice to anyone who has a friend, family member etc having a hip replacement is forget the flowers – contributions to, vouchers etc for toe nail clipping, pedicures etc are much more practical and longer lasting. LOL.
Another practical gift is one of those long handled brush and pan kits – preferably a strongly made one with the biggest pan you can find, not the flimsy teeny ones with tiny pans. Forget using it for cleaning – its great for picking up dropped items like books etc by using the handle end of the brush to push the item into the pan, and then the long handle of the pan to raise it to a level to retrieve the item without bending. Also great for picking up and putting down pet food bowls etc using the same technique.
And also hope you have had safety bars installed in showers etc. And do the exercises after the op. These and the walking are essential to recovery.
I guess this is where people get into term difficulties. I have so this is what I found out.
Pedicure – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedicure
A pedicure is a cosmetic treatment of the feet and toenails, analogous to a manicure. Pedicures are done for cosmetic, therapeutic purposes. They are popular …
Pediatrician (or paediatrician – childrens doctor) – but one google advice tip advised a pediatrician for in-grown toenails, however podiatrist is correct.
Podiatrist
A podiatrist, also known as a podiatric physician or “foot and ankle surgeon”, is a medical professional devoted to the study and medical treatment of disorders of the foot, ankle and lower extremity.
Podiatrist – Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podiatrist
When to See a Podiatrist If Your Feet Give You Grief. … On a daily basis, podiatrists treat a wide range of conditions including arthritis pain, bunions, calluses and corns, diabetes complications, ingrown toenails, sports injuries, and more. They are also trained to diagnose infections of the foot and toenails.Aug 22, 2018
When to See a Podiatrist If Your Feet Give You Grief – Verywell Health https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-you-need-a-podiatrist-1337680
Although many people get confused in understanding the difference between a chiropodist and a podiatrist, to be honest there is no difference between the two. … Podiatrists and chiropodists can also treat and alleviate day-to-day foot problems such as fungal or ingrown toenails.Jul 22, 2015
What is Podiatry/Chiropody? – Spectrum Foot Clinics http://www.spectrumfootclinics.ie/blog/whatispodiatry
(It is very strange that google won’t give me much information about chiropodists and instead inserts podiatrist information. There must be something written into the program that limits chiropody details and puts podiatry to the fore.)
Pedophile – (Not foot-oriented. Have read of a case of confusion with protests outside a children’s doctor clinic.)
Some GP practices have either nurses trained in this or trained people who visit the practice regularly to offer these and other similar services; or they have information about where these services can be accessed.
Some physiotherapy practices also offer such services. Also podiatry/chiropody practices obviously do this; and also day spas and similar beauty therapy businesses who offer pedicures etc.
“The biggest and most long lasting effect I found was the inability to cut your own toenails”.
Fascinating. I had both hips replaced and after I recovered, which took the best part of 6 months I was happy that I could now cut my toenails.
I hadn’t been able to do it for a couple of years before the op.
I guess it just affects people in different ways.
Thank you so much… Norm has been instructed to find such a long handled “not flimsy” brush and shovel. xx He will probably use it as well. Luckily we do each others nails… a problem on your own, and a future need to consider.
Driving again!!… being able to climb stairs and visit again Yay!!
Prices vary and some very expensive professional ones. From memory the ones I had were from Mitre 10 but haven’t seen those ones again. (had one at each end of the house.
But the Warehouse green Sabco one is similar from the picture. And two good reviews. The Mitre 10 Raven one is also one I would look at, and Bunnings seem to have a similar one.
The ones I had at the time of my op did not fold up (ie the pan part) and I would be careful with those in case they folded when you did not want them to. But I could be wrong.
I think I told you some months ago that I had my op under spinal and a little bit of sedation and not general anesthesia. Not everyone’s cup of tea but would trade again ++++ !!! Was up and out of bed and eating two hours after the op, dressed the next day and walking up and down stairs; and home less than three days later.
Thank you so much. We won the cricket too!! Yes I have to get clearance from my Dr. to drive again after the op because this my “non polio” leg.
One of those sets looks similar to the one we had in our motor home. Two placed strategically sounds sensible. Thanks for your help and good wishes.
Forgot driving. I think you are not supposed to drive for six weeks (?) afterwards – could affect your insurance. May pay to check that. Because I am on my own I drove (whispers) 6 days after my op. (Ssssshhhh).
I haven’t, but looks interesting. Their thesis is non-contraversial, and widely-known already, I suspect – but probably worth elaborating on:
“Acemoglu and Robinson’s major thesis is that economic prosperity depends above all on the inclusiveness of economic and political institutions. Institutions are “inclusive” when many people have a say in political decision-making, as opposed to cases where a small group of people control political institutions and are unwilling to change. They argue that a functioning democratic and pluralistic state guarantees the rule of law. The authors also argue that inclusive institutions promote economic prosperity because they provide an incentive structure that allows talents and creative ideas to be rewarded.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail
This is a great video that is highlighting the housing building going on in Auckland that does not seem to show a shortage of houses or land.
What is also interesting is that Auckland council and Auckland Transport has learnt nothing, there are no cycle lanes on the housing estates and there is an air of1950’s style of living (aka 70 years out of date planning) with everyone getting out by car. Sadly with only 1 lane roads and no public transport around some of the new housing estates, not only will it be a nightmare living in many of these estates it will impact also ALL the traffic flows of the entire region!
There are also no parks or places for kids to play in many of them. It’s as bad as Albany but they at least the planners or developers learnt to put in the footpaths this time. Maybe in another 70 years Auckland council might work out that they need to plan for how thousands people get around when there is only 1 road in and out? Of Course the best and brightest will have left the country by then as the low wages, poorly thought out living and commute times will have repelled them away.
Why were the developers not expected to put in cycle lanes or parks with large developments?
These housing estates are a scam where a lot of the time the costs both financial and social will fall back on the ratepayers and existing residents of Auckland, and the existing issues of improving pollution and transport links to EXISTING housing estates should be the priority for ratepayers money, NOT making the existing problems worse and ratepayers money (and council debt) helping developers make more profits on speculative million dollar housing estates that increasingly workers can’t afford to rent or buy.
“Why were the developers not expected to put in cycle lanes or parks with large developments?”
Because the government they supported changed the regulations in their favour. The harm lasts decades. West Auckland suburb Massey is a classic example.
@ Sacha, That is completely true, but I don’t seem to remember a lot of dissent from the left, or Auckland council, during the unitary plan pointing this out, instead they concentrated like the Natz on denigrating ‘NIMBYISM’ as a reason to push it through.
Most of the poverty groups were so stupid they were largely in agreement with the Natz for the unitary plan , NOT against them just like the MSM and left blog sites. Never saw the Green Party protesting against the unity plan, nor Labour or anyone of significance pointing out the obvious flaws in the many media debates there were – nope it was build, build, build, and ignore everything else, and if you look at Kiwibuy it is the same concept.
The houses being built for Kiwibuy are not affordable for the bottom 35% and not helping the bottom 35% out, instead they are making it worse and they are taking away resources from existing ratepayers for transport opportunities and pollution upgrades for existing housing and workers needing it NOW.
The existing houses should have the priorities because they are the workers already needing the services and paying for them! Not have the money hijacked by developers and in particular developments pictured that are making it worse for everybody else aka the housing around Huapai.
Instead of blaming National and others they need to take a good hard look at their owned flawed policy on the subject.
In many cases there are already cheap options like the rail network at Kumeu. But there is no plan to open the trains there to the public because they can’t be bothered solving the issues.
Instead of solving the issues for that existing train track they are instead doing nothing in the short term and expecting those people to teleport to the train station in west Auckland being built in the next decade…. pathetic reasoning when there is already a train line close by from Helensville that used to operate.
That is why nobody trusts the council anymore or the transport agencies they are stupid and corrupt. The jailed ones are just the tip of the iceberg…
So your point is that it is Auckland city councils fault? Makes sense to me!
If the developer paid the correct contributions for their developments why is there billions outstanding to be paid? Clearly someone can’t work out the numbers when they set the contributions, or the council has misspent the contributions.
Since apparently half of the rates going to council is spent on their own wages then something is clearly going wrong somewhere.
And clearly the developers are doing deals getting out of paying for the infrastructure…
BTW – Owners of 9,000 new homes north of Auckland will pay an “infrastructure fee” to advance the displacement of roads and water works in development.
So the developers are passing the development costs to the new owners in effect putting up the price of houses and securing more risk for the ratepayers and future owners while making sure the big developers pay less and keep more profits…
Gosh I thought all that new housing was supposed to make housing more affordable not more expensive! sarcasm. Instead the new idea is to rip them off with 30 years of extra charges on top of their rates.
Still government has not worked out how much lost productivity there is by allowing so many extra housing estates to go ahead when it is already difficult to get around Auckland with the massive congestion and slow moving, expensive, unreliable and pathetic public transport and what is going to happen when working people refuse to live in the estates and Auckland is filled up with retiree’s and people who qualify for low income rates relief (on paper) or the developers start going bust or like leaky building, they need remedial work and nobody wants to live there.
“So your point is that it is Auckland city councils fault?”
How on earth do you get that?
“Owners of 9,000 new homes north of Auckland will pay an “infrastructure fee” to advance the displacement of roads and water works in development.”
That’s the new govt’s policy to fix the problem. But again you are mis-reading what it does. Maybe take a break and try again later with a cooler head.
The infrastructure that is being paid for is to get/receive or take stormwater, wastewater, power, gas roading to the development. Developers cannot construct infrastructure outside their land ownership, they pay contributions to enable this. Unfortunately Watercare, AC etc has no money to pay for this, but still receive infrastructure payments.
Watercare is spending up large to fix existing problems e.g sewage being pumped into our waterways/beaches. And to allow for intensified CBD with all these new apartments. Pity we load the sewage system now, and the fix will be effective in the future https://www.watercare.co.nz/About-us/Projects-around-Auckland/Central-Interceptor
And to address the Auckland sprawl, how about keeping election promises regarding reducing immigration ?? 😤
Auckland is lovely, around every corner is a water view. The problem with so many water views is that building land is scarce. Strips of dirt between bodies of water.
Immigration or not, I think the best way to release steam from the Auckland pressure cooker is to enhance peoples’ desire to live elsewhere. I think loading up a politician’s pockets and sending them off to stimulate the provinces was a great idea…I’m a bit worried about the execution. Shane has enough money to make a difference. Enough to get a ‘C’mon over here man, I’m getting $900 a week’, grapevine buzzing.
Housing is as much of an issue as it is in Auckland in the provinces. But they’re there, they’re usually expensive by Whangarei/Napier/Kaikohe standards but bargains if in Aux.
I don’t think our government should be telling us where to live but they could be seeding some good reasons not to choose Auckland.
Do you understand how the people of Thailand feel about their monarchy?
Are you trying to say, that the people of Thailand should be concerned about their monarchy?
What historical basis would you have for believing as such?
Do those you associate with there oppose the monarchy?
I’ve taken some liberties in reading through your intentions, by posting the economist link, and those links and comments previously made regarding Thailand…
Oh, and that propaganda site you linked to…the site that lists Thaksin Shinawatra as a political prisoner…openly berates the monarchy…referring to them as ‘useless’…among other things…
When +/- 95% of all Thais, regardless of their religion, politics or status…love their monarchy…
The Thai monarchy is not the parasite UK.or Euro monarchy, Bruce…
Bruce has been posting, what I initially thought was well meaning, yet misinformed comments and links about Thailand…
Bruce has indicated he may either live or frequently visit Thailand, or perhaps somewhere else in SE Asia…
Thing is, in recent times I’ve been responding to the postings Bruce has made, especially the previous link he posted last week and now this one…you can look it up…
I believe that Bruce means well…but he is clearly parroting the wests agenda against Thailand…
..so I have questioned him and called him out…
Let’s see what excuses and deflections he comes up with this week…
We have a few here who the post the neocon West’s agenda.
There appears a constant need to be providing pushback against lies about Syria, Ukraine, Libya and Venezuela as well.
At some stage sections of the ‘liberal’ left got captured by the Blairite/Clinton interventionist policies.
Bruce, is not part of that group, so far as I can tell.
I still believe he is misinformed, however there are no excuses for remaining so…despite his statements last week around censorship…
There are also not many possibilities, why he would claim to be commenting in good faith from his experiences and contacts in Thailand, yet continually parrot a negative narrative about the Thai monarchy which is incorrect and untrue…
As I’ve said to Bruce…there are long standing and historical reasons why the Thai monarchy has close to 100% support of Thai people…it seems he is ignorant of the basic historical contexts…
If nations have a monarchy, then the Thai model would be a good example of how to actively contribute to nation building….
They have bee the opposite of the polarising Uk and Euro parastitical monarchy’s…
No again the propaganda got you , I was impressed to see how the last bit of toothpaste was squeezed from the tube, the suffiency economy ; but then wondered about the cost of handmaking the one of a kind special tube. His mothers house at Doi Tung however is a thing of beauty not one tree was cut to build and its lined with old packing crates and pallets, a beautiful garden where Arka once grew opium, and her book Busy Hands, is worth the read. I am quite a fan of the sister and shared the same aspiration of many that she would be the one to follow on.
If the neocon west is using this guy to further their agenda we got nothing to worry about. His interests are for one goal only. Just Google and get some background on the removal of the monument and 1932 plate, if your interests and where he wants to take us align I give up all hope.
For the planet’s sake his ideas are unique, otherwise buy shares in the knee pad factory because that what you’ll need .
Yes I do know how many of the people feel about the monarchy, it’s not at topic of open conversation but people are aware. You may feel the same warmth has passed from the old to the new but this is not the case.
People are not concerned they get on with life as they always have, the guys they pulled from the Mea Kong with bellies full of concrete had concerns by they have passed.
I feel you may be the victim of propaganda, the thing about finding out is to look at many sources,find the themes that concur and run with these.
I guess you stand with the watchman, he has no convictions, but the stories of bomb detectors, overpriced helicopters and submarines for a shallow gulf may explain the us million dollars of accesories on a $50,000 a year sallary.
Again I don’t think the general population knows it’s tax dollars are spent flying circles in the sky over Europe.
It’s just that from a position of white man privilege I believe all men are equal and deserve the same opportunities not to be considered as dust beneath ones feet.
Again if you want to get the kids opinion look for ‘rap against dictatorship’ on u tube. It has subtitles and Google some of the references may help to open your eyes.
Too see the hero in action try birthday party, the country and his previous position.
Bruce, as per my previous comments to you…I deliberately did not respond to your comment I read last week, because there were too many fallacies to address….
You may feel the same warmth has passed from the old to the new but this is not the case
No, I am acutely aware of what the prevailing concerns were towards Vajiralongkorn the son of Rama 9, and the angst which was felt as Rama 9 aged, knowing that his passing would come one day… But those concerns have been put aside in the last couple of years, as Thais have come to believe that Vajiralongkorn intends to follow where is father left off….as best as he can….
People are not concerned they get on with life as they always have, the guys they pulled from the Mea Kong with bellies full of concrete had concerns by they have passed
Yes they get on with life, as they always have and always will….Did you know ‘those guys in the river’ well, Bruce ?
I feel you may be the victim of propaganda,
Incorrect, projection…
the thing about finding out is to look at many sources,find the themes that concur and run with these.
Is that how ‘finding out’ is done, is it, Bruce ?
Last week you claimed to read various sources…but complained about censorship when I questioned the propaganda sites you have been linking to…
Which is it, Bruce ? Do read widely, or are you censored from reading sites that support your bias ? Can’t have it both ways, can you …..The comments and links you put up tell me that, not only is your reading scope narrow, but that you clearly have a bias which will prevent you from ‘finding out’ anything which does not fit your clear bias….
I guess you stand with the watchman, he has no convictions, but the stories of bomb detectors, overpriced helicopters and submarines for a shallow gulf may explain the us million dollars of accesories on a $50,000 a year sallary.
Again I don’t think the general population knows it’s tax dollars are spent flying circles in the sky over Europe.
Who is the watchman ? Is that a derogatory name you learned from elsewhere or did you come up with it yourself ?
Are you seriously pointing fingers, Bruce ? I’ve already highlighted to you what the politicians have done to Thailand leading to criminal convictions for fraud and corruption….now they live in exile….yes it goes back farther than that, but as you seem to have a short term, imbalanced view of the current government and soon to be Rama 10, I am keeping it to the last 20 years when talking about how ‘tax dollars’ are spent….
I stand with the people of Thailand….those who are not interested in taking the country back towards civil war….again…, and those who are not set on being the western paid for and sponsored actors…guests in sovereign nation…those convicted criminals whose sponsors are displeased that Thailand is turning away from ‘The West’….
It’s just that from a position of white man privilege I believe all men are equal and deserve the same opportunities not to be considered as dust beneath ones feet.
Leaving aside your issue of skin colour/ sex , I would agree with you on equality….perhaps if you understood some of the history of the Thai Monarchy going back many hundreds of years, to even before there was the Thai Monarchy, you might understand why your comments and links appear to me as propaganda…
Again if you want to get the kids opinion look for ‘rap against dictatorship’ on u tube. It has subtitles and Google some of the references may help to open your eyes.
Too see the hero in action try birthday party, the country and his previous position
No, thanks I do not want or need ‘the kids opinions’. I have access to serious historical information and teachings….
Your links have been uninformed and highly dubious, so I have no intention of searching anything you suggest…
If you are genuinely in support of ‘Thai people’ and Thailand, then you should uplift your level of understanding of Thai history and politics….
Currently your comments, links and perspective indicate you are severely lacking….and as such you are letting down the very people you claim to stand with!
Thanks for that, I come for a Mon festival the people before the Tai and have read a bit about what happened to them.
I will however stick with the kids, it is as they say their country and they are it’s future.
I struggle daily understanding Thai culture and politics, this morning , I took 3 dozen plastic bottled of water and 3 bottles of palm oil to a man in a robe who tied a piece of string on my wrist that will bring me good fortune, gives me much to think about. I guess I must bow to your superior wisdom and strive to better myself and achieve the level of understanding you have.
Understanding also comes, from what we do not know….and seeking to find methods which build on what we do know…and then continuing to be open to changing our views and opinions along the journey….
I am fortunate to have access to a Thai historical scholar, who is always pleased to share knowledge and wisdom…I, just like you, am a journeyman….
Why do you struggle with Thai culture, and what about that culture is it that perplexes you ?
The story you tell sounds like you might be against Thailand’s largest religion, as well as the current government, the military and the monarchy….
Was it a (genuine) monk ? If so, which temple/district were you at ?
You realise that the ‘offerings’ are shared with other people right ?
You understand that someone can walk into a temple to seek refuge and sustenance at any time, and quench their thirst from a bottle of water which you gave…
Give from the heart, Bruce…if you are confused about aspects of an ancient country, and its ancient peoples for which you are a guest, then just be pleased that you are able to be there….
I understand the giving and the sharing but in the background there is a greater concern and that is for the survival of the planet, I try to avoid using plastic and certainly do not partake willingly in palm oil.
In March the sun will disappear behind a haze that won’t clear till the rains come in June this worries me . I feel as a part of my purpose that I try to change this for all our sakes but as you point out it’s been this way for milenia and who am i to try to change it.
We need to participate in this world, but that participation comes with multi tiered impacts…
Do what feels right, Bruce…do what you can, don’t carry guilt as it serves no purpose…
I see comments that climate change is the ‘biggest issue’ humanity faces…but I do not agree…
The ‘biggest issue’ IMO is the lies, deceit, misdirection and information black outs…every one of us is making decisions from varying degrees of inaccurate data….that is a root cause problem…at least in the so called developed nations populations who are paying any attention…
We are all living in a lie…
The planet will be ok, Bruce…it is part of a system which far exceeds the influence of our species…
Not so bright Lebanese “student” schooled by George Galloway
Oxford University’s reputation is steadily declining. The catastrophically hopeless ex-ACT leader Jamie (“Lock Up His Sister”) Whyte is or was on the faculty—teaching philosophy, for pity’s sake! And it’s full of dimwits like this foolish, ignorant kid….
Galloway is a genius.
I recommend you listen to his show every Saturday morning (Friday evening UK time). It is the ‘University of the airwaves.’
Some of his wisdom.
“Now it’s well known to regular listeners I’m a follower not of Marx not of Lenin, but of Aristotle.
Aristotle’s view that the richest should be no more than three times richer than the poorest for the perfect equilibrium in society is something I support..”
Jamie Whyte has offered many highly-objectionable philosophical viewpoints (eg, his view that external enforcement of safety in the workplace is unnecessary because unsafe workplaces would find it difficult to hire staff). And yet, given that range of genuinely objectionable views to choose from, you go with a cheap misrepresentation (a lie, to be blunt) about his unremarkable view that incest shouldn’t be a matter for the criminal justice system.
That was his problem. Most non-ACT voters—i.e., nearly everyone—thinks incest is beyond the realm of decency. Not Jamie Whyte, though. To add fuel to his self-immolation, he was dumb enough to defiantly insist he’d said nothing wrong. And then he backed down a bit….
Just the fact he was stupid enough to think he could say it. Of all the issues in the world he could have been focusing on—for instance, he could have stood up for Nicky Hager and John Stephenson, who were both being persecuted by Key and his cronies—he chose incest as his point of difference.
If there was a stupider leader of any party in this country in the last one hundred years, I’d be surprised.
Of all the issues in the world he could have been focusing on … he chose incest as his point of difference.
Focused on? Chose as his point of difference? Try paying attention to what you’re reading – journalists put a lot of effort into combing through Whyte’s previous writings for something that might wrong-foot him in an interview, and found that one. He didn’t “choose” to “focus” on it any more than Corbyn “chose” to “focus” on which cemeteries he’s attended in his lifetime.
There were plenty of issues where Whyte was not merely wrong-footed, but nonplussed and completely out of his depth. He was particularly ignorant about the Treaty of Waitangi, and disdainfully told one interviewer he had no knowledge or interest in New Zealand history.
And mentioning a serious, intelligent politician like Jeremy Corbyn in the same breath as Jamie Whyte is hardly appropriate.
I think you’re playing the man and not the ball Morrissey. This over vented misconception about Jamie being hunky dory with kiddie fiddling says more about you than him.
Play the ball man. Jamie figures we are all in control of our own destinies. As any of us that have played the game of life can attest, sometimes buses splinter legs….Jamie’s way encounters a bit of a problem.
Drop the pedo shite and pitch a decent argument Morrissey. You have a great mind wasted on windmill tilting.
Let’s begin with the Auckland Harbour Bridge and extend the Busway from where it currently stops at Onewa Road right across the Bridge.
And make it fare free. People would abandon their cars in droves.
They would be crazy not to.
No traffic jams, no parking hassles and expense, no fiddling with change or tickets, riding across the bridge in comfort and looking at the fantastic view, (instead of the car in front’s bumper), tired of the view, hook onto the bus’s WiFi, read the news, send an email watch a funny video on You Tube. Step off the bus in Queen Street and straight into your office. Or if you work further afield, at the Britomart Station to continue your journey.
Apologies if a repost, but here’s an interesting read, one of the many political round-ups of 2018. Graham Adams writes:
We discovered that farmers — who only last year were calling Jacinda Ardern a “pretty communist” while vocally resisting a water tax — are apparently happy to allow the state to take most of the financial responsibility for the cattle disease Mycoplasma bovis that looked as if it might decimate their livelihoods.In May, the Government announced it would pay 68 per cent of the estimated $870 million the eradication effort would cost. The balance will be split — after much wrangling — between dairy and beef farmers.
Yeah, not sure why we are footing the lion’s share of the bill for this. I believe dairy and beef farmers should pay the consequences for their own poor attitude to animal tracing themselves. Massive corporate welfare – it stinks.
Journalists periodically try to interview (Dr Jian Yang) the National list MP but he refuses to speak to the English-language media. When TVNZ’s John Campbell went to his office in November with a camera crew, he was told Dr Yang wouldn’t be coming out to talk to him. Campbell has been trying to interview him for more than a year. Other journalists have also tried and failed to organise a chat with the elusive MP. You might think that a parliamentary representative refusing to speak to the media is remarkable to the point of being outrageous. You might also think — whether in amazement or despair — “Only in New Zealand!”
Wow! I did not know this. Why are we paying this clown $200K when he refuses to be accountable to the people paying him?
The most prominent stirrer of the year has been Botany MP Jami-Lee Ross. But despite the fact he has given us valuable insights into how Chinese money may be corrupting our politics and how political donations can be disguised to hide their source, he is never referred to by the media as a whistleblower. Journalists prefer to label him as a “rogue MP”, or even as a “feral MP”.
Yep. Jami-Lee Ross is a whistleblower, a guy who found himself on his Road to Damascus. But the media framed him as feral and rogue from the beginning instead. Adams suggests this is because they have so much to lose if the many other indiscretions around parliament were to be exposed. I tend to agree.
Yeah, not sure why we are footing the lions share of the bill for this.
M Bovis is primarily a disease of production and in my burg and surrounds, the thousands of families who depend on that production for their livelihoods will bear the brunt of the economic losses.
I lifted this from the Graham Adams piece Muttonbird linked to and particularly like his choice of wording, so apt, so cutting, so derisive, so true.
In October, DairyNZ chairman Jim van der Poel thanked the public and government for their support in the eradication effort — as he should. His organisation can be grateful no one was impolite enough to ask the rugged, self-reliant individualists of the land why they have not campaigned publicly to be allowed to foot the entire bill themselves.
In fact, who could have guessed there would so many communists down on the farm with their hands out for taxpayers’ money? Especially given that dealing with the crisis has been complicated by many farmers not having complied with the animal tracing scheme, which raises questions of “personal responsibility” dear to conservatives.
Guilty as charged. The charge?…abdication of responsibility.
“There’s been much talk of cracks and crackdowns after the Opal Tower fiasco forced Olympic Park residents of new apartments to spend Christmas in their cars. But what was really cracking from side-to-side was the smooth face of neoliberalism, revealing the ugly lie that good governance can be contracted out.”
Just been reading this morning Oz paper and the Opal Tower saga is slowly starting to be quite ugly for local and state governments. It sort of reminds me of when the “No Mates Party” relaxed the building standards in NZ during 90’s, which resulted the leaky buildings saga.
According to the ABC report this morning they found more cracks, which now is leading to further investigation.
It starts with Cortez talking about climate change. And how to beat it.
When the interviewer interrupts in a querulous rising tone and asks: “This would require, raising taxes?”
Cortez replies, “There is an element, where, yeah, people are going to have to pay their fair share……”
Cue, shock, horror.
But let’s put this in context with the crisis we are in.
In the war against fascism we had to draft capital as well as manpower. To fund this country’s war effort, taxes on the top earners in New Zealand went up to 90%.
And New Zealand was not the only country to do this. Japan’s very top tax rate was set at 90% for several decades after the war, to help pay for reconstruction of their war ravaged country.
Cortez must be of the same opinion as myself, that climate change is an existential threat, greater even than that posed by fascism, requiring a similar expenditure of national treasure, and national effort to beat it.
Uncomfortable as it may be to some people, Cortez is right, we will need to draft capital as well as labour if we are to win the fight against climate change.
The real shock horror, is that some people don’t think the effort is worth it.
Today’s income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people.
For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today.
Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, super-high tax rates on rich people do not appear to hurt the economy or make people lazy: During the 1950s and early 1960s, the top bracket income tax rate was over 90%–and the economy, middle-class, and stock market boomed.
Super-low tax rates on rich people also appear to be correlated with unsustainable sugar highs in the economy–brief, enjoyable booms followed by protracted busts. They also appear to be correlated with very high inequality. (For example, see the 1920s and now).
All this korero over Andre looking to wInd folk up.
I have just plucked my copy of ‘Grasp the nettle’ by Peter Procter off the shelf for a re read. It’s a great read as an introduction to bio-dynamics.
A discipline that is part science, part esoteric.
Rather than frantically letting the GEnie out of the bottle, a generation after our competitors have, we should be pursuing an alternative.
Organic as a minimum, bio-dynamics ideally.
If we don’t know about them we can’t fix or mitigate the effects of them.
Contaminated site numbers have risen slightly in Otago in the last decade.
However, the Otago Regional Council says the number changes constantly as they are discovered and remediated.
As of November 2018, there were 37 contaminated sites covering 72ha in the region.
This is up from 33 sites in 2009, but down from 174 over 484ha when the register was created in 1997.
Council senior environmental officer Simon Beardmore said it was important to note the number of sites at any given time was only a “snapshot”.
“The number of contaminated sites increases as new sites are identified through investigation, and decreases as these sites are remediated or managed to make them safe for human health or the environment.
“This fluctuation can make it difficult to use the number of contaminated sites as an indicator of policy or plan effectiveness across the region.”
He acknowledged there would be “many more” contaminated sites it was not aware of.
The list includes elevated levels of arsenic found at the former Oderings Nursery in Belleknowes and part of the Wyuna Subdivision in Glenorchy, as well as lead contamination on three properties at the top of Selwyn St in Northeast Valley.
Of Otago’s 37 contaminated sites, 20 were identified within the past two years.
300 000 contaminated sites in the UK alone. Approx 1 million per acre to clean them up (not a good job, by any means).
The articles figures are of critical sites – fudged numbers. Dig deeper, most farms in the country approach a threshold for cadmium. We’re in it up to our necks.
Will someone pass on to somebody in America just how stupid their government processes are, when the only people hurting because of the bastards making bad and mad policy, are the workers, that get no say in government there, that don’t get to work because there is no pay for them?
I’ve been thinking about the Nga Puhi Treaty settlement.
They are by far our largest Iwi and incorporate a number of sub-tribes. Just as the tradewinds blew Tasman and Cook into Northland, it is where our first people settled.
In my role as interested bystander, it seems to me that the major stumbling block between a settlement by March or continued negotiations is a sense of harmony, balance and respect between the many hapu that stand under the Nga Puhi flag.
I hope that 2019 will be the year that the many diverse yet connected cultures of the early Far North can embrace and say “Yes.” They could look to their youth and offer a bright 20/20 future
Far right aussies – what are they good for? Absolutely nothing – say it again!
… Tensions reached boiling point at St Kilda beach in Melbourne as hundreds of far-right wing extremists and anti-racism campaigners faced off in a screaming match and minor scuffles broke out.
Scores of police including some with riot shields and on horseback were on hand to keep the groups apart. A police boat kept watch from the water and two helicopters circled overhead.
Blair Cottrell and Neil Erikson, the organisers of the far-right rally, said they had called it in order to “discuss” Melbourne’s youth crime and alleged African gang problems…
… Cottrell and Erikson were convicted and fined by magistrates in 2017 for inciting contempt and ridicule of Muslims by making a video in which they beheaded a dummy with a toy sword in a protest against the building of the Bendigo mosque.
It would be nice to think that with all the shit we are facing as people and as a species that we could put the bullshit behind us and just get on with living. But that is not how standyup apes roll apparently.
Kia ora R&R Housing is out of reach for most Maori and this problem was /is quite pridictable unless we ban foreign buyer everyone except the ultra weathy will all become renters as the billionaire push the price of property out of reach for 99.0% of tangata. If we just lease land to them that will keep the balance as the leases will keep propterty in reach of tangata whenua . Ka kite ano P.S Let the wealthy come and stay but no land sales and no pouring money into political lobbying The captilaist system is all desined around prices incressing if prices don’t incress it colapses quite logical
The people of the world will have to keep heaps of pressure on Bolsonaro so he knows that we don’t think its ok to clear cut tropical forest in the year 2019 as we know now that will be burning the mokopunas future. He need,s the rest of the world to buy Brazil’s exports if he does start slash and burn we should stop investing in Brazil and stop buying there EXPORTS .
Why Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro has environmentalists worried for the Amazon
(CNN)The Amazon rainforest is an ecological wonder. Its waterways and canopy provide a rich ecosystem for a 10th of all the world’s species and help regulate the temperature of the entire planet. But the election of far-right politician Jair Bolsonaro as Brazil’s new president has many worried about the forest’s future.
Most of the Amazon forest is in Brazil and 20% of it has been lost to deforestation since the 1970s, an area bigger than France.
When trees are cut down, the carbon stored inside them is released into the atmosphere. The remaining forest also absorbs less carbon dioxide. That means the health of the Amazon has a direct effect on global warming
The forest is being cut down to make way for activities like cattle ranching, soy bean farming, mining, hydropower dams and new highways.
Deforestation fell dramatically between 2004 and 2012, but in recent years it has been increasing, and the powerful agricultural lobby in the Brazilian congress is pushing for more development of the forest. It endorsed Bolsonaro during his election campaign
This is the type of person we don’t want to push up the cost of living pushing property prices out of reach of Kiwis and lobbeing goverments to make laws to suit this 00.1% m8 . Kiwis will become tennents in there own country WTF.
That report from officials highlighted his connection to ministers, especially Key. Thiel wasn’t just giving a talk at Auckland University that June, he was “presenting at a conference in Auckland in July (along with the Prime Minister)”. Thiel didn’t just donate $1m to the Christchurch earthquake recovery, he made a donation “facilitated by Mark Weldon, chief executive of NZX, on behalf of the Prime Minister”. English confirmed a May 2010 meeting, but said no records of what was discussed existed. Official Information Act requests to the Prime Minister’s Office regarding the meeting with Key were not answered — but the then-Prime Minister told Parliament in 2013 he’d met Thiel on “a few occasions” and described the relationship as “cordial”Thiel came on heavy in the two years ahead of his audacious and ultimately successful bid for citizenship in 2011. He visited the country three times during the period in a whirlwind of lobbying, business deals and public relations.
He met no fewer than four senior members of the Cabinet — including the Prime Minister — to present his case for turbocharging New Zealand’s tech industry, arranged his first business investment (five years after first being granted an investment visa), started buying real estate, and gave his first and, so far, only interview with New Zealand media.
The formal part of his bold quest saw his lawyers Bell Gully travel from Auckland to Wellington in late 2010 to hand-deliver a letter from Thiel to the Minister of Internal Affairs with his truly exceptional request Ka kite ano links belowhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ The 00.1 % DON’T get it the more money put in to poor peoples/countrys pocktets the more money they can make and the better the system is less money spent on health crime fighting a lot of positive from distrubuting OUR WORLDS MONEY EVENLY quite simple maths equation there . The big picture is the 00.1% don’t want the 99.9 % to become impowered as when they get court cheating the will get jail. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJSNUmUh40
Here is one way to solve 2 problems some plastic waste and new roads we have heaps of plastic waste and we need more roads
An Engineer Has Found a Way to Create Plastic Roads
And it will significantly decrease our dependence on fossil fuels.
Karla LantApril 26th 2017
Engineer Toby McCartney wants to use recycled plastic instead of oil to repair some of the world’s 40 million kilometers (24.8 million miles) of road. The idea would solve more than one problem: poor road quality, the continued use of fossil fuels, and the waste plastic epidemic. His Scottish start-up, plastic epidemic. His Scottish start-up, MacRebur, mixes waste plastic into asphalt to create roads that last longer and are less prone to getting potholes.
McCartney’s mix replaces most of the bitumen, a material extracted from oil, that is used as a binding agent in normal roads with plastic pellets. The pellets are made from waste that is destined for landfills, such as the polyethylene that is used in packaging. The plastic waste pellets are then mixed with the usual rocks and a small amount of bitumen at the asphalt plant. The process is exactly the same, no plants don’t need any new equipment.
McCartney has already persuaded two English councils to start using their local waste plastics to build their roads this way. He says these roads are cheaper to make and last longer than conventional roads, and if he’s right, he may be putting us on the road to a cleaner planet.
Kia ora Newshub everyone is massing at Tangaroa and the Awa its quite easy to get into trouble be careful tangata.
Space junk falling back to Papatuanuku is quite a sight that we will be hearing more about as some of the satellites come to there use by dates. Thats a cool new find Australian scientist have found a way to stop skin cancer in its tracks by gene therapy .
Antarctic exploring questions on antarctic has started a great race there by alot of Nations for resorces as well . I seen a enviromentaly freindly person talking about not wanting to give up his Chilain sea basfish and chips that is also antarctic tooth fish that is getting hammered by the worlds fishing nations they need to be protected. The Orange roughy fisheries only lasted 20 years than it collapse.
Thats cool wahine are getting support to get into the jim as its a man domanated seen all the support wahine get is a good thing with the way the world is at the minute.
I see Aquaman is breaking more records cool with so many Pacific Islanders in the Move & the Directed is Chinese they use a lot of CGI compter to make the move to cool. Ka kite ano
A listing of 26 news and opinion articles we found interesting and shared on social media during the past week: Sun, April 28, 2024 thru Sat, May 4, 2024. Story of the week "It’s straight out of Big Tobacco’s playbook. In fact, research by John Cook and his colleagues ...
Yesterday I received come lovely feedback following my Star Wars themed newsletter. A few people mentioned they’d enjoyed reading the personal part at the beginning.I often begin newsletters with some memories, or general thoughts, before commencing the main topic. This hopefully sets the mood and provides some context in which ...
April 30 was going to be the day we’d be calling Mum from London to wish her a happy birthday. Then it became the day we would be going to St. Paul's at Evensong to remember her. The aim of the cathedral builders was to find a way to make their ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Can’t remember the last book by a Kiwi author you read? Think the NZ government should spend less on the arts in favor of helping the homeless? If so, as far as Newsroom is concerned, you probably deserve to be called a cultural ignoramus ...
Eric Crampton writes – Grudges are bad. Better to move on. But it can be fun to keep a couple of really trivial ones, so you’re not tempted to have other ones. For example, because of the rootkit fiasco of 2005, no Sony products in our household. ...
A new report warns an estimated third of the adult population have unmet need for health care.Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāHere’s the six key things I learned about Aotaroa’s political economy this week around housing, climate and poverty:Politics - Three opinion polls confirmed support for PM Christopher Luxon ...
Today is May the fourth. Which was just a regular day when my mother took me to see the newly released Star Wars at the Odeon in Rotorua. The queue was right around the corner. Some years later this day became known as Star Wars Day, the date being a ...
Buzz from the Beehive Much more media attention is being paid to something Winston Peters said about former Australian Foreign Minister Bob Carr than to a speech he delivered to the New Zealand China Council. One word is missing from the speech: AUKUS. But AUKUS loomed large in his considerations ...
Is the economy in another long stagnation? If so, why?This is about the time that the Treasury will be locking up its economic forecasts to be published in the 2024 Budget Economic and Fiscal Update (BEFU) on budget day, 30 May. I am not privy to what they will be ...
The annual list of who's been bribing our politicians is out, and journalists will no doubt be poring over it to find the juiciest and dirtiest bribes. The government's fast-track invite list is likely to be a particular focus, and we already know of one company on the list which ...
In the weeks after the October 7 Hamas attacks on Southern Israel I wrote about the possible 2nd, 3rd and even 4th order effects of the conflict. These included new fronts being opened in the West Bank (with Hamas), Golan … Continue reading → ...
Peter Dunne writes – It is one of the oldest truisms that there is never a good time for MPs to get a pay rise. This week’s announcement of pay raises of around 2.8% backdated to last October could hardly have come at a worse time, with the ...
David Farrar writes – Newshub reports: Newshub can reveal a fresh allegation of intimidation against Green MP Julie-Anne Genter. Genter is subject to a disciplinary process for aggressively waving a book in the face of National Minister Matt Doocey in the House – but it’s not the first time ...
The Treasury has published a paper today on the global productivity slowdown and how it is playing out in New Zealand: The productivity slowdown: implications for the Treasury’s forecasts and projections. The Treasury Paper examines recent trends in productivity and the potential drivers of the slowdown. Productivity for the whole economy ...
Winston Peters’ comments about former Australian foreign minister look set to be an ongoing headache for both him and Luxon. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: The podcast above of the weekly ‘hoon’ webinar for subscribers features co-hosts and , along with regular guests on Gaza and ...
These puppet strings don't pull themselvesYou're thinking thoughts from someone elseHow much time do you think you have?Are you prepared for what comes next?The debating chamber can be a trying place for an opposition MP. What with the person in charge, the speaker, typically being an MP from the governing ...
The land around Lyme Regis, where Meryl Streep once stood, in a hood, on the Cobb, is falling into the sea.MerylThe land around Lyme Regis, around the Cobb that made it rich, has always been falling slowly but surely into the sea. Read more ...
Buzz from the Beehive Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters was bound to win headlines when he set out his thinking about AUKUS in his speech to the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. The headlines became bigger when – during an interview on RNZ’s Morning Report today – he criticised ...
The Post reports on how the government is refusing to release its advice on its corrupt Muldoonist fast-track law, instead using the "soon to be publicly available" refusal ground to hide it until after select committee submissions on the bill have closed. Fast-track Minister Chris Bishop's excuse? “It's not ...
As pressure on it grows, the livestock industry’s approach to the transition to Net Zero is increasingly being compared to that of fossil fuel interests. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / Getty ImagesTL;DR: Here’s the top five news items of note in climate news for Aotearoa-NZ this week, and a discussion above ...
The New Zealand Herald reports – Stats NZ has offered a voluntary redundancy scheme to all of its workers as a way to give staff some control over their “future” amidst widespread job losses in the public sector. In an update to staff this morning, seen by the Herald, Statistics New Zealand ...
On Werewolf/Scoop, I usually do two long form political columns a week. From now on, there will be an extra column each week about music and movies. But first, some late-breaking political events:The rise in unemployment numbers for the March quarter was bigger than expected – and especially sharp ...
David Farrar writes – The Herald reports: TVNZ says it is dealing with about 50 formal complaints over its coverage of the latest 1News-Verian political poll, with some viewers – as well as the Prime Minister and a former senior Labour MP – critical of the tone of the 6pm report. ...
Muriel Newman writes – When Meridian Energy was seeking resource consents for a West Coast hydro dam proposal in 2010, local Maori “strenuously” objected, claiming their mana was inextricably linked to ‘their’ river and could be damaged. After receiving a financial payment from the company, however, the Ngai Tahu ...
Alwyn Poole writes – “An SEP,’ he said, ‘is something that we can’t see, or don’t see, or our brain doesn’t let us see, because we think that it’s somebody else’s problem. That’s what SEP means. Somebody Else’s Problem. The brain just edits it out, it’s like a ...
Our trust in our political institutions is fast eroding, according to a Maxim Institute discussion paper, Shaky Foundations: Why our democracy needs trust. The paper – released today – raises concerns about declining trust in New Zealand’s political institutions and democratic processes, and the role that the overuse of Parliamentary urgency ...
This article was prepared for publication yesterday. More ministerial announcements have been posted on the government’s official website since it was written. We will report on these later today …. Buzz from the BeehiveThere we were, thinking the environment is in trouble, when along came Jones. Shane Jones. ...
New Zealand now has the fourth most depressed construction sector in the world behind China, Qatar and Hong Kong. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 8:46am on Thursday, May 2:The Lead: ...
Hi,I am just going to state something very obvious: American police are fucking crazy.That was a photo gracing the New York Times this morning, showing New York City police “entering Columbia University last night after receiving a request from the school.”Apparently in America, protesting the deaths of tens of thousands ...
Winston Peters’ much anticipated foreign policy speech last night was a work of two halves. Much of it was a standard “boilerplate” Foreign Ministry overview of the state of the world. There was some hardening up of rhetoric with talk of “benign” becoming “malign” and old truths giving way to ...
Graham Adams assesses the fallout of the Cass Review — The press release last Thursday from the UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls didn’t make the mainstream news in New Zealand but it really should have. The startling title of Reem Alsalem’s statement — “Implementation of ‘Cass ...
This open-for-business, under-new-management cliché-pockmarked government of Christopher Luxon is not the thing of beauty he imagines it to be. It is not the powerful expression of the will of the people that he asserts it to be. It is not a soaring eagle, it is a malodorous vulture. This newest poll should make ...
The latest labour market statistics, showing a rise in unemployment. There are now 134,000 unemployed - 14,000 more than when the National government took office. Which is I guess what happens when the Reserve Bank causes a recession in an effort to Keep Wages Low. The previous government saw a ...
Three opinion polls have been released in the last two days, all showing that the new government is failing to hold their popular support. The usual honeymoon experienced during the first year of a first term government is entirely absent. The political mood is still gloomy and discontented, mainly due ...
National's Finance Minister once met a poor person.A scornful interview with National's finance guru who knows next to nothing about economics or people.There might have been something a bit familiar if that was the headline I’d gone with today. It would of course have been in tribute to the article ...
Rob MacCulloch writes – Throughout the pandemic, the new Vice-Chancellor-of-Otago-University-on-$629,000 per annum-Can-you-believe-it-and-Former-Finance-Minister Grant Robertson repeated the mantra over and over that he saved “lives and livelihoods”.As we update how this claim is faring over the course of time, the facts are increasingly speaking differently. NZ ...
Chris Trotter writes – IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in acknowledgement of electoral victory: “We’ll govern for all New Zealanders.” On the face of it, the pledge is a strange one. Why would any political leader govern in ways that advantaged the huge ...
Bryce Edwards writes – The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill ...
TL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political economy at 10:06am on Wednesday, May 1:The Lead: Business confidence fell across the board in April, falling in some areas to levels last seen during the lockdowns because of a collapse in ...
Over the past 36 hours, Christopher Luxon has been dong his best to portray the centre-right’s plummeting poll numbers as a mark of virtue. Allegedly, the negative verdicts are the result of hard economic times, and of a government bravely set out on a perilous rescue mission from which not ...
Auckland Transport have started rolling out new HOP card readers around the network and over the next three months, all of them on buses, at train stations and ferry wharves will be replaced. The change itself is not that remarkable, with the new readers looking similar to what is already ...
Completed reads for April: The Difference Engine, by William Gibson and Bruce Sterling Carnival of Saints, by George Herman The Snow Spider, by Jenny Nimmo Emlyn’s Moon, by Jenny Nimmo The Chestnut Soldier, by Jenny Nimmo Death Comes As the End, by Agatha Christie Lord of the Flies, by ...
On February 14, 2023 we announced our Rebuttal Update Project. This included an ask for feedback about the added "At a glance" section in the updated basic rebuttal versions. This weekly blog post series highlights this new section of one of the updated basic rebuttal versions and serves as a ...
Have a story to share about St Paul’s, but today just picturesPopular novels written at this desk by a young man who managed to bootstrap himself out of father’s imprisonment and his own young life in a workhouse Read more ...
The list of former National Party Ministers being given plum and important roles got longer this week with the appointment of former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett as the chair of Pharmac. The Christopher Luxon-led Government has now made key appointments to Bill English, Simon Bridges, Steven Joyce, Roger Sowry, ...
Newsroom has a story today about National's (fortunately failed) effort to disestablish the newly-created Inspector-General of Defence. The creation of this agency was the key recommendation of the Inquiry into Operation Burnham, and a vital means of restoring credibility and social licence to an agency which had been caught lying ...
Holding On To The Present:The moment a political movement arises that attacks the whole idea of social progress, and announces its intention to wind back the hands of History’s clock, then democracy, along with its unwritten rules, is in mortal danger.IT’S A COMMONPLACE of political speeches, especially those delivered in ...
Stuck In The Middle With You:As Christopher Luxon feels the hot breath of Act’s and NZ First’s extremists on the back of his neck and, as he reckons with the damage their policies are already inflicting upon a country he’s described as “fragile”, is there not some merit in reaching out ...
The unpopular coalition government is currently rushing to repeal section 7AA of the Oranga Tamariki Act. The clause is Oranga Tamariki's Treaty clause, and was inserted after its systematic stealing of Māori children became a public scandal and resulted in physical resistance to further abductions. The clause created clear obligations ...
Buzz from the Beehive The government’s official website – which Point of Order monitors daily – not for the first time has nothing much to say today about political happenings that are grabbing media headlines. It makes no mention of the latest 1News-Verian poll, for example. This shows National down ...
It Takes A Train To Cry:Surely, there is nothing lonelier in all this world than the long wail of a distant steam locomotive on a cold Winter’s night.AS A CHILD, I would lie awake in my grandfather’s house and listen to the traffic. The big wooden house was only a ...
Packing A Punch: The election of the present government, including in its ranks politicians dedicated to reasserting the rights of the legislature in shaping and determining the future of Māori and Pakeha in New Zealand, should have alerted the judiciary – including its anomalous appendage, the Waitangi Tribunal – that its ...
Dead Woman Walking: New Zealand’s media industry had been moving steadily towards disaster for all the years Melissa Lee had been National’s media and communications policy spokesperson, and yet, when the crisis finally broke, on her watch, she had nothing intelligent to offer. Christopher Luxon is a patient man - but he’s not ...
Chris Trotter writes – New Zealand politics is remarkably easy-going: dangerously so, one might even say. With the notable exception of John Key’s flat ruling-out of the NZ First Party in 2008, all parties capable of clearing MMP’s five-percent threshold, or winning one or more electorate seats, tend ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is ...
Luxon will no doubt put a brave face on it, but there is no escaping the pressure this latest poll will put on him and the government. Photo: Lynn Grieveson / The KākāTL;DR: These are the six things that stood out to me in news and commentary on Aotearoa-NZ’s political ...
This is a re-post from The Climate Brink by Andrew Dessler In the wake of any unusual weather event, someone inevitably asks, “Did climate change cause this?” In the most literal sense, that answer is almost always no. Climate change is never the sole cause of hurricanes, heat waves, droughts, or ...
Something odd happened yesterday, and I’d love to know if there’s more to it. If there was something which preempted what happened, or if it was simply a throwaway line in response to a journalist.Yesterday David Seymour was asked at a press conference what the process would be if the ...
Hi,From time to time, I want to bring Webworm into the real world. We did it last year with the Jurassic Park event in New Zealand — which was a lot of fun!And so on Saturday May 11th, in Los Angeles, I am hosting a lil’ Webworm pop-up! I’ve been ...
Education Minister Erica Standford yesterday unveiled a fundamental reform of the way our school pupils are taught. She would not exactly say so, but she is all but dismantling the so-called “inquiry” “feel good” method of teaching, which has ruled in our classrooms since a major review of the New ...
Exactly where are we seriously going with this government and its policies? That is, apart from following what may as well be a Truss-Lite approach on the purported economic “plan“, and Victorian-era regression when it comes to social policy.Oh it’ll work this time of course, we’re basically assured, “the ...
Hey Uncle Dave, When the Poms joined the EEC, I wasn't one of those defeatists who said, Well, that’s it for the dairy job. And I was right, eh? The Chinese can’t get enough of our milk powder and eventually, the Poms came to their senses and backed up the ute ...
Polling shows that Wellington Mayor Tory Whanau has the lowest approval rating of any mayor in the country. Siting at -12 per cent, the proportion of constituents who disapprove of her performance outweighs those who give her the thumbs up. This negative rating is higher than for any other mayor ...
Buzz from the Beehive Pharmac has been given a financial transfusion and a new chair to oversee its spending in the pharmaceutical business. Associate Health Minister David Seymour described the funding for Pharmac as “its largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff”. ...
Bryce Edwards writes – Many criticisms are being made of the Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill, including by this writer. But as with everything in politics, every story has two sides, and both deserve attention. It’s important to understand what the Government is trying to achieve and its ...
TL;DR: Here’s my top 10 ‘pick ‘n’ mix of links to news, analysis and opinion articles as of 10:10am on Monday, April 29:Scoop: The children's ward at Rotorua Hospital will be missing a third of its beds as winter hits because Te Whatu Ora halted an upgrade partway through to ...
span class=”dropcap”>As hideous as David Seymour can be, it is worth keeping in mind occasionally that there are even worse political figures (and regimes) out there. Iran for instance, is about to execute the country’s leading hip hop musician Toomaj Salehi, for writing and performing raps that “corrupt” the nation’s ...
The Government is again adding to New Zealand’s growing unemployment, this time cutting jobs at the agencies responsible for urban development and growing much needed housing stock. ...
With Minister Karen Chhour indicating in the House today that she either doesn’t know or care about the frontline cuts she’s making to Oranga Tamariki, we risk seeing more and more of our children falling through the cracks. ...
The Labour Party is saddened to learn of the death of Sir Robert Martin, a globally renowned disability advocate who led the way for disability rights both in New Zealand and internationally. ...
Labour is calling for the Government to urgently rethink its coalition commitment to restart live animal exports, Labour animal welfare spokesperson Rachel Boyack said. ...
Today’s Financial Stability Report has once again highlighted that poverty and deep inequality are political choices - and this Government is choosing to make them worse. ...
The Green Party is calling on the Government to do more for our households in most need as unemployment rises and the cost of living crisis endures. ...
Unemployment is on the rise and it’s only going to get worse under this Government, Labour finance spokesperson Barbara Edmonds said. Stats NZ figures show the unemployment rate grew to 4.3 percent in the March quarter from 4 percent in the December quarter. “This is the second rise in unemployment ...
The New Zealand Labour Party welcomes the entering into force of the European Union and New Zealand free trade agreement. This agreement opens the door for a huge increase in trade opportunities with a market of 450 million people who are high value discerning consumers of New Zealand goods and ...
The National-led Government continues its fiscal jiggery pokery with its Pharmac announcement today, Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall says. “The government has increased Pharmac funding but conceded it will only make minimal increases in access to medicine”, said Ayesha Verrall “This is far from the bold promises made to fund ...
This afternoon’s interim Waitangi Tribunal report must be taken seriously as it affects our most vulnerable children, Labour children’s spokesperson Willow-Jean Prime. ...
Te Pāti Māori are demanding the New Zealand Government support an international independent investigation into mass graves that have been uncovered at two hospitals on the Gaza strip, following weeks of assault by Israeli troops. Among the 392 bodies that have been recovered, are children and elderly civilians. Many of ...
Our two-tiered system for veterans’ support is out of step with our closest partners, and all parties in Parliament should work together to fix it, Labour veterans’ affairs spokesperson Greg O’Connor said. ...
Stripping two Ministers of their portfolios just six months into the job shows Christopher Luxon’s management style is lacking, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said. ...
Tonight’s court decision to overturn the summons of the Children’s Minister has enabled the Crown to continue making decisions about Māori without evidence, says Te Pāti Māori spokesperson for Children, Mariameno Kapa-Kingi. “The judicial system has this evening told the nation that this government can do whatever they want when ...
It appears Nicola Willis is about to pull the rug out from under the feet of local communities still dealing with the aftermath of last year’s severe weather, and local councils relying on funding to build back from these disasters. ...
The Government is making short-sighted changes to the Resource Management Act (RMA) that will take away environmental protection in favour of short-term profits, Labour’s environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said today. ...
Labour welcomes the release of the report into the North Island weather events and looks forward to working with the Government to ensure that New Zealand is as prepared as it can be for the next natural disaster. ...
The Labour Party has called for the New Zealand Government to recognise Palestine, as a material step towards progressing the two-State solution needed to achieve a lasting peace in the region. ...
Some of our country’s most important work, stopping the sexual exploitation of children and violent extremism could go along with staff on the frontline at ports and airports. ...
The Government’s Fast Track Approvals Bill will give projects such as new coal mines a ‘get out of jail free’ card to wreak havoc on the environment, Labour Leader Chris Hipkins said today. ...
The government's decision to reintroduce Three Strikes is a destructive and ineffective piece of law-making that will only exacerbate an inherently biased and racist criminal justice system, said Te Pāti Māori Justice Spokesperson, Tākuta Ferris, today. During the time Three Strikes was in place in Aotearoa, Māori and Pasifika received ...
Cuts to frontline hospital staff are not only a broken election promise, it shows the reckless tax cuts have well and truly hit the frontline of the health system, says Labour Health spokesperson Ayesha Verrall. ...
The Green Party has joined the call for public submissions on the fast-track legislation to be extended after the Ombudsman forced the Government to release the list of organisations invited to apply just hours before submissions close. ...
New Zealand’s good work at reducing climate emissions for three years in a row will be undone by the National government’s lack of ambition and scrapping programmes that were making a difference, Labour Party climate spokesperson Megan Woods said today. ...
More essential jobs could be on the chopping block, this time Ministry of Education staff on the school lunches team are set to find out whether they're in line to lose their jobs. ...
Te Pāti Māori is disgusted at the confirmation that hundreds are set to lose their jobs at Oranga Tamariki, and the disestablishment of the Treaty Response Unit. “This act of absolute carelessness and out of touch decision making is committing tamariki to state abuse.” Said Te Pāti Māori Oranga Tamariki ...
The Government is trying to bring in a law that will allow Ministers to cut corners and kill off native species, Labour environment spokesperson Rachel Brooking said. ...
The Government has delivered on its election promise to provide a financially sustainable model for Auckland under its Local Water Done Well plan. The plan, which has been unanimously endorsed by Auckland Council’s Governing Body, will see Aucklanders avoid the previously projected 25.8 per cent water rates increases while retaining ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters discussed the need for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and enhanced cooperation in the Pacific with German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock during her first official visit to New Zealand today. "New Zealand and Germany enjoy shared interests and values, including the rule of law, democracy, respect for the international system ...
The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop today released his decision on four recommendations referred to him by the Western Bay of Plenty District Council, opening the door to housing growth in the area. The Council’s Plan Change 92 allows more homes to be built in existing and new ...
Thank you, John McKinnon and the New Zealand China Council for the invitation to speak to you today. Thank you too, all members of the China Council. Your effort has played an essential role in helping to build, shape, and grow a balanced and resilient relationship between our two ...
The Government is modernising insurance law to better protect Kiwis and provide security in the event of a disaster, Commerce and Consumer Affairs Minister Andrew Bayly announced today. “These reforms are long overdue. New Zealand’s insurance law is complicated and dated, some of which is more than 100 years old. ...
The coalition Government is refreshing its approach to supporting pay equity claims as time-limited funding for the Pay Equity Taskforce comes to an end, Public Service Minister Nicola Willis says. “Three years ago, the then-government introduced changes to the Equal Pay Act to support pay equity bargaining. The changes were ...
Structured literacy will change the way New Zealand children learn to read - improving achievement and setting students up for success, Education Minister Erica Stanford says. “Being able to read and write is a fundamental life skill that too many young people are missing out on. Recent data shows that ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay says Canada’s refusal to comply in full with a CPTPP trade dispute ruling in our favour over dairy trade is cynical and New Zealand has no intention of backing down. Mr McClay said he has asked for urgent legal advice in respect of our ‘next move’ ...
The rights of our children and young people will be enhanced by changes the coalition Government will make to strengthen oversight of the Oranga Tamariki system, including restoring a single Children’s Commissioner. “The Government is committed to delivering better public services that care for our most at-risk young people and ...
The Government is making it easier for minor changes to be made to a building consent so building a home is easier and more affordable, Building and Construction Minister Chris Penk says. “The coalition Government is focused on making it easier and cheaper to build homes so we can ...
New Zealand lost a true legend when internationally renowned disability advocate Sir Robert Martin (KNZM) passed away at his home in Whanganui last night, Disabilities Issues Minister Louise Upston says. “Our Government’s thoughts are with his wife Lynda, family and community, those he has worked with, the disability community in ...
Good evening – Before discussing the challenges and opportunities facing New Zealand’s foreign policy, we’d like to first acknowledge the New Zealand Institute of International Affairs. You have contributed to debates about New Zealand foreign policy over a long period of time, and we thank you for hosting us. ...
From today, passengers travelling internationally from Auckland Airport will be able to keep laptops and liquids in their carry-on bags for security screening thanks to new technology, Transport Minister Simeon Brown says. “Creating a more efficient and seamless travel experience is important for holidaymakers and businesses, enabling faster movement through ...
People with an interest in the health of Northland’s marine ecosystems are invited to a public meeting to discuss how to deal with kina barrens, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. Mr Jones will lead the discussion, which will take place on Friday, 10 May, at Awanui Hotel in ...
Kiwi exporters are $100 million better off today with the NZ EU FTA entering into force says Trade Minister Todd McClay. “This is all part of our plan to grow the economy. New Zealand's prosperity depends on international trade, making up 60 per cent of the country’s total economic activity. ...
There are heartening signs that the extractive sector is once again becoming an attractive prospect for investors and a source of economic prosperity for New Zealand, Resources Minister Shane Jones says. “The beginnings of a resurgence in extractive industries are apparent in media reports of the sector in the past ...
The return of the historic Ō-Rākau battle site to the descendants of those who fought there moved one step closer today with the first reading of Te Pire mō Ō-Rākau, Te Pae o Maumahara / The Ō-Rākau Remembrance Bill. The Bill will entrust the 9.7-hectare battle site, five kilometres west ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has announced 25 new high-speed EV charging hubs along key routes between major urban centres and outlined the Government’s plan to supercharge New Zealand’s EV infrastructure. The hubs will each have several chargers and be capable of charging at least four – and up to 10 ...
The coalition Government will not proceed with the previous Government’s plans to regulate residential property managers, Housing Minister Chris Bishop says. “I have written to the Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee to inform him that the Government does not intend to support the Residential Property Managers Bill ...
The Government has announced an independent review into the disability support system funded by the Ministry of Disabled People – Whaikaha. Disability Issues Minister Louise Upston says the review will look at what can be done to strengthen the long-term sustainability of Disability Support Services to provide disabled people and ...
Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has attended the Universal Periodic Review in Geneva and outlined the Government’s plan to restore law and order. “Speaking to the United Nations Human Rights Council provided us with an opportunity to present New Zealand’s human rights progress, priorities, and challenges, while responding to issues and ...
The Government and Rotorua Lakes Council are committed to working closely together to end the use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua. Associate Minister of Housing (Social Housing) Tama Potaka says the Government remains committed to ending the long-term use of contracted emergency housing motels in Rotorua by the ...
Trade Minister Todd McClay heads overseas today for high-level trade talks in the Gulf region, and a key OECD meeting in Paris. Mr McClay will travel to Riyadh to meet with counterparts from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC). “New Zealand’s goods and services exports to the Gulf region ...
Education Minister Erica Stanford has outlined six education priorities to deliver a world-leading education system that sets Kiwi kids up for future success. “I’m putting ambition, achievement and outcomes at the heart of our education system. I want every child to be inspired and engaged in their learning so they ...
The new NZ Transport Agency (NZTA) App is a secure ‘one stop shop’ to provide the services drivers need, Transport Minister Simeon Brown and Digitising Government Minister Judith Collins say. “The NZTA App will enable an easier way for Kiwis to pay for Vehicle Registration and Road User Charges (RUC). ...
Whānau with tamariki growing up in emergency housing motels will be prioritised for social housing starting this week, says Associate Housing Minister Tama Potaka. “Giving these whānau a better opportunity to build healthy stable lives for themselves and future generations is an essential part of the Government’s goal of reducing ...
Racing Minister Winston Peters has paid tribute to an icon of the industry with the recent passing of Dave O’Sullivan (OBE). “Our sympathies are with the O’Sullivan family with the sad news of Dave O’Sullivan’s recent passing,” Mr Peters says. “His contribution to racing, initially as a jockey and then ...
Assalaamu alaikum, greetings to you all. Eid Mubarak, everyone! I want to extend my warmest wishes to you and everyone celebrating this joyous occasion. It is a pleasure to be here. I have enjoyed Eid celebrations at Parliament before, but this is my first time joining you as the Minister ...
Associate Health Minister David Seymour has announced Pharmac’s largest ever budget of $6.294 billion over four years, fixing a $1.774 billion fiscal cliff. “Access to medicines is a crucial part of many Kiwis’ lives. We’ve committed to a budget allocation of $1.774 billion over four years so Kiwis are ...
Hon Paula Bennett has been appointed as member and chair of the Pharmac board, Associate Health Minister David Seymour announced today. "Pharmac is a critical part of New Zealand's health system and plays a significant role in ensuring that Kiwis have the best possible access to medicines,” says Mr Seymour. ...
Hundreds of New Zealand families affected by Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (FASD) will benefit from a new Government focus on prevention and treatment, says Health Minister Dr Shane Reti. “We know FASD is a leading cause of preventable intellectual and neurodevelopmental disability in New Zealand,” Dr Reti says. “Every day, ...
Regional Development Minister Shane Jones today attended the official opening of Kaikohe’s new $14.7 million sports complex. “The completion of the Kaikohe Multi Sports Complex is a fantastic achievement for the Far North,” Mr Jones says. “This facility not only fulfils a long-held dream for local athletes, but also creates ...
Foreign Minister Winston Peters’ engagements in Türkiye this week underlined the importance of diplomacy to meet growing global challenges. “Returning to the Gallipoli Peninsula to represent New Zealand at Anzac commemorations was a sombre reminder of the critical importance of diplomacy for de-escalating conflicts and easing tensions,” Mr Peters ...
Ambassador Millar, Burgemeester, Vandepitte, Excellencies, military representatives, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen – good morning and welcome to this sacred Anzac Day dawn service. It is an honour to be here on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand at Buttes New British Cemetery, Polygon Wood – a deeply ...
Distinguished guests - It is an honour to return once again to this site which, as the resting place for so many of our war-dead, has become a sacred place for generations of New Zealanders. Our presence here and at the other special spaces of Gallipoli is made ...
Mai ia tawhiti pamamao, te moana nui a Kiwa, kua tae whakaiti mai matou, ki to koutou papa whenua. No koutou te tapuwae, no matou te tapuwae, kua honoa pumautia. Ko nga toa kua hinga nei, o te Waipounamu, o te Ika a Maui, he okioki tahi me o ...
Paul Goldsmith will take on responsibility for the Media and Communications portfolio, while Louise Upston will pick up the Disability Issues portfolio, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon announced today. “Our Government is relentlessly focused on getting New Zealand back on track. As issues change in prominence, I plan to adjust Ministerial ...
Recreational catch limits will be reduced in areas of Fiordland and the Chatham Islands to help keep those fisheries healthy and sustainable, Oceans and Fisheries Minister Shane Jones says. The lower recreational daily catch limits for a range of finfish and shellfish species caught in the Fiordland Marine Area and ...
Energy Minister Simeon Brown has welcomed an important milestone in New Zealand’s hydrogen future, with the opening of the country’s first network of hydrogen refuelling stations in Wiri. “I want to congratulate the team at Hiringa Energy and its partners K one W one (K1W1), Mitsui & Co New Zealand ...
The coalition Government is delivering on its commitment to improve resource management laws and give greater certainty to consent applicants, with a Bill to amend the Resource Management Act (RMA) expected to be introduced to Parliament next month. RMA Reform Minister Chris Bishop has today outlined the first RMA Amendment ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra A new Commonwealth Prac Payment will provide students with $319.50 a week when they are on clinical and professional placements. The payment will be means tested and start from July 1 next year, which ...
Asia Pacific Report About 500 people honoured Palestinian journalists in the heart of the New Zealand city of Auckland today for their brave coverage of Israel’s War on Gaza, now in its seventh month with almost 35,000 people killed, mostly women and children. Marking the annual May 3 World Press ...
The Government Communications Security Bureau denies hosting a foreign spying capability flagged by the watchdog, differentiating it from the system recently criticised. ...
RNZ News A group of academic staff at New Zealand’s largest university have expressed concern at the administration’s move to block a protest encampment that was planned to take place on campus calling for support for the rights of Palestinians. This week, the University of Auckland warned that while it ...
Genterwocky After a hard days marching, Sir Doocey calls in at the Village Tavern For a pint of ale and a pork pie. The grim villagers stare at him. “Do not be travelling on the forest road,” warns a crusty old beak. “And why is that, antique peasant?” Grins Sir ...
Political conferences after a party returns to power are usually a chance for some healthy, even unhealthy backslapping. Yet National Party president Sylvia Wood’s address to its mainland representatives on Saturday hardly contained the unalloyed delight that one might have expected following National’s escape from the wilderness of opposition. Yes, ...
Comment: Almost half the world is voting in national elections this year and artificial intelligence is the elephant in the room. There are genuine fears AI-generated or AI-edited deepfakes will potentially manipulate election outcomes not just in the US and UK, but critically in countries such as India. For that ...
Ahead of the reality franchise’s return to New Zealand, allow us to introduce the eight brides and grooms. Chuck on a veil and tie back your man bun, because it’s time to say “I do” to a new season of Married at First Sight NZ. The reality TV “social experiment” ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Andrew Norton, Professor in the Practice of Higher Education Policy, Australian National University Every year on June 1, student debt in Australia is indexed to inflation. In 2023, high inflation pushed the indexation rate to 7.1%, the highest since 1990. This ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Michelle Grattan, Professorial Fellow, University of Canberra Changes in the May 14 budget will cut the student debt of more than three million people, wiping more than $3 billion from what people owe. The government will cap the HELP indexation rate ...
Asia Pacific Report The prosecutor’s office at the International Criminal Court (ICC) has appealed for an end to what it calls intimidation of its staff, saying such threats could constitute an offence against the “administration of justice” by the world’s permanent war crimes court. The Hague-based office of ICC Prosecutor ...
By Patrick Decloitre, RNZ Pacific correspondent French Pacific desk A women’s union in New Caledonia has staged a sit-in protest this week to support senior Kanak indigenous journalist Thérèse Waia, who works for public broadcaster Nouvelle-Calédonie la Première, after a smear attack by critics. The peaceful demonstration was held on ...
New Zealand Food Safety is monitoring overseas recalls of Indian packaged spice products manufactured by MDH and Everest due to concerns over a cancer-causing pesticide. ...
By Stephen Wright and Stefan Armbruster of BenarNews Fiji’s ranking in a global press freedom index has jumped into the top tier of countries with free or mostly free media after its government last year repealed a draconian law that threatened journalists with prison for doing their jobs. Fiji’s improvement ...
We might be in Invercargill but all anyone can talk about is Gore. Specifically, Salford Street. That’s where three-year-old Lachlan Jones lived, south of the centre of town, between the A&P Showgrounds and the Mataura River. Roughly 1.2 km away from the single level home he lived in with his ...
MONDAY I lined up the latest round of civil servants from city hall against the wall, and signalled for the firing squad to drop their rifles. I stepped up onto a wooden crate to look at the office workers in the eye. But that didn’t feel right, so I found ...
Keen hiker and second-year MSc student Liam Hewson wears two hats when he’s in the great outdoors. “The scientist in me appreciates nature and goes, ‘Oh, there’s that thing and there’s another thing,’ but then the tramper and the outdoorsy person in me thinks, ‘Cool bush.’” Born and bred in ...
After a long and illustrious career as a goal kicker, Dan Carter’s favourite way to unwind is… kicking goals. Why can’t he get enough of it? And what it’s like to watch him do it for an hour straight? A semicircle of people wielding cameras and phones has formed in ...
Dame Susan Devoy takes us through her life in television, including late night ER debriefs, her proudest CTI moment and the show she watches in secret. Quite aside from her four world champion squash titles, Dame Susan Devoy will likely go down in history as one of the best Celebrity ...
Hera Lindsay Bird reveals the best places in Ōtepoti to score more for your apocalypse-prep book hoard.Sometimes I get the feeling I’ve been killed in a car crash, and this second half of my life is just the brain unspooling itself, like one of those episodes of a hospital ...
ThreeNow’s new murder mystery series takes us on a dark, damp journey into the Australian wilderness.This is an excerpt from our weekly pop culture newsletter Rec Room. Sign up here. High Country is ThreeNow’s new Australian eight-part crime drama, set in a remote part of the Victorian highlands. It tells ...
Introducing a new way to read The Spinoff every weekend. After nearly 10 years of being an online magazine, we’re finally embracing the weekend liftout. Despite our best efforts to convince you otherwise, writers and editors at The Spinoff don’t work weekend. It is through the sheer power of technology ...
Tip one: let yourself be nurtured by this big old man. Tip two: don’t ask him to adopt you. So, you’ve arrived at your first session with a new therapist. He tells you to make yourself comfortable and you opt for the tweed armchair, hoping it makes you look like ...
I didn’t know books could open you back up; that there were books that stayed with you, where reading was like a chemical event. I knew nothing.The Sunday Essay is made possible thanks to the support of Creative New Zealand.Not too long ago, I was listening to the American ...
Former Olympic swimmer James Magnussen has already started training for the Enhanced games, though says he won’t start taking performance enhancing substances until about nine months out from the competition. The Australian world champion was the first athlete to be announced by Enhanced, but he says the organisation has had ...
Everyone thinks he’s dead. Every day they expect his body to be washed up along the coast. Most likely up Karitane way, the way the tide’s running. But nobody’ll be too surprised if his body’s never found. Even in death he wouldn’t have wished for such attention. He would have ...
Council members voted 21 to 4 in favour of Ahluwalia returning to the Laucala campus following a much-awaited meeting in Vanuatu this week. It comes as USP and its two unions — the Association of the University of the South Pacific Staff (AUSPS) and the Administration and Support Staff Union ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Nicola Henry, Professor & Australian Research Council Future Fellow, Social and Global Studies Centre, RMIT University Shutterstock Following an emergency meeting of the National Cabinet this week, Prime Minister Anthony Albanese has announced a raft of measures to tackle the problem ...
Analysis - A poll showing the opposition is more popular than the government raises questions, politicians go through their 'trial by pay rise' and a Green MP loses her cool in the debating chamber. ...
The entire stretch of Tokomaru Bay on the East Coast will be subject to a joint customary marine title for two hapū, and extending up to four miles out to sea. A High Court judge has found the two groups, who during the case settled a dispute over boundaries for ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Hall, Lecturer, Media & Cultural Studies, Edith Cowan University A longstanding feud between TikTok and Universal Music Group seems to have finally reached an end, with both parties signing a deal that will see Universal-backed music returned to the social media ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Siobhan O’Dean, Postdoctoral Research Associate, The Matilda Centre for Research in Mental Health and Substance Use, University of Sydney After several highly publicised alleged murders of women in Australia, the Albanese government this week pledged more than A$925 million over five years ...
Political parties have now fully disclosed the donations they received last year - with National getting more than double the cash of any other party. ...
A Pacific regionalism expert has called out New Zealand's Foreign Affairs Minister Winston Peters for withholding information from the public on AUKUS military pact. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Richard de Grijs, Professor of Astrophysics, Macquarie University Bruno Scramgnon/Pexels All systems are “go” for tonight’s launch of China’s next step in a carefully planned lunar exploration program. Placed on top of a powerful Long March 5 rocket, the Chang’e 6 ...
National returned a massive donation the day after a Newsroom story linked the donors to a property being investigated for operating unlawfully as a migrant workers’ hostel. The party’s 2023 donation filings, released on Friday, show it returned a $200,000 donation from Buen Holdings on August 23. That was the ...
Pacific Media Watch New Zealand has slumped to an unprecedented 19th place in the annual Reporters Without Borders World Press Freedom Index survey released today on World Press Freedom Day — May 3. This was a drop of six places from 13th last year when it slipped out of its ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Joshua Black, Political Historian and Administrator Officer, Australian Historical Association, Australian National University Australia has had its fair share of public record-keeping controversies in recent years. Some have been mere farce, as in the case of two formerly government-owned filing cabinets (containing ...
Heavenly Culture, World Peace, Restoration of Light (HWPL), a United Nations-affiliated organization dedicated to fostering peace through civilian-led initiatives, has issued a statement in response to the escalating conflict between Israel and Iran. ...
A poem by Tessa Keenan, from AUP New Poets 10. Mātou These days we are a photograph; one of a farm strewn with cows that used to be bright harakeke or swamp. The kids point at it and say the sun sits behind a smudge (left by someone at Christmas); ...
The only published and available best-selling indie book chart in New Zealand is the top 10 sales list recorded every week at Unity Books’ stores in High St, Auckland, and Willis St, Wellington.AUCKLAND1 Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan (Faber & Faber, $25)The masterful Irish writer ...
Marriage and civil union statistics record the number of marriages and civil unions registered in New Zealand each year, and divorce statistics record the number of divorces granted in New Zealand each year. Key facts Marriages and civil unions In ...
Marriage and civil union statistics record the number of marriages and civil unions registered in New Zealand each year, and divorce statistics record the number of divorces granted in New Zealand each year. ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Lennon Y.C. Chang, Associate Professor of Cyber Risk and Policy, Deakin University Taiwan stands out as a beacon of democracy, innovation and resilience in an increasingly autocratic region. But this is under growing threat. In recent years, China has used a variety ...
In this excerpt from her new memoir, Dame Susan Devoy remembers her turn as star contestant on the 2022 season of Celebrity Treasure Island. The most anxious time of every day was pre-elimination, when you knew this could be your final day on the show. I felt such contradictory emotions, ...
A week that began in triumph ended in an all-too-familiar disaster for the Green Party. Duncan Greive asks if there’s something in the mission that breaks its best and brightest. A long, strange week for the Green party began with a fantastic poll result. On one level this is hardly ...
By Lydia Lewis, RNZ Pacific journalist Vanuatu’s former prime minister and opposition MP Ishmael Kalsakau has stepped down — just two days after he confirmed he was the rightful opposition leader. Kalsakau, MP for Port Vila, confirmed to ABC’s Pacific Beat, and the Vanuatu Daily Post on Thursday that he ...
What’s to blame for the coalition’s choppy start? Six months in, and the mojo meter is in the doldrums. A new poll would put National out of power and sees its leader, Chris Luxon, sliding in popularity. How much is it about policy, how much coalition management and a perception ...
The striking report goes far beyond the proposed repeal of the Oranga Tamariki Act’s Treaty of Waitangi provision, and its impact should be felt far beyond the unique circumstances of the claim it addresses. Earlier this week, the Waitangi Tribunal released an interim report on the government’s proposed repeal of ...
The world has been experiencing a productivity slowdown, from which New Zealand has not been exempt. COVID-19 temporarily boosted labour productivity, but more recently, productivity has retreated. The overall trend since 2007 has been one of slow productivity ...
What’s more wasteful than spending $315k on syrup and machine maintenance? Trying to drum up a controversy about it.Cast your mind back to the pre-pandemic idylls of 2019. A “rat” was a disgusting rodent and not a self-administered plague test; the sixth Labour government was in power; and the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Kate Fitz-Gibbon, Professor of Social Sciences, Faculty of Arts, Monash University, Monash University Ken stocker/Shutterstock In the wake of numerous killings of women allegedly by men’s violence in 2024, thousands of Australians have joined rallies across the country to demand action ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Henry Cutler, Professor and Director, Macquarie University Centre for the Health Economy, Macquarie University Oleg Ivanov IL/Shutterstock Waiting times for public hospital elective surgery have been in the news ahead of this year’s federal budget. That’s the type of non-emergency surgery ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Konstantine Panegyres, McKenzie Postdoctoral Fellow, Historical and Philosophical Studies, The University of Melbourne Amna Artist/Shutterstock One of the earliest descriptions of someone with cancer comes from the fourth century BC. Satyrus, tyrant of the city of Heracleia on the Black Sea, ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By John Rose, Professor of Sustainable Future Transport, University of Sydney LanaElcova/Shutterstock Electric vehicles are often seen as the panacea to cutting emissions – and air pollution – from transport. Is this view correct? Yes – but only once uptake accelerates. Despite the ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Giselle Natassia Woodley, Researcher and Phd Candidate, Edith Cowan University There is widespread agreement Australia needs to do better when it comes to gender-based violence. Anger and frustration at the numbers of women being killed saw national rallies over the weekend and ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By James Graham, Lecturer in Economics, University of Sydney Mark and Anna Photography/Shutterstock As home ownership moves further out of reach for many Australians, “rentvesting” is being touted as a lifesaver. Rentvesting is the practice of renting one property to live ...
Source: The Conversation (Au and NZ) – By Sukhmani Khorana, Associate Professor, Faculty of Arts, Design and Architecture, UNSW Sydney Netflix The new season of Heartbreak High is garnering mixed reviews. Critics are writing about the racy story lines, comparing it to other coming-of-age series about teenage relationships and ...
Bob Carr intends to launch legal action against Winston Peters and Julie Anne Genter is facing a second allegation of bullying. Both sucked the air out of an announcement on education, writes Anna Rawhiti-Connell in this excerpt from The Bulletin, The Spinoff’s morning news round-up. To receive The Bulletin in ...
I want to pick up on a curious comment made by mickysavage where he described me:
I accept that is what ms genuinely thinks, but I have no idea what he bases it on (possibly in part on the many misrepresentations made here) and in some respects at least i think it is a way off the mark. I doubt that many if any here have much idea where I sit politically. So I will state my political case here.
Last century I tended to vote Labour (never National). Early this century I voted Green, and Labour in 2005 to help help Don Brash out of power.
I approached Labour in 2009 thinking I could contribute to them rebuilding, but didn’t follow through because they (primarily Clare Curran) gave me the impression they wanted workers but not thinkers or contributers.
I have never considered being involved with National or NZ First. I have considered Greens but while I’m in line generally with their environmental ideals am not in favour of their radical social goals – in particular because they are unproven ideals.
I don’t think “the centre provides the best result in a goldilocks sort of way”. I considered myself centre-ish for a while, but my preferences are wider than that, depending on the issue.
I was never a fan of Colin Craig’s Conservative Party, and what I’ve seen of the New Conservative Party leaves me cold, they are not my thing at all.
My political preferences are similar to the more liberal National MPs like Nikki Kay and Chris Bishop and also similar to moderate Labour MPs – certainly not in line with conservative National MPs (including Simon Bridges). I agree in part with others more leftward, like James Shaw, Julie Anne Genter.
I’m sure I have some conservative-ish views, but on social issues I think I am usually not conservative aligned at all.
Homosexual law reform – strongly in favour, the laws up until the 1980s were terrible.
Smacking children – strongly against, except in very mild cases (tap/smack and not whack/smack). I voted against the smacking referendum. I am strongly anti-violence in the home.
Marriage equality – I supported the civil union law reform as adequate, but shifted to supporting full marriage equality after talking with people at a gay group meeting.
Marriage generally – I guess I’m conservative on this to an extent, I value marriage as a way of showing commitment to a partner. However I ‘lived together’ for several years prior to both my marriages – this is commonly accepted practice this century, but was quite a bit more radical first time round in the 1970s and certainly not conservative.
Abortion – I strongly support moves to make our abortion laws line up with our abortion practice, scrapping the ridiculous requirements women have to comply with now, making it women’s choice up until about half term.
Euthanasia – I support euthanasia in principle, and i think i will probably vote for if it goes to a referendum, depending on what we actually get to vote on.
Cannabis law reform – I have strongly support cannabis law reform and have campaigned politically on this. The current drug laws are not working, causing more problems than they solve. I want the legal, medical and social mess cleaned up. I have never used cannabis or any other recreational drug except alcohol.
MMP – I have supported MMP as a better than most of the rest option, albeit flawed. I oppose FPP. I strongly support lowering the MMP threshold, preferably to 2-3% if not scrapped entirely. The priority should be put on making as many votes count as possible. The 5% threshold is a large party imposition to protect their positions by excluding small parties, I think this is appalling and undemocratic.
Tax and benefit reform – I support a major rethink of our tax and benefit system. I’m disappointed by the timidity shown by the current Government with their hobbled tax working group – with the economy currently strong it would be a good time to change things more radically. I’m interested in some sort of universal basic income. I have some reservations, but in a total reform package it should be considered in the mix.
That’s just a few issues, but ones where I think I am far from conservative.
I’m interested to hear why Greg thinks that I was or am ‘tribal conservative’. I really doubt he has any real idea, my views have often been misrepresented here at The Standard – since I started commenting here about ten years ago thinking it might be the political blog most in line with my thinking – i still laugh about that.
I am interested to here a response from ms on where his perception comes from.
The leftist splitter syndrome is interesting, eh? Better to develop common ground, even though it is human nature to differ. I mentally file you with MS as typical Labour folk: I agree with their common-sense views, and disagree when they fail to grasp subtleties (just as often).
Thus I agree with most of your list of positions. Been Green half a century, so from the radical sixties wave I’ve trended towards pragmatism and away from idealism, and consequently am an untypical GP member. I still think marriage is more likely to damage people than help them, though. Neither I, nor the two women I married, ever believed in it. We did so to reduce the trauma of other family members.
I ended up with the same position as Key on the anti-smacking law. Worth a try as a social-engineering experiment. A joke, which history has validated, to my surprise. I recall smacking my daughter a couple of times during the toddler period, when she lost the plot. It worked. You can’t let kids do dangerous stuff just because they want to. Boundaries must be enforced. But yes, I give Sue Bradford credit for that law.
It was me who put cannabis law reform into the Greens justice policy draft when I became convenor of that working group in ’91. I also “strongly support lowering the MMP threshold, preferably to 2-3% if not scrapped entirely.” I also agree with you re more radical reform of taxes & benefits. Not just UBI either. Financial transactions taxation is essential to disincentivise capitalism.
As regards goldilocks centrism, obviously it is the crucial factor which is making the coalition successful. Dunno why you seek to avoid the tag, and I don’t share your assumption that MS uses it as a perjorative. If he is, he may be in denial of the fact. Reference to the govt as Labour-led could serve as evidence of that. Pretence doesn’t really work very well in politics. If they were ever to start leading the coalition, we could then rate them on the quality of their leadership. This year??
Well done Pete. You do surprise me. My perception is based on what I anticipated your beliefs to the trade union movement was.
I guess it is easy to misinterpret being critical with being negative.
Welcome to the collective comrade!
“Welcome to the collective comrade!”
Strikes me Pete sees himself as more of an individual (in a ‘we are all individuals’ kind of a way).
There is a card in the supermarkets with a row of kids dressed in hero suits with one slightly different and caption saying something like ‘you are a special individual just like everybody else’.
You support privatisation of education via charters, the competitive model of Tomorrow’s School’s, the Americanization of healthcare, the privatisation of utilities and infrastructure and the liberalization of labour laws and reduction of trade unions roles.
Pretty right wing to me. Supporting the right of two blokes to marry each other is pretty irrelevant IMO.
agreed millsy. its abit like I used to vote labour but I changed my mind this election. yeah right.
This may come as a surprise to you.
I have no idea why as it is incredibly obvious given govts changing, but there are an awful lot of voters that agree with somethings from some parties and some from others and when the election comes round, they vote for which has the most at the time.
You may have heard of the name
Swing voters
And sometimes a party someone has always voted for can change so much that this happens reluctantly
Millsy – you’re are making stuff up there, applying incorrect policy positions to me that I disagree with.
Of course I do support some policies that could be labelled ‘right wing’, as everyone probably does if they are honest. But as you have asserted here you are wrong.
Those are not black or white policies. I support unions for those who want to belong to them, and I believe they have had a major positive impact on work conditions over the last century, but I also think belonging to one shouldn’t be compulsory. Voluntary union membership does not appear to have been much of a problem.
“the Americanization of healthcare” – apart from that being vague I think it is a ridiculous assertion. I think that the US health system is awful for many people – one of my brothers died recently in the US, and it appears that is because he couldn’t afford adequate health care.
“the competitive model of Tomorrow’s School’s” – I have no idea where you get this from.
“privatisation of education via charters” – small scale privatisation of someeducation seems fine to me, when it meets needs not being catered for well by state education. But I don’t support ‘the privatisation of education’, as a blanket claim that’s nonsense.
“the privatisation of utilities and infrastructure” – this is far too complex to deal with briefly here.
“I started commenting here about ten years ago thinking it might be the political blog most in line with my thinking – i still laugh about that.”
So, Pete, if this is not the political blog most in line with your thinking”, why have you bothered to, a: visit & b. outline all of your positions?
If the unsuitability this blog to you and your unsuitability to it, makes you laugh, why do you return, again and again?
Narcissistic Pete George a legend in your own mind. Thinking you are more relevant than anyone else.
Perpetually Goaded as Wayne says explaining is loosing
Cortez humiliation fail
Far Right attempt to humiliate Senator Cortez flops
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/03/viral-video-shows-college-era-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-dancing/2477646002/.
It raises the question of why the Far Right single out Senator Cortez for the ire.
What is it about her that they hate and fear so much?
Her gender, which challenges their love of patriarchy?
Her Hispanic heritage, which challenges their racist stereotypes?
Her activist roots which challenges their love of authoritarian rule?
Her basic decency, and optimistic world outlook which challenges their dyspeptic jaundiced view of the world?
All of the above?
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is a congresswoman in the House of Representatives, representing a New York City district. One of 435 representatives in the House.
I personally think the Republicans are stupid to play up everything she she says and does. She must be very happy to get such attention, since it has given her a huge national profile. Just the sort of thing you need if you want to become a Senator, either in New York or a neighbouring state..
What you are not understanding here Wayne, is the qualitative nature of leadership.
Cortez maybe a only one of 435, but her presence among them and the message she brings, is a direct challenge to business as usual, and one which can’t be openly derided, or ignored.
Which is why the GOP has had to resort to attacking Cortez using underhand methods.
I always think of the example of Winston Churchill.
After breaking with the Liberal Party, Churchill was elected back into parlirament as an independent ‘Constitutionalist’.
From a minority position on the back benches, Churchill led a blistering non-stop attack on the dangers of fascism, at a time when the British establishment were almost all, pro-nazi.
When the crisis hit, the leaders of the establishment parties were found lacking, and without answers, leading to Churchill’s surprise elevation to the Premiership.
This is called leadership, and it is often not a quantitative factor. Many times it springs from a minority position. Rod Donald’s campaign for MMP is another example; From a minority position, Rod Donald changed the whole political landscape of this country.
This is what I mean, when I say, that leadership is a qualitative factor and not a quantitative one. It doesn’t matter how many seats you have in the house, it doesn’t matter if you are a voice of only one. If you are sure of your message and your message has resonance in society you are a force to be reckoned with.
This is what you can’t see Wayne.
And is why the Republicans can’t ignore Cortez, as you suggest they should.
I get that she is different to many/most congress members. And I am sure she will shine. Though as a self declared socialist that will limit her nationwide support in a country like America. But I am also sure she will modify her positions, just as Jacinda has done in the ten years she has been in Parliament.
I still think it is foolish for the Republicans to be obsessed with her.
You would be quite surprised about the extensive influence of socialism in the USA, Wayne.
Watch this space
Yes, I would be.
After all, NZ is allegedly more partial to socialism than many countries, but I don’t see the current government implementing much of it. The PM used a lot of socialist rhetoric in her early years in Parliament, but in her role as PM I don’t see any real evidence that she is about to implement the socialist nirvana.
It seems you are not as intelligent as you think you are, despite your cultured credentials.
The USA has extensive public ownership and control of infrastructure, and a state sector more comprehensive than ours would ever hope to be. All the airports, seaports, ferrys and terminals, as well as most electricity and water reticulation in NY City for example, are owned and controlled by public entities. With a public service mandate (IE not commercial SOE’s). As well as that, you have mutuals, co-ops, and union run pension funds with various levels of involvement in the economy.
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is essentially a New Deal Democrat, not so long ago, her political positions would have been pretty centrist. The universal health Care system that she proposes would still use privately run health services, but have a government service pay for it. ACT would probably endorse it here.
A good response. Residual socialist infrastructure is usually not recognised as such, and that’s a social deficit. Gnosis around mutual-benefit-generating social design would spread if folks orientated themselves more towards the social transmission of wisdom. On the basis of stuff that works, I mean. Using examples. Teachable moments.
Wayne didn’t respond to my post.
Probably can’t think of a good response. Partisans find it hard to transcend ideological bias. Sometimes it just means commentators forgot to check for a response, or got too busy with other things – often the case for me. 😎
Wayne the far/alt right are obsessive OCD. That’s why they look up to another obsessive nut job Trump.
The way you write of her, you make her sound like a shallow narcissist a la Donald Trump.
In fact, she’s highly intelligent and formidably well read, and her public statements are notable for their solid commonsense and compassion. Not qualities that are respected in the National Party, of course,
I presume you are talking about the PM. Quite the contrary to what you suggest.
The PM has worked out (like any senior politicians attaining high office in Labour) that in societies like ours you practically can go no further left than being a social democrat.
To go further left requires powers of the state not readily implementable in a democratic state that respects individual rights. Hardly the mark of compassion or commonsense.
The US Army Corps of Engineers own and operate 30% of the hydro dams in that country. The Americans seem to be comfortable with that ‘social democracy’s.
Wayne Labour is the new National Party with a heart. Emotional aloufness
Is at the heart of the National Party.
I reckon all of the above. And more. But here’s some other thoughts on that topic.
https://www.vox.com/2019/1/4/18167175/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-sandy-yorktown-high-school
Meanwhile she’s happy to own it and keep going with it.
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/ocasio-cortez-dancing-video-trnd/index.html
All of the hating on her just helps her make her case. Since most of her proposals are actually quite popular, hopefully it will help clarify who actually wants to work to improve the lives of the vast majority of Americans, and who is blowing smoke and bullshit while trying to funnel ever more towards those who are already the wealthiest and most powerful.
……. it will help clarify who actually wants to work to improve the lives of the vast majority of Americans,…..
Andre
It is why they cannot attack her openly, or ignore her.
A point that poor old Wayne just can’t comprehend.
I’ll try and explain it a bit more succinctly for him.
More photos af Anak Krakatau.
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2019/01/satellite-images-show-shattered-remains-of-indonesias-tsunami-causing-volcano/
Wow that’s some landslide.
Incredible.
A savvy person might track the plume of soil in the ocean and fish any sea mounts either side of it for the next few years then through the center after that.
Free nutrients, just sayin…
Genetic modification to dramatically improve photosynthetic efficiency. It could help us deal with the challenges of a world on its way to 10 billion humans. If only the rabids can get over their blind kneejerk opposition to genetic modification *because Monsanto*.
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/01/re-engineering-photosynthesis-gives-plants-a-40-growth-boost/
Opponents of GE may face a dilemma if viable GE solutions are found to carbon emissions in New Zealand agriculture.
Any new forms of plant are a risk, but so is not doing enough about climate change. Which is the bigger risk?
That’s already happening. AgResearch has developed a “high metabolisable energy” ryegrass that allegedly doesn’t need as much fertiliser and other inputs, and because of it’s makeup, allegedly animals that eat it produce less emissions.
https://www.futurefarming.com/Smart-farmers/Articles/2017/7/GM-grass-is-a-risk-to-NZ-farmings-competitive-advantage-2262WP/
But our local rabids are continuing their blind kneejerk opposition, because it’s genetically modified.
Andre – are you classifying all opponents to GMOs as “rabids”? If so, it’s offensive.
Could you clarify your position please.
I am classifying all blanket opponents to genetic modification that are unwilling to consider things on a case-by-case basis as rabids.
So if you’re opposed to AgResearch’s HME ryegrass being used in New Zealand simply because it’s genetically modified, yes I would consider you a rabid.
Andre – do you believe everybody who expresses concern about GMOs is a “blanket opponent to genetic modification” and if so, why do you assume such a thing?
Your position on this issue seems intemperate.
You say, “if” I etc. you would call me rabid. Are you aware of how unsound the “if” argument is?
Then go ahead, put up a more nuanced argument against AgResearch’s HME ryegrass. Or an argument against modifying crop plants to have more efficient photosynthesis.
In both cases, the benefits are clear and real. Reduced impact on the global environment by being able to produce more food from less land and less input of other resources.
The counterargument needs to be much stronger than vague hypotheticals. Vague hypotheticals includes claims that markets on the other side of the world might be willing to pay a bit more on the basis of their consumers’ vague hypotheticals.
I continue to be gobsmacked at the opposition to precise genetic modification techniques, while organisms produced by older scattergun mutation breeding techniques seem to get accepted without question. Particularly since there have been cases of actual harm from organisms produced by the older techniques, such as the swedes that poisoned those southland cattle a few years back.
Organic produce is worth more in global markets, nothing hypothetical or vague in that.
Well, you didn’t answer my question, Andre, which is irritating.
I’m not arguing those points you make; that more efficient photosynthesis can be drawn from a plant through altering its genetics, though I’m curious as to why nature, in all the time She’s had to refine the process, hasn’t settled on the best formula yet; just waiting for us clever-clogs humans to up Her game, I guess. The details of the science are easy for the scientists and their supporters to argue (genetic modification can result in some plants have more efficient photosynthesis, sure) but those same people seem to have tunnel vision and not be taking into account factors outside of the rude science. I suspect there’s little point in you and I arguing the toss any further, for that reason. Also, I have an event to prepare for and have to get busy preparing the venue, so must absent myself for a few hours. I’m still annoyed at your labelling me “rabid” though 🙂
“I’m still annoyed at your labelling me “rabid” though 🙂”
Surely you appreciate that a more lively conversation is likely to ensue if you rark it up at the start.
Oh, and the Southland farmers, or at least an number of them, deny that the HT swedes poisoned their cows – it was the weather that done it, they claim.
Precise genetic modification…
Believe whatever you like, Andre…
GM is, as digital technology to the natural world…
An unnatural manmade intrusion which ‘we’ can’t control, and are not included in the discussions about risk…
Demands for nuanced counter aguments are the tactics of minds which believe they understand the valuables and could control the outcomes…
That’s already proven to be false in the GM space…and yes Monsanto are a poster for why that will always be the case…
GM is tabacco science, repeated…
Gobsmacked…yes, sure…
“Good health is at the heart of self-righteous brightness”
Ideology vs pragmatism. My bias is to share Green fundamentalist aversion to unregulated genetic engineering, to the extent that I believe GE foods ought to be tested on an experimental batch of humans before being allowed into the market.
Ideological proponents of GE make themselves the ideal batch! Once these people practice what they preach, and consume GE foods for enough years whilst being scientifically-monitored to detect any negative health consequences, we would have results sufficient for public health policy. I’d go for a seven-period for the evaluation trial. If no common health problems emerge, I’d allow that GE food to be sold with a label specifying that it is GE food attached so the consumer can make an informed choice.
Nice! Total support.
That comes down to the issue of considering the characteristics of the modified organism, whether any of the characteristics of the organism cause concern (whether those characteristics are modified or unmodified). If there are characteristics that cause concerns, then how those characteristics have come about then becomes a matter for consideration because the technique used affects the risk of those characteristics spreading.
As far as testing GMO products on human subjects goes, hundreds of millions of North Americans have happily participated in that trial over the last several decades. I’m not aware of any negatives coming out of it. Unless anyone wants to try claiming the obesity epidemic is fundamentally causing by GMO crops, rather than people snarfing down way too much refined carbohydrates.
As far as labelling foods that include ingredients from GMOs goes, meh. It’s a very small added imposition on manufacturers. If that small concession to the evidence-free beliefs of a small minority of irrationals helps allow broader use of something that really can help make a difference, then I’m OK with going along with it. BTW, afaik GMO labelling is already in place in some jurisdictions.
The quality level of your thought, is low, Andre…and it comes out as narcissism in your comments…
*I’m not aware of any negatives
*Evidence free beliefs
*Small minority of irrationals
*I’m ok to go along with it
It’s all about you, Andre…
Keep to the engineering…anything else is out of your lane…
The juvenile insults and use of name calling are a giveaway…
It’s the flip side of referring to organic food as “clean” and any GM cross-pollination as “contamination.” Both sides have their blind spots.
“Sides”, PM?
I believe the debate involves a far more nuanced following that “two sides”.
There seems to be a great deal of simplification/polarizing going on here in this thread.
The issue itself is more nuanced than that, sure. However, on these discussion threads, there are definitely two sides: those who endorse GM as an additional technique for plant breeding, and those don’t.
How about heritage then, PM?
Traditional varieties sullied, in the eyes of the keepers of the gods-given taonga plants, by new man-made genetic material. Many of those peoples believe they are the plant, the plant is them. The health of those individuals, “actual” and spiritual, can be severely harmed by the loss of their taonga. The scientific view is not the be all and end all. A down stream effect of the “better” varieties offered by the GMO marketers is the rapid loss of these heritage varieties due to the pressures of both the market and the purveyors of the seeds. It may be that you believe that science trumps all, but I don’t and neither do many of the growers of traditional crops, I have to imagine.
Those heritage varieties are mostly threatened by the places they are grown getting taken over by new varieties, whether those new varieties are produced by the oldskool long slow imprecise process of selectively breeding from random mutations and crossbreeding and hybridization, or the slightly faster but wildly imprecise and high risk of unintended consequences process of mutation breeding, or the latest very precise and very low risk of unintended consequences process of genetic modification.
Protecting those heritage organisms is a valuable thing to do. But the threat is loss of the space where they are grown, rather than the technique used to create the organisms replacing them. The appropriate response is protecting the places they are grown, and the peoples growing them. Getting hung up about what techniques may or may not get used to create the organisms that displace the heritage does nothing to protect that heritage.
Not true, Andre, you lying toad! (see https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05-01-19/#comment-1568141) 🙂
The GMO seed companies actively destroyed those saved, heritage seed varieties in a number of important locations where such practices as saving seed from the previous harvest existed and levered their “must buy from us every year” GMO seeds into the space they created with their propaganda. They bought up the stocks from individual farmers, ending those lines forever and rendering the farmers entirely dependant upon the company, their seeds and their chemicals. The suicide rate amongst Indian farmers following this programme is appalling.
Robert, those shitty large corporates would be doing those exact same malicious things whether they were trying to impose their way using non-GMO products or if they are pushing their GMO stuff.
It’s corporate behaviour and the expanding powers and rights we seem to be willing to continue granting them that’s the problem. Not the tools they use to create a few of their products.
Banning everything created by those tools does precisely nothing to curb that shitty corporate behaviour. But it really restricts the capabilities of organisations such as our government research labs that are genuinely trying to do beneficial things.
Andre – what do you think growing GM plants (pasture grasses in particular, the focus here now) in NZ might achieve that couldn’t be done by changing the management of such crops?
Robert, if the HME grasses get anywhere close to what’s claimed for them, and that’s something that can really only be answered by field trials in NZ, then for most given levels of environmental impact (fertiliser and other input use, stocking levels, externalities such as emissions and water pollution) use of HME grasses should result in increased production and farm profitability. I support the idea of farmers making profits,
I would hope that if HME grasses become available and have a positive effect, then farmers would choose to take advantage of the improved productivity to reduce their impact and other resource use. As well as adopting other changes that reduce their environmental impact. But sadly I suspect that without regulation and taxes, most farmers would choose to grab the benefit of the HME grass to just increase production with the same disregard for externalities they have now.
“most farmers would choose to grab the benefit of the HME grass to just increase production with the same disregard for externalities they have now.”
Well, that’s the thing, Andre. A bit like Golden rice really, the unintended consequences that science doesn’t recognise and that’s where my argument comes from. You still seem reluctant to talk about the readily available changes that could be made to the culture of farming, the management of land that could solve the problems (and others) that GMO promises to solve. That is, there are significant changes that can be made, and have to be made in the face of climatic changes and other factors, that are being sidelined because GMO, GMO!! It’s a delaying, BAU tactic that will not help our situation, imo, largely because it’s a sop and makes us believe that we can do much as we have always done. I don’t believe that.
Here’s the thing, Robert. Nobody is trying to oppose those who wish to use the farming techniques you’re trying to promote. I even agree that widespread adoption of at least some of those techniques will help improve the situation for the future, even though there’s likely to be some small drop in total production from a given area of land compared to current intensive techniques.
On the other hand, with your blanket opposition to GMOs, you are trying to prevent the use of a powerful that could be a big help in improving things. Opposition based on nothing but hypothetical irrational beliefs here and among consumers in faraway markets that a few growers here believe they can extract increased profits from.
*Hyothetical irrational beliefs…
*You are trying to prevent
*Powerful
*Big help in improving things
Hubris, prevents you from understanding the fallacy of your comments…
Nature, is already perfect, Andre…human beings can only work in aligmment with that perfection, or work against natures perfection…
You don’t understand the ‘science’…you don’t understand the basic issues with way you push your irrational beliefs on this subject…you’ve done it a number of times…
Projection comes from narcissism…
Afterall ‘they’re’ only plants…
If humankind collectively exhibited the capacity for self-control in this pressure cooker of our own making, then I’d be all for the use of genetic technology as a stop-gap measure to give ourselves and the planet breathing space to recover from our excesses. But isn’t it much more likely to be used to continue with business as usual?
From a purely selfish point of view, I’m keen on BAU – on using technology to keep the whole impressive edifice tottering along for another generation or two. Would just like a bit more reassurance that ‘we’ll’ use that time wisely.
At One Two.
I totally agree.
‘Nature bats last.’
“On the other hand, with your blanket opposition to GMOs”
I don’t have such a thing.
“If humankind collectively exhibited the capacity for self-control in this pressure cooker of our own making, then I’d be all for the use of genetic technology as a stop-gap measure to give ourselves and the planet breathing space to recover from our excesses. But isn’t it much more likely to be used to continue with business as usual?”
I think that’s well-expressed, Drowsy and probably why I’m anxious about these developments, despite Psycho Milt’s relentless logic. His argument is pretty faultless, but there’s this nagging feeling that … well, you’ve expressed it better than I can.
Happy New Year Robert – frankly I’m at a loss. Our best chance is for more people (such as yourself) to lead by example, demonstrating various alternatives to BAUNZ.
Many more examples are needed. BAU is a siren luring us onto the rocks – it enables some to ‘get ahead’, or at least keep their heads above water as we all gradually go down the gurgler.
http://localbodies-bsprout.blogspot.com/2012/11/00-down-gurgler.html
A Roundup by any other name still doesn’t act sweetly.
Nevertheless, its use in UK farming has increased by an astonishing 400 per cent in the past 20 years, government figures show.
One-third of Britain’s crop-growing land is now treated with glyphosate (Monsanto’s patent for Roundup has expired, but while there are now more than 20 suppliers of glyphosate in Europe, Roundup remains the market leader, earning it some £1.5 billion a year worldwide).
Now its use is effectively being challenged in a landmark legal case in America.
In San Francisco, DeWayne Johnson, 46, a father of three and former school groundsman, is taking Monsanto to court.
He has a form of non-Hodgkin lymphoma, a cancer of the white blood cells that caused cancerous lesions to form over most of his body. Doctors say he may have only months to live.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6032781/Could-Britains-popular-garden-spray-killing-weeds.html
Also, the Daily Mail, along with its celebrity crap, does seem to have good articles that give a lot of info plus excellent images (without video). What do TSs think about its reporting quality (disregarding its body and breast and pregnancy fetishes)?
Roundup resistance is a good example of the kind of genetic modification I oppose, on balance.
I’m not thrilled about how the genetic modification was done, it apparently used a technique that has a high risk of spreading the modification to other organism, with definite downsides from those traits actually spreading. As I understand it, the glyphosate resistance was achieved by inserting small free-floating segments of DNA into the cells. It’s easy for organisms to exchange those small free-floating DNA segments with other organisms, it’s one way antibiotic resistance spreads. So it’s reasonable to suggest that glyphosate resistance would spread to other undesireable plants via DNA exchange as well as oldskool evolutionary selective pressure. I vaguely recall seeing stuff claiming that had actually happened. But newer techniques, CRISPR in particular, directly modify a much more stable part of the genome with much lower risk of transferring that genetic info to other organisms.
I’m quite anti the motivation for that particular modification. It was done by a large corporate for the purpose of locking farmers into buying the corporate’s seeds and chemical products. That kind of corporate manipulation and domination really turns my stomach.
On the flipside, using the glyphosate resistance apparently did result in overall reduced input and better profits for the farmers using it. But not enough to come close to balancing my distaste for the two points above.
But in the instances of the HME ryegrass or golden rice or the improved photosynthesis efficiency, none of those negative points apply that I’m aware (I don’t know details of how the genetic modifications were achieved). They’re are done by government funded research labs with no profit motive and the intent to make it available to all interested users, rather than an effort to lock users into a corporate’s products. I’m also struggling to come up with a downside of those genetic traits spreading to other organisms. They generally make a plant more edible, so it’s hard to imagine those traits thriving in the wild.
Golden rice, Andre? Really???
You’re making yourself a very easy target there – you must have read the arguments destroying the credibility of the Golden rice claims!!
The valid arguments against golden rice are whether it actually achieves what it tries and claims to do. That golden rice apparently falls short of the goals set for it is an argument that every new product should be carefully scrutinised against the claims made for it by its creators. That’s true for every new product that’s ever been created in the history of mankind, even the ones that aren’t being sold for profit.
That golden rice apparently doesn’t meet its stated goals isn’t an argument against genetic modification in general. Like all other other tools, techniques and processes, sometimes genetic modification gives good results, other times not so much.
Getting negative about the organisations behind golden rice because they are using some of the same tools as malicious corporates such as Monsanto is just weird. IRRI aren’t trying to lock farmers into something that makes them a huge profit, they’ve explicitly rejected trying to profit from it. They’re genuinely trying to create something that improves nutritional outcomes for huge numbers of people currently suffering from nutritional deficiencies.
I’d personally like to see more efforts along similar lines, and if better results can be achieved through techniques other than genetic modification, more power and support to those other efforts. But really all I see in that area is blind opposition to golden rice and IRRI’s efforts, *because Monsanto*.
edit: Yes, I specifically chose to mention golden rice rice because I figured that would help rark things up again.
“That golden rice apparently doesn’t meet its stated goals isn’t an argument against genetic modification in general.”
I wasn’t using it for tha. It is however a very good argument against Golden rice, which was my point.
“They’re genuinely trying to create something that improves nutritional outcomes for huge numbers of people currently suffering from nutritional deficiencies.”
They may be genuine, but they could well be barking up the wrong tree. Again, I’ll ask: https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-05-01-19/#comment-1568181
On balance! I quote a philosopher about the workings and thinking of the minds of men and women that applies to the thoughts put for and against, genetic modification and its glittering, rainbow, illusory benefits.
The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. Bertrand Russell
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/bertrand_russell_121392
and
“A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a fool can learn from a wise answer.”
–Bruce Lee
(I hope that applies to those trying to be wise on TS. There is plenty of opportunity for practice.)
and
Everything happens for a reason, and sometimes the reason is you’re stupid and made a bad decision. … Bertrand Russell, “The Triumph of Stupidity” (1933-05-10)
wikiquote
I know let’s get rid of grandma’s bad traits by letting the ‘doctor’ change her genetic makeup. Then lets fast forward 5 generations and see how it all turned out. Who’s keen? Completely fucked up.
Too much rain gives animals the shits the protein in the food is lacking. Now we face elevated CO2 and that causes a similar problem. But science is gonna save us with plants that photosynthesise better because look we’re amazing there won’t be any roll on effect…
If they’re so clever how about they make a rubisco like catalyst and capture the carbon without plants. They can make statues and awards out of it to give to themselves.
The planet desperately needs biodiversity. How will these clonal organisms fare in the face of change?
Typical corporate fare dressed up as saving the world. And don’t y’all love the idea of more (American) patents on plants.
Our diet’s are already reduced to species poor, bland monoclonal fare… Leave the food alone.
Biotech – ‘we’re better than nature’ – no, you myopic children, you’re not.
Kick the chemists out of agriculture, meddling fucking morons.
Hey! A rabid!
(I’m with him 🙂
Correct me if I’m wrong, but golden kiwifruit were evolved via GE from the green kind? If so, where’s the viability of a blanket rule? Plant hybrids have more than a century of development without attracting ideological opposition. Is there a line between GE and hybridisation? If yes, how is it specified? And why did it not emerge into the media during the controversy about twenty years ago?
You are wrong:
On some fronts not a lot has changed. Consumer perceptions continue to shape market considerations. I still remember Zespri politely informing the Royal Commission that any field trials on GM products could ruin the emerging trade in the then relatively new gold kiwifruit. Zespri’s view was the public could easily come to believe that what is a different species might be a genetically modified green kiwifruit.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/86731570/in-the-groundhog-country-of-gm-research
I don’t believe that’s the case, Dennis. I have a plant growing here called a Manchurian Gooseberry which I believe is the original form of the golden kiwifruit. That is, another in the Actinidia family and found naturally (in Manchuria, I guess 🙂
Oh, okay. Does it produce a fruit that looks like those on the market? If there’s a visual difference, that could be due to genetic modification. Then the question is: what caused the difference? Selective breeding or GE? That Stuff article Solkta linked to has this:
“Fifty years of molecular biology has produced results requiring a deep rethinking of basic evolutionary concepts. Instead of proving the hard genetic wiring of living things by an all-determining genome, molecular biologists now understand much more about how microbes and organisms regulate the expression, reproduction, transmission, and restructuring of their DNA molecules.”
“Since the Royal Commission on GM, molecular biologists have established that natural genetic modification (NGM) plays a substantial role in evolution. These processes are significantly different from what GM-Free NZ opposes and Dr Rolleston proposes.”
“NGM does not proceed by selection of random mutations in DNA. Things thought to be impossible less than 20 years ago, such as gene transfer between different species, are now known to be the norm in microbes, and to play a key role in evolution. NGM most commonly occurs by the rearrangement of existing DNA sequences, and in a surprising large number of cases the rearrangement of whole genomes.”
Seems to be along the line of Bruce Lipton’s specialty (epigenetics). Evolution proceeds via interaction with environment. Holist rather than reductionist thinking is the paradigm shift bringing this about.
Yes, the science and practice has “come a long way” but many of the social/cultural/spiritual aspects have not changed and are still important to those affected. Science doesn’t account for that. People can though. That’s where the argument, and especially that of Dr. Rolleston, with whom I’ve argued publicly, seems both myopic and dangerous to me.
Dennis Frank
Nobody wants to consider slow guided evolution as a possibility is why it didn’t emerge in the media. And after we have had such frequent discussions about the downsides and twistedness that the media minds can be subject to, why would you think that they would ‘about 20 years ago’ be any better than now. They have always been open to hyperbole and wilful blindedness and other problems peculiar to themselves.
And the greens and informed and thoughtful have been so concerned about letting in GM that they have tried to resist any body getting a shoe-in in the door. Because there are so many money-focussed people who love tinkering with everything, and love science because it gives them so many tinkering opportunities that they would embrace GM and we would be stuck with it, and paying out for the disasters for ever. Which would be covered in sticky lies, and the public covered in confusion about them, and there would be ongoing rich pickings for the unscrupulous subversives.
Hence the old name for kiwifruit of “Chinese Gooseberry” presumably …?
Totally agree.
“only the rabids can get over their blind kneejerk opposition to genetic modification”
What about the thoughtfuls who oppose genetic modification for well-founded reasons?
After thirty years of GM foods, there is no evidence of health harm. So what are the “well founded reasons”?
Probably just about all the soy consumed in New Zealand is GM modified.
I can understand the precautionary approach as it was applied in New Zealand twenty years ago. That was why National never made a fuss about the GM ban back then. But in the twenty years since we actually know that all the doom laden scenarios spoken about twenty years ago haven’t actually materialised. It is why Sir Peter Gluckman said in 2017 that New Zealand needs to take a fresh look at the issue.
I didn’t claim “health harm”. Just one “reason” for rejecting proposals to grow genetically modified crops in New Zealand could be the loss of market opportunity for non-GM exports. If there’s a substantial and growing market for “clean” food world-wide, we will throw away the chance to benefit from that. New Zealand could market itself successfully, Imo, as producers of “food grown the way nature grows it” or some such label. That’s just one reason. It’s easy for pro-GM commenters to argue against “unsophisticated” claims made by early anti-GE opposers, but the real, reasonable, responsible debate is not being had. Yet.
So a small part of the farming community have fantasies they might get more money from their market of a few irrationals way way away on the other side of the world because they can claim “genetic modification free”.
So on the basis of this, they expect to impose their irrationality on everyone else to deny them the benefits of reduced climate changing emissions, reduced input resource use (including land)? And then claim they are holding some kind of responsible position?
After 30 years of the techniques being in use, surely if there’s any kind of actual risk, opponents could point to it. Instead of just invoking vague hypotheticals.
Andre – why is the belief that non-GMO produce could offer a market advantage “irrational”?
Andre is quick to throw insults at those who disagree with him.
As soon as people resort to ad hominems , you know their argument is weak.
Thank you Ed, the Libs always are the first to throw stones.
‘Irrationals’
That’s the problem with people who can’t think outside of their own box, nobody else makes sense to them.
You don’t seem to know what the word ‘rational’ means.
PMilt
Back here being superior are we?
What’s your understanding of the meaning of “rational”, PM?
That which logically follows. Feel free to think “outside your own box,” but don’t expect anyone to treat the resulting thoughts as rational unless they are.
It logically follows that the integrity of an organic crop is lost if the seed it grew from contains GMOs from a neighbour’s GMO crop.
Yep, that’s rational – but I wasn’t in any doubt about your understanding of the term, Robert.
I got an amazing lot out of Christopher McDougalls book Natural Born Heroes. In it was reference to the Cretan diet. And the ‘weeds they eat. And their health.
Here is a piece i haven’t yet read but that goes into their diet which references their ancient patterns of their regular foods.
https://www.spicesinc.com/p-6315-the-cretan-diet-the-original-mediterranean-diet.aspx
Very interesting, thanks for that! Notable that “average olive oil consumption in Spain is 12 liters/person, Italy 11 liters/person and the US runs about 0.5 liter/person annually. In Crete, it’s 25 liters per person per year.”
However I recall Graeme Sait telling an audience here about ten years ago that the only cooking oil on the market that was still free of genetic modification is coconut oil. So Cretan health cannot be replicated here if they still use traditional olive trees as their source of the oil. https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/author/graeme-sait/
Eureka. Thank you. I have been trying to refind a link to that site for a long time. Could not remember Graeme Salt’s name or the name of the site.
The particular article I was trying to refind was this one:
https://blog.nutri-tech.com.au/the-bastardisation-of-our-food/#disqus_thread
In particular for this bit (my bold):
1) A demineralised mutant
The hybridized, green revolution grains, upon which most of our modern bread is based, attracted a Nobel prize for Norman Bourlag. It can be easily argued that his slap on the back should probably have been a kick in the rear. He did not use traditional hybridization techniques to create this more squat variety, which was much less prone to lodging. Instead, he irradiated the original wheat varieties and selected a mutant that became our main food. The mutant solved the problem related to the yield loss linked to the difficulties in harvesting wheat that had fallen over in the wind (lodged). However, the compromise was a massive loss in nutrient density. In fact, the wheat varieties we largely consume today take up 50% less iron, 30% less calcium and magnesium and 20% less trace minerals than the original, open pollinated varieties.There is one mineral that this compromised cereal can no longer uptake at all. This is the rarely-considered trace mineral, cobalt. You might assume that this loss of cobalt in our diet is insignificant in the big picture. However, you would be wrong! Cobalt is the building block for an incredibly important nutrient called vitamin B12. A key reason that many of us are now lacking this energy vitamin relates to the loss of cobalt in our most popular food.
Why?
This reply I did to Robert Guyton yesterday explains why briefly.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-01-2019/#comment-1567631
As I said there, I can write a thesis on B12 deficiency although my PA is presumed to be familial/gene related. I am involved in worldwide related (reputable) medical research/support blogs etc. and the subject of the hybridization of wheat in particular is of interest.
For example, many people who are intolerant of gluten (as opposed to totally allergic such as Celiacs) can tolerate wheat from Italy for example, where hybridization has not happened to nearly the same extent as in the big wheat producing countries such as Australia, Canada, US etc. So some people find that they can tolerate Italian duram wheat flour and pasta imported from Italy whereas they have trouble with Australian/NZ wheat and NZ/Australian made pasta.
But enough. Thanks again for the link.
.
You’re welcome. 😊 Glad to be helpful (along with flippancy & critique)! I hope we get our cobalt in trace amounts from other sources.
I’ve been making my own bread (breadmaker) most of this millennium, using wholemeal wheat as base, but with various additives. Currently the latter are: sorgum/besan/tapioca/buckwheat/quinoa/amaranth flours (around half a heaped tbspn of each) plus chia seeds and LSA.
Most people get their cobalt from foods containing Vitamin B12 as cobalt is an element of B12 which is cobalamin. Vegans and to a lesser extent, vegetarians, must be careful to supplement their diet with B12 as the only foods containing B12 are meat, chicken, fish, dairy and eggs. OTH people like me who are unable to absorb B12 because of autoimmune metaplastic gastric atrophy etc must inject to bypass the gastric system.
Before being diagnosed I was highly dairy intolerant and gluten intolerant, hence my knowledge re the difference in Italian wheat etc. B12 injections plus raw apple cider vinegar daily (low stomach acid goes hand in hand with Pernicious Anaema) means I can now tolerate both dairy and gluten much better, but still keep it low gluten. I sometimes also still make my own (breadmaker and by hand) bread using glutenfree flours – worth making your own bread for the smell alone!
Interested to see you listed sorghum first. I have trouble getting sorghum flour here in Wellington. The gluten free Weetbix is sorghum, and love it compared to the wheat one. I read recently that a portion of wheat growers in Australia are changing over to sorghum for the higher returns and lower water needs.
I had a quick google: presume you’ve tried https://www.bininn.co.nz/gluten-free ? Doesn’t actually say, so a phone call required. This does though: https://davis.nz/flours-grains-rice-pasta-yeast/white-sorghum-flour
Thanks for the links. Being in south Wellington I tend to forget about BinInn and Davis shops in Petone. Yet I really love Petone and its unique character. I can see a trip around the harbour happening in the near future.
By the way, I now realise that the link in my earlier comment to OM 3 Jan was bad, so here is the proper one.
https://thestandard.org.nz/open-mike-03-01-2019/#comment-1567631
In brief I was finally diagnosed a couple of years ago with Addison-Biermer Syndrome aka Pernicious Anemia – B12 deficiency due to autoimmune metaplastic gastric atrophy. I now have to inject B12 frequently eg now weekly to stay alive but years of not getting a proper diagnosis meant that a lot of damage is now irreversible. But the biggest positive of B12 supplementation has been to my memory and mental capabilities. Highly recommend it for that alone. There are some B12 advocates who reckon that checking B12 levels and supplementation in the over-60s (very cheap) would save massive $$$$$s in keeping the elderly in their homes and functioning mentally etc rather than many ending up in rest homes and dementia wards needlessly.
Not if you live in the King Country Dennis. Cobalt has been added at 0.1 parts per million to fertiliser. Prior to that sheep died of sleeping sickness caused by this lack leading to no uptake of vit B12.
For cattle it is 0.06 cheers. Several volcanic areas are deficient in this mineral.
Similarly selenium
Oh yes just so. Thanks Iprent
The interesting thing I, and others, have found re human B12 deficiency is that veterinarians and pharmacists – and midwifes – have a much greater knowledge of B12 and related problems than GPs AND specialist doctors.
Many of the latter are virtually ignorant and misinformed and people find it really difficult finding a doctor who has any knowledge, and tests and treats B12 deficiency correctly.
The reasons aren’t well-founded.
Within the Green Party, the primary reason given for opposing GM is that organic certification requires organic produce to be GM-free and that can’t be guaranteed if we have GM crops growing as well (due to wind-borne cross-pollination).
So, the reason effectively is that the Green Party believes the organic food industry’s unreasonable restrictions against GM must take precedence over the rest of the country’s agricultural sector. As a reason, that’s anything but “well-founded.”
The argument that GM crops threaten the integrity of organic, non-GM crops is entirely correct, PM and therefore entirely well-founded. Your extrapolation, that there are flow-on effects on the “rest of the country’s agricultural sector” may be true, but doesn’t change the validity of the organic industry’s claim.
GM crops do not threaten the “integrity” of organic crops, they make it difficult for organic crops to meet an unreasonable requirement of organic certification. So, the argument is that we must ban GM crops in order to satisfy an irrational requirement of an unreasonable sector group. That argument is only well-founded if we accept that the unreasonable is reasonable, which we shouldn’t.
GM crops through their pollen contaminate natural crops and stop the production by the plant of the natural seed in just one season of growth.
Then that seed produced is contaminated for ever. Monsanto could trace their product in the ‘natural’ farmer’s product after it had been contaminated by pollenation and sued the farmer!
That is another reason to control manipulated product being used in NZ. It is a plan to control the crop plants of the world by corporates. People who love practical outcomes from science are obsessed with them and ignore the real consequences as externalities to a theory.
1. There are no “natural” crops. All of them are the result of “manipulation” via one mechanism or another.
2. The term “contaminated” is a meaningless pejorative in this context.
3. The role of corporations in agriculture is a separate issue from genetic modification of crop plants, and a much larger one, and applies to organic farming as much as it does to any other type.
Nothing (or everything) natural, perhaps, but lines can be drawn, for example, where the genetic modification of human genes is concerned, there are ethical boundaries set (presently) and beyond that boundary, the results of such modifications are called, “unnatural”. Why not with plants? Manipulation “via one mechanism or other” sure, but not by any mechanism at all. We humans make judgement calls. This is one.
The term “contaminated” isn’t meaningless – it has meaning to most who read it. It may well be perjorative, but it still carries meaning, imo.
I disagree that “The role of corporations in agriculture is a separate issue from genetic modification of crop plants”. You may wish to seperate the two, but you’d have to explain your reasons for doing so. Your wish to do so strengthens the argument that too narrow a focus on the science will produce a dangerously narrow action and result.
Why not with plants?
It’s thousands of years too late to close the stable door on that one. We humans make judgement calls about ethics, but the ethics of modifying a plant are pretty clear: we’ve been doing it for a very long time, all human civilisations have been based on it, and no compelling ethical argument for not doing it has been offered. If people want to claim that a particular mechanism for modifying plants is ethically unacceptable, it’s up to them to make the case for why that particular mechanism, but not others, is unacceptable.
The term “contaminated” isn’t meaningless – it has meaning to most who read it.
It’s a straightforward pejorative, intended to imply a health threat from GM that doesn’t actually exist. You might as well refer to a cup of coffee as having been “contaminated” by sugar – it lets us know what you think of sugar in your coffee, but doesn’t really do anything else.
You may wish to seperate the two, but you’d have to explain your reasons for doing so.
Genetic engineering is a technology, not a corporation. Like electrical power generation, it can be carried out by public sector organisations, anarchist cooperatives or sufficiently-knowledgeable individuals. The things multi-national corporations get up to that are against the public interest and should be opposed make a long list, but it’s a separate list.
I’m not promoting the closing of the “plants” stable door, I’m warning that throwing it wide open is irresponsible and that we humans have to take responsibility for what we do, especially where it involves other beings/organisms. The people who are claiming that a particular mechanism for modifying plants, GM, is ethically unacceptable, are making a case, as I am endeavouring to do. Do you not see any evidence of such a case being made, PM?
I think it’s you who is reading the pejorative into “contaminated” it’s a straight-forward concept/word; something (foreign) from outside becoming inside. Sugar can indeed be regarded as a contaminant, even when you’ve added it yourself.
Your “Genetic engineering is a technology, not a corporation. ”
seems a similar argument to the gun-lobby’s, “guns don’t kill people, people do” – do you subscribe to that also?
In that case, we’re both in full agreement that unregulated genetic engineering would be a very bad idea. Fortunately, NZ is pretty good at applying regulations to things, and genetic engineering here is mostly carried out by public-sector organisations. And an ironic unintended consequence of banning genetic engineering in well-regulated countries like NZ would be to leave genetic engineering to those countries where good regulations and ethics oversight aren’t the norm. As with nuclear fission, the genie isn’t going to get back in the bottle for us.
What is the ethical case against direct genetic modification of plants? I’ve seen an economic case (it would make it difficult for us to market GE-free food to irrational consumers), and various irrational ones (eg the allegedly-natural is good, the scientific is bad). Any ethical argument against direct rather than indirect genetic modification of plants has passed me by so far.
” NZ is pretty good at applying regulations to things,”
Like … oil exploration?
Most “consumers” probably make “irrational” decisions about the things they consume; that’s not a charge you can direct to organic food buyers alone.
“Any ethical argument against direct rather than indirect genetic modification of plants has passed me by so far.”
Have you explored the statements from the representatives of various indigenous cultures that loudly proclaim their soulful objection to GMOs?
How have you not heard these?
Ah, OK. I’ve heard those, but “We don’t like this sort of thing” isn’t an argument.
Nor is your interpretation, “We don’t like this sort of thing” a sign that you’ve any understanding of what they are really saying.
You talk a lot of shit dressed as facts.
‘Thousands of years’…. of what exactly?
Selection. You know, that evolutionary principle.
‘You may as well think of coffee as contaminated by sugar’
Really. That’s what you got?
And corporates and GE are obviously separate oh you speak the gospel Milty boy!
Except the funding, the research, the funding for the research, the plans, the implementation, the legalese, the patents, the global advertising, the PR campaigns, the huge fees, the cover ups…
The witless champions.
Not corporate at all.
…what they are really saying.
I’m sorry if I’ve misinterpreted it, but what argument is being made?
You talk a lot of shit dressed as facts.
If I valued your opinion at all, I’d probably care that you think that.
“If I valued your opinion at all, I’d probably care that you think that.”
I’m possibly the most qualified here on evolution having a 2016 masters degree with 1st division honors in the subject. Papers in biotech, chemistry, biochemistry… You can’t talk scientific shit to me I went off and made sure of that. Also helped teach genetics and biotech at university level.
But I’m a buffoon right, cos I lean left and green. And you’ve read some science blogs.
Selective breeding is inherently different – inherently… to genetic engineering. The difference is not nitpicking it is a fundamental shift. From the mixing of parent materials to produce variant offspring – the ‘favorable traits’ chosen for crops… to the insertion of ‘favorable genes’ to a target organism.
Favorable traits are part of an entire genome and may involve whole suites of genes. A selected organism still has phenotypic plasticity due to breeding. The generations of breeding adapt organisms to soil types, climates and conditions. Clones force the forcing of environments to produce crops or are simply production units for factory farming e.g. salmon.
Favorable genes are the products of reductionist science where considering only what’s under examination is acceptable. These genes are ‘selling points’ used to pimp out and displace whole lines of typical fare. The nutritional value doesn’t matter, only shelf life, aesthetics, production and ownership…
It’s a corporate jizz rag. And for the scientists who think they’re playing god, it’s still just a jizz rag.
Scientific enough descriptor for ya?
I didn’t say you were a buffoon, I said your comments give me the impression you don’t know what ‘rational’ means. I’m flattered that you value my opinion enough to care that I think that, but your comments since haven’t changed that opinion.
What argument are you trying to make in the comment above? It looks like your argument is that, because direct genetic modification is different from the indirect genetic modification that results from selective breeding, direct genetic modification is therefore a Bad Thing. There also appears to be a secondary argument that, because private corporations are involved in genetic engineering, genetic engineering is therefore a Bad Thing.
Both of those are non-sequiturs. Your personal preference for selective breeding isn’t an argument for it, and genetic engineering in this country is the preserve of public-sector institutions, not private corporations. And the scientists involved aren’t “playing god” so much as “doing their jobs.”
Doing their jobs, scientists can often be funded by private corporations directly or through funding a Party or Minister surruptitiously? to get their plans furthered, You make such sure statements, it is as if you were ten and hadn’t learned anything about the string-pulling and puppet-dance that goes on always except we don’t hear about it till a whistle blows. Time out for oranges!
My point was that selecting an organism is hugely different from selecting a gene. Both in its scope of focus, and it’s lack of holistic understanding.
Your argument that selective breeding is comparative to GE is, to speak plainly, plainly bullshit.
We have broken the planet and still arrogantly declare we have mastered the genetic code, meanwhile we can’t even spell out what drives evolution – after 200 years of debate. (actually, I can, but it’s still up for debate…)
Biodiversity (including within a species aka genetic diversity) is crucial. Especially in times of rapid change. Extinction or simply functional extinction is a result of the loss of the ability to adapt. The ability to adapt and biodiversity are intrinsically linked – So are climate change and rapid environmental alterations.
Meanwhile the delusional carry on banging about in the dark and calling themselves illuminated.
Give nature, and us, a fucking break.
Psycho recently returned from a lengthy ban…
This specific subject is one which milt has previous form and patterns…
You are experiencing a repeat of PM’s patterns…and the constraints/limiations of his ‘thought process’…
The ‘science acolytes’…not as dangerous as the scientists who believe they can ‘control’ …but equally as ‘dumb’…
Problems can’t and won’t be solved using the same approach which created them…
It’s all very simple…except to the acolytes…
Doing their jobs, scientists can often be funded by private corporations directly or through funding a Party or Minister surruptitiously?
If human activity being subject to human nature is an argument against genetic engineering, it’s an argument against every other human activity as well.
Also: I see you still can’t comment without giving me a personality assessment while you’re at it.
I was wondering how long it would take for that ‘argument’ to be made…
It speaks to the survival rate of our species, but alao speaks to the lack of wisdom which has left the planet and environment in its present state…
Scientists, and those who direct them, fund them, manage the outputs and seek to control the paths taken simply CAN NEVER control the unlimited variables….
Talk of ‘precise’ GE is flawed thinking of the most fundamental type…
There are unlimited possible consequences which could follow from a single dna/gene alteration…which can NEVER be tested…
Once a GMO is released into the environment, those outcomes can’t be undone…
Believing that it is about ‘precise’…is anything but , precise thinking…
The wisdom to stop what is being done…the wisdom to know that those who have created the problems are NOT the solution to them…
But they will keep going…with the support of people who are blinded by the ‘awesome’ of ‘progress’, ‘advancement’ …
SCIENCE!
Is Psycho Milt the reincarnation of Mr Spock?
Your argument that selective breeding is comparative to GE is, to speak plainly, plainly bullshit.
They’re different tools for doing the same job, with GE being a faster and more precise tool. Someone who chooses to protect in a plant a natural mutation that’s useful to the person but would be evolutionarily disadvantageous to the plant isn’t taking a “holistic” or “natural” approach any more than a genetic engineer does. They’re both just using the tools they have to achieve a desired outcome.
Your statements about “breaking the planet” and biodiversity are claims about human population growth and industrial farming in general, not genetic engineering in particular. The entire planet could outlaw GE tomorrow and the problems you’re referring to would still exist, and could conceivably be worse. This is a common problem with the arguments of GE opponents, ie the arguments often do not support the conclusions claimed.
“This is a common problem with the arguments of GE opponents, ie the arguments often do not support the conclusions claimed.”
Yes, I think that’s true.
I also think the arguments of the GE proponents lack the “buffers” that come from outside of pure logic, buffers which come from somewhere other than the brain. The same issue is found in medicine, where the precise extract of a plant, synthesised even, becomes the medicine, rather than the plant itself, which contained the buffers that moderate the effects on the body. The two schools rarely mix, though I met a GP yesterday who practices both.
Psycho recently returned from a lengthy ban…
Thank you! Yes I did, and it’s very kind of you to notice.
For what reason were you banned?
And as WeTheBeeple may not be aware being a relative newie here, it is great to see you back as one of the longest term commenters here at TS.
I get what you are saying, PM and your comment at 7.54am is an excellent summary.
EDIT – for Robert Guyton. A very complicated misunderstanding between two moderators which is now history and best left as such. PM’s ban was rescinded very shortly thereafter but PM has only recently learned this and returned.
You’re our resident historian, veutoviper!
Psycho Milt has a laser-like mind.
I’m a soft-tone incandescent myself 🙂
I have a great memory these days Robert. Its all that Vitamin B12 I have to inject to stay alive! Highly recommend it.
Traditional biodiversity in nature is produced by cross-pollination as well as mutation, so the argument that GE users are just adding to the mix has some merit. However it is also reasonable to view un-natural cross-pollinators as pollutants in the ecosystem. If the latter produce harmful health or economic consequences for consumers and/or farmers, polluters must pay.
Genetic mutations occur naturally, that’s for sure. The issue is, I think, the intent behind human-activated mutations – who’s doing it for what purpose? That’s the aspect of the debate the scientists won’t address (it’s not science, you see). That, along with unintended consequences/risk, is the hole in their argument, imo.
Yes, as a science grad I get that, and have long been aware that lack of science in the Green movement allows fundamentalism to prevail over a balanced view.
Ethics is an essential basis for public policy. Politicians shy away, due to it being traditionally deemed too esoteric to be useful. A mistake.
Biodiversity.
Rapid change.
Enough said.
The organic food industry is a product of its market which dictates the need for food to be GMO free. It bias therefore a reasonable position for the industry to take. It wants to provide what its market demands.
No evidence you say, Wayne…
The evidence of poor health, disease and illness is all around, Wayne…and rapidly increasing…
The sheer quantity of toxic environmental contaminates which the modern world is made of, reduces the ability to identify causes of disease and illness…to statements such as…
There is no evidence…
The evidence that these are the End Times is all around us!
You came back…
No, I won’t click any link you post…
I wouldn’t either One Two.
PM
In logic, reductio ad absurdum (Latin for “reduction to absurdity”), also known as argumentum ad absurdum (Latin for “argument to absurdity”) or the appeal to extremes, is a form of argument that attempts either to disprove a statement by showing it inevitably leads to a ridiculous, absurd, or impractical conclusion, …
Reductio ad absurdum – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
This is what you are resorting to Psycho Milt. Can you keep on track. This is a serious matter, not an afternoon’s entertainment for a dilettante.
If you really thought it a serious matter, you’d be able to reply to me without including superfluous assessments of my personality.
um not really life, expectancy is still increasing.
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_dyn_le00_in&hl=en&dl=en
Well, if we want to just use cherry-picked data out of context, we could point to the US and try on the argument that American life expectancy is reducing and that Americans are also the biggest GMO consumers. But that also requires trying to make the argument that eating GMOs causes people to become suicidal and drug dependent …
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/us-life-expectancy-drops-third-year-row-reflecting-rising-drug-overdose-suicide-rates-180970942/
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0038071704004201
“The degradation of the biomass of all Bt [GMO] plants in the absence of soil but inoculated with a microbial suspension from the same soil was also significantly less than that of their respective inoculated non-Bt plants. The addition of streptomycin, cycloheximide, or both to the soil suspension did not alter the relative degradation of Bt+ and Bt− biomass, suggesting that differences in the soil microbiota were not responsible for the differential decomposition of Bt+ and Bt− biomass. All samples of soil amended with biomass of Bt plants were immunologically positive for the respective Cry proteins and toxic to the larvae of the tobacco hornworm (Manduca sexta), which was used as a representative lepidopteran in insect bioassays (no insecticidal assay was done for the Cry3A protein from potato). The ecological and environmental relevance of these findings is not clear.”
And repeat
‘The ecological and environmental relevance of these findings is not clear.’
Well… the plants don’t break down as well so the soil is not replenished requiring more inputs aka fertilizers. The insects die so the grinding and shredding of plant material is missing, and the unique diversity of micro fauna the insects bring to the composting process. The worms probably go too, and with it water penetration and aeration, leading to compaction and the ‘need’ for large machinery and tillage despite having a ground cover.
A toxic ground cover.
‘relevance of these findings is not clear’.
When the authors of articles make the comment “relevance of these findings is unclear” it is just that.
No. When the authors have one discipline, like most scientists, they are not able to contemplate potential outcomes outside their box.
Humans have become quite useless thinkers in this specialised world. Multidisciplinary thinkers have been called for, but few answered the call they all go to their cubicles.
Also called hedging their bets. Scientists are terribly concerned with being wrong, unhealthily so in many instances fighting their entire lives over some infinitesimal point.
I think you’ll find that without grinders and shredders, the grinding and shredding is not there, nor the commensals from the grinders and shredders.
It’s not rocket science.
Which reasons are those Robert ?
See above, Stunned Mullet, for just one. There are many more. Put up an example of why you believe GMOs should be employed here and I’ll counter with others against.
Not sure I understand that reasoning Robert. To my mind GM agriculture offers some extremely actrsctive benefits much as those we’ve seen in medicine over the last several decades.
My reasoning , SM, is around market advantage and disadvantage. I have a different view about medicines.
Isn’t GE for medicine done in the lab?
Not a logical comparison.
Comparison to what?
SM said: To my mind GM agriculture offers some extremely actrsctive benefits much as those we’ve seen in medicine over the last several decades.
But my understanding is that GE medicines are created in the lab. That is not “agriculture”. I might be wrong, i did use a question mark, and if i am wrong then SM can link to some GE medicine being grown in the environment.
That’s right, solkta, but the lines are already blurring; plants that contain the “medicines” in question are being grown in (some) fields. Non-rabid commenters who oppose the use of GMOs in agriculture/horticulture/aquaculture have long said there’s a place for medical research using GMOs in the lab. The industry continues to expand as much as the public will allow and are aiming for…everywhere.
What’s happening here in NZ is that the agricultural industry is pushing (hard) for the release of GMO grasses across the whole “NZ farm” – that’s massive. Why do they want to do that? To “concrete in” farming as a viable industry and make it more profitable, in the face of Mother Nature’s pressure on them to stop; rivers and estuaries steeped in nitrogen, soils washed out to sea, poisonous cadmium spread around farmland like icing on a cake and much more. They are meeting the threat of climate change by doubling-down.
Are you suggesting farming isn’t a viable industry Robert ?
the GMO debate seems to me a bit like the debates on vaccination with very entrenched positions by those who are the most vocal.
Attached a reasonably balanced easy to read overview of the common concerns about GMO and the authors views on each.
https://www.popsci.com/article/science/core-truths-10-common-gmo-claims-debunked
Conventional farming, SM, not viable.
As to your second point, does it? Others may behave that way, Stunned, but not me 🙂 I take a nuanced, thoughtful, open-minded approach to this topic, it being, or rather plants being, dear to my heart. Humans too, and the rest of Creation.
The debate is not only a binary problem (yes /no) there are significant plausible arguments that the so called science of GMO underestimate risk (and ruin) for not understanding the risk models hence a precautionary response in policy is required.
https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/genetically-modified-organisms-risk-global-ruin-says-black-swan-author-e8836fa7d78
On GMOs: “A pound of algebra is worth a ton of verbal commentary”. I managed to fit the Precautionary Principle into a few lines. The GMO paid propagandists are pounding tons of verbalistic statements (even an incompetent smear campaign), but this simple summary should cancel about everything they are trying to say. In a single column. They need to refute my representation or show that f(breeding) has the same maximum as f(GMOs).
http://nassimtaleb.org/tag/gmo/
“NBC News veteran slams network’s ‘hostage status’ to Trump in resignation letter”
“Pro-war ‘Trump circus’: Veteran reporter quits NBC with biting critique of corporate newsroom ”
“Mr. Arkin, who is staunchly anti-war and far from being a supporter of Mr. Trump, said part of his reason for leaving NBC was the network’s obsession with opposing the president at every turn.
“Of course he is an ignorant and incompetent impostor. And yet I’m alarmed at how quick NBC is to mechanically argue the contrary, to be in favor of policies that just spell more conflict and more war,” he wrote. “Really? We shouldn’t get out Syria? We shouldn’t go for the bold move of denuclearizing the Korean peninsula? Even on Russia, though we should be concerned about the brittleness of our democracy that it is so vulnerable to manipulation, do we really yearn for the Cold War? And don’t even get me started with the FBI: What? We now lionize this historically destructive institution?”
I would say you could easily transpose this letter to most most mainstream ‘liberal’ new sources.
Here is a link to the full letter, which is well worth reading..
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/02/media/william-arkin-departs-nbc-news/index.html
https://www.democracynow.org/2019/1/3/headlines/news_veteran_arkin_quits_nbc_slams_networks_reporting
Few us msm outlets are dealing well with Trump.
i dont blame them. We’re not expecting another Edward R Murrow anyntime soon.
Trump is truly a phenomenon breaking multiple institutions public and private – and US politics or co2verage won’t return to pre-trump status ever. This shutdown is going to gut the remaining public sector there for several years.
its more surprising there havent been whole tv stations going down.
we may not like some of the status quo biases of the msm, but we’ll miss them when they’re gone.
That’s good point Ad. Sort of throwing out the baby with the bathwater stuff.
“some’ of the status quo biases?? Really?.The msm were hijacked by the powers that be a long long time ago.
Journalism itself has been destroyed and twisted by the ‘manufacturing of consent’. We get thrown the occasional treat to make us think they are still relevant, but for the most part they serve up more propoganda and diversions and rewriting of history than anything that could actually enable an informed and aware population that will make the demands of its leaders that we actually need….
https://www.pressgazette.co.uk/john-pilger-says-guardian-column-was-axed-in-purge-of-journalists-saying-what-the-paper-no-longer-says/
http://theduran.com/george-w-bush-stands-by-the-iraq-war-and-is-embraced-by-msm/
i dont blame them.
You don’t? Is some all-powerful force compelling the New York Times to write hundreds, thousands of speculative pieces about “Russian collusion”? Is Rachel Maddow being bullied and beaten every morning into composing her mad conspiracy theories?
https://theintercept.com/2017/04/12/msnbcs-rachel-maddow-sees-a-russia-connection-lurking-around-every-corner/
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/04/rachel-maddow-is-lost-in-her-cold-war-conspiracies.html
We’re not expecting another Edward R Murrow anytime soon.
??????
The United States has scores of dedicated, honest, courageous journalists, every one of whom makes Ed Murrow look like a second-rater. Glenn Greenwald, Jeremy Scahill, Laura Poitros, Aaron Maté, Juan Gonzalez, Amy Goodman, Allan Nairn, Ryan Gallagher, James Risen, Ryan Devereaux, Laura Feeney, Peter Maass, Murtaza Hussain, Paul Jay….
Ask yourself why we hardly ever see them on the networks or on CNN, but we see no end of the likes of Rachel Maddow and Eric Alterman.
I agree this is significant news, indicating an establishment divide between warmongers and peacemakers. Trump’s unilateral pull-out from both wars aligns him with the latter camp. They will respond by pretending it hasn’t happened!
“Arkin has worked for NBC on and off for three decades, sometimes as a military analyst, sometimes as a reporter and consultant. He describes himself as a scholar at heart, and he has authored numerous books about national security, most recently “Unmanned,” subtitled “drones, data, and the illusion of perfect warfare.”
“Friday will be his last day at NBC, according to his internal memo on Wednesday. It was shared with CNN by one of the recipients, and NBC confirmed its authenticity.
The network had no comment on his departure. Arkin is a sharp critic of what he calls “perpetual war” and the “creeping fascism of homeland security.”
An anti-fascist prominent member of the establishment resigning in disgust due to media bias against Trump is likely to produce cognitive dissonance in the minds of those who belief Trump is fascist. Therefore they will pretend this hasn’t happened.
You can say that again:
An anti-fascist prominent member of the establishment resigning in disgust due to media bias against Trump is likely to produce cognitive dissonance in the minds of those who belief Trump is fascist. Therefore they will pretend this hasn’t happened.
Glad to see you got the point! Oops, I failed to check my spelling (re those who believe).. 😎
I am putting link addresses re TS so here goes.
https://thestandard.org.nz/the-future-is/ 9/12/2018
https://thestandard.org.nz/how-to-get-there-16-12-18/
Okay – I was trying to look up archived Robert’s How to get there; under Environment – climate change and it has not go the two links and listings above in the column. Could they be added please so that it is a complete record from the beginning. Thanks to whoever looks after the housework!
To those who have been supportive and chatted about hip operations, my date for a full hip replacement operation is 18th Jan . Yay!! At last!! Thanks again. Just think, I might be able to be in the garden again, though kneeling and bending are out.
Raised garden beds with plank around for sitting on for you Patricia, and fold up stool for other garden locations. Your plants will love to see you around again.
Thanks greywarshark, I look forward to dead heading the rose bushes, and just being out there again. A walker rather limits access. We have done a deal of companion planting, and have our rampant successes, the chrysanthemums have needed thinning. We now have a plethora of small flowers atop bushes lol lol.
Awesome news, thrilled for you Patricia, good vibes for the 18th.
Thanks Cinny, your good wishes are appreciated.
Good news. You won’t know yourself.
So many things to look forward to.
Thrilled for you, patricia. I had to have my right one replaced over twelve years ago now, at a younger age than most. It was in a really bad way by the time the operation was done as it went bad very fast. But within about six months, I was back gardening including digging, mowing lawns etc Some simple rules apply like bending etc no more than 90 degrees. Once that is embedded in your thinking, it is amazing at how many different positions for sitting, kneeling etc you find that fit within that rule.
But what don’t they tell you about the after-effects?
The biggest and most long lasting effect I found was the inability to cut your own toenails!!! I still stuggle with this tiny little action.
So my advice to anyone who has a friend, family member etc having a hip replacement is forget the flowers – contributions to, vouchers etc for toe nail clipping, pedicures etc are much more practical and longer lasting. LOL.
Another practical gift is one of those long handled brush and pan kits – preferably a strongly made one with the biggest pan you can find, not the flimsy teeny ones with tiny pans. Forget using it for cleaning – its great for picking up dropped items like books etc by using the handle end of the brush to push the item into the pan, and then the long handle of the pan to raise it to a level to retrieve the item without bending. Also great for picking up and putting down pet food bowls etc using the same technique.
And also hope you have had safety bars installed in showers etc. And do the exercises after the op. These and the walking are essential to recovery.
So endeth the lecture for today! Kia kaha
Interesting. Where can you go to get toenails cut? Do GP practices do it?
I guess this is where people get into term difficulties. I have so this is what I found out.
Pedicure – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedicure
A pedicure is a cosmetic treatment of the feet and toenails, analogous to a manicure. Pedicures are done for cosmetic, therapeutic purposes. They are popular …
Pediatrician (or paediatrician – childrens doctor) – but one google advice tip advised a pediatrician for in-grown toenails, however podiatrist is correct.
Podiatrist
A podiatrist, also known as a podiatric physician or “foot and ankle surgeon”, is a medical professional devoted to the study and medical treatment of disorders of the foot, ankle and lower extremity.
Podiatrist – Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Podiatrist
When to See a Podiatrist If Your Feet Give You Grief. … On a daily basis, podiatrists treat a wide range of conditions including arthritis pain, bunions, calluses and corns, diabetes complications, ingrown toenails, sports injuries, and more. They are also trained to diagnose infections of the foot and toenails.Aug 22, 2018
When to See a Podiatrist If Your Feet Give You Grief – Verywell Health
https://www.verywellhealth.com/do-you-need-a-podiatrist-1337680
Although many people get confused in understanding the difference between a chiropodist and a podiatrist, to be honest there is no difference between the two. … Podiatrists and chiropodists can also treat and alleviate day-to-day foot problems such as fungal or ingrown toenails.Jul 22, 2015
What is Podiatry/Chiropody? – Spectrum Foot Clinics
http://www.spectrumfootclinics.ie/blog/whatispodiatry
(It is very strange that google won’t give me much information about chiropodists and instead inserts podiatrist information. There must be something written into the program that limits chiropody details and puts podiatry to the fore.)
Pedophile – (Not foot-oriented. Have read of a case of confusion with protests outside a children’s doctor clinic.)
Some GP practices have either nurses trained in this or trained people who visit the practice regularly to offer these and other similar services; or they have information about where these services can be accessed.
Some physiotherapy practices also offer such services. Also podiatry/chiropody practices obviously do this; and also day spas and similar beauty therapy businesses who offer pedicures etc.
“The biggest and most long lasting effect I found was the inability to cut your own toenails”.
Fascinating. I had both hips replaced and after I recovered, which took the best part of 6 months I was happy that I could now cut my toenails.
I hadn’t been able to do it for a couple of years before the op.
I guess it just affects people in different ways.
I think it is the relativity of arm length to body and leg length. My arms are short compared to the others!
Thank you so much… Norm has been instructed to find such a long handled “not flimsy” brush and shovel. xx He will probably use it as well. Luckily we do each others nails… a problem on your own, and a future need to consider.
Driving again!!… being able to climb stairs and visit again Yay!!
Here is a link to some of what is available in NZ.
https://www.google.com/search?q=long+handled+dustpan+and+brush+nz&rlz=1C1LDJZ_enNZ499&oq=long&aqs=chrome.2.69i59j69i57j69i59j69i65l3.4736j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Prices vary and some very expensive professional ones. From memory the ones I had were from Mitre 10 but haven’t seen those ones again. (had one at each end of the house.
But the Warehouse green Sabco one is similar from the picture. And two good reviews. The Mitre 10 Raven one is also one I would look at, and Bunnings seem to have a similar one.
The ones I had at the time of my op did not fold up (ie the pan part) and I would be careful with those in case they folded when you did not want them to. But I could be wrong.
I think I told you some months ago that I had my op under spinal and a little bit of sedation and not general anesthesia. Not everyone’s cup of tea but would trade again ++++ !!! Was up and out of bed and eating two hours after the op, dressed the next day and walking up and down stairs; and home less than three days later.
You have the right attitude, and will be fine.
Thank you so much. We won the cricket too!! Yes I have to get clearance from my Dr. to drive again after the op because this my “non polio” leg.
One of those sets looks similar to the one we had in our motor home. Two placed strategically sounds sensible. Thanks for your help and good wishes.
Forgot driving. I think you are not supposed to drive for six weeks (?) afterwards – could affect your insurance. May pay to check that. Because I am on my own I drove (whispers) 6 days after my op. (Ssssshhhh).
Yes Shhhhh!! Hope for the spinal. They will decide on the day because of my scoliosis. I’m hopeful.
You always do helpful informative write ups Cheers.
anyone hear read “Why Nations Fail” by Acemoglu and Robinson?
its my holiday reading.
I haven’t, but looks interesting. Their thesis is non-contraversial, and widely-known already, I suspect – but probably worth elaborating on:
“Acemoglu and Robinson’s major thesis is that economic prosperity depends above all on the inclusiveness of economic and political institutions. Institutions are “inclusive” when many people have a say in political decision-making, as opposed to cases where a small group of people control political institutions and are unwilling to change. They argue that a functioning democratic and pluralistic state guarantees the rule of law. The authors also argue that inclusive institutions promote economic prosperity because they provide an incentive structure that allows talents and creative ideas to be rewarded.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Why_Nations_Fail
This is a great video that is highlighting the housing building going on in Auckland that does not seem to show a shortage of houses or land.
What is also interesting is that Auckland council and Auckland Transport has learnt nothing, there are no cycle lanes on the housing estates and there is an air of1950’s style of living (aka 70 years out of date planning) with everyone getting out by car. Sadly with only 1 lane roads and no public transport around some of the new housing estates, not only will it be a nightmare living in many of these estates it will impact also ALL the traffic flows of the entire region!
There are also no parks or places for kids to play in many of them. It’s as bad as Albany but they at least the planners or developers learnt to put in the footpaths this time. Maybe in another 70 years Auckland council might work out that they need to plan for how thousands people get around when there is only 1 road in and out? Of Course the best and brightest will have left the country by then as the low wages, poorly thought out living and commute times will have repelled them away.
Why were the developers not expected to put in cycle lanes or parks with large developments?
These housing estates are a scam where a lot of the time the costs both financial and social will fall back on the ratepayers and existing residents of Auckland, and the existing issues of improving pollution and transport links to EXISTING housing estates should be the priority for ratepayers money, NOT making the existing problems worse and ratepayers money (and council debt) helping developers make more profits on speculative million dollar housing estates that increasingly workers can’t afford to rent or buy.
“Why were the developers not expected to put in cycle lanes or parks with large developments?”
Because the government they supported changed the regulations in their favour. The harm lasts decades. West Auckland suburb Massey is a classic example.
@ Sacha, That is completely true, but I don’t seem to remember a lot of dissent from the left, or Auckland council, during the unitary plan pointing this out, instead they concentrated like the Natz on denigrating ‘NIMBYISM’ as a reason to push it through.
Most of the poverty groups were so stupid they were largely in agreement with the Natz for the unitary plan , NOT against them just like the MSM and left blog sites. Never saw the Green Party protesting against the unity plan, nor Labour or anyone of significance pointing out the obvious flaws in the many media debates there were – nope it was build, build, build, and ignore everything else, and if you look at Kiwibuy it is the same concept.
The houses being built for Kiwibuy are not affordable for the bottom 35% and not helping the bottom 35% out, instead they are making it worse and they are taking away resources from existing ratepayers for transport opportunities and pollution upgrades for existing housing and workers needing it NOW.
The existing houses should have the priorities because they are the workers already needing the services and paying for them! Not have the money hijacked by developers and in particular developments pictured that are making it worse for everybody else aka the housing around Huapai.
Instead of blaming National and others they need to take a good hard look at their owned flawed policy on the subject.
In many cases there are already cheap options like the rail network at Kumeu. But there is no plan to open the trains there to the public because they can’t be bothered solving the issues.
Instead of solving the issues for that existing train track they are instead doing nothing in the short term and expecting those people to teleport to the train station in west Auckland being built in the next decade…. pathetic reasoning when there is already a train line close by from Helensville that used to operate.
That is why nobody trusts the council anymore or the transport agencies they are stupid and corrupt. The jailed ones are just the tip of the iceberg…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11805571
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/330853/jailed-fraudster-got-friend-job-at-transport-ministry
Council’s unitary plan does not override govt-level policy about developer contributions.
No point in activists lobbying councils over that or any other central govt policy. That’s the mistake the late Ms Bright made for so long.
So your point is that it is Auckland city councils fault? Makes sense to me!
If the developer paid the correct contributions for their developments why is there billions outstanding to be paid? Clearly someone can’t work out the numbers when they set the contributions, or the council has misspent the contributions.
Since apparently half of the rates going to council is spent on their own wages then something is clearly going wrong somewhere.
And clearly the developers are doing deals getting out of paying for the infrastructure…
BTW – Owners of 9,000 new homes north of Auckland will pay an “infrastructure fee” to advance the displacement of roads and water works in development.
https://tech2.org/aus/aucklands-new-development-will-include-39-infrastructure-payment-39-above-the-rates/
So the developers are passing the development costs to the new owners in effect putting up the price of houses and securing more risk for the ratepayers and future owners while making sure the big developers pay less and keep more profits…
Gosh I thought all that new housing was supposed to make housing more affordable not more expensive! sarcasm. Instead the new idea is to rip them off with 30 years of extra charges on top of their rates.
Still government has not worked out how much lost productivity there is by allowing so many extra housing estates to go ahead when it is already difficult to get around Auckland with the massive congestion and slow moving, expensive, unreliable and pathetic public transport and what is going to happen when working people refuse to live in the estates and Auckland is filled up with retiree’s and people who qualify for low income rates relief (on paper) or the developers start going bust or like leaky building, they need remedial work and nobody wants to live there.
“So your point is that it is Auckland city councils fault?”
How on earth do you get that?
“Owners of 9,000 new homes north of Auckland will pay an “infrastructure fee” to advance the displacement of roads and water works in development.”
That’s the new govt’s policy to fix the problem. But again you are mis-reading what it does. Maybe take a break and try again later with a cooler head.
The infrastructure that is being paid for is to get/receive or take stormwater, wastewater, power, gas roading to the development. Developers cannot construct infrastructure outside their land ownership, they pay contributions to enable this. Unfortunately Watercare, AC etc has no money to pay for this, but still receive infrastructure payments.
Watercare is spending up large to fix existing problems e.g sewage being pumped into our waterways/beaches. And to allow for intensified CBD with all these new apartments. Pity we load the sewage system now, and the fix will be effective in the future
https://www.watercare.co.nz/About-us/Projects-around-Auckland/Central-Interceptor
And to address the Auckland sprawl, how about keeping election promises regarding reducing immigration ?? 😤
Auckland is lovely, around every corner is a water view. The problem with so many water views is that building land is scarce. Strips of dirt between bodies of water.
Immigration or not, I think the best way to release steam from the Auckland pressure cooker is to enhance peoples’ desire to live elsewhere. I think loading up a politician’s pockets and sending them off to stimulate the provinces was a great idea…I’m a bit worried about the execution. Shane has enough money to make a difference. Enough to get a ‘C’mon over here man, I’m getting $900 a week’, grapevine buzzing.
Housing is as much of an issue as it is in Auckland in the provinces. But they’re there, they’re usually expensive by Whangarei/Napier/Kaikohe standards but bargains if in Aux.
I don’t think our government should be telling us where to live but they could be seeding some good reasons not to choose Auckland.
Edit fail
Aww…
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DwBfwjmUwAAJggC.jpg
Who would have thunk it.
Study finds that, Nazis make bad parents.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/harsh-nazi-parenting-guidelines-may-still-affect-german-children-of-today1/?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=daily-digest&utm_content=link&utm_term=2019-01-04_featured-this-week&spMailingID=58169682&spUserID=MzA0NTQ4NDI1MzE5S0&spJobID=1560514781&spReportId=MTU2MDUxNDc4MQS2
Jenny It wasn’t just Nazi’s who believed that either kibbutz’s the Church’s.
Interesting insight into the shenanagins not often seen in the Land of Smiles.
http://www.economist.com/asia/2019/01/05/as-the-army-and-politicians-bicker-thailands-king-amasses-more-power
Who owns the economist , Bruce?
Do you understand how the people of Thailand feel about their monarchy?
Are you trying to say, that the people of Thailand should be concerned about their monarchy?
What historical basis would you have for believing as such?
Do those you associate with there oppose the monarchy?
I’ve taken some liberties in reading through your intentions, by posting the economist link, and those links and comments previously made regarding Thailand…
Oh, and that propaganda site you linked to…the site that lists Thaksin Shinawatra as a political prisoner…openly berates the monarchy…referring to them as ‘useless’…among other things…
When +/- 95% of all Thais, regardless of their religion, politics or status…love their monarchy…
The Thai monarchy is not the parasite UK.or Euro monarchy, Bruce…
To help Bruce…
“Owner. Cadbury, Rothschild, Schroder, Layton and Agnelli families.”
They sound like a bunch of lefties!!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economist_Group
Thanks Ed…good to see you back
Bruce has been posting, what I initially thought was well meaning, yet misinformed comments and links about Thailand…
Bruce has indicated he may either live or frequently visit Thailand, or perhaps somewhere else in SE Asia…
Thing is, in recent times I’ve been responding to the postings Bruce has made, especially the previous link he posted last week and now this one…you can look it up…
I believe that Bruce means well…but he is clearly parroting the wests agenda against Thailand…
..so I have questioned him and called him out…
Let’s see what excuses and deflections he comes up with this week…
We have a few here who the post the neocon West’s agenda.
There appears a constant need to be providing pushback against lies about Syria, Ukraine, Libya and Venezuela as well.
At some stage sections of the ‘liberal’ left got captured by the Blairite/Clinton interventionist policies.
Yes, and those few are easy to spot.
Bruce, is not part of that group, so far as I can tell.
I still believe he is misinformed, however there are no excuses for remaining so…despite his statements last week around censorship…
There are also not many possibilities, why he would claim to be commenting in good faith from his experiences and contacts in Thailand, yet continually parrot a negative narrative about the Thai monarchy which is incorrect and untrue…
As I’ve said to Bruce…there are long standing and historical reasons why the Thai monarchy has close to 100% support of Thai people…it seems he is ignorant of the basic historical contexts…
If nations have a monarchy, then the Thai model would be a good example of how to actively contribute to nation building….
They have bee the opposite of the polarising Uk and Euro parastitical monarchy’s…
No again the propaganda got you , I was impressed to see how the last bit of toothpaste was squeezed from the tube, the suffiency economy ; but then wondered about the cost of handmaking the one of a kind special tube. His mothers house at Doi Tung however is a thing of beauty not one tree was cut to build and its lined with old packing crates and pallets, a beautiful garden where Arka once grew opium, and her book Busy Hands, is worth the read. I am quite a fan of the sister and shared the same aspiration of many that she would be the one to follow on.
Which propaganda, got me, in your opinion, Bruce ?
You understand why ‘the sister’ could not have ‘followed on’ from Rama 9 , right ?
So as to be clear, which sister are you referring to? (note, it does not impact the reason why ‘the sister’ could not ‘follow on’)
Do you know who the highest ‘titled’ member of the Thai monarchy is, Bruce ?
If you would like a hint, or some help…let me know…
If the neocon west is using this guy to further their agenda we got nothing to worry about. His interests are for one goal only. Just Google and get some background on the removal of the monument and 1932 plate, if your interests and where he wants to take us align I give up all hope.
For the planet’s sake his ideas are unique, otherwise buy shares in the knee pad factory because that what you’ll need .
Yes I do know how many of the people feel about the monarchy, it’s not at topic of open conversation but people are aware. You may feel the same warmth has passed from the old to the new but this is not the case.
People are not concerned they get on with life as they always have, the guys they pulled from the Mea Kong with bellies full of concrete had concerns by they have passed.
I feel you may be the victim of propaganda, the thing about finding out is to look at many sources,find the themes that concur and run with these.
I guess you stand with the watchman, he has no convictions, but the stories of bomb detectors, overpriced helicopters and submarines for a shallow gulf may explain the us million dollars of accesories on a $50,000 a year sallary.
Again I don’t think the general population knows it’s tax dollars are spent flying circles in the sky over Europe.
It’s just that from a position of white man privilege I believe all men are equal and deserve the same opportunities not to be considered as dust beneath ones feet.
Again if you want to get the kids opinion look for ‘rap against dictatorship’ on u tube. It has subtitles and Google some of the references may help to open your eyes.
Too see the hero in action try birthday party, the country and his previous position.
Bruce, as per my previous comments to you…I deliberately did not respond to your comment I read last week, because there were too many fallacies to address….
You may feel the same warmth has passed from the old to the new but this is not the case
No, I am acutely aware of what the prevailing concerns were towards Vajiralongkorn the son of Rama 9, and the angst which was felt as Rama 9 aged, knowing that his passing would come one day… But those concerns have been put aside in the last couple of years, as Thais have come to believe that Vajiralongkorn intends to follow where is father left off….as best as he can….
People are not concerned they get on with life as they always have, the guys they pulled from the Mea Kong with bellies full of concrete had concerns by they have passed
Yes they get on with life, as they always have and always will….Did you know ‘those guys in the river’ well, Bruce ?
I feel you may be the victim of propaganda,
Incorrect, projection…
the thing about finding out is to look at many sources,find the themes that concur and run with these.
Is that how ‘finding out’ is done, is it, Bruce ?
Last week you claimed to read various sources…but complained about censorship when I questioned the propaganda sites you have been linking to…
Which is it, Bruce ? Do read widely, or are you censored from reading sites that support your bias ? Can’t have it both ways, can you …..The comments and links you put up tell me that, not only is your reading scope narrow, but that you clearly have a bias which will prevent you from ‘finding out’ anything which does not fit your clear bias….
I guess you stand with the watchman, he has no convictions, but the stories of bomb detectors, overpriced helicopters and submarines for a shallow gulf may explain the us million dollars of accesories on a $50,000 a year sallary.
Again I don’t think the general population knows it’s tax dollars are spent flying circles in the sky over Europe.
Who is the watchman ? Is that a derogatory name you learned from elsewhere or did you come up with it yourself ?
Are you seriously pointing fingers, Bruce ? I’ve already highlighted to you what the politicians have done to Thailand leading to criminal convictions for fraud and corruption….now they live in exile….yes it goes back farther than that, but as you seem to have a short term, imbalanced view of the current government and soon to be Rama 10, I am keeping it to the last 20 years when talking about how ‘tax dollars’ are spent….
I stand with the people of Thailand….those who are not interested in taking the country back towards civil war….again…, and those who are not set on being the western paid for and sponsored actors…guests in sovereign nation…those convicted criminals whose sponsors are displeased that Thailand is turning away from ‘The West’….
It’s just that from a position of white man privilege I believe all men are equal and deserve the same opportunities not to be considered as dust beneath ones feet.
Leaving aside your issue of skin colour/ sex , I would agree with you on equality….perhaps if you understood some of the history of the Thai Monarchy going back many hundreds of years, to even before there was the Thai Monarchy, you might understand why your comments and links appear to me as propaganda…
Again if you want to get the kids opinion look for ‘rap against dictatorship’ on u tube. It has subtitles and Google some of the references may help to open your eyes.
Too see the hero in action try birthday party, the country and his previous position
No, thanks I do not want or need ‘the kids opinions’. I have access to serious historical information and teachings….
Your links have been uninformed and highly dubious, so I have no intention of searching anything you suggest…
If you are genuinely in support of ‘Thai people’ and Thailand, then you should uplift your level of understanding of Thai history and politics….
Currently your comments, links and perspective indicate you are severely lacking….and as such you are letting down the very people you claim to stand with!
Thanks for that, I come for a Mon festival the people before the Tai and have read a bit about what happened to them.
I will however stick with the kids, it is as they say their country and they are it’s future.
I struggle daily understanding Thai culture and politics, this morning , I took 3 dozen plastic bottled of water and 3 bottles of palm oil to a man in a robe who tied a piece of string on my wrist that will bring me good fortune, gives me much to think about. I guess I must bow to your superior wisdom and strive to better myself and achieve the level of understanding you have.
Understanding also comes, from what we do not know….and seeking to find methods which build on what we do know…and then continuing to be open to changing our views and opinions along the journey….
I am fortunate to have access to a Thai historical scholar, who is always pleased to share knowledge and wisdom…I, just like you, am a journeyman….
Why do you struggle with Thai culture, and what about that culture is it that perplexes you ?
The story you tell sounds like you might be against Thailand’s largest religion, as well as the current government, the military and the monarchy….
Was it a (genuine) monk ? If so, which temple/district were you at ?
You realise that the ‘offerings’ are shared with other people right ?
You understand that someone can walk into a temple to seek refuge and sustenance at any time, and quench their thirst from a bottle of water which you gave…
Give from the heart, Bruce…if you are confused about aspects of an ancient country, and its ancient peoples for which you are a guest, then just be pleased that you are able to be there….
I understand the giving and the sharing but in the background there is a greater concern and that is for the survival of the planet, I try to avoid using plastic and certainly do not partake willingly in palm oil.
In March the sun will disappear behind a haze that won’t clear till the rains come in June this worries me . I feel as a part of my purpose that I try to change this for all our sakes but as you point out it’s been this way for milenia and who am i to try to change it.
It is a conundrum, with hooks and traps…
We need to participate in this world, but that participation comes with multi tiered impacts…
Do what feels right, Bruce…do what you can, don’t carry guilt as it serves no purpose…
I see comments that climate change is the ‘biggest issue’ humanity faces…but I do not agree…
The ‘biggest issue’ IMO is the lies, deceit, misdirection and information black outs…every one of us is making decisions from varying degrees of inaccurate data….that is a root cause problem…at least in the so called developed nations populations who are paying any attention…
We are all living in a lie…
The planet will be ok, Bruce…it is part of a system which far exceeds the influence of our species…
You like George Carlin too , the planet will be ok is a great rant.
That comedy and comedians have become one of the final bastians for expression of ‘truth’, illustrates the depths of where the ‘lies’ have lead us to…
Carlins rants, are indeed…great.
George Carlin was a legend.
A brilliant political comedian with so much to say.
New Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib has the wingnuts a blather.
https://twitter.com/HannahAllam/status/1080841356698927104
Not so bright Lebanese “student” schooled by George Galloway
Oxford University’s reputation is steadily declining. The catastrophically hopeless ex-ACT leader Jamie (“Lock Up His Sister”) Whyte is or was on the faculty—teaching philosophy, for pity’s sake! And it’s full of dimwits like this foolish, ignorant kid….
Galloway is a genius.
I recommend you listen to his show every Saturday morning (Friday evening UK time). It is the ‘University of the airwaves.’
Some of his wisdom.
“Now it’s well known to regular listeners I’m a follower not of Marx not of Lenin, but of Aristotle.
Aristotle’s view that the richest should be no more than three times richer than the poorest for the perfect equilibrium in society is something I support..”
https://t.co/R9aTKXZmIP?amp=1
Jamie Whyte has offered many highly-objectionable philosophical viewpoints (eg, his view that external enforcement of safety in the workplace is unnecessary because unsafe workplaces would find it difficult to hire staff). And yet, given that range of genuinely objectionable views to choose from, you go with a cheap misrepresentation (a lie, to be blunt) about his unremarkable view that incest shouldn’t be a matter for the criminal justice system.
That was his problem. Most non-ACT voters—i.e., nearly everyone—thinks incest is beyond the realm of decency. Not Jamie Whyte, though. To add fuel to his self-immolation, he was dumb enough to defiantly insist he’d said nothing wrong. And then he backed down a bit….
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11210507
His ramblings about incest were probably the LEAST objectionable “plank” of his raft of lightly thought out policies.
In your linked article, Whyte says:
“I don’t think the state should intervene in consensual adult sex or marriage, but there are two very important elements here – consensual and adult”.
Can you outline for us what exactly is wrong with that statement?
Just the fact he was stupid enough to think he could say it. Of all the issues in the world he could have been focusing on—for instance, he could have stood up for Nicky Hager and John Stephenson, who were both being persecuted by Key and his cronies—he chose incest as his point of difference.
If there was a stupider leader of any party in this country in the last one hundred years, I’d be surprised.
Of all the issues in the world he could have been focusing on … he chose incest as his point of difference.
Focused on? Chose as his point of difference? Try paying attention to what you’re reading – journalists put a lot of effort into combing through Whyte’s previous writings for something that might wrong-foot him in an interview, and found that one. He didn’t “choose” to “focus” on it any more than Corbyn “chose” to “focus” on which cemeteries he’s attended in his lifetime.
There were plenty of issues where Whyte was not merely wrong-footed, but nonplussed and completely out of his depth. He was particularly ignorant about the Treaty of Waitangi, and disdainfully told one interviewer he had no knowledge or interest in New Zealand history.
And mentioning a serious, intelligent politician like Jeremy Corbyn in the same breath as Jamie Whyte is hardly appropriate.
Well, duh. I’m not disputing that Whyte held many objectionable opinions, just pointing out that there’s no need for you to lie about him.
I didn’t lie about him. He said those foolish things about incest.
I think you’re playing the man and not the ball Morrissey. This over vented misconception about Jamie being hunky dory with kiddie fiddling says more about you than him.
Play the ball man. Jamie figures we are all in control of our own destinies. As any of us that have played the game of life can attest, sometimes buses splinter legs….Jamie’s way encounters a bit of a problem.
Drop the pedo shite and pitch a decent argument Morrissey. You have a great mind wasted on windmill tilting.
Fair comment, David.
Climate crises and catastrophe is the most serious issue facing the world right now.
Each day I am making a recommendation which would radically change New Zealand’s approach. Yesterday I proposed all public transport free in February.
Idea 2.
Make the left lanes of all motorways and dual carriageways in New Zealand’s cities only available to public transport, starting in February.
Let’s apply pressure to our politicians to make these changes.
Let’s do this.
Let’s begin with the Auckland Harbour Bridge and extend the Busway from where it currently stops at Onewa Road right across the Bridge.
And make it fare free. People would abandon their cars in droves.
They would be crazy not to.
No traffic jams, no parking hassles and expense, no fiddling with change or tickets, riding across the bridge in comfort and looking at the fantastic view, (instead of the car in front’s bumper), tired of the view, hook onto the bus’s WiFi, read the news, send an email watch a funny video on You Tube. Step off the bus in Queen Street and straight into your office. Or if you work further afield, at the Britomart Station to continue your journey.
And did I say fare free. People love free stuff!
http://farefreenz.blogspot.com/
Apologies if a repost, but here’s an interesting read, one of the many political round-ups of 2018. Graham Adams writes:
Yeah, not sure why we are footing the lion’s share of the bill for this. I believe dairy and beef farmers should pay the consequences for their own poor attitude to animal tracing themselves. Massive corporate welfare – it stinks.
Wow! I did not know this. Why are we paying this clown $200K when he refuses to be accountable to the people paying him?
Yep. Jami-Lee Ross is a whistleblower, a guy who found himself on his Road to Damascus. But the media framed him as feral and rogue from the beginning instead. Adams suggests this is because they have so much to lose if the many other indiscretions around parliament were to be exposed. I tend to agree.
To be fair, he probably is highly accountable to his party, the CCP.
And his place on National’s list, according to Ross and Bridges, only cost the Chinese Communist Party $100,000.
M Bovis is primarily a disease of production and in my burg and surrounds, the thousands of families who depend on that production for their livelihoods will bear the brunt of the economic losses.
I lifted this from the Graham Adams piece Muttonbird linked to and particularly like his choice of wording, so apt, so cutting, so derisive, so true.
Guilty as charged. The charge?…abdication of responsibility.
“There’s been much talk of cracks and crackdowns after the Opal Tower fiasco forced Olympic Park residents of new apartments to spend Christmas in their cars. But what was really cracking from side-to-side was the smooth face of neoliberalism, revealing the ugly lie that good governance can be contracted out.”
https://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/art-and-design/opal-a-planning-failure-not-just-a-transport-card-20190103-p50pg1.html
You can fool all of the people some of the time….
Just been reading this morning Oz paper and the Opal Tower saga is slowly starting to be quite ugly for local and state governments. It sort of reminds me of when the “No Mates Party” relaxed the building standards in NZ during 90’s, which resulted the leaky buildings saga.
According to the ABC report this morning they found more cracks, which now is leading to further investigation.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-04/opal-tower-has-design-and-construction-issues-say-engineers/10685324
Say it ain’t so, Ann.
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1081225501069533184
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1081226593920581633
Ann Coulter, scourge of the rich!
????
Has there been some disastrous realignment of the planets or something?
Hacked, cask wine, or a piss poor attempt at sarcasm?.
I think she’s regularly drunk. She probably believes what she tweeted, in some part of her brain at least.
a stopped clock is correct twice a day.
True, Sabine, true.
It starts with Cortez talking about climate change. And how to beat it.
When the interviewer interrupts in a querulous rising tone and asks: “This would require, raising taxes?”
Cortez replies, “There is an element, where, yeah, people are going to have to pay their fair share……”
Cue, shock, horror.
But let’s put this in context with the crisis we are in.
In the war against fascism we had to draft capital as well as manpower. To fund this country’s war effort, taxes on the top earners in New Zealand went up to 90%.
And New Zealand was not the only country to do this. Japan’s very top tax rate was set at 90% for several decades after the war, to help pay for reconstruction of their war ravaged country.
Cortez must be of the same opinion as myself, that climate change is an existential threat, greater even than that posed by fascism, requiring a similar expenditure of national treasure, and national effort to beat it.
Uncomfortable as it may be to some people, Cortez is right, we will need to draft capital as well as labour if we are to win the fight against climate change.
The real shock horror, is that some people don’t think the effort is worth it.
THE TRUTH ABOUT TAXES: Here’s How High Today’s Rates Really Are
Business Insider
Coulter’s alright to look at, but a nutter. She supported Bush’s wars and then turn rounds and rips Trump up for air striking Syria.
All this korero over Andre looking to wInd folk up.
I have just plucked my copy of ‘Grasp the nettle’ by Peter Procter off the shelf for a re read. It’s a great read as an introduction to bio-dynamics.
A discipline that is part science, part esoteric.
Rather than frantically letting the GEnie out of the bottle, a generation after our competitors have, we should be pursuing an alternative.
Organic as a minimum, bio-dynamics ideally.
Leadership
If we don’t know about them we can’t fix or mitigate the effects of them.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/increase-number-contaminated-otago-sites
Did the article on the Otago lakes from a couple of days ago?
This one?
300 000 contaminated sites in the UK alone. Approx 1 million per acre to clean them up (not a good job, by any means).
The articles figures are of critical sites – fudged numbers. Dig deeper, most farms in the country approach a threshold for cadmium. We’re in it up to our necks.
Will someone pass on to somebody in America just how stupid their government processes are, when the only people hurting because of the bastards making bad and mad policy, are the workers, that get no say in government there, that don’t get to work because there is no pay for them?
We should thank our lucky stars for the Westminster system.
It seems to me the wrong people stop getting paid.
Why not the politicians.
Meanwhile top Trump official get a pay rise of $14.
OOPS $14,000!!!!
I’ve been thinking about the Nga Puhi Treaty settlement.
They are by far our largest Iwi and incorporate a number of sub-tribes. Just as the tradewinds blew Tasman and Cook into Northland, it is where our first people settled.
In my role as interested bystander, it seems to me that the major stumbling block between a settlement by March or continued negotiations is a sense of harmony, balance and respect between the many hapu that stand under the Nga Puhi flag.
I hope that 2019 will be the year that the many diverse yet connected cultures of the early Far North can embrace and say “Yes.” They could look to their youth and offer a bright 20/20 future
Far right aussies – what are they good for? Absolutely nothing – say it again!
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jan/05/far-right-and-anti-racism-groups-face-off-in-melbourne-flashpoint
We’re all just looking for an opportunity, a chance.
When opportunities and chances get shut down, we get angry and commit crime.
Given how long we’ve been at this civilisation gig, we perform like amateurs.
It would be nice to think that with all the shit we are facing as people and as a species that we could put the bullshit behind us and just get on with living. But that is not how standyup apes roll apparently.
Kia ora R&R Housing is out of reach for most Maori and this problem was /is quite pridictable unless we ban foreign buyer everyone except the ultra weathy will all become renters as the billionaire push the price of property out of reach for 99.0% of tangata. If we just lease land to them that will keep the balance as the leases will keep propterty in reach of tangata whenua . Ka kite ano P.S Let the wealthy come and stay but no land sales and no pouring money into political lobbying The captilaist system is all desined around prices incressing if prices don’t incress it colapses quite logical
Eco Maori video
The people of the world will have to keep heaps of pressure on Bolsonaro so he knows that we don’t think its ok to clear cut tropical forest in the year 2019 as we know now that will be burning the mokopunas future. He need,s the rest of the world to buy Brazil’s exports if he does start slash and burn we should stop investing in Brazil and stop buying there EXPORTS .
Why Brazil’s Jair Bolsonaro has environmentalists worried for the Amazon
(CNN)The Amazon rainforest is an ecological wonder. Its waterways and canopy provide a rich ecosystem for a 10th of all the world’s species and help regulate the temperature of the entire planet. But the election of far-right politician Jair Bolsonaro as Brazil’s new president has many worried about the forest’s future.
Most of the Amazon forest is in Brazil and 20% of it has been lost to deforestation since the 1970s, an area bigger than France.
When trees are cut down, the carbon stored inside them is released into the atmosphere. The remaining forest also absorbs less carbon dioxide. That means the health of the Amazon has a direct effect on global warming
The forest is being cut down to make way for activities like cattle ranching, soy bean farming, mining, hydropower dams and new highways.
Deforestation fell dramatically between 2004 and 2012, but in recent years it has been increasing, and the powerful agricultural lobby in the Brazilian congress is pushing for more development of the forest. It endorsed Bolsonaro during his election campaign
Ka kite ano links below
https://edition.cnn.com/2019/01/05/americas/bolsonaro-amazon-global-warming/index.html
This is the type of person we don’t want to push up the cost of living pushing property prices out of reach of Kiwis and lobbeing goverments to make laws to suit this 00.1% m8 . Kiwis will become tennents in there own country WTF.
That report from officials highlighted his connection to ministers, especially Key. Thiel wasn’t just giving a talk at Auckland University that June, he was “presenting at a conference in Auckland in July (along with the Prime Minister)”. Thiel didn’t just donate $1m to the Christchurch earthquake recovery, he made a donation “facilitated by Mark Weldon, chief executive of NZX, on behalf of the Prime Minister”. English confirmed a May 2010 meeting, but said no records of what was discussed existed. Official Information Act requests to the Prime Minister’s Office regarding the meeting with Key were not answered — but the then-Prime Minister told Parliament in 2013 he’d met Thiel on “a few occasions” and described the relationship as “cordial”Thiel came on heavy in the two years ahead of his audacious and ultimately successful bid for citizenship in 2011. He visited the country three times during the period in a whirlwind of lobbying, business deals and public relations.
He met no fewer than four senior members of the Cabinet — including the Prime Minister — to present his case for turbocharging New Zealand’s tech industry, arranged his first business investment (five years after first being granted an investment visa), started buying real estate, and gave his first and, so far, only interview with New Zealand media.
The formal part of his bold quest saw his lawyers Bell Gully travel from Auckland to Wellington in late 2010 to hand-deliver a letter from Thiel to the Minister of Internal Affairs with his truly exceptional request Ka kite ano links belowhttps://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ The 00.1 % DON’T get it the more money put in to poor peoples/countrys pocktets the more money they can make and the better the system is less money spent on health crime fighting a lot of positive from distrubuting OUR WORLDS MONEY EVENLY quite simple maths equation there . The big picture is the 00.1% don’t want the 99.9 % to become impowered as when they get court cheating the will get jail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKJSNUmUh40
Here is one way to solve 2 problems some plastic waste and new roads we have heaps of plastic waste and we need more roads
An Engineer Has Found a Way to Create Plastic Roads
And it will significantly decrease our dependence on fossil fuels.
Karla LantApril 26th 2017
Engineer Toby McCartney wants to use recycled plastic instead of oil to repair some of the world’s 40 million kilometers (24.8 million miles) of road. The idea would solve more than one problem: poor road quality, the continued use of fossil fuels, and the waste plastic epidemic. His Scottish start-up, plastic epidemic. His Scottish start-up, MacRebur, mixes waste plastic into asphalt to create roads that last longer and are less prone to getting potholes.
McCartney’s mix replaces most of the bitumen, a material extracted from oil, that is used as a binding agent in normal roads with plastic pellets. The pellets are made from waste that is destined for landfills, such as the polyethylene that is used in packaging. The plastic waste pellets are then mixed with the usual rocks and a small amount of bitumen at the asphalt plant. The process is exactly the same, no plants don’t need any new equipment.
McCartney has already persuaded two English councils to start using their local waste plastics to build their roads this way. He says these roads are cheaper to make and last longer than conventional roads, and if he’s right, he may be putting us on the road to a cleaner planet.
Ka kite ano links below
https://futurism.com/an-engineer-has-found-a-way-to-create-plastic-roads/
Kia ora Newshub everyone is massing at Tangaroa and the Awa its quite easy to get into trouble be careful tangata.
Space junk falling back to Papatuanuku is quite a sight that we will be hearing more about as some of the satellites come to there use by dates. Thats a cool new find Australian scientist have found a way to stop skin cancer in its tracks by gene therapy .
Antarctic exploring questions on antarctic has started a great race there by alot of Nations for resorces as well . I seen a enviromentaly freindly person talking about not wanting to give up his Chilain sea basfish and chips that is also antarctic tooth fish that is getting hammered by the worlds fishing nations they need to be protected. The Orange roughy fisheries only lasted 20 years than it collapse.
Thats cool wahine are getting support to get into the jim as its a man domanated seen all the support wahine get is a good thing with the way the world is at the minute.
I see Aquaman is breaking more records cool with so many Pacific Islanders in the Move & the Directed is Chinese they use a lot of CGI compter to make the move to cool. Ka kite ano